Rahimi, Harris & Grote Show - What’s the No. 1 priority now for the Bears after Drew Dalman's retirement? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: March 4, 2026

Leila Rahimi and Mark Grote opened their show by discussing what the Bears’ top priority should be this offseason following center Drew Dalman’s surprising retirement at 27 years old. After that, Hall of Fame offensive tackle Joe Thomas joined the show to react to Dalman’s decision to retire. Later, Rahimi and Grote explained how Dalman has meant so much to Bears quarterback Caleb Williams.

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Gay thanks, bye. Rahimi Harrison Grody, 10 to 2 on 1043, the score. Adam Schaefter is reporting. that Drew Dalman has informed the Bears that he is retiring at age 27. What? Dalman left Stanford in 2021 and after four seasons in Atlanta

and one in Chicago, he has made the sudden and surprising decision to retire. This is the worst. I cannot believe this and there must be some further explanation because, you know, I know about retiring early. We've seen so many NFL players do this,

but at the age of 27, this is a year? Can't be happening. Okay. Not totally, totally panicking here, but this is a huge concern for the bears. Everybody, stay calm. What's the procedure, everyone?

What's a procedure? Stay fucking up! Now, looking at the center position, and how many times have we said, you know what, isn't it good not to worry about center? It was me. I said it. I said I was really happy

that I didn't have to worry about the center and quarterback exchange. Ozzy is, obviously, he's not really Avengers, but Wolverine. I have Dr. Strain. as Left Guard with Joe. I have obviously Hulk as center.

I have the Red Hulk as Jonah. And then I have Darnell's Bucky because he has the one arm. I guess first and foremost, awesome guy, great teammate, great to have around, all those things. And then, you know, like all those curtilities as a player, like as an O-line, can't tell you the amount of times that he's helped us out when we've struggled or make huge plays for the team to keep us in games

or to win games. And so I don't think, I don't know what else you can ask for. My goodness. Lela Rahimi, Marshall Harris, Mark Grody, midday's 10 a.m. 2 on Chicago Sports Radio 1043, The Score. Hello and good Wednesday morning. This is Rahimi Harris and Grody on 1043 The Score. And for everybody who took pictures and video of Marshall and I, because we were playing some audio from the White Sox and Instagram video that they had, and then we got Ray in our

ear telling us about Drew Dalman retiring. Yeah, yeah, that look was genuine. We were shocked. It was sudden. And now we are trying to figure out what the Bears' newest priority is this offseason. Thanks for joining us here on 104.3, the score, Mark Grody in today with me. And Mark, I do want to get your reaction, just kind of picking up where we left off, because as the Bears reporter for our station, you had a lot of conversations with Drew Dalman. And He is a guy who I always found him really interesting. I feel like he had a lot to say whenever he did speak. And number one, you hope he's okay.

And then number two, you try to figure out why. And then number three, you also figure out what's next. Absolutely, all those things. And continuing on with the office theme, and I love anytime Tyler Buterbaugh, he's a real beaut, anytime he can put some office quotes into an open or, throughout the show. You know I love it. Do you remember when Toby, the human resources man who Michael Scott hates, that's the running bit. He leaves for a while. And then he comes to Costa Rica. He goes to Costa Rica. And Michael Scott thought he was never coming back. He does come back.

Michael Scott didn't believe it. And then when he saw him, he just goes, no, no, no. That was kind of my reaction when I heard that Drew Dalman was no more, that Drew Dalman had decided to retire at the age of 27. So you and Marshall were, and I saw the pictures, you guys, that was the exact appropriate response. No is the answer because right now, because we don't have an explanation about it, we all feel helpless right now. We want to get mad, we want to be sad, but we also want to know what's going on with the human being. So it's difficult for us to just be like, who do I get mad at? Who do I get? Who's response? I can't get mad at Ryan Poles for this because Ryan Poles probably did not see it. I'd like to think that Ryan Poles had no idea

this was going to happen until probably a couple of weeks ago. Same thing with Ben Johnson. Same thing with Dan Rocher. So right now, I feel a little bit helpless just like everybody else. As far as like my relationship with Drew Dalman, I'm not going to to overplay it. I probably had five or six or seven conversations with him throughout the year. I do remember when they rolled out Drew Dalman and a lot of their new players in a special day at Hallis Hall where the families come out. I do remember, like all these things start to resonate and you don't want to like overplay it. But I do remember how important family was to him. His wife was there and it was clear that they were very close. Like she was looking on adoringly

and all of that. So you, of course, of course, course my brain goes back to that very first day and knowing how important the family was. But there was not a single second in that locker room throughout the season during practice sessions at games where I thought, like, sensed anything about, and why would you? The man played 17 games this season for the Bears, took more snaps than anybody. That's what he does. He actually, the one who snaps the ball. As a matter of fact, all three of those offensive linemen on the interior played every single game. So that, That's another reason why I was like, no!

And I understood, no, I understood what Ben Johnson was saying, what he said, it's never going to be the same again. But this was not what I had anticipated. And my guess is that Ben Jansen had not anticipated that either. Well, that's it, is that we talked about this. And yeah, Brad Biggs alluded to it, too, that there was some scuttlebutt around the House of Bears around Hallis last week. But if that were the case, Tyler Bueberbaugh brought up. this up. Would Ben Johnson have been

at the Bulls game instead of at Offensive Leidman Day at the Combine in Indianapolis on Sunday? Joking around. Acting like he's taking his shirt off, the comedy tour. Probably not. And that's not really what's important, right? In the grand scheme of things.

We'll put it all together. We'll try to piece it together because you always want to know too. Retirement implies if you don't want to do something anymore when you're really good at it, you want to ask why. but there's also the truth of football in this. And you can make a lot of money playing it, but at what cost to your future,

at what cost to who you are as a person? And, you know, I love the, whenever we bring up the idea of the bears, especially this front office being like, we've got to get somebody who loves football. Max Crosby also told you in so many different terms. It's not about how he loves football. It's about how obsessed he is with doing his job

and doing it well. There's a bunch of different ways. You can be productive. You don't have to love the game. There's the person you are and there's the job you do. And salute to anybody who gets to separate those and have them be two very different things. Right. And for whatever it's worth, there was never a time where I sensed that Drew Dalman was not into what he did. As a matter of fact, one of the most pertinent conversations that I had with him with Drew Dalman was at the beginning of the when things were not going particularly well, if you remember. Remember, the bear is not able to get one yard on two straight downs on a third down and a fourth down. I think that happened multiple times where it was like, okay, now I got to go talk to Drew Dalman about this because there's some culpability there.

And I just remember him giving a very thorough, complicated answer about what was going on with the office. So in other words, I'm telling you that to tell you that this man cared a lot. and he acted like an offensive lineman. Most offensive linemen are pretty smart guys who are easy to talk to and care a lot. And Drew Dalman fell into that category. I don't think that anybody would disagree when you consider how many games he played. And that was such a level of calm that they brought. You know, that was so appreciated just how forever we'd had so many different combinations of offensive linemen every season.

The season before that had gotten up into the 20s. as far as the various combinations of linemen. So that's not starting, obviously. That's during games and what happens in a game, whatever. So to have that calm and to have that be reliable and to also just not have a question about his play, how many times did you ever question whether or not Drew Dalman was off on something? I think I can name three times the entire season.

When he was off on something? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there was some snap issues here. It wasn't perfect. For all of the Bears' cadence concerns that clearly were a problem the year before and additionally were a problem at the beginning of the season, I think Rudalman helped Caleb Williams with that immensely. Or they helped each other.

Football is a team sport. But either way, I credit him with a lot of what made the offensive process so smooth and productive. Right. I mean, you have to have a center who can identify what the defense is doing, what the linebackers are doing, at the line of scrimmage. I mean, that is essential competency, I would say, for any center, but it would appear that he did it particularly well,

which guys took a lot of heat off of Caleb Williams. Not that Caleb Williams can't identify things, but he, of course, to some degree, was completely dependent on Drew Dalman for that. And really, one of the hardest parts of this is, I mean, you could make the argument that through the years with all the issues the Bears' offensive line has had, the center position is, and I'm here to hear arguments, was the biggest of the bugaboo's.

When we think about when they signed, when polls got here, and I will say, when they signed Lucas Patrick, I'll raise my hand, I liked it. Like when they signed it, they sold me on it. Lucas Patrick, I'm just saying at the time, Lucas Patrick did not work out. Sam Mustifer was never intended to be a starting center in this league. The Bears knew that. Sam Mustifer knew that. Coleman Shelton, obviously, not bad, but it has been, and I can go on and on, that position has been a difficult one to fill for the Bears over the last five or six years. So it just felt so good having that adult as your center for the for at least one year. Well, and how about Coleman Shelton? I saw his name quite a bit during the playoff loss to the Rams. Yeah. Because he's the center for L.A. So Coleman Shelton, all's well that ends well.

it also goes back to my theory that there's no such thing as a left tackle store and when it is the price is monumental. These guys are, they'll always find jobs, you know. I was reading earlier this week about Larry Borum being a guy who could likely get a big payday just because of the lack of available offensive linemen. And he had started as a good amount of games in Miami. So I say all that to say like, there's the sadness knowing that that was a really solid Bears offensive line. the concern knowing that you might not get to see something like that again, especially when left tackle is such a question. The offensive line was so good.

You didn't worry about left tackle. Honestly, it was one of the number one reasons that I would push Ben. I've done this a lot on the podcast, on Take the North, pushing back gently on Ben Johnson when he has gone through this whole thing of, hey, man, we ain't the same anymore. One of the big reasons they were the same to me was because he, You could depend on the offensive line. You have the quarterback coming back.

You have the receivers coming back. You have the running backs coming back. But we all know that it started with the offensive line. And back to your point, too, about the tackles that you bring up Larry Borum. Like, you're going to get paid if you are a left tackle or a right tackle or starting caliber offensive linemen. It always amazes me, like when I hear people talk about Braction Jones and say, well, maybe the Bears will give him a one-year prove it. deal. He's going to get an offer from somebody else in the league that's not a one-year. See Charles Leno who around was not, and I was part of it. Charles Leno was not particularly

valued in this town as a left tackle. He was all every year. It was like, replace him, replace him, replace him, then he goes and gets his three-year deal. I promise you. He got paid to go to Washington. He did. Brackton Jones is going to get paid to, and Bracton Jones should go. He owes nothing to the Bears. No, and also, again, the market value of capable left tackle. You know, that's it. And unfortunately, that's when the domino effect occurs of how much this truly affects a bear's team who is over the salary cap. You know, that's the concern.

And for every, that was one of my first questions. And I hadn't had to research how retirement and salary cap works. We were getting the information real time. So because of that, we didn't get to like research in the quiet and like take notes and write stuff down. It's hard. A lot of people asking the question. So this is according to over the cap. Yes. The bears will place Dalman on the reserve slash retired list. Yes. So they will keep his rights in the event, Dalman comes out of retirement in the future. I would imagine this is a la Frank Ragnow last year. 30 franc. That's a pearl jam reference. Thank you. It's not offensive to Frank Ragnon.

Once that occurs, the bears will take on a $4 million dead cap money charge for the remaining portion of a $6 million signing bonus that they paid him in 2025. So that's big. And his $14 million cap charge will vanish. So there's an exchange there. Dahlman will forfeit his $9.5 million salary guarantee for the year. So the team will then save $10 million in cap room, but we'll have a gaping hole in the middle of the line.

Thanks for reminding us over the cap. I came here for cap news. The Bears will have the option to claw back $2 million in bonus money in 20. 26 and another 2 million in 27. Players forfeit signing bonus money when they walk away from a contract, though it is up to the team to enforce the

provisions in the contract and try to recover the money. The bears would not get salary cap relief for that the season as that would start to come next season. So that is why this gets real tough, real quick. You didn't have a lot of flexibility to work with previously?

Your GM told you he didn't want to do the whole kick the can down the road thing. Like they just did in Dallas, by the way. Adam Schaefter reported the Cowboys of Restructure the contracts of Dak Prescott and Tyler Smith creating $47 million in cap room per field Yates

in him. By the way, that still leaves 9 million that they're over the cap. 47 million they cleared up and they're still nine over. So Ryan Poles has talked about how he doesn't want to necessarily do the into perpetuity thing. So I take all of this into consideration

and understand this team has now some very large holes to fill and some very big needs when it comes to how they put this together for next year. Your top need right now? Center. The end. That's my number one now because of this. It's replacing Drew Dalman with somebody capable.

And yeah, the wish list, of course, is Tyler Linderbaum. But if he can't get to a $20 million agreement with the team who drafted him in Baltimore, what on earth is the deal he's going to come? command. Yeah, that seems outlandish, not something the bears will be able to do. But it's funny because the question was asked backstage in our pre-show meeting. I hesitated for a second on the question of what's the most important. Because I went through my mind, I'm like, a left tackle, a defensive end. But then I thought about everything and the importance, like really to narrow it down, to simplify it.

The importance of Drew Dalman to the man who wears number 18 for the Chicago Bears, that would be Caleb Williams. And there's myriad reasons why it's Drew Dalman, but that is number one with a bullet right there. That filling that center position was just huge this year. So, yeah, the Linderbaum thing seems like a dream will continue to bring up his name and the possibilities of it. But the Tyler Beattish, that sounds more plausible.

I know Connor McGovern's name has come up with the bills. And an old friend, too, that I mentioned as well that we all just sort of laughed at was James Daniels. James Daniels, who was only played, I don't believe he has been a center at all in the NFL. I believe it has been all guard, but he did play some center at Iowa. I remember when he came to the Bears, there was some question as a second round pick, by the way, whether or not he would play guard or center. He obviously played guard. I will say that when Ryan Poles was going through the rebuild, that was the one move to me that I was like, huh, really? Get rid of James Daniels? I didn't like it at the time. But I don't. For a guy like Nate Davis.

For a guy like Nate Davis. So I don't actually think that James Daniels is going to be your center. But I just thought it was interesting that his name came up. Well, and also, I know people have talked about Luke Newman. Newman. He didn't take a lot of snaps like in game scenarios. I understand. I understand. that most of his reps were in the offseason and during training camp to test versatility. So that's something that I think we try to figure out as well. But I don't know how you look at this and don't say this changes everything. It does. It does. Right. The chain reaction of all of this and being so locked in and with potentially getting Max Crosby, which we will talk about on this program later on in a couple of segments. And the left tackle

situation, what you could put into that. You're right. Everything has changed, and we're going to discuss it all day here on Rahimi Harrison Grody. We are. We are on 1043 The Score. That is Mark Grody. I'm Laila Rahimi. Thank you for joining us, both on 670 and 1043. Or maybe you're hanging out with us on

Twitch. Twitch.tv slash The Score Chicago. Our address did change. It is The Score Chicago. Our Twitch mob is up and chatting. They are emoting. We are also on YouTube. Shout out to our YouTube viewers at the Score Chicago. There as well. Ray Diaz, Tyler Bueberbaugh and Brandon Friar are our producers. Our video team is

Connor O'Donnell, Jacob Stutz, and Max Curtis. Cody Westerland helps us out as well. And we broadcast live through the score Hyundai Studios brought to you by your local Hyundai dealers. Coming up next, someone who can offer a lot of perspective, both from Drew Dalman's standpoint and then also the idea of being one of the best in the NFL at your position. Joe Thomas, the Brown offensive tackle for 10 years. The Hall of Famer joins us next. This is Rahimi Harrison Grotie on 104-3 The Score. It is Mark Grody and Layla Rahimi with you today. We're waiting for Joe Thomas in a conversation that I think not only he can give some real perspective on, but just understands how it sounds silly, but I think we forget how hard it is to play on the

offensive line. For all the study we do, for all we talk about it, just the day and day out, toll it takes on your body. When we talk about Drew Dalman retiring here on 104-3, the score, I think that that, I could hear about that every day and still not fully understand how the hits that you take, like being in a car crash multiple times a day, how that affects your body every day. Right. And it's the lines, like I was just thinking about that quote, too, that we all throw around it, but it's not like the safeties are having these car accidents on every single play.

It's not like the cornerbacks are having these accidents on every play. It's not the wide receivers. It's the damn linemen. It's the defensive line. It's the offensive line. So, yeah, I think everybody should, with a minimal education, you should understand why somebody would want to get out. But I do. I'd like to know, though, the specific still on what's going on with Drew Dalman.

Yeah, so we're awaiting Joe Thomas. so we hope to hear from him. And in the meantime, just reacting to the news. And I said that I think this is the bear's top priority this offseason now. That changes everything. You can't have a luxury trade concept for Max Crosby or something like that when you spent so much money on the line. You know, what is the bear's cap number now overall? We talked about the cap implications.

How does that affect what this year looks like for this team who was already over? How does that factor in? And now you have four safeties, too, that you need to sign. All four of your safeties came up in contract this year. Is Tremaine Edmunds a cap casualty? We think so. Okay, well, T.J. Edwards isn't healthy. Neither is Noah Sewell.

You need linebackers. So think about all the priorities you have to have. And still, to me, number one is still now center because of what we saw out of the offensive production and Caleb Williams' development last year. And just because of the Bears issues previous to having Drew Dahlman, it doesn't mean that the Bears can't get it right two years in a row. It doesn't mean that you can't bring in another competent center, you know, talking about Tyler Beattish or the dream it feels like now in Tyler Linderbaum. But it does mean that you're probably not going to be as good at that position.

and let's face it. Like with Drew Dolman, he built up to something. I said it in the first segment that it was not pretty early with any of those guys, quite frankly, on the interior. With Tooney, with Jonah Jack. I don't know. Actually, maybe Joe Tunney didn't not do anything wrong. I'd have to go back and look and I would acquiesce to those who really know offensive

line play. He was probably perfect. He's like that straight-A student. He does everything right. But it didn't look right early on with Drew Dalman. didn't look great with Jonah Jackson. They couldn't run block. The line couldn't run block for the first couple of games.

You couldn't get a yard. But that's what I mean. Like they like with everything on that team, they progressed and built something. Before our very eyes and it goes with so much about the 2025 bears that were they were at the beginning of the season evolved in so many ways and maybe more than any position it was on the offensive line. With the lack of sacks, there's what, 26 for Caleb Williams this year just off the top of my head is what sounds right to me right now. With the running game the way it was, top five in the league this year.

And those were things, especially the running game, which until after the by week heading into the Washington game, were not right early in the season. And that's the beauty of it. They were coached up. They got better. They built something. And it was at a maximum point after, of course, the Bears. lost in the final game of the season to the Rams.

But that's the part that's so disheartening. This group had chemistry. They built a chemistry together. And now we have to talk about a new offensive line, essentially. 24. 24. Sacks. He had more touchdowns than Sacks.

And what was the number last year? 68. 68 Sacks. So, of course, some of that goes to Caleb Williams' elite ability there. I said it again. People like it when I say elite. Elite ability to elude passers. pressures, but there was also the part where you had this lockdown interior of your

offensive line, and Drew Dalman might have been the biggest part of it. And that's how I felt. So I thought he was the most important addition that the team made from free agency because of the exchange between the quarterback and the center. Wasn't Diodangbo? Very funny. I wonder if we're picking on him too much. He's going to get healthy.

That Achilles is going to get healthy, and he's going to run from Hallis Hall to pass rush us. Hey, you know what? Again, I mean, if we're talking about the ability for the bears to improve like they did in so many areas this year, then, yeah, we should probably say, hey, Dennis Allen, it's not inconceivable that Dio Dangbo is better. There's a Mark Turner turns into something that Montez Sweat has 14 sacks next year. That's right. I just called it, 14 sacks this upcoming season. I think you wish cast a little bit. Really? Really? He had 10, but Jervon Dexter was the second was six. It felt like a grind to get the 10, too, didn't it? It did. Didn't it? Let's go to our score hotline.

He also joins us on Twitch. Twitch.tv. slash the score Chicago. The Hall of Famer, the 10-year offensive linemen for the Cleveland Browns, six-time first team, all-pro, 10-time Pro Bowl, part of the all-decade team. The accolades go on and on. Joe Thomas, thank you for joining us today. Hey, thanks for having me on, guys.

Well, thank you. And I think you're a person. person to talk to when it came to just this sudden announcement of the retirement of Drew Dalman. I said this just a couple of minutes ago to my co-host Mark, Joe, that for all the understanding of football we do, for all the research, I think until you've ever played NFL football as a lineman, we can't fully grasp even with description how hard it is on your body day in and day out. How would you do that for us if you could? It's a beating. I mean, I retired after 11 years. I didn't miss a single play until my 11th season, but that was all she wrote,

because by the time I'd finished 10 and a half years in the NFL, I was sliding down the stairs on my butt because I couldn't walk after games. My knees hurt so bad. They were so swollen. I was getting injections every week and getting my knee drained. It's a beating, even if you're not getting the big injuries, which I was able to avoid for 10 and a half years, and I didn't miss any time. You're still accumulating wear and tear and beatings on the body and the mind. And it beats you down. And really, like, mentally I was in probably a worse space than I was physically by the end of my career because dealing with all the rehab and the wondering if you're

going to be healthy enough to play on the weekend and trying to make up for lost practice time because you're injured, it wears on you because it's a stressful game as it is when you're a young player, not to mention when you get old and you're trying to deal with, can my body keep up with these young bucks? Oh, and by the way, I'm older and I'm dealing with some injuries. I'm dealing with some inadequacies because my body just isn't the way it used to be. So I totally understand it's hard for people to really wrap their minds around a guy who's so young in his 20s just signed with the Chicago Bears to retire. But everybody's body ages differently.

And it's hard to know what that beating was unless you're actually living inside of that person. So what is your first reaction then when you hear, you see. the news that Drew Dalman, as you just pointed out, 27. I mean, and you mentioned it. You play 10 plus years in this league. He's younger. Three years, $42 million. First reaction when you read that. I was surprised. I mean, it is very young, especially when you are just signing with a new team like he did last year with the Bears. You would expect that like if a guy's going to retire, you're going to hear some whispers about, you know, he's thinking about it. He's dealing well offseason surgeries and he's struggling to come back.

But really, it was all quiet on that front. I think it probably surprised the bears almost as much as anybody. So it was definitely a shock. And Joe, I think you were probably the last generation of kids who grew up playing football without the concussion settlement that had happened with the NFL. I think that had come out probably when you were actually in your NFL career at that point. And I do think there was a way. of parents, you know, who said they were going to do things differently when it came to having

their kids play like Pop Warner, for example, or playing high school football a little bit differently. I can understand why that would be top of mind for any NFL player, just the danger of what this game can do to your brain day in and day out, knowing that earlier in their career and having that understanding for so long. What do you think? Yeah, it's definitely something that guys think about. One of my good friends from Wisconsin, Chris Borland, he played one year, had an amazing season with the San Francisco 49ers as a linebacker, and he decided to walk away because he didn't feel like it was worth risking the health of his brain and possible long-term repercussions of the daily beatings that you take when you're a lineman, when you're a linebacker,

when you're one of those positions that as a requirement of your job, you are smashing your skull against another human being 60, 70 times during practice, not just on the games. And so it's something that you definitely consider. I think they've done a great job of making the game safer. But when you're thinking about the brain, you only get one of them. Last time I checked, they're not doing brain replacements. And I think that's something that people have to think about. And I think the reason you maybe see it a little bit more now with guys retiring early

versus we didn't see it as much a while ago is they're making a lot more money. So a guy like Doug or some of these other guys who retired early, in four or five years, they're making what NFL players 10, 15 years ago would have taken 20 years to make. So it's a little bit easier decision when you've already feel like you've got yourself set up for life. And at that point, you're just playing for the love of the game. I think that cost benefit analysis changes a little bit when you're not doing it because you have to pay those bills like guys that were playing 20, 30 years ago had to consider. And obviously, Joe, everybody cares about the person.

We're being careful to some degree, too, because we don't know the why here of Drew Dolman. I'm sure the bears know more than we know. But the other part is, is the reality the bears no longer have a Pro Bowl center who it sure looked to us like was hugely important to the bears this year. What kind of a loss is Drew Dalman from what you saw watching the bears? Well, I think it's a huge loss because Drew. Drew was the center of that offensive line.

And when you've got a young quarterback who's learning a new system like Caleb, who's coming into his own, had a really good year last season, like that is the guy you lean on. He is the translator between quarterback and the rest of the offensive linemen. And so that position is something that the quarterback leans on. And that's something that the guards and the tackles lean on because Drew is that guy who translates Chinese that maybe coming out of the quarterback's mouth to English, that the offensive linemen are speaking.

When that defense moves and they ship from a four down to a three down, they drive safeties down, they rock safeties back, they change where those linebackers are. There's constant communication that has to happen. And it has to happen in a split second. And so for Drew at center, he needs to know what Caleb is thinking. He's in every single meeting with the quarterbacks. When they're talking about protections, they have their own meetings a couple times a week,

so that they can get on the same page because a lot of times your quarterback is looking at the secondary. And he's looking at the coverage. And it's the center that's looking at the protection. And so at some point during the play, the quarterback's not looking at that protection anymore. And he's trusting the center to be able to make any adjustments or changes to protect him and his well-being and safety. And so that trust is not something that you just sign up for. That's something that's built during training camp.

It's built during the battles that you go through on Sundays. And it's not a position that's easy to replace. It's one of those positions. If you don't know anything about it, it's a lot of those positions. It's usually a good thing. If you start hearing about it, you know there's a problem. And that is something that only time can fix when you're talking about that quarterback center relationship.

Oh, that's so true. We are talking to the Hall of Famer Joe Thomas here in Rahimi Harrison Grotie, the All-Pro, many-time All-Pro, all-decade, Brown's offensive tackle for many years. And he joins us on Twitch, twitch.tv slash the score Chicago from your shop where I see you have like a million point antlers behind you, by the way. That's some nice work out of you. So that's a treat for everybody watching on Twitch. And I also want to ask you this, Joe, having done this for as long as you have, having been

an analyst of the game the way you are, oh, we get the, oh, my goodness, look at the multi-point box over there. Okay. So as we admire the taxidermy of Joe Thomas's shop. Yeah. Absolutely. So I do want to ask you this, because you are somebody who I think brought a lot of like modern stats to the conversation when it came to how to measure, you know,

offensive line efficiency and things like that. If you were a general manager and you were looking for a center, what would be the qualities you would look for first? I think the first quality you got to have in any center is they got to be really smart. Because as I mentioned before, they need to be the guy that translates and that the quarterback trusts. He is the voice for the offensive line. He's the guy that makes sure everybody's on the same page.

And it's something that's not the hardest responsibility of an offensive lineman, but it might be the most important. And so you got to find somebody who's very smart, especially running a complex system like the Bears do. They're going to be changing not only protections before the snap comes, but a lot of run blocking assignments because they're running pinpole. If they're running some of the outside zone concepts, play actions, they have to count for nine guys out there, right? If a safety comes down to the strong side, now they have to count him and to be able to have a blocker for that player. And so those are all things that are really challenging.

They have to happen very quickly. And that's the first thing that I want out of any of my centers. And then the second thing is I need to have a good athlete. A guy that can get out and run. He can reach a nose guard if they're running zones. You can get out and pull if they're run pinpoles and crack G type concepts.

He's got to be able to run. You get a lot of help when you're in the center, which is the nice thing because you've got a guard on either side of you. So in pass protection, you're rarely in a one-on-one matchup. But you need to be able to run. You need to be able to find linebackers and safeties in space and block them,

especially in the Bears system, which is always going to rely heavily on a really, really strong ground game. All of that said about the center, Joe, you may or may not know the Bears do have an opening at left tackle right now as well. Which position center or left tackle for the Bears and Caleb Williams is more important right now,

more resources should be used at? I would say you're going to want to use. more resources on tackle because it requires a lot more draft capital or dollars in the salary cap to pay a quality tackle. And if you can't block the edges in pass protection, it doesn't matter if you've got all the guys assigned to the right protection. You're not going to be able to be very efficient and very effective protecting for your quarterback. So tackle is still the hardest thing to get and it's still something you want to spend your most money on. Says the tackle, a likely story. Joe, thank you so much for joining us.

And you can check out Hall of Fame Beef by Joe Thomas. Yeah. And this is a pretty impressive list of what you got here, Joe. 100% full-blood Wagyu, F1 American Wagyu, and Premium Angus Beef proudly raised in Wisconsin's Driftless Region by Pro Football Hall of Fame or Joe Thomas. You can visit Hall of Famebeef.com. Joe, I have to admit, I didn't know about the Driftless Region of Wisconsin.

You should come visit. It's beautiful. It's not quite like the Rocky Mountains, but it's absolutely gorgeous. The last glacier period didn't come through here. So we got amazing trout streams. We got unbelievable wildlife. We got beautiful bluffs and hills. It's a great place to vacation. That's why I first got here. And then it's also a great place to raise some of the healthiest, highest quality beef on planet Earth. You mentioned the Wagyu. We're selling all those steaks, all those cuts, beef jerky, Hall of Fame beef sticks, summer sausage, hot dogs, cheddar worst. Bratz, you name it, anything a beef cow has. We can provide it at Hall of Famebeef.com. Cheddar worst. Fantastic. That sounds good, man. Cheddar worst is off the chain. My kids won't even look at a regular hot dog anymore.

And I've got something else to do, which is check that out. Joe, this has been a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much for joining us. Hey, thanks for having me on guys. Anytime. Thanks, Joe. That's Joe Thomas, Hall of Famebeef.com for all of that. And I learned a geography lesson today.

I've been meeting to ski in Wisconsin. I was a stupid head and started skiing in Colorado and Nevada first. Same. To this day, I don't think I could ski because I started. I went from Colorado to Utah, which is another. Utah is tricky. The snow can get icy. We got to go up to this driftless region.

There's no drifts. No drifts whatsoever. We got to check it out. What does that mean? Driftless region. That's the thing. That's why I want to look this up. Okay.

Curiosity is good. All right. Thanks again to Joe Thomas for joining us. We're going to do more on just, I think, listening to what he had to say and kind of absorbing that. So we'll do that together as a team with you next. Rahimi Harris and Grody, midday's 10 to 2 on 1043, The Score. This is Rahimi Harrison Grotie on 1043 The Score.

And once again, we thank Joe Thomas for just a really interesting interview, offering a lot of perspective and knowledge when it came to the toll it takes on the body to play on the offensive line day in and day out, which I think we can never describe enough. and then also just what he would want in the center if he were the GM for the Bears. Like if he were Ryan Poles, what would he be looking for? And the athleticism was something that I think was a really compelling comment, Mark. Oh, yeah, athleticism.

And I don't know. Joe was talking about how like the identifying things along the line, identifying formations on the defense. He says that's not that difficult to do. but we've seen centers here in the past who were not as adept at doing that as Drew Dolman was so honestly and I don't know if we'll ever know how much exactly like to quantify how much Drew Dalman meant to Caleb Williams and take because we know that that Caleb Williams especially early on in this season needed things simplified he needed some things

taken off of his plate before he could put that stuff back on, even though they put everything on his plate during training camp. But as the season went on, we saw Caleb get more autonomy and be responsible for more. And I think some of that was because of the aid that he had, and not just from Drew Dolman, but he obviously was a big part of it. So all the smarts that went in, that is Drew Dolman, I think was extremely helpful to Caleb Williams this year. Oh, I completely agree. And we've gotten some really good texts about this, you can always text us at 312, 644, 67, 67. You can call us to, this from 815. We tend to forget the pre-NFL league beatings. I play tackle ball from six years old to 20 years old, and I've had

over 10 concussions, a broken clavicle, broken fib, fib, fibula, sprained ankles and wrists. I feel aches and pains all over. My memory isn't what I imagine it should be. I feel for NFL players. Every play is a bullet and you're using so many bullets from early ages to even get to the pros. And I think that that's very valid perspective. Now, I've had high school kids tell me that they've had concussions and they came back because they didn't necessarily know what it was. They didn't even know they needed to say something. It's been a long time. I think the research and the reporting has gotten better. But the toll it takes on the body is massive. Yeah. I mean, no doubt. I mean, I don't think, again, anybody who has read anything about the brain and concussions in the NFL, one should

if this is what's going on with Drew Dalman, because we're all assuming. We don't know that. It seems like the most logical thing to think that he is protecting himself from injury, or there was an injury that occurred or something that didn't feel right. Maybe he wasn't remembering things. I mean, who knows? We could all speculate on that. but that's that's the scary part that's the part that we understand but but he has left just a huge

hole here with the bears yeah and his health does come first people's health comes first joe also made an excellent point about the money you know joe thomas how much would he have gotten paid now that the salary cap is over 300 million dollars how much money would he have gotten a year if his if his NFL career were just 10 years not even 10 like seven years later. Just slide the entire set of years later. How much more money would he have made? Yeah, I think he did pretty well, but you're right. He could have gotten the real bundle. Oh, yeah, that's, yes. The real bundle is a secret cables package that you have to ask your cable provider for. You want the real bundle, man. You know who gets you that? Dan Wheater, he's a man and get you things.

The weed man, he can get you that. He'll bundle you up. He'll take care of you. You're just needling him now. I know. I know. Do you miss him? Is that what's happening? Well, you know, I don't know if I miss him. I like him. And we'll be doing a take the North today, all in the name of Drew Dalman. Emergency pod? Kind of. Yeah. Yeah. So we waited a little while to do it to try to get more information. But it's funny. The information has been slow on this. And it's pretty rare when nobody really knew. what the heck was going on like in terms of like that this was going to happen except for probably the bears

the bears probably knew before all of us that it didn't leak though is pretty amazing well and again if we're trying to figure out a timeline on this and Ben Johnson is at the Bulls game I'm not saying Ben Johnson doesn't take his job seriously I'm saying that he if this were known on Sunday

wouldn't he have been to the offensive lineman day at the combine yeah it would it would make sense unless polls was like, we got this, we've got our scouts here. See, that's the whole part too. I believe that. There should be

some delegation. There should be and that's another, this is another whole topic. But I understand that Ben Johnson probably has more influence on this general manager than predecessors or any Bears head coaches. Like I could think of like Dave Wonstead. Like that's the last time I

remember a coach really having some say in personnel. when he was here. I'm sure Ben Johnson does, but it's not like Ben Johnson is out scouting and like pouring through stuff and doing what the scouts do and what Ryan Poles does.

So in other words, Ryan Poles still is largely responsible for at least bringing a package of players to the coach. I think it's a little bit overstated when we talk about Ben Johnson's job in the draft, even if he does have more power than his predecessors. Yeah, I agree with that, actually. I think there are times where people think he's GM coach Bill Belichick and all the rest.

It was hilarious. I don't get that impression. Like, Colston Loveland is one thing. But when you look at the rest of that draft, that's a Ryan Poles staff type of draft. Right. He's not out there looking at Luther Burden throughout the season or Ozzy. You think he's like checking out Boston College and Ozzy Tripillo? You think you knew anything about Ruben Hippolyte?

throughout the season. So yeah, Ryan Poles can bring him the package of players and maybe he has like a big say in who they actually take, but he's not scouting like people might think he is. Here's some news. This is from Adam Schaefter. Oh? Yeah. Oh. Oh, man. Okay, so the Chiefs and Rams are working on a blockbuster trade that would send all pro cornerback Trent McDuffie to Los Angeles for a package that would include the 29th overall pick in the first round of the 2026 NFL draft.

And when he says Los Angeles, he means Rams. So the Rams receive McDuffie. The Chiefs will receive a first round pick number 29, fifth round pick, sixth round pick, and then a third in 2027. For a top corner. Man. Boy, I wonder if there's somebody we could talk to about that who covers the National Football League. Is there?

Why, yes, we can. If his name is Mike Florio and he is of Pro Football Talk, he will join us next.