Rates & Barrels - A Wild Weekend in the LCS Matchups

Episode Date: October 18, 2021

Eno, Britt & DVR discuss a busy weekend in the LCS round including Atlanta's 2-0 lead over the Dodgers, a Red Sox-Astros series knotted up at one game apiece, and the mounting pitching injuries for Houston.  Follow Eno on Twitter: @enosarris Follow Britt on Twitter: @Britt_Ghiroli Follow DVR on Twitter: @DerekVanRiper e-mail: [e-mail] Watch the show *Live* on weekdays at 11:30a ET/8:30a PT on YouTube and subscribe to the Rates & Barrels YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/RatesBarrels Subscribe to The Athletic at 50% off for the first year: theathletic.com/ratesandbarrels Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to Rates and Barrels, presented by Topps. Check out Topps Project 70, celebrating 70 years of Topps baseball cards. Derek Van Ryper, Eno Saris, Britt Giroli here with you on this Monday. It's Monday, October 18th. The LCS series are in full swing. We have a ton to talk about, so we're going to get right to it. Let's start with the NLCS, since that's more fresh in our minds. Atlanta coming away with a Game 2 victory over the Dodgers,

taking a 2-0 series lead. Where is this coming from? How is this happening? A lot to unpack here, of course. I was wondering if part of the cost of using Max Scherzer to get the save in Game 5 of the NLDS was not getting him to pitch quite as deep into Game 2 of the NLCS as you might have liked. But seeing how the game actually played out, I don't think that really dictated much about the outcome, even though they

clearly did get him out of that game earlier than they ordinarily would. Tactically speaking, probably some other things with the Dodgers pitching management that we're going to get into. What was your takeaway seeing how this played out with Scherzer in game two? I hate to

paint a narrative, a story to like sort of paint a narrative like a story and a and a series and you know paint a narrative that's larger than just what happened in that game but it is our job first of all and second of all i mean i do think this is the chickens coming home to roost a little bit on the modern day playoff pitching plans. You know what I mean? Like what we saw, you couldn't actually probably have thrown Max longer. People were like, well, you didn't have to take him out so early. He was already down in below. Like he was in the 92s on his fastball in the fifth.

So that was a consequence of using him as a closer. And then because you did that, I think there was no way to avoid using Julio Urias, who was also, he wasn't as down as Max, but he basically peaked at his seasonal average. So it wasn't like, it wasn't even a typical Urias fastball that inning. So both of those decisions come from the fact

that you have decided that you're going to use guys on throw days and you're going to power through that inning. So both of those decisions come from the fact that you have decided that you're going to use guys on throw days and you're going to power through that way. So some consequences for those decisions. Yeah. I mean, the Nationals, you employed the strategy in 2019. The difference to me is that they didn't empty their bullpen in a game five to a scenario like the Dodgers did. I think they're still paying for winning that game five over the giants and having to use the guys they had to use, you know, and if they don't win that game on quite a controversial way to win that

game. But if they don't win that game, I know that they're not here. I get that. It just seems like all these guys are exhausted from that. And the Braves are capitalizing. Like the Dodgers pitching, like Max Scherzer said yesterday, I had nothing left. He never will admit stuff like that.

Like I had nothing left. My arm was dead. I couldn't go anymore. Usually you got to fight that guy to take the ball from him in the middle of a start. That kind of tells you where he's at and perhaps where a good chunk of the Dodgers pitching staff is at at this point in time, honestly. Yeah. he's at and perhaps where a good chunk of the Dodgers pitching staff is at at this point in time, honestly. Yeah, I mean, getting Urias in on his throw day, he ended up giving up a huge hit in this game. I mean, it's one of those things where you wonder now how that impacts him for his next start later on in the series. I think I'd be game four if I'm doing the counting correctly in my head. So there is sort of this sort of trickle down or cumulative effect that happens

when you start using pitchers the way some of these teams are doing it. We're seeing something a bit different in the ALCS. Injuries can be a wrench in these plans as well. But I thought the big decision that I didn't agree with, and I don't know if it was an obvious they should have done it differently sort of thing, but again, based on process, not on result. Broussard-Graderol coming out of the game for Kenley Jansen, it's another righty. You get Graderol up there throwing 101 with movement. He's sawing everybody off. I know they got a runner on base against him, but I kind of thought they should save Jansen until the next inning and just let Graderol try and finish out the ninth inning.

Do you agree that Dave Roberts made the right decision by going to Jansen, or would you have left Gratterall in there to try and finish that inning out? I think it's hilarious that we're thinking that Dave Roberts is making any call. There was this scathing article in the LA Times today that basically just crushed Andrew Friedman and Dodgers management for trying to be too smart. It was dead on, in my opinion, you know, pulling these strings. It did not once mention Dave Roberts, which should sort of tell you that the way this organization works, the way things are scripted, the way the Dodgers have

tried to get kind of too cute, has really not been Dave Roberts. I think it has been Andrew Friedman and the Dodgers front office. That's really who we should be pointing fingers at and asking, why are they doing these moves? Why did they need to use the openergers front office. That's really who we should be pointing fingers at and asking, why are they doing these moves? Why did they need to use the opener? Why did that's why they had the bullpen game. Why are we taking guys out of their roles? To me,

it's not fair to put this on Dave Roberts. This is very clearly not Dave Roberts. This is like, you know, said modern analytics and perhaps too much, right? Have we gone too far here now? Because the Dodgers look exhausted. Imagine if they get through this, getting to like a seven-game World Series.

They just look exhausted. Yeah. You know, I also want to push back. Some people are like, well, you know, Cora gets to, you know, choose what he wants to do. He's not hamstringed by his office, the same way Kevin Cash is. And then when I wrote about the, um, uh, Blake Snell decision last year, uh, uh, Tampa pushed back really hard, uh, saying that Kevin Cash gets to make his own decisions. So I actually think that the amount of control that the front office

has over the manager, um, is something that's really hard to know. And, and also is not necessarily just cut and dry, like more, more autonomy for the managers better, like the Dodgers won it all last year. I mean, like, that's pretty hard to argue against. But I think that to some degree, front offices are participating in the decision making, and maybe driving it but you know we just don't know what exactly what that degree is uh in every in every in every dugout um i was surprised to learn that the giants uh were giving lineups to bruce bocce in 2010 so my general thought is that front offices had long had more control over decision-making on the field than people think.

I mean, I know it was the movie and it's not all real, but in Moneyball, it was clear that it was not how completely making all the decisions on the lineup card each and every day. He thought he should have been and he wasn't. So, yeah, this could go back 20 years in some organizations at this point. I'm trying to decide if it, I don't know if it's too cute or if it's just like, if there are consequences to managing your pitching this way that we just hadn't thought about before, which, you know, that's not, it's not totally abnormal, right? You try something different. It looks like it makes sense on, and maybe it still does mathematically make sense, but you just didn't realize, oh yeah, the secondary effect of this is

now we've got less velo here from this starter, and then that makes the starter less effective, and then because that happens, now we're in our B bullpen later on, but everything is kind of front-loaded to, hey, we've got to survive today. We have to win game 5 of the NLDS to even get to the NLCS. If we don't do things this way to win this game, we don't optimize to win game five, the NLCS doesn't happen for us. So I think there is some kind of balance there.

I would love to know in each organization, how much autonomy does any particular manager have at this point? I think a lot of managers are on the same page with the front office. That's why they're the manager of their respective teams because if they weren't, we have a Mike Schilt situation. Bizarrely enough, Mike Schilt linked to the Padres. Britt aired his laundry, man.

Basically saying he's not running the lineups we put out there or something. That's what I read between the lines. He's like, he's not following the script we give him. Also, John Baziliak has a really bad reputation. People have really struggled to we give him. But also, John Baziliak has a really bad reputation. People have really struggled to work for him. So I think that's

important to mention here, too. And also, what kind of world is this today where a manager can say, I use the numbers, but they can't be the be-all and end-all, and that's the reason why he loses his job? Because they fundamentally don't agree because Schilt still is going to make decisions on the field.

To me, that kind of has to be the case. You know, that to me is just sort of unfortunate. And I don't want to sit here and talk about how the Dodgers lost two games and paint it that way because let's give the Braves a little credit. The Braves won two games. They've had two walk-off wins, and they did it in that first game against Blake Trinan. They got to Blake Trinan, which to me gives you confidence. It lets you know the next time that

guy's in that game, he's going to be thinking about it. They're going to be thinking about it. They've had some really, really big hits. Obviously, Austin Riley, just up and down that lineup, being able to keep pressure on the Dodgers and to be able to go to LA knowing you're up 2-0. I think we need to give the Braves a little credit here too. Maybe they aren't as talented as the Dodgers, but they're playing better. So at what point do we give the credit to Atlanta who went through Milwaukee as an underdog and it's certainly an underdog here and their bullpen has been

better than expected. Their pitching has been really good. I think we have to kind of give props to the Braves here because to me, they've done exactly what they should have done these first two games. They've put pressure on a very tired Dodgers pitching staff and they've gotten the key hits when necessary. And I think they also managed to escape a situation in game two. Ian Anderson only went three innings.

I thought the biggest weakness for Atlanta coming into the playoffs would be the B relievers. So throwing your B relievers out there against the Dodgers in the game where you were down to nothing in the first inning, that seemed like a recipe for disaster. And that unit also came through. I think that was one of the bigger surprises for me so far in this series. Yeah, one of the things that comes to mind is that concept of lineup diversity, which I haven't really seen nailed down. But when I look at this Braves lineup, it's not they do strike out too much as a whole. But it doesn't mean that every single one of them strikes out a ton, you know. So seeing like Eddie Rosario and Ozzie Albies come up with big hits doesn't really surprise me.

But it does require some guys getting on in front of them for them to turn into wins. You know you can't just have two hot guys, but if you have two hot guys that can make contact really well and are maybe a little bit free swinger, but are willing to maybe go outside the zone or ready are ready to attack in any moment, then maybe having a couple of guys that get on in front of them.

And then you have the more free swingers kind of drive them in to win the games. I mean, that's sort of been what's happened. And one thing that I saw when I look at Eddie Rosario's page is he's been traditionally much worse against the foreseeing fastball and the cutter than he is against the sinker. The sinker is his best pitch. Now, I doubt that the Dodgers said, oh, look at Fangry's pitch type values. Eddie Rosario is really good against the sinker is his best pitch. Now, I doubt that the Dodgers said, oh, look at Fangry's pitch type values. Eddie Rosario is really good against a sinker. However, I do know that the really out

there teams, the really forefront teams are modeling swing types and swing pathways and modeling those against pitch types. And so it may actually just line up that Eddie Rosario has a swing that's very good against sinkers. But weigh that your decision with the fact that bruce dark raterall sinker is 100 miles an hour and eddie rosario might be teeing off on 92 mile an hour sinkers you know so uh you know i it may be it may be too smart you know like it may be too smart. You know, like it may be too smart. Maybe sometimes, you know, maybe sometimes it makes sense to just go with the guy throwing 100. I mean, you'd think that they would have just done that.

Too smart, too cute, whatever you want to call it. I don't know. I think I'm more on Britt's latter point that this is just Atlanta coming through and playing well and holding their own in a spot where a lot of people didn't think that they could. Now, going on the road will be a different story.

Momentum, I think it's a thing. Maybe it's on the margins, but it's a thing nonetheless. I got a note here from Charles. You should be popular on Brave's Twitter today with all the Waffle House discussion. I haven't seen what that's about. I had maybe four Christmas dinners at Waffle House.

Interesting. Good to know. Did you have a go-to order? Good to know. Well, it was kind of depressing, but a lot of times we'd be coming to or from Jamaica because we spent a lot of time there. So sometimes we'd come back from Jamaica,

my mom would go, oh, we have no food in the house, and it's Christmas. Nothing's up. So that happened enough that I was like, back at the Waffle House for Christmas, mom. This is amazing. Nice, nice, nice.

Yeah, the Burbs. And we haven't really mentioned that Freddie Freeman hasn't been hitting, and they're doing this without Ronald Acuna. So that's two big bats that are kind of missing right now. Like, could Freeman get going? Yeah, that's true, too. So, I mean, I do think, I know the headline is going to be Dodgers are down to,

Oh, but we should really also give credit to Atlanta for doing what they're doing. It will get interesting now if the Dodgers win the next two games, right? And all of a sudden the series is tied. Okay. Then,

then things will get very interesting. But if you're Atlanta, you've got to feel really good about how things are slotted up. It's Bueller MortMorton next, right? Bueller-Morton? What is the CS we forgot, though? Didn't the Dodgers go down 3-1? Didn't the Braves go up 3-1?

Literally last year. This was the matchup last year. Last year. Yes. So if you talk to Braves fans, they're super tepid. They're excited, but they have that PTSD, for lack of a better term, about everything that's already happened to them. That's why I said it will be interesting to see what happens and how they react in LA. The Dodgers have been much better in LA

than on the road this year. I don't know. I think it's a great series. I'm going to be at the other series, though, and I'm kind of jealous that I'm not at the NLCS, though getting on a plane all the way out to L.A., not a super fun time. The Boston flight, a little bit quicker for me here in D.C. Yeah, the ALCS has been wild so far. Enrique Hernandez is just on fire. Three homers in the first two games. Game one was a mess.

It was Sale versus Frambois Valdez. Neither pitcher completed three innings. So it took 16 pitchers to record 51 outs in that game. Not ideal for Game 1. What has made things really complicated in this series, though, Lance McCullers, we didn't talk about at the end of last week because we didn't know the extent of his injury. He's down for the series. the series and now Luis Garcia has a knee injury he's still on the roster as of now because they take him off the roster he's ineligible to be on the World Series roster so they're down two pitchers right now and they're scrambling in a big way so I thought going into this series I thought between Grinke and Odorizzi they were reasonably well covered for at least one injury and possibly two Odorizzi ended up having to pitch a lot in game two because Garcia left early, but Odorizzi had to warm up on the game mound

because that was an injury. And I think that is much more difficult for a starter who probably has a longer routine than a reliever who might get hot a little quicker and more often. He was wearing a moda sleeve. Did you see that? I didn't even notice.

Not very observant. Well, a moda sleeve tracks the stress on your arm. And so he really just did his regular routine. They were tracking the stress on his arm for whatever time over time fatigue chart they have. So he really just did the regular thing with the crow hops and the behind the mound kind of long toss. It was pretty impressive to see him i think uh maybe it was dallas braden was like yeah doing the warm-up in front of everybody was the hardest part once he stands on the mound he'll be all right but i think i mean how do they cover this i think they're still okay yeah because uh

or kitty i but i'm in the tank for Rikidi, so I think Rikidi can go six or something. Or at least five, but I think six. And then I think Granke goes. When I talked to Granke late in the season, he said his neck felt fine. So I don't think he

has any effects left of the neck. He also, we also talked a little bit about his Ks being down. And part of the plan for him this year was to be a bulk guy for that staff, to be the innings guy. And so just in game planning and season planning, they kind of planned for fewer Ks just to get him through innings quicker and give up maybe some contact on that power change that would lead to outs.

So he said he was a little surprised that the strikeout rate dipped as much as it did, but he said part of it was planned. So he could have some wrinkles up his sleeve, even game planning-wise, if he was planning to be one way during the season and then he's something different in the postseason. It'd be kind of cool to see.

I mean, I calling for calling him old because that's a nice way to get an fu from a player uh but uh if cranky had some tricks left it would be an old dog with new tricks yeah but how my concern that we know is he's not super stretched out right like has he been have you talked to him as of late like has he been throwing these big bullpen sessions like once they put you in the bullpen you're in the bullpen you're on the bullpen schedule so he's not necessarily stretched out to go five six innings so even if he starts and gives them a good three they're they're kind of crushing somehow why do i think right for her reason i think this is like a and i might be totally wrong but i just kind of feel like for an older dude like him like maybe it's not as big a deal. I don't know.

I mean, he just has to get up to 90. He just has to get up to 90. Yes. Yes. Because he doesn't throw, not because he's old, because he doesn't throw that hard. That's what you're saying. I'm sure he'd be thrilled to hear that. I mean, he knows.

How hard can it be to throw 80 poo? Yeah. Yeah. We'll go work on that at the park one of these afternoons. I can't throw 80-poo. No, I never could. The Red Sox had back-to-back innings with grand slams in game two. They had an 8-0 lead after two. I'm thinking, is that lead really safe against Houston? Houston did come back and made it 9-5 in the end.

There were a couple of situations where I think they had left the bases loaded or two guys on. really safe against Houston. Houston did come back and made it 9-5 in the end. So they, I don't know. There were a couple of situations where I think they had left the bases loaded or two guys on. Yeah. I kept thinking like, oh man, if these were turning into runs, they would be chipping away. Houston's, I mean, both of these teams are the no lead is truly safe sort of offense where, yeah, you could have a huge lead

and feel really good after two and still find a way to lose that game because the other team's offense is just that good. And I think both teams have some depth pitching questions. But which team are you more concerned about from a pitching perspective now? Is it Houston by far because of the injuries or do you think things are closer to level? I know coming into the series, people were looking at Boston and the way they were managing things and saying it's a little more of a tightrope for the Red Sox with how they manage things in the previous round. Maybe that wouldn't work over a seven-game series.

But if you had to pick a current staff with the injuries Houston has taken on, do you favor the Astros or do you favor the Red Sox from a pure pitching perspective? What do you think, Britt? I'd probably still give the Astros a slight edge. It also depends, though. Do you consider Chris Sayles outing a step forward like a positive because when he when he needed it he turned it on but he still isn't what he should what he needs

to be for them right um so i still will give the edge to houston i think you can look at that sale outing and you can make a case no matter what for oh i feel encouraged because of this because he turns it on when he had to turn it on or Or you could be like, no, he's still not the guy that they've been waiting on. He's still not the potential game changer for the Boston Red Sox. So I still think Houston, because as you said, as you guys said, there's guys in the bullpen

who could maybe give them more than a traditional reliever could. That was a very slight edge. And I think Houston's lineup is still a little more lethal boston certainly is capable of power but i think houston's lineup is just a little bit better um in terms of their approach uh in terms of not being shut down quite as much i think if the tables were turned right and houston was up eight to nothing do the red sox come back with as much fervor i don't know um but i I still think that Houston can maybe eke out this series.

Whoever wins this series, it feels like it's going to go limping into the World Series. But I guess you can maybe say that about the Dodgers, too. The Braves look like the most complete team right now left. They're missing the biggest parts. Which is right. If we had talked about that, I don't know, even two or three weeks ago, we would have been laughing on the floor, right? Like, which if we had talked about that, like, I don't know, even two, three weeks ago, we would have been like laughing on the floor. Right. Like the Braves. Really?

I think it's worth pointing out that, yeah, the Astros are a better offense because right now you're like, is there a better offense in baseball than Boston's? But, you know, some of it is just I have to say it's luck. I'm sorry. I mean, they're really good players, but, like, this isn't how they played for 162. It's not even how they played for 30 in September. You know, this offense is over its head a little bit. And just, you know, the numbers say that it's not predictive. You know, hot streaks exist. We're not, you know, there's no nerds saying they don't exist.

They obviously exist. We just don't know. It doesn't give you any more information for the next plate appearance because the hot streak can just go away at some point and so yeah i could see or kitty coming tonight and dominating and then we then we just have a different perspective on it you know especially if they announce cranky as the starter then it's not so much like oh they're bullpenning game four they're screwed this that and the other like then it's like okay they, they got a future Hall of Famer going tomorrow, and they're up 2-1.

So Momentum is the name of tonight's starting pitcher, and Sale had a 99 stuff plus during the season. So he had below average stuff in his return. I think it's pretty easy to see that he's not back to where he was. And I think I would be on the coin that said, yeah, when he really ramps it up, but that also cuts, if he really ramps it up to get to his old stuff, that also cuts down how long he can be out there. And that's what we've seen, right? He hasn't been out there very long. So, yeah, it's not Sale the savior. You almost need a situation with Sale out there where you get a big lead early

and you can just focus on efficiency and not try to blow hitters away because he's got a three- or four-run lead. That gives him a little more buffer, gets him a little deeper into the game. If it's a tight game and he has to reach back and kind of sit close to that max, I think we see more three-inning sorts of appearances from him throughout the series. I think the Grinke plan probably just hinges on Urquidy in Game 3. If Urquidy goes five or more, Grinke probably starts Game 4. If Urquidy goes short, Grinke probably follows him,

and they probably got to come back with Frambois Valdez on short rest in Game 4, just thinking about all the different options. Because if they go off the roster, if they make an injury replacement, it's not good. I mean, like Brandon Bielek, you don't want Bielek out there with your season on the line as a starter. It's going to keep taxing that bullpen. So I think that's sort of plan A versus plan B.

They may empty the coffers tonight and say, you know, bullpen game tomorrow and maybe we lose it, but we got to win tonight. I mean, that's if it is tight and they got runners. If Boston gets runners on and it's like a one or two run game and it's the fourth inning, Rikiti's coming out.

Predictions for this series now that we're tied at one, we didn't get a chance to make predictions before it started. I'll start with you, Britt. I think Houston in seven. I think this is going to go seven no matter what. They're evenly matched. There's issues on both sides. There's concerns on both

sides, I guess, is a better term. But I still think Houston with the experience with that lineup is going to edge Boston in seven. That's just my gut feeling. I don't know if I have any specific numbers to back it up, but that's where I'm going.

Dino? Astros tonight. Red Sox the next day. Oh, we're getting detailed. Well, I would say that the Red Sox will then win at least one of the next day. Oh, we're getting detailed. Well, I would say that the Red Sox will then win at least one of the next two because it'll be so dicey for them.

You know, like Frambois Shortrest or Granke, they're going to lose. The Astros are going to lose one of those. So that means seven, right? So you think it goes seven. Yeah. That means it goes seven. And then who's on the mound for seven? Like Luis Garcia? Health permitted. I mean, seven is just going to be a total mixed bag, right?

They don't have – It's going to be like everybody – There's no Lance McCullers, so it's just going to be, you know, win at all costs. Who do I like in that scenario? I'm going to – I'm sticking with the Astros. I picked them to win it all. So Astros in seven. We are in agreement. Give me Jabronis in seven. I think them to win it all. Astros in seven. We are in agreement.

Give me Jabronis in seven. I think the Red Sox are going to find a way. I think these injuries are going to catch up to Houston enough where it's going to give Houston just enough of a difficult path here to get through it that Boston can take advantage. Offense is good enough. They're a dangerous team. We've been talking about it throughout the entire postseason.

I'm on the Red Sox here. A Boston Atlanta World Series, I don't think a lot of people would have had that in their predictions. No, but are you taking Atlanta to get a 2-0 lead? He's thinking long and hard about it. Yeah, I think so. It's two games. They are it. Yeah. Sort of ready. Yeah, I think so. It's two games. They are one of two.

I am too. And thank you, Sam, for pointing out that my post is a bit different. Yeah, you got to put that up on the board. There you go. I mean, I don't want to toot my own horn, but beep beep. There's one writer, I don't have to name him, but there's one writer that got every single part of the bracket wrong. That's amazing.

Awesome. It's really good. Shot the moon. You just can't predict. The favorites lose a lot more than they win, I feel like. I don't know. Somebody can maybe double-check that, but it just seems like there's just a ton of upsets.

I mean, it's the old adage. 162. Everyone who gets there deserves to be there. And then it's whatever team gets hot at the right time. And that's Atlanta in a nutshell, isn't it? Whatever team gets hot right now, that's Atlanta. That's the offense. Yeah.

All right. Both of you have Houston, Atlanta. I'm on the opposite side of both. I have Red Sox and Dodgers, so I'm on a little island. You're still staying with the Dodgers. They're going to come back and win. Wow. Nah. Their World Series was against the Giants, I think. I just think that was it. They're going to get back home. They're going to get Game 3 and everything's going to swing right back. All that momentum's going to be right back on their side. Wait, wait. Post that one from Charles.

We have to be all proud and pat me on the head. Yeah, look at that decisiveness. A little decisiveness from the King of Waffles on this great Waffle House day. Look at Sam coming up with DVR Head Brewers versus White Sox. Did you? Just trying to shame you, I think. I don't think I took the Brewers because I figured they would be just breaking my heart.

I think that was my prediction. The Brewers would ruin my life and make me very sad. I got to go back and listen. That prediction was correct. Yeah, they absolutely did that. I knew that was coming. I saw that heartbreak coming from a mile away. So I'm

getting wiser at my advanced age. But we need to go. And the good news is we have another show again tomorrow right back here at 11 30 a.m. Eastern. Thanks to all of you for jumping in on the live stream. And of course, everybody listening to the pod version later on. You can find us on Twitter.

She is at Britt underscore Jerole, the King of Waffles at Eno Saris. I am at Derek Van Ryper. You can find us on Twitter. She is at Brit underscore Jerole, the King of Waffles at Eno Saris. I am at Derek Van Ryper. You can drop us an email, ratesandbarrels at theathletic.com. That's going to wrap things up for this episode of Rates and Barrels. We're back with you tomorrow.

Thanks for listening. Thank you.