Rates & Barrels - First-Time All-Stars & An MLBPA Investigation

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

DVR and Britt discuss several first-time All-Stars including four starters in the 2025 Midsummer Classic, superstars on that stage for the first time like Pete Crow-Armstrong and James Wood, and a few veterans getting the nod on the strength of outstanding first-half performances. Plus, they discuss Britt's recent story of an MLBPA investigation into agent Yasser Mendez following allegations of financial misconduct.Rundown1:44 Stories of First-Time All-Stars & Starters7:03 Does Cal Raleigh Pass the "Neighbor Test"?14:19 Shane Smith: Second Rule 5 Pick to Make ASG in Draft Year18:11 Kyle Stowers & A Late BreakoutBritt's Story ($) about Stowers' adjustments: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/647849028:24 MacKenzie Gore and Questions About Patience for the New Front Office in D.C.42:11 MLBPA Investigating Allegations of Financial Misconduct Against Agent Yasser MendezBritt's Story ($) about the allegations: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6478358Follow DVR on Bluesky: @dvr.bsky.socialFollow Britt on Bluesky: @brittghiroli.bsky.sociale-mail: [e-mail] our Discord: https://discord.gg/FyBa9f3wFeSubscribe to The Athletic: theathletic.com/ratesandbarrelsHosts: Derek VanRiper & Britt GhiroliProducer: Brian SmithExecutive Producer: Derek VanRiper Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Derek VanRiper here with Britt Truroly. Britt is back. Eno's in Germany but Britt is back on the pod. Britt, great to have you on. Thanks. It's good to be back. Good to be talking baseball. I love this time of year.

We got All-Star, draft, trade-in line, playoffs, all that stuff going on. So it's good. It's a good time to be a baseball fan. Absolutely. So today we're gonna focus a lot on All-Star game rosters. You wrote a story about an MLBPA investigation into an agent.

We'll talk about that a little bit later on in the show. And I think every year we talk about the All-Star festivities, we hit on a couple of things. One, the new format, the head-to-head format of the Home Run Derby in recent years is a massive success, right? We love that. We know who four of the eight participants are

at this point in time. So we have James Wood, we have Byron Buxton, we have Cal Raleigh, and we have Ronald Acuna Jr., right? So half the field already set, the other half we'll know in the next couple of days, all of that's good. Like with or without Pete Alonso, the home run derby is exciting. The format is good and it's, it's a huge, huge win to get that sort of interest on the event again.

win to get that sort of interest on the event again. What I think is interesting though is the all-star game itself because I'm not sure what purpose it serves for me and I'm also not sure what purpose it serves for the average viewer. Like I think it's awesome to just look at the different stories in the game and talk about first-time all or first time starters and kind of dig through the rosters and people get obsessed about snubs and I get it. There are names that you expect to see on the roster. It's weird that Juan Soto didn't make the initial NL All-Star roster this year. There's still time for some of those snubs to find their way onto the roster so I'm

not even that worried about snubs. I think what the game is to me is basically a celebration of baseball, a snapshot of the best players right now. At least that's what I thought it was supposed to be. And then I know over the years, they decided to add the rule, every team gets an All-Star. So that starts to change the shape of the roster a little bit too.

And that's how you get some kind of legendary, future legendary players that get snubbed on occasion. So there's a cost to that. You can't make the rosters, you know, 80 players per league. That would be ridiculous. So I'm just curious, like, what do you think the role of the All-Star game is for the average fan, like the average person, you know, in your life that likes baseball, but doesn't necessarily love baseball, they tune in sometimes, they

don't tune in every day. Does anything draw them to this game? No, no, I think the casual baseball fan won't watch. The Diehards I think will watch. I don't think people in Chicago that are White Sox fans are like, you know what, wasn't gonna watch this game before but I gotta watch my token guy. I think the home run derby appeals more

to the casual baseball fan, because it's very easy to sit and watch guys hit home runs, you know? But to me, the All-Star game, you know, is it better than the NBA and then it fell? Probably still, but it kind of toes the line where it doesn't matter. Remember when it used to count for home field advantage? And then it was like a huge, like, you know, it wasn't a huge deal then, but I think people cared more about the outcome, guys played harder. Now we see a case where it doesn't matter at all. Guys are taking selfies during it, they're having fun. I do think MLB looks

at it as a way to just like showcase talent, showcase stars. Like, Eli DiLacruz in Cincinnati, you know, outside of Cincinnati, it is not as big of a deal as you should be, right? So I think what you are seeing is, and you know, there have been years that MLB has kind of had, what is it, like a legend pick or an honor pick or like a guy who is going out but is not having an all-star year, but it's a big deal. All of a sudden he makes it. I like that idea. I like thinking about it as like a big marketing event

for MLB, which is essentially what it is. Right, I think if you go into it with that mindset, then you can look past the things that aren't perfect about it. And that's probably the healthiest way to think about it. It can't be much more than that. I thought it was silly when they put home field advantage in the World Series on the line in the All-Star game.

I know the idea of incentivizing it to matter was the goal, but that was an incorrect incentive to use. That's why they don't use it anymore, right? Let the games that count determine who actually gets that because it matters a lot to have home field advantage in a World Series. So let's focus on some of the positives here. First time All Stars, four first timers

that are gonna start the game. Cal Raleigh, first time All Star starting behind the plate for the AL, Jacob Wilson, Ryan O'Herns is gonna be the starting DH for the AL, Pete Crow Armstrong on the NL side, first time All Star, he's getting a starting nod. Like Big Dumper deserves all the flowers. He's getting a lot of love, I think,

throughout this first half, because what he is doing right now is basically keeping pace with the likes of Judge and Otani from a power perspective, and he's doing it as a catcher, taking on the wear and tear on his body of the most rigorous defensive position in the game. And it's been happening for the past calendar year, so it's even more than just a great first half. This is like a broader snapshot of a guy that's sort of ascended to

to star sort of levels. Jacob Wilson is a really unique player. You talk about guys that don't get a lot of shine outside of their market and the athletic situation as a result of John Fisher is probably the worst situation in baseball right now to get a player exposure nationally. Jacob Wilson might be Luis Arias with his hit tool, but he's on pace for 15 homers this year. And yeah, the ballpark in the heat in Sacramento, that's a factor, sure, I don't care, but he's hitting for more power than expected.

And unlike Arias, Jacob Wilson has defensive value. He's starting shortstop. So I think it's cool to see a guy like Wilson, getting out there, getting in front of the national audience and actually getting a little bit of attention for the season he's put together. And people will take some time, maybe learn a little bit more about him,

dig into how unique his profile is. And a lot of people just look at that and say, that's a throwback sort of player. And I generally agree with that, but I do look at Wilson as one of those guys that even if I wouldn't have voted him in as an all-star game starter I think it's a great story that he's an all-star. I agree I think there's some good stories I think people can nitpick and we can nitpick as you said it's not perfect but I do think that you know on some of

these lesser-known teams it is an opportunity for us to get to know them. Like you mentioned the Big Dumper being a star. I disagree. I think he should be bigger. I think we should be like, oh my God, I'm so sick of this guy. He's everywhere. Right? Like where are his sponsors?

Where are his ads? Where are these, these huge profiles on him? Right? Like I feel like outside of Otani and Judge, there, you know, there becomes this huge drop off factor. And I think the All-Star game hopefully can be a springboard for a lot of these guys in terms of letting people who aren't the obsessed baseball fans, like me and you, know about them.

Right? Like I should be able to ask casual fans of my neighbor down the street, hey, have you heard of this guy in Seattle? And I'm betting you, Derek, they're going to say no. So I think, you know, what we need to do is celebrate these seasons and also make sure that these guys are getting, you know, the promotions necessary. People have talked about this forever that MLB doesn't market its players. And I think the All-Star game for all its flaws is a chance to do that. There are some really good first-time stories, as you mentioned.

So to me, I guess when I, when I look at this, I'm like, okay, there's, is there a good enough mix of star power and first time guys that have great stories that, you know, the national audience might not be familiar with. And I honestly think there is. There are things to quibble with. Should Juan Soto be an all star? Yes, he should have been an all star. Are there cases for other guys who probably should have gone, especially if you look at

pure statistics? You know, we look at the Orioles. Ryan O'Hern's a great story. Does Scott Anderson having a better season? Does he deserve to go? Probably. But Ryan O'Hern, this is a guy who's 32 years old, got dumped for cash considerations a couple years by Kansas City, finds his way to Baltimore, and has become like the team

leader there. So, you know, I think in certain cases, when you look at O'Hern over Henderson, it does make sense. Gunnar Henderson is a star. He's going to be a star for a long time. In five years, is Ryan O'Hern going to be an All-Star? I don't think a lot of people are going to take that bet. So I think there is a little bit of a balance here. I like the stories attached to a lot of these guys, even if you can make a case for, hey, well, this guy should have gone or this guy should have gone. You know,

we have to have a White Sox player, we have to have a Rockies player. And that means that some really good players on teams like the Chicago Cubs that are having really good seasons are just not going to be able to get in. And I don't think there's a way you can fix that. But you still get a handful of guys from those teams anyway. And I think that's what that's what kind of led me to that first question up top is like, I'm not really sure what gets people to tune into this game. I don't think, as you said, I don't think White Sox fans are necessarily tuning in for Shane Smith to maybe pitch in the All-Star game.

And there's also like for pitchers, it's just the schedule line up. And there's other factors that have to go in into that as well. The unfortunate thing, though, in my mind, real quick, as an aside is lots of guys have incentives in their contracts that are baked in. So if you deserve to go and you don't get named because of something, like I don't think Juan Soto misses the 50 or 100 grand, right?

But some of these other guys, that's a big deal, you know, to have these seasons and then to be like, oh, sorry, you're on the Cubs, they already have five guys. So in that avenue, it is unfair to some of these guys who, you know, have those incentives in their contract and they don't get to go for whatever reason. Yeah, I don't know if at some point maybe that incentive should just not be one anymore. It should just be more statistically based instead of something that is a hybrid

of fan voting and players. Like there's a lot of inputs that put these rosters together. But if you have these restrictions, then it does become a little less fair for contract purposes. Pete Crow Armstrong, I think, is getting closer to the national level of appeal, but you're probably right. Does it pass the neighbor test? Like, I don't know. I don't know if Pete Crowe Armstrong is well known up and down the block in my neighborhood, but he's showing platinum

glove skills in center field, tapping into 30 home run power, might steal 40 plus bases this year as well. And you go back to the trade deadline in 2021, PCA was traded for Javier Baez and Trevor Williams. I mean, at the time he was an A-ball player and we knew defensively he was going to be a good center fielder, probably a great center fielder, even at that age and the questions were going to be how much was he going to develop as a hitter? It looks like he's hitting the upper end outcomes

of what he can be as an offensive player and there's still some work to be done. That even with that power speed combo, we're still looking at a guy that could probably become a lot more patient over time and eventually run OVPs that make him even better across the board offensively if he can make that adjustment. Yeah, I mean I think at the time I remember you know he was a well-tided prospect and people were like well they may regret you know making that move. What's interesting is that I didn't think anyone saw Javi Baez a year ago being named as an All-Star starter. And I think you can debate that certainly when you look at other statistics as to whether

or not that was deserved. But there's a lot of good stuff going on in Chicago. PCA is obviously near the top. I do think you're right. I think he's fringy right now. But things like the All-Star game, if he has a big game, like those are things that do kind of elevate you to that next level a little bit. So you know, obviously he's having a great year.

Obviously he's very deserving. That's a guy who there's like four or five guys I think if you look at it that you're like, okay, these guys deserve to be these next stars. Can we get them there? I think is kind of the question. Can, can this sport get them there? Certainly he playing, him playing for the Cubs is a lot better than if he was playing for the White Sox, right? There are advantages. The Cubs are playing really well. You know, they've been really one of the best teams first half year-wise when you look at what

they've been able to do. So I, I like this. I think, you know, overall, when you look at the NL in general there are some things you can kind of quibble with, but I thought for the most part, Derek and I know how you feel, I think the fans do a really good job voting. I don't know what segment of the population is voting. They pretty much get into other sports. I don't know if it works that way. I don't know if it would be quite as accurate if that makes sense. I think I'm continually impressed with who the fans vote in.

I really am. I always find it to be a little off, but I also know that most people voting for this are not looking at the game through the exact same lens as me, so I shouldn't expect the same result. Like I can just sort of accept it as a, things will always look different than what I expect. But Javier Baez, I mean, I, among many others, thought he was just done as a big league player.

I thought we were closer to DFA eat the money than we were to the season he is putting together. So that that's a great story. You know, again, whether or not you think he should start the game, we could have that argument. I don't really think it's worth arguing about because it doesn't actually matter in the grand scheme of things There's a whole bunch of guys though that are getting opportunities for the first time. I mentioned Shane Smith earlier He's the second rule five pick to actually make the all-star game the same year They were selected in the rule five draft the last player to do it Dan Uggla for the Marlins back in 2006. There's a blast in the past.

The big time power guy from the NL East that got that opportunity. I remember that year when he got taken, won the second base job and was just really good from the jump. A pitching side for the AL, you get Chris Bubich. He's been great since coming off an injury last year. He's got a 243 ERA since returning last season and you probably won't find a pitcher on either side of this game working with less velocity than Bubich does. So just a different kind of player putting it together in Kansas City right now.

Hunter Brown is a first time all-star. I think Hunter Brown has an argument to be a top five starter in the entire league right now. And this goes back to last May. This isn't even just a 2025 thing. This has made some adjustments after getting just pummeled early last season and has been a completely different guy kind of working as a co-ace with Framber Valdez. But outside of Houston and outside of fantasy, I think it's easy for people to miss how good Hunter Brown has been, maybe in part because Terrick Scoobel is just on another level right now and may go back to back with A.L. Cy Youngs,

but Hunter Brown should at least be a part of that conversation. Yeah, I agree. And, you know, Jeremy Pena, I think no one has talked enough about him. Obviously, the injury is a factor. But yeah, I think that this has been kind of a little bit of an exciting group. And then of course when you get to the NL, to me, because I'm in the DC area, it'll be really nice for James Wood. We talk about guys who should be stars. I mean James Wood is a guy that everybody should know as well. I mean you look over the last calendar year at what that guy has done. And it's incredible.

I mean, every night he does something that's impressive. And you can say a lot about the Nationals, but they have had a lot of stars. You know, Bryce Harper, Anthony Rendon before his career kind of went off a cliff. Trey Turner, Juan Soto, of course, James Wood now who came over in the Soto trade. He's going to be in the home run derby as well.

And I don't know how much you've watched him, Derek, but he doesn't look like a baseball player. You know, kind of like Aaron Judge as well. He profiles as more of that basketball, football kind of guy, where you're in his presence and you're like, God, this, this is a physical specimen. This guy is a behemoth. And that doesn't often happen in baseball, where you look at a guy and you're like, wow, you know, you've got a lot of average Joes in baseball. These guys are pro athletes, sure, but not to the, you know, they don't have the distinctive body type. James Wood just looks like an athlete. He looks like he could have done any sport he wanted.

And the way he swings the bat so effortlessly, the power he has, you know, what he's able to do in the field, I just, he is a guy, we talked about Pico Armstrong, that should be. And I know the Nationals are a bad team. They just fired Davey Martinez and Mike Rizzo and they're in transition. He's a guy that to me, we should get to a level where everybody knows who he is. He passes that neighbor test as well. And I hope that the All-Star game can help elevate him as well because he's another guy very deserving. The Nationals of course had two All-Stars from that Soto trade. They've had three of the guys, they got that Soto trade that are now All-Stars, which is

just going to go down as one of those trades that was just absolutely wild. But those who aren't super familiar with James Wood, I don't blame you for tuning, not tuning in nightly to watch the Nationals. Card out some time, watch him in the Derby. Make sure you see him in the All-Star game a little bit. He is just an athlete. He's just an absolutely astounding athlete to watch. What's better than a well marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue? A well marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue that was carefully selected by an Instacart

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at over 750 stores. Join for free at rakuten.ca or download the Rakuten app. That's R-A-K-U-T-E-N rakuten.ca. Wood's gonna be the kind of guy that's in a half dozen more All-Star games over the course of his career. Maybe more. He has that type of ceiling.

There's some other guys that made the roster for the first time. Kyle Stowers, someone you wrote about recently that I think as soon as the trade between the Orioles and Marlins was made and Connor Norby had a good second half and Trevor Rogers you know didn't pitch well and he was hurt to begin this season like there's all this all this immediate reaction the Orioles made a horrendous trade and it might just be a bad trade because at least now Trevor Rogers is healthy and pitching well it's one of those trades that might not look as bad over time but Kyle Stowers was sort of an extra guy in that group of prospects that the Orioles had.

You can't keep everyone, gets traded to Miami, gets the opportunity. The question was always going to be, can he cut down on strikeouts enough to be an everyday guy or at least a big side platoon guy? And he's managed to keep excellent hard hit rates. He's lifting the ball more than ever. He's got a 19% barrel rate and the K rate is under 30%. Like he's doing all of the things. What was the adjustment that Stowers made

that has helped him knock that strikeout rate down? Because that to me is the key to him sustaining long-term success beyond what he's done so far in the first half of the season. Yeah, no, you're totally right. It's interesting when that trade went down, he was kind of the afterthought. Norby at the time was the centerpiece. He was the top five prospect for the Orioles at the time, part of a crowded infield picture,

and they basically told Stowers, the Orioles, like, we're going to trade you. So it almost seemed like he was thrown into this trade. And he has a terrible, terrible last season. Just brutal. He has this huge wholeness of swinging, can't hit four seamers. So you know, what he did, what the Marlins did, and credit the Marlins, because they said, you know what? We're going to keep running you out there.

We're going to work on fixing this, but we're going to keep running you out there. And I think in Baltimore, because there were so many other guys, he would be up and down and up and down. And you talk to big leaguers and that mentally has such an effect on you. Every time you have an 0 for 4 or 9, you're like, oh, am I going down? You can't fail up there. So you're constantly looking for that short-term fix instead of what Stowers did, which is kind of remade his swing.

You know, he made his stance a little bit more open in the top half of him, that front side a little bit more closed off, which kind of allows him to rotate just enough. He was kind of overcompensating and really couldn't catch up at all to four seamers high in the zone, Derek. And once the book is out in MLB that you can't hit high four seamers, that's all you're going to get. That's all he was getting. And, you know, there are a couple, I was talking to Clayton McCullough, the Marlins manager

about this, and some of the biggest hits he's had this year have been off that four-seam fastball high in the zone. He turned around Mason Miller almost 102, you know, high four-seamer for a walk-off grand slam in May. And Stadcats ranks, like, ever since values to pitches, and he was at negative six, like, runs last year in that four-seam fastball. This year he's like plus eight, so it's just a huge swing when you look at it. You mentioned the barrels.

I think fixing that huge hole in the swing is why those whips are down. He's proven he can handle that secondary stuff. And I think you're now looking at a guy who has the confidence, right? And that is such a key element when you talk to hitters. What is it? It's an art and a science, right? And that is such a key element when you talk to hitters. What is it? It's an art and a science, right? So I think knowing that he is part of the Marlins' future, knowing that he doesn't have to look over his shoulder when he has a rough stretch, because he did. You know, he started the year so well. And then you look at like in June, he had a little swoon there where the league was

adjusting and he had to adjust back. And over the last week or two before they announced All-Star, I thought he really did that. So he, to me, is a great story because so often with these guys, they need a change of scenery, they need someone to believe in them. And that's really been the case with Kyle Stowers. And I think, you know, people can complain about Soto not getting in and Soto's numbers being a lot better than Stowers and in certain categories. But make no mistake, if there was going to be one guy from the Marlins that made it, it should have been Kyle Stowers.

Like, I don't think that is an argument at all. And I think, you know, when you look at a guy like that and you look at what he's been able to do, I think for the Marlins, it's kind of a negative of what they're gonna have to do, which is find these guys and develop them at the big league level. And now they can point to Kyle Stowers and say,

look what we did here, and that buys trust in it as well well so he's kind of like an organizational success story for that. There's a couple things that come to mind when you talk about a player like Stowers. I think age is a huge factor right and he was drafted out of college in 2019 so college players are older anyway because they've spent some time there and then you get to the point where teams have to make decisions about their 40-man roster. So if you have a deep system eventually you have a roster crunch and when you have a roster crunch that means there's an opportunity for someone else to swoop in and maybe get a discount on a player because of age and because Stowers was in that extra outfielder up-and-down sort of, it was easier to pry him loose in that trade

as a secondary piece than it would have been if Stowers were in an organization where he had more opportunities. Like a team that was using him more might've been less able or willing to even trade him in the first place. But I do think this type of player, these kind of triple A guys that are trying to break through,

I think they're becoming more popular as trade targets because they can play right away and they sometimes can still get better. I think there's this belief that the aging curve is only going to lead you to improvement at the beginning or the first half. If you're a team that can find good traits in a player and help them make those adjustments and you can afford to give them a larger window of playing time, the payoff could be maybe two or three really productive years before they turn 30. And then the aging curve kicks in. They're not quite as effective as they were when you traded for them. But look, you found a starting left fielder that is a couple wins above replacement. That's still really helpful for teams trying to improve on the margins, trying to rebuild. Maybe Kyle Stowers is part of another trade the Marlins make later and it brings them

back a bigger part of their future. I don't know if he'll be on their next good team because of the quality of the rebuild and how far away they might be from contention, but I think players like this are going to be frequently traded because they're often squeezed off the roster for logistical reasons Hunter Goodman having a great year in Colorado. I think it's interesting 11 of his 16 homers are actually on the road this year So it's not like he's doing two-thirds or three-quarters of his damage at Coors Field is OPS because of that nearly 150 points higher away from Coors. He's catching more than we expected at the beginning of the year so that's just a good story for a franchise that just does not have a lot of positive momentum right now so just

the tip of the cap to Hunter Goodman for getting recognition. I was a little surprised to see Brendan Donovan get on as a reserve for the NL. I think it's just because there's nothing on the back of a Donovan baseball card that would make you say this guy's an all-star, but he's an underrated player, can play all over defensively, he gets on base a lot. So just kind of fun that he gets the nod even though he does not fit the mold of what I think of when I think of an all-star. Yeah, I agree. And I think, you know, when you look at it, there to me are like a lot of guys who should be considered for this. Maybe someone is flashy, you know, like these guys, like you mentioned Donovan, and I think that there are some guys who, you know, Ryan O'Hurman, I'm glad the fans voted him in,

like they're not super flashy, they're not these super sexy names, but they deserve to be there. And this may be their only chance, right? Like, will Kyle Souther be an All-Star again? I don't know if I can say that with any certainty. Can you? Will Juan Soto? Yes, probably. So, you know, I think that shouldn't be how you base it, but I think, you know, if you want to just enjoy this for what it is, which is like we said,

you just can't take it super seriously, should Sayaka Suzuki be there? I know fans are, Cubs fans are really upset about that as well. Probably, but I think people feel good about his chances of getting in again too. So I think that these are good stories for some of these more underrated guys. And you know, by and large, to me, the All-Star game, we're going to celebrate baseball, we're going to celebrate every team being there. Then we have to acknowledge that the All-Stars look a little different, that we're not just going to have the most popular players at this event every year. There is something to be said for popularity, but then there's also something to be said for,

like you said, the Hunter Browns of the world, who lots of people don't know who that is still, and they should. Yeah, and then the NL pitcher reserves are kind of interesting too. I mean, you have non-closer relievers getting a little more shine. Randy Rodriguez is an Eno guy through and through.

He's been talking about him pretty much going back to the winter. And maybe Randy Rodriguez is the next closer for the Giants. So they're just a little ahead of that one. You see Jason Adam from the Padres, basically a top 20 reliever over the last four seasons combined by war just consistently puts up great ratios working out of that out of that San Diego pen right now. So you see guys like that getting the nod.

Nothing bad about that. And then look, Matthew Boyd, I think is another great story. Great story. On a good Cubs team, you know, he's 34 years old. He's come back from major injury. He's already thrown more innings this year than he has in any season since 2019. And it's for a team that lost Justin Steele

to a season ending injury early in the year. So Matthew Boyd is one of those guys on a really good team that you look at and say, man, if they hadn't signed him, if they'd signed someone else that was hurt or less effective, it would have made a pretty big difference on where the Cubs sit at this point in the season. Yeah, I agree. And Mackenzie Gore, as I mentioned earlier, another, another DC guy who probably should be getting a little bit more attention than he is, but plays on a nationalist team that nightly is terrible,

defensively is terrible. Have you looked at his fielding independent ERA? I wonder how much lower that is than his regular ERA because the nationals are just, I wonder if there's a lot of discrepancy there or it's just a case that, you know, bad luck. I don't know. It's actually right. Like the ERA is right but I think it's the whip. I actually think, I think Mackenzie Gore gives up a few more hits as a result of having that defense behind him. Yeah, like a 121 whip doesn't usually sit next to a 311 ERA. And the Nationals defensive shortcomings, I think, are at least part of the reason why they had to make big changes in the organization. I read some stuff from one of the people on our Discord. It was a story about just the lack of defensive improvement. CJ Abrams being a very bad defender at short is a surprise, I think, relative

to scouting expectations. I think the belief was that you could at least improve CJ Abrams at shortstop to the point where he'd be closer to an average defender instead of one of the league's worst defensive short stops by metrics. And it's not just Abrams, right? Other players around the diamond on that team that haven't gotten better, Kavit Ruiz behind the plate is not a good defender. That has a cascading impact on your pitching staff. Doesn't hurt your whip necessarily, but it does make things more difficult for your pitchers

as a whole. And yeah, Gore, I think, has just made that year over year sort of improvement where you could see every season was a little bit better than the last one and this has been the biggest step forward we've seen from him so far still has a couple years before free agency and we'll see who ends up actually taking the helm whether it's the the interim GM or whether it's gonna be someone else that actually continues building this roster but you know said something on our show on Monday. I'm not sure I'm on board with this.

I think you can be a great tiebreaker since you're right there. You're in that situation. What do you think the timeline is going to be for the Nationals to reach the playoffs again? Because the stat we keep throwing out there is they are, they're second to last in wins with only the Rockies behind them since they won their World Series. That is just mind-blowing that the rebuild's been this unpleasant to watch, I think we'll say, maybe is the right way to describe it. How do you think the ownership group sees the timeline

that they're going to put on this team to reach the postseason again? Is it two to three years? Is it actually longer? How much pressure will there be on the new front office decision makers to tick that box again? Well, I think this ownership group

has really been apathetic and has kind of really not cared much up until this decision on Davy and Mike Rizzo. And make no mistake, this decision was also financially motivated. Both of these men were due hefty raises and options if they were picked up. They had to make decisions on Dave Martinez like pretty much now. Mike Rizzo, they could have waited until the end of the year. But I think if you had asked me in spring, Derek, I would have said, this is the year

they have to start trying to improve, maybe 26, they'll be a playoff team. I didn't expect it. Nobody expected, because they touted this as like the end of the rebuild. They were going to start competing. Then you look at what's happened here and we have a case where they have a couple of really good players and nothing else. And you just talked about, you know, we talked about their defensive shortcomings, the lack of the little things, lack of the fundamentals.

They don't have a lot of depth in that minor league system. They've had huge issues drafting and developing. They do have the number one pick in the draft, but that's not enough to save an organization. I do think they're probably several years out. Two to three would be optimistic. I think it might take even longer because now the ownership group is going to have to do something they've never done and pick ahead of baseball operations. This is not something that they've done. When this team came over, they had Stan Kast and his president and they had Jim Bowden, his GM. When Jim Bowden really was

forced to resign, a colleague of ours, over an international scandal, they just promoted Mike Rizzo was already there. So they've never actually done this search. They've never had to kind of start over from scratch, which makes me believe that they're not going to all of a sudden be like, you know what, we're in a time of turmoil. Let's put ourselves right back into that top 10 of payroll. They haven't. And honestly, since the patriarch of that family in Ted Lerner died, they have really been a backseat, off-hands ownership group to the detriment of this organization. So I think it's going to be much longer.

I'm curious if you don't think that they were close. I don't think they're close. I think a lot of what they have done, they acquired in the Soto trade. And had they not made that Soto trade, we're talking about a team that's probably just as bad as the Colorado Rockies. The Holt Renfrew Beauty Refresh offer starts soon. Enjoy up to 20% off select beauty and grooming

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That trade may have been a franchise saving trade that Mike Rizzo was able to pull off, right? If you imagine that trade being even half as rewarding as it's been so far in terms of quality of the big leaguers that came back, even that would be a pretty big step down from what they are. I think they're respectable because of that deal. The interesting thing about this job also is that in the past, payrolls were bigger. But with the ownership, the transfer of ownership when

usually when the first generation owner of a franchise passes away, the spending patterns are not the same with the children. It's just different. No guarantees that it will be different but that's just the basic assumption I make is that the appetite, the interest is a little bit different. It's something that was inherited. It was not something that was purchased so as a result of that the appetite, the interest is a little bit different. It's something that was inherited. It was not something that was purchased. So as a result of that, the competitive drive might not be there. When you start to think about how they could be better, you have to think about a team that would scout, draft, develop better than it has so far.

That takes infrastructure. We've made a big deal about the lack of a trajectory machine for the Nationals. That seems like a really bizarre thing to not have in the modern game. Like just doesn't doesn't click for me at all. Like why why wouldn't you have that? What kind of front office leader do you think they need? Do they need do they need someone who's more analytically driven to help modernize everything? Do they need someone who's done the job at a high level for a long time?

Can they actually bring in a first-time GM? The range of people out there, I mentioned James Click is kind of an interesting name because of the way he was just pushed out in Houston. That could be an opportunity for any team looking for someone to head up their baseball operations to hire him. I don't know if you've had any chances to speak to Kim Eng, but the way things ended in Miami, is that the last time Kim Eng is going to be atop a major league organization? I know she's the commissioner right now of the Athletes Unlimited Softball League, so I don't know if that's a path back into the big leagues potentially.

Who do you think they're really going to look at for this opportunity? Well, it depends. Aren't they going to pay these people? Because there seems to be a lot of thought that they are not wanting to pay top end prices for executives. And if that happens, Derek, then you are looking at, okay, who can we get from these organizations? That is a number two or a three. And you're looking at, you know, Tampa Bay or Cleveland or you have some of these organizations that,

you know, have really smart people and where it would be a promotion then they'd be able to leave. I think personally, as you said, if you're going to build out the infrastructure, in my mind you've got to build out the front office too. Why not have a Kimming or somebody who has done it before as a president, you know, and somebody who has, you know, all sides, the baseball experience, the GM experience, the analytics background, and then underneath them have a very young, analytically savvy GM and have them build out your

baseball operations staff. Like I think to me that is one of the better situations going. You see it, you see it in Philly, you see it in LA. Like, I think if you're going to put on your big book pants and be a real organization here, then you have to get real talent, and that means paying for them, and that means getting somebody that's front-facing at the top and having somebody under them who's really focused on building up the analytics and the things that they're sorely behind in and kind of having the blend. I mean, you look at kind of what Kansas City has done and they have a lot of baseball people and they also added 30 people in the analytics world. So I think it can be done. You know, you look at what the Mets have done with David

Sterns. I think you need a president. And I also think if you're the Nats, you need somebody under that president that is going to specifically grow that technology. Because as you mentioned, there's just no reason you shouldn't, even if you don't believe in this technology. Players do, other teams do. So at worst case scenario, you're playing defense and you're like, we should get it because everybody else has it, right?

Like the lack of regard for what other teams are doing, how far behind they are in certain areas still. To me, if you care about this team and you want to keep it, and that's a whole nother question to the learners who have already put this team up for sale and explored that at one point in time, so I don't know how into it they are, but if you really want to turn this thing around, you have to bring in experienced people at the top. And then under them, it's okay to have a first-time GM. You know, it's okay to have a first-time farm director, but you need people also who have done it, who have that experience at

the very top and are okay delegating that down below. I think Rizzo's front office was very small. A lot of that had to do with ownership. There were a lot of cuts made even since the 19 World Series. And I think that if you're gonna do it the right way, you're probably looking at four to five years, unfortunately. And then you have to look at, is Gore a part of your next good team? Is James Wood a part of your next good team? There might be some uncomfortable decisions that are made because we can all agree that

this rebuild is not what it was meant to be. I remember Mike Rizzo saying a few years ago, I don't use the word rebuild, we just retool. It's not going to be that long. Well, it has been that long and it has been ugly. And now I think you just have to let this kind of burn to the studs and start from scratch. Yeah, I think the tricky thing about it, I think when you look at James Wood, you would say you want to do everything you possibly can to build around him. Like he should be your franchise player. He should be your franchise player. He should be the guy that's there for the next 10 plus years.

That's your ultimate goal. And sometimes rebuilding teams do make the commitment to a player like that and three, four, five years into a 10 plus year deal, that's when everything can start to pay off. The amazing thing about this Nationals team is that if they had made this decision sooner, the new regime could be in place. Or even if it, again, Mike DiBertolo is the interim GM.

If you knew with more than a month before the trade deadline that you were going to be calling the shots, you could have spent extensive time considering all of your options with a player like Gore. Because in the event that you are going to take the longer path and you're not going to get as much buy-in as you think you need to go after top-end free agents, like Eno suggested if they were a team that could spend for free agents again, if ownership wanted to do that, Dylan Cease would make this rotation look a lot better after this season.

You have a one-two at the top with Cease and Gore. That makes a big difference. If you can start doing things like that again, it's a really interesting job and you could shorten up that timetable. If you don't have that buy-in and you're not getting the buy-in you want for the infrastructure you need, that's where I feel like it turns into a little bit of a trap job. And if you haven't had that chance to really explore, hey, what if we trade McKenzie Gore now? There's a shortage of pitching. He'd be the best pitcher available at the trade deadline by miles. What if we can turn McKenzie Gore into three or four future big

leaguers? Because that might actually be a possibility. I think it's much harder to come to that decision with three and a half weeks before the trade deadline than it would have been with even three and a half months if they had made this change prior to the start of the season or back in even in January. Yes, except with Di Bartolo, I think he doesn't get enough credit for the Soto trade.

He was very instrumental in that. So I have to think that if Rizzo was thinking about it, that Di Bartolo had been doing research and legwork on it, on Gore for some time. So he would think he'd be in a position to do something like that. Outside of that, they don't have a whole lot trade deadline wise. The timing is very weird. I believe it was tied to the option with Dave Martinez. I do think they have to be a little proactive with someone like Gore.

I'm curious if he, if they do move him. I think at this point in time you're going to have to be. But I don't know, like are they going to actually search for a GM or are they just going to let Di Bartolo take over and kind of see where they're at? Are they going to sell this team? There are so many question marks right now for the Nationals. Keep in mind they are now far beyond the worst ownership group in DC. and see where they're at. Are they going to sell this team? There are so many question marks right now for the Nationals. Keep in mind, Eric, they are now far beyond

the worst ownership group in D.C. Dan Snyder's out of town, right? So all the emphasis now is on the Nationals and on getting out of this mess. It feels like 20 years ago that they won the World Series. It really does. Yeah, it's hard to believe it was just 2019.

So they're catching all the heat in the local sports talk. Oh, well, it's tough. You got to make a decision. I mean, if you thought about selling before, maybe this is the perfect time to go ahead and sell before you make long term financial commitments to any players before you have new front office people in place for the long term as well. Maybe maybe that'll be the path that the nationals ownership group

chooses to take. We will see how it plays out. So elsewhere in baseball, Brit, you've had a couple of stories recently that are from the ugly, ugly side of the game. The MLBPA is investigating an agent following allegations of financial misconduct. So, okay, what's going on in this story? What do we know so far? So a lot. And this is a grievance process. So all of this is being heard right now by the MLBPA. Johan Rojas with the Philadelphia Phillies is alleging that Yassir Mendez, who was his agent for several years while he was at rep one baseball convinced him to take out these big league advanced loans, rocket fans, you know these loans that these players get in hopes of getting a little upfront cash and with this

upfront cash allegedly Rojas is claiming that Yasser Mendez told him hey that big chunk of money you just got give it to me invested in my baseball academy Baseball Academy, I'll make you better dividends and I'll also pay your taxes." And of course, everyone listening is like, well, that sounds like not a smart idea. And of course, you know, not only were Rojas underpaid on taxes, his taxes were not paid is what he alleges in the grievance, but also he lost out on all this money and had a hard time getting it back for quite a long time. Obviously the 4 Pro baseball academy did not make, was not an investment, a sound investment. I have Oswald Peraza that's also with the Yankees who was, is allegedly involved in the same kind of scheme where he gave this money to Mendez to invest in 4 Pro.

And really what it is a lot, Derek, is a lot of people, and we've talked about this before, this is the underbelly, like you said. This is Latin players who don't know anything, who often don't have the education, who don't come from any money, that just want someone to trust. And if you can't trust your agent who owns a baseball academy in Venezuela, who can you trust? And you know, it's important to note that Rojas was paid back. The clutch made Mendez pay back Rojas. However, Rojas and Peraza and all these guys who take out these big league advance loans, even Fernando Tatis, owe a significant amount of their pre-tax money to these places.

So this is something that you pay for, for years and years and years. Rojas has three of these agreements. He's giving 25% of his pre-tax money to these companies. Peraza also has multiple of these loans as well. You know, and there were a lot of players that I think were taken advantage of in this system. And even if they were made whole again by this money that they lent out to Yasser Mendez, and while that investigation is pending with the MLBPA, he I think remains an active agent, at least in their system.

It really begs the question of who is looking out for these players and shouldn't we be doing a better job of kind of navigating this? Because the financial literacy piece to me is such an important component and it really disproportionately affects these young players who come to this country often not speaking the language, not having anybody on their side and everybody wants a piece of that pie. Yeah, I think the story you had, I think it was maybe two weeks ago now, for Daniel Tatis Jr. suing Big League Advanced Fund for exploitative business practices.

You read a story like that and it ends up being like basically, as long as you're a big leaguer, that whole the percentage of your earnings just keeps getting pushed back for some upfront cash. And the no risk, air quotes side of that is what if the player doesn't make the big leagues, they can just take the advanced money and not pay it back. Is that is that how they get enticed into these situations? Like that's the that's the carrot. It's like, oh, it's okay if you don't make it and you just keep the money. Yes. And's such a small fraction right it's such a small fraction of money compared to what Tatisse is now what is it 340 or something million dollars so I think with these guys it becomes like an I need money for my family or for this that and the other

I don't have any the big leagues seem so far, then they get to the big leagues, they're making minimum and they realize that 25% of the minimum, now they're paying their agents, now they're paying big league advance, they're playing their clubhouse dues, they're paying their union dues. All of a sudden, a lot of their money is gone. And again, this is pre-tax money for big league advance that they are paying a percentage off of. You know, 25% of your pre-tax money, that's a lot of money. So it really is unfortunate, I think.

This is something that, you know, I think is just part of the larger scope of there needs to be more policing around all of this stuff. I wrote in that story that Yasser Mendez was allowed to be an MLB certified agent. He was also allowed to run a baseball program in Venezuela, which is probably why he was attractive to agencies, right? He had an in with these Venezuelan players. He also was allowed to be listed on MLB's website as a preferred trainer.

MLB has preferred trainers in different countries and you can look it up. And that four pro baseball academy, Yasser Mendez, is listed on MLB's site as a preferred trainer. So if I'm a young Latin kid, and I'm pretty good at baseball, And that four-pro baseball academy, Yasser Mendez, is listed on MLB site as a preferred trainer. So if I'm a young Latin kid and I'm pretty good at baseball and I'm trying to figure out who to trust, why would I not trust someone who is an agent and owns a baseball academy and who is a preferred trainer with MLB, right?

So I think that that is also kind of something that we need to look at a little closer and how is that allowed? It just seems like it should be a conflict of interest on a couple of different fronts. The number of safeguards needed to fully fix the situation. It goes even beyond having an international draft and not something that Evandrelik has written about. It was going to tossed around in the current CBA negotiations before it got tabled. And it'll probably come up again with the CBA expiring at the end of 2026. And I think even people who are deeply in the system who are trying to improve it say, you know, there will still be

various handshake agreements and things that happen behind the scenes that will continue to be nefarious, but that might be at least one step towards leveling the playing field in terms of compensation. You think about the bonus pools for international free agency, the numbers that are thrown out there for top international free agents versus what you see first round picks in the draft. Think about the gap between Jason Dominguez, his signing bonus, versus Bobby Witt Jr.'s signing bonus coming through the draft, right? And then of course, think about the differences that occur with the verbal agreements that

are happening before players are even of legal age to sign. And then teams being able to just renege on what they say. They say $2 million the first time they talk to a player, they come back and say, no, it's actually going to be a million or it's going to be $500,000. Or they back out completely. All of it's actually going to be a million or it's going to be 500,000 or they back out completely. Like all of these different scenarios continue to play out. And there was a good, really good in-depth piece. Maria Torres wrote with Ken Rosenthal all the way back in twenty twenty two already.

It feels like that piece came out yesterday looking at the Dominican Republic specifically and the corruption that is just embedded into the system that brings players eventually to the big leagues. And there's a lot of things that need to change there. Solutions that go far beyond anything we can cover on this podcast, but nonetheless, you're seeing kind of some of the end products of that, I think, right now with these lawsuits that you're seeing on the athletic more recently.

So really, really great reporting, Britt. And I would be stunned if it's the last time that we see stories like this popping up. It seems like there are many more of them to uncover. We need to go on our way out the door. Reminder, you can join our Discord, the link in the show description. Eno, cruising around Germany right now.

Actually, I think he's on his way to Germany right now. So drop him a note in the Discord. If you are in Germany and wanna meet up, I think he's on his way to Germany right now, so drop him a note in the Discord. If you are in Germany and wanna meet up, I think there's a few people trying to do a German meetup with him, maybe at a beer hall or something. That should be a lot of fun. Thanks to Britt for stepping in today. Thanks to Brian Smith for putting this episode together.

That's gonna do it for this episode of Rates and Barrels. We're back with you on Wednesday. Looking for a better place to call home? Discover Watercolor Westport by Landark Homes. Nestled in eastern Ontario cottage country, live connected to nature, neighbors, and the necessities with high-speed connectivity. This walkable, vibrant waterfront village offers shops, dining, scenic trails, a winery, and the harborfront.

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