Rates & Barrels - Playoff series without off-days, pitching on throw days, and 2021 workloads w/Jake Odorizzi

Episode Date: October 19, 2020

Eno is joined by Twins pitcher (and former Ray) Jake Odorizzi to discuss the postseason so far, the challenge of pitching without off-days, pitching in games on a ‘throw-day’, pitcher workloads in 2021, and more.  Rundown 1:40 Are You Enjoying This Postseason So Far? 2:56 How Difficult Is It to Handle Pitching Without Off-Days? 5:18 2020 Injuries & A Partial Spring Training 7:43 What Would It Be Like To Start a Game on a Throw Day? 13:05 How Much of a Workload Can You Handle in 2021? 15:51 Matching Up the Rays with the Dodgers and Braves 19:22 On Shifting & Defensive Positioning 25:21 The Aesthetics of Rays Baseball Follow Eno on Twitter: @enosarris Follow Jake on Twitter: @JakeOdorizzi Follow Britt on Twitter: @Britt_Ghiroli Follow DVR on Twitter: @DerekVanRiper E-mail: [e-mail] Subscribe to The Athletic for just $1/month: theathletic.com/ratesandbarrels Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Peloton. Forget the pressure to be crushing your workout on day one. Just start moving with the Peloton Bike, Bike Plus, Tread, Row, Guide, or App. There are thousands of classes and over 50 Peloton instructors ready to support you from the beginning. Remember, doing something is everything. Rent the Peloton Bike or Bike Plus today at onepeloton.ca slash bike slash rentals. All access memberships separate. Terms apply. Welcome to Rates and Barrels, playoff episode number 16. We hope you enjoyed Game 7 of the ALCS on Saturday night and Game 7 of the NLCS on Sunday night.

On this episode, Eno chats with Twins pitcher Jake Odorizzi to get his thoughts on a variety of things that we've seen in this postseason, including the unique challenges of pitching without off days built into the schedule, and what it's like as a starting pitcher being tasked with pitching in a game on your throw day in between starts. Before we get to the interview, just a quick few housekeeping notes to get to. First, if you're not already a subscriber to The Athletic, keeping notes to get to. First, if you're not already a subscriber to The Athletic, you can sign up for just $1 a month at theathletic.com slash rates and barrels. And if you're enjoying this podcast on a platform like Apple Podcasts that allows you to rate and review the show, we would greatly appreciate it if you took a moment to do that. We appreciate everybody who's

taking the time to leave us a rating and review. It goes a long way toward helping new listeners find the show. And now it's time for Eno's interview with Jake Odorizzi. And here I am with a twins pitcher, Jake Odorizzi. I go, I should say, are you a free agent, free agent pitcher, Jake Odorizzi? I think as of midnight after the world series. Yes. I'm not quite yet. Still twins pitcher.

Pending. Yeah. Pending. series yes i'm not quite still twins pitcher pending yeah pending um and and we just wanted to talk a little bit about um you know the postseason in general are you enjoying this postseason it's a little bit different without the fans you know and not and and not a little bit bittersweet and being you know having been a part of it and not not any longer yeah it's it is that way but it's been nice i think the format this year of games every day with no off days in between has been really nice to watch because you have a game on every single night.

And obviously before this point when it was only four teams left now, well, three, but I mean, there was like four games on a day and it was just like from noon. It was almost like a football Sunday where it's from noon until, you know, eight, nine o'clock, 10 o'clock at night. So it's been fun to watch from that standpoint. And, you know, the variety of teams that made the postseason this year got people, you know, a glimpse of other teams that they're not used to watching.

So it's been exciting for, I'm sure, a lot of teams in general, but a lot of fan bases to go along with that that maybe haven't experienced the postseason in a while. Well, you mentioned the thing every day. And that's got to be – that's the main difference, I think, maybe as a while. Well, you mentioned the thing every day. And that's got to be that's the main difference. I think maybe as a player, you're speaking as a fan, it's great. And I was like, kind of baseball overload when I was like, four or five games on a day that was pretty nuts. But when it comes to, you know, pitching in these post seasons, I, I, I think I feel for everybody. I mean, can you talk a little bit, I know,

you know, you're a starter, but can you talk a little bit about what it must be like for these relievers to, to have to pitch so often and to have to manage these staffs and just to, to manage the rest. You know, I think the Rays, I think I've actually been pretty good at it, but if Ryan Presley had gotten in the game last night for the Astros, that would have been four in a row, which seems almost unthinkable.

Yeah, the bullpen guys, I know, weren't too big of fans of this format just for that reason alone because, you know, in a regular season, we'll say 162, a regular, regular season, you know, the most they typically go would be max would be a four day and that's in like a crucial september of making the playoffs that sort of thing but three days is typically the max and you get your two days off and then you're back in there again but from this year it was so shortened that teams avoided really trying to go back to back with a lot of guys so you haven't done that all year and then the postseason rolls around and now you're

going three out of four four out of five or like you said three four days in a row that's it that's a huge difference from a body standpoint of what you're you're overloading the body because you're not built up to do it even like the regular season you could do that because that's what happens but this short season everyone's kind of being a little cautious with relievers and now they're just overloading relievers so if you don't have a deep bullpen that you can go to in just about every situation I think that's why we've seen the Rays be so successful because they have a a fully loaded bullpen that's ready to come in at the fourth inning through the ninth inning and those guys are kind of interchangeable um for the most part I mean they lean on certain guys

in certain situations. Like Castillo, he's more of their closer type. But those guys are conditioned differently. And now you bring them here and it's just amplified. So it's definitely health issues. And I think we saw that a lot during the season with just pitchers in general. When you change schedules, that's a huge implement for somebody's career potentially because you're telling them to do something completely different for this set

of circumstances when you usually have years of doing it a different way. So that's, that's a big difference, but I think those bullpen arms are going to be really looking forward to days off. They're probably hoping for blowouts one way or the other, just so like their key guys can get some rest because that's typically how you rest guys is when you have a type of offensive production day. Yeah, yeah. You know, you had an injury.

The injuries this year were up like two to three times over a normal season. You had an injury this year, but it was a finger. Was it a blister or like what was going on? So I had a blister my last start of the year. It was more of a cut on my finger. I think the seam just cut my finger more or less than anything. And then before that, I got a line drive to the chest from,

from Alex Gordon. So I started the year off with like a minor intercostal. Yeah, exactly. It wasn't the luckiest. And I had minor right intercostal strain. We got to spring training. So it was a year of,

like you said, flukiness, but we're, we're such creatures having me in particular like i use spring training in a normal year as a tool and i'm thankful that i've been able to do that so um fortunate i guess you would say because i don't have to worry about like making the team anymore so i i typically use it as a tool for preparation and not having that this year it i think you know me personally it it really changed my whole schedule of being prepared and being ready because it's hard to replicate those type outings.

It's like once spring training got shut down, it's like, okay, go home and we'll see you when we see you. But how do you create a schedule as a pitcher when you don't know when the finish line is? So I think that's the problem with how everything really started. And there were so many pitcher injuries because of that reason, I believe, just because the schedule was so unknown. And we're sitting here throwing and can't throw 100%. You kind of have to teeter around that 85% to 90% because you don't know how long you're going to be doing this. So you've got to quote the cliche of save your bullets

until the season comes up. But your body, you know, it tends to learn from that. And then you might get in the habit of working at 90%. And then you go 100, and that extra 100 puts you over the edge of injury. But just my theory. I don't know how much validity there is to it. But it seems to me like it makes sense. It lines up with a lot of the research right now about how to build up a workload.

And, you know, they talk about having the sort of acute to chronic ratio. There's this idea that, like, in order to have this acute stress game day, you need to build up chronic stress. You need to, you know, you need to do all that other throwing to sort of build a baseline. I'm trying to run. And if I miss three days in a row for running, it's a setback, you know, I'm, I kind of, I can't run as far. I can't run as fast. So I think there's always a relationship with how much work you're doing

at what level and what you can do on game day. But then you throw in the mix this crazy schedule, and we haven't seen too much of it yet, but we saw some of it. What would it be like for you to start in a Major League postseason game on a throw day? to start in the major league postseason game on a on a throw day so a typical schedule would be you know you off the game time obviously i try to get there like three four hours for the game all that jazz and do my routine everything but that's also if you're fortunate at home you have your own clubhouse none of these teams have their home club i think a little bit unique so you're

you're developing a you know i sure, between travel trunks and everything and those clubhouses, they have the same stuff, but it's a new layout. So the first time you have a little bit of a, all right, I need to figure out where I need to be for this, this, this, and this. But I think relatively starting purposes, it's relatively normal. It's just like a road game, essentially. For us, it's a little bit more of a schedule like you said you have your time you know what you need to do you know what time first

pitches and you know when you're going to be pitching so starters have a little bit easier of a schedule when it comes to you know the postseason but in this year you need more than two starters and i think that's what the big difference is from a lot of teams is but i but i mean i mean from the perspective of like on a throw day like a like a like a bullpen day you know what i mean like not your actual start day like so what would be different from that like a regular start day oh oh i'm sorry so you'd be pitching out of the bullpen the day like like you've seen some of the starters go down there and come in yeah okay yeah like and so we're talking about like we're talking about short rest but we're also talking about like

one or two days rest we're not talking about one or two days rest. We're not even talking about three days rest. This is more like you're going to throw, what, like 20 pitches or something or 30 pitches at max instead of what's a regular bullpen for you. I'm about 20 pitches, give or take a few, depending on how things are going, what I'm working on, intensity levels.

Yeah, what's the intensity level? What's the percentage on that? It's not 100. I can tell you that much. So I'll throw about 70, 75%, just enough to get your mechanics in line and everything like that. And depending on what you're working on,

you might alter it a bit. But we're seeing all these guys coming out of the bullpen ready to go. And I think adrenaline comes into play with a lot of that, but teams have been pretty good about not overusing those guys when it comes to, when they come into the game. I think for the most part,

it's exciting for like sports casters and, you know, writers and all that type of stuff. When you see like last night, Tyler Glasson was warming up in the ninth inning and we know what kind of stuff he has. And you're like, okay okay i want to see this guy come out of the bullpen for one inning empty the tank and you know it's exciting exactly you're gonna see max max velo and you know true he could have came in throw like 97 and people like oh what's wrong like

well this guy just threw 100 pitches right one two days ago and he's on two days rest this is his bullpen day so the stuff might not be the same so it's a difficult thing as a as a starter because when i was in the bullpen for the playoff series against the astros which i just wasn't built up long enough to be a starter with what had happened to me this year but so i'm sitting out there and it's just an awkward thing as a starter because you're not used to the bullpen life. You're not used to the phone ringing and it's like, okay, you got next inning or you got, yeah, so I got hot three times in our second game thinking I'm sitting there like ready to go in. And I'm like, this is so different for me. I'm ready to go. And now you're telling me to sit down. Like, okay, now I got to sit back down again and do it all over again. It's just a different animal down there.

And when you're not. Yeah. How much, how much effort did you expend getting hot three times? I wonder about this because as, as like, this is not tracked anywhere. We can't see this teams track it, but we can't see this from the outside. Be like, oh, this reliever got hot in these games didn't get in you know how how much of a fitness issue is that if you let's say you pitch two games you get hot in the third and then you pitch the fourth like like what is that equivalent

to like how tired were you after getting hot three times was it like you'd you'd actually pitched or I think I ended up throwing about close to 60 pitches down there just from the starting and stopping because they gave me extra time as a starter wanting me to be fully ready. So the first time I was fully hot, ready to go, and then I figured what happened in the game, and they said, sit down, but don't sit down all the way. I was like, I don't really know what that means,

but I'll keep moving around and doing this and doing that. So truth be told, there was a lot ofnment because it was like okay here we go it's a playoff so i'm ready to go i want to get out there i didn't really notice too much of a difference to be quite honest with you but i know my time in tampa when they use bullpen guys they monitor the up downs during the game so if there was i forget i forget what the quote but just for this conversation sake say two up downs and not getting in the game that counts as a day of pitching so they would count that as maybe getting in the game so they would back up their workload so i don't remember if that was the exact yeah like scenario for his number of pitches whatever may

be but there's something that they monitor that says you know if you got up twice and don't get in the game then you're down the next day or you know whatever whatever it may be but there's something that teams use to monitor those workloads because that happens all the time like that was that's the epitome of a bullpen life yeah yeah so let's be clear when it comes to shipping internationally can i provide trade documents electronically the answer is. Okay, but what about estimating duties and taxes on my shipments? How do I find all... Also FedEx. Impressive. Is there a regulatory specialist I can ask about? FedEx. Oh, but let's say that... FedEx. What? FedEx. Thanks. No more questions. Always your answer for international shipping.Ex where now meets next well I just I

feel really badly for all pitchers because I feel like you know we had this really injury-filled year and then now um you know everyone's sort of you talk about building and building no one's built up for 200 innings next year you know and that's been happening less and less anyway but even 180 or whatever like everyone pitched like 40 and 50 innings this year so I wondered like uh just to you personally like how many innings do you think you could pitch next year I honestly I think I can be completely normal next year just coming at that point in my career now where I know like my offseason plan my offseason plan gets me ready every year to go a full a full season so I have that you know kind of down to a science now after all the years and that's a lot of the work is being prepared using

the off-season as a huge preparation for the season because when I was younger it was more like okay my body feels good I can just you know go lift weights i'll be ready to i'll be ready to go play catch in december and be ready to go in february and all that type of stuff and it worked because you're young and like your body recovers so much quicker but you know when i reached probably 26 or 27 that's when i really started get like focusing on an off-season program of i need to do my mobility stuff i need to work on mechanics stuff I do all my drills off the mound so the familiarity point is there um weighted balls start mixing in that I'd you know get the velo going earlier on so when you get ready for spring training you're fully you're closer to

being ready than you would be showing up and it's like okay I got three weeks or four weeks to get ready but um I'm trying to be as fully prepared when i get to spring training so me personally i think next year would be completely normal for me just with the preparation that i put in and being prepared for the next season but a lot of teams that maybe guys are under like team control they're going to treat them completely differently than they would a free agent acquisition or a guy that's already on a contract so yeah um you know that's just the reality of it we all know how how that happens and why it happens so teams will be a little more probably careful with certain guys but i think that's the important point of having veterans on your team is you need to lean on those guys and know what you're going to get from those guys because you know you're going to you know

maybe restrict some other people yeah well it sounds like uh just having a real beginning date would be like having that. It's an anchor, right? It's like a thing that everyone point. Yeah, yeah. You got to have that just to do all of your. OK, I'm going to be at this percent here, this percent here and and be 100 percent that day. So hopefully, hopefully, you know, things kind of normalize in our world and you have something like that.

I think there's there's going to be a little bit more certainty about next season. We made it through this season. It seemed like, you know, that was touch and go for a while. But, you know, so we've got these Rays, your old Rays, have made it to the World Series. We don't yet know the other participant. But, you know, when you look at a team like that, that's kind of built on elite run prevention,

it seems like versus scoring. And yet your team had the Bomba squad and like, you know, we could hit home runs with the best of them. Does either sort of approach speak to you more? Like, do you think, you know, the numbers are kind of unclear. It seems like when I've looked that hitting is a little bit more important than pitching in the postseason, but defense is also pretty important in the postseason. So just speaking as a fan or an analyst, you know, how do you see this for the Rays? You know, do you see them as the favorite

against either team? I would see them as a favorite over the Braves. I would see them equal to probably even money against the Dodgers. I think a lot of people from the beginning of the season picked Rays-Dodgers as like a World Series matchup. So obviously that's kind of what people view. But I like what you said about defense. I think defense is the X factor of the postseason because we're all enamored by the great pitching performance

or an offensive outburst. But there's so many points in games as a starting pitcher in general, just being a starting pitcher. Little plays that do or don't get made swing the game dramatically. And obviously in the postseason, games are even more swung because of the emotions and the momentum that it brings. And I think what we've seen from Tampa is like the elite defense has shortened games for them to match up with the lack of offense in a lot of instances,

because offensively they haven't exactly crushed the ball at any point. They've won the game that they win. They get, you know, Randy hits a home run early, and then it goes for the next seven innings. They usually tack on another one and they're pitching and defensive, you know, Randy hits a home run early, and then it goes for the next seven innings. They usually tack on another one, and they're pitching and defensive. You know, they carry them there. So that's kind of what we've seen from them. And where it flips, like, offensively, we'll just use the twins.

Like, we have a great offense, but great offenses can stumble. And they're not going to show up every single game. So if you're not refined on the other parts of your game, that makes it look even worse because if your offense struggles and, you know, we pitched really good in the post season, to be quite honest, those series against the Astros, we threw the ball really well, but when you, when we don't score, it, it sucks, you know, it's, it's unfortunate and and it happens. Two games, and you're ousted.

But defense is the one thing that I don't think has much of a rollercoaster effect. If you're a good defensive team, you're a good defensive team. You show up, you make plays, that sort of thing. If you're a good offensive team, your bats might be quiet that night. It happens to literally everybody. But defense is the one constant I view in the postseason as a separator because somebody's going to have a great pitching performance there's going to be offense at certain points but the defense if you can be consistent from game one to seven

and eliminate those outs shorten the game down and not give extra outs away that's where they separate themselves and obviously like so their pitching staff is built in a very unique way and they've had a lot of success with it so you you pair those two together, and like you said, it's run prevention. You need to push across a few. But once you get the lead, if you're that team, you have to feel confident with where you're at because you know that you've got guys making plays left and right and a good staff and bullpen to carry it out.

Yeah, there's one interesting thing I spotted, though, about the Rays. Willie Adonis was rated this year. There's this stat cast stat called odds above average. And, I mean, it's pretty good. It has, like, starting position and, like, kind of breaks things down into components and first step and all this stuff. It's pretty advanced. It had Adamas as the worst fielder in baseball among qualified infielders.

That doesn't really fit with my eyes, but it also speaks, I think a little bit to one thing that the Rays are kind of brilliant at, I think, which is positioning. I think we've seen like a lot of plays this year in this post season where there's like a rocket and Adamas is just is just standing right there you know and it just like hits him in the chest almost and um i wonder you know that i think the rays were more aggressive than most teams when it comes to shifting right handers um and they do like four man outfields and stuff like that um when when your team does something weird positioning wise i mean they they

tell you something like just pitch like, we're not doing anything weird back here, you know? Or does it still creep in and unconsciously you're like, I've got a lot of defenders over there. I should throw the ball here or whatever, you know? Like, do you try not to think about what's happening behind you sometimes? Yeah, I don't exactly look back there. Like, the only time that you ever really take a peek is when they do four-man outfield.

We've done it a handful of times in Minnesota for me. We started doing it in Tampa my last year there, so I was kind of familiar with it. Then obviously Rocco coming over kind of brought it from Tampa as well. But those are the only ones that really you know where you guys are at because you have to call time and you've got to let your guy get all the way out there and then you're really going to survey but um it's basically pitched the same way because it's it's going off of the pitcher more than anything else so

it's you can't exactly say do the opposite of what you do because we're going to shift but we're shifting off of what you do you know like that's it exactly so it would like counteract itself if you did something different but yeah positioning is a huge factor like the ball at the middle now is almost an out every single time it seems like we're back in the day that's a single every day of the week and then you get the weak ground ball the 20 hopper to the right side and that turns into a single sometimes a double if they're fast enough so the the shift has really changed the game you know the numbers say it's for the better, and I believe that to be true because the rockets that get hit, that's what it's eliminating.

And the dinkers, you kind of have to live with. And I think teams are okay living with that. But they've been doing that for a long time. They're kind of the innovators of the shift. My time there, they started doing it, and we were the most shift-heavy team. And now literally every team is shift i think like straight up now the straight up positioning is the shift like nobody does that anymore like that's straight up is the abnormal part of the game now so the shift is normal straight up is not normal there are pitchers that don't like the shift or you know

i think that it's it's sort of like, you, you've talked a little bit about like what you remember, like, you know, when you're, you're talking about the post-season, we remember these big, you know, what you remember. I feel like the shift is one of those things where you remember the time the ball went to the normal spot and you're like, God, why wasn't the shortstop over there? You know? But you don't remember all the times that they gobble up what would be a single at the middle or whatever um have you have you ever encountered that that sort of feeling of like sort of being anti-shift you know and oh yeah i mean as a starting pitcher that's exactly

the mindset of it like i've tried to temper it down because i know i've been helped with the shift probably more times than i've been hurt by it it just seems the times where you're hurt by it is like an important spot. And it's like, uh, you know, it's a lefty heavy shift and you saw him off inside and it squeaks right past the third, like right past the base,

but there's nobody on that side. And you're like, okay, well I did what I needed to do and I didn't get rewarded for it. But then at the same time you get rewarded for maybe a missed spot. So it takes away the, the bad bad but the bad just they they they stick out more because typically it's like a weak contact or a broken

bat or something you feel good as a pitcher of when you like hear that off the bat like okay that wasn't hit very well crap nobody's there but um yeah the big the big one i think that the rays do well is outfield shifting like they have a a guy in center and KK who covers a vast, he's like, you know, I've been fortunate. My last two surf fielders have been KK and Byron Buxton. Like it doesn't get too much better than those two guys.

So we have a guy you're like, I'll buy you some. Exactly. Exactly. So you have those two guys. I'll just talk to them in the same breath as you know, how, what,

how they do it. You have a guy that covers the gaps of right and left so that takes the pressure off the right fielder and the left fielder so you can focus them more line oriented because you know that guy is going to get to those balls in right center or left center so you give him more ground and you shade him to one side depending on what the pull side is and then you have your other night defenders you can pinch the line a little bit more which i think we're starting to see in a lot of baseball games is left fielders, right fielders are standing on the line, and the guy hits one down the line.

You're like, all right, that's a double on TV, and he's standing right there. That's happening so much more. Might have been part of that big Manny Margot catch, right? Yeah, exactly. How does he get there? He theoretically shouldn't be in position to make that play. It should be like a full sprint for him to get there,

and then there's no way he'd have hit that cement wall if he would have jumped like he did. That's a prime example. That probably defensively is saving two outs as opposed to just making a play. That's a separator. You give those guys the focus on the lines and you let

the KKs and Byron Bucks of the world do what they do and run freely and make plays like it's going on of style in the gaps. And you have yourself a very finely tuned outfield. Plus the Rays outfielders, they move pretty well to begin with as well. So they cover a lot of ground on that. But that's what they do. They knew what they needed to do to be a good defensive team,

and they put the personnel in place to do it. One thing about the Rays that's interesting, there was a piece that suggested about the Rays that's interesting, there was a piece that, you know, suggested that the Rays aesthetic wasn't pleasing and that it was even maybe even bad for baseball because you're talking about, you know, openers and taking starters out early and focusing on the bullpen, traditionally things that could be cheaper for a team. You know, they're all about sort of financial efficiency. But I kind of want to push back a little bit because when I watch Rays baseball, I enjoy it.

And I, you know, maybe I'm a pitching dork, but they have great, really, you know, diverse arm slots, you know, just like crazy pitchers that are really good at what they do in different places. I mean, I enjoy watching race baseball. Is there, is there anything that's complicated for you about watching race baseball? I think the thing that's complicated for me as like, you know, somebody who's been there and been through the ringer of, all right, you get to a certain dollar figure, you're out the door type of thing. I kind of, I don't pride

myself on it, but I feel like I'm one of the one out of thing yeah i kind of i don't pride myself on it but i feel like i'm one of the one outliers of they traded me and they didn't get the better end of the deal so that's that's like a huge feather in my cap i guess so um yeah they seem to win every trade exactly so i i broke that streak i guess for for them but uh you know it was bound to happen at some point but the thing the thing with with their model and i think to where it gets the pushback and as a player i can understand it a little bit is you know all these guys that you see in their bullpen a lot of people may or may not have heard them like that uh thompson fairbanks like all these guys are they they've been in the mind

leagues and they bring them up and they're unique man and they're they're really good and then to a certain point then it's like okay now we need to turn that over so they get the best out of those guys for that period of time where they're making the least amount of money and they flip them over and then where do they go from there like what's their career like after that like what if they got used too much there and then their career was a little bit different after they got out of there you know that's obviously you can't it's hard to really look in the future and like you'd have to go back and like look at all these players like okay what happened after what happened after that sort of thing so that's my one thing as a player is they're not abusing these guys i'm not saying that in the least bit but it's like they're gonna get the most out of their young guys when

they're least expensive and then as it goes up that's when the turnover happens and then what's the career point from there from those guys and what if there's you know i mean we all know how the game is of you just excuse me usage and miles on your arm and that sort of thing but you know a lot of that seems like a structural problem in baseball you know it's uh you know it's something that needs to be addressed and we won't get you in trouble with the union or anything but uh that seems like seems like they've just figured out how to win. When I asked Cash, he was like, no, these players are awesome. Look at them. And then he also said, but the point is to win games,

and we've done that pretty well. So it's kind of like this is the system they were given, right? Exactly. They've worked within the rules of what they need to do and all that type of stuff. But it's just one of those things of, you know, you're maximizing their arms and their uses. All these young guys, like they're young guys, they're young guys that like to turn over

there. Since I've left in 17 was my last year there. There's only two guys left on the team from when I was there. Like that's a, that's a crazy amount of turnover in a short amount of time. And like the model, I understand the model model but they've been doing that model for you know however long and i think it has to line up at the right time like you have to have the right farm system of players to come up you have to make the right trades to influence your roster and then when it all lines up you're in this position that you are right now probably similar

to 08 when they got there and you know 08 the first time on the world series so it's um it's a it's a good model it just has to line up perfectly i in my opinion to continually make a world series so it's um it's a it's a good model it just has to line up perfectly i in my opinion to continually make a world series trip because if they're going to keep turning over guys you don't know how well the turnover goes from from time to time and you have to keep hitting on all that turnover exactly exactly that's yeah and that's what they've been able to do for a long time until until me but um yeah so like i said i understand it i completely i'm on i i can see the pros and cons from every angle of it and as a team like they're running it in a winning fashion and they're doing it with lower cost guys because they're all younger guys you

just need those younger guys to step up and not you know take steps backwards and they've been able to do that if they take a step backwards it seems like there's another guy waiting in the wings that steps up and is fills the spot precisely. So like I said, I see it both ways and I can't really, you know, I've done what they need to do. I've been there. I've benefited from it and you know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't change anything that I did while I was there. So. Cool. Cool. Well, we've got the world series coming up. It will, will,

will the series will, will baseball be better with off days? It'll be different. It'll be like, all right, where's the game at today? And then there's an off day mix and you feel like you're deprived. But either way, after today, we're going to get two off day, one off day at least. So it'll be a good lead-in to it. But I should start to finish seven game series, but you know, it'll be,

uh, it'll be fun to watch either way. I think either way, we're going to get a good matchup. You're going to get a really high Braves team or a really defty Dodgers team that's been in the world series every year in the last, it seems like.

So whatever matchup it is with the Rays, I think it's going to be a good one to watch. All right. Well, thanks for, thanks for coming on Jake. And, uh, we'll, uh, we'll look forward to seeing where you land next year. And hopefully we won't be talking to you next year because you'll be pitching in the postseason.

That'd be great. Thanks for having me on. Thanks. Thanks for listening to this episode of Rates and Barrels. And thank you again to Jake Odorizzi for taking the time to visit with Eno and share your insight with us. Jake Odorizzi for taking the time to visit with Eno and share your insight with us. Eno, Britt, and I are back with you with a World Series preview on Monday night.