Rates & Barrels - Replacing Injured Stars, Chasing Average & An Opportunity in KC

Episode Date: June 27, 2022

Eno and DVR discuss the challenge of replacing a star in the wake of Bryce Harper's thumb injury, Alejandro Kirk as an 'unusual' player having a breakout season, the surprising lack of second-half leagues, a messy roster management situation in Pittsburgh, when to chase (and when to punt) batting average, and a promotion Kansas City on the heels of a small trade with Seattle.  Rundown -- The Beginning of the Episode (Music) -- Replacing Bryce Harper (and Other Stars) -- Alejandro Kirk: Top-15 Position Player?! -- An Increasingly Crowded Pittsburgh Depth Chart -- Where Are the Second-Half Drafts? -- Chasing Batting Average; Who to Target? -- Breaking News! Carlos Santana to Seattle + Vinnie Pasquantino Promoted Follow Eno on Twitter: @enosarris Follow DVR on Twitter: @DerekVanRiper e-mail: [e-mail] Subscribe to The Athletic at $1/month for the first six months: theathletic.com/ratesandbarrels Watch the show on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/RatesBarrels Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to Rates and Barrels, it's Monday, June 27th, Derek Van Ryper here with Eno Saris back on the regular schedule, at least until the holiday next week, of course, July 4th, one week from today. So we probably are recording an episode that day. Maybe we'll do one before then. That will be gritty. Release it that day. And drinking beer.

Seems like a good plan. I have to jump in on that with you. The focus today is going to be on a few different things, replacing stars in the wake of Bryce Harper's injury over the weekend. We're going to talk about Alejandro Kirk and a case for not really fitting the mold. Alejandro Kirk has been really good so far this year, and there's some regrets on my part

because I have him in exactly zero leagues this season. We're going to talk about the absence of second half league, something that has existed in the past, but does not seem to exist anymore. And we've got a few mailbag questions we're going to try and get to as well. So the first question today, if you are someone who has Bryce Harper on your team, or if you've been in a situation in the last few weeks where you've lost one of the other very good or star level players that has been taken down by injury, Mookie Betts, probably another good example based on what he has been doing.

What is your best path to replace that player? Obviously, in some leagues, a lot of leagues, you can go out and try and make a trade. And even if you can't get a similarly projected player, you can at least get a better upgrade than you can from the waiver wire. But there's sort of two different problems here. There's the sure you can trade go down that path problem and then there's the oh you can't trade you're playing an NFBC or you're in a league where people just are difficult to trade with how do you try and survive a very lengthy absence from one of the very best hitters

in the player pool yeah it's a it's a really difficult one because if you're like me and you've been using a little bit of your free agency auction money you know every week you don't have the big hammer so if there is a big new player that comes up you won't have you know the 200 300 you need to do to drop on to get one of those guys, the big new call-up. And in fact, to be honest, looking around, I feel like there might be one guy, and that's Corbin Carroll. And I don't know that there are a ton of other bat prospects that are knocking on the door that haven't come up yet.

I mean, I guess like a Francisco Alvarez for the Mets, there's a possibility he's up this year. And, you know, I've heard some really good things recently about, you know, him covering holes that he had in the past and showing big, big league power, just, you know, sort of 60-70 raw power type reports. So that's exciting. But he's also a catcher, and he might not hit.

Both of them might not hit. Even as good as Corbin Carroll is, he might not hit right off the bat. And asking him to replace Bryce Harper is asking for a lot. So I don't know that I see any really obvious hitters that I'd be waiting to drop my hammer on to kind of replace Harper that way. So I think the only really answer is to just work the wire and try to do those little good pickups here and there

and find the right name for this week. The only problem with that, too, is that you're now down a roster spot because are you going to drop Bryce Harper to get an extra spot in no IL leagues? I would at least wait to hear some more about the prognosis. Yeah, I would want more details before dropping him but I think it's trending that way because we're still talking about five to six weeks at the shorter end, most likely. And given that we're already halfway or nearly halfway through the season, it becomes increasingly difficult to manage without a player like this.

If I heard it was displaced, that's the big thing I'm waiting for. A non-displaced fracture i think you can do on that lower end um even four to six if it's not displaced um you know there's you just don't have to you don't do surgery you know if it's displaced you have to do surgery you have to cut in there and once you cut into something then there's just every the recovery time is always longer because you're you're you're just messing around in there. But if it's non-displaced, then he can wear a soft cast

and it could be a matter of weeks as opposed to a matter of months. So that's what I'd be listening for because in order to do the drip, drip, drip strategy of a little bit here, a little bit there, you kind of need that roster spot. Because what you're going to try and do is pick up two players that could replace Harper. strategy of a little bit here a little bit there you kind of need that roster spot right because now what you're going to try and do is pick up two players that could replace harper and maybe

one has a good week and maybe start sort of semi-streaming these guys you know platooning two guys or sort of have like an open door where you got one you'd like a little bit the other one didn't turn out as good so let's try replacing him with another guy and that's the drip drip drip strategy i think it's doing everything digging in the corners that you might be doing already in your league it's looking at the schedule oh this team has a series and coors and this guy who's not actually rostered is going to be playing all those games in colorado this week and i'm going to stream this hitter I think it comes down to a situation more like that. I think you're right as far as Corbin Carroll being probably the last really big impact prospect we're going to see this year on the position player side. Miguel Vargas might be their name.

Maybe he gets a shot with the Dodgers. I'd be a little more worried about everyday playing time with him, whereas I feel like if Carroll comes up, they're just clearing a spot for him in Arizona. Whereas I feel like if Carroll comes up, they're just clearing a spot for him in Arizona. But just from a hypothetical standpoint, when you lose a star for a lengthy period of time, if you had the money in your in-season pickup budget, are you more likely to throw the Hail Mary at that prospect, knowing that they are generally not good in-season investments dollar for dollar for fab are you more likely to chase that player with a larger production hole that you're trying to fill yeah i think so i mean because you've you've already if you've already put yourself in the position to have that hammer and you have a large amount of free agency auction budget the only decision really is pitcher or hitter and i think the decision has just been made for you you know what i mean like you could hold it all for max meyer when he comes up and maybe that was your thought maybe i'll maybe i'm holding this hammer

for max meyer uh and maybe max meyer's worth worth a hammer but uh now that you've lost harper sorry max meyer i gotta you know i gotta throw this at Corbin Carroll or somebody else. In leagues where you can make trades, I think it's probably finding one or two upgrades in other spots that help make up the ground. In Keeper Dynasty leagues, it's different because you can give up long-term value for the short-term upgrade. In Redraft leagues, it becomes really difficult. value for the short-term upgrade. In redraft leagues, it becomes really difficult. Unless you have an excess of something else, finding someone

that wants to trade with you and give you back something that will actually help you can be a bit of a challenge. I was looking at the rest of the season projections from the BATX and just sorting by WOBA just to kind of get a catch-all feel. I mean, Bryce Harper had the fourth highest projected WOBA, tied for third for the rest of the season. It's Trout,

Tatis, Vlad Jr. and Harper are tied. Juan Soto's up there too Judge Alvarez of course so I mean you're going to the very top of the board and the first name as I started to go down the list the first name I saw as a player we talked about on Friday Will Smith the first that was the first name I saw that surprised me at how high he was and it's justoba. And all the things we were talking about with Will Smith last week, I think, hold up here. Because if you think about a team where one catcher league, two catcher league, you're not getting enough production from your catcher spot or your second catcher spot. If you could make a trade for Will Smith right now, that could be a massive upgrade. could be a massive upgrade it could be almost enough of an upgrade in that roster spot to offset a lot of what you're going to lose going from harper to the first outfielder on your bench or someone you're streaming off the wire it's not going to fully get you there that's a really

interesting thing look around your team at somewhere else where you're massively under right because when i look at especially and i think this is even more true in like a 10 team league because will smith is probably more available in a 10-team league, right? In a 15-team league, two catcher, they're like, no, I'm not giving you Will Smith, you know what I mean? So in this one-team league, I'm looking at the wire and I'm saying, you know what, I can't do Harper, but I can find a replacement-level outfielder pretty easily,

because I'm looking at our 10-team league with five outfielders and a decent bench, and I'm seeing Brandon Nimmo, Mark Canna, Andrew McCutcheon, Mike Yastrzemski, Randall Gritchick and no not one of them is ever going to do it for me but Randall Gritchick at home for you know four games out of seven now I'm into him right Mike Yastrzemski on the road maybe Andrew McCutcheon at home for, you know, especially if there's a whole week at home and I can just put him in for a week. Yeah, I like that.

Mark Canna away from home. I like him a little bit more, you know? So, you know, you can pitch and you can sort of put together a Frankenstein Harper by streaming those guys, maybe. But to really do yourself better is like, a Frankenstein Harper by streaming those guys maybe. But to really do yourself better is like maybe I'm really terrible at second base and I just need to go get a second baseman, go find a second baseman I can buy. And maybe that's more attainable.

Maybe Will Smith more attainable. So I like that idea. I think your other angle is to find some players where the projections maybe haven't caught up to a new level of production. So that could be digging down to a Taylor Ward or a current breakout player that just is at a completely new level. Again, it kind of goes back to buying high, but buying high on Taylor Ward is not at all like trading for someone projected like a Bryce Harper. So maybe you end up being wildly right about a player that most of the league is relatively skeptical about. I think that's another path that you have to consider.

Yeah, and I'm not suggesting that you should believe last 30-day splits, but doing the last 30-day split, you can start to see some players that might be regressing back to uh something you believe in so trent grisham amazingly signs of life last 30 days 240 batting average five homers and two steals that's way better than his overall line and if you're just looking at his overall line you wouldn't even consider him in that group of potential outfielders that you might use to replace. So I do think sometimes looking at the last 30 days changes your mind a little bit about a player. Lane Thomas is only rostered in 12%

of leagues. He's hitting 272 with six homers over his last month. It's going to heat up in his home park. And it was always projected to be pretty good. So those are just two players that are kind of playing already in the middle of regressing to the mean in a positive way, however you want to put that, progressing to the mean. Yeah, I think the other part of this is attacking a few categories. Look at the standings and say, OK, I can't get all of what Harper does, a few categories look at the standings and say okay i can't get all of what harper does but in what categories are the things that harper was going to do most closely contested in this league right now and saying oh okay well rbis and and home runs are really tight right now so at least

i'm going to prioritize going out and trading for john carlos stanton and that that's going to be somewhat close in those categories at least or i I'm going to pick up Jesus Sanchez, who's not going to steal me bases or hit for the same batting average, but maybe he's got the power ability. Or maybe I'm going to put Jesus Sanchez in my rotation of outfielders when he's away from home to try and capitalize on some homers. So, yeah, that's definitely a good idea. And then here's a name that's really interesting for you

if you decide that batting average is safe or puntable. Joey Gallo. Oof, yeah. I mean, that's... If you just really... I mean, you're talking about Hail Marys and ideas like that. I mean, Joey Gallo is showing up on everybody's wire now, and people are getting really tired of him.

The weirdest thing about Joey Gallo is that his barrel rate is almost exactly the same as it was last year. And every projection system says he's going to hit 20 more homers. I know I'm just saying it's weird because it's like, I don't believe it, but maybe I should. Max Muncy is the other player that projections wise shows up really high. I just think in his case, it's been explained for a couple of months now. He's just not healthy. He had the elbow injury. I don't I just don't think he's right. So you can't, in that case, trust the project projection for a reason that is well known. Another catcher, for some reason, a guy that's kind of standing out to me right now is Alejandro Kirk because he pops in the Woba projections.

He's right up there with Reese Hoskins and George Springer, Matt Olson, Kyle Tucker in terms of his projected Woba the rest of the way from the Bat X. He's been very good so far this season. He's top 15 in Fangraph's war entering play on Monday with a 322, 409, 523 line, 10 homers, plenty of runs, plenty of RBIs, playing time obviously now trending to the everyday sort of level. Aside from the fact I don't have him anywhere, and we'll talk more about that later, I start thinking about Alejandro Kirk, and I just get excited about the possibilities that other players who don't fit the mold of what scouts and baseball analysts are looking for, how they can significantly exceed expectations.

You know, I think there's a lot of times when we're looking at players and evaluating talent, we're looking at what players can do and then dismissing them because of a few things they don't do. Or in the case of Kirk, perhaps he's been dismissed at times because he's short and stocky like very stocky and also maybe some more legitimate concerns about his defense right like is he a great defensive catcher yeah but I almost wonder if if the position he played dismissed him to the point where people just totally lost sight of how much he could hit because remember when Alejandro Kirk first showed up in the big leagues, the stack cast numbers were really good in a very small sample, right? If you blind resume it, like if you just gave someone that information

and they didn't know anything about Alejandro Kirk. Yeah, like I have some shares because of the good contact rate in the barrel. Right. Like if you just looked at that, you'd say, oh, wow, I'm really interested in this guy. This guy seems like he can hit and guys that hit like this play somewhere even if the defense at catcher or even first base or a corner outfield spot even if it's not where it needs to be so i mean you could you could go way back to jose altuve as another player that just he's just he's unique and the story goes that several times Altuve showed up at the Astros camp and was just turned away because he was too small.

And look how good Jose Altuve is. And again, we're talking about a very unique sort of outlier. But I just wonder how often players get pushed into a certain path because of physical characteristics and then we miss out on players who are actually extraordinary players because they do these other things really really well yeah i mean i want to some extent i wonder if uh this is the o'neill cruz thing in in in pittsburgh is a little bit like that where it's just like we're we're talking constantly about how tall he is and how big he is and how he can't be a shortstop and it's like who cares like put him out there like he's super super exciting it's a little bit different it's

like uh it's a it's a it's like oh what a burden to be like this massive athletic talent compared to like alondra Kirk. It's like, oh yeah, yeah. I'm totally like O'Neal Cruz. Just like, just,

I've been overlooked just like O'Neal Cruz. What are you talking about? You know, but, but, but you know, there, there are sort of physical characteristics that we sometimes get all wrapped

up in that, that don't help us. And, and sometimes our eyes deceive us. I was watching some Jack Swinsky and I don't think us. And sometimes our eyes deceive us. I was watching some Jack Sawinski, and I don't think that he hit my eyes as much of an athlete as he is. You know what I mean?

He's super fast, throws the ball really hard, and hits the ball really hard. I mean, he is an athlete of the top regard. This has come up with Hunter Pence, I think, in the past too. Just a player that does things in a way that doesn't look the way you would draw it up. Like, this is what a player should look like when he throws or swings the bat or runs the bases, right? So this has been applied to players in every sport for forever.

It's not new. I just think it's really interesting that Kirk has been this good of a hitter and I think my reservations for Kirk specifically were more about playing time paths on a crowded team where they already had some guys that have defensive limitations and then because of the other catching depth they had too, I was just worried there wasn't

going to be a max playing time volume. Obviously, that has played out in a way where he has just shown, no, you're going to play me and someone else is going to sit. Obviously, that has played out in a way where he has just shown, no, you're going to play me and someone else is going to sit. So a lesson to be learned for me in this case. I'm glad you brought up the Pirates because they're one of many teams that has a bit of a pile of injuries right now. And as they get players back, they're going to make some decisions. They're going to make some decisions about young players that I think we're interested in.

I don't think O'Neal Cruz is in danger of being shuttled back to AAA quickly when someone gets healthy. I think if he goes back to AAA, it's because of a prolonged stretch of a really high K rate. And I'm not suggesting that that's what's going to happen. I'm suggesting that that's really the only way they would send him down. But other players up and down the roster might not be nearly as safe because they're not necessarily a clear part of the pirates long-term future yeah uh there was a charrington i think was on the radio today uh there's a mike persak p-e-r-s-a-k uh was a writer that was uh summing up what charrington said. And this is what he said.

Charrington says, the Pirates believe there could be developmental value for some rookies in going back to AAA when IO guys return. Reemphasizes that the healthier and deeper the Pirates are, the better chance they have to put their best 13 position players on the active roster. So, you know, the way that I see this

is there's probably two camps. One camp is, listen, we're building for the future. Let's put the best young players out there and see which one of these guys will be around when we are good again. Right? So let's put Bly Madras out there. You know, if you want to take a long shot on someone to replace Harper, there's a guy with power and speed that's hitting the ball hard and makes good contact. Who knows what will happen with him. If I, I think, I think if I was one of the pirates, I would, uh, rather see what he has to give me than, uh, what Josh Van Meter can give the team. Um, uh, but also what Ben Gamble can maybe give the team. However, the other camp is,

let's never give up any value that we might have. Let's keep as much value on the roster and in the organization as we can. And so if you're thinking about it that way, then you're saying, okay, I'm going to demote Madras or Cal Mitchell because if I play Ben Gamble, who's a free agent at the end of the season, if I play him now in sort of an everyday world, I might be able to convince another team that he is a viable third outfielder, replacement, you know, like convince the Phillies even to to trade for ben gammill for for the next two months or um you know to convince some other team that this is a this is a good player they want to trade for then i get a new asset into the organization from get ben gammill and then i

can call madras or mitchell back up so uh you know we were just discussing mitchell and madras uh the two of us and i was saying i prefer madras because of the fact that he hits the ball hard and he makes good contact. But you were mentioning that Mitchell was a high draft pick, and maybe they believe there's more to him. Madras is older, four years older, three years older. So there may be a decision coming. You know, if you do the, if you do kind

of the roster math that has been implied by this statement, there's going to be a decision coming on someone like you Chang, who I think will be, there would be a DFA. You know, I think he's a possibility for DFA. I think Park has been playing well. Hoy Park has been playing well, but I think he could be demoted. The best players that could be demoted though are Diego Castillo, Bly Madras, and Cal Mitchell. I think one to two of those players will be demoted once everyone's back. Because if you think about it, they're getting back Gamal, they're getting back Man Meter, Kevin newman so those are three guys that are coming back that they don't need to make room for yeah i mean newman's a great defensive shortstop but i'm just not confident he's ever going to hit like he did was that 2019 the year of the rabbit ball

could make sense for sending him down i would just think about he's 28 already. I would try to trade him to the Angels and say, hey, now you've got a great defensive shortstop. At least you're not giving anything up there. And they kind of have some options already. Maybe there's some other team that could use someone like that. I would definitely call the Angels, yeah. I mean, this guy has a little bit more bat to him

than somebody like Andrew Velasquez. But I think this is just a good exercise to go through. The Pirates are the example we're using on the show today, but I think you can kind of look and see for non-contending teams that are trying to break in young talent, at least for this month before we get to the trade deadline, it's still tough to know if they're going to play the younger, more interesting player or if they're going to take advantage of having some guys that have options left, send them back to AAA, and then wait until August to actually bring them back.

If you're thinking about them in NL-only leagues or in Keeper and Dynasty leagues, it creates a lot of different opportunities to eventually end up with some good long-term value. Because I think once you flip the calendar to August, a lot of these younger guys are going to be a little bit safer. But up and down their lineup, most of their regulars have minor league options remaining. The only regular in the Pirates lineup that they can't option down without exposing him to waivers is Daniel Vogelbach. They could probably get away with putting him on waivers. He might refuse the assignment if he has the ability to do that, but they have more flexibility on that roster

than you realize. And if you're clinging on to a young player with an opportunity there, it might disappear somewhat unexpectedly. Yeah. I picked up Madras in some FBC leagues this week and I did so on a very cheap level, single digits.

and I did so on a very cheap level, single digits. And the reason that I wouldn't invest more than that is because he might be back down very soon. And it's just something that I have to consider as much as I do like certain aspects of his production. I think it's also interesting when you look at a team like the Diamondbacks. We were just talking about, you know, would you be super interested in Corbin Carroll

when he comes up? You know, what are the Diamondbacks we're just talking about you know would you be super interested in corbin carroll when he comes up um you know what are the diamondbacks going to do and when i uh when i look at this diamondbacks team i don't actually seem room for corbin carroll right now because i like they may be shopping david peralta um and he is a free agent at the end of the season but i don't think you just drop David Peralta you know what I mean you're not just going to DFA David Peralta he's 10% better than the average somebody might have some use for him at the trade deadline

then you've got Alec Thomas in center and that means that Dalton Varsha is a fourth outfielder slash catcher which means that you don't even if you DFA Jordan Luplo I don't see a starting gig. You only bring up Corbin Carroll if you have a starting gig for him.

So even if you DFA Jordan Luplo, you'd have to be moving Pavin Smith to DH, which I don't think is great for the organization long-term because he has some defensive value, right? Yeah, and they're playing Buddy Kennedy a bit right now too. So I think they they do have a spot even if they hold peralta but i think moving peralta the trade deadline would make it obvious that there's a clear outfield spot that is carol's every single day

instead of you know floating players to the dh spot so i'm a little more optimistic about it i think than than you are but their incentive to call him up is what? After the trade deadline. Yes, there might be a room for Corbin Carroll. But if you, I see him picking him up now and you might be waiting four more weeks before he gets the chance or five more weeks before he actually gets the call. And then at that point in August,

what's their incentive to bring him up then? Right. Yeah. And then they could bring up some no name that they wanted, that they, you know some somebody who's popped in their organization in the minor leagues where they're just like hey we want to see what this guy's got you know corbin carroll's the future yeah yeah yeah but like we need to see

if this like 26 year old you know bly madras you know like we need to see if this guy's legit or not so many teams have guys most teams have guys like that in their system that they believe in uh jake mccarthy might be a guy like that for arizona maybe i don't know i think he's former first rounder at least so or supplemental first rounder yeah so all that's to say like if we 189 wrc plus in in triple a this year okay i understand if you have bench space why you'd pick up carol now for a lot less than he'll go for if he is to get called up but at the same time space realize you might be holding for a month and maybe all season without actually getting something back it's just a really tough situation to to read into i spent uh i spent

on the pitching side i just i i bought louis patino everywhere and got him from $9 to $22. So different amounts. I got like four or five shares. That's a little bit different, though, because returning from the IL, you at least have a sense of the timing of it, right? Patino is close. It's like one or two more rehab starts, and then he's going to come up. However, I still have the risk that I just spent much of money on a guy who's the

six starter slash bolt guy in Tampa. Possible. But I was intrigued at the beginning of the season and I remain intrigued now. So I think given how difficult it's been to find high volume, great pitchers in many leagues, I would take the chance on Patino for a couple of weeks and see. Nicola Dolo probably fits into that too. I think he's got one more rehab assignment.

And by this time next week, he could be back as a member of that Reds rotation. It's been a bit of a longer, longer recovery for him than expected. But I also think that's just a reminder. Don't, do not take the timetables that are first thrown out there at face value. A lot of times they are on the aggressive side.

So especially when talking about a young pitcher, teams tend to err more on the side of caution. I wanted to bring this up because someone asked about it, but second half leagues, I thought there would be second half leagues running at the NFBC and on fan tracks and digging around a little bit today. I don't see anybody actually running them. Doesn't mean they don't exist anywhere. It just means the places I'm looking for them don't have them. And I find that to be surprising because we all love draft season. Most of us in the podcast writing side of this business play in 10, 12, 15 plus leagues. A lot of people listening play in at least a couple. And I think if you have, especially only play in one league, you reach june or july and your team is buried and you know like this is not your year keeper league or not you just know

you're not going to win this year wouldn't you want to go through the process of having a second chance to play another partial season i mean it's not it's not like it's not fun we played a 60 game season back in 2020 and i think we were just grateful to have anything so to choose that by design for the second half to go through the exercise of evaluating players again and getting a chance to roster players maybe that you didn't have on your your previous season-long teams like all of that seems like a good thing for us as a collective group of players but it also seems like it makes business sense for leagues to be out there for people to play yeah yeah and like uh looking at uh our league uh there's a there's a decent correlation between moves made and and places in the standing so

there's definitely you know that uh oh league, I forgot about that league. It just, when you go through, even if you have, if you have multiple leagues, if you go through the process of like, you know, Oh, I have to do my FAB. Well, you start with the one that you're doing well in, or the most money's on. And then you have the least amount of time and attention for that last league where you're in last place and there's no money or whatever. Um, I think it's, I think it would be a great idea to have this especially like um maybe you don't want to add the another one where you have to do lineups but what about second half drafting holes that would work you know you you there's a there's

a fascinating sort of tension between uh recency bias and uh maybe these new levels you're talking about maybe some players that have reached new levels or uh players that um look like they should be better in the future and should be are projected to be better that you just don't buy uh you know like the max muncy i think where you're just like i just don't think he's healthy so there's a there's a there's like a different set of uh parameters it's a slightly different game and yet you could do the draft and draft and hold and you wouldn't have to do all the responsibilities of setting the lineup every day and doing free agency auctioning. So I think that would be a good way to give people like a little second juice. And if we did it, if we made July 4th, like the marker for it, people have off,

you know, like, you know, it's like July 4th weekend. It's like, people have off. It's like July 4th weekend. It's like, oh, yeah, that's second draft season. Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, whatever those four days are, everything leading up to start the league on the Tuesday after the 4th. And it's too early for fantasy football preparation, unless you're Jake Seeley, probably. Well, it's too early for fantasy football for a lot of people but there's also i think what fantasy football's done better

is they've pushed the best ball season up over time i don't think the i don't think the broader community's interest in fantasy football has followed in a way that like where the two lines are even but it has led to some growth right so the the diehards are all over it and they always have been they've the diehards will start drafting for the next season after the current one begins like i do that for baseball so i get it there's always some some amount of demand for let's go let's play right now but there is i think some significant growth over time in doing drafts in the summer. Now, for example, I play in a fantasy football league with a bunch of friends that I grew up with. I don't think any of them have touched a fantasy football best ball yet this summer,

even though I know there are companies out there that have been offering them and they're populating plenty of drafts. I see people tweeting about them. It's not just Jake. Jake's not on Jake Island on this one. So I just think that you should look at that and say, okay, yeah, baseball's never football. We're not trying to make baseball

more like fantasy football from the how it's played perspective, but creating more events and more opportunities to analyze players and build teams seems like a good thing. So keep people invested in your sport while your sport's still playing. Right.

I mean, this doesn't really fall on Major League Baseball, but it's just another way to keep people engaged with your product if you happen to run leagues. I'm not trying to call out the NFPC or fan tracks. Obviously, if there was more demand in this when they did it before, they'd still be doing it. So something's a little bit off in terms of how much interest

there was and you know whether or not it was worth doing i think there is a little bit of a focus on betting um and one thing that's interesting is when you sort of look at the rakes um you look at what the the house takes in dfs because i think dfs was supposed to be in a way a thing that countered this right DFS you can make a new lineup every night that's like that's the tagline right make a new lineup every night right um but you lose um you lose heavy players when you take like a 16 percent rake which is what some of the big houses are doing. So, you know, if I'm a big,

if I'm a person that could maybe bet or maybe do DFS, and I see that the rake, you know, is 16% there, and the VIG is like nine, what is it? It's like nine. Less than 16. Nine cents on the dollar, I think. Yeah.

I think it's nine in betting. It's a big difference. It's math. But I still think it's nine in betting it's a big difference but i still think there's overlap in these spaces in terms of people that listen to this show and play season long fantasy there's some interest in betting for sure i don't think it's as much overlap for baseball as it is for other sports i feel like the the overlap in football betting on a football game is a lot different than betting on a baseball game yeah Yeah, because there's one game this week and you can think about it all week.

It's so much less granular. Yeah. I love baseball. I don't like betting on baseball as much. It's not fun. If you said, here's $1,000, you have to go bet on sports with it. I would wait for football season and bet it on football games. I'd probably bet on basketball, yeah.

Or yeah, basketball season too. But like hockey's like this too. I like hockey. I like watching hockey. Love watching baseball. Not as interested in betting on them. It is crazy because you're thinking about park factors

and humidors and, you know, how does that pitchers, you know, pitches match up and how do those hitters, how does that lineup match up? That demand exists. There are people that want that. I'm just not one of them. And I think I'm not necessarily alone in thinking that 12 week or 15 week

partial seasons are fun. So fantasy represents a different way for you to kind of be engaged in the action, but not on that, and in a granular fashion, but not in the all the way, you know, what that might take to really bet, to bet well. I just think making predictions

over longer periods of time is more enjoyable to me, by a lot, because I think, I feel, I feel that the process plays out in a way that's a little bit more fair.

Obviously, we're in a season like any other season where star players get hurt. I saw, I think it was Jeff Passan or a bunch of other national writers were tweeting about all the star players that are hurt. That happens every year. You could look at the ADP every single year in fantasy baseball and run through the first 20 players and find that half a dozen of them at least missed significant time. Turner's been healthy. Ramirez has significant time. Like Turner's been healthy. Ramirez has been healthy. Soto's been healthy. But go down to Harper, hurt badly right now.

Luis Robert missed some time earlier this season. Betts hurt right now. Buehler hurt right now. Acuna missed time at the beginning of the season. Albies hurt badly. Woodruff has missed some time. Scherzer hurt badly. That's normal.

And I think playing for 12,15 weeks you know we all deal with that we deal with our share of bumps and bruises on our team we have to replace a star usually at some point unless we catch really good fortune that to me is a more enjoyable game than who's going to win this game tonight is this player going to homer tonight is this guy going to strike out five or more batters tonight at least that last question is at least driving at something that i feel i don't know i feel is a little bit more predictable based on a series of factors that are reasonably easy to digest and understand yeah no i i get it i get it i've joked on this thing about how uh over the course of one player's career you can be right and wrong about them a

million different times or how like you know i was right to put shane mcclanahan in the top 10 and i was wrong to not put him in the top four it's like but i was right but i was right a month from now maybe you'll be originally right depending on how things go between now and then that it's those longer snapshots that i think are just the most enjoyable to me. So I'm surprised that there aren't more in-season variations of what looks like a season-long fantasy baseball league, yet Yahoo has their stuff still up and running.

You can do an offline draft, or you can do auto-pick. That doesn't help me. I can't find enjoyment in that. I don't want to run a draft in a spreadsheet. Just getting enough people together for a regular draft is bad enough let's get 13 of our friends and then let's make a google sheet and then let's

take a eight hour block of time to figure out how to draft all our rosters and then uh you volunteer person over there why don't you import all the rosters into yahoo for us like that's not why don't you import all the rosters into yahoo for us like that's not that's not gonna work had on their thing uh a draft and hold you know two hour draft or whatever just get on the system they'd probably they'd probably get money from me i think they'd get they'd get some money from some people but again i i trust that they they realize that the demand wasn't high enough to justify time that goes into making sure it runs so that's why they don't do it i'm just bummed that's not a a bigger part of of the conversation and maybe people out there listening are nodding along saying yeah i'd like to play in a second half league or maybe people listening are saying

this is the worst topic you guys have had in three months what are you what are you on like draft season's draft season because of when it happens and because it's a full season, not because it's a partial season. But it's so exciting. We can't have a little mini draft season? I said this before. The Chandler Park leagues from five-ish years ago, those were monthly leagues with a salary cap on them. That was really fun.

The prices would come out, I think, the last week of the month before you would build your team for the next month it'd run for four weeks there was an overall component individual component and you just go on and do it again i think that concept is something that i really liked it's just it's hard to get enough people to play it i guess to make it viable for for all parties involved got a few mailbag questions to get to here. I had a question about chasing batting average because we have talked a lot on this show about the ball and the humidor effects and what that's doing to power in particular. But Daniel was curious how we would decide if it's worth the fight for batting average points or to punt and double down on some low average guys.

And then what kinds of players we might be targeting if we were going to try and make up ground in the batting average category. It's rough going, man. I mean, you have to think about it. We're almost a third of the way through the season. So if you have been doing something for a third, you have all this ballast, right? You have the third of the two months that you've been doing,

you've been hitting at 250, right? Or you've been hitting at 235 or whatever it is then you have to if you want to say make it from 240 to 250 uh then you have to do two you have to do twice like you have twice as long um but you already have this one-third ballast right so like in order to get to 250 you actually have to hit like a two 60, two 85. Well, we're,

yeah, we're almost, we're closing on the midway point in the season. I think we're over 70 games, two months of two 40 and you're trying to get to two 60 at the end or two 50 at the end. Yeah. I think you have to, I think you have to,

you have to do two 55, two 60. So if we're talking about even, yeah, like if, if we're right in the middle of the season yes if you were 240 for the first half and you were 260 for the second half you'd end up at 250 so it changes what you need to do to make up that ground but so now you have a chance of maybe doing 256 257 but but i think people give up on batting average a lot timing as far as punting it i mean we're far enough in the season if you're really lagging an average and you're not particularly close, like you kind of punted it a bit on draft day and everything has come out the way you expected it to, I don't know if this is a good time to try and rally back. adds that layer of difficulty. That was implied in Daniel's question. It's just if the ball is not flying the same way, how can we trust that the guys that hit the ball the opposite way

or guys that do things that ordinarily portend a high batting average, how do we know they're going to come through given these massive disparities in this run environment compared to previous ones? Yeah, I just did a quick search of XBA on Fangraph, on fan graphs. They've got the, they've got the stat cast leaderboard. Um, and to your point, like, uh, Ryan Mountcastle, for example, has a 319 XBA and a 271 batting average. That's a top 10 XBA, uh, and the lowest batting average among the top 10 players in that. Right. So you could say, Oh say, oh, that's what you're looking for.

You're looking for a guy who has all the components together to hit for a high average and has a lower average than the guys around him. That's what you want. How much of that is related to old Baltimore park factors? Fair question. How much of that is related to the ball in a way that hasn't been adjusted for yet. So,

uh, I mean, I, there's certain things I like about Mountcastle, but I don't necessarily think of him as a three 19 hitter the rest of the way. The, you know,

using this same method, uh, two guys that pop pop are Jose Bray and Kyle Tucker. I believe in those guys. I like bone. I believe in, I believe in, uh, he could hit for a good average going forward. But Max Kepler's on here, and I know his batted ball spray has changed a little bit, and there are some aspects that are more pro batting average.

But given all that, he's hitting.244, and he's always hit for a low average. I'm just not buying that he's going to hit 303 the rest of the season um or in and you know xpa isn't predictive on that level anyway so if i was telling somebody to uh look for a type of player i would just say look for a player that doesn't strike out 20 of the time so you know the k percentage is less than 20% and has power, you know, has more than zero power. So team players like that are Alex Verdugo, Michael Brantley, Jeff McNeil, you know, Arnauto. But, you know, we're talking about acquirable players. So you seem more inclined to trade for the guys that are already hitting for average as opposed to trading for the guys

that are underperforming their average. Yes. I was just using a straight, like here are guys that have a good strikeout rate and some power. I mean, Verdugo's only hitting.256, so that's somebody who's underperforming his average. Yeah, him, but Brantley and then McNeil,

those are guys that, if you said project their average for the rest of the season, I'd drop about a.290 on all of them with maybe even slightly higher numbers on others. Well, here's a name, Alex Bregman. Bregman is a player that I'm sneaky wrong about right now. 234 for him and maybe even Uli Gurriel. 223 for him.

And there's Max Kepler just staring at me again. Corey Seager came up on the show maybe two or so weeks ago now. He makes sense as someone that's going to hit for average the rest of the way in addition to providing power and runs and runs and rbis doesn't steal bases never really has probably never will he makes sense to me as someone that's going to be just fine in that category and even well above the typical player so he would make sense i i actually think the

better way to dig out of the hole in batting average if you're you're not totally buried in the category and you want to try and make a run at it, I think you're looking for the high variance mashers that have underperformed their batting averages so far. Guys that scald the ball, but also because of their profiles can go surprisingly quiet in batting average. Christian Walker, a frequent player discussed on this show, he actually kind of makes sense to me as someone that you would trade for if you're trying to make up ground in batting average because he will help you in the other categories regardless you're going to get homers you're going to get runs you're going to get rbis and there's a decent chance that he's undervalued because his average is low but he might actually be just fine in batting average for you the rest of the way i

think finding a few guys like that might actually be a low-key way to make a bit of an impact in that category without having to pay a premium for it in the case of a jeff mcneil type or someone who actually is hitting for average right now so it's a little bit like a kyle schwarber situation where like you know he's hitting 219 but he's fourth in the league in barrel rate he's got an expected batting average 251 like you could expect him to to hit got an expected batting average of.251. Like, you'd expect him to hit for a better batting average going forward just because of how hard he hits the ball. Yeah.

Let me see. You know, Patrick Wisdom is popping on this list of barrel rate with low batting average that I'm doing right now, but his strikeout rate is so aggressive that I don't know about him. But yeah, Walker doesn't strike out that much, barrels a lot, and has a 206 average. That's a good one. Would you put Luke Voigt on that list? I think so.

We talked about him a little bit on the waiver episode this weekend. I think both Voigt and Fran Mil Reyes, who came up a month or so ago, they're probably not going to help you a lot in that category, but they're probably not as bad as people make them out to be. And sometimes that buying opportunity is just a way to get in and do pretty well. I mean, Luke Voight hit.277 in the shortened season. He hit.263 his first season, first full season with the Yankees back in 2019 with the Rabbit Ball. And I don't think he's a 220, 230 guy, but the projections seem to think that's what he is. So there's just some interesting players like that that you wouldn't think of them as great sources of batting average.

But they're probably better sources of batting average than the projections are pointing to. And I think when you can find those players, you get a pretty nice buying opportunity. Cole Calhoun kind of pops for me this way. You know, he's got the 23rd best barrel rate in baseball this year. Would not have guessed that. He's hitting 240. I think he's also safer, you know,

because I think Kosh Warber could hit 219 for the whole season. That's why I was saying look for the low K rates and the OK ISOs. Those are the guys that should hit for batting average. You know, I don't know. Sometimes these high variance masters just have a whole season where they hit for a 55% fly ball rate and hit 219, you know, like Joey Gallo. But Cole Calhoun has a higher ceiling because i do actually think 235 to 250 is kind of you know 235 240 i think that's his batting average floor you know his xba is 270 he's changed some things at the plate and they're starting to

to to mesh for him so i think he could hit 270 going forward, 280. So I just think he's a really interesting one because compared to a Wisdom or Schwarber or even a Voight, I think he has a higher batting average floor. Yeah, the suggestion to trade for Bregman was actually in Daniel's question too. Kirk came up as another name. Ahmed Rosario came up as another name. But I think Bregman,

part of the reason why I'm so wrong about Bregman, at least the way I think I'm wrong about Bregman, I could be wrong about why I'm wrong about Bregman too. It's so fun to be wrong on multiple levels like that. I think part of it is that I see the low K rate and I think that that automatically gives them a higher floor than we've seen to this point and i think that might be a little bit off the projections are finally pointing to numbers below most of what he's done when he's been healthy throughout his career right he was in the 280 to 290 range from 2017 to 2019 he was at 270 back in 2021 and all the projections are under that for him now. So the type of contact he makes and being so pull dependent for the power in particular

has just been one of those things where I think, was it Bregman or was it someone else that you said is maybe like a peak Brian Dozier because of how he gets to that power. The downside to peak Brian Dozier is something people might remember. There was a lot more variance than there should have been

relative to other players with some of those other underlying skills. Again, things like strikeout rate and just the basic ways we try to construct who a player is. So I think that's probably where I've erred a little bit when it comes to my expectations for Alex Bregman

simply being too high. Yeah, and I think what's happening with him as well is that that pull aspect of his game that he does rely on for the power, he's very much a high and tight and yank it for a homer kind of hitter. I think he's been shifted more over time. It's a little hard to just see it when you pull up the fan graphs thing because it's in raw numbers, but he's been shifted

more times this year than he was last year already. And last year he had 400 plate appearances, and he's got 296 this year. So that's just what happens. You pull the ball 50% of the time, you start getting really shifted. And that's probably robbing some batting average for him. Yeah. So a lot to think about throughout this part of our conversation.

He seems so safe as a hitter, dude. Yes, and I know even with the Dozier thing, he seems safer. Didn't Dozier strike out more? Yes, he did. At the middle,

late 20s, early 30s, he was striking out about 20% of the time. Before late, late twenties, early thirties, he was striking on about 20% of the time before that he was just under 20%. He also ran more though too. So Dozier had that other way of, of making up fantasy value. Why did this peak come so fast? Dude, was it all injury?

Yeah, he crashed pretty hard. In the middle of the, in the middle of the juice ball era too you would have thought strange to uh to say the least but thanks a lot for that question daniel i had a question here that came in from tom about ryan mcmahon i don't think we've talked about ryan mcmahon all season and it was oh no that was i was mountcastle i was talking about her there mcmahon like what's wrong with Ryan McMahon, if anything?

I looked at the profile before we started recording. I don't see anything in that profile, at least at a glance, that gives me doubts about him in the second half of the season. I'm actually very surprised we're not getting more power from him. K-rates and walk rates are in line with career norms. Barrel rate is actually up from where it was last year, up slightly from where it's been for his entire career.

I don't see the flaw. What is wrong with Ryan McMahon? I mean, I think he generally strikes out too much, but 27% in this league is fine. It's just, for some reason, the barrels are not turning into homers. He's not an extreme pool guy. Maybe he's going opp extreme pool guy maybe he's uh going

oppo with too many barrels but i think he's a fine pickup yeah the shallow league guy that might have become available someone you could trade for and i think because of the park also might bring more batting average than you would expect for a player with that k rate and with that profile so it could be another sneaky player that sort of fits into the let's make up some ground and average while we're also buying glow on a player for some potential power too yeah i've been throwing him in some of my dynasty leagues trade offers recently and no nibbles yet so it's always hard to get a true under you know under value buy everyone's uh everyone wants to. No, I see that too.

I see his barrel rate too, dude. But we got deet deet deet deet deet deet deet deet deet breaking news, breaking news, hot off the wire. Deet deet deet deet deet. The Seattle Mariners have acquired Carlos Santana for cash considerations and Wyatt Mills. No, and cash considerations for right-hander Wyatt Mills and right-hander William Fleming. Okay, so I guess he becomes the Mariners' regular first baseman.

They were having a little bit of an issue there. Ty France just got hurt, so maybe it's diagnosed the grade 2 flexor strain that's probably that's a six to eight weeks yeah yeah i would guess he's not a pitcher but um it was a little bit similar to the max muncie injury i guess this is a better outcome but it was similar to that and you know when your hand the the runner sort of and the ball and the hand all were in the wrong place at the wrong time um so i guess santana is their first baseman now trying to trying to make up that loss production from thai france um i don't know i think santana could be almost like a dfa or uh release relegated to the bench if fr comes back healthy, though. I think the real news here, though, is Vinny Pasquantino,

Italian beef, getting the call-up for the Royals. And I think it's interesting that he comes up on a day. Has that been confirmed? I think I have a confirmation on that. Pasquantino got, yeah, MLB Pipeline. Royals have called up their number three prospect, Vinny Pasquantino. Vinny, Vinny, Vinny. so they're calling him the italian nightmare clay link calls him italian beef and then other people call him italian breakfast we're gonna have to hash this out so the breakfast thing

probably just is like a that's butler it's the billy butler connection because he's a billy butler same org yeah i could see italian beef uh he's listed at 245 Same org. Yeah. I could see Italian beef. He's listed at 245, 6'4", 245. I mean, if they put a listing of 245 on you, you could be as heavy as 275, 280. Well, I'm glad that Pasquantino's call-up overlaps the day where I kind of brought up the Alejandro Kirk just hits, and because his dimensions on the back of a baseball

card are unusual, maybe people undervalue him. I wonder if that could have happened with Pasquintino along the way. I know he had pretty, pretty much like a legit breakout in the minors last year. Like he reached a new level last season, but he hit at the lower levels. Like he was good.

He was good. Kind of everywhere previously, right? He was 2019. It was, it was rookie ball. He was old for rookie ball. That's what it comes back to.

He was 21 at rookie ball in 2019, lost the 2020 season like everyone else did. I'm looking at pictures of him now. I don't know if I'm getting the beef, man. He looks good. That's great. If the beef was supposed to be in reference to his midsection, at least.

I don't know. I just think people like Italian beef sandwiches. Ah, yeah. That's good. And I just think people like Italian beef sandwiches. Ah, yeah, that's good. And also, uh, his power stats are beefy combined with way nice strikeout rates.

Very exciting, very exciting, uh, statistical line for him. I'm, I'm very intrigued to see what he does. The question I had for you though, is that when we first looked at him,

I think he was a prospect of the week selection once upon a time. I think Vinny Pasquantino's minor league numbers looked a lot like Nathaniel Lowe's minor league numbers. Part of the problem with Lowe when he first broke in with the Rays is that he didn't really have a spot that was clearly his own

and he was an up-and-down guy. I don't think that's as much of a concern with the Royals, especially where they're at right now and where the Rays were at when Lowe first broke in. But I do think I want to see, okay, now that he's outside of the PCL environments, Omaha itself, not your high altitude, amazing place to hit the way that a lot of other places

around that league can be, what does the underlying power look like in terms of max exit v low and barrels like that's going to be fascinating to see i think this is a profile it's definitely worth taking a chance on and if nathaniel low is the floor that's a relevant corner guy in a 15 team mixed league with occasional 12 team value i think there's a chance that pasquantino actually has clearly more raw power that is absolutely on the table here. Think about it in the context of the Harper replacement.

This looks like a guy who is going to have a really good nice strikeout rate and a really nice ISO, and so therefore probably a really nice batting average. So if you wanted to replace everything but the stolen base, now put it in the context of the thing you said a home run hammer in terms of the free agency auction are you going to go to two three hundred dollars on on vinnie the good thing is in many leagues you've got seven days you get to see him for seven days that's right you get a peek You get a peek at some of those numbers. I realize he's been picked up in a few leagues over the last month

or so as an imminent call-up. We knew this was going to happen eventually. It was a question of when exactly and how. Were they going to DFA Carlos Santana in Kansas City? Well, it turned out someone else had an injury and they were able to move him off the roster that way. Pasquitito's got three steals at AAA. Might even get you a handful

of bags. Maybe. I don't know. Wouldn't bank on it. Just sayingitito's got three steals at AAA. Might even get you a handful of bags. Maybe. I don't know. Wouldn't bank on it. Just saying. He's a non-zero contributor. You know what this reminds me of a little bit too is looking at Jordan numbers before he came up.

I mean, doesn't it? It's almost a near match. I'm going to take a trip back to Jordan's minor league numbers. I also remember holding the hammer for Jordan Alvarez

when he came up in 2019 and using it and being very happy. He had 313 with 27 homers in his first league. And then in the minor leagues, you're looking at Jordan Alvarez actually struck out a little bit more than Vinny. Yeah, and I think with Jordan Alvarez, I mean, that was the 2019 year of the rabbit ball at AAA also. Obviously a great player. I'm saying... He had 50 homers that year combined. Yeah, what part of the power being 23 homers in 56 games,

what percentage of those home runs were the result of the ball? Well, a non-negligible number of them probably the result of the ball. But still... Amazing player. Still leaves a lot of other ones that he did, right? That's why, okay. But that's why I like WRC Plus because it's in the appropriate context. 170 WRC Plus at AAA before he debuted.

Yeah, 144 for Pasquantino this year. Yeah, and what was it for Alvarez was? 170. 170. So better. But something similar about it for me. I'm into Vinny. If I had the hammer, I would really consider using it.

What do you think Nate Lowe's AAA WRC Plus was in 2019? Oh, no. Shut up. Shut up. Just throw a number out there. What do you think it was? 145. Yeah, 141.

All right. Lots of walks. Struck out a little more than Vinny has so far this year. I think that's the thing about Vinny Pasquantino. His ISO didn't reach the same heights, right? It's more like low 200s with a 266 high. Whereas Vinny has

been above 200 easily, lowest of 250, and he's had now basically 300 ISOs twice. Are we saying Vinny Pasquantino is definitely worth a pickup down to at least 12 team leagues? Is this a minor league profile you'd buy into even in leagues more shallow than that?

I mean, the 3-0 show league is a 10-team league. Should he be rostered and possibly used in that league? I'm not going to pick him up right this minute. So if you're racing to do that while we're talking, it's fine. I'm doing it unreal i hope someone else beat you to him i'm doing it while i'm talking to you um i actually it's a little bit it's a little bit harder i could drop a nico horner um but nico horn has been playing really well and he's a middle infielder and i just lost ozzy al. So I'm not going to necessarily do it right now,

but yeah, I think, I think he's got to get picked up in every league. All right. So by the time we get to the end of this week, when the waiver wire did beat us. Yes. You deserve that.

Who's who's Steven third place. I think that's Steve Berman. Oh, nice. You got him. Good. I'm glad. Oh, nice. You got him. Good. I'm glad. I'm glad someone else got him

because I don't think it would have been right for you while I was piloting the show to just weasel on in there and make that move. First come, first serve. This is our PSA against first come, first serve. But in that particular league, I think it actually works. Works just fine most of the time. All right, with you though pasquantino i think there's enough there there could be average plenty of power run production it could all be there and

i think guys that strike out as little as pasquantino does can come up and have a pretty high level of success right away yeah 100 and and you just don't have any of the questions like we had with the corbin carroll it's, who are you holding the hammer for otherwise? And, you know, if it's Francisco Alvarez, he's a catcher, and the Mets, you know, have catchers. They're not going to go to a rookie catcher unless there's, I think, a catastrophic injury into one of their regular catchers, right? And if you're talking Corbin Carroll, they've actually got players in there.

So who else are you waiting on? You know, this is probably who you're waiting on and unless there's an objection from mr vinnie pasquantino himself i'm still pushing italian beef as the best of the nicknames but it's really his call at this point and uh hopefully hopefully we'll see him have a nice productive first week because look if i can't have him if i can't get him on my teams i want someone else to just empty the fab piggy bank that's the next best thing to me getting a player that i want if you've got a question for a future episode you can email us rates and barrels at the athletic.com you can also ask the question in the comment section underneath this video on youtube

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