Rates & Barrels - Rooting for Chaos, Changes in San Diego, & Britt's St. Louis Victory Lap

Episode Date: September 24, 2021

Eno, Britt & DVR make their plea for chaos in a bid to join Team Entropy for the final 10 days of the 2021 season, before discussing the changes brewing in San Diego in addition the still bright outlook for roster coming back in 2022. After a lengthy attempt to avoid the subject, Eno & DVR eat crow in the wake of Britt's Cardinals prediction, and lament the likelihood of future playoff expansion. Follow Eno on Twitter: @enosarris Follow Britt on Twitter: @Britt_Ghiroli Follow DVR on Twitter: @DerekVanRiper e-mail: [e-mail] Subscribe to the Rates & Barrels YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/RatesBarrels Subscribe to The Athletic at 50% off for the first year: theathletic.com/ratesandbarrels Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to Raids and Barrels presented by Topps. Check out Topps Project 70 celebrating 70 years of Topps baseball cards. of Topps Baseball Cards. It is Friday, September 24th. Derek Van Riper, you know, Saris, Britt Droli, if you are watching us on YouTube, be sure to hit that like button. That's how we're lined up left to right today.

I think it's just the order in which people connected. I don't really put us in an order, and sometimes when I move you around on the screen, it gives people a headache, so I'm not going to do that. I'll let everyone stay

exactly where they are right now. But on this episode... Stuck in the middle with you. Yeah, you know, stuck right in the middle of the Rates and Barrels sandwich today. Must be Friday if I'm already singing. Oh, yeah. Early Friday. Yep.

We're going to join Jay Jaffe on Team Entropy and make our pleas for absolute chaos over the final 10 days of this season because chaos is fun. absolute chaos over the final 10 days of this season because chaos is fun. We are going to give some lessons in eating crow in the wake of Brits, very on point call about the St. Louis Cardinals who are almost mathematically confirmed to be a playoff team now. And when we snickered at the very idea of that just a couple of weeks ago, you know, we thought we had the upper hand in getting that prediction,

right? So we are wrong and we will dig into why. We'll also take a look at the Padres, the 2022 version of the Padres. Who's coming back? What moves are they going to have to make? Obviously, some changes already taking place in that organization. And we'll probably get to Cardgate a little bit, too, just because that was a big story earlier this week. I'm glad it's faded so it is appropriately lower in the rundown for today just to break the fourth wall there for a moment. But let's begin with our bid to join Team Entropy.

Eno, I know you stayed up all night designing some elaborate scenarios for how we could see Game 163s and maybe even a Game 164, which is just diabolical. I can't believe you went that far with this. No, it's actually pretty easy because the Red Sox, Yankees, and Blue Jays are all in a three-game sandwich. So if the Red Sox go four and five, the Yankees go six and three, and the Blue Jays go seven and two, they the Blue Jays go seven and two.

They're all tied. They're all tied for the two wildcard spots. So I don't think you solve that with one game. I don't think you can. I think you need more than one game to break a three-way tie. And those are all really good teams. I would take the extra two games. I know it would be of consternation for local media. Every beat writer in America hates you right now.

You've been suggesting this kind of scenario. The players too, baby. Have you guys ever covered a team that's wildcard? That's a wildcard helpful? I have never even covered a team. You know, you've never been a beat writer either, right? I have not really. But I mean, I'm located in a place

where they have won the wildcards and even gone all the way. Let me tell you. Not the same. Let me tell you how stressful it is covering a team that may make the wildcard one, may make the wildcard two, may not make the playoffs at all.

make the wildcard one, may make the wildcard two, may not make the playoffs at all. It becomes this all-consuming fact of your life where you're just not really sure. You have no idea where you're going. I remember a few years ago, that must have been a while ago because it was the Orioles in 2012,

finished in New York. They had a three-city road trip to end the season and you weren't sure where they were going after that. So you had to pack for whatever climate. It might toronto it might be texas like it might be nowhere and i just remember like shoving all these random outfits into into my suitcase and um trying to get a last minute flight to um i believe it was toronto that year and it they had gone to toronto already that's international you're trying to book international travel. And now add in some COVID action where it's like, do I have my negative tests and my vax card?

And that's a regular 162. I can't imagine the 163, 164 because it's not a series, right? Those would be different teams, you're saying. There's even a Visa thing with toronto right because like i remember when i went there for pitch talks they told me to say i was on vacation yes yeah there's a there's a definitely something and then also the person who earns their money this time of year is the team travel secretary right because i guarantee you they've got blocks for every scenario going. They're able to quickly cancel. They've got potential flights.

So they would really hate games 163 and 164. They absolutely probably hate you more than beat writers. Because they just have so many people to figure out. When you get into postseason, families want to go. It's not just the players. So it is just an interesting look for people who may not realize what that kind of thing entails when you get to these potential clinchers. I also wonder how well attended they are. I mean, you'd assume that they'd be really well attended because they're like a playoff game. But they're so kind of, like you're saying, unplanned.

they're so kind of like you're saying unplanned, like you have none of that element of somebody living like an hour and a half out of the stadium and planning to be at the ballpark, September 26th and like getting a hotel room or, or, you know, you know, getting a sitter or whatever it is. You know what I mean? Like you have none of that. It can only be people that have that day free and are really into it. And don't, you know, don't care about any sort of COVID concerns. I feel like they may not sell out.

It'd be crazy to have a game 164 and it may not sell out. Well, Toronto today added, Toronto only has 15,000 right now. Allowed? Did you guys see that they allowed? Right now they are hoping to get approval from the government there to allow more because if they host a wild card game, most of the advantage of a wild card game is to have the crowd into it right it's also to not travel and stuff but to have the home crowd and so i think toronto is thinking and hoping that they can get more people in the stadium if

they do host it because i've been there i I've been there for playoff games. Because of the dome, it is so loud because the noise has nowhere to go. So there really is a home field advantage to some regard. They announced that this morning. Yeah. Well, best of luck to all of the teams involved. The way that these things happen is always the bullpen, as I see it. If the Red Sox do go 3-6 or 4-5 or whatever they need to do, I would point at the bullpen. I think that's

maybe one of their biggest weaknesses at this point. Yes, their starting rotation is amazing, but with Matt Barnes falling apart, they're looking to Darwins and Hernandez who has no command to be their guy. Chapman looks gettable this year. And Chad Green is tired because they rode him. Scott Proctor-esque. And then the Blue Jays just got some new arms and Julian Merriweather coming up. That could be a really big boost for them.

So if, if it's about bullpens, I think there could be that kind of shift where they all end up in a time. Definitely possible. I think the more likely chaos comes in the form of something like Braves Phillies having to play a game one 63 to crown a winner of the NL East or Dodgers giants playing it out to see who's the NL West winner and who ends up going to the wildcard game. I think those are very likely scenarios.

The three-team one that you put out there, you know, not as far out of reach as beat writers would hope that it is. And I'm sorry, Britt, to all the beat writers out there and the traveling secretaries. But if their chaos is my enjoyment, it's not just me. It's like a million people that are going to tune in and watch those games. Sorry, that's a small price to pay,

I think, for us to drink some beer on a Monday and watch a little extra baseball. Dodgers-Giants is actually projected two-tie. So that's a fun thing. So I can't believe that Philly is still hanging around, but they keep winning those games where they're behind.

What was this, three times now they've won games where they're behind six or more runs? They just kind of keep doing enough to hang around. I mean, they're so obviously a worse team than the Braves. It's kind of painful to look at. They have a minus four run differential, and the Braves have 100 plus 114. And they're separated.

Oh my gosh, you're right. They're separated by two games right now. Here's the thing, though. They've got the Pirates in town right now. That was the comeback on Thursday. They got three more against the Pirates at home. They get three on the road in Atlanta. So there's your huge series next week that we're all going to be really excited to watch.

And then the Phillies go on the road to face the Marlins for their final series of the season. So this is very much up in the air. This is a great setup here over the final 10 days for the Phillies. Yeah. And then this is why the Orioles matter, too, because they play Toronto and the Red Sox. So the Yankees kind of have it a little tougher than those other two teams. And, you know, you mentioned the bullpen for the Red Sox.

If the Red Sox lose a spot, it's because they can't beat the Orioles, which you can't beat the Orioles. Do you deserve a wild card spot at this juncture? I watched the inning of that game last night and was like, this is painful. I can't. It feels like you're watching a AAA team. So yeah, it'll be interesting to see how that shakes out, Derek. You're right. It's to me that I thought the Phillies and Mets and looking at this now, I knew the Mets have to me, I thought the Phillies and Mets, and looking at this now, I knew the Mets have dropped off. I thought the Phillies and Mets were a little closer than they are. The Mets are seven and a half games out now, so they're done. They've been done for a while.

But I thought the Phillies were further back. Atlanta just has not taken care of business, really, at all. And the Phillies have had the benefit of some easier opponents, of some really wins that they had no business winning, like last night. They had no business winning that game. Did you guys see the tweet from Oren, one of our loyal listeners, who pointed out that the Mets and Rockies are kind of flirting with the same win total right now? The Mets at 73, Rockies at 71.

There's your subplot, Mets fans. Why watch Mets games for the final 10 days? Let's find out if you're better 73, Rockies at 71. There's your subplot, Mets fans. Why watch Mets games for the final 10 days? Let's find out if you're better than the Rockies were this year. I tell you what, the Padres aren't far behind that either. The way they've dropped like a rock. I mean, they are

now 21 and a half games out. There were jokes in Padres' Twitter about whether or not they'd stay above 500, and I was like, come on. They're a decent team. Their projected... Their true talent is 557 by projections,

which is actually better than the Giants, kind of amazingly. The projections still believe in them, but if I've ever seen a team in a tailspin, this is it. I talked to an executive with the Angels yesterday, and he's like, you know, if I've ever seen a team in a tailspin, this is it. I talked to an executive with the Angels yesterday, and he's like, you know, I still think the Padres are the most

talented team in the West. I was like, really? He's like, absolutely. Pure talent-wise, they are more talented than the Dodgers. Which, if you think about it, is crazy. I don't know if I necessarily agree, but... I think they're missing the depth.

You're talking like if you kind of cut the roster off at the top 15 or something, maybe it's closer. Yeah, like the starting line. But I think when you look at it, the difference between LA and San Diego isn't 20-something games, which is what it is right now, right? It's not that much. games, which is what it is right now, right? It's not that much. We saw these teams play really close, epic games, and we were all cheering and rooting for baseball early this season. And not that much has changed. I know there's been injuries for the Padres, but there's also been injuries for the Dodgers. And the Dodgers also lost Trevor Bauer for the entire year. One thing that sticks out to me other than player development which produces like the depth i'm sorry you were you had a you had you were finishing up no no go go you know

go with go with that no but the the one thing that sticks out for me is also the uh the velocity that the dodgers and giants have around the last two kind of roster spots they have those that kind of uh claiming created phil bickford for the Dodgers this year. That's a free reliever for them because they just claimed him off waivers and he ended up working out. That's long been a thing that Farhan has been doing. He claimed Jose Quintana, who's soaking up some innings for them. He's claimed a few of their relievers. Yes, Stremski was a uh claim or minor league edition so i don't see any of that with the padres you know like the the the kind of work

it takes to create depth is missing i think in san diego in terms of player development and in terms of roster manipulation honestly because if you get, like, the most, the craziest thing about being on these email lists for these teams is getting the Giants daily transaction email. It's every day. It's every day and there's five of them. And it's like, this guy's going on paternity,

this guy's going on bereavement, this guy's going on COVID, this guy's going on the IL, this guy's coming off the IL, this guy's getting DFA'd, this guy's getting picked up, and it's going on the IL. This guy's coming off the IL. This guy's getting DFA'd. This guy's getting picked up. And it's the longest crap you've ever read. And I realized these players aren't even leaving San Francisco. Jay Jackson doesn't even leave San Francisco. Jay Jackson has been optioned down like 25 times this year. He doesn't even leave San Francisco. He just does his workouts in San Francisco. He doesn't go to Sacramento. Why should he ever pitch for Sacramento? He's the Giants

reliever. They just want to give him days off and have more of a fresh bullpen. So really, the Giants are out here running like a 30-man roster. But that isn't a new concept. I think people kind of act like it is. It's not a new concept. The Rays do it in front of everybody. The Orioles weren't any good. They shouldn't have been good the years they were good. And they used to make a million moves because it was like, how can we win today? And that's the approach. How do we win today? Okay, we need to send this reliever out.

We need to get this reliever. It doesn't make a huge difference, but that guy can pitch two innings for us today if we need it. Right? It's those like fringy moves. It's having the maneuverability in the bullpen. A lot of teams don't have that. A lot of teams don't look for that as much as the Giants and the Rays. And that ability to kind of create wins on the fringes is something that is in vogue again, I guess.

Yeah. It's also, I mean, it's something that a team that wants to win will do, whereas a team that doesn't want to win would rather use that for like a Ramon Urias claim or like, you know, try to like find some actual players that might be there next year. They don't want to kind of always be manipulating the bullpen because they don't really care about the wins the same way. But, you know, it is something that's been around for a while. And I think it's kind of insidious if you are a reliever that's out of options. Just imagine being a 32-year-old reliever. You're out of options. You have to either be really, really good so that you get a pretty decent deal.

But if you're mediocre, the team is going to sign you and DFA you because you don't have any options. And that's just how life is run. So you're going to be DFA'd and then claimed by somebody else and then claimed by somebody else. You know, that whole like 164 travel situation. If you're a reliever without options, it's like don't even rent. Just like Airbnb. Just be wherever you are.

Which can get expensive. Yeah, I can believe that. Unless you do the one where you're just like sleeping on the couch. There's a site called Couch Surfers. I bet you in COVID that's like not really a thing anymore. That's probably less of a thing now than it was a few years ago. Like invite someone into their house to sleep on a couch they don't know. No, no, no.

But I bet they're all packing into some apartment somewhere. I mean, speaking of San Diego, we might as well hit that next because Dennis Lynn had a great piece about some of the changes going on in that organization. I don't know if we call them changes so much as like shuffling the deck chairs, it seemed like with some of these latest moves, like moving people around. The big deal, obviously, Sam guinney is not going to return after what seven seven years in the organization was that what it was yeah farm director isn't it weird that the farm director's gone like on from the outside looking in weird

that the farm director's gone we've talked for the better part of the last seven years about how great the young talent the padres have it really is And I think there's a clear cost to what they've done in terms of trading and buying high on pitching and making the moves they've made in that the roster they would have had, the top 30, top 35 players they would have had if they'd been able to develop talent internally more effectively would be much better. Because if you go through that piece and you see the names that they have had, they've had to use to make deals and you got to make some trades, right? But the cost of being the buyer in San Diego's case, where you're paying up for the more proven player is giving away all the guys that could be two and three win players we've

been talking about. It's the opposite side of the Seattle part of the trade, right? You're paying premiums for, or obviously in literal sense, like look where they got Joe Musgrove, look where they got Blake Snell and look where they got Mike Clevenger, right? If you're on the other side of those deals, you're getting the two and three win players back in return and you can't keep everybody, right? Just to be clear about this, it's not like you could hold everybody. The roster is only 40 men. You know, you got to find ways to manage things. That's part of this too. But I do wonder if part of the reason

the Padres' depth isn't what it needed to be to stack up to the Dodgers and Giants was the aggressive approach to try and get more top-end talent. Maybe they took it a couple trades too far. What you need to have is the player development to then push in the one

to two-win players, the 45s. You need to have is the player development to then push in the the one to two win players you know the 45s you need to have the the the the player development system that provides the depth because you're trading away the depth i mean as as badly as the cardinals seem to be run at times when they do those trades for the big uh the big names and i had to get that dig in because we're gonna eat some crow uh but uh But when they do those big trades for, you know, Nolan Aranato and Paul Goldschmidt, it's because they can create, they're pretty good at creating major league sort of okay players. So it's okay to let Carson Kelly go because you, like Andrew Kneiser, looks like he'll be okay. You know what I mean? It's okay

to let Luke Weaver go because, you know, we think these other guys and Austin Gomber, we think these other pitchers that are coming up are going to be good. So, you know, that's what's missing to some extent too, if you just trade out all those guys. But, you know, and we have more coming on this because it's a whole deal. But I just wanted to point out that there's this really interesting thing that's happening there. I just wanted to point out that there's this really interesting thing that's happening there Chris Kemp Chris Kemp is like one of Preller's right-hand man right-hand man he was the international scouting director and the field coordinator at the same time now that means he's um he's trying to uh manage call-ups and uh the relationship between the farm and the major leagues. That's kind of like the field coordinator, right?

And he's also trying to manage all the international signings. Now, that's already a two-people job that one person is doing. And now he gets amateur scouting director. So he's now in charge of all scouting, international and amateur, as well as being the field coordinator. This is, in some organizations, this is four or five people's jobs.

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, let me... That's crazy. Yeah. I mean, obviously I did a lot of work with Dennis and Ken Rosenthal about kind of the on the field product and the lack of leadership there. But, you know, we touched on and, you know, I know you're going to touch on this later. The issue is at the top. And I got this text message yesterday. It was yesterday, Wednesday, from an executive there that said there's going to be a lot more changes, supposedly not because of the losing, but because the departments need to be tighter and further align with leadership. Some people aren't checking those boxes.

So you read between the lines here at some of the reshuffling that got announced. You mentioned Chris Kemp. They moved Mark Conner to a special assistant. He was doing the player development stuff. He was their, what, their scouting director, technically, I guess. So they've moved around a lot of these guys and reshuffled them, and it seems like aligning with leadership,

if you read between the lines, is people that Preller... Yes, man. Yes, people that Preller trusts, people that are in his inner circle, so that there is no breakdown along the line. So I think that's what you're seeing here. But they... He already... His leadership style already sort of depends on that kind of relationship with a lot of people.

If you look at the people he's hired that he's now firing, they're all people that came with him from Texas. They're all sort of part of this chain that he's always had. So it's not a place where different ideas are necessarily bubbling to the top very well. No. But did the losing, you know? Tightening seems like the wrong idea. But did the losing kind of make people be like, well, what's going on here?

You know what? I'm going to take my guys and move them around, and then I'm going to bring in more of my guys. I'm sorry. That's just like the weirdest reaction to me. If I'm losing, I'm like, I need a new, I need a fresh voice. I need new ideas. Let's keep in mind, everybody in that organization is an A.J. Preller hire.

Jace Tingler did not pick his coaching staff. That entire coaching staff was recruited and signed and brought in by A.J. Preller. So this is not a traditionally run organization. You look at Detroit, A.J. Hinch got to choose his staff. Even in D.C., Davey Martinez, when he was a rookie manager, which is what Chase Tingler was brought in as a rookie manager, they did provide – Mike Rizzo did add some coaches, but Davey Martinez still got two of his own coaches. And he got more as he got this latest extension. He was able to bring in more of his guys. That's kind of how it works.

Chase Tingler did not get a single say his guys, right? That's kind of how it works. Jace Tingler did not get a single say over his coaching staff. That's actually amazing. Put Jace Tingler up against A.J. Hinch because the Tigers just signed Ryan Garco to be the director of, I think it's like VP of player development or director of player development. I don't know exactly what the title is, but player development head. the player development head. And there are so many ties between Ryan Garko and AJ Hinch that, you know, not only Stanford, you know,

there's other beyond that, that you could like, it's, you can kind of read between the lines and be like, maybe this is kind of a Hinch hire. Yes, it absolutely is. I,

I broke the, the government of 11. He's the on-field manager and he's like having influence. Whereas Tingler seems like he has one foot in the coffin already after one year. And he never got really given the power to begin with. Right. So I got the email two days ago and sent it to Cody, our Tigers guy. And we were able to break that they fired these 11 people.

And we were kind of wondering why. Like Detroit has had a good year. They've done better than people realize. And then you see why. And it's because they want to bring in more A.J. Hinch guys, which is fascinating because somebody from Detroit called me yesterday and they're like, did you see who we hired? Did you see who he's connected to? It's very clear who has the power here, which you're right, is totally not how most organizations are run. And I just wonder if AJ Hinch is running the Tigers, what's the point of Alavila? Like, what is he doing? Why then?

Hinch might do a better job. Like, you know, like, if A.J. Hinch is able to pick all the player development people, and I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but you just look at the difference with Chase Tingler and San Diego, and that was almost fated to go poorly, if you guys think about it, because as soon as it went bad, nobody was going to vouch for him because he has no – It's not his guys. They're not his guys. There's nobody around him.

And like one big part of coaching is creating – and this is going to sound like – some people are going to roll their eyes at this maybe. But like big part of coaching is making people feel good, like making people feel good in the space they're in. And that includes the coach himself and the coaching staff, you know? And part of that is, you know, you could call it cronyism or whatever, but like part of that is the coach being allowed,

the manager being allowed to install his own coaching staff. Then he feels like everybody has his back. Everybody's pulling on the same chain and nobody's, you know, trying to be there when he's gone. Yes. On a well run, on a Bruce Boshi team, on a Buckshaw Walter team, on a Jim Leland team, there is no way a player goes after a coach.

They don't even dream about it because the coach, like even in San Francisco now with Gabe Kepler, the coach is the same level of power as the manager, right? The coach is one of, it's like an extension of the manager, yeah. And they know that. But when you have a system, a dichotomy like you do in san diego it's not the same and so you're like oh preller is the actual source of power that i care about and i don't even think tingler is a preller guy anymore so i'm just gonna ignore him or whatever it is or or you know there have been some high profile uh moments of players yelling at coaches in San Diego,

and then players yelling at players, obviously, too. So they've got the same roster coming back for the most part next year, by the way. We just got really heated. Whatever shuffling the deck chairs maneuvers A.J. Preller wants to pull off, whatever, tiny clap for him for that. He's got basically the same roster coming back. The good news is Mike Clevenger should be healthy for the start of the season. So

you go Darvish, Snell, Musgrove, Clevenger as your core four. Denelson Lumet is entering his final year of arbitration this winter. I think with all the injuries he's dealing with, he's actually a possible non-tender. But if you keep him... Or a TJtender. But if you keep him.

Or a TJ. Right. But if you keep him, you can't pencil him in for more than 80 innings right now. I mean, it's just unfortunate. I'm looking at the roster. I'm thinking, you know, Mark Melanson's on a mutual $5 million option. And they're only going to have something like $15 to $20 to spend. So I feel like Melanson might ask for more. He's not going to take that $5 million option and they're only going to have something like 15 to 20 to spend. So I feel like Melanson might ask for more. He's not going to take that $5 million option. So he's

either going to ask for more and move on or ask for more from them and chew up more of their money. So, you know, even if you rack Melanson back, you would want to add relievers. So the only way to do that is kind of loop, put Pomerantz and Lumet in a bucket and be like, hope one of these guys is healthy. Because if one of those guys is healthy, they can combine with Pierce Johnson and Tim Hill and give them a workable bullpen again. But you'll

do that and you will chew up some of your money getting Lanson back and you won't really have any money to acquire anybody new. And that's going to run a bigger payroll, right? They were ninth in opening day payroll already. So I know they're spending a lot more than they were spending, which is great.

Are they going to spend even more than that? It seems unlikely they'd push up to $200 million. They'd have to. They don't need to. They don't need to, I feel like. They just need some more depth and to stay healthier. And it's a different Padres team. Maybe change a manager.

Maybe. That's all I feel like. I can't tell how much to blame on a manager. A manager is a guy who just, like, you know, keeps the bullpen right. You know what I mean? I don't know. Yeah, but see, once you lose. We're talking about this.

Like, Hinch has more power than I think of as a regular manager. I think a regular manager is just trying to keep everyone happy and in the right place, basically. I agree with you. But once a team gives up on the manager, like they did 2019 on Andy Green, you got to get rid of him. I don't think Jace Tingler is a bad guy. But once a team actually visibly gives up, and let's be clear, this is exactly what it looks like in San Diego, then I think you have to make some kind of change. You can't just rearrange some people in player development and say we're fixed, right? Yeah.

This can't be all the Padres do. It is tough, though. I mean, they're backed into this roster because they've signed a lot of people on major league contracts. So it's not like there's a lot of fungibility in the back end. Oh, yeah. Machado on the big long-term deal. Darvish, they acquired on a long-term deal. He's still got another year.

Will Myers, north of $22 million. Hosmer is still getting paid a lot for one year before he dips a little bit and is a little bit more of just an expensive veteran type that you can sort of just deal with. $13 million starting in 2023. Still a lot, but not as bad as the 21 million for next year snell's getting paid a little more next year because of his extension tommy fam's gone i've talked about him as someone who's underperformed this year so you got to get more from one of those outfield spots but that's not a difficult spot to go get someone i mean think about some of the players that were available last winter. Kyle Schwarber had a one-year deal from the Nats, right? You can get a player like that. A corner outfielder.

Yeah, not a difficult thing to go get. So you swap out Pham for someone, you're better there. A little better health across the board would certainly help. I'm thinking about the infield, too. I mean, Jerickson Profar, they gave him a three-year deal. He looks awful this year.

I don't know if he's been playing through an injury or what exactly the problem is there. Having Profar and Frazier just doesn't make any sense. It's like you don't want two of the same mediocre player. Frazier needs to be traded or non-tendered. They can't keep him. It doesn't make sense to hold him on the roster. It was a move that looked like it made sense at the time, but just as much as he exceeded expectations in Pittsburgh, he's underperformed in San Diego.

He's a player somewhere in between those two levels, but why retain him if you already have Profar locked in for a few more years? And I don't think they're getting anybody to take Hosmer's money off because even with this year gone, there's, let's see here, it looks like $61 million left in the next four years on Hosmer's deal I don't think people take on 61 they tried yeah they tried so so so so so hard this July and so I don't who who's gonna take it for what Myers 22 and a half million I think if you ate five seven of it something like that i feel like you could maybe get someone to take that money off and but then then you're down a corner now you're down another corner outfielder and you have 10 million to spend i guess that might be the idea is like you know spend 12 million on two corner outfielders very easy to do oh by the way chris paddock still very affordable as your fifth, even with his flaws, Chris Paddock

is great as a fifth starter. He's more like a mid-rotation guy, even with those flaws. So this is a good rotation next year. They've still got star power. Assuming Tatis' shoulder isn't completely messed up to the point where he needs surgery, the way he's playing, it makes it seem like he's fine. He

should probably be the NL MVP, and if he doesn't win it, Bryce Harper probably wins it. Maybe Juan Soto wins it. I know people are talking about that now, but he's still playing at an MVP level with a bad shoulder. I did have somebody on the Padres push back and say like, dude, if you re-ran this simulation that we're in a hundred times, this would be one of the bottom 10 to 15 outcomes. I'm not disagreeing with that. The Pythagorean win total is like 81.

So I don't know who was saying they were as talented as the Dodgers, but if that wasn't it. Somebody who's been in baseball for a really long time. I think when you look at starter to starter, it's easy to now be down on the Padres, right? But if they were all playing at or above the level we predicted, then I could see how you would get there. There's a lot of brand names.

There's guys that have done it before. It depends how good you think some of the underperforming veteran types are. But they have a great rotation going into next year. They have star power. They have enough resources to fix some of their offensive flaws. I think as down as you probably are as a Padres fan right now, there is still more to like about your roster and your immediate future than there is to dislike. Because they're not going to sit there and say, this is our team. We're good.

We're just not going to do anything at all. They're going to do some things. Mackenzie Gore, who knows what this winter holds for him. I mean, that's a big one. Luis Camposano, they have a catcher of the future who's played really well at AAA this year. There's another possible upgrade for them in the everyday lineup too. There are some silver linings here.

He's on the doorstep, right? CJ Abrams should have big league playing time for half of next season. I think we'll see him probably June, July. Here are some left fielders and right fielders. $12 dollars you maybe have to spend if you get rid of myers mark canha cory dickerson jock peterson eddie rosario kyle schwaber himself

there you go get get the man himself get the man himself uh cole calhoun will probably be out there uh i mean nick castellanos can opt, but I think that would be an expensive one. Abacel Garcia could be bought out, but I think they'll keep him, probably. I think there's some decent names. Even somebody like Gregory Polanco, who would come super

cheap if you bought him as your fourth outfielder to have a guy with a little bit of upside on your roster. Jorge Soler. Yeah, well, what about if to have a guy with a little bit of upside on your roster. Jorge Soler. Well, yeah. Well, what about if there's the DH next year, you just sign Nelson Cruz? Because I know they wanted him badly. I know a lot of the players wanted him badly.

I know they tried to get him and didn't because Tampa Bay ultimately ended up getting him. He fills the leadership void. He gives you a big bopper in the lineup that they need. He's a great person. He's a great presence. His agent lives in that area. bopper in the lineup that they need. He's a great person. He's a great presence. You know, his agent lives in that area.

He's got very close ties to a lot of those Baltimore guys. I think he makes a lot of sense. I know he's someone they're going to target this winter, especially if there's a DH. Yeah, and that's the thing that colors all of our analysis. It's a little bit difficult to

pin down as the CBA negotiation, what might change. I think the Padres might be at that nexus of teams that might actually spend a little bit more if the competitive balance tax is, is raised as it should be. Cause it's been the same for a while, you know, it's been in the same range for a while.

So if it gets moved up to like two 20, they could, they could have maybe $30 million to spend. Then they get Nelson Cruz, a couple outfielders, and a reliever. Well, we've delayed long enough. It's time. Lesson in eating crow. We've talked around this whole

game. Drumroll. Every division. The only division we don't want to touch. We did a 16-minute eulogy on the 2021 Padres and tried to get people hyped up for next season about them. And we've filibustered long enough. It is time for us to eat some crow with the Cardinals. Britt got to start the victory lap a little bit last week on the Athletic Baseball Show. We got to host that show last Friday, but now it's looking so good. So,

Britt, I can either give you the floor or I can just say, holy crap, I was wrong on a loop for the next five minutes. You know what? I always prefer the latter, so I would love to hear you and Eno discuss what has transpired here. And welcome

on the bandwagon, guys. There's room. I don't understand it. They're not a really good team. Because it's not always about the numbers, Eno. Oh, ouch. You have wounded me. You have wounded me to my core. No, it's not always about the numbers.

I know the game is played on the field, nerd. But I just look at this team and I'm like, I guess, I think, you know, one thing that I might have misunderstood is that this is a really good bullpen. Right? I think I didn't understand how good Luis Garcia was. And getting better. Yeah. And they kind of gelled as a bullpen, I think.

Because Gallegos, I always liked Gallegos. Cabrera, Genesis Cabrera is fine. TJ McFarland is better than I thought. Cody Whitley was somebody I actually highlighted one of our, in one of our podcasts at some point, but the, the, I think the bullpen coming together has really helped them hit like,

like even in their clincher, right. Did they clinch or just in the, or in last night's game? Last night they should have lost. Last night was another. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, they definitely deserved to lose yesterday.

Wayne Wright sucked it up. They gave up a grand slam in the first or something. They're down 5-0. No worries. Bullpen. Here comes the bullpen. They shut them down and won 8-5 or something. Yeah.

And is Hudson back yet? Because Hudson and Flaherty are going to be bullpen additions. Yeah. It's going to be even better. I don't know. They'll start Hap, Lester, Wainwright, Michaelis. Those guys will get three innings of pop from now on. I still think, oh man, who's your wildcard starter? Flaherty for two innings?

He's pitching today, and he'll pitch one more time next week. He'll probably stretch up to about five innings by the time we get to the start of the postseason. Yeah, you're using Wainwright in that game. It's a Wainwright versus Scherzer, and let me tell you, anything can happen in that one-game wildcard. Or it's Wainwright versus Kevin Gossman or Logan Webb. I mean, it could be the Giants in that game. I think we want the Dodgers to have to fight for their season in a one-game playoff because it feels like it would just be

fair for them to have to do it. But that one's still up in the air. I mean, I think, okay, so the couple things that I thought were interesting when we talked about the Cardinals on the other show, Paul Goldschmidt has been like good Paul Goldschmidt again, like great Paul Goldschmidt again. That's huge. Nolan Arnauto is always

good. Tyler O'Neill has really stepped up to the level that maybe some of us expected Dylan Carlson to reach this year. Carlson's been fine, but Tyler O'Neill's been really good. If you're listening to this and you've never seen Tyler O'Neill, just go.

You know what you can do? You go to Savant and it's like load random image, load random video. Just do that. he's the uh the the fire hydrant i think is the the body type that you've described before you know but there's something it's more than that well it's the body very large fire hydrant and then on top of that he's a tight pants guy um so it's it's uh it's just glorious to look at it's a crazy and then

he has a very interesting batting stance and really looks like he wants to murder the ball. And then he does. He does. It's baseball's very far. So you've got that kind of core three in the offense, and then you've got good secondary players up and down. I think Carlson kind of fits as a secondary part of the lineup right now,

could play up at any given time. Yadier Molina, been there a million times, not necessarily even a great offensive player, but the value you get from him, of course, calling games, defensively, part of what's made them great that I overlooked. The bullpen's been better than I thought. That was something that stood out to me last week, too.

The defense is really good. Obviously, Nolan Arnaud is a platinum glove player. You know he's good, but up and down the roster, this is a really good defensive team, and the conclusion i've come to run prevention is often overlooked when we're evaluating teams like you see teams make great plays defensively you know it helps the pitching staff you know it's a good thing but it doesn't pop the same way as being the team that leads the league in home runs or barrels or other things

that we just get more excited about so i think that's part of how the Cardinals snuck up on me. And my doubts remain about the starting pitching, but getting Flaherty healthy is huge because at least going Wainwright Flaherty and then bullpenning for the other two turns because you get onto a four-man rotation in

the postseason, that's doable. That's actually a formula that can work when your bullpen is that good. It's possible, at least. So they're scary. They're really scary, and I just thought they were dead, which is such a mistake. For someone who's been a fan

of an NL Central team, you know the Cardinals are the team that survives the apocalypse. They will never, ever, ever be gone. They will never be truly eliminated. Until they are mathematically eliminated, they are not ever actually done. And it's infuriating,

but it's also impressive. Well, imagine that next year, if we have 14 teams that are in, then all these mediocre teams are in. I hate that. The Phillies are in. I snap hate this so much. The Red that are in, then all these mediocre teams are in. I hate that. The Phillies are in. I snap hate this so much. The Reds are in.

No. The Padres are in. And no one watches the regular season because everybody makes it. Like, no. Terrible. Yeah. September. Yeah.

I think we fixed some part of September ball. Like, I did not like old September ball where you had a 40-man roster or whatever. Where you could just run reliever after reliever. The Brewers were amazing at that. It's a great timber to remember. You're right. Actually, that's a great point that I haven't seen anyone make that September

baseball is better this year. It's better now, I think. It's going to be ruined. If you do 14 teams, September baseball matters nothing. That's when people will just start watching football.. It's going to be ruined. If you do 14 teams, September baseball matters. Nothing. That's when like people will just start watching football and wake me up and wake me up in the second round of the playoffs because I'm a basketball fan. I watch basketball.

I don't really like the first round of the playoffs. I'm just like, this is a snooze fest. We're going five games between these two teams. I don't even want to watch one, you know? And like, yeah, like that's how I'd. If we had a five game series right now. Between the Phillies and Reds. Sorry. I'm sick.

To Phillies fans and Reds fans. It would be great. But would it be that great to other people. That aren't necessarily Phillies and Reds fans. That could be a good series. Would it even be that great. Because as a Phillies fan. You'd rather your team try to get better. Than could be a good series. And would it even be that great? Because as a Phillies fan, you'd rather

your team tried to get better than just be like, nah, we rolled out with an 84 win season and we're in the playoffs. That's good enough. And that's why the players want to prove it. That's why the players shouldn't. Like, make a big deal out of it at least and get a huge deal for it back.

And maybe only add one or two teams. Like, 14 is just absurd i don't think you add any if anything i think you make the wild card a three gamer i get the complaint over your season you win 100 games those give them more postseason revenue that way like the complaining to me is basically because it's the dodgers that might be the wild card team right if it was the royals or the mariners you wouldn't hear nearly as much about like oh they can't it sucks that they win 100 games and they don't win the division well remember what it used to be like yeah it's up for all those years and not even make the postseason exactly so like we fix that and i feel like baseball's playoffs is exciting don't ruin it

why do we have to ruin things this is why we can't have nice things we do not want the first round of the basketball playoffs i I promise you. The addition of the second wild card was something that at the time I was like, I don't like that. And then it played out and I was like, nope, that actually is good. And I will admit that sometimes I need to see how something plays out to really

understand if I like it or not. I don't think I will like more teams in baseball's playoffs. I still think the KBO model makes more sense. The team with the better record in the wildcard matchup only has to win one game. The team with the lower win total would have to win two. I think that's the better way to go. It's not a best of three, but it's a scenario where there's a little incentive to be higher in the standings.

You want to put weight on the 162-game grind as much as you possibly can. That seems to me like a better balance. I think if the owners want to put as less as possible, because the 162 grind, that costs a lot more money. Well, shoot. If every other sport keeps expanding its playoffs, Major League Baseball is going to follow suit.

I mean, in the NHL, half the teams make the playoffs. In the NBA, half the teams make the playoffs. In the NBA, half the teams make the playoffs. In the NFL, they're expanding the playoffs. It's there. Are they expanding the playoffs in the NFL? Yeah. Because they're adding another game, and they're adding a game, a regular season game, and they're expanding the playoffs? Yeah.

They're just finding more and more ways to make money, right? Because they ditched some of the preseason games. Well, here's the thing. If you're going to do that, then? And this is because they ditched some of the preseason games. Well, here's the thing, that if you're going to do that, then make the regular season 120 games again so that there is more of an urgency. Do something.

So we're not like, oh God, it's June. So you're not just like grinding the players down. Have you seen the players right now? Oh God, I feel so bad. Like I was talking about Chad Green. Some of these guys are tired, dude. Well, yeah.

We're all tired. They just look tired. I mean, am I projecting? Yeah mean, no one's talking about it. Am I projecting? Yeah. What no one's talking about is like the effect of last year's 60-game season, and now this year, these guys are all exhausted. Yeah.

That's a talk for another day this winter when we have nothing else to complain about. Well, I see it in the bullpens, I think. I see it in the bullpens. Yeah. And if Atlanta falls back, I saw a show, and and if the if atlanta falls back i saw a show uh and i love i love the show you know i'll name them i'm not i'm not critiquing them generally i think it's and would be central whatever i i watch them i actually like the show it's a good show and uh they were saying something about like i think it was on central they were saying

look at the the the braves they post like. The leaders in games played at each other's position are Freeman, Albies, Swanson, and Riley on the infield. And I was like, I don't know if that's a great thing, dude. I mean, they didn't play a full season last year. Now you're saying that they posted every game this season? Their legs are probably pretty jelly right now. The teams like the giants and dodgers are investing a lot of money into injury prevention and part of that is models that

create planned breast days and and like make take them make them take chris bryan out of the lineup and make them take uh brandon crawford out of the lineup you know um and uh i don't know the the giants are playing pretty well at the end of the season yeah i go i go back and forth with this i i miss the days of guys playing no matter what all right i think it adds like a and i think hannah kaiser yahoo did a great column about how freddie freeman playing every day inspires them all to play every day because it's like well you don't want to let down freddie um so i wish as a's like, well, you don't want to let down Freddie. So I wish... As a fan, you don't want to go to the Lakers game the day LeBron gets the load management day, you know?

Be like, oh man, I just spent a whole bunch of money to see the Lakers. I don't get to see LeBron. Oh, I just spent a bunch of money to see the Braves. It's a little bit less of a concern in baseball, right? Because you're not usually going to see one player because there's like, you know, so many on the field. Yeah, so I get it. But I do wish that wish that like i don't know why can't we trade it's the same thing with pitchers why marcus stroman has made every start and it's like in a

it's a hot commodity because guys don't often make every start that they're supposed to make why aren't we in 2021 smart enough to condition pitchers to be able to make every start they can right is it a flaw in the way they're training? Are we becoming so obsessed with rest and pitch counts and things that guys physically can't go more than 100 pitches anymore, right? Like, I don't know. It's an interesting thing. And depending on who you talk to in the strength and conditioning world, you're going to get

a different answer. So yeah, that borders on another conversation. We're talking about like this pitch clock, right? I like the pitch clock because you won't be able to rest as much between your reps, your throws. You won't be able to max out as much. And so, therefore, velocity will go down. But I did get some pushback from a trainer saying, you're creating fatigue. You're getting velocity go down by creating fatigue. So, by velocity to go down by creating fatigue.

So by nature, we'll create more injuries. And I'm receptive to that. I don't really want to create fatigue to take velocity down, but I do want to take velocity down. And so train differently. So right now we're training so that they can throw as hard as possible for 40 or 50 pitches because they only throw the fastball 40 or 50 times. They want to throw as hard as possible 40 or 50 times a night and get through five innings.

That's the way they're trained. If a pitch clock kept them from throwing as hard as they could every time, then shouldn shouldn't they train for like train for more of a marathon than a sprint yes you know we're training for a sprint because that's the game is allowing us to right now and we realized oh relievers are really good because they just come in and sprint right so let's just have our starters come in and sprint and everyone everyone sprint you know but but if we put a pitch clock in and we're forcing people to jog, then maybe train to jog as a tortured metaphor. I saw that comment in your mentions. I didn't want to start a Twitter fight, but I disagree with fatigue directly correlating to injuries.

You train to be fatigued. You train to. But Max Scherzer in February is grunting through the last 10 to 15 pitches of his bullpen because he wants to train himself to be able to throw that last inning. So if Max Scherzer can do it, if Max Scherzer is training that way and it shows up, right? Because Max Scherzer and just like Justin Verlander when he was healthy is often better as the game goes on. The greats are often better as the game goes on because they have trained that way. So, yeah,

I think another way of saying is like fatigue is a natural part of the training process. It's something you have to manage, but like manage it then differently. If you manage it differently, if you can't throw your max every time, you know, like think about a way to manage,

to manage your pitchers so that he's, he can actually throw it 80% and, and throw for longer. And yeah. Yeah. So I, I disagreed with that whole, To manage your pitchers so that he can actually throw at 80% and throw for longer. And yeah. Yeah. So I disagreed with that whole like, can't make them tired. Oh, no.

Well, let's train them so that their threshold for fatigue is higher. Right? Let's keep moving the goalposts so the fatigue doesn't set in on the 60th pitch. It's now the 100th pitch. There is a pitch clock. In your competitive lifting world, there is basically a pitch clock. You can't just take forever between reps, right? There is a pitch clock in your competitive lifting world. There is basically a pitch clock. You can't just take forever between reps, right? If they're requiring you to do reps, you can't just be like, okay, I'm now taking a 10-minute break and I'll do my next rep in 10 minutes, right?

Like, isn't there? If it is, like, are there events that there are reps needed to be done? Like, you need to do 10 or something? Yeah, it's more like CrossFit, but when I'm training and stuff, you're supposed to do a heavy three, so you know you can't do your max squat for three reps in a row, right? So you kind of have to look at it as, what do I have in the tank? What do I have reserve-wise? So I think with baseball, it's that same thing that we've talked about, right? It has changed so much and become such a velocity game.

It's become a sprint game. And it's interesting because the Nationals, and I don't know if more teams are going to do this, are now going to require their pitchers to run more. Because for years, they've been like, these guys don't have the endurance built up in their legs. And I wonder if more organizations are going to be like, why aren't we doing that? And that's a really old school thing. There are definitely people who are like, why does a pitcher need to run? He doesn't run for his job. Except Max Scherzer has a crazy running routine. I remember when I was in New York in 2009,

Andy Pettit used to do this blistering. You'd get there early enough and you'd see him do the stairs. He would do this crazy running routine. Roy Halladay had the legendary running routine that he would do at like four in the morning in spring training. So were these guys wrong? I don't think so. It's always been a lower half-dominated thing. When you make it about endurance in the morning at spring training. So were these guys wrong? I don't think so. Like it's always been a lower half-dominated thing.

When you make it about endurance in the legs, it sounds compelling to me, but I don't know enough. I also have seen Rich Hill sort of alligator arming around the stairs. He does stairs, but he doesn't do them aggressively. He does them as you might expect a 40-year-old man to do them. Hey, he's still doing the stairs. Makes me want to get up and be like, I'll do the stairs with you, buddy. I can handle the speed.

Hey, he's still in the game, though, so something's working. It's true. So the story of the early part of the week was Cardgate, where Kevin Kiermaier, whilst crossing home plate, picked up the info card that fell out of the wristband of Alejandro Kirk. Wildst reference. All right. Wildst crossing home plate. It's true.

It's a word. It worked. It was the right word. I'm sorry. Wildst? Wildst? Yeah. Wildst.

Okay. I don't know. Don't ask me how to say it. Well, now I'm in my own head. As he crossed the whole plate, Kevin Kiermaier found a card with information on it. It was the scouting report found of Alejandro Kirk's wristband,

and he picked it up, and people with the Rays presumably saw it, and eventually it was supposedly returned, and anyway, the Blue Jays were pissed. That's the story story basically. And hit him. And they hit him as the retaliation which I saw Bob Ryan. This particular kind of

being pissed. Old man Bob Ryan came in with the, that was a deserved plunking and I was like who still follows and reads you dude? What year is this man? It's not 1974 anymore Bob. Let's hang it up.

You have to make so many assumptions to get mad at Kiermaier. You have to assume that he knew when he's looking at it. Even with the video, him looking at it, you're out of breath. You just scored at home. You just had a play at the plate, which is one of the more traumatic things that could happen. You're breathing hard. You look down. There's a piece of paper. Yeah,

even if you assume that he knows immediately what it is, you would pick it up, right? Could be his card. He's got a card in his back pocket. You're also a competitive person, so you'd be like, I need to investigate this more. Even if I don't know, I know it's not mine.

And then the other guy lost his little cheat sheet on the field of play. Like, there's no, my point was there's not a single player in baseball that wouldn't pick that up. Yeah, I saw that tweet and I completely agree. This is not third grade recess. You don't return something you found on the swing set. This is a big league game. You're trying to win.

And I'm sorry, a few years ago, there was a whole trash can banging. These guys will do anything to win a game. You're trying to win. I'm sorry. A few years ago, there was a whole trash can banging. These guys will do anything to win a game. They're trying to see if guys are tipping pitches all the time. They're constantly trying to steal signs from second base. This is part of the game. If you're going to drop a cheat sheet, someone's picking up the cheat sheet.

That's the risk. No problem. The risk of bringing the cheat sheet onto the field is that you could lose control of it and someone else might get it. That's the downside. You want to bring it on the field? Okay. That's the cost. That's the risk.

That's what could go wrong if something happens to your wristband. The discourse took a downturn when we started talking about legality. And if I drop my social security guard in the ground and you pick it up, is it yours? It's not the same thing. This is not the same thing. This is a big league game. Again, like not real world at all. It's not the real world at all.

And also, like John Heyman was like, what if I drop a $100 bill? Listen, a $100 bill has value to everyone, the same value to everybody. This card has a specific amount of value to each of these people involved. It would not be worth anything to me if I picked it up. So it's not the same as a $100 bill. Okay, I got a question for both of you guys. If you are at the winter meetings

and you're walking behind Chris Antonetti and he drops something and you pick it up, it's all the Indians trade rumors. You give it back? Or are you using, oh hey, I got some inside knowledge on the trade rumors. I'm telling you what I'm, it's all the Indians trade rumors. You give it back or are you using, oh, hey, I got some inside knowledge on the trade rumors. I'm telling you what I'm doing. It's the latter. Take a picture.

Here you go. You dropped your card. We sound like terrible people right now. We've devolved into very bad people. That's not a $100 bill. That's not his social security card. That's information that will help you do your job better. so it is the same kind of thing is it not you're telling me Derek that's a good that's a good simple that's a good symbol that's a very good similar example Bob

Ryan would same kind of thing Scott Boris card back without even looking at I think this is the this is the exact right question to ask people who are outraged by what kiermeier did right it's like would you actually give that back if that was something you could use for a story i don't know like i was walking actually was in the athletic offices in new york i was leaving the building was in this high rise near grand central and there was a pile of money on the ground like wads of like fives and tens it looked like and it was just kind of sitting at the bottom of the escalator. And as I went down, I saw it. So I scooped it up and there was like a security person kind of standing by the escalator.

I just didn't even count the money. I just looked at him like, someone dropped this. I just handed it to the person and just walked away. Like, this is the closest person in charge who may have seen someone drop some money who could get it back to the person. And a couple of people I was with were like, what are you doing? just keep it like you're too nice just keep it like it's not mine i know i didn't drop it it's not mine that's a different scenario though than what we're talking about we're talking about a professional baseball game where you shouldn't have a cheat sheet on the

field of what you're gonna do the other team when they're standing right next to you it's a totally different construct this isn't i lost a thing that I didn't realize I lost. I brought the scouting report a few feet away from the guy we're going to use it against, and now I'm going to quietly look at it and hope he... That's a totally different thing. This is Scott Boris walking into the media room and leaving a piece of paper that's got a whole bunch of client info on there. Everybody there is using it. It's fair game. It's within the realm of, you know, I have no problem with it. There's an amazing story about Andrew Baggerly being put next to a team suite.

I think I've heard this one. In the winter meetings. And you could hear them discussing negotiations through his closet door. So he wrote a story about what he heard through the next door. See? It's the same thing. And it's a very popular story that's held in high esteem by most writers. It's one of the crazier, funnier things that Vags has done.

Oh, that's great did i dodge brit's question what would i do in in the i first off i wouldn't recognize chris antonetti from carrot top well maybe carrot top but uh i don't i don't know if someone just dropped a thing i probably wouldn't even look at it like i know your example it's like well you saw what it was like you picked it up and just as you were trying to figure out what you picked up, you're like, oh, this is important. You just knew right away. My instinct would be to say, hey, you dropped this as I picked it up. But I know it doesn't always work that way.

Let's sweeten it then. You go to Starbucks and the Indians had had that table last. They left a whole bunch of papers there that were their targets. You don't use that info? You don't read it, Derek? You give it back to the barista, but don't tell me you didn't read it and use it. One thing we're also missing is the heat of the battle sort of feeling you're in. Right.

I'm calm at the coffee shop. I'm in there. You're calm and not so emotional. Okay, this isn't my thing. But in the heat of the moment, if I'm running down the sidewalk at full speed, I'm finishing up my run. I'm getting my Scherzer on. You'll have looked at it and processed some of it before you even knew what you were doing. Like, you know, like when I played basketball and I miss it, COVID took this from me.

But when I played basketball, one of the things that happened was I would get this sort of fog of war. Like I would be a different person. I would be out there. I was out there to win. You know i would be out i was out there to win you know like i was like literally out there to win and like yeah sometimes i would like maybe elbow a guy or like maybe go over the back of somebody to get a rebound or like maybe be a little bit aggressive in in some way that i would never be if we're if i was like playing with my kids or just like bouncing the ball around with some friends you know like

this was like i'm'm going to win. And Kiermaier coming full steam home scoring against a division rival in an important game is more in the fog of war sort of place than he is in the like, oh, sir, you dropped this. Yeah. I am clearly a bad human. That's what I've decided. There he is. See? Bad human.

No, you're like the best human in this panel. You're the only one pushing back at all. But I'm saying hypothetically what I think I would do, but I'm also doubting myself to snap make the right call. Because when you were talking about Boris, I'm like, well, Boris is kind of a jerk. So I'd be more inclined to be like, what's this jerk up to? That makes me a bad human. But the other team is always a jerk, dude, if you're in the middle of the battle. That's my point about Fog of War. The other team is bad. You are good. All that matters is winning. And Eno had a great point in terms of the Indians

example. They should have just taken a picture of the card and then dropped it back at the plate. My elaborate scenario on Twitter was that you would purposefully drop an old card out there, make the team think they found the scouting report, and then just annihilate them with your actual scouting report. That would be fantastic.

That's out the window now. See, I told you I'm a bad human. That's a diabolical thing to do. But maybe is that a good human behavior because you're punishing someone who's trying to cheat? I don't know. I don't know. I would definitely use that card.

I'm going to go take an ethics class. I'm going to go audit an ethics class in my downtime this winter. That'll lead me to some answers. We need to go. I'm just always more willing to be softer and less judgmental of people who are in this sort of heat of war moment. I don't know if it extends all the way to actual war, but I think it's meaningful because you're in this sort of like kill or be killed mentality. Yeah, later he might have been like, oh, that, he passed it off to the coach because I think at that point he was like,

oh, this is a little bit radioactive. Like his prefrontal cortex had started to kick in and be like, oh gosh, everyone just saw me pick this up probably. I need to pass this along now. Oh, there's also the variation of, let's say this is a high school game and this happens and you're a high school manager and your kid that you're managing comes over to you and says,

Coach, I found this card. In a high school scenario, are you immediately giving it back to their team? Or are you saying, no, this is a high enough level. You're modeling behavior for young men, I think. That's what I'm saying. So there's something about this being a professional sporting event with money being the main stakes versus a game between children right like there's there's a difference there too so i don't know if i'm like coaching my kids team a bunch of 10 year olds running i mean they wouldn't have a

they wouldn't have a card like that but i think the high school level yeah travel ball you get to that i think you'd want to model good behavior and be like, hey. Also, but there's not as much money at stake. You're like, if we lose this game, all I'm really trying to do is showcase my kids, right? That's the obvious difference. But then there's like some point in your life where you're like, well, now the stakes are high enough where I don't have to abide by these things that I was teaching these kids. Like, that's kind of weird, too. So, again. But then there's my pickup games where there's no money on the blind, but I really want to win.

Yeah. You've tapped into something here. We probably have to talk this one out a bit more, but while we figure out why the fog of war messes us up the way it does, check out a subscription to The Athletic. 50% off at theathletic.com

slash ratesandbarrels. Maybe a future article on this topic is merited. On Twitter, she's at Britt underscore Droli. He is at Eno Saris. I'm at Derek Reiper. You can drop us an, on Twitter. She's at Brit underscore droly. He is at, you know, Sarah's I'm at Derek, you can drop us an email rates and barrels at the athletic.com.

As we've been mentioning for a few weeks, we're going to, we go live, uh, the Tuesday that the playoffs begin, unless there's a game one 63. So we will actually kind of step in and do more on that Monday. If there are actual games there.

So we will kind of not in our very, very small way, feel the pain of the beat writers and the traveling secretaries if the season does in fact extend by one day. So hopefully we'll be around for that. It's going to be 11.30 Eastern, 8.30 Pacific time.

Not specific time. Pacific time if you want to catch us live. For BridgeRolley and EnoSaurus, I am Derek Van Ryper. That's going to wrap things up for this episode of Rates and Barrels. We're back with you on Monday. Thanks for listening.