Rates & Barrels - Spring Things, Leveling Up with New Pitches & Platoon Considerations

Episode Date: February 20, 2025

Eno, Trevor, and DVR discuss a few spring news items including ongoing shoulder woes for Rafael Devers, tennis elbow in both arms for Giancarlo Stanton, and a slimmed down Eloy Jiménez at Rays camp. Plus, they discuss factors that teams should consider when deciding to platoon a player and wonder if Kerry Carpenter might see an expanded role in 2025. They also bring the first installment of 'Level Up' giving a new pitch a handful of pitches that could use a boost in their arsenals, and the first 'Name! That! Dude!' of 2025.  Rundown 0:53 Are You In the Best Shape of Your Life? 2:33 Rafael Devers: Still Dealing With Shoulder Soreness? 11:59 Giancarlo Stanton: Tennis Elbow in Both Arms?! 18:40 Eloy Jiménez: Down 25-30 Pounds; Primed for Rebound with Rays? 27:23 Factors to Consider When Platooning a Player 35:46 Level Up! What New Pitch(es) Are You Handing Out This Spring? 59:46 Name! That! Dude! Follow Eno on Bluesky: @enosarris.bsky.social Follow DVR on Bluesky: @dvr.bsky.social Follow Trevor on Bluesky: @[e-mail] e-mail: [e-mail] Join our Discord: https://discord.gg/FyBa9f3wFe Subscribe to The Athletic: theathletic.com/ratesandbarrels Hosts: Derek VanRiper & Eno Sarris With: Trevor May Producer: Brian Smith Executive Producer: Derek VanRiper Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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It's a new daily game for sports fans. To play now, go to theathletic.com slash connections. Welcome to Ritz and Barrels, it's Thursday, February 20th, Derek Van Riper, Inosaris, Trevor May all here with you on this episode. We'll take a look at a few intriguing spring news items as pitchers and catchers and position players all have reported. We're actually on day one of spring games thanks to the early start to the season for the Dodgers and Cubs. They have a spring game that will happen later on Thursday.

So nice to have baseball back on our screens. Join our Discord with the link in the show description. Talk fantasy strategy, talk about your favorite team, talk about anything you want. We got the void too, so if you're upset about something, fire it off into the void. Totally safe place to do that. Lots of ground to cover today guys, we're going to get right to it. First question, are you in the best shape of your life as you sit here today on Thursday, February 20th? What would you say, Trevor, self-assessed?

Best shape of your life? No. I'm close. I might venture almost to say the worst. It's the worst shape. Whatever. Weird timing for that, but yeah, not feeling too great about it right now,

but yeah, it's a new year. We'll see what happens. Same, got a two-year-old, so yeah, probably getting a little worse each year around the time spring training starts. So maybe by next year, you can get back to where you usually are in late February. You know, how about you, best shape your life?

Well, my kids are getting older, so I do have time to run, and running-wise, I'm maybe 80th percentile for myself. So I'm doing OK there. It's just that my metabolism, I'm getting older, so my metabolism is just going the wrong way. So like, my body is just like, I'm doing all the right things training-wise. I'm doing more activity than I usually have in my life,

I think. But my body is just like, yeah, that's cool, but you're old. Nice to get those reminders on a daily basis. I ran nine miles yesterday, which is good, but I'm sore and I feel like crap. You feel like you ran nine miles yesterday. Exactly.

Well, let's take a look at some of the intriguing spring news. We get these kinds of stories all the time. We kind of get the best shape of their lives. We get the injury suffered this off season is still a problem. Sometimes we get the injury from last year is still a problem. That's the case for Rafael Devers, which is a bit of a concern. I saw a report from Jen McCaffrey.

She offers the Red Sox for the athletic. Devers has been doing separate infielding cage work as he builds up his shoulder program after last year's shoulder injuries. They expect him to start regular workouts next week, but it's something to keep an eye on. So what level of concern would you have for someone who was dealing with a problem and had an entire off season to try and rest and rehab,

shows up first week of camp, and is still not working on the same schedule as everybody else? Is this a really bad sign, Trevor, or is this just kind of a typical maintenance thing, take it easy because it's early in camp thing? It depends on the thing. I can say from experience though,

you really want to address an issue in the off season because it's just, you get this sense of urgency when you play, when the season starts, or when the spring training starts up, you see everyone else getting going and you just don't want to have to worry about it anymore. And there's a, when you're still feeling something about to go to spring training, dang it.

And very rarely are guys like a couple of weeks before like, oh, by the way, something's still barking, but I'll see it a couple. Like everyone just tries, okay, let's get this figured out. And then we'll go down and like, see if we can not have to say anything. Cause that's just what you, you want to be healthy. And when guys, for example, this Devers thing and another guy we're gonna talk about later, when that types of stuff happens, it gives me pause. Spring training's not a time to get through stuff like this.

It was in the off season when you could rest. So if you're just continuing your off season into the spring training, you just need the time to get ready and it can be a domino effect where you're always trying to play catch up with the team and sometimes you get lost seasons that way so i always get a little bit uh-oh especially when it's like not really explained or it wasn't like a surgery thing so that you know set back some surgery can be different are different i feel like then just like something that's still barking it tells me like you haven't really figured out what's going

on and if you haven't figured out what's going on. And if you haven't figured out what's going on in the spring training, like you're one step that way from missing half the season. So that always gives me pause. And it was always a point of like anxiety for me. I had a lot of those, but a big one was just like, if I'm still feeling not great, then it's not great.

That actually happened in 2016 when I, or 2017, when I came into spring training from Tommy John. I had a back injury the year before. I rehabbed that all off season. I think I got it just to a place where my back felt good, but I didn't stretch out like I normally would long toss wise because I wanted my back to feel good. My arm wasn't in good enough shape to be in gains,

and I blew out. And so it's one of those things where you gotta focus on this one so much that sometimes other things can pop up too, because you don't have time, there's just not enough time in the day, you don't have enough energy to focus on your normal routine because you're working so hard on a specific thing. Yeah, I guess the silver lining here is that Devers isn't doing nothing, still doing infield and cage work on his own is a good sign.

I wonder if this could be the type of thing that helps the Red Sox along in their decision to decide to move Devers off of Th of third. We talked about that last week. You referred to Masatake Yoshida, that's the spinach in the teeth of the Red Sox. Finding a spot for him's a little complicated once he's back from his own shoulder injury. But Devers played through this last year. He played 138 games, had his fourth straight season with a hard hit rate above 50%, popped 28 homers, he really still looked like himself on the back of the baseball card. So I guess the related question for you Eno is,

are you veering away from Devers in fantasy, where he's still gonna be an early round pick? He's always a toss up with Austin Riley, kind of in that late second, early third round range. Do you just steer away until you have more information, or until at least he's playing in spring games, or does this give you more concern even beyond that because it was a problem that plagued him last year? I don't know, I mean he did fine last year and so if he just repeated last year he'd probably be still a great value, he's still such a great hitter. I do agree that

this part of the season is really terrible one for injury because what you see is I L placements peak, you know, in March and, or at least on opening day when they have to make a decision about the roster, you know, that's when all those injuries come through. And I do think that like people think, you know, if I just rest, it'll go away. And then I come back to spring and Oh, this crap, it's still there. Cutter Crawford in the same camp has patella soreness and he said he had it last year. That's the sort of thing where it's just oh my knee is just a little sore and at least it's not my arm and you know I'll just stay off it a little bit this offseason and then oh crap it's still there.

But the thing is you don't want to get the surgery. Like surgery is not good. So if you can avoid the surgery it's better. So I don't know. I'd say it's good news he didn't have shoulder surgery. Like surgery is not good. You know, so if you can avoid the surgery, it's better. So I don't know, I'd say it's good news. He didn't have shoulder surgery. That's almost the best way I can spend it. But if I was the team, like it is, it does lead you to wonder if he could, you know, help his shoulder be in a better spot if he wasn't throwing as much. And maybe, were de-aging, maybe. Yeah.

But then you just really have trouble, because I mean, Will your Braves a much better outfielder than Masataka Yoshida? Yeah, a problem to solve once they know a little bit more about the opening day roster. Christian Campbell still has a shot to earn the second base job. If that happens, then Bregman has to play third. But just by pure value, we talked about Bregman last week.

Look at the defensive numbers on Devers. He was 58 out of 59 players with a minimum of 200 innings at third base last year in defensive run save. So almost the worst third baseman who played 200 plus innings there last year. Bregman was tied for eighth and Oats Above Average didn't like Devers either. He was 53rd out of 59. Bregman was tied for fifth. So what are you doing at a certain point? You know, I know Devers wants to play third. You have a guy who's a lot better at it. So put the

best possible combination on the field and just make it happen. Plus, could wonder what the right move is, you know, sort of clubhouse makeup wise, because know the guy who gets the big extension has the big money is the leader you know and pissing him off is a decision like to some extent it could be like hey we gave you your money you like we're still in charge and you're gonna be better over here so like you can pout for a while but like this is how it goes or are you the kind of organization that says? Okay, all right. This is what you want. We're trying to make it happen for you I think that's a slippery slope, especially when you have better options and other people in the clubhouse know it I mean think about the people in the Red Sox Clubhouse

How many of them think Raphael Devers is a better defensive third baseman that Alex Bregman Tristan Cassis? I don't know if you saw this is the only one Casas is the only one I saw the Casas. He even has a little bit of a pause, he knows. Like he knows, but I did actually really like, I love Casas just when I'd be like, you know what, that's my third, he's my guy. I'm just supporting him. And he just didn't dance around it.

At least from that point he did. But yeah, I think everyone in the room is like, come on, Rafi, you also know that you're bottom part of the league in defense, you know that, but you have to know that, there's no way you don't. Well, Casas doesn't want him to come over to first. Well, that too, and I totally get it, I understand, guys, he's got more clout than me,

he's gonna get a position and the next one up is mine, but he's gotta know. So if you are the leader though, at some point, like one guy who I think did a good job with that early in his career or at least made his intentions known, P. Alonso came in knowing, he's like, guys, I know what you, like, I know what everyone sees me

as a defensive player, I know that. But I just wanted to know, I'm gonna, no one's gonna work harder at me getting better at this. He's improved a lot. I mean, he's still not great, but he is much better than he was. And if Rafi took that kind of like, hey, I know, but I just like, I'm being paid this money.

Give me a chance to continue to get better. That's what my goal is. Like I'm working actively working on that. I think it would be a little bit of a different situation instead of just being like, hey, are you gonna do this? He's like, nah, I'm gonna just keep going and doing what I'm doing at third. And it's hard to defend that when you are as the front office, you know,

because at the end of the day, like, there's a much better, it's not just a little bit better, it's a much better defensive option. I really like Yoshida as a bat, actually. I think he's a pretty good bat. And so I'd be calling the Red Sox right now. Because like, even if you say, okay, well Bregman might be a one year option and I don't wanna move Devers, my captain type, off a third for a one year option,

there are enough exciting young players coming through that Red Sox system that you can cover third. And probably with better D. So, you know, you got Marcelo Meyer, Kristen Campbell, like you've got, you've got some guys, I don't know if Campbell can play third, but you know, you've got guys you can move around. So like story story could play 30 probably better third baseman than second baseman.

I mean, it's sort of stop at this point. So I would be calling them in a second and be like, you know, why don't you pay half of that salary, you know, and I'll I'll get a free DH. Yeah, that might be the outcome with Yoshida once he shows that he is healthy. How about this one? This one falls under the bizarre spring training reports. John Carlos Stanton has tennis elbow in both arms like that is rare. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone actually having tennis elbow in both arms.

Tennis elbow does suck though I've had it and it's it's hard to grip stuff. That's the main thing. It's like a pain tolerance, how well can you grip things sort of problem. Might not be ready for opening day. This just sounds like a case of John Carlos Stanton being so strong that his joints can't keep up with his muscles which is just absurd and it's kind of like the the latest chapter in the sad second half of the John Carlos Stanton book where his body is Breaking down on him at just the accelerating rate and it's going to keep him from Reaching maybe the Hall of Fame like I thought that was in the cards earlier in his career And I think every year that passes where he's losing a possible large chunk of time to an animal like this

Just makes that even less likely So where do we go from here and and like have you to an ailment like this just makes that even less likely. So where do we go from here? And like have you ever heard of anything like this before? I don't think I've ever seen a hitter go down with tennis elbow in both arms before. That's not good. That's not good. It's screaming like chronic issue to me and chronic issue.

Like remember changes in the knee with Miguel Cabrera and everyone's like, what does that mean? What are we going to do about it? Like, manage it? Like, you don't want to get a manage it shrug. Like there's nothing to do. Earlier this week, I read out all of the injuries that's happened since he's been with the Yankees and he's just, I think you hit it right on the nail with like, he's just too big and strong and athletic for playing a 162 game baseball season.

Like he's so athletic that he might almost be better off playing football because they have less games. And it's the type of thing that his body would hold up a little bit better. This is like torque and joint separation and then coming back together over and over again to generate power. That's how you do it in baseball.

And he swings so hard, he's got the hardest swing in the league by like three miles an hour. And it looks like his arms gonna go with the bat now. Like that's just what's happening. Makes me think of a couple things, like the castless ribs injury, where you're just like, okay, these guys are swinging so hard now, so fast, that we're gonna get pitcher type injuries,

elbow injuries and rib injuries and oblique injuries because of how fast they're turning the bat. And they have to turn the bat at fast to match the pitch speed. There might be a hitter component to the pitcher injury crisis that is sort of representing this. But I also think of Trevor's long-standing talk about hyper and hypo mobile. And I kind of like, when I see a hitter, I kind of prefer like a kind of a whippy hitter. If we're just talking about guys who swing the bat really fast, like I kind of prefer like an O'Ne whippy hitter. If we're just talking about guys who swing the bat really fast,

like I kind of prefer like an O'Neill Cruz body or an Elie De La Cruz body, or even, you know, like a Tatis, it doesn't have to be super tall, you know, I'm just saying like somebody who's kind of whippy and movie to like Jordan Walker, Giancarlo Stanton, these are guys who get really good bat speed but kind of just seem to do it in a muscular way. And I don't know, it comes back a little bit to my idea

that like, you know, Ron Gantt growing up, Ron Gantt got too big, you know, was one of the things we said. And, you know, I know this is something that players, especially I feel like pitchers think about, it's like, can you lift too much? And, you you know what is the balance between lifting and mobility and how do you how do you judge that is that just everybody

has their own little bit or are there things that were changing while you were in baseball Trevor that were kind of like how people thought of you know because I remember people like yoga and like you know people were like oh I'm now doing yoga. I think even junk off stand some points, like I took up yoga and lost some weight. So what was your sort of relationship between lifting and size and mobility? Like, what did you see around the league as you were kind of going through it? You mentioned the hyper mobile, hypo mobile thing. A lot of guys didn't really think of it in those terms like they weren't. They weren't like getting that from their training staff.

But they had a lot of things tailored based on the type of body they had. So like two guys who I was in the bullpen with the twins, we had Trevor Tyler and Taylor, Tyler Duffy and Taylor Rogers. Duffy and Rogers hyper mobile guys, super athletic, really loose. And they had to like force themselves

to work out three times a week or else there they got so Flexible they get outside of the ranges So like Duffy's arm motion would get long and he'd start to like lose command because he couldn't keep within his arm pass So they want to bulk up as much as they could I mean they are always just like Tightening maintain strength within a range or you get you'd like lose yourself out of the range They would always try to increase my range and then maintain the strength within the range. Adam Arvino is the same way as me.

He's a little bit more mobile, but we were just rolling on the foam rollers and just making sure we're getting all our mobility in because we were just big and not as mobile guys naturally. And if I didn't do anything, I would have no ability to repeat anything. So it's like a spec. You want to get somewhere in the balance and some guys were coming from the mobility side, some guys were coming from the tightness side. Basically what people would do is be given the strength coordinators and the strength

programs got good enough to where they could identify what type of guy, which direction they're coming from and give them things that would help them be the best version of themselves in that way. But sometimes like your body does put you on a track that is different than everybody else it's like Stanton could do all the foam rolling and yoga in the friggin world and Still maybe end up with injuries, you know Like it's just he's that kind of guy and I also think of when you talk about like, oh, why doesn't Jake DeGrom just you know? Sit 94. Yeah, I think yeah

I think to some extent stands like that too. He's just like this is who I am like I swing the bat really hard and I'm a big guy and You know, it's gonna come with injuries. I guess it's a bummer I did see a quote in the Brandon Cutie story about the Stanton injury that he was actually dealing with some pain during the playoffs last year and he was on fire I mean, he was actually dealing with some pain during the playoffs last year and he was on fire. I mean, he was playing really well. So we'll see if it's something he can manage kind of like that Devers situation.

But this is a new one for Stanton on a growing list of ailments that have really been a problem for him. It's the season to shop new styles, electronics and definitely a holiday trip. And what if each time you made a purchase, you got a little something back? With Rakuten, you can earn cash back on just about anything you buy from over 750 stores. So if you're looking to buy a new phone, clothes, skin care, or a getaway, well, you can get cash back. So treat yourself, family, and friends and book that holiday trip now.

Start getting cash back today by joining Rakuten. It's free and easy to use and you can get cash back deposited into your PayPal account or sent to you as a check. It's the smartest way to shop, plain and simple. Start your shopping at rakuten.ca or get the Rakuten app. That's R-A-K-U-t-e-n dot c-a. Some good news, this is the more typical positive news that you see this time of year.

Eloy Jimenez lost 25 to 30 pounds during the offseason. This is according to Rays beat writer Adam Berry from MLB.com. Eloy has always been a larger human out there, more of a D.H. than an outfielder. Sounds like the Rays want to try to give him some reps in the outfield and at first base this spring he's still just 28 years old so I think you can look at Eloy and say there's still time for him to turn this around last season was the first time in the big leagues he was below average for WRC plus so it's a really big buy low opportunity for the Rays at a minimum cost they could get a guy that comes in

and is 15 or 20% better than league average and maybe even plays one or two spots defensively for them, even if he doesn't play them particularly well. So I'm curious, you get to face Eloy Jimenez four times, Trevor, he went 0 for 4 against you, even struck him out once, which I got a clip here. This is great.

I wonder if you remember this particular sequence. Fastball away, I know exactly what it is. Yeah, fastball away, there you go. Fastball on the block, 95, got him. I wonder if you remember this Yeah fastball away there you go 95 got him. I love pictures man good stare down to at the end. I got a little hold on there I'm not four times in your career. You just yelled at the bitch. You got him out. Yeah 2019 like it's five years ago, right? Oh, I remember that. I don't remember a podcast in August of 2019. Let's just say adrenaline prints stuff into your head a little bit.

Yeah, that's right. I was pretty jazzed up. My takeaway is that we need more adrenaline going into the shows if we're gonna remember things that happened several years ago. You need to do a Belos slap before we get on here. What do you think about Eloy Lloyd, though I just I generally I think share a philosophy with the

Rays in terms of looking for low strikeout guys that can do damage and need to lift the ball more often. Like one thing that's always surprised me is that he hits the ball on the ground a lot just because the type of hitter you think he's trying to be. You think

he's trying to be a 30 home run guy and he runs 50 plus percent ground ball rates year over year. They've got a good track record as an organization of helping guys lift the ball more often. Do you think this ends up being a low risk signing that bears a lot of fruit in Tampa Bay? I'll start with you first, Eno. What do you think here? Well, I'm the dork and the nerd, and so I looked at the projection systems and Top seven by the bat X and top five by oopsie not by plate appearances, but by WRC plus so both of those guys think that both those projection systems think that he can be one of the top nine hitters in Tampa Bay and If that's the case, then all the plate appearance projections are wrong because if he's one of the top nine hitters in Tampa Bay

they're going to go north with him, or south, or I don't even know, yeah, northish. We're gonna give you some time to work on that one. Yeah, but anyway, they're gonna take him. Where's Tampa from Port Charlotte? I didn't know what you were talking about. Now I get it, yeah. I think it's literally straight west.

Is it over? I think it's west. West with him? Anyway. Northwest a little bit. I think they'll take him with the major league team. And so then as a question of lefty righty and he's a righty and he could be a small side platoon guy, but I'm willing to give him 450 plate appearances. I think he can, he'll be a small side platoon guy, but he also play a little bit more than that.

Maybe even kind of the semi regular DH there. I think he has that ability. And I'm looking at 2023, you know, 15 to 18 homers, decent OVP batting average OVP. I think he can do all that. I don't believe the defensive value at all. So I think it's a DH play. That would be the surprising part.

Trevor, is there anything with Eloy that explains why he hits the ball on the ground so much? Is it part of his swing path? Is it the pitch selection? What do you think it is that causes him to pound so many balls into the ground? There's one swing decision that he does make. He likes to go down and in a lot. Like if you can throw a good hard sinker down and then he'll chase off the plate. He really likes to swing at that pitch. If he makes contact on that, then it's straightened.

He hits it hard. He hits the ball hard. He just hits it right at third base a lot. And I remember that happening. That's when he wasn't going great. When he was going well, it was just a lot of gap to gap, hard into the double type stuff. And he wasn't really lifting the ball then,

as much as other guys, even in that lineup. So he's a big guy. But he's got those low hands, which he has to kind of, he kind of brings back and not really up. So I feel like he, with the amount of high fast balls, it's a little bit of a having to move the hand, move the barrel up and then come down on the ball.

So he's constantly like having to adjust. He's hitting the top of the ball more. He's getting on top of the ball more because it's like a compensation for where his hands start. So it wouldn't be surprised if we see a couple inches come like his hands go up or like his batting stance changes a little bit in order to get that backspun ball into Tampa because they just they're known for their pitching, you know, reclamation projects and guys, you know, get going there and becoming really, really good

pitchers. But they've done it a few times with some hitters as well. Some guys that like come to mind like Logan Morrison went there, randomly hit 30 home runs. They picked up Zeezy Krohn for a year, he hit 30, and then they DF-hated him. Like, I don't think Eloy's gonna hit 30, but I think he is a guy who could just like, we look up in August, he's got 21 pumps, and he's hitting fifth, and you're like,

oh, like, surprise, they got the best version of Eloy. And a big thing, this is a little bit more anecdotal, but a big thing with Chicago, there was just a little bit, there wasn't a lot of energy coming out of Eloy and Moncada and they were just always hanging out. It was just kind of like, they ground out and be, ah, it's okay.

There wasn't a lot of like, he's mad at himself for hitting the ball. So he wasn't adjusting very much. We didn't see a lot of adjustments happening quickly or a lot of frustration around what was happening. And I noticed that changed a little bit when he went to the Orioles and it changed. Like he just, I think he was seeing his game

a little bit differently. He's seeing the end. Yeah. I just think that he's seeing like, oh, I gotta figure this out or I'm not gonna have a home. And I think he's really talented. And I think he is a big league hitter.

And I think that he hasn't really fulfilled his potential yet because he had a couple stretches there where he was really dangerous. And we kind of had to worry about him in the lineup when they were all going pretty good. Maybe it was 20, 20 or 19 for a bit. I wasn't even up at 19. It was 19.

I was 31 homers there. Yeah, yeah. So it's in there. He's got 30 homers in there, but he still had a lot of grand balls out here too, which is interesting. So I guess stuff to pay attention to. What changes does he make going to Tampa?

Because you know they have changes they want him to make. I was just gonna say something about that. I think sometimes we want to give Tampa like, oh, these huge changes. But if you think about the, some of the most successful changes on the pitching side, it's been a little bit more about like, hey, like instead of glass now,

like we're changing everything you do. It's like, we're just gonna give you one target high. You know, and we're gonna simplify things for you. And we're gonna going to give you one target high, you know, and we're going to simplify things for you. And we're going to just basically talk about what you do well and not have you think about what you do badly, you know, and, oh, I can't, I can't command anything. No, you can. If you just, just throw it here, just throw it here. That's it.

Just throw it here. So for me, when I look at his heat maps, I see someone who has contact ability. So I think he tries to fight off all strikes. So anything that's in the strike zone, he's trying to fight it off. And if I could make the simplest of adjustments with him, I'd be like, you are a high ball hitter. If you look at his ISOs, like they're high, right?

You are a high ball hitter. Don't worry about anything low. Just don't swing at it. Take called strikes. We don't care what your strikeout rate's gonna be. We don't care at all. Like if you go up to 25, 30%, maybe we don't care at it take called strikes. We don't care what your strikeout rates gonna be We don't care at all like if you go up to 25 30 percent Maybe we don't care at all like just don't think about strikeouts Just think about looking for that high ball and everything else nothing, you know, don't swing at it that would go

You know what you were talking about? Like if he's swinging out things low inside He's it looks like he swings at things low and outside too So it's like he's just not good at those pitches They're either ground outs or they're whiffs. And so that would just be like, hey, you're really good here. Let's think about that. Right, you'll trade four or five percentage points

in K-rate if it comes with a three to five percentage point bump in barrel rate. If you're unlocking all that extra power and that seems like something he's at least capable of doing, so we'll see if it all comes together. It seems like a good fit with Eloy in Tampa Bay. Let's get to another topic that kind of started percolating for me a bit yesterday. We were talking about the Tigers on our AL Central team previews and wondering about

Kerry Carpenter in particular led me to kind of ask this bigger question. What factors do you think teams should be taking into account when deciding to platoon someone? And Carpenter's path into the big leagues is a little bit odd because he was a college guy, lost the 2020 minor league season, really didn't spend that much time in the minors at all. And if you look back at minor league splits, Kerry Carpenter was not bad against lefties in the minors.

So the decision to platoon him has probably been more based on how the big league roster fits together than it is about Kerry Carpenter's skills and I think because the backups, the extra pieces you have on the roster can be so fluid, I'm opening my mind to the possibility that we may see Kerry Carpenter play more against same handed pitching. So what would you want to see Trevor? What factors would matter to you if you were in the position of trying to make some decisions about who actually should face same-handed pitching

if they previously haven't had a lot of opportunities at the big league level? It's interesting because I think that most of these decisions, especially with guys who are not a ton of service time, they're young and they're controllable for a long period of time, is it comes down to a number scrunch for the roster

and you're like, this is the best value we can get for this guy. But in Kerry's situation, he platoons, doesn't play, and then when he does play, he's batting fourth. And you're like, if your four hitter is platooning, maybe we gotta find ways to get him into the game. And maybe he doesn't start against- Can't he be your seven hitter against same hitter?

Yeah, just moving down the lineup and protect him maybe a little bit, but he's not a liability. So I think that comes down to, I think that the strongest, I guess, argument for platooning a guy would be whether or not they're a liability against the same hitter. Because now that with a three batter rule,

like you don't have to worry about Lugies coming in and like pinch hitting this guy all the time. You don't need to worry about it. Like he can come in and face one lefty later in the game, especially him, he doesn't strike out a ton, he puts the ball in play, he can make something happen, but they are pinch hitting for him late in games and bringing in variety because they see him as that.

So what I would be looking for is one, how big of a liability are they? Is this glaring and do we have a good amount of data on it? Usually you get that from minor leagues, but he hasn't played that much in the minor leagues. And then two, it comes down to the personnel, is the guy he's platooning with just as good the opposite way, and so they kind of come together

as one hitter, it's a very clear weapon that you can count on making the change. But for me, I think, Kerry Combert is a great example that he needs to be in the lineup, and needs to be in the lineup more, because I just don't think their lineup is good enough to keep him out of it or like get, I'm blanking on a righty that he'd be taking ABs from.

Like that's probably not a good sign. So. Is it Wensil Perez or something? I mean last year it was Justin Henry Malloy on the other side of the platoon a lot of times with Carpenter and they'd get him into the game, if he didn't start of course Carpenter would come off and face a righty off the bench

and that'd be his way in but it's the sample that's so small right it's a hundred and thirty four big league played appearances against lefties only a twenty three point nine percent k-rate and I think when you when you say like what's a liability a liability to me is a guy that has no chance of doing anything up there I got strikes out thirty five percent of the time in that split gets fewer opportunities faster. So I do think when you see less swing and miss, you can say, okay, let's play this out. Let's give this a few more months.

Let's see if we can actually get some improvements, try what you suggested, play them a bit lower in the order. And when you look back at those minor league splits of like a 20% K rate at AA and AAA, that also points to him probably not being a liability in that spot. So what else goes into this? What else are you thinking about as you try and make a call like that?

Because they might be leaving even their sixth best hitter against lefties on the bench because they think that the small side platoon guy is a better option. I can't say this is exactly what the Tigers are doing, but I can say what I would do, which is I would be thinking about contact points, vision and swing paths a little bit.

Because if you're looking at results, the numbers on platoon split suggests that you might need a thousand plate appearances in the split to really believe it. That's when it becomes predictable and predictive. So if I'm going to give you a thousand, if I'm going to give Kerry Carpenter a thousand player appearances as a lefties before I make the decision, I'm screwed. I mean, you can do that on a rebuilding squad, maybe. But if I'm trying to be good right now, if I just gave a guy a thousand plate appearances to find out, oh, he really is a 70 WRC plus guy against lefties, whoops. Thanks. Thanks for figuring

that out. You know, like eight years later, like, I mean, how do you get a thousand plate appearances against lefties? So you know, what we're doing now and what I would love to do as these numbers become more available to us in the public sphere is kind of like a batter stuff plus, which is just an idea of it's a bat path grade. These are what teams are doing. I know they're doing it. And if you have a bat path grade, if you have bat path information, and then you have pitcher information,

then you can do better interactions between the batter and the pitcher. And without that, we're left kind of guessifying a little bit from the outside. So I was saying on the last show, this might be when you kind of thought of this a little bit. But I was saying that like Colt Keith, I think might have smaller platoon splits than maybe a Parker Meadows or maybe even a Kerry Carpenter

going forward because he's a let it travel guy. And I'm thinking about contact points and vision. And so I think one of the biggest sources of platoon splits is let's say you're a left-hander, you're looking maybe at a left-hander. We know from research about arm slots that lower arm slots have bigger platoon splits. So that informs my belief that like, oh, if I'm a lefty and I'm trying to look at a lefty

and he's throwing from a left low arm slot and I can only see that with one eye. You know what I mean? Like I can only see his release point with one eye. You know, I even asked Adam LaRoche if he like stood facing the picture like he did, if because of like, so he could see it with both eyes and he was like, maybe he wasn't that kind of guy.

He wasn't gonna give me a better answer than that. But anyway, I think if you kind of can only see with one eye, letting it travel gives you that extra microsecond where you're just like, more likely to make contact. And I think you guys are right to sort of fixate on strikeout rate. That'd be another way that you could see, oh, this guy just doesn't see it, man. If he's got like a 12% difference in strikeout rate versus lefties versus righties or something,

then like, that's something I would think would have signal in it earlier than overall results. Because if you just can't make contact with it, you just can't see it. I think it's an eye thing. Being able to see it requires chances. You have to learn, you have to have that chance. And the thousand plate appearance thing, you're right. In that split, it takes seven or eight years

to see that many lefties. So you have to make this call long before you have a statistically beneficial sample. That's the tricky part of it. We see teams putting guys into platoon roles where we're a little bit surprised. They do it quickly and they do it. I mean, Maloy is like almost a versus lefties only guy, or at least he was last year. And I don't know. Maybe that's just a, hey, we're breaking you into the big leagues as softly as possible.

But I'd be really interested to see what they do with them this year Yeah, it's not just Carrie Carpenter. It's a thing. We've talked about for a long time It goes back as far as like Jason Hayward remember when Jason Hayward was coming up in Atlanta He said well, he's not gonna play against lefties. You're bringing him up as a teenager Let him let him learn like how is he gonna ever hit lefties if you don't let him play If you do it so hard, then you never giving a guy's chances to be everyday players. You're just sectioning them off too early. We got a new segment we're gonna break out.

We're gonna call this level up and it's a great question to start asking this time of year. What new pitch or new pitches would you like to hand out this spring? And I think the simple rules that we came up with were it could be something a guy has thrown before but less than 10% of the time or it could be something that would just fit the arsenal really well and make them much more effective going forward. Trevor I thought I'd throw this one to you first. Who are you targeting and what pitch are you giving them? Okay so my first is Tyler Glass now gets a change-up, but a seam-shifted change-up.

Because he has a supinated spin axis, he throws that hard slider and that curveball only. He's a breaking ball, you know, ride fastball kind of little natural cut a little bit on that fastball type of guy. So everything goes the same direction. That's issue number one. That's why I tried to break out the sinker. He's trying to find his what goes the other way type of thing. He did have a little bit of success with the sinker, obviously got injured again,

and he's been very clear about how his number one goal, he's like, I won't change anything if I can throw 170 innings in a year. Like that's all I wanna do. But I think that a change up might be able to be helpful with that, because I think overall change ups are just easier on your arm

When you rip a lot of fat or your brink of balls all the time and you don't have anything that's different than that pattern I think that also just anecdotally can wear on the same types of things There's a couple different things I can think of I've looked at some change-up guys and they some of them have had better health Outcomes with and also, you know, you've talked about this before, pronating is something we all do, which is sort of going like this. If you watch a guy throw a football even, they pronate, which is, I never thought,

I thought you just threw it like this, but you actually kind of, every throwing motion does that to protect the arm. So a change up, there's more pronation there, so it might be protecting the arm more. Yeah, exactly. And the more you throw something where you're not pronating as much, you're doing it later, the less your arm is able to pronate. And pronate is the natural way

that your arm is supposed to move when you pull it through. And I think it's just like another weapon. He's just so, he's got such good stuff that if you added something that was a weapon enough to maybe make counts or early in counts where people had to worry about it, then now it makes everything else so much better it's just like one of those things if you throw 15 different breaking balls but you don't have anything that's not something that spins and breaks at some point that's a bucket of things that a hitter can look for and they don't have to worry about anything doing anything other than that it opens you up

for if you're not super sharp that day like you don't have a lot of options to kind of mix it up another guy that I thought would be really interesting who doesn't throw a change up either is Pavetta giving him a splitter. Namely, specifically the Felix Bautista splitter because they're both really high ride, high arm slot guys and Felix Bautista's movement on a slider or splitter, like his stuff plus, I didn't look at his stuff plus, but in relation to his fastball it's great but in a vacuum if it's by itself if you just took splitters as splitters are because it's like 88 too it's like not a 94 mile an hour it's not a splinker it's a splitter and it doesn't move like league average like a ton it's just he throws so hard and his arm slot so high and he's got so much ride on his fastball that a pitch that goes down at all is 10 miles an hour slower,

it's just gonna be impossible to get used to. It's gonna be impossible. And he does it so well, he tunnels it so well that it doesn't need to move a ton. It doesn't need to be the craziest movement pitch on the planet in order to be as effective it is. I think Pivetta has an issue with break with homers. And if he had a splitter that people had to worry about,

the ball's getting hit on the off the end of the bat a littleitter that people had to worry about the balls getting hit on the off the end of the bat a little bit more or there's like softer ground balls being hit and that homer problem gets taken care of a little bit you know and and possibly cleans up he doesn't necessarily have the best overall splits against lefties either so having a weapon to use on them you know he uses a curveball it's great and when he's dialed in he's great curveball fastballs awesome but I think everyone should have some change of splitter situation. And right now we've learned a lot about how to throw splitters with all the guys coming over from Japan

and guys adding them and then seam shifted splitters. And who knows, maybe they can pull a Clay Holmes who this is a pitch. He's already doing it or I would have thrown him on this list, but the kick change that Clay Holmes was throwing in spring spring can't wait to see how that reacts to. Hopefully next year at this time when we're talking having the same conversation I'm throwing kick changes out there because it's one of the most fascinating new pitch designs I think that's in the game right now. Describe the kick change a little bit just because it's relatively new for some of the folks out there. So here's a ball got one. Kick change is really interesting because it's like

almost got so there's a bunch of got one. Kick change is really interesting because it's like almost got, so there's a bunch of different ways to throw it, but it's almost got like a knuckleball mindset attached to it, but it's not a knuckleball. What you're trying to do is to kill the velocity. It's almost like you're holding it, you can hold it in force and you can hold like a palm ball or whatever, but you put your fingers up and you take them off the ball and as you're coming through right at the end you kick these two fingers out and just your fingertips push it so you kill the spin on it. So it's almost like it has slower spin, like a splitter, but it's easier on your elbow.

But it's all about timing. So guys who have been throwing like really heavy sinkers tend to like have comfort there. I've tried to mess around with it. It's not a pitch that I think I would do very well because of my arm motion. Sounds really complicated. Like you're gonna do what at the what and when? What they identified was a lot of guys were having issues slowing that pitch down because they were so used

to having so much pressure on their pressure when they throw pitches. So like guys with really good sliders and throw hard, like they grip the ball so tightly, they throw like a 91 mile an hour Change up that wouldn't move because it was too hard. It was about like the fingers were in the way So this is a way they were like hey Let's take that pressure off of those two fingers that are creating all this like tension and then just think parachute

Let it go like roll it off the fingers like this and for some reason guys. Oh, it feels real. It feels so different It feels similar, but also different enough to where I can get it slow way down So like clay Holmes's I guess reports are like it's like mid 80s With a 97 mile a go it right now I think or the do it regularly or Davis Martin and Hayden Bird song stuff likes their their change-ups They learned it from the same person as Brian Bannister's is the sort of common thread there. They move like splitters a little bit. They're a little slower but they move like splitters. And both of those guys are what you might call supernator or slider guys. I mean both of them have multiple

breaking balls and are better on that side of the ball. So yeah that's an interesting way. One of the ways I wanted to get into this was the reverse which this is such a slider league that you, it's so sad when somebody like Casey Meyers says, like, I don't have a feel for spin, or you have Roki Sasaki and Yamamoto and Imanaga coming over. All three of them don't really have plus sliders. Like none of the three have plus sliders. They all have iffy spin rates and not necessarily have a great feel for spin and so I would just really love to give them a gyro slider just like a 91 mile an hour you know cutter 90 mile an hour cutter slider thing that just has a little

bit more drop than a cutter you know know, because I just think that will require less feel and touch and different. This is me not being a pitcher, but this is my feeling is that that would require less than, Hey, let me give you give me a good power curve or give me a good sweeper. I feel like sweepers come from people that have to have sinkers have certain characteristics and they're not that easy for a guy to pick up. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think that something that was like a cutter that had a little more

drop would be something that you might be able to teach guys that have four seamers and have splitters. You're just asking them to basically take the cutter grip and just be a little bit more on the side of it, you know? That's how I think of it. What would you think would be the easiest slider to teach Yamamoto or Rimanaga or Casey Meyers? I mean, that's the way Casey Meyers is going right now. He's trying to throw an 89 mile an hour gyro slider.

I think that, especially in the last couple of years, the first attempt is the sweeper. I mean, it's still just such a, if you can get a good movement. Some guys just, they have no idea, they naturally could throw it well, and then they do when they try it. If they go and rip it in a bullpen or like in catch,

and like you look at the numbers, like you don't know, this isn't intuitive for you. Then I think the gyro would be the best, especially with, if you have a really good splitter. And by the way, I would throw probably Senga in the same group with the not having a great slider. And some of that's a function of having such a good splitter and forkball.

They just have, it's like, why would you not throw it all the time? But there might be mechanics and maybe value, like sort of organizational cultural values over there. There's just, it's not as much of a slider league or whatever reason. Like these are the guys that come over. The hitters also tend to have slider bats.

Like that's what I've heard from every American that goes over there. Oh, right. It's just a natural, like guy comes up, brand new young Japanese guy, usually is good at hitting sliders and can't either hit velocity or a splitter. And it's also like the kind of the lefties

kind of leak out of the bat and slap a little bit more and they move their hips. And there's a lot of different stuff going on that isn't in America that makes this stuff happen. I think you're right. I think the gyro is the easiest to pick up because one you're not looking for a huge movement like you're like if we get some movement that's good. So the kind of standards lower and then guys who are usually like on top of the ball using the splitter feeling the top of all the pressure on the finger. using the splitter feeling the top of the ball with the pressure on the finger. That might be something they can be on top of the ball to get the bullet go a little bit throw a little death ball or a cutter. And then the mindset wise they just go throw it as hard as you can. And every pitcher can be like, okay like grip the pitch and throw it as hard as you can see what happens. This is the grip

throw it as hard as you can. If that's where you're starting from usually that's something guys can pick up on or at least buy in too faster. Yeah so I did prepare a slide here real quick this is the reverse one So these are do better against lefties So these are better against lefties and of course, you got some lefties on there But the righties are really interesting because you've got show time down there. You got Yamamoto up there. Look at those splits He has a 237 mobile against lefties and a 317 against righties. That's pretty huge and Another name on here might be doing what we want him to do right now.

Grayson Rodriguez, change up first guy who is throwing a gyro. He's throwing the sweeper this spring. Oh, that's right. Shota is the lefty. I got that one wrong. Whoops. But Yelmoto, look where he is on this list.

He's fifth on this list and has a reverse platoon splits. Grayson Rodriguez is sixth on this list and has reverse platoon splits. Grayson Rodriguez is sixth on this list and has reverse platoon splits as a righty. Grayson is going to try the sweeper this spring, which I think is actually pretty awesome. Because if he's got sweeper, change up, gyro slider, four seam and sinker, that's a really big mix. All of them are pretty good pitches. I continue to think he's a huge breakout candidate. I was looking at Brandon Fott when we were planning this exercise out, and I was trying to decide what the addition to his arsenal should be. Right. He's got the Four Seam or Sweep or Sinker.

He's got to change the curveball. He's even they threw 16 splitters last year. So it seems like he has a feel for a lot of different things. I thought maybe the cutter would be the way to go, but what would you guys do? Would you do a cutter, a gyro slider? What do you think would be the better tweak for Brandon Fott?

Because the pitch he uses to get the most whiffs is the sweeper, but when he makes mistakes with the sweeper, it turns into homers. So I think he needs something to maximize the effectiveness of that pitch. This is the needs change up list. This is the guys who are better against righties and lefties. And yes, Brandon Fott is high up on this list.

Schwalbach is a big multiple breaking ball guy. Bryce Miller did add the splitters, so maybe he'll be off this list. But I've been really wondering. I'd love to hear what Trevor has to think about Brandon Fott. It's interesting. It comes down. He hasn't been, he's still young. I think there's a lot of figuring out which pitches to throw for him. It's probably already in his arsenal, figuring out which one is the one he's using most. Without like really, I think this takes like a go in and go look at like where people are

swinging at these pitches. sometimes like some guys throw a Really nasty slider and you're like, why isn't this effect working very well? And you're like, oh wait, it's every time it's not a strike It's very clearly a ball the whole time and no one ever wants to swing at it, right? It's all about location like where they're throwing it the vision thing they see it forever. Yeah Exactly. So like or some guys need to miss over the plate because it has more depth than they know about. Like that kind of thing is a lot of the reasons that some people like, like you Darvish, for example, you just like loves trying new pitches and like messing with stuff.

And I know he's 38 and he's been around for a long time. That's part of it. But like sometimes guys just like the idea of having six pitches and they want to make sure they're consistently throwing them and they wanna make sure they're consistently throwing them and they're not, they're making decisions like that and young guys do that sometimes. I don't know him, sometimes though,

young guys, especially with six pitches, he's like, doesn't wanna, he doesn't wanna get rid of one. He wants to try them all because that's the way you think of being the best version of yourself and it takes time to kinda buy into like, these are my bread and butter or maybe there's a slight adjustment with the grip

or something, so I think the longer you go, the more open to like changing grip one day and seeing how things are working. I think he's just pretty rigid and just from seeing the few times I've seen him pitching a game that he kind of just like sticks with the program the whole time and it might just be an adjustment thing.

But it's kind of hard to see which one, where he should go with it at this moment just based on the numbers. It just seems like one more pitch might be the thing that gets Brandon Fott up to that, like starter, like I think that second, third starter level, instead of being that backend guy that runs into some big innings that really mess up the outings for him. You had one more pitch, right?

You know, you had one more you wanted to give out. So Fott like out of the sinker and it turns out he's a little bit more sinker slider I think he's a guy that they were trying to coach into kind of foreseen curve You know and more over the top and he added the sinker and it's like oh his sinkers his best fastball and his sweepers his Best secondary so maybe he's a sinker sweeper guy You know then he fits the category that I'm looking at, which is there are all these sinker sweeper guys that came up through the Yankees and they don't all have the same change up.

And so we've got is, and we talk about this all the time, but you've got Hayden was ASCII Clark Schmidt and Michael King and Michael King is the platonic ideal of this group. And he's a sinker slider guy who has just enough force seam and really good change up command. Stuff Plus doesn't love the shape of his change up, but it's the best change up out of the group. And I just wanted to, I prepared this clip because this is Clark Schmidt throwing his change up. It's a low arm slot, it has decent movement.

Here's Luke Weaver throwing his totally different arm slot. And I want to just throw it one more time because Luke Weaver says, Clark Schmidt is, I think, pronating at the end, sort of whipping it, turning it over at the end. Luke Weaver is turning it over through there. I think you can see that a little bit. He doesn't have that kind of that same whip action, you know. So with the way Luke Weaver explained it to me is that on the change of when he's coming through, he's already pronating as he's coming through. So you know the difference between like a pronator and a supinator might be that like a pronator is pronating as he's coming through

and the supinator is like at release is pronating on change-ups. It's just where in the process where's your hand in it in the process of turning when you release the ball because everyone's is turning. So supinators are just not quite to the pronation yet when they release and then they get out and as they extend, then they do it naturally. One interesting thing about that clip too, their heads tell you a lot about the intent, right? Like Clark Smith stays and at no point

does he like pull that head through, watch Weaver's head. He like gets it out of the way so that he can. So like guys that do that, I'm like Weaver. That's what my motion looked like. And it's funny, he says he's a pronator because he gets more behind the ball, he's got good ride. But he feels like he's pronating earlier, even though I think that he's still just,

he's either right behind the ball or slightly supinated when he releases it. But there's very few guys that are truly outside of 180 access when they release the ball, like the airbender is. But like, I've watched that thing 10,000 times in slow motion, I'm like, I don't understand like how you, what you're feeling, how that feels comfortable.

He really feels like, in his head he must be like, I'm ripping this down, like I'm ripping it, like I'm just. Yeah, he's just, it's just something that he has. He just has it. It's natural. And it's something weird that doesn't feel comfortable to anybody else.

But like that's a truly supinated pitch. You know, given their different arm slots and you mentioned this a little bit that there's something about Weaver's arm slot that maybe makes him pronate earlier, which is like he kind of has to because his arms up there. It's like a kind of just a different situation. You have to start to turn your arm a little earlier

because it's higher up and it's closer to your head and you gotta like vacate and get everything out of the way in order to get to the right place to where it feels comfortable. And that's one interesting thing about who- So can Clark Schmidt have a good change up? I think he can because he has the same arm kind of action, not quite the same, but as Michael King.

Michael King's not a great one. He has the cross body thing going. And not quite the same, but as Michael King, and Michael King's not a great one. He has the cross-body thing going, and I think that also makes his change up better, Michael King. That's King? Yes, but I think that Schmidt can get something that moves like that, and he's just trying to find that right axis.

But you know he's like talked to Michael King about his change up, you know? He's like, he's looked at his change up, you know that the Yankees probably were like, this is Michael King's change up, and they had the edge, I mean, they they were on the same team. And maybe this is the year because let's to be absolutely Frank Clark Schmidt has been just trying so hard for three

years just to be the fifth guy. Like he's like, can I just be in the rotation? Can I just stay in the rotation? So he's like, I'm just going to rip my breaking balls because they're the my best pitches and I'm gonna have my best results. And he said to me that he said when I first came up, I was like, I'm a stuff plus machine. I need to throw my best pitches and just keep throwing them my best results. And I'm gonna stand on the team. He even said that to me. He said, when I first came up, I was like, I'm a stuff plus machine. I need to throw my best pitches and just keep throwing them.

But now he has some space. He's gonna make, he's gonna be the fifth guy because he was good last year. And he was a better pitcher than Sroban and they want him to be it. So maybe in spring, this is the chance. He gives it a real shot. And he's like, I can go do this again.

I can get some confidence. Because sometimes they just go out there like, I've been working on this, change up all week in bullpens and stuff. And then you get out there like I've been working on Changeup all week and bullpens and stuff and then you get out there like and I didn't throw any like yeah Just with the game comes you go to your things that you're much more confident Yeah, because you know like buy stuff plus the Clark Schmidt changeup has hovered in the sort of high 80s and Michael King's is not much better His stuff plus for his career for the change up,

which I mean, of course it could be wrong, but it's an 80, but even like pitching bot has a 47 on the change. I think that King has so much confidence in it and great command of it. If you look at the heat map, it's just like blown away. It's just like bink, bink, bink, bink, you know? And I even had a conversation with, you know,

somebody in the Padres organization about it, where they were like, I don't believe this is Stuff Plus. And I was like, I think he just gets a lot of value out of, and if I look at this heat map, it kind of brings a tear to my eye a little bit. It's like the perfect change up heat map is just like right there. Yeah.

I'm taking that literally. A little confidence, and he doesn't have to throw an amazing looking stuff, high stuff plus change up. He has to throw a decent change up in the right spot. I just want to watch reaction videos of you seeing a heat map and having tears just start to tears of joy. All different kinds of tears, really, I think are possible.

Yeah, the Joe Boyle fastball heat map is a different kind of tear. Or the Hayden Bird song fastball heat map is a different kind of tier. Or the Hayden Bird song fastball heat map. Wow. One little bonus one, I would give Hayden Bird song a sinker or cutter. I would just teach him a different fastball. Cause he's spraying the fore seam nonstop.

And I would just look at his heat maps with a different fastball. Replace it completely or would you just throw it less and still have it in the mix? Well, I think that there's sometimes, like we chase stuff a lot, I think as development. And I think in this case, you might have a pitch that the stuff plus monster doesn't love,

but all of a sudden you stop spraying it. Because you've, and I wanna ask Trevor about this, like your thought process and pitch mechanics are a little bit different on each of the different fastballs, right? A little bit, yeah. So maybe if it was just like a cutter and he's just thinking cutter,

but it was a cut foreseam, not like a cutter with movement. And maybe that little thought process would keep him from spraying because he keeps his finger through a little bit longer, whatever it is, or stays closed a little bit longer because he's thinking cutter. Because he has great command of his breaking balls.

He has good command of his breaking balls, but his force seems just all over the place. I would just be like, let's try, just call it a sinker in your head, or just call it a cutter in your head and see what happens. I would also just chat with him and be like, hey, are you worried about your fast puck getting crushed? Because I know from experience that when I didn't want to give up hard hits, I would

just not throw any strikes. And sometimes that sometimes it's just like he just isn't confident in it. And maybe maybe if he thinks he's thinking of it moving a different way, or it's a different look or it's a different pitch, then suddenly he's got command of it because he has command is the ability to have command and feel like that's clear. Yeah, on a different way or it's a different look or it's a different pitch, then suddenly he's got command of it. Cause he has command, he has the ability to have command and feel like that's clear. Yeah, on a different pitch. Yeah, when I've talked to him about it,

he's just like, I spray it. He's like, I spray it. I spray it. Yeah, he says, I spray it. He thinks like he's literally like, I can't, I don't throw my fastball where I want it. And he's not confident. Yeah, I could, this is like a feedback loop. I'd love to see Hayden Birdsong figure it out

with the fastball cause I think he could be really good if that all clicks for him. Hopefully this year too, good late sleeper. We got our first 2025 installment of Name That Dude. We're gonna wipe out the scoreboard from last year. Start with a completely fresh slate. Everybody listening can play along. And the rules are pretty simple. I provide a series of clues.

After each clue, Eno and Trevor can take a guess, try to identify today's mystery player. Very simple game, generally a lot of fun. At least I enjoy it. Hopefully you guys both enjoy it too. They're usually really hard to see everyone else. They're usually really hard, yeah. I was born on this day in 1975

and I made my Major League debut on September 24th 1996. I'm still waiting for someone to hero ball one off the first clue, I mean they're intentionally ridiculous first clues, there's no. That's a born, I mean debuted in 96, okay. Debuted in 96, born on this day in 1975. I finished second in the NL rookie of the year voting in 1997 losing the award to a future Hall of Famer

Any guesses? Jason Kendall It's not Jason Kendall Over the course of my career I won a World Series ring a World Series MVP and NLCS MVP a Silver Slugger award And I was a two-time all-star in 2004 and 2005 Terry Pendleton is not Terry Pendleton a Silver Slugger Award and I was a two-time All-Star in 2004 and 2005. Ooh. Terry Pendleton.

It's not Terry Pendleton. Remember me through that again? Over the course of my career. Go ahead, Trevor. Keneerco? No, it's not Paul Keneerco. Over the course of my career, I won a World Series Ring, a World Series MVP, an NLCS MVP, a Silver Slugger Award,

and I was a two-time All-Star in 2004 and 2005. It's a massive clue, just in terms of the amount of information packed in there. No, I know, I think I know the team he's on. I'm just trying to think. All right, next clue. I went seven for 17 with a homer against Tom Glavin and finished my career with 10 home runs

Wait finished the entire career then or Tom Glavin 10 home runs 10 total career home runs, but one of them was hit against Tom Glavin with this guy's a silver slugger and has 10 career home runs Yeah, so you got to think about the air here. Oh, I can't find it This is like this is like Greg Maddox This is all yes is one of my best this is one of my best name that dudes of all time based on the deception This is a picture dude. This is a picture. It's right the next clue I was the starting pitcher in the final game one by the Montreal Expos Is it Pedro Martinez? No Pedro Pedro's in around oh?

oh Mmm Trevor get a guess Is it Pedro Martinez? No, not Pedro. Pedro wasn't around. Oh, oh Mmm Trevor get a guess Okay, Brian Brian Brian's got it last guy Who was the Thing who was the picture that the like the exposed pitcher that wasn't Pedro Martinez like this guy Huh was that guy? Yeah, like a nickname like the professor or something yet like you're gonna have X's nickname

I'm not I'll do okay. I topped 200 innings in a season 10 times But my highest strikeout total in the season was 186 It's that X-Bow's pitcher, dude. Yeah. I don't know. I just don't know any of the X-Bows, man. Oh no. I just don't.

And I'm mad. Next clue. He's Latin, right? Next clue. My last big league appearance took place in the ninth inning for the Brewers in September of 2012, my ninth big league club. Okay, so this is, now I just want someone to get it, so I'm gonna throw out this where I put my head out,

because I'm not gonna get it. But I believe that 2005 was the year he was the World Series MVP? No. Okay, well then I'm wrong. I don't know. I want to say play for the White Sox. Alright, career teams include starting with the Marlins.

Marlins Giants. Levan Hernandez. Levan Hernandez. Yes, that's fatty. Love that guy. Yes. Ah, the Marlins. Happy 50th birthday to Levon Hernandez.

Who was the Expose pitcher that I was thinking of? Mmm, I don't know. Who was that Expose pitcher Eno was thinking of? This could go on forever. He has one of the worst, one of the most dominant starts for the worst umpiring performance I've ever seen in my life. It's a game when he's with the Marlins and he had like 14 strikeouts and like eight of them were called looking and they were 18 inches off the plate.

Like it was- It was the playoffs, yeah? Yeah, it was one of the worst games I've ever seen in my entire life. I believe the same guy was buying the plate for Maddox's 76th pitch game too. So I'm like, hmm. I think I was thinking of Dennis Martinez.

Dennis Martinez, who you're thinking of? Producer Brian dropping Dennis Martinez in there. And Brian had that about six minutes before you guys did. El Presidente was the nickname. El Presidente. Yeah, Dennis Martinez. Yeah, yeah. So epic name that dude.

Levan, when you said Marlins, then finally. What's Levan's nickname? Ooh, good question. Baseball reference. Marlins then that finally was Levan's nickname. Oh Good question baseball reference Great baseball reference doesn't have one for him. So I don't think he just went by Levan Hernandez. Got it Yeah, he looks like he had to have one. Oh, yeah AI even says he was Didn't have a nickname. Well, I remember Levan is a lot because I was a braids fan growing up So there was there were definitely I think I think it Levan was it Levan Hernandez against Tom Glavin and Eric Greg was the Eric Greg was the umpire when the strike zone was 11 feet wide. Yeah, and it was amazing. I love watching it

It's great. He has a kid. I was like what is happening? away a foot off and he's I was like, what is happening? Furball up and away, a foot off, and he's just like, ah! I'm like, what? Had to be just maddening trying to get that day. Just the most upsetting matchup situation possible. Yeah, great, great umpiring job overall.

It's crazy. Yeah, the silver slugger, I mean, wow, that's right. There used to be a silver slugger for pitchers. I don't want to go back to those days. I don't want to watch pitchers hit again. Even though the occasional pitcher homer was awesome, punctuated by the Bartolo Colon homer in San Diego, that moment was a really fun random moment,

not worth the payoff of most of the other plate appearances where you watch a pitcher bat. Yeah I mean you know Zach Granke is a great hitter for a pitcher. Played shortstop well into his collegiate career I believe or high school career and his batting line for his career is 225, 262, 336, which is a 59 WRC plus. That came up with Madison Bumgarner a lot too. Like yeah, he hits the occasional tank. I think he has like 18 Brono runs.

It's not that fun. Brono, yeah. So Brono's got 24, which is more than Rendon has for the Angels, just so you can throw in that. Oh, I knew that was coming back around. I saw that one on the socials the other day. Yep. Breathing more life into that stat. Well, good work. Bumgarner 19 career home runs, Oh, I knew that was coming back around. I saw that one on the socials the other day Breathing more life into that stat well bum garner and 19 career home runs any 44 WRC plus Hey, great key if you're listening you are better hitter than bum garner who everyone brings up when they talk about hitting pitchers

Great. He's definitely not listening On that note we are going to go just remind a reminder, you can get a subscription to the athletic at theathletic.com slash rates and barrels. Join our discord with the link in the show description. We got one more show to go this week coming back on Friday. Thanks for listening. It's just like bink, bink, bink, bink, you know.