Rates & Barrels - The Outlook in Anaheim with Sam Blum

Episode Date: June 25, 2024

Sam Blum of The Athletic joins Eno and DVR to discuss all things Angels, including the impact of manager Ron Washington during a challenging year, the overall direction of the club with Arte Moreno's decision to continue forward as owner, and the future of Mike Trout.  Rundown 0:43 The Impact of Ron Washington on the 2024 Angels 7:23 Missed Opportunities to Add Depth 11:52 Should the Angels Have Perry Minasian Lead the Rebuild? 17:00 Fast Promotions for Zach Neto & Nolan Schanuel 21:00 Angels Prospects Nearing an Opportunity 26:11 Arte Moreno's Decision to Take the Team Off the Market 31:09 Mike Trout's Future in Anaheim 41:10 José Soriano as a Key Piece of the Core? Follow Eno on Twitter: @enosarris Follow DVR on Twitter: @DerekVanRiper Follow Sam on Twitter: @SamBlum3 e-mail: [e-mail] Join our Discord: https://discord.gg/FyBa9f3wFe Join us on Fridays at 1p ET/10a PT for our livestream episodes! Subscribe to The Athletic: theathletic.com/ratesandbarrels Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to Rates and Barrels, it's Tuesday, June 25th. Derek Van Riper, Eno Saris and Sam Blum joining us today. Welcome to the pod, Sam. Hello, thank you so much for having me. Thanks for making some time. Sam, of course, covers the angels for the athletic, writes about the league as a whole sometimes as well, does a great job on that.

We're gonna talk a lot about the angels today because we have a pretty good sense they're going to be sellers at the trade deadline. So that creates a lot of opportunities, creates a lot of fun topics to sort of pick through. And this is a team that's got a new manager, new for them, not new to baseball, in Ron Washington. And we want to start today just by asking you,

as someone who's on this beat, what do you think the impact of Ron Washington has been on this club? I mean, they're 15 below 500, so it hasn't been winning a lot of games, but on a day-to-day basis, from a player development perspective, what kinds of differences are you seeing in the Ron Washington era?

Well, you know, I heard somebody say the other day that they like lead the league and like team meetings and, you know, extra work. And that's something, you know, the second day of the city, they played one game this year in Baltimore. And then the second day of the season, like 40 degree weather, they had a full team workout at, you know, at the a full team workout at the ballpark on that off day. That's just kind of the tenor of the season. They're just doing a lot of extra work.

I think that it's still up in the air just how much that is helping. I mean, they're a pretty overall sloppy team, make a lot of outs on the bases. That's something that they completely overhauled. I mean, the Angels last year were one of the teams that just didn't really choose to run very much given who they had kind of on their roster at the time. And the roster makeup has changed a little bit but not that much and they're still running like as they've changed everything. So they're basically just trying to be one of the fastest teams in the league with not a ton of

success thus far. So I think what you're seeing is, you know, a team that's maybe trying to change their identity. But overall, like my biggest question with Ron Washington is what's the end game? Because he's on a two year contract. The GM Perry Minazian is on a one year contract right now. A lot of these players are like you mentioned at the top are probably going to be available at the trade deadline. So you know, whatever, you know, kind of position that they're in right now or whatever things he may or may not be doing to

help the, you know, the organization moving forward, I just don't really know where it's all leading. I think that, you know, part of the narrative that's tried that the angels have, you know, to some extent successfully sold for this year is that they are this like young up and coming team that's like akin to what we saw we've seen from the Guardians or the Orioles or the Reds even before this year. And it's just not the case. They just decided to not really spend in free agency and not really assist in their roster construction whatsoever heading into this year. And so they're left with some young players,

many of whom have already had a chance and not really succeeded. I mean, and, you know, I think that there are three great players to build around in terms of Zach Neto, Logan Ohapi and Jose Soriano right now. And I think everybody else right now, it's very much up in the air exactly where this whole thing is headed. So he's done a good job, but to the extent that it matters, Walsh has done, I think, a pretty good job, but to the extent that it matters, I don't really know. And there's also been certain things he's done that's rubbed people the wrong way. Obviously, the Luis Guilherme-Bunt situation

just kind of become an infamous part of the season, where they tried to do a squeeze play, and it was just, it was, I think the thought process behind calling for the squeeze really didn't make any sense. But then also, after the game saying, that wasn't my fault, that was the Yoramay's fault, we threw him right under the bus. So really just a poorly handled situation. And I think that's a concern probably for everybody

who's kind of watching this. It's like, what's the line between accountability and just blaming players and the overall feel in that clubhouse when those types of things happen, I think could possibly jeopardize where this is all headed. So it's been good and there's been bad, but I think to the extent that it matters, it's just very much a... I don't think it matters that much. I just think that they're going to recycle through managers and GMs to the end of time until there's a new owner. One. That's it. Yeah. Well, I, the one thing that intrigues me though, about Ron Washington though,

is I just saw him up close with Marcus Simeon, you know? And he like, really the two of them, and I think that's the key is like the two of them did it. You know, it wasn't just Ron's work. It was that Marcus Simeon was worth, was like willing to put in the work. Oh yeah. And together they made Marcus Simeon was like, willing to put in the work. Oh yeah. And together they made Marcus Simeon into a shortstop

when Simeon probably never was a great shortstop, but they made him, you know, for like, you know, six, seven, eight years, he was a passable, above average shortstop. And that was like a lot of Ron Washington's doing. And I think I saw some of the same with Ozzy Albies in Atlanta, where he just, you know, would link up with a player, the player would be willing to do the work.

It's funny to think that that might not scale because not every player wants to do the same amount of work. I mean, I just figured in my head at some point, oh, maybe he's a good rebuilding, you know, coach, like manager, but, but the manager can't do that with every player. And the way that he's kind of trying to scale that, I think it sounds like, like meetings style, which I think most players are like, Oh God, not another meeting, you know, I think that's, I think you're, you're probably on, I mean, he's really linked up well with Zach Neto. I mean, I think that that's, that is a pairing that really could pay some dividends for the Angels long term because I don't

Think that I was gonna go anywhere Yeah, and I think he might have another level like he's one of the few young players that may be you could develop into another level I think yeah, and he's one of the best defensive shortstop. So I think in baseball this year so far So he's you know, he's someone that is I think benefited from having Warren Washington there he really seems to be coming into his you know not just as a player but kind of you know with the team and his personality so that I agree with you that he's kind of fine he finds guys that I think really want to be coached and and want that but you're but then you're right like in terms of the rebuilding because you need more than Zach Neto and you need more than that's just like

turning one player you you know, yeah. ZACH It's close to 26 players, yeah, as possible, and I just don't, you know, the culture may be better, but the roster also needs to be better. There's so many of the players on this team, and some of them perform well, but a lot of them have come in, and I wrote the story about this, there was like nine, ten, eleven guys who have been in the big leagues so far this year who, you know, have contemplated retirement in the last year. I mean,

they're on the angels. Yeah. They keep getting, and then the angels keep finding them and bringing them up. Like, and it's, and it's just like kind of the makeup of the team. And yeah, I mean, Kevin Pilar has done that and he done it to some really exciting, you know, success. But then, you know, then you also have a Nico Goodrum who comes in for a week and doesn't get a hit and then gets DF8 again. It's been like the F8 three times this year already. And what does like, you know,

adding PR to like the Dodgers or something makes some sense, but adding PR to this team is like, okay, like, well they just need a body. Yeah. That's what, that's what this whole season's been. Yeah. You know, just needing bodies. And, um, and it's like, it's pretty obvious. And they didn't address the depth enough and they didn't address the big league roster at all, at all, really. I mean and they didn't address the depth enough. They didn't address the big league roster at all. At all, really.

I mean, they added some in the bullpen, but even the guys that were added in the bullpen have really not been very good. You know, Adam Simber had a great first month and is now, you know, not doing well at all. He's on the IL. You know, Luis Garcia have been up and down, Matt Moore up and down. You know, Jose Cisnero injured. And they're not developing. I mean, I think that so much of this comes down, you know, Jose Cisnero injured. And they're not developing. I mean, I think that so much as comes down to player development, right? Like player development should turn you out some relievers every year.

And they're yeah, they don't have any of their own guys. Ben Joyce would be the one. Yeah, Ben Joyce. And then I guess Jose Suarez. No, they just DFA him to with with his 90 array could have become untenable. So if they were developing him, it wasn't wasn't going great. Luis Garcia was a free agent, Hunter Strickland, free agent, Matt Moore, free agent, Adam Simber, free agent, Carlos Estevez, free agent.

Ronzi Contreras, waiver claim. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Griffin canning early ish draft pick if you go to the rotation side. But to Eno's point, it is surprising to me. Well, it's a clear missing link in the organization. They cheap out in so many unusual ways. This is where it costs them.

It's the lack of depth. It's having to go get veterans who pondered retirement or to overpay for relievers and free agency because they don't spend some money to do a better job scouting and developing those players along the way, right? You'd think by now, Artie Moreno would have picked up on that as an owner. Like, oh, I could actually save money if I do it this way. Or some GM would have given him the like,

this is what we need to do. We need to do the stuff under the hood. Like somebody should have done, maybe he hears that and he's like, I don't like that sounds like money Yeah, I mean it's and you know I think it's hard to assess the job that Perry Manazian has done, but I also look at you know He's now in his fourth year, so there's not you know there's not the developments not there

I mean the drafts. I mean you look at that member that 2021 infamous all-picture draft They had I mean two of those guys have debuted in the big leagues They're both in the minor leagues now who were the guys that were from the draft still Seth and Bachman who have to be and Everybody else is not a single other player from that draft. That's even in their own very poor top 30 prospects so it's That's like a reflection of just like this these drafts haven't really paid out for them at all and then they're not developing guys, they're not really drafting well. And I think there have been some hits in that draft, like Neto is a great example of a hit.

I think Shannanwell, the jury still out on that, how that will play out. But there's some overall concerning trend lines in terms of his just ability to hit for power and to develop other tools than his bat to ball. So yeah, I mean, I think that there are a lot of reasons why you would say about Perry, man, it's impossible for him to do the job. And I think there's a lot of valid things that you would be able to kind of point to. Yeah, he's not been able to spend the way he probably would. He's not been able to make decisions at the trade deadline in the way that he might do them. But then, you know, at the end of the day, the farm system is probably worse than it was or, you know, on par with where it was when he took over in the Major League roster itself is probably worse.

So I just, you know, and then I also think why are you putting your GM in a position where, you know, he's on his last year of his contract, you know, it's, you know, nobody ever, that's not a good position to be in as a GM. If you't believe in him fire him after last season or extend them but don't don't let him leave mad here to drive bad team. We're watching a little bit of that in San Francisco play out where. a two year extension when he had one year left just to so you didn't have to answer any questions about it. And so that people didn't feel like he was a lame duck guy, but also they don't want to extend him longer than that because they don't know if they trust him. Yeah, I mean, we can talk about the Giants, but they shouldn't necessarily. Right. Well, I think it's even worse with Menaise, at least with Farhan, like he had a 107 win season and like he's done some innovative things and you know, he could maybe make the case

to ownership. I think it'd be really hard preparing Menaise to make the case to ownership right now that he's done a great job. But when do you pull the plug and how far do you pull the plug is one of the questions I had for you. It's like, you know, do you let him do the selling off? And do you let him do the selling off to the point where he's trading away Mike trout who people have put into a Giants uniform, or Taylor Ward, who's cheap for a couple of years? Like, how far do you think they'll go with it or will it just be Kevin PR and Brandon Drury and Carlos Estevez and and and a new GM at the winter meetings.

I mean listen if you're gonna have a GM you have to just let him you this is the angels problem if you're gonna have a GM the GM should be the one that makes these decisions you obviously you're working with the owner to you know. Obviously, you're working with the owner to pinpoint a strategy overall, but the GM should be the one who's overall making these calls at the end of the day to some extent. But yeah, I think that they need a full overhaul. I think the big question is how many of these guys who are in their arbitration stage, are they going to be willing to trade? Now they lost one yesterday and Patrick Sandoval is going to miss, you know, possibly up until 2026 after, you know, tearing his UCL. Um, so that's, that's a concern. I mean, Brandon Drury, you mentioned him.

I don't know if he has any trade value. Yeah. I mean, there's, there's, there's a question of who has trade value. Does Luis Garcia have trade value? Does Miguel Sano have trade value? I have no idea. No, I mean, Sano is like, won't even bring them up to the, they have them. They're kind of like manipulating

his overall situation right now because they're you know, he's healthy, but he's still in a rehab. I mean, Walden Washington actually said that like he's healthy. We're just you know, a spot for him right now. So he's like still in his rehab. So I mean, I don't even really I don't know.

I look at this as as they need to make a full, full, full scale change and they need to trade Taylor Ward probably you know you gotta look at the recent he foes has value. You know I think Joe Adele is one of those that is interesting in the sense that he's had a pretty bad season but there's enough in there that I think teams would be intrigued by having on their team. enough in there that I think teams would be intrigued by having him on their team. Maybe not like for a super high value or you trade the guys around him and just play Adele all year and just, you know, that's what they're doing now. I mean, these are playing every day and it's the end. And you know, he started out real hot first month of the season and then man, the last six weeks have just been like he's got like 10 hits.

I mean, Adele and Moniac, if you have them out in the same outfield, that's like the get the worst play discipline in baseball. like he's got like 10 hits. I mean Adele and Moniac, if you have them out in the same outfield, that's like the worst play discipline in baseball. Oh yeah, yeah, I think that's a fair assessment. You know, and they're, you know, they show flashes. I mean, it's in there, it's in there. Moniac had a good year last year. Would you trade Detmers?

Detmers' value's at an all time low right now. So I think that he's someone that has that potential to be, you know, a one or a two in any rotation. And if you're training him at the lowest point when he's really struggled, that being said, I don't know really where this is all going for him because he's now in his fourth major league season and the ups and downs have been so significant that it's hard to feel like it's maybe gonna pay off at some point with him. So, it's just a lot.

They're kind of entering this trade deadline stage where not a lot of these guys have incredibly high value too, which is a concern. I think Tyler Anderson is a name that needs to go. Ward probably has value. I mean, that's a- Ward has value. Four million dollar player that's under arbitration for two more years. He's a that's a word of value four million dollar players and arbitration two more years is a solid regular. Yeah and yeah you can plug him in i mean you plug him in anywhere really i'm sure like it be pb playing on almost every team in the big leagues. So i think that's you know that's that's how you restart i mean that's like you're gonna if you want to restart which i think is necessary if they keep these guys and just say hey,

And if you want to restart, which I think is necessary, if they keep these guys and just say, hey, you know, we're going to see what we can do next year, then it's no different than what happened this season. And I'm certain I would be concerned if I was an Angels fan that they keep these players and as much as, you know, Angels fans maybe like Taylor Ward or like Luis Renefo, and those are good players, or they like Tyler Anderson, guys who have performed for you this year, it's just not, you know, what you need is to restart with guys that you have full control over for long periods of time that can develop into, you know, what you need is to restart with, with, with guys that you have full control over for long periods of time that can, that can develop into, you know, major league players, you know, maybe next year, maybe the year after, but it is,

it would be conceding that next season probably will not go your way. That seems pretty obvious from now. Like, I mean, what would they, it's not going to go your way anyway. That's the thing they don't realize. They're always, they don't, it would be a first for Artie in the sense that he goes into a season, not trying to sell people on a competitive roster. And I don't know how that will play out and I don't necessarily think it will happen because of that reason because he just won't ever do that.

But I've also never seen a fan base like the Angels that is as willing to accept a rebuild. They'd probably be excited about that at this point, something different. Yeah. willing to accept a rebuild. They'd probably be excited about that at this point, something different. Yeah, because you know, all Angels fans are excited about the, you know, I think this fake story that the Angels are trying to selling people, which is that they're like this up and coming rebuilding club right now, which is not the case.

They're just, this is what they do every September. They're starting it early. It's really strange too. I mean, given the way they've handled Neto and Chanuel and just pushing those guys through the miners as quickly as they have. I think Neto has three times as many played appearances or three times as many games played with the angels that he had in the minor leagues. That's how fast he moved through the system. That's the thing. What they did with, especially with Chanuel, I mean, you know, the guy played

like 40 minor league games. I think it was less than that. It was even less. Maybe like 14. And I'm like, that seemed like a very irresponsible thing to me. And to me, I still wonder if him being in the major leagues right now is the right thing because he's not performed that well. And I don't know if the ups and downs of dealing with, you know, right now he's in the middle of, I think, an 0 for 14, 0 for 15 slump. He's had some hot streaks, but then goes on these long slumps. And, and, and you, I don't know if that's, there's a benefit to having a 22 year old

who's played, who's had almost no experience, even just using a wooden bat, you know, like playing in the big leagues. Uh, I'm sure he'll get there at some point, but it's, you know, he gets a lot of criticism and I, which is fair because he's in the big leagues, because the angels are subjecting him to that. If he's in the minor leagues and doing whatever he does, no one notices it. He's allowed to develop at his own pace and get to the big leagues when he's ready. And you know, you could, you could say, yeah, I mean, he can, he can step on a big league field and not embarrass himself and have a six 40 OPS and, you know, play mediocre to

somewhat decent defense, but it doesn't really matter that. I mean, it doesn't really seem like the smart thing to me. Cause whole career seems to me that's going to swing on whether or not he can hit for power and I'm not sure. That's something that he's going to develop at the major league level. That is the one thing where I could see sending him back down because hitting for power probably requires some mechanical changes, some approach changes, maybe even some training changes. Maybe sometimes we're like, you, you can't play in the game because you're in the

midst of some sort of training process. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I mean, I just, yeah, he needed time. Like he needed to, to not be called up, but you know, he hits the ball. His, the hardest he's ever hit the balls on one or three. Nine is like Luis Arias, you know. It's a.

Yeah. And he's only got one ball farther than 400 feet in his career. That was last weekend in San Francisco. I don't know if the wind dated or whatever, but I don't remember exactly, but it's he's not, you know, playing in Anaheim is probably probably the best place for him to play in terms of the dimensions of the ballpark because the power alley in right field is the shortest. That's just like, that's fake. That's not. Yeah.

So that's why he's eight homers. I think in most other ballparks, he probably have fewer. So he's almost queues the power numbers a little bit since he's just doesn't, he doesn't have it right now. And, you know, his one experience with a wood bat league in college was not good. So yeah, he did not get, we did not get the requisite, you know, one experience with a wood bat league in college was not good So I yeah, he did not get we did not get the requisite You know time to prepare and now he's in the big leagues and kind of being left out to dry in certain certain areas I mean, he's probably performed better than I would have expected given the overall, you know

Just ridiculousness of calling up a player that quickly but um, you know They also and the angels have they drafted in for a need. How often do teams do that? I've heard people talking about that, you know in the clubhouse among other writers and stuff You know, and he also and the angels have they drafted in for a need. How often do teams do that? I've heard people talking about that, you know, in the clubhouse among other writers and stuff. And I'm always like, you know, teams don't do that. Like they're like, oh, why would they draft this guy? They have this guy. And I'm like, they don't care.

Like they just want the guy to be good or not. You know, they could trade him. They could trade the older guy. You know, you know, there's no tunes. Don't normally do that. The angels. Yes. The all pitching draft was just like, we need pitchers.

And like, Sean, who was like, we need a first baseman. They didn't even work. Right. Like it's, it's. It's why teams don't do that. Cause they'd rather focus on just getting the best possible player without any sort of plan here. There's no plan.

It never was a plan. And I'm skeptical that any GM could come in here and establish some sort of concrete. Like this is how we're going to do it. But it certainly hasn't been parried so far. So at least one is not articulated one. If all these guys get traded out, is there anything to look forward to? I mean, you know, there's if they do open up an outfield spot or with jewelry, maybe an infield spot, you know, you know, is it just going to be like snow coming up after a trade or are there some young players that that some

you can kind of circle? I mean, they have some other players that could rush. Really, they I mean, they have, I think, two prospects that are at somewhat high level. I mean, a Kate and Dana is probably the best prospect right now. And even he, I think, is almost an unfair situation because because he's the best prospect, I think people expect him to be like the next Nolan Ryan or, you know, whatever coming up. And it's just he's he's probably a pretty decent big league starter in a rotation at some point in his career but is he an ace? I

don't know the answer to that and I think that everyone kind of expects him to be that guy. And is he ready at 20 and double? 20 years old and and I think that the angels have have left the door open for you know what we saw from Reid Detmer is in 2021 when you know they made some trades in the deadline and called him up. I wouldn't be shocked if that's the way that this plays out. I don't know for sure that it will, but I think that's something you could see, especially since he's had a pretty good year in AA, a very good year in AA. The other guy, and I don't think he'll get called up, Nelson Rada is only 18 or 19 maybe

at this point. So he's another high level prospect for them that I think would be a pretty good prospect in any organization, but you know, beyond that. He's not really hitting for power and he's. He's got one homer I think, yeah, he's got no power yet. I mean, I'm sure it'll grow into that to some extent, but at AA it's tough to, you know, at that age to be really hitting home runs.

I just, I don't think that there's many other guys that that we're gonna that are gonna get people excited. I mean, Kyron Parris has been up a few times and not performed necessarily yet. He was really I mean, they just to give you an idea of where the angels were like, you know, they called up Kyron Parris who was hitting 091 and double A to be on the big league team. So that's where they were at. It's interesting that Parris's line at AAA is all right. Is that where he went back to after? So A, AAA might have worse pitching than AA.

Probably, especially in that altitude. Oh yeah, and then the altitude is helping him. But then B, he kind of went back to AAA after seeing Major League pitching and probably was like, this is a little bit easier. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm not, I don't rule anything out with current Paris.

I mean, again, I just think it's kind of almost like the K and Dana situation where it's like, you have a couple, you have some guys that like in, in other organizations, I think some of these guys would, you know, be able to develop a little bit more obscurity, but with the angels, they don't have anybody else. So this is, this is who get people get excited about. I'm sure we'll see those guys, you know, I'm sure we'll see Kyron Paris back up big league level this year at some point. There's still a lot of questions about him like in terms of power in terms of strike

outs. Yeah, there's a lot of questions. You know, he sees the ball well, he takes walks and stuff like that. But you're at the swing and miss the power. I mean, there's a lot of questions. There's a lot of questions with everything here. I don't really think that there's I mean, you know, I imagine if they're calling guys up later in the year, it's probably more of the.

Oh, there's Jake Maris, Nick and Triple A still so they can fill a hole. That's what I think more likely. Right. Like the snow thing, right? Like we just got a guy. We're going to give him a shot. Yeah, just we need bodies. There's a chance they're going to draft someone at eight that's going to play in the big leagues again at the end of this season,

regardless of the fate of this team. I think Keith Law's latest mock draft had Hagen Smith, the lefty from Arkansas going there. I don't think you should put more innings on his arm necessarily, especially in a starting role. They got to be careful if they do something like that. I mean, they always say like, we don't care about that stuff. Like, you know, like Sam Bachman, I think pitched, I think I

crawled correctly when he, after he got drafted and people were like, why? You know, cause a lot of teams don't do that. Yeah. You did sometimes they draft them and then that's the end of them for the year. They can like hang out, they can, they can work out, but they don't they don't play Well, they'll have minimal innings and like Arizona or whatever but no, I mean those guys are like Sam Bachman was like called a double-a, you know, and It's and look what's happened. I mean he cannot stay health, you know, they pushed him last year and he's now not healthy

I don't know if that's a correlated thing if he's just injury prone But regardless a lot of a lot of bad decisions were made. So yeah, I just don't, I, I think it's possible as Derek said that they're going to draft someone at number eight and then they're going to look to call them up and they maybe will go below slot or something like that to try to, you know, have a, have, you know, more options later on in the draft. They've done that. I think the last couple of years. It's not really exciting to me. I mean, you just feel like you'd want to get the highest upside guy.

And you know, it's also weird is like if it is Perry doing it, like, you know, he's going to be like, oh, let's get somebody who can help right away. My job's on the line. Got to get somebody in here. Make me look better. I mean, maybe probably the best decision for this team. You know, another thing that's just weird for me look better. I mean, maybe probably the best decision for this team. You know, another thing that's just weird for me just you we mentioned a couple of times the Artie Moreno factor and that's obviously, you know, behind a lot of this, but he put

the team up for sale like run me through that like he just didn't get the offer he wanted or he thought it would be was it just just a, was it a temper tantrum? Like some part of it read like a temper tantrum. I have some theories that I don't know how responsible they'd be to share. I can give you like the outline of those theories. I think the timing is important. All I'm going to do is lay out the timeline and maybe people can make their own inferences based on it.

But you know, this came in August of 2022. You know, we had kind of been told that there was like a, you know, a couple months of discussions went into it. And if you kind of rewind a couple months, you know, that was when the land deal fell through with the stadium and a lot of legal, you know, the story hasn't, what did never really go too national, but it was a very fascinating story

with the Anaheim mayor getting indicted and,, you know, and that was already boy or something. Well, I mean, there's this, this idea that, you know, I don't want to, I don't know, I don't want to misquote exactly how everything went down, but, uh, just that was already done a deal with the angels had done a deal with, with the Anaheim mayor, basically the, you know, the city council eventually decided was not done properly and so And as a result, you know part of the there was an FBI investigation and the Anaheim mayor was indicted and all this stuff happened So I don't know if there's any court see I missed I missed some of these details dude, like yeah, I missed some of this I remember the land deal. I don't remember that's how it went down. That's amazing Yeah

So he was just trying to get a sweetheart deal and buying the land from the city around it, like the parking lots and stuff. Or it seems that way. So, um, I don't know if there's any correlation there. I wouldn't, I would not, I'm not saying that there is, um, but you know. But has he started making noise about needing a new stadium? No. Uh, but he also, there's not been any commitment that they're going to like re-up this lease, which goes to like I think 2038

mistaken Okay, so there's some time but also I mean when you're talking about stadiums and stuff like that, that's not a lot That's not that much time, especially if there's a possibility of leaving the stadium or moving in, you know, whatever it might be so and especially when you're talking about an owner who's 77 years old and has no successor in place and no real plan for himself and team. So there's no Moreno juniors that are gonna run the team into the ground like they did at the Angeles juniors. There is no Moreno juniors who are interested in,

there are Moreno's children, but they did not want the team. Can you imagine? Can you imagine being the child of a professional sports franchise owner and having this mindset of, I don't want that. I just don't want to deal with that. It sounds like a lot of work. Yeah, it's not like baseball, I guess. Yeah, I agree.

I mean, if I could just like have somebody be like, you want my team? Yeah, of course. Even if it's a disaster, I'll take it. I'll happily try to do something fun with it. But Artie's story was that he just loves baseball and just wants to, you know, got cold feet or whatever, just wants to... I just, I roll my eyes at that. I think there's just got to be things in the dynamic that changed, that caused him to want

to keep the team off the market and you know, I don't know why. I mean, I don't what I don't get is why do you want this team? You don't seem to want to spend on it. Doesn't seem to want to like make it any good. I don't know. That's true. I mean, like the Pujols and Rendon deals like had his kind of fingerprints on it and

then he hadn't done anything since then. And that's what I'm saying. Like since this since he pulled back on the since then and that's what I'm saying. Since he pulled back on selling the team, what is the purpose? I definitely agree with you that in years past, he's like at the very least done things that would suggest he wants to win, but that has not been the case the last couple of years since he decided to keep the team off the market. So what is it that you're keeping it for?

Because you're not trying to win. It's just all you're doing is getting public ridicule, which is more than fair. You know, I mean, they had he was in that, you know, their pregame montage and they got boot on opening night and then pulled himself from the video because that's just that's just like, what are you doing? You know, the fans here want him gone. You know, I think if the A's weren't as much of a disaster

as they have been, if the White Sox weren't even worse than the Angels in terms of the way that they're running their franchise. I think Artie would be getting way more publicity for how bad this is all going and how ridiculous all the decisions that he's made have kind of played out. So, you know, there's so much like covering for Artie and I just think there's no way to defend some of this stuff and I don't understand why he still wants to own this team. And, you know, he won't come out and say really anything. At least not to me, only to the OC register. So yeah, we haven't talked about trout and he's hurt right now, of course. I think about the big picture because he signed the mega deal.

He signed through 2030. It doesn't seem like Mike Trout is the type of person who will publicly insist on leaving at the same time. How long is Mike Trout going to be content to play out the back half of his career in a place where the chances of winning are amazingly close to zero. I mean they had Trout and Shohei Otani and got nowhere, which is just unbelievable in terms of the talent and the output just being so far out of alignment. The success did not follow the quality of those two players. So what's the end game for Trout, given the nature of that deal and who he is and,

and the uncertainty around who might even be running this franchise a year or two from now. I think if Trout wanted to leave, or if he wanted this franchise to be better, there were, there are things that he should have done by now that he hasn't. Um, you know, if you wanted to make the Angels more competitive, I feel, I mean, he came out in spring training and said he wished they would sign some more free agents and they didn't. But I mean, I think that he's waited so long to be critical of the, and he's loyal and he cares and he wants to win here. But at some point he needed, I think, to use his voice a

little bit more to say, and his with with everybody to say, hey, like, this isn't good enough. And he just never did. I mean, they're I mean, I've been there for three years now, literally three years today. And it's like, I've never, you know, for so many times, I've asked him, what do you think about the direction? And he just kind of copped out and says, like, Oh, we got some good young players, isn't that? And it's like, okay. What if he was just like buying the like, cause they players aren't

always the best GMs. I'm not, I'm not trying to say he's dumb. I'm just saying that like, maybe he like, was, Hey, we got Otani. We've got, you know, Detmer's looked awesome. I think he's uncontroversial. I don't think he's like a very smart baseball mind in my opinion who sees the stuff and his understanding of it. But I just think he does not want to deal with criticism and controversy at any point. So it's like the it's more like a Jeter thing. Like where Jeter wouldn't really give you a quote about anything.

Yeah, I think that's probably if you wanted to be Teflon, you just want to be Teflon. A fair comp here. Yeah, you know, he just never he's not come out and said, hey, like, and he doesn't need to be a GM. It doesn't say we need to get this guy or this guy or this guy. What he needed to do is be like, we need more like we just need you. We need the focus to be on winning right now. And I don't feel like it is. I feel like if he said that at any point in the last several years, you know, this might be a whole different conversation as it relates to being traded. I think it's very similar. Like if you wanted to get traded, I think the ship has sailed

on that. I mean, who who's gonna take on his contract? I mean he's been out have to be like half path paid down or something even that I mean You know, he's he's not gone on eight weeks since Terry's meniscus and there's not even like a sign of him running This is whatever yeah, you were reporting on that. What why what was that? What did that come from? Like he's just he, he just thinks it's within the realm of normal. It's just, this is slow. Well, it's just like every injury for him is like turning out to be like this. I mean, last year with his broken handmaid guys come back from that a lot quicker.

He came back for one game, but otherwise he missed half the season with the broken handmaid. So that was anomalous to that injury. The calf strain in 2021, I mean, that was supposed to be six to eight weeks in the middle of May, didn't play the whole year. So he's just, I think that with Mike, there's a couple of things. He does not like playing unless he's fully a hundred percent. He has seen what his talent can be like, and he doesn't want to play in anything that compromises that. And I think that's also accepting maybe that there are some limitations with his age.

And, you know, I just don't, you know, this is the guy who's been known as the kid. This is a guy who's been known as like the youthful face of baseball. And now I think he's maybe he's having a hard time accepting the reality that like that time is probably passed him in that his prime maybe is past. So what can he be now? How can you know? Can he? I think that maybe we'll require him to D.H. more when he gets back. Play corner outfield more like that.

Keep him healthy. Preserve his health so that way he can be a productive hitter. Is the most important thing for the Angels right now. So you don't even think this will change. Like I feel like with Otani, you can tell yourself. My point with that was a little bit was like, you can tell yourself, we've got the two best players in the game. You know, if you're, especially if you're trying, you're still counting yourself as the best player in the game, right?

Like, so you say you had two best players in the game. We got this guy, we got this guy. I feel like you can't tell yourself that about next year's team. No, I mean, I don't think there's anybody on this roster right now that's going to be, it's even going to a top. 20 player next year. Right so I just but you still don't think it's it's gonna change for him reason I just I'm tired of someone. I mean he might I think my point is less that it's possible he might say that or he might feel that way but I don't really see the recourse for that to change. Even if you were if you were one I think the best the only route for him to have gotten traded this year is if he were really good and the team were really bad, which actually the first

month of the season seemed like that was kind of going in that direction. But you know, I just have a hard time believing that somebody is going to want to take on years of Mike Trout at $35 million a year. And with this risk of significant risk of him getting hurt and then being out a prolonged period of time while he is hurt. And it's a tragic way to go to to kind of whittle down his career because he is probably at his peak the greatest hitter of all time or one of the greatest hitters of all time. But um no greatest players overall but it's it's like it's a sad thought to think that he's going

to be just on this bad ball club. I think you might be right. We, we, we like to do things like this and I put players on teams and you know, if you look at actually what's happened in terms of moving money, um, you could move Eric Hosmer in the last year of his deal. You can't even move Eric Hosmer at like 18 million a year, you know, with three years left and that pales pretty much in comparison to Mike Trout. I mean, we're talking- The name Mike Trout might be enough for a team just to be like, we got Mike Trout on our team.

And you know, maybe we can, to really, you know, maybe he'll be reinvigorated or want to be here. I mean, it would be something like, five, six, seven, eight, nine. So it'd be six years and one hundred and ninety million dollars. Two hundred million dollars. Maybe if you could get half of that paid down and you're paying one hundred million dollars for six years.

But then you're still not giving up a lot of talent to do that. No, no. Relative to what you would need as a franchise, what the angels need, it's only gonna be one small step in the direction you need to go to get better in the long run. And then you're trading away your franchise high con too. So it's gonna be unpopular and unproductive potentially. I don't see it happening.

I just don't. And I honestly don't know if he wants to be traded. I just, he doesn't seem to want to go. He's in semi-retirement phase now. I don't know what's happening with him. I find it odd that he's just like these recoveries consistently takes so long He's been hanging out with Rando too much. I

Mean Rando has also been out now for quite a while and he's making some progress was it a hamstring strain Yeah, he said he had a torus hamstring or whatever and he's been out since like early April Or mid-april. Oh, well if he tore it, I guess the strain is a tear so it's always just a question of defense. Yeah I mean it sounded like it was a somewhat significant one but I mean, again, I never know with him. I just, I almost like, try to, I just try to avoid it at this point. Like you know, all the chaos of it, I mean the big thing with Rendon is like is he really

gonna keep doing this ever, I mean, is he to do this totally just till that money is done? I mean, he really does not seem to want to be there. So it doesn't seem like he needs the money anymore either. And he's talked about having more important things in his life. So at some point he could just walk away, but it's a lot of money to walk away from. We've seen with Strasburg that it gets a little awkward because the team's sure if you let us not pay some of that you can retire the order you know. Remember how Strasburg came was like yeah I'm retiring and then they were like yeah we're not gonna pay and he's like oh I'm not retiring was. Yeah that was someone who was it was the Nats and Strasburg like this I don't even really mean the angels in iran donor like this.

Strasburg like this I don't even really I mean the angels in a randon are like just It's like they just are there together because it's like contractually obligated if they're not there's no like history there There's no success there. There's not even like a basis of there, you know corgi ality there They're gonna DFA him I You know, I don't know maybe I don't think they're gonna DFA him because it's like, you know I mean maybe the last year of his deal They would they kind of got me how they did something similar with like Justin Upton and our foo holes and stuff like that But he's not even like a distraction almost like at this point like he's just you know, he's just not around Yeah, he just shows I don't think like his teammates just I think teammates like him to some extent, you know

I don't think he's like a bad guy to have around necessarily. He just doesn't add anything. And it's like, yeah, you don't add anything. You're banning Pay 38 million. He wakes up every day, and there's another $250,000 in his bank account. And that's not, he's earned that. I mean, I think anybody who's making Major League money, they've earned that.

So I don't want to belittle it. But at the same time, he's not playing time, like he's not, he's not playing anymore and he's not earning it further. And, um, you know, some of that's bad luck with injuries and some of it, I feel like it was just, you know, or if it, if there is anything, I mean, I think he's just lost benefit of the doubt for everyone believing that, you know, he's, he's, uh, he's trying hard to get trying his best and he's trying his hardest. Um, you know, he may well be, but I don, but I don't think he's earned that default mindset from people.

From his comments. Yeah, that totally makes sense. So at the beginning, you were talking about the core for this Angels team. You mentioned Jose Soriano's name. And of course, in Fantasy Circles, he has been noticed over the course of the season. I think the Angels have a bit of a problem with Soriano that's not completely unique from what the White Sox are dealing with with Garrett Crochet and that they have this guy who's a great pitcher who has an extensive injury history that I think other teams

would be pretty interested in and you have to kind of decide in the front office, okay we like this guy but are we going to be good while he is still healthy and good or does he help us actually get somewhere? I don't think the return will be anywhere close to what the White Sox could get in a Garrett crochet trade But I do think Jose Soriano is very interesting. So what have you seen from him so far this year? And what kind of ceiling do you think Soriano has I think he's got a really high ceiling I think he's a really really really starting pitcher to be honest with you Hmm, and yeah, I mean that's a really, really, really starting pitcher, to be honest with you. Hmm. And yeah, I mean, that's a tough one because you're right. You know, he's currently on the IL.

I don't anticipate it's just a rift at infection. So I don't anticipate it being like a super long thing. And that it could, I mean, if it does get longer, maybe that could play a role in terms of like how a team might, um, value him. I think one of the other questions with value with him is that he's never pitched more than like 80 innings in any professional season. And right now he's kind of like already bordering on that. So how much can he give you down the stretch of the season is a big question. So, can he pitch in the playoffs? Like I think you'd want to have him, if you were to trade for him this year, you'd want to have him available to pitch in the postseason.

And then at that point, you might be really, really pushing him. And the angels are a franchise that doesn't seem to really care about pushing guys beyond maybe what they should be but I think other teams would be like that's a huge risk especially considering he's in two Tommy John surgeries already. So to answer your question I mean I think that I'd be a little surprised if they traded him because I just don't think they would get that value back that they maybe see him being worth. But yeah, I mean, they also need to just restart. I personally think if you're restarting, he's someone you build around. And I think Ohapi and Neto are the other two guys. And I think everybody else at that point is either fair game or just keep him, you leave him, doesn't really matter that much. But I like those three players.

And I think that they're kind of like the those those building blocks and maybe redemptor's too. But, you know, it's just not it's not clicking for him so far. You know, I said it before, I think three is a core three can be a core. I don't know if those three can be a franchise core. But I do think you're right. Those are the building blocks that you are anticipating. Those are the core right now. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And they could be a core if you like, you're turning. Those are the building blocks that you are anticipating. Those are the core right now. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

And they could be a core if you're like, you're turning out decent guys and you're paying and you're buying good players in free agency. And like, like, you know, if you look at other teams in the past, like if you look at like even the Astros, the one at all, like, and you try to be like, who's the young core? You end up getting around for, you know, four guys or whatever. Not like the Rangers, like what the Rangers did is not that complicated. I mean, they were really bad 2020 and 2021. And they knew they had a bunch of kids coming up and they went and spent on superstars and they did better spending, I think than the A's did.

They bought better players. Yeah. Although they had a lot on the IL themselves. Yeah. They, they, they knew that. They had a plan in place and they knew the timeline of when that plan would kind of come to fruition. And, you know, obviously, they're not having a great year this year, but there is a championship team in there. So and a key, I think, was just knowing like that they had the capability of developing at least bats. Yeah.

You know. And so they were like, you know, if somebody goes down, we've got, you know, we've got young, we've got the Ezekiel Duran. It's not somebody you get super excited about. I say Ezekiel Duran is part of our core, but you're like, Oh, we're happy. We have Ezekiel Duran when Corey Seeger goes down or whatever, you know? So it's, they just, the angels don't have any of that. They're not like, Oh yeah. When they, when they pull somebody up, it's somebody who's drafted last year.

That's why I'm just like, I roll my eyes at this, you know, this whole like the kids are playing and you know, the young, you know, it's just it's okay. Yeah, that's a nice thought. And yeah, I mean, I guess you're playing young players, but that's not like by design. It's kind of like the Rockies said, like, we want to be like the rays. You're like. Yeah. Yeah. This is like the angels saying, I'm going to be like the Orioles. Yeah. OK.

Yeah, totally looks like the Orioles to me. Yeah. Yeah. It's like. Jokes on us that they all take another another step forward and it looks good. Next year, I just don't take another step forward. I don't think they would still want to give me good. They're 15 below 500 on June 25th. So the way they'd be eight below 500, if everyone took a small step forward.

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. It would be at maximum, I think, that's what we're talking about. And you know, I mean, not a lot of these guys have, so some of them have taken steps back this year. Yeah, unfortunately, you can go the other way as well. Sam, thanks so much for taking the time to join us today.

We appreciate all your time and your insight. Where can people follow you on Twitter? Follow me at SamBlum3 on Twitter, please. I appreciate you having me on. Yeah, read the articles and let me know. Anything in the works coming up that you want to pimp? Yeah, but God, it's going through such a weird editing process I don't want to talk about it just just wait it's gonna be great when it gets out refreshing the

page yeah you've done some great stories this year off the angels beat now on the angels beat so thanks thanks for coming by of course thanks for having me guys talk to her all right that's gonna do it for this episode of Rates in Barrels. If you want to subscribe to the athletic, you can do that at theathletic.com slash rates and barrels. Find Eno on Twitter at EnoSaris. Find me at Derek van Riper. Find the pod at rates and barrels. We are back with you on Thursday. Thanks for watching!