Rates & Barrels - The playoff race heats up, new NL MVP candidates, and the ceiling in Seattle

Episode Date: September 3, 2021

Eno, Britt & DVR try to determine the three best teams in each league, their World Series picks with just over one month to go in the regular season, new candidates emerging for the NL MVP award, the brightness of the future in Seattle, and more.  Follow Eno on Twitter: @enosarris Follow Britt on Twitter: @Britt_Ghiroli Follow DVR on Twitter: @DerekVanRiper e-mail: [e-mail] Subscribe to the Rates & Barrels YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/RatesBarrels Get 50% off a subscription to The Athletic: theathletic.com/ratesandbarrels Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to Rates and Barrels, presented by Topps. Check out Topps Project 70, celebrating 70 years of Topps baseball cards. Derek Van Ryper, Eno Saris, Britt Giroli here with you on this Thursday night slash Friday morning, depending on when you consume this pod. Hopefully everybody out there can enjoy something resembling a longer weekend with the holiday coming up on Monday. I think we're all in need of a little downtime here. But lots to talk about on today's show. We'll check in on the playoff races with just one month to go before the postseason begins. We will talk about the Mets, who have become masters of fan engagement recently.

And we'll look at September call-ups for some possible impact players that have been called up here with roster expansion happening on Wednesday. Let's go right after it and start with the playoff races. Britt threw a question at us on Slack that I want to open with. Do we want Yankees Red Sox in the AL wildcard game? And I think when it was thrown at me this morning, Ian Kahn said, how about Garrett Cole versus Chris Sale in a one game playoff? And that got me pretty excited. So my snap answer to your question, Britt, is yeah, I think I do want that on the condition that it is, in fact, Cole versus Sale. Yeah. Well, right now Cole is lined up already for that wildcard game. So, you know, if you're the Yankees and I think they kind of have resigned themselves to being the wildcard team,

they don't have to worry about trying to pitch Garrett Cole that last series down in Tampa. It should already be decided by then, which is kind of good. If they were closer to Tampa, they would run that kind of risk of, should we pitch Garrett Cole and try and win the division? But then, oops, we don't have Garrett Cole for the wildcard. So I kind of agree with you. I think as long as the Red Sox aren't decimated by COVID

and we get to see a good game, yes. Oakland Yankees would be really good too, just because Oakland is pesky. We never know what they're going to do, and anything can happen in a one-game wild card. But think about the ratings. Some history there too, right? There would be a rematch.

Not the same amount of history as Red Sox-Yankees, though, I guess. Yeah, not quite the same as that rivalry, but I think that'd be a perfectly fine AL wildcard game. I think the bigger question, though, that Britt threw at us, which is also a great question, is who are the three best teams in each league? And for me, the American League is really easy. Finding the third team in the National League was particularly difficult. So I thought in the AL, it's Rays, Astros, White Sox, in that order. To me, those are the three

best teams in the American League right now. And that's not to say that the Yankees or the Red Sox couldn't do damage in the postseason. I think they certainly could. There's enough good on those rosters for those teams to hold their own against those first three. But I think the NL is way less clear. The Dodgers and the Brewers seem like they're kind of in their own little tier right now. But I'm curious who you each think is the third best team in the NL right now. What do you think, you know? Until, like, was it two days ago the Giants had the best record in baseball? Rough week. I don't know. We attended a game where they didn't look amazing, and then the Brewers kind of tore their doors off, really.

I mean, even with the win today for the Giants, I think that they, I don't know, the Brewers look like the better team. Even today, there was like a Domus foul ball in the ninth that might have cut it to 5-3 if it had been a foot more fair. So, I don't know. I say the Giants, though, I guess. Yeah. Braves?

No. Yeah, clearly. I was going to say, isn't it kind of funny that nobody, we're not even going to debate that it's the NL East, whoever wins in the NL East. and the NL East. It's got to be the Giants. You could make the case that the Padres have wildly underperformed, but they're still probably better than whoever wins the NL East, right? Is that what you guys feel like?

I think so. I agree. I'm going to go with Giants. I'm so glad that the topics that I threw out there are being used on this show, Derek. Hey, come on. I'm always open to ideas. I think it's a good time of year to sit and we only have a month left and I think it's really easy to say this is how

it's going to go because this is how the month started and that's because nobody can ever imagine 10 game losing streaks and 13 game win streaks. They're hard to predict. I will say when we're talking about teams that may sneak in, if the Cardinals get into the playoffs, they could be very dangerous.

Let's keep in mind that 10 years ago, a wildcard team from St. Louis won the entire thing. So I think we talk a lot about strength of schedule with a lot of these teams. Like, if the Padres make it in and make it through the wildcard, would you want to play them? They've basically been playing only playoff teams for the last month, right? Isn't there something to be said for strength of schedule if you can manage to make it through? Same thing with the Cardinals. They have a tough schedule too. Versus like if the Phillies sneak in and they've been playing, you know, the Orioles basically and the Pirates, then all of a sudden they're playing the Brewers and Woodruff's throwing 97 wherever he wants. And they're like, whoa, is this the same league?

You know, I think there's something to be said for like strength of schedule on the flip side that, you know, everyone is talking about it and using it as a predictor. And that's great. Except the Colorado Rockies are 107 win team at home. So they really throw a wrench into the predictor, depending on where you have the Rockies.

They're a losing team, yes, but nobody wants to play them at home. No, playing at Coors Field when your season is on the line, even if they have nothing to play for, it's like playing in a funhouse. It's terrible. It's not fun at all.

It's just miserable. I like this idea, though, because everyone's talking about how bad the San Diego Padres schedule is, but if they make it through, they make it through because their pitchers are all going on all cylinders. Like their big four, their sort of front four starting pitchers get it back together,

and their Musgrove, Darvish, Paddock, and Snell are all just clicking. That's how they make the playoffs because the opponents are so good. They have to beat the Dodgers. They have to beat really good teams to get in. And the only way to do that is to sort of click as a team. So yeah, I kind of think that if the Padres make the postseason, I think they're about as dangerous as anybody else. In fact, I could almost make the argument for them over the Giants. Because I see some high-end talent there that I'm not sure the Giants have. And if they're all clicking, then it's sort of a different conversation.

Yeah, I think there's a few keys for the Padres. One more recently has become Hugh Darvish, who is not pitching very well. They've been able to fix Blake Snell, like we talked about on Wednesday's show, in part by just simplifying the arsenal, ditching the changeup. They have to get Darvish right to be their most dangerous self, to be a legitimate, good playoff team. They need three healthy, quality starters. I think Snell's pushed his way back into

that group just as Darvish has temporarily fallen out of it. So if it's a health related thing, I don't think the Padres have the luxury of giving him rest right now. They have to keep pushing him out there because my concern with the Padres a couple of weeks ago was that they'd go through this difficult stretch of schedule, but they would burn out their bullpen over the final month of the season. So the bullpenning approach they were using a year ago in the playoffs wouldn't be as effective because so many of their relievers would be running on fumes in October. That's been the lingering concern. But one way to get away from that is to have Darvish and Snell and Musgrove and even Chris Paddock pitching reasonably well. If you're getting five innings consistently from Paddock,

that's at least not a complete drain on the pen on the days that he goes to. So I see them. I think the way I would summarize this is I think the gap between the Giants and the Padres record-wise is wider than the actual gap in talent. I think you could probably talk me into the Padres as the third-best team in the NL, but I think, rationally, I think because of the moves they've made at the deadline

and because of their depth, I would still take the Giants slightly ahead of them. And I'm saying this if you're watching us on YouTube as the guy yet again wearing a Padres hat. Why does he always wear a Padres hat? Because his other hats are still packed in a bag somewhere and he hasn't found them. No, but the things that the Giants are better at than the Padres are things his other hats are still packed in a bag somewhere. He hasn't found them. No, but like the things that the Padres,

the things that the giants are better at than the Padres are things that'll win you games over the regular season, but may not win you like the games in the post season. The things that the giants are better at are like, Oh, when somebody gets hurt, uh, we have a good replacement,

you know, like Sammy long is better than some of the, you know, bullpen start, you know, call up starters that they've had in San Diego. Mauricio Dubon is a better, you know, fill-in center fielder than, I mean, that's not a great example because Tatis is the guy right now, but he's pretty good, I've heard. But, you know what I'm saying, is that sort of depth stuff that I think the Padres need to work on. They need to work on their depth. And that's been a big part of why they fell back when they started to have all these injuries.

But then you're talking about a five-game series. Now you're like, oh, well, who's your starting lineup tonight? And who's your starting pitcher tonight? As for Darvish, you know, one thing that we found when we were doing the research for Pitching Plus was just that stuff stays with you from year to year, but it's command that's kind of finicky and kind of goes in and out. And that's what I'm seeing with Darvish is just like if you look at his best years, his best years he has a really low home run rate and a low walk rate.

And his worst years he has a big home run rate. That's all command to me. Right. And I think command can waver in the event of a lingering injury, which is what he's been dealing with for a little while now. Or a certain enforcement situation. Well,

do you want to go down that rabbit hole? Eh, not really. Ooh, Eno. Throw in shade. I mean, obviously, what's kind of funny, kind of funny and I brought that up, you know, is remember how this was the hot storyline in baseball.

I haven't heard about it at all. Are guys complicit? Are they, uh, you know, it is something that, uh, I,

I do talk about with coaches and stuff. I mean, uh, when I wrote about it, it's been coming back a little bit. I got a text from a coach saying, yeah, I'm glad you wrote that. You know, it was a hitting coach, but he was saying like, I'm glad you wrote that. We're seeing spin come back.

It is. I think maybe the effect on the game overall wasn't large enough to capture people's attention, maybe a little bit. You know what I mean? Like we did this and strikeout rate went down 1%. You know, it's like, okay. Are we supposed to be super excited about that? Yeah. So because it didn't change the game fundamentally,

people are like, ah, maybe it wasn't as big a deal as we thought. I still think it was a pretty big deal. And I think selective enforcement was a big deal. You know, you never want to have a rule in the books that somebody at some point could just decide they want to take advantage of because the stakes are too high um but it's also something that somebody told me about the steroid crisis that the guy who uh reported on remember uh mark mcguire had the androst androstanone or something

in his locker? Yeah. Remember somebody reported on that? I actually remember this as a kid. I found it kind of weird to me. He came out with that and then he got vilified. People were like, why didn't people

report more on steroids? Well, one guy tried to and he got beaten into the ground. I to and he got beaten into the ground like i think he got he almost got beaten off the beat like he just like he's not he wasn't like a baseball writer after that uh and everyone's like oh you're not allowed to look at you but why you're looking in his locker oh that's that's totally fine it's totally legal well now it's not so it actually was part of the problem and he was just trying to do some of the reporting on it, you know? So I don't know.

I think there's a lot of different reasons that... And also, last thing is, it's kind of inside baseball, right? It's kind of like you have to explain why it matters. You have to explain what spin rate is. You have to explain, right? You have to explain a lot of things before you before someone understands why it's a big deal that somebody put pine tar in their fingers yes i also think they've stopped televising the checks right i haven't seen one on tv and so there goes the like then you're not talking about

them right there people aren't most people which i would prefer but yeah i mean it does lead to a difference in public opinion about it they were showing it on the scoreboard i think it's a game on tuesday that's the last thing they didn't catch anybody. That's the last thing. They didn't catch anybody. People care about names. Yeah, that's not so true. Caleb Smith and Shrug. Yeah, that's not moving the needle. Yeah, what, Hector Santiago?

Eh, doesn't matter. Not him as a person, but just the fact that he got caught, that doesn't matter. The last thing on the playoff race, I was looking at the Pythagorean win-loss records for teams. The Dodgers, kind of in their own tier, 89 and 45. Rays, Astros, White Sox all clustered together at 83 and 82 wins, respectively.

The Giants actually do come in second there. So based on that, they'd be in that big three along with the Brewers. The Jays would be the next team on there. So maybe they've been a little bit unlucky this year. Well, they have. They have a run differential that's twice as good as the Yankees. Brutal.

That's a team I wanted to see in October, but this is not going to happen. I think they might be the best team that gets left out. I could buy that. It's still good long-term, right? Who are they going to lose? I mean, Ray's a big deal, but maybe they can sign Ray. They got Berrios.

Like, they're going to sign some other pop-up starter. Like, I don't know. Like, they have a really good young group of hitters. Yeah, they'll be back and certainly in the mix again next year. I'm surprised Britt thinks the Cardinals are still alive. I mean, other than they're the Cardinals. I was kind of surprised by that, too. And they're always alive.

But, like, what is it about that team that you like, Britt? Yeah, what speaks to you about the Cardinals? Nothing really speaks to me. I just think they're sneaky. They're, like, hanging around here. They've been hanging around here in the NOL card race, right? So what I said— They're always solid, I guess.

Listen, Wainwright just turned 40, and he's still pitching really well. It's interesting. Him, Verlanderers close to 40 right scherzer's 37 like as much as the game is getting younger there is this faction of older guys um nothing speaks to me it's like i don't watch them and say like wow this team should run away with it all but they're not catching the brewers we know that but they are and they have been hanging around in this race in the wild card race so. So, like, all it takes, as you guys know, is a hot week. And if they get in, could they be dangerous?

I think so. I think they need Flaherty back or something. Yeah. Who's their second best pitcher? The Flaherty issue is, I mean, they said, they didn't really say he's out for the season, right? But they kind of also didn't set a timetable on him, which in September means you're out for the season, right? For the most part.

Strange shoulder. I don't know. Edelman's having a good year, though. Wasn't he just named Player of the Week? Yeah. They've been beating the Reds a little bit. Who they have to beat to get to where they want to go. That's right.

I just want to look at the team, I'm like, who's your second best starting pitcher? They're kind of rotating through closers now. Yes, but once you get to the playoffs, it's not the best. It's just getting to the playoffs, right? It's never the best team. It's almost never the best team that wins the World Series. Like, Buck, Trowell, Teresa have this great saying,

like, there's no Cinderella's once you, like, there's no Cinderella's 162-game season. But once you make it, it's a total crapshoot. Who's going to have a hot week or two? That's all it takes.

People kept, like, pooping all over the Nationals in 19, and they just, like, stormed all, like, they don't have a bullpen. How can they win? Like, my hand is also raised

because I also was like, they don't have a bullpen. How can they win? It's all about bullpens. Well, they turned that whole thing on their head right so my team like that is is kind of the the Red Sox I think yeah like yes again I'm sorry for saying hey are the Cardinals still alive but I just thought it was a fun topic to debate you guys you bring me on this show to spice it up so I was like no, yeah, so were the Cardinals. No, but my team kind of like that as the Red Sox

because right now it looks like they're kind of in a disaster piece theater where like COVID and they've got, they called a guy up, Jack Lopez. Oh man, he has been in the minor leagues. What was it? I need to get this right. He was drafted. He was drafted in 2011 and he just made his debut i guess there's like more there's been like 30 year olds and 31s he was only 28 but that's still a long time to be

in the minor leagues before you get your debut um and the reason why is because everybody has covid uh on the red socks and so it's kind of easy to lump them in with like the Mets and be like, Oh, God, you know, here's a team in a tailspin, they're not going to make it. But if they make it through the COVID situation, and they get their guys back, like, you know, they actually have, like marshaled this team to the point where like, they kind of papered over most of their flaws. Their bullpen is not amazing, but they've got some good arms back there. And they've discovered some guys over the season. Their rotation's not amazing, but they're going to have two guys at the top that can start in any postseason series. That wildcard game, Sale versus

Cole, I think that would be an amazing game. I think that would be a really good game. It's basically a coin flip in terms of win probability, I think, for either side of this. It's going to be close to that. If you only have to use two or three of the Red Sox relievers, their two or three best relievers

when they're pitching well are probably on the same level as the Yankees' two or three best relievers. If that game goes 15, then in that case, sure, the Yankees have more depth. Probably swings back around to the Yankees. But in a normal, you know, if that game goes 15, then in that case, sure, the Yankees have more depth. Probably swings back around to the Yankees, yeah. But in a normal, like a nine inning game,

the season on the line, Cole versus Sale, I think the Yankees would only be a very slight favorite there. So I could see people sleeping on them just a bit if they get there. The playoff team that no one talks about, the team that was an easy best three in the AL that gets no attention, it seems like,

is the White Sox. Yeah. Right? Yeah. How often do people talk about the White that was an easy best three in the al that gets no attention it seems like is the white socks yeah right yeah like how often do people talk about the white socks and they've had a bunch of stuff go wrong and part of it's that they they're in what i think is pretty easily the easiest division in the league so maybe people doubt them for that reason but they look good they look really good they could score runs the bull solid. The rotation is certainly good enough. I think it'll be, it's that rotation. Rodon was down two and a half miles per hour in his last start. Yeah, and I think his health is always a concern, right?

As great as the season has been, one of the first questions you would have had back in May or June is, what is he going to look like in August and September? Hopefully, he's healthy. Hopefully, he's still pitching well. We're starting to see maybe some signs of fatigue from him. But if you have Giolito, Lin, even Cease as your core three, let's say Rodon's hurt or he's not as effective, that's a pretty good first three when you have the bullpen that they have and you have the offense that scores runs the way that they can put runs on the board. And they've got a few kind of X factors in the bullpen too with Kopech and this version of Reynaldo Lopez. This is one of the better versions of Reynaldo Lopez that we have seen. What if you only need three innings out of Rodon, right? Right. If you can get to the lineup once and the velo is still down,

you have a couple of guys you can turn to. Kopech comes out and then all of a sudden you're down to Kimbrel Hendricks, right? They could do some weird strategies, and I think Tony La Russa would actually do those strategies where he'd just be like, everyone pitches two innings tonight. Here we go. What if you got four innings from Kimbrel Hendricks? What do you even need from your starters?

You guys are right there no one is talking about them in their chicago and they've tony larusa i feel like they went through a wave where they were talked about all the time and then we all just kind of forgot like fatigue or something yeah just like put them in a box yeah i was about to say something about the market but it's not really the market maybe it's the market of their opponents maybe it's the fact that they're running away with the division so there's no like there their opponents. Maybe it's the fact that they're running away with the division, so there's no intrigue. They're in the playoffs already. They can already start

to do the schedule game where they're like, ooh, we're going to rest this guy. I'm surprised they're not resting Rodon two and a half miles down. Hopefully, just put him back on the IL. Yeah, they should give him a bit of a breather, but you figure they're healthier now than they've been at any point this season, right?

You finally have Grandal and Luis Robert back. You've got Eloy back. That's huge. Andrew Vaughn's quietly putting together a good rookie season. It's kind of crazy. It's remarkable. I mean, Tim Anderson, just doing Tim Anderson things, banged up right now. They're giving him some rest, which I think will serve them well once they get to the postseason if they can get him completely healthy.

Again, Jose Abreu, I think Kevin Goldstein wrote a good piece about him earlier this week that I still have to get back to, but I think Jose Abreu is one of the more underappreciated mashers of the last five years, in part because some of those White Sox teams he's played on have been pretty bad, but really since day one with the White Sox, he's been every bit as good, if not better than expected at every turn as a hitter. I mean, he won an MVP, so he got some attention. But he's still, he's awesome. I think otherwise, if he didn't get more attention, it might be because he's like a 280, you know, 25 to 28 homer guy. Which is like a weird place to be. It's like you're never going to

lead the league in homers. You're never going to lead the league in batting average. It's kind of like an old school first baseman that actually might lead the league in RBI, which I guess we've all decided sucks as a stat, so we're not going to talk about it. Well, we like WRC+. He's got

a career 133 WRC+. And he came into the big leagues post-peak. Yeah, that's true. There's a lot to... The Brewers are 10 games up as well, and they don't really get a whole lot of attention either. It's just like, ah, the Brewers are good. They do on this show, frankly.

Yeah, because of Derek. I wonder what that is. That's strange. You know what? Derek has also been pounding the Tampa Bay Rays drum so I was gonna say the Rays are underappreciated but not on this podcast yeah

you know not on this podcast I think there's a couple funny things that happened since we last spoke about the Rays you guys pick a everyone let's pick a let's pick a champion now okay on September 2nd we're gonna pick a champion am I german or something

yeah world champion like a winner a world series winner there you go that's the right that's the right that's the right words all right who you be world series champion who you be? Who will you be? I actually I was asked a similar kind of question on Starkville. It's coming out on Tuesday and so I will ruin that for Starkville listeners and say I picked the Brewers. Oh man.

We are spending a lot of time together, aren't we? Are you guys going to watch the games together? Watch parties now that Derek's out there? Yeah, we should. We went to the game on Tuesday. Wow. It's weird to watch a baseball game with someone that you talk baseball with all the time

when you don't normally watch games together. And then you start talking about things that aren't baseball. Because it's baseball. I mean, that's actually one of the reasons I fell in love with baseball was i and this is a funny thing because we talk about pace right and we talk about oh we need to like you know do all this we need to get younger fans but like one of the reasons i loved baseball from the beginning was uh that there was like hanging out time yeah me too you know like there was like hanging out time. Yeah. Me too. You know, like there was like, you could actually talk about something.

Like I went to a football game once and it was a preseason Patriots football game. I hadn't seen my friend a long time. So I think it was Paul Swain. Maybe. I don't know. We were just talking. And I think the person in front of us turned around and was like,

stop talking about stuff. That's not football or something. I was like, we got yelled at and i was just like as a baseball fan if that happened to me at a baseball park i'd be like what the core demographics for baseball are the generation that lewis black is a part of like he has described his generation as being the greatest of all time at hanging out, which I would agree with.

People that are in that 60 and up group, they're great at just sitting around, just kind of shooting the breeze about anything and pretending to be an expert in anything. They're great at that. No generation will ever be as good at chit-chat and small talk. Because we all have Google. And that's part of his joke.

He's like, you guys, you're all doing research. And it's like, well, yeah, we want to know the truth. We want to just, we're not going to pretend like we understand these things. We just said things like it was true. You know, I think it was better like the other way. Because every time I say something to my husband, he's like, well, look it up. He's like, well, let's look it up on our phones. Well, let's not.

Why don't you just listen to what I said? I have a really good friend like that. And I'm just like, don't. Don't. Don't do it. Why prove me wrong when I have this really good friend like that and I'm just like, don't don't do it why prove me wrong when I have this bravado I agree with the pace I used to, I have vivid memories and also of hockey before they changed

a lot of the rules to fix the pace in hockey of doing my homework while the game was on and talking to my dad and baseball is a sport where you can do that and my dad could answer and converse, right? And it's not the same in football at all. So I do have memories of that.

Should I pick my world champion now on September 2nd? I'm going to get crushed. You know what? I don't want the Houston Astros to win, but I think the Houston Astros might win. Nice. They're just good enough, right? It's never the obvious team.

It's always the less obvious team, that second tier. I think they're just good enough to do it. And they've got Dusty Baker. They could kind of do some of that national stuff, right, where they have like seven starters, so they could use their starters to paper over their problems in the bullpen, if there are any. Yes.

And they've been hitting all year. They just have a lot of talent. They're just a really talented team, as much as people don't like them. They're really talented. They are good. And I think back at the beginning of the season, they were a good bet just based on the odds too over at BetMGM. I swear during one of the promos,

several of the promos. Oh, they're your Astros, Ritz. Yeah. He's taking the moniker off his shoulders. I'm so glad. I'm so glad. It's like, I don't know what they call this game anymore. When we were kids, we called it Old Maid,

where you have the one card that you don't want to get. Well, that's what the Astros are on this show. It's a little problematic now. We have to come up with a new name for this. Yeah, I'm sure they call the game something else. I apologize for not knowing. I don't have kids, but they're now your Astros, Britt. I'm not taking that card back out

of your hands. As much as I think they are legit, I think they could just as easily cruise to the ALs and the other team because I think they do have the star power. I think they could just as easily, you know, cruise to the AL as any other team because I think they do have the star power. I think it's nice to have the experience of having been there before too. It's just an extra bonus.

Not necessary, but it's good to have it. I think it's the Dodgers. I said this on the athletic baseball show that'll be up on Friday. I think the Dodgers are, maybe you guys disagree with this, but growing up, the Yankees were the team to hate because they got all the best free agents. They made all the trades.

They spent all the money, and they won all the time. So if you didn't live in New York, if you weren't a Yankees fan, you just didn't like the Yankees. They were the evil empire back then. They've been replaced. They are not the most evil team in baseball. The Dodgers are the most evil team in baseball. You have to win a lot to be evil right like you have to you have to win championships and you have to like win the division every year

yeah yeah but here's an interesting thing i found when i looked at um the trade deadline and whether or not like all of the consolidation of power that we had in this last trade deadline was actually good for baseball uh there's actually evidence across sports that dynasties are good for the sport. And I think it's this sort of evil thing. First of all, dynasties mean that you have repeat, especially for casual fans, you have repeat faces you recognize. Right? Oh, Corey Seager's back. Oh, justin turner back oh the guy from lord

of the rings is back you know and so uh you'll have to figure out who that is but you once you get it you'll know exactly who i'm talking about um and uh uh and i'm gonna get my second get me in trouble anyway um my point is they're recognizable you hate them or or a lot of people hate them or you love them because you're you're from southern california um or you or you want to be from southern california so dynasties are are good uh good for for sports apparently and i think it's partially this either love them or hate them, but you know who they are, right? Then that can be part of, that's sort of a part of our ongoing conversation

about whether or not the Rays are bad for baseball and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And like the one thing that we, I think we might agree on is that it's a little problematic to cycle through players so quickly that people just don't know who's on the team this year. Like Willie Adamas was a recognizable face from the Rays that went to the World Series last year and he's not on their team anymore.

Yeah, I agree. He was a starting shortstop. He was young. He should have been there for a while. Yeah, but I think more people remembered that team because of Randy Rosarena and at least he's still there. Yeah, okay. I guess.

Think about jersey sales. It's hard to, what jerseys, you know, getting his kids, they're It's hard to... What jersey is Eno getting his kids? They're big race fans. What jersey is safe, right? Like, it is tough to build fans. Yeah, Randy's 28 or 20. He's already 28 or something. He's going to be gone.

I think all of this comes back to something. So, Britt, you weren't on the show, I think, on Monday when this came up, but this is the same sort of argument that happens a lot of times with developing aces. Developing stars, obviously very hard to do. There are fewer stars in the game than we want there to be. There aren't enough stars to have every team have two, right? That's just not how it works. But if you make the lines a little broader, if you say, you know what, a three and a half win player, four win player, that's actually a star player.

That's like a top 15% sort of player. Okay, so then you have have stars and superstars. Then it's just semantics, right? A top 10 player is a superstar, but an 11 to 40 range player, that's just a star. And you might have two or three guys in the 11 to 40 range, and yeah, maybe they don't sell as many jerseys, or maybe they're not out in front,

maybe the league doesn't promote them that well, but they're still really good players. I think that's kind of part of what's happening here too. But anyway, I think this postseason is lining up to be really good because I think the Brewers are absolutely good enough to play a great series, even against the loaded Dodgers lineup, because the pitching is good enough. The rotation is good enough. The bullpen is both good enough and deep enough where they can actually go head-to-head with the Dodgers. I would agree that the Padres, if they get there, could actually do it. I believe they're good enough to hang around in a series like that, too.

And I think we just kind of wonder right now, are the Giants on that level or not? And this weekend, we get a chance to see those two teams square off. They're tied for first right now, entering the weekend, so that's top of the list probably of series to watch this weekend. But I think the good versus evil is actually really important for the

game. You need enemies. Baseball was in a pretty healthy place in terms of the national conversation back when the Yankees were dominating when we were kids. That wasn't a bad era for baseball popularity. Having a team full of stars that wins all the time probably is good because we have a common enemy. 90% of the fans in the game all root against that one team.

That's a good thing. It's like a comic book, right? You need villains for superheroes to be interesting. This is why the Astros, people, they were actually not bad for baseball. That whole cheating scandal, like, actually wasn't, in my opinion. A lot of attention, yeah. Yeah. LeBron James was tweeting about

it, right? Like, I just think it kind of, like, transcended a little bit. I don't like my World Series winning pick. Derek, I don't know if you like your Dodger pick. You know who I like his Brewers pick. I'll just leave it on the screen. Mine is fine because it's just like, it's fun.

It's somebody who has won in a long time. They seem young and exciting, and they do actually have some stars. They're not quite Razian, you know? Like, they kind of, they signed Christian Jelic to a long-term deal. They wanted to keep him around. It may not work out for them, but, you know, it's still fun. He's still, like, the face of their franchise their franchise still a guy's gonna be around so and actually some of my optimism is actually based on christian yelich because his his work at the plate is is fine like in terms of his

eye at the plate it's fine so i feel like you give him a cortisol shot at the right moment and uh and you get you know three weeks of of mashing out of him and that might change everything. Forget cortisol. Give him Toradol. That's like the next step up. It's like horse tranquilizer. Is that the same sort of deal like local painkiller type steroid thing? Yeah, although it has some serious long-term ramifications because i asked

one of my trainer friends about it once he's like yeah i'm like well pro athletes do it he's like yeah that's that's why they break down so hard after they're done oh yeah basically um yeah so yeah i was talking about like trying and he said he didn't even want to do he doesn't even get cortisol because he said all you're doing is is it's like it's on top of it's just like making it feel good so that you can keep playing and he's like but if it hurts you're doing something wrong so don't just keep doing something wrong don't just like you know you know have a painkiller on top of it you know you have to do something you have to figure it out yeah it depends on the injury but i mean speaking of like pics like or things you really don't want to

happen, do you guys think Bryce Harper's gonna get some serious NLMVP steam here? Deserves it. I mean, Tatis, I think it actually, and I think it's gonna sound like I'm annoyed

and this is stupid, but I think it actually might matter who makes the playoffs. Because know war is not exact to a decimal point so i i wouldn't i would never if i had the mvp vote i would never be like well bryce harper has a 6.2 and fernando tatis has a 6.1 so therefore it's bryce harper so i it's actually okay. If you have a bunch of guys who have six wins, you might have three of them to be like, okay, let me consider some other factors, you know?

And I think it might be okay. If one of those factors was what happened with that team. Is that a crazy? Is that crazy? Am I, am I, am I, am I losing?

I have to give up my Fangraphs card? No. I don't think that's just how it works, but I'm actually curious if you guys think that Trey Turner could win the NL MVP despite being traded in the middle of the season. Whoa. That's an aggressive take I haven't heard. Well, that's why I was talking about this.

If you look at who's going to end up with around six wins, it's Muncy and Turner are going to both be there. And Will Smith. But I think that's going to be a problem, too. Another narrative sort of thing is, if there's three of them, how could any one of them be the most valuable? Yeah, which...

Which, again, I'm sorry. Here's my Fangraphs card. I'm sorry. Yeah, which... Which again, I'm sorry. Here's my Fangraphs card. I'm sorry. My card must have gotten lost in the mail. Well, these are the things that we rail against at Fangraphs

or we used to rail against at Fangraphs. We were like, you know, no, it's just about value. You know, it doesn't matter. These other things are contextual. It doesn't matter how many wins the team wins. Well, what if your stat that you're using, what if Fangraphs is not actually that exact down to a decimal point and these are actually just a grouping of players?

Then, yeah, I think it does matter because there are soft things like leadership skills, right, that can sort of bleed to the people around you, right? Yeah. I don't know. I see a case building for tatis that's pretty strong because he's gonna be right there with all the rest of them if the padres make the postseason you're gonna have all this like on off right when he was off the field they were losing when he came

back on the field he hit home every time he came back for the dl he hit homer il he hit a homer right so it's like oh that's what we were missing. So I don't know. I think, I think, and also he's going to have like the traditional numbers, like homers, stolen bases, all that stuff. Like he's going to, he's going to be all over that. Derek? Bryce Harper is, he's kind of the, the LeBron of baseball in the sense that he was hyped from the time he was a teenager. And he's just come up and just been everything he was supposed to be as a player. What to this point in his career has Bryce Harper failed to do other than win a World Series? In a game like this, it's like, well, if we don't hold it against Mike Trout,

why would he hold it against Bryce Harper? He's a great player, and I think he could have amazing years like this for a few more years. And it would still be somehow under-discussed, which is bizarre. Because if you thought back in the beginning of his career, if he was going to be a perennial MVP candidate in his late 20s, it would be the only thing we would talk about. And instead, it's like, oh, yeah, Bryce Harper's having a good year. Let's give it to someone else.

His teams don't do well. It may or may not have something to do with his leadership skills and his abilities in the clubhouse and what sort of clubhouse he creates around himself. But, or maybe it's just he wasn't on great teams.

But the thing is, if he was running away with it, if he had seven wins and everyone else had six, then I'd have no problem. Then I'd have no problem being like, that's it. Except he's just away with it. If he, if he had seven wins and everyone else had six, then I'd have no problem. You know, then I'd have no problem being like, that's it. Except he's just in a group.

I think he's, when you were talking earlier about sort of difference between superstars and stars, like, I just think he's in a group. He's a really good player. He's in a group. He's not LeBron.

LeBron, if you look at LeBron's like advanced stats and stuff, he's always like way out in front. He's LeBron is Willie Mays. To clarify, I don't think Harper is the equivalent in terms of what he's done on the field. I think in terms of hype. He's the

baseball equivalent in that he was supposed to be amazing. We heard about him at a really young age. He's just really good. He's pretty close to the hype. The hype wasn't unwarranted. He's not putting good. He's just really good. He's pretty close to the hype. The hype wasn't unwarranted. But he's not putting up 10-win seasons like Trout.

That would be, in that case, then he would also be like LeBron in terms of output. That's what I'm saying. But I think maybe because we thought he was going to be a perennial 8-10 win guy, that he's only a 6-win guy. Going to be a 6-win guy this year somehow is a disappointment. But when the rest of the league is below him, he's the best offensive player in the NL right now in terms of WRC+. He's got a 166.

He's definitely a top three guy for me. It's just the order of that three may have to do with something other than wins of overpricing for me. Sure, and I think quality of team is a fine tiebreaker for these types of awards. I mean, what do you think, Britt? You voted on these awards before.

How much does that play in you? You don't have this vote, do you? I don't have this vote. I'm just here to stir the pot, guys. You know, the Cardinals, Bryce Harper. I was like, how can I get Eno? Tommy Edmund is the MVP? I was like, how can I get Eno and DVR

to really go off here on this evening edition of Rates and Merrills? I kind of side with you guys i think if it if he's far and away the best player give it to him but if it's a tiebreaker you have to look at the team the leadership um all those other qualities and so to me i wouldn't i'd put him high in my ballot i wouldn't give him the mv. We still have a month to play, so a lot could change, right? If the Phillies win 10 games, storm into the NL East, led by Bryce Harper, does that change your mind? I mean,

it could, right? If Tatis gets injured again, you know. Right. If the Padres fall off a cliff here, does that change the balance here a little bit? It could. And as much as we don't want to admit it, I think the media bias certainly plays a role here. Everyone loves to tease. He's friendly. He smiles. He does interviews. Bryce Harper is harder to deal with. And fair or not fair, I think that's often a

tiebreaker for people who vote. Is this guy nice to me? Is he nice? Do I like him? And that's just kind of some of the biases that creep into these votes, right? It happens all the time. And it really shouldn't but, you know, because like you guys said Bryce Harper's a great player but I don't know, it's just, it's interesting because I didn't hear much about him and now like twice in the last week I've

seen these like stories about how no one's talking about how great Bryce Harper is. I think because we over-talked Bryce Harper for a decade or so, that maybe under-talking him for a few years will just balance out the whole equilibrium of Bryce Harper. It could, it could. So I think the other team that could throw someone into the mix here

would be the Reds. If the Reds are a playoff team. Castellanos, maybe? Castellanos could be. Isn't he actually in the mix in war? His defense is not amazing. Yeah, he's below average defender. So he's only at four war right now. Winker has missed a little time.

He actually has more played appearances than Castellanos, but his defense is a little worse, so he's a little further down. But Joey Votto kind of ticks the box of, hey, he's kind of popular, and people like when he talks, and he's had this sort of rebound season that sure is a good story. So I wonder if the Reds get really hot in September and find their way into the playoffs, if we'll see Votto sort of surface as a late-season candidate for NL MVP.

I never would have expected that, but it just seems like it's a possibility. I just want to get him some hardware. I don't know what it is. He has the best ISO of his career at 38. What? That doesn't at 38. What? That doesn't normally happen. What? I love him. God, I love him.

Didn't we come up with awards one year? We should do an award show at the end of September, and we will just go ham on Joey Votto Awards. Let's give Joey Votto the Joey Votto Award. Does anybody have that 3D printer we were looking for a while back? Drop us an email.

I mean, and also let us know, would you like for The Athletic to fly the three of us to a playoff game to do these games live together? I would. Sounds like a great time. That would be good. That'd be fun. I thought you were going to say fly us out to do an award show and just hand players these little trophies. That would be good. That'd be fun. I thought you were going to say fly us out to do an award show and just hand

players these little trophies. That would be excellent. Mostly because I could see Eno wearing this suede suit or something totally out of control that you're like yeah, that's Eno. This would be my first interaction with many of these people, so I'm sure it'd be a great first impression to make. No one's ever

seen me in a suit, so what kind of suit would it be? I'm literally thinking like purple suede, like something completely off the reservation. You're like, that's, you know. Get my tailor on it. I think there is a pretty interesting thing happening in Seattle that we should talk about, which is weird.

They're kind of a sneaky, hanging around playoff team as well. They are not good based on Pythagorean win-loss, but hey, you know what? You do the opposite of Toronto and you hang around longer than you should. You start to play a little better

with that young core you got and maybe, just maybe, you find yourself playing into the last days of the season, possibly finding the second wild card. I don't think that's going to happen, but we saw extensions for the manager, Scott Service,

and for Jerry DiPoto, I believe was also promoted, no longer the GM, as a team president-y sort of title. So do you feel like this was deserved, given that the Mariners probably arrived a year or so earlier than expected? Do you buy that their overall improvement as an organization, regardless of what you think about them for 2021 specifically, merits both service and a podo getting the extensions? I don't know.

I don't know. Here's, there's, I see pretty compelling arguments. I see pretty compelling arguments in both directions. And in fact, I got attacked for this on Twitter the i don't know about that um the here's the thing here's the good they have found guys they have found guys i have in front of me steamers updated uh projections so that's that would be like over the full course of

the season what what they think they'll end up with right and you're talking about above average is two wins right uh so uh they've got france seager uh seager's not going to be there but so let's take him out because we're talking about core france crawford hanager and toro are all above average players right so that's uh france crawford hanager toro that's five guys four guys four guys let's say a healthy lewis gives him a shot at five between lewis and kelnyk maybe it's five um i did uh i did some research where i said uh what is enough to be a core and uh the question the answer was uh three or four uh four above average young players was good enough that's enough to be a core um but i have seen other people point out that uh we've been talking about stars and uh and really like really above

average like you know three win players think about this if you have a bunch of average players you're 81 and 81 right so so it's not that great that their guys are like 2.1 win guys you know it's like okay you're an 82 win team um and that is what we're waiting on for them is something beyond that kalnick maybe could still be it julio arregas could be it noel martin martez could be it but in terms of like what they have right now it does not look like a core of a comfortably above average team so it's kind of a little bit funny to get a big extension right now, I think. Maybe it's a tick premature, but it was two years.

It wasn't five. I kind of get it. It's kind of poop or get off the potty extension, I guess. This is your shot. I was kind of mad on it. Baseball people that I talked to were kind of like, what have they done? Really?

You're right. They've gotten a good farm system. We'll still have the Orioles. I do think Seattle is set up to be better sooner than Baltimore, but, um, I don't know. I think a lot of the times these extensions are based off of what they aim to do here. And you're right. You know, like if they're, if they're not good in two years it's an easy decision to make um to me it was just kind of like one one random were they expiring at the end of this year do you guys know the weird thing i don't recall yeah because the weird thing now this new trend in baseball is that nobody talks about how long these deals are for or how much money they're for for these upper echelon front office guys. So nobody really knows.

They don't really want the media reporting on the lame duck, right? There's a whole lame duck philosophy. They don't want to know when it's over so that we don't spend a whole two months writing is Jerry DePoto going to be extended or is he going to go into next year as a lame duck GM? Yes. Yes, I'm glad you brought it back

for another line. So if that's the case, like if they were extending, like whatever, give them the two-year extension. That doesn't really bother me. If they had another year or something and they did this kind of prematurely, I would be a little more like, meh, but there's just so much we don't know in terms of these contracts. I'm fine with it.

It's whatever. I think the biggest obstacle here in baseball front office-wise is the Mets, and it's not even close. So Seattle, in their big news, kind of got buried in the week that was the New York Mets, anyway, for me. That's something that, no, but hey, give DiPoto some credit. Like, he's not like, that stuff's not going on around him. He seems to be hiring some decent people around him.

They're not like, you know, a DUI. I mean, I don't have to list all the stuff that the Mets have done. Like, you know, like DePoto hires decent people. The farm system has turned out some wins. They seem on the cusp. I mean, I'm now again arguing in the other direction that he's done a decently good job. It's a meh. It's a meh. So Britt's on meh.

Eno has started to argue both sides. So I guess I have to pick a lane on this one. I think it makes sense. I think two extra years, assuming it was going to be up at the end of this year or possibly at the end of next year, makes sense. A two- to three-year window for this team. If they go to the playoffs in the next two to three years,

then it's success. This is an organization that hasn't had a lot of success. So much is riding on what happens with Kellnick between now and the end of that window. Not now and the end of the season. Not now and the end of next season. But this is a prospect they basically stole from the Mets. Right?

Like everyone loved the Kellnick deal every day up until he showed signs of struggling in his first taste of big league at bats. He's still probably going to be a very good player and maybe a star, but you have Rodriguez, like you mentioned, Noel V. Marte looks like an impact player. George Kirby will be joining that rotation soon. You got Gilbert already up and trying to figure things out I mean there's to me there's impact talent in a lot of key places on the roster and even if JP Crawford's never the player that we thought he'd be back in his prospect days he's at least a good big league shortstop it's good to have that sorted out too the Toro trade

looks like a huge win for them at least as of of right now, for Kendall Graveman, who wasn't going to be a long-term part of their bullpen. I mean, he was on a one-year deal, right? So I think that's a fantastic trade. There's a lot more good than bad with the core they have in place right now. It's all going to come down to this for me. If their player development can hit with this young talent, if they can turn those guys from possible two to three win guys

into a few four to five win guys, that goes a long, long way for this team to actually be more of a perennial playoff team than a team that will get there once in the next few years. Yeah, I'm making a decision. All right.

I know you're all just on the edge of your seat. What will he say? No, I'm going, I think it's a positive. I think it's a decision. All right. I know you're all just on the edge of your seat. What will he say? No, I'm going, I think it's a positive. I think it's a positive. I think he's done a decent job. I'm going to go back to that research that I've got that said that four above average players is a core. And one of the last things I want to add

is that they haven't really spent money while he's been there. And it strikes me a little bit like the Padres where they were, you know, bumbling around at the sort of 90 to 100 million payrolls and bumped it up all the way to 200 right now. But, you know, I think the Mariners could live again at sort of 140, 150 million. So that's why a core of young above average players that you know is good enough because you can add a star in free agency you could like add for example if you put a Bryce Harper on this team that changes the whole complexion of the team you know what I mean so I

think that they could be major players on a surprise free agent thinking that, hey, now we're going to hopefully add at least one star out of our young guys. And if not, we've added the star in free agency and we have this cheap, above average crew of Toro and France and et cetera. I mean, I think that's what you do. You build and then you spend at the right moment. And I think he's building and as long as he spends the right moment, it could come together. Yawn. This is a long conversation on an essential wait and see.

We're going to have to wait and see two years. We're not going to know. Nobody's going to know. Good point. Good point. Good point. We are talking about an extension for a team that has a negative run differential that's probably out of the race by now.

Well, then it comes to are they spending that money this offseason? And if so, who are they spending it on? Are they a team that gets in on Chris Bryant, possibly? I think that would be an interesting replacement for Kyle Seager. Yeah, I'm curious to see if they're in the mix because they do have money to spend when the time comes. And if they believe that core is closer to turning the corner than not, you go ahead and start spending it now if you think there's a good chance out there.

They got to make their Manny Machado deal. Yeah, and maybe I think there are still some teams willing to dump good players with big contracts. Maybe it's a trade. We know DePoto loves to trade. So maybe they're making a deal for somebody that we're not even thinking about being available because this is a free agent class. It's rich with shortstops,

but it's not necessarily loaded with everything. So you may have to be a little bit creative with how you find that long term. You sign one of those shortstops and play them somewhere else. Sign Simeon because he, he falls too far and he's a little bit too cheap. You push someone else around. It'd be a little awkward to sign Corey Seager and let Kyle go.

Right. Yeah. Not going to do that. Are they? Or do you wait a year? Do you wait a year inside train sign? Trey Turner is like your build around guy. Cause you're not going to be a good team next year.

You're not going to go for it next year, right? I don't know. I was just looking up also some of the details. And you're right, Britt. They don't put like when. So in this piece I'm reading, it says that DePoto was in the final year of his deal and got a multi-year extension in 2018 it doesn't say how many years that extension was in 2018 i told you it's this weird it's this weird new industry trend and so now we get a multi-year extension again on depoto and so they tell you

it's a two-year extension but two years to when like is it how many years do you have left um and uh yeah so it's kind of hard to know. But I think if it's only like a short-term extension, I think they might actually spend some money this offseason because I think the fire is a little bit under his butt because they're probably going to miss the postseason. And, you know, you can't keep selling your owner on the kids are coming, the kids are coming,

especially if a couple kids come up and struggle. Who wins a playoff game first, the Mariners or the Mets? Oh, God. Mets. Mets because Cullen is going to clean house. He's going to get a whole bunch of new leadership in there, and he's going to spend another round of money. He's got to.

I think he's realizing that it's actually not that easy to own a successful baseball team. He's going to chase bad money with more bad money. He's just going to. Yeah, you're right. But have you guys read the book about him? There's a great book about him. It's by a journalist.

Cohen didn't speak for it, so it's got all these different sources that aren't Cohen terrific book that guy's not going to handle losing well so I think you're right Eno I think he's going to go all in he's going to basically throw the ranch at Theo Epstein

and see what happens here but even if not they're going to be good again because Steve Cohen can't handle it. He's tweeting about the hitters this year. Like, he's just, he's going to be the modern day George Steinbrenner, I think. He really is. With Twitter.

If George Steinbrenner had Twitter. We deserve that. We deserve that. And I totally agree with Ken's column, by the way. I thought Ken Rosenthal wrote a great pull-no-punches column. I love it when Ken does that, man. He does not give an F sometimes.

I think they do need to fire Sandy Olsen. I think they need to clean because I think Sandy has had three huge missteps this year, including making his son the agm that's one that people don't talk about as much but it's not uh not one that was received well

within the mets so and then and just all this like how long can we talk about how bad and cancerous the culture is in new york and not blame the guy that was there before and is there again. Yeah, he's a common thread. Like how many of these guys did he hire? It's true. How many strikes do you get? Exactly. The only other question I have about this, we don't have to get into the thumbs down

and all that stuff. That story has kind of run its course for me at least. But if you are going to really start over in your front office, you're going to let everybody go and bring in a new front office. Which they kind of did, but not good enough. Even if you do that and you bring in Theo to do it and Theo goes out and gets all the people he wants to get from different organizations, everybody he's worked with before that he likes and brings everybody in. Are you actually a legitimate World Series contender immediately? Or are you still kind of in that early phase? Like when Steve Cohen bought the team, he said they were going to try and win right away. But it was pretty clear that they also were going to try and build what teams like the Dodgers have.

And I think he made it pretty clear that you don't get player development fixed overnight. You know, I think that's still, it's almost like in some ways this year ends up being a lost year to getting those pieces in place because of how bad they botch things back during the winter. What does Theo tell you when you hire him?

Give me five years. Right. And I don't feel like Mets fans want to wait five years. What did Steve Cohen say? I feel like he'd be disappointed if they wouldn't win between three and five years, the World Series. It was three and five? Yeah. Okay. So now it's two to four.

Yeah, I mean, it's getting quicker, getting late early. They got a lot of issues. Like roster construction, they got a lot of issues. They need to get to Grom, right? Their offense needs to hit. Michael Conforto, do you offer that guy a qualifying offer and hope that he balances

back somewhat? Maybe. What happens to Dom Smith? Is he just going to not? Is it just that this is Dom Smith this year? Is this it here? You know, I think they have some real issues that need to be addressed. And does it go all the way down to Rojas, right? Does Luis Rojas, who I like, I think he's a good baseball man,

but if they clean house, you're going to have to clean it totally here? They even have stadium issues. That stadium still plays super weird. And nobody can figure out why. Yeah, they have issues within, I mean, Katie Strang and I back in April wrote about all the employment and culture issues they still had. Anyone who thinks that this was only on the will ponds has now kind of realized that it's not just on changing ownership. Or there are still remnants.

I mean, there's still, you know, there's still some stuff that's stuck around. Yes, but real change takes actual time. What's crazy to me about all the We Want Theo stuff is that Jared Porter and Zach Scott are Theo guys. They're Theo guys. Let's not act like Theo's going to come in and build an ark and put all the animals on it and save the day. You know what I mean? Wouldn't the connection there keep the Mets from actually hiring Theo? I mean, I know it won't, but shouldn't it?

Like, shouldn't that be the sign? Like, you know what? As great as Theo has been with the success that he's had in Boston and Chicago, maybe we're not going to be the third place he goes. Maybe we're just going to pass here and try something else. You'd think that. But you know, if they hire him, something is going to happen. Something

unexpected. Who's a rising star that you can pull away? Who's the next Heimblum? Who are you? I think they've tried to get David Stearns before. Yeah. Those overtures could heat up again. That would be a big fish right there.

Well, yeah, I don't know what they're going to do. It's a, it's fascinating. But I'm glad you brought that up, Britt, because it's like, why go right back into that path? Why go to the same tree? Like, that doesn't seem like a good idea. Like, look in the mirror, Mets. Think this one through.

I know thinking things through is not your specialty as an organization. Derek! Yikes. Hey, look. I think it would actually be a mistake. Everyone's going to want them to get Theo. I think it would be a mistake for them to do it. But just my opinion.

Do we have anything else that we wanted to get to on the rundown? I'm excited for this weekend because the matchups are good. We got Dodgers Giants. We got Astros Padres. The Reds get a layup against the Tigers. They have to make if they want to keep holding on to that second wildcard in the NL. Atlanta has to go into the funhouse in Coors.

Phillies Marlins. The Marlins are a pesky spoiler because of their pitching. So that's watchable. Mets Nationals, right? The Mets, the constant dumpster fire. The Nationals have been playing spoiler. They actually lost today. Yeah, they melted down today.

Didn't they have a big lead? They're working on it. They're playing okay. Yeah, they're not bad. Despite not having any players. Oh, I hope everyone's got a great holiday weekend filled with lots of baseball because there's some really good games. Burgers and brats.

You guys have brats out here, Eno? Yes, we have brats out here. Are they actual brats? I can tell you where the good sausage purveyors are. Oh, there you go. Please let me know as soon as possible. If you do not have a subscription to The Athletic, you can get one for 50% off at theathletic.com slash rates and barrels. It's the best deal that we run throughout the year. So get that while you can. It's a great time to sign up. The too early fantasy baseball rankings, they're like a month away. Those alone are worth the price of a subscription. And they're like not even in the top 1000 best things on The Athletic over the course of the year. So, you know, keep that in mind.

On Twitter, she's at Britt underscore Giroli. He is at Eno Saris. I am at Derek Van Ryper. You can always email us, ratesandbarrels at theathletic.com. Have a safe and happy Labor Day weekend. We are back with you on Wednesday. Thanks for listening. Thank you.