RAWTALK - 4x Mr. Olympia Jay Cutler on Beating Ronnie Coleman & The Truth About His Steroid Stack

Episode Date: April 7, 2026

This Episode is Sponsored by: BetterHelp Visit https://www.BetterHelp.com/RAWTALK today to get 10% off your first month! Sponsored by: Morgan & MorganHttps://www/forthepeople.com/rawtalk OR Dial Pound Law (Pound 529)On This Episode Of RawTalk, Bradley Martyn Sits Down With Jay Cutler And Talks About His Rise To Becoming Mr. Olympia, The Truth About Bodybuilding, Dieting & Steroids. Why Social Media Changed Fitness Forever, How He Built His Brand Before The Internet, His Biggest Career Lessons, Why Most Creators Fail Today, Finding Your Purpose & Much More! Sponsor RAWTALK: https://public.liveread.io/media-kit/rawtalkSUBSCRIBE HERE: https://www.youtube.com/c/REALRAWTALK?sub_confirmation=1LISTEN ON APPLE PODCASTS: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rawtalk/id1294154339FOLLOW RAWTALK PODCAST:INSTAGRAM | https://instagram.com/getrawtalkTIKTOK | https://tiktok.com/@askrawtalkFOLLOW BRADLEY:INSTAGRAM | https://instagram.com/bradleymartynSUBSCRIBE TO RAWTALK PODCAST CLIPS: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvzSBNBOK599FqzrTZS8ScQ/?sub_confirmation=1SUBSCRIBE TO LIFE OF BRADLEY MARTYN: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWTQG2aMDYKGDqYEGqJb1FA/?sub_confirmation=1SUBSCRIBE TO FITNESS CHANNEL: https://www.youtube.com/bradleymartynonline?sub_confirmation=1RAWGEAR: https://www.rawgear.com (CODE:RAW)

Oh, right. Dude, this, okay, this is, this has to be guys watching. This is probably one of my more favorite podcasts to do, just because I came obviously up in this space of fitness, bodybuilding. In fact, when I first was like doing anything on the internet, before the internet even became sort of what it is today, I wanted to be a bodybuilder. I wanted to be a professional bodybuilder. And we're sitting here with Jay Cutler, arguably one of the best bodybuilders of all time. Hands, I mean, I'm not trying to glaze you, but I know I would say that. confidently to anyone. So it's an absolute pleasure to have you. I've known you for years now. You've come into the opening of zoo culture. You've done amazing things in this industry and in the sport, but I kind of just wanted to start off. You're older now, obviously. You have perspective that's completely different on this space, but I think the most unique thing about you that I knew about you, even when I first started, you've always had a really good ability to connect with people who support you, the audience. And that's like the most unique thing I think about you.

Did that come from like just who you were your whole life or where you're from? You know, it's funny when I, you know, in high school I was pretty popular. I was an athlete and, you know, I networked pretty well with people. What sport did you play? I played football and I did track. Yeah. So growing up in Massachusetts, I mean, I was a young, us in my family, seven kids, you know, and I started doing the family business early,

which was concrete. So that's really where my whole background is, is the work ethic. And like, you know, we were from a super small town, like 6,000 people. You grew up on a farm, I had like over 100 acres. So I had like a lot of outdoor stuff as a kid. But at the same time, you know, I wasn't super social in a sense until I got to high school. And, you know, once you get into sports and you start building more confidence, you know, start dating and whatever. else you have you have that ability to kind of to connect with people but I think realistically for me it was just about learning experience I mean I always say that a lot of success is built on relationships and I slowly learned that but being a super introvert which is why I was really

good at the gym yeah I could lock in and I could train and you know I started when I was in college you know I would train from like eight to 10 at night you know the gym closed at 10 o'clock back and wish to the gold's gym. And it was like during that time at 18, you know, I joined the gym my 18th birthday. I was like, man, there's no stress about anything, you know, and that's really how I found fitness in a sense. When I say fitness, because I looked at bodybuilding books back then. We had no social media or any kind of internet.

So for me looking at, you know, people like Arnold reading, you know, I read Bob Parris's book. If you remember, he was a really good classic, you know, good looking dude. I read that when I was 16 when I was in high school. And next thing you know, I just, you know, started to, you know, connect with people and started competing, which really wasn't the plan in the beginning. And you know how it is. You have to kind of open up.

But listen, I appreciate my fans more than anything because without the people that supported me. And it was a lot of years, you know, especially if you really look at the track record of the Olympia, you know, second place over and over and over to arguably the greatest, you know, Ronnie Coleman, which I know you've spoken to before, you start to take like note of what's your surroundings. And I think that's what, you know, kind of gave me the motivation and the ability to kind of connect. Yeah. Because I know you just, you've always been the guy you take the extra time to talk to people to just say thank you to be grateful. And I think that's why you have such a

long life in this space. And even even outside of bodybuilding, like just in the in the social media space, going to the expos, you've really done it to like the best degree. I think anyone could have done it. Like to transition from a completely different time of fitness, as we'll call it, obviously bodybuilding specifically to the entire new age of social media and how the landscape is completely different where it's like you don't even need to be a professional bodybuilder to get the sort of attention that professional bodybuilders work. Yeah. And I think it's really just people connecting with what drives the person. And if you're, you watch a lot of my old content,

uh, I didn't say much. Yeah. I didn't say anything. I was just, I remember, I remember the, you know,

Mitsuru Okabi would come film those DVDs, which is seeing a lot through the social media now. I used to watch those, like when I was a kid, I would, I had those. I'm not, I'm not going to lie to you.

I probably took them on like Pirate Bay. I probably stole them. That's all right. I apologize. I used to sell those. I used to make a lot of money with the DVDs. Dude, yeah,

I used to, I used to, I was in that generation of like, lime wire, Napster. I was stealing content. And I'm not going to lie. You and Ronnie Coleman were the two people that I was like, I would always watch these videos. Well, I think when you were coming up, I mean, we were taught, like I said, we were top two in the world. So yeah, you know, man, you look back and I mean, it's so funny how decade after decade, that's really what I look, your personality changes

and you adapt to things. And I feel like like we've gone through so much transition every 10 years. Yeah. And now I'm like over 50 now, right? So I can kind of now, now, sit back and be a fan of what I did in a sense, which I wasn't able to when you were living it because I was so driven to be better. You know, I'd win the Olympia and say, okay, how can I be better for the next year, you know, that night at dinner.

Yeah. And it's like you can never take advantage of the moments. And, you know, in today you hear, you know, all the influencer type, especially the business mentors, say, you know, time, time, time is everything, you know, and just take advantage of the time. don't let it lap so much because we all want to rush to get to the top.

Yeah. And sometimes you kind of lose track of what that is. And I think that, you know, looking back, it's just now, it's just, like I said, I can now visually see everything and like, wow, I actually did that, you know? Bro, you did, you were, you were just, you were one of the best ever. Like, for, like, I know I started the podcast day that way, but I remember watching videos of you and being like, like, how is this even possible humanly? Like how could someone get this fucking big and be this fucking like proportionate?

Like you, you just, you're an amazing bodybuilder. But as I know you as a person, you're just a good person. Yeah. And so I guess my question is at what point along the way did you, did you start to recognize that that matter just as much as being a good bodybuilder? I think that's really, I mean, if you know, if you know anyone that's met me or, you know, I've been at these expos. I mean, you were there with me, a few of them early in your career.

Yeah. You know, people wait hours and they tell the stories. And I know you've dealt with this a lot. Like, you never realized that selfishly, we go to the gym every day. And then I was just trying to be great for that platform, which was the Olympia Arnold classics towards the end. I just want to be the best bodybuilding world. But like your struggles and everything that you go through, like the hardships, it bleeds

on to the people that follow you. And I think that's really what you learn. You're like, wow, I'm actually changing lives in a sense, which you don't plan on ever being a role model. Like, you don't start training in 18, like, I want to be famous and like I want to be a role model, because you don't even know what that's like. I mean, I just wanted to be really good at something. Honestly, that's all I wanted to be. That's how I found bodybuilding is, you know, I was actually really good at weight training and putting on size. And I noticed I was better than most people. So for me, it was like, wow, maybe I have something here, you know. Yeah.

But I think that I always said if I ever get to a level, I'll never steer away from the people that supported me to get there. And I've really, I've kept that true even today. I mean, I told you I'm leaving for UK this week, heading out to the Arnold Classic out there. And I'll be at the expoos, meeting people. And I just love it, man, you know. Yeah. What was the hardest part of your career? What years were the eating?

Yeah, if you see my eating videos and how much, I mean, you heard the stories. I used to buy a whole cow at a time. I lived in Massachusetts. I would buy 140 pounds of chicken at a time. I'd buy 30 dozen eggs at a time. Like when I literally, like when you talk about work ethic and dedication and like people that, obviously genetics play a huge part in what we do. And I think a lot of guys had way better genetics than me.

But the work ethic is really what, you know, I just stayed in and ate the meals, cooked the meals. I mean, my whole thing was just prepping meals, you know, doing whatever, prepping meal again. I was eating six times a day. But I had a great, you know, I worked with Chris Aceto, who was my coach from the beginning, lived like two hours from me in Maine. So I got to kind of connect with him. Did he pass recently? No, no, no. Okay. He helped Andrew Jack just win the honor classic. That guy's awesome too. Really good guy. Yeah. So, okay. So the eating was the hardest thing for you. I mean, that was definitely a hardest thing for me as well, just because I'm a little bit taller to trying to keep on any size. What advice would you give to like the younger guy who's like,

I can't eat enough? Because that's probably the, when people come up to me, they're always like, how do I get big? What do I do? Obviously, like, the training's important. The gear to an extent is important. But the food was always the limiting factor. The food, the sleep. So what's your perspective on how do you force yourself to eat enough? You've got to get in the routine waking up in the morning. I mean, we've, we've gone into a different phase of fasting now and people, oh, wait to eat. The truth is, is like, you wake up hungry, you, you start your first meal of the day, make it your largest meal, and then you roll with it from there. But it's all forcefeeding. I mean, you think I was hungry for six meals a day? Never. Yeah. I would actually force feed all

those meals. So you eat on the clock. And you know, when you train for these shows, a fitness show or whatever, and anyone that's really trying to get in shape, if you're going to do a nutrition program for someone, you don't put them on two meals a day. You put them on smaller portion of meals. Yeah. Keep the metabolism. You've got to think of it like a fire. So you're constantly throwing like whatever fuel at that fire to keep that flame, right? And that's how your metabolism is. So you've got to keep feeding it. And I think for me, it was just, you know, picking and choosing the foods that work best for me. I mean, I had someone that kind of guided me on what was nutritious and what wasn't. And obviously what we like. I mean, I hated, I hated white fish, but it got me the

lean us for the shows. Yeah. But I was an eating machine, man. I just ate, slept, trained, and like it was just routine day and down. It was groundhog day. Every day. It's very simple lifestyle. I don't think I would be as great if I had social media in my phase. Like I said, I didn't say anything in those DVDs. Yeah. So I didn't have much educational purpose, which now today, if you cross any of my content online, it's all educational. Like I did this with this success or I tried this. Listen, we all have our different theories of training or this Arnold's training or, you know, Mike Mentsor heavy duty stuff. I mean, there's so many different variations you can do. But I think, you know, it all comes down to like you said, someone says, how do you

get big? You got to eat. Yeah. I mean, not eating like a bird. I mean, you know, if, think about if you sat in and ate six meals a day today. I mean, how big would you be? Yeah. At one point I was, when I was really like, okay, I'm going to be a professional bodybuilder, I was to the point where I was legitimately force feeding to the point where I'm drinking water just little bits to like swallow the food just to get it in. And then I would finish with like olive oil to get extra calories because I knew I wasn't getting enough.

And then my next meal would come and I'd be not hungry whatsoever. And I literally would force myself. Yeah. And it worked. Yeah. And that's the struggle because remember, as you build more muscle and you have more activity, which, you know, I was training my ass off.

I got hungrier because, you know, you have to feed the machine. But you get to the point where, you know, you're 300 pounds and, you know, you're eating a pound of meat every meal and, you know, at least 100 grams of carbohydrates. I was eating 1,000 grams of carbs a day, you know, 400 grams of protein. I mean, it gets to a point where it's like, how much eating do you have to do, right? I mean, eating out was a limited option because I literally was portioning my, you know, meals. I was so strict in what I did. That's the one thing different from, I mean, you might have interviewed the other guys, but I was super regiment with the nutrition program. Yeah. Because I wanted to, listen, I wanted to look back and, you know, I was going to those major contests. My whole life

was about competition and winning. I had endorsements to help me with that. So I was like, I have to win. And that's the only thing I thought about. So whenever I was like, oh, I have a doubt or whatever, if you want it bad enough, you're going to do it. And that's really you know how I forced it forced to end. All right guys this podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. Obviously I've talked about this. I got to bring it up again obviously right now the world is a little crazy

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your own home so you don't have to drive. You don't have to set crazy traffic time appointments. You can just get there comfortably. You can sit anywhere in your home on a couch or on a bed, on a chair, whatever. It's easy. But BetterHelp's got your guys back if you need help. If you need a little bit of extra unbiased opinions. So if you guys are interested in checking it out, go to BetterHelp.com slash Raw Talk. Again, that's BetterHELP.com slash Raw Talk to get 10% off your first month. Let's get back on this podcast with Jay. So on that idea, wanting something bad enough, you're going to do it. At the same you said something earlier, which was about social media, because now today everyone's watching

this content and a lot of people want to get into this space, or they want to be a, you know, a fitness influencer, maybe even a bodybuilder. How would you go about it now differently, knowing like the landscape? Would you still be able to? I think you have to rely on a little more of a team because I have a great team that helps me actually now with navigate. But the truth is, is, you know, being who I am now, I'm not necessarily watching stuff for like, okay, how many views is, like in the early days, like with Instagram, you looked at like views and likes. And, you know, we go back to, I mean, when you started just like I did, there was no storylines. It was just like you posted a picture. There was nothing, nothing with Instagram. It's now

transitioned quite a bit. Remember, I started with Facebook. So, like, we started a fan page in 07. So I won the Olympian 06. And, and I mean, I was the first one to get to like six million on Facebook. And it was so powerful then because I could literally post anything up there like, I'm dropping this T-shirt and sell, you know, thousand T-shirts that day without ads or anything because there wasn't a thing as like, oh, you're going to pay for meta-ads or what else, right? But I think, I think, you know, I'm thankful that I did all that content back then because if you look at a lot of my clips, it's tied into my current suggestions on training and what I'm doing. and I've realized that a lot of bro science,

like there's a lot of different training thoughts out there now. I think it's some of it's a little crazy. Yeah. But I've stuck to the same thing since day one pretty much. And I think that, you know, that message comes across. But, you know, you just, you have to stay consistent with it. And I think that's where it's not as an individual bodybuilding on a sense like that level. If you're a top competitive bodybuilding, you have to have a team that's going to help you

navigate through the social media channels. Because listen to you got all, you got Snapchat, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, everything. Yeah, YouTube, yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. It's nuts now, man. It's just such a different landscape, though,

but even for the mentality of it, like I feel like there's so much comparison that back when you were doing it, and even in the beginning when I was doing it, it was, there wasn't as many versions of, like, success, which I found interesting about yours, because you kind of just, you guys just had one way.

This was just what you did. And nowadays, it's like, there's a, like you said, the bro science, there's a million different, this is how you do it, this is the right way, this is the science-based way to do it, this is the high intensity, whatever way to do it. This is like, currently like Diamond Gym going crazy, like this is the way to do it here. Do you think it's harder or easier now to get to be a top-level bodybuilder? I think it's harder because you're under the micro, like you're just, people are analyzing you nonstop, right?

and I think that I talk about that tunnel vision and that going to that place. And I used to kind of, I used to kind of explain it as like that dark place. But I hate to say that because it's not really dark. It's just blocking all the noise. And I think any professional athlete, I think anyone that's locked in for business, whether you're studying for a crazy test and like you have to, okay, hey, I'm going to be buried in this. Don't bother me.

So it's like putting that tunnel vision. and you have to have the ability to be able to do that. So if you're a super social person and you like to do a lot of activities and go out and do things like with your friends, whatever, it sometimes doesn't work. And I think that's, there's so many, there's so many areas of life now,

especially as a top competitive person. Like there's so many facets to what you do. You know, you have to almost have to have the social media tied with it where I think you found a niche where like you were, able to compete and then you move towards social media and forgot about competing. Yeah. Where I was like, I was still trying to balance the two. But if you remember, we were, we were magazine guys.

So people paid us for our likeness and then they took the content and they laid it out in the books and made you look like a rock star. Today, you have to control your social media and basically control all your own content and however you could display yourself. And some people do it great. Some people don't do it so great. Yeah. So you're kind of at that mercy also of how am I going to, what is my message? I think everyone has to

have a message. I think being like, hey, I'm just great on a bodybuilding stage. Like that's, that doesn't do it in today's society. Yeah. I think in Bay Area, maybe it could. You didn't, Dorian Yates used to go compete at the Olympia and then he'd go hide away for. Yeah. They called him the shadow, right? Because he'd be like, didn't want to do anything, didn't do, did a couple pitchers. And he went back and trained for the show. Yeah. And didn't go guest pose, didn't go to like a lot of expos because he was so locked in. But I don't think it's possible today. To do that and still have the level of stuff.

Yeah. And still have like the buildup. I mean, I think that's where a lot of the bodybuilding is lacking because it is a hard crossover. Yeah. Like that's why like if you go to these expos, which I still go to every major one, like the social media lines are longer than the professionals. Yeah. Well, it's like you said earlier, it's interesting. You're super introverted. So it's like how do you as an introvert in a sport that is very introverted because it's just you against the weights, then how do you take that and go, okay, I also have to be this personality that people also like?

So do you do, do you believe that this personality that people also like affects your placing? No. No. No, I think if the fans get behind someone, I mean, they get behind. behind certain guys. Like it, it definitely,

like, it brings eyes to that person through the, to the judges and obviously the fans and sponsors and whatnot. But, like, they always talked about the politics.

And granted, I think that, I think there's a little politics in sometimes the decisions, but, uh, I think that you still have to have the, the goods.

Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Like, for example, like, the past, Arnold,

uh, this or one, but Arnold Schwarzenegger himself is like taking a selfie with Sam Sulik on stage. And he finished almost last. Yeah. But you see how there's like, there's like that weird balance of like,

okay, but we know this is a popular social media creator. Like we want to give him or maybe I don't know if it's a, if it's a selfish thing or a marketing thing or a so just a social media thing, whatever you want to call it. We want to give him this sort of like moment regardless of his placing. Like there's a, it does,

it is interesting. But you see what I'm saying? Yeah, well, remember, he's from Ohio, right? He's in Delaware, so he's pretty close. But I think he lives actually in Ohio now. But he, you know, he qualified by winning the amateur the year before. So that's kind of the cool thing with the Schwarzenegger show is if you win the amateur the year prior, you're invited to compete in the open side of it, you know, in the professional side

after winning the pro card the year before. So he didn't have to go qualify or like he was chosen, you know, it's an invitational. but obviously is the biggest like viral content right now like as far as that i guess he's classic physique so it's not open bodybuilding but it's very comparable now just because it's what see bomb did with the division but yeah i think that uh you know he he did uploads every single day and you know it's the hard it's the hard of saying the world and he does it and you know and people say well his content's so raw and just he just gets behind a camera and talks on the car and does a couple of training things. And I guess he has his own home gym now. But it just shows how

important it is. But people are starting to learn his personality now. And, you know, he comes out of it. And listen, I got a chance to sit down with him. He came to Vegas. He trained with me. And our training is way different. Like, he's like very low volume. And I have a super volume guy. So in people take it as like, you know, he posed for me. And there was this clip going around that said, well, you look decent. Because listen, you, I know what the top. And I know what the top. is. Yeah. So he looked good, but I know, you got to turn it up. You know, you need to be better. And classic physique obviously is a, is a huge variance from the open side. It's completely different. So do you think, do you think that classic physique will kill open body building? No, no, I don't think

it will because people still want to see the freak shows. But what it does is it does definitely water. It does take from the open class, meaning I think some of these bodies that you see, in classic. They're in classic and they're hanging out in the classic because they're like, well, I don't want to push and get to the biggest one where like you've seen like a hotty chupiner or Derek Luns for two 12 champs go into open and become both become Mr. Olympia. Yeah. So it just shows that the lighter divisions are definitely going to hold people back. Listen, Bumstead turned professional and open bodybuilding, but classic came about and he took that

route. He was a little taller. But I mean, you saw he competed in an open show, his last show. you know, could have won that show. Yeah. Against the guy that got fourth in the Olympia that year. Yeah. So I think there's some bodies, like you said, there's some people that stand higher, but at the same time, listen, the freaks are still what people want to see. Yeah.

I mean, I don't know how you view it or if you even pay much attention to it anymore, but, you know, people want to, people want that holy shit moment, like when someone walks out on stage and how does that guy look like that, you know? Of course. But I think when I think about it, I, I, I, I think about it. look at the social following, like, for example, someone like Chris Bumstead or someone like Sam Sulaik brings to the categories specifically open, excuse me, classic bodybuilding. I always wonder, you know, there's just like conversation around the prize money and who should get more money

based on like, if from my perspective is if, if, you know, someone like Chris Bumstead or Sam Sulk is bringing thousands and thousands of kids to go watch him, wouldn't that be the more valuable category because I know still open is they still get paid the most. Obviously they I would assume and I think we all kind of know they probably put their bodies through so much more stress than anyone in classic for the most part. But do you think that should change? Do you think the prize money should be different or should be more comparable? It would be great if the prize money could be spread. I mean listen the Arnold just paid a hundred thousand for classic physique. I mean two years ago that was like 50 grand or 40 grand or I think the Olympia paid the same.

this year. So it did bump it up, but you also see the open first place going up. But second, you know, it's a big swing. You know, it goes from like, I think, 750 to 250 at the Arnold. And it was like 600 to 200 for second, which, you know, at my peak, I won 155 was the biggest prize. I ever won Arnold Classic. I won three those. I won 100 grand and a Hummer truck and all that. But I mean, it's definitely changed in the times. But I think that someone's earning, earning ability comes a lot from the social media, right? Yeah. And I think that's where they can really capitalize.

So the shows can only bring so much revenue because once again, they're streaming them or they have the sponsors. But it's kind of a niche sponsorship where, you know, you got supplement companies have weight equipment and clothing and whatever. Like, where are the mainstream sponsors? And that's when the prize money can really go up. Or you have someone like Schwarzenegger who just does. doesn't care and like he wants to be the first guy to a million dollars for first prize.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the guy's well to do, right, with what he's done. But it's come from, it's his passion. So it really comes down to the promoter and like where that that money is going to be driven from. But when you're spreading out all the categories and you have bikini and you have, you know, women's physique and you have, you know, wellness now. Yeah. And men's physique, which men's physique, I mean, is honestly, the vision you were doing in the beginning is the biggest division worldwide. Like those guys don't get a lot of credit because they have to wear board shorts. Yeah.

Yeah. And you've heard that, right? Yeah, I wear those. But they've tightened them up and they shortened them up. But those guys are paving like the whole fitness aura of, you know, bodybuilding. Yeah. Because it's so popular worldwide. Yeah.

And I don't discredit that. So like I think those guys and I think they, listen, Brad, I think they all work hard. I think that just because an open guy is bigger and more muscular and everyone assumes, well, he takes more drugs and has to eat more food, maybe in certain cases, but there's also these other divisions that bust their ass and it takes a lot for them to develop and it takes a lot of practice. And you see now, like, everyone's doing all these things so they can do the vacuums and like that didn't exist in my era, right? No one did vacuums. And they do all these different posing every day. and it's so important, like the presentation, because, listen, men's physique, it's a front and back pose. It's not like open bodybuilding where it's like, okay, I can win the front lat spread or front double,

but, you know, from the side, this guy might be a little better. And the whole point is, is hiding your weaknesses, but showing your strong points. And it's pretty damn hard when you're against Ronnie Coleman, you know, or Phil Heath or Dexter Jackson or some of the greatest names out there. Like, I had to, I had to navigate and plan. Yeah. Okay, I got to wait till Ronnie does this before I go into the post because he's going to demolish me. So I got him at least like kind of twist and turn.

So it's not as noticeable, right? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, bro, you were you were also when you were competing at the highest level, it was still on television at some point, wasn't it? It was on pay-per-view, yeah. Yeah, fuck, man. Yeah. Oh, I wish that came back.

Like, you, that's it. That's so cool to say. You were, I mean, I, and Madele Bay, pay-per-view TV, and I'm triple-H there. I mean, Stallone was there. I mean, we had a lot of like, MC, like that kind of, it was cool. It was a cool time, you know. You, you, I mean, besides Arnold's era, your era was in bodybuilding, the best ever. But I didn't care about the money.

That's the crazy thing we know is we're talking about the money because I had the endorsements. And to be honest, man, like, I was just so simplified. I'm like, I just want to make a living at something I love to do. Yeah. And when I got in the gym, and like I told you, I started training as an amateur. Yeah, I won T-National is at 19. I compete against Branch Warren, who later, you know, competed against each other in the pros. How big are you at 19?

Bodyway, do you remember? I started at 200 at 18, and I won T-Nationals at 2.15. So I'm about the, like, close, I'm like 220 now. So, I mean, I'm, it's funny because I, like, I scale myself and I'm like, man, I haven't been this light since I was 19, you know? Yeah, but you did it. You did it. You can't do it forever. But it's funny. As a bodybuilder, you know, you used to see this. I watched that thing go to 312. Yeah, bro. At 5.9. I mean, you're got some height. So it's like when you're,

the most I was ever was too 80. I was as wide as I was tall pretty much. I mean, you remember how wide I was. So, you know, you watch that weight slowly come down and, you know, as a bodybuilder. And I don't think in that realm anymore because I've moved way past that era. But you're like, damn, like, when people, I tell people, because people still come up and they're like, oh, you know, you're 2.40 and you know, and I'm like, no, no, I'm like, 220, you know, and they're like, no, it's impossible. Because they don't want to see the hero be like smaller, you know what I mean? Yeah, but you did, you did your time, man. Like you did, you did, again, the highest level. The cool and against arguably one of the greatest bodybuilders, like, of all time forever, right?

Like, you beat Ronnie in 2006, right? after that so you won 2006 and then you won 2007 yeah and I lost eight to Dexter to Dexter and I came back in 09 won it back why do you why do you think you beat him in 2006 because this is like this was this the end of his eight yes because he aged out um he's 10 years deeper than I was so I was 33 at the time I won he was 43 okay he was still phenomenal I mean to be mr. Olympia you remember I mean. But that's insane. Just even at that age, it's still insane.

Because remember, we came from, if you look back, I mean, you started as a young guy. And I started as a young guy. And it was a young man's game. I mean, Lee Haney stepped out at 31 after winning eight. Arnold stepped away at 27 or something and went to the films and whatever else. So this wasn't a thing that, oh, you're going to do this into your 40s. Like I always had this inclination. I'm going to be like, hey, I'm going to be 30.

I'll retire. I'm going to be good and I'll compete. Because listen, I was competing at teen. I turned pro at 23. I'm like, okay, if I get 10 good years as a bodybuilder, like, or under, like, that's your shelf life normally is 10 years. So when I went against Coleman, he was, you know, remember he had won quite a, he was second to him many years, but I knew it.

How many years were you second to him? It was four years. Yeah. I was four years in a row, but I skipped O2. So, you know, it's frustrating, man, because, like, they bring the top two and they announced the winner, but then they kind of like, the crowd gets caught in the winning. And then, like, there's a voice that says, oh, in second place, Jay Cutler, you know. Yeah.

And, you know, Ronnie fell on the floor every year. And, like, this guy was my idol. So I really looked up to him. And I monitored, like, all his training. And we did appearances together long before he was super popular. Very humble guy. So when I was able to beat him, it wasn't the best Ronnie Coleman. I see.

He was starting to, you know, the injuries, like he had the tricep thing and the lat was starting to, but he was still, I mean, he was still Ronnie Coleman. I mean, the guy that was invincible and never to be beaten. I mean, you got to remember, no one's ever, no one's been beaten on Olympia stage up until that time. Yeah. Like everyone retires, like Arnold stepped away. No one ever like, like raining champs like that.

He won eight. He was going for record nine when I won it. for me it was like a moment of like wow I'm going to win my first but Ronnie's going for nine like how should I feel and there were a lot of emotions with it and I felt really bad to be honest because yeah and it kind of it kind of was tough for me because it was supposed to be my moment but just the way my personality is I'm always considerate of the people around me because we all work so hard and we listen we traveled together all through the year so we we spend a lot of time. So I see his heart and soul go into it. I know, listen, did he work harder than me?

I think at certain things he did. Like, I think I dieted probably a lot harder than he did. But I feel like he trained really hard just because he trained with more weights, but he trained in that really dungeon like gym. And yeah, like he, there was no show for Ronnie Coleman. Like he showed up there and he just trained, right? And he loved it. Like, he truly loved it. But we would travel and it would be like, okay, when are we working out? We would train together. And like I saw his, his tenacity with what he did.

And I think that that really inspired me a lot. So he mentored me in a sense, you know, because I'm like, okay, this is what it takes to be the greatest. So I use that kind of that blueprint. And kind of, you kind of navigate and create your own.

But at the same time, like we're all going to look at our idols, whether it's Arnold or I don't know who you like looked up to as your mentors. It would have been you. It would have been you. It would have been Ronnie. It would have been Arnold.

Those are people that I like. Yeah. So like, because that's the error, right? You're like, you're very impressionable at a certain age. And you're like, wow, okay, these guys. And I think really what people looked at is like, yeah, we're great bodybuilders, but we also were, like you said, generous with the fans. And we had like really good business.

Like we were actually financing bodybuilding when it really wasn't supposed to be a thing. Like that's the whole point. Like when I started and, you know, to go back to like the early days, like, I'm like, man, I want to make money at this too. Like I want to build something that I can kind of use as a stepping stone. And even when I met with Joe Wheater for the first time, he mentored me in that sense. Like he was paying me to be a professional bodybuilder to be a cover guy for muscle and fitness and flex.

But he literally sat me down and like, you're not going to do this for that long. You need to invest in real estate. You need to do things with your finances because it will run out. And I think that's, I thought that was really humbling, like a guy that now is putting money behind me to be the best bodybuild in the world to, hey, I want you to start taking your money and doing other things with the money that I pay you other than put it into your food and your training. You understand? Yeah. What, what, if I can't ask, what kind of money was that back then? I mean, listen, my first contract was $50,000, okay? I was 22. For the year. Yes. Yeah. I mean, this is,

remember, this is 90, 95. and you were still living. I was in Massachusetts. So that was livable for sure. It was, you know, it wasn't, it was enough to buy the chicken breast,

pay the rent, drive a decent car for the first time because I drove like really crappy cars until I started making money. And then when I, he transitioned me, he kept telling me,

I want you in California, I want in California, because at that time, you had to be close to the magazines. Yeah. And the truth is, as much on fitness and flex, where in Woodland Hills,

not far from where you can wear. Actually, right down the street. my old gym. Yeah, I was like, yeah, right there. Literally one minute right around a corner. You know where it was, the weeder building and stuff. So, so when you, it's a, it's an apartment complex. Oh, it is? Yeah. Yeah. Which is crazy because, um, he wanted everyone in California. So, okay, we can utilize you and do the shoots year round. And the one unique thing about me is, as big as I was, I wasn't in bad shape off season. So when someone says bulking or there's no, there was no such thing.

You were a professional bodybuilder. You were. expected to have some abs. And I mean, we're guest posing also. And even at the early stages, I was still getting some guesswork. So he actually said, well, I'll give you a big bump. So, I mean, he bumped me to a hundred grand when I wasn't even placing well at the Olympia, my first contract, you know, my second, it was my second go around. So I did 50. And then he bumped me right to a hundred. So I made a 50,000 extra a year to move to California. You know, it was a little culture shock, to be honest come from Massachusetts to I lived in Orange County and Aliso Viejo. So, you know, I remember the first apartment I rented was $1,400. And I think when I left Massachusetts, I was paying $400. Yeah.

So fucking crazy. And that was, think about that. That was 99. Yeah. It's like, that same apartment is talking about $4,000, $5,000. Easy right now. Yeah, I mean, but I think there were partners around Venice that were, I mean, they were probably really cheap. Probably like 500 bucks around Venice because, you know, it was kind of shitty then. Yeah. All right, boys, cooking rush for the podcast. Morgan and Morgan, check this out. If you've ever been injured or if there's any sort of work-related injuries or if you know

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And if you're interested, do it today, get what yours, make the power move. Let's get back to this podcast. You, one time we spoke, you said something that was really interesting. Let's go back to sort of your competition days against Ronnie. I spoke to you off camera, and you were telling me about how when you guys would go pump up for these, like, at the Olympia, you guys are going to get pumped up before you go on stage. I'm assuming before prejudging. And you would just see Ronnie, you'd be like, how the fuck do I beat this? Yeah, but you know what's crazy, Brad is like I went into every show, even.

I remember he'd take his shit off and I'd be like, wow, like, you know, the back and the legs, you know, Ronnie's legs were just, when he got to that level, we're just, I mean, he squatted 800. Think about it. And he did, I mean, we'd go on the road on a Friday night because his leg training, he trained the body parts twice a week, which I could never do. I was always doing once a one, once every five to seven days. I was just more volume. But he would be in the corner with six, seven plates like nothing.

on a Friday night at midnight, we'd be traveling. And like, it was just, he loved it. Yeah. So when I see him backstage, I'd be like, okay, I start analyzing and be like, you know, at the time, you know, Ronnie was so big, but, you know, he had a little bit of a stomach at the time. So I'm like, well, my midsection is as wide as my waist was. I had really good flat midsection.

You know, that's one thing about my physique. So I'm like, okay, I can utilize the quarter turns because they were, oh, we're marking down on the stomachs a little bit. Yeah. So I always thought there were some gaps. But it's so illusionary when you see someone backstage, like I would look at Chris Cormier, for example, and I, you know, he was second to me at all my auto classic wins. And I'd be like, he's not in shape. And then when you, you know, you get him under the lights, you know, it changed. It doesn't matter what you look like backstage. Like someone might. So it's really you learn, oh, you can't judge how they look. Let's see how they go down. And then of course, you know, my friends and family would be texting me after the callouts and be like, I'm like, okay, how did I fare up? And, You know, you have your biased people, but you also have realistic people and, you know, certain shots you win and certain you don't. But I mean, listen, I was second to Ronnie every time. So it's not like

there was anyone else really. It was kind of like a two-man show at that point. Yeah, I remember. And a little disrespectful to the other guys in a sense. I mean, even they would advertise it like that. But I would try to say, where can I, like I say, expose him? And I could do that on the court of turns because I had the flat midsection. I had the crazy quads, you know, the crazy, which, you know, his abs structure wasn't like that good. And he had longer quads and a shorter torso where I had more, you know, I had really good abs. I had wide shoulders and I had crazy legs, you know, that was one thing.

Well, you started the quad stomps. Yeah. I mean, that's how it, I mean, people know me for that. Yeah. The new generation, it's like any kid that comes up to me is like, oh, the quad stump. And that was, to be honest, I mean, that was just me looking down at my leg to make sure was cut. And I kind of did this to see, okay, what are the striations? And they snapped that picture. And that's how the quad stump was. And that literally, I told people all the time,

I'm like, I was just looking to see if my leg was cut. You know? It's pretty cool, though, man. And it's become one of the most iconic. I mean, you hear, I mean, it's just like the Sergio lever, like the victory pose and all that. I mean, there's certain poses that people hold to their, their recognition through their whole life. Yeah, like the Zizpo. Yeah, like yeah. I mean, you know, there's certain people that just have those things.

Friends saying. Yeah. Yeah, that's cool though. It's really cool, yeah. So is there, is there anything you wish you had done differently? Like at any point in your career, like if you had, you know, done this or that.

It's a great question. Because I now have a lot of time to analyze that. I don't, I can't say that I would have changed anything because I mean, arguably, like you said, I was one of the top guys for very long time. I don't know if I had the genetics to overcome Ronnie, although 01 was very close where I was ahead and then I still lost the show. Like it was kind of a little controversial that year because Roddy was off.

And you know, just because someone's genetically blessed, they may not come in at their best of their ability. You know, it's a lot of variables when you get to the show with water depletion. Yeah, tan-y, everything. Yeah, just a lot of stuff. So I don't think I would have changed a lot. I might have navigated through a couple of different competitions. Like I sat out 2002, and it probably was an open door for me, especially after 01. I sat out the Olympiacs.

I won the Arnold. I moved to Vegas. I was building my house that year. And I was getting heavy into real estate at the time. So for me, like I was looking at, okay, this is a great, like Joe had told me and mentored me when I was a kid, like stepping stone. I remember literally sitting in his back. He had a little patio in his back at his house. And he told me stepping stone.

I literally remember him saying that. This is a stepping stone to other greatness. And I think that's why I tried to navigate. And like I told you, the networks were really strong for me. So when I moved to Vegas and meeting the right people and kind of taking myself out of the realm of like, eat sleep train, which I told you was so important. And I knew I didn't have the head for that Olympia to go back. Because I just had done the Arnold. I just won my first Arnold.

I won a good prize there. I won a Hummer. I just built a beautiful home in Vegas and Summerlin. And I'm like, you know what? I'm in a good place right now. I can book guest appearances. Remember, we were only, it was 100 grand then. And I was going every week for $5,000 and merch sales and everything else.

I mean, I could book a few weekends and make that $100,000 like that. So I was thinking about the financial side and I was super popular in the books. I was really popular in the books. I was making the DVD. So I was doing the marketing in that sense. I had contracts with all the magazines. They all wanted to shoot me. I was very, very hot at the time.

So I realized that me stepping away from a bodybuilding stage would probably give me more benefit to be able to focus on building the brand and my business and like to get some good footing to really catapult over the next few years. So I did sit it out. Could I want it? Maybe. But would I have carried it is the question. Just because I was second all those years to Ronnie doesn't mean that I would have been

as motivated because I feel like him being there kept me super motivated. And then once he stepped away, he stopped in 07. You see, I lost in 08. Yeah. I lost to Dexter. And I came in off because I got complacent because I started focusing again on, okay, I'm going to travel and I'm going to be the embed. and I'm Mr. Olympia.

And there's so much pressure for you to show up and you're in the suit and tie and you're speaking and, you know, you're every event because, you know, you just have to be there because you're the, the representation of the whole IFB and whatever else, the organization. I felt that pressure. And it made me lose a little bit of track of that simple pattern that got me to the top. which is eat sleep train and no noise and you know I started going out you know what I mean I'd had more friends and dude I would everywhere I'd go I'd have an entourage yeah everywhere the entourage was like I'd show up at the gym not kidding I'd come here in Vegas and I'd say okay meet me at the gym

like a couple of my buddies and there'd be 10 people and we'd all like okay well I'm only training with this guy and like I can't train with more than two people so like there's three of us to rotate because my rest times were like my training was like super intense. So I'm like, you guys have to go do whatever you do. And, you know, but they all just wanted to be close to me. You, you know the circles. Yeah. Which is so strange in a sense, right? Yeah. To me, I don't know. I mean, it's just it's that social nature of humans and like you're the guy. Yeah. And they're all looking at you like, oh, because they want to be either close to you, whether it's like some sort of business play or maybe they're going to learn something. It makes sense. Maybe some training

aspects and yeah yeah i mean listen when you get to the top i think people look at like okay what's the secret that's the biggest question is what's the secret to being the best yeah what do you think the answer is i think balance of like not and not believing the hype interesting like i was super humble in a sense where i like i told you i sit after a contest and say how can i be better for the next year i never looked at my physique and thought it was the best that's and i never but i never took i never was that guy that looks in the mirror and say, I can't wear their shirt

because I don't look big enough. You know how you want to be? I would go to the gym and tank top in shorts every day, whether I was on or off drugs because the truth is, is like, there was no TRT and there was no cruising

or bridging. Yeah. There was just, you stop cold turkey and you just, you got big and cut for the show because the only way to get the cuts and hold that size was to use anabolic.

Yeah. So I would, would actually cycle for the contest and literally come off and your whole career zero zero zero zero nothing for how long months and ronnie did the same way me ronnie didn't train for months at a time and that's the difference between today's era versus and listen i'm in the i'm in the wellness space i have a trt kingdom which is my business yeah so i know now like and listen i was doing all the blood work my ex-wife was a nurse practitioner so i had all the doctors monitoring all my stuff and i never had any health markers out of place. Yeah, some liver enzymes and what else. But like it wasn't,

I don't believe that the substance made everything like you said. You have to eat. You said that yourself. Train and whatever. Oh, if I just took what he took, I would. No, that's completely bullshit. It's all comes down to like, what's, am I a hyper responder? And if you've heard that term before, so I believe I'm a hyper responder because I can just look at weights and I can grow. And I was had the ability to have not too many weak body parts. And that's another thing that you see a lot of these top body bows, like they don't have the calves or they don't have this. Like I had the ability. And that's one thing that really Ronnie. I think Ronnie's calves weren't that good. But I had full balance of everything. Yeah, his back was out of control just like Doreen Yates. But did Doreen Yates have the

best arms? Not really. Yeah. Best shoulders, not really. I mean, everyone has the weak points. It's like Phil Heath probably put together the best of anyone of Mr. Olympias. Yeah. Like he had everything, but he didn't have the width in the beginning. Like I had the crazy shoulder width. Yeah, wider waist, but it was offset by the huge quads. It created that X frame. So I think that, you know, we all have those abilities, but, I mean. It is crazy how powerful genetics are.

I mean, it's without. Yeah, but how do you wake up? How do you wake up in someone at 17? Like, we see the guys, you see him at zoo. Yeah. That kid has it. I mean, you picked out probably some great bodybuilders. Yeah, yeah.

And think about if they would have gone all the way, if they had it here. Well, yeah. I mean, that's the most interesting thing about this conversation when we talk about steroids, the bodybuilding, like the weak body parts. It's, you have to be able to have it all. Yeah, but it's the mindset too. But, and that's one thing that, like, if you, if you interviewed Chris Aceto met me when I was 18 who coached me from the time to my first Olympia victory, he was my,

coach when no one there were no coaches then he was just my nutritionist so he wrote a diet plan for me six meals and he would he would just adjust my diet we'd take pictures because back then like you didn't have internet so we'd take Polaroid pictures and I'd mail them FedEx overnight so sick I'd mail them FedEx so we'd take the pictures and once a week check-ins FedEx them overnight $14 I think it cost me and I he would get him in Maine and then he'd be like wow the pictures are a little dark can you do another set so we'd have to do another wind up camera and mail them overnight.

So we were talking about the genetics and he would tell you that from day one I saw what Jay had that a lot of guys didn't have and that was here and it came from the concrete I have to credit my family to that because I was literally after school school vacations

every weekend I worked the family business and I learned the value of a dollar that way too but I was wildly successful with the ability to learn business because I started 11. My family started the business when I was 11. So for me, I learned all that so early that when I got into bodybuilding, I knew exactly how to navigate. Yeah. But it sounds like it's a work at the thing overall.

Like just putting your mind to something and saying, I'm just going to fucking do this. Well, it's like now you say, I'm locked in. Yeah. I was locked in 24-7. I mean, you know, when, like, if you want to get into, I want to lock it and do more content or knock out podcast. Like, you have to put yourself in a realm to do that. Yeah. I want to, I want to go back to the, can we talk about the steroid thing a little bit? Um, if you're comfortable with that. What were your cycles like actually? I wish I could tell you what they were because it was really,

we would navigate with what was available because, you know, some people say, well, I had a doctor prescribing me this and that and this those things happen but like we were using exotic stuff like parable and before it trend you know there's like people talk about trend and parable and was like 76 milligram say well you take two a week you know not like these guys take a thousand milligrams of trend which is absolutely absurd right yeah it's it's just crazy but uh you know the basic testosterone i mean obviously gh came into play later when it was affordable and when it became a thing I think that's really what you saw the bodies really expand. But, I mean, it was just in prima ball and Winstrel,

all those things that, you know, the certain cycle for a show, it would be like four weeks of this, four weeks of this, and then the last four weeks is like more cutting agents, right? Yeah. Like I said, bodybuilding, you know, anyone can put on size, but to have the size with the condition factor and have detail,

that's where it separates the, men from the boys because the drugs don't do that. They help with that, but you also need to have your training aspect so you can work the cuts into and have the deeper shoulder and, you know, have the bicep peak with the split and the biceps, the strided triceps. You know, all those things, you know, it all comes into play. But, you know, as far as the juice, I mean, it really came down to, okay I had this this guy that I connected with in France that could get me because nothing really came from the United States at that point yeah yeah it was all exotic so but would it be like 500 test three like what was the I mean my my peak I mean I think I've gone up to 750 test but 500 would be a

like a sitting point I I never really went above that yeah because I because the reason why I'm asking is because obviously people are super interested but I remember being younger guy and being like do they got to be on a gram of this and a bunch of no and and and that's the thing I I just, I think that your average gym bro took more. And I know that people say he's lying or whatever else. And the truth, I have no reason to lie at this point. Yeah, of course. I probably have a journal somewhere of like, okay, I took this, this and this.

So for me to sit on a podcast and tell you, okay, for the 06 Olympia, let me pull out my book. And I don't know what I, like, I couldn't tell you, but it would be, I can tell you that my favorite offseason program would be echo poise and test. Yeah. I loved echo poise because it was a volume. fertilizer. Testosterone is your basis that for anything, I think that anyone wanted to put on any kind of size. I think that would be the go to. And then when you get, you know, Anavar, Winstrel, I mean, some people would use Anadryl 50. I mean, for getting big or D ball, right? It was never really D ball. He's held a lot of water. And the GH was the key, right? I mean, once we started to

dabble in that, you know, I started with four. I use a day and ended up at nine or 12, like in my peak. But I started at a baseline because it was unaffordable. I mean, yeah. Still very expensive. Yeah, I mean, I don't really pay as close attention now. I don't like anyone that's like, oh, I black market, I just, I don't want to, I don't want to talk about it. You know what I mean?

Yeah, I don't get anything like that anymore. Yeah, it's just I, I mean, I used to. I have a, you know, obviously I have doctors and whatever else and everything now is somewhat legal for what's necessary. I mean, obviously the exotic stuff maybe not. I don't even know what some of these guys do, but I really don't, we didn't sit around, Brad, and have, like, like, I didn't sit with Ronnie Coleman and have a chicken breast and be like, hey, so what are you taking? And, you know, you hear different things. But I think that's probably like the gym guys heard, oh, well, Jay's taking,

oh, this, this and this and this. I'm sure there are the stories out there. But the truth is, is, like, I was so individual. I didn't have a lot of people in my business like that. So no one would even know. And I didn't use like the supplier wasn't like the guy that everyone went to. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know, there was always that guy, oh, he gets the stuff, right? Yeah, dude, I remember at one point a buddy of mine, Brandon Gerdes. I know, Brandon.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was the first one who got me into all this, but he, like, we would legit order stuff. He had a store, right, a nutrition store. Yeah, Nutrition shop. Yeah. Love that guy, man. We would order stuff from the Philippines. And he actually, I don't know, I mean, I'm sure I can say this is fine, but he would

actually cook it. He would make it himself. So he compounded. Yeah, but everything I would get is in an ampule. So now it wasn't any 10 cc bottles like that, you know, like now it's like everything comes like multi, multi dose vials. Yeah. They would just like single snapoffs. They'd come with like a saw and all. You know, it's just to go back, you know, that's what you kind of miss about the old days a little bit, you know, and people always criticize the new guys how they look. I really think it's more of the training to be honest. I think I think what we, I think what we, we were talking about earlier, the thing that makes it harder for people now is the balancing, the social, the business, trying to do it all. Yeah, but if you go, yeah, it is. But it's also,

the diet techniques are different. I think people rely on cheat days now, which we didn't have any 16 weeks of like nothing. We didn't have any off diet anything. If we needed to bump up calories, we just have more chicken and more rice or whatever. Yeah. But I think that the machine training, which there's a lot of great equipment out there, we were free weights, man. Like I went in and I squatted. I used to squat until my nose bled. I mean, I was squat in 700 at 19.

Bro, that's insane. I'd squat on a two by four on my heel, you know, to really extend, put the pressure on the frontal quads. And I developed that crazy, almost like tumor like in my thighs. You know, I had the crazy sweep. And I truly believe that's from squatting on it. They had a little piece of shit two by four in the gym and we'd squat on that. It wasn't 10 pound blades or 25s.

It was a two by four, like a short one. And then, you know, we did all free weights, dumbbells, barbells, everyone benched, barbell bench, barbell incline. You know what I mean? Yeah. So there was a lot of... I always wonder what you're... Old school.

Yeah, no, it was just like barbell work. And I remember seeing a video and I said it before we started the podcast of you, incline benching 405, like it was like 225 or just like a machine. I was always so curious what your actual maxis would have been. $5.50 for two is what I've done. On an incline? On a flat bench. That's insane as a professional bodyboat.

Yeah, but I weighed 300 pounds. Yeah, but like you're, I mean, that's like powerlifting numbers. I mean, you did that weight, didn't you? Yeah. How much you do? How much did I weigh? No, how much you push? I did 505.

You know, it's funny because people still, I had a guy that asked me last week, you know, he's walking, he saw me. I was leaving cheesecake factory. How much bench? He says to me, and I'm looking, I'm like, holy, bro, I'm feeling. 50 years, you know what I mean? And he's like, I said, well, I did 550, you know, in my prime. He's like, oh, man, you know, but, you know, he saw I had a little muscle and I'm thinking in my head, like, that was like when I was early 20s, you know, once I got paid, I didn't max out ever.

I didn't take the risk. I mean, anyone, I get nervous when I watch people these, these benching contests, like at the expos and stuff and these, someone just doesn't even warm up and they get onto the bench and they, I'm thinking, oh my God, please don't tear your pack, you know? Because that's like, you know, I've seen it. You ever seen anyone tear the pack? It's not. I had recently slightly tore because I was on a fucking live stream just fucking off. And I just no warm up, I think it was like 365 and I was like, this is easy.

I did it. I put it down and I was like, oh shit. I just like, I heard that. I was like, oh, that's not good. Do that feeling when you're scary or shit ever. Oh, I've had it. I've done it several times on a flat bench four or five just cranking it out. and all of a sudden you get that like, it's almost like electric shock and you're like, oh,

and I'm like, okay, I've never benching again. And it got to the point where the last one at 405, I was just, because I could just, I mean, dude, it was just like nothing. It was 135 moved as easy as 405 when you have a certain amount of mass and strength. And obviously you're, when you're so big, your chest is out to here, the range of motion short too. So it's like, you can just pound that out. So I was like, I remember I tweaked it the last time. literally remember I was at the gold's gym on Decatur, Sahara.

I remember exactly what bench it was. And I racked that shit. And I was like, no more. I'm done. No more, no more heavy weights. And that was the last time I ever did four or five on the, I don't think I ever flat benched again free weight after that.

I did Smith machine. I was like 30, probably 30. It was before I won the Olympia. You're like, fuck this. Yeah. Because I'm like,

okay, I'm paid. I'm, this is my career. You know, a peck tear can wipe your whole career. I mean, especially as a body.

Yeah, I mean, if I do it, if it's a belly tear, I mean, obviously, like, if you detach, you can fix it, but I think, you know, when you tear a belly, it's, you don't ever look the same. Yeah, it's, you know, you're judged on, you know, what you're, what was your most proud body part. Like, if you were like, this is the best. Yeah, my legs. Yeah. And there was a genetic. I mean, I, like, I told you, I said, I swatted. In high school, I always had big legs. I mean, I was a full back and when did you, when did you, like, when did you know, how old were you when you're like, oh, I could really do this? I came to gold's. I came to gold's. I came to golds. Jim Venice, after I won teen nationals in the summer of 93. And I got, it's crazy story because Chris Isito called me and it's like, hey, I'm going out there. I'm helping, he was helping Mike Francois, who was a body bill. He was helping him at the USA. And they had a misprint in this Boston Globe newspaper at the time for airline tickets, round trip from Boston to L.A. for $99.

And it was a misprint. It was supposed to say $1.99. And listen, there's a broke college. kid. I was doing security jobs working as a cooking stuff. Yeah, I was like 19. I just finished teen nationals, 19. Okay. Just graduated my associate. So I called and called and called. Like back then, I just called from like the house phone, you know, the Boston, like, hey, you know, this ticket thing, you know what? At 1159 p.m. just before midnight, I got someone on the phone and I said, hey, you know, this thing for $99. And they're like, oh, it's a misprint. I said, yeah, but you have to honor it,

correct and like, yeah. So I got the two round trip tickets for me and my girlfriend at the time. And I walked in Golds, Venice. And I saw the pictures of Doreen and Haney and like, you know, when you walk in Golds Venice. Yeah, all the photos. And you know what? When I walked through that front door, bro, and that breeze was coming through. I was in California. It was first trip I had to California. And living on the East Coast, like, you grew up in California. So it's different for you. but like our dream is to leave in everything's in California. Like the movies, you know, you see the Hollywood sign and all that stuff. I mean, I was pursuing a degree in criminal law.

So I was like, okay, I'll be a police officer. I'll try to get a job in California riding a motorcycle, you know. So I walked into Venice and I saw like Flex Wheeler and I saw, you know, John Sherman and like I saw like Tommy Lee Jones and all these people. I mean, Magic Johnson, he was training there then. And like all these famous people that you see in books and, movies and whatever else. And I said, I have to be here. And I got recognition, which was the crazy thing. Like I was a pretty big. I just finished teen national. So I was a little rebounded back.

And when I actually got people coming out to me like, who are you? And that's when Ed Connors came up to me, you know, who own goals gym at the time and said, who are you and whatever? And we kind of hit it off. And he took me to dinner. And he said, you know, I want you to come back out the end of 93. and I was able to come out there just before Christmas. I went from Thanksgiving to Christmas and spent a month training at Gold's Gym. And I'm like, this is it. I'm going after the pro thing. I don't care how much money I make.

I just, I want to be the best bodybuilder, you know, I can be. And I want to be in California. You know, that was my dream. Isn't it? I mean, you're in it. It's your life. It's you.

But does it ever trip you out like you did it. Like you really did it. Yeah. Now, now, uh, it does. You know, like I said, I don't want to, I don't know how to word it, but like, I look at all my accolades and I'm like what I've done. But to be honest, like you don't realize it to you go out and you do these meet and greets or you're out in the street and everywhere I go, I can't, I'm Jay Cutler, you know. So for me, the, the recognition I get is all positive. You know, you don't get anyone like, oh, you know, because I don't think my reputation holds that.

I'm very, like when I try to spend time talking to people and like I thank people for their time. But I think that I can look now and say, wow, you know, that was a lifetime ago. But all the awards and accolades, like I look at those Sandow trophies or Arnold trophies every day and all the medallions and everything. Like I walk in my office, I'm like, this is great. But you don't realize the importance of what you did until you have interaction with people. and you can educate like the next generation, whether it's fitness or it's outside of business. I mean, think about all the networks I've made

and all the experiences that I've been through. That's really what is the best. And it's not just here. It's worldwide. One thing about our business, we have the most worldwide recognition of almost any sport. And I hate to call bodybuilding sports a pageant. But it's, but our business,

is worldwide audience. Like every culture, whether you go to, like, Iran, or you go to the Middle East, or you go to Japan or China or you go to Europe, Germany, and like all these places, you go to Iceland. Fitness is huge. Yeah.

So everywhere I go, I'm recognized and respected to what I was able to achieve. That's when it's really cool. Yeah. Because I'm not just a guy that lift. weights anymore. When I was a magazine guy, like, it was like, hey, do you know who this guy is? Oh, well, he's Mr. Olympia. Oh, well, what's that? Now, like, I'm Jay Cutler, right? That's how people say, oh, but they say, oh, he's, I'm called the fitness guy. I consider myself more an educator now.

Yeah. But I think that your recognition, it goes so far. And like, obviously social media people are popular but when you went on a bodybuilding stage it's so recognized all over the world that that's when you're like wow yeah i mean dude like i said for me this is a bucket list even just interview because like you were one of those guys that i i literally before i even got big i'm watching and i'm like you know i want this yeah but you know it's funny when i met you you were a personal trainer yeah we're at we're 24 old or 24 but and i remember you telling me I love this because I want your audience to hear this. I don't even know what you're about to say.

Go ahead. Yeah. So you're like, I said, what do you want to do? And you said to me, I want to open a gym. That was your dream. And I told you, I said, when you open your gym, I will show up to be to support your gym. And I literally, when you did zoo and I know like Kai Green came that day and like Dana and a couple people like, but you were like, hey, I'm doing the opening and this. And I literally flew, I got on a plane and flew out there for two hours.

And I went back to the airport and flew home just to come out. Because I knew how much it meant to you. Because obviously you chased the competing thing, which I didn't even know. I didn't even really follow what you did. But you were a trainer that were helping people. You were very generous with your ability to communicate with people, I feel like. Yeah. So your passion was to own the gym.

So when you were able to do the zoo and watch it, explode to what it was. Like, that was your calling. I know you're still talking about doing other gyms. Yeah, Miami is coming up. It's still like your thing. I mean, but I've watched how many people you've inspired. Like a lot of the social people, like I know the background, like I, because I've been in

the business so long. So there's a lot of people that might not give you the credit that you built a lot of their background. But to be around your culture and you spending time every day and, you know, having like your cameras there. because of course that's going to draw people like oh maybe i'll get on bradley's vlog or whatever right i mean you were in the gym every single day putting your time in and that's if you said to me like i don't own a gym and people always ask me why and i said because it's a lot of time yeah how much time

did you spend in that gym bro i mean years but i love it the thing that i loved about it was everything that i have is from the gym my entire life my my network my friendships the best moments of my life. Like I could draw back to these memories or moments that came either at the gym or because of something from the gym. I was somewhere else. Like everything I have. I mean, I'm sitting in this house where it's where Steve will do his house in in Vegas right now. And me and him had filmed content for the last five years gone crazy viral. He's obviously doing his thing. But he found me because of the gym. He found my content. And he came in the first day I met him. He's like, I've watched all your YouTube videos. Like he'd watch him in class. Like he'd be in class and like not pay attention

to watch a YouTube video of me. And so he comes to me in person the first time I met him. He's like, yo, I've been watching YouTube videos. Like, I love your stuff. Can you film this like video? And he's like beer bong, benching 225 and I'm holding the beer bong.

But like everything I have is from the gym. So that's the reason why I'm so passionate about it. I mean, I love this industry more than anything. Everything I have is from it. Dude, I never met a person who is a better listener than you. When we talk about patience, like USA, you started this interview with like, how do you how do you give so much back like you know i was always the last one to leave the ex while

i was always the first one there and patience to train is important like you have to that's one thing i always give the young people advice is they say what is one piece of advice you can give me and you're like okay here we go like there's a million things i could give you but it's patience because this is a marathon to the top it's like it takes a long time it takes a lot of like moving parts to get the result. And I think that you were able to listen to what the people that you inspired through like the same thing. You're whether you squatted on the hoverboard, which I think was the, that's I think your most viral moment. One of them. Breakout, right? Yeah. Jumping out of the pool. Yes. Yeah. Because you used it in all your reels for your, um, beginning of the videos. Yeah.

You know, you know. So like that was cool shit. Like even I was like, fuck, that guy's like, he's an athlete. You know what I mean? Like, and that was like, I was like, I was an athlete, but I lost my athletic ability as I got three. I mean, I was, I was an athlete when I was 185 in high school, not 285 and, you know, muscular and limited. So I always appreciated that. And I like, okay, he could do that. But the hoverboard shit blew my mind.

Like, shit was on ESPN. And that was like back then, that was like your Olympia, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was pretty crazy. Social media, man. It just, I hit it at the right time. I just like, like you said, I did the competition stuff. and I kind of asked you earlier about the politics side

and like, you know, the numbers and should money be here or there? I've heard you say, I thought, you think the politics, I think in men's physique it was a little, I mean, I helped Mark Anthony win his first, right? Look at that physique. Yeah.

It couldn't even, I mean, think about that in men's physique today, right? I mean, it's transitioned so much. I mean, that's like a fitness guy. I'll just tell you, like straight up, I will never forget this. I was, I got second at the USA's. It's a national show.

And that's the first, that was the last year that they gave only first got the pro card in the category. The next year they gave out two. After I got second, because I was starting to get popular on social media, but barely, this is when Facebook was so popular.

I got a million messages for like, you got robbed, you got robbed, so I was so burnt out on it. And then I talked to one of the coaches from, you know, that time who had a bunch of people at the USA's and this guy who beat me. I'll never forget his name was Nick Garden.

He beat me. and it changed my whole course career, which I'm grateful for happening now if I look back. But I remember the coach was like, yeah, like, if you would have been my client, like you would have won kind of thing. Like this was the conversation. And then I got more popular on social media

because I was like, you know what? I'm just going to focus on social media because I can control what I put out. And I couldn't control the reaction, but I felt like I could kind of go in more of the direction that I wanted to go in without like, oh, you got to like this person. You got to do that show.

And that judge over there on the East Coast has to see you here. So you can win this. this show because that's what I would hear and that's what I would know to be true based on other things I was told from other competitors and from what I was told like firsthand. Then I was invited, I will never forget, I'm more popular now. Then I was invited directly by Lee Thompson was his name. He did shows in Texas.

And this is when I'm popular. And remember, the first time when I lost, I wasn't popular social media. Social media was just kind of like this. And he goes, come do my show, you'll win. And I'm like, that's kind of weird, but like, fuck it, I'll do it. I went and I did the show. Obviously, I didn't show up fat. I showed up in shape, but I won.

And I remember after that, I was like, I hate this industry. I'm not going to compete anymore. This is clearly a popularity contest and not a physique contest. And that's what made me be like, why am I going to dedicate my life to this so other people? Because it's like this money making scheme. And I get it to business. But it really burnt me out and made me just be like, I'm not going to do this. But it was one of the biggest blessings I could have ever had, right?

Because it pushed me just to go, okay, I'm just going to focus on social media. And then, you know, the rest is history. So that's why I had that. Maybe at that level, you know, you're in that California, like, whole thing with a new division. They're trying to figure out the criteria. Yeah. And I think that, you know, it was like. Because I did the first show, the first Orange County show.

I'll never forget. A lot of you guys were in it. A lot of the guy, the pioneer guys were in it. Yeah, I did the first show. I'll never forget. It was like, I showed up. I was barely in shape. But some woman, she was like, you should do the show.

This men's physique. It's coming out. Do the show. And I, like, showed up, just got tan, took my shirt off. It was like, got fifth. place out of like six people. And I was like, oh, I have to look way better. Okay.

And then I won. Because you didn't know. Who knew what the criteria was? It was so new, right? It was literally the first show. Yeah. So, I mean, that wasn't anything to go by. I mean, so when you talk about, like, you're talking to someone that the politics,

like at the Olympia, like, I was dealing with Olympias, like, top level. And like, you still have to have the goods. Yeah. Like, there was a lot of, like, remember Gunter Schlierclamp. He was like super. popular German guy smiled all the time. People loved him, but he just didn't have the physique to really win. He ended up beating Ronnie in Ronnie's reign at the show of strength, which was not Olympia show. But like, everyone always like, oh, it's kind of politics. You know, he was Joe Weeter's

guy and whatever else. He loved the marketable guys for the books. And I think that, you know, maybe people might have looked at that level. But when I was getting second to Ronnie and I just felt like it wasn't as much politics. Yeah. No, I get it. At that much. It was still physiques, you know. Yeah, and at that level, it's just like, you couldn't politic your way out of that. Like, it was- I just love the fact that now, though, these guys are actually for first, you can get a big prize. I think that, you know, $750 at the Arnold, I mean, it's not like some of these other sports,

but it's a good payday. Yeah. Well, there's also, I mean, there's now there's millions and millions of dollars just in the industry, even outside of competing that is able, you're able to make. Yes, but you need to be able to branch out and do that. Like I don't think any bodybuilders are streaming now or or, you know, obviously they did the YouTube thing. I mean, I still do like YouTube and I do, you know, clips and whatever else. You know, I do a podcast.

So I mean, there's that social media aspect. There's a lot of endorsement deals, though, of now outside that kind of built on your, on your social media, but not directly for, oh, we need you to be the best bodybuild in the world. No, yeah. It's just, it's more just a relationship with an audience thing. Yeah. If you can interact with your fans and you have a message that you can clearly put across and you stay to it and you're like that's people look at it and say, okay, that's what that person's

about. I think the ability is endless for these guys. I think they are way more opportunity than than Ronnie and I had at our peak. I mean, everyone looked at us as like the pioneers of endorsement deals. But, you know, because we were paid so well. And that's where our money was made, not off the prize money. like no one ever looked at, I never, I don't think Ronnie ever looked at, oh, I want a hundred at the, I mean, we put that, you know, in tissue massage, I probably spent $100,000 a year,

you know what I mean? The most expensive sport, body, man, for sure. I mean, the food and everyone's how he said, why don't you spend on, you know, 50,000 a year on, I just throw numbers out because I, and it's just like you asking me, like, what's your cycle? It's like, okay, for what time, you know? Yeah. I can tell you what my favorite is offseason, but like it really just, everyone, my body just reacted different every time. You know, there's a lot of different changes. When you add two pounds of muscle, it makes a huge difference in your physique.

Yeah. Who do you think are the best bodybuilders of all time? Excluding yourself. I mean, I think Arnold, I think Ronnie Coleman, I think, is going to get more credit because he's seven-time. I mean, Lee Haney, obviously his era. I mean, Sergio Lever was great.

I liked Bob Parris' look because he was super aesthetic. He never won the big one. I think Flex Wheeler is awesome, you know? Kevin Leverone. Flex Wheeler, but I mean, that could be. be the best body, but, you know, before he got really big. I mean, but the problem is, is the judges

pressure the guys to get so big, you know, the guys are bigger and bigger to the point where, you know, now, you know, I didn't mention any of the current guys because, you know, we don't know what their greatness is. Yeah. Flex Wheeler was, was also one of my favorite bodybuilders. He, he just, it's like he just didn't have enough size. Was that it? Well, he was against Doreen who had the crazy back and the judging criteria. If you really broke down Dorian's physique and body part to body part, he really wasn't like he didn't have the best body parts, but they just had the best flow. It's kind of like the Bumstead effect. Like I think Bumstead had in classic, like he just had the overall aura. But like if you really broke down body part to body part,

there's better like Ramon Dino's got better body parts. Yeah. But it's just Chris's flow was just better in his stage presence. You mean like posing and? You mean like posing and Yeah, like he's able to, like, when he gets in a pose, it just looks better. But if you really like look at body part to body part, you know, it's just like with Ronnie Coleman, I think that the certain body parts were really good. He had big, like crazy arms and he had really good back. But like his legs were, like I said, they were a lot longer, shorter torso. His midsection wasn't.

So his chest was more developed than the bottom than the top. I mean, I can easily pick apart someone because I'm an expert at it. But at the same time, like, there's no one that's really perfect. Like, a Phil Heath, I felt was pretty... Yeah. Like, he had everything. And he won seven times. And he really wasn't challenged very hard.

I mean, obviously, Kai Greene was there a few years. But, you know, I think it's all like what we are fans of or what we think is the ideal physique. I mean, I throw out names that you probably didn't even think of. You know, like, you wouldn't even think of Bob Paris or Sergio. Boliva, you know, who hasn't spoke about as much. He's passed now, but, I mean, he won three times Mr. Olympia, you know. Yeah. And beat Arnold in those days.

But you have to give Arnold credit because for his time, I mean, Arnold had a crazy physique. I mean, would it stand up to today's standards? No, but what would? I mean, everything's kind of transition. I feel like that would have been more open almost now. Yeah. Like Arnold, Arnold size and everything would have been open. Yeah, well, you need not open.

He would have been classic. No, he couldn't have fit in the, I don't think he, I think he was too heavy. In classic? Yeah, I think it would have been too heavy. Do you think bodybuilding is, is not dying, but do you think it will ever be what it was? I think social media has watered it down. And the problem is, is what, and this is, listen, you just said it earlier. It's a business.

Yeah. When you start having multi-divisions, before when you were watching it, it was men's and women's body building. Yeah, that's true. So like Mr. and Miss Olympia were the best in the world. Now you have classic Mr. Olympia. You have men's physique Olympia, Bikini Olympia. The title has, doesn't have the meaning that it necessarily had back in the early days when I started following it. Yeah. And to get a pro card now, it's a lot easier than it was. Like you mentioned, like you had to win whatever the overall and whatever you know this i mean people probably come into your gyms on a daily and say i fbb pro yeah and like our perception might be a little different and it's not

criticizing those people it's just the the it's so many divisions now that it's kind of it the the the ifbb like professional thing isn't as much status as it was at one point yeah it's almost got diluted a little bit. It's diluted. It's diluted. That's exactly the term. And I'm not saying that, like, I understand why. I mean, as a business. Yeah, you're going to grow. You have to you have, it's called evolution. So evolution, like if you just want to have a bodybuilding show and you don't want to have sponsors and fancy lights and everything, people are complaining about there's too many flashes of lights. There's too many sponsors getting. But listen, you've got to run a production. You can't do it on, on a limited budget and you're not you know you're trying to market this thing all year long

and you're trying to build expos around it there's just this is more than just having a bodybuilding show now it's like you said it's a business so i i always catch myself and say the sport of bodybuilding but really it's like we talked about it's a pageant because in the end like a lot of the fans don't they can sit and watch a bodybuilding show and think that what nick walker should win versus an andrew jacked and they think the guy that got fifth well he looked really good they don't understand the judging how the judging is with the symmetry, the proportions, the conditioning, like how important the condition factor is. Like, you know, someone like an Andrew Jack doesn't have to be as ripped as a Nick Walker

because the structure is better. And that's bodybuilding. Like, okay, well, how does this flow? And, you know, there's a lot of different criteria. And I think that's why you have a lot of the same panel of judges all the time. But listen, is it exciting for people? Not necessarily. I mean, that's why I think they miss a lot of the days like me and Ronnie, those best.

battles where it's like, oh, who's going to come and do it? Even though people thought, oh, Ronnie's can't be beat, I think there are a lot of people that thought, well, Jay's coming, you know, he's young, he's hungry, he's, he's got this, this package coming and what's Ronnie going to show up like. And the magazines would hype that. It was kind of the buildup. Now it's like minute to minute, you can see what guys are doing through social media. So it's become more of a social media game, which is what I'm in favor of. I'm in favor of because you have the exposure and the ability now to practice what you preach and be able to, like I said, educate. I think everything, especially someone like my age, my vision is now, what can I really do

to elevate people? What can I do to inspire people? What can I advice can I give because I've been through it all? Like that for me is really important to me now is the communication and be able to be like, I walk in a room, Brad. I'm the first guy to shake everyone's hand and say hello. I'm not that guy that like it's awkward and I'm like, oh, you know, like all these people look. I try to be like, hey, you know, address the room so it breaks the ice.

So people will take the time to maybe ask something that could be life altering for what they're doing. Yeah. So on that note, what do you think or what's the best, like the single best advice you give? And it's kind of a hard question, but to someone who wants to succeed in this space, Not necessarily bodybuilding, but I guess fitness as a whole because it's not just bodybuilding. You've got to have a message. You've got to stick to really don't try to mimic. I feel like a lot of people look at like creators or they look at people who have that platform and they say, oh, I'll take a piece of this and they try to act a certain way. You're just going to be yourself. And I mean, everyone has greatness within them. So your message, whether it's your, whether it's your family, whether it's your friends, what? everyone starts from the same place.

We all did. I luckily had a platform of bodybuilding, so I wouldn't say, oh, you need to, like, I remember Nick Walker's parents bringing him to me when he was a kid, being like, how can my son get recognized? I said, unfortunately, he needs to win a bodybuilding show. That's the only way his visibility.

Now, I mean, you would probably have almost better advice. Like, okay, you know, you go through, like these people come to these expos, they meet me. I always tell them, tag me. I go through at night, and I try to like and comment and engage. And that's how, you know, you coming out and networking at events, networking is the key.

You have to get out there, attend events, meet the creators or the people that inspire you. So you can get that face-to-face contact because it means more than just interacting through the social media channels. Because we all have events that we show up at. We're all active because we all have like certain times a year where we kind of all come together at certain things. and maybe what you, like, you're at the gym, right? I'm at the gym every day.

Come, come get a day pass. That happens a lot. Come check it out. And people travel from, oh, I'm traveling from so and so. And I saw this video and like, it's the craziest thing. But getting out there, getting out of your comfort zone, that is the key. Comfort zone, people always have this thing. Like if I would want to say my comfort zone, I'd be in Stirling, Massachusetts,

working in the family concrete business, have a bunch of kids, you know, probably probably never get on an airplane. But you know what? I had a step out of my comfort zone. And when I walked into Golds, Venice, I saw and I couldn't understand how people were there all day long without jobs. Like, it kind of blew me away. It's like, is this California or what?

Right? Like, people work out all day long. So for me, I think that, like, getting out of your comfort zone, having a message, being authentic, like, have that. And I think that's like how people can really kind of, you know, in due content. Like, whatever you think is stupid might be. be someone's advice to really kind of step up or go to the next level. I feel like that's kind of the way. Yeah. So you actually said something that's the most like, because I get, I literally get asked this

question at least twice a day, every single day at my gym. And it's the question I ask you, like, how do I make it? How do I figure it out? And you said the most significant thing. It's the individuality. It's who are you actually? Because whether it's bodybuilding or it's, you know, you just want to be a fitness influencer or you want to be a food influencer. It doesn't. doesn't matter. Like, because so many people now are like, okay, I want to be on the internet. I want to learn how to make money in this space. Like, it's, it seems to be the sort of final frontier of just like how anyone makes money. The number one thing I tell everyone every time is at this point, everyone's done everything to a degree, right? But you haven't done it your way yet.

And that's, and you said another thing that was really significant because a lot of people will see what I did or what you've done or what someone else has done and go, oh, I'm going to do this. this. And that can work to an extent to a degree, but in that case, you're always kind of following, you're still following someone else. And the whole concept, which is silly in and of itself when you say it, is like, you want to be the person who's getting followers, right? Because that's the goal. Well, to be the person who's getting followers, you have to be the unique one. And the only unique one, the only unique people left are you. It is you. And whatever you do, you have to be able to truly put yourself in it. Like this has to be your relationship to it,

meaning like, what does it mean to you? It can't be what it meant to Bradley Martin or what it meant to Jay Cutler. It has to be what it means to you, why you're doing it, why is it significant? Why do you want to actually help? Because I'll ask people, they'll go, I'll ask them. I'll say, well, why do you want to do it? They go, I want to help people. And I say, well, why do you want to help people? Because it's good. And I'm like, it has to be deeper than that. It can't just be just because you want to help you because you know that, you know, maybe you're talking to me. And that's what that's going to sound good when you say, it has to you have to continually go deeper like why do you want to help people and i've actually had

conversation with people where someone will then say well i want to help people and i say why and they go well because this silly example someone will then tell the deeper story which is like well when i was this age i experienced this i felt like this and now i know what it's like to be here and i want to be able to show other people that that's the key why are you actually doing it not just because it sounds cool or because you want to make money that can all be there it's the genuine connection to why are you So whatever it is that you do, like I said, you have to connect yourself truly to it. And that's how you find success. Because there's no other way at this point.

There's so many triggers. I mean, I watched my brothers build a business, you know, so I'm thinking, you know, my dad was super proud of that. So I'm like, oh, I want to make my dad proud. Then when I went, joined the gym, you know, at 18, I sat there and, like, I didn't know what to do. And I watched that guy's workout. And then I, like, had this trainer write me out a workout program.

And he's like, you know, I don't think you're, you know, I don't think you're going to follow it, but that kind of like, and I'm like, I wanted to prove that person wrong, you know? Yeah. And then it's like, you know, then you have Chris Aceto who gave me free time as a nutritionist because I had no money and I'm like, well, I want to make him proud. Then he's telling people, this kid can be Mr. Olympia someday. So you really think, wow, someone actually believes in me. It's like there's a lot of reasons like why you want to pursue something, right? I mean, like I told you, I walked in Venice and that wind hit me. And I literally, that was like, holy shit, I need to be here.

Yeah. And that's like, I still have this aura when I walk into Gold Venice. And, you know, I just mentioned to you earlier. Like I train seven days a week and my body, I feel like I'm 20 years old. I mean, I still, I don't train heavy like that anymore. But like my fitness is my whole, it's my journey, right? But what I told what I told people in the beginning with my workouts, eight to 10 at night, college, 18, crossroad.

do I do the family business? They really wanted me. I wanted to build my own brand or have my own business. So like the stress went away when I was in the gym. That's one thing that I still to this day. Like I have a busy day. Like people would smoke or drink. I just go to the gym and get a workout in.

I mean, that's what I do. I mean, bro, that's my whole life. I mean, I don't know how much know about me. But yeah, losing my father very young, just the whole idea, like you said, trying to prove people, like trying to get them to be proud of you. That was my whole, in my mind, I was like, I want my father obviously couldn't be there to be proud of me. But in my head, it was thinking, I'm going to prove that I'm good enough to be good at

something. So the reason why I say all that is like, you have to draw to something that's real within you, not just superficial. Like, I just want to make money because other people have it. I think that that will only get you so far. And it can get you very far. But I think there has to be like a real driving factor because bodybuilding at the highest level, business at the highest level, you have to really have a deep tie to something that's very meaningful and purposeful to yourself. Yeah, but trying to figure that out is the difficult road. Yeah. And how, you know, everyone's like, well, I can't be him or I can't be her.

And like, you know, you can't look at the time. And unfortunately, a lot of the social media today, like, they look at how much money people have. And they're like, wow, everything's kind of driven by the dollar. Yeah. Which I think that in our, like you mentioned, is it ever going to go back to, like, like the good days of, I don't know, because we didn't really, it wasn't a financial thing then as much as, I feel like today's emphasis is on so much money making

that we didn't have that over our head, you know. Yeah, so that you were able to focus on the real purpose. Yeah, maybe you're young, but I think, I think it's just different too. I think, like, don't you feel like social media today? Like when I won the Olympia, no one was flying private planes and, you know, not everyone drove a Rolls-Royce. and you know what I mean?

Yeah. So for me, it was like, that wasn't even on my, like, I didn't vision board, right? Yeah. The vision board for me was, like, developing the best physique and, like, maybe I'll be able to build a nice house and, you know, and own a couple things and kind of navigate that way. It's funny you said that. Because earlier you mentioned the thing I told you that I wanted to do was have a gym. Because I think, I don't remember what year it was I met you, but I didn't think that, like,

this was going to be my life per se. 2012, I think we met 11, somewhere around. So that's perfect. It's like beginning of Instagram. That was the very beginning. So in my head, I didn't, I didn't even know that I was going to be this social media influencer. I didn't know that I was going to go viral all these times.

I just knew that the gym and the community within it was what made me feel like, oh, I can prove that I'm a little bit better than I was yesterday. And like I told you in relationship to my dad, like I want to be able to prove that I'm just good enough as a man. And the idea of opening a gym was at the time, which I guess is pretty interesting because I guess things sort of shift, obviously. It's how life goes. But that was what I thought. that was the end goal. It was like, I just want to have a gym because this is what it meant to me

and I want to have a space where I can hopefully do that for other people. And then it just became so much more. So I guess what I guess trying to tie it back to whatever, you know, finding the purpose to actually do the thing that you really want to do. Again, it just comes back to not making it just about the financials. And like you said, it's very hard nowadays. I think because everything in society outside of any of these businesses or passions is sort of like financially focused and driven. I think social media has just done that in general in every category in every single. So it's hard to disconnect like you said. You have that other thing over your head. You're like, well, I need to build this. I need to save money for that. Like you were kind of given that a little bit

out of younger age, like through Wheater and stuff. But I think everyone has that like way heavier. And then that's like the thing that's driving instead of, okay, what actually makes me feel like I'm doing good for other people. What actually makes you feel like I have a purpose? So it's hard. I think it's way harder to find the purpose now. Yeah. I think I think also I don't know like your upbringing like mine, but like at 18, like you're expected to kind of know the path. But even at 25, you weren't expected to be like secure like you looked at like being secure and knowing like being settled in life into your 30s and 40s where I think today the younger generation like I have to be established at 22. Yeah. To really kind of get ahead and be like be like on a certain level. And I think

that's what social media changed where I don't think we had that pressure. Yeah. Like, you know, I'm like, oh, well, we'll figure it out by 30 and, you know, by 35, you know, maybe I own a house by that, you know what I mean? But for me, like I bought my first house at 25, you know, and I bought in California, like as soon as I moved out and like had this, and that was a Joe Weeder. thing like don't waste your money on rent you know yeah and obviously in california you know the values have gone where they went so i was really at that time but in today's i mean with with rates and everything like that and people buying real estate like i was flipping real estate like crazy and i moved here but it's like now the residential stuff it's just harder to make money because the rates aren't

as good and the deals you know everything's your money is made in the deal that you get right yeah it's just really hard to find the right deals yeah the world is way different yeah yeah Hard as fuck, dude. I mean, I'm about to fucking coin flip, I think, for a $180,000 mayback, either get it or, or do you mean coin flip? So Steve, Steve, we're driving back from the, the breakfast spot. And he was like, yo, coin flip me for this car. We're driving the car because I really like it. It's like a nice Mayback.

It's like, you know, it's out there apart. You probably saw it when you walked in. But he was like, yo, coin flip, which is basically just like flip a coin. And if I win, then I drive away with the car. If I lose and I lose $180,000, I got to pay him. Oh, you got to pay him. Yeah, so I'm thinking about doing that. I've been thinking about doing that for the last hour since he said it.

Really? Yeah. Do you think it's a good idea? I mean, to have rich friends and, uh... It's crazy. I mean, Steve's the character, right? So, I mean... Bro, he's the...

He's an insane human. I mean, this is, this is what I mean. Like, this is all... I hope you're going to... This is going to be actually documented. Yeah, yeah. Well, if I do it on filming this, for sure. Okay, because that...

And people see this and they're like, okay, Bradley's content went from, like, jumping out of the pool to now he's coin flipping for Maybacks, you know? And yeah. Anyone that no, doesn't know Mayback, Mayback is like the top, top, top Mercedes Benz. Yeah. Like a brand new, like a 200, maybe $250,000 car. But it's sick. Yeah, it's got the back seats. It's got the tables. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The question is, it's who's going to drive you? That's the question. Well, he'll drive it back. I'll drive the van back. That's sort of a driver with a my buck, you know? Well, the real question is, what happens if I lose? Then I just lose a $180,000.

I know, but you know what's funny. You know, the reason you're thinking about doing it, you've networked with Steve enough. You guys, the opportunity for you to get that money back is going to come up just as fast, you know? Yeah, yeah, definitely not how it wasn't I was younger. For sure, making money is way easier now.

But it's, I've always been pretty frugal with money. I'm just like, well, you've never been a car guy either, I don't think, have you? Yeah, not really. But that car, like, if I were to buy a car, because, like, you know, he's got all these like rolls Royces and shit, I just never been that. But that car, though, is like, that's right.

That's right in my alley. That's the car I would. Like, that's the car I would go by. Yeah, yeah. So I'm, like, really considering it right now. I'm kind of afraid. I was so, I was just looking for advice. Yeah.

You think I should do it? Yeah, man. You're young. You're young. You could do it. You said to me, do you have any regrets? I know, it's so funny. I was just talking about this.

I was like, if I die, there's no way I'm going to go, man, I shouldn't have done that coin flip. there's no way i'm gonna say i'm gonna if i die i'm gonna be like i should have done the coin flip it's just this social media thing you know and obviously like you were in the prime la where all these guys these creators live there at the time and like you're like the only one left now yeah seems like what's up with that i don't know i think it's because i just that work ethic thing i'm i'm just kind of insane on it. But you love L.A. don't you? I mean, I

don't love L.A. necessarily, but I, again, I love the community. I love the gym. I love the people that come in out of it. I see, dude, there's constantly creators and their streamers, everyone trying to make it. Like, I've helped so many people, like create their businesses, create their brands.

And so it's super fucking satisfying to just be in that space, which is why obviously we're doing one in Miami. I want to recreate the same sort of thing there. You like Miami or? But no, yeah, I couldn't live there. Like, I'm, I'm, I'm like, I like to visit there too. I would rather live in a place.

I would rather live like here, somewhere far away. I want to live on a farm somewhere. If I'm really honest, like that's where I'm going. Like I like L.A. because I can drive to the beach and I love going to the beach with my dogs, but that's about it. Beyond that, I'm like, man, I just, I like want peace and quiet. Like, I would like to live on a farm. That's my like, I grew up in a very rural area. My brother, he has like 40, 60 cattle now.

Bro, that sounds like a dream. And I envy their lifestyle because they never have to really get on a plane and fly anywhere. And like it's very simplified. And, you know, I know at a younger age, you're always like, you want to be in the mix, right? Like, you know, you want to do the Hollywood thing or Las Vegas strip and all that. Like go to the nice dinners. But, you know, when you get to a certain age, like the piece is a lot more. We were talking about that yesterday when we were texting, you know, about just peaceful time.

because like it's so chaotic with the day to day, especially with business and, you know, I'm sure you have a lot of things on your plate and you're moving around. So like sometimes it's like, I'm home for a week or two. Like I travel still pretty consistently with appearances. And it's by choice. I don't have to do that. But I still have brands. I recognize like, you know, I still have a supplement brand. And like I said, I do, you know, I'm still doing a lot of the media stuff for the educational. So sometimes like like tonight I'll film reels, you know, for more like, okay, some of my top movements or whatever for exercises. Yeah, teaching stuff.

Yeah, teaching. Yeah. So like I always call myself a little bit of an educator now. I don't really like to sit, oh, I'm a four-time Mr. Olympia because that doesn't mean as doesn't resonate with people as much because they don't really know what it is. I mean, unless you really follow the cult side of fitness. Yeah. Like you know what the Mr.

Olympia is. Like other people confuse it for the Olympics or whatever else. But I just, now I'm luckily able to be like I'm a fitness guy. I mean, that's what I did. I mean, I made money and finished. It's, I get it because it's the time period and just the younger kids who just weren't really even alive. I mean, to see it. But dude, you are hands down, one of the best bodybuilds of all time.

And I wish, I wish, I was talking to Larry. I actually interviewed Larry a couple times, but I interviewed him recently just like last week. And the same thing is like, there's a lot of kids who know about him now who don't even know what he did on the strength side. Yeah. It is a little weird. Like, damn. Yeah, it's funny. I met Larry before he came to see you.

actually you know he was in Vegas doing the the super super there was some super thing like this strength thing they were doing it there was a super show i don't know what it was it was like a strength thing they did it city athletic a bunch of lips something yeah and then he ended up coming and you know i think he started the PR line and all that yeah i helped him around you because obviously you helped a lot of these guys start their brands but um and he like yeah he was just a freak 22 year old kid that just could bench a lot and squawful and whatever. And then, you know, obviously he, we were talking about Andrew Jack, how he gave Andrew Jack his name. Yeah. His last name is like Chinua, Chinua.

Yeah, it's African name. So, yeah, so he's like, I told him you should be Andrew Jacked. You know, we just talked about this at the Arnold because we were backstage talking about something, Larry and I. And he's like, I said, I remember you guys doing content together or something. He was in a couple of your videos. But what I like about what Larry does now is, like he did all that. But now he's flying around the world. and kind of giving people FaceTime with his platform that aren't really known. Yeah. And he's kind of, he's collabing with them.

And obviously he's streaming now, which, you know, obviously the shock value with that, like you guys slap people or whatever, you know. Yeah, yeah. Right. I mean, it's funny how people, I've just so many people ask me, so what's up with that slap that he did, you know? I mean, that's the biggest question. If you want to know, like, when Larry Wheel's name comes up, like,

you know, but he comes off as kind of, you know, Larry's a very humble, like, he's introverted in a sense. Yeah, for sure. So like he comes off as like, just like people thought I was super arrogant because I didn't say much. Like until I'm asked to speak, I don't really say a lot. And I had to come out of that a little bit. But like I sit and I kind of just watch and then I take it all in and then I come up with a synopsis of what I should say, you know? Yeah. And, but they're like, oh, he seems he's real arrogant, whatever. I'm like, like, no, man, he's just kind of shy. But he's a good listener, too.

Like, when we train together, like, you would ask me questions and same kind of thing. And, I mean, he just wants to learn. I mean, I say he's a kid. I mean, what is he 30 now? Yeah, he's still a kid. Yeah. You might say that's a kid now, you know? Yeah.

Yeah, it's funny. The slap thing. It's just funny how certain things go viral. And it's like, oh, that's... I mean, it's almost like, because you slapped the guy... Yeah. Willa knocked his hat off or whatever. He took my hat off.

Yeah. Yeah. So the same thing, I'll get all these kids. kid like i'll have kids literally like like eight nine 10 11 12 be like you're that guy who slapped wrong it's like and then at my head i'm like whoa whoa i did all this other shit though yeah yeah i did a lot of other shit for like 15 years that's but it makes sense it just they they weren't there i mean it's like me with the quad stomp like oh you're the guy yeah i'm like yeah i was the best bottom in the world for four times you know yeah i did the leg thing you know you're that guy with

the leg thing or like i did shark tank with i would pet peanut butter for my dog It was like healthy peanut butter with supplements. So we did Shark Tank and I get stopped all the time in the airports. The older people and they're like, you're the Shark Tank guy. You're the Shark Tank guy. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm the shark tank guy. Yeah, man. It's it is weird.

It is weird. It's pretty cool. Time is. It's good when you can blend in a little bit like now because I was so like in people's face whenever I showed up somewhere because of my size. now I kind of fit in a little bit. So I'm like, oh, I was at this thing. I didn't see you there.

It's like, okay, it's good. I'm kind of blending in a little bit now. You know, I just seen as much, you know? It's weird, man. Age is so crazy. Because it must have been at one point you're like guaranteed you go to any gym in your prime and it was like. Yeah.

And now I get, you look, you look like Jay Cutler. I get that all the time. I get that all the time. Fucking Chris. It's like, no, that's me. And they, and but they, but they. also it's kind of like, well, I don't, I don't want to, I don't know what to say. So they're going to say that just because they're like, oh man, I thought that was you, you know, and whatever. And it's like,

because they don't know what to say. Yeah. People. But it's good, man. Life's good. Yeah. Like the kids, it's like super cool to see that the young, dude, I'll go places like 12 and 13 year old kids or hey, can, you know, because they see the social media, you know. I thought like only like the bombsteads and Sam Sulicks were those. No, man. And that's what I was saying. I was trying to say about you, like you've, I mean, I've been in this so long and strictly social media space. It's been like 15, 16 years and getting recognized. I mean, but you've, you've done this before the social media and you've still always been able to maintain relevancy. Do you still follow fitness to that? Like, do you know what goes on or?

To a degree, yeah, to a degree. Why do you follow it just because of the gym or people, like, Is it more people's conversations tell you, like I mentioned, Andrew Jack won the Arnold, that you knew all that, right? You know who Nick Walker is. You know who's like the new guys are. So the reason why I would say I know a lot of that stuff, I stay privy to it, obviously because of the podcast because I, you know, thinking about interviewing people, because I still, they're going to be wrong, I'll never be out of the space.

Like you said earlier to me, I think it might have been off caring, but like you keep your podcast about fitness stuff. I'll never fully remove myself from it. So I'll always be interested in the space because it's me. The other thing is, like you said, as I'm, you know, the gym opening the gym and as I'm focusing on doing more of that, I do want to involve those people who are, you know, sort of up and coming or in the space at a high level. And just invite them to come to work out to just, you know, make the atmosphere cooler.

So like, I'll look for people who are, whether it's a, you know, a big time fitness creator or a bodybuilder or someone who's like trending and streaming or something. Like I want them to be around the space and make the content there because I want to be able to continue the evolution of that brand. Do you think the culture has changed a lot, though? 100%. Do you think that in what way you mean? Like, like, I feel like we were at a, like,

since like during the time where they had the pandemic, I feel like there, a lot of creators were born. Like a lot of people were chasing like the fitness. And I feel like now it's, it's steered more towards general. Yes. More like fitness involved, but it's more of like lifestyle. Yeah.

I think everything, I think everything is trended. I mean, I mean, let's be honest, fitness is hard. Like if you're just really transparent with it, it's not, it's not easy to build a crazy physique. You know that better than anyone. Like, I mean, genetics aside, whatever, all this shit doesn't matter. It's, it's the hardest thing to do. You got to force your body to literally change. So yeah, the lower, I'm not, I don't want to say it's easier, but the lower hanging fruit is like, okay, how can I just make myself a relevant person to most people. So the generalness of it, a lot more people are going in that direction of like, hey, this is my life, this is what I'm doing, whether it's in relationship to like their,

you know, their heritage, their culture or anything. So yeah. And that's also a larger population of people, right? Because more people are, I mean, there's just less people who are, I'm going to be a bodybuilder. And there's most people who like, I just want to work out. Or there's most people who, you know, I have a bunch of good friends who are doing really well in the YouTube space. The Chico's, shout out. the guys and it's like they're they're putting on for their their culture more than anything and there's you know there's they're mexicans right obviously one's ecuadorian but that whole culture there's a there's so many people there who are like yeah this i like this because i i relate to it but they

worked out in your gym that's how you met them yeah right yeah no i mean they work out but like they're not like fitness professional it's not trying to be like a bodybuilder to a degree that's just there are people who work out who found their niche like through the gym through the space, but their overall draw is that, you know, this is what we're doing and we identify with this group of people and, like, we're having fun and like, we're just living life. Yeah, I just don't know if there's any new faces. That's why I was kind of referring to. Like an Alex Ubank or Sarah Safari or like that you're seeing like, oh, this person has that. It's more rare now. I think, you know why? Because we mentioned it earlier.

It's so saturated. Everyone's just trying to copy everything. everyone else. So there's more copies of everyone else. So there's no one that really like stands out because, and like I said earlier, the only way to stand out is, yeah, you could do all the same things, show up, go to the gym workout, but you have to be able to draw your true self to that content as well. Like, why am I doing this? Why? And speak about it. And a lot of people are good at like looking a certain way. So in the fitness space, that's not the hard part, right? Because you have all these things, the peptides, drugs, whatever. You can look a certain way, the work ethic, obviously you need. but people being able to speak their mind

and relationship to what they're doing, that's the hardest thing to do. So I think that's even harder to do when you have a million copies to go, oh, I'll do this because he did it. So then like I said earlier, you're just playing, you're playing catch up.

You're always behind. So that's why no one really like stands out. But when they do, you know, you could see it. If you have to try at it, that's when it, you'll never stick to it. Like if it's like,

I got to go do this. Yeah. Like I literally like, I told you, like, I go to the gym every day. And if a camera shows up or whatever, it's just, it's navigating on what I would do anyway. What I've noticed is like the best content for me is like people will sit like even watching these. Like I went to Costco is one of my most viewed videos. Like, what's Jay Cutler buy for food? It's like the same thing every time, you know?

Yeah. Well, think of Sam Sulek. He blew up after thousands of influencers and fitness creators blew up. He blew up literally because it wasn't about being viral. It wasn't about saying the craziest thing. It wasn't about even necessarily the craziest lifts. He was just a guy who brought back the sort of OG like, this is me. This is what I'm doing.

This is why I'm doing it. Like he used the definition of like the newer version of these influences that was just like, I'm a bodybuilder and I'm working out and this is what I'm doing. And I think that was refreshing because like my era was like, do something crazy, go viral, you know, do the fucking hoverboard thing. And I'm competing with myself and other creators to like go more and more. viral and then that sort of dies out because then everyone does it and then it's like oh this guy's just himself just training this is what i'm doing and it goes back to that authenticity so the

authenticity is the thing that people are losing now because there's so many examples well i think what you've been able to really your message like you used to be great at like you'd stand up in the gym and you do these like talk you talk right now you have the podcast that allows you to kind of engage and kind of voice what you you think and whether it goes between which i never really talk about politics yeah i do yeah right and you talk about you know fitness and you talk about music and you know you're in with all these creators just like you mentioned these these kids doing the uh yeah yeah yeah so like that's a whole thing i mean right it's a whole different culture but i think what's really important for the fitness

space which i feel like we we desperately need is the young creators like the sulics or like the younger people that get the ability to have, um, have a platform to kind of really introduce people to it like and actually get into the space. Like I love to see people like, like introduce new people to like, hey, this is fitness. And like you want some people to go all in. You want some people to get like I,

I mean, I just hit Alex a couple weeks ago and like he was showing his physique. He keeps throwing all these poses. I'm like, do you do a show like I got the J. Cutler classic. Come over and compete, you know? like you wouldn't have to go that hard. He did just drop some water. And, you know, like I said, the competition, I mean, some of these guys could just do really well with it, you know?

Yeah. You see you think we need more people who go towards the competition side? Well, attend the shows, maybe get on stage, you know, the stage thing teaches you a lot. I mean, I don't think you'd look back and say, I regret doing it. No, no. You weren't going to say, okay, I'm going to go all in like these other guys

and make it a career because maybe you just didn't see. the opportunity, which I totally get. I mean, it wasn't a lot. There's still not a lot of money in that side other than like some social media, but you also don't have the ability to get on stage and command a stage as much with a front and back pose for men's physique, right? Well, you are right, though, for sure. The thing, the thing that it does do for you is it gives you like a clear goal and a

clear directive. It's just then how do you... Structure. Yeah, it gives you the structure to get to a certain point. And then the key within that is just, which I think you're, you're, you're, absolutely right. It's a good idea for more creators in the fitness space to do this. It's just then the other side of it is just how are you articulating what you're doing, why you're doing it, the hard things in it, the easy things of the good, whatever.

How are you also doing that alongside of it? Because it is one thing to just like, yo, I'm just a bodybuilder guy doing it. But like, like I said about Sam, he was just doing it and also just narrating it in a way that people are like, oh, this is relatable. And it's repetitive a lot. Yeah. But everyone, your emotion's different on it each day. And people want they can relate to that because like there's good and bad times i just think people get caught up in numbers especially now and they and they say okay what what was the most viral and you might be more into the research on that like you might look back and say what was my top performing i know like for some of mine it was like gold's gym venice like yeah i met john claude van dam what was like

a childhood hero right mine was hitting on girls in gold's gym so really that was yours that most popular the video. See, I mean, but that, then it's like, then everyone took that, that tagline probably yeah, 10 times over, right? I mean, how many times can I say killing chest at gold Venice or whatever, you know? Yeah. That's what it felt like to me. But the collaboration is kind of key. So I think that that's the key now. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. And I'm not really great at like, not that I'm trying to be a social media, but like I get a lot of collaboration like, hey, let's train and whatever. But I think sometimes people's expectations. are like, I'm going to go balls to the wall like I did 25 years ago.

Yeah, I mean, that's not. Yeah, I'm more like, okay, this is what I did. Here, go through these and let's see if you can keep up to it. Yeah, I would want to do a video with you where we just train and you just teach me. Yeah, but what could I teach you? You know, but I'll tell you, hey, this is how I navigated in the gym, but like you might not teach you anything, but like it gives you a better, okay, this is a perspective on what he did.

Yeah. But that's valuable. Yeah. And I mean, people call it all. old head stuff, you know. Yeah, unc, whatever. Yeah, yeah. It's a little different now, but.

It's good, man. I'm fucking, I really appreciate you doing this with me today because you're fucking, in my eyes, you're a goddamn legend. You're a fucking all-time, man, yeah. Best of all-time bodybuilder, and it's been an absolute fucking pleasure. We've been only trying to try to do it for 10 years, you know. I know, I know, man. Dude, when I open, when I open, Miami, you got to come out.

I'll get your flight this time. No, no. I got you. I don't need an excuse to go to Miami. Miami, you know. Miami's always a good spot. Yeah. But you're the man, dude.

Like, seriously, I, uh, I, I, I just hope you, for me to you, seriously, like, I, I'm very, very grateful that you did this. I, I've, I've always looked up to you. I'm not kidding. Like, no bullshit. You were absolutely one of the people that I had in my, like, my repeat sort of, this is what I'm, I'm literally watching fucking, not DVDs because I stole them. I apologize, but you're, you were one of those guys for me.

They're all over YouTube now anyway. You can go on and watch all. You were that guy and I think you've inspired a fuck ton of people. And I know if you've inspired me, you probably help inspire fucking millions of others. So you're a legend, man. Yeah. And I hope you know it. For real.

Thank you so much. Yeah, I appreciate it, bro. You're the man, man. Thank you. Thank you.