RAWTALK - CREATING A BILLION DOLLAR CLOTHING COMPANY

Episode Date: September 20, 2022

Join this conversation with these three successful business men that built clothing lines. Our guest Christian from Alphalete & Ben from Gymshark give you the deep inside scoop of what it is truly like building a business. They all developed their brands around the same time within the fitness industry.We take a deep dive to talk about the challenges, visions, development, and the constant failures they endured while growing their businesses. Making a business is not a easy process, you have to work hard to be successful and fail forward. They are just getting started, so be ready and take some notes…SPONSORS:Https://www.buyraycon.com/RawTalk SUBSCRIBE HERE: https://www.youtube.com/c/REALRAWTALK?sub_confirmation=1LISTEN ON APPLE PODCASTS: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rawtalk/id1294154339FOLLOW RAWTALK PODCAST:INSTAGRAM | https://instagram.com/getrawtalkTIKTOK | https://tiktok.com/@askrawtalkFOLLOW BRADLEY:INSTAGRAM | https://instagram.com/bradleymartynSUBSCRIBE TO RAWTALK PODCAST CLIPS: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvzSBNBOK599FqzrTZS8ScQ/?sub_confirmation=1SUBSCRIBE TO LIFE OF BRADLEY MARTYN: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWTQG2aMDYKGDqYEGqJb1FA/?sub_confirmation=1SUBSCRIBE TO FITNESS CHANNEL: https://www.youtube.com/bradleymartynonline?sub_confirmation=1RAWGEAR: https://www.rawgear.com (CODE:RAW)

Welcome back to another episode, Rockdown. before uh yes but not in a long long time okay um you know how to just just mic etiquate because you just make sure they're directional so you don't like if you if you turn towards him yeah start talking like this like it won't pick up okay will you be like mike just like say if we're you know yeah yeah i'm real bad about that i mean the easiest way is if you if you guys want to put the headphones on i don't know how you feel about it but you'll be able to see like what it actually sounds like so you have a reference point i think your headphones are behind you down here oh so these are yours oh yeah yeah there you go and then yours

on there and so this is that's mine so I can I can oh wow yeah so because because now like watch me if I go like if I start to go like this and you won't hear me the same right so it's just like if you look at him now these are the sound if you guys want this louder or I'm not sure who's a check which one which one are you check check who's is going down yours uh go on check check check yeah yeah that was me that's you is that a good sound for you uh just down slightly down slightly yeah that's fine good yeah yeah okay so this is probably you might check my check check check check is that you yeah okay so now it's louder right louder louder yeah you like that i think i'm a little louder than that one

maybe a little lower like right there yeah check check yeah good okay yeah cool so we're doing headphones on you yeah yeah why not okay you guys are comfortable with it okay we ready to go let's go okay I love the cameras a lot of cameras a lot of cameras um fucking this is this is like a really uh this is an interesting group of people right I'd say so yeah very interesting this is cool so how many years ago like did all this shit start I know this is a 10 year thing for Jim Shark yeah right How old is Alphaleet? Alphalit's about to be seven in February.

Okay. So, the one is it, 2013 or 14? Is that good? Listen, I'm terrible at math, too. You know, you're great. You're great. I'm terrible at math, too. Rock Gears is a little younger.

2015 is when I started it, but I didn't, I didn't, like, transition until just about, like, a year and a half ago. But the thing I want to talk about with you guys, like, straight up right now, and we'll get into it, and each of us can answer this, but I want to talk about vision, right? Because 10 years ago. go you started Jim Shark yeah now it's a billion dollar company yeah fucking insane obviously we're a little behind god damn but that's amazing and i want to talk about like the fact that you know i don't think people really understand that many years ago just on social media like it was a completely

different world yeah like social what it is today is not what it was then there wasn't examples of what people were doing and what was possible like what people could really pull off in this space And I know for a fact that I, as far as a content creator, you as a content creator as a content creator as well, Christian, and then obviously you as like an entrepreneur, we did things that were completely unprecedented. Like we were all doing things that were just like no one was doing them until we were kind of doing them. And nowadays kids come and they're like, oh, I want to start a clothing company. I'm going to be this. There's a roadmap now. There's a roadmap.

Exactly. So I want to talk to you to about like your vision and how did you believe. And also growing up, did you always believe that there was something greater for you? Because I know growing up, I remember being very young and being like like a kid and then in my early teens being like I just don't, I never wanted like a normal life as what I was what I saw my whole life, right? Whereas like, you know, people grow up in the same town and then they get a job in the town and they have a family and they just kind of do that. Not that there's anything bad with that. It just wasn't for me. And I always felt that.

So I wanted to ask you guys specifically. I'm really interested in this. I don't think we talked about this before and we did your pod, but I'll let you go first, Ben. like your vision like how did you foresee the fact that like this could be a thing like jim shark being so successful and so it's sort of a bit backwards because i i didn't really feel like that like when when jim sharp first started it wasn't the case of and i again i'm not sure what you guys think i didn't think i want to create you know a billion dollar brand for example right so my growing up as a kid um so i grew up in the center of the uk in a place

called the West Midlands right it's a very working class town and the first jobs that I ever did were like manual labor jobs so lining furnaces with brick fiber things like that and that was like my first introduction to business was literally just through doing manual labor jobs in my grandfather's business and he would actually tell me that when he and he was a one-man band right so he would he would tell me that he had a job and he had to build a furnace and send his furnace to Germany and he risked everything he had on that one job. So as a young kid at like 14 years old, hearing those stories and then me doing my thing, I never felt like that was really a big risk. And I basically just fell in love with fitness. I'm sure, similar to you guys, fell in love with

fitness and just wanted to then make a website and then wanted to make a website that would transact and then make a website that would transact regularly and then swapped from doing supplements into clothing and things like that. So there was never like this massive, massive sort of vision until later on in the business at the time it was just very small goals with relatively small risks compared to those that I guess people previously had taken yeah yeah I see I I understand what you're saying because I obviously I didn't think if I'm just talking about from the content creation side or even the selling of apparel side I never did it being like oh I'm going to make tons of money and like

this is what I'm going to do because it wasn't even a really a possibility just from the content creation side I was just like I'm doing things that I really love that I you know it and I'm talking about the things that are part of my life, my real life, and then it became this thing over time where I was like, oh shit, people are supporting me because of the things that I'm saying or the stories that I'm telling or the content that I'm creating and helping people with. Yeah. And then they want to support because it's like I said earlier, it's a brand new concept. Like this whole social media and people making money in the media is completely new. Yeah. I mean, I remember when, so when Jim Sharp first started, some of the first people we

work with were Chris Lovado and Matt Ogus and I'm pretty sure Matt August Matt had the most followers I think Matt was though Matt was the OG he was the OG he was the first vlogger in the fitness scene especially in natural bodybuilder wasn't I and I think league legend like LHSAics L oh yeah yeah but Matt had mad about 20,000 subs on YouTube and he was like the biggest and the best so it was like a really small niche a very very small place to say that like the biggest person back then the most iconic person at about 20k followers is just crazy right because nowadays 20k followers on youtube is like nothing like yeah exactly it's it's honestly really

nuts to me man um i had a question i was always curious about this because before jim shark i think the only other company uh that really leveraged social media i think it was the first company in the fitness space to leverage social media um and you know i didn't have the biggest uh affinity towards this brand but it was called shreds treads yeah i remember shreds yeah did you get close what's that the clothes no they did supplements oh yeah yeah that was before jim those after was it was it i remember seeing treads when we were we were already in ohio i think we was in the arnold in ohio and i was it seen trades there i don't know but i that's the first time i think they were a little i think

they were a little after that was like the page at the way and like you know that sort of that that was like i feel like tuesday well there was a few yeah so i was just curious like they were first i think jim chart jim shark was i really think it was first so i don't know yeah that's what i'm saying i was like I was like, did you see anything that was happening on social? You were like, I can leverage this? No, we just fell into it. So we were fans.

So we were massive just fans of social media. And like back in the early days, there was like Scooby, Scott Herman, Ziz, people like that. Obviously, massive fan of yourself. I think my brother was a big fan of you. And he said, yeah, yeah, sent me your videos and stuff. So like it was literally a case of there wasn't like this strategic thing. I feel like it's so easy now to sit here and say, because we're here, everything was this strategic plan.

Of course. I'd love to sit here and say, from 2012, we had this massive vision and we had this plan and we saw social and stuff. But it was just a case of we spent time on social media. So it just made sense to, you know, chat to and talk to people on social media. And I think, like, I was just massive, massive fans of all the people that we work with in the early days. And I think that's why it was so fun and it was so cool. It was, you know, it was that really sort of tight-knit group. So, yeah, it wasn't like this strategic plan or anything.

Yeah. What about you at your inception? So for me, I've never had a job. I've never been hired. My first job was teaching guitar because I played guitar. And so I made flyers and I would, you know, hand them out at my school and say, hey, do you have a younger brother and sister? Can I, you know, are they interested? Guitar tutor?

Yeah, yeah. So I would drive to my, you know, the student's houses. I didn't have any certification or anything. I just kind of, you know, would ask what songs they liked, which were, and we would break it down and to do weekly lessons. So I'd really have my dad to thank for that. I mean, he, as repetitive as it may have been back then, really ingraining just like, no one's going to do anything for you, no one's, you can't rely on anyone, you know, you need to be in control of your situation.

He always just like nailed that in my head. Yeah. And even with school, you know, I went to university, university was college. Because it's been there, I say university. Yeah. But even in college, I was doing fitness videos and he would, I'd get a ton of emails, answer the emails. Yeah. You know, write people meal plans just in normal.

email format and my dad was like why don't you charge for that yeah get the square at that's what he was he has his business he would charge credit cards and uh yeah you know that like oh light bulb and that started the meal that started like for me the income to you know the idea of getting money on the internet yeah for a service that i was already like doing pretty much i see yeah so so when did like when did the vision i guess for both you guys and i could all talk about mine a bit but when did it get bigger like when were you like oh shit like this can really be something bigger than me, right? Cause you started going, you did content for a time.

I did content and then you were like, okay, Alfleet and then it started to grow. At what point were you like, this, this is a lot bigger than just me and like my friends selling clothes, you know? And like what was the, like once you realize that, you know, where does your mind go to like continue to grow it? You know, because you specifically, like to go from, you know, millions of dollars obviously to like a fuck ton more. it takes a lot it requires a lot yeah it's hard so so for me when at the in the early days right and it's just literally you and i'm going to say like five or ten other people everything's in touching distance isn't it if you want to fix this product or this delivery thing and you can literally just wander over to a different part of the you know the building and fix it yourself the point

in which i guess vision became more important was when you have to articulate where you want to go to a large group of people because all of a sudden you can't just go off and do it yourself you have to build teams and groups of individuals and people to go off and do these different things. That's when, again, I don't know about you guys, but I had to then learn to communicate to other people because I'm a massively introverted person. I've never been particularly good with public speaking and things like that. And I feel like I had to do it out of necessity because if I didn't, then I feel like the company just wouldn't be able to achieve the things that I wanted it to achieve. So that was it. I think the whole vision thing came more out of necessity

as the business grew than anything else. And the business just grew so quickly. It was a bit of a single swim moment for me when you have to step up or, you know. Or you can't balance it. Yeah, exactly. I do, I mean, I remember back in 2015, back in the early days when I was, you know,

actively guys, you know, hearing, you know, you say, you know, the night that you want to be like Adidas or you want to like, I think Ben always had a very big vision for it, though, to be honest with you. I think you knew clearly that. like that to grow something to that big scale is like that yeah i think by 2015 we'd started to see that opportunity i think when i'm talking about to the start i'm thinking 2012 even earlier we when we started sort of 2012 2011 um but yeah i think by that point because

we had we had the traction right we'd literally traveled the world we did uh germany the uk australia um ohio california and we'd started to see that traction i think at that point we realized that that fitness was this this emerging thing because in in fitness previously it was very much sports focus wasn't it like you had Nike and adi and all these big sports brand in basketball and soccer and football whereas all of a sudden fitness or how i however you want to call it conditioning preparation lifting crossfit party yeah power lifting bodybuilding all these things all of a sudden became their own thing uh and i think we literally watched that first hand from probably like 2015 onwards i think we like created it in a sense like i mean i i that's

the thing about this it's so crazy like it wasn't really at People ask me all the time, they're like, oh, how did you do this? And it's like, I didn't, like you said earlier, even about the growth of your business. I wasn't like, oh, I'm going to be a bodybuilder, social media guy, like became a thing just because of the stuff that I was doing and I was a part of. Bodybuilding's a funny one. I was chatting to Phil Heath yesterday about this. And we were sort of laughing because in the early days, I'm not sure if you had this as well. We were almost the antithesis to bodybuilding.

Like the big bodybuilders wouldn't wear Jim Shark. It would be like more of the, I guess the, you know, the men's physique, the more the younger crowd that was sort of, yeah, aesthetic sort of era and then slowly moved into that into that sort of realm. Because like a lot of the old school bodybuilders were older guys that would be in like, you know, Golshin Venice, like in their sort of old sort of stuff, not generally on social media. And then it was the group underneath that came up and then like lifted everything up through social media, essentially. Yeah. Yeah. So as far as, as far as like opportunities. in that space like for for like social and and marketing and all this because a lot of people

will watch this and be like and I get asked this all the time um how do I get sponsored how do you get sponsored what are what are your takes on this because I wanted to like explain this because I know a lot of people watch this probably think about either they want to have a clothing company or they want to be successful on social media they want to know about the business or they want to become sponsored I'll give my take after you guys I want you guys to give your take on like what you look for when you're thinking about sponsoring someone and then and then I'll chime in as well as well well. So I'm very hands on with with the athlete department and kind of the scouting and you know what into the people that we invest into and look for and the number one thing and

this could be because this is how I was sort of this is my background I guess is it's YouTube right and I think the biggest thing though I look at isn't necessarily a follower account or you know viral video reviews it's going to be if I watch someone you know say three videos and I do I'll go and I'll watch the videos. Yeah do I am I genuinely kind of intrigued. Am I, is my attention grabbed? Am I engaged with what they are saying, what they're doing? Do I care, you know, what they're, like, what they're doing throughout their day. And a lot of the time, you're nine minutes into a vlog and, you know, you're watching Gabby Share at your Amy Rooks, you know, a small YouTube channel, but you're super engaged in

what they say. And I think it's, you can tell by watching if you invest a little bit of time and to actually kind of looking, you know, check their stories out. Are they communicating with their people are they kind of giving more than you know the surface level sort of pictures or whatever that may be absolutely and I think that value there is if you connect and I think that you can really find who others are going to connect it's almost like you're kind of placing bets and you're kind of seeing who you kind of would line up with and I think that uh yeah I mean for me it's YouTube number one it's connection with YouTube yeah yeah I completely agree with that YouTube and again I think now because we've had the almost like the the the

luxury of time having been in the industry for you know over 10 years I think we've seen Facebook sort of you know change a lot right we've we've seen Instagram come out of nowhere Snapchat came up for a bit Clubhouse all these different platforms came up but the one that's been there the entire time consistent has always been YouTube yeah and it's like you can connect with people via YouTube in a way that I don't think you can on any of the platform yeah so this is I mean this is my take on it because a guy came out to me at your event and was like oh I do this jewelry thing and he's you know as an outside of like business person he's like how do I

get athletes and how do you know who's going to sell and who's going to do well and I could speak literally from like a similar perspective because like I've done it and like I've done well on my own just selling like my own stuff selling things that I could say without a doubt not to everyone that's the same thing is like you have to be able to connect with your audience it doesn't matter if it's like you get you know millions and millions of views or millions of likes wherever the fuck it is like if you find a way to genuinely connect with your audience that's that's how you sell a product right because I truly believe that people don't buy like from a brand just because they want to buy from a brand I think

at this point like at after they get kind of engaged with the brand yeah they will because they maybe like the quality they like the style but it seems like on social it's all like it's all like social proof so someone goes I like this person because of the things that they said or the things that they taught me and the easiest way we're both saying we're all saying the same thing as YouTube because it's longer format content yeah so for people listening just understand because I get asked this so much DMs in person how do I do this or how do I make this work like also how do I get sponsored it's like create a real connection with someone even if it's like a thousand people who listen to you like a thousand people is enough to grow an entire company like if you can do that over time consistently right and I just think like I'm glad we're having this conversation because number one I get asked this question so much yeah and I want people to watch this and understand it it's not just about a number it's not just like because I'll get people with DM you it's like oh do I need like like 10,000 followers is like it's not about a number it's about your connection with those 10,000

people or those 500,000 doesn't matter because like you said it's like you watch someone's content and you get to know okay you know the things that this person is talking about the content that they're making it's engaging me right that's the ultimate ability that's going to allow someone if you can connect with someone and they feel like oh I learn from this person this person made me laugh this person inspired me this person like made me look at my life differently then of course if this person goes hey this is a company that I like and that I said like support me if you're supporting this company then they're going to want to do it because you gave them three four five six seven times a laugh inspiration and that's how i've always looked at i knew

that that was the thing it wasn't and for me specifically because i'd go to expos and every time someone would be wearing all my shit back in like 2016 and i'd be at the olympia and it'd be this line they're like crying to me about their life because like something about i said about maybe my father i told some story about my life and they're saying thank you and they're wearing all my stuff yeah and that for me it didn't click for me I didn't really get it. I didn't get, you know, I didn't, I guess for the first few years, really until Outfleet was kind of 2016, 2017, really understand it, you know? I think that it was just kind of, I don't know, I feel like I was just, at all that I was in, like, the UK, you know, my body power.

I was like, what the hell? Just like kind of mind blown, like. Just because people had the stuff? Well, I would see like a CG fitness shirt and, you know, in the UK. I'm like, what, you know, it's just crazy. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, wow.

just like eye opening like I think it was just I don't know I even now like looking back it there's the formula then you can tell like I always referenced one of our athletes Amy she's our top three every single month in sales we're right comparing stacking up with millions of followers other TikToks and these accounts and everything but she's number three she she up 14k on Instagram it just oh so 14k so yeah just for reference people listening that's that's the point yeah that's the exact that's amazing dude because she in my opinion she's a mo you connect with her so much she gives so much about like her opinions her value just like she gives she gives so much and it sounds so simple and almost cheesy but the more you give the the more that ends up

coming back right and but you shouldn't start thinking like that you shouldn't do it because you know with that in mind yeah because then you can see right through it yeah well it's it i think it's a natural thing like like i said i i did all that stuff before i made money was making i mean was making ad sense money on youtube but i like did all that and then then it was like this big influx to like support from people over time where I was like oh people actually give a fuck about what I'm saying and then I would hear it so many times in person I was like it may it clicked to me it made sense and I was like oh this is why people are supporting me because they feel like they're getting something from me so in a sense of Jim Shark because obviously like we're I speak

from a different little bit of different you as well because like you were more of a creator so like you guys came out from the other way right you were creators first I think maybe the business came through that right whereas I was the opposite I I was pretty much off social media for the first, what, two or three years of Jim Shark, at least. I mean, you know, I didn't really spend much time. Ben was always on the computer, like, doing shit, bro. Like, always just, like, messing with things, right? I remember, like, what are you doing, man?

And just, like, playing with websites and doing all of these, like, I was, I don't know, to do that. Like, just, like, really, I guess, just really into figuring things out, right? Technical. Yeah, very technical. Yeah, I loved that back in the day. Like, one of my first heartbreaking moments in the business, right? So we have our mail system in the UK's raw mail. And I connected our website into the raw mail system, which isn't really like a massive thing.

But it was something I built a connection between the two and I was really proud of it. And then we hired someone in to take over that area of the business. And they came in on their first day and they were like, this is terrible. Like this is a load of crap. You need to get rid of this. I remember looking at them thinking, I was so angry because it was like they came in and they took that thing that I was really proud of and just ripped it apart. but it was actually the right thing to do for the business so yeah I spent loads of time like just trying to work out

all those little those little things and then just to be honest kept away from social media until it was we was in Dublin and there was a guy that basically came up to me and he said like why don't you do a video to talk about the story and then at the time I just met my now wife Robin who was on YouTube as well

so she was like yeah I'll you know I'll record a video for you honestly that first video I need to find the footage it was so bad I was like so nervous I was stuttering everywhere, I was dripping, I was sweating. It was just like me and Robin in the room, right? But I was so nervous in front of the camera. I just then didn't even use that video, then re-recorded it. And I think it was like second or third try, then ended up uploading that video to YouTube.

And then that video, obviously, it did well. You know, loads of people saw it. And then it was the kickoff of me to then start posting on social media. Because I actually never had a desire to do that. And now it's almost going backwards of it, it seems like, for you. It's almost like you're getting more into almost, embracing the founder a little bit, right?

Yeah, I'm definitely getting used to it. I mean, I'm enjoying it much more, but the first year or so, it was weird, I didn't enjoy it, and I didn't, I guess there wasn't, I mean, like Gary Vee and people like that, I've definitely popularized entrepreneurship and running businesses on YouTube, which again is really cool now.

Yeah, I wasn't comfortable with it at the start, to be honest. What about it, just because you, like, exposing your life? Yeah, I mean, even now, I wouldn't really post personal stuff. I think if you even just flick through my socials for 30 seconds, you'll see I wouldn't, you would never really see personal stuff. I love to have things that I keep for myself personally. I'm like I said, I'm introverted private guy. And yeah, I don't know.

I think the other thing, and I think it's similar to you guys, you got into what you did because you purely loved it. I didn't get into gym sharp because I want to post it on social media. I got into gym shop because I just really enjoyed going to the gym and I loved the craft of building the product over the sewing. machine and printing and I actually love the idea of making things and then social media has sort of just been a byproduct of that for me yeah what let's let's let's switch it up a little bit what what were some of the like the like worst moments you've ever had as a company both you guys can answer it's like whether it be like I don't know back in fuckups or like just moments where you're like that was huge like a huge mistake anything where you look

back yeah we've had so many yeah we've had so many anytime where you're you you're not open and transparent and almost like talk about issues right away or if you don't fill people in about I mean man we've done every shipping issue every we just there's so many big huge mess ups that that we've just we're learning that just like speaking about things hitting him like nailing it right on the head and just like updating updating updating is number one and I say that but as simple as it sounds like even a few months ago we just moved distribution centers we outsource our fulfillment I didn't talk about any the issues, bam, we're in another hole, right? So it's easier said than done for sure. Operational stuff's hard, isn't it? Because no one teaches at you. Yeah. And no one wants to do YouTube videos on opening up distribution centers.

And no one to keep saying, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, we're working on, we're getting better. Oh, bro. Oh, man, I know. It's hard, but no one teaches at you. No one learns this stuff at school. It's like, where do you go to find this stuff out? And then you learn through failure. But the problem is with things like that is the cost of failure is so high.

Yeah, it's fucked. And then that's why you end up constantly having to apologize. it's tough the Facebook groups man it just rip you apart you know and it's and it's it's crazier now social now because it's like I don't know it's become a thing for people to like just really fucking be negative yeah so it's like now it's like you you get a little bit of bad feedback and people just like to fucking jump on that like negative train yeah and and like when you can when compared to a lot of businesses right a lot of businesses are significantly bigger than all of ours they're run by people that are a lot more experienced than all of

us put together right so they'll have seen things and been able to to sort of fail in the dark and whereas like i guess with all of our businesses now is that you fail very publicly very quickly and then and probably worse with you guys they'll call you out as individuals rather than the business at least i still have the luxury of being somewhat like i think most people that come to jim shark events probably maybe not like the one yesterday but most events probably don't really know about me whereas i would hazard a guess that a lot of people that would come to you know awfully will know exactly who you are that will come to, you know, here, and they'll know exactly who you are.

Yeah. So I've still got that luxury a little bit, which I actually quite enjoy. Double-edged store, right? Because it's like, they may forgive you, you know, give you another shot. If they like what, you know,

the content you produce at the same time, it's, you know, from the customer. That must be hard. It is, yeah, it is. And I think, yeah, if anything I've learned, it's just share the good and the bad. Yeah, I mean, because it's two double-sided swords. It's like, it's for the brand,

but it's also for the person, right? Like, it's, the fact that you were in a space where we're existing, like building the company from social media. It's not like the company didn't exist. Then we made an account for social media. It was like built on the internet. So you already set yourself up for like all the, you know, the negativity if something goes wrong because the customer base is purely on social.

And then the person behind it is like, then they'll be like, I didn't get my order soon enough. Fuck Bradley Martin. You know, it's like fuck, dude. Like you saw the order come in and chose to send out and send out. And I would never do that, dude. In fact, I'm the fucking, I'm the guy reading all the fucking comments and shit. I'm like, send it to the team.

I'm like, I'm like, bro, get off the comment section, bro. I take it so personally as well. Like, I really take it personally when I see that someone's had a bad experience. Like, it really, like it really grinds on me. Yeah, it makes me pretty angry. I'm not going to lie. And a lot of time, I mean, the biggest moves that you have to make, like, for example, we set up a Canada Distribution Center, right?

Something like that, the long-term gain and benefit to the customer is always in mind. but it's like that's not really what's on the on the forefront when there's issues right with the transition we just outsource our fulfillment center you know but we were about to move into a 240,000 square foot warehouse and I was going to take that response to you know to we're going to do it ourselves or I'm an outsource so we went to outsource but now even though things are in contract and we had these security measures in play and these expectations 10x is it's taking 10x the time to unload all the items everything that you know that is the problem is Right, but you can't say that as a, no, we should have done this instead. Yeah. Right. It's always, you should have to take the responsibility. Yeah. It's tough.

Have you ever had any issues? Because I had an issue with like that recently too. Like, like, how many months ago? Four months ago. Moving fulfillment centers? Right now, yeah. Yeah, you're doing that right now? You're probably getting it.

It's better now than at Black Friday though, right? Yeah, for sure. For damn sure. Have you ever had any like big issues like that? We've had loads. So we, back in 2015, our entire website crashed, causing like through it was on black friday actually on black friday the whole website crashed i think it was something like

it happened to a lot of storage there was like a cute remember it was it was bad i think the numbers it was something like three quarters of jimshark's entire customer base had the negative experience in 24 hours like it was so this was really early in back in the day to the point where every single member of the jimshart team every single employee then spent something like the next three months purely doing customer support there no one did any anything else we the morale man the morale god it just like your team I our customer service team they just get like yeah you know to be able to withstand that like just constantly all day every day like did you notice after that a dip in sales yeah yeah I mean it took us it took us it

took us at least probably pushing two years to fully recover from that because because if you give someone a bad experience once then they don't they're not just going to come back right you have to earn trust and it takes a long long period of time that that was really really bad. I mean like we've got we've had so many like issues like we've opened up lots of distribution centers like obviously we're coming out from the other side so we opened up recently distribution centers in the US we did Canada as well and Canada you like you say is it's a really great thing to do for the customer because Canadians don't pay customers or that but yeah it's a difficult thing to do because then you've got if you go from one distribution center to

two it's it's not like you have the same amount of stock and just split it you have to buy more product because you're going to make more mistakes you then have to move it and to do different areas and what percent goes here and it's interesting even in between Canada and the US like there's a difference in what people buy in colors that they wear and shorts leggings color that's all different all it's very very different and then we've had all sorts of problems like with 10 years old right I mean you know Lewis right Lewis left Lewis co-founded the business alongside myself Lewis left the business that was like emotionally tough and horrible for me

because you know we basically it felt like a divorce in many ways and having to go through that was was really tough uh growing the business is tough like i had something similar to that really yeah probably like care i can't go into super detail about that but it's hard but it is it is like a divorce yeah and like with the best will in the world it's horrible and it's heartbreaking because like you know you you i think you you think that the company is going to be here and it goes off slightly here and like it could be different visions it could be different things but you know it's tough to do those things so and and even things like as the business has grown I'm sure you've experienced this too at the start it's all friends and friendly and

I don't think anyone knows when this moment happens where it when it switches from being just a group of mates in a room selling cool product to a business where you really want to hire the best people that you possibly can and everyone will have this moment running a business where you realize that a friend of yours isn't necessarily sure strong enough to do the job that they're currently in. And that's a heartbreaking moment, right? Because you really want them to do that. You want to find a position.

You want to find what you can still keep them doing to stay on the T. Yeah, it's a very, and then it makes you think, I mean, what is it, it really makes you think, what is the direction I want to take this thing, right? Because I think to level up and to, to be able to, especially once you get in like the, again, what, 10 figures, right? When you're in that realm, it's, the, the jumps aren't easy, especially. especially being an online, you know, an online business. And I think, yeah, I mean, that's where you really have to decide

are we going to build a multi-hundred employees, you know, staffed kind of... What is it that you want? Do you want a bunch of friends sat in a warehouse together? Or do you want to create something iconic that maybe you could even last longer than our lifetimes? And that's the balance. But that doesn't mean you become a cold-hearted individual.

But it's that weird balance, which is really difficult to manage. Yeah. Man, I have so much to say. I wish I could just say it all to this around this conversation. It's so interesting. Did you guys have partners in your, I mean, yeah, with the clothing? Yeah, I started out with some partners. And that, like you said, when you, you know, you have a friend or someone that you consider

like family and then kind of going in separate ways can just kind of change a lot, you know, because, I mean, I'm in a really unique situation more so. I think the new guys in this in this space but I guess to say the least I mean I've just been in situations where like you know you expect someone to be a certain way just because of where you guys started together and then eventually it just kind of becomes about money and business and stuff that you know I don't know I heard the same once I don't know if this resonates because I don't know what your situation is but it went something like if you park crazy and you get a little and you get paid a lot of money then you'll go fall crazy fairly

quickly and i've you know i mean i'm fortunate not to have necessarily experienced that myself but i've heard of people that have gone a bit crazy when they've been in that situation and like the whole friend thing just that's been probably the most difficult thing for me to manage personally and on the other side of things i'm really happy because i've got friends that have been in the business that you'll you'll know from 2015 that have done really well yeah but the reason they've done well is probably because at some point we've had to sit down and go, right, you need to be doing a job. We need to switch right. We need to switch our, you know, this conversation, this is business mode, this is not.

Yeah. And that's a really weird thing, how you can work with a friend and have to have that really commercial, genuine conversation around development and what they're not doing right well. And by the way, they need to be able to have that conversation with you. Yeah. Because we can't sit here and just assume that we're all perfect because the likelihood is we've made more mistakes than probably the vast majority of people. I think, I think it gets hard because when, you know, when you're talking to like, employees are people who are partners and you're like working together.

Like you being the owner, you being owner, me being the owner, like you, you have to accept that not everyone and probably no one is going to treat it exactly how you would treat it. And that can be a hard thing. I know for me it's hard because like you you want things to be a certain way and you want everyone to like almost treat it the same way that you would and then maybe get a little more riled up about situations and then, you know, it's like I've had to learn over the years how to be just a more efficient communicator. Like, I'm really great at doing this fucking YouTube shit and talking.

Yeah. And then, but when it comes to, like, think, like, you have to explain how you got there with your decision. But, and vocalize, like, this is what I want to do, but this is why, this is my thought process to get to this point. And sometimes just calm myself to fuck down because I get so riled up about it. Because it's like, for me, a lot of times, I don't know if you guys ever felt this way. And I'm obviously, I'm not fucking perfect. And I'm not perfect, period. But, uh, I, I, like, want things to be done, like, as good as possible.

and then sometimes I'm just like I expect more out of someone and I'm like fuck I wish it was like just done a little differently and I'll get a little bit upset about it but I have to realize like okay I can't expect this person to see it the same way that I see it or to you know to like want it the same exact way you have to be able to like coach it through but that's still something I'm learning getting better at me too I mean earlier in the conversation you said just like just like with the website thing when they came just read you know read it the structure I think for me it's I'm very very very hands on with everyone every product, every sample, every communication with, I mean, every conversation with the manufacturer, it's very, very particular. And same with the creative. And it's, it's two hands on to be fully sustainable for the, you know, for the next five years. Yeah, you need to fix that. Yeah, need to fix it. It's hard. It is, it's hard because at the same time, like, those small changes and details and listening to all the feedback on the YouTube reviews and all that kind of stuff. like that's it also pays to why a lot of people support the brand right because we we do pay that much attention to you know those like little little little baby things right we share if we

take a quarter inch off of the rise like you know what I mean just because I don't know it's a it's a fine balance and I think that's where finding the direction of where you want to take the company and what you kind of see it to be you know it's very it's important it's a good question yeah because I struggle I struggled mostly I mean you could probably relate to to this a little bit too because I know when you started really going after Alfleet as a brand you stop you stop making as much content yeah yeah because for me like I've noticed that's the hardest thing like as I've been growing and like focused on growing I'm like taste you from your yeah so that's why it's even more so important for me to get the right people in the place to do

the things that like I can't focus on everything because like I can't even sometimes make content because I'm so focused on like the business side of it that even if I'm not like on the phone day. I'm just like my mind is consumed with like problems or things that I have to fix in order to like get to the next level. And it does really affect like the content side of it. So I think just to people out there who are listening like because I know a lot of people will click on this video because they're probably like I want to know how to get sponsored. I want to know how to do this. You know? And I think it's really important for the people listening like it is so essential to build a team as soon as you can. And and now when I say this, I mean because you're going to find

three people right away and maybe one of those persons might stay maybe all three are gone and you like you have to start that process sooner though because that's what I realized I was like a big part of me was like damn I wish I involved people sooner to see if they're the right people you know really good people as yeah that's my advice to people is like as soon as you can afford to hire the best people that you possibly can afford like all of your profits spend that on hiring the best people that you possibly can never remove it from the business like keep those profits the business as long as you possibly can just hire the best people that you can because like one individual one great person can genuinely completely change an entire business yeah for sure and that's

the thing yeah i just like i just wish i did it sooner man because i'm like i try to balance so much shit then i realize like my own ability to produce content that was pushing a lot of this thing forward is like slowing down yeah and it's like i realize like okay i wish i had gotten on that sooner because now it's like you know you just i mean no matter what right it's you're always going to do this balancing act but that's so important but like so with that being said right I'll ask you guys both this what is your opinion on like how are you deciding who are the right people because a lot of people I've had experiences like this where I hired someone who told me oh this is what I do and I'm such a professional at this and he was the one who let me down the worst fucking path that I've ever gone

down like made the worst decisions and I trusted him because he was a great referral from someone else who helped me in another aspect of my business at one point in the past and I I hired him and he fucked me dude like like terribly like order quantities fucked up moving to its fulfillment like a fucked up fulfillment center and I shouldn't like it it was a it was a bad situation we fixed it now at this point everything's good and I'm not trying to place blame and say okay I didn't have a part in this because I did I hired the person right who I trusted so my question is like how do you know genuinely who the right people are if and this is the challenging part if you're learning everything as well so it's like you go oh yeah I'm growing

this business it's growing you go oh that guy you know he put on a good show and he's he acts like he knew all these things things that i don't necessarily know fully but i know enough of but he seems like he knows more and then you go okay that's the guy and then he fucks you know it's like how do you know because you're learning yeah no i think but i think that's always inevitable i think the the other thing that we found is you do have to fail fast and in everything that you do and i feel like everyone is guilty of holding on to individuals for whatever reason for long than they should. And I think again, it's just about that clear, concise, immediate communication to saying that this just doesn't work.

You're documenting things. You have clear expectations and you have to, it can just be like, oh, verbal conversation, oh, let's not do that again, you know. And you got to have to be able to, that's a good, I mean, I don't. You'll always make that mistake. Like we've, we've done it loads when we'll do it again. But because you're right, because I'm not a, you know, a seasoned operational expert so you know I guess the challenges well Ben how do you know how to hire the best operations person that you can I mean what I'll try and do is I'll try and find people in different businesses whether it's in the UK or the US that are really good at that and like try and pick their brains and sometimes even ask them to come into the interview process just to double

check a person we've actually done that recently we hired a new role it's a role that I'm not a massive expert at but I've sort of done because I've had to in the in the role and they came into the interview process and like almost double checked it for me and made sure that the decision that I mean you had someone from another company who was who does that role for another company that you couldn't hire come in and like check on okay yeah or like another CEO of a much much bigger business that's come in and helped and things like that that's been good because that's the other thing as well is whether it's CEO found whatever job you're in it tends to be quite a lonely place and you'll be making lots of like decisions that it's difficult sometimes you to find

other people that can help other than people that have literally been in that situation So something that's really helped me personally, especially as Jim Schultz got bigger, is to communicate with people that have run businesses that are far, far bigger than Jim Schult. Yeah, exactly. Can you name some of them, or is that just like a private thing? I'm like, who?

I'm like, what's their number? Who? Yeah, I can name one of them. So there's a guy called Ajars, who I talk to a lot, who runs like a big, I think it might be the biggest digital agency in the world called AKQA. They're like, again, it's a big, big market agency. They do some incredible ads for big, big people.

Yeah. I can't remember. It's something like three, four, five thousand employees. It's a massive, massive business. And Ajaz is really, really intelligent, and he's massively creative, right? So he's all about the creative output of the business. And for me, it was a case of, like, how do you work with investors? How do you work with, like, in the US? Because, again, being a Brit and then coming over here and opening our offices, it's, this is a completely different place to the UK. Like, employment law is completely different. The culture is very different. And just, you know, asking other people how they've done it, a bit in my situation, from the UK and working in the

US or working in creative industries. That's been really helpful for me. I feel there's only, the only mentor I've ever had was we were speaking with investors for actually Alpha Land, right? Not for for AlphaLeet, but I mean, as Equinoch, Equinox CEO, SoulCycle founder, we were on the phone every single day and she's really just that, with the online business, though, I mean, I feel it's, it's such an understanding. unknown area it's brand new yeah it's like I mean I are still creating it yeah that's exactly I mean every order that every collection that's new every fabric that's new I mean we're placing bets I mean I'm very you know we have data analysts and everything just like

giving our history of you know what's what we think is going to do well but at the end of the day there's you know there's no perfect metric to you know to minimize the waste right right It's very, at the end of the day, you have to, I don't know, it's, there's not a clear map for, you know, for the online space, I feel. Imagine if we all just shared data. Yeah. We're interrupting this podcast. Shout to one of our responses with Raycon now. I'm telling you right now, boys, listen, very, very important.

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employees do you have like different people who like oversee like a specific amount of people like is it for every like a hundred people you have someone who's like overseen yeah so we have we have like a leadership team so we'll have like someone that manages all of like product and branding and then we'll have someone that will manage all of the United States or North America and then our international business and things like that and then supply chain so we'll have like the leadership team who I work directly with literally every single single day. And then obviously there's all the different teams will then sit reporting into

those chiefs. I see. Yeah. So like what would you say you're most involved in as far as like the brand development? So like yeah. So we have we have design. So what we have is um we've got a production facility at our HQ. So we can literally go and make whatever we any gym shop product within reason we can make at our HQ. So we have full production capabilities. So it will be like making For samples, sampling. Yeah, yeah, for sampling. We wouldn't do, like, mass quantities, but we could just make. So if, for example, and this is the real good thing, is around, we have, like, a business that's very, there's a lot of creatives in the business.

So what you want to do is give them the tools and opportunity to be able to build what they want. It was like, I think it was about two or three weeks ago. I just wanted to make, like, a specific type of hoodie. So just had the day and just went downstairs and just spent the whole day making this hoodie. And now what we'll do is we'll put it into mass production and we'll, you know, know, sell it in the next few weeks. So, like, generally product. But then I will be involved in design, creative direction, all these different things.

So when you say product, you'd be more like physical, like the material, the fitting, that part of it. Yeah, yeah. I will be involved in brand. We've got a really good chief of brand, a guy called Noel, who you, you know, you know, well, you met, you know, no. So he's really good. So I feel like, even though brand's probably one of my top passions, right?

And the Jim Sharp brand has been built from day one as like a, you know, a product and a brand. and then business. Like, I feel like Noel, null's really got that down, so I'm quite comfortable with that. So it also varies as well. So maybe,

depending on what the business needs, I might spend more time in a specific area. Like you said at the start, it was very much tech focused because it was like, how do we build a website that's going to do the things that I want. So I sort of jump around.

Yeah. Is there anything that like you really don't like or don't know and you're like, you try to avoid, but you know you should spend more time doing. People. Yeah. People.

He was hard. Like I said, because we had up until 13 months ago, about a year ago, I wasn't CEO. I would do the different jobs. So I brought in a CEO, Steve. So, like, I really managed to learn from him how to manage people because before that I wasn't particularly great at it. Again, because I've just never done it before. So you talk about managing people just be like knowing how to properly communicate.

Yeah, yeah. So, like a real basic example, right, if I want to talk about product direction to a designer, It's going to be a very, very different conversation to if I'm talking to someone that's managing distribution centres and operations and finance because I find from experience that those individuals tend to be wired differently

and you have like big picture thinkers than people that want more detail. So if I'm sat with finance, they'll all data and things like that. They'll want to go down to the most finite piece of detail possible and they'll want to really talk through in a logical way. Whereas if I'm talking about creative direction

then it's a lot more big picture, feeling, emotions, yeah, but how does that product make you feel like the silhouette, the lines? Are you happy with like the look? It's all these different things. And yeah, I think you'll find, I certainly found anyway, that more of the entrepreneurial type thinkers tend to be more like that in my experience. And that's, I think, why that you find that there's a lot of financial issues, operational issues. I mean, listen, when Jim Sharper started, we'd never pay tax before. Again, and you don't get taught these things. Yeah, oh, this is good. But so, So much stuff comes intuitively from a creative and a product standpoint because you live and breathe it every single day.

You don't live and breathe taxes, finances, operations and things like that. It's funny. I'm currently, I'm aware that I need to find a C. In the next few years, I need to find a CEO. Is that what you're going to do? That's what, that's what everything, that's what I feel is what needs to happen in order for me to fully be able to focus on the creative, on product development and brand, right? But I will say, I think the brand, the head of brand, head of market, I think that role, I'm very close to getting that position that nailed in, and then I would really just be on product,

which is interesting because I feel you're, you had the CEO and now you're back to CEO, right? And I'm very interesting finding the CEO to deal with the operational, so to deal with the distribution, the fulfillment, to deal with the expand, right? That's the, those are the conversation to find, those are the finance even. Those are the conversations where I just, I don't tune out or push back or kind of, you know, avoid, but I feel I'm most needed in the product and in the brand, right? Yeah, so I have a question now, like based on, so you were CEO, you were CEO, you went, how to see you went back to CEO.

Yeah, I sort of don't really count being CEO at the start being CEO, because I feel like, you know, being CEO with seven employees doesn't really count as being CEO, but no, I was CEO till, well, again, CEO in inverted commas up until 2015, and I think Steve was 2015, 2016, up until last year, so 2021. How do you decide to be like, okay, this is... Because, like, so for me, my desire for the brand to grow was greater than my desire to be CEO. Again, it's, for me, I don't, I'm not fussed if I'm CEO or chief of product or working

brand or creative. I'm not fussed. I just want to work where I get the most enjoyment and I had the most value to the business. And there was this period in 2015 where it was very obvious that Steve was a better CEO than me. Because he's worked in big brands before. He knows how it works. And he was there to fix so much of the big major issues in the business. And then there's this two-pronged benefit, right?

Because when he came in as the CEO, it then meant I could exclusively spend all my time on brand and product. And all of a sudden, I could fly out to factories and sit on the factory floor and get the product perfect or how I wanted it. And, you know, go to every single event, go to every single brand piece and meet every single athlete. Whereas if I was CEO, I might not have been able to do every single thing that I wanted to. So there was this double benefit. it. But then the other thing on top of that, which really helped me, especially because this was between the age of 23 to 27, 28, it meant that I could then just jump into things like finance and ops and just fail in those areas without consequence. So I could jump in and I could

try things in finance or operations, knowing that Steve as the CEO could come in and help, you know, fix any, basically any messes that I make. And that's how you learn, right? You learn through failure. And like we said earlier, the big risk is when failure is public. and front facing, then that has a big effect on the business, whereas I had the almost the blessing and opportunity to fail in the dark and learn. And I think that's really helped me grow and learn to the point where I felt like I was and Steve felt like I was then able to then go back into the CEO role when he took a step back. Yeah. Do you like it? Yeah, I love it. It's really hard. It's really hard, especially since we've opened up the US office because like I'm traveling to

Colorado every month, whereas before, even though the travel was still a lot, right? Like, I mean, the year that me and my wife first met, I did 52 long haul flights that year. So I basically did a long haul flight every single week for a year. And it was just like long and hard. Like, it was like an average of like just moving all the time. And it was hard. But again, this is the thing, right? Because we're a very evenly distributed business in revenues, right? So we was like in the US all the time. Like if you think even like how often you guys will move around the States. Imagine every time that you go out of state, I'm coming 10, 12 hours, six hours, eight hours, wherever it is. And like we'd work with Shopify, who would be based

up in Canada. We'd be working with people like Facebook and Google, who'd be out in California or Ireland. And like I said, like a lot of Jim Sharpe, most of Jim Sharps customers are in the US. So I'm having to move around a lot. And then we've got Europe, we'd be in Germany, in France, in places like that. Australia, we'd be at the Australia Expo in the Arnold in Melbourne every single year when you when you add it up it quickly adds up if you do 12 events a year that's it that's that's every single month yeah yeah i didn't leave houston for two and a half years during out the alfland build i didn't know wow it didn't didn't not one flight just like a fucking jim hermit just a hermit in my shack man like i love it and um i think just hearing you

kind of say that ben kind of just really makes me realize like the yes i do want to find a because I with the next 10 years I've been on YouTube 10 years now the first decade's done right yeah now for this next decade I've got 10 goals I'm at the list out in January and just and all so many of those goals are putting me back in you know we talked about the business will pull you away it'll all pull you away from that core are you talking about as a content creator on as a content and an owner right okay and owner so a lot of the brand plays we're making and things will be doing I'm going to be forcing myself to be committing to you know Really staying true to the core with, you know, X amount of uploads in the 10-year period, you know, X amount of expansions of gyms, retail, brand, you know, just so many goals that I know I'm not going to be able to physically do if I'm still in, you know, doing a lot of these responsibilities with the CEO position. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think, I mean, I, you, yeah, you finding the help is hard, like we said. But I think we'll go back to what you're talking about this, the failing thing. And I think we should all talk about this a little bit more. Because I,

I just think it's so important for people who are listening to understand that, like, in any success, in all success, failing is probably one of the most important parts. And normally failure is the thing that makes people go like, oh, fuck, like, I'm done. This is it. It gives you that, like, kind of like that failure, that shit lingers. Because I know, and I made all my mistakes with, like, the moving and hiring the guy. I was like, you know, this is it? I'm fucked, man.

You know how you said you kind of fail in the dark? You were able to feel like, I feel like we can't fail in the dark. I can't. motherfuckers like to talk about me dog fuck i can't sorry i just getting personal it's getting personal motherfuckers like to run their mouth for views man it's about failing forward isn't it and i think that that that that's the thing and that's that's the thing and we we talk about this like internally at jimshark jimshark is a story of failure when you so jim shark first started we'd made six or seven websites before that every single one failed miserably we'd like made fitness social

networks all these different things and then when we finally launched the website we sold supplements but we couldn't afford the supplements and then ended up basically the margin on the supplements were so small that we just couldn't create a like a functioning business and then that was when we bought the screen print and the sewing machine and started handmaking the products ourselves so even before jim shark was even a thing we'd fail time and time and time again yeah so i think that's that's the thing and all the best people that i've met are able to fail forward without a it's like uh again we were joking we were talking about this yesterday it's like a like a relentless optimism all the way like through and just constantly having

to fail forward because it's hard because it's not like every time you fail it's like a punch in the face right it hurts and it's hard but to keep going forward with that relentless optimism I think that's what the best people I've met have done yeah I mean it's also what the smartest people or people who become the smartest people like you got to look at it this way right like everything we do in our lives like ultimately you want to build like this massive brand and have this cool impact, but like, I think people fail to realize, like, I don't know, everyone's so caught up, I think specifically nowadays with like social media and like trying to have the most money or the most followers and most everything.

And obviously like selling product and growing a big baron, like those things will come along with it. But the thing that people always like kind of skip and like just want to be at the end, everyone's like, I just want to be at the end and have all the money and have a company set up is like the most important part of life in all of our lives, no matter what, we're doing is like the process. I was about to say like I don't see my I don't have any partners or any equity given out in Alfleet and that there's other businesses and ventures that I do with where the intentions very clearly to get as big as possible right

and Alfleet's not one be in and I feel because it would lose what it kind of is in the sense well this is I felt with the gyms man with when when zoo because I've had dude it's been almost six years since I started zoo and I'm opening up more now right but I got so many offers who I want to open a gym here and Dubai locations will do them all back to back Yeah and I'm like dude I knew exactly what you're saying I knew that that would change the whole

It wouldn't be a culture of the gym It wouldn't it's like I could give it up and be like Yeah I get some money and have these opportunities But then it's like how do I know that that guy in fucking Dubai or Ohio Whoever wants to open the gym is going to treat it the same way that I would treat it now I realize if for me it's like okay I want to open up like three or four Where I could solidify exactly what it should look like what it should feel like what the vibe should be like because I was still sorting all that out as far as like

employees and how it should run and all that stuff like so that it would be like seamless and then it's like okay then I can evolve to that next step as far as like okay now I would franchise this or grow the business more vertically right and I don't know I just I just I think a lot of people get so caught up like I said and like that end thing and forget that like all this part like what's making you a great business person is that you failed a thousand times it's making you a good bit same thing me as well every all the mistakes are if you allow all those mistakes in your life like they there's so much good in them to to for you to grow from and i think people just like i don't know they we're so caught up and taught to look at the last piece and be like that's the only thing i want to have i don't know what the hell i do i'd be if at the end of the road yeah you know imagine you had it all and it's like what story do you tell what like how are you if i just woke up one day and i had it all it's like then i'm sitting there and i'm like okay like that sounds cool but it's not going to be a thing where you're you you have it all and you're like wow i really feel like i did this i and i learned so much and i can

give back now and i could teach and i could show if i just showed up there one day i would just have it and i'd probably like fuck it off it's like if you give someone like tons of money and they didn't have to work for it's like likely they're probably going to fuck it off and then they'll be from you know ground one again ground zero and start all over yeah i think the thing that people got to realize like it is in order to like really grow and to be able to also sustain and have have like longevity is like it's like allowing those fuck us because that's if you're able to learn the smartest people right ever look back and go okay this is I'm not going to allow this to continue to happen and I think there's no right or wrong goal of you know say taking companies

big as you can versus keeping honestly keeping within the size that's more that's almost like a smaller size a smaller scale right but being becoming more efficient yeah right cutting the waste maybe increasing you know being sure you can try to scale up that margin a bit keeping personal like there's nothing wrong with that either right and I think um yeah it's just it's interesting because I feel like there's two like I've never answered to I want to take Alfleet to be the big you know like in a deed I would never I've never thought of that even to this day you know because I guess I just really enjoy being in it you know which is why it's almost a conflict for me to you know it's a it's a conflict every day like where do we

want to take it because I do enjoy I love how the athletes like you know we they're all my best friend it's very very personal yeah and I think uh you know it's obviously like sacrifices You have to let go, you have to let go a bit of a lot, a lot of, you know, a lot of the things that you may feel make the brand, the brand, you know, but, you know, to grow to a certain scale. Yeah, I mean, we're at a, I feel we're at a scale that now that is really, to me, what we're doing in sales is very impressive, how small the team is, right? Yeah. And, but I don't necessarily think that, you know, tripling the staff or quadrupling the staff would really, take the brand to a it wouldn't give the office feel upstairs like a better you know morale or I kind of really like how intimate you know we have things I guess and yeah but it could be

definitely less stressful and more cleaned up and we could you know have more established lines of responsibilities and who reports to who but I don't know I kind of like the small business feel I guess yeah yeah with that business at least yeah as far as uh I guess I'm curious you guys like what would you guys say is like your like the brand message like what do you want your brand to embody do you know what I'm saying so the thing for me right so I when I first got into the gym I was 15 16 and I didn't actually do that well at school and the the thing that irritated me about school right is I'd try really hard at something and then get a terrible grade and then I wouldn't try it something else and I'd get a really good grade so the thing that really actually like like

got me into the gym was the fact that I knew that if I turned up four or five days a week every week in a year I yeah I would have made progress so that was that was my my thing and it was all about like every single day doing that little bit and then as I got older like before at the start it was I want to be I want to be muscular and ripped right I want abs it was like again the aesthetics here that is this generation and then my my goal sort of shifted into I guess more holistic health and I want to be muscular and strong but you know I want to be able to run if I can and all this if I want to and all this sort of stuff and that was the bit where and Jim Shark at its core is all around lifting and that's where it first first started but then it was a bit like there's almost like

not one fitness goal that is superior to the other so my like your goal to build muscle is not more superior than someone else's goal to lose weight for example so that that's what I wanted to do I wanted to give or I want to give people that same feeling that I had when I first went to the gym and got better every day and it like I said my school academic life completely changed when I got into the gym like my physical health completely changed my mental health completely changed. So for us, we talk about what we want to do is sort of unite the conditioning community. And I think we did that yesterday, actually, bringing different members of the community together, whether you're into CrossFit or running or lifting or bodybuilding, whatever it is.

And that's what I want Jim Chart to be. There's sort of like one place where whatever your fitness goal is, you know, you can come in, you can get your apparel, your accessories, whatever it is, you know, to inspire yourself. And for me, it's, I feel that I know, if you go to Outflan, there's a niche group of people that go there, right? And I think that at first the intention was like, okay, if I build three gyms, one's AC and kind of more commercial, more equinox. The second one's going to be more raw vibes, more, you know, wrestling the equipment, whatever.

And that third, more cross-fitting, right? I think what that was, though that may have been the first intention to reach a larger and wider group of, a wider demographic, I think at a certain point, you almost need to embrace. I don't know. I'm really now realizing I want to embrace on the demographic and really like go into like that group, right? And instead, I don't think athlete may not be for everybody and it may not appeal to everybody, but I feel like at a point that's that's got to be okay, you know, and just kind of honing in on, you know, on really like all of our like it's weight training, it's worn, it's intent, it's whatever, like whatever that vibe may be in direction, you may be kind of pushing just like really just like, just like. like accepting and diving in deeper almost. Yeah.

You know, kind of, yeah, just kind of having that, I don't know, if that makes sense. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. My brand, Roggear, came about because it was like a self evolution, right? Like, I started, I don't know if you remember, hopefully, I don't even know, you didn't even think about it, but being figure was the first thing that I sold. And that's what the brand was called. And that's the logo. I had like a few iterations of it involved into what it is today.

And it started basically me just selling stuff that I like, like hats and tank tops. And then like I told you guys earlier, when I would go to these expos and people be like dripped out, like wearing myself the whole time, I was like, and they would tell me these stories about, you know, when you talked about your father, you know, you changed my life. I would hear that messages, like thousands. I mean, I've had a guy come to my gym telling me he was going to like, well, this was like two years after. But on Twitter tell me he's going to kill himself and I'm responding to this guy and he's like, you don't know shit. And then I met him in real life. Like he has a daughter who send me like every year like here's my daughter like she has a father because of you like all these kind of like really deep meaningful interactions that I've had with people over the years and so when I was like okay I want to expand this brand bigger than me I had to really think deeply like why were people supporting me what about me were they supporting and I and I realized the reason why people were buying and supporting any of the things that I was doing was because of my ability to be vulnerable my ability to to share my genuine self and and I and I realized the reason why people were buying and supporting any of the things that I was doing was doing was because of my ability to share my genuine self. And what does that mean also?

In other words, raw. Because I wasn't going to put vulnerable gear, right? That's kind of cheesy. So I was like, okay, that was the evolution of it was I realized the thing, because I was like, I'm not going to go up to athletes and be like, wear B and fit gear and tell people to go buy it. It's like my initials, you know, because I didn't think much of it. I wasn't like, oh, I'm going to make a ton of money doing this.

I was just like, I'm just selling shit that I liked. Like it felt good. It felt like it looked good. And I like to wear it, right? And I started out selling a lot of hats, obviously because I wear a lot of hats. But that's a, that's a different thing. So anyways, people would tell me all this stuff. And I was like, okay, I really want to grow this.

Because obviously, like, I've seen brands like Al Fleet. I've seen Jim Shark. I'm like, I know that I could be in this space and I want to be able to compete in this space, but I can't do it with like my initials. Right. So that's why I was like, okay, why are people really supporting this? And then I'm thinking, if I think about a big goal, like a billion dollar company, I, and I also want to do better at this as a brand.

I want to do better at explaining like this is the real message. And I want to do better at like, Because if my goal is to have that massive company, which it is, right? I want the brand to also speak that language the whole way throughout, right? Meaning encouraging people to be their raw, genuine, vulnerable selves. Because all the success that I have truly in my life is because of my ability to share myself, right? genuinely. Like, you know, all the times I cry, whatever, talk about my life.

And people, like, really appreciate it. And I didn't do that in the first place just because I knew, like, oh, they're going to, like, support me and buy. I just did it because that was who I was. And I realized, oh shit, that's the most valuable thing in the world. Because think about this, imagine you have a friendship or a business relationship or whatever. And if I can't share my like raw, my genuine self with you, if I have a problem with something you say, if I don't say, hey, this is how I feel like, we can't fix that. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

Like that's how you find all success I feel like is in being raw, in being genuine, in like telling your truth. And so that's what, that's how the evolution of my brain came about. And I and I really like when I think about that high number, we were talking about like the goals. I think about like I want to figure out a way to be better at and I'll ask you guys for your advice on this to be better at sharing that message through the clothing to the brand like messaging through the athletes that are involved in the business so what other ways do you guys think you like that that core of your brand is is given to your audience for so for me the learn more dream more be more was something that's our slogan something that we embodied when we're when I first announced the name Alfleet, right? Yeah. The individuals who inspired. Now, that derived from my YouTube channel, right?

That was almost, just like you said, sort of the messaging and the take home was to always, you want to be a sponge, you want to learn from others, you want to be open-minded and never think you're, you know, the know, at all. Number two, you're going to dream big, right? And I think through the, through my channel, through actions and through a lot of the athletes that we invest into and we really bring on and sort of push, you know, we wouldn't bring them on if they didn't have those same, it didn't align with those, you know, messages, right. And I think that just, and then be more, right, to do it, right, just apply

yourself and execute. I think that being very selective with who you're bringing on to the brand and really pushing as a main face, you know, maybe not in affiliate you as a code, who's your, who, when you think Jim Sharper, think Alfleet, think Raw, who are you thinking of, right? And it can't just be one person, right? And for, for me, the two years of being MIA was almost really exciting in a way because I was completely off of social and the company grew like this, right? Which made me feel it was a huge fear I had. If I ever go away, what's going to happen? You know, and, and I fear that. Yeah. Yeah. But it's, it was, yeah, it was, yeah, it was just very, I don't know, yeah. Maybe you got more insight from being behind the scenes.

More insight, yeah, from behind the scenes and also really investing into our women's line. I mean, When on our first women's launch, we sold three sports bras. Bro, literally I made a joke. I go, I'm going to go hand deliver these myself, God damn, right? Like, three bras. And since, you know, since then, we're now, like, a 65% female demographic. What is it, Jim Sharks? Yeah, pretty much the same.

It's like 67 or something. Fuck, yeah, yeah. We're like 100%. And for that, it's like you, for women's clothes specifically, hardest thing to do, right? Hardest thing to do, but how do you do it? You listen to feedback, and you're fully conscious. isn't aware and you're like that sponge right let me let me hear feedback let me know like

what did you not like and you have to take it into consideration and apply it right and you need to do everything you can to make the person putting that garment on feel the best that they can yeah and improve and right or amplify right to whatever that's literally meant to amplify your your self-confident and just give you that little like that moment in the mirror where you're like you all right look pretty fucking good let's go you know a little the little the little yeah the little bit a, not enhancement, but just that little bit of the boost, right? And same with like the aesthetic cut stringers, right? Like you want to, you want to give a little bit of something to make people, even if that little bit of boost gets them in that gym that day, right? Or that outfit,

they feel fresh. Right. So you know, all right, you have a good workout instead of just staying home and not, you know, going, right? Yeah. Those little moments will add up. And I think for that's the, that is the, that's our purpose is right. Yeah. What about you? Yeah. Well, it's similar. It's everything that you see from the front end of the brand, right? That is the reflection of your brand. It's the manifestation of your brand. So, like, again, going back to our roots in lifting, if you look at the people that, I mean,

even two of the guys that were at the event yesterday, David Laid and Ryan Terry, they literally are walking. That was awesome. Like, incredibly cool guys, incredibly humble. They'll always have time for people. But then, like, experts in their craft with incredible physique. I mean, Ryan's at the Olympia in the next few months.

Like, these are guys that are at the top of their game, but they're not arrogant, you know, they're open-minded about what other people's fitness goals are. They want to help support people. So it is every, everything on the front end, whether it's the product, whether it's a post on social, whether it's an individual. That's a reflection of the brand,

and I think that's really important to note because I think we've all been in a situation where you could probably work with an individual or something or you could do something to drive growth if you wanted, but if it's not truly, like, to your values and these individuals don't reflect your brand in the right way. It's only a short-term game and that's what you need to

avoid. Yeah. The David's a guy, you know if David has a line he's going to be there. It doesn't matter if it's hour five and a half. Same for you. And I think it's easy to come and pay some one X amount just just kind of maybe show up or whatever and that may be a quick, you know, a nice play but

you have to have that foundation of really core people that you know are in it for the right reason. It comes down to when you're scouted, that engagement. Is this person being is are they genuine are they appreciative are they you know really someone that would represent what you want to push in the bigger picture because 10 years from now they may be the next huge thing and you're taking the back seat and and that is the goal right the goal is to make it make the brand not rely on you yeah that's my that's exactly the goal

and that's exactly what i'd like to achieve is and i think every every entrepreneur founder's goal should be to create a brand that could exist if you wanted it to without you in it 100% That would be the coolest thing ever. Imagine like when you're 60 years old, being able to just take a step back and spend time with your family or whatever, just knowing that you'd created this thing that can exist on its own and grow in the way that you want it to grow, even without you there. And then it's more of a choice, right? It really is a passion project at that point. And that's where the two years where I was seeing that growth there gave me like the, all right,

I feel like I'm in a really good spot to kind of come back to my career. Like next year, I'm really going back into that front mode because I enjoy it. more than anything, right? I really enjoy being, you know, that's what got me and everything I've got. And I just want to get back to it. Do you guys ever, do you guys ever make apparel or like, do you ever make any sort of like garments that are, that are like more meaningful than others? Like not in the sense of like a better quality product or like a design or something

that is like specifically like, I don't know, like some sort of value driven. In what sense? Like, for example, like the, my logo, right? It became it came about because I had a conversation with the guy was helped me create it for it was originally it was just like I said it was like being figure and it just said like the words right and when I went to create the new logo I was I was like posed with a bunch of questions and the guy was like well what are the things that are like most important to you. Right. So I wanted to find a way to like put the things that I thought as far as personal development for like for me that I was like learning at this point of my life into like a logo. Right. Yeah. So there's four things that I've. think are really important in personal development. And first one is mind, right? So the idea of like encouraging someone to be better, try to learn more, to grow mentally, to challenge themselves, like to do something out of like their norms so that they can grow, right, mentally. And then the other one's physical. Obviously this is like you can challenge yourself, try something new.

It's take up a new hobby, something that is more like keeping you active and like in all rights in that. Yeah. You know, like if I was like, oh, if I'm a bodybuilder, I was like, damn, cardio sucks I want to be better at this like try something different and like should really push yourself physically right to try to get to that next level whatever the goal is whatever the activity is and then there's two that are a little bit more like um I guess not theoretical but a little bit more I guess we'll call it mystical but there's two things that I think are really important in personal development and the the last two are spirit and soul and I'll explain them so spirit is like your connection with everyone else right you know you walk into a room and you're like

you're like uh you come in and you know people get the general sense of like oh this this person like brightened up the room right or that person like it came in it's like kind of darkened up the room you're like oh is everything okay so the idea of like trying to be trying to improve that sense of yourself like being self-aware like knowing how people receive you you know what I'm saying and how you connect with people right and then the last part is is your your soul and to me that's your greater connection to yourself and like your true purpose and like diving down that part of your life and figuring out like why I'm really here what's really important to me and being able to connect with people on like not necessarily always like minded levels but being

able to like share that part of yourself in a genuine sense so all the stuff that I think about like when I'm creating stuff I want it to feel I mean some stuff it has some yeah some some some at the end of the day clothes are closed yeah yeah yeah some stuff I make is just it's just because I think it looks cool yeah but I try I really want to try to like push that that narrative of that genuine self, the being able to be vulnerable in raw, and like these four things that I think are important for self development. And that's kind of what stands behind the brand. And I was just curious if you guys ever made items or things that like,

you were like, okay, this like this means a little bit, just a little bit more to me. Not that the other things aren't good. You know, have you ever made like a project? You're like, this one's a little more specific. Mine's called Odilia. That's my, that's the next brand. Yeah, yeah.

That's my mom's middle name. and it's every single design is tied to in some way my mom right like things that from her past are things that I've learned from her you know moments or memories or things like that where every graphic T's got it's literally a hand-drawn story of you know it's a lot a lot of in breast cancer where every single sale is going to go you know to that and it's that brand is something that's more of like the passion project right which is coming soon but for outfleet I think that the initial thought of the brand is where I would say most of that thought went into there. How can we, the three, the three pillars, right? The, and kind of playing off that

three, you know, in creating the overall messaging, but I feel like product to product, I wouldn't say, I mean, there's, you know, things that you'll kind of tie back to, oh, I designed this in that office, so here's a coordinate to that or like these little thing, but I don't think that any product is, I would just say, no, I don't think so for me. I just love the product that I make, to be honest. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, I'm properly like that, a bit of like a, you know, like a magpie chase and like a shiny thing.

If I've got like a beam up on it over one particular, like, product, then I'll obsess over that product for a bit and then move on to the next thing. So that'll be like the most important thing in the world for me for about five days. And then when it's finished, then I'll run off and go on. It is so hard to manage, like, to decide where and how long you need to put time into certain things. It's like that is the hardest. I mean, there's so many other projects.

and I'm sure there's different things that are always happening. Do I spend 10 minutes on this? Do I allow myself to go a little deeper? Do I spend 30 minutes? It's always a choice, isn't it? I'd imagine you can spend every second on product if you wanted to or every single second on finance if you want into or operations. You could do, like you just physically don't have the time.

And then things would, you know, at Alflane would go crazy. So it's almost like, I feel like it's a balancing act, right? Yeah. And I always, every single day, I write down my big three, right? The three things I need, and it could be literally a checkoff task, like getting the YouTube video uploaded. And if that's a big three at the time, it is, right? For the overall value of everything combined,

it's like to be able to filter into what you need to be putting your time into, you know, that's the hardest part every single day. And I guess for me explaining that to like my assistant, you know, it's almost like, man, if I didn't really break that down, there's no way you should be able to kind of facilitate all those different things, right? because it's almost an instinctual feel, right? Yeah. There's no way to measure it, really.

Yeah, that's the thing. Sometimes you can give, you can give direction. I shouldn't have spent three weeks looking at damn tile for the restrooms at Alflam. I'll tell you I shouldn't have, but I did, you know. But, yeah, it's just a learning process, I guess. It's tough. It's tough. And like we said, like, we're talking about, like, getting the right people, finding the right people.

It's, you know, it's always hard when it's something in here and you're, you explain it or you want it done a certain way. And then someone else's perspective just kind of takes it a different direction. Yeah. Um, but I guess I want to, I want to finish with something about like long term success. What do you think it requires, um, of a business owner or, uh, in, I guess in a brand development sense in order to be like, like constantly evolving, you know, because that's the thing with social that's so important.

It's like everything's moving, right? Like if we're not on top of like, whether it be like a trend or like what's hot or what's coming or what's next, it's like social. in general with content everything it's like if you're not constantly posting if you're not constantly making content you kind of get left behind right so from a brand standpoint what do you think are the most important things to either look for think of or like i guess put your energy to that is obviously finite um to continue to succeed and to to have that growth on on social specifically or in business in general uh let's do social specifically yeah well i feel like with social the the sort of easy get out of

jail free card is always just be an early adopter on whatever's out right and it could be as as simple as when you know Instagram bring out reels you know just get on it and like adopt that that that's your your simple thing generally I think it's this weird balance of especially for us because we have been you know 10 years now it's a long long time how do you expand the business and you know constantly appeal to new individuals or new people in new groups whilst also protecting the core, that lifting core, that probably, so some of our earliest customers that have been buying from us for 10 years,

just want a stringer and some taper bottoms. Like they don't care about a lot of the other stuff that we make. So it's that balance of trying new things, every single day try something new, but don't almost do too much newness to alienate this core. Yeah, I mean, I was going to say, like, just being able to listen to feedback and be sure, like, you, for me, it's really knowing what,

the target demographic isn't just paying attention and honestly like opening the gym and having the demographic in front of my eyes it's incredible like yeah new perspective complete i i said every outfit i'm okay got it why are they wearing that over this why are they wearing that over now fleet short right and it just make it really opens your eyes to what people are genuinely in our demographic way in our space wearing yeah all right like like you see i'm literally you see raw you see gym shark you see young lady you see out you see you see you see a few like navigation you see buff bunny right you see these brands but then you don't see much loo you may not see much you know there's certain you really hone in on it

and it's been really really nice to be able to see that so I think just I guess just it goes back to listening and being observant and just knowing and asking hey what do you like yeah yeah I talk I realize talking a lot to the athletes themselves yeah as influencers they make me collages every month I'm like yeah like they're fucking they're on it I mean I mean, especially the younger ones, the ones like in the early 20s coming up, making content, like really. The women? Yes. I don't know what they want, man.

Well, yeah, that's the toughest one. I mean, that's what we're kind of moving into more of. And it's like, that's one of the toughest things because I was going to say earlier when you were talking about like listening to feedback. Women are. Got to learn about the gussets right there. Yeah. I feel like. And you just don't have an opinion, right?

I don't know. Yeah. I feel like there's so many more like things that need to be changed. You'll never make a perfect legging. It won't be. Yeah, it's like, that girl's good for her, but not good for her, great for her, terrible for her. The same legging is like, it's like 10 different. You should see me on feet when the girls are trying them on and I'm like, okay, what do you think?

I need, I need, what does this make you, it just has like 20 million questions, right? But, and you're able to get those different opinions and you need to be sure you're not just doing one body, right? Because it's, and it's, it's, it's, it's impossible to make the perfect piece. It is. So you can't. Yeah, that's the, the, the female thing is a thing I'm like, fuck. I'm most interested in because that's like newest to us it's a hardest one yeah what's the what do you think the most important thing is in that is it like he's saying yeah yeah it has to be

listing I think that's the bit where like all my opinion is just completely downrated because I just I'm not a female and I don't so clearly my opinion isn't as important as others but the I think where I do have an opinion is again it's about what's what's the core reason behind making this product we're not going to make like a fat like a fashion leggings it's probably a bad example Right. We still, it's still got to fit in with a gym shot core. And I'm going to explain why we're trying to build this product. But aside from that fit, feel, material, all these different things. And you just have to listen. Yeah. Yeah, that one's fully listening. Like you said, I'm not a fucking woman. I can't be like, this is great. Yeah. I think of what I think might look good on, but it's like that's it's. It's very, I don't even think. I'm like, I just ask a lot of questions. Asking a lot of questions is, I mean, I think the to the people that are going to be, you know, wearing the products, athletes, the, you know, the people that are consistently testing your product. I couldn't imagine having different fit models like every month or something. Like that wouldn't work.

That would be hard. Yeah. In a way. It's like I have the people that try it on and then they have the athlete's opinions. Yeah. Are there anything else? Is there anything else you guys want to talk about specifically or you want to address or any other questions for me? No, I think it's cool.

I think I think I think it's just so cool that I mean, we've met body power probably 2016. And then we met, I think 20, 13. I think it's cool that like, again, we were at the event yesterday. It's like, it's amazing to see you guys both doing, like, being so successful. And I think it's cool that we can all just be together and have open conversations like this and, you know, put the industry in the fitness community on a pedestal. And I think that's what I really like. And I like to see people succeed. Obviously, I want Jim Chart to succeed and be everything that I want it to be. There's enough space for everything. The world is so big. We're little. small fries you know what I mean if you added up all of our companies together you probably wouldn't even be 1% of the size of you know like a Nike or someone like that

you know what I mean so you're right there's so much space I think it's so cool that everyone's doing you know similar space different things different angles and I think that's just really cool and everybody's growing so you're saying we band together and we take out Nike no they're coming boom

stop on our shit oh fuck you can't take them out dude I'm gonna say that you know some of the best years of my life were the years with Jim Shark man like really truly the best years of my life a hundred percent and I can that group that time frame the 20 what's 2012 to 2015 2016 like those are were eye-opening years for me that I mean just showed me what what could be right and just the you know a next level of thinking and just opening up so many that that open every door that's you know that was cool for me as well because I know like obviously you'd travel to Europe and

you've not traveled to Europe before right and And even for me, I'd not been to Cologne in Germany in places like that and even like Melbourne. Like you go to places that you just never go to and you realize that just how huge they are. The FIvo Expo in Germany had a quarter of a million people go into it. Oh yeah. That fucking Expo is massive.

And I think, I don't know if this is a thing in the US, but again, now having spent so much more time in the US, you meet so many people that haven't been to Europe or been to Australia or some who haven't even left the United States and like to see the world and have the opportunity to travel and meet so many different people. people with different backgrounds. I think it makes you more tolerant of people's viewpoints, more open-minded, but it makes you realize just how huge the world is, the market

is, how many people there are that are interested in what we do. And I think that's really cool. Yeah. I mean, dude, this space in general, like the fitness industry, it just keeps on social, just keeps doing this. It's massive. Yeah. And so slow down. It's like, but it's crazy because I remember we're talking, I was talking with Natalie before the podcast, like at one point on social, even though it's such a niche thing, it was still on Instagram and like on, on, on social, it was one of the biggest industries, like very early on. And then now it's like, obviously all the other industries

come in and blend in, but now it's like, it just is growing at such a crazy rate, like it's such a massive rate. I wonder if there's gonna be a new platform soon. I'm always curious about that. I did the be real thing for a few days. Man, I just don't keep my phone on me. I was like, damn, I missed four days in a row.

I'm the same, I downloaded it be real, but I don't know if it was me getting old or what, but I just couldn't. On, I got day one, on day two, I didn't realize you had to, like, make a comment. When the, when the, yeah, when the notification comes up, yeah. You're going to make a comment? Well, you have two minutes to do it.

You know, you know, you know, two minutes to take a photo. Yeah, I'm like, what if I don't check my phone? Yeah. No, they alert you. Well, yeah, I don't have my phone on me. Yeah, that's what I mean? Like, you're going to do a late, be real. No, but then you lose.

You lose. What do you lose? It's a game? I thought you just posted shit. It's supposed to be like every two minutes. Oh, shit. And everyone's done that thing, you take your first picture. and then I didn't realize the front camera's on

when I first down on, oh God, that's so sad. I'm just like. I'm not going to, I don't have, I haven't been on TikTok and for personally. Really? No, TikTok is like I just decided. I mean, we spoke about this yesterday a bit, right?

Like I control the shit out of my social media usage, which is crazy to say because Jim Shuck is so social, but I want to be really purposeful. When I'm spending time on there, whether it's Instagram or YouTube or whatever, I want to make sure I'm consuming the right content for me, for the business or whatever. I don't want to be like,

mindlessly i've chosen to not do ticot for personally i'm just like i there's too much already i'm i'm i'll be in instagram's my last one right there the reels are the last is the last i have no life i'm just fucking on this bitch all day because it's how i started that's how it's social it was just like every day i'm not saying it's a good thing yeah this is like pretty toxic but uh but i guess it can help with like pattern recognition if you're constantly on it and you're absorbing all this content you know what works what doesn't work with like you know it definitely helps. It definitely helps with creativity. Yeah. If you're

focused on it. I'm just mindlessly going through it. Yeah. It helps with like trending topics. So to talk obviously for me too I use a lot of social because like even just the podcast setting speaking like understanding like things that are kind of trending. Yeah. To talk about that. I don't know ever. That's why like one of the main reasons is like I'll be on Twitter all day, TikTok all day. But it's because

I'm I'm not just trying to like look at random shit. I'm trying to it's more about communication and talking about what's current. And I think that's important just as a creator. So that's why I'm on it mostly. But for as far as like for the brand, uh, I guess I can get some sort of inspiration from other brands. You see other stuff that's made. You're like, oh, that's a really cool angle. I could try it like this. Like you there's a lot of that for sure as well. Yeah. Um, yeah. Oh, let's do it. Okay. So, uh, I haven't done this for like, I apologize

everyone listening by the way. I haven't done this for like three episodes. But at the end of every episode, we do audience questions. So you guys, if you want to send an email, uh, you can send it out is an Astrodotalk at gmail.com. Correct. And if you want to shoot us, a DM, it's raw talk on Instagram. It's just, yeah, exactly raw talk at raw talk. But yeah, you got some of those ready? Yes. Okay, so we'll go. We'll go some. And you guys, we'll just answer them all. Uh-huh. There's like three questions. So this person says, what's up, Bradley? I just want to start off by saying how much I appreciate you and everything you do. All of your content has helped myself get through some tough times. So with that being said,

how do you take these tough times and turn them into motivation or into positive ones? I feel like I'll let these bad days, weeks or situations get to me and it kills my mood or enthusiasm so how do you overcome that okay I'll start so two things time and perspective all all negative things that happened to us in our life right away you're like fuck and and everyone is so uniquely different to this response how long it takes someone to go from fuck this sucks my life's bad whatever's happening is terrible I lost a girlfriend I lost a family member like I broke I got a heartbreak whatever it is and you go it's just terrible right the thing you have to realize is like

that part of it is normal, it's natural, you should go through it, you should feel a heartache, you should be sad, you should be like, this is fucked up, and allow that to happen. I think a lot of people, they want to, they want to be like, I want to bounce back as soon as possible and like not let this be a thing. And I think it's essential for you to feel that. And I, and what happens is a lot of people will, something will happen very bad to them in their life. And they'll, they'll just be like, it'll hurt and then they'll try to push it down. And the reason why that's a problem is because that's something that festeres over time and it continues to affect you over time. It continues to affect your work, the people you interact with. So feel that

pain. Don't be shy to that pain because the pain is the thing that's ultimately going to teach you like kind of like the direction to move it in the future or how to make, you know, maybe not the same mistakes or how to appreciate someone more that maybe you didn't necessarily appreciate someone that, you know, you feel like or you did lose. And it's going to allow you to get way more perspective. So the two things, those two things like I said, the time and perspective are related to that. So you have to allow yourself to feel it. You have to allow yourself. You have to allow yourself to feel sad talk to someone don't be afraid of sharing it and then and then understanding that like there's a moment that you you'll realize maybe a year from now from the thing that's happening

that like there's actually a really good learning point in that negative in that pain in that hardship and it's just recognizing that and understanding that because a lot of people like I said they get caught up and they push it down and and that's going to put you just in a in a circle and you're going to go through another thing you're going to push it down you're going to stay in that circle and it's not going to allow you to go in the direction that you actually want to go into. So, yeah, I talk a lot, but go ahead and give your guys this input on that. I think that was for Bradley, right? That's for all of us.

Yeah, just your perspective on that. I mean, listen, I'm going to struggle. You're funny, dude. I forgot the question. I'm not going to lie. Go, give him the question again. So the question was basically saying, what do you do to get out of, like, bad times and switch it to positive to stay motivated and change your mood for more like bad.

things are happening to you or situations and flipping it to positive yeah i think i think bradley nailed it right is so much of this is about perspective and it really depends on the problem i mean you can't always turn it negative into a positive yeah it's sometimes it's tough and i think i mean this is top of mind for me at the moment we've just unfortunately lost our queen back in the uk but there was there was a thing that she said i think during covid where she said uh grief is the price we pay for love and i think it's quite cool just to think about things like that like you can't have the positive without the negative. You can't have, no one has a life that is permanently good times, right? There's always difficulties. You're always going to lose people. There's always

going to be hardships. And for me, I think, again, Bradley nailed it. So much of it is about perspective. And reminding yourself what you still have to be grateful for, right? There's always things to still be grateful for that you need to, you know, be your best self for. And allow yourself the time, but you have to keep moving forward at the end of the day. Time doesn't stop. I feel like that's, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So the next question is it says my question is what's the difference between pushing yourself and over training or overworking yourself in the gym and in just life in general the difference between pushing yourself and overdoing it yeah uh sleep and food in both those senses I think

I think like we talk about overdoing something like every time I can recognize in my life when I really overdid something was my like when I was 18 and I did so much physical activity And I ate so little because I wasn't understanding enough of like how much sleep I needed, how much food I needed, the kind of calories I needed. And I was so like OCD kind of crazy about training and working out. I actually this, I've talked about this before, but I was actually 18 and I made my dick stop working straight up. Yeah. I got in my head about that once in a long story. Well, that happened.

That's common, but that's common. I'm talking about like literally like, like I'm training so much that I'm like it was nonstop. And I was like OCD. So exhausted. No, like OCD. like bad like I would eat something and be like I got to do 100 pushups like anything if I if it's like a fucking this is not a good thing I'm not saying this is good guys I'd eat like a banana I'd be like I'm doing curls in my fucking dorm room because I had like a little curl bar like I had a

problem a real problem and I wasn't sleeping well because like my body's pretty much fucking eating it I'm waking up like every 20 minutes pee and so I've had a real experience with like a severe like I don't know if it's like an OCD type behavior of like body dysmorphia not allowing myself to like fully rest and recover and eat because i also thought like okay i got to eat a certain way so i'm eating like fucking like no fat cottage cheese no fat period like no oil on like chicken uh fucking spinach blueberries and oatmeal that like that was what i was eating and i so it wasn't any fat i was overdoing training so the reason why that was my answer is because like i realized really quickly that like i was basically starving myself and overdoing everything

uh and we're talking about business or in like training it's gonna come down to like obviously rest and recovery in relationship to food so if you're not doing enough of those things even as a business person like if I'm not eating enough food like if I'm just constantly running off of caffeine or something to keep me going like I'm gonna be less creative less efficient over time I can tell as soon as I'm as soon as I need to go home I can tell I'm like I'm like this did not make sense my I need to go this is it and I'm capping yeah do you have any do you have any no I think the the thing that I really found and again this actually this came from from Gary and he spoke about

like during your 20s, find out how hard you can work. Like I push, similar to you, push myself to the absolute limit to the point where like to you, like I'm speaking in incoherent sentences because I'm working myself to the bone. I don't remember weekends. Yeah. They're blurs.

Yeah. But you have to do it at one point. Yeah, you have to do that. 100%. I agree. And that was it. But then for me, then you realize how hard you can push

and how hard you can't and how hard you should push. And then there's periods where, you know, it's particularly tough and particularly busy in periods where it isn't so yeah i had uh i had jacob my videographer see that guy right there i had him working in miami once when we went and we were filming like four or five videos a week and this guy was like getting zero sleep and he was doing every single video editing everything and i remember i told him exactly what you just said yeah i was like i was like this is important because like if you can do this if you can do it it's like your threshold yeah and then because

it's not always going to be that way that's insane you can't sustain that long term but like i think it is really important to like see really how far you could push yourself obviously physically but also like mentally workload so then you know that like your ability to constantly deal with more like when things come is it's even it's even easier yeah so yeah don't be afraid to go crazy especially like fuck when you're young like you should be going fucking nuts man yeah i just feel like you should know you shouldn't be like oh i'm just going to like make play it easy i'm never going to go there again but i've been i love going there but you know that you could if you need if i needed to 100% yeah It's probably going to kill me soon, but it's going to die young for sure.

It's all good. Whatever. It's lit. Give us the last one. Okay. So this one is saying, is there a dream job that you guys ever wanted to do but never did? So for example, like a dream job that you know you would never do, like being an astronaut or being like a musician or something like that. Like was there a job?

What would it be? You kind of do. No one did, Al-Faland. Architect, yeah, I loved it. I did the whole floor plan. But you kind of do that. Yeah, I wanted to be a music, I'd play guitar, I'd never got, I was that's good, you know, but no, it's, I don't know. I feel like I would have been a career criminal or something, man.

That's a job, okay? No, they're talking about like a job, like, first example. Oh, yeah, that's right, that's right. Okay, uh, an astronaut. No, honestly, because I think I'd just like to go to space. See, I'm the polar opposite there. I always say that. I was like, Bezos could pay me, whatever he wants. I am not going to just, I'm really happy on earth.

You have 89% chance. You may die. Yeah. I'll die on earth. I'm fine. Fuck. Yeah. You don't even like,

not at all. There's enough movies, bro. Me and my friends have conversations about this and they're like, wouldn't you want to look back on the earth? I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm quite happy. I mean,

I'm scared of it, but it's like part of me is like, I like to sweat. You know, I like, you go to space. I'm sweating already, bro. I'm good. Oh, that's dope.

Is that it? That's it. Awesome. I appreciate you guys coming, man. You guys are fucking both inspirations. Thank you. And both you've done amazing fucking things. It's been a pleasure, like legit having this conversation.

But, I mean, just even over the last fucking 10 years, a social media game, like, I've definitely gotten a lot of inspiration from both you guys as far as like wanting to be better, wanting to work harder, wanting to, you know, grow the business, grow the brand, expand. And I just want to say thank you personally for being here and having this conversation with me, for real. Likewise. And absolutely. And thank you for having us. Yeah. It's been great. This is dope.

like i'd like i i think there's a lot of good in here and uh like i like i said man i i just wish you guys nothing but the best and i hope that we can continue 10 more years we'll be old as shit we'll be another one right 43 dude fuck ben's got two kids on two boys twins on the way oh yeah i'm gonna be going gray faster this right next next that's dope that's what i want next yeah oh kids man you're not thinking about kids huh let's bye that's great I'm sweating. Yeah, I'm legit sweating.

Wow, that's good. You sweating? I'm sweating. I'm sweating. It's a 100% cotton teas, yo. Fuck. Subscribe. Let's go, baby.