RAWTALK - Ron Artest Untold truth about the palace fight, What Kobe Bryant told him, playing Lebron James @ 16

Episode Date: June 18, 2024

0:00 Intro 0:20 podcasting for ron 1:23 why are people getting away with traveling way more now 2:15 the NBA is soft now compared to when Ron played 5:22 the NBA overall and fans perspective 6:54 if ron can make the rules different what would he do? 9:32 lebron and team jumping 10:37 Rons view of lebron 12:13 MJ, Kobe, Lebron. who's the best? 13:27 the scrimmage when lebron was 16 and scored on ron 14:51 Ron speaking on Kobe as a player 16:14 rons career and him as a player 18:06 rons fight at the pallace 22:49 what a $50 bet costed ron and how it impacted his career 24:35 the race factor even it todays world and why people hate each other 27:00 the internet wants people to be divided 28:50 what rons chilhood was like 29:37 how much is ron on social media? 30:30 how ron found basketball 35:48 ron on the Women’s Basketball 41:37 why did ron change his name to meta world peace? 43:37 ron on religion’s and what he supports 45:45 how do we get back to being special 47:33 ron is making a platform 49:08 the new wave of podcast  52:07 what ron did after retirement to continue to make money 55:53 what is ron most passionate about now? 59:47 school for Ron after retirement than we has younger 1:02:00 the hardest thing for ron in basketball 1:02:54 a player that stood out to ron for pushing him and helping his game 1:06:30 conversations with kobe bryant 1:08:11 will basketball come back to the golden era when meta was playing 1:12:32 superstars today 1:14:33 any involvements in the nba meta wants to be apart of  1:15:35 things meta does that no one knows or unexpected  1:17:03 ron III joins the show 1:17:41 how much has meta added to his sons game in basketball 1:18:06 meta as a father to his son ron III 1:19:17 the pressure of playing basketball? 1:20:59 how much does lifitng effect playing basketball? 1:23:10 ron III going to the league 1:24:03 is there an age thats too old to get into the league?

Do you do a lot of podcasts or what? Off and on since 2008. My first one was with Kobe. I interviewed Kobe, 2008, and then got back into a 2012, no, 14. They were doing, yeah, two podcasts in 2008? Yeah, I was doing it early. Damn, you spent one of the first ones. I was probably first athlete, for sure.

Yeah. To do your own independent podcast? Yeah. Yeah, I got a series of podcasts. Wait, so you had a podcast in 2008? I had one that I was doing Fox. Then I wanted to interview athletes, but it was ahead of the time. Like, they didn't really understand it.

Yeah. So now everybody's doing it. It's crazy. It's, it is such, it's becoming so much more popular now. Like. It just makes sense. Yeah. Nobody wanted to hear like, you know, all this random people that don't know much about the area

they're in. Just commentators who aren't really like from there. Well, you know, when you're talking about entertainment, sports, you know, commentaries about the entertainment factor. So sometimes. It has nothing to do with the game. Yeah. Right now, even a lot of the fans are smart,

so even right now it's a lot of traveling and basketball. I'm not sure if you're watching, but it's a lot of traveling. And the fans are kind of disgusted with that, right? So sometimes they want to hear from a player's perspective, whereas the commentary, like, for example, that push, I don't know if you watched the finals the other night, but the guy got pushed in the back. Why do you think people get away with traveling way more now?

Well, I think it's just a thing where... I feel like it's the refs are watching the players, Like, because they want to watch the player, like, as a superstar, you know? Well, back in the days, that was a travel. Travel is a travel. Yeah. Right now, it's not necessarily a travel. So it's hard to, it's hard to say, oh, so much travel.

I don't know what you understand. But the fans can see it. The fans are like, I think you're going to see a change the game's going to change in a couple of years, I think. Like, in what regards, that sort of stuff? Fundamentals are going to get better. It's getting better already. Yeah. Why do you think people are, it seems like,

the NBA is so much softer now than when you played it's just the rules it's not the it's not the actual players it's more the rules so it's not the question like was it the is it the actual game or is it the there's not the players it's the rules yeah if you give the players leeway if they can do this and get away with it then they'll do that and get away with it yeah right

like the floppy shit got crazy where it's like we're like you're constantly that's a refting that's just seeing it if I'm riffing the game when I see somebody flop I'm not gonna call it you know yeah yeah Whereas you might call it because I think the game in the American sports is aggressive. Like Americans typically, for years we've been aggressive. Yeah.

Right. So then when you're trying to make it a global game, when you're coming into this dome of America, you've got to bring your A game. Yeah. But now you don't have to bring your A physical game. You can just bring your finesse game now in America. Play the little rules. We made it cool.

And we're playing nice now. Yes. I don't like it. You're playing nice. Like when you played, it was like, it was different. I just felt like it was way more aggressive. Like overall, like it seems like people overall, or players overall were just more like about it.

At times, it was a little too much at times, honestly. But like the over-the-top, you know, swinging and punching somebody in the face, that's a little too much. But, you know, the dislodging somebody or keeping somebody from cutting or having that physical kind, this is a human body.

Yeah. symmetry is incredible, you know, and people want to see, you know, how God made you versus how he made someone else female or male. So from that perspective, the grace part is great, but then also the physical part is great. Everybody got different attributes. So if you're Alan Iverson, or you're going to use your speed and that's going to look incredible. Yeah. If you shack, you're going to use your strength and that's going to just look incredible. Right now, what they're doing is making it more. about the fluent part of the game and taking away the big muscular 6-10 power forward.

Like the technicalities of like the reffing and the sort of like what you can or can't do. Yeah, what you can and can do is lending itself to not seeing as many standard four, which is 610. 6.9 and 611 is like a standard 4, maybe 6.8 and a half. Yeah. Then 6.10 and a half to 7, you know, whatever, 7 to 1 or 72. that's your center and now you don't see that no more now it's like 6-7 center

yeah do you think it'll go back I think at some point it's gonna go back because even people talk about the ratings it's a better game now you know these are just people coming up with rules sitting at a round table with other decision makers pretty much kissing butt to stay in the loop

so now you're talking about oh let's change the rules to make it more of a global game predictive analytics when there's nothing to predict. You can't predict how a fan is going to feel. Yeah. You could try. But now when you look at the ratings,

which I'm a big NBA fan, I'm a supporter of the NBA, and I'm always like, I'm a big-time support of the NBA, but when you look at the ratings, now with this championship game versus the one with Michael Jordan play, the highest ever viewed game,

so how does that justify that this game is better and what the fans want to see? Well, I don't think it does. I think now the salaries are going up. That's because AI, automation, digital, more consumer, direct-to-consumer experiences. So just by default, the money is going to go up and the game is going to grow from a financial perspective. You know, if you had this same technology when Michael Jordan was there,

direct-to-consumer experiences, yeah. This is incredible. Now you're talking about, you know, so he still would have been breaking record. back then, and he's breaking records now. So I think sometimes we try to predict or try to control how a human is going to think versus just let the game flow.

You don't have to change much. Yeah, the game was going to grow, but we still are on this planet. We was here in the 90s, and we saw what we liked. And then as a fan, we made our children become fans. It's not, you know,

the future didn't make our children become fans. It was us or my parents that was like, watch this game you see this game and then we became fans of that style so now we're just trying to totally change it doesn't make sense what would you how would you do it differently like if you were if you could make the rules different what would you do i think like what i would do is um definitely you know keep it as it was maybe a couple of little tweaks here and there um the all-star game i know a lot of people don't want to play or they like why but

when you look at the All-Star game and the fans is like, wow, this is not like it was in the 90s or even 2000. Right, when Jordan had his last game against Kobe, RIPC Kobe. So for that perspective, it's not up to the players to say,

you know, why do I have to play? It's not your choice. Yeah. You got to play. I think that's the excitement of it. It's the excitement 100%. Like people locked out. Look at all the players

that locked out in that, and even in 2011 and whenever the other time was. Now, they're forgetting that some of the players that locked out, you don't know their names. They actually lost real money. They lost real money. Delante West lost real money. Antoine Walker, he lost real money.

They're looking at it like, oh, I'm here, and we're the reason why money's going up. No, it's not. It's because of the sacrifices that was made, And now we're fans and we want to see you play in the All-Star game. Yeah, when you retire, year one, and they'll see. And when you talk about playing, you mean, like, actually play hard, not just fuck around.

Yeah, play to win. Like, I'm not saying, go hack somebody, but good grief, you know, play defense. Nobody gets the open shot, lock him up. If he is not ready to play in this game, then he's not ready. When we played, they're lucky I wasn't playing in Austin. Because when I played, I was going in.

Yeah. And Kobe was going in. So if Kobe's your so-called favorite player, but then you don't have to play hard, or if you're being sponsored by Michael Jordan and you respect Michael Jordan that much, it's, you know, I get it because the money is different. So these are actual chairman and corporations on the court. This is not like it was when you were a player on the court. These are actual chairman on the court now.

So I get that piece. You got a lot to think about. but at some point in time as a fan we want to watch the game I want to sit there and watch the All-Star game you know and be like man I should have did that I could have did that but I'm actually enjoying the game

now I don't want to be at the point where I leave in the arena early because this is just disgusting yeah you know what is it? Yeah yeah I get it is there anything as far as your career goes that you wish you would have done obviously everyone's going to say win more but like you know a lot of people like go towards stats

or they you know obviously everyone wants to ring of course. But like if that's not like a viable thing because of the team and this whole like team jumping thing now and everything that they have going on, I think we say LeBron started that? No way. A lot of people, LeBron, you know,

he's done things that he's done. Michael Jordan did things that he did. Yeah. Right? Jerry Krause also done things that he did, like break up the team. Yeah. Everybody has a different journey.

I don't think LeBron started it. I mean, when you saw Charles Barclay go to the Rockies, LeBron wasn't even in the league. Yeah. Right? Barclay wanted to win the title. When you saw Gary Payton go to the Lakers that first time or Mitch Richmond,

LeBron wasn't in the league at that time. So we can't keep blaming LeBron for every single thing. Yeah. They love to blame that motherfucker, bro. And I feel bad because, like, LeBron, he's so competitive. When I saw LeBron at 15 years old, when I seen him in the gym, I was like, well, he should be in the NBA right now. At 15. Yeah, 15.

It was a summertime. It was a famous. A lot of conversations go around, interviews. A lot of people talk about the famous Michael Jordan games in Chicago. And then when he got to the league, my whole thing is being competitive. So if I'm going to be competitive against Michael Jordan, against Kobe, I view LeBron as on that same level, even though he's five years younger. So at some point, you've got to be a bigger OG. but LeBron was so talented

you don't really get a chance to be an OG because you just want to compete. Like this guy's a man you know so sometimes you know as an older player you got to take your foot off the gas in terms of oh I want to compete because it's so many shots

being thrown at him. Yeah. You know people expected this 17 year old kid to make big shots at 17. He missed a big shot and they say he's not like whoever, not like MJ for example well MJ was 21 years years old when he first got into the NBA. LeBron was 17.

Pressure is insane. Even though I think MJ career, his stats is a little bit more impressive than LeBron's when you talk about LeBron's like number one score of all time. Yeah. The longest career and most dominant throughout the whole time, then when you compare that to MJ's nine scoring titles or if you compare it to his six championships, five, you know, so it is some stats that on a scale. Yeah.

might weigh MJ's way, but at the same time you know, you can't, you know, people LeBron started early. You can't pick out of those you know everyone's like Kobe, LeBron, Jordan, you can't pick who's the greatest because it's different times and... The thing with Kobe and myself, Kobe was in an era

where at one point in time I was like the best defender in the league and then I'm like and I was an apex defender. Apex, you know, Tarantosaurus Rex. Yeah, you were fucking crazy. I'm thinking I'm just going to eat up everybody but sometimes like a guy like Kobe, although I didn't back down, he was very successful.

So it's a different mindset when I was thinking of Kobe, even when I joined his team. Yeah. Because I'm like, man, he's still my competitor at that point or my, the opponent, versus the guy like MJ, I'm just looking up to MJ. You see, so for me, I feel emotionally different. And then a guy like LeBron, I'm like, wow, I'm just like impressed with LeBron. So I don't get a chance to appreciate like a Kobe or a Tim Duncan because we was in that same era of, you know, I don't want to be on your team.

I want to play against you. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? So it's kind of hard to like, yeah. But I think, you know, LeBron's career is super impressive,

but I still think M.J. And even Wilchamler, Will Chamberlain is the great, is the goat. Okay. Yeah. You know, well,

Chamlin's for sure number one goat all time. Fair, fair. So I have a question. You were telling kind of like, I saw this, I don't know if it was a clip, or if I just read this somewhere,

but you were talking about when LeBron, there was like a scrimmage or some game you were playing with Jordan and LeBron. And LeBron was, I think, 16. And this is something when he got the title, like the term of, like, the one. And I guess he scored over you and Jordan looked at you and was like, oh, he's the one.

No, that is a lot of different stories. That definitely wasn't one of the stories. No. But some things that happened in the gym was LeBron was just playing very well. Like, he was playing against All-Stars at that time in that gym and posting him up. At 16. 15, 16. I think I played against him twice in that gym, but it could have been one time.

but I do remember him playing very well. Yeah. You know, and I was still, I was 20, I was 19 or 20. Yeah. He's five years younger, so I remember going up against him, and on a fast break, he was coming full speed. And I was like, wow, this body looks different coming at me than the NBA player's body.

So even when I got in front of him and checked him, and, you know, he was young, so I checked him up. I put him on the floor, but he might not have even fell on the floor. I mean, I can't quite remember. But I remember him being able to absorb it getting up and playing the game. Yeah. At 15 years old, it's pretty impressive. Yeah.

Damn. Such a, it's, you, you played in like such a golden era of fucking basketball. Yeah. With a lot of fucking legends, man. A lot of legends. Who do you think, like, who do you think you had the most fun playing with? Or, like, who stands out the most? Playing with or against this?

With, on your team. Uh, I mean, Kobe stands out, obviously, because watching Kobe is really almost magical. You know, you know, you know he's on. him and you know there's no aliens on the team yeah they do say he's aliens in disguise yeah like they do say it's aliens and disguise who knows man that's a whole other conspiracy that's a whole other conspiracy who's who's who's the actual NBA alien right but you know but watching kobe is uh my it was magical yeah because it's certain things that you like me as a player for example 27 and oh in high school in new york city three championships at the rucker or whatever you want to call it

all this cool stuff, then you're playing against another level and you want to be like that. You want to be like Mike. That's a real commercial. That really hit us home. We want to be like Mike. But when you're watching a guy like Kobe,

like, this is different. So you mean to tell me if I work on my game like this, I can play like Kobe? Okay, let me try that. Oh, it's not quite working. Yeah. You know, it's not quite panning out. You know, I think Kobe is right.

Yao Ming was incredible. Yal Ming, to me, was the most dominant player that I've played with. Yeah. Yeah, he couldn't... On the Rockets, huh? Yeah, you couldn't really stop him. Just because of the sheer size, or he just knew how to also...

Yeah. Size and skill. Yeah, you couldn't stop them. Is there anyone now that you would... If you watched the game now, you couldn't, like, make similarities to? Or does everyone just so unique? No, well, I always tell people, because of my career was... My awards wasn't maximized or optimized because I should have more.

Yeah. So it's hard for me to say. Why didn't you get more? Well, just the suspensions. Yeah. I still got a lot. Yeah. I still got a lot.

You know, it's pretty cool. I got some ones that's, that's, I can make an argument for being in the Hall of Fame when you talk about the defensive players. Yeah, why didn't they fucking snub you?

I don't get it. I'm not snubbed yet because you still got time. Okay. I'm not a first ballot. Okay. I would have been the first ballot if I would have had my head on straight.

Yeah. Why do you think, why do you think you were so fucking just wild? I think like the game, but I just love the game so much. And I'm used to playing in New York City like Gunn Hill Road or Gershwin Park. Everybody play on Gershwin Park now in Brooklyn.

I played in the real Gershwin where there was no advertisement, where there was no security. That's the real Gershwin. I played in the real Gun Hill in the Bronx. You know, from that perspective, the way I play on a street, on a concrete,

I brought that type of style to the league and it just doesn't mix all the time. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? So, you know, I think there's players that I admire, like, when I went out of see the game and I kind of visualize, like, a Kauai Linnett, like a maxi, like a, who else am I, there's a couple of players. I like Jeremy Grant.

I wouldn't compare, he's not, I like his game. I like Grant's game, but it's a little bit not the same, but he's really talented, plays defense, plays offense. Yeah. Might even been an all-stop, I'm not mistaken. Yeah. Yeah. There's a couple guys I like.

So, so the, obviously, I think one of your most vower moments, and I think honestly, one of the most vower moments in, like, sports history is the fight at the palace. What, like, explain that, because obviously you were, you see the clip, you're laying down, someone just tosses something at you. Right. Why did you, why do you think you snapped? Why do you said, fuck it? I mean, you can answer that.

You just, yeah, you do something at you. Well, just, you answer it first, and then I'll answer. Well, yeah, I mean, it's disrespectful as fuck, obviously. Okay, okay. You're playing the game, obviously, for these people. right um i'm just wondering why like then you were like i mean you just answered it yeah okay you just said it was disrespectful it is it is all right so you just answered fair but i can talk about

the moment but it's very important that people answer that it's like you know you're no there's like your teacher gives you a problem okay here's the problem that i want you to solve well i can't solve it you might have to solve it is that type of thing It's a thing where, you know, it's a thing where, you know, media does have influence. Yeah. Over how we think. Yeah. That's, you know, right.

And then I think it's a thing where when you look at the first comments from the commentary, they were saying this is really a disgrace on how a fan could throw something out of a player. But when you look at that next day, the commentary changed. And the one gentleman who mentioned that got fired off the network. So then now you're kind of. comment is one that you, because you're seeing it on YouTube, you probably wasn't there. No, yeah, no. You probably saw it on YouTube.

Or maybe you saw it live. So from that perspective, you're taking in that information. But just from that perspective, what happened? The media tried to frame it like it was just bad for the players to do that. Well, the way they framed it was, well, in terms of editing, the editors probably got, you know, their marching orders from their executives. So how they edited it, the clips, was. was from table to stands.

Yeah. But you couldn't quite take out the cup at it. Because the cup, if you were to took out that edit of the cup splashing, then you would have saw my back to the camera running into the stands. So that kind of saved me a little bit in the grace of the people. Right? But then when the documentary weeks came out, then they showed the whole clip. It showed the toss of the hand.

But that next day, They didn't show that full clip. And then the media, the marching orders was this is the story. And then the story was players cannot, you know, fight fans even if a fan was to hit a player. But it's like, why the fuck are you like throwing something that someone is just like, come on? It was a $50 bet. So I know the guy, John, we're friends. The guy who actually threw the cup.

Someone said, I bet you won't do that. Well, what happened was the two gentlemen in that frame, in that frame, right? So what happened was the one gentleman who raised his arm up, you'll see that he bet John Green $50 that he could have hit me with a cup of beer as I was laying on the stands. And I found this out because as I was depressed for years and I missed my defensive player of the award, I missed the All-Star game, I missed another All-Tie. I just made 13 more NBA averaging 18 points and the best defender. That year I was averaging 25 You're going crazy That year was averaging 25

And the prior year Average in 18 I finished number 6 in MVP So here we are the best team in the league So now I'm like moving up to number three Of two for MVP You only get a small window opportunity for MVP It's not a big window unless you LeBron or Kobe

Right so from that perspective I was a little bit frustrated and depressed Like damn I missed on my world my all-star So anyway I reached out to him years later We became friends he said, hey, Matt, I got something to tell you. I was wrong at the time.

He said, I'm really sorry about what happened. He apologized to me. And the media still have yet to apologize for the way they edited it, those document, you know, the edits, the vets, the clips, and then also the titles, the subtitles. But he said, sorry. He said it was a $50 bet.

I think the gentleman name was Ryan. So when John threw the cup, Ryan went like this. So as I'm laying on the scorers table when I'm looking up, I see this guy like this. So I'm like, that's the direction I got hit. And he must have hit me. And everybody said I hit the wrong person.

But I think it was about hundreds of millions of people that was commenting, they were all wrong because he was the one, hundreds of millions of people was wrong because he made the bet. I actually hit the right person. Yeah, the guy who said to do it. The guy who threw the cup would have never threw the cup if the guy didn't make the bet. Yeah. So a $50 bet cost $6 million that year.

it costs more contracts in the future. So that's like now you're talking about 50 to 60 million. You're talking about, I lost every endorsement deal. I lost my signature shoe that day. I lost my college juniors commercial that was about to be signatured up that day. I lost all three of my ESP and TNT commercials pulled off the air. You never even seen those commercials.

Fuck. Right. So anyway, for that perspective. What was that like? Did that fuck you up when you went to go? Playmore, were you like, did you feel like kind of fuck this? I mean, in the beginning I was, but I'm tough. I'm from Queenswood's Project, honestly, we're super proud where we're from Mald

Deep, Nass, MC Shan, Roxanne, Shantay, other things has happened. Vern Fleming. I'm from the biggest federal housing project in America. That's tough. Yeah. You know what I mean? But when you're talking about someone taking something from you that you don't own anyway, I see.

Because somebody else hits you, you just, you know, that's just life and you know what you, now you know who you, uh, in the rooms with yeah would you have done it differently if you look if you knew everything you knew now if i know everything i know now would have done it differently but i would also um before before that moment comes up knowing everything i know now would i have done it differently yes but you also got to identify the people who made it cool for a fan to hit someone and that's okay that's bullshit so you also got to try to identify the names who was involved in the rooms behind the scenes.

Who said that was okay for a fan to hit a player? Right? Because neither was okay. I think it was more of the fan's fault. Yeah. Who I became friends with. Yeah. Because people tried to also make it a race for. When I seen... At that time?

Yeah, you'll see different clips. Oh, it's that. So when I seen that, I'm like, no, no, no, no. This is between two men. This has nothing to do with black and white. So me and John became friends, everybody else out there making a big deal out of it. Yeah. And trying to, whether you're, whether you're on this side or that side, this is a thing between two men. Since when did people

get in between two men that got an issue? Yeah. Well, that's, I mean, dude, even now, like, now even more so than ever, like, the, it's almost as if, like, people want people to be in a feud, like, because of race, because of anything. Very, like, it's, like, more now than ever. It's just, like, uh, let's make people hate each other. It seems that that's what's happening on the internet. I don't know how much time you spend on it or if you like on Twitter or whatever. No, it's very true. I mean, I knew that in 2004, which is why when people see me and John Green cool,

they're like, man, that wasn't the narrative. I was trying to paint. Yeah. I was trying to cause up a stir. Yeah. And for me, you know, I'm always like not because when people, as much as people say we're divided, I don't see it every day. I'm also not in different parts of America, but I don't see that every day.

day, yeah, it's not perfect. Yeah. That's true. And we got issues and we got to solve. That's true, but I don't think it's as unbalanced as what's being portrayed in the media. Why do you think they do with that? Why do you think they want everyone to fucking hate each other?

I mean, who knows? I don't want everybody to hate each other. Yeah. I don't know why other, I mean, do people want people to hate each other? Do people hate each other? I don't think so. I mean, I don't think naturally people hate each other. But yeah, sometimes you want your own space.

Yeah. Sometimes you want to be maybe a black guy want to be around his black friends one day. Yeah, for sure. Maybe Asian girls want to be around Asian girlfriends one day. Why not? Maybe white guys want to be around white guys.

Why not? Yeah. Like, why not? Like, when did that not become okay? Yeah. To be able to be around like-minded people or people that just look like you. Yeah.

Or that doesn't make you racist or doesn't make you. You know what I'm saying? And it's okay if you want to be with your white friends or your Indian friends. Like, when did all of this not become okay? It's fucking weird, dude. It's weird now. It's just fucking, it seems as if like it's like the conspiracy theory coming out,

but it seems as if like it's on purpose. Like they want people to be sort of divided. I mean, I think there are individuals in plural that probably feed off this and who knows why, but you got people like myself, yourself, and other people that, you know, look at Los Angeles. There are a lot of people that work. I know black execs that are hiring white interns. I know white execs that's hiring black interns and vice versa.

You know, we can get it to percentages of which ethnicity is hiring the most. Yeah, you know, of course there's not going to be equal. But I think when you're looking out on the media, if you look at that for your information, then you're going to be like, wow, we're divided. Anything when it comes to race, the race. I don't pay attention to what I see on TV. Yeah. It's sad. It's sad how that's a reality

though. Because it's like that's a lot of people, most people see shit on. I mean, nowadays this generation, everything is like internet, but there's still a whole group of people in a age bracket. I feel like it's like maybe 50 plus it like only watches TV because they're just not as in tune with the internet shit. Yeah. And TV, I mean, if you only watch a TV, that's old school. You really don't have any information. shit yeah or you only or you only have what they want you to see and not what's really real that's 100% even you know yeah but I do believe like there are people that's not paying attention as much uh I feel like we in a good spot now it's not always portrayed but I feel like now we are

in a good spot you see a lot of people getting into social impact you see the youth really they have substance and intention with what they buy and yeah who they hang around that's that's the future you know and that's what we need to keep continue to encourage yeah what What was your childhood? Like you said, obviously you grew up on the East Coast. Was it like both parents there? Like, was it fucked up? Was it good? It was up until, I mean, my parents were married for a point in time, got divorced

at 13. But I grew up, and I saw both, I grew up in a household. Yeah. You know, and then I also experienced the divorce part. So it was a little bit of both. My community was huge. And, you know, other parents was like your parents back then. Yeah.

Your other fathers was like, you know, you do. something bad. I don't got spanked by other parents before. You know, it was like that type of community. Yeah. Yeah. Damn, it's different now. It's fucking, I guess it depends where you come from. But do you, do you see like, I don't know, I guess, I guess on the internet, how much, how much on the internet are you? Like, Twitter and, like, social media shit. I'm on the internet for other reasons, honestly. Like, I love boxing.

Yeah. You know, so I'm always paying attention to what's happening in boxing on you know on the internet um sometimes i'll divel and dabble and you'll see a headline and you can't really avoid the gossip but yeah i'm not really big on that you know but i'm more into the boxing now i'm watching golf a lot of golf on it online um and then other things in technology but i'm not necessarily into anything else it may be something in nature yeah i really love nature and different things like that um but other than that um Um, not really into...

This might sound funny because it's like most times I ask this question. It's, it's a little bit, I'm not, not necessarily like harder to answer, easier to answer, but how did you find basketball? Obviously, you're tall, right? But that's not all great basketball players are tall. Um, but how did you find basketball? How did you decide it was for you besides the hype, you know? Yeah.

I mean, I started playing at eight. My dad needed me to get rid of some of this energy I had. I got so much energy. for many different reasons how I grew up things that was happening you know when you're a kid you start to get molded so my dad thought kept bringing me on the court

and that's when everybody was outside back in the days kids was outside band I think I was the last generation I'm 35 just turned 35 I feel like I'm the last generation of kids that were like outside packed outside

yeah riding bikes fucking around I go to Queensbridge now some days in the summer doing prime hours when we was outside I don't even see nobody sometimes yeah I'm just like wow you know yeah but my dad had me on the court then at 10 years old I was okay

wasn't that good lost him three on three tournaments I just kept you know fighting getting better getting better hustling hustling trying to win at 12 years old I started playing with the men outside you know and then um um um when did you realize you were good uh I think I think I think I know I was always tough I had a lot of energy but in terms of being like talent good and started hitting my jumper uh I would say 60 15 years old in high school, I was like, ooh, I'm kind of getting nice right now. Yeah. And then from there, like, how did it go?

Like, when do you think, okay, I'm going to try to go to the league? Well, I actually knew I can go to the league at about 16 because I was playing against some pros. I was fairly strong. So when I started to play against the men, and I was like, wow, 16, I'm like starting on all the men leagues and winning. Yeah. So at that point, I said, I can go to the league.

then I tried to go out of high school but then they said I was going to be a second round pick so then I went to college two years then I was the first round pick you know after my sophomore year did they change rules in the NBA with that whole after LeBron thing like the whole at a certain age you had you can yeah they changed it

I think it was not even just right after LeBron it was a couple other members shortly after LeBron but now you gotta be yeah I don't even think you can come out of high school right now no yeah I think you gotta be a first one year in college Yeah. You know, I think it don't matter when you come out

because, like, Kevin Garnett, he was ready. He had a 21-year career. Sean Kent, LeBron James, I think where it's getting kind of clogged up or confused is the fundamentals, the entitlement that we are just putting on these players, we need to stop entitling these players. They need to, you know, they're going to be fine.

We were fine. You know, and I think, That's where, you know, you have to say, okay, no more high school players because you've got to point the finger at something. As far as what you mean entitlement, like they, like they just deserve something that they shouldn't get into the league, like as soon as possible? Not saying they, I'm just saying earn everything. Okay.

You know, just earn everything. You know, obviously the scale is different, but just earn everything. Like, you're going to get it. It's coming to you. But still, like, earning, not just like, oh, don't, don't make this player. You're upset because he's going to get mad. I see. Who cares?

Yeah. You know, I don't care. You don't care. How much money you make. You did this wrong. Calling you out. Go take your Bentley, go home and be mad. See you tomorrow and practice.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like that type of thing, you know, I think because sometimes I think that part is what's missing. Yeah. You know, and that's not, these days, players don't want that. Yeah. Players want to, I don't want to practice today.

You know, not everyone, but you see a lot of plays just not, you know, I don't, I remember wanting to go, I couldn't wait to get back to practice. And I'm not the only one. Michael Jordan was like that. If you look at my Indiana pace of practices with Jermaine O'Neill and Stephen Jackson and Reggie Miller, who's a Hall of Famer, he was in practice every day. Couldn't wait to get to practice. He didn't miss practice.

What do you think it is? It's just fucking, I'm just, I'm that good, they think? good. I mean, obviously, these people are fucking superstar. A lot of people are not that good. I mean, if you're in the NBA, you're good. So you can't say like an NBA player sucks. They used to say that back in the days also. They would say, man, how does player

like a Brian Cardinal? All right, you go play against Brian Cardinal one or one. It's always funny, the outside like the commentators or the fans. Yeah. It's like an NBA player, he's fucking good. Yeah, you go play against Brian Cardinal one-on-one. You're not winning. You're not winning.

And it's the same thing now. You've got players that are good they've earned it but we we get confused that a player is just because they're getting you know 10 20 million it doesn't mean they're as good as a player that was getting five million back in the days I see you see I'm saying it's a huge different the money's different but the game is not the same you're not that good you know as that player you just got way more money yeah you know than yeah because like we talked about earlier about the AI that more opportunities more memorabilia, more sales ability. Yeah, more sales, everything's going up,

and you deserve it because that's what we fought for. Yeah. What do you think about that in regards to, like, you know, the whole conversation between, like, the WMBA and the NBA and how it's like, women want the more money, but, like, there's not necessarily that many more people watching it.

I love W&A. Well, I like college women's basketball. I coached Division II Women's Basketball, Cal State, LA. So I've been coaching there for five years, and I've been coaching Palisades Girls in high school. So I love the women's game. Yeah.

I just feel like sometimes, well, now they're doing it now, but before it was not a lot of women input on the women's game. And then it wasn't a lot of, it wasn't a lot of women's supporting women's basketball. Yeah. That's the main thing. That was the main issue. Yeah.

You know, so now you got a lot of men support in, you know, the game is growing. And honestly, besides the gentleman from NC State this year, I just couldn't tell you a lot of people's name in college. Yeah, I see. Men's, I could tell you, I watched the WMBA draft. You know, I'm actually trying to get a couple of their jerseys right now to wear. Yeah. Not because I don't like men's basketball, but this year, you know, the women are on fire. Yeah, the Caitlin Clark came out crazy. Yeah, but there's a lot of, like, there's, it seems to be a lot of, like, hate against her. I don't think so. I think, I think what's happening is the WMBA women. They're great, and they're going to show Caitlin that you're going to have to work for this. So I think the media is creating a lot of it because if I was like a player that's playing against Caitlin, I'm coming into the game.

I'm, you know, I'm ready to go. I'm not about to be worried about how good you are and then what contracts you got. So now it's going to get magnified that I'm looking like I see what you're saying. I'm doing the same thing against the next player the next night. So I think, I think, like, once again, people are trying to baby Caitlin. Yeah. Right. And they're trying to force entitlement, right?

And now they make it seem like there's some war when right now, this is the time to celebrate the WNBA. It's not the time to only be reporting on that because Caitlin's going to earn it. She will earn it. She's that type of player. Yeah. You know what I mean? So you think it's just the competitiveness where it's like they're like maybe it's the competitiveness is that's how. is being portrayed differently than, like, what's actually happening?

Women's basketball is competitive. That's why I love coaching women's basketball. You know, way before, now it's hot. Everybody's like, women's basketball. We've been coaching women's basketball for the last nine years. Women's basketball is competitive. Yeah. And it's fundamentally sound.

It's exciting. Yeah. You know, so from that perspective, like, let Caitlin earn it. She will earn it. Don't worry about that. She's had 30 to the other night. You seem to be ahead of your time. You were ahead of your time on the podcasting stuff.

You're ahead of your time on it. Head of that guy. Head of the time with the name change you saw all the players put different names in the back of the jerseys. That's one. Give this man his flowers. Let's go. Podcasting way ahead. Yeah.

That's crazy when you did it. Women's basketball way ahead. Yeah. And many other things. I'm just saying like, well, I think the reason I was ahead because I'm super curious. So when you're talking about podcasting, you know, in 2014, it's lining it up like this with the microphones. It's on YouTube. It was like, because you see the vision, I went back to school for digital marketing.

Oh, really? Yeah, when I retired. I was always doing technology. Even when I retired, so now you're paying attention to predictive analytics and what's happening in technology and how it's going to shape the world. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? Even when you look at the NFTs, when you look at all the athletes that had these, it wasn't their fault that things were being rug pulled. But the problem was you don't really understand the ins and outs of the NFT world and how long you've got to be.

be in a game, you can't just get in and out. Yeah. And if you don't understand the compliance attached behind it, so this is like things that I've been doing for a long time. So from that perspective, I'm just curious about certain areas. Yeah. You know, which would probably be someone that works

at ESPN in the back office and marketing and technology. That's the type of curiosity I have. So then you'll see things happening, you know, before, maybe before time. Yeah, I see. But just because you first doesn't mean you finish yeah yeah for sure

you can be first and too early yeah you still got to put that that work in the time and yeah I'm curious about your curiosity just in other things obviously just about your life but all right boys quick and abrupt for the podcast check this out Versa grips

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You change your name. Why did you change your name? I changed my name because when you look at, you know, society, when you look at where we at, it's hard to market positivity on a consistent basis. Yeah. You know, it's hard to push out positive content. You know, for example, people rather me do a reality show, a ratchet one, hey, we're getting drunk tonight, yeah. Yeah, oh, yeah.

Then do a positive one like, hey, you're going to be really great one day. you're going to raise a good family one day so sometimes you'll get people having to submit because the opportunity's there that comes with capital whereas me I'm not ready to get involved I want to do only social impact stuff

even though you know I'm from the streets of queens I'm from where not I can throw that I could change my lingo up when I go back home ain't nobody you know in that hood you know that you know that can relate more than metal of peace But at the same time, it's like, at what point can positive content be consistent?

You know, so when you change your name to metal world pieces, like you don't have no other options because you don't really get these opportunities. So it's like, hey, we have an issue in this world. We have an issue in this world. I don't know if you see it, but it's becoming real chaotic, you know. So I headed a game there, even look at now, even look at 2024, 2023. You know, even in the Middle East, we got to bring stability to that region. It's super important on both sides.

You know what I mean? So it's not like picking the side, picking that side. No, we need to bring stability there and then also around the world. You know, and we can't forget about, oh, just because we're, you know, maybe you're more affluent or more elite than someone else. But we all are on this planet together. Yeah. Right.

So at some point, we got to respect that. Yeah. Is it true that you had, because I was reading, something about you got into, like, Buddhism or something like that? Are you Buddhists or are you, do you identify with any sort of religion? I love all religions. I like Buddhism personally. Yeah.

Because it's something where you could, you know, tap into, breathe, relax, meditate. But I also love, I love Catholics. I grew up in the Catholic system. Me too. I was born a Baptist, you know, so that's Christianity. Yeah. My brother's Muslim. My favorite person in the whole wide world is Jehovah Witness, my grandma.

Yeah. I have Jewish friends. I've been to Shabbats, and some of my best friends is Muslim. You know, so from that perspective, I still identify more probably with Baptist, being a Baptist, just because that's how I grew up in a Baptist church. But I definitely lean towards, you know, Buddhism as something that can keep me centered and then also just be understanding of everyone's religion. You know, versus, because it's so many times at an early age you learn, oh, this religion is not good. This religion is not good. Then you start thinking about a person that you met and you start putting their religion in front of their face.

Yeah, in front of who they, in front of who they really are. Yeah, like who are you? Like, I can't, I wasn't here thousands of years ago. So I don't care what religion you are, you know, and that causes so much tension to time. We can't let religion cause tension. It should bring people together. It shouldn't be, it shouldn't separate people. Yeah.

You know? It is. nowadays it just seems to be like a conflict with fucking everything yeah it's like if you don't believe what I believe or feel what I feel then you're like you're wrong and it's like when did when did that become like that's not the human experience because everyone is so unique from where they've come from exactly that how do we say that like you believe this and I believe that you're wrong because I believe this exactly exactly I mean you hit it a little you pinpoint accuracy hit it on the nose like we're all so unique we're all so special yeah right so

why do I have to agree with you, you know, or why do I have to be like you? If I want to be like you, then I'm going to say, hey, I want to be like you. But if I don't want to be like you, I don't want to be like you. You know, we're all so special, and I think we've got to get back to that. Yeah.

How do you think we get back to that? You know, I think just the future of how it's going now, I feel like everybody's more open to learning about others. I think, you know, technology is great, even though it is being streamlined, you know, currently as you speak, but I feel like the platform is, it makes it available for you to do a podcast

you don't have to go to a network you can get your personality out others can get their personalities out with their brands and just who you and we get a chance to get a chance we're getting a chance to know each other more now I think yeah you know but then I think like what you said earlier it gets crazy because when you said it earlier

which is 100% true is I've been in the space internet shit since I think you fucking won the finals fucking 14 years I've noticed that like you said and I've fully experienced this is like if you're not doing the crazy sort of attack or the violence or the fight or the thing it doesn't get like when we talk about this it's not going to be the clip that goes viral you know it's going to be a clip that goes viral where you talk about the fight

right and it's kind of like it's just kind of like a fucked up ecosystem that we're in now no it's true man it's true and from my perspective i have a like i can easily say podcast launching his game is we Yeah, you just straight and go viral and get it going, but that's not what I want to do. So the way I'm going about it is not necessarily catching on to different things. That's why I had to go back to school for digital marketing. That's why I had to go back to school for coding. Because if I'm going to another platform, yeah, they're going to do all the work.

But that doesn't happen in my case. I got to do the work. I got to plug in the API from Lipson, straight to Spotify. So are you making a platform? Is that what you're saying? Yeah, I'm doing a platform. For hosting of what kind of content? Just multiple podcasts.

And a lot of things, digital marketing agency, just tech now. I got a deaf shop. Okay. Yes, I have developers, a lot of developers and CTOs and stuff. But I got to, but the only way I can get my content out, if I want to do something consistently positive, I got to build it. Yeah. Because I'm not going to get, you know, it's not a lot of clickbait.

I don't got sound bites. Yeah. I don't really have a lot of that stuff, but I still think I have something interesting. Yeah. I mean, you thought I was interested enough to come on your show. No, you are. Maybe it's not millions and millions of views, but maybe I'm interested enough to come on your show.

Yeah, of course. Of course. I mean, at the end of the day, like, I don't give a fuck if it's not a million. I just like interesting people, man. Because I had one guy told me, wanted me to do a podcast. Yeah.

And they said, the reason they didn't pick me up is because I have my act together. What? I couldn't believe it. Well, someone, someone like literally told you that. Literally told you that. me that, man, so you got your act together.

Come call me later so, you know, because I'm like, because I went back to school, you know, because I'm trying to do something else positive and then my philanthropy. And because I got my act together. Once you come in a pocket, start fighting people. Like, I don't get it. You know,

and I thought about it, and I laughed and I said, you know what? I'm just going to continue to do what I do. And I'm not moving from the iron line. You know, I'm going to continue doing what I do, but that was, it was just so interested in the head that I couldn't believe I, I couldn't believe it. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think, I think full circle though, I think in time to, I mean, look at, look at sort of the, the most successful podcasts, right? Like Joe Rogan, for example. Right. Go. I really like his podcast. He's, he's, he's, he's, yeah, there's moments that are

super viral with, like, super famous people, but he, he, he overall is just interviewing people that he's genuinely interested in. And he's not trying to, it's not trying to, like, make it something that it's not to just get attention. I mean, he's just, done it for so many years. I think over the next five to 10 years, there will be people who that's, they're still their focus. It's just like genuine good conversation and trying to understand. That's always going to continue to rise. Because I think the clickbait culture of like, oh, you know, if I'm able to be like, I fought fucking, you know, metal world peace. It's like, that's obviously going to get more views. Yeah, yeah. It's just obviously going to get more views.

Right. Understandable is entertainment. But, but I think at the end of the day, I think in time, it's the good always kind of just continues to rise. Maybe. Maybe. just a little slower. I think also some people can't get a perception out of their head of someone that's evolving, right? So they expect, like for example, me, yeah, I used to be, you know, super vital on the core. I had this personality where if I came out with a podcast and just looked for clickbait and it'll probably go viral. Yeah, for sure. Because of whatever things I've done in the past. But in terms of evolution, sometimes people are not ready for evolution. They don't see you in that light and it's like okay do I go back for clickbait and maybe get a you know contract or a

sponsorship or do I stick to what I'm doing and staying on the iron line and that's how I feel about it you know sometimes people are not really ready for evolution yeah well people want you to be what they what they think of you or what they think is like maybe in that sense like what's going to be best for them and their platform yeah yeah yeah which is just kind of it's fucking lame which is understandable of you I mean I don't know I don't know if I understand it's fucking lame It is kind of lame, but I understand if you have a bottom line and you're running, say you're running the platform for someone else, right, that's just the chair. And they're going on invocations and you've got to operate daily.

And you're still making the decisions on who's getting paid or who's not. You know, I guess at some point, if you don't know how to take advantage or monetize this type of content, right? You don't understand how to, you know, what type of paid ads should you doing this type of content? Yeah, I see what. right what type of sponsorship should you should you go after with this type of content yeah right so if you don't understand that world then i understand why you wouldn't you know yeah sign a guy like like this to a podcast yeah that's fair so so are you going to have your own podcast then yeah i already started working on it's called test your greatness test your greatness uh where we just want to

encourage people to just test their greatness and never give up um we're in um it's not out yet we're in beta right now um we've got a couple of events coming up i'm excited about it And we're also going to have the other podcast for other athletes that want to just get into their bag, right, on our platform. That's fine, but I won't be engaged in those type of podcast. What did you do? So after you retired, what did you do to continue to make money? Because you always hear these stories about like retired either football or NBA players

that just basically go fucking broke. What does you do to maintain your livelihood? Well, you know, it's really tough because you go through ups and downs. but one of the things that I decided to do when I retired was go back to school because you got to think about it inflation. Not everybody is ready for inflation.

Right? So if you're already playing pro sports no matter what the sport is, even entertainment, even entertainment, or even entrepreneurship, right? If you're focused in your area and now you run into this cash and things are going well, whatever happened, if you're not focused on

tax strategies, if you're not paying attention to inflation, right? It's just things like that. it's not your fault. You just got caught up in the world when, right? So now your lifestyle is one, but inflation is going in another direction. So by default, it's going to balance out. Yeah.

Right? So at some point, you've got to hit the brakes, right? And you've got to be comfortable. And then you've got the emotional perspective. Do you feel comfortable not wearing jewelry? Yeah, letting it go. Right? Do you feel comfortable just having your home, right?

And then building for the future versus showing what you got. Right? Because that's, you know, inflation, that's going to affect inflation, too, depending on how much money you have in your account. Because, you know, that chain is not, you know, maybe the Rolex is, uh, yeah, but it's not appreciating. Well, a lot of it's not appreciated, and the gas is not appreciating. You know, what's your tax strategy? How are you thinking about it? And if you're paying an account manager or accountant or CPA firm, well, with inflation, if you're paying these big prices you was paying when you was getting the bag, you can't sustain that. So what do you actually know, right, where you could do this at home and just scale it from

your own home family office? Yeah. Right? And scale it up. And I think that's, it's not the athlete's fault. It's just the lack of education. So we're here to pick the athletes up. We don't, don't be discouraged, entrepreneurs, athletes, celebrities.

Don't be, it's why I launched my firm. It's why I, from scratch, launched my firm, you know, really to be supportive. you know this is something you actively do yeah yeah i have a CPA accounting firm have food de sherrys all in house fucking was that after so that was obviously after you retired yeah after after i retired actually a little bit during

but during i was still into basketball honestly um but then when i retired i went back to school and built up you know my my private equity operations firm nice yeah is that so is that one of the do you have other businesses besides that yeah we have a lot of businesses inside we have easycare link dot com which is a nursing SaaS platform that provides nurses

to facilities. I'm on the board of that company. We have buttercloth.com which is easy care link we took from six figures of revenue to seven figures, high seven figures, and buttercloth from zero revenue to high eight figures right now. Are these companies that like you're actively like, are you

like a minority partner or are you like a owner? It varies. It varies. I have services. I don't finance. I do have private equity. vehicles. People could invest, but I can't solicit, but I do have private equity vehicles, but as if right now, some I'm on the board and have maybe more equity, and then some have a little bit of equity. It just varied. We have about 30 companies in the portfolio, and

we've got to actively work with them. Some of them don't do well. Some of them don't last, and some of the companies last. Yeah. And now it's all about just continuing to add value to the companies and continuing to pick good founders. Yeah. You know, and just, you know, so this is the kind of, you know, the world that I like. Yeah. What do you most, what are you most invested in or most passionate about now, like right now today? You know, right now, I'm most passionate about my team. You know, I'm most passionate. You know, we just built out of sales vertical. So super excited that it's going to work across different genres.

And right now, at this point, you're talking about eight years of doing this. It's eight years of hard work. So from that perspective, it's no longer me bootstrapping. It's more about me, you know, really being supportive to my team members. So I'm really most passionate about how could I say, how could I help one of my members today? Yeah. Because that's the only thing, you know, at this point, you know, at a certain point, when you run the company, it depends, you know, where you're at. But it's almost out of your control.

Yeah. At some point in time, it's out of your control. So all you have is your word. You could only motivate that day because after that Zoom call, they're going to go out and do it. they, you know, whatever they feel is best. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So I'm most passionate about being supportive for my team.

Yeah. It's tough, man. Running businesses is tough. I think a lot tougher than people think. Yeah. And the hardest thing I think is finding people and how to keep people motivated. Yeah. So how do you keep people motivated?

You know, I try to empower. I try to be on the same level, not be like I'm higher than you or I know more than you. I'm actually learning from you. And I'm hopefully empowering you. And hopefully this journey and experience is something you would have never gotten anywhere else. And it's something that you could take and grow with and build your own career.

Yeah, we would love for you to stay with us. But this is really for you. So it's like, you know, trying to do different things like that to keep people motivated, you know, to continue to collaborate with us. You think the sports background and being in sports and basketball for so long, like has added to your ability to be a part of, I guess, a team in a sense?

Yeah, 100%. When I, you got to think about it, when I first got into business, I had no background. Yeah. So when I retired, the first day, when I retired, I remember I was in bed. I was laying down. I woke up the next morning, super depressed, couldn't get out of bed. I'm like, man, what am I going to do? Because I knew I wanted to be a head coach, but I knew that was going to be difficult right after retirement because of my career.

Yeah. Even though I'm super, I have a high basketball IQ. So as I'm thinking about what I'm going to do, I'm like, man, I ain't good at anything. So I'm in bed about two, three, four hours. I'm just like in this deep, deep stare. I literally replayed every moment of my career in my head, the good times, the bad times.

So then as I thought about it, something hit me and said, oh, wow, I was an architect major in college. That was my first major. I was going to be a math teacher. My second major was art. But when I was going to the MBA, I dropped all my classes. I took a communications class and I just knew I was going to pro.

So that stopped at 19, right? At 37, I retired. So I said, man, if I was going to do that back then, I said, if I tap into that, I think I'm going to be all right. So then I called UCLA and I apply for extension courses. I actually studied for my Series 7, but I didn't want to sit behind a desk.

I knew I wanted to do something to athletes, entrepreneurship, but I definitely didn't want to be behind a desk. Yeah, I don't blame you. You know what I mean? So I said, so all this, It was also hard, so that was one thing. But then I went back to school for digital analytics, coding, business analytics, Google analytics.

I learned how to work all the platforms from GitHub to AWS. And I was learning the stuff on my own, even how to read PPMs and how to read contracts, learning the languages of hair tools and whereas and all this stuff because it's expensive. If I'm trying to get a deal done, if I got a call an attorney, some attorney's charged $1,200 an hour. Yeah, it's insane. You can't sustain that. you think it was easier going back to school after because like i remember being in school when i was younger and i eventually dropped out because i couldn't keep paying for tuition yeah but i also found

myself younger being like damn i don't really like this like this is not for me and obviously like i went on my own way and i was able to be successful so you know glory to god for that but like after that and for you obviously after you you know you put that stuff to the side you came back do you think it was easier for you to learn? Was that process easier then than you think it would have been when you were younger? Yeah, it was so hard, y'all. I had so many stressful days.

It's insane. Because even when I first started, I said, okay, I'm going to do an online class. So I start my UCLA extension course. I go online. I'm super stressed. I can't learn, right? So I call them back and I say,

listen, I need to go into the class. I said, can I please start this over? Do I have to pay again? They was like, no, don't worry about it. So I had to go into the class and just talk to people and talk to the professors You learn better that way

I learn better like by seeing and also in person Yeah But on Yeah I learn But I communicate better With boring documents So I like diagrams

But I communicate better When I see like a boring Document And you mean boring like Just like something extensive That is like Just like Google Docs Okay

You know I can see what's happening You know I can map it out I'll better line by line by line by line and then the diagrams is good too like it can give you a vision of the future but i i can see better just by boring words if that makes sense i was now i just i remember school i was not good at it i wasn't good at it i don't know why i wasn't good at reading i wasn't good at

comprehension i mean i can read i but i couldn't i couldn't comprehend like i couldn't read a book and then tell you hey so what happened in paragraph two and i'll say this happened in paragraph two it'd be a red mark coming back yeah so you weren't at the at the like sort of regurgitating what it was now I couldn't I couldn't just comprehend a comprehension was real I passed the SATs based off math I thought was good yeah math I thought I was pretty solid but um the the comprehension part was where I always ran into trouble what about what about and then this is back to basketball but what was the hardest thing for you in basketball the hardest thing for you not good at the hardest thing for me in basketball was going up against me yeah that was the

hardest thing because my passion and emotion was just unstable. It was just, it was a fire that is really hard to, you probably, people saw me play, you know, but that thing was really burning inside. Just because you just, it wasn't good enough, you wanted to be better? It was, I just love, I don't know, I think I, it's just weird because I love to hustle. I love to play. I'm never satisfied. I hate losing, but I only won one championship.

First year in NBA, we won 13 games or 15 games. I couldn't deal with it emotionally and mentally because I typically don't lose I typically went everywhere I was at you know so from that perspective me was the biggest hurdle did you ever have conversations with other players

about that like I'm always so curious because obviously you guys are all at the top of your game when you're playing you're on that team like was there anyone who stood out who you ever had a conversation with that like pushed you or helped you or made you feel like I don't know the not the same because obviously you're a different person,

but was able to help you kind of overcome that. It was a few plays, man. I had an interesting conversation with Derek Fisher during the playoffs, because him and Kobe are just incredible, as we know. Derek Fisher hit just as many big shots as Kobe Bryant. If you really look at it, Derek Fisher hit just a million big shots as Kobe Bryant.

So one day I'm in the back, and I'm not afraid to take big shots, but they're not just going in all the time. but I'm never passing it up if that makes sense. I see what you're saying. Right? I don't mind having a bad shooting percentage of fans. It's like, you should not shoot.

I'll shoot it again. But I wanted to actually go in. So I said, Derek, I was like, how do you make big shots? I'm in the back of the... I asked Kobe first, and I asked him at the same time. I said, I got to ask you out something. So Kobe gave me this quick answer, and then I let Kobe get back to being busy.

And then I went to Derek. Derek sit right behind Kobe. What did Kobe say, though? He might have said something like, just take the shot. So classic. Just do it. He may have said something like that. But I had a longer conversation with Derek.

Yeah, go ahead. And when Derek was breaking it down, you know, he was like, I can't remember exactly this 2010, but he said, you know, just the same rhythm, same motion, same things you do in practice, you know, try to block things out. But he gave like a maybe it was a 20-minute conversation or 15-minute, something like that, which helped me in the playoffs. Yeah.

You know, so that was like an emotional kind of, like I felt like stable emotionally with that conversation I had with dirt. Really interesting conversation. Because it made you feel like you could just you could do it based on what you've already done. Yeah, because it's like saying how do you read

or how do you answer this problem? I can't, to ask them how do you make big shots? It's nothing tangible that you can touch. You just got to like feel it. Yeah. And believe in it. It's such a crazy concept because I always wonder that.

It's like obviously everyone top of their game, what's like really the, like what's really separating the greatest players from like just making the shots? Yeah. Because you know when you see like the free throws or whatever, obviously some players was better at free throws or, you know, court shots,

but it's like what's really stopping that from happening? Obviously defense, that's one thing. But like it seems a lot of times it's just like a mental. It is. It's a, you know, sometimes we don't, people really don't understand where they carry tension.

So, you know, sometimes you have your forehand. like this. Some people walk with their forehead scrunched all day. They don't even know it's scrunched. It's like, just like that, you're holding tension. Yeah. Right? Or you might have your shoulders or your hips or your jaw, and you don't even know why my jaws is clenched. If you just relax, like, oh wow, they, they was tight all day. Yeah. You know, so sometimes we hold that tension. It's physical, but it's also a little bit spiritual.

It's a little bit of mental and emotional. So sometimes you've got to understand your body. Yeah. You know, I think everything speaks for a reason. Your body speaks for a reason. and so just understanding things like that could help a performance anybody's performance, even at the workplace. Yeah. Because if you're reading a document tense, like what are you thinking

about a second paragraph? Yeah. Did you miss the second line? Yeah. Are you even getting all that information properly because you're like tight? Yeah, because you're tight, yeah. I, I, did you ever have any sort of conversations with Kobe that were like very

powerful or was it always, he's just like business? Kobe's incredible. like never had any real powerful conversation I think me and Kobe very similar from the point of being introverted yeah but I think obviously

I was a Laker he had something to do with that I think he respected how hard I worked but I think our conversations came from just playing together and obviously it's his team and I was took me a while to confide to that yeah I saw I saw a clip

You were used to doing more. Yeah. And you kind of have to let it go a little bit. He was big on, I mean, obviously I'm not as good as Kobe, but I got my own journey. 100%. Yeah. Right. But he was really supportive.

And he understood me. I think he got a clip where I read a clip where he talked about he had to understand the player. And it wasn't that he was saying, oh, yeah, matter, I'm going to give you more shots. It was a thing like he understood how I was failing. Yeah. You know, and I really, and I caught on to that, that he really understood how I was feeling. But he got a job to do, because this is his team. He got a big job to do.

Yeah. And he didn't let me get in the way, but he also would give me these little hints of, you know, you're going to be a high. I understand how you're feeling, but it wasn't an emotional kind of conversation. Yeah. You know, he was never like, he's not going to cry. Kobe's not going to be, man, I feel your pain. he's never gonna he's never gonna do that yeah yeah that's cool man i mean shit you you fucking you played it like i said earlier you played such a golden era yeah for sure 100% i i i hope it's

i just wanted to be like that again i think uh i think we're getting back yeah i think people gonna be surprised at where the league is gonna go because i always thought like you know when you take players like uh i mean obviously there's so much many great players but lebron obviously doesn't have much more time and i was always curious like i mean he's even said it like he doesn't know how much more time he has in the league yeah but i was always curious like do you do you think it when players like that leave do they need new players like you know lebron is never going to be someone like you know lebron is ever going to be some like these people again but do you think you need new players that create that sort of hype or there's

enough players already you can create that the players one of the issues we have we try to ride out these stars, right? Like, okay, Stefan Curry, for example, that Warrior team where Mark Jackson helped put together that team with RIP Jerry West. Yeah. So they put together this team, although Stefan Curry was a huge star,

but that team became stars. Stefan Curry, his winning made him a star. Yeah, he came when he was like, whatever, 10th pick or whatever he was, Clay Thompson, Dremont, I think they was all high picks. But they became stars. And now they are stars, and they are embedded in his, versus just giving it to somebody.

If somebody, like, for example, SGA this year, probably should have gotten the MVP. You could have, you could have went Tatum if you wanted to. But they said, okay, they had three stars on that team. They were just a really good team. Okay, you give it the Joker, understandable. But it's not understandable with SGA. He deserved to be a star, the best team in the league, right, from that perspective.

So I think if somebody earns it, let them be the star. for example, look at Brunson. He's becoming a star. Now, he is a winner. We know that he won in high school and college, but his name wasn't as recognized. You know, when he first got into the NBA, now he's with the Knicks playing well.

He's a star. He earned it. So you think they hype people up too much? Because like the Zion Williamson thing, I'm not saying he's not a great player, but that was an example of when he was coming in, they were like, this guy's going to be this, and they were really pushing that.

Well, he's really incredible. Yeah, he's amazing. But he didn't. do what everyone, like, what they made him out to be what he was going to do. Maybe he's still going to do it. Maybe he's still time. I think Zion's issue was getting hurt. Yeah.

So that, like, kind of, you know, imagine you're marketing someone. Then they hurt. Yeah. You're going to have to market someone else. So I think his issue was different, but there are other people that are just being superstar, a star, like, are you kidding me? Do you know what a, media, do you understand what a star is? Do you understand what a superstar is?

Not everyone's a star. some people are just really good players yeah you know what do you think separates the superstars just how you play the game like your your your um output and also doesn't it take more time to be like that's a superstar

no you're menana's a superstar yeah he's a star because not a lot of people can guard him right but yeah and then sometimes it might take somebody like Michael Jordan he got into the league he was 21 as a rookie at some point in time he turned 21 whereas versus LeBron was a star at 17

And LeBron was a star way before Michael, even though Michael was a McDonald's All-American, had to, you know, play very well in college, but LeBron was a star earlier in the NBA in terms of age. Yeah. Right? Sometimes it takes people longer, you know, to become a star. And I think your work and your output and how you affect the game, you know, are you a role player? Are you the go-to guy? Did you just become the go-to guy?

Like Ben Wallace, he's a star. He wasn't a star in the beginning. But he became a star without office. I think just got to let it happen naturally. Some guys was a star two years ago, and they're not a star today. Yeah. You know, star, star, superstar, and they are not a star today. So then would that make them not, quote, unquote, a superstar if they're not one today?

Because I feel like wouldn't a superstar sustain. A superstar will sustain, absolutely 100%. I'm not saying a superstar is any better than any other individual. Right. But in terms of the game, yes. Yeah, a superstar is a star, superstar because they was a star over time for a long period of time. Not just one year because, you know, you're on the team. Yeah, yeah.

It's like a super power team. So who do you think are the superstars today? I think SGA's a, well, it depends on media and your game. Sometimes, like Tim Duncan, superstar, but he's a superstar ball player, didn't necessarily care about media. Yeah, he didn't get a fuck at, at all. So sometimes people to this day might think Tim Duncan's,

you know, one of the worst players in history because you just see his personality until you got to watch his game. I'm looking at the stats. And you'd be like, hold on, he's a superstar. Yeah, you're right. So you think there's a little bit of... He's pretty incredible.

Do you think there's a little bit of, like, you have to kind of play it up for the media of it? No, I don't think you've got to play it up. I think you could be a superstar and have that kind of personality of a Tim Duncan or whatever. But we just got to, we got to recognize that more. Yeah. You know, maybe you don't get the big Nike deal,

but you're still a superstar. Like, SGA, to me, as a superstar, there are some other people that's becoming on Brunson's. He's a star. I don't know. He's almost a superstar. In New York, he's a superstar. But I think he got to have a couple more good years.

Yeah. And he'll be a superstar. His jersey potentially could be retired, you know, in the garden. Yeah, massive. What do you think about Luca? Luca's a superstar. I think he's got to play more defense, but he does other things well. Yeah.

Yeah, he does other things well. His defense is actually getting better. He got an offensive foul in the finals. You see him hustling a little bit. But there's a couple things he can do, you know, to, you know, to kind of be that complete player, I think. Yeah. But, you know, his game is, his offensive game is pretty solid.

You still, you obviously still are so involved in basketball. Do you think you would ever get a position like a, like a head coach? Oh, well, I want it. I'm going to tell you that. I want it. But getting it, you know, you're not the one. I can't sign myself. Of course not.

But I definitely won it, 100%. How does that process go? You just have to like try to petition to do it? He's got to ask and hope to get a yes. Yeah, someone, someone get them a fucking job. You just got to ask, I hope to get a yes, man. Would that fuck up your other businesses? No, because I have a board and executives.

So it's just a signature. Is there anything else, like, involved in the NBA that you'd want to be a part of? Coaching is top of mind. I really love coaching. I set my company up so I could, if I ever had to coach, he's just a signature. Yeah.

And, you know, all compliance has met. What about, what about, like, you know, the, like, Shaq's, like, really fucking good at this, like, commentary stuff would you ever do that if they ever i'm not really into the commentary um i like like spectrum lakers tv yeah i'm more into local it pays way less yeah but i'm more into local tv than national tv yeah yeah i'm not really international so it doesn't really um appeal to me i see what you're saying yeah damn man you fucking god i just you're interesting as fuck to me. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. Yeah, I like how you were, I like how you were,

you said you had an art major. That's my second major. It's, that definitely makes sense after talking to you. Yeah, he's a more creative dude. You ever do anything else like that's not, like that no one would know about, that's like super left field of what they would think of you? I mean, I think now cats coming out the bag in terms of like product managing, developers, managing. I didn't expect this. Technology. Yeah. A lot of people don't know. I manage, got about 32 devs that I manage with my CTOs. I mean, I manage with my CTOs. I think that was unexpected and, you know, building a firm that's fiduciary based around fiduciaries and stuff like that.

I think that type of stuff is unexpected. But that's been my main focus over the last couple of years, honestly, just doing that. I'm on to launch this firm and having clients and now building out the offering, you know, different things like that. You know, and being not me personally. I can't do everything but from a tax strategies to diversifying your portfolio to help them not only athletes, but people create generational wealth planning because things they're not thinking about.

But it's mostly coming from a passion because it's coming from as an athlete making mistakes myself. Yeah. And also my other colleagues that's going through things that's like, man, how can we make a difference? How can you architect a strategy where you can really help being an architect major? Maybe I'm not major in architecture, but I can all, I can architect something different.

You know, being the architect, that's going to take me five years. I can put it in that time, but is my time better spent building something else? I see what you're saying. You know? I'm curious.

Could we, can you jump on real quick? Is that okay? Could you do that? Yeah, yeah, just jump over here. That's live. Ron, I attest the third. The third. I'm junior.

Let's go. Even though I changed my name in the Middle World Peace. My dad is senior. So I guess I'm just kind of like you're you're obviously you're playing basketball yeah has he has he like how much has he added to your game uh a lot of mental stuff we do when we like practice pull that a little closer yeah yeah it's better yeah that's better yeah no you're great yeah go ahead yeah go ahead um

can ask me one more time yeah for sure so i'm curious obviously your father how much has he added to your game in basketball um a lot uh felt like i feel like i'm a great defender um i feel like i'm a strong player i'm uh coming into my body now so i feel like i just just i felt like i watched him growing up so yeah kind of just picked up stuff he didn't have to really teach it i just kind of got it yeah what about just as a father not in regards to basketball just uh for me just like staying humble yeah not better than anybody and you think i happen to anybody so you just just kind of just row with the punches whatever's going on just make it the best yeah I just always find I always like I love I love seeing like the shit be passed down in a

positive way you know yeah yeah man good friend got a lot of great friends um that's the one thing about Ron the third is that um you know he his friends attest to that you know which is like the most important piece you know what type of human are you and who you spend your time with He checks all those boxes, and he's pursuing approaching, you know, getting into the NBA. Yeah. Which I love that focus, you know, so that's super exciting. You know, and everybody has a different time when they get in. Yeah.

You know, so I really love that. And he's also super creative from producing music from a young age and, you know, got a lot of great, the creativity side, the great human side and obviously the athletic side. Yeah. You know, it's really exciting to see what he's going to do in the future. yeah is it you ever feel pressure that like you had to play basketball uh not really um growing up i wasn't like obviously i'm around basketball but i wasn't always playing yeah so i remember like living i was living here in like eighth grade and i had got in trouble so my punishment was kind of to go back to indiana to uh stay at my mom and just like leave la

yeah so i told them i was going to playing the basketball team out there So I tried out for the team and made it and then never went back, but I was playing like the local school intermereals. So he's like playing with the kids. Did you? I told him, I was on the team. He ended up calling the coach at the end of the year. I remember that. Coach was like, yeah.

Did you want him to play basketball? Well, yeah, of course. Of course. Not forcing. I never forced them. Yeah. Because I never wanted to put that type of pressure. I'm like, you know, if they wanted to play, they can play.

But I remember called his coach. And it was after the season. So I called his coach. Like, so how did the round play? Can you tell me what you saw? He's like, what you mean? I said, yeah, how did he play on the team? He's like, he didn't play on the team.

So then I called Ron. I was like, yo, I thought you was on the team. He said, I was playing intramurals. So I was like, it wasn't really like a passion. Yeah. And then right after that, I moved right back here and start playing at Palisades. Yeah. High school and then finished at Beverly.

But I really started playing like sophomore year. of high school so it's like kind of late yeah but like you know feel a feel way better about it yeah he's definitely got better and just been working on my body too lifting a lot more and just feel feel good it's exciting how much does a lifting you think affect being good at basketball because like obviously it's such a skill-based thing obviously being in shape makes sense but like i mean if you're not the most skilled on the court like uh offensively if you're strong enough you could you know, you might got to guard some bigger guys or, you know, you'd just be a better defender

or just like... Did you, did you train a lot? Like, were you known for lifting? Yeah, our error was different because when my dad got me working out early so when I was eight, you know, my dad would have me doing a duck walk, bunny hops, push-ups,

sit-ups. Yeah. So I was doing at eight. At eight and then ten, so my dad had me, I didn't realize what that was doing to me. So my dad was working me out since I was young. So then when I got older, when they were,

time to train and lift weights, but I was like, okay, this is exciting. I've been doing this since I was eight years old. Yeah. My body would not, I don't think I would have been ready for what I was doing in college if it wasn't for my dad, like, just doing it. And he would trick me. He would do these little tricks to make us work out. Like what?

Maybe he was, maybe for a peanut butter and jelly sandwich or something. You know what I mean? Like things like that. Just like trick you. Oh, you can't do it. Oh, you can't beat me. And then he like slows down and then you beat him. Oh, shit.

Right? And then the next thing, you're like, I can beat, I just beat my dad. Damn. You know, things like that. He was, like, playing all these little games. Damn. Did you, did you, did you, like, spend a lot of time growing up? Like, was it like that with him?

Yeah. What do you mean? Like, did, did, if what he just said, right, did you have moments like that? Was it? Yeah, like, a little bit. Like, we'll be, like, shooting around and stuff. And we'll just, like, just practice random moves. But, like, we'll skip the fundamentals.

You know, we'll just start, like, shooting fadeaways. Yeah. stuff. Yeah. So skipping all the basics and just, just all Kobe fades. Yeah, I know. We was younger. When we first started really getting into it, as I was thinking about, you know, how where should we start? You know, so I said, okay, at least have the mechanics. But then I did skip the fundamentals. So now we're bringing a lot of things back together. His game is actually becoming way more complete. I think VLC a really good player in the future. Is it a possibility for you to go to the league?

I think so as long as I don't get hurt I got hurt three years in a row three surgeries back to back like knee stuff shoulder both ankles okay not knees not knees enough to miss the tryout yeah yeah at least not to fucking knees

yeah shoulders whatever ankles yeah just enough to like keep you out keep you out but I love his resilience and I remember he was going to hurt and I felt bad I'm like man he's getting hurt and he said he's not stopping I was like that's what this is about

yeah there are so many players that got to the league at some point in time at great careers you know and I think that's what is about the persistence to hard work because then it builds character then at some point in time if you're going to be in the game and everything you work for is going to show at that point in time so

it's super excited do you think there's like an age where it's like you're too old to get in that's a good question yeah I think maybe 38 35 34 yeah but some but you see a lot of scenarios where guys got in that 27 28 26 25 yeah yeah um there's definitely like at some point maybe yeah but um I think I don't I don't feel old yeah yeah of course not you fucking 25 you definitely not old I'm not hearing it from anybody I'm still just going to go for it yeah for sure we're excited man yeah thank you for having I appreciate you

coming on for real thank you guys that was awesome man i really appreciate your time i really appreciate the conversation and i thought it was a great show man thanks for having yeah thank you and then anything you want to let the audience know about like you have coming up or you're excited about or your podcast or whatever let them know yeah man well thanks for having me in your show once again uh meta world peace uh if you don't know me the pandas friend dot com which is our ecommerce brand it supports our podcast and then we also have to test your greatness podcast coming out um look out for round our test the third basketball career and all the creative stuff that he's doing um also the art test family we're doing a lot of great stuff in art um you know so just look out for us in general as a whole

and as a collective and uh stay tuned appreciate you man thank you for coming for us yeah awesome thanks a lot man thank you thank you very awesome thanks a lot man