RAWTALK - The Nick Fuentes Interview | Part 2

Episode Date: December 2, 2025

This Episode is Sponsored by: BetterHelp Visit https://www.BetterHelp.com/RAWTALK today to get 10% off your first month! Sponsored by: Prize PicksUse code “BRADLEY” & Make your first $5 line up & get $50 whether you WIN OR LOSE!https://prizepicks.onelink.me/ivHR/BRADOn this episode of RawTalk, Bradley Martyn sits down with Nick Fuentes and talks why many young people resonate with Nick’s message, why the Epstein Files may never come out, is Nick a Psyop? His upcoming interview with Piers Morgan, getting back in the gym and much more! Hope you enjoy, see you next Tuesday!SUBSCRIBE HERE: https://www.youtube.com/c/REALRAWTALK?sub_confirmation=1LISTEN ON APPLE PODCASTS: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rawtalk/id1294154339FOLLOW RAWTALK PODCAST:INSTAGRAM | https://instagram.com/getrawtalkTIKTOK | https://tiktok.com/@askrawtalkFOLLOW BRADLEY:INSTAGRAM | https://instagram.com/bradleymartynSUBSCRIBE TO RAWTALK PODCAST CLIPS: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvzSBNBOK599FqzrTZS8ScQ/?sub_confirmation=1SUBSCRIBE TO LIFE OF BRADLEY MARTYN: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWTQG2aMDYKGDqYEGqJb1FA/?sub_confirmation=1SUBSCRIBE TO FITNESS CHANNEL: https://www.youtube.com/bradleymartynonline?sub_confirmation=1RAWGEAR: https://www.rawgear.com (CODE:RAW)

All right, guys, before we're getting this podcast, when they go to the app store right now, download the price pick app. It's hands down the easiest place to do any fantasy sports picks on the internet. The easiest place to do it. Just go in there, click more or less depending on the on the pick. If you guys go download the app right now, use code Bradley on your first $5 line up. They're going to give you $50 for free for any other lineups following. So go do that right now. NBA is in full swing.

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Second time having them on, it's going to be a good one. It's going to be a good one. And last, we were, we were, I was trying to plan this for some time. And it was like kind of last minute, you were just like, I'll do it because you're in L.A. for like Thanksgiving stuff. But I appreciate you coming back on, genuinely. That was probably one of the cooler episodes that I was able to do.

And the response, you could see how much people love you, even outside of your platform that you're sort of native to. And I guess the first question I have for you about this, in regards to your whole journey, why do you think people are so connected to you? What do you think makes people so connected to you?

lately or just in general it's interesting because late like in general and i answer answer more lately because i think it all kind of coincides but i want to hear your perspective well you know i've been doing this for 10 years and uh the message has never changed i've been doing it since 2017 and uh you know the tone has changed a little bit i've gotten older and i've refined my positions but it's always been really the same principle which is america first and you know usual kind of stuff. And when I started, I was radioactive. Nobody wanted anything to do with me.

And like, nobody agreed with me. Even within my circles on the very far right, I was sort of a pariah. And I think the reason that people have come around now, I think the country changed. Yeah. I think that especially after the pandemic, I think it was kind of all downhill after that. Yeah. Because that's when people really got affected by the corruption, the lies. people lived it firsthand.

And it affected them on a deep and personal level because they were confined to their houses, had to get vaccinated, people died. And I think that's when a lot of the credibility of the institutions and the narrative that they pushed started to fall apart. And I think it kind of totally collapsed soon after that. I think the other big precipitating cause,

shortly after the pandemic, Elon bought Twitter. And so we had total free speech on X. And lately you've also had free speech on Instagram and YouTube. Yeah. They kind of caught up with X. Do you, I mean, I'm sorry. Yeah, sure. Do you see all the clips and the things?

Do you see, like, do you go on Instagram? Do you have an Instagram? Can you see what people are saying? I can't. Bro. It is insane. Like, so you don't have an Instagram account that you look. No, no.

And I make a burner every now and again. They always get banned. dude the things people say about your content is is it might be some of the funny on the internet like i don't know so you haven't seen the like the memes of like you and candis oh i see those i see the clubs yeah yeah okay or like you like you dunking a basketball in slow motion yeah yeah yeah it's you become this like i mean for lack of a better term i guess a star on the internet and the reason why i asked you that question was from my perspective, excuse me, perspective from the outside watching it is, I think a lot of the things

you talk about, people have thought about for a while and for a long time. And I want to get into this conversation about the white nationalist kind of ideas because I think a large portion of the people who follow you and who are engaged with you, besides the fact that like you tell the truth on a lot of different subjects that people have like been afraid to talk about for forever because I'll never forget when I first got into, and I think I told you this off camera last time, when I first got into making content in 2011, 2012, 2013, there was three things you knew you can never talk about. And I'm not, and I'm not like a, I wasn't a big popular guy that I didn't have a big following on YouTube. I was just kind of starting out on

Instagram and then I started to transition to YouTube. And you always knew it was like, you couldn't say racist things you couldn't say like you couldn't talk bad about black people that was one right you couldn't talk bad about gay people that was two and you couldn't talk about the jews and it was and i'll never forget it i remember it always felt like the first two were like you kind of could right right it would offend people the third one was if you talked about that group of people it was like you knew there were repercussions for sure right and so I think it's interesting how over time it's become, and I want to get into like why I think this is happening,

but more specifically to you, I think a part of your popularity, because I did the podcast with you and I wanted to talk to you about this when you came back was I probably had at my gym personally six different people, people who are, I had an electrician come here and he was like, yo, I really appreciate the interview you did.

Thanks for doing that. Like we need to like platform more of these people that don't always have like the mainstream narrative idea. I had a couple of like gym bros come up to me and talk about, yo, I really appreciate, like real people. And I will get into this because it has to do with what I want to talk about later.

But the thing that I said, well, why do you really like, why do you like Nick? Why do you like his content? And I'm talking about the, the electrician, some Mexican guy,

the Jim bro was a Mexican dude. And we were having this conversation. And he's like, I think the reason why, he said specifically was because you tell the truth on a lot of things and you say a lot of the things that people for a very long time I feel like have been oh I don't know if I could really say this right and so I think that's why you garnered so much love from all types of people because I don't know if if you know this but like when I reference those funny videos like where you're

saying like I'm not going to say the word I know you say the word but you're like can a can a Can it? And we're a breathe. You know, like, and people, I read the comments and it's like, black people be like, nah, no, he gets to pass. Like, they're just like, for some reason when he says it, it's like, it's okay. Like, it's funny to see that, you know, you're, you're kind of beyond the political side of it. It's just the, the nature, I think, of the control or the censorship or the, you can't do this or you don't do that or this word is so bad because that got so, and that's why I was referencing back like 2011, 2012, everyone was so afraid to say anything that was like just anything outside of the politically correct, you know, thing.

Right. And I think that's the core of why you have so much success, because you do it in a way that, you know, it's, it's not, it doesn't feel hateful. Right. Sometimes. Sometimes, not all the time um but it feels playful right and i think it makes people go yeah like this is not as serious as it should because outside of you like i've noticed that which is like i have there's another content created at my gym black guy makes funny like funny videos some like you know like reverse racism type content it's hilarious and he's like yo i love i love nick he's like do you got to bring him in the gym i want to meet him so bad so it's like you have these real people who are really like excited that you're having success and i think it was funny

after, you know, you did my pod and then you, that was like kind of like towards the beginning of like the mainstream like generational run. And then you're on these other podcasts. And everyone's reaction to you, you know, the Ben Shapiro's, the Matt, the, the daily wire, the crew, the, the, you know, all the people who are, this guy's basically, they try to frame it as if like it's just in cells and it's just, it's just people who they have no lives. And that, the that's why they're supported and they have nothing else to live for and you guys should get out and work and this whole idea when they talk about it right right but that's just not that's not the that's not the people who are actually coming up to me in real life and saying no i like this is

the reason why and it's not always your political takes it's how you carry yourself with uh i think the this is just me right and uh i i whether whether it's political or whether it's uh you know just making content i've noticed over the last four or five years that's the thing that's the thing that makes people successful is just the truth of like who they are as a person without trying to hold these filters and be like, I got to make sure everyone's okay with this. And I think that's why you have a large, large part of your success. Yeah. And so on that note, what's your perception when you start to get the run, you start to go up?

And everyone's like, oh, well, you shouldn't listen to this guy because he, you know, he says this, this one specific thing without like actually analyzing or looking at the other things you're saying and they just make you to be the villain again. Well, I mean, there are certain people that for them it's very political and they're panicking that people are listening to my show because on a deep level, it's political. It's a political talk show.

We talk about political issues. And the things that I spotlight on the show, like, for example, the Israel lobby, the war in the Middle East, they find that very inconvenient, like Daily Wire in particular. They're obsessed with Israel, foreign aid, the wars. And so for them, they're basically trying to keep cancel culture together, which is, no, no, no, you can't like this guy, you can't listen to this guy. He said that. So that means he's disqualified. And I think you're right. A lot of people, they don't agree with everything I say. And the jokes don't always land. But they see it and they say, you know, here's a guy that's not part of the establishment. He's authentic. He's just being who he is. He's unfiltered. He's raw. And, you know, even people.

that are left wing, people that are not white, people that you wouldn't think are my usual audience, have some level of respect for that. Yeah. They say, I don't agree with any of this guy's views, but you know, he's kind of funny. Or, you know, it seems like he's got his heart in the right place or something like that. Yeah. So I guess there's just a lot of fatigue about the level of control that we've been under for 10 years, whether you call wokeness, censorship. Everybody recognizes all of it went way too far. It was suffocating and oppressive. And now people say, you know, we'll even tolerate who was considered the worst of the worst. It's better than what we had before. So, but I think that's a very specific

thing. I think there's also a lot of people, like, and when I say the specific thing, I mean, there's a lot of people that have a political, like a vested interest in people not liking me. Because what happens is if people watch me, if they get to know me, if they just sit down and watch the show, they see I'm polite, I'm respectful. I don't think I come at it from a place of hatred or mean-spiritedness. I think they see that I'm just a little provocative. I just don't have a filter. And I think everybody has someone like that in their life. Yeah. And that's the kind of comedy they watch or, you know, whatever. And there's some people that still, for whatever reason, they're kind of like the remnant of wokeness. I feel like that's still out there

in some places. There's people that say, you know, they just are not comfortable with free thinking. They're not comfortable if you, like, for example, I did the Tucker Carlson interview. Yeah. And I had a comment in there where I said, you know, I like Joseph Stalin. Yeah. And I see a lot of people go, oh, well, I don't like that. I don't like what he. And it's like, really i mean and people don't have to love the comment or maybe they don't understand where i'm coming from on that but it's like it's almost like they can't accept anything into their consciousness they can't entertain a person or the idea if there's something that just doesn't pass through the filter something that isn't mainstream or something that is i don't know

i mean are we allowed to have a controversial opinion are we allowed to say something that sounds wrong at first i mean to me that that's interesting That's eccentric. That's different. But there's still like a remnant that's deeply uncomfortable with heterodox ways of thinking. So when you said that it's a Stalin thing, what did you mean when you say like you you like him? Well, for me, I look at Stalin, just like I look at the other figure in World War II. To me, these are historical figures. The painter. The painter. The painter. You know, and I saw people on Twitter, they're saying, He's a Stalin admirer.

And I'm like, what does that even mean? To me, this is like somebody saying he likes Oliver Cromwell and Napoleon Bonaparte. It's like, this is a figure from history. He's been dead for 70 years. And so I look at it from the lens of it's an historical figure from a deeply fascinating time who became one of the most consequential human beings in the history of mankind. And I think, you know, I don't support. murder. I don't support mass murder or forced famine or, you know, the evil things that he did.

But he's an object of curiosity and fascination for me. But, you know, I guess it came out wrong or, you know, people didn't like the way I said it. But that's what I, that's what I mean by that. Yeah. You understand why they, they don't like it because they, they just go straight from, oh, he likes this guy, this guy did evil things. That means you're evil. I mean, of course, I get it. But on some level, I don't really. understand it because, you know, it's like, for example, women these days are obsessed with serial killers. How many Netflix shows are they going to make about, right? True crime. And like the morbid that women are into now, it's like the worst of the worst. And they,

and Luigi Mangione. Yeah. They were sending them their panties. Yeah. Kissing with like lipstick. They're like kissing letters and spraying it with perfume. I say I like Stalin and everybody loses their minds. But I think that's just free thinking. I think that's just, you know, maybe because I'm an intellectually very open and curious person, to me, I see nothing wrong with it. But for other people, I guess it signals that I'm a messed up person. Yeah, it's crazy.

I get it. I understand both sides of it. I also understand why they go, go, oh, look, look, look, he said that. Like, that's, he's, because obviously they want to frame you in a way that is negative, right? Right, right. Um, so this, this whole like Ben Shapiro, Mark Levin, these guys who, the thing that I don't understand with them is, uh, how they don't see themselves in it. Like how I, they say all these things and I don't see how they don't see everything else that they've sort of done or said, right?

You know, you talk about the, the dual loyalty thing. Like, there's that clip of Ben Shapiro being like my, you know, my great, the guarantor of my loyalty to the United States is because of Israel. Right. And I don't understand. why they don't see that like that those like you saying you like stall and then being like the reason why I sort of like ride or stand for this country that I'm in and I'm benefiting from is because it's another country I don't understand how they don't see the issue there when most people hear that and see that right what's your take on that like when I know I know you have your opinions on it right but like why do you think do you think they just believe that because it

worked for so long that it should just work now? Or is it like, are they willfully ignoring their words? Yeah, there's like a deep lack of self-awareness. Because when these people put this content out, you have to say to yourself, like, for example, even on a different subject, Ben Shapiro, he's in the middle of all this controversy lately. Everyone's criticizing him. and he goes on a show and says if you can't afford to live in your house it's like what are you thinking how did you think that was going to play he goes and says if you can't afford to live in your city go move somewhere else you don't deserve yeah and it's like do you hear yourself do you hear how that sounds and i genuinely think they don't and and here's why we have to realize that

like someone like Shapiro for example he came around pretty early on but he really hit his stride like 2015 2016 his entire career was built under the censorship regime and so think about this from like the point of view of a business if you're in any business all of your competition is banned from bringing their product to the market because that's really what censorship is yeah him and a handful of others were allowed to be on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, and not just allowed. They worked together. For many years, Shapiro and his Daily Wire, they were like the number two advertiser on all of Facebook. Yeah. So they had like a deep partnership. They also had an arrangement, I'm told, with YouTube during the pandemic, where they basically made a deal. If they don't talk about the

vaccine or COVID conspiracies, they could stay on the platform. So from roughly 27, until 2022, that's like five years. That's a long time on social media. They have like a virtual monopoly or like an oligopoly where a handful of people were able to use the major platforms and nobody else could. Gavin McKinnis, Jared Taylor, me, Sam Hyde, Alex Jones, like all the big people were wiped out, literally just could not be on the platforms. And so I think what happened is they got really comfortable.

And I think that muscle kind of atrophied. Because without the competition, without the resistance, they weren't able to develop arguments. They weren't able to develop, how do you defend against somebody like me? They didn't have to think about that because I was just banned. So they could sort of safely ignore that and pretend that didn't exist, this kind of, you could call it a critique of Ben Shapiro from his right or from a different perspective other than the left. Yeah. He was used to debating socialists and blue-haired college students.

Then people start to challenge him from a different perspective, and suddenly he literally cannot deal with it. He doesn't have the antibodies, let's say. And so I think that censorship made them weak, and it actually made people like me stronger. Because existing in the underground, you had to fight for your life to survive, to have an audience, to keep people coming in.

You really had to be the best of the best, have the funniest clips, the best talking points. information, whatever. And I think now that we're on a level playing field, it's like when Batman fought Bain and Dark Night Rises. It's like victory defeated you. We're here breaking your back now. So I think that's really what did it. All right, guys, this episode is sponsored by Better Help. Now, holidays are atomic tradition. And maybe it's a good time to create a new tradition in your life. Some talk therapy has helped me in the past. Has helped me at multiple different times throughout my past. If you guys have ever thought about doing it, give it a shot. It's a very easy way to get

an outside unbiased perspective on whatever it is you're trying to figure out in your life whatever you're trying to make sense of you know without the sort of people that maybe are you're speaking to currently that are sort of connected to your circumstances so a lot of times maybe their input will be a little bit biased towards that circumstance so better help is a good way to get therapy outside of that it's a good it's a good way to do it that it's online you don't have to worry about driving somewhere it's easy with the schedule go to better help dot com right now use code raw talk to get 10% off your first month if you thought about it do it now let's get in the rest of this podcast all right so this this next point is this is a little conspiratorial

on my part um dude what if you're the greatest sigh up of all time for who for them for them like so so so so hear me out i'll give you the i mean obviously this happened right and when i say this. I mean, they wanted Biden to win. That's like, it was like Trump, Biden, they wanted Biden to win. And then Trump had all these legal issues, got this massive donation. Then they're like, okay, Trump's our guy now because this guy's failing. What if on the social media space, because here's the point that I'm trying to make. And I don't know if we talked about this before, but I know I know you're aware of this. Obviously, CNN, Fox, all these mainstream things that have sort of, you know,

sciop us over all these years for everything to believe this, believe that. They knew it was dying. They saw it. So hear me out when I say this. There's no way they believed or they go, this is dying, hands up, we're not fighting. I don't believe that.

I believe that they knew social media was going to end up being this way. So there's, in my head I go, I look at Tucker, I look at you, I look at Candace, Pierce Morgan, all these people, I would say like the bigger political pundits and commentators, one of them, or all of them, or some of them, have to be involved somehow with the narrative. Whatever narrative, it's up for a debate. But I think there's no doubt that the powers that be just go hands up, we're not going to play this game anymore, right? it's very obvious that Ben Shapiro was a part of that from the inception

but what if they recognized our ship is sinking here who are people listening to the most who are they connecting with the most that's who we need to back and the reason why I mentioned Trump was that's kind of what happened where it's like okay people are really riding with Trump

because he's saying these things and he's rallied this like real core cult fan base there's no denying that next thing you know he gets a ton of money he gets all the donations you know he gets to get out of all his legal issues, and now he's our president. I'm saying, like, what if from a crazy perspective, it was like, imagine they did this, what, when did you start making content?

17. 17. They were like, maybe that's our guy. Maybe they came to you. No, I don't know if they came to you then or they came to you at some point. We're like, listen, you're going to be sort of this, this pressure valve. You're going to release the pressure on this by speaking more directly about these things. I'm not saying this is true.

I'm just saying it would be crazy looking back that if it was like, yo, what if you were the biggest siop? Well, I would say, I mean, that's sort of an accusation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just saying like, okay, I'm using you as the example, but there's Tucker, there's all these people. Because you know that moment it was like you guys were like Spider-Man in the interview. Yeah, yeah.

Wait, you know, I thought you were fed. I thought you were fed. That whole moment to me was just so funny because I'm like, someone's got to be the Fed. Well, it's interesting. Well, first I would say about Trump. he was backed by very specific interests in 2024. And it's sort of interesting because he was not even their first choice. In 2022, when I had dinner with him, it was coming off the midterm elections.

So the midterms were early November 22. We had the dinner a few weeks later. And at that time, all of the donors were running for the exits. Like Trump could not raise any money in 22. He declared his candidacy for re-election in 24, but he had no donors. All the donors wanted DeSantis. DeSantis was their guy, specifically. I'll name names.

Ken Griffin from Citadel, big Wall Street guy. Silicon Valley, Elon Musk. He launched Ron DeSantis' campaign on Twitter, on a Twitter space. Elon Musk and David Sachs from PayPal Mafia. And Mary Madelson, she was a huge backer of DeSantis early on, too. So you had the trifecta. Wall Street, Silicon Valley, Israel Lobby. They were all behind DeSantis.

In 2020, he announced, and it was a total flop. And they recognized that. By the summer of 23, I think he announced in May, he totally fell off, and they jumped for Nikki Haley. Yeah. And there was this talk that Nikki Haley would win the New Hampshire primary, and then she'd win South Carolina, her home state, and then she could be the nominee. She would be the Republican, if you could imagine.

Same deal. Mary Madelson was behind her. Ken Griffin, all these people then went behind Haley. She lost in New Hampshire. And, or maybe she won. I forget exactly. But she didn't win by a lot. They were forced to accept Trump.

And in May or June of last year, Miriam Edelson made the check out to Trump. And Elon went behind Trump. And Tim Mellon, the banker went to all these people eventually went behind Trump. And Trump effectively sold out. Like that, it could not be more clear. He took a ton of money from the billionaires. And all you have to look at is a small dollar contributions. In 16, the small dollar contributions,

distributions were like 60% of his total haul. In 24, it was like 30%. So it was like totally inverted. And he got tons of billionaire money. So I would say that when somebody is selling out, it's very obvious because they're getting paid. Me, I'm under attack by all these people. J.D. Vance hates me. Peter Thiel is trying to destroy me because I'm against Vance, which is his guy in 24. Elon Musk is always attacking me on Twitter. The Israel lobby hates me. they're trying to get me banned at all their meetings over the past few weeks. They're saying, we need to pass anti-Semitism laws to keep this guy. So, you know, very clearly I'm against Wall Street, Silicon Valley, Israel lobby.

But as far as the Tucker and Candest thing is concerned, there's something very interesting there. There's something subtle there. And I've been talking about this for a long time. If you watch me, I'm saying very clearly that our issue is that we have an organized Jewry in the world, which is to say that it's not every Jewish person that's alive, obviously. Yeah.

But there are, Jewish people as a group are very organized. They have federations, congresses, fraternities, like, they're extremely networked and organized. And with organization comes collective action, right? Yeah. If you're one person, you can't make a difference. But if you have a hundred people in a membership group and you're all rich or you're all lawyers or judges. Now you got some juice.

Now you got a little play. Now imagine this on a global scale. Jewish people are like the richest ethnicity in America, overrepresented in Harvard, Columbia, Yale, whatever. Super powerful. Now, that's fine. I mean, God bless them. Good for them.

They have a very strong identity and they're very successful. I think largely because they're smart or educated, that's a big part of it. But they also help each other. Here's the issue. They put their tribe. ahead of their nation, and that can be a conflict of interest. Now, that's what I say.

What Tucker and Candice say is completely different. They come out and they say, no, no, we don't have a problem like that, and we don't even have a problem with Israel, per se. They say, we have a problem with specific policies of the Israeli government and Netanyahu. And when Candice asked me to do her show, was this a big reunion? Did we, like, have a great time? No. She tried to put the screws in me. And she interrogated me and said, do you hate Jewish people for being Jewish? Do you hate Dave Smith because he's Jewish? And I said, no. I said, I don't hate any. You gave me Dave Smith's number, by the way. What's that? You gave me Dave Smith's number. I did. Yeah. And I like Dave. I love Dave, actually. He's a great guy. But what they were effectively saying is because you talk about Jewishness, you're an anti-Semite. And I said, look, I don't hate them. And I don't hate them. And I don't hate individuals.

or I'm a Christian. I don't hate anybody actually. And in particular, Christians have a special respect for Jews. We call them a witness people because they witnessed the revelation by God in the Old Testament and the Passion of Christ. Anyway, so she brings me on the show and says, you talk about Jews. You're an anti-Semite. The real issue is like the neocons in Israel. And I said, that's just BS. Like, clearly it's bigger than that. Then she goes on the show with Tucker. And for 15 minutes, minutes, they talk about me and say, yeah, he's like David Duke, he's a Fed, he's a real anti-Semite, you know, he's a weird kid in his basement. So I call out Tucker. Tucker has me on the show. I think it's a good conversation. Now he's going around everywhere and saying, well, I agree with

Nick on some things, but not his anti-Semitism and Jew hatred. Oh, so there's that line again. So there's like a triangulation here, Tucker, Candace, me. And it seems like they both brought me on their to either lecture me or interrogate me or to maybe create space between us and say, no, no, you're a Jew hater. I'm critiquing Israel's policies. And so there is a gulf between us, but the difference is they're still in on it. They still think Israel's our ally. They still have, you know, they're still part maybe one foot in on the organized Jewish lobby. And I'm totally independent of that. I would say that's the distinction between us. So you'd say that, so you're, they're the feds then. Yeah. Yes. It's crazy. But like,

but you had a good convo with Tucker. Yeah, I did. Obviously, the Candace thing went a bit different. The conversations that you guys had, I know you, I guess, I don't know if he has dinner with all his guests prior, but the conversations you had there, obviously the little more personal wasn't on, on the internet, obviously. What was that like? Was it, did you feel like? It was weird. It was very weird. It felt like a cop interrogating me, and I knew it would be like that. Like, you know, so we're talking, we're talking.

And it's sort of like, you know, he was friendly, but friendliness can be authentic or inauthentic. But there was like, I would say, an intensity there. There was a tension, even though it was friendly. There was like a deep tension mass by friendliness. And so we'd be talking and laughing and, you know, he's doing his laugh. oh, you know, he's doing that. And then he'd be laughing one second and then stop on a dime and say,

so you took money from Peter Thiel. And you've seen him do it on his show. He's got like this agility, this like range. And by the way, that's not true. So, but he'd be laughing, laughing, oh, ha, ha, that's true. You took money from Peter Thiel. That's like a real thing that he said to me. And I said, what?

No, I didn't take money from Peter Thiel. He goes, oh, okay, I believe you. I said, who'd you hear that from? He goes, oh, he told me. He told him. Yeah. I was like, no, that never happened. He's like, oh, okay.

And it was sort of like, and he was throwing, there was like a lot of weird questions he was asking me about obscure people that like a massive audience wouldn't know, but that if you're in this political space, you would know are maybe problem people or disruptive people. And so I would say that it was sort of an uncanny, uneasy, kind of dinner. And I wasn't talking about it,

but then the New York Times called me and said, hey, Tucker said you were really nervous at the dinner. Is that true? I said, well, I thought he was going to kill me. So, yeah, I was a little nervous. Like, I didn't think it was going to blow my plane up on the way there or something. But, yeah, so it was sort of strange.

And what I don't like about it is, we had this conversation, and everybody saw the conversation and said, oh, it was a pretty, it was kind of just like a standard interview. It wasn't very intense or anything. It wasn't contentious. But we all saw it. Then he goes on every show for the next few weeks and every single one calls me an anti-Semite. Every single one. He goes and says, oh, well, I don't agree with his anti-Semitism, his Jew hatred. It's like, what is that? He goes on one of the, on Megan Kelly. He says,

I talk to one of the biggest purveyors of anti-Semitism to convince him to stop being anti-Semitism. Is that what everybody saw in that interview? Because that's not what I heard. That wasn't my discussion, at least as far as I know. And so that's the kind of two-faced, like, not direct stuff that I really don't like. Like, that makes me not trust him. Yeah, I get it. It's, it's also interesting because it all feels like theater. Because then on the other side, the people are completely bashing him the whole time. You know, the whole, the whole, the Israel lobby, all these people are like Quartarleson, so they're still,

they're still attacking him while he's dismissing you. So, I mean, maybe that's just what, that's what you would do in that case because that's what you have to do because you were there, you were on the show

and they have to continue to disavow you in like slight ways. I guess, I guess my question is like, where do you think this is all going? Because it's very clear, it's very obvious how, how powerful the social media thing is and how the mainstream, old mainstream is dead. This is the thing that people listen to.

They, they're like, they're living and dying by this now. So if you had to guess who, I mean, I guess you just said it. I mean, who's the, who is the person who is, you know, I'll deal with this. I'll deal with, oh, you need to say this. You need to say that. Who are those people? Do you think it's Tucker still? No, I don't think so.

I think that Tucker has his own agenda. I don't know what it is. I have ideas. To sell nicotine or? To sell Alp. They sent me some. I loved it. But anyways, yeah.

No, I mean, I think that he is clearly, the way that the world is made up, it is factions. I don't believe in the grand conspiracy where everything is orchestrated by a monolithic force, like where Russia and the United States are secretly in cahoots, you know, it's being orchestrated. I think that the world is comprised of factions, and America also. And I think that to the extent that the Israel lobby is mad at Tucker, it's because Tucker is coming from a different faction, not necessarily of a Jewish cabal or something, but a different elite faction.

I think he's with the intelligence community. That's where his dad comes from. That's who his friends are. And initially, Tucker, the way that me and Tucker started having beef is because I was attacking his buddy, Joe Kent. who was running for Congress and that guy was also in the CIA and Tucker came out really hard against me

basically out of revenge because I made this guy lose his race and so Tucker was working behind the scenes with these other really spooky fedded up people like Max Blumenthal accusing me of being the Fed which is ironic this happened a few years ago so I think that what Tucker and Candice are

maybe Tucker, I don't know what Candace's deal is she seems a little nutty lately but I think what Tucker's deal is is he seems to be something like the pressure release valve because I'll never forget this. He added a remark at Turning Point over the summer, and it was one of those blink and you miss it type things. If you weren't paying attention, you wouldn't catch it. But he was talking about Jeffrey Epstein. This was at Turning Point S.A.S. And he said, everybody in Washington, D.C. knows that Epstein was with Israeli intelligence. He goes, everybody knows that. He says, but nobody will say it. Why? He

we have to say that Epstein was in Mossad. Because if we don't, the only people that will be saying it are those subterranean actually hateful anti-Semites. Now, if you pick that apart, what does that mean? What is he really saying there? He's saying, if we deny the obvious, which is that Epstein was with Israeli intelligence. We lose credibility because it's obvious and then we look like liars like we're covering it up. He said, and in the event that we lose our credibility, the people that will earn credibility are the people talking about Jewish power, the Israel lobby, etc. And we can't concede legitimacy or credibility or the narrative to them. Now, there's a word for this. It's called the limited hangout. It's a sci-op, which is to say we have to make,

strategically some admissions. We have to say some of the truth to keep the legitimacy, to keep the credibility, keep people's trust. And if we can maintain their trust, they won't go all the way off the reservation. So we'll make sort of like a tactical admission and then they won't go and reject the whole system. And so I heard that statement. I said, that's a really weird but also intentional and precise thing to say. But if you're not tapped in, if you're not paying attention, you'd think he's saying, Epstein was Mossad. Oh, Tucker's based. But what he's really saying is we strategically have to say that. Because if we don't, then we look like we're in on it and they are. Yeah. The whole Epstein thing, I mean, recently they came back, this is the frustration

that I think the normal person has is it goes from like, everyone knows is the problem to we have all the stuff we're going to release it to it's a democratic hoax to okay now we're going to release some more information that we now and then you know you have cash fatale being there being like with what we have now we there's no one else connected this guy's just acting alone and he's selling kids to no one and now and now they're like yeah we're going to release the all of it now and then there and then you have this i don't know the speaker whoever the johnson guy saying that like oh it's it's going to be a threat to national security if you release all this so we got to like look it over then we're going to wait for trump to sign it and now they're saying we're going to release it but

we're going to, like, take some stuff out again. Do you think they ever, ever let that out fully? Never. And I would assume it doesn't even exist because Epstein was originally arrested in 2005. That's where all the files are from. But beyond beyond the files existing and like, because there had to have been names in there, there's plenty of people to go and speak to and say, yo, you were involved in this somehow. You funded this.

the likes what like all these people how are they those people just they're able to go like this they're being protected and mike johnson said specifically so first of all they did not want these epstein files to get out obviously it was thomas massy that led the effort to get this discharge petition in the house to force a vote there's a way that they did so the timeline of it is that trump gets elected and the voters are saying okay release the epstein files and they did that stunt with the binder and they came out with their binders and it was a photo op and people said yeah no put them online like don't give them to jack poseobic and scott presler put them online which they then did and people said this is bull we have these files already so then pan bond he says well

they're on my desk i'll release them later yes then they come out and say oh no they don't exist they're not real there's only laugh blah blah blah blah it's just a child sexual abuse material so then this was in july thomas massey said well i'll force the House of Representatives to vote on a bill that will compel the Department of Justice to release them. They shut down Congress early. Mike Johnson took the summer recess early, and they shut down the business of Congress to prevent this from happening. They come back into session. What happens? Government shutdown. Major battle over. That goes on for 45 days. Then they returned. This was just a couple weeks ago. And Thomas Massey says,

all right, here it is, the discharge petition. And they get Marjorie Green, Nancy May, Lauren Bobert to vote on it. Trump calls all of them to a meeting in the Oval Office. I think Lauren Bobert came. And it's Trump, Vance, Rubio. It's all the bigwigs. And they say, listen, do not vote for this. Do not bring it to the floor for a vote. And she refused. And so it was only in the final hour then that Trump finally relented a day before the vote happened. That Trump said, all right, all right, all right. We'll release it. And, but so it went to the floor for a vote in the House.

And Mike Johnson said, the speaker, he said, we have to amend the bill because if we don't, we are not going to be able to protect the political system. Like, that's an actual quote. Yeah, that's insane. Which, and what's the implication? If we find out what's in them, the political system will collapse because they were all on the island. Yeah. And, you know, and that is a good thing.

nothing, actually. Because if the people that were on the island are running the government, they need to be exposed and destroyed. Like, they need to be put in jail. So, uh, but they gave the game away. Pam Bondi, Trump, Johnson, they're never going to release the names, the files. But if you think, and you think they don't exist, then why, why do they pretend, why do they keep doing this, this theatrical shit? Because there, even though I think there's nothing, you're not going to find anything damning in there. You're not going to find like, a, video of a politician having sex with a kid. Like, I don't think that exists.

It was probably destroyed if it did exist. But it's like the emails. They released about 20,000 of Epstein's emails. And it's Trump and Epstein deeply implicated in this. Like Epstein is saying, yeah, it was just me and Trump and the girls were there. And so even though, like, you can't bring Trump to court over that, it still suggests that he's involved. And so I think that's probably why they don't.

It's more like it suggests this. though it's not going to be actionable. I see. Well, okay, there's, I want to bring up something you said earlier about just the sort of total control. You don't think it's just from one angle. You think there's different factions, right? That is, that's, it seems like that, that is, that kind of, maybe not to everyone is

obvious, but it, when I think about it, logically, it has to be, right? It can't just be Jewish people controlling everything. So there's different groups, right? I saw a clip of you from 2019 and you were talking about, this may get a little weird, but you were talking about, you were talking about adrenachrome. And you were talking about,

you're like, yeah, it's 16 times more powerful than DMT. And you were like, and when people did DMT, they both took DMT and they saw sort of the same things, which means it's not here, but it's sort of like it's different plane. and you're you're referencing then like vampires and all this stuff and i kind of want to your opinion on that stuff now like do you think it's like you know everyone these these ideas around satanists and people worshiping moloch and freemasons and all these different groups

do you think these things are still existing uh yeah i do i really do and i i think that here's the thing like demons are real i want to talk about this yeah yeah as a catholic We believe, you know, and it's in the Bible. It says we fight not against flesh and blood, but powers and principalities from other realms, from other dimensions, you might say. So as Catholics, we're very clear. Angels and demons are real. And really, demons are angels. Demons are fallen angels. They're entities that have form, but not substance. So they're not material, but they possess intellect and will.

And there are good ones, and then they're the ones to join Satan. And they're in the world. And this is the source of temptation, this is a source of protection, like they are real. And I do believe that, and I don't have evidence for this, but I suspect that at the highest levels, there is, like, occult, there are occult practices. And specifically, when you look at, like, let's talk about, like, what the Freemasons are. Yeah. When you get into some of the free Masonic rituals, do you know who the master builder is that they

worship? It's King Solomon from the Bible. because King Solomon built the temple. That's what Mason's are. They're builders. They're the guild of masons. And so when they do their, if you go to a Masonic Lodge, they do this elaborate ceremony about Solomon

because he got the blueprint, basically, the dimensions for the temple from God. And what Solomon did as the king of Israel is he had all of the different desert tribes from the Middle East come to the kingdom of Israel and made Israel very rich. They would come and do trade and pay homage to Israel. But what Solomon did is he started to pay homage to their deities.

So they would come from all the different Middle Eastern kingdoms with their own deities, probably demons. And Solomon would basically give sacrifices maybe or worship those demons. That's ultimately why God punished him. And so that is what the Masons are involved in. It's sort of like it is heavily involved with demons. It's based on Jewish mysticism. The other element, you could say, nobody talks about this, but Jews in the world are very mystical.

There's a very longstanding mystic tradition. People don't realize this, but you have Jews, and they read the Talmud, and the Talmud is just like a legal code. So they have, like, tons of books, and it tells you, like, how to brush your teeth and, like, what to eat and, like, rules for living your life. But there's another aspect of Judaism, which is very mystical. It's called Kabbalah. Yeah. And that is something that is very much a part of their theology and very much a part

of their religion. And Kabbalism is kind of where all of the occult springs from. Like, if you get into Alistair-Kroly, if you get into the Masonic stuff, the Illuminati, it all really comes from Kabbala. It all comes from, like, the Zohar. It all comes from those, let's say, hermeneutics about the book of Genesis, about the books of Moses. And so I do think that especially like some of these Jewish groups are involved in, Kabbalistic, like certainly they're inspired

by Kabbalistic ideas and practices. And I also think that even the non-Jewish ones are influenced by that too. So I do think that goes on at the highest levels. Yeah, because, you know, when I look at it, there's the amount of money and the amount of power and the amount of control that, you know, the highest powers have, it just seems like why, why go to the extent of harming other human life so much just for more money? It almost like makes you, because I'm, I'm, I would consider myself, I grew up Catholic. I would consider myself Christian. I'm not really big in organized religion because I think that was, in my opinion, that's one of the like, I hate to say it. I hate to, I hate to talk about it this way, but it seemed to be like the first thing that was able to

coerce people into what humans at the time wanted, humans that realize we could recognize that we can make this organization, whatever it is, the Vatican, all these things. And we can tell people that this is what we need to do. And I just look at the Vatican, I'm like, they have all this money. And their mission is like to make the world better because they're coming from this Catholic standpoint, but they just have tons of money. They don't pay taxes. It's like, so I felt out of like, I guess rhythm with religion in general.

The point that I'm trying to make is it can't just be money and power. Like there's some, there has to be something sinister behind the need for more or the complete lack of care of like certain people's lives versus others. It doesn't feel like it is just money. Like when I look at it, there's no way. Yeah. No, there's definitely more to it. And anybody that's ever been in D.C. will tell you that.

Washington, D.C. is just like a deeply evil place. There is something demonic about it. And there's something demonic about the people. Like, and I know a lot of people in D.C., they tell me it's like swingers and orgies. And you got to realize it's like this because the people there, they're involved in like machinations, scheming, destroying people, lying to the public all the time, like a craven lust for. for power. It's like the people that are in politics are among the most wicked in the world,

and it goes hand in glove. You have like your regular sins, like the weird sexual stuff that goes on in D.C. all the way up to, you know, maybe there's something supernatural. Maybe there's something occult there. So I really do believe that the higher up the ladder you go, it does go beyond, let's say, avarice. It goes beyond greed. It goes beyond the usual kind of stuff. And it gets into something really sinister. I'm a huge believer in that. Yeah. Do you think that could ever, because it does feel like good versus evil. Do you think it ever, I hate to say this, but it seems like in a lot of ways evil is sort of winning. Like, do you think it switches? I think it's in a constant flux. But over time, evil has been winning.

Like, let's be very clear. The arc of history is long. And let's say that for the last 500 years, Evil has definitely been winning. Yeah. Because you had a time once where, and I am a follower of organized religion, I'm Catholic. You know, there was a time when Europe was controlled by the Catholic Church, excuse me, and by Christian monarchs. Now, and what has happened over the past 500 years is that the authority of the church was overthrown in the Reformation, which plunged Europe into these religious wars. You know, at one time it was all Catholics, and then it became a war of all Catholic. versus all Protestants. And these were like the prefigurement of the world wars because they were so

intense and so broad in their scope. And then after that, you had the revolutions. You had the revolution in France. You had the revolution in America. And they overthrew the kings. And so in the late 18th century, you had like every country in Europe was a monarchy except for one. Now there are no monarchies. All the monarchies were overthrown. Now we have all these democracies. Yeah. Democracies that are totally corrupted by money, totally corrupted by lobbying, you know, these other interests. And now we have a society that's just like does not bear any resemblance to the civilization from even 100 years ago. And it seems like every century, more authority, which is really of a moral variety, moral authority, political authority, the natural law, you could say some

sense like the authority of nature. All of that has been totally degraded. And now, you have a situation where, you know, where is the order? Where is the moral code? Where is the law? It seems like the law of the land now is due as thou wilt, which is the demonic axiom of the occultists. But that's the thing that's frustrating. Like through religion, when I look, you just look back in history and it was,

it just always seemed to be, let's use this thing and force it on other people. Or if they're not accepting of it, kill them, change their language, change their, you know, demographic over time, right? Because, like, we're going to take the, you know, America being taken. And it just seems like it's always been used. And this is why I think I'm just so burnt out in the idea of organized religion and, like, everything that comes of it. Because it's like as if man took, for example,

when I think about Catholicism and God and Jesus Christ and what that means to be like a Christian, none of those things would align with, let's kill those people because they don't agree with us. and so when I look at religion I'm like that's what religion has done for so many years it's they've they've they've taken lands or they've taken places or they've taken power because they believe they know better than the other people who are there because they're not agreeing with them and it's like that do that is that what god wants is like that's not

a godly thing that's not a Jesus Christ thing that's a that's a human nature greed thing of I want power I want control because I believe I should have it over you you know what I'm saying? Yeah. And so I guess my question to you is sort of in regards to your perspective on, you know, this nationalistic idea about America needs to be Christian or Catholic? I mean, I don't think it'll ever be fully Catholic, at least not any time soon. I think we should just be Christian for now.

Yeah. But so, you know, there's the, for your idea, sometimes when it comes to like immigration and all stuff, and I want to talk about one of these Trump tweets, he just tweeted like yesterday or today some wild shit about like we're going to stop completely you know complete third world immigration i'm going to ask your perspective on that but i guess when i think of sometimes about the one thing that holds me up with your conversation around it is and i think you had a conversation with destiny about this um as much as i disagree with 99% of what that guy says he did make one point about your sort of contention with jewish people and judy

and them sort of controlling, you know, the world or America, right, versus your perspective of wanting Catholics or Christianity to be the main driving force, what's really different there? If, like, you're then, you're doing what they're trying to do, but you want to do what you're trying to do on the opposite spectrum. Right. So what's the core difference? Well, they are two different religions. And, you know, it's sort of, sort of like saying, okay, two people have two different opinions. So no one's right. You know what I mean? Like, you know, or there's two sides in a team game, you know? I guess the reason why I phrase that question that way was because everything else we just said about the sort of detriment of the, you know, the controlling religious factions in history that have been just like, if you're not with me, you're an enemy and we're going to kill you, we're going to take your stuff. This is us now. Learn our religion, learn our language. it's it's in a way the same thing that you know has caused all the massive the most the biggest problems in the world right so i'm not saying that like today if if catholics were in charge of

america would they just then like kill you know people somewhere else right or kill people here but there there seems to be like when we when we're incorporating religion into at least what america is from what i understand constitutionally like when they originally did it was like this needs to be separate we need to separate we need to separate these things because we're going to have so many different people here because that's what America is. And then your perspective is, well, I want it to be this way. Well, I mean, for starters, the founding fathers never intended that we were going to have diversity. You know, when America was founded, it was almost all English Protestants for the most part, except

there were some Catholics in Maryland, but it was basically all English Protestants. And in Federalist number two by John Jay, these are the papers that it was John. J. Alexander Hamilton, I think James Madison, they wrote 50-some papers in favor of the Constitution to adopt the Constitution. And in the second Federalist paper, John Jay writes, he's very clear about this in the end. He said, God gave us this land one continent for one people with one language, one religion, with common characteristics from one place. Like, it's very clear. There's no diversity. And in the 1790 immigration law, one of the first laws, they said it's going to be white people moving here. In the election in 1800, Alexander Hamilton wanted to make it a law that

you could not run for office if you're not Christian to prevent Thomas Jefferson from becoming president because he wasn't really a Christian. And at the time of the founding, most of the colonies that became the states had like state-run churches, like they each had their own church that worked with the government. So, you know, our conception of America is formed out of the Civil Rights Act and in the civil rights era where you had the ACLU and the ADL and a lot of Jewish groups as well as a lot of pro-Black groups and MLK Jr. and the rest of them, they basically reconstituted America in the 60s where they said, actually, America's for everybody. America's about diversity and all the different races and religions hanging out.

But from 1600 until 1960, America was almost all white, all Christian, and you can look at like every president even. Abraham Lincoln did not want to free the slaves. That's not why he fought the Civil War. And Abraham Lincoln, before he died, was working vigorously to send all the freed slaves back to Africa. This was like a, and no one,

this is not talked about in history books, but Abraham Lincoln tried really hard. They had colonies in Liberia was one of them, and another colony in Central America. They tried to send all the freed blacks back because every president from Washington through to, you could say almost Harry Truman, they said that we never intended for whites and blacks

to live together with full social and legal equality. And I'm not arguing for that, but that is historically what they believed. Now it has, it is a matter of, fact that America's become diverse and racially integrated and, you know, the Constitution was changed a number of times. And we have to figure out, I think that we want to live in harmony. I like the words harmony, cooperation. I think the races should cooperate. And I want there to be peace and respect and dignity between the races. But we have to keep in mind that the Founding Fathers, when they devised the system, they did not devise it with a multiracial, religiously

pluralistic society in mind. That's not, and I don't think it works that way. I think it's very difficult to make self-governance work when you have a ton of different types of people living in a giant empire like we have. I think we kind of need to rethink that. I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying. And so you're saying that during the civil rights movement, that's when it really changed. Yeah, they fundamentally changed what America is. And who was driving that? It was a lot of, you know, it's not to blame the Jews, but like, It was a lot of Jewish groups with the black power movement. And the reason why, they say this very clearly.

In the turn of the last century, a ton of Jews moved to the United States from Eastern Europe. Around 1900, almost all of the world's Jews were living in Poland and Russia. They were living in the pale of settlement. And they fled because there was a lot of anti-Semitism in Russia under the Tsar, Alexander the 3rd, Nicholas II. And so a lot of the Jews came to the United States, and what they encountered was legitimate anti-Semitism. They couldn't get jobs. They couldn't go to university.

There were quotas. There was just like a lack of opportunity. And so the Jews got together as lawyers and judges and academics. And, you know, they also came from other parts of Europe, from Germany, from Central Europe, from England. And they said, we need to work together to advance equality for all people. Because if we have like a legal framework in the United States where discrimination is illegal, then we are free to ascend. We can move up the ladder. And so they formed up these groups like the American Jewish Congress, the American Jewish Committee, the ADL.

And these specifically lawyers and judges, they started to fight for anti-discrimination, for diversity, for all. You know, the idea of the melting pot came from a Jewish playwright, Israel Zangwell. He said, no, America's for everybody. And they said that they would join up with all immigrant groups and the black people too. And they were going to make a case for equality for everybody because if they fought discrimination generally, then they can bring all of the marginalized people on the same team against the white majority. And like the rising tide would lift everybody's boats, Jewish people included.

Right. And so the Jewish lawyers were a major force in the 50s, 60s, and 70s for all of it. affirmative action, uh, integration, desegregation, the civil rights law, the voting rights, all this kind of stuff. And don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of some of it. I'm not in favor of Jim Crow, but they forcibly integrated society. The other thing is they also supported mass migration. They fought against national origins quotas. Because, you know, in the 24 Immigration Act and other immigration laws, they said, we don't want all these Jews from Poland. And so, Jews fought to make it so that it didn't matter where you came from. You could come from Mexico,

you could come from Africa, you can come from China. We're not going to control immigration by your national origin. So, you know, when you think about this like beast in America on the left, which is DEI, affirmative action, mass migration, even the woke like BLM stuff, it all really proceeds from that. Yeah. When did this whole like white guilt thing become such a, such a pushed narrative. I think in the last 20 years is when it really, it's been around for a long time, but that's really when they made a huge push. And that's, you believe that's just from the, the idea that like, we could break this down so that then we can take control? Yes, 100%. And you want to know why? Because no other group has guilt. When George Floyd, when they kneeled on his neck,

and then everybody rioted, do black people have any guilt about that? Are black people? people hanging their heads in shame because of the crime that goes on everywhere? Are they saying, I'm so guilty that, you know, black people like O.J. Simpson killed that girl. We're so guilty that George Floyd robbed a pregnant woman. We're so guilty. No, they're not guilty for the sins of their, you know, racial colleagues. If you call them that, you know, for their fellow and the same goes for Jews. Are Jews guilty about what's going on in Gaza? Does Ben Shapiro hang his head in shame about the massacres in Lebanon, about the knock button. No, they're not guilty. They want us to be guilty. They want us to be guilty for things that happened 700 years ago. They want us to be

guilty about slavery, colonialism, racism, everything. And they're not guilty. And this is like moralizing their political interest, which is if white people feel guilty, then we will step aside and let them take our place on the boards of companies, in Congress, in the White House, wherever. And this is how they're getting us to voluntarily as white people give up America and say, here, we built this amazing, and I wouldn't even say we. I mean, the founding fathers, the founding stock, they built this incredible country. Now it's for all of you. Now it's for these 10 million people that came in under Joe Biden from Venezuela. Now it's yours. Yeah. No one would do that. So I'll give you, there's, I want to ask you this question.

How do you think they were able to do it so successfully because two things. I remember a point in time when if you just said, yo, like if I was describing, if I said there was a group of five people over there, one was black and I said the black guy and I'm a white guy, just saying that, people around me, you go, what, what do you mean, the black guy? It's like, no, the guy, the guy who's black, obviously. Like, it'd say there's 10 people there. There's one black person. I just identify and I say it's the black guy. I remember at one point, like, if you did that people, other white people would be like, whoa, what are you doing?

What are you saying? Why are you saying that? You mean African American. Like, you have to say this. It's correct. There's that one thing. And then there is the other one that they were able to do. And I want to ask you this question after.

It was like, if I just said, oh, that person's a Jew, that felt bad to say. How do you think they. got to the level of like consciously people go oh i shouldn't even say this because there's there's one thing to be like to shame like i mean i guess maybe that's the answer is the shame over time of like who you are and what your people did and what was in the past and there's that constant pressure or i don't know if it's the sort of the way they make movies or the way they they incorporate like that guilt into all that and you see it but i i i'm telling you i'm not like someone who subscribes to like oh because someone says this i have to feel this consciously but subconsciously

i still would feel that i still would be like i i remember saying like oh yeah the black guy and people everyone is just like oh how how do you think they created that that that subconscious guilt i think it's conditioning it's like it's like because we all see what happens to racists. If you're racist, and growing up, I mean, I grew up fairly recently, and I remember if you were racist, that was like the worst thing a human being could possibly be. It was like, it was backwards, evil, not cool. They basically created this like Pavlovian response with this stigmatization of any talk of race at all. Like, for example, Kramer, Michael Richards, remember when he went to the comedy club and he said he's the end where blah blah and look at what they did

of this guy it was like a it was like a Stalin level show not in a good way Stalin level don't like that part it was like a show trial the way they dragged this guy out making him cry and apologize i don't know what i said and that's why i say it was like 20 years ago because i remember that was maybe like the beginning of it where it got weird because it's like he did like a comedy set and it was in poor taste I don't think anyone would argue that, but it wasn't the end of the world, and this guy got ruined for it. And it was like, that was just a new reality that we lived in, where it's like, that word is off limits. And racial humor gradually became off limits.

And Trayvon Martin came around in 2008, and you couldn't talk about that. It was, oh, this poor guy with the Skittles and Arizona iced tea in his hoodie. And so it was just these, like, big, these like news media related events. it was in entertainment, it was in Hollywood. And I also think they captured the younger generation. I think it was really with the kids that they programmed because then they became the foot soldiers in the universities. And, you know, people think that that happened later than it did.

It was even in the 90s and early 2000s that young people would go to college and get brainwashed with this Howard Zinn people's history of America where they got programmed to believe. No, the latest intellectual trend is that, Columbus was genocidal, and the founders were racist and evil. And they then became the professional managerial class. They became, you know, in those white-collar positions.

And I think they started to then promulgate these new attitudes. Yeah, they started becoming the police about it. Right. And you had human resources, departments. So basically, in the private sector, proceeding from government, from Hollywood, in the media, just this new attitude started to come out, which was like, If you're white, you, and if you're black, you're a saint, and we're never going to talk about race. Because it wasn't like that, really, in mainstream culture in the 90s.

It just kind of set in the 2000s. The frustrating thing was like, I remember feeling that way growing up and being like, well, this, the whole time, I'm like, the double standard in this is insane, where it's like, but it's okay in every sense to be disrespectful and be racist to me. And I almost felt like you couldn't even defend it. You couldn't even, like, fight back. Right, right. As a white person.

And, and I think that's, I think we're, I think, you know, you're, you're an example. Like I said earlier about why people are so enamored and, like, in love with you in a way. I think it's because you just completely stood, like, above that and was like, oh, I don't give a. Mm-hmm. And again, I, like, I have conversations with Mexican people, black people, other white people, Indian people, like, they are like, yeah, that it is, it is, it has been. thing like it is not a it's not a two-way street right and so i i think we're getting sort of to the to the end of that um which i think is cool because i think anyone should be able to be proud

of who they are whether you're jewish you're white you're mexican you're black you should be able to be proud but it shouldn't be like we could all be proud but you can't right that's the thing that like i think people are just really fed up with and i mean that's why you got you garnered such a such a large audience because i think there's there's there's definitely a lot of white people out there are like, yeah, why, why is it this way? Right. Well, and I think that what a lot of people like, even that, because I do have a lot of non-white fans, a lot of people talk about that, Hispanics, Muslims, blacks, like, they like the show. And because they respect that I stand up for myself even as a white person. Yeah. That's, I think, because nobody likes

white liberals. Nobody hates, like, self-hating. You know what I mean? Yeah. When like a self-hating piece of white liberal gets up and says, I'm sorry for my racism. I'm like doing the work. Even black people are like, man, this guy. Even they hate him. They're not like, oh, you're one of the good ones. Thank you so much for doing your part. They hate them. They have like contempt for them. And that's because on some level, even if you're a white person that is guilty and sorry and you want to promote the black and brown bodies, you know, people of color, It's like they don't have respect for people that don't stand up for themselves, that won't take their own side.

They have more respect even for white supremacists because they say, at least a white supremacist is standing up for himself. Yeah. Like on some level, there's that. Yeah, and we know what they believe. Right, because there's less just, I'm doing this to please someone else. And they'll never say it, but they respect someone that is, like, there's something deeply odious and hateable on a fundamental,

level about a person that goes against their own tribe, that goes against their own kind. It's the same reason, like, nobody criticizes black people harder than black people when they become like an uncle Tom. Because what are they saying? They're saying you're a race trader. Yeah. Even if they're right, even if they agree. Because a lot of black people are extremely conservative, actually.

Yeah, for sure. But if a black person goes out and becomes a Republican, that's seen as working with the white people. So they say, you're with the white people? Or even if they marry a white person, they say, you marry a white person. I say you marry a white girl, your own people. And so every group kind of in it, you know, it's like they say, oh, well, a white liberal has taken the side of blacks and we're black, so I guess that's good.

But they say, oh, but you're not taking your own side. Isn't that kind of contemptible on some level? I think even subconsciously, whether or not you're willfully thinking that, I think that's, that happens. Totally. It's a human nature thing. 100%. And the important caveat is you can take your own side.

Everyone knows this without hating everybody else. Yeah. I don't hate anybody. And I think people know that. When I make jokes and I say the N-word or whatever, people, I'm not yelling like, hey, get out of the pool. You know, that's our water fountain. Right, right. No, they know it's playful.

And, you know, that's why I like to use words like, we're not hateful, violent, cruel. We want harmony, cooperation. At the same time, I do want to run with my own people. I feel comfortable with my people. I'm white. My family's white. I like to be around white people. They're my people.

Just like black people like to be around black people. It doesn't mean I don't have black friends or I would never have or I wouldn't let my kids play with black kids. But it is to say there's something about the sense of identity, about being with your own, about being at home, having your culture, that everyone I think can understand. And it's not to the exclusion or to the detriment of other people. Yeah, absolutely. is your dad is Mexican he's half half Mexican yeah I had a we're going to talk about this like tweet and stuff and but I want to ask you about your dad if if your dad was illegal did you get it would you want him deported no no he'd be he's my dad so no I would betray Trump

I hide my dad in the basement yeah yeah yeah valid valid I dude it's so funny because like most of my closest friends are Mexican I grew up that way I just my my whole life it seemed to be like those are like my best friends just growing up and yeah i have a lot that i would protect as well for sure yeah yeah um did you see this tweet i did okay what i want your take on the idea that he's he's permanently pauses a weird way to say it but he wants to pause immigration completely from third world countries the other thing i find really funny about this is the fact that he called tim waltz retarded yeah this this to me it's so interesting because like there's this we're getting further and further on this line of like politically correct

and like no one's really doing it anymore to some extent right um which i was going to ask you too like i think i asked you i don't maybe that was it off podcast that's time but would you ever want to be president i mean yeah but i don't think that'll happen because because of things you've said yeah i think i'm too unpopular but i don't know i mean i see stuff like this and i the grab her by the pussy, all those different things. Yeah, Trump is kind of changing it. Yeah. Like, I mean, think, I'm not saying right now, but in some years, it'd be like, you wouldn't, to me, it's not such a far-fetched idea. Yeah, not anymore, maybe 20 years down the line. Would you run for president? If I could win, yeah. If I thought I could win, I would. Yeah, I want to be in that

cabinet, dude. You're going to, we're going to talk about the America First Foundation in the second, which reminds me of that. But what's your take on this idea that he's going to permanently pause, interesting, permanently pause immigration from third world countries. I think it's about time. I think I really support that because, you know, people don't even realize the scope of it. We've brought in like 60 million people in 30 years, which is, I mean, this is a country of 350 million. And we brought in 60 million in a few decades and all from China, India, Mexico, Northern Triangle, Philadelphia. all from non-white countries. And it is such that the country was, in 1990, 50% of the

U.S. population descended from the founding stock at the time of the founding of America. Think about that. Half the country had roots to George Washington. Now we're like 60% white. Half of the births are not white and half of them are white. And what is basically happening is the country is fundamentally changing. And it was one way. It was Frank Sinatra and Tom Cruise and Clint Eastwood. And now it's becoming Bad Bunny and Jason Mamoa. And it's completely different.

And that's reflected in even the quality of life. New York City, L.A., Miami. I mean, I love these cities. I go to them all the time. I like to be there. But they're becoming more chaotic. They're becoming more violent, more disorderly. there's a lack of a sense of togetherness of community.

There's this feeling that it's like you're in Star Wars. You go on the subway and everybody's speaking a different language. Everybody has a different culture. You picture you're going into the bar. Yeah, we're all the different sort of like. Yeah, the different aliens and characters. The robot. Well, no joints.

Yeah, yeah. And it's like on some level, it's okay if some cities are international and cosmopolitan. I think people like that. but what people hate is the idea that every city in America is going to be this way and there's no refuge that feels like America that is baseball and apple pie and white people even than churches and Christianity everywhere is going to be like New York City everywhere is going to be playing soccer and it's Duwali and it's all this other stuff and so I think that at the minimum at the bare minimum we just need to stop immigration for

like the next 20 years. And we can have a conversation about opening it up later. But we've, in terms of our fair share, if you call it charity, if you call it, you know, for the good of the immigrants or for the good of the economy,

for the labor benefits, we have done more than enough at this point. Do you think it's just the fact that they're from these other countries, the third world countries or whatever? Or do you think it's just, because you know you talk about like these cities kind of going to shit in certain ways, right?

You think it's just because they're from these other places and they're not assimilating? Or is it just because there's just so many more people? Because let's say, for example, it was theoretically, it was all, in this case, white people came in. And that was the increase. Wouldn't it still be somewhat chaotic in that it's just so many more people. So to police, to deal with, to house, to, like, isn't that part of it as well? No, no. I think the uncomfortable reality.

is that race matters very deeply because, you know, there's this idea that if we assimilate eventually someone that a long time ago came from Nigeria or from wherever, one generation is going to pop out and be indistinguishable from an Anglo who came here in the 1600s, or virtually indistinguishable. But I don't think that ever happens because we come from a long line of ancestors. And what is transmitted from one generation to the next, It's not just the kinds of foods you like, it's your mannerisms. It's the way you behave. It's Amerindians, like the Native Americans, they still can't handle alcohol.

That's genetic, you know, and even like you're Italian, I'm Italian, we're still different, actually, than like wasps. There's still like a deep cultural divide, even as whites. Ostensibly, we're both white. I would say it's, in theory, a different race. They're Nordic, we're Mediterranean. But you encounter northern Europeans and we're so different still. And there's proximity. Like we're from a Christian civilization.

We're from the same continent. We're like genetically similar. But we're still different. Then you talk about people coming from India. They have a different alphabet. They never develop monotheism. You know, they're polytheistic. They have a different language.

Like, everything is different. And I think that in 100 years, those people are still going to be meaningfully Indian or Chinese or black people are still meaningfully African, 400 years in. So it's the assimilation thing that the problem that you realize in. Yeah, because I don't think you're ever going to achieve full assimilation. We can achieve a level of it where they're speaking English and they kind of have some of our customs, but they're still going to be hyphenated. They're still going to be Indian American, African American.

And that's okay. but you get to a certain amount of that, and then there is no America. Yeah. So what do you think the fix is? Do you think it's something like this? Yeah. I think we just got to shut down immigration immediately.

Interesting. All my Mexican homies. Well, they're here, so they made it in. So to my next point, right? So they're here. But what about this, you know, all the stuff that's going on with ice and they're like kicking out these people?

I just feel like there's a better way. I feel like get rid of all the criminals, of course. I'm never arguing that, but I know so many people that, like, really do contribute. Yeah. So how do you play that game? As far as illegal aliens are concerned, I mean, here's the thing. Like, we had 10 million come in under Biden, 10 million illegals in four years. Yeah.

You got to get all those people out, you know. Like, the idea that 10 million people come in and like, oh, now they're here forever. Like, Biden wasn't enforcing the laws. they slipped in. Oh, now we have to keep them forever. No, that's ridiculous. Like, that's a population the size of New York City, and now they're our problem. And they are our problem, because why do you think they came here? They came from Venezuela, for the most part, fleeing the Maduro regime. Yeah. They don't have skills. Like, they're not coming here at college degrees. They don't speak English. They don't have any capital. What are they going to contribute? They're going to

buy an iPhone and an e-bike, and they're going to be DoorDash drivers, and now we got to pay for their health care, their education. Their kids, No, we don't, we're not doing that. And I would say, you know, we maybe have 30 to 40 million illegals here. Let's get all the violent criminals out. Let's get the 10 million that came in under Biden. Maybe you do a little more than that. It's maybe not practical to deport every single illegal alien, but a lot of them are going to have to go back.

It is like a huge problem. And we have to stop being the stupid country here. What is the obligation that these people have to obey our laws, to embrace our culture. What is the obligation of their government to take care of their own people? Because these illegals that come here, I understand what you're saying. They're not bad. Like I know illegal aliens and they're good people. Like they work hard. They're religious. And a lot of them love America. I get it. I have sympathy for them. That being said, it's a major imposition on the United States from a financial and economic point of view, from a cultural point of view. You know, they bring

their culture over here and they take over entire neighborhoods and they're going to have tons of kids. But the Latinas. The Latinas are bad. They're bad. They can stay. They can stay. And they got a good culture like they're, you know, their home takers. It's good, you know? I don't know. I'm just no, they are. And look, I mean, I get for saying this on my show. Hispanics are not the worst ones to have. They are very, you know, because they're family oriented people. They're deeply, they're more religious than the Americans. Yeah, in a lot of ways. You know, I used to go to church out here when I was working for yay. I lived here for a couple months, actually in the valley. And every mass was stacked from like morning until 7 o'clock at night, packed house.

Yeah. You never see that in white neighborhoods. Yeah. And it sounds like anti-white to say, but it's just true. So, I mean, they're there are good people, but it's just the volume. You know, how many, how many can we really absorb? Yeah. I mean, it's sort of like what's happening with Europe right now, right? Right, with the Muslims, yeah. Yeah, I saw, I saw Tucker and, uh, and, uh, Pierce Morgan talking about it. It's, it's interesting. Tucker, he's, he's more and more speaking about the things that you talk about. I don't know if you've noticed that. Totally. Um, but he's, he started like, I think in that recent interview, he's, he's talking about white people and like, you know, the, the, the, the erasure. The erasure. And it's not the right word,

but the extinction or the, the, the, the, the, it being gone from there. And he's having this whole conversation with peers. I guess the thing is, I guess the fear is that just going to end up happening here entirely as well. Exactly. Yeah, because it's sad. It's like when you, you know, I saw this TikTok earlier today and it's like, oh, you know, POV, your culture's going away. I was at a Paul McCartney concert on Monday. And you think about England and you think about the double-decker buses and the Beatles and you think, you know, and the idea then in 50 years it's going to be all Muslims. It's going to be all like Arabs and Africans and Americans and Muslims, like there's going to be no England. And that's, that's like the, we cry when like a

Siberian tiger goes extinct, when the polar bears are going to die off. This is a race of people that are not going to exist. Yeah. There's going to be no Germany, no Italy, no France, no Paris, no England, no America. What's America going to be? A collection of little India, little Somalia, little Haiti, little El Salvador. That's, that's dumb. It's like, how do you really stop it, though, because it's like it's a birth rate thing too, right? Because it comes down to the fact that they just have more babies statistically as well. It's almost as if it's an undeniable future in the current statistics of birth rates. It's like you can't really even avoid it in the long run at the end of the day.

Well, the problem is that extinction is irreversible and some of what brings it on is an invasive species. You know, so like what's killing the elephants, it's poachers. And what's happening to America is that the fertility rate is declining. And that doesn't seem to be caused by diversity because Korea has an abysmal birth rate and they don't have mass immigration. Neither does Japan. And it's the same issue. It seems to be a symptom of modernity, which is that when women get educated and go to work, they defer childbirth, then they have fewer kids. And maybe it's a symptom of industry and technology.

Like, who know? There's actually not a settled answer on why the birth rate is declining globally. But what happens when you bring in mass migration is that when white people are outnumbered in a democracy, then they're outvoted and then they don't have power. And so it's not like, yeah, if there's no immigration, America will have problems because our population will shrink, but it'll still be white people. If you bring in a million, a billion immigrants, in a hundred years, it's just going to be Indians and Hispanics and Chinese running the government. And then they're probably going to hurt white people's political interests. Can white people rebound as a minority? It's much tougher.

I see. I see. So it's on the, on the piercing a little bit, you're going to do that interview with him? Yeah. How do you think it's going to go? Do you think it's going to be a hit piece? It's going to be an ambush. Well, it can't even call it an ambush.

He's just going to, he's going to go. really hard on me, I think. Because there's no surprise. It's not really a sneak attack. Do you know if it's going to be live? I don't think it'll be live. Okay. I'm definitely watching that.

Yeah, that'll be intense. I mean, he, he, he, he kind of flip-flops a lot. Like, he's, he's always sort of up and down. Like, I don't, I don't know. You think it really would be that, like, of an ambush? Yeah, very much so. Just because of everything you've seen of him or? Yeah, I've seen his interviews with Dan Bilsarian with Yang.

And he's, he really, he's going to put the screws in me on anti-Semitism and the, you know, all that. Yeah. Do you, do you ever, I mean, you don't seem to give a, you don't seem to shy away from any of it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. When are you getting on Joe Rogan? I don't know. I don't know if he'll, it's kind of a big risk to have me on.

I think maybe after what happened to Tucker, maybe he's less willing to do it. I don't know. I feel like he wouldn't care that much. Not he wouldn't care about any sort of like negative repercussions, but like, I feel like he's just always been the guy that like he's willing to have those open conversations no matter what. That's true. He did have Alex Jones on very early on when it was super controversial. So I don't know. I think that that would be probably one of the biggest interviews on the internet. It'd be huge. Yeah. I don't know if he would do it. I mean, I've heard some whispers that he, you know, he might be interested in doing it. But what do you think keeps, I mean, I guess the answer is just the whole anti-Semitism thing.

but I feel like that's becoming less and less of like a powerful move to keep people away. Like, what do you think would keep him away? Um, I mean, at the same time, I'm, I'm pretty controversial. And so it's just always a concern you're going to alienate the audience because I do have a certain reputation. And in fairness, I have said a lot of things that when taken out of context, make me seem like I'm the worst person ever about women, about black people, about Jews, about everything. You know, you also want to be respectful to the audience and not bring on somebody that you think is going to be totally offensive. Yeah.

I just can't, I can't, I can't, I can't understand it. But at the same time, it's like, shouldn't that be what we're all doing any? Like, no one agrees with everyone on everything. Right. Right. We all know that. We should be able to have these conversations with people that even if they, what you think they're saying is wrong, you still have the conversation with them. because like that that's like the worst this whole cancel thing and the way that they've tried to

frame you to like further like okay let's push him out push him out it's like that only makes what i feel like what you're saying more almost like powerful and more more important to everyone to be like well why are they all doing this to him at this point still because it's just like why as humans are we deferring to like no no no just don't talk like don't don't don't talk to him about it don't have any don't understand any perspective don't understand anything he's just bad that seems so like opposite of what you would do that's just assuming that makes me when you talk about the audience you don't want to offend them that's then just assuming your audience is just stupid and they're dumb and they can't make their own decisions and they can't

come to their own conclusions and they're just a bunch of stupid sheep right that seems more disrespectful to like avoid having someone on than having them on in general in my perspective and maybe that's just my perspective but I think avoiding that, I mean, hell, at this point, like, I would say a large portion of your popularity was because they tried to avoid you for so long. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I feel the same way. And obviously, I have the controversial opinions, but I talk to people I disagree with, and I'm curious about their ideas. I talk to Sneco, he's a friend of mine. Yeah. He's Muslim. We debate about religion all the time. And, you know, and I've had people on my show on the past.

that I've disagreed with. I had Laurel Lumer on my show, many, a few times actually. And we used to be pretty good friends despite our significant disagreements. And to me, if somebody is saying something that I don't understand,

like I have no idea, what do you mean you believe this or that? I want to listen. I want to hear them explain it. And, you know, with an open mind. I guess where it comes from is the idea that some people are not willing to have their minds changed

or they're not willing to maybe put their ideas up to the test. They don't want their ideas to be disproven. Me, I'm concerned with being correct. So if someone disagrees, I have to assume maybe there's something I don't know. And if there is, I want to know what it is. I want to correct my opinion. Well, that's the more human reaction. Yeah. I think that's an openness. Because it's somewhat human to be maybe protective of your, you know what I mean? yeah i guess you're right yeah it seems like that's the that's the more elevated position 100% yeah and that's why when i think about this you know the whole beef you had with the ben shapiro

thing is like if this guy stands so strongly and believes that you're such a bad person then he should be able to sit down with you and prove to his audience and prove to everyone that you are such a bad person right through debate through conversation through through ideas through debunking whatever he thinks you're saying is wrong why does he not do it like why are you not doing it you know i I mean, for them, it's like, for them in particular, someone like Joe, I think, is a good guy. He seems like he's legit.

But someone like Shapiro, what it is with that question, they don't even want people to think that it's up for debate. Because their message is like, of course we support Israel. They don't even want to entertain the notion that you can't support Israel. They set the table in such a way where it's like, are we, going to support Israel absolutely or only 50% of the time. And so it's like they don't even, because a dialectic is created. If you have a debate with Shapiro and Flentis, then it's like, okay, America's going to vote. Text 1-1-1 for Shapiro and for, and they know that if you do that,

at the most, I'm going to win the debate and everyone's going to be with me. At the minimum, a good chunk are going to say, hmm, this guy's ideas are interesting. I think I like him, or I think I agree with some of it. They don't want to. that even to be entertained. So it's a lose, lose regardless of them. Right. I mean, it was like, sort of like that, you remember seeing the interviews, uh, I know Charlie Kirk did before he passed, rest in peace, um, with, uh, Pat Bed David. And then he did one with, um, Ben Shapiro. And he was talking about, you know, we got to actually question this stuff. Because I, you know, I've lived through COVID. I realized we got to question the government. I'm able to question the United States

government. Can't even question Israel. And then it was like, he raised his eye and he's like, what the fuck are you talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That moment was really interesting to me when I saw that. And I guess I don't want to get into conspiracy theories about all this like, you know, not how he died, who killed him, all this stuff. But your take on the whole Charlie Kirk thing, I thought was really interesting. And I think your audience thought of what's interesting, too, because they expected you to be like, of course, it's Israel. Right. Right.

Why did you defer to, like, wait and to see that, like, okay, let me look at this different. differently or not like because you didn't you didn't recognize those things to be like okay maybe this could lead it that direction that he's like somewhat and again I don't know what's true or not true versus these text messages that Candace is showing about like you know these donors they don't want to they're taking back money because I'm talking about these things and they're hard to deal with I don't know how much of that is like factual stuff right but I mean if that is factual stuff it in my head I go I'm not saying and I again I'm not I'm not conspiratorial saying that they did this or they didn't do this.

But I'm saying that it is an interesting piece that if they're, in my mind, I'm thinking at it logically, the one person who is their biggest sort of last bastion of like, this is their voice and he's standing with us is even questioning these things towards the end of his career in life, like, again, sadly, that they wouldn't, they would obviously not like that. Right.

Right. And then that's, I'll kind of finish with. this is that. And then as soon as he passed, like the first messaging around his passing was like he's, you know, Netanyahu's tweeting like he stood as a, you know, a lion for his, it's like, why are we, whether or not like they did it or not any of this, it's like they went and they turned his death into this like moment for Israel. Right. And so when I saw that, I was like, that's interesting. And you, you didn't see it that way. No, not at all. And I guess certainly, my point of view on this is colored by the fact that I had a rivalry with Charlie Kirk

for many years. Not even a rivalry like a straight up feud. We were in a war. And the center of it is that we were critical. And by we, I mean, me and all my followers were heavily critical of him for supporting Israel. He was pro-Israel his entire career. Yeah. From 2012 until 2025 um and that was really like he did a show in august a month before his passing and said nick fuentes is a is a reprehensible vile anti-semite he's he was like texting denesh de suza don't talk to this guy we've been fighting this guy for 10 years he's filth blah blah like he hated me call me vermin and so the idea that the Israelis killed him like at first glance i'm like he was their closest ally, like he was their top guy. They didn't kill their top guy.

It also was all circumstantial. Me, I'm willing to believe anything if it's based in evidence and reality. And I just saw no evidence. Initially, I was willing to believe a conspiracy because we had no idea what took place. He got shot. And that's all we knew. And so initially, I was thinking, is this a tactical force? Like, was this a professional. hit, are there going to be other hits? Is this one attack or is it going to be like a series of attacks? But then the guy turned himself in and we found out this was no professional job. There was no security there. They had 3,000 people, no security perimeter, no checkpoint. They didn't check IDs, tickets, nothing. It was wide open. So that's one. Two, the rooftop where

the guy positioned himself, the shooter, whoever it was, was accessible by a civilian, pedestrian walkway. So it's not like Thomas Crooks, where you had to bring a ladder and set it up and climb up. You walk up the steps and it's accessible to any pedestrian. Then they found the murder weapon in the woods.

They caught the guy in the ring camera. And so this went from, oh, it's a professional hit job. And people would say, you're telling me that some kid went up there and took him out. It's like, well, anybody could have. There was no perimeter.

Anyone could access the roof. How hard would it be if you even knew that this event was taking place to literally get a gun, walk up, take the shot, run away? Anyone could have done it. That's one. And then two, then we get all this evidence. We get the text messages. We get the ring camera, the Discord server. The guy turned himself in. But did they say the Discord thing wasn't real? But who said that? I guess Discord itself said that it wasn't, these messages never existed. Initially, Discord said the murder wasn't planned. But then they found that he left a note and said, oh, I'm sorry, I actually did it. But also, too, even the stuff you're describing as like why it wouldn't be them, anyone could do it, couldn't, if it was in, again, this is conspiratorial, right?

If it was in that realm of like, it's on our own guy, then wouldn't that be the notion that you'd want everyone to see? Oh, anyone could do it. Anyone could have done it. It's that guy. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, I mean, I guess the problem is, like, you could ask a ton of questions like that. Sure. And it could go anywhere, but we have to lead with the evidence. And the point is, like, I guess people started out with the assumption that, like, something was off about this one. You know, who could have done this? Who could have possibly done this?

And then when you look at the evidence, it's like, well, there isn't really a lot that's weird about it because there's been a lot of left-wing violence. And the left is very violent, and it's totally plausible that a left, Occam's razor would say that the suspect that turned himself in is the guy. And unless there's compelling evidence that something was strange or something was suspect or, you know, that it points in another direction, you have to say, okay, well, this is actually plausible. So did you see the stuff about the guy who stood up and like, was like, I did it. And then that guy was from some like 9-11 thing.

Like, you didn't see all that? Yeah, but I mean, even that. I mean, this is a guy that they said, he. was at every political event in Utah in the past 20 years. And you do have people like this. If you go to a political rally, there are these like political junkies. They're total like they're no life losers. And they go to every political thing ever. And they follow it like a groupie for a band. And he was clearly one of those types of people. That's so it seems. And anyway, I'm willing to accept it's a conspiracy, but we just need the evidence. And I feel like Candace Owens, she's been,

she's been beating this drum for two months now and we're really scraping the bottom of the barrel. Now she's on Twitter saying so there's people in maroon shirts in the audience and there's this Lakinta hotel and but and it's like don't you think that at this point something would have turned up somebody would have seen something

somebody would have said something they got nothing and so I'm willing to wait until the trial because that's the other thing when the prosecutors came out a week after the killing, they said something very specific. They said, we know you want the evidence. A spokesperson came out and said, but the defendant has his Fifth and Sixth Amendment rights to a speedy trial with the jury of his peers.

And what they're effectively indicating was in any murder investigation, they don't come out with all the evidence for the media because they don't try the killer of the court of public opinion. they do it in a court of law. And what that means is you need an untainted jury pool. In order for him to have a fair trial, you need a jury that doesn't think he's guilty. And so if you go out and say, here's all our evidence,

here's all the state's evidence that he did it, they're not going to be able to find a jury pool that is impartial. And if you don't have an impartial jury, they could claim that it's a mistrial. So because we have an alive defendant, you really have to wait for the trial to see all the state's evidence.

And so I'm willing to wait for that. I'm open to a conspiracy, but I really don't think at the stage. Do you think it's fully the story they're telling? Because the one big, the biggest thing is like the gun and like the damage. They were talking about this, the bullet disappeared and isn't that kind of thing. Yeah, the 30-od six. It's like, how is that? Well, you know, MLK Jr. was shot with the 30-od six and the same thing happened.

He got shot in the face and it lodged in his shoulder. And there was no exit wound. And his face didn't blow up. And Giavold, this is again, it's like people that are not, and I'm not a ballistics expert either but people go online and they go oh that bullet would never do that and it's like okay but you don't know anything about physics and you don't know anything about ballistics so what are you talking to you know it's like if there's expert testimony it will be there at the trial but it's like again people are just kind of taking anything they can find and using either extrapolation or

you know asking these kinds of rhetorical questions and there just really is any hard evidence. Do you think then Candace is doing it just for like engagement? I think that's a huge part of it. Yeah. I really do. I think that, you know, and obviously I have beef with Candice. I think that she cares that her friend died, certainly. And, you know, you can't discount that. At the same time, this has been really good business for her. Yeah. Like after her show from the first day that she did it after the killing, she's getting like 150,000 viewers. millions of views on every show she's probably making tons of money at this point i think she's milking it it's been like three months and every show is all and and it's like this uh she's just baiting

every day it's this changes everything you're not going to want to miss it tune in tomorrow yeah she's also like slow walking the evidence where she's like i have more evidence but i'm going to wait to release it why so you can milk it for ratings if you have evidence put it all out there Yeah, and I've seen you mention that a few times. So I think, you know, there's a fine line and I'm willing to be, I really am willing to be charitable, even though I don't really like her and say it's her friend, they're very close. Like, I'm sure, I don't think she's a horrible person. At the same time, you're an influencer.

I'm an influencer. You know how it is. You want to have the big show. And I think that at this point, she's milking it a little bit. Yeah. What about the whole thing about her assassination? Have you seen that? Yeah.

The French government's trying to kill her now? You know, it's like show the evidence. evidence. Yeah. She says she's got the names, the paper trail. Oh, but I'm not going to show anybody. Show us the shred of evidence and we'll believe you. But at this point, she sounds totally crazy, you know. And of course, it went back to Brigitte McCrone. You knew it was going there. I knew from the second that she did the show about Charlie Kirk, I'm like, it's just a matter of time before Brigitte McCrone is implicated in this conspiracy. Jesus Christ. Yeah, you're buddy. Oh, my God.

Switching topics a little bit. I think dating. Talk about dating. Sure. What do you think are the biggest problems that men have when it comes to approaching women nowadays? I'm not really the expert. I don't know when the last time I approached a woman was,

probably in high school or college. Because I'm going to tell you, obviously I've done this is the second interview. I've done one. A lot. a ton of women which is surprising I think hit me up and they're like

I love Nick really I love Nick yeah that is surprising like like straight up like someone someone mentioned to me they were like yo they saw that you did an interview with him and she knows this girl and this girl was like I love Nick

I want to marry Nick I want to I want to have his kids he's the man all this so you get a lot of love you do you not like do you not want to pursue it. Do you, you know, because I know obviously family and all this stuff's important. Do you, is it something that you're just like not, not in your scope of your life right now? No, and it never has been. I mean, you know, and here's the thing. It's sort of tough because I am pushing

a line about what we want for society and people sort of view me as a hypocrite because I'm in favor of traditional marriage and all these things when I'm not married, of course. But I try to separate it because I'm an individual and every individual is sort of unique. And for me, it's just never something that was really a priority for me. Do you want kids? I like the idea of it, but to tell you the truth, I really don't. I mean, I do and I don't. I guess I don't have kids.

And I think every man likes the idea of having kids, leaving a legacy, you know, and sewing your seed, right? And even being a dad, being a father, playing catch with your son, whatever. and having, being the patriarch of a family. I like the idea of that, but me personally, I really like to be alone. Me too. You know, every guy does. Yeah.

But for me, it's like non-negotiable. Like I really, you know, I get it. I cannot, I have no social battery. And what really keeps me up is the idea of, you know, you don't have any alone time at all. not when you go to bed, not when you wake up, not when you're eating your breakfast, not when you're playing video games. Like, it's just, and when you have a family, nobody talks about it, but it's a huge responsibility.

Yeah. And especially for someone like myself, I travel all the time. My life is very risky. Like, I have people come to my house trying to kill me. Yeah. And the things that I say, the things that I do, they put me in harm's way. They put my financial security in harm's way. and when you're married with kids, it's a whole different world because me, I'm willing to

throw myself at the machine and give my life, right? I don't want to do that anytime soon, but I'd be willing to. When you have a wife and kids, you can't do that. Yeah. Because if you die, now you got fatherless kids. You got a widow, and you have ruined their lives. And so you, on some level, feel guilty then. Every time you take a risk, everything, every time you do something, you say, am I going to be able to make it home and provide from my wife and kids? And not just on your own personal level, then you got your wife in your ear. Should you really have said that? Should you really do that?

You know, what about us? What have you got kids at home? You know, like, you know, I think about this all the time. You watch Breaking Bad. The villain in Breaking Bad is the wife. Oh, it's such a good show. She's the antagonist. Holy shit.

Because you're watching the show. He's killing himself for this. Right? And he's like, you know, he's f*** up. He's rich. He's powerful. Like, that's a story of the will to power.

Like this pussy white guy getting kicked around, takes charge and becomes a baller. And who is there breaking his balls about it? Well, you know, when are you coming home? You know, it's the wife. And it's the same thing in the Sopranos. Yeah. And it's the same thing in every.

every show. It's like the guy's trying to build an empire and it's the wife. And I love at the end of Breaking Bad, he returns home. And he goes, I just want you to know. And she goes, don't tell me you did it for us. He goes, I did it because I liked it. You know, the best, the best moment. Right? I was good at it. And it's like, that's me. I'm literally him. You know, like I'm good at it. And you can't, you can't have it. But both ways. That's the tension as a guy. You can't really be the family man that you need to be the domestic life, but also be the empire builder, be the king. That's so accurate, bro, because I spent, you know, all my 20s. I was in sort of long relationships and they all failed

because I was so focused on what I was doing. Yeah. Yep. And exactly the same sort of thing. Any sort of like feedback I would get about what I was doing that was negative, I would just, I'm not even willing to have this conversation, completely dismiss it. And I know that that's why those things didn't work out the way they could have. But I also needed to do what I needed to do in order to get to where I always sort of dreamed of. So I do understand that. I do fully understand that. I guess in a more general sense then, looking at the landscape of social media and the world, just from your perspective, why do you think it's so hard for men to just date? Because it seems like more and more we hear it's just like

people are getting married way less people are having kids way less people are just dating way less what do you think's happening well and again it's hard for me to say because I don't have a ton of that experience so it's really from the outside looking in and I guess I would say

you know I really am sympathetic to a lot of the black pill community and even the in-cell stuff and I call myself an insult sort of an inside joke and all that but I really do believe that it is the hypergamy problem, which is that every woman is online, and every woman that's online is getting propositioned by the most elite men. Yeah. And so it was the case once upon a time,

you know, like you go to a bar, your local bar, and you might not be the best looking or the tallest or the richest, but maybe you're the most happening guy at the local bar, and you could get a reasonably attractive girlfriend or wife. Now, every girl who's somewhat, every white girl who's reasonably attractive on Instagram is getting hit up by like billionaires in Saudi Arabia. Why, white, white, why? Because I think, like, whites and Asians are the most desirable, probably. You think that personally or you think that that's just like...

Objectively. Objectively, and I think that's the taste, you know. Like, everybody wants, like, a white girl. Even the black people. That's like a status symbol. And I got... And I'm the white person in France. remember that clip that guy that's what they say yeah yeah yeah so you know like if you so if you are a white

guy and you want a white girlfriend and not be like a passport bro where you go to like Vietnam or whatever and they whatever um then you're up against like an oil sheik in the emirates and you're up against you know some rich guy in his 30s that's got a penhouse in New York and I think that's a big part of it, but I think maybe deeper than that. A huge part of it is how social media in particular, but feminism in general, has empowered women. And, you know, in the old days, women really needed men. They needed to get married because they needed a man. Yeah, I like we're going to. You know what I mean? To protect them, to provide for them. And now they don't need men. They don't need to get married because men are willing to buy them dinner or give them money without even

sex or dating or any commitment at all. And women have their careers or they're on welfare. Like so much of the welfare state is paying for single women, single mothers. Or they're on only fans. They're on only fans making $100 million a month or whatever. Most don't. Most don't make as much. But yeah, they don't need someone as much as they used to. Right. Yeah. So they don't need them. And so, and I even hear this from some women I know. It's just, this like swipe left oh he didn't throw his card down hard enough he didn't buy me an appetizer i didn't like what he said to me swipe but and so men have become totally disposable and unnecessary for women and you know there's something going the other way too i know a lot of chads i know

like a lot of chad guys and uh they're hooking up with a girl every week on instagram and the girls want to go and sleep with the chad i guess on a deeper level because you can't blame it totally on women. On a deeper level, no one really cares about marriage anymore. Marriage has become sort of anachronistic. It's no longer a sacrament. It's no longer permanent. It's no longer really necessary. And I said this with Jack Neal. It's like a lot of boyfriends and girlfriends will live together before they're married. What's even the purpose of a wedding then? It's like if you're in a long-term four-year relationship, you're living together, you have a dog, you have a shared bank account you might as well be married but they never do because they don't want the lifelong

commitment yeah and so i think people just don't take it seriously especially with divorce you know if you if you're one foot in one foot out excuse me what's even the point so i think that uh on a deep level there's a ton of dysfunction people just marriage is no longer an attractive proposition for economic and other reasons anymore yeah and there's just so much the grass is greener the comparison like you said i think social media has a massive thing where girls think like they can just so easily replace someone like that like exactly what you're saying i think that's the crux of it too is just like and even from the men's side is like what else is out there and i think people forget that if you want something to work you have to put effort

energy into the thing you want to work and not just go to the next because the next you're going to have to do the same thing for regardless to also make it work totally i think people i think are also then conditioned i don't know why but it seems like laziness is a big factor this whole thing too yeah because it comes down to like the i don't want to have to i don't want to have to make this work but I don't think people really recognize that love is work. To truly love someone, it's not just like, it shouldn't be just so, I'm not saying it should be tumultuous and you hate every second of your life or, you know,

most of the time you're unhappy, but there are times where you have to be able to put in that energy and putting that work, and I think people are afraid of work. Yeah, that is true. And, you know, it's, the other question is like the long term versus a short term, Because that's the other big thing. Marriage is really the value proposition is that you get old and you die. Yes. And when you're a woman, in particular, you're beautiful for maybe 10 years.

That's the thing. And you could be pretty after that, but like you're in your prime, let's say, from like 18 to 25 or something. And then we all know this is the game they play. They like to have their fun. And then they want to get married later. Once they have their career, once they had their fun, they met every kind of guy they like, then they want to settle down. But then the ship is sort of sailed. Many men are the same way. And what happens is life sort of gets more difficult and sadder. And when you're in your 40s and 50s and 60s, you're going to want somebody that's going to take care of you when you're sick. You're going to want a companion, actually. That becomes really valuable. And so then it's also the instant gratification. It's the gratification now.

Exactly. It's just that short-term thinking because I think about it too. I mean, You know, on the one hand, I think about how I don't want a woman and kids to cramp my style because I like to fly by the seat of my pants and be spontaneous and put my work first. At the same time, I think, what is more miserable than being like a 45-year-old bachelor? And you're like an old fart and you're not young and you're not cool. What are you going to do at that point? You know, and it's hard then to find a wife at that age. And then who's going to be your companion?

Who's going to be taking care of you? It's going to be awfully lonely. You know, so that's one of the reasons I want to get married. That's what makes it attractive. So I think that's a huge part of it is people can't really even see 50 feet in front of them. And I think that's because a big part of that's the phone. Do you think men and women could be friends? No, absolutely not.

Totally ridiculous. I think older women for maybe, you know. Like I know a lot of older women in the conservative movement. Yeah. And it's, you know, maybe that can happen. But young men and young women, they'll, you know, never going to have. bullshit yeah it's the biggest bull oh we're friends yeah okay what are we doing here you know like it's stupid man so so about the gym people wanted me to ask you about the gym the gym what's going on man

what why are you not you know you know okay well you know like I know that I I'm going to again I want to I don't want it bad enough you know here's the thing here's here's my problem so I I love my life. Yeah. I like to go and eat. My favorite thing, because I'm not a very active guy. I'm very sedentary.

And I exist. Sorry, sorry. I just picture you talking about like, when you talk about diets and like, yo, I mean fucking pizza and shit. Those are the funniest bits to me.

That shit gets me going, dude. See, I'm glad you can enjoy it. Because some people are like, wait, no, I don't with this.

Like, no, you got to eat like, chicken and green beans man like this isn't cool so i'm glad you can understand the humor i love the food dude yeah right who doesn't god but like you know i'm very sedentary i'm i'm really i like to think of myself as like a brain and a vat like i'm an interior dude you're fucking sorry go ahead i exist in here you know i'm the in the realm of the mind i'm an interior person yeah i have an interior your life. And so what I like to do, the only thing I like to do is to get dinner and talk with my

friends. Get dinner, go home and hang out. And, you know, and I don't really have any problems in my life, not working out. And don't get me wrong. Like, exercise is important. You should, like, do your exercise to stay healthy and alive. But when people do, like, the bodybuilding, that's all, like, cosmetic. Yeah. And so the idea that I'm going to be, like, sweating and working and going hard and you know measuring my calories and all that just to like look really good it's like i don't need to look that so clav's got it all wrong well clav seems to have got it all right because he's like so famous now totally it worked like he won i'm having i'm having him on monday but it's oh that'll be good yeah it'll be funny that the looks maxing thing is hilarious to me though

i love it yeah what do you think about that do you think that's good or bad i mean what he does the injections of peptides. Peptides, I think are great. I think, because I don't know if I got this right or not, because I've been looking at him a little bit, but he said he took testosterone just, like, not even to work out, but just for the androgenic side effects

so he looks more masculine. Yeah, I think you're right. And I think that's a little weird, because it's like, I get it. But at the same time, you're taking like a hormone that does have, you know, potential side effects. It's like, why take that risk?

I mean, I guess, you know, his outcome. And again, I'll talk to him about this stuff. in person, but his outcome is just the aesthetic. And I think there's so much more you can get out of it. Like, you know, when I talk to you about working out, why not? You know when you talk about you're very internal and your cerebral, obviously, you're very smart. I just know that working out has, it's going to sound crazy, has made me smarter.

No, you're right. It has made me sharper. And I think when I think about those things and those added benefits, it's like, why would, why would that not lead you to be like, oh, this can make me better at my craft in a way? Yeah. And that's why I talk about it. So the look maxing thing is like it, then it's just external. Ah, yeah, yeah. And I think if it's just external, like, you know, you talk about the bodybuilding thing,

for example, it can be very actually unhealthy in the long run. Yeah, right. Because he was talking about taking, like, I think he's taking math or like he's doing, like that's, there's no way that's like a good thing in the long run, right? Hopefully he's smart about it. Again, I'll talk to him. But it's a weird phenomenon that in the last, like, I don't know, is it like the last year?

everyone's talking about this looks maxing thing yeah it's crazy to me i think it's cool face with the fucking thing to like make this more pronounced right yeah yeah yeah he's bone smashing it doesn't even sound real yeah like bone smashing and yeah it's crazy so so i don't know i guess i i just bring it up to you because it's like it'll just make you better yeah no you're right and i know i'm just i'm being a baby about it and even the dieting you know and people troll you about like why don't you try this diet or that diet you're like i don't want to hear about your fucking diet it's like also food the nourishment of your brain like it's gonna make you better but i just like i like i even hit you i remember i was like yo you got to come to the gym

you got to do a bench press thing because i just obviously as a content career i'm like i know that that would be viral yeah and you're like nah we'll look like that fission you should be so wrong mom donnie it's like you're gonna have to put the stuffed animals like sponge bob it's like i can't you can't embarrass me like that i'll come back once i glow up yeah i'm gonna hit the gym, 2026. 2026. New years. New me. Do you think you'll stay consistent? I'm going to try, but it's like,

it's so, I just hate physicality. I hate it. I get it. It's so hard for me. It just makes you feel so good, man. You're right. I mean, because I bought a bike, like an indoor bike. Yeah. And I was doing it for a little while, then I fell off. But like, I was doing it for a while. And you're not wrong. Like, when you eat mostly protein and when you do cardio,

it makes a world a difference. like cyclot, or not cyclot, but mentally. Yeah. Because when you eat a lot of carbs, it totally, I mean, it's obvious, but like, it weighs you down. Yeah. So you're right. Are we going to get you to the gym today? I don't know, man.

You, we could go, but not film it. Wait, but I don't even have an outfit. Oh, I don't have an outfit. Oh, no, no, no, no, I got you. It's a shame. I wanted to, but I don't have the fit on. At least just go take a picture with me there. Oh, I'll take a picture for sure.

He's like, but we'll go. Don't film it. You know what I really want to see is because I want to see people's reaction to you in real life. I don't even care about the working out. Oh, sure. I just know because I've been there and do people bring you up a lot to me. Yeah. I wasn't saying that just to like make you feel cool or something.

But like you're like for some reason in the gym community, you're very popular. That's surprising. Yeah, which is interesting, right? Maybe it's the political like conservative thing, I guess that a lot of, you know, gym people tend to like lean towards. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe that's it. There's definitely a connection because the type of person that gets in the gym is like the type of person that agrees with my politics.

Yeah. I think. No, I've really seen that. And again, I've seen it in person. So I'm like, this is like, I just want to see people's reaction to you more than anything. Yeah, totally. So have you played Arc Raiders yet? No, no.

It's a good. Dude, the game is so fun, bro. Do you actually play video games for real? Is it just like, because I've seen like the clips of you doing the GTA stuff and chasing Ben Shapiro down the street to debate. Yeah. There's hilarious, but do you actually play video games for? Oh, yeah. Do we have to play?

Yeah, let's do it. I play like, I play video games every day. Yeah, me too. Every day. So I've been playing this Arc Raiders game and it is so fun because you have the proximity chat. I just imagine you on proximity chat is like, bro, that's that. If you stream that and did proximity chat would be like, I know it's not your main piece

of content. That would be viral, bro. So viral. I heard of Arc Raiders. Somebody tried to put me on to it. I know it's like number one on Steam or whatever. It's basically like a bat like a, like a, it's an extraction shooter. So you loot stuff and you like get stuff.

You make your guns better. But you can go on teams of one, two or three. And it's, you don't have to engage and fight. The thing that makes it fun is that like, and I don't get paid for any of this. I just actually like the game. You can, you can be like, yo, you see a group of people. Be like you could, you could down on the pad or that e, whatever. And you could talk to them.

Be like, yo, we're friendly. Oh, okay. And then you don't fight. And then like, you just turn out of it. Bro, it is. So it makes all the interactions, like, way more unique. Oh, okay. It's not initially like, you know, any of a battle, battle royale, battlefield,

like it's, you go to get the other team. Right. This is like it can be more PVE. So you don't have to fight them or you can. It's like kind of optional. And that's what makes it. Yeah. So that's what makes it way more interesting every time around.

But we should play that game. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. Okay, so one more thing. I saw the, well, originally, it's ironically enough, I saw Ben Shapiro saying he's going to do this foundation. I think you maybe had done it in the past and you're going to do it again. And he seems to be very unhappy with the fact that you're doing it again.

Yeah, yeah. But it's you and two other people who are starting this. You're the president of it. Yes. The American First Foundation. What is this going to be? So it's a 501C4 nonprofit. And so I'm the head of it.

And we have a couple of other people. I don't know how active they'll be. They're really just one's the treasurer or one's a secretary. We just need a few people on the board. But, so we ran this in the past. We created this entity so that we could do conferences. That's initially why we made it. So this organization...

Like the whole TPUSA thing. Exactly. Okay. So we did like AftPAC, America First Political Action Conference. And we did a number of other things. But in the past couple of years, we really weren't doing much more with it. We just put on an annual conference and that was it. And what I sort of realized this year, and it's kind of,

have always been my long-term plan once I got on a good footing, is that right now I just have the live stream. So I just have the show. And if anything happened to me, it would be over. There'd be no movement. There'd be no, there'd be no nothing. I don't know where people would go or what they do that follow me. It'd just kind of be over. And what it needs to become is a true institution, meaning it's not just built around my personality or cult of personality, but it actually provides resources. It actually provides networking opportunities. And so what we're really looking to do with the foundation is basically to make it something like a think tank so that in the same way that you go to, I can't think of another example, but you can go to the website and find all the information that I talk about on the show. Because on the show, I talk about these like complex networks, like patronage networks and following the money.

And, you know, we talk about like Larry Ellison buying TikTok and then he hires Barry Weiss trying to. I saw that episode, actually. Yeah, thanks. And that's like, you know, it's hard for people to keep up with all that. Because a lot of these names, you don't hear these names every day. Yeah. And if you're not paying super close attention, writing notes, you're going to forget the next day, who this one and that one is.

And oh, I think I've heard that name before. So we want to start to put that together for people like Wikipedia, like in one place. You could see all the information. We want to print books. That's another big thing. turning point prints books they get their college students to read a book list that teaches them the turning point ideology we want to provide that and the other thing is we want to get involved in the election that's the thing people are always asking me how can i get involved and who do i vote for

and i could say on my show you know vote for this guy that guy we want to rate every member of congress and say are they america first or are they not are you going to get their vote or are you not And that way, congressmen are going to think twice when they vote on foreign aid for Israel, what is my rating going to be? Are people going to sit out the election if I do this? We want to apply some pressure. Basically do what APAC does for Israel. We want to do that for America. We want to be the American lobby. So, and for reference, to make this clear, it's not just to expose or show the sort of wrong, in your opinion, relationship. And on a lot of people's opinion, relationship from Israel to America or America to Israel, vice versa.

I'm assuming it's for everything that has to do with like America. Like, no matter what, if it's not benefiting America, you want people to be aware of it. Yes, yes. Okay. That's why it's America first. So as a C4, the mission of it is to provide political education. And we want to provide political education to make people more informed voters, more informed decision makers and and this the spotlight is on corruption because that's really the central

problem the country sucks because the country is corrupt the government's been corrupted and so they're putting Wall Street first Silicon Valley first Israel is bro at this point like it's blatant it's offensive how obvious it is you know like they don't even care that we know and so we want to put pressure in the other direction on behalf of the people cool how could I get involved in that I'll tell you, we're going to relaunch it in January, so we're going to have all the information next year. Cool. I'll make sure. I want to, I definitely like that. I love the idea. So I'm going to be involved in that for sure. One last thing. If not Vance in 2028, who do they vote for then? Well, you know, right now, I don't know. Yeah. Because the problem is, first of all, it's way too early.

You know, the primary is going to start roughly in maybe a year, 18 months. It'll start in 20, Yeah. And we just don't know who's going to run. So do you think that in light of everything that's happened over the last like two years that I mean, we've already kind of seen this with certain Congress people like kind of coming out and saying, yo, I'm not going to take this money. Some, some, I think some senator or someone from Minnesota or something said, I'm going to give this money back from APEC. Do you think that politicians now moving towards will will concede and be like, yo, I'm not going to do this? Like, do you think they recognize, you know, know, after the, I know Menbani got elected,

and one of his, I think one of the things that stood out to me was he's in the stage and they're asking him about, you know, where are you going to go after you get? It's like, why are we even talking about this? And he's like, I'm going to stay here and work for the, you know, the Jewish New Yorkers here and make sure they're good in the five boroughs. And they're like, well, you're not going to go there. And I just, I couldn't believe that that's still a line of questioning. I guess it makes sense, right?

Because that's what they've always done. But do you think that politicians will start to take note like now? Well, they already have. And I think that, especially after the Tucker thing, that really made it, I would say, a wedge issue. And here's the trouble on the GOP side. So Tucker is really close with J.D. Vance. And when Tucker interviewed me, all the pro-Israel organizations on the right wing really put the screws in Vance. And they said, well, what do you think about this?

Because he might be the next president. He's already the vice president. this, Tucker's your guy. Tucker interviewed the number one anti-Semites, so whose side are you on? And they're really putting Vance in a tough spot because the people are with Tucker and me. But the money in the lobby is, of course, with Israel. And so they're basically saying, well, it's us or them. So if, and they made it very plain to him, they said, if you don't disavout Tucker, then we will support someone else. We'll support DeSantis. We'll support Marco Rubio in the primary. And we will deny you the Republican nomination. But I don't think it's so simple because come 2028 can a Republican win being Israel

first. That's what they're worried about. That's why they want to censor the internet because what the Israel lobby is worried about is that by 2028 in the Iowa caucus in the New Hampshire primary, so many people are going to be against Israel that it's going to be more of a liability to be pro-Israel than anti-Israel with the voters. Yeah. So right now it's a question. between the voters and the money the people are against israel the money's with israel and it's going to put vance and everybody else in this position of if you take a pro-israel line you get the money you're going to be super unpopular if you're critical of israel you're going to get the support maybe but you'll be denied the money and the question is in two years time what's going to be more powerful

there i when i hear that i just think like couldn't they just i i guess it sounds conspiratorial but couldn't they just rig it? You know, like, if they really want what they want, regardless of what everyone else wants or believes or things, couldn't they just do what they wanted to do anyways? Because I feel like that's how all this is anyways, like this left and right. To me always just feels like, let me rally these people up.

Oh, more people are kind of siding with this side. So that's where we'll go. And they like these values, so we're kind of leaning there. But it seems like it's just the, you know, two different hands of the same body. Oh, yeah. They rig it all day. So that's my concern is that like no matter what, like they'll sneak someone, they'll sneak it in there, how they want it in there regardless

because that's their prerogative period. Yeah. You know, whether in regards to Israel or not, just whatever they want, they're going in that direction. Yeah. And that's what I get so concerned with all this stuff, just in general, like, when I think of the technology stuff and where it's going with like Palantir and the idea of like just implementing all this AI into our lives and where does it go to the point of the

neuralink and then you, you're just shutting people off if they don't agree with what you want. Like, I have a real fear of the whole AI thing that, like, it seems like we're going to go to a position where it's almost going to be complete and utter entire control. Yeah. Like, do you think that that's the direction that it's going in? I think that's where they want it to go. It is. Well, and you have to think that the other thing with AI is we don't even know what it's capable of because what we're getting on chat GPT is not the best of what they have. Like, they're using it internally.

They're using the cutting edge AI is probably far more sophisticated than the most advanced model they've released. Of course. And they're using it for internal purposes. And if you're, let's say you're a billionaire or you're one of the most powerful people, what are you going to use the most sophisticated model for? You're going to use it to predict the future. And what's going to happen eventually, I think, is that the AI prediction is almost going to

blur the line with reality because let's say you're in an election. How much of what makes people vote is determined by what they see in the algorithm on Twitter, on Instagram, on Facebook, YouTube, are you going to get to a point where AI is going to be almost like, how would you say it? They're almost fine-tuning how the election results will go. How personalized can to get? Can they control every individual person's timeline with the algorithm? Can they fine-tune it to manipulate your opinion on certain issues to get you to vote? In other words, does it become almost deterministic that, like, AI will be programming people more than we program AI? And who does the AI then answer to anybody? Or will it answer to the people that are running it? Or will it

answer to the government? That's what I'm, I'm sort of worried how it's going to manipulate us. So, Skynet. Maybe less so. So it's like, well, it's almost worse because Skynet declares war on mankind. What if AI does something more subtle where it's like we don't even know it's at war with us or manipulating us or who's using it to manipulate us? Yeah. Because if you watch enough, like people used to talk about in 2017, the YouTube algorithm would lead them down the rabbit hole. Remember that's what they said. I became all right on YouTube, whatever.

Well, that's the power of social media before AI. What happens if AI could lead you down the rabbit hole? What could it get you to do or believe or support or the whole society at large or some segments against the others? I'm concerned about how it influences behavior. Yeah. Well, I mean, and then the behavior and the emotional reaction to things is like how most people vote for anyone anyways is they're not even so aware of all the policies and all the

things. They just kind of go off how they feel. Right. And so how you feel is, yeah, I definitely largely determined. I mean, even when we talked about the dating stuff is like, there's so many options. There's so many things is what it's feeding you, what it's showing you. Now the, yeah, now the concern is who's controlling it?

Is it controlling itself? Like, where, where's that like sort of master in that situation? It's going to get so blurry that it's just scary to me when I talk about it. Because I don't know the answer. I don't know which direction it's going like you're saying. It just seems like, I don't know. It seems like going to be to press a button and be like,

I want everyone to believe this. Right. That's what I believe. Yeah. That's frightening. Well, and the ability to surveil you. And you have to think about all the data that we are feeding AI. Because AI, these LLMs, large language models, and everything else, it's fed on data.

And what we do now is everything is a computer. Like your phone, your refrigerator. your car, your thermostat, everything, it's called the, you know, the, what do they call it, the internet of things, that's really what the 5G towers are for, is because everything's going to be connected to Wi-Fi. And your printer, your watch, your shoes, like, it's all connected to AI. And so the amount of data it's getting about your biometrics, your fingerprint, your sleep schedule, your eyes, your diet, but also it can track your movements. Your router can tell where you are in your house. Yeah. Because it pings the signal. The signal.

off of you or your phone or your device. And so it's like you're feeding it literally every piece of information, things you wouldn't even think of, like your movements, your habit is where you go, who you talk to, what you say, brainwaves maybe. Sometimes it feels like your phone's reading your mind. You think about something and then you see it on your phone. And then you think, okay, it knows me better than I know myself. How then can it use that against me?

Maybe in a hostile way, maybe in a more subtle, seductive way. to influence our behavior. And I think that's, you know, people think what if the AI controls us? Or I think it could even be more subtle. It's just like we kind of lose our agency when we interact with it. We become less human.

Yeah. I mean, that's the, that's my like ultimate fear is that we just become part robot. Right. And then take that to the farthest degree, then we're just essentially at some point extinct. Yeah. So I think that's how it ends, man.

I'll be honest with you. Yeah. Kind of sad. More likely than not, I think. Yeah. We had a good run. Yeah, we tried. We tried.

Well, bro, it's been an absolute pleasure. I think we had to head to the gym. We're going to, we're going to live stream some bench press in. No. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. No, thank you so much for coming out. Thank you, man.

Everybody subscribe to the channel. Every Tuesday, 11. I love you guys. Shout on Nick. Thank you for coming to making the time for me today. And yeah, let's get out of here. Thank you so much, bro. Hit the gym.