REAL AF with Andy Frisella - 1067. Q&AF: Tiers Of Leadership, Networking With Older People & Closing Deals
Episode Date: October 12, 2026On today's episode, Andy answers your questions on how to set different levels of leadership in your growing business, how to network with older professionals in your industry, and how to close deals ...with clients who take forever to commit.
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On the flow
Now my jury box froze
Fuck a pole
Fuck a stole
Count it millions
And I got a on
What is up guys
It's Andy for selling
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We're going to speculate.
And then we're going to talk about how we the people have to solve these problems going on.
All right.
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how's it going it's good yeah man it's beautiful uh beautiful friday we got fall fest
we're recording on a friday guys shows on monday but yeah fall fest is probably one of my
favorite things to look forward to yeah it is my favorite event we do like it's fucking
awesome we got the bulls got the radio i can't wait dude
I can't wait.
Yeah, they said you signed up to ride this year.
I did.
Yeah.
They signed up to ride me.
Oh, Paul.
Yeah.
It's like Chuck Norris.
What is that gay?
Well, that's pretty, yeah.
I mean, yeah.
Yeah.
A little gay.
I think I'll clip that.
All right.
It's Monday.
It's Monday.
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Yeah.
We also saw a lot of you guys are not fucking subscribed.
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Yeah, man.
Well, guys, it's Monday.
It's time to make some people better.
Yep.
I got three good ones for you.
Cool.
Let's get into it.
Guys, Andy.
Question number one.
Hey, Andy.
Hey.
Hey.
Hey, I got my form energy.
Yeah.
Oh, that's all right.
I haven't seen you do orange in a minute.
Bro, orange is so good.
Orange is good, bro.
Bro, you know what I had?
I had that, uh, that lemonade.
The clear?
The clear.
Dude.
Fuck, bro.
That formula one clear lemonade is the best protein ever.
No, no, the non-carb.
Oh.
Oh, yeah.
Well, fuck.
Carb, bro, fuck.
This is juice.
Well, the Formula One clear, we're just going to make this a whole fucking commercial.
Let's do it.
Yeah.
Let's do it.
Yeah.
Anyway.
Yeah.
You got the what, non-carb, which one?
Non-carb lemonade.
Yeah, bro.
The pink or the regular?
Regular.
I like the pink lemonade.
Yeah.
Pink's good.
Pink's good.
They're both fucking great, but I got to drink them on ice.
You could drink them warm, dude.
Yeah.
See, I like them.
Ask me how I know.
How?
Because we, I had to, I needed some energy and we only had a warm one and I fucking drink.
It was still good.
It was still good.
Yeah, man.
But yeah, let's make some people better.
Guys, Andy, question number one.
Hey, Andy.
Me and my brother own an excavation company.
And we're wondering how, at what point in business, do you set tiers of leadership,
executive managers, etc.
We run about 40 employees and growing.
I just love your advice on this.
Is there like a ratio of leaders to lead-es?
You know, I bet there's people.
to have a certain formula for that, like X amount of people for this amount of leaders.
But at the end of the day, you know, you got to find out what works for your particular
organization. And, you know, I wouldn't say there's a quote unquote time, but in terms of like,
okay, we've got 10 people or 12 people or 40 people or whatever, but you have to pay more
attention to what's actually going on. Okay. When you are leading a small group, it is very
easy to lead a small group because the communication comes from your mouth directly to their ears
and there's no game of telephone in between, right? There's no delusion of message or standards.
Yeah. As you grow, when you get, you know, 20, 30, 40 people and you're not able to talk to
all of them at the same time or get all of their ears at the same time, now you're in a position
where you're starting to depend on other leadership inside your organization to take up that cause
and make sure that they're leading.
Now, the best way to do this is that as you start, you know, like excavation, for example,
like a lot of people think that that's just hopping on an excavator or a piece of equipment
and doing work, right?
Most excavation companies operate that way.
But if I were building an excavation company, and let's say I just started and I had 20 or 30 guys,
what I would do is I would make leadership training part of the training.
So I would have off-site trainings that, you know, you paid the guys to be at,
where you talk to them about leadership and you explain to them,
hey, this is what we're trying to do.
This is where we're going with the company.
These are the opportunities as we grow.
And I need some of you guys to step up as leaders so that we could scale that out
because it's impossible to scale without good leadership.
So making leadership,
training part of whatever you do inside your organization is a must from the beginning if you want to
scale from inside out if you want to hire in leaders that's a different thing it takes money first of all
but second of all a lot of times when you hire in leaders there's no rapport built between the new
leader and the people who have been there so there's not much respect and it creates issues so
growing the culture either that's right growing your leaders from the inside and
is super important to long-term culture because you want new people that come in over,
let's say you're going to grow this excavation company into 500 employees.
You want the new people to come in and see the success stories of the other guys who started,
grew, escalated, and built a career inside your organization.
So while I wouldn't say there's an exact time or an exact method, now some people might have
one.
I don't think there is one.
I've run many different companies in many different industries, and it's always been the same.
You kind of need it from the beginning.
You need to start cultivating it from the beginning.
Your natural leaders, the people who pay attention to what it is that you're trying to do,
the people who are bought in will escalate their skill set, which will help you scale out the brand.
But you want to start that way before you need it, not just when you need it.
100%.
One thing I've learned when you talk about leadership.
One of the things you've said before in a certain way, but it's like, you know, you don't just go out and here's the title of leader now.
No.
The peers kind of develop, okay, who's this guy?
And then you give the title once they've acknowledged it.
Yeah, leadership is not a title.
It's an initiative.
It's a mandate.
Yeah.
It's something that you have to like recognize.
And, you know, on Friday I talked about solutions people.
Right.
Okay.
Right.
Solutions people get paid.
All right.
And that's how it works in any organization.
And what happens is as you start to paint the vision, as you start to move down, those, there's, there's people like that in every organization. You may not know them because you're not leaning on them to actually or empowering them to actually show that. But as you start to train, you'll see people buy in. They will start to escalate their skill set. They will naturally become someone who is very clearly taking control of what's going on. And then those people basically become, they go from peer leadership to recognize.
recognize leadership. And that's a good way to do it because there's respect built there.
Yeah. Yeah. I guess, you know, my next question on this, like, you know, a small company,
like, you know, this guy's excavation company, you know, how important is it for him to be very
hyper aware at the leaders? Because I feel like, you know, leadership, you can have great leaders
who are, you know, actually pushing shit the right way, but you could also have bad, you know,
leaders of the peers that are fucking off doing the bullshit. That's absolutely a thing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, dude,
there are leaders just like there's people in life who use their natural abilities
for not good things right and just because you think of leadership as something that leads
towards the outcome that you're after if you have someone who learns leadership skills and is
not bought into what you're doing they can very easily lead your guys off into the fucking
wilderness where you don't want them that's right okay so it is extremely important
to recognize who has influence
and what are they using it for
and are they using it for good
and those are going to be the people that lead
and those people that are going to
that you that have leadership skills that come in
and are cancerous to your
you have to fun get rid of those guys
immediately
because they will use their natural ability
to lead to turn into like a little coup
you know what I mean inside your culture
yeah so yeah last question
leadership is a great conversation dude
It's just because it's an ever-evolving skill set.
It never ends.
Yeah.
But I want to ask you, you know, let's go back to 2010, right?
2011 when, you know, your companies really started pushing, right?
How, how easy or hard was it for you, right?
Because, you know, it's like that saying, you know, like you want shit done right?
You do it yourself.
You know what I'm saying?
How easy or hard was it for you transitioning into allowing others to carry the fucking ball down the field?
It's very hard.
because when you're used to doing things yourself and you have a high standard for the way that things are to be done, it's very frustrating, especially in the beginning years because the stakes are higher, right?
You have less tolerance for mistakes because there's less business.
Your brand isn't established.
Every dollar fucking matters, which by the way is how you should run your business regardless of what level it's at.
But in the beginning, that's a real thing.
Like it's not a made up thing.
It's very important that you recognize that you can't scale without it.
Can't scale with just your own two hands, bro.
And a lot of entrepreneurs kill their growth because they refuse to allow other people any responsibility.
And as a leader, what you have to look at when you're scaling out a company is what is your tolerance for the mistakes to be made and how do we view those mistakes through the proper perspective?
And the proper perspective is that when someone makes a mistake, if they make it in good faith,
like they made a mistake because they're trying to make the company better or they're trying to do a job right,
that mistake should be looked at as an investment in their skill set.
So you have to understand there needs to be an allowance for them to create, you know, mistakes.
And then when they make them, you have to eat that, even if you knew the answer looking at
it as a positive to their own development as a leader.
You follow me?
100%.
So like if you had a company and let's say people keep making mistakes and you keep firing people
for the same mistakes, they keep coming in and making the same mistake, right?
So you have a guy who's invested a year or two and he makes a big mistake, but he did it
with the right intention and you fire that guy.
You're going to bring a guy in who's going to go for a year or two.
When he gets that same point, he's going to make the same mistake.
and then you're starting with the same thing over and over and over again.
So you have to have tolerance for their mistakes to a level of which it's looked at as a deposit into their education.
Now, if they make big, like you should never allow people the enough leeway for them to make mistakes that will like crush the company, right?
you want to limit their capacity to hurt the company with what they're able to handle
but you also want to give them the freedom to make some of those decisions right so it's like
there's a nuance there yeah you also mentioned too like how you respond to those mistakes that
are made too is important because if you shut it down and you fucking you know maybe it depends it depends
it depends on what it was if the mistake is made in good intent that's a coaching point if the
mistake is made out of laziness, that's when you fucking, you know, do what leaders got to do
sometimes.
Hammer down, baby.
Yeah.
You know, dude, you can't tolerate fucking bullshit, bro.
You can't do it.
You cannot tolerate it.
Like, the reason most companies fail is because their standards are fucking, they allow the
standard of the owner to be diluted to a point where they just accept mediocre work.
And they end up failing.
So.
you know, your standards have to be protected and they have to be protected aggressively.
And any person who's ever won any business ever, whether it's a small business, medium business,
large business, sports team, organization, whatever, their standards are high and those
standards are consistent and they are monitored by the leadership and they are they are enforced.
And if you do a really good job building culture, the culture will.
enforce those standards itself. You won't have to.
Yeah. Going back to the importance of raising those leaders in. Right. Yeah. I love it, man.
Guys, Andy, question number two. Andy, I'm 28 and I've landed a job as president of a smaller oil
field service company. How do I network with people that are older than me? Most people are 50 plus
and similar roles. And same from my client's age. Most of their kids are my age. I feel like this
is more of a how do I get the respect of the older old OGs in the group you get the respect by
being good okay your respect doesn't come from your fucking age it doesn't come from your title it
doesn't come from what school you went to it doesn't come from the experience you had it comes from
if you're able to put put up when everybody's watching that's what respects about and you got to earn it
every single time dude you go it doesn't matter what you did for 20 years okay if you don't come in the
room and fucking show them what the fuck you're all about, you're not going to have the respect.
Respect is always earned all the time.
So when you're a young person and you're trying to make an impact with older people,
you have to earn that respect by being good at what you do, by being a hard worker.
And if you're if you're doing those things, like if you're outworking all the old guys,
which isn't hard, it's not hard.
They're all fucking set in their ways.
They're all, they all cut corners.
It's all, this is the way we do.
things. I mean, dude, you can run circles around old people because, dude, old people have stopped
giving a fuck. Does that come with his own headaches, though? You know what I'm saying? Like the,
you know, the young buck showing up the older guy. Who cares? Yeah. Why you care about that?
Yeah. I don't give a fuck. Get better. Yeah. Hell yeah. And I'm ready. I'm ready. Hell
Yeah, bro. That motherfuckers don't, they don't, they don't give a fuck about you, bro.
They, they, they, they, they, they, oh, don't work so hard. You're fucking making us all look bad.
well get better like that see and that's another thing they'll respect that like they respect that
when you when you first get into a group and everybody's and this is this is why people have such a
hard time leading they get in and this is not do this is not dedicated to this question exactly
this is just in general when you insert yourself in a group and you try to lead it you you
understand that you're fighting an uphill battle automatically because that group has its ways
that they do things, whether it's the right way or not.
When you come in and people start, like, pressuring on you, like, hey, that's not the way we do
things.
And your response is, I don't give a fuck how you used to do things.
This is how the fuck we're doing things now.
They might go bitch in the corner and they might not like it, but they're going to fucking respect
that.
And that is a natural thing with humans.
Humans respect people when they know that those people are holding the line that they're
supposed to hold, whether they voice it or not. So if you really want the respect of older people
in an organization, earn it by being great. It is that simple. Don't take any shit. Don't let them
fucking influence you. Don't let them talk you into being mediocre. Don't let them talk you into cutting
corners. When they try to, you say, hey, you might do shit that way. That's not how the fuck I do
shit. And by the way, on our team,
we're doing shit my way. Okay?
Leadership takes assertiveness.
And if you don't have the courage
and the fortitude to look
someone in the eye and be like, I don't give a
fuck how you used to do things. We're doing them this way.
Now, then you can't lead.
Can't lead.
How hard was that for you? Because I'm
trying to like a mad. It's not hard. Well, I'm saying.
Like, I mean, you started when you were 19. You know what I'm saying?
Going in these meetings and shit with people like...
Yeah, everybody's older than me. Everybody.
Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I'm sure
at one point you had employees that were still fucking older than you yeah you know what I'm saying
but yeah you just like was that never like you just never had an issue with that like you never
had no I did because people no there's issues with it because people who are fucking low IQ
they think that because they're a certain age that they are better than you at the thing yeah
in life just because I've been living and it's like dude well if you're so good at life why the fuck
you still doing this right you know what I mean
Right. So you get a lot of that shit. And dude, when you, you know, when you're dealing with people who have low IQ and they think, well, I'm like, think of how stupid this argument is. I'm older than you. So I'm, I'm more important than you. I'm better than you. I'm no. I'm, I know more than you. Right. This is this, this, this. It's all irrelevant shit, dude. It's low IQ shit. Like, I never had a problem with it because the truth of the matter is is our asses were always on the line. And if my ass is on the line,
I don't really give a fuck what your perception of me is.
Yeah.
I don't care if you're old, young, in between.
It doesn't matter.
We're getting this done.
Okay.
And that is,
that is something that when your ass is on the line,
for real,
and this is how you could tell a lot of people that ask these kinds of questions,
their asses aren't really on the line.
Yeah.
Because at the end of the day, bro,
if your ass is on the line,
you don't care if someone's five years older than you or 10 years older
and you do the fucking job or get the fuck out of here.
100%.
do. Yeah. Now, on this piece, you know, you got a young buck in this situation. What's something he
shouldn't do, though, in this situation? Try to overly assert and flex on them. That is something that
young people tend to do. You know, they think that, quote unquote, it's about being the boss. So they'll
come into an organization where people are maybe a little bit older than them. And they'll start, like,
trying to flex that authority as an inappropriate times. And that's what loses the respect
of people like that.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
The goal is a gain of respect.
Yeah.
Period.
Yeah.
Yeah.
See, dude, in those situations, sometimes a lot of young people will try to, they'll try
to assert leadership as opposed to earning respect.
And there's a complete different thing.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yes, you need to assert yourself.
But you need to do so when it's appropriate.
And a lot of young people, what they do is they get in pissing contest.
This is very common amongst men, too.
they want to show the older men that they are in charge
so they will try to get those guys to do things
that they necessarily like really don't need to do
just to like prove the point of I'm being in charge
and that's where you lose the fucking respect right 100%
you don't misuse your leadership capital yeah or play the game
ever I want to be liked yeah that's not that's not you shouldn't be thinking
that yeah being like and being effective or two different things
And you don't have to not be liked to be effective.
And in fact, the more effective you are, the more they're going to like you.
That's what people don't understand.
It's like when I talk about leadership.
Leadership isn't about what they're going to say about you tonight when they go home.
Leadership's not about what they're going to say, you know, this month because you've been in a bad, you know, it's been hard and you've been up their ass, right?
That's not leadership.
Leadership's what they're going to say five years from now.
Okay.
And if you get someone to fucking win, they're going to fucking think highly of you later.
So if you really want to be liked and loved, you're going to demand the best out of that person every single time.
And that's what leadership's about.
Leadership is about making them better so that we collectively can get to an outcome that we're all trying to get to.
And it's that simple.
But where it gets confusing for people is when they start to make it more complicated, they start to think it's a bunch of different things.
Or, you know, sometimes young leaders will be like, well, nobody.
made me the leader. No, you made yourself the leader. And leaders are self-made. They're not
anointed. They're not picked. They're fucking self-made. They materialize. You understand?
They show up. And then you're like, that's the guy. So the leadership from an entrepreneur,
an employee standpoint, is the leadership is taken. It's not granted. And that's where people get
get confused, right?
Yeah.
They think that like, I've got to come around and say, oh, well, you're, you're in charge.
No.
Take charge.
And then the, the people will come along and they'll say, okay, well, you're in charge because you're already in charge.
Yeah, he's our guy.
Right.
Yeah.
I love it, dude.
Love it.
Guys, Andy, our third and final question.
Question number three.
Andy, I have a prospective client that I've been in talks with for over a month.
the contract idea has been laid out and the client has been receptive of it however they are dragging
their feet we will go days without a reply from them how do i motivate the client to move forward
without coming across desperate or overbearing read what was the first part of the question again
prospective client he's been in talks with for over a month about signing this contract and they've
been dragging their feet how do you come off how do you motivate them to sign without coming across
desperate or overbearing well first of all first of
all months, not a long time. It's not really that long. It takes people sometimes to some time to make
decisions. You know, there's a number of things you could do to increase urgency. You know, you can,
and by the way, what I'm about to say has to happen before you get to this point. Okay. So
the more familiar people are with you, the less in demand you're going to be. Okay. So,
when you make yourself available to the point of I'm always available, people don't respect that.
Okay, they don't respect your time.
They don't respect, you know, really anything because they're like, well, they're just waiting on me to do this.
While that's a good place to be as a business owner, it also creates the scenario that you're in.
So one of the best ways that you can eliminate this scenario from happening is to make your,
yourself and your time valuable perception-wise before you get to this point that we're at,
okay?
Which means you have to set that precedent in the first conversation, the second conversation,
right?
Yeah.
Hey, man.
Here's the proposal.
I've got an opening.
I can do it now.
But if I can't do it now, I'm not going to be able to do it until fucking July, which is six
months away.
Okay, that could create some urgency.
Dude, that's incredible.
Like, if I'm thinking about that, that's incredible.
I'm sorry.
No, it's just basic psychology.
That's crazy.
What?
Like, because, like, I mean, I feel like on one hand, like, you know, like you, like you are fucking desperate.
Like, I need this shit to go, but you have to like, like, that's like, bro, that's crazy.
Well, I mean, do you want people to fucking buy your shit or not?
Right.
Right.
Okay.
And do people want to buy shit from someone who's just waiting for them to do?
Or do they want to buy from the guy who's in demand?
Yeah.
Sometimes you got to make that perception happen.
Sometimes you got to fucking razzle dazzle that.
All right.
So another thing you could do now, since you're already in the situation is you can try that move a little bit differently.
And you can call them and you could say, hey, look, I know we've been talking about this for a month.
I just want to give you a heads up.
I've only got this much time to do this job.
I'm kind of putting all everything else on hold for this.
I need to know if you want to do it or not.
Now you don't have to tell me right now, but I'm going to need to know in the next week or so if you want to do it.
Otherwise, I'm not going to be able to get to it until X.
Right.
Okay.
But that, and that can work, but that, it works better when you set the precedent up front, right?
Does that make sense?
There's a lot of ways.
It makes so much.
Yeah.
There's a lot of ways to create urgency when you're selling that, you know, to create this urgency that we're talking about.
But ultimately, to solve the problem permanently, so you don't keep running into this problem,
is that you have to set that table up front.
You got to set those expectations up front.
You got to let them know, even if they're your only fucking client, you got to let them know
that your fucking time is valuable.
And you've got to do that by setting that precedent in the first conversation.
Okay.
And don't fucking, you'll fuck it up if you don't commit to it.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
Like if they think you're full of shit
You're gonna gonna laugh at you right right but but dude if you do it in a professional way
It's it's it's pretty effective fuck dude that that's incredible though I don't I don't know I think it's pretty basic
It I mean yeah but like bro that is fucking incredible like I've never even like that's crazy
Well dude I mean think about who you want to spend okay let's just hypothetical yeah all right
Let's say you want your kitchen done right all right you just got your kitchen remodeled I did it was a fucking it was hell
Yeah that sucks
So let's say you have two guys bidding the job, and the one guy is basically giving you off like desperate vibes.
Like, hey, man, are you ready?
Are you ready?
I can be there tonight.
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
Okay.
And you appreciate that.
You appreciate that.
Well, let's say the other guy has set this level of urgency up front.
And let's say he's more money.
This is how you could sell for more money too.
And let's say he's a little more money.
and you're kind of dragging your feet
because you're like fuck dude I'm not sure
and then the fucking second guy calls you
and he says hey dude look
it's time to shit or get off the pot
in respectful way
yeah yeah yeah um
you're gonna go with that second guy most of the time
yeah you know what I mean
100% you're because the perception is
that you're gonna get a better quality job right
right now I think the value too
it's like you know you're almost playing it it's like
you know dude I got I'm booked up for the next
fucking three months man so it's like
you know it's now we're yeah yeah i don't know what class is going to be like that yeah but yeah but
dude there's other benefits to that too so if you create the expectation that it's hard to work with
you and then you get the job and then you do the job now you've set a post job job
word of mouth story that is worth them telling which is bro i got you listen i got this guy i don't
know if you can get him because he's booked up all right but I know him and maybe I can get him
to do your shit too but he's fucking awesome okay and he doesn't do everybody and I don't even know
if I can get him now all of a sudden that guy wants the that wants it so bad and that's what
we're talking about yeah fuck dude that's incredible yeah fuck same way you pick up chicks just
for you young guys yeah like like yeah for like you for like you for like you for like
you young dudes, you know, the more into man you make yourself, the more scarce you make
yourself, the more girls are going to want to talk to you.
So, but you can't do that because you're fucking so desperate for the pee.
That's right.
You can't even think it through.
I can be there tonight.
Yeah, we should, we should do a whole episode of just game for the boys.
You know what I'm saying?
I fucking love it.
Yeah.
I mean, real, like, real question for you, bro, like, because like, you just said, like,
well, it's pretty simple to me, you know what I'm saying?
Like, why do, why is most shit just like, like,
overly complicated.
Like, why do they, why does it appear to be just so overly complicated?
Why do you think it does?
I don't know.
Well, why do you think it's overly complicated?
Huh?
No, no, no.
That's not what he's saying.
Yeah.
I, bro, I genuinely, like, I feel like I do not know.
I can't, like, I feel like, because, like, you say this?
Okay.
It's so simple.
Why would anybody be confused about anything?
What confuses people in general?
Too many fucking opinion
Too much information
Okay
Okay
So we have too much information
Yeah
On the internet
About from a bunch of people
Who have never done a fucking thing
Telling people
How to run their businesses
That's gonna confuse people
Okay
And this is why I tell you guys
You have to be very careful
Who you listen to
You have to like
Do your due diligence
And so it's very important
To block out
information from people who are playing a different game than you are playing.
Or they have never played the game.
So you've got to find someone who's kind of on a similar journey.
The real journey, which is I start with nothing and it takes a long time and it's very
difficult and I have to go through all these challenges, whether they ran a, you know,
a fucking snow cone company or an excavation company or a real estate.
state company or fucking any kind of company, someone who's run a company for 20 years that's
been successful, they're going to know all of these little things.
Yeah.
I learned that it actually is pretty fucking simple.
It is super simple.
And what fucks it up is the amount of bullshit information.
Unnecessary.
It's confusing.
Fucking goob.
He's the out there.
The unnecessary goob mess that's out there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, fuck, man.
I mean, listen.
If you're trying to walk from here to California and you open up your phone to like go on
Instagram, make a post and say, how do I get to California?
And you have 4,000 people telling you a different fucking thing.
You know what's probably going to happen?
You're probably not going to go.
Probably do nothing.
Right.
So there's this thing called paralysis by analysis, which means, and there's also this other thing
called the paradox of choice.
But when you're presented with too many choices.
The natural choice is to do nothing.
And that that's the problem that we have with so much information.
It's confusing and it causes paralyzation.
I love it, man.
Well, I know somebody got better today.
Guys, any of us?
All right, guys.
Let's go out there and have a good week.
Don't be a hove.
Show the show.
Went from sleeping on the floor.
Now my jury box froze.
Fuck a bull.
Fuck a stole.
Counted millions in a cold.
Bad bitch, booted swole.
Got her on bank row.
Can't four.
Just a no headshot case clow clow
