REAL AF with Andy Frisella - 153. Finance, Influence & Authenticity Ft. Rob Freund

Episode Date: October 16, 2021

Authenticity has never been more valuable than it is now. On today's episode, Andy and the crew are joined by Rob Freund, a lawyer, and advisor for brands, agencies & influencers. They discuss why financial responsibility is an important skill to learn early on in life, the difference between a true entrepreneur and someone who's just looking to make quick money, and how you can grow your brand organically by being yourself.

What's up guys, it's Andy Frisella and this is the show for the realest say goodbye to the lies, the fakeness and delusionsusions of modern society. And welcome to motherfucking reality. Guys, today, we've got a full-length show for you. Before I get into the intros and bringing on our special guest, I would like to remind you of the fee. The fee is very simple. If you enjoy the show, if you learn something, if you change your perspective, if it makes you laugh,, it makes you think, if

you think it's a value, please share the show. As you know, we don't run ads on the show. We're one of the only podcasts that doesn't. I do that because I find it annoying as fuck when I listen to other people's shows, which is rarely, but we don't do that here. So if we do a good job, share it. If we don't, don't share it. And that's how we work.

So that's the fee uh got my brother dr sal in the house what's going on what's going on yeah i'm also the least informed social media guy in the room dj asked me to introduce myself as the least informed yeah because he always asked me how did you see this on the internet i don't see shit on the internet i don't look at instagram from the time i get here to the fucking time i put my kids down so i'm well you gotta be the second least informed then because motherfucker you come to me every day and you're like oh did you see this no bro like bro i saw that a week ago hours okay yeah i'm almost yeah second i'll take second place all right i'll take it in that. And we also have a special guest, my buddy, straight from California, Robert Freund. How are you, bro?

I'm doing well. Thanks for having me. It's good to see you, man. Yeah, you too. Now, tell everybody a little bit about what you do and then we'll explain why he's here. Sure. I'm an advertising lawyer. I focus on e-commerce and social media marketing issues. So basically, if you sell stuff online, I help you keep the money you make rather than give it over to a plaintiff's lawyer or the government or whoever else might sue you. So my background's in litigation. I try to help people stay out of it more now.

And I represent brand owners, agencies, and influencers and other talent. So Robert does a lot of cool shit on the internet and i've learned a lot just from watching your page bro uh i appreciate the content you put out especially as a company that works heavily with influencers it's been very helpful if you guys aren't following him you should follow him what's your instagram my Instagram is my full name. So it's Robert Freund and then law at the end. Just one word. So that's, that's F R E U N D. Okay. So guys, if you own a company and you have influencers, which basically all of you do now, um, this is a good guy to follow because he's the only guy out there that I've seen putting out super valuable free information in the favor of brands and influencers.

And, you know, not charging for it. I think it's really brilliant what you do. You know, you give away enough information to make yourself the authority and then pick up the customers. So it's really cool to watch you do it. It's really appreciated. But more so, we become friends talking just regular life and just talking about uh cars mainly and uh and you know success and the things that we normally talk about when the world isn't falling apart so we're excited to have you as part of the show bro yeah it's it's been awesome to check out the facility i'm so

impressed by this place like i knew i was going to be impressed but i i didn't realize quite the level that you were on with everything dj was showing me all the details like the american flag is the size of your first office yeah and that photo out there is in the place that you were on with everything. And DJ was showing me all the details, like the American flag is the size of your first office. And that photo out there is in the place where you're standing in the photo. And it really impressed me that those kind of details are what helps the rest of the business flourish at the level you're at. And yeah, I'm just really impressed. Oh no, dude. Hey, look, you know, here's the thing about us is we're not very smart. Okay. So what we do is we try to make it up with being very diligent about everything that we do.

And so far it works pretty, pretty good. And hopefully our customers appreciate it. But yeah, man. So what are we going to talk about today, bro? Yeah. I mean, so you handle a lot with influencers. And so before before the show you guys remember miss cleo oh i do call me now yeah yeah so we were just talking i mean i forget even

how we got on the fucking subject but did you know that during the two years that miss cleo was running she was averaging 24 million dollars a month in income no way she made 600 million dollars in two years on her overnight ads on her call me now shit no shit yeah that's what happened to miss cleo so she died in 2016 oh she did she i had no idea did she see it coming so yeah this is gonna be my last call but the thing is man she so when she passed in 2016, her net worth was only $1.5 million. And so I just thought it would be a nice entry conversation to this.

I mean, you handle it with influencers a lot. You guys handle it with influencers a lot. One, for me, I can't even comprehend how you go from $600 million and then 10 years later you have nothing right like how does that even happen like how about this we literally just talked about this i can answer that real simple all right the more you make the more you're going to spend all right and if you got bad habits we talk about this with our because we deal with a lot of people who you know quite frankly in the beginning when they started with us, they weren't making very much money. And now some of them make millions

of dollars in a year. And, you know, those bad habits just become, uh, exacerbated and exaggerated over time. Yeah. So like, you know, if you, if you're running your bank accounts, uh, you know, to zero right now, it really, if you, if you make $10 million a year, you're going to run it to zero. You know, that's why financial responsibility is such an important skill to learn. Um, same reason why we see all these NFL guys get these big chunks while they play, you know, and, and, and I know from for sure that, you know, they have the NFL rookie symposium, but they don't really teach these guys much. They don't teach them how to be financially responsible or, um, how to manage their money. And then they get all these people coming at them, uh, who pretend to be experts as, you know, we're going to invest this money in

this and bro, look, I'm pretty experienced and versed in, in, in that sort of thing. And some of these dudes are just really good scammers. And what's the saying? A fool and his money soon part ways, man. That's right. Well, I mean, there's a book. It's called The Automatic Millionaire. I've made everybody read it. All my guys read it. I send it out to everybody who's in our network. I'm still convinced I've sold more copies of that book than that guy has sold of his own book, but it helped me out so much. I'm glad to return the fee. And I always I, you know, I always learned to manage your money in a percentage. Like if you save 12% or 15% of your paycheck, it is more money you make. You save the exact same percentage. It's a, it's a shift that just continues to go. Whenever you get quick rich, which is what we were talking

about earlier, dude, you, you, you have this idea that hundreds of thousands, if I won $500,000, I'd be set for life. I wouldn't spend every fucking dollar of it. You know what I mean? Because that money goes fast. And I think you went and people start growing success. They have people that want to go with them and then they feel obligated to take them with them. And then there's this perpetuating cycle where once you're in it, you can't get out. And so establishing those good fundamental habits and compounding them over a long period of time is how you create success. No different than this building. Right. You know, no different than your career, no different than life. You have to learn to stay disciplined to a program. And when you do that, when the variables change on the outside, the equation never changes because you're disciplined

to the process. So that's- That was exactly my thought. Because like I said, Rob and I were talking about that. It's like, dude, over half a billion dollars in two years. Not one person came to you and say hey miss cleo you might need to call me now take 10 million set it aside but like nobody told you the problem is bro everybody said that to her and they all took her 10 million they fucking ran with it yeah don king called her yeah you know you ever seen the mike tyson documentary don king straight jacked that dude you know yeah i mean that is that is one of the biggest reasons why money goes away. Like you were talking about is people who,

if you're not savvy enough to identify who's trying to scam you and you can't build the right team around you, it's also like sad but true. But a lot of times family members will come out and say, oh, I'll manage your money. And then that turns south really quickly because money does change people. And there were a couple of athletes that my old firm represented where that was the exact situation somebody's brother decided to manage this person's money and ended up just stealing under from him and because he trusted

his brother to keep an eye on all of it he wasn't keeping an eye on it he didn't even realize that this was happening until it was basically too late so yeah building a team that you can actually trust is so dude and and trust but also trust in their skill set you know what i mean like dude there's lots of good people that that have well and they're well intentioned right that will come along when you start making money this is actually refreshing to talk about some normal shit i just want to stop and say like the reason i'm so pat i just gotta i'm gonna get off on the fucking crazy shit for one second but like dude it feels so nice to talk about regular things like can we all just stand the fuck up and tell these motherfuckers to fuck off so we can get back to fucking killing it just move on yeah because i'm

tired of it so anyway back to making money yeah um no back to keeping money yeah that's right because it's two different things that's right it's offense and it's defense. And so a lot of people are well-intentioned, right? And you trust them, but they don't have the skills to back it up. Right. And, and, and that's it. That's something that you should all consider as you start. Cause a lot of influencers, a lot of entrepreneurs that makes up the core of the show. Uh, in fact, we're all influencers in some regard. And if you're not getting paid for it, you probably will soon. That's going to be the new economy. You guys have to understand that, first of all, making money is a great thing, but that's

only half of it. Then you've got the defense side of it too. You've got the side of protecting it. You've got the side of looking out for it, being responsible. Then you have being ethically responsible with how you spend your money. I mean, there's all kinds of things that go into money that nobody really ever considers. They just want to see that top line number. Oh, I'm making a million bucks or I made a million bucks. And honestly, guys, if that's your goal, it's too low. It should be way more than that. Um, and I don't care who you are listening. You could be working the fry counter

at McDonald's a million bucks, ain't a million bucks anymore. So you need to be thinking really, really big, especially with all the money they're printing right now. But, um, you know, trusting your family and friends is one thing, but trusting your family and your friends with, to have the skills to manage your money, that's a whole nother thing. What would you say, dude, is one of the better ways for people to actually find, cause there's so many people out there that are just, I mean, dude, you live in social media world too, and you know, like there's a lot of people out there that are completely full of shit.

Yeah, I mean, one of the smarter things you can do is find somebody that you look up to in whatever your lane is and ask them who they use. And, you know, maybe somebody at your level is not using the same type of person that's affordable for someone just starting out but i bet that those people are willing to give them a recommendation like if you went to a huge international law firm that charges over a thousand dollars an hour probably they'll

be able to identify someone they know that's like look we're not for you but here's someone we trust get a recommendation from someone who you already know is legit rather than i mean people are getting really good at i mean i get dms from so-called agencies that want to you know grow recommendation from someone who you already know is legit rather than, I mean, people are getting really good at, I mean, I get DMS from so-called agencies that want to, you know, grow my Instagram. I've been around the scene enough to know that it's all BS or a lot of it is the kind of people who would call DM me usually are. And it, it, if you don't have a lot of experience starting out, talk to someone who does and see who they would recommend or who they use would recommend. Yeah, man. And dude, here's another thing. Like what's your opinion on even working with people that you know, when it comes to money, because I've not ever been in favor of that. Like

I've never been in favor of working with someone who's like already my friend or already my family. I actually want the opposite. I want someone who doesn't know me, who doesn't know my personal past or anything like that. Because guys, people like to talk about people that are making money. And do you really want your friends saying, oh, no, dude, I represent that guy. I know exactly what he's doing, blah, blah, blah. Do you want those conversations? It's something to think about. Yeah. I mean, there are so many business disputes and nasty partnership fights that started out as friendships. And if you're going to do that, it's extremely important to get everything that matters in writing as soon as possible. And you can't look at it as like some people get offended when they see a contract like,

you don't trust me. It's not a trust thing. It's there, one, to protect everybody involved. And also as a memory thing down the road like what exactly did we agree about three years ago yeah because the the the kinds of fights where people knew each other initially are just always more drawn out and more dramatic and more problematic than if it's not a previous relationship so if you're going to do that just document everything and understand that if it does go south it's not a previous relationship. So if you're going to do that, just document everything and understand that if it does go south, it's not going to be pretty. Yeah, I think a lot of the people in that situation, the issue is they're bad communicators.

You know what I'm saying? Like emotional communicators. I used to be one of those guys. You pull out the piece of paper. I'm like, what the fuck, dude? We're fucking cool. But then one of the people we did business with presented me with a contract a while back.

This is 15 years ago. And the way they presented it to me was so nice that I didn't have a problem with it. And this is how the conversation went. And I think this is useful for you guys out there that are going to have to go through this. The way they present it and the way I present contracts now, and it's true. And this is how I operate. Look, this is for just in case,

and hopefully, here's how I want to do business with you. We're going to sign this contract or we're going to come to an agreement here, and then I'm going to take this contract, I'm going to put it over here in the filing cabinet, and we're going to forget about it unless we can't solve something

with a conversation and a discussion. We're going to have meetings. We're going to discuss things. I'm not going to pull this out and shove it in your face unless we get to a point where we really cannot agree. And I was like, oh, you know what? That makes sense. And that made it feel like way less offensive.

You know what I'm saying? I didn't feel like they were trying to not trust me or make me feel like I were trying to like not trust me or or make me feel like i was not worthy of trust it made me feel like oh okay well they want to build a relationship and this is just a little bit of an insurance policy and and you know what uh not one time and i've been dealing with this company ever since it's been 15 years have they pulled that out not one fucking time you know what i'm saying we've always and it's gotten rough a couple times like where we're you know mf and each other over shit you know but we're still able to solve it through

through you know dispute without pulling that contract out and i've i've just adjusted and that's how kind of we do it with with everybody is here's your contract it is what it is but it goes over here and it doesn't really come back and i feel like that's just a better way to present it you know i completely agree with you i mean it just a better way to present it you know completely agree with you i mean it's a tool there to make things easier when stuff gets difficult so you don't have to worry okay well where are we going to go to court like are we going to arbitrate it's it's set up we already agreed to it we can we don't have to separately fight over that as just like one example yeah it might go into agreement but it's like it is an insurance policy if we have

to use it this will make everything easier and it and people should and i know it's difficult to get over that but people should get over the initial the emotional response of oh this means this person doesn't trust me or a lot of times people depending on what kind of agreement i'm writing they'll say i can't present this it's too long it's scary. It's like it needs to have not every contract needs to be 20 pages long and filled with legalese and stuff. You can write a lot of things in a way that just sounds regular and still protects you. But some agreements need to have comprehensive language in there just in case. And the hesitancy of saying, oh, this will be intimidating or scary or something. You just

really need to get over that because if you revise it to not include something that would make it shorter, it's not going to help you when you need it. Yeah. Yeah, man. The, you know, in the last, you've been doing influencer marketing for how long? I've been focusing on legal stuff around influencer marketing since beginning of 2019. Got it. You look at the business shift that's happened and it's really interesting because you think in the 70s, 80s, 90s, even 2000s, right? For somebody to make $500,000, $600,000, $700,000, I mean, you were a white collar worker working your way through the channels, trying to create

a career and going to school and you got to go to college. And the shift to watching some of these people in the last, say, five years, take influencer marketing and build these careers that are in the same caliber of dollars and utilizing their own personal brand, it's much different. And when you look at the dichotomy of the situation. The 80s, 90s guy is extremely successful. It's in this huge infrastructure of how you make money and what it looks like. And next year, you're going to grow at 10% and this is what it is. To the new structure, which is really volatile, comes and goes.

The person's a personal brand. They're out there managing it themselves they really don't have any legal structure or protection or anything you know for you to see the the the holes or connect to these these influence at this point in time is extremely uh open market right now yeah how do you connect and protect these people how do you teach them how do you educate them like if you're a young influencer and you're listening to the show now, what should they seek or what should they ask or what should they think of a brand whenever they're choosing one? Yeah. I mean, part of what I'm trying to do through my Instagram page is just get issues on people's radar because ultimately it's a business decision how much risk you want to take on in whatever kind of marketing you're doing. But you need to know where the risks are to make

that judgment call and decide, okay, I'm comfortable with this or I want everything airtight or whatever. So my hope is that I'm presenting examples a lot of the times from the news of this person got in trouble for this or they went through some legal issue for this common practice. So people think, oh, I didn't even realize there's a trap there. So then it's like, if you start wondering where the other traps are, maybe you'll reach out to a lawyer or somebody with experience going through that to make sure that,

or to guide you through that process, that you're not stepping on landmines that you weren't even aware were there. And to your point about younger people coming into a lot of money really quickly through ways that did not exist 10 years ago even. Now all I gotta do is eat a Thai pot on YouTube.

Right, yeah. I'm there. It also opens the door for scammers or people who are less sophisticated, so-called agencies and stuff, to take advantage of people because they're younger and they haven't experienced, it wasn't a gradual path like now i'm famous and a lot of those people are so seduced by the idea of wow i'm going to work with a real agency like this is going to be the next step they're going to sign something without even reading the contract and those are the situations that

it's sad to see because a lot of times it's really difficult to get out of a contract that especially when it says you know i agree that i had opportunity to consult with a lawyer understand all this stuff and then they'll sign up just because oh my friend knows this agency or yeah they've got or they want to be cool right yeah and it it's there's so much value fuck up here i won't deal with an agent yeah we won't we won't even sign influencers that have agents and here's a lot of other companies won't either they're starting starting to do it. Dude, these agents are fucking predators. We've had agents literally tell the people to take a way less fucking beneficial deal just because they didn't like the fact that we didn't want to talk to them. Or they're likely getting a kickback from somebody else.

That's the thing that's interesting to me. You know, we have, obviously we have a company that's built on an influencer model, right? We were early adopters in understanding how that works and how the internet works and how to use it and what it means and how you can, you know, compound it. And so we've had the opportunity to deal with some pretty high net worth people, quote unquote, from a following or influence standpoint. And, you know, in negotiating these things, what I've always laughed because I get in this thing and I'd be like, you know, like, hey, you got to talk to my agent. I'm, you know, it's a 19 year old girl or 22 year old guy. And I'm sitting there thinking, what the fuck you have an agent? Anyway, I call the guy. I'll be on the phone with him. I'm talking to him. I'm like.

They're zero fucking totally clueless about fucking business. They don't even have, I mean, there's literally like the insight is like, hey man, explain to me some campaigns you worked on before. Give me some insight, like your experience. Well, you know, I'm a, whatever, you know, whatever their history is, but it has zero, zero understanding of influencer marketing or how to manage an individual. And you, and I even, I mean, there's one person, one young lady that comes into mind in particular. I know exactly who you're talking about.

Yeah. He got this girl because he got her a Chipotle deal. He got a Chipotle for life. Okay. That same deal cost her literally, she'd be making millions of dollars with us over the course of that same timeframe for some fucking free burritos. That was what, about three years ago? Yeah. She would have made five times more money than she's made total by just signing that deal with us. And now they bounce from brand to brand to brand trying to work the deal. And here's this guy, here's a young influencer

who's doing a fabulous job of building her brand or his brand. They get hooked up with the wrong person. They sign you into a bunk deal. Now they bounce you from brand to brand to brand. And then when they come to a credible brand, we won't sign them. Because they're already discredited.

They've already discredited themselves. Your voice is already diluted. Nobody believes someone that's been with 17 fucking brands in four years right nobody like you influencers out there who are signing with people for fucking one year or two or a year or six months and these little deals eventually all those deals that you're going to be chasing these little bitty deals your whole life because no no big brand is going to want to make an investment in you because your word is shit.

Yeah. Yeah. And the same thing that makes it easier to become famous online and build a presence makes it easy for people to pretend like they're legitimate agencies too. The barrier to entry to holding yourself out, you can rent a Lambo and go to a rented mansion and stuff, buy followers. And you know people do it all the time. Yeah.

Yeah. Constantly. And then- If anybody's looking to rent a couple, I it all the time. Yeah, constantly. And then if anybody's looking to rent a couple, I can make that happen. Times are tight. Got a vacant house, maybe. Got some date rates. Yeah. Yeah. It just takes more diligence now to figure out who's real and who isn't because it's so much easier to present a fake image. But this is a very, this is a, we're at a really great shift, I feel, in social influence marketing.

Because what once was the fake flex got you where you wanted to go. We are seeing, we have thousands, tens of thousands, 12,000 people that we manage in this format in some way, shape, or form. Authenticity has never been more valuable, right? Telling the truth, being real. And it's starting to create that division that we want to see on social media. Early, it was the flex. Now, iting the truth, being real. And it's starting to create that division that we want to see on social media. Early, it was the flex. Now it's the truth. And I think aligning yourself and finding to build your brand so that you're not a two or three year moneymaker on the internet,

but how to build a real brand is coming through being authentic and telling the truth. Learning that that compounding interest over time, if in fact what Andrew said, our brands are going to be, our individuality over time is going to be how we make our income, which is true. That's been always true, actually. It's just now it's coming digital. Learning that no one can beat you at you and finding people who add value to you is a huge advantage, especially early. So figuring out how to build the best brand possible and then aligning with people who are the best in their category as possible so that you can succeed together. Can we do this? I want to ask you guys this question because I feel like, again, you could consider me an influencer, right? But what is the real definition of an influencer?

Because I feel like that's diluted so much because you have so many people in this field. No, no. I mean, you got to think, influencers have been around for thousands of years. I mean, the most popular guy on the block who's created the most value by adding the most valuable to the block is who everybody listens to, right? That's 1950, 1960, 1970. It's just recently changed to a digital format

where everybody can compete. 100%. And what has happened is not just the biggest voice are able to monetize anymore. Now you have the medium and the micro biggest voice are able to monetize anymore. Now you have the medium and the micro influencers that are able to monetize as well. And if you want to be honest, the biggest value and the biggest person that you're going to want isn't the big celebrity that has 10 million followers. Because like I said, everybody knows that those people are pay per play.

What you really want is someone who is believable, who has a small network, the people they communicate with, that's a real human that could communicate. So it's not that it's a new way of selling. It's always been the way that things have sold. It's just that this new technology has created a platform for the everyday person to monetize their influence. And if their influence aligns with what they actually use and the way they actually live in an authentic way, they make a lot of money. And if it doesn't, they get washed out. Well, we see that a lot. And Andy, I know you talk about it.

You call it the Midas touch. But how important is how you talk about this on authenticity? How important is that, you know, especially in today's era where you have people like sports athletes becoming politicians, right? Like how, how important, I mean, I just want you to touch on that a little bit more. Cause you talk about, you know, it's super important about who you are. Well, I think the, the shift is the shift is it's happening or it has happened. It's has happened in our eyes. Cause we're, I'd like to think we're on the tip of the spear, but it's happening for the majority of people right now is understanding that your personal brand in the big picture in the longterm is going to matter because your network is going to be the thing that you have the ability to monetize,

even if you can't monetize it now. And so building value and who you are and the knowledge and information that you do have that could create value for other people. That's the trick. That's the key. That's the hook. So like, you know So I put away for all my kids to go to college. I don't know that my kids will go to college. My kids are going to learn fundamental aspects that can help people around them in their community, whether it's online or in person, be strong people of character that can lead other people to the promised land. Whatever the promised land is, right? If he wants to be in construction or if they want to be in design or they want to be in nursing, how do you become the most valuable person in your sphere so that other people look to you? And that's not going to be by way of college, in my personal opinion. It's going to be a way by developing extremely valuable skills to a subset of people and then monetizing them big picture and long-term. Right. So, you know, the reason these athletes become politicians, because right now we're in a popularity contest. Right.

We're not really, we don't trust the old politicians. We really like, you know, Walter Payton. He's a great guy. You know what I mean? We're,

we're working through these situations of, of popularity. I think long-term, I don't think Walter Payton's going to win. Yeah. I guess Walter Payton's out. I mean, like,

I don't, I'm sorry. Herschel Walker. I got, I don't know. He might win a Democrat ballot somewhere. Well, his son,

what's his son? He's got a son. Herschel Walker. Herscheler walker walker walker you're talking about christian walker no no no no payton's son played at miami he said yeah yeah you're thinking of herschel walker who's running for the senate in georgia correct i think he's my one christian walker who is an influencer he's a he's a conservative influence great running backs you know what i'm saying i don't know what to tell you but my point being is like my point being is I think the future we're just in a really unique shift that people haven't adjusted to yet. They're still think it's weird. They think, oh, it's, you got a little brand on the internet, you know, you're cool on the internet. No, no, no, no.

Creating value for the future. You know, like, and so that value cannot be taken away. You have to learn to, how to maximize it. And the cool thing up front, everybody figured out how to fake it. The cool thing is big picture and long-term, it is extremely transparent. And the compounding effect that'll happen over time is the true you comes out, the truth will come out, and then the story is told. So how do you continue to create so much value by telling the truth and helping people improve their lives? If you can do that, you will win. If you don't do that, you're going to be learning from somebody else who is winning. It's interesting to me how many people, I'm just sitting here listening to you guys talk, thinking about all the people

who waited on social media and didn't take it serious. And now you're going to see a big shift in politics, I think, based around social media horsepower real soon, because a lot of like I've met with a number of good politicians. These are good people, but they didn't necessarily work on building a brand over the last 10 years. And now the traditional advertising space is sort of diluted where people don't pay attention. So they don't really have any way to really reach people. And so what you're going to see, in my opinion, is a lot of people with social horsepower starting to fill these roles and in these bigger roles, it's going to be really weird. Like it's going to be, you're going to see like social media people like in office, like running shit because dude, that's where the eyeballs are. Yeah. I mean, if you have

an audience, that's incredible power. Yeah. And I and i mean who i was while you were saying that i was thinking like when was the last time i actually watched television and paid attention to an ad that was on tv right it's like if you run a political ad i'm i'm not going to see it yeah and and so many more people spend hours and hours on instagram every single day they're going to see that a lot quicker if you've got you know a real million followers or whatever versus you ran an ad on local news yeah but i think that's the validation too that we're going to see over time right you're going to have the ability to watch these people i mean the sad thing about the kardashians is they ruin the world or mtv cribs or whatever they ruin the world however they train a bad show i need to do my own sorry i meant to say

the real world the real world oh yeah he's over there shaking it look look our pro team the best team in the world all shaking their heads in unison about doing we're gonna do cribs on youtube at my house all right we'll do it so my point being is like the reality side of our life when we are the generation in the original real world. We are. And so we adopted getting into these people's lives and watching it and seeing it. Now it's transitioned to where it's everyone, not just the reality stars. It's not just Jersey Shore.

It's fucking everyone. Bro, think of Joe Rogan decided to run for office. Like nobody's beaten Joe Rogan. No. At any level. He would dominate. Yeah. And you know why?

I'd vote for him. Because he tells the fucking truth he's not a pussy okay and people know who he is and he's made a commitment for the last 12 years of his podcast he's done thousands of episodes even when podcast because podcasting if you you guys have been around long enough which most of you guys haven't in the early 90s it got popular then it went away for like 10 years and everybody was like podcast. That's for like internet nerds. Well, when that was going on, he was doing it. And now he's where he is because of that. But I think it's important too, to understand,

sorry. It's important to understand, you know, his passion is what put him in a position to do the podcast. You know, he loved MMA fighting and he would, he would, he was the announcer. He was the young kind of guy who had a good voice, who could communicate it effectively and talk everybody through it. Yeah. Before that, he was telling people to eat deer penises on fucking fear factor. Buffalo balls. That's what I remember. So you eat this Buffalo ball and it's a big veiny fucking thing. I'm like, dude, I would not buy a Buffalo ball. I'm fucking, I'm afraid I lose, but you know lose. But he followed his passion and continued to put out valuable content.

He's unshakable, right? And I think when you look at a brand and you're thinking to a young influencer, it's not about selling people. It's about being undeniably you. Don't shake. It's who I am. I got a fucking past. I fucked up. You own it. Stand for it and keep moving. And guess what? People can associate. Dude, look at every

look at every fucking big influencer out there. All of them have one thing in common. Every fucking one of them. They're authentic. Well, all every real one. No, no, no. I'm talking about the real influencers. I'm not talking about the motherfuckers that we all know have half of a fake following

and use all the hat. I'm talking about the household name motherfuckers jaco goggins rogan okay those guys are who the fuck they are and if you don't like who they are they don't really give a fuck and i know that because i know them guys they don't care uh portnoy nobody porter doesn't give a fuck if you don't like them you know what i'm saying they're just who they are and like it's so bizarre to me that that old mentality from the you know it really it comes from pre-social of you know the saying don't talk politics don't talk religion uh you know keep you know what i'm saying like to keep it out of the bar yeah the rules yeah the rules like we don't get political

we don't get this we don't get that look, you go where the fucking eyeballs are and what people care about. And you give your honest opinion on it. It's really simple. It's in this old mentality of, well, I don't want to make my brand political, especially in this day and age. You don't have a choice. Fuck you don't. Otherwise you're irrelevant.

I see all these social media influencers, some that we used to actually have on our roster that are no longer on the roster, continuously posting selfies and the same shit they were posted two years ago. And they're literally getting on social media, pissed off. No one cares about my shit. No shit, motherfucker. Cause when there was nothing to worry about, we like to look at your pictures. Now that there's actual shit going on, guess what? You're not, you haven't talked about it. You've just diluted your brand a hundred points by not letting your voice or your stance be known out of fear for what the retribution is. Bro, this is why America's in this spot.

America's in this spot over this old fucking rule where we don't talk about things that are important because we don't want to offend anybody and we don't want to lose any dollars. Dude, talking about the real shit in a real way regardless of what side you fall on actually equates to a whole lot of dollars that's what people miss well and i think you know at the end of the day it goes back to value and standing for who you are well dude and you know what even if you don't agree with us okay let's just say you have the complete opposite views of us and a lot of people do all right if they go at that authentically they're going to do well because there's a lot of people do all right if they go at that authentically they're gonna do well because there's a lot of people out there they fucking believe with those

people they look like joe biden he does a great job of it well i'm sorry you know what hey here's what we got to let's acknowledge that real quick um he's united the country more than trump did let's be fucking real that is a fact he did and dj we went that's a fact 37 minutes without one without fucking anything political no no no we i i did that one thing that was time out yeah okay time out time out time out well let's i want to go back to something too because it's important it's important to recognize the transition i mean we you know i'd we've probably built one of the pinnacle influencer models of companies in modern day era right like that's truth right can't argue well everybody else uses that's, it's truth, right?

Can't argue it. Everybody else uses it. I think it's pretty influential. Yeah. I mean, you know, and so, I mean,

it's, you know, people, people, I get asked a thousand times, you know, how'd you do this? How'd you do that?

But the thing is, is the original days of Instagram, you know, and these people that really have no value, the people you're speaking of, it was all right, Hey, I'm going to get on Instagram with my swimsuit.

Right. Then I'm going to Instagram and, and swims that swims that at three quarters naked then i'm gonna get more likes i'm gonna get seven eights naked where you go from there yeah right right right only fans and so you know it's it's allowed the progression where early on when social was relevant you got to look at kind of like you know you get to look at all the hot chicks you know nobody would know that you were looking at all the hot chicks and the dudes right you look at all the hot chicks. You know, nobody would know that you were looking at all the hot chicks and the dudes, right? You look at all the weird shit. So their followings got... Wait, what? What?

Hold on, hold on, hold on. Wait, wait, wait. Wait, we can't just zoom over there, bro. Hey, Joe, you got to put one of those... No, no. For real, though.

For real. For real. Because it's not just the hot chicks that have 18 million followers. It's all the... I mean, this is what our company stood against.

Like, hey, if you've got 18 abs and you want to keep posting pictures of yourself online, great. You ain't going to change nobody's fucking life. Right. Like, you're going to get seven eights negative. Great. What value do you have? What education do you have? Well, how can you help me?

How can you teach them? How can you provide the result that I'm trying? Be that and something else. But I think it's important, though, to recognize because these people who are starting brands and they don't understand social, those people, they may have 19 million followers in today's land. They have no value. That audience is dead because those people, you can't convert them. They're non-convertible. So you can't take 19 million people who just follow you because you get seven eights naked, guy or girl, I'll address it better. Because whenever you go to impress them with your

knowledge, you, that's not what they're there for. Yeah. They're there to see a seven, eights naked. That's the point. There's one-off campaigns with huge influencers end up being most of the time, a lot less valuable than if you have a long relationship with an influencer with maybe under 10,000 followers, but is completely aligned with what you do. And that's what they were posting about anyway. And whose audience is there to learn from them especially like there's somebody that i worked with who does uh do-it-yourself fashion stuff she has her her fans love what she does because they can they can learn from it and sort of recreate their stuff at home and they're like fascinated by the hands-on approach and she's educating people and if you're in fashion or something working with someone

like that is going to be so much more roi and just every dollar better spent than a 20 million follower campaign with somebody who only posts bikini pictures and you only get one post because it's all you can afford yeah and if you look at the comments on big influencers posts when they break from just posting about themselves and do something that's obviously they're only doing it because they're getting paid. A lot of the times the comments now are vicious because everyone's so quick to pick up on it. That's why authenticity wins. I mean, this is why being you is important. I mean, I can't tell you how many hours I've had on phones with influencers and coaching and moving them and going through it. I mean, I've been doing it for

the last 10 years. But understanding that I'd much rather have somebody that has 2,500 followers than somebody has 100. I mean, they're more relatable. They're more edgy. Wait, wait, wait. You said you would rather have somebody that has 2,500 followers than 100 followers? Sorry, than 100,000 followers. Oh, okay. Sorry, I misspoke. Because of the ability for them to speak to their crowd because that audience follows that person for a reason. They're their friend. You know what I mean?

They find value to the point. They share a common interest. And so figuring out if that common interest is going to work for us and them, it's so much easier of a transition because that trust is already there with 2,500 people. The 100,000 people, now I'm at the point where I can look at somebody's social in about 30 seconds. I can digest it and understand if this is going to work or not. But the 100,000 people, usually somewhere, if you dig deep, way deep down in your Instagram, they're seven eights naked. You know what I mean? There's a lot of followers in there. And the thing is, in today's world, there's tools. You can look at that stuff.

You can see genuine audience. You can see interaction. You can see engagement. We run tools all the time. I can see somebody's up fluent score. I can tell if they're convertible. So you can't fake your way through this game it's no different than you really than you could in the 80s or 90s you're gonna have to work your fucking way through the game and that's just the truth can we talk a little bit about guys about people so you found yourself you're authentic you're true to that how important that is to stay that way because i think on the flip side too we also see a lot of influencers who you know

they've they've amassed a huge following they're making crazy amounts of money and they still get lost in the sauce and start doing dumb stuff you know like how have you seen that a lot in your expertise yeah i mean i see it as much as everybody else basically i mean when it makes headlines we all hear about it and it's it's just treating your, if you're trying to become an influencer to better your life and make income and form relationships with brands and build something, then you need to treat it like the business that it really is and monitor, all right, well, what is it about my personal brand that's actually personal to me that helped me build this in the first place? And try your best not to lose sight

of that and treat it like you're showing up to work and not just showing up to screw around on social media. And the more you treat it like a business, and that can also include if you're monetizing through merch or something, set up an LLC, have things in place that make it seem to you and in reality more like a business than just a pastime. And you're probably more likely to keep the guardrails on when you go online and you're interested in posting something that's off brand or that might hurt you. I think that's super valuable, bro. Like that's something that everybody has to remind themselves of. You know, like when you get in those ruts where you're like, fuck, I don't know what to say or I don't know what to, you know,

I don't know what to, you know, post. I don't know what to, you know, post, um, you're getting lost in the metric. You're getting lost in, in the, how many likes am I going to get? How many comments am I going to get? When you whip out your phone, because you see something that is like meaningful to you and you talk about it, that's the purest form of content that people relate to. And, you know, I see a lot of people really mess this up because what happens is, and this is why the victim culture gets perpetuated so hard. Usually how this happens is the first time someone ever does that is when they're having a bad time. So the first time ever they figure out about how to be vulnerable or how to be authentic is when they're highly emotional

in a bad way, right? So they pick up their phone and they tell this story about this thing that happened to them or this medical condition or something real that they're going through, right? And people respond because it's authentic and everybody has empathy for that. And what happens is those people, the next two days, let's say the weather changes, right? And their problems kind of flow away because that's what happens, guys. The weather's going to change. The sun's going to come back out and you're going to be like you were a couple of days ago if you just give it a minute. And when that comes, they forget about how that story. Right. And instead of attributing it to them being authentic as to why they were highly engaged with, which is why they attribute it to them being the victim. And they start to tell these sad stories over and over and over and over and then people tune the fuck out and dude like it's it's so frustrating for me when i watch influencers go down that road because it happens all the time and then it creates this situation yeah i know i know exactly who the fuck you're thinking about and and and, and then they become like these, these whiners that nobody wants to listen

to. And like, guys, the reason people responded wasn't because of your sad story. It was because they have a sad story as well that they, that they empathize with. And they said, man, it really fucking sucks. And they appreciated the fact that you were like authentic about sharing it. It wasn't necessarily that you were struggling. And, uh, you know, if you guys could remember that, like you can, you can have those authentic moments and all different types of situations. And if you watch people who are, who are really good at that, um, the people you follow, right. The people you are naturally engaged with, most of them are authentic in the moment. Most of them are talking about real shit that's happening. Most of them are talking about, you know, things that they're

really into, like this woman that you're talking about, who's with her hands on with her fashion, right? Most people just like that sort of authenticity. It's not being a victim in whining that gets people to engage. It's the authentic nature that comes with that. Yeah. It's also important to remember that engagement doesn't always mean quality. Right. Like just a small scale example with my stuff. Sometimes I'll post just a static image talking about some case or whatever,

and it'll get 3,000 shares, which is a lot for my little page. But in my videos, maybe won't get half as many likes or maybe only 30 people will save it. But anytime I meet somebody in real life who's familiar with me, they only talk about the video stuff because that's what they remember. And that's why a lot of times they'll reach out to me in the first place. But if I were looking at it like, well, I guess I should only post the stuff that gets shared 3,000 times. None of that would be helpful to me or very little of it. So to your point about an influencer who posts something vulnerable and sees, wow, I got a million likes on that. I should just keep doing that. Yeah.

Yeah. It's not that that is an indicator that that was the most quality thing you've ever done. Right. It's not that what gets you the most attention is something you should do every single day, even though that's tempting because you always want to chase that. And that's the trap that we've seen them fall into. I see this with a lot of the fitness influencers, men and women, who they overpost their bodies. We know that your body is part of the deal, but people are interested in how you got that body or what it takes to keep that body or the struggles that you go through for that body or the victories you have, you know, they want to see that authentic shit. They don't want to see some just person they think is. And, and, you know, also, as I'm talking this out, a lot of it has to do with ego

too, because a lot of people who are in a place they enjoy, um, they enjoy the idea. I know in the entrepreneur influencer space, there's a lot of guys who enjoy the idea of feeling superior to everybody else. So they like that, um, all the younger entrepreneurs, younger in the game, not younger in age, like just the beginner entrepreneurs, they like to feel like they have something that these people don't. And that's why they're successful. When in reality, that's not true. The truth is they've done things or they've done things long enough, or they have a circumstance that's allowed them to be there. They're not different than you. And so what happens is we get a lot of influencers

who have, uh, they have attached their identity to I'm this superior person. And instead of like actually providing that valuable content, like how do people become like you? They just keep pushing this shit out and then they can't figure out why their brand's not valuable. You know what I'm saying? You're not, dude, there's three things that you got to do to, to be an effective influencer. It's really simple. You got to educate, you got to entertain, or you got to impact. Okay. And those are the three things. Like if you do those three things, one of those three things is going to be valuable to the equity of your brand. If you do things outside of that, that are self-serving for your ego purposes, they're going to dilute your brand. And that's how you should think about it.

I got a lot of questions about this. so I'm going to talk about it today. We just fucking talked about this. The number one fucking bullshit line on the internet is, people keep asking me, but nobody's asking you shit, motherfucker. That's your ego. Yeah. But there's a couple of things that's right. Whatever comes out of their mouth after people keep asking me, or I got a lot of questions, is something that they want to talk about, that they want to brag about.

Serving their ego. Yeah. And dude, so stop using that line want to brag about. Serving their ego. Yeah. And dude, so stop using that line, motherfuckers. Like at least be original and say something like, you know, hey, this is what I want to talk about. Like, I mean, fuck, dude. It's authentic. Yeah.

No, but I mean, so to your point though, right? Static post video, static post likes video. You've seen the progression of the influencer model go from static post to video. Why? Because the authenticity is really hard to fucking duplicate inside of video. You've seen the progression of the influencer model go from static post to video. Why? Because the authenticity is really hard to fucking duplicate inside a video. Right. And that's why everybody's like, oh, I'm uncomfortable on camera. Well, guess what? I was uncomfortable on camera too up front.

Me too. And I got myself out there and I figured it out. And guess what? Give me that motherfucking phone. I'll put any video down you want. But people love to see behind the scenes video. It's very hard to Photoshop a video. It's hard to Photoshop your life in a video. And when I'm coaching people and helping people figure out or establish their brand, I always tell Tander's point on three things. You can only be three things. And for me, it's fitness, family, and business. The only three things I post about, because for you to be the jack of all trades, master of none, nobody's going to follow you.

Nobody's going to want to be you. You don't add value. I only do three things. That's it. You come to my page, I talk about three things. My kids, the business, or fitness, and that's it. Because guess what? I'm not going to teach you how to change oil in your fucking car, and I'm not going to act like it because it's not me. So understanding, hey, man, you've got to figure out this to the point of my kids in college or not going to college. You have to figure out what you love to do and just do that and do it really well and teach people and educate them and to do and just do that and do it really well and teach people and educate them and entertaining them and impact their lives and create change. And in a small microcosm, you can monetize that at a big level. We have people that have 5,000 followers

that make $25,000 a month. I mean, it's very regular around here. And so understanding that your ability to help people change their lives or help them solve the problem that they have, we all have the same opportunity on this little fucking screen. You can either start doing it or get passed up. Which one you want? You know, what's funny to me, dude, is like, I think about all our buddies who are professional guys, like they're professionals, right? Doctors and shit like that. They're all mystified by this shit, right? Like they're like, but then I remember like four or five years ago, those are the same fucking guys that were like, oh, there's Andy. He fucking thinks he's like a celebrity on the internet you know and now they're like oh how

the fuck did you do that you know it's like dude you gotta get my shirt off hey got a thong yeah listen that works a little bit dude you know it works what do you look like in a thong yeah it's gotta be an ugly ass side i sell my i sell ones. I mean, that's how I'm making I bet you do. I bet you do. Worn thongs. Have you represented any OnlyFans people?

Yeah. And that whole... Have you seen the money these people are making? I have. Holy hell. It is unbelievable. It is shocking.

The soul is for sale. Yeah. When I heard this out of the gate, I mean, some of these gals and guys that you watch

on OnlyFans, I mean, these people making you know three four five hundred grand a month yeah for showing their butthole yeah for real and their elbows and i'm gonna tell you if you want to build a long-term brand don't do that if you want to make some short quick money do just that my wife we were talking so so the joke about hey i gotta you can rent my car and house for a photo pic i'm we're getting ready to move and i was telling my wife you know because you know listen moving's hard and just like this is real this is real rare getting ready to progress through life and get back into a money situation and it makes you a little uncomfortable maybe and you start talking these things through and we had to only say well rocky here's the deal you get on

only fans for like three months we fuck cover the gap real quick. You know what I mean? Like real quick. Nobody will know. You don't have to show your face. It's just rock and roll. You know, hips to shoulders. Dude, look, I don't necessarily give a fuck if people do OnlyFans. Like people got to pay the bills, you know?

Here's my recommendation. If that's you and you're going to do it. Do it well. No, realize this. You're a professional athlete. Your contract will expire and you should be responsible with the funds that you make here's where i have a problem with it i see a lot of the especially the women i see a lot of women who weren't making shit on social right uh they're now making a lot of money you know they're out buying a fucking lambo and a fucking

this and they're talking about how they're a bad bitch and this and that. And this bitch, you're showing your butthole. Let's be fucking real. You, everybody else got a butthole too. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm just being serious.

So like, this is probably one of the most realist fucking conversations we've ever had. So let's not talk about bad bitch. You're showing your butthole. Okay. No. And I can respect it. I can. Yeah.

But I ain't going to respect that. You're some bad-ass entrepreneurship. That's right. Like, okay, now if you take that money and you flip it into real estate or you flip it into something or you turn it into a real brand. This is the same argument I've had with all the e-com entrepreneurs, the young guys and the young girls who are 20 years old. And they're fucking, yeah, they're making funnels and driving a Huracan because they made a couple hundred grand, right? And they want to flex. Look, dude, the way to win this fucking war, and this goes for the OnlyFans girls. And like, look, dude, if that's what you do, cool. I really don't care.

I'm pro freedom, bro. That's to the core. I don't judge. I really don't. If you're an exotic dancer, whatever the fuck you do, you got to pay the bills. Totally cool. But think about it in a way of how you can't do this forever. Just like a pro football guy can't play 50 years in the NFL. He's going to play. If he's a legend, he's going to play 18 years. If he's a regular dude, he's going to play four. All right. So what are we going to do with that money?

How are we going to leverage that into our income for the rest of our lives? Because guys, you're not going to be young and beautiful your whole life not to mention only fans could disappear like it almost did yeah a few months ago and then there's a lot of panic going on for sure competitors will come through and there was a lot of people who weren't panicking because there are a lot of smart women out there who are building that into businesses i know a lot of right and uh look man i i and if you need a place to put it call aaron wags you know he's got some franchises he's got some shit going on so girls if you're struggling where to put your money call aaron wagner yeah and you're welcome yeah dude listen

that out all the young guys that i know that dude's fucking doing it i went in on that hot chicken franchise though man wait i just had a great fucking pun how much fun do we have going up visit him? Oh, it was fucking amazing. Yeah. No, I said that was a shameless plug. You get it, butt plug? You get it?

No, no, he didn't hear the show yet. Two thumbs in the butt. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So we have a new show. You put two thumbs in his butt? No, no, no. That's not the show.

That'll get likes. Yeah, whatever. Hey, whatever for the gram, bro. We take care of each other, all right? Authentic. Hey, you said be authentic we got bigger thumbs we're about the same size so dude we're fucking you didn't hear the show today no i told you i didn't need dj cruise the internet no we got a new format all right so dj just put shit up on the on the screen and then we talk about it

did he fail at that too sort of because we were supposed to be a funny show and then he like put up all the hardest like i'm over here thinking like all right we're finally gonna have a fun show and this motherfucker's putting up like the darkest shit on the web and i'm like well fuck bro so you know it'll get funnier guys i promise but yeah dude searching for a new host so how are we how how the thumbs in the butt works in this scenario in this particular situation do tell yeah what the fuck is wrong with us a lot yeah i know so but we're authentic so there's so there's a segment at the end of the show it's two thumbs up all right that's the segment so you either get you either get it's called two thumbs. It's two thumbs up. All right. That's the segment. So you either get, you either get, it's called two thumbs.

You either get two thumbs up or you get two thumbs in the butt. All right. What was the segment? So I posted this, this headline, which, you know, on the surface sounds fucking amazing. Two thumbs up. So the headline was, you know, a guy, a British man visited 51 bars in 24 hours. That's fucking two thumbs up. But for Missouri, I'm with it.

But you start digging into it, he only had to drink four ounces of any beverage at that bar. And over the course of eight hours, it was only like 17, 12 ounce beverage. And the four ounces didn't have to be alcohol. It could have been anything. It could be any beverage. So instead, you know, if that was four ounces of beer

at all those places that's 17 beers 17 beers in eight hours ain't that big of a deal for a professional drinker like myself yeah all right i've done that many a times in my life so have you i'm assuming many of us have all right we're from fucking missouri yeah we don't have nothing else to do here motherfuckers we drink beer and what i say we run around with our confederate flags naked yeah that's authentic bro that's what they think in la they're like you guys are from missouri yeah you're fucking your s'mores outfits yeah that's what it is no no bro it's just s'mores outfits bro that was the funniest fucking part of that show bro the s'mores outfits

i almost forgot about that see i'm out like i haven't listened to this least informed guy on the internet that's right that's right it was fucking good listen to the show if you want to hear the joke because we're funny as fuck don't think you're dodging about this two thumbs in your butt though because you guys are trying to get out so this guy got two thumbs in the butt because you failed you fucking dude listen not as impressive as the headline no it was fucking bullshit yeah it was a bullshit headline like 90 of them no like 98 of them yeah it was a fake instagram post yeah it was cnn for the likes for the likes for the gram agreed dude you got anything for us to look at today oh i mean that's your job for the minute let's talk about something so dude what would you what would you give, what would your advice be to someone who owns a company, all right, and isn't quite sure how to start?

Because I get this a lot. Because a lot of these guys that we know that are professionals and own brands, they're like, man, they still haven't caught on how to work with influencers. You know, they call us a lot and they're like, hey, hey man, I got this person and they do this. And how do I work with them? They don't even know how to work with them. Could you run through basically a couple of basic steps for someone who hasn't signed their first couple of influencers and has no idea that would help protect them and make a productive relationship? Yeah. Usually I get involved once the relationship has been set and it needs to be documented. And so you can actually get the campaign going. But I know a lot of people who

work in agencies that are specialized in matching brands with influencers and finding influencers that will actually work for the brand and so on. And I know what you should not do is just cold DM a whole bunch of influencers that you found on one of those services that will find people for you with some impersonal message and hope that something will stick to the wall. That's a waste of time, number one. And it's also not a great way to start a relationship with somebody that you want to represent your brand. And it's not just like, oh, this influencer is now representing me on social media the way most people would think of it.

Legally, if an influencer says something about your brand as part of a campaign, that is your brand advertising. And so you're on the hook for stuff they say if they say something that you wouldn't be able to support. So they're literally representing you. So to start off a relationship with an obvious copy paste message that shows you didn't really do any work on them, and it works the other way too. If you're an influencer reaching out to brands, don't make someone think, even if it's not true, that you just are spamming brands trying to catch whatever deal. Lead with something that shows you did your minimum homework, and much more the kind of intro that's much

more likely to turn into something good for for both parties but if you are having trouble identifying influencers that will work with you there there are legitimate agencies out there that will help you with that and there's all kinds of tools now that if you know how to use them I think can help match you as well usually like I said what would I get involved with is making sure that both sides are clear on what they want out of this campaign and who's giving up what and getting what and for how long and where and stuff like that. Because it's so, so common for disputes to happen where, I'll give you an example. And this comes up all the time. Let's say a brand's sending out free product to influencers and the exchange is you create one Instagram story in exchange for getting this free product or something. on their own page stitching those Instagram stories together. They think, well, because those people created the content

in exchange for the free product, we can do whatever we want with that content. But that's not the case unless you had an agreement specifically saying that. You need to have a publicity rights release from the influencer, you need to have something saying that you have the license to use the content in your own advertising, stuff like that.

And it's so common for brands to want to just do everything in influencer marketing all at once. And you can save so much time and headache and stress and attention away from your business if you're not really thinking about, all right, what steps do I need to do to plan for this and actually have something documented that will... And this goes back to not really being a trust issue. It It's more like I have in my mind this for this campaign. Let me make sure that this person on the other side understands what I'm thinking and vice versa so that you're clear and you can quickly nip those things in the bud when they come up. And they will come up. If you have a big

enough influencer campaign, there's going to be disputes even if there's no reason for them. And if you can point to like, well, here's exactly, there's nice ways to do it, of course. Like, you know, we value you. We want to keep this relationship going. Here's part of the agreement that we had where it says we could use it in print or something or on this platform. And that's important too, because guys, when you're dealing with influencers, it's really no different than dealing with employees. In fact, in this, in this way, you know, it's different personalities.

Sometimes people roll out of bed, the wrong side, and they're fucking mad about nothing. And they're going to call you mad about nothing. And you're going to be like, what the fuck is going on? And you have to solve it, you know? So, uh, you have to understand that sometimes those conflicts are going to come just because someone's having a bad day. Uh, and you know, hopefully you're not the kind of person that makes things hard on someone because you're having a bad day, but that does happen both ways sometimes, you know? So it's very important to get that set up. You know, what would you say for, um, you know, somebody who is, let's just say, you know, let's just use a doctor's office because I find we have arts, a syndicate where it's all entrepreneurs in there.

And we have a lot of medical professionals in there. And most of the time I found that medical professionals are terrible at fucking business, like literally the worst people at business. And the reason they're the worst people at business is because they think they're smart because they went to school to be a doctor. They think they understand business too. And literally everything else. This is why most of us hate to hang out with fucking doctors. That's the truth. Okay. Um, what would you give for advice to someone like that who literally knows nothing,

but they want to start to take their little brick and mortar operation and use influencers, how would they target influencers that would be relevant to them and then spark that relationship without coming across as generic? I think in that kind of situation where you have someone with expertise in a certain lane, I think you'd probably agree it's really important to surround yourself with people who know stuff that you don't and who are specialists at certain things that... Great leading question, by the way. Yeah.

Yeah. Right. Thank you. Isn't it true that it's important to surround yourself? Pretty analytical. But you know what? I do agree. So in that situation, what I would recommend is find someone who does that as their job

and treat them with the respect that you would of anybody else in your office. It used to be that social media managers were the high school interns and nobody really knew what they did and they like made pictures on canva or something it is a legitimate job that can really help you and there are actual pros who do it and break you too yeah and if you if you can find someone and again probably through a referral someone that you trust who can do that job and you and you have you have the ability to step back and let them do that job for you without trying to be overbearing. Because I have friends who do that job and they're like, oh, the client has hired me and yet they want to tell me how to do everything every step of the way.

And then they're surprised when it doesn't work out. So that would be what I would say. Find somebody who specializes in that work that you can trust and then just trust them to do their job. Let me add to this because I consult in this little category and either you learn to do it or your competitor is going to get better at you doing it and they're going to put you out of business. So there's an advantage to understanding,

okay, it's now a necessity. It's not like a plus. It's a fucking staple. And so you either figure out how to get better than your competitor at the at the social aspect and brick and mortar or somebody's going to put you out of business who's better at it than you are yeah and you know you take the doctor's office like take my wife for example it was really my wife's a nurse practitioner she does like injector stuff things like that

and two or three years ago she was real nervous well we can't do this this isn't like really accepted in our field well guess what great time do it. Great time to fucking do it. And she's kicked ass ever since, right? And opened up this entire category. Now all these people are doing it in that way. So you think that social media is not for you. I'm here to tell you that's you being weak because you're scared to do the work and get vulnerable and learn a new skill.

That's what it is. It's just a true. It's going to cost you. It's going to cost you everything. Yeah. Especially if you're in an area that if there is an area that's still hesitant to get involved in social media what an opportunity yeah yeah that's the truth man and i would say i'm a flip side too just to be fair there's a lot we deal

with this sometimes too you know like we get these younger influencers who happen to have a couple million followers right they're fucking 19 20 years old they got a couple million followers they think they're gonna come in here and tell me how social works. It's like, motherfucker, you know, the system that everybody else uses, we were the first fucking company to do it. So when you're talking to me, like you think, you know, some shit, realize you're talking to the motherfucker that fucking invented the shit and put it into play and invented the system that fucking literally every company fucking uses now we get this all the time these young bucks come in here and they're like oh i got two million listen you motherfuckers need to humble yourself because when you come across people that actually

know how this works they can take your two million followers and turn it into two million dollars a fucking month okay we dealt with this today oh yeah you know what i'm saying like and and and sometimes people want to shelter and it's's like, Hey, listen, you know, the competitive advantage that we have learned over time is, you know, we've been doing this particular piece, influencer marketing on social for the last 10 years, 10 years. And that experience and all the failures you need to talk about somebody through name, image, image, likeness, you know, asking you for royalties, like, you know how I learned that mistake? I fucking did it. You know what I mean? You know what I don't do anymore? Thatess you know asking you for royalties like you know how i learned that mistake i fucking did it you know what i mean you know what i don't do anymore that you know i had somebody call me one time like oh you used my picture on a video and you guys monetize it and

i want royalties for it so guess what i did i went into the instagram i took the goddamn post out i said now i don't need it anymore but my point being is like now moving forward when i put somebody in a video guess what i do dude you know humility goes a long way in this game it really does in business like just saying hey you know what i'm doing pretty good uh what can i learn from you you know and vice versa like i like to look at these younger people that come that we get in contact with most of them are wonderful people by the way um there's just been a few that think they there's a few highlights over the years yeah right for sure and if i told you the stories you never work with these

motherfuckers again, but I would never do that to someone because I'm not a piece of shit. The truth is that most of them are really cool and you can learn like as a company, you can learn a lot from the younger influencers who are doing things differently. You can learn about the new technologies and the new ways of doing things, but ultimately being humble with these situations on both sides and approaching someone and saying, Hey, look, we're, this is what we're, our goal is, and this is how we see you helping us. And we, our goal is also beneficiary to you as well, because, and that's something that no one talks about. Not many people talk about what the brand does for the influencer.

You know, most of the time it's, it's formatted as a one-way street. We're going to pay you and you go do this for us. But I'm telling you, one of the things that makes our company unique is that we try to contribute back to our influencers as much as we take from them. We want to build their credibility. We want to put them as an expert. We want to build their brand equity. And those things are valuable when looking for a brand to work with, guys. It's not just about the paycheck that you're going to take for the next six months. It's about what's this company going to do to help make you credible and build your expertise and what skills can they teach you and what can you learn from them and vice versa. And those are

the relationships that I think we both agree are the best ones. Not only that, I mean, 99.5% of our people have stayed. You ever notice that the people that also are the best ones. Not only that, I mean, you know, 99.5% of our people have stayed. You ever notice that the people that also are the highest converting influencers are exactly what I just described. They're the easiest to work with. They're the most humble. They listen and they're willing to teach and they're willing without this idea of, I don't want to tell you my secrets. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think because there's a, I mean, but look at our, our model in particular. And I think from a small business owner, this is very reputable. You have to find and come up with a business deal. That's fair for everyone. Yeah. And it's, Hey man, it's good for you to make a

one side deal. That's right. And I mean, and it's, and the thing is, is moving forward, people are smart. You know, like I had a deal one time to for $20,000, opposed to Febreze thing, a fucking plug it 20 grand. And we were sitting in my office. I'm like, don't do it. Don't do it. I'm sitting here thinking like, fuck out for 20 grand. I'm going to post a febreze thing a fucking plug it 20 grand we're in my office i'm like don't do it hey don't do it i'm sitting here thinking like fuck out for 20 grand i'm gonna post for a reason and andrew's like don't do it man yeah and it's true because it's like yeah because now for for the rest of the fucking time you'll see it you're for sale that's right and they'll see it and for your position and what our game that's not a good thing yeah and that's the thing is like you need to understand that sometimes you're going to do this for free. You know what I mean? And understanding there's a value to it and you being associated. And maybe it's something that you learn.

Maybe it's something that you can educate yourself on. And that story for me, like I wasn't going to post hashtag ad. It's not valuable. You know how many fucking millions of dollars I've passed on? I mean, dude, at this point in time, it's tens of millions of dollars I've passed on from companies wanting to advertise on this show or have me rep their shit. Tens of millions of dollars that I passed on. The only reason I passed on it, the only fucking reason. Well, there's two reasons. One, in every case, I wasn't an actual customer of that product. One was a whiskey that I didn't drink. One was a shoe I didn't wear and others were like that similar situation. Uh, and two, I want my word to mean something. And I, that's more important to me than fucking any amount of money. I want my people to know

when they listen to this show, uh, or buy my products that we actually represent that there's no, there's no ulterior motive here. I'm telling you what the fuck it is. And that's my most valuable asset. My most valuable asset is my authenticity and my ability to communicate what I, what I see as the truth. And I don't want them to ever question that. And that's why I don't do it. And in turn, that's made our brand much bigger. It's made the podcast much bigger. It's made all the other companies much bigger because people recognize that, you know? And so you have to really question when people come to you with an offer is how is this going to play out? What's this going to do to my personal brand? Because guys, we're still in

the beginning of personal branding. We're still in the, this is still the infancy. A lot of you guys think, oh man, I'm 45 years old and I haven't gotten started, bro. There is a guy I follow and I can't think of his name. He's a pilot. Uh, is he, is he the black guy? Okay. So I follow this black guy who's a pilot. He's got a big beard. I can't think of his name. He's fucking super entertaining, like super awesome. He's probably in his forties. Uh, does, does these really cool calls on the, on the, on the headset when he's doing, you know, like he's just an entertaining dude. But the point is, is like, he's building tens of thousands of followers by being authentically him. Like this guy flies a little bitty airplane. I cannot think of his name. If you guys can find the name, I want to say it because I really enjoy this guy's content. Cause it's fun,

but, uh, you're not too late to the game. It's just starting. You know what I mean? And the cool thing is here, and this is the coolest part, like tying it back to what you said earlier, how it used to be, what you said earlier, Sal, about how it used to be about just kind of showy. And now it's about authenticity. Now people are so over the showy shit.

You don't have to have it to win. You used to have to have it to win on social. Now, you've just got to have interesting things to say. So it really evens the playing field. If you are comfortable standing with who you are, what you believe, no matter if it goes along with the mainstream narrative or it doesn't or what's popular or it doesn't, people will listen to you because they know it's truly coming from what you believe. And that creates an opportunity to grow a brand. You know what I mean? It's also less risky legally if everything you're saying is true. I mean, endorsements and reviews have to be truthful. A lot of them aren't, but the law is that if you're going to endorse a product, it has to reflect your honest beliefs. So it's just safer if you're only promoting brands that you actually

use and like you don't have to worry about that dude i think i i just i i i not only is a good business strategy but i mean like think about your conscience like i could never i don't know it's just me like i couldn't do dj you and i talked talked about this two or three days ago when I was leaving the building. I'm like, uh, I was talking about our pre, I have my, my megawatt, my, uh, carnitine there. And someone asked me, had just asked me on my social, what do you use for pre-workout? And I was able to answer them honestly, you know, like I took a picture of my locker. I'm like, here it is. This is what I take. It's our shit. And I said, DJ, we were walking out of the building. I said, you know, it's such a good feeling, like truly believing in your brand. Like when I walk around our office and I know that all these people are here for the right reasons,

I know we make the best products. Um, I know that, you know, if I know that we're legitimate and like, it feels fucking great to be able to stand behind that. And like, I was making a comment to him, like, how do you, how could you, maybe some people just don't give a fuck, but like, I just couldn't stand behind something that wasn't real and wasn't what I felt the best. I just couldn't do it. You know, and it doesn't matter for the money or not, but I think having that level of standard and that level of integrity will always lead you to the highest valuable outcome in my, in money. Um, because it's real, you know? Well, I mean, that's

looking back as a retrospective, it's a great feeling. I think understanding it as a perspective, being a new influencer, I think the lesson there is don't always just take the money to take the money. No, you know, be you be unequivocally you. And if you don't use the product, you don't like the brand, don't endorse the product, don't endorse the brand. If you have to pass three or four deals to get to the one that you want, make that one you want happen because you're going to be way happier. You're going to be way more fulfilled. You're going to feel good about representing the product. When you're actually posting about it, you're not going to feel like it's an ad. You're going to feel like

it's just part of your life. Yeah. And you'll get followers over a longer time that stick with you too. For sure. If your page just becomes the ad part of a magazine, people aren't going to want to keep tuning into that. That's a whole nother problem with social, dude. These people who are ad whores, they go out and they sign deals with 15 different companies and every post is some sort of ad. Yeah, they're not even related.

Those people don't convert at all. And a lot of you guys think that's the way. They see that as success, but it's not true. Bro, I can tell you this. When we're looking at influencers, which we evaluate influencers every fucking Tuesday. And when I look at them and I look in their link tree and they've got six or seven or eight links, it's automatic no. It's automatic no. Because I know they're for sale.

You know what I'm saying? I want to get this out there because I is a, I got asked this question yesterday in one of our progression meetings. And we have a saying around here, there's never a wrong time to do the right thing, right? It's a Vince Lombardi quote, but we use it, hijacked it. I'm sure somebody else made it before Vince, but he gets my credit for it. And the question was, is how do you know if it's the right thing?

And the answer is, if you have to think about it, it's probably the wrong thing. Yeah. And your gut should tell you the difference between right and wrong. And when there's money attached to it, you have to learn to actually disassociate the money from the deal. Would you take it if it were free? Yes or no. I was talking to Megs in the locker room this morning about that. He was telling me and Cody that about, uh, about, uh, he said he was in a meeting with, this is our buddy who was just here visiting. He played in the NFL and he was saying he was in a meeting at the Steelers one time. And they had this big playbook that was like 700 pages long. And the guy pushed to the side. He's like, I only got one rule here.

It's do the right thing. There's a right thing and a wrong thing. You know, the right thing. And he goes, how do you know when it's the right or the wrong thing? And he said, the whole room got quiet and Jerome Bettis spoke up. And he goes, if you got to think about it, you already know. It's true.

Yeah. It's like 75 hard, bro. Like I argue you fuckers come to me with all these questions. It's so fucking irritating. If you got to ask, the answer is the harder thing. That's just what it is.

Like it's all, if you come to me and you say, should I climb Mount Everest or should I fucking do a jog around the block i'm gonna say what's the harder thing well but and i mean i'm struggling with this personally right now i was telling you you know we're considering because of our kids and mask and all the things that are going on i know you live in in cala china but in missouri we try to navigate those things. And I'm trying to get out to where my kids can be in an environment that's normal. Right. And it's going to be inconvenient. I'm going to have to uproot a lot of things that I've worked really hard to do over a long period

of time. It's going to change our lifestyle. There's going to be all these things. It is by far and away the harder choice without question. It's likely the right choice. Yeah. And what I tell you, I said, bro, you're going to fucking love it. Yeah. And it's hard, but right? Like in the moment, and this happens a thousand times a day for everybody in some way, shape, or form.

Like you have to look at it and say, okay, am I being convenient or am I doing the right thing? Dude, let me ask you something. No bullshit. Out of all the harder decisions that you ever had to make, the easier or the hard, how many times you make the hard decision and regret it? Never.

Okay, me too. Makes me think about the thing that Goggins says. I love that guy so much. Yeah, he's a stud, man. His philosophy of do something every day that sucks is something I think about a lot. To train yourself to get used to choosing the uncomfortable thing versus the easy thing.

And yeah, that's like exactly what you're talking about. Like get used to putting yourself in situations safer ones like am i going to actually wake up at 5 a.m and go to the gym do that because it sucks so that when you have to make real choices that suck you're used to doing that i think i honestly think that's a big issue of what we're seeing in the world today i think people are so comfortable with their lives that they're willing to now back off of things that they personally believe in because it's inconvenient. And guys, you know, that's a testament to where you're going in life, in my opinion, because if you're going to go with the

inconvenient or you're going to go with the convenient route and you're willing to sacrifice some of your personal beliefs to go with convenience, where's that line drawn for you? Where's it going to end for you? You know what I'm saying? Like if you're a lot, if you will allow yourself to be compromised, uh, value wise, because for convenience, you know, I don't know where, where does that stop? You know, I think that's an important question people should be asking themselves, you know, especially given the current situation, um, with the tyranny that's happening in this country. At what point is it going to get to be enough to where you decide that you've had enough?

And the scary thing is, is the way that this subversion works, communist subversion works, it's very much by design intentional. By the time most people wake the fuck up and stand up to it, guess what? It's too late late and that's why i've been so vocal and so political over the last two years because i understand that because i've studied it you know so you know let's get real deep on politics right now make the show look i mean listen it's a i mean there is an impact on social media with it yeah you know well a lot of a lot of influencers, bro, have completely diluted their brands entirely because they've ignored the topic.

People want to know what the fuck you believe because most people feel alone right now. Yeah, well, and it's scary, right? It is scary. It is scary. I mean, it's much like- Courage is always rewarded. Yeah. Fucking always.

Well, again, that's the harder decision, right? It's easier to be passive. And it's one of those things like there's a lot of risk there. And so it's why most people won't do it. It's because they see the risk reward and they feel that the risk is not worth the reward. But understanding that people value the people who will take the risk. And it's just much like taking a shot at getting on social media and trying to start something. It's risky. You know why? Because you get vulnerable. And that's why when you start looking at people that you value who have great influence, who can impact their

lives, it's why people support those people. So the lesson to the 20-year-old kid is perspective is a motherfucker. Meaning don't sell things, Don't be about things that you don't understand fully and, and, and can teach people and can add value to their lives. But compounding interest over the next 10 years, the truth always wins. The truth will always win. And understanding that if you stand your ground and if you stand for something and you're able to help people through life, you can win. And that's, that's the lesson. And so what what you got for us all right so i got i got i got i got three but uh i got three but let's see let's see how it goes this this first one i mean this sounds like me on a fucking old old saturday sounds like you two and two thumbs in the ass huh yeah missing turkish man joined search party for himself wow they could have wrote this about me hey what happened i don't know what's going on guys so so the story behind

this apparently this guy got drunk at a party wandered away from his friends okay his friends called the cops the cops put on this big fucking search party this fucking guy joins the fucking search party and it didn't fucking click in his head until they're yelling his fucking name he's like yo i'm right here i need to be with this guy how many times that almost happened to you i mean i don't fucking remember. So what? Yeah. I can't believe this dude's got the same name as me. What's that? You guys, you guys befriended another.

So fuck you guys, man. Oh, dude. Alcohol. Two thumbs. Hell of a drug. Two thumbs up. Two thumbs up. You guys want to do one more?

Yeah. Yeah. All right. Here's another one. Since we have rob in studio so this is uh both have to do with cali uh california and and kind of the law but it sounds about sounds about right for california california man sue psychic who said she could remove witch's curse from x oh man there's so much to work with there so yeah i mean so what would you want 25k

oh that's 25k in damages yeah we got we got to ask rob i mean what would you do so backstory on this is this man went to go see a psychic uh broke up with his ex-girlfriend and the psychic told him that if he paid her 5100 that she could remove the curse put a thousand dollar deposit ain't been sleeping right since so uh does he have a chance so the idea is like if the curse is removed they'll get back together or something his life will be be better than it was what does he care about his exes being cursed anyway i don't understand what his goal was but yeah i don't know goal is to get a thousand dollar deposit back apparently wait so what

so what happened here so this so this guy this guy's ex had a witch put a curse on him? I see. Okay. And so the guy went to the psychic and the psychic told him if he pays her 5,100 bucks that she could get it removed. She could remove it from him.

Got it. Okay. So this is like witch wars. Yeah, I guess so. So you hire a witch, I hire a witch. Yeah, we'll see how it goes. Okay.

It's like suing. What's that lady you talk about at the beginning of the show? Miss Chloe. Oh, Miss Chloe. It didn't come true. I'll have to follow this one. Now I'm really curious. I'm curious.

We'll have to circle back. We'll circle back on that one. I mean, almost certainly the guy doesn't have a lawyer and he's representing himself. For sure. I cannot imagine anybody would take that case. Yeah, especially for that. It would be interesting if the psychic hires an attorney and if so who i'll be curious about that and uh see how long it goes but you know it's hard to prove curses i don't think i've seen that done before

yeah i don't know man that's tough i'll tell you i was selling uh andy i told do we really need to prove anything anymore yeah but andy i was telling rob tantrums and got awarded shit i was telling rob about a story when we went to california how we were driving to the to the farm and there was this lady that was standing in the middle of the park and she was whipping herself whipping herself yeah yeah and like i mean so i saw the title i'm like california makes it bro there we were driving to speak at that event we were there for a couple weeks ago and uh we're driving down the road dude and like you see some weird shit in california man We were driving to speak at that event. We were there for a couple weeks ago. We're driving down the road, dude.

You see some weird shit in California, man. How long was the last time you've been there? Okay, so it's been a while. San Diego, Nutramar, 2015. I'm telling you. LA is a bizarre place. Even the motherfuckers that live there will tell you that. True or not true?

Absolutely true. You guys see some shit every single day that you never saw before yeah ever today on this particular day what we both saw we had never seen before i've never seen it before there was this woman what 400 pounds or 500 pounds like a large human yeah with a full fucking bullwhip whipping it around her back like in on the side of the street like like twirling it and then like snapping it on her own back like not like super hard or nothing but no yeah no no it probably didn't feel good well the best part of actually i mean we all look at each other right like what the fuck and the driver's like yeah maybe that was her yeah that was her outdoor workout yeah you had to show 75 hard listen i you what? If you want to whip yourself with a bullwhip for five minutes,

I ain't going to say it doesn't count. Hey. Dude, that was some weird shit. I take that back. Last time I was in California was literally when coronavirus hit. It was pre-COVID. I remember that. It was literally.

I was in Chinatown the same weekend that Pelosi was hugging. Say, we should be out hugging each other. And I was there. I was literally in the middle of it. And there's on the sidewalks. Now that I think about it. Yeah. So I retract my statement. And what were you there for? I just took Raquel for, oh, we're going for Jason Kalipas. Oh, that's right. That's right. Auction. Oh, fuck. You were in the Bay area. Yeah. We were like way worse than fucking LA. Oh dude. I mean, there's piss and shit. LA is like gold compared to fucking oakland i mean is it not it is yeah i

worked for the oakland district attorney for a summer in law school so some interesting field trips during that summer definitely yeah dude it's sad man like it's sad like it's like a forgotten people like almost like when you go to dinner like this is what la this is why LA bothers me so much. Like there's such an issue with homelessness, um, and poverty that it's so common that people don't see it. You know, it's, it's, it's like when I'm with my friends from LA, uh, not damn Fleischman cause Fleischman has a charity that actually helps this called a model citizen fund. Um, tremendous dude, by the way, one of my best friends, uh, but biggest heart of anybody I know. But, uh, you know, if you, my other friends, right. That are just, you know, like, dude, do you go to dinner with them? And like, for me,

this is just, it's hard to do. Like you go to dinner with them and you're in Beverly Hills at this nice place. And you just went in there for four people, spent a thousand bucks on fucking dinner. And you walk out and there's fucking people that are like literally fucking starving on the, on the fucking street, like right there, like in front of your face. And it's not, it's not just that they're there. It's that the people you're with act like they don't, they're not there. And like, that's what bothers me, dude. Like,, dude. And then I see all these politicians on TV talking about how they're going to fix all this shit and then making policy

that actually contributes to that even further. It's just, it's a hard thing for me to wrap my fucking heart around. You know what I mean? At some point in this country, guys, we're going to have to get real with the problems and stop supporting these people that are just doing it for their own benefit or to line their own pockets. We're going to have to get real with the problems and stop supporting these people that are just doing it for their own benefit or to line their own pockets.

We're going to have to deal. And guess what? Those people are going to sound aggressive when it comes to solving problems because the answers to hard problems are usually hard, you know? And I give a lot of hate to California, but I also have a lot of empathy for the people there because to me, it's a situation I would have a hard... Usually when I look at problems, I can say, okay, this is how we could solve it. We could do this and do this. That's a situation where I don't even know the fuck. I can't even fathom the solution to it because it's so bad. It's disturbing. Yeah. I mean, that's really it. It's like, it's such an intractable problem, or it feels that way, that it's like, what is the solution? I don't know what the solution is.

And my opinion is the people who have been tasked with figuring that out have done a pretty bad job of trying to figure it out. And it's one thing to have policies that don't work. It's another thing to, on top of that, make public statements that can only encourage the problem to get worse. Correct. Even if they don't reflect what the policy is that you're doing, to say stuff that's basically like an open invite to more people to come to California for that purpose cannot

possibly be helpful. Yeah. So it's frustrating that people who we look to, whether, uh, whether it's, you know, digesting the science or digesting an economic reality and then convey that message. Aren't thinking, well,

what's the impact? Or if they are thinking about it, they're thinking about it completely backwards. Right. What's the impact of me saying this about my policy, even if that's not the policy. And then the act surprise when the problem gets really worse. Yeah.

Acting surprised. And then, and then saying you'll fix it so you can get more votes again you know it's a it's it's frustrating dude um you know one of the things that always irritates me when i talk to talk to people that and i say don't you guys like see this shit like what do you think of that and their answer is always the same it's always the fucking same bro those people want to live like that that's what they say with a straight face. And like, dude, I've talked to plenty of homeless people myself.

They don't want to fucking live like that. There, there meant there's a lot of mentally ill. There's a lot of people that are incapable of taking care of themselves. There's a lot of people that have no literal, no other options or help fell on a time where there was no option for them, but to, to live that way. And, you know, to walk right past it and not care or not notice it, I don't know, man. It's hard for me to go there because of it. You know what I mean?

Yeah. And I mean, it's harder and harder to not care about it because the problem is getting so much worse so rapidly. There's not that many areas you can go to where you're not going to see that in your face every day. So eventually something is going to have to happen because you can't really just escape it even if you only dine out in beverly hills you're it's there it's there it's on every sidewalk yeah exactly you know that do you ever been in that restaurant the little door yeah yeah so that's

one of the places i like to go to out there and uh um i don't know if he still owns it but at one point lawrence fishburne was the owner or part owner. Yeah. They only got a little one shooter bathroom in there. You know, you know how they got that little bitty bathroom. And one time I was there and I'm standing in line and there's like four dudes in front of me.

And then there's, you know, a guy walks up behind me. I don't see who it is. And he's like, man, you guys sure are taking a long time. I'm like,

fuck this. I think that's Morpheus. I turned around. Sure as fuck. There he was like standing there looking at me like I'm in the fucking matrix and he's like yeah i own this place and i'm like cool place and like made like a couple dick jokes like you know about us going in the one single shooter playing swords and shit and then he bought me a beer and fucking it was just like no big deal but that was kind of cool that is cool two thumbs up

morpheus awesome dude two thumbs you know what is two thumbs in. Morpheus. Awesome dude. Two thumbs. You know what? Morpheus, two thumbs in. Awesome dude. He's a big dude, too. He's not a little guy. Really? Yeah.

He's a big guy. He's close to my size. Almost as handsome. Big thumbs. Yeah. One more or no? Yeah, I got one more. You're already sleeping.

No, we talk a lot about starting a little for Sellaville, right? Yeah, I'm down. Cool. So here go tennessee town just listed for sale a whole entire well what's included a one house and four general stores that sounds like a it's a good starting place that sounds like an all right thing man you get to live by yourself run four businesses i'll tell you what that's a highly competitive environment, though. One house and four stores. I mean, you got to really have to earn that business, man. Yeah, no shit.

Motherfuckers don't want to compete against me. Yeah, motherfucker. If you ran that business, you'd be selling shit to people in your own house. That's right. And that store would stay open. Enzo, hear me out. All right. We would be paying the bills.

That's all you need to know about. That's what you were talking about earlier about trusting people with your money. I was going to tell Anderson. Look, what happens? You trust me with your money. You live out there. What a city. All right.

So final thoughts, Sal. I think, you know, the show, you know, bounced around a few, few places, but I think as a, whether you're a business owner who has struggled to get into social or struggling with social or a young person trying to understand the fundamentals of social, it's here to stay. It's not going anywhere. And I think the argument for the fact that you need to start developing these skills now is here. You have to do it. It's a non-negotiable. And so the fearful things in life are usually the right choice or the things that scare you the most are the things that you should do and challenge yourself with.

And so my challenge to you is, hey, listen, it's really hard to get vulnerable. It's really hard to speak your truth and be you. However, the long-term investment payout on that is invaluable. Let's clarify vulnerable there real quick because a lot of people hear vulnerable and they think like tell your sob story. No, no, no. Humility in the sense of making sure that like, Hey, when you know, you know, and tell them that, you know, and stand for what you know, when you don't know, don't have an opinion. It's okay. Vulnerable enough to be authentic. Correct. What he's

saying. Yeah. And I think, you know, one of the best things that I've done for my own personal brand is like, Hey man, like, fuck, I struggle too. Well, you know, goddamn, I'm struggling right now. You know what I mean? Like, and that's part of life. You're going to struggle. And learning social media is part of, is just one of those struggles. Guess what? I've been through that struggle too. I remember the very first post I made. I remember talking to the first influencer. I remember all of these things. I've been there. I've done that. I understand that. And so sharing those struggles has been very valuable to building a career. And I would suggest that if you're struggling to get into the game, start today, start to tackle those struggles. And in 10 that if you're struggling to get into the game, start today,

start to tackle those struggles. And in 10 years, you're going to look back as one of the best decisions you ever made. What was the scariest piece of content for you to ever make? I think the first time I had to do a video on a story. When stories came out and had to do a video, it was really humbling because, man, you had only 15 seconds to make it work. Remember when we used to shoot these things and you had to be really good in 15 seconds and you had to get it done and you had to try to- That's no problem for you, though. It's not. I mean, if you've seen any of my early Instagram videos- No way, dude. They're awesome.

He's talking about two thumbs in his ass. No, no, no. Our early Instagrams were extremely creative because you only had 15 seconds to make it work. I enjoyed Instagram better when it was that way. It was fun because- Because you had to force creativity. Not only did it force creativity, but you had to really get uncomfortable and being

silly kind of too because it forced you to kind of like, all right, well, I mean, there's the mullet video and us- That's the best one ever. And you do all these stupid videos and of course, do you think I want to put on a fake fucking mullet and do an infomercial? No, I was fucking 30 fucking two years old. I was about to have my son like, no, I look like a fucking asshole. No, you didn't.

Everybody loved it. It was awesome. You know, and that was where the one take Sal thing came out. I was like, they put a wig on me. I fucking knocked that motherfucker down, walked the fuck out because I had shit to do. Right. And you start understanding like,

all right, you got to do all these creative things. Well, you're going to look like a fucking asshole. People are going to laugh at you. People are going to find value in the fact that you can have enough humility for people to laugh at you, but still try to help them. Yeah.

All right. Good shit. Rob, what's your final thoughts? I was thinking when you were saying that, like you have to be willing to be bad at something for a while to eventually be able to get good at it. And a lot of people I think are don't get started because they're afraid to be bad at it. I think I don't put out a lot of like it's not that creative, but still getting in front of the video for the first time that

didn't like that at all. I still don't really like it, but I understand like it gets easier and you get better at it. And there's a lot of opportunity on the other side of doing stuff that you don't want to do, sort of like we were talking about earlier. And you kind of just have to be willing to be bad at something for a while. I think I think also, too, one of the big hang ups that people have about video content is like you think like it's got to be perfect, right? Like you have this idea that you've got to make this video perfect. And when you first start, you know, you're going to make it 400 times.

Just like when you, you know, back in our day, we used to record our own voice on our answering machines, right. Or a voicemail. Yeah. And we'd record it a hundred times,

but God, it fucking sucks. You literally said the same thing 400 fucking times. Nobody gives a fuck. Yeah. Like everybody knows the beep is coming. That's when they want to talk, you know?

So like realize that nobody's as critical, uh, on you as you are yourself, right? Those little mistakes that you make and those little things, those are actually endearing. They're endearing qualities to the people watching because they real make, they, it makes you real. It makes you, you're, you're out there on the internet and it inspires other people. And they say, you know what? I like this guy. He's a real dude. He's authentic. So like, don't get caught up in the perfect game. You just get caught up in the do it game other people. And they say, you know what? I like this guy. He's a real dude. He's authentic. So don't get caught up in the perfect game. Just get caught up in the do it game. Yeah.

Those perfect, polished Instagram feeds, those days are over. Yeah, they're over. We don't care about that anymore. No, because everybody knows it's bullshit. Because we all did it. We all sat there, did the video 400 times. And then we're like, now we know what that guy did to get that. And this is now what we we want what do you think yeah i think what sal touched on a lot earlier about this authentic

authenticity off shit authenticity that's still not it that ain't it authenticity authenticity so you haven't learned to be authentic yet so you can't they haven't graduated saying the word gotcha 15 seconds um no but i think i think about it and I think about like what, what my job, my role in that is. Right. And so, you know, I think the consumers, the people who aren't in that category of influencers, your responsibility is to support those who are being authentic, people who are sharing the right values, sharing the right messages and be, be supportive of those people and stop following these fake people that are just flexing that are giving you absolutely zero value.

Go support the people who are actually doing it and actually standing up for the right shit. That's what my two cents would be. All good stuff. Hey, bro, appreciate you making the trip out for the show, man. Yeah. It's been fun. Awesome to be here.

Really appreciate the invite. Yeah, we'll definitely keep you more regular on the show as we talk about, when we get back to talking about business and marketing and things, because I think you have a lot of legitimate value to offer. And I just want to say thanks for all the content you put out because it's helped us redefine and look out for ourselves and be better at business. And I just really appreciate it, brother. So thank you a whole lot. Again, guys, your Instagram one more time for the guys. Robert Freund Law. Okay. Guys, follow this man. He gives out a lot of info. And if you're

new to influencer marketing, you're not quite sure what to do, reach out to him. He's here to help. That's what he does. So thanks again. I appreciate it. And guys, I really appreciate you guys listening to the show. If you got value out of the show, if it made you laugh, it made you think, if it made you better in any way, share the show. If you didn't like it, then maybe you'll like the next one. Probably not though. So don't, don't listen.