REAL AF with Andy Frisella - 257. Redefining Men Ft. Jason Wilson

Episode Date: March 19, 2022

In today's episode, Andy and the crew are joined in the studio by the founder & CEO of Yunion, Jason Wilson. They discuss the misconceptions of what it takes to be a real man, how to gain control over your emotions so that you're not a slave to them, and why it's more important now than ever for men to be men.

What is up guys, it's Andy Priscilla and this is the show for the realest, say goodbye to the lies, the fakeness and delusionsusions of modern society. And welcome to motherfucking reality. Guys, today we have an awesome full-length episode for you. I'm so excited to get to it. I've got Dr. Sal in the room. What's going on, everybody? I actually got a message the other day that their friends started listening and they started- They actually thought you were a doctor?

Thought I was a doctor. Yeah, well, you're not a doctor. Well, I don't know. In today's times, I'm still- Hey, you know what? That's a good point. I identify as a doctor. You identify as a doctor? That's correct. Yeah, all right. Before I not a doctor. Well, I don't know. In today's times, I'm still, I'm still. Hey, you know what? That's a good point. I identify as a doctor. You identify as a doctor?

That's correct. Yeah, all right. Before I am a doctor. And as always, I've got my handsome co-host here. Hell yeah. Not you, Sal. Hey. Hell yeah.

Hell yeah. Gotcha. Mr. DJ, what's up, dude? White Lightning, Big Reggie, all of that. Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Diversity. Dude. Are you a, dude? White Lightning, Big Reggie, all of that. Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Diversity. Dude.

Are you a real doctor? No. Oh. Not at all. I concur. Yeah. Anyway, and we have a very special guest that I am super excited to have on the show. You guys might know him from Instagram.

You might know him. You might not have ever heard of him before, but he's an amazing man. Mr. Jason Wilson, who is the founder and CEO of Union, which is a nonprofit organization, Detroit, Michigan, that really focuses on developing the young men coming up in the next generation society. Jason has over 14 years of experience and training in developing young men and has effectively reached more than 10,000 youth at the ground level, young adults in the Metro Detroit area. The Cave of Adelam Transformational

Training Academy, otherwise known as CATA, is a male transformational training academy of the union where boys and young men who are emotionally distressed, mentally disconnected, and spiritually in debt gather here to be taught, uh, train and transform into comprehensive men. And, um, Jason is also the author of an incredible book, cry like a man, which explains the dangers men face in our cultural definition of masculinity. Now, dude, welcome to the show, man. Honor to be here. Thanks for having me. It's a, it's a huge honor to have you on the show. You know, um, like I was telling you earlier when we met, now Jason and I have never met before today,

but one of the things that caught my attention and that I wanted to bring him on the show to talk about was I came across an incredible clip. This is maybe a year ago of a young boy who was, they were doing martial arts. It was Jason and this young boy and, uh, he was crying. He was frustrated. And the way that you handled that young boy, um, I shared it on my story cause I just thought it was so amazing and such a great example of men leading future men. And that's an obligation that I think has been abandoned by society. It's been forgotten by society. And I just wanted to have you on the

show, man, and talk about what we, because we all know the world's crazy right now, right? Yes, it is. We can all agree. We might all have different opinions of how crazy or what crazy or what's going on. And we talk about those things all the time on the show. But today, what I really want to focus on is what do we do about it? Because what we're doing here as men is leaving a world that is completely corrupt, completely disorganized, lacks moral standard, lacks the understanding of how to provide and achieve and become actual men. And so, dude, I just want to say before we even get started, I'm so appreciative of the work that you're doing. And I hope if you guys are listening to this show and you have young people in your

house, you start to realize that you guys message me a lot and you say, what's the solution? Well, the solution is those young people that you see in your home every single day. And so we got to get on board with, uh, with helping these guys get to where we need them to be. So absolutely. Thank you. I'm completely honored to be here, Andy, kicking it with Sal and DJ. Um, first and foremost, I'm just blown away by what you guys are doing here. We just purchased a 15,000 square foot building. And just to learn that I am on the right path as far as the principles that we're trying to instill in our community, even with our staff. I mean, I'm just really blown away. So I take my hat off to all of you what you're doing this is truly amazing it is amazing um you're right you know frederick douglass said um it's easier to raise uh children

than it is to repair broken men um i believe there's truth in that the problem is that we're leaving men broken and i'm pretty sure f pretty sure Frederick Douglass, if he was living, he says, I didn't mean to leave men broken. I mean, it's literally, it's just easier to raise boys. So we have broken fathers or broken men. I always say a broken man has a broken boy inside and society doesn't allow us as men to actually operate in the fullness of our humanity. So we're typically confined to masculine attributes with boldness, strength, aggression. But when I saw Sal with his son, I saw a nurturer. I saw someone's compassionate. But we're typically taught to shy away from those attributes because, well, it looks weak.

But unfortunately, because of this mentality, we're suffering mentally. We're suffering in silence. I call it emotional incarceration. And unfortunately, even though this door to this jail cell is open, we refuse to walk out because define us, which is masculinity. Women refuse to allow a culture or femininity to define them. They're anything and everything they have to be at any given moment. And that's what we must be as men as well. And so what I do is I give boys, I start young, I give them the opportunity to be human, to express their fears. When a young boy cried on the mat, he couldn't break the board because it was hurting, but it wasn't pain. It was fear. And I told him, when you get older, we don't typically cry over pain. We cry over hurt, disappointment, or feeling like a failure. And that's what little Bruce was dealing with in that

moment. But when I gave him the space to breathe, to process what you're feeling, you know, it's okay to cry. We cry as men. To give him that opportunity to be free in that moment, you saw what happened. He was able to gather himself, push through his fear of failure and break the board. Dr. William Frey discovered that tears induced from emotional stress or trauma actually release stress hormones. So when you tell a boy not to cry, you're basically telling him to cut off his humanity. And then we wonder why, man, we die by suicide three times as likely as women. I believe in the United States, we commit over 70% of the homicides. Nine out of 10 people who live to be over 100 are women.

It's very rare you'll see on Facebook or any platform a man over 100 years old being celebrated for his birthday. Because we identify ourselves by what we do instead of who we are, how hard we can work, working long hours. Your accomplishments, this building, my building, what I do for boys. But I learned quickly if I didn't change that, I'd only have an early grave, but if I live long, I wouldn't be able to enjoy life. And so when I start allowing myself, first and foremost, stop allowing the world to define me. As soon as the world can define you, your life has been limited. So you can't define me. I'm a comprehensive man. I'm anything and everything I have to be at any given moment. I'm strong, but I'm sensitive. I'm courageous, but I'm also compassionate. And the key thing is,

men, we don't live from the good in our hearts. We live from the fear of what we'd be perceived as. So for me, now that I'm free from this performance-based lifestyle, I could cry here if I need to. I could be a nurturer. I can help a homeless person. I can do whatever I need to. It was a couple, what did the mug say in the coffee? It said alpha female. Alpha female, yeah. And so the guy, I wanted some coffee. He said, it was you.

I said, yeah. DJ said, you mind caring? It says alpha female. I said, I know who I am. Yeah. Yeah. And I grabbed a coffee mug. I need a coffee.

I know who I am. And unfortunately, you know, Andy, many of us, we don't really know who we are. I mean, until I know parts of it. Yeah. We, we really don't know what we were created to do and why we're here. And that's why many of us are, our lifestyles are high risk, man. Well, listen, I agree with everything that you're saying. You know, I think the way social structure is structured right now, men have a very hard time. I definitely focus my work on toughening men up, right? Because I feel like there's a lot of softness going around in the world too. And I think there's a good balance.

You know, there's a balance of you have to be able to handle what's going on, but you also have to understand that it's okay to struggle. It's okay to, and those are the things that end up making us who we are. I'm interested to hear why you got into this how you found yourself on this path because what you're doing man you're meant to do you know uh it's very obvious to anybody what's your instagram uh mr jason o wilson that's my handle through all social media you guys need to follow him because the way he does things is is the way it should be done um yeah when i picked you up i almost said hey dad there's a bond there man are you watching by i'm like man dude's got it it's it's amazing you asked that because um

i had to learn real quickly man man, what my purpose was, why I exist. I caught myself early on responding to everyone's call instead of doing what God had called me to do. And because of the pain, what you see now is a result of much adversity and pain. First, desiring to be loved by my father, who was definitely emotionally incarcerated like so many men of his era. I grew up without having that. And so what you see also is a desire, something I longed for. So I basically am living for what I longed for instead of what I lacked. I remember I was training my son in the basement and he asked me, he says, dad, how did you become a great dad when your dad wasn't? And I think it was your son's age maybe. And I said, son, I simply gave you what I longed for.

And I had never said that before, but literally that's all I became. And so from that desire, I started remembering what I was doing young. So in my community, there was a lot of gangs, you know, and drug dealers. And I never knew why the big drug dealers, we call them OGs or original gangsters, they would drop their sons off to my house because they felt that it was a safe space for their sons to be. And my mother thought, you know, that's juvenile. Why are you hanging with kids five years younger than you?

I didn't know. I was like a big brother to them. But God was preparing me for what I'm doing today. And when I started the Cave of Adelamite, it was martial arts, hard, just like you, driving discipline, driving focus. And then I quickly realized when I started seeing the boot camps started falling to the wayside, just crashing and then lawsuits and boys not really transforming, that our boys didn't necessarily need more discipline. They needed more love, especially in the black community,

because the gold standard was the hyper-masculine black male. And I tried my best to wear that t-shirt, to wear that crown, and it was a suit that couldn't fit me. And so you heard the term thug, you know, you a thug. I made an acronym for that. A thug is a traumatized human unable to grieve. And that's when I look at, when I go talk to gang members or those who call themselves thugs, they break down in front of me because really what's happening is they're stuck in fight or flight. Majority of us as men are, regardless of your background, because we're told what?

To suppress what we feel. So what does that mean? We stay like this. We stay on guard. We can't even get in a heated discussion with our wives without yelling. You know, and so that was a whole nother game changer for me was that here it is. I'm teaching having emotional stability, but yet my wife was able to drive out something in me that should have never have come out. My wife should never fear threatened with me around. Arguing with me,

she should never feel like, man, I wonder if we keep arguing, where would this go? Right. But as men, if we don't learn how to release or process what we're feeling, heck, before we get home, now those who deserve

our love, our patience, and care, they can't get that because we gave that to the world. That's why I respect our conversation, Sal. You let people have it who deserve it. Hey, you want the lion? You'll get the lion. But I'm not going to bring the lion home. The lion protects the pride. He doesn't fight and damage the home. And what people don't understand, we want to be these beastest men. Again, it's promoted in society. The lion sleeps 18 to 20 hours a day.

He's in chill mode. So I teach my recruits, I want you to live in the lamb. But when a problem comes, you become the lion. That was something you said in that video that I think it was in the caption of maybe that video or another caption where you were writing about you want to have the lion on call, that's not that should never be your default if you're lying 24 7 you're stuck in fight or flight yeah and that's a dangerous place to be because even love will look like a threat you know and i can't tell you how many times man my wife said to me i was just sharing i love your son and your relationship sal because i long to get that back because when your son gets older he kind of like man I'm grown dad I don't need you you know um I was like man I need to spend more time with little Jay so my wife is sitting across from me in the kitchen and all she said was man I wish you would long to spend time with me like that what I heard was something else I wasn't doing right. Before I knew it, man, I

put a big dent in our stainless steel refrigerator. And at that moment, we were considering separation because I saw my beautiful wife, literally her confidence, continence, everything just folded. And she just sat down. And I said, I never, ever would treat you like that again. When I learned how to process my emotions, the key thing in the moment and release them, now she can get the best version of myself. And that's what me and we really, we want to be free. We know it's a facade trying to be tough 24 seven. It's impossible. I tell people, you know, we say to each other, your mom could die, whomever, someone close could pass. And I say, stay strong, Andy. This isn't the time for

you to tell me to stay strong. I should say, grieve, my brother. Cry, get this out of you. This is a heavy weight. She was a pillar in your life. She deserves your tears. I mean, trying to fight their tears at funerals. I'm like, when I hear the eulogy, I linked over to one of my friends who grandmother passed. Actually, no, I text him. I said, you should be crying right now. This woman was a pillar. She deserved your tears. And that freed him up to grieve.

And we all hold it in. And that's what we have to do as fathers. But we can't free our sons until we're free. And my goal, my mission is to teach, train and transform uninitiated boys into comprehensive men. between fathers and sons, to bring them back together where it can be completely whole. And that's, you know, it is a calling and, you know, I embrace it. There's nothing else I would want to do. Nothing motivated. Money doesn't motivate me. You know, fame, you can cut all of this off.

It's your work. Yeah. I turned down speaking engagements, Andy. I believe it because because you got the lights off yeah that's why i love what you guys do you're still here yeah i told uh dj we driving i'm like they're still in they're still in st louis when i saw the facility man it just it gave me hope because i don't want to abandon my city. Yeah. We don't either. Yeah.

We, we talked about this a little earlier, you know, Detroit and St. Louis are very similar. Yes. We have good, good places and nice,

nice areas. And then we have the areas that seem to be completely forgotten about. And, you know, for us to, when we talk about fixing this country and we talk about the improvements that need to be made and, and the, and the nonsense that's going on right now, everybody in America has to realize they have a place here. And it's hard to bring people who feel like they've been completely forgotten about along for that ride. Right.

I'm talking about the black community. Of course. Yeah. along for that ride right um i'm talking about the black community of course yeah the high crime where you're you're you know it's hard to be motivated about building a business or getting better or moving in the right direction when you're looking over your shoulder to see who's going to shoot you in the back yeah you know and um one of the biggest things that that we talk about here is i would love to see our city, you know, sort of like the Phoenix coming from the ashes, you know, and revive and see, you know, some of these wealthy men and some of these wealthy women and business owners here in St. Louis reinvest back into these communities properly and then cultivate leadership like what you're doing up there so that we can get, because like people, people tend to think they're like, oh, well, we just got to put more money in the schools or we got to put this and that. No, what we need is people that care. We need people that care and understand that what we're working towards and the things we're neglecting now are only going to become bigger problems and harder things to deal with later. Yeah.

I mean, you know, I have a saying, if you want to experience real love, first get everything together in the mirror. And that's the biggest issue. Even in the community, you had mentioned, you know, walking through wherever you started business. Like, you know, I tell a story in my book, Battle Cry. We just purchased a 15,000 square foot building i come out with my son playing basketball the guy next to me says someone's trying to kill me and the suburban was coming with three guys so i didn't know what was going to happen i say this i could tell the story but besides investing in the city we

also have to dismantle what causes that or what calls that mentality because wherever there's desperation i don't care what background what community we stay in as long as there's desperation there will be crime yeah and and until we really reckon with the why and not necessarily the how when we get to the why then we can see some change you know the work that you're doing you know it's it's it's you're answering the why and so the reason uh another brother would pull a gun on me is way deeper than him needing some food and that's what we have to get through, get to. Like when the crack epidemic affected the black community, it wasn't an alarm like the opioid epidemic.

You see what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. There's a double standard. Double standard, major. And so when we can link up as brothers and sisters and can get past what the system has taught us about a skin color, and again, as men, again, when you can live from this, what's inside of the good in it, because there's some bad in it as well,

and we all know that. When you can live from the good in your heart without fear, because perfect love casts out fear, then we'll see some transformation. Until then, you can drop a million dollars anywhere. Just be spent. I think that's one of the biggest things. And we talk about this quite a bit, man. It's like the problems, quote unquote, that we have in this society, in this country, they're not black problems.

They're not white problems. They're not this community's problems. They're all our problems. If you consider yourself an American. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Because at the end of the day, we're all affected're all our problems, you know? And if you consider yourself an American, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Because at the end of the day, we're all affected by all of it. Right. At some point in some way, shape or form, you know, and I think that's why it's so crucial.

Like, you know, like, like for me, like I grew up without a father, right? Like I didn't, I didn't have one. He's still out getting milk somewhere. That's how the joke goes. Right. Um, I didn't, I didn't have that, that role model, you know what I'm saying? But I had access to a few people in my life that showed me what was possible right um and i think that's what's really missing in a lot of

communities i think it definitely goes deeper than oh it's just poverty no because i mean there's poverty everywhere in all different types of communities um i think there that there is a lack of quality man i think the problem, is because you were touching on this, is that, and we talked about this yesterday, too, it's like. There's a lack of exposure. There's a lack of exposure, but then what they tell us that a man is supposed to be, it's this long beard, right, killing the world. Manly man.

Yeah, you got to go kill a world of beasts, right? We were making fun of it on yesterday's show. Yeah, they kind of make it unrealistic, right, because there's some people like Madat, he can't grow facial hair. So is he not a man? You know what I'm saying? So it's like, I? Because there's some people like Madat. He can't grow facial hair. So is he not a man? You know what I'm saying? So it's like, I mean, there's a real struggle. What do you think?

You going to take his trophy away for that bad joke? But if you had to say that it was okay, there's five characteristics that make a man a man, what would you say? What would you list those out as? I can't. Once I do that, he's defined. That's right.

Yeah. So then he's done. Yeah. So once you do that, you're back in the box. I think that's, I mean, that's a great answer. I never really thought about it like that. Well, I mean, if you're trying not to be defined, then you define yourself,

then you're boxed out, right, to the point. But I mean, I think humility and ego are a huge growth component that a lot of men never go through. They never get to because of the fear, right? It goes back to the fear. Absolutely. And Jason, because you're afraid of, we were talking about a couple episodes of what if. Like, what happens if I do this? And what are they going to think about me? And what is society going to think about me? And that fear factor and your ego, because of not what you're scared of. You know the difference between right and wrong. You know what you're afraid of,

but the ability for you to call yourself on your own shit and address those problems. And if you're not willing to go through that journey, you're never going to progress. And I think that's the, when you start talking about defining who you are as humans, not black, white, pink, purple, gay, straight. We're all God's children that way. And our identity should be making sure that we take care of God's children. And before, in order to take care of anybody else's children, you got to take care of yourself. And taking care of yourself is understanding who you are and finding who you are. I don't know that you can figure out who you are with not completely understanding who you're not. What about creating who you are?

Well, and I think creating who you are is built through figuring out- Because I feel like I'm just keeping it real. I feel like so many people use, I'm going to discover who I am as a complete cop-out to do any work to develop who they can be. You know, I feel like that's a trendy thing. Like, oh dude, I'm going to take my, I mean, dude, you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, of course. No, I mean, I, I, I agree. Right. But I mean, at the end of the day, if we're going to, you know, get down to spades or spades, like you're going to have to do some work and that works internal. Yeah. That works in the mirror. That works mental. Like those, those struggles, you know, where I've got to a point, I mean, these guys know, like I'll cry on stage, you know, like it's one of those things. Like at first I didn't like doing it. It was, it made me feel like I was

scared of doing it. Now I understand when it's coming, like, Hey, motherfucker, it's here. Like, I don't, I don't know what to tell you, but here it is. Once you are, once you, once you allow yourself to be seen as human people, it's not even something that's, that's a huge misconception. I think, I think that people, I think that there's a lot of men out there that feel like, like you're saying, Jason have to have to be a certain way. And I think when you are a certain way, but you still show these other sides of who you are, it makes you way more credible than someone who just goes up there of who you are, it makes you way more credible than someone who just goes up there and, you know, barks, you know what I mean?

I mean, I don't know, like, you know, like that meet, what was that meeting about? I don't know, a month or two ago where I got a little emotional about, uh, help it, helping these people. Right. We were talking about helping people who were in the middle of transforming and you know like these people are out there doing this work to become better and do all these things and i see them post and you know they get one like or zero comments and it's like you know i was talking what i was talking about was my team like hey support these people these people don't

have anybody else supporting them and um you know I got a little emotional because that's important to me. Uh, you know, I spent a lot of my life being the fat guy and being someone who pretended that it was okay to be that way. And then I was happy with it, which I wasn't. And if you are, that's fine, but I don't think you are. I think you're lying, but, uh, you know, we were talking and and i talked to aaron like a week later and he's like man dude like that meeting really hit everybody and i'm like why and they're like well because you got emotional i'm like well what do they think they think i don't really care like this is like like i really care because i've been there you know what i mean and i know how important it is because like these, these people who are going through these transformations, if you don't support them

and then let's say they have a bad day, that could be the pivotal day that forces them to go the complete opposite direction for the rest of their lives. That might lead to a time where, like you were saying, maybe they get to a point where they're considering suicide because they feel like they can't control any elements in their life. And I truly believe, I think the reason that we built this facility and are successful is because we all carry that same amount of care for other people. And that's what I saw in what you do, man. But I saw it instead of doing it with adults i saw you're starting at the foundation and and i think that's such a huge thing you know

i i don't know if you know this but i have a set of children's books that i write um no i didn't know that yeah it's good yeah yeah so so and i you know like i said i don't have any kids of my own but about i don't know 2015 i was i I used to do a lot more public speaking than I do now. And, uh, I got, I got asked to come speak to a group of veterans, um, out in Salt Lake or what was it? Sundance, Sundance field festival. And we're flying out there and we were flying private. There's six people on the plane or something. It was me and some of the team and, and dude, I get real crabby. All right. Like I, I will complain a lot, but shit will still get done. And so I was, I was complaining on the plane. I'm like, you know, dude, I'm going to go up there. I'm going

to give these guys everything I got and they're going to walk out and they're going to go do the same shit they were doing before they came in. Like, it's just, and I said, like out of frustration, I said, we need to, we need to write books for teenagers. That's what we need. We need to catch them before. And then I'm like, nah, it's too late. We need to catch them when they're like 12. And I'm like, no, it's too late.

No, we need to write kids books. And I was saying it like, just kind of, just kind of talking shit. And everybody got quiet and looked at me and they're like, oh, and I realized, oh, it's actually a pretty good idea. So we started writing these books that are designed to, uh, as tools for parents to use to teach their kids, the principles of succeeding, um, and success. Because what I hear all the time from parents is, you know, Andy, I love your show, you know, but I can't really let my kids listen to it. I get that.

You probably shouldn't. Just being real, you know, maybe I should do a kid's show too or something. There you go. I was just saying Andy for show. Yeah, right. We'll do a cartoon series, me and you. Hey, man, that whole concept was to build, to, to give parents a tool that they can, cause, cause they don't know what to teach, dude. Like they don't know, like so many parents out

there, thousands upon thousands upon thousands of reach out to me. And they're like, man, I love, I love what you're talking about, but I don't know how to teach it because I didn't learn that. And I'm learning it now as an adult. So how do I teach it? And that was the purpose of what the books were about. And that's what they continue to be about. But, you know. Are your books available?

Oh, yeah, yeah. They're available on the website. Okay, great. I'll give you some before you go. Please do that. Please do. Yeah. It's interesting you brought up children's books because my newest book, Battle Cry,

is doing really well with men. My publisher reached out and said, hey, let's do a children's version. Dude, you have to do it. Yeah. It's interesting. You brought up children's books because my newest book, Battle Cry, is doing really well with men. My publisher reached out and said, hey, let's do a children's version. Dude, you have to do it. You have to do it. Like for the way you teach these young men. Dude. Okay. Yeah. All right. Yeah, absolutely. And anything I can do to help with that, I will. You don't need my help. But I think what's interesting, though, because, you know, I just, we touched on it briefly earlier, but the correlation,

you know, we do a lot of work in Haiti and I was, I was telling Jason earlier, you know, we got, whenever COVID hit, we did a,

we were doing a 30 for the kids and we did it for Haiti and we got trouble because we weren't helping kids locally. And so then we, you know, we got involved in North city and,

and here in St. Louis. And that was when we made our rule. Whatever we do there, we do here. That's right. Yeah. And we're going to share the dollars, right? And so invest in our local community.

Whatever we're going to invest in there, let's invest in here. And we've done that in the last two years. In fact, it's the guy barking in the crowd who's never done anything. We've been able to progress and help hundreds of children here in our backyard. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, of course. Thanks for the criticism. That's right. Because it gave us a good idea. Well, they criticized, but the truth is the world's separated by doers, not talkers. Yeah. You know, and we got busy. It's like, you know what? All right. Fair. Touche. But we're going to go do it instead of talking about it. I remember when we had that conversation. Yeah. I was actually, I remember exactly where I was

and what I was doing. And I'm like, you know what? That's fine. We'll just do everything that we do there. We'll do it here too. Yeah. And I think you start looking at commonalities of problems. As a problem solver by nature, you always find the common denominator because usually when you find the common denominator, you can identify where the problem sits. And when you compare North City and Haiti, both poverty stricken, but when you start looking at the men, you know, both, you know, poverty stricken, but we started looking at the men, it's the lack of men in the communities and Haiti, it's same deal. There's no, there's no men in the household. And, um, you know, when you look at the moms who have, you know, three, four, five in particular, where my Haitian son is Marco, he has nine, nine brothers and sisters,

no dad. And you go into the inner city in St. Louis and there's no man in the household. There's no dad. So who raises them? The streets. And we've also invested in trying to help out a Live for Life program to get some of these kids off the streets and start teaching them, much like you're doing Jason, some discipline and giving them some team effort and some sport and lifting weights and a community and starting trying to centralize that parenting, right? And some type of male leadership and teaching them, hey, you don't have to go down the gang violence route. You can use strength and sport and team and community and start to build some of these

core characteristic values. But from your experience, where do you start well i mean for one was interesting i found that you hear a statistic that talks about how 78 of black families are parented by single females unfortunately that stat is really skewed because it implies that there is no man around another study came out um believe it it was in the New York Times maybe or the Daily News. They did a study that proved that black fathers are the most active

in their children's lives than any other ethnicity. So where is all these narratives going on? So again, that's what I was saying about dismantling a system. Systemic racism is a system designed to keep a certain group of people in a certain position. He looks over and I'm talking about pipeline to prison, school to pipeline to prison, basically a system where they filter kids from the educational system into the prison industrial complex. So he says, what are you telling me? Prisons are privatized?

I said, you didn't know that? He says, that's impossible. That should be illegal because if prisons are privatized, that means assets are people. So the only way you're going to get assets, you got to create laws and he just looked at me he was like oh so those are the things i would need like you my brothers to really hit hard on because again i i've truly our community truly values brothers like you with the heart to give back because you don't have to do it no we do have to do it no we do have to do it but no this is what i'm saying no i hear what you're saying from your own conviction if we

call ourselves americans yeah but no i get it but listen what i mean is that you don't have to yeah but you do yeah but what i'm saying is it's the system as long as the roots are supplying the tree, the branches will continue to grow. We keep cutting the branches off. But the real problem, like in my academy, people, they think the majority of the boys, their fathers aren't in their lives. I may have one. And that's not because he doesn't want to be there. Again, so when I did a deep dive on like why fathers aren't active in their children's lives, it's not that they don't want to be there. Again, so when I did a deep dive on why fathers aren't active in their children's

lives, it's not that they don't want to be. It's that many of them feel like failures that they can't even provide. I can go down that line, but I've never met a father that didn't want to be in his son's life, daughter's life. And then when I, again, as a black man, I'm told all of these narratives that are lies. And that programs a generation of boys not to even believe in themselves. Like another thing, you know, I don't have an issue with sports. But we are creative beyond playing the game. Dude.

You know what I'm saying? Amen. So I push that as well. But we have to create, again, environments where you're celebrated for robotics, where you're celebrated for going after being a doctor. Or an architect. Architect. Yeah. Or you want to start a nonprofit.

So what about even a plumber or carpenter? So in the cave, what we do with our boys as well, once we teach them emotional stability, we actually have a workforce development program where they can go out into these trades to see what they want to do. Like building drones and carpentry and construction, but it's still not celebrated. You don't get a trophy for framing a house the fastest. You understand? So boys, we want to go where the affirmation is. Gangs are popular. Why?

Because you get affirmation. And then, you know. And a sense of belonging. Exactly. And so when I even, I had an opportunity because, again, a lot of times if you just listen to the media or the way things are spun in the news, you think it's just a black issue. Again, like I said, when the crack epidemic hit the black community, it wasn't, no alarm sounded. But when opioids did, it was a major issue. So I had the opportunity to work with white kids one day. It was fun. It's really cool to work with

white boys for the first time because everyone kept saying, you know, why do you only work with black kids or whatever? And that's offensive in and of itself they'll see a picture a school of all of my students there's no sign on my door that says color zone right you know but you don't i bet you don't ask that same question to a white school martial arts school why why don't you have any black kids oh dude i get asked that every time you do every time that's good i didn't know that bro listen every time i take a photo without any black people in it, I get yelled at and called a racist. Every single time.

Well, I receive the opposite of that. That's interesting, right? It's the same guy in the stands. Yeah. You know what I mean? The guy that's not doing nothing. So I say that to say because martial arts, what I love about martial arts-

By the way, it's always white people call me racist. But this is what I love about martial arts what i love about martial by the way it's always white people call me racist this is what i love about martial arts um we really don't get caught up in this skin cup yeah right we train we train we train it's the ultimate equalizer man but but this is what what i noticed is that so one of my uh good friends um i trained with the i keep with jutsu for a while and he had told me says jay you could lose your job right and you won't you'll keep it moving your fortitude you would just push through he says for me he says you will hear stories about a banker lose his job go home and kill his entire family he says that's a psyche that you really need to dive into as well because again this is one of the biggest issues with society at large as long as we look through it with our lens we don't have the empathy for any other culture because it's

just our problem this is the way we see you this is who you are this this is how you are but when we for me being a follower of Christ I had to ask God to give me his eyes let me see things through his eyes when I started having that mindset and that perspective I was able to to deal with things from here the good and so when you can my friend told me another guy who's Irish American, he told me, Jay, don't believe the nice house, the wife and kids and the dog barking in the backyard. It's not just a black issue. It's a man issue. It's a human issue. And so here we get, we're talking about dealing with the real problem. Of course, resources are needed.

Trust me, I know I'm right there. But if you have power and influence where these laws are being passed, where these systems are being basically erected, you know, if we're really one and we believe that, we need to work together and dismantle those systems.

I agree. And that is, so when you look at a young boy, you know, I'll be clear with you because you, you believe that everything is white is right. That you guys, it's easy, you know? And when I was training those boys, I saw a common denominator. They suppress their emotions, depression, suicidal thoughts, lack composure. One kid was crying so bad just because he left his lunch at home. He didn't know how to navigate through his emotions. Mother didn't know what to do.

Father wasn't there. I literally laid on my back in the school floor and looked up to him because he wouldn't look me in the eyes. His name was Barron. And I said, what's wrong, Barron? He just dropped his head, crying, crying. So I laid on the ground and I looked up at him. He smiled. I said, oh, I see you now. I said, what's wrong? He said, I left my lunch at home. Because I gave him an opportunity to really express what's going on, he performed well that day. How many men are trapped in this box to where they're feeling that way, can't express it, then they go grab a gun and go do something they shouldn't do. And so.

White or black. Well, I know a real story like that. BJ Baldwin, who's a buddy of mine, shot a guy who shot a guy. Two guys walked up on him, black guys. He's a white dude. Doesn't matter. This is to the point. They came up and BJ ended up killing the one guy because he,

the guy pulled out a gun shot a couple of times and BJ is like super like trains. He's a, he's an instructor and he shot this guy and killed him. And now BJ and his, this, this guy who he killed his brother are actually friends. And the the reason that he that that guy had pulled the gun that day was because some bad shit had happened at home and his his uh what he had told his brother right before he went out and got himself killed was that he just wanted to hurt somebody it was just he was so frustrated he wanted to hurt somebody and so that's a real life example of exactly what you're talking about again Again, until we're, look at the wars that's going on right now. Oh man.

Who leading them? Who are leading these wars? Women or men? Men. Boys. I get what you're saying, but when have you seen a movie with two warriors or men who were strong or martial artists were able to reconcile a conflict without fighting? See, it's a system. That doesn't sell. Yeah fighting. See, it's a system.

That doesn't sell. Yeah, but see, it's a system. And then we wonder why our boys can't reconcile conflict. Why are you smoking drugs? Liquor's promoted. It's a system. They don't do what we say. They do what we do.

And that's what I'm saying. I'm a principled person, just like you guys are, clearly. I don't cut branches off. I'm trying to take the tree out. I'm dealing with the roots. I'm going to snatch it up by its roots. I love that. And so that's how we solve this problem. It's a documentary coming out on my life.

I signed with the actor Lawrence Fishburne's film company, and it should be out hopefully this year. And what's crazy is that it's a beautiful film. It's about me, my work I do with boys in the cave of a dullum. And it deals with the cause and effect of trauma, et cetera, and how to overcome it. But when I watched it with my wife and I tear it up because the world doesn't show black boys the way this documentary will be showing our children. And this is why I know, people say, well, I'm not prejudiced. Well, how aren't you? Because your grandfather was lynched.

Because my grandfather was lynched and I saw intergenerational trauma because of it affect my entire family. But I'm not prejudiced because I've been blessed by so many relationships from people of different ethnic backgrounds. However, when I look at this situation with our boys, it's sad to say that they have to be humanized. Because the first way you can live with doing something evil, you have to dehumanize someone or something. They're less than so I can do this. This is why I have hope. When our video went viral in 2016, tons of comments, 100 million views worldwide.

I saw one comment, the guy said, man, this is BS. I know there's other boys like this, but the media won't show us that. And I looked at him, it was a white guy from Germany. There's a system in place designed to keep us separated.

A hundred percent. Spiritually. Intentionally. Yeah, spiritually, you know, the principles divide and conquer. So all it is, you can't rule your emotions. You can forget about it. Yeah. You're a slave to them.

You know, people say, well, this made me do it or the devil made me do it or this happened at the end of the day it's our desires that lead us astray we can't check what's not righteous in us and we continue to live that way and man we would never be able to do that especially with lust if we don't take time, like you were saying, Sal, and do the introspective work needed to transform our hearts, renew our minds. You can't, like people say, how are you faithful to your wife, man? You just got one woman. I'm like, for one, it's much deeper because I fear the most high.

I'm on an assignment here. And then two, your perception of peace is not really accurate. So most men look at sex as a way of escape. That's why pornography is so addictive. It's so you can control and make your own world. Problem is, peace can't be a place. If that's the case, you can't have it in the midst of conflict. So with me, I've been trained, if I'm in a fist coming at me, I'm still calm as if I'm on a beach in Hawaii.

But that only happened when I allowed myself to sit still. And of course, I had to go to psychotherapy because all the trauma I've been through. As men, we run through bullets. Like you said, some say you have to have the long beard, muscles, training, jujitsu, whatever. That's why I don't like defining manhood the hardest thing for us to do is deal with ourselves every man in here know that that's why this world is the way it is we're not confronting the real enemy that's because you know the truth yeah but we but so we're talking and i love this by the way i love your picture it says society yeah something

just hit me that is a part of the problem. Oh, yeah. But I would love to put me on there. Go ahead. The word M-E. Yeah. Because when I think of who I was and what I still struggle with today, it's not what's around me. It's what's in me.

It's the bad in me, the fears, the way I was neglected. I can go on and on, the abuse, the bullying, those things I have to suppress and actually release so that I can live in the moment. But we don't face that person. That's the greatest fear because that person doesn't lie to us. When we look in the mirror, we know, we see the pain. We hear the words again from our mother, our fathers, from our friends who let us down. And so then we buy things, put on this bravado, trying to be smooth, strong, whatever. It's all a facade.

We're just trying to make it. But when we cut the lights off, we feel empty. And that's because, you know, for me, until I accepted Christ, man, I was done. I could go any direction. I was angry this moment, depressed this moment. My wife, a beautiful Saturday afternoon, wanting to go to the park with my daughter. I'm sitting on the couch angry and didn't even know why. What the hell?

What's wrong with me? It's because I never took time to release because the culture says, society says, a man who cries is weak. A man who is weak is soft. You can't feel fear. You know how many men are dead today because we weren't allowed to feel fear? There is no courage without fear. You have to have fear to be courageous. That's it. And so, again, if you only look at it through one lens, we'll say, why did you go to that party and they were shooting? That's a black problem or something like that, you would say.

But then I got white kids on Instagram. When I look at my DMs, my direct messages, it's 75% young white males who reach out to me wanting to break free. So it may not be a gang violence, a gang shooting. It'd be drugs. It'd be a stabbing, violence, abuse. But again, we're looking at it through society's lens instead of really what's really happening. And then can we really move on what's right?

Because we, again, all of us are this way. Something that can make us uncomfortable, that compromise our lifestyle. We're like, well, wait, let me really think about this. For me, I don't care anymore, man. It's like, I'm going to do what's right. And that's what we all have to be. And you shared that several times. I'd rather be right, man, than rich.

I'd rather be a private success and a public failure. I don't want to go home and I don't have the praise of my wife and children. What good is it to build an academy and save all these boys and can't even save my own son? It's meaningless. What good is it to have the number one book or say the documentary does well and I don't even love my wife right or i hate myself being real as af i know what that means but being real i know you know yeah i know but being real is hard for us man because we believed a lot. So really, we're walking around fake because we've allowed this world to define us.

We can't be defined because when you need to be a nurturer, you can't. When you need to be compassionate, you can't. When you need to be sensitive, you can't. When you need to be long-suffering, like I had to with my mother with dementia, combing her hair doing her nails fouling them i trust me i embrace masculinity yeah my mother didn't need a masculine male she needed a servant son and i gave her that because i was comprehensive yeah but is it real masculinity being comprehensive no masculinity see i. See, I look up things.

I'm a principled person. Look up the definition. It's just a few attributes, such as strength, boldness, aggression, or masculine attire. That turned the light on for me. I was like, wait a minute. This isn't a comprehensive definition of a man. No, women have masculine attributes. Look at these women power lifters

I forgot the one sister name who took the car lifted it up off her father when the jack collapsed see we've been deceived you can't define us why do you think we why do you think that was

yeah but like what like if you could pinpoint a time in history that like said, okay, well, it's hard to do. Cause we saw what the, we saw with women, right. They had this me too. Cause I mean, if you think about women, we think about, you know, oh, they're supposed

to be raising the children in the house. They're supposed to make sure dinner's done by six. Right. But then we had this me too movement, right. And the, the feminine movement that kind of took that, that box off of them. But that was, no, I was way before that. That was due to abuse, sexual abuse.

That Me Too move was completely different. The women's liberation. The feminine, the feminine. Yeah. So, but a woman, you would never hear a woman say she's only a feminine woman.

They, they tried to tell women their places in the kitchen. They didn't buy that. But we'll say, we'll buy, oh, you gotta be rough. You gotta have an ax to cut trees down your beard.

Calluses on the hand. Women do not allow society or anyone to define them. That's why I take my hats off. But we do. You have to be buff. Come on, that's why we lift weights, right? It's a part of being a man. Oh, you got to know how to fight.

You got to know how to shoot. You got to be tough. You got you gotta curse you don't curse now you made the brother who don't curse feel like he not a man because you let someone define what a man is that's the biggest deception man would you say that there's risk though because like i hear and i love everything that is right and i think i do feel like there are some things though in society that's absolutely needed we need it we need strong men right now right like there's a lack of strength you miss you're missing i didn't say don't be strong right right right you see what i'm saying you see it's not he's saying don't be only strong it's not an absence of strength to be comprehensive. You just got it in you.

It's just another weapon in your toolbox. That's all it is. You're saying it's okay to be you. But you got to find you. You got a sensitive spirit. Yeah. I felt it when I got in the car. Very kind person.

Was it the Luther Vandross playing? I didn't hit no Luther. It wasn't Luther. You better not be playing on luther picking me up but you know and you got a ar in between the seats right magazine uh 30 round magazines in the back and i'm like okay interesting i love i got guns too i can shoot very well that's one of the first things we talked about yeah yeah and we were talking but i'd rather people know me more as a healer than a killer.

They're 100%. Yeah. So I don't, I don't. So, and that's the feel. I'm a teddy bear. I'm a teddy bear. I'm not saying you're not. I'm saying, but could you imagine freely walking in a teddy bear? No.

Not right now. Yeah. Because you think what? Someone going to try to try you. Yeah. I think, I don't think it's realistic for the environment I'm in right now. Right? Why?

Because that's the reality of the environment we're in. I think everybody thinks DJ's a teddy bear. Yeah, for sure. They just know he's a grizzly bear, too. So listen, so listen. So that's, to your point, it's funny. I got lion and lamb. I believe in that.

And that's great. Yeah, so a friend of mine, when I first went home to see his son, he says, hey, Matthew, this is Mr. Jason. He's as cuddly as a bear and as dangerous as a bear i love that that's him yeah and that's fine and so but i try to operate if i could operate 100 of my life in the teddy bear i'm with it i know my mind is clear i'm cool i'm not in fight or flight. When that grizzly come out, it's a problem. I'm not just, my claws ain't out because I'm happy.

Right, right. I can't stay like this the whole time. No, for sure. But that's, again, we've allowed masculinity to be our definition. That's why we can't be tender to our wives. Like we really, inside of us. Like for me, man, I'll be honest with you. I grew up where, you know,

if a guy was holding a woman's hand, he'd get beat down by five or six guys. Randomly. Really? Oh yeah. So I saw that. My brothers would tell me, you know, I had two brothers who both died, homicide.

My second brother who died, he was heavyweight in the drug game and he would tell me you know you can't never let a woman know how you feel even your wife should take advantage of so i thought that was some sage advice i almost cost me my marriage i have to fight today to hold my wife's hand in public because of what i've been ingrained to believe a man is. A man isn't really romantic unless he wants some. That's why we can't really tap into intimacy. We think intimacy means, oh, we about to have sex. No, intimacy is the touch, looking in our eyes, seeing you love her without saying the words. We can't tap into that because we're only masculine. You really want to be a great lover, become comprehensive. Now you can express the nurturing

during sex. You can express the empathy, the compassion. She have a bad day. I've talked and encouraged my wife while making love to her. It's a whole another ball game. But as men, that's why I'm hoping one day I can do a cave of a dullum for men because real talk, we all have broken boys inside of us. Regardless of our backgrounds, color of our skin,

we're all walking around hurting and I would love to one day to truly be able to give us that freedom that we desire and deserve. I think it's your calling. Yes. A hundred percent. I mean, it will only take five minutes of speaking with you to believe that.

I almost feel like I'm not good enough to talk. It's kind of funny. I'm listening to Jason. I'm like, man, this guy's fucking dead on. Me and you talked the whole time. He should have had us recording well i know and i i think you know i i find a great deal of comfort in your thinking because i i'd like to think i think very linear to that you know and i i really didn't start living i had an accident broke my leg at a

collision home plate because i was identifying as a you know a male professional athlete right and that was that was who i was and you know i was gonna was. And I was out running at night. I was playing. I was never really living. And it was the term, the societal standard that I had learned from playing. I was going to act like a big leaguer. I was going to act like a professional baseball player. And that's kind of how I had to assume the role. Well, really what I was is a dirtbag and an asshole, you know, and I had assumed what they did was incorrect. That's just the truth. And when I broke my leg, I always say, you know, God took that from me because I wasn't treating it correctly. And, you know, it was a conversation that I had to have with myself and understanding like I was given the opportunity. I just, I just didn't take advantage of it. And because I didn't take

advantage of it, he took it away from me. And I think through that progression of life, because really that was kind of when I started to make some turns, when I started to realize, I need to identify who I was going to be by figuring out who I wanted to be. And when I start to see my life progress from that moment, you know, and that's why I was saying earlier, like a lot of times you gotta figure out who you're not, you know, and I wasn't really happy. Right. I was playing a role that I thought was what a big league base.

That's right. I was trying, I was so worried about impressing society that I really wasn't focused on fulfilling what I wanted to do and who I wanted to be. And I, a lot of that was, you know, you think back, you know, and, and, and I growing up from a broken household, you know, I was, I was a lot of that was, you think back, Anna and I growing up from a broken household, I was not the man that I wanted to be. I was playing the man that I saw. And when you look at how I want to go through life, fixing that emotional connection, there's not defined roles in my household. You know, I will cook and clean, and my goal is to do better than she does. Right. And that's just the competitive.

She builds, right? What's that? Your wife builds from what you were telling me. Oh yeah. No, yeah, yeah. But that's the competitive side of it, you know, and it's like, I'm going to do the job and I'm going to do it well. And, you know, I have like in my own little, I have a plus one theory now that I have three kids. And I think this is- You're going to add another plus one? I would probably at this point, knowing kind of what I got, I would consider having another one, but Rocky's going to kill me. No, but I have three children.

Eventually two trees are going to go from the forest, Rocky and I. And if we have plus one, we're going to leave one more good one than we took from the earth. And I find it's my internal obligation to try to develop young humans and specifically my son into being better versions of me through showing them how to do it. And things that scare, they scare, dude, being a dad is hard, right? Yes, it is. Being a good dad is even twice as fucking hard. Yes. scared dude being a dad is hard right yes it is being a being a good dad is even twice as fucking hard yes and you know and that comes with a 24 7 time clock you know and and being the person that you're supposed to do or be when no one's watching you know and making the right decisions

when there are no repercussions you know and doing and issuing constraint on yourself when you're the only one that's going to know. And those parts of life are really tough because I try to give myself the advice, the emotional advice, on the 24-7, 365 that I would want to give Enzo, my son, in the environment in which he would cross that same path. And I try to put myself in that place because it's the only place that I can give myself the truth. The best advice I think comes from father to son because you want better for them than you want for yourself. And when I get in a tough spot, even now, and I was just sharing this with the best part about having our dad two doors down, is he comes down and he'll give me the truth. There's a non-emotional answer there because he wants what's best for us. And he will give me the truth as he sees it.

And I try to do my best emotionally to try to give myself that same truth. 24-7, 365, what is the advice I would point my son to do right now? What would I want him to do? And then I try to replicate that action. And through that, I've had to go through a lot of emotional things because you want to raise a son that's great in sport. I realized sports don't identify him as greatness. Say that. You know?

That's good. And not only do they not identify him as greatness, I want him to be competitive, but I want him to be compassionate. So how do I teach him that? You have to show him that. That piece is hard, man, because as a guy, like who doesn't want,

like last night, my son's at bat, first baseball practice, you know, I'm a baseball guy. Of course I want him to hit the fucking ball hard. Right. You know?

Absolutely. He should. That's right. That's right. You know, and I'm like, fuck, hey,

I don't have a ball. You know, and you're sitting there thinking, and it's like, you know, that chapter of life, you know, in developing young men is hard, but the interest that, and the dividend that pays for it is, is, is tenfold. And, you know, going through that emotional battle and that emotional, uh, internalization is, is a necessary

evil. And I think you have to face those emotions. You know, you have to learn that it's okay to be frustrated, but we're not designed to be perfect. We're designed to progress. Say that, man. You know, we have a saying, you know, to piggyback off what you're saying, emotions are great servants, but poor masters.

And so once you allow an emotion to master you, you become its servant. And so, I mean, truthfully, Sal, man, just from talking with you today, you weren't created to play baseball. You created to do what you do now. And God the Father is not one who lacks compassion. He is literally written as that he is love. He removed, like he removed producing music out of my way so that i can do what i do now it's clear you weren't created to play baseball you created to do

what you do now he got you in a position a high pressure position to help people because he needs you he didn't need another baseball player he need another person to go to the hall of fame he needed sal to operate in his gift right now and live freely from that. And, you know, I'm honored to, you know, to have met you. And I thank you for your transparency because it's clear. And I just want you to believe that. There's nothing you messed up. He didn't want it for you.

Yep. Who you are as a dad, I saw you with your son. Enzo is beautiful. Embrace that and become better at that. Yep. want it for you yep who you are as a dad i saw you with your son and so it's beautiful embrace that and become better at that yep that's what you you are who you are right now yes yeah definitely what do you think speaking back to uh you know not defining men but what are like, because there's a lot of people listening right now. They're not sure how to direct their, their kids, right? Do you have some, I mean, what are the, what are the attributes? Uh, I have a good friend, Rich Devaney, who's a Navy SEAL. He has this book called the attributes and it's really good a really good book about team building.

But what I found, man, is like people are really like, like, like almost society has almost regressed so far that people don't even know what the values or the skills or the attributes they should be teaching are. Because some of the things that are, that are popular right now in terms of cultural movements, people know in their heart are not right and they're not healthy. And so in this crazy world that where we have all of these, and by the way, I just want to say this, I agree with everything you said about the systemic problems that we have. We need better leadership in this country that is going to unify Americans as Americans,

not as black Americans, white Americans. You know, we are that leader. We are those leaders. Yeah, I know that. That's what made it clear, because we looking to beyond... It's us. Horizontal pay.

Look around. I don't do that no more. The last year or two have really opened my eyes to that. Nobody's coming. It's our turn. Sound like a friend of mine, Sean Dove, says we have to be the Calvary, the iconic leaders we've been looking for.

The Calvary's not coming. That's it, man. And this last two years, all this crazy stuff has really opened my eyes to that. And if you call yourself a patriotic American and you only care about a certain group of Americans, whether that be black or whether that be white or whether that be some other group, that's not what America's about, man.

That's not what it should be about. It shouldn't be about. No, it is what it's about now because of the way that we've been culturally groomed by our media and by these leaders that only care about their own self-interest. But see, for us, so just you understand,

it's not a hypersensitivity for black America. For us, it's never been for us. Do you understand? Yeah, I get that. So that's why it means a lot when, as compassionate as you guys are, but you back it up okay when you say i'm off the fence i'm on this side then we can build and that's why because sometimes people

think it's like we're you know uh playing a victim they minimize they minimize real issues man yeah dude look i get that yeah yeah yeah no listen listen go ahead no i i'm you know um it's it's it's there's major differences even from the way we have to pay for insurance the way we're dude a thousand percent so again we, we're that next. We're that change that we want. Yeah, tell the truth, man. No, I'm just saying, we're that change. And so, I have a lot of white friends as well, okay? Oh, that's good.

And this one, no, listen, you're silly. The only reason I say that. Do we have to qualify as we have black friends? Now you do with me, yeah, yeah. So the reason I said that is because, not to justify anything, but to say that this point, when all that was happening in 2020

with the George Floyd situation, police brutality throughout, it hurt me to see, well, I didn't hear the voices of my friends of different ethnic backgrounds. I wasn't angry I was hurt because I have their back. That's what I mean by really being, I guess, real as AF. That's when you know, when your problem, my problem becomes yours and yours is mine.

Where there's justice somewhere is everywhere. I don't like talking a lot. I don't, you know, I don't debate. I don't do all that. I cut the lights off and follow me

and I get the stuff done. No, I get that. And so that's all I'm saying. It's, if we're really about that, we'll see it. We have to. But I'm just saying, if we're really, we really want to have that type of change in this country, do it. Like, I mean, and it doesn't have to be grandiose.

Start like what you're doing, but more so than just giving, really try to deconstruct some of these systems in a stealth way. Because again, you still want to be wise. You know, I came up in the era, you know, I see some of the young guys now, my brother was very dangerous, man. Bags would come through the airport. His bags are open because of the feds. And I'm yelling like, they don't have the right to open our bags. He wanted to slap me. He says, do you understand who they are and who we are?

So everyone wants to be streetwise and tough and all these other things, but then you lose everything because you're so emotional. You can't let an enemy see you coming. You have to strategize. So once we get the hearts together and the minds renewed, these people have to come together and strategize in such a way where what we've worked hard for won't be compromised, but we'll see change. Can't be an emotionally led leader. You're done. You'll fall for anything. And that's all I'm saying.

It's like, I'm so sick of talking. I'm tired of the games and, you know, put up or shut up. I mean, straight up, because I did it. I'm not even qualified to be a CEO of any nonprofit in this country. Nobody's qualified.

Nobody's qualified to do anything. But let's check it out, though. I barely have my high school diploma. Yeah, me too. Okay, yeah. Look what's happening here. Yeah.

I did it, though. That's all I'm saying. It's like I'm so tired of the talk. If it really doesn't matter, if it's really not about this, if it's really not about you losing a position or someone gaining it, let's do it. What do you think some of the changes that need to happen? What are some of those roots

that got to get pulled up? I mean, like that? I can tell you from my point of view how it looks. This is what it looks like to me. It looks like we have,

and this is how I see society right now. I see a lot of people who are very, very wealthy or using our political system to gain wealth, creating scenarios that keep all people, all people suppressed in a certain way. Are certain people getting worse of their suppression? Absolutely. I think the black

communities have been long forgotten by the people who come to their neighborhoods every single election cycle and say, hey, guess what? We're here to fix your shit. And then they go and what happens? Nothing. It gets worse. And that's been happening over and over and over and over for 40 years. And so when I look at the big problems that we're having, our inability to connect at a ground level, meaning the actual citizens, not the elite families that run the entire country, talking about us. If we can't ever get together to look at these people in unison and say, hey, we're going to do this, we won't ever be able to get where we're going to go. Yeah, I mean, and the sad truth has been more than 40 years for us. And so it's, you know, it's like I said, it feels insurmountable because of the lies that we're being told. And then the positions, you know, again, systemic racism and for me working with young boys, black boys specifically in Detroit, to see privatized prisons not being eradicated.

Because in order for that business to survive, you have to get prisoners. See, some of these statistics that come out about how black men are pulled over more than white men. Michigan State Police just came up, came clean with that. Why? To filter a system. So why are there still privatized prisons? I can go on and on. The school system. Money being spent on stadiums that was really supposed to be spent on schools

or, or being 15, $16 billion, which I did the math, by the way, I don't remember it because my memory is not that good when it comes to this, but it was $16 billion, um,

sent to Ukraine. Okay. Now, if you take that 16 billion and you divide it let's see here by the top 55 metropolitan areas um you end up with almost 300 million dollars per metro area the top 55 metro areas that we could be putting into our inner city education. But we can do that same math when we build out the Wall Street. Oh, dude, I'm with you. Okay, so again, so we're cutting off branches now. You see what I'm saying? Yeah.

That's something that's going to keep happening. Yeah. I'm with you on that. That's what I'm saying. So we have to uproot the tree. And that's something that's going to keep happening yeah i'm with you on that that's what i'm saying so we have to uproot the tree and that's that's the biggest issue and it's so many issues for me personally i know where i'm starting at this first for me i need to well you're doing your part yeah but this is crucial i need to help people that, in my influence, release trauma. Stop allowing trauma to time travel so that the seeds that I'm planting can finally take root.

And then we can water them and grow. That's one thing that I'm doing. So when you have a great evil that's been established, you have to knock its base out. And it takes time and it's going to take a lot of effort together. But again, just talking about like, you just did the map. I did that before when they bailed out Wall Street in 2008 when the housing market collapsed. But then I quickly realized it's a system. It's a system. How much of that $16 billion do you think is even getting to Ukraine?

But I don't go there. Those are hypotheticals and assumptions. I can't entertain that space, it would drive me crazy. And so I only deal with what I can directly impact and change. That's why I'm effective at what I do. I can't, I'm not a politician. I don't know a lot about what's really going on. I study, I have friends that do. So I ask and I learn, but my specialty is helping boys and men navigate through what's going on. If I can do my part as someone who is in politics, someone who is in the criminal justice field, someone who is in government that's righteous and you do your part, I don't try to do other people's job or callings. I don't answer no one's call, but mine. What God called me to do, I'm doing that. However, if I can have a platform to put

the right people who can speak on all these issues in that position, if we really want to get changed, okay, let me bring the right people with me and let's really dialogue and let's leave the table with some concrete strategies to bring forth change. But as far as just, you know, I did, I'm telling you, I did that, man. And I lost focus of what I was called to do. And I made the greatest change when I just said, you know what? Yeshua, Jesus said it the best. He says, the poor will always be with us, but I will not. What was happening was Mary was anointing him with oil, getting ready for his crucifixion. She was anointing him for what he getting ready for his crucifixion. She was anointing him for what he had came to do.

The disciples were mad because the oil was very expensive and they could have sold it and gave to the poor. He says, the poor will be with you, but I will not. The poor will always be with you, but I will not. Basically, they should have been embracing in the moment that he was there, embracing this moment, what they could be doing right now. So for me, I've learned that there will always be evil period as long as there's good not even that like you know again spiritually is written that the ruler of this world is satan people don't even know that it's written that's why the good always catch it here you ever notice that i could build a rocket

ship out of wood to sell drugs and i wouldn't have no issues it would it would land on the moon whatever but let me try to save a family pouring to kids like you're doing go to feed uh children in haiti you'll catch more hell trying to do that because it's much more than what we see in the natural that's happening as well i agree with that yeah bro and so again if if you know conversations are great i like action yeah and so putting the right people the right hearts together who are specialists in their field that's how we can really get to the solution that's why I don't speak on a lot. I speak on what I do. Yeah. In reference, you said, you know, in a George Floyd situation about get off the fence and speak, you wish your friends would have done that. What do you mean? What do you wish your friends would have done? Basically, well, I won't even say I wish, I just say it hurt that they

didn't say a word like, this is unfair, or this is evil, this is un this is unright you know not right uh even when i we protested uh george floyd's death it was beautiful to see all of the cultures gathered together but you know if the shoe was on the other foot and your people hate to say white people were were oppressed right brought to this country enslaved you've raped killed then when you get out of slavery you try to establish your own city then it's bombed like Tulsa Oklahoma it's constant always tearing you down and then you see a man basically die because the officer has his knee on his neck and he can't breathe. And I'm your friend. And everyone on social media is talking about it.

And I love Sal. I eat dinner with Sal. We talk. We play games. We go to the gun range together. And I don't say a word. That says a lot to you. Silence sometimes is louder than a bomb.

And that's what hurts. That's when when you say maybe we really aren't together i see i i got a problem with that a little bit go ahead uh mike brown happened here in st louis yes okay and i actually know a lot of police officers that dealt with that guy and he was a career criminal. Okay. Earlier that day, he had robbed a convenience store actually like five minutes before the incident happened. All aside, shouldn't have been shot. Should have never happened.

Okay. Totally agree. Black lives matter started here in Ferguson, the organization black lives matter. And it's funded by a guy named George Soros. Okay. They took all these millions of dollars from all these people here in St. Louis and they were gone. That was 2014. So when George Floyd happened and everybody was saying, give money to BLM and black square and this and that, I had already observed what Black Lives

Matter, the organization was about. So I said, am I fucking posting observed what Black Lives Matter, the organization, was about. So I started my fucking posting that because it's not the truth. Now, Black Lives Matter, the cause, the statement, amazing. I agree. March all day for that. I will march all day with that 100%. But I can't be sucked into a propaganda play that is designed to steal money for causes that have nothing to do with this real cause. Okay, you're missing the principle. No, no, no. Okay, listen. No, no, hold on.

Okay, go ahead. Listen. When I didn't post that black square, I had hundreds of people calling my company. I had people in my DMs calling me a racist, calling me every name in the book that there could possibly be called because I knew better than to promote an organization that was named creatively BLM, Black Lives. Who doesn't agree that Black Lives Matter? Everybody agrees that Black Lives Matter. What I don't agree with is white powerful people creating organizations and hashtags that are creatively placed to siphon money to do whatever they want with and by the way we're seeing the same thing with stan with ukraine exactly so now again andy

respectfully you missed the principle i understand everything you're saying i've heard that argument even from black people yeah i'm talking about a man being murdered i didn't say you post a black square no no no i'm not saying no i'm just saying the principle i'm just giving you the other side oh no i'm yeah but that's really not where i'm going i hear what you're saying i'm talking about a man being murdered for whatever he, what was he accused of doing? I think passive fat checks or something. And I've seen my white brothers point guns at police officers and they don't get shot at.

So now, so just let me just finish this point. So what I'm saying is this, I'm not, I'm saying that for me not to hear one thing, you're going to post a black shit and say, this is not right. No, it was definitely not right.

That's all I'm saying. Or let me go a little deeper. You can actually go back to our show. I told him. This is fucking murder. I'm not saying you guys are. We're just talking hypothetically. No, no, no.

I understand. I know who you are. I wouldn't be here. But listen, you guys, listen. Great. What I'm saying is I didn't get a personal call. Yeah. See, it's-

Well, in all fairness, we didn't know you yet. He's tripping. He's tripping. But you see what I'm saying? Yeah. No, I understand your point. I'm talking on a personal level. And so that's why, I say again, you got branches and you got the roots.

And we're cutting off branches and we're complaining about this big old tree and we're just cutting the branches. I think Andrew's point, though, is it's a system and that's, you know, he's identifying. We're being manipulated. Correct. Yeah. Manipulation. And that's okay. So listen, so again, that's true, right?

It's not the principle of what I'm talking about. No, no, no. I don't think every single person listening agrees with exactly what you're saying. That was disgusting. It made everybody upset. It caused so much problems in society that we are still now dealing with divisiveness based upon this exact scenario. But even the principal, Andy, what I'm talking about, how my friends didn't say anything. Yeah.

I'm not even talking about that. I'm still down here at this base level. Well, what should they say? Cause like that would be like, I would feel weird. Like I'm just being real. I mean,

I'm like, let's say this happened and let's say this happened. And like, I, what do I, what do I say? Hey, Jay,

man, you know, this, first of all, this is messed up. Identify what you're going with your pain. How can I support? Yeah.

Same thing we do with when there's chaos in other countries. Yeah. No, it's reasonable. So that's us. No, I'm asking that deep. I was just talking to you as my brother. Cause you asked a reasonable. Yeah. So that's us. No, I'm asking. It's not even that deep.

I was just talking to you as my brother because you asked a question. Oh, no, no, no. Bro, look, this is good to talk about. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.

I think that people have to see this conversation go down or hear it to understand, okay? Like, where does, because my point being is we're on that side of the fence. So there's no, you know,

in my brain. My point, my, my whole point in it is that we i'm of the opinion and i'm pretty confident in this opinion that we are intentionally manipulated to not like each other and not communicate and not learn from each other and not connect and we not not not only through the media propaganda and the political politicians know. Okay.

And I'm going to get off of what we could, this is the big picture. Now, these people know that if we never get together on the ground level, they get to keep their job and their position. They get to keep doing this over and over and over and over again. And when i see shady shit going down around things just like you would i'm gonna say it i'm gonna say no that's not

right right and my whole point of bringing up what do you say is like i i'm being honest like i wouldn't say yeah honestly i mean yeah you, and maybe some of my friends didn't. And to this, it's not like we're not close. Yeah, it's coming from a white person. It's a heart. Like, I wouldn't know what to say to an individual. And I had to. If that was your brother, if that was a family member,

okay, I can understand that. But I consider anyone that I'm close with, if you're with me and I will fight or something go down, you're like a brother to me. No, no. I was talking about like if, if George Floyd was your brother.

I got it. So, and so, and so, and I received that. I do receive that. Yeah. And,

but that's why, you know, I'm, I'm okay with saying, Hey, did I take this wrong way? But this is how this bothered me. Yeah.

Yeah. And that's why it's important. People are afraid to have dialogue at all, man. Because it's, it's, it's, it's emotionally tough.

Yeah, so if you're not used to being, expressing your emotions and releasing them, you can't deal with feeling hurt. It's going to come off like, man, you done pissed me off, dog. Everything's a confrontation. Yeah. I teach the men I work with, yeah,

tell this brother when there's some beef going on, tell him he hurt you. Why? Because you don't trust me and i've been down with you for 20 years i took a bullet for you yeah it hurt me that you accused me of stealing or whatever yeah because that's the root cause of that anger the anger is a surface emotion that's a great that's why we can't have these conversations as long as you slave to your emotions you can't never really this whole country's in fight or flight yeah oh yeah reason

wisdom it's gone no one is entertaining any of that no it's either it's either this or this it's high emotional manipulation so for me you know again it's it's i'm just i'm 52 this year which is still young i just don't have time to waste. Yeah. And so even, man, I used to be. You're doing an amazing job, bro. But this is what I'm saying, though, bro. I used to be heavy into conspiracy theories.

I mean, like, what I've learned is that the things that I've studied maybe 20 years ago. You mean conspiracy realities. I had some theories, though. No, I had some theories. You'd be like, Jay, you tripping. I had some theories, though. I had some theories. You'd be like, Jay, you tripping. I had some theories, all right? But no, 20 years ago. You might be surprised about that.

No, I'm saying. No, no. I say, some people say I'm a critical thinker. So I get what you're saying. But there are some stuff out there. Come on, dog. But listen. Listen to what I'm saying.

But 20 years ago. You're giving all those conspiracy theories a bad name. No, listen, so 20 years, some of the same stuff is still talked about. I'm like,

there's no wisdom. Something is wrong here. Yeah. And so that's my whole thing is again, it's like I sit and look and I watch and say, that's a waste of my time it's like a commercial

we got to handle the problems in front of us I saw a commercial um and I don't know what company was it was in a women's restroom and the faucet was just running and all of them just staring at the are staring at the faucet and a little girl walks in look at all the women staring at the faucet and she just cuts it off and then walks out that's society you can fix this the problem but are you willing to do man and and that's the thing so we can talk because it's safe we can have doubt that's why there's so many podcasts now people you can find talkers anywhere. Change makers is hard to find. Doers. Yeah.

And so I don't, you can keep all of that stuff, man. I'm transforming the lives that God placed in front of me. I think that's how the problem is overcome. So you got, we got the answer. So now the key thing is next steps. Strategically. How do we scale that? You got to start here.

Yeah. Strategically meet. We can't resolve it in this one episode, but we can do something. I came down here for more than an episode. You guys helped me

just by me seeing how things are ran. Here. Well, now we're going to do, we're going to do even more together. We're going to bring your team down. I'm going to bring my boys down

because I want them to see there's more to life than sports. Yeah. Because I know that gift. I got kids play violin and cello yeah but we don't celebrate we gotta look at the this is a point i make all the time on the show that people that people forget about you've been to europe no i haven't okay well if you go to your well you don't have to go you get on the internet and just look at it look at the buildings they built 500 years ago. Look at the shit we're building.

You see what I'm saying? And we're saying, oh, it's technology. It's so amazing. That's nothing to leave our kids. Like this phone, and I tell my wife this often, this was created to make us more efficient, to actually have more time. But it's actually taken our time.

It's done the opposite. All of it. Yeah. And it's created a fake identity for everybody that's a whole nother ballgame now yeah and so but i say that to say is that when you cut this off all the talking all this other stuff the showboating the you know you can get some things done yeah get to living you can get it you can get some things done. Yeah. Get to living. You can get it done. That's why, let me go back to the foundation

of the conversation of family. We're not present. Yeah. We come home. You know, I was convicted for the longest thing. It was like 15 minutes a day I was spending with my son.

I was at the dinner table and we would watch a little sports. 15 minutes a day. If I, when we as old men, we start, we're sitting on our front porches, you ain't going to care about

none of this you built. Only thing we're going to care about is our children and our wife. What am I going to care about? Me? I don't have no children. You're going to care about

all those 400 children out there? That's a fact. Well, there's special relationships too that count. He's messing with us. You know that? I'm teasing you guys.

But he's going to be on the porch with us. Look, you can't not listen to this man. I feel like we've been sitting here talking to another dad.

Well, for real. For us, like a brother. Well, literally, like the connection, you know, you connect with people another dad. Well, for real. For us, like a brother. Well, literally, like the connection. You connect with people, right? Connection is real. When you talk about you've got to get the kids off the street,

I actually want to kind of challenge the sport thing, teach them more than sport. And it only comes from experience. Because I actually view myself as colorblind that way. And the reason I view myself as colorblind is because of the locker room and because of sport. I didn't play with black kids and white kids and pink kids. I play with kids. was colorblind that way. And the reason I view myself as colorblind is because of the locker room and because of sport. You know, I didn't play with black kids and white kids

and pink kids and I play with kids. And then when I graduated and you go to college, those were my guys. And then you play in pro ball, like those are my teammates. Those are my dudes.

And sport taught me to be that way. You know, and you know, I have Anthony Monaghan is one of the brothers I played with in Chicago. Like when all the shit broke out in Chicago, like the first call you know he is my first call hey yeah i know you this is where you about where you live you all right yeah actually

we moved out of this thanks for checking in but so sport taught me that in that capacity and you know i think there's a lot of good things that happen inside of the locker room and a lot of you know necessary things necessary things and leadership and competitiveness. And, you know, and I'm not saying they don't happen in other environments. I'm just saying they are very prominent. So I'm glad you brought this up, bro, because I don't want people to think that I'm anti sports. No, I know. Just I'm going to be clear because I'm not, you know, I'm very fallible.

OK, just too much weight in it. No, not only that, I'm just saying there aren't enough character coaches. I guess that's what I need to place more emphasis on. Sports is very powerful if you use principles and teach boys really more than just playing a game. Tie all of that to life like Vince Lombardi did.

I mean, I can have a bowling league and i could transform that's right i mean so so did you notice this culture is transformed not the sport yeah okay yeah good see so that was my only so let me i'm glad i want to clarify that and that's something i probably need to be more aware of when i'm talking because i don't have an issue with it i think you say it right dude it's just it's just so much more to it. Like for instance, you're a prime example. Look how much time we invest in playing a game or a sport that's typically four to five years. So your entire life, could you imagine going to school your entire life for a four-year job? No, it doesn't make sense sense at all the problem is sports aren't extracurricular

because you can't miss practice and say i got to study for this exam coach but i'll be at the game and expect to play you see and that's the confusion point that's my only thing sports is great man i love the competition teaching boys how to deal with anger and disappointment you missed that shot i'm diving right in how are you feeling i can tell you this there's value in both of those there's value in both the individual uh sports like what you you teach yes and also team sports but i think you know i don't think you say it wrong bro bro. I think you say it right. And I think there should be a cultural value on getting recognition for your achievements outside of sports. Because I grew up playing sports as well. You know, Sal doesn't like to tell people this, but I was actually way better than him. So, you know.

It's humility. It's humility. It's humility. But, you know, the thing is, and like this is where I was getting back to with like the traditionalism, so to speak, in terms of architecture, right? I think these things are important, man. Because like look at all the, look at art then and look at art now. You know, what's considered art now. Like dude staples a hot dog to a wall and it sells for $2 million. It's like, bro, come on. A blank white canvas.

Yeah, dude. It's like a big troll. Everything's a troll or a joke. And what the world that we're leaving because we value a very small amount of things to- I get that. Yeah. You don't have to sell it no more. No, no, no. i'm talking to these guys but

you're real i mean because sal i'm thinking about laying ceramic and marble yeah okay do it well listen listen i've seen guys i had one employee because we would beat our tiles in the thinset to make sure there was no voice okay there was a hairline crack in one of the tiles and he called me over he says you think she'll notice it i said that's not important i noticed that's right and so i absolutely agree i had another we was getting wi-fi put throughout our building and the guy's a friend of mine and it was i guess the little hot spot whatever his call was in the ceiling and um i looked up at it he looked up at it he says yeah i know

you know you're very meticulous i said oh it's not called being meticulous i just want it right because it was he cut the hole out but it was too big for the device he said what do you mean i said well with that company the maker of that device come in here hire professional photographer to take a picture of the way that was installed for their brochure no he said no i said that's not meticulous that's being right and so to your point so much stuff is just able to just fly and so when you just like this principles you guys teach around standards like pushing the chair up to the desk like when you leave your desk like i started believing something was wrong with me at the office like you're tripping you know i said no it's just it's not right you're

not there put the chair back what was the first thing i said everybody in this building we moved in here chair's going back i said if your chair is not back in that thing you will not you'll come back and there will be you will not have a place to sit you won't have a job but it's the principle yeah it is but you there are no principles because everything is quick fix yeah it's instant principles are built over time that's right and so i agree with you but i'm also careful because some of the most creative things may not look as the way we wanted them or we were used to but are great i'm glad they were invented for sure but yet to your point a hot dog on the wall it's like come on dude yeah but it's a it's a it's a it's a uh hard line you know it's really just like hey either this way or that way i guess the principle is do it with integrity yeah you

know what i mean if you can you can do whether if you're artists paint with integrity yeah you know i build build with integrity if no one sees it do you see it all the years i laid tile man i didn't have any customer complaints yeah i went above and beyond and and that's just you know that's what you know again we train in martial arts you know like we were talking about grappling earlier you know i'm not you know we don't focus on just jiu-jitsu but i love the principles in jujitsu. And while most of my friends practice jujitsu, when you teach a boy not to let someone take your back, in life, there's so many principles you can tie to that. Always keep your problems in front of you.

And we train that way. So now it's downloaded. So when you're grappling, you know not to give anyone your back. And in life, you know to keep things in front of you. And that's why when you teach principles, it may take you longer in the cave, but you can go in the gym and train and pick up from another teacher. Like, man, how do you learn so fast? Because I know the why to why this works.

And that's the key. And as men, we have to teach our kids patience, the long road. Like my son, I didn't know my son, man, I put pressure on him to perform. Because unknowingly, I didn't. But because of all the things I'm able to accomplish, he's like, man, I can't do nothing. You know, dad can do it instantly. It hit me one day.

I said, oh, son, I get it. You're looking at the finished product. My daughter saw the work. So my daughter, hardworking, I mean, she handles her business in California. My son sees the finished product. So now I have to go back as much as my body aching, as tired as I am to show him the process. And so I really don't even blame my children. I blame the adults again. Are we really spending enough time with the children of this generation to show them the process or are we too busy on our phones and iPads? You go to the average, go out to eat with

your family. Everybody's on their phones. When you get home, you won't need a tv in the bedroom no more we got ipads so who's really to blame for the culture being the way it is and that's why i say you know look in that mirror man and and i love the way you're sure jesus said it he says don't be a hypocrite first take the plank out of your own eye then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brothers so when you constantly i'm in the mirror some very specific words i stopped it's a big difference i stopped judging people because i kept seeing planks in my own eye and then it wasn't until i can remove it am i able to help them remove theirs when you're dealing with someone's eye it'll be very sensitive you can't just say let me get that out your eye, man.

Grab it out. Blow it out. Even, you know, I could just tap on your eyelid and it can hurt you. That's how we're supposed to be with each other when we're struggling. When we got things in our life that for some reason it's just too much. It's controlling us. It's an addiction. We can't do that.

We have to be patient and say give me give me a moment i can get i can see now let me get this out your eye and then what's sweet is also sweet about that is that we know what it feels like to have something even bigger in our eye so when we do that man you stop judging you stop complaining about your children i remember when covid first happened the, the teachers was upset at my son because he had some missing assignments. Great teachers, don't get me wrong, because it was difficult to transition from in-person to virtual. It was very hard if you're a caring teacher. And I told the teacher, I said, listen, I want you to know that there will always be an asterisk

by 2020 on this report card. When you scroll to the bottom, it's going to say pandemic. What I mean by that is that you will not pressure my son into doing school the way he did when he was in person when we're in the midst of a pandemic. That conversation allowed me to speak more with them and they were able to help them teach more because again, we're performance based as a people. When they were saying, wait a minute, let me adapt to this.

That's why I hate I found Jiu Jitsu so late. You have to adapt. How old were you when you found it? 2004. So I was 30, 34 I think.

And then I didn't take it serious because again, you're still coming out to tradition, the hands, you know, you want to look sweet with the kicks, but you just,

who nullifies that. Yeah. So I didn't really get serious, man. I would say until 2000 and Tyrone. Good. I met him. I'll say 2013.

You say Woodley Tyrone. Oh, I text Tyron. Well, I know he told you text me too. Okay. Yeah. He's pissed off off he's in Hawaii

listen well that's a beautiful brother yeah yeah that's a beautiful brother but um I forgot what was I saying we didn't shift it so much

but um what was I saying you were talking about um Jiu Jitsu discovering it and when you started taking the shoes

when you started Tyron yeah but then prior to that because i forgot i got there i got you off track bro it's okay man but yeah but you know again just um i guess the principle of this whole conversation man is making sure we as adults and men are modeling what we want to see yep and if we can grasp that and of course spend time with our children and then another thing man and it's this is going to be hard. We haven't talked about marriage.

You know, a lot of times we worry about Cain and Abel, but not Adam and Eve. And so I share this, and I shared it with you, Sal, I believe. I think I shared it with you. My wife recently, man, just had a, something just came up in her. She did some introspective work and 30 years of words and things I would say to her that was negative started coming out. She hadn't gotten over, but she would suppress it just to keep the marriage going. So we went to our psychotherapist who are our marriage counselors. I'm so thankful I am where I am now because each session was five

hours. So imagine sitting across from your wife and hearing the words that you said to her that actually shaped the way she think about herself. As men, we have to get to the place where we don't run from those conversations anymore. That's why so many marriages fail like 25 years, 30 years. Why did you get divorced now? Because now you're tripping over the lump that you hid for so long under the rug. So my wife and I, we never wanted to be that couple. And I was able to say like, man, I couldn't even remember half the stuff. I just said, I'm sorry, you're not that. You know, and man, when men can get there, I really believe, you not only see our communities change, but the world.

When we can actually live from our hearts instead of our egos, man, it's the sky's the limit, man. Things would drastically change. And that's my mission. And I, you know, I'm going to stay focused on it. How can people support that mission? My nonprofit is called The Union. It's spelled with a Y in front of it. So our website is www.theunion.org. That's T-H-E, the letter Y, then the word union.org. And you can donate there.

We're renovating our second floor, creating a computer lab, a multipurpose room, a health and wellness room where we help kids release trauma as well through there, through neural feedback, counseling, as well as meditation. And we also have a film studio as well there to teach them how to start podcasts and other things where they can generate income that aligns with their passion. And then of course, the Cave of O'Dellum is the top floor. The entire third floor is the cave. And you can support a child who can't afford tuition there. Because again, we have to keep our lights on. And so a lot of our donors who I'm so thankful for, they sponsor a

kid. I said, well, right now we're good. They said, I don't care. I'm going to pay this a month and you let me know when they're ready. And so that's how they can support us. And that would be truly a blessing so we can continue to, again, do what we can, what we're called to do. That's awesome, man. Thanks, man.

Thank you. Dude, this has been, you have a gift, by the way. I know you probably are aware of this, but you have an amazing gift to open perspectives and make people think about things in a different way. And this show has been, I mean, probably the show I've said the least about on the 600 episodes I've ever done for a reason.

And I just want to thank you, man, and commend you for the work that you're doing and say that it's very much appreciated. We talk a lot on this show about handling the problems right in front of you and you're the living embodiment of that. Um, I love the focus on it. I love that you're so focused and you understand cause dude, that's where I'm coming to. You know, I'm coming to the, I'm coming to the point where the mountain is so big and so overwhelming that I'm realizing that I can only control what's right in front of me. And if I do try to worry about the mountain problem, it'll never get fixed because I'm

just looking at the mountain and, uh, that's no difference in building a business or building a physique or building your mentality or building anything. And, um, dude, I just, I, I, this has been a wonderful experience, man. I'm really glad that you came down and be on the show. Thank you. I'm honored. And, um, I'm really humbled, man. When I say it's, it's not me, it's, it's he who was in me.

It's all God, man, because I know who I am. Yeah. You know what i mean and i'm thankful that i can be used in a way to to give people hope and different perspectives uh without everyone staying in fight or flight i just won't change man i don't want to waste time no more man you know and so thank you that means a lot you know i i uh affirmation I've learned to receive it instead of always deflecting, deflecting it and saying, you're doing great. You're doing great.

Um, because that's what helps me keep going when things get tough. So thank you. Well, it, it, it, it's, it's not, uh, it's not chatter. It's real stuff. And, uh, if you guys follow this man and you watch anything that he does, uh, or read what he's about, you are the change that's needed, brother. You are.

And anybody listening right now who is understandably confused and upset by what's going on in the world, like we say all the time, man, it's handling what's in front of you. And it's making the people better that are in front of you. And it's pouring into the people that are in front of you if we all do that things collectively will get better so thank you so much for making the trip to be on the show we'll do this again definitely i'll be back i i want to bring the boys down here to see yeah all this great work you're doing and then the principles i haven't seen a piece of trash anywhere i thought i had you i went to the restroom restroom i said i see paper on the ground but when i looked closer it was the logo on the mat in front of the

i said this is ridiculous i mean seriously man and i mean but that stuff is so important man well we teach that here too just like you teach the the like you were talking about the the wi-fi in the ceiling right you know what people have to understand when it comes to these skills, skills of discipline, skills of doing things the right way, all of the things that we are confronted with on a daily basis contribute to those skill sets being present inside of us, right? So I'm a bit, like, I'm weird about it. Like you said, oh, we could talk some, like, I'm a weirdo.

Like, if I see a speck of paper on the floor, I don't think it. Like you said, oh, we could talk some, like, I'm a weirdo. Like, if I see a speck of paper on the floor, I don't think it's a speck of paper. I look at it and I say, if I don't pick that up, man, I'm going backwards. And it's been hard to get here. So I don't want to go backwards. So I still, all those little details, like you said, it's not being meticulous. It's just being the way it should be. People don't understand Disney World had the same model.

Yeah. I worked at a charter school in Detroit, one of the best. When they first opened, I did security there. The kids did not want to leave. He made it like Disney World. And I asked the CEO, I'm like, well, what is it? He was like, you ever seen litter at Disney World? I said, no. He says, you won't see litter here.

It makes people feel more valuable. Yeah. And they're in a special place. And so when I walked in here, I told my program director, I said, man, there's no trash anywhere. Not a piece of paper, even in the lunchroom, where you can expect to see something. You find something, you come get me. If you find something, you better pick it up. But even that, you know, and I don't want to just keep hammering this point,

man, but this is deep. So when I went into your workout area, all the dumbbells were in order and in the right place and then turned the correct way. So when DJ was showing me this, he was like, man, doing this or this being out of order could probably cost you your job. People may not understand what you're really teaching them, but see if they move on from here to somewhere else.

See, everybody wants to be an entrepreneur, but they don't understand that's very hard. When you become one, you realize how important the principles are that you teach. And I just take my hat off, man. That's why I want my boys to come not only to dream big, but to see the principles. Do you see anything out of order in here? Now I want you to go back to your rooms and tell me, does it line up with the principles you just saw? And then does it even line up with the dream you want to attain?

So until we do those things. All those things, things dude as an investment in what we're doing like i look at here's how i look at it man if i walk past that piece of paper i just lowered my standard so like just like a video game it has speed 99 i say discipline 99 okay and when i walk by that and i don't do anything about it i just went to 90 right and if i do pick it up i get to keep my standard up there right that's what sal said remember i said don't give on your standard yeah man i i see trash blowing to our property yeah i grab my orange home depot bucket and my the little thorns to pick up trash because i feel if i walk by it it's like god is like are you being a good steward of what I've given you? Right. I go grab that, clean it up.

Yep. I said today CEO stands for custodian. That's right. C stands for custodian. I don't care, man. You know, and so again, man, like I said, you know, this is, this is amazing, man. I kind of wish you could like have a model to teach business owners because I haven't walked in a place like this, I don't believe, in my life. Thank you. I mean, I'm straight up.

I'm serious. And it's nothing in here, man. This is what I was waiting on. This is funny. We had lunch together, me, DJ, and Sal. And so, you know, it's glass table. It's beautiful. For those who listen, they got their logo lit up in the glass table and we're eating lunch at this table.

So when we finished, I said, like, who cleans the table? Because it's glass. DJ grabs a spray. I'm like, he got it up immediately. That's what it takes. Yeah. Don't hold the line, man. Teamwork makes the teamwork.

It's just. Well, it means a lot that you value that because that scoots over a lot of people's heads well i know i know you get it yeah yeah it's uh we're cutting the same cloth yeah for sure and that's just i went to baseball practice yesterday and what there was only one person picking up trash in the field you that's right yeah you know what i mean yeah Yeah, man. I just can't stand it. The hope is the next practice, there'll be two or three. That's it.

And they see you. They see you, yeah. I remember the charter school. If the CEO was picking up trash, whoo, it was a problem, boy. I mean, you try to beat him. I got it. I got it. Because he's in these nice suits yeah he's in

the grass grabbing said no this is what i said need to be done maybe i got the wrong staff yeah you know and so man i commend you this is it's just amazing thank you man and we commend you back i i we were i could speak for all us. We really appreciate what you're doing. And it may not get the accolades, the big accolades and the bit, you know, all these things where you're doing is what really matters, man. And, um, thank you for doing it. Thank you, bro. Yeah.

Thank you. Appreciate you guys. Yeah, definitely. Yep. Definitely. So guys, that's the show. If it brought you some value, if it made you think, if it made you see a new perspective, if it taught you some things, if you thought it was worth sharing, please share the show.

That's how we grow the show. So I appreciate you guys. I love you guys. We'll talk to you next time.