REAL AF with Andy Frisella - 402. Andy, Dr. Layne Norton & DJ CTI...

Episode Date: October 21, 2022

In today's episode, Andy & DJ are joined in the studio by Dr. Layne Norton. Layne is a well-respected scientist, pro-natural bodybuilder, raw elite powerlifter, and entrepreneur, among other things. They discuss Layne's journey that has led him to a reputable name in the fitness industry, why blaming your lack of success on genetics is not a valid excuse, and the critical role resilience plays in achieving success in all areas of life.

What is up guys, it's Andy Priscilla and this is the show for the realest, say goodbye to the lies, the fakeness and delusions of modern society and welcome to motherfucking reality guys i've got something and it's really fucking good you're gonna want to come here come in closer lean in a little bit because today we have andy and dj and dr lane norton cruise the motherfucking internet. That's fucking right. And you heard that right to Lane Norton is sitting standing five feet from me. Actually, he's standing.

How are you, bro? I'm so relieved that you can drop F bombs here. I feel like I found my people. You have. Sorry. I found my motherfucking people. There you go.

Yeah, you definitely have. There you go, bro. Thank you so much for coming in. It's been a long time. We've been trying to get this show together. Excited to have you.

Excited to have you in the building. And, you know, for those of you guys that don't know, Lane is one of the premier, I would say, the benchmark for bullshit in the nutritional supplement industry, training industry, basically the entire fitness community, Lane has served as, and by the way, there's a ton of things he's accomplished. I mean, dude, he's a world-class power lifter. He's an entrepreneur. He's a PhD. He's handsome.

Yeah, he's fucking super handsome. It's true you know he he has a he has been a mainstay in our industry for i don't know 20 plus years you know and uh and he he sets the bar for the truth when it comes to what companies are doing or what's true what's not true and i and he does an amazing job at helping educate people on how to get better with real science. And, uh, bro, thank you for everything that you do, man, because it's a, it's a, it's an awesome, it's an awesome thing to have witnessed for so many years. You know, we've talked for, for years and years and years. Uh, and this is the first time we've actually gotten to get together. So it's really cool to

have you on the show, brother. No, I'm, I'm grateful. I feel like it's, uh, you know, after that introduction, I can only go downhill from here. That's right. I apologize to everybody for the disappointment in advance, but no, honestly, like, um, you know, it's funny. My director of operations actually was like, you know what? You and Andy would have an awesome podcast together.

You should reach out. And I'm like, you know, maybe a little ego thing And I'm like, you know, I made a little ego thing where I'm like, you know, I don't like asking to be on things. And then Andy and I had talked back and forth via DMs and text message for years. And I'm like, listen to the episode. I'm like, yeah, this motherfucker and I would vibe for sure. So I think we sat down and there you came over

and we just were like talking about stuff that would have made for an awesome episode for about an hour anyway. So no, it's been great. And everybody has been like, just so hospitable. Like it's, um, I've really appreciated. It's been a great experience. Yeah, brother.

Anytime, man. You know, uh, it's weird. I don't ever ask my friends to come on the show for the reason I just described to you off air. Okay. I just got done saying to lane i said hey dude if uh if i get a little too hot or become a liability to your brand right make sure you let me know because i don't want to and the reason i don't ask my friends to come on the show

is because i'm comfortable with the heat i'm comfortable with the fuck i'm used to being called all the names and all the things and uh you know i don't sometimes that gets put on other people and i don't like that so that's why yeah i mean i i'm not exactly no you're not a music controversy people like are you sure you want to call people out like what if they don't what if like i'm like honestly all the people i call i don't really like i don't want to do business with them yeah i don't like that's not my people so let's talk about you for a second before we get into the actual show my favorite subject yes mine too mine is myself let's let's do what all the podcasts do and let's argue about who's cooler and talk about all our competition that was a dig on the table right there yeah you you can't

participate you're only 27 years old all right you haven't paid your dues yet but lane and i was because we can participate got enough gray hairs that's right dude uh tell everybody a little bit about yourself and how you got to be here because um inside the fitness industry lane is very very very well known uh a very very well known known name so um let's hear it how did you get in how did you even get into training dude yeah so i described myself uh one of two ways either a meathead who loves science or a science geek who loves to lift heavy shit yeah um i got into lifting because i got bullied really terribly all throughout like elementary middle, high school. And I mean, more than just the average jokes and stuff, just brutally bullied pretty much every day.

Yeah, it's rough. It makes me... I remember the first time my daughter came home and she had said that a kid said something mean to her. And I had to say, honey, remember like them saying that to you is only because how they feel about themselves yeah you know it's hard to explain that to a six-year-old yeah it's hard to understand that even today so i got bullied a lot didn't get much attention from girls and so i started lifting weights because i figured i'd solve those problems it didn't solve

either of those problems uh but i fell in love with lifting weights and, um, you know, I, I kind of picked it up from 14, from age 14 to 16. And like, literally I had a set of sand weights that were in my basement from my dad had, I couldn't afford to get a trainer or a gym membership or anything. So I walked down to the library, checked out a book on strength training. This is back when you actually checked out books at the library. Um, and just read it and made up my own program and started lifting weights every day. And I kind of like did it on and off. And by on and off, I mean, I got my first girlfriend and I stopped it and then she dumped me and I started again. But when I started again at age 17, I never put it down. And I played sports all throughout high school. I played baseball.

And then as baseball was coming to an end, my high school career was coming to an end. I knew I wasn't going to play in college. probably could have walked on somewhere but you know average height right-handed medium hitting first baseman aren't really like a hot commodity you know so i was like well i could like pour myself into this weightlifting thing and i could do bodybuilding like that seemed like a natural progression i was already reading bodybuilding magazines and whatnot and got to college. And originally I'd gone to college to do marine biology, but I had just like really started getting involved

in bodybuilding. And so I changed my major to biology because I didn't really know what I wanted to do with my life. And then I had a great, I had great professors and my general chemistry professor, Dr. Schnabel, give him a shout out here, Chris Schnabel said, Lane, you don't, you don't want to do biology. If you get a degree and you don't go to grad school or med school,

you're just like a bio major or pre-med major who didn't get into med school. You should do biochemistry. And that's going to teach you everything about the human body anyway. So I was like, again, thinking like, I'm sure you've had these like moments where your life branched one way or the other based on what seemed at the time to be like kind of an inconsequential decision. So I changed my major to biochemistry. And then I did my first show the summer after my freshman year. I won the teen division at a bodybuilding show and I was hooked.

And around that same time, I had started posting on the bodybuilding.com message boards. Now for you youngins out there, this was social media before social media existed. Right. Okay. It was these forums. It was the only way you could really get information quickly about bodybuilding. And this is also where my introduction to you started. Right. Right.

So I was posting on bodybuilding.com's message board and a couple of the guys on there had said, hey, you know, you ought to consider writing for the site because you're a competitive bodybuilder, you're doing a degree in science, and you write pretty well. Your posts are well put together. I was like, oh, they wouldn't want me. And then just on a whim, I reached out. They were like, yeah, write for us. So I started writing articles for them, did that for a long time. And so it kind of grew in popularity.

And then as I got to the end of my undergraduate career i kept writing i kept competing and i still i didn't know what i wanted to do at the time i kind of told you like at the time this is circa 2003 if you wanted to make a living in the fitness industry which i knew i wanted to do like i knew i was in love with bodybuilding but i mean at the time what was your options? Go be Mr. Olympia. Yeah, figure out how to get into magazines. Right, right. Yeah.

Be a personal trainer, start a supplement company, start a gym. Those are pretty much your options. Wasn't really interested in being a personal trainer. That didn't call to me. Didn't feel like I was going to be Mr. Olympia. And starting up my own companies, I came from a poor family and had no capital right so maybe there was a way but at the time i didn't visualize it so i was like well maybe i'll go to graduate school and just delay the real year is this this is like 2003 i was a

junior in college yeah bro we had just started our retail stores so we started our retail stores in 99 yeah and i can remember sitting in the back this is so fucking weird it's weird that we're sitting here right now because i could we lived in the back of that first store yeah for the first three years on and off so me and chris um and bro i can remember i had this fucking little computer it was back it was it i had my corner of the fucking back area right chris had his corner and dude i would sit on line because dude we'd only see one or two customers a day at that point. Right. So like I'm fucking reading on bodybuilding.com,

you know, I'm trying to learn shit because bro, I didn't know anything. You know what I mean? So like, I'm sitting here reading your shit back as you're, as you're dude, it's just weird.

And now the timelines have like collided. Converge. Like it's fucking cool, man. Yeah. So I, I, I'm on the archive page of bodybuilder

looking at all the posts right now yeah yeah oh yeah tons of them you should read them all you learn a lot i think on the forum i made like and so this is funny it's like you know we were um i think at lunch sal and we were talking and somebody asked how long it took to build this you said it how long it took to build this 20 years that's right you know yeah like yeah because you're just looking at the building but how long it take to build it and i look back and people will be like oh well like they'll say like i want to do what you do how'd you do it i'm like well go make a hundred thousand posts on a bunch of different bodybuilding forums over 10 years answer about a quarter of a million emails for free never expecting anything that's right and

then also by the way like probably about 50,000 direct messages on these different forums, right? That's right. So I was in my junior year, decided I'll go to grad school or at least apply to grad school to delay the real world a little bit longer. And hopefully if I had a master's degree or PhD, I wouldn't be in the unemployment line. That was my game plan, right? And I didn't know where to go.

And at the time, PubMed, which is where you find this repository of scientific studies, had just kind of started. And I was just like, well, instead of going through every school and trying to find an advisor who fits with my research interests, I'll just search on here what I'm interested in. And I'll still remember I searched leucine muscle protein synthesis. And the second paper that came up was from a guy named Don Lehman at the University of Illinois. And I just sent him an email and I was like, hey, I really like your research. I'm interested in going to grad school. Are you taking grad students? He said, yep, come on up and interview. And again, just like zig when you could have zagged. He was, so that's where I ended up going.

And Dr. Lehman was a fantastic advisor. Champagne? And champagne. Oh, that's awesome. Okay. Yep. So he was a fantastic advisor. So I was there for six years.

I continued to write. And also when I got there, because of my articles, I had already been helping people online with nutrition for a long time. And this is, so again, nowadays, everybody on Instagram is an online coach, right? Like everybody. Back then, people didn't believe you could do this stuff online. Everybody was like, well, they just went to their personal trainer. So I had people I was already doing diets for, but then when I got to grad school, I was like, well, you know what? I probably should get paid for this. So I took my first client online. I think I charged $10 a week and just started working with people, mostly for bodybuilding shows. Mostly people were

competitors. And over the course of the six years I was in grad school, that went from just something where I'm like, Hey, I've got some gas money to by the time I finished, I was making a full-time living and had not only that established, like a coaching tree where like probably two dozen people I had coached had begun and gone on to become successful coaches. So then, uh, at the end that time won my pro card in bodybuilding and natural bodybuilding. And then,

uh, did a pro show after I graduated my PhD and won my first pro show as well. And then after that series, I kept growing my business in terms of coaching. And then I got into powerlifting, right? But it was just like, powerlifting was just this thing where I'm like, oh, I'm just going to do this in the off season just to, you know, just for funsies and whatever. And I did a meet in Florida or South Florida. It was my first USAPL powerlifting meet. USAPL is the IPF affiliate and IPF is the biggest powerlifting organization. They are Olympic recognized. They're in the world games. Like it's a very, very, like they're very buttoned up. This is a very well-oiled machine. And I did the meet, didn't really think much of it. I won and I qualified for nationals.

And a week later, I got an email from a guy named Matt Gary. Now, Matt Gary was the head US coach at the time and has forgotten more about powerlifting than pretty much anybody else in the world. And Matt sent me this big, long email about, okay, last year with your total, you would have won nationals and you would have been seventh in the world. You need to do nationals. I was like, okay, I guess I'll do nationals. So I went into nationals, like nobody in the powerlifting community really knew me that much because I was just this bodybuilder kind of doing it for funsies. And then I go in and win nationals in the 93 kilo class in a class of, I think we had like a hundred guys in my class, something like that. And, uh, so after the meet, Matt Gary comes right up to me. He's like, so are you going to

worlds? And I'm like, again, I don't know anything. I'm like, where's worlds? He's like, Finland. I looked at my coach, Ben. I'm like, we to go to worlds? Ben's like, let's go to worlds. So long story short, um, we had a really good run in powerlifting. So I won that nationals. Then I won the Arnold. Then, um, I went to worlds and again, an email from Matt Gary, uh, was, was, I was telling you about this. Um, so I was nominated seventh which means my total going in ranked me seventh and Matt sent me this big long email of all the people in my weight class all their strengths all their weaknesses broke it all down at the end he says he said I'll never forget this you have the opportunity to get a medal here but you have to be perfect if you miss one lift you're going to be out train like your life depends on it and I was like don't tell me that. Don't tell me that.

I mean, when I say I was in the gym for three, four hours a day, I mean, my total squat volume for a week was probably over 50,000 pounds. I was squatting just insane amounts of weight four times a week. I did whatever it took. And I was chasing this squat record because the squat record at the time was 300 kilos or 661 pounds. And funny enough, hopefully I'm not going too far with this story, but funny enough at the Arnold, our plan was to break it at the Arnold. Hold on. You realize what fucking show you're on, right? So my plan was to break this record at the Arnold because ideally you break it in your home country and you can only break it at a world level meet but the Arnold's a world level meet because it

has world level judges so ideally you break it in your home country because you're not flying overseas there's not a bunch of extra variables whatever so um we get to the meet and I hit my first two lifts and I look at Ben and I tell him uh2.5, which is, I forgot that you can ship a record. So usually you go up in two and a half kilo increments, but if you're going for a world record, you can go up by just a half kilo. So world record's 300. I said 302.5. I get backstage and I'm waiting and I see the attempt number go up and it says 300 to tie. And I look at Ben and I go, I thought we're going to break the record. And once you put in an attempt on squat, you can't change it. So I saw all the color and Ben was a phenomenal coach. He just had a brain cramp at whatever that moment was. And I saw all the color like drain out of his face, right?

And he goes over to the table, but he already knows he can't change it he comes back and he like tries to play it off he's like well we're just going to go for the win you know and i'll still never forget this is the hardest squat i've ever done because that 661 was still heavier than i'd ever squatted and now you don't have the like the anticipation of of like, you can break this record. So I think I was like probably like a seven second concentric on that squat, you know, but I hit it. Um, and obviously it was kind of disappointed, but won the Arnold and that was cool. So then I went to worlds and I'd been dealing with some back issues during that time. I couldn't even really start squat until about six weeks out from worlds, get to worlds.

Um, and I hit my first two attempts. I go backstage for my third, and I look up, and it says 303 kilos. I'm like, Ben, we only need 300.5 to break the record. Like, if I miss this, I won't even get a medal for squat. Like, I'll be off the podium for squat. And he looked at me, and he goes, I know, but you're not going to miss today. That's what's up. And I was like, and I know Ben. He does not ben he does not yeah i'm like all right let's go you know i went out hit it um and then ended up going nine for nine at that meet was the first time i ever went

nine for nine i got a gold medal in the squat silver medal in deadlift um and then got a silver medal overall and uh yeah it's pretty cool experience that's fucking bad and then got a silver medal overall. And yeah, it was a pretty cool experience. That's fucking badass. And then more recently, again, a lot of what I talk about now online, besides science and whatnot, is mindset. Because I think one of the things that lifting taught me that I always tell people, if all you get out of lifting is getting stronger

and more muscular, you totally missed the lessons that lifting was trying to teach you. Because that taught me resiliency. It taught me how to deal with a setback. It taught me how to deal with frustration. It taught me how to be plateaued for years and keep pushing and having faith that if you do the right things, things will work out, right? So after that world championship, I won nationals again. And then I started accumulating injuries. I had to drop out of worlds the next year, doing a hip injury. So during the course of my career, the last seven

years, I've dealt with two disc herniations, my low back, two other discs that were bulged. I've torn a muscle in both hips. I've partially torn my left pectoral and I've dealt with left knee patellar tendonitis. It took me seven years, seven years. And I qualified for, I went to masters nationals, one qualified for IPF masters worlds. So seven years later, I went back to worlds. And last week I won the gold medal for IPF masters. And I, I tell people, I'm like, what a fucking story of fucking resilience yeah right and those and persistence so i tell people resilience is a superpower yeah because i and i might sound arrogant but i think a lot of people would have packed that in and said

you know this i had a good run no that's not arrogant that's fucking fact okay that's the biggest problem with motherfuckers in this world today is that they have zero fucking grit zero resilience and the first sign of major fucking hardship you know there's some people that think problem with motherfuckers in this world today is that they have zero fucking grit, zero resilience. And the first sign of major fucking hardship, you know, there's some people that think they're tough, dude. And they're like, yeah. And bro, it's easy to be, it's easy. And that's not easy. Okay. But a lot of people can become great without facing any major setbacks. And dude it's how you face that major fucking setback that really tells the story you know um everybody's got to play until they get hit that's right bro but like dude you know there's a lot of guys out there and this could be this could apply to anything

it's compliant basketball baseball fucking football any any competitive environment business you could apply it to anything there's a lot of people out there that get pretty fucking good, even great, without having to experience a major setback. And dude, that major setback is the one where you're truly going to find out if you're fucking made for it or you aren't. A a seven year persistent consistent grind not even knowing if you can even get back that's different level of fucking intestinal 42 grit and all the things that we talk about here on the show quite often you know i'm going through a little bit of this as well uh i've destroyed my fucking shoulder last september not last month, but a year ago. A year ago, yeah.

And bro, like the uncertainty, like it wasn't seven years, but it's been 13 months now since the injury. I'm still coming back from it. Nowhere near where, I mean, I'm near where I was, but I mean, I'm talking about functionality. But like,

I cannot explain, unless you've been through it, how mentally taxing the uncertainty is, you know, the uncertainty of, because dude, really, I hadn't felt that level of uncertainty for a long time because the last time I felt it was really like when we were trying to make it in yep or get to a level where we could like you know be a decent business and uh no that's not my point is that's not fucking arrogant it's fucking fact most people will pack it in the first major hit they take even if they become good or great in any area there's very few people that come back from a come back truly come back from a from an acl injury in football or a tommy john in baseball and and people don't appreciate

how hard that is to come back from so like bro like while you're telling that story man it's making me want to go lift i'm like let's go train right now story, man, it's making me want to go fucking lift. I'm like, fuck, let's go fucking train right now. And you know, it's one of those things where, you know, I think I've been blessed to have setbacks early on. So I learned how to deal with it when I was young. Right. So like when I was 20 years old, I herniated two discs in my neck and I lost like 40% of my strength on my left side and you know i had a doctor be like yeah you'll probably never be as strong as you once were six months later i'd come back from that like oh okay if i can get over that you know what else can i get you got that shit in you bro

and you got that fucking you got that same shit i got where like dude if you tell me i'm not doing it yeah i'll do it twice i'll burn the motherfucking world down to prove you fucking wrong yeah like and it it's it's not healthy sometimes but but i mean like you know it gets done it does it's one of those things where so and then like i completely tore my right pectoral um in 2008 came back from that so i like i had these setbacks and like experience with you know overcoming them and whatnot and then even like leg development so when i was coming up i was a cross-country runner in high school i had skinny skinny legs bro i remember i remember we used to make fun of yes i remember being on the forums reading

all of your and then trolling you for having small legs like oh do you even train you got chicken legs except for he's up there pulling twice what they can pull right or pressing twice what they can press like you know how the internet is so i i'll tell this story it's one of my but i remember that yeah because people will be like they'll be like lifting hard for two years i'm like oh you know i just don't have good genetics i'm like you have no fucking idea what you're talking about right like two years is nothing no no disrespect it's more than most people do but it's nothing so i had been lifting for i've got a picture after i've been lifting for four years

hard right going hard and i used to obliterate people who try like you tried to train with me i took it as a personal insult yeah like that was you're gonna walk out of there puking right so hi bro i get offended i get fucking offended that motherfuckers even think that they can compete with me right like i get a like if we're gonna fucking do whatever we're gonna do i am just know this about me i am i might be smiling and i might be happy but i'm offended that you show the fuck like let's be real and i know you were the same fucking way, bro. Yeah. So four years in, I've got this picture of me and my legs are still not impressed.

It's like skinny, right? Doesn't look like I really train legs. I look like a typical beach body guy, right? And I made this, I can still remember making this pack with myself because part of me was like, you know what? This bodybuilding thing, maybe it's just not for me because I got a good upper body, but no lower body. I'm like 10 years. I'm going to give myself 10 years of going hard. And then if it's because I love it, I love bodybuilding, so I don't want to quit. Right. Like I would only be quitting out

of frustration to save my ego. Right. And that's a lot of people, right? You're just trying to protect your ego because so many people are scared of what if i went all in and it didn't work out right here's the rub it's not going to work out if you don't go all in that's the thing dude that's that fucking what you just stated is the entire thought process as to why people do not succeed at anything self-sabotage yes they look at the mountain that must be climbed and they assume that there's some magic to it other than just one step in front of the other. And so they think like, and this is the story, bro. I used to tell myself this fucking story too. So I know it's real.

It's what if I do all this work? What if I go all in yes what if i commit to to building that career or that company or that body or that level of performance and it doesn't work but the thing is bro is that it does work it's very simple and there is no magic to it when you once you've been someone like you or you've you've looked at that mountain you said 10 years that's fine i'll doing it and you look back. You're like, bro, there was no magic to that. It was just showing the fuck up and doing the work.

The magic you're working for. The magic you're looking for is in the work you're attempting to avoid. Yeah. No shit, bro. Fuck, that's gold. And a lot of people, most people. Brad, that should be a fucking shirt for you. I think I saw it from Renaissance Periodization.

I'm just saying. I want to give credit where credit's due. But a lot of people are willing to do the work if they're guaranteed an outcome. They'll work hard as long as they're getting their paycheck. They'll work hard as long as, okay, if I do that, that's the people who are like, what are my genetics like? Because they want to know, oh, you got good genetics. Okay, then I'll do the work.

You have to be willing to do the work with absolutely zero promise of an outcome. You got to be willing to put it in. There's only one guarantee. The guarantee is this. If you don't do it- You won't get it. That's right. So I committed to 10 years and I train like a madman. I used to like, I still to this day, 23 years later, I will get butterflies when I go into squat because it's, my body still remembers skinny leg lane that people used to make fun of. And every time it's like, be just like, yeah, we're going to show them. That's right.

And so I'll never forget, before I was getting ready for my first pro show, I was like two weeks out and I was doing some posing practice with one of the judges from the organization. And I'm like doing some different poses. And I was talking to them and I said, well, you know, I know my legs are a weak point. So I'm trying to, and they stopped me and they're like, your legs aren't a weak point. And I've just remembered thinking like,

then they were like, they're not gonna be the best on stage, but they're, you know, they're good. And I thinking did you see him right yeah right were you looking at the right right right yeah so it's like it's like holy shit that was the 10 years right yeah and also i still i still remember this too i was like you know what i'm gonna squat 500 for reps one day because there might be somebody out there who squats 500 for reps with small legs but i haven't met him yet so that was my goal did that. So then this is one of my favorite stories as well. After Worlds. So backstage, after Worlds, I went and got drug tested.

And then I come back and my coach Ben is sitting down. And the cool story about Ben is he was younger than me. And I actually coached him for bodybuilding originally. That's how we met because he was on the forums too. And then he became a great powerlifting coach later. But he was not somebody who just threw out praise. Like he was very, very targeted with his praise. But I came back out from drug testing and I see him. He's in the corner backstage and he's sitting down like this box and he's crying. He's got his head in his hands.

I'm like, Ben, dude, we did it. And he looks at me and he's like, his head comes up and he's crying. He's got his head in his hands. I'm like, Ben, dude, we did it. And he looks at me and he's like, his head comes up and he goes, how the fuck did you just do that? That's fucking awesome. I'm like, what do you mean, man? That's what we trained for. He's like, no. He's like, you were the guy with skinny legs that everyone made fun of.

And you just went out and set a world record in the biggest powerlifting meet to that point in history. And I'm like, it's the work, man. It's the work. So again, like when I,

that's such a fucking awesome story, dude. It was cool. I mean, I still, I can remember as clear as day. And so this past week, I mean,

again, like this was not a seamless process, like even 10 weeks out from, uh, worlds, like going in, I was nominated second, but I was like nominated about 80 pounds under the guy who was in front of me. And again, this is my goal. Like I wanted to get that gold overall, like that's what I wanted.

And like 10 weeks out, I was feeling good. And then after a session, like, oh man, there's my back tightening up again. And we had to train around it for about four or five weeks. And it wasn't literally till about two weeks out. So I had my first pain-free squat session. And- It might've been a blessing. Maybe. A little more fresh.

Maybe. Yeah. And so anyways, we get to the meet and I'm kind of like, all right. And then can't really go too much into it, but I had a very, very stressful life event happen literally this last week right before the meet. And my best friend, Mike, was with me at the meet and he's like, man, is your head all right? You going to be okay?

And I said, man, I know this would rattle most people, but I'm telling you, I'm about to have the meet of my life. That's fucking right. I'm like, I'm going to show everybody why I'm built different. And so backstage, warming up, getting ready, I'm feeling good. And I looked around and I'm like, man, this is what I missed. I missed this community. I missed the tingles. I always tell people, I used to get those butterflies playing baseball and I would try to calm down, calm down. And I'll never forget a line that changed my life. I was watching The Ultimate Fighter. It was Sarah versus Hughes. And there's

a guy, he's getting ready for a fight and he's getting sick, right? He's vomiting in a bucket, right? And he's saying, man, I can't do this anymore. I can't. I can't do this anymore. You know, I hate this feeling. And Matt Serra looks right at me and goes, what are you talking about, man? That's the feeling of being alive. No shit.

And I was like, like just completely reframed it instantly for me. So like now when I start to get those butterflies, I'm like, hell yeah, let's fucking go. And so, yeah, I went out, I went three for three on squat, hit a 601 pound squat. The, the guy was really, it was neck and neck with was the champ from Mexico. Great guy. Loved him. Just a really awesome dude. Um, he missed two of his squats. And so I felt pretty good going into the bench. I missed the bench. He missed a bench. So going into deadlifts, I was 33 pounds behind. But I felt good about it and ended up going out. I actually won on my second deadlift because we tied at the second deadlift, but I had the lower body weight, which I did on purpose. I made sure I weighed in light. And so actually I told Ben, I'm like,

well, if he misses his third deadlift, I've already won. Let's load up the world record deadlift and take a swing at it. Took a swing at it. I ended up not hitting it, but, uh, you know, got the gold medal. It was pretty cool. Uh, pretty cool experience. So that was just this last week. And, you know, just like, uh, sitting down and then again, a nice, real nice Ben moment.

Ben handled me, um, at the meet flew up and, uh, he put, real nice Ben moment. Ben handled me at the meet, flew up and he put together this real nice post. And he's like, you know, one thing about Lane is he's always been willing to do the work and he trusts the people around him. And you know, when you go to a meet, you're not getting a minus Lane Norton. You're, he is going to bring it every time. Yeah. And, and bro, you've shown that for the fucking last 20 years. I've watched it. Yeah. So again, like I, I don't mean to turn this into a motivational speech, but if I could like impart anybody out there, like if you, like, if you want to, if you decide you're going to quit something, ask yourself first, am I quitting out of frustration

or am I quitting because I'm just not passionate about it anymore? Because if you're not passionate about it anymore, that's okay. That's called going to the next chapter. And maybe that will happen one day with me for lifting. But I knew even in the midst of where I couldn't even put a barbell on my back, I was in so much pain. Like if I quit now, I'm quitting out of frustration. I'm not quitting because I'm not passionate anymore. I'm not going to allow myself to do that because I know I felt like, and I've had people say, well, you're doing this for other people. And I said, no, no, this one was for me because I felt like I had this in me and I wanted to prove it to myself. And I was the only, the old guy's class, but still like, you know, it's IPF worlds.

It's, it's a tough, it's a tough competition. For sure. Well, the master's class is different than it used to be 20 years ago. I mean, like, dude, now you're dealing with a class of athlete. You know, I feel like, and maybe I'm biased because I'm in my forties now, but I'm at my best almost, you know, like I'm, I'm not far off from my absolute best of all time physically. Well, speed deteriorates a lot faster than strength. In fact, the guy who broke my world, my world record squat later, the guy named David Ricks,

who's already in the powerlifting hall of fame. He was 57 years old when he broke my record he squatted 683 pounds yeah it's fucking amazing 205 pounds yeah 57 years old that's fucking so i always so now you know what i tell people is um bro he did that fucking uh um skip la cour lately yeah fuck he's in his 60s bro he looks as good as he did when he was fucking in his 30s. Well, the thing about muscle is once you've built it, it is what's needed to maintain it is far, far, far, far less. Yeah. I mean, there's even research that shows that once you've built a certain amount of muscle, you could get by with one third to one ninth of the volume that it took you to build it and keep it so that makes a lot of sense bro because i can tell you just anecdotally from my experience like my shit's coming back so fucking

fast yeah like it's almost like i'm like i'm almost getting to the point where my body is like it's not i almost i can lay the pictures on each other and it's almost like i didn't get fucking hurt so and there's actually scientific so this. So, and there's actually scientific. So this idea of muscle memory, there's actually scientific evidence for this. Um, it's not completely accurate, but something called myonuclear domain theory. So basically your muscles, you've heard of satellite cells, which can fuse to your muscles. Now, muscle fibers are the only multi-nucleated cell type in the body. And what's interesting is when you lift and like steroids actually work this way too, you get more fusion of these satellite cells. You get more myonuclei. And the idea is the myonuclei control muscle growth for a certain area. So your muscle can

only grow as big as your number of myonuclei you have because of certain, like one myonuclei can only expand the muscle fiber for a certain amount of time. I'm kind of butchering it a little bit, but this is the crux of it. And our best understanding right now is that once the myonuclei fuse, we don't think they unfuse. So if you stop lifting or you have an injury or whatever, where you lose muscle mass, those myonuclei are still there. So that when you come back, that's why when you come back, well, that's why we believe when you come back, it comes back much faster than it took you to build it in the first place.

Because you don't have to fuse the building. It's been crazy. I was talking to one of my- Probably kind of fun, right? Like it's like lubricates all over again. It is cool. It's frustrating because I was at my physical best of all time, and I'm still not there.

And bro, I'm obsessed. I'm an obsessive person in this way, like you are. So it's like now I know where I can be, and I'm not going to be satisfied until I'm past that point. It's just how the fuck I'm wired. But you said something, dude, and I wanted to add on this, which I thought was a really good a good point that we that i don't want people to miss about the puking in the bucket okay most people will do any fucking thing

they can to avoid the the fear to avoid being scared at all and here's the thing that people and you guys need to really understand is that all of the good creative shit, all of your good ideas, all of your, uh, you know, like if you're in business, like your good ideas, your best ideas are going to come when you're fucking terrified because your body goes into hyper solution mode and starts thinking all this crazy shit. And this is why the saying comfort kills, right? Like people who get comfortable that don't allow themselves to feel that fear or that anxiety or that, you know, the fucking, they get too far away from the fire. You know what I'm saying? Bro, they lose. And dude, that, that, uh, that saying of, you know, that, that

Sarah said about, what are you talking about? Like that means you're alive. However, he fucking said it feel to be alive, bro. That's all the good shit comes from those times. If you allow it to, you know what I mean?

But if you avoid it, you can't ever really get anywhere. You can't, you can't fucking win a fight. You can't build a career. You can't build, bro. How you're an entrepreneur.

How many days when you first started out, did you wake up fucking terrified? Every day. It's 100% fear, like all the time. And by the way, not for a week, for years. And people think like, it's interesting in a business context, how people are like, oh man, like this is really hard after like three months. I'm like, I don't want to tell him this, but I want to be like, well, maybe you should consider something else. You know what I'm saying? Like you have to be built or at least become built for it by tolerating it and dealing with it.

You know what I mean? Because like, bro, I used to be the guy who was fucking a little nervous about confrontations or building something or trying something new. And once I figured out that like all the really good creative shit that I've ever thought of, ever implemented or ever created came from necessity out of fear, my life changed. It was a huge point. And so like those butterflies that you're feeling before that thing that everybody tries to avoid or they quit when they feel, dude, it's like you're so close, dude.

You're so close to understanding the fucking magic of the whole thing. You know what I mean? The human body is always going to fight for homeostasis and that goes for like mindset and everything. Right. So one of the things my current coach, Zach Robinson, he always says is adaptation is never comfortable. Right. So if you want to be stronger, if you want to get bigger, you have to induce that through putting yourself through something uncomfortable right lifting weights um and even like the soreness and the you know like the the dinks and the dunks that go along with it but that goes for anything

yeah like if you if you to stay where you are you can be comfortable sort of if you want to grow in some way yeah you have to be but you're not really staying where you are because all the motherfuckers who are uncomfortable are moving forward you're staying where you are which by default means you're moving down the ranks yeah you know and that's that's what people fail to understand another point that's going to get uncomfortable too real fast this is a business thing dude a lot of these guys in business especially over the last 10 or 12 years when things have been really good they don't understand that while the success of business may create from the outside a more comfortable life right you can live you don't have a problem with money really right you you vacations you get a nice place like your

place on the water my place you know what know what I'm saying? Like there's comfort there, right? People see it and they think, oh. Must be nice. Yeah. Must be nice. Motherfucker, you couldn't live for 24 hours of my life. You couldn't fucking do it. Because the discomfort is all the mental anguish that you're not seeing that you're literally incapable of fucking tolerating.

Well, what I tell people is like. And that part never stops. That's what the thing is like and that part never stops that's what the thing is that part never fucking stops i have all these entrepreneurs coming to me all the time they're like bro when's when do you like get to relax and i like laugh at them i'm like i don't know bro but when you figure it out let me fucking know you know because like everybody i know that kicks their feet up and starts living life and doesn't give a fuck, guess what happens? They lose. It might not be today.

It might not be next week. But they eventually lose. And I can't think of an example that hasn't been true in that situation. Yeah. No, I mean, it's very cliche to say that, you know, you got to push yourself outside your comfort zone. But it is the truth. One of my, one of my other favorite sayings is if you try to avoid discomfort, you will actually make yourself more uncomfortable because if you try to like moving, exercising is uncomfortable, but if you don't do it, guess what's going to happen in 30 years, you can be

real uncomfortable. Dude, this is, this is true for people with anxiety. I learned this people with anxiety. The reason that you're a lot of people are so overly anxious is because they're so aware of every little thing that creates any little anxiety that they blow everything up that makes them uncomfortable into this massive ordeal. And they start thinking, fuck, I can't escape the anxiety. It's there all the time. Well, yeah, motherfucker, because that's all the thing you're trying to avoid. And it's a natural circumstance of life. You're far better off building yourself into someone that can effectively absorb the anxiety and continue to move forward and understand that this is just

part of what we do. When we hyper-focus on these little issues, they become massive issues. And avoiding the discomfort, your natural perspective is going to be being aware of everything that causes you discomfort. And then those problems that are trying to tell you something in your life like, oh, I'm uncomfortable because I'm financially strapped right now. Well, the problem doesn't get better by you trying to avoid the problem. Yeah. There's a saying, if you do what is easy, your life will be hard. If you do what is hard, your life will be rewarding.

Yeah. And it's so funny how this dichotomy of life that is whatever you do in the short term, the opposite in the long term will happen. That's right. If you do really hard things in the short term, your life will be easier. If you do really hard things in the short term, your life will be easier. If you do really easy things in the short term, your life is going to be way harder. It's biblical. There's a bit, there's Bible verses that actually say this,

like that's in the Bible. Like it talks about that when you practice discipline, you, you, I don't remember the exact word. I fucking posted it just yesterday, dude. It was, hold on. It might still be up. Look, Hebrews don't remember the exact word. I fucking posted it just yesterday, dude. It was, hold on.

It might still be up. Uh, look, Hebrews, Hebrews 12 right here. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful later on. However, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. It's in the Bible, dude. Yep. No, I mean, I think,

you know, people could learn so much from just like the idea of delayed gratification. Yeah. You know? Um, and here's the thing too. Like if you got awesome stuff easy, it wouldn't be awesome anymore.

No. Like look at what happens to people who win the lottery. Yeah. 80% of them within like, I think it's like 80% within five years are broken. Yeah. Yeah. And their lives are a disaster. Right.

Usually worse than how it was before. Because you haven't, even though like, yes, they did earn it technically because they won it. You didn't earn it through a long period of time of changing your habits and like changing your behaviors. Yeah. Right. Exactly.

It's like you have to build that stuff along the way. And it's like, if you give, when a kid turns 16, if you give them a car, trash it. Right. Because they don't value it.

Cause they got it for free. That's one of the things I tell people like in my seminars and stuff, I'm like, honestly, I get up here and do this stuff for free. Like if I could, if I could feed my family, no joke.

Um, I would do a lot of this stuff for free because I fucking love it. Yeah, but bro, here's the thing. The reason you get paid for it is because you did it for free for fucking 15 years. That's also true. Yes. And I'll tell people,

back when I was coaching more, they look at my prices and like, oh man, that's really expensive. I'm like, well, you're paying for Coca-Cola right now. You should have gotten me back when I was the Kmart brand. You know what I mean? Like now you're paying, but that's because you're paying for the- You're Dr. Pepper.

They should have got you when you were Dr. Thunder. Yeah. You're paying for the 10 years of work you didn't see. That's what you're paying for, right? Lane ain't no fucking Dr. Thunder anymore. That's not an ad, by way yeah no there's no ads on the show unless what you got well if i were going to do an ad on the show yeah it would definitely be for that uh that amazing looking energy drink that lane's sipping on right there yeah it's uh it's from this company called first form energy i don't know if you ever heard of it, but if they wanted to pay me to advertise,

I'd probably do it. But we don't run ads. So that's the way it goes. No, I think that, you know, I put this up the other day. I said, you know, if you can just ingrain this idea into your soul, right, like this,

you just tell yourself, come what may, no matter the obstacle, no matter the setback, no come what may, no matter the obstacle, no matter the setback, no matter the enemy, no matter the tears, no matter the frustration, no matter the failure.

If you don't quit, you're never out of the fight. That's right. And so, I mean, I can't tell you, bro, that's a true warrior mindset.

I can't tell you. And the other thing is too, is if you have setbacks and stuff and you've come all the way from the bottom like literally could like again like what i was passionate about powerlifting i couldn't put a barbell on my back for almost a year because i was in so much pain somebody's come all the way back from that or watch out yeah because you cannot break them mentally that's you know what i mean like that's right you hear about these stories of people who go to the bottom and come back like that's a very dangerous person yes because they're not

already been to the bottom they're not afraid they've already been to the bottom dude they're not afraid like bro people people are like i get this all the time they're like aren't you afraid of losing this or that or this fuck no motherfucker like i lived in the back of a store in a fucking mattress from salvation army had a motherfucking piss stain on it and with another dude and i'm not gay all right you're probably perfectly happy yeah you know what looking back it was actually like at the time it was like holy shit this is fucking hard looking back it was some of the most fun times i ever had but you know you don't realize that at the time right well that's the thing is like i'll tell you this i wouldn't want to go back right but if i had to i'm not scared to yeah and that because i know what can be done and dude had i known then what i know now that journey wouldn't be 20 fucking

three years it would be two yep and i think but that's what that's why they call wisdom yeah right and i think one of the things i really would impart to people is I get asked a lot, man, how do you stay so motivated? I'm like, my secret is I'm not. I don't worry about motivation. Motivation is feelings. So I operate based on data. So when it comes to like, let's say, for example, lifting, there are plenty of days where I

go to the gym. I'm like, I don't really feel like being here, but I know overall I love lifting. There are plenty of days where I go to the gym. I'm like, I don't really feel like being here, but I know overall I love lifting. So it doesn't bother me that I don't feel like it today because all that matters is what is my goal? What does it require to get there? That's it. And then I just execute on that. Yes. And feelings don't have to enter the equation, right? Now, some days I am motivated and I'll like, that's like adding nitrous, right? Like motivation's like nitrous, right? Discipl disciplines the gas tank because nitrous will take you really fast really quick but it runs out real quick right that's motivation discipline is what will get you there yeah right because you operate based on that every single day and so i'll tell people

stop waiting to be motivated. Just do. Just do. There's no fucking feelings in discipline, dude. There's no fucking feelings in it. It is or it isn't. It's binary in nature. And the other thing is people get, like there's all these, I always chuckle, people like,

how can I build my confidence up? I'm like, get in the arena. Now, I'm not necessarily talking about competing. I'm just saying, go do stuff because you can read all the books about confidence. If you have never done anything, why would you be confident? Confidence is only going to come through experience. And a lot of confidence comes from, okay, I did something, but then I had this setback and then I got through it. I overcame it. And that's what builds confidence.

And you don't, like nobody starts out with the confidence. Like, you know, if you put me at age 18 in the same situation of where I had the seven years to come back, I wouldn't have been able to do it because my mind could not, I could not wrap my mind around that. Right. But I had that exposure over time because I was in the arena. I was writing and putting content out there and getting criticized and I was lifting weights and I was competing and I was doing a PhD. So I was, you know, I call that stuff just being in the arena because I'm doing hard stuff. And you learn so much throughout that process. And so it's like this accumulation effect where it just, it hardens you a little more and a little more. And

the more hard stuff you do and the more setbacks you get through, the more hard stuff you can get through. And it just builds and builds and builds. So by the time it got to be where I'm going through all these injuries and stuff, and it's years after years after setback, after setback, after setback. And people are asking me like, why do you keep coming back? I'm like, cause I still believe I can do this, you know? And, um, you know, so just imagine anybody out there, if you had something you wanted to do, if you just committed to yourself that I am going to go hard for 10 years and I'm not going to quit no matter what happens. If I, if I'm not dead, I'm not quitting.

And then maybe at 10 years, maybe you don't get your goal, but I promise you, you will be a different human being. Bro, that happened to me. You'll be a different human being and you'll be more successful than you would have been. That happened to me, bro. The exact same thing you were describing, what you're describing is exactly how it played out for me. My first three years in business, we fucking sold nothing. I didn't get paid shit. We had fucking three, four, five days in a row. Sometimes we didn't even see a customer. The next seven years... Now remember, we started in 1999. So there is no social media. You're sitting here talking and I'm thinking, yeah, the big objection to most of

these people who are afraid to get in the arena is they're afraid of the comments on the social media it's like bro you don't know how lucky you are to have that yes because back when it didn't exist before nobody even knew i existed on the fucking planet i had to go door to fucking door to fucking door for 10 fucking years okay so you are blessed for the world to be able to see your face and hear your voice in a way that is can be communicated if there's true value there in my opinion it's this is the best time in history to be an entrepreneur no question but people think it's the hardest it's not the fucking hardest dude having some people say some fucked up shit about you is not the hard shit.

You need zero capital to be an entrepreneur right now. To start. Exactly, bro. Exactly. You did social before social was fucking social because you were doing it inside the forums. And then that way, when social clicked over, you had a presence. And you built upon that by adding value over value over value for literally 20 fucking years, dude.

And people don't see that. They don't understand that. But you're describing when you said the 10-year thing, bro, that's exactly how it happened to me. I fucking went 10 years, okay, made $58,000 my first 10 years combined. Wow. Okay. dollars my first 10 years combined wow okay at 10 years i had a situation where we were going to close the business chris and i we weren't rich you know when we started this we're like we want

to be fucking ballers we're gonna fucking do all this cool shit we're gonna be on yachts with models and all this fucking shit right and 10 years bro we're fucking broke right? We're 10 fucking years in But we were close We were fucking close And so even if you commit to that 10 years and you get close to like shit starting to work You're gonna go that extra one year or that extra one fucking step because dude, and here's the beauty. You guys are sitting here thinking we're fucking 10 years is a long time. Yes. But also Lane and I come from a time pre the tools that you have available now. So that 10 years for us could be three years for you.

And so you guys are so set up to win and you just lack the perspective of how blessed you are to have what you have, the tools you have to win. But bro, you're a thousand percent right. Because that's the life I've lived. It was 10 years. And then it was like, we chose, we had the situation happen where we were going to close the business. We had a conversation about what we liked about the business because our options were like not good. Otherwise, right. It was like, uh, I was gonna, I was going to be cleaning carpets in a Sears franchise. No bullshit. I was, I was a fucking inch away. It's a branch of your life, bro, I was an inch away from being a, no offense to anybody who cleans carpets, but it's quite the fucking drastic difference from where I am today.

Okay. I would be cleaning carpets right fucking now. Understand that. Okay. Had I not decided that I wanted to stick it out for another fucking year. Okay. Now that another year, we made a key decision in our thought process. And it has to do with true entrepreneur skills,

which is a practical skill. It had to do with intent. So for the first 10 years, we were the motherfuckers that you call out. Okay. We were the shit bag fucking supplement store salesman. I'm not saying we were the worst ever, but like we would do think it wasn't, we weren't thinking, I don't think we were ever like immoral, but we were not thinking about the customer at all. We were thinking about

us. How much could we sell this person who was wanting to make this change today and walk out the door with that sale today. Right? Transactional thinking that most people fucking operate on, which is a huge mistake. We changed our intent and our intent went from what can we fucking make on this transaction to let's work to create the one thing that we both said we loved about our company. And it was this every once in a while, even though we fucked everything up, there would be someone who came into our retail store, who talked to us for 30, 40 minutes about the basics of how to fucking get in shape.

And they would come back and it would be six, seven months later. And they were down like a hundred fucking pounds, bro. And they come in and of course, you know, I don't recognize them. They're down a hundred pounds. They got fucking tears in their eyes and they come up and they're like, you have no idea how much you guys helped me. I just came in here to say, thank you. You know, I'll never go anywhere. And bro, we both agreed that that was the best part of our business we loved it like we loved it personally even though like it wasn't you know we we basically accepted the fact that we weren't going to be rich okay and we're like fuck it i'd rather try to produce that than go clean carpets for for the next fucking rest of my life and we did that and

we made a pivot and we And we followed through on it. And bro, out of that, First Form was born. Fucking the next five years in our retail company, we grew 100% every single year. We have the most profitable retail model right now outside, per square foot, outside of Apple stores. Because you went from trying to make money to trying to help to solving problems.

That's right. People have such a hard time grasping that bro. And I tell you guys listening, if you would just build your shit around producing results instead of selling shit, you would fucking dominate. And it doesn't matter if you sell fucking supplements or you sell ice cream, right? Ice cream doesn't make people, quote unquote, more fit or healthy. It's not just exclusive to getting better, but the experience that people are looking for with your ice cream, what they're looking for, give that to them the best way that you can.

If they're trying to have a nostalgic moment, create it. You see what I'm saying? Of course. So whatever it is your business does, figure out what the fuck it actually does for people and operate and build your company around that intent point and you will fucking win. Because bro, that's the only secret to anything I do. And honestly, bro, it's your secret too. You would do this shit for fucking free because I know you and I've watched you. Because I've done it. That's right. And anyway, I'm getting fucking hyped up.

But like, it's real shit. I was remembering an image that I've seen many times. And it's two guys. And they're both digging for gold. And it shows you where the gold is buried. Yeah, yeah. Right? Now, they can shows you where the gold is buried yeah yeah right now they can't see where the gold is buried right like they don't know how far it is so one guy quits the other guy keeps digging and eventually gets to it and the guy who quit quit when he was this close right yeah so you might again like where i've been most frustrated in my powerlifting career,

and again, I keep going back to that because it's the most recent thing. I was this close. I just felt like, man, I'm so frustrated. If I just, you know, again, it would be me protecting my ego. It would be like, okay, at least I wouldn't have to deal with this frustration, right? But then I'm going to deal with the pain of what would have happened if I would have done it, if I would have went all. If I went all in. Let me ask you something real, dude.

Like real talk. Did you ever decide to quit? And then for like a minute? Nope. All right. Well, I have. Okay. I'll be real.

There's been a couple times. I've had to enter my mind. No, no, no. I've had to enter my mind. So there's been a couple times, real talk, where like I've been like, fuck, I'm fucking done. And I meant it, dude. I meant it. i meant it i'm like we're felt we're doing this we're doing this we're doing this i'm gonna go do that and i

fucking start googling and shit how i'm gonna do i'm like really doing it bro i'm quitting like i'm doing something else andy's gonna go clean fucking carpets right like and and, after like an hour or two hours, I get this fucking feeling and I'm like, I can't fucking quit. And bro, I have no, I cannot quit. Like, it's just not, I can't do it. And I know you're wired up the same way. I just didn't know if actually ever got to the point where you were like, all right, fuck it, I'm done.

And then like came back. But for me, there was, there's been a, there's been a five or six times over my life where there was like real decision made that I then went back and redid the decision because I just fucking couldn't do it. I mean, I've definitely had those thoughts, you know, like, again, like my PhD is one of the hardest things I ever did. I haven't shared the story many times, but after two years of doing my PhD, I had no data. Most of my experiments weren't working at all.

And I actually got kind of gun shy and I really kind of just stopped doing the work. And again, I just credit having an amazing advisor who, you know, I've always reacted really well to people who were firm, but fair. You know what I mean? And he called me into his office and he said, you know, close the door. And I sat down.

He never raised his voice to me, never got upset. And he just looked at me and said, listen, you are at the best university to do the research that you want to do with protein metabolism, which I was. Like, Lehman is a legend in protein metabolism. He's like, there's a lot of people who would like to be in your position. So if you're not going to give this everything you have, then it's time to step aside and let one of them have it. And if you don't start producing, we're going to put you on probation.

And he's like, maybe a PhD is not for you and that's okay. We can move it to a master's, we can do whatever. And I just remembered thinking, man, I know I have this in me. Fuck yeah. I know I have this in me. And I just looked at him, I said, you're right and I'm going to fix it.

And I swear, swear to to God the way I got through my PhD was I had a wipe off board right next to my desk and every day I went in I wrote just three things I needed to get done and whether they took me two hours or 20 hours I had to get him done and I just I said to myself like I'm in the tunnel I can't see light on either side you know what I mean and I'm like all right I'm just gonna I'm just going to write down three things every day and I'm going to do those things and I'm going to make sure they get done. And that's how I got through my PhD was just doing it three things at a time. Right. That's it. And, um, you know, it's so funny.

Again, I was right at the edge because the really hard part was I was actually starting to make good money with my coaching. And it was like, you know, I don't need this aggravation, you know? But then at the back of my mind, it's also like, uh, if you, if you left and you were like, oh, I'm doing well coaching this and that it would just eat at you for the rest of your life, you know? And so, um, you and I are wired very similar. Well, I think- Like I'm sitting here fucking listening and I'm like, yep, yep, yep, yep. Well, I think- And that's not often it's like that. For sure.

So maybe we got a new bromance here. Well, we're both from Midwest. We're both handsome as fuck. Also true. Yeah. And I think how it started out probably wasn't the healthiest thing in terms of like it started out for me just to prove people wrong because I got told by all my peers growing up you're worthless nobody'll ever care about you you know this and that because I was just different

like I had ADHD I wore glasses I was goofy you know but it was just like it started out as this thing we're like I'm gonna prove all of you wrong, you know? Yeah. But I'm not upset about that because. There's nothing wrong with that. That mindset got me into the habits that kept me going so that once that anger had dissipated from my childhood, it was like, okay, I've built this good work ethic. You know, I've built this good work ethic. I'll never forget, I had this little electronic planner when I was 15, and we're talking like a 32-bit sort of thing. And it said on, I had my home screen,

that when I'd open up my planner, it would say, don't you have work to do? This is a 15-year-old kid. That's not a normal thing, right? And actually, I want to tell a story because I think when you're a kid, you don't, you don't necessarily understand the idea that you can get better at something. Like you go out and you play a sport and there's people who are better

than you. There's people who are worse than you. You accept that as that's what it is. Like, that's what it is. Right. That person is just better than me at that. And so I,

I'll never forget this. I was, um, we called it minor league baseball, which was basically like with a pitching machine, right? It's before little league. And they used to stick me in the outfield because I'd get distracted easy and all that kind of stuff.

My mom, I came in from practice one day and my mom looked at me and she was like, listen, honey, we want you to have fun playing baseball, but we want you to work at it because we are spending, you know, $100 for you to be in this league and it's a lot of money for us. And she's like, and if you don't like it, we'll put you in something different. And I remember thinking, well, I don't want to stop playing baseball. I like baseball.

So I started just working a little bit harder when it was time for drills and all that kind of stuff. And at the end of the year, our team, we were kind of like the, what is it? Bad news bears? Yes, yeah. So we're like the misfit team, right? We actually ended up in third place in the league,

which we were like, I think most people thought we'd finished dead last. And our coach got us like extra trophies. So he got like most valuable player, you know, best fielder, best hitter. And when it came time to get most improved player, he called my name. I was eight years old at the time,

but I'll still never forget this. That was when it clicked for me that, wow, you can work at something and get better. And, uh, work ethic is the great equalizer. Yeah.

Yeah. Yes. If you have somebody who's genetically gifted and they work really hard, if you're work really hard, but you're not genetically gifted, you're not going to beat them. That's right. But if you're not genetically gifted and you work really hard, you get damn far compared to people who just get by on genetics alone. No, you could be great. You can still be great. You shock yourself. And here's the other thing. You don't know what your genetic, all you kids out there who lifted for six months, like, Oh, I just don't have good genetics.

You have no idea what your genetics are. Go hard for 10 years and then talk to me about it. Nor do you know your potential. Like dude, take it away from just physical genetics. You do not understand because these little, these little Y's or T's that we want to call them where we can go one way or the other in life, they happen over and over again. Yep. And the bigger and stronger and better equipped you are mentally, the better the decisions that you get to pick from, you know, and that's, that's something that people just don't understand is like, if you continue to move and you continue to work and you continue, you're going to gain skills because you're going to get punched in the fucking face, bro. And guess what happens when you get punched in the face and you see the same punch again,

you move. Yep. And through this skillset over time, you create momentum and then better opportunities come and you're able to leverage those. And so like, for those of you, my point is, is for those of you guys at the beginning and you're looking at whatever it is, whether it's powerlifting or whether it's business or whether it's fucking whatever, it doesn't matter. You have no fucking idea who the fuck you are. Like you might be legitimately the greatest ever. Like how many greatest evers never even became because they were afraid to take the first two or three steps or the first 10 year

commitment to that craft, right? Steve Jobs said, you cannot connect the dots looking forward. You can only connect the dots looking backwards. So you have to trust the dots are going to connect in your future. Yeah. And so again, it's like that, like I'm not talking about religion, but just having faith that if you do the things that you need to do,

and we know what the principles are to be successful. Like these are not a secret, right? No, people look for a secret to avoid the secret. to be successful. These are not a secret, right? No, people look for a secret to avoid the work. Yeah. If you think it's a secret, give me 10 bucks, I'll tell you. Yeah. Venmo. Exactly. And I think, unfortunately, we live in an amazing time. I can pull this thing up and I can have any piece of information I want in seconds.

But to build something, to go through something, the only way to go through something is to go through it. I keep coming back to that quote, the magic you are looking for is in the work you're attempting to avoid. I see so many people who just have this

paralysis by analysis and it's almost like provides an excuse of, well, if I just, if I just, I've got to make sure everything's lined up just right. Right. Like once this is done, once that it's never going to be right. No, it's never going to be right. And then what happens after that, what happens after that, after they wait their entire fucking however long they're willing to wait right i can still have the dream and waiting for the right time because in right time never fucking comes it just doesn't you have to learn to operate when conditions are fucked up or you can't do shit that's the truth but what

happens after they wait enough time the conditions never get right, they give the dream up. Yep. Okay. And then when they give the dream up, they go back to living however they were living before. They don't talk about their dream or their ambition. And then what they do is they start villainizing people that are ahead of them or have achieved

things under the guise of humility because they think it's morally superior to actual success. And that's where you get all these falsely humbled motherfuckers that don't even know the true humility. Like, bro, you have to be fucking good at something. Like, you have to be great at something and have achieved shit to be humble about it. You don't, that's not, that's an excuse. And everybody that knows fucking anything, living a small life, that's meekness. That's smallness. That's a choice. Simple is okay. But when it's a choice to be simple, not when you live the simple life because it's all you can afford and you actually used to have big dreams, but you gave up on them and now you

hide behind humility. You settled. Like, bro, that's a bullshit way of thinking. And a lot of society thinks that way. Those who have abandoned their dreams will attempt to discourage you from pursuing yours. Fucking facts. That's, you know, one of the things I'll say, and I think I made this quote up, is nobody will remember the names of the critics, the liars, the haters. So make sure they remember yours. Yeah. And, you know, I just, I'll'll tell people you talked about like the mean comments when i see mean comments i'm like oh yeah oh man see

i'm motivated i'm i'm jacked up enough on my own you're gonna give me some extra yeah why why would you do that dude that's how that's not a good idea for you because there's been a lot i was you. It's going to end badly. I was telling you this earlier, but a lot of people come along and said they were going to take me down over the years. A lot of motherfuckers with L's in their column. I just say, come get your L.

It's hard to beat someone, bro, who can't quit, who is willing to do the work, and who absorbs negativity and understands how to pivot it into productive action. When negativity comes to me, bro, I don't respond to it. I fucking absorb it. And then I get fucking focused and I execute and it serves up a shit sandwich of of reality that is a thousand million times the size of me responding back to someone's bullshit you know what i'm saying plus it's bad karma bro i'm not i'm a karma guy like i don't put out negativity bro i try to i i'll take it in i'll

use it but i try not to put it out you know what i'm saying no and i think like it it i do understand it is scary to put yourself out there because you know nobody likes criticism no matter how much anybody says nobody likes it i don't like it um well it depends on how you look at it yeah if you see it bro there's always a lesson to learn because in every hater comment, well, not everyone. Sometimes people just lie.

It's complete bullshit. Sometimes people do just lie, but like when they say we're not handsome. Yeah. Come on. Obvious lie. That's, that's like denying gravity.

Let's be fucking real. Okay. You can argue about it all you want, but you go step off that building. It's going to teach you a fucking lesson. Same exact same thing. Parallel science. Dr.

Lane Norton confirms. Okay. The right facts. So, um, when we think about fuck, what was I talking about? I lost my train of thought.

Uh, hater comments. Oh yeah. But there's always a little lesson in there, right? Are really similar. Cause I do that shit too. Yeah.

There's always a little bit of a lesson. Like, you know, even if what they're saying isn't true, you at least have the opportunity to check yourself and say, well, fuck, is that true? Right. And there's an, there's an opportunity to self audit. So like, I think one of the biggest keys that people miss is that in the criticism, there's

always opportunity. Yeah. There's opportunity to improve if nothing else. And that's why when people come at me and they say the things, whatever they say about me, I don't mind it because I'm like, okay, well, are those things true? Okay. Those are not true. That might be a little true. I can fix that. You get what I'm saying? And there's opportunity to move forward. And it's taken me a long time to get to that point because i used to let it get me really fucking upset um i think the other thing to remember too is when it comes to social media and i think james smith is the one who said this

originally but like the comments are the only place somebody can complain yeah right so you're going to disproportionate amount of complaints so like if you're getting mostly positive comments and this is human nature and i'm guilty of this you get getting mostly positive comments, and this is human nature, and I'm guilty of this, you get a hundred positive comments and it's that one that's negative that you end up focusing on. But I mean, I think it was Aristotle said, or maybe it was Socrates. I could be wrong of either one, but it was in order to avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, nothing be nothing that's right so whenever you put yourself out there yeah i mean it's gonna happen but what's like what's

your alternative right so i don't like to look at it like other people look at it like right like like when i watch your shit right there's always some fucking uh counter counter arguments to say say politely right right sometimes they're assholes sometimes they're really big assholes but you know what bro i i like i look at it like this i'm like well you know fuck that guy like as somebody who understands your your and i think i think if you look at look at your own shit like you're like people who love you and appreciate your shit look at you and you just kind of like yeah whatever dude and keep moving you know i think that's a more healthy way to look at it because we do have the um tendency to focus on the fucking that one comment or that one really

dark remark or whatever but if you But if we're really honest with ourselves, the ones that bother us the most, the reason they bother us is because there's some truth to it. Yep. You know what I'm saying? That's one thing I've had to learn over the years is like, I can decide what bothers me, right? Like I have the ability.

There's my friend, John Deloney. He has a really great podcast on mental health. But he said, you know, there's only a few people in my life who I allow to upset me. My wife can upset me. My kids can upset me. Some random person on the internet,

they don't get that power over me. No, bro. And if you think about it like this, this is how I think about it. Like, look man, you ever been in like a gas station, bro.

And you like walk in to pay for your gas and there's somebody like standing in front of you and you're looking at them and you know, they fucking, their, their fucking shoes are turned in and they're like, they look like they fucking haven't showered in a fucking month. And you're wondering like, how the fuck does this person operate in reality those are usually the exact same people that you're getting in arguments with on the fucking

internet or it's bots yeah russia and china yeah you know what i'm saying like so let's let's be real about like the people who behave that way in general. A normal human that you would interact with isn't a hateful, spiteful douchebag. Well, and usually, again, it's been very, very rare that I've come across people who have had success in an element of their lives who behave that way, right? Because I'll never forget, I had this, um, I had a argument online with somebody probably 10, 12 years ago. And I, and they were like, well, I'm going to become, you know, they were like criticizing me as a bodybuilder. I'm going to become a bodybuilder and I'm going to, you know, beat you on stage and this and that. I said, you know what'll happen if you actually are able to

achieve that, my guess is your attitude will have had to have changed during that process and you won't feel this way anymore. And no kidding, 10 years later, that guy messaged me because I could see the original messages, messaged me and said, hey man, I just want to apologize to you because I did end up winning my pro card. But now I've seen how much work went into this and I have so much respect for you. That is badass. And that's like, same thing.

I think that's why the- Well, those are the people I have the most respect for. Oh, yeah. Is people who can own their fucking mistake, right? Yeah. Well, honestly, when people say nasty stuff to me now over like DM or whatnot, usually if I respond at all, what I'll say is,

Hey, I'm sorry you're having a rough time and hope things get better for you. Yeah. Because like, honest to God, the only time I've ever, and what happens when you say, dude,

I do the same. And 50% of the fucking time they'll write back two or three days later and be like, bro. And they'll tell you what the fuck was going on. And it was bad. It's usually bad. Yep.

Cause I think about like, when, when have i ever done stuff like that on a rare occasion and it's only been when one i've been feeling really crap about myself and my life's been really really stressful yeah right so it's like you know i it's it's like uh i kind of call it like de-escalation right like right now we're we're seeing superpowers escalate stuff. And it's like, you know, it only takes one person to just back off just a little bit

for things to start improving. Because what you do when you do something like that, you just completely disarm the person, right? Well, also you're stopping the karma, right? Just because someone says some fucked up shit to you and you go back and fucking wreck them worse, you're still creating karma for yourself. So like, dude, when you have good intent for even the people that come at you, I look at it as like, that's just an investment in my wellbeing. It'll come back.

No, for sure. And I think that's what, like, I used to have much more vitriol in my videos for people. And I think, you know know thankfully to people around me who kind of like said hey man you know like what you're doing has good intentions but you could probably go about it a little bit more positively so now i say the vitriol for just the worst offenders of things but no i i've seen that yeah yeah i mean you used to be the dude that would fucking wreck people yeah and like now it's not even like i could i sense it to be honest dude i think the content there's a lot more to learn from your content now than there was then because instead of like just fucking destroying these persons these people personally you know you've realized that the better approach it seems to from the outside

at least for my take is to to highlight the lesson that can be learned. Yeah. And I think that's, bro, to me, that's when I was like, fuck yeah, bro. I really thought, I think your content got tremendously better when you started to focus on that. It was much, because every time I'm watching, I'm like, okay, yeah, this guy fucked up. That was fucking shitty. You know what? We shouldn't do that let's avoid that you know there's there's good lessons there instead of making it just like a personal thing yeah and

i think like you know some motherfuckers do deserve it yeah i mean like i said like i'll have a few people who i'm like okay you've consistently shown over the years that you're not going to change and you keep doing the same stuff over and over. And so, you know, but I think it's one of those things where sometimes you are the fucking karma. Well, and I tell people, I'm like some people, and I get this argument because I used to do the same thing. I used to say, you know what? I'm just going to, I'm just going to put out my content. I'm not going to worry about other people. You know, if people say BS, you just going to put out my content. I'm not going to worry about other people. If people say BS, it is what it is and I'm going to let them, they'll get washed out of the industry. And then you realize that there's people always coming into the

industry. And so they say a sucker's born every minute. And I feel for those people because when you're dealing with health and people's wellness like there's a lot of people who are really desperate out there and will believe some of this stuff and at best it's going to set them back in their journey because they're wasting time and money and energy on this stuff and at worst it can actually harm people and in some cases like kill people yeah when you take away fucking everything from someone because your intent on canceling their fucking lives bro listen every motherfucker out here in the world has made some fucking mistakes you know just because there's a lesson to be learned doesn't mean that we need to remove people's fucking entire lives from them and

you know people don't think of the consequences of that bro oh and i'm not like what if someone what if someone you know like these people that truly get their fucking jobs taken away and shit for stating an opinion you know like this the culture is crazy when it comes to this shit yeah and it's interesting because i've had like some people say like for example um you know i've i've really gone after paul solidino before one of the carnivore advocates and he got uh deplatformed and now he's he's created another account he's back people like oh you must be happy about this and i'm like not really um because yeah they they got you know the right guy this time,

but what happens next time if I say something? Dude, you have to have open speech. You got to be, and the part of me, I would consider myself a fiscal conservative, social liberal, which I don't feel like I'm going to be that far off of most people here. No, I think that's called, we call that these days common sense. That's what I thought growing feel like I'm going to be that far off of most people here. No, I think that's, I think that's called, we call that these days, common sense.

That's what I thought growing up. I know, you know, my parents are like, you just don't, don't, if other people, if they're not doing something that harms you, you stay out of their business.

Yeah. You know? And the problem is that those of us that think that way now, those people are taking advantage of that mentality. Yeah. You know, and the, I think I just want to be left alone.

I want to talk about this shit. And I think the, the problem with the idea of we're going to cancel you're going to take away your ability to earn a living is eventually it will come for you that's right because you can't be you can't be self-righteous enough you got to be really careful weaponizing self-righteousness because we are all humans and i'll tell people listen as somebody who's made mistakes made really bad decisions before in my life yeah um you know like even i don't even mind talking about it because it's real like i've i've only ever you know been with two women in my entire life and And one of them was an affair. And it's one of the most shameful things I've ever had in my life. This is my first marriage.

And people came for me, right? But even like 10 years earlier, I had been so self-righteous. I'll never forget this. I put out a tweet where I said, I would never do business with somebody who cheats on their spouse because, you know, if that person can't trust you, why would I trust you?

And it's like karma, right? It's like, you know, I just, I was too young and dumb. Life hadn't punched me in the face enough. You know what I mean? And you get older and you realize every human makes mistakes. Now, what you look for is patterns of behavior that is that is repeated mistakes over and over and over yeah yeah those are choices

right right so like again as and like that whole thing like just shattered me because i had this idea of who i was and then my actions were not in alignment with who I thought I was. And so it took me a long time to like forgive myself for that and get through it. Um, but as weird as it sounds, I'm in some ways grateful it happened because like I realized, wow. Okay. Good people can do bad things. And, um, now it's like, I'll never forget.

Um, I was watching game of Thrones and I don't know if you, if you watched it or if you're a fan, but it's a good show. There's this guy named Jamie Lannister and he starts out in the show. You're like, wow, this guy is the biggest piece of shit in the world.

And over time you actually become somewhat sympathetic to him because he starts to change. He starts to change. And he's reading this book. He was in the Kingsguard, which he was the guard of the king, and he ended up actually killing the king. And it's one of the reasons he's infamous. And he's reading his, his entry in this King's guard book. And it basically says, yeah, he was a guard and he killed the King. And then there's a big space and I'll never forget what he said. And he said, there's still space in my pages. Like basically like I can still make a difference, you know?

And that's kind of how I viewed it. It's like, all right, I can either use this as like, this is the end or i can use this as impetus to do it differently and understand you know why i made these poor decisions and how i can be better in the future you know and that that's all we can do as humans dude yeah that's all we can do so i try to get real i'm i really try to be very careful before i judge people you know what i mean because it's like yeah yeah somebody does something repeatedly funny way bro of teaching us those lessons hell yes and while it may not seem at the time that that could ever happen in your life it's very important to remember that when you judge those things it's actually it's

actually biblical that they talk about this uh and and by the way this idea exists in a number of different religions uh that when you judge people for shit that they did that you haven't done yet a lot of times those situations actually come to you. Well, one of the things I say as well as, um, you know, I'm far more, I have far more grace. I think it's normal. As in like, as you grow up very black and white when you're younger. Yeah. When you're, when you're fucked, when I was fucking 30, I was, it was this or that I knew everything, bro. Cause I wasn't twenties and I wasn't dumb. Uh,

but I was thirties and I was, I knew everything. And you know, when you lived enough life and you've experienced enough things and you've seen enough, you, you come to realize that it's better to give grace than it is to judge because that motherfucking judgment always comes back. It just always comes back. And that's why the canceling thing, it's a boomerang, dude. When you throw the shit out and you fucking cancel people,

that shit comes back. It's going to hit you right in the fucking face when you're looking the other way. Yeah. True. Oh no. I was, you know,

it's one of those things I say, just be very careful because everyone has said something or done something that if somebody had a cell phone and broadcasted to the world you'd be a pariah so just be real careful before you like thank god there weren't cell phones in college you know bro the i think the world is literally a, not just different place, but a much more inferior place than before the technology of a cell phone. I truly, at least the smartphone. Okay. I could see the cell phone.

Got to call you, call me this, that. But when it started absorbing our lives the way that it does, it changed fucking people, bro. Like a lot of people that are so absorbed into this technology, they literally like the shit we were talking about earlier about actually building something. something, it's incomprehensible that it's even possible because of how much brainwashing there is on social and how much villainizing there is of success nowadays, right? It's not cool to win anymore. It's not cool to be great anymore. It's not cool to be wealthy anymore. But the problem is, is the only place it's not cool is in this fairytale world you motherfuckers live in. Out here, it's pretty fucking cool. Okay. You just haven't stuck your fucking head out in the real world. You know, it's cool to not have to fucking worry about

your bills. It's cool to be able to fucking do great things for people. It's cool to create jobs. It's cool to fucking walk around in a body that you're fucking proud of. Well, it's hard to create jobs it's cool to walk around in a body that you're proud of well it's it's hard to serve people when you're broke you can't bro i mean you can and a lot of people do and it's a it's it's needed but it you could serve them at scale with with finances yeah and that's exactly it's about real change that's what people don't understand like when they and and but actually people do understand it. It's those same group of people I was talking about that gave up on their dreams earlier. Those are the ones that say that same shit.

You know, they're like, Oh, that's looking, you don't ever talk about the good things that financial success actually does. If you actually knew how much good you could do with financial success, you would fucking pursue it with everything you had because you would understand that it is highly moral to win and be able to help people and also highly fulfilling. And by the way, people appreciate it and need it. I think a lot of this comes back to, I really see this broader culture war in society, which is, on one hand, you kind of have people that are,

like, fadism and determinism, like nothing is your fault because you were, like, you know, there's people who actually believe that there's no such thing as free will, that, like, the way you act, the way you respond is just all pre-programmed based on your upbringing, your genetics and all that kind of stuff.

Then on the other side, you have, you know, everything is in your control on a hundred percent responsibility, you know, like those sorts of things. And reality is the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. I tend to be more towards this side, you know, but what I tell people is over here where there's, there's, um, nothing is your fault and you're a victim of your circumstances. That is really, um, uh, attractive for your ego because if nothing's your fault, then nothing's your responsibility to fix. Right. Which is also false. But over here, it's like, okay, everything is your fault, but you also have the freedom to change, right? So one of the quotes I really like is that it's important to acknowledge that, yes, certain people, based on their upbringing, based on abuse or trauma or whatever it is, they've definitely got it harder than other people. But one of the things I'll tell people is your excuses are valid because it can make things harder, but they're also invalid because no matter how bad you had it, somebody came from worse and did better. That's right. I can promise you that. That's exactly fucking right. And if nothing is your fault and you're a victim, then

there's nothing in your control to change. So it doesn't matter what happened to you. It doesn't matter who hurt you, what happened. It may not have been your fault, but the responsibility is yours

to fix it. That's right. Because you're the only one that can. I was telling Sal this earlier, like people get so focused on other people and I'm like, think about how hard it is to change yourself. Now imagine the arrogance of thinking you can change another human being. Yeah, no shit. Right? And let's say that person who hurt you did something terrible to you actually apologized. How does that change your life? You can't take it back. All you can do is decide whether or not how you're going to move forward. And like one of the things that got me through one of the hardest periods of my life where I got kicked out of a company I helped start. And then my, my ex-business partners

actually like frivolously sued me to basically try and bully me into taking less than my shares were worth. Cause I was also going through a divorce at the time and they felt like I wouldn't have the money to fight them. It was a very dark time in my life. I owed more money to attorneys than I could write a check for at the time. I just kept repeating to myself, I cannot control everything that happens to me or what people do, but I am in control of how I respond to it. And that has given me a lot of peace in times of stress. It's fucking gold, bro.

You know, we were going to make this in the CTI, but like, bro, we're kind of at time. So like, I know you got to catch your fucking flight. We got through one question. How did you get into this? You know what though? We'll just call this a full length because like, dude, and fly we got one we got through one question how did you get into this this has been we'll just call this a full length because like dude uh this has been a great conversation bro and uh i really appreciate you coming on and sharing your story and your lessons and uh like just getting

to have this conversation with you live for people to hear because you know we know each other we've known each other for a long time, but this is the first time we've gotten into talking about any kind of our stories or anything like that. And it's just, bro, I just truly appreciate your story and commend you for your persistence because I've watched you do it. This isn't what he's talking about. That's not some made up entrepreneur fucking bullshit. I fucking slept on the street story. I watched him do it because I'm in the same industry.

Yeah. And I'm reading his shit on a computer while I'm building this and he's building him. So understand this is like real shit that he's talking about. And I think like now being a dad and having kids it kind of ratchets it up a notch because now you think about all right like i've done something that i wouldn't want my kids to do right like i just talked about it but also like thinking about like did you ever get frustrated and feel like quitting? I'll never forget this. About a year ago, I was in my garage training. I'll usually go to a gym, but sometimes I train in the garage. And my daughter, Livia, she asked to come out. My son, Robert, is nonverbal autistic. So my

relationship with him is just a little bit different. My daughter is completely verbal and makes up for anything that Robert doesn't say. They're both great kids, happy kids. But Livia came out and she was kind of like watching me and asking me questions about, you know, lifting. And she was like, you know, why do you, why do you train so much? And I said, well, you know, I love it. And I was, I was really, really good at this. Like I was the, I was second in the world and I almost, I almost was a world champion.

And then I got a lot of um and then i got a lot of injuries and it's been a lot of work to try and come back and i'll never forget you know this little innocent five-year-old at the time she's now six she looks at me and she goes daddy are you gonna try and be a champion again and i'm like oh now it's like oh yeah so that's like when i got to that meet and i was like you didn't have a choice i was i was like feeling healthy like i i texted my coach i'm like these motherfuckers are in trouble so actually my daughter and my son got to go to nationals um which was my first meet back in like over three years and so i've got all these pictures like my daughter got to

come backstage and she's helping me chalk my back for bench press and stuff. And afterwards, it was this really cool moment after my last deadlift, there's a video of her and she starts to run up to the platform and then stops halfway and everybody's like, go, go, go. And she runs up, gives me a hug on the platform. And then the guy who got second place his son was also there and it was actually on father's day so this was on father's day and i asked the meet director

i'm like do you mind if i take my daughter out when i go accept my medal yeah of course so we like walk out there and i got this really great video for like skipping out there and um so they put the medal around me and then i after i get off i put it around her and she's like i got this great picture of her being like you know that's so and um she was so excited my my uh my buddy mike who was there with me he's like dude she's gonna remember that for the rest of her life and like when she when we were in canada i couldn't take her with me to canada or my son with me to canada either but, um, they were streaming it. And so,

um, when I got back, I was kind of like, well, what did you think? And she's like, I knew you would do it. Ah,

bro. And so it's like seeing, seeing that, like, I'm not going to pretend like I did it for my kids. I didn't do it for my kids. I did it for me. But like all,

I also know like that's so important for them. Yeah. Kids don't care. Bro, that was, you didn't have a choice. Yeah. You have a fucking choice one of that tea moment that was one of those for her yeah she could have watched you fucking quit she could have watched you sit the fuck down and be like yeah i almost made it right right or she could have witnessed and experienced what you created for her and that's that's, that's bro. That's what being

a true father is. I mean, I know you know that, but it's fucking awesome. No. And like, I'm not letting a moment, I'm going to clearly point out how fucking bad ass that is. No. And again, it's like, you know, kids, I mean, this goes for company as well. Sal and I were talking a lot about culture here because I've been really impressed. And it's like, it doesn't matter what you say. Words mean so little. What matters is what you do. That's it.

Because if your words are not in alignment with your actions, it's going to be a bad outcome. And the same thing for kids. You can say whatever you want want but kids look at actions that's right and so you know that was definitely one of my prouder moments of being able to like she saw all that you know my son saw all that and um yeah it was really really cool experience oh dude that's i mean that's what it's about bro and i mean like again like standing backstage by the way that's what the fucking world needs right now.

Like the entire world, the entire world needs that. That's what the fuck we're missing. Well, it's just called getting in the arena. Like if you get in the arena and you do stuff, like even if you don't win, you'll come out a better person, you know? And again, like just standing backstage before we went out for deadlifts, you know, I'm like, like, okay, in the next 45 minutes, I'm either going to win this or lose this based on what I do. And I just kept replaying what she said to me in my head. I had my pictures, you know,

of my kids pulled off my phone. And I was just, I remember thinking there is no fucking way I'm not walking out of here with a gold medal. That's what it takes. It was a pretty cool experience. Fuck yeah, man. Well, bro, thank you so much for coming on the show, man. Oh, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Yeah, I would love to have you on again whenever you want. But next time... Get a guest house in St. Louis.

Next time we're going to shoot some guns. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I miss going out and shooting. Well, bro, thank you so much for everything and shooting well bro thank you so much for everything that you do thank you so much for everything you bring to the industry

and to the world man that kind of leadership inside the house is the most important thing that we need right now and I really I think out of the whole show that last part

I'm just super thankful that you shared it so thank you man I'm thankful I experienced it thank you for having me here. I've thoroughly enjoyed it. Yeah. Thank you, brother. All right, guys. That's the show. Appreciate if you would share

the show. If you're afraid to share the show or you're going to say, I know Andy's not your cup of tea, but I'm going to share this show and you apologize for it. Don't share the show and don't listen anymore. All right. Thanks. See you. for it. Don't share the show and don't listen anymore. All right. Thanks. See ya.