REAL AF with Andy Frisella - Be An Ethical Entrepreneur, with Andy Frisella - MFCEO3

Episode Date: June 23, 2015

Truly successful entrepreneurs are ethical business people. From “giving what you want to get” to “treating your team well,” doing the right thing is a good thing--and good for business.

Hey guys, what's up? It's Andy Frisella. I'm here with the MFCEO Project Podcast. A little about me. We're just getting going on the podcast, so I want to kind of let you guys know if this is your first time listening what I'm about. I started in business 16 years ago with no money. We started a retail store. We lived in that first store for two years. Took us eight months to have a day over 200 bucks. And 16 years later, our company's gross over a hundred million dollars in gross revenue every single year. So we wanted to bring a message to you guys that was different. You know, something that just tells the truth. We're not going to sit here and powder coat

things. We're not going to, we're not going to make it nice and fluffy and dreamy. We're going to tell you what the real deal is. So I want to welcome my co-host here, Vaughn Kohler. Hey, I'm glad to be here. This is a beautiful weekend. Yeah. It's like perfect weather here in St. Louis. Yeah, I've got lots of plans for the next week because I'm batching it. Oh, you are? My wife's going on a conference and my daughter's going with her, so I've got to figure out what I'm going to do with myself. Well, you're going to get crazy and have all the girls over?

Yeah, right. No, no, I don't think so so what are you what are your plans what are you going to do this weekend um i think i'm going to hit the farm man we've got a we've got a farm about an hour away i think what we're going to do is go out there and try to get it cleaned up for the spring which is more like relaxation for me than it is work so you like manual labor yeah yeah yeah that's good that's what i always did until i really got into business um i poured concrete did construction painted the stripes on parking lots which is a lot harder job than what people realize uh you push a 400 pound striper filled with paint across asphalt all day and 100 degree heat that's

what you and chris did in college that's how we got the money to start a company. We were able to put together about $12,000 over the course of a summer. And then during the fall, we made a business plan, and then we were able to open our first business in January. That's awesome. Basically, the end of December, 1999, January 1, 2000, I think was our first day in business. So's awesome. Or, uh, basically the end of December 99, January 1st, uh, 2000, I think was our first day in business. So how does that work? Are you, when you do, uh, the striping is, are you, are you a contract employee or are you like an hourly employee for some

company? Yeah. You work for a company. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they go out and bid the job and then you go in, um, you know, basically do the mule work, which is that job is, is one of the hardest things I've ever done. I've heard, I've heard that roofing is pretty hard too, but yeah, roofing is, is definitely, uh, definitely hard. I've not done it, but I know some guys that do it, it's hard on you and it's, it's a tough job. And, um, you know, I respect anybody that works like that for a living day in and day out. I mean, it's just a different kind of work. Yeah. You know.

Well, what are we talking about today? Today, you know, one of the things that I get a lot of questions about and that I'm big on is doing the right thing. You know, a lot of people don't really understand how important doing the right thing is in business. And, in fact, I feel like a lot of people think that to be successful in business and in life, it's about not doing the right thing. It's about stepping on people. It's about, you know, taking advantage of people. And the reality is, is I feel like that's a stereotype that's perpetuated on unfounded facts. You know, uh, I've had this lesson literally pounded into me from the time I was about five, six years old, um, by my mom. I, uh, it's kind of funny because when I say

literally pounded, I mean, literally pounded. Um, we were grocery shopping at the local grocery store here. And I remember we were going down the Kool-Aid aisle and I wanted to get Mountain Berry Kool-Aid. I remember the flavor because that's how severe the lesson was instilled in me. It was Mountain Berry, which I don't remember how good it was because I never actually got to try it. It's pretty good. Is it? Is it the flavor? Yeah. Cherry's a little actually got to try it. It's pretty good. Is it? Yeah. Is it a good flavor?

Yeah. Cherry's a little bit over at the top. It's a little too sweet. What is it, like a mix of berries? Yeah, it's this really smooth. Yeah, well, I never got to try it, so this is why. We were going down the Kool-Aid aisle, and I wanted to get some mountain berry. And I said, you know, hey, Mom, to get some mountain berry. And I said, you know, Hey mom, let's get mountain berry. And, and, uh,

she said no. And I, you know, I went on and on and said, Hey, you know, let's get mountain berry. Come on, mom, please. Let's get mountain berry. No. Now, was there a reason that she didn't want you to, I like, we didn't really have, uh, I'm assuming, I mean, we didn't have much money when we were younger. So like, um, I'm pretty sure it was a financial thing. Unnecessary expenditure. Exactly.

So anyway, we didn't get it, and I decided I wanted it anyway, so I actually just stole it. I put it in my pocket, and then when we got home, I didn't think the whole thing all the way through because I didn't know how to make Kool-Aid. So when I got home and I wanted to use the Kool-Aid, I had to have somebody make it. So I had to go to mom and say, Hey mom, you know, make me some Kool-Aid. And, uh, when she saw that I took the Kool-Aid home, uh, she unleashed the fire and brimstone of ass beatings upon me. Um, I had to go back. I had to go in and return the Kool-Aid to the store. So you didn't just get in trouble. Oh, no.

You had to actually make restitution. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We went right back to the store. That's how she is, man. Do the right thing. Do the right thing. Do the right thing. And that lesson was so, first of all, like I said,

the ass beating was enough to make you remember, but then the embarrassment of, it's one of my first memories, honestly, because I was like right in that age where you start remembering things. Right. And, um, you know, that was something I've always remembered and I'm 35 now. I still remember that like clear as day. Um, and I was lucky enough to have parents that instilled, you know, do the right thing no matter what in me. And I, and I think how that ties into the, to the subject we're talking about is how I feel about successful people in business that I've been able to, you know, been fortunate enough to be surrounded with and, and get to know and call friends. Um, the people who are truly successful understand what that means in the business setting. And I want to

basically go through some ideas and some topics to, to break up that myth of, you know, you've got to step on people to get ahead, or you've got to, you've got to fuck people over. If you've got to do bad shit, you know, to people or take advantage of people, it's just not the truth. That's what people tell you or tell themselves for their lack of success. And it goes to something like, you know, oh, you know, I'd like to be blah, blah, blah, blah, too, but I'm not willing to step on people or I'm not willing to take advantage of people. And, you know, they have all these stories based around, you know, it's not morally right to run a business or to be successful. And it's just not the truth. Because the truth is you've got to do the right thing for people to get to that point.

Right. So I'm going to be a little bit maybe too deep or philosophical. But obviously, when you talk about doing the right thing, the implication is that there is a moral right and wrong. And I know you get into philosophical writings and different people, and they would say, well, you know, everybody's got their truth and everybody's got their morality. But what you're saying is that deep down everybody knows that there is a right and wrong thing to do in a particular situation. I think people know that.

I mean, you know, if you don't know that, you're probably in jail. You know what I mean? I think most people understand the concepts of right and wrong on a basic level, no matter how much they pretend to or not understand those concepts. So how does that – flesh that out then a little bit, because I know you and I have talked about this, and there's no question. this is a drum that you bang a lot which is do the right thing right in business right so what i mean what does that mean you know there's a number of different ways i think what it comes down to is just always doing what's right you know i'm a firm believer that that what you

put out comes back to you uh some people call it karma. You know, I don't know what exactly, you know, I haven't studied karma or, or I just know that what you put out comes back. And I feel like when you do the right thing for people, good things happen. And I've, I've seen that far too much in our own company. I've seen that far too much in other people's companies to know that that's how you build great things, you know, and it's something I live by, something I believe. You may not believe it. If you don't, good for you, but I can promise you this. You're going to be one of those people that bad shit's constantly happening to you, you know? Right. So social psychologists talk about the law of reciprocity.

I mean, they even talk about that within sales. It's the whole thing of you give somebody something, and there's sort of this innate human, we're hardwired to say, oh, I'm obligated to give back. So is that kind of what you're talking about? I mean, yeah, there's two aspects to it. I mean, that's one way to look at it, right? That's not necessarily the way I was speaking about it a moment ago, but that's definitely one way to look at it. One way to look at it is, you know, hey, if I treat people right, I do good things, they're going to feel, you know, a sense of obligation or loyalty to you to repay you for those good things.

I would say 90% of the people in the world that I've come in contact with operate under that. Some people don't give a fuck. You know, some people will just, just take, take, take. And, and, and I've had that happen to me a couple of times, right. You know in business. And those people don't work here anymore. Right. But I feel like if you're going to me a couple of times, you know, in business. And those people don't work here anymore. Right. But I feel like if you're going to build a great culture, which you might be starting out, you might be a one-man operation. But the reality is, is if you're not focusing on your management skills now, you're going to have a very hard knocks learning lesson about how to manage people and build a team slash culture within your business.

And the reality is you can't do it alone, right? I mean, you can only do so much work. And if you have a good team behind you, you can accomplish a much more. And if you want to have a good team, you've got to treat them right. Otherwise they're going to come to work and show up for a paycheck instead of come to work and basically go to battle with you to accomplish something great. Right. But your general experience in life is that if you engage people in a positive way, that's what you're going to get back. Yeah, I think so. I mean, what do you think? Yeah, I think so. I agree with what you say. There are some people that are just total losers. And it doesn't matter if you're you know to use a poker reference if you're if if you're an ace and they're a joker it's still a bad hand but but yeah i think generally speaking

if you treat people well they're going to treat you i've had a few i've had a few that i can count on one hand over the course of 16 years that have worked for us that didn't they don't care what you do for them they don't care how you treat them they're going to take take take and and they're going to try to to do whatever selfishly benefits. And those people get weeded out. The thing about those people is, is they're going to fuck you over. Then they're going to fuck the next guy over. Then they're going to fuck that next guy over. And eventually they're not going to have anybody and they're going to be sitting at home, you know, basically wondering what the fuck happened to themselves. Right. You know, I think another way of looking at it is that you mentioned,

do you call it karma, what do you call it? But we are all on some level connected. You're a country music fan, aren't you? Yeah. What's that song? I don't know if we're going to figure out what the name of the song is, but there's some song where it basically starts out with somebody doing something to somebody else,

and the whole song is like this cause and effect. It's a great song. I think it's Brad Paisley or somebody sings it. I don't know. Anyway, the point being is that. I mean, every country song is about losing your dog, getting drunk, or losing your girlfriend. Right, right.

Big trucks. But the idea is that, yeah, I mean, what goes around comes around. If you treat somebody well, hopefully that's going to be what comes back to you. So that's your basic principle in life in terms of how you operate? Yeah, for sure. And I think in business, I've seen it too many times. You have a guy who looks for every opportunity to take from his employees or take from his customers as opposed to give. Okay. Those are always the guys that are struggling in business. They're always the guys, you know,

who can never really get it going. I mean, they operate on a breakeven level. They, they barely get by, you know, they might be in business, quote unquote, but they're not succeeding in business. Right. And those are always the guys that are looking, quote unquote, but they're not succeeding in business. Right. And those are always the guys that are looking to figure out how to screw their employee out of his commission or not take care of the customer when he has a problem. They're doing all these things to save a penny today and it costs them millions tomorrow. And you have to look at it from the opposite point of view. You know, the successful people, the businesses that grow and have abundant, gigantic, huge success, they look at their employees and they say, hey, how can I help this guy become a better employee? How can I help him have less worries at home? How can I make this easier

for him? You know, they become a servant leader to their staff. And it's the same for their customers. You know, when a customer has an issue, they don't just resolve the issue. And they definitely don't do it begrudgingly. They do it with enthusiasm. They're happy to take care of customers. It's about losing the attitude that everybody's trying to like take from you, which is kind of ironic because, you know, the people who have that attitude are the same ones that are trying to take from everybody else. So it's like, you know, you've got to change your

mindset, right? You know, if you have a tremendous customer service policy and you're, it's costing you money, you have to look at that as an investment in customers, not as like, Hey, I lost five bucks today because I went above and beyond for this customer. You know, what's that customer going to say about your company when he leaves? Right. You know, and those all come down to doing the right things, you know. Now, you know, I don't necessarily want to challenge you on this, but, I mean, I think you would agree, though, that there are guys out there who are totally shady, who totally mistreat their employees, who the only thing that motivates them is money, not people. And they make a lot of money.

So it's possible to do it, to be shady. Yes? I mean, yeah, it is. You know, there is aspects to business that I feel like people that don't really give a shit about anything but themselves can be successful in. I mean, you know, the financial sector is one of them. You know, look at the collapse they've had over the last five, six, seven years. And, you know, those are guys, you know, that's almost like a perfect example of it. You know, how many of those guys got fired?

How many of them got prosecuted? It's a very selfish, money-driven thing. But I don't think that's most people that we're going to listen to this podcast. Are there exceptions to anything that I say? Absolutely. There always will be. I'm just kind of speaking from my own experience. I feel like those people also, you may be able to make a lot of

money in a very short term, but I think eventually, you know, those people, as they climb the ladder of success, the people at the top are not the people that have been the most selfish. They're the people who have gave the most, you know, there's, and those people will recognize those qualities that are negative and they don't do business with people like that. So there's a ceiling to where you get, you know, I mean, you look at guys that have, let's say the top of the financial ladder, Bill Gates, one of the most philanthropic people on earth, you know, Warren Buffett, same thing. You know, you look at these guys who are just massively huge, wealthy, their companies have some of the best employee benefits programs. They have some of the best pay. Right. Okay. They have some of the best cultures. They give some of, they give most, they give the most money away. Yeah. I mean, you've got to be able to connect the dots there. Yeah, I agree. I mean, it's,

I think Starbucks was one of the first companies to offer their hourly employees insurance. That's right. I could be wrong on that. Yeah, and that's why when you go into Starbucks, every single person is smiling and happy that you're there. Yeah. You know, as opposed to standing in the back room and saying, fuck, man, there's a customer. I don't really want to wait on him. You go wait on him.

Yeah. You know, it's a customer. I don't really want to wait on him. You go wait on him Yeah, you know, it's different. It's a different mentality. Yeah, and you've got to trust that people are gonna reciprocate For the most part. I mean are you gonna have people that are gonna dick you over? Yeah, it's gonna fucking happen man But you can't change your whole business to cater to that Small percentage of people and then treat the 90% of the people that are great and want to be great. Like they're trying to take something from you. And that's where people really mess up.

They like get jaded by a bad experience or on the customer side, they get upset because they ran into that one customer who's trying to take advantage of them. And then they create this policy that, you know, basically says without saying that all customers are trying to take advantage. When in reality, most customers just want their issue solved. Right.

You know, they like you. They just had an issue and they're bringing it to your attention. Right. And a lot of times customers bring issues to your attention because they care about you. So if you treat that person that has brought an issue to you because they care about your business they're they're trying to do the right thing and you treat them like they're trying to fucking scam you think what that's going to do to your business over time yeah you know and that comes those principles come down to doing what's right you know um i mean i i've heard some crazy shit in like business man man, even just like locally

here where, where I'm from, where, you know, somebody's grandma dies and they give them like one day off. Right. You know, like, why not like let that person just take care of their, their, their issues and come back when they're ready. I mean, there's just things that don't really matter that people assume are lies. You know what I mean? Like, you know, like some of these guys that own businesses, oh, that guy's wanting an extra day off because he's trying to take advantage of me.

And that might be true. But most people will not take advantage of you on that. You know what I mean? If you're doing the right thing consistently, they're going to say, oh, man, you know Andy's a good dude. He let me come back when I want, you know, I'm gonna try to get back to work right away. Whereas if you always are treating them like shit and trying to take something from them, you know, customers or employees, they're going to do the same to you. Right. They're going to say, fuck, I'm gonna take an extra day off because I don't want to be around that prick. Right. So I heard probably the most comical but also just insane story the other day.

A young woman that I know, she was going for a job interview, and at the interview, they were meeting at St. Louis Bread Company, and at the interview, the potential future employer – actually, this happened several months ago. The potential future employer said, hey, I'm not going to get you a drink because I don't really have it as part of my budget. Not going to get you a drink. Meaning when they met for the interview at St. Louis Bread Company, the future employer actually said, hey, I'm not going to buy you a drink because I don't have it in my budget. What's that say about your business? Well, as this young woman pointed out,

she said, I was a fool because I should have known better. Three months later, it's like the worst boss she's ever had. She took the job. Yeah. She took the job. She took the job.

So, I mean, yeah, but, uh, in any case, so the way that you would describe that then would be, uh,

just to kind of summarize what you're saying, give what you want to get. Yeah, and people choose to not believe that as truth. They choose to believe that, you know, it doesn't matter. There's no karma. I'm not going to get back what I give. So I'm going to do whatever the fuck I have to do today for me. And, dude, that's a very selfish way to look at it. And when you look at it that way and you choose to believe it, that's the way it is.

That's what you're going to get back, man. Right. And it's almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy because other people see you as selfish. They see the decisions you make as selfish. You become labeled as selfish and somebody who looks out for themselves and then nobody wants to fucking work with you or for you or buy from you. Yeah. You know, so you have two options. You can either

do the right fucking thing and people can look at you and see you in a way of a generous, caring, loyal employer, business owner, or you could be a fucking asshole and always look out for yourself and nobody will ever work for you no customers will ever feel grateful to have you as a business whatever it is you do and people will avoid you and the people who make it in business choose the first path the people who get by in business choose the second path and I'm not talking about everything. I'm not talking about one little thing like, oh, I give my employees insurance. I'm talking about everything that you do.

Right. You know, everything that you do, you have a chance to do the right thing or the thing that probably benefits you today. Right. And you have to be able to make, make doing the right thing, a lifestyle. It's not a decision that you make on a case by case basis. It's a mentality that you adopt, you know, do the right fucking thing, man.

That's what it comes down to. Whether it's helping, um, you know, an older lady cross the street, helping somebody get groceries in their car. They're struggling, you know, sweeping the floor

when it needs to be fucking swept emptying the trash can when it needs to be emptied i mean we're talking about basic shit right but you know most people when you when you think about like what it takes to be a quote-unquote good person and i realize you know people are like well what taking out trash doesn't make you a good person you know it actually in my opinion I think it does because it shows that you're willing to just do the right thing and it also shows that to to an employer that this guy does what needs to be done it's it's a it's a little bitty thing that shows that you care you know what I mean absolutely and the problem I feel like with the do the right thing mentality is that so many people are brought up under parents' beliefs of, you know, maybe a guy has a shitty boss, you know, and he's so

beat down by that boss that he comes home from work and the, and the little kid, you know, who's growing up, all he ever hears is, you know, successful people step on everybody. And, you know, I'm not going to fucking do that because I don't get paid to do that. And blah, blah, blah. You know, and they have all these negative things that come home for years and years and years. And they adopt that mentality. I'm not going to take out the trash because that's not part of my job description. Well, dude, if that's your fucking opinion, if that's the way you operate, you are never going to make it in life.

It will never fucking happen. Right. It't right you know like dude if you're not willing to do the little things if you're not willing to put attention to detail if you're not willing to take pride in the things that you do on a daily basis no matter how fucking small that is dude you're never gonna make it right it's not gonna happen not going to happen. So I, to me, those things tie into like doing the right thing. So what's something else? What's something else that you would talk about in terms of doing the right thing? You say you talked about, we're fleshing this out. We're fleshing out what you mean by doing the right thing. You talked about giving what you want to get, putting it, I mean, you kind of added just now putting in a,

a really solid effort. Right. Well, it's just doing what needs to be done. You know, those things kind of go together. You know, like here's where, like an example of like doing the right thing. It's 5 o'clock, all right, and you're getting ready to leave work. And you say, oh, man, I got to go to the bathroom real quick. You go to the bathroom, the trash can in the bathroom is just like overflowing. Okay. There's two things you can do. You can look at the trash can and say, oh, fuck it. I'll leave it here for somebody else to get it. Or you could just do it.

Right. Because it needs to be done. Right. What do most people do? It's at the end of the day, they just want to get out of there. Right. Yeah. And I feel like that's why most people struggle financially. And I feel like that's why most people live in an average home, drive an average car. I feel like that's why most people are buried in debt. Because it reflects the fact that they're not willing to do the small things perfectly that need to be done. And the things that need to be done in business are usually fall under the guise of quote unquote doing the right thing.

You know, it's taking fucking pride in what you do. Yeah. You know, and that's something I believe in. It's something that, you know, our culture is built on here. And I think all great businesses are built upon, you know, you don't walk into Zappos or Amazon or Google and find people that don't fucking care about the company, you know, that hide under their desk when there's something to be done, man. You think that Steve jobs walked into Apple and said, Hey man, you know,

I need a, I need three volunteers to go sweep the parking lot. You don't think that every motherfucker in there would jump up and go do that? Right. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, absolutely. That's what greatness is built on, man. We're talking about basic shit. Absolutely.

And people just don't have pride in doing those things. And so we're getting a little off track because we're talking about doing the right thing and coming back to you. But what does that say about you and you're willing to do those small things in your career? You know what I mean? Yeah, no, it, it makes total sense. It gets noticed. And people like to tell themselves all these little lies about, you know, oh, I'm not going to do that because he's not going to notice. And no, I'm not going to do that because so-and-so won't notice. Dude, your job and your career, whether it be an entrepreneur or whether it be somebody who's working inside a company or whether it be somebody who is, you know, just trying to get by, is to do it the best that you can.

You know, create the most value in yourself that you possibly can. And if you're somebody working up in a company, your, your mentality shouldn't be, Oh, I'm not going to do those things because so-and-so is not going to appreciate it. It should be, dude, I'm going to do so fucking much that they can't afford. They cannot afford to not have me. Right. You see what I'm saying? Right. Absolutely. Well, I, you know, you mentioned getting off track. I don't, I don't, I don't really think we are getting off track. Cause you talked, we're talking about doing the right thing. First thing you said is give what you want to get. The second thing you said is essentially do the best possible job you can do. That is, that is one of the things that I'm, I'm kind of curious about though. And, and tell me if

you don't want to go this direction, but as a, as a multimillion dollar company, part of it, a huge part of that is your marketing, right? Right. And I know Seth Godin has the book that, I think it's a tongue-in-cheek title, but it's All Marketers Are Liars. Right, right, right. Well, I mean, talk about that, Andy, because what does it mean for you and First Form and your personal business, what does it mean to do the right thing in marketing? Well, first off, I think he changed that book to All Marketers Are Storytellers.

Is that right? One was the first title, but regardless, I've read that book. So the book's title is a little misleading. It's meant to get you to put your eyes on the book. Doesn't it actually have an X

over the liar? I don't remember. Yeah. I read that book. But you get my point. Three or four years ago. Yeah. But the point of the book is not that all marketers are liars.

It's not like this tattletale book. The point of the book is teach you how to market. Right. Okay. And crafting a story around your brand is what's interesting to people. You know, people don't want to just buy your product. The book is about how to create fans of your product as opposed to just people buy your product. That sounds like a future podcast episode. Yeah. I mean, oh, for sure.

I could talk about that for a long time. If you haven't read Seth Godin's books, I mean, every single one of them is solid gold. I mean, the guy's just, he's genius. Yeah. But that's a great book. I don't know, you know. I think that here's the reality. This is one of the greatest things about social media.

Social media forces you to tell the truth if you're marketing. Because if you don't, guess what happens? People find out. Right. You know, it used to be 30 years ago before the internet, before social media, before anything. Dude, if you fuck somebody over in business, you know, they might tell a few people. But the chances of it getting out to everybody are very small. So companies cared less.

You know what I mean? Right. But now you have, everybody's got a platform. Okay. And you don't know who has what platform. You don't know who has a great platform, who has a small platform. It doesn't really matter because if somebody sees something from somebody that has a small following that has a big following and shares it, people are going to know. Right. So social media has improved business, I feel like. And it's kind of funny because the good companies, the companies doing the right thing, embrace social media and love it. And the companies that don't do the right thing,

they fucking hate social media. You know what I mean? Because it works for you or against you. Yeah. It magnifies who you are. Exactly. Yeah. So, you know, people can't lie anymore.

If you lie in your marketing, people are going to find out. And they're going to find out today. They're not going to find out six months from now. They're not going to find out two years from now. They're going to find out today. You know, it's easy for me to post something online and have people all over the world see it instantly. Right. Which means your product has to be good, which means you have to treat people good, which means you have to have great service. You know, the business world is changing. It's, it's the days of having a huge advertising budget and throwing shit out there on TV and cable and radio and then sales pouring in, it's not going to be that anymore.

It's going to be how good do you make your products? How good is your service? Right. How good are your employees? How well do you treat your employees? You see what I'm saying? Right, absolutely. It's made everything transparent, you know? And if you're not authentic, like, and what I mean by that is

if you're not who you say you are, it's going to show. Right. You know, and if that shows, people are not going to be attracted to your brand. Right. You know? So if you're one of these guys who treats your employees like shit but stands out in public and acts like you love them, dude, people are going to find out and you're going to have a bad reputation instantly.

Right. So in terms of telling the truth and being honest and not lying to people and that being part of what it means to do the right thing, I know you have told me before, because I know that anybody who's selling products, like your company sells products, anybody selling products, I'm sure is on some level tempted to exaggerate the results or the benefits. But I know you've told me before that when a guy or a girl, whoever, when a guy or girl comes into a supplement superstore branch and wants to do all this, you know, accomplish all this stuff, you know, like get big and lose a bunch of weight, you kind of put them through a battery of questions. And there are situations

in which you'll actually turn them away or discourage them from buying things. So talk about that because- Yeah, it goes against like every business principle there possibly is. But the reality is, is that it's too easy for people to find out the truth now. Okay. So you can't lie to them. So, whereas like we're in the supplement business, if you weren't aware, um, I mean, we own a number of companies, but the companies that we show publicly are nutrition, sports supplements. There used to be a time where people would advertise for fat burning, quote unquote, fat burning products. And they'd say, Oh, you don't have to do anything.

Don't judge your diet. And you lose two, three, four, five pounds a week, blah, blah, blah. Well, that's fucking bullshit. Right. And, and it's too easy to find that out. If there was a product that did that, everybody would know about it. Okay. And every person that comes in for weight loss knows that that is the truth in their heart. Can products help? Absolutely. Are there products that scientifically proven to help increase calorie expenditure and burn fat? Yes, absolutely.

But if you're not following a good diet, they're not going to work. Right. So you have to question, okay? And this is a big problem with a lot of supplement companies. They want the sale today. So they'll tell people what they want to hear to sell today. Right. But you have to adjust your thinking.

Your thinking should be, what is the long-term result that's going to come of this? And if you think that way, it becomes very easy for you to understand that there is much more benefit for your company to solve whatever your customer's problem is, whether that be in our business, somebody who's wanting to lose weight or get in shape, or somebody who wants a tire on their car that's going to last 50,000 miles. Right. So instead of worrying about that customer and telling them, yes, that tire is going to last 50,000 miles and selling them a 20,000 mile tire, today, what's he going to do at the end of that 50,000? Right.

You know, what's that conversation going to be? You know, your goal should be to own the conversation of, hey, where do you get your tires at? And the guy says, oh, man, you know, I went over to Vaughn's Tire Shop. That guy always tells me the truth, man. He sold me a pair of $50,000 tires. They last 70,000 miles. Okay? You see what I'm saying?

So the word of mouth that you're trying to control needs to be long-term oriented. And when you think long-term, you're much better suited to solve the problems that creates positive word of mouth. People become happy. Your business grows. So is that doing the right thing? I think it is. Yeah, yeah. You know, people come, every fucking business on earth,

it's designed to do one thing. It's to solve a problem. Yeah. That's it. It's still pretty amazing to me. I mean, I don't know why I'm amazed by it, but the idea that, you know, somebody comes in to a supplement store, you have the potential of selling hundreds of dollars in supplements,

and you're going to tell them, dude, the reality is if you don't eat right and you don't exercise, these aren't going to help you at all. That's the truth. Yeah, it's the truth. But I've got to tell you, I've never had a weight problem, but I've gone into other supplement stores before, and they don't even get it. Yeah, but here's the thing. Not yours.

I know, but here's the thing. You sell that person at $300 today, right? $400. That person goes home, doesn't get results. Right. When that conversation comes up about weight loss, which it comes up for people who have weight problems, you know, almost on a weekly, probably a couple of times a week basis. Do you want that person to say, Hey, I went there and they didn't help me. Or I went there and what they told me didn't work. Or do you want that person to say, Hey, I went in there and I tried

to buy shit and they told me to not buy shit until I got my diet, right? Those guys, you go in there and I tried to buy shit and they told me to not buy shit until I got my diet right. Those guys, you go in there, they're going to really help you. They cared about me. You see that? Yeah. It's a different conversation. Absolutely. So what would you rather have for your business? Oh, the, the, they cared about me. That's right. Turn me away. Because that's how people buy. People don't buy because of advertising. People buy because of word of mouth. Okay. There's science out there that shows that, that the companies that advertise on the Superbowl don't sell one extra unit for those ads. Not one. Wow. How, dude, you, you drink beer, right? Okay. Well, not anymore. Cause I'm

gluten-free. All right. Pastor Vaughn, Pastor Vaughn drinks beer. All right. So here's the deal. Vodka is really bad. All right. Let's pretend you still drink beer. Okay. That's beer. All right. So here's the deal. Vodka is really bad. All right. Let's pretend you still drink beer. Okay, that's fine. All right. Budweiser, $30 million on a Super Bowl campaign. Yeah.

Did you buy any extra Budweiser because you saw those ads? I did not. All right. I did not. Why are they spending that money doing that? Well, I do like the horses. Oh, yeah. They're cool.

Yeah. But it's not resulting uh you know i would say my point in saying this is this my point is is that that's not why people buy right you have to think about the conversation that creates opportunity for your company or your coal or your anything to be brought up and the only way to control those conversations is to do the right fucking thing right that's the point that's how we're tying this all together so if you don't do the right thing by your customers you don't do the right thing by your employees let's take two conversations let's take the employee we just

talked about the customer conversation the customer conversation becomes hey um i'm thinking about getting some new tires from where should i go and they're're going to say, fuck, do you go see Vaughn? That guy, he tells me the truth, right? Or they're going to say, Hey, go see Andy at, at, at, uh, the Sutton Superstore, you know, or first form because he's not going to bullshit me. Right. People feel comfortable because you're telling the truth, but let's take that from the employee standpoint. You need good employees to grow, right? You have to have it. Right right and the hardest resource for companies to find is good employees right so how do you find good employees well people hear about companies that treat them well i guess exactly yeah your company your your employees go out into public in their lives and they say one of two things they say i love my job i love what i do my boss is the fucking man he takes care of me he cares about what's going on.

It's fun. Or they say, dude, this place fucking sucks. I hate my job. I can't wait for this next blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. That's it. Right. So you're talking about sales and you're talking about manpower.

Both are controlled. The conversations are controlled by doing the right thing. Right. Right. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. I mean, it makes a lot of sense. But you've got to tie it all together mentally. And like, I don't care what you say. I don't care what you say,

who you are or anything. You will never be able to convince me otherwise. So yes, that's my opinion. But here's the reality. If you don't do the right fucking thing by your customers, you don't do the right fucking thing by your employees. You're not going to be successful. It's not going to happen. You've got to do the right thing. You've got to treat people right. And if you don't, you're going to be broke. Okay. Okay. So playing devil's advocate. What if a guy says, listen, I mean, on some level, I understand what you're saying, Andy, but I pay all my employees extremely generously. That's really all I owe them. I, you know, I think people are short-sighted in thinking that. I think that you've got to give your employees sense of purpose.

You've got to, you know, those employees, if that's all you value in your employment opportunity is money, then you're going to have people, you're training your people to always look for the next best thing that offers them $1 more than what you're paying. You see what I'm saying? Absolutely. So if you don't treat them well, like can you take the – I think what you're saying is taking the perspective of I pay them to do a job, they better do it, and I overpay them to do the job so I can mistreat them almost.

Right, right. Because like a lot of people think that. I see a lot of guys thinking that. Yeah, it's kind of like the guy that beats his wife but occasionally gives her flowers. Yeah, or buys her a Mercedes. Or buys her a Mercedes. Oh, well, I can beat her up. And she stays. Exactly.

It doesn't buy you the opportunity to mistreat your employees. Right. And a lot of people think that. They say, oh, I overpay them. That means I'm going to overwork them. Right. That means I'm going to treat them like shit and blah, blah, blah. But the reality is, is dude, people care more about their purpose and about what they're

doing and about the way they're treated and about what their company stands for. Then they care about money. That's just the truth. Yeah. And the reason is, and this is where people fuck up, like that are because CEOs, I speak for a fair amount of CEOs. Most of them are very financially motivated. I am as well. Okay?

I'm not going to be the guy that sits here and says, oh, yeah, I'm in business and I don't care about making money. No, I fucking care about making money. But I've just learned that the way that you make money is by doing the right by people every fucking chance that you get. Creating the most value you can for people. Now, if you're one of these people who thinks, oh, I'm going to pay a guy who's worth 40 grand a year. I'm going to pay him 80. I'm going to treat him like shit. That guy, the guy in that position is going to get so sick of coming to work that it becomes torturous

and miserable to where the point he's considering like killing himself he will leave and go back to a forty thousand dollar job i've seen it not in our company but i've seen it plenty of times right you know i've had friends that have left great jobs to come work at a better work environment you know if you don't create a good work environment and a good work environment comes from doing the things that you can for your employees, quote unquote, doing the right thing. If you don't create that, there's too many other companies out there creating that. They're going to attract all the good employees, and you're going to be left with the guys who only care about money. And they're going to fuck you just as bad as you fucked them.

Don't you think it works the other way, too? I think people are very tempted. I know. I've done it. I took a job, even though in my heart I knew that the guy that I was about to work for probably wasn't a great guy. Right. But I took the job because it promised a $20,000 increase in my salary. And, boy, was that a mistake.

And isn't it true that on the flip side, I mean, on the one hand, you have the owners who think if they just pay people more, they can treat them terribly. But then the other hand is people think well i could deal with more because i'm getting making right yeah i think there is some there's some there that's how you justify that short-term decision right i mean um that is getting into a totally different subject which i think is like why it's important to follow your passion which is a conversation that most people can't understand, you know, and needs clarification. That's, you know, we have an episode coming up on why it's important to do that. Yeah.

But I think that comes down to, you know, what you're saying. I think people do justify that. I think the reason people justify that is because they think, Oh, $20,000 is going to change my life. When in reality, it doesn't fucking change anything. You're going to go out, you're going to, you're going to buy a car that's $200 more a month. You're going to change my life. When in reality, it doesn't fucking change anything. You're going to go out. You're going to buy a car that's $200 more a month. You're going to fucking buy a bass boat or some bullshit that you don't even need. Right. And you're going to be in the same fucking position that you were in before.

Right. Only you hate your job. Right. You see what I'm saying? Right. Absolutely. Yeah. Don't make short-term decisions in business, man.

Make long-term decisions. You know, the best thing I ever taught, the best thing I ever taught all of our employees, everybody is to see a customer's lifetime value, no matter what, don't think about today. Think about what they're worth over the course of time. Think about what conversations they're going to have about you. Think about what conversations they're going to have about you. Think about what conversations they're going to have about your business. And when you could train people to think that way, and you could train yourself to think that way, dude,

you, you, you just hit like 80% of what it takes to be successful, you know, because we're in a weird position right now in, in, in society and business, the,

the cultural shift in business in general, because of social media has become one where it used to be short-term thinking sell sell sell sell sell sell sell sell sell sell all fucking day right and if you don't sell your fucking fire right to now it's almost that the business you're not in business to sell a product you're in business to acquire and retain customers and if you acquire and retain customers through great culture and through good service they'll buy they'll buy anything that you sell you know if we came out with a brand of first form tires right now, every fucking person that buys first form supplements would order the first form tires.

Yeah. They have nothing. They would. Yeah. I don't doubt it. But that's because those people understand what we're about and then people want to buy from good people. Right. You see what I'm saying? Absolutely. Do you not want to buy the things that you buy from people that you believe in as people? Absolutely. You know, there's a humanization effect happening in business right now because of social media. You know, the faceless, nameless, gigantic corporations that existed for years and years and years and years. Those are slowly fading away. Yeah. You know, you hear about it every day.

Fortune 500 companies down 40%. You see that shit every day now. You know why? Because people want to buy from fucking people, right? They don't want to buy from some faceless nameless organization that they can't relate to. Right. You know, and they want to see real, you know, they don't want to see some polished. There's a reason reality TV is so popular, man. It's why, Why are there not TV shows anymore? Why is it all reality TV?

Because people want to see the real shit. Right. And if your real shit is not appealing to look at, you're fucked. That's it. Right. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So you better work on your internal culture.

You better work on being authentic. And you better work on doing the right fucking thing. Because if you don't, you're going to get smashed. Right. That's just it. What you're saying is making me that's just it what you're saying is making me think of a conversation i recently had with my wife where i i have like the best insurance guy right in the world uh he lives in kansas city and he deals with my

spaciness and like literally when i forget to to sign something there are times where he's actually driven to st louis and just tracked me down to get me to sign something. And the other day, I don't know, somehow it came up that we might be able to get a cheaper rate on our insurance. And I said, my wife, I told her, I said, honey, there is no way I am ever, ever going to get another insurance guy. And frankly, I may be paying too much for my insurance. I'm not sure, but I don't really care. That's right. Because he makes it easy. He makes it easy. And he just, he treats me well and he cares and he goes the extra mile. Dude, people will pay more for that.

He does the right thing. That's right. Yeah. So he does the right thing. So when you think about like doing the right thing, you know, at the beginning of this, of this podcast, some people were saying, oh yeah yeah everybody who's in business is a fuck and they step on everybody and blah blah blah blah dude if you run your business like that you're gonna get fucking steamrolled right by companies that don't right there is no longer an opportunity for you to step on people to take advantage of people to sell people shit they don't fucking need if you do that you're not gonna make You know, the reality is, is you have to care about people because people know now. They can see you.

They can find you. They can come talk to people that know you. That's the power of this network that's been created. And if you haven't figured this out as a business owner or an entrepreneur, that that's how you get ahead, you're in trouble, man. Right. Right. That's it. Right.

So you're going to have to bear with me. Let me, let me, let's just take this to a basic entrepreneurial level. Yeah. I'm just sitting here. I'm just sitting here. These things are running through my mind because I could talk about this for hours and hours and hours. Did you ever have ever in your life a lemonade stand or similar?

I did. Yes. Okay. They were very popular in the 80s so let's talk about lemonade stand because i had one you had one yeah you know we're roughly the same age so maybe we were competitors at one point i just didn't know it but here's the reality lemonade stand yeah simplest business ever yeah all right you don't even have to pay fucking taxes it's awesome well the Well, the IRS did go after one kid one time. It got in the news. They did not. I saw it on Fox News. No way.

I kid you not. It's the IRS. I have nothing against the IRS, by the way. I love you, IRS. We love the IRS. All right. But here's the deal. Actually, that might have been a satirical story.

You were a fine tax-paying lemonade stand. That's right. As was I. Yes, exactly. All right? So we paid our lemonade tax. That's right. As was I. Yes, exactly. All right. So we paid our lemonade tax. That's right. All right.

Let's edit out what I said a few minutes ago. Here's the thing. Lemonade stand. Basic. You make, let's assume that your lemonade and my lemonade are exactly the same. Right. Okay. Because lemonade is lemonade.

I mean, I've had some good lemonade and I've had some bad lemonade, but let's assume that we're both expert lemonade same. Right. Okay, because lemonade is lemonade. I mean, I've had some good lemonade, and I've had some bad lemonade, but let's assume that we're both expert lemonade makers. And you have a lemonade stand on one side of the street, and I am on the other side of the street. And let's assume that, you know, I'm not as, you know, handsome of a fella as I am, and let's just say we're equally as good looking. All right, all right.

We'll say that. No, basically my point is, is this. No competitive advantage, right? No better product. Nothing. Right. Level playing field. Totally level.

Yeah. Customer comes to my stand, tries my lemonade. Says, oh, that's great. You know, comes back the next day, goes to drink the lemonade and spills it. And I say to him, Hey, no problem. You know, um, here's another one. Just, you know, do me a favor and let your friends know, you know, come by my lemonade stand. All right. What's the conversation going to be between the customer and his friends later in the day? Well, if he has a brain in his head, it's going to be,

I was an idiot and I spilled my lemonade, but the guy hooked me up with a new one. Yeah. Right. Guy hooked me up with a new one at no cost. He did the right thing. Yeah. Hey, it was an accident. No big deal. Here it is. Did it cost me a little money as a lemonade stand owner to do that? Yes. All right. Do I see a return on that today? No.

Did it affect my bottom line for today in a negative way? Yes. Okay. Now let's take the same situation. He comes to your lemonade stand. Same situation. He comes to your lemonade stand. Same guy. He goes to your lemonade stand and let's say he had never been to mine. Okay.

So we're backing up in time. Goes to your lemonade stand, gets lemonade. He likes it. He comes back the second day. He goes to get his lemonade from a guy that he likes and he spills it. And he says, hey, can I get another one? And you say no or you can but you're gonna pay for it right you gotta pay for it yeah all right so the guy's like

are you serious and you're like yeah i've got a business to run yeah no i can't just do that that was your fault i did that for everybody right right exactly if i did that for everybody i'd be broke yeah all right how many times we heard that stuff? Right. Okay? So that guy buys another lemonade today because he wanted lemonade. But then later in the day, he goes to his friends and he has the conversation. Hey, man, I went to Vaughn's lemonade stand today. I accidentally spilled it. Can you believe what happened?

That kid made me pay for another lemonade. I can't fucking believe that shit. Who do these kids think they are? Yeah. All right. Yeah. So if you look at it from today, did I sell two lemonades when I should only sell one? Yes.

Did I make double the money I should have made? Yes. But what happened when the conversation was told about my company and how many customers did that cost me? Yeah. Okay? Yeah. That's the value of doing the right thing in business. That's awesome.

And if people can't, if you can't think that far ahead, you're going to have a very, very, very hard time in business. I mean, there's a lot of things we could say about that. I could tell a million stories just like that. And, I mean, I think one way to look at that is what you're saying to people is when you're a, when you're a business person, I mean, yeah, you have to be guided by, you know, sound principles of economics and all that sort of stuff, but be big hearted, be generous toward people, be, be, you know, do the right shit. Yeah. It's not that hard. We're talking about basic concepts of life here. Right.

So you might fire me for this because I have this obsessive, compulsive desire to constantly rehash what you've said. But I want to just, for the sake of our listening audience, I want to go through again what you said about doing the right thing. So basically it's give what you get. Be honest in your messaging when you're talking to people about the results. You talked about treating people well. Don't cheat on them. Be fair and generous. Don't steal from people. Go the extra mile. Dude, it's very fucking simple, man. All it is, this is simple. I'll sum it up you your job is usually keep my

scramble brain intact but let's just sum up that episode do the right fucking thing that's it that's all you got to do period you got to live that way yeah every little thing that you do should be you have a choice a the right thing b the not as right thing choose a if you choose a and you keep choosing A and you make that a lifestyle, success is going to come to you. Right. It has to.

Yeah. Because people are going to recognize that and they're going to talk about you and they're going to bring you more people. Yeah. And the more customers you have, the more what happens. The more fucking money comes into your business.

Right. You can't succeed without A. If you go B, you might make a living. If you go A, you build an empire. Right. Okay? That's it. Do the right thing builds an empire.

Do the not-so-right thing for me today builds a small mom-and-pop business. Yeah. Well, I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who want to build an empire, so why don't you take a second to, I know we're always asking for feedback or if anybody has questions, so tell them how to do it. This is a podcast new thing for us. Our whole goal here is to bring you the unconventional truths of business. If you guys have questions about business, shoot us an email.

The MFCEO.com is a website. Go on there, contact us, hit an email. It comes directly to Vaughn and I. We don't have a staff. It's just us. If you want your questions answered on the air, let us know. We're always looking for content. We always want to help. We always want to do the right thing.

And we want to bring content that you guys are interested in. So if you have a question, if you have a criticism, if you have an opinion, we'd love to hear it because unless it's negative, we don't want to hear that shit. No, I'm just kidding. No, we do. That's a whole other podcast.

Learn from your critics. The people who criticize you are criticizing you for a reason. How to decide whether it's really criticism or if it's just bullshit. Yeah. Constructive criticism. But the reality is this guy said – I don't know if I caught if you said it or not, but did you give the website or your Instagram account?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, no. Instagram, I'm at Andy Fursello. Vaughn, what's your Instagram? At Vaughn Kohler. Yeah. Hit us up. Let us know what you think.

Website is www.themfceo.com. Yeah. Yeah. What's that stand for, Vaughn? I'm not going to say it. Hey, listen. Oh, dude, I got the funniest story. This is so funny.

Oh, okay. Okay, before we quit, this is a funny story. So I got pulled over on Saturday night with my good friend. We were driving. What were you driving? I was driving my Rolls. Your Rolls Royce. This is the brand new one that

you said you were gonna let me sit in but you haven't done it yet the lights played on the car as mfceo okay so uh i was driving down the highway i got pulled over it's like 11 30 at night and they it was two two cars ended up showing up and uh the cops came up to the window and they're like hey you know this is after they wrote me the ticket and they were like, hey, you know, this is after they wrote me the ticket. And they ended up being cool. I just told them to write it because I was speeding. You mean you did the right thing. Dude, here's the thing, though. Those two cops ended up getting my information and they ended up coming to the store to shop.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I made two customers out of it. Yeah. Because I was polite. I made jokes and I took the ticket without bitching. Right. But here took the ticket without bitching. Right.

But here's the reality. They looked at the MFCEO plate and they're like, hey, we just want to know. What's MFCEO stand for? We think we know. We're not sure. And when I told them, dude, they were just dying laughing. That's great. And they still gave you the ticket, huh? Yeah, they did.

They had already wrote it before. But it was cool. I was speeding. I was doing like 20 over. Yeah. But anyhow, yeah. Just a little funny story hit us up the mfco.com and uh we'll catch you up next time all right anything else no it's final word that's it all right word is do the right fucking thing I'm never gonna settle