REAL AF with Andy Frisella - How To Be A Man, with Andy Frisella - MFCEO44

Episode Date: February 2, 2016

What does it mean to be a man? In this episode, Andy Frisella is joined by Ryan Michler of Order of Man, and the two of them answer that question. From taking personal responsibility to developing the skill of adaptability, one thing is clear: being macho is not the same as being masculine. 

Hey everybody, this is Vaughn Kohler and you're listening to the MFCEO Project. Tight pants? Loofah? Hair product? Is that what it means to be a man? Nah. Our guest today is Ryan Mickler of Order of Man and that's exactly what we're going to talk about today. What it means to be a dude. That's today's podcast. Brace yourselves. What's up guys, you're listening to the MFCEO Project. I'm Andy, and I am the motherfucking CEO. I'm here with my co-host, Von Kohler, with a nice polished dome. What's up? You just shaved that today, or what?

I did. I shaved it this morning, very early this morning. It looks like it. Thanks. It's nice and shiny. Yeah. I also shaved my beard, because it wasn't really going anywhere. Dude, I don't know.

I thought it was going well. You thought so? Yeah, I thought it was. It added at least five points to your manliness. All right. Well, I might try it again. Which is funny because that's what we're going to talk about today. Yeah.

But before we get into the subject of this podcast, I just want to talk a little bit about what we did this past weekend. We went up into Utah, Park City, spoke at the Sundance Film Festival. First of all, to any of you guys that came out, because it was a packed house, a standing room only, I had a ton of people come up and they're like, dude, I listened to the podcast. Thank you so much. I had people come, we had people come from Chicago, from Oklahoma, from Canada, from Boston, all the way to Utah to see the Revolution Tour event that I did with

Sean Whalen that are all avid listeners of the podcast. I probably have 40 or 50 people come up and talk about the podcast. And guys, if you guys made that trip, spent your money to come see me, thank you so much. It was a very, very humbling experience, and I appreciate each and every one of you. If I didn't get a chance to talk to you directly, I apologize. It was my intention to try to get around and talk to everybody, but it was just, it was a hectic, chaotic night, but it was also a ton of fun. So thank you so much for coming out. Yeah. It's hard to describe that whole event without using

cliches. But it was just, it was just amazing. It was really the energy in the room between you and Sean. It was – and just the venue being personal and just everything about it. And it was the first time since seventh grade I've been in Utah, so it was – Salt Lake is cool. Utah is beautiful, man. I mean, if you're out there in Utah, consider yourself lucky. I mean, I look around Missouri, you know, here and there a couple times a year, you know, like in the fall, it gets really pretty. When it snows, it's really pretty. But I mean, to have that beautiful lake and then the mountains on the other side and, you know, just don't take that for granted to

spend the time to look around and realize how blessed you are to live in that area, because it is just absolutely beautiful. I told like three or four people that from Utah. They're like, really? I'm like, yeah, dude. Yeah. You don't know how good you have it. Yeah. So, um, are we going to do a question of the day? Well, we are, but I, I have to tell you that I have a personal agenda item that I'd like to bring up. Is that okay?

You have a personal agenda. Yes, I do. Um, so first of all, let me ask you a question. Would you, would you consider writing out a check right now to me for $20,000? No. Okay. Well, apparently my association with you cost me $20,000. How's that?

Because within the last two or three months, I had a pretty high-level client that was going to go with me to help him put together a book. And then he did a little research on me and apparently was offended by the level of cursing and questioned my actual faith commitment because I would be part of a, part of a project, an MFCEO project that had such vile cursing. So. Hey man, look, if you, if you're that delicate that you can't look past

a couple F-bombs here and there to find a real message, I really doubt your ability to be successful on this earth. Yeah, absolutely. So I'm just giving you a hard time. I actually kind of thought it was pretty funny. I would look at that as a blessing because the reality is if you have to put your name on a project that's going to be that sterile that they can't even look past that kind of a message, it wasn't going to be successful anyway. Right.

So whoever it was, you know, grow the fuck up. Yeah. But so no $20,000? I'll buy you a vodka. All right. Well, you've already done that. Yeah. Okay.

But. Are you making that up? No, no, I'm totally serious. Damn, dude, that's crazy. It is crazy. And actually, I thought it was kind of funny. It is what it is, man. Here's the thing about business that people don't realize.

Everybody feels like they have something to say. We talked about this at dinner last night. Everybody feels like they have something to say, and they want to come on, and they want to talk. But the reality is, if you're just going to fucking say the same thing over and over and over again that other people have said a million times before you the same way that everybody said it you're not going to gain an audience and you're not going to be successful so that person i would say to them um that they have a lot to learn about what it takes to build an audience and what it takes to get people engaged into content because and it's not the curse words that that people are attracted to me for that's just something that's just icing

on the cake. Let's face it. Right. You know, but the reality is, is that, um, people don't understand that, you know, the more you polarize and the more you stand for something, uh, the more of an engaged audience you build, right. You know, and if you're just going to pump out the same old generic content, which it sounds like this person probably was going to, right. Um, you know, the book would have failed anyway, and he would have blamed you. Right. Well, I mean, and the other thing about that is to listen to the podcast and only hear the curse words. It's like you're not really listening.

Like you're not. I mean, let's be real, man. How does everybody talk when they're away, when they're outside of a corporate atmosphere? Right. You know, oh, my God. He said, fuck, dude, I've been hearing that word since I was in first grade. Come on. Dude, I dropped about 4,000 F-bombs in front of a group of Mormons at Salt Lake City, and they loved it.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, dude, look through the message. Don't look to the – I always think – I don't know. To me, like those people that do that, it doesn't even bother me. Yeah. That's what's going to stop you from like – Yeah. I just thought I'd leverage it as an attempt to get a bonus of some sort.

Well, I mean, dude, do you really have the warrior instinct and the battle instinct that it takes to go out and get your hands dirty and be successful on this earth if you can't hear a couple of fucks? Right. That's my opinion.

Yeah. Have fun limiting your bubble. That's an excellent point. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great point. So we do have a question of the day. It's not you're getting $20,000. Actually, I don't have a question of the bubble. That's an excellent point. That's a great point. So we do have a question of the day. It's not you're getting $20,000.

Actually, I don't have a question of the day. I am not prepared at all. I have a question of the day. Okay, you go ahead. So how do you feel knowing that I told you that the Carolina Panthers were going to win the Super Bowl three weeks into the season now that they're actually in the Super Bowl, and you told me there's no way.

No way. Yeah. No way. Yeah. No way. How do you feel right now? Well, I'm humbled. And how are you going to feel whenever they actually win? I snapped about it. I admitted that you did say that.

And the truth is, I— What week was that, Tyler, that I said that? I mean— I thought it was like week six. It was definitely early. Yeah, because they were like 6-0, and I think you brought it up right there. You're like, dude, they're going to fucking win. They looked like Alabama against everybody else in college football.

And to my credit, I thought at that point they hadn't really played anybody. But they're good. I mean, you brought it up last night. So what did we learn here? Wait, wait, wait. You brought it up yesterday that Arizona is a very good team, and they throttled Arizona. So there's really nothing to say.

What did we learn? That occasionally you're right. No. What did we learn, Vaughn? Let's try this again. What did we learn? What's our Sunday school lesson? This dude wants a bonus, too.

He doesn't have a question of the day. He doesn't think that you're always right. I don't even have an outline for today. How am I supposed to give you a bonus? You know, I have that much faith in you that you're just going to roll with a roll. Yeah. Yeah. All right. All right. All right. So enough, enough, enough BS and let's, uh, let's get into the show. So, um, today we have a really special guest, cool guest, uh, named Ryan Mickler, who is the host of the order of man podcast. Um, he's also starting an organization called the Order of Man,

which is basically an organization. Well, you know what? I'll just let you talk about it because I want you to explain to people what your goal is, where you came from, what you're doing. And I was on the podcast a few months ago or a few weeks ago. What was it? How long ago was that? Yeah, it was like three weeks ago.

Three weeks ago. It was awesome um i really enjoyed it which is why you know we got this we've got you back out here so yeah um you know welcome thank you for making the trip and uh and you know why don't you let people know a little bit about who you are and what you're doing yeah i'm actually stoked to be out here i was telling von as uh as i came your guys studio is actually a lot like mine except for mine's like a fifth of the size and doesn't have all the equipment. So I feel right at home here. Oh, cool. I'm not intimidated or anything at all.

Hey, man, look, I've got beard envy. Your beard makes mine look like – I've got like a kindergarten beard, and you've got like varsity football beard. That's right. We've got baby face Andy over here. Yeah. I usually take pride in my beard. I'm like, dude, I feel a manly, you know? And then I, we get like Sean in here, we get Ryan in here and I'm like, God, dude, I feel like I haven't even hit puberty.

Yeah. Yeah. Ryan has that kind of beer that you, I kind of want to call you Jedediah or something. I get that a lot among other names that I said that you said that was 10 months of growth. This is 10 months and I'm committed to a year. So we'll see. But I can't imagine. I cannot envision a day where I'd actually go into the bathroom with trimmers or a razor. So are you trimming it at all? I do. I trim the bottom a little bit just to clean it up and make it nice. A little, a little bit, but not a lot. It's looking good, brother.

Yeah, it's coming in. I appreciate that. Yeah, it's coming in. You know, my good boys are the Dollar Beer Club guys. Oh, is that right? Yeah. I actually use those guys. Yeah, they're awesome. Yeah. The best thing I like about it is the dollar beer club guys. Oh, is that right? Yeah. I actually use those guys. Yeah, they're awesome.

Yeah. The best thing I like about it is the brush they send you. They send you an awesome beard brush. Yeah. But anyway. Yeah, I've got the brush, the comb, the beard oils, all that kind of stuff. They're good dudes. Yeah, absolutely.

So anyway, enough about beards. Yes. Tell us about being a man. Yeah, let's do it. Yeah. You know, the background of the story, and we talked about this a little bit. I grew up without a permanent father figure as I was growing up. And what we talked about is, on the podcast when you were on the show, is that sometimes you don't know what you don't know.

Life is life, right? And so that's how it was for me. I didn't know what it was like to have a dad. But around middle school, high school, I started looking around, and I saw these guys that were playing baseball with their dads, and they were going on campouts with their dads. And I didn't have any of that stuff. So I got a little bit of envious about that and was, was able to join sports and I joined the military and I got some of that masculinity type stuff through those outlets. But really this changed for me as I

started to have kids, I've got three kids, I've got one on the way. And man, I, I remember when we had our first, I was a jerk. I was a bad dad. I wasn't a good husband because I never knew what it took to be those things. I didn't know what that looked like. And so I just did what I did and what I was exposed to. But I realized along the way that I need to step up. I need to be a better dad. I need to be a better husband.

I need to be a better community leader. And I didn't want to sit on the sidelines. I wanted to get involved. And this is how I get involved for myself with starting order a man and how I get my boys involved. And we've had conversations. I've actually had my eight-year-old son on the podcast, which was awesome. Kids say the funniest stuff and they're talking about being real and authentic. Uh, I think, I can't remember exactly, but he was calling me out on some stuff. He had, Oh, here's what he called me out on. He said, uh, one day I was doing chores or something out in the yard and he was trying to

help. And I do air quotes when I say help, because you know, an eight-year-old, how much an eight-year-old can help. And he said, dad, you just threw this big sissy fit. You threw the shovel across the yard and you yelled at me. So he called me out for this stuff. And I'm like, yeah, there's some things that I really struggle with that I personally need to work on, which is why I started Order of Man. And it's resonated because I think a lot of guys are kind of in that similar boat where they know they want to do some stuff in life. Right. They want to be better husbands, better fathers. They want to do stuff in their business.

They want to do stuff in their community. But we have no idea how to do it because there's nobody leading the way. Right. You know, charging the path. Right. So that's what I'm here to do. Yeah, man. I really dig the mission that you're on and what you're trying to do. And, you know, I personally see exactly.

I think we see things very similar when we look out and see what has become of the man, you know, so to speak. And just because we're talking about being a man doesn't mean that women shouldn't listen because you're going to pick up some things here, too. Oh, it's all applicable. Right. Right. But we get, you know, I see this all the time, man. I feel like men have become almost, I don't know what the word is, but like they've lost their masculinity.

Emasculated. Emasculated. I prefer wimp, but whatever you want to use that's fine. But that's what's almost been told over, if we watch TV or we watch movies, for the for the most part with the exception of these super testosterone-filled action movies. Blowing everything up. It's either one or the other. It's like, dude, kill everything or be a total pussy. That's right.

You know what I mean? I feel like most guys out there, they're not like our grandfathers. Or even my dad. My dad knows how to fix a fucking small engine he knows how to fix his car he knows how to do everything right you know what i mean yeah the only thing that a guy that i see know for the most part know how to do today is to like be the whipping boy for their woman that's what it is you know what i'm saying yeah guys don't know how to be men they think well we've been i think in in a way, the media has conditioned us to believe that we should only be sensitive

and we should only care about other people's feelings. And all those things are important. There's certainly elements of that. There's other elements that we're missing. The meme that's going around on Facebook is something about a beard. Like if you can't change your tire but you still have a beard, you need to shave it off. Yeah, and that's what it is. So we put on these fronts and we grow a beard. Like if you can't change your tire, but you still have a beard, you need to shave it off. Yeah, and that's what it is.

So we put on these fronts and we grow a beard and we wear the clothes and we build the muscles. But deep down inside, there's no real masculinity. We're just trying to put on this front that we're actually men when in all reality, deep down inside, we don't even feel that way because we're not doing manly stuff. Right, right.

And it's not even just about doing manly stuff either. It's, you know, stuff either it's you know i think ultimately you know it comes down to one basic trait and a lot of people men and women don't have it but i think it's super important for a man because i mean it's in our dna to be the provider uh you know to take charge to be controlled to be the protector and a lot of guys can't even take responsibility for their own shit you know like everything is everybody else's fault everything you know like you could have easily said you know what i didn't have a dad so that's why i'm a shitty dad right i i'm doing a

shitty job because i never had a dad and you could have perpetuated that cycle over and over and over and over again and i think at the end of the day, whether it be in entrepreneurship and guys, everything we talk about here is going to tie back to principles that you can use to make money for sure. But there are also principles that you can use to be better and make a better impact in your life. And I think, you know,

ultimately what you talk about and what I gather from the, the information that, you know, we've talked about and also what I've heard on the podcast, um, which your podcast is awesome, by the way, I appreciate that. Where can people listen to it? Uh, order man.com. Okay. Yeah. So I highly recommend that podcast. I think you guys need to listen to that on a regular basis. Um, but I think the point that is transcendent amongst all the information that I see coming out of what you're doing is to take responsibility. Oh, for sure. You know, to look yourself in the mirror,

be self-aware, be able to look and say, I'm doing this wrong. I'm doing this wrong. I'm doing this wrong, but also say, I'm doing this right. I'm doing good here. Right. And be able to evaluate yourself, you know, it's, it's really interesting. So I'm coaching my son's basketball team right now. He's eight years old. And at this point, I actually went to the community center that hosts the basketball league because they're not keeping score. These are eight-year-old boys. Here comes a fucking soapbox. That's right. Do you know what the question is that these eight-year-old boys are asking very first at the end of the game? Dad, who won? They want to measure. So society is conditioning us to, to not compete, to not step up, to not take accountability. Look, if you lose my eight year old knows this, my five year

old, my two year old knows this stuff. If you lose, you just need to do a little better next time. It doesn't mean you're bad or good or anything else. It just means you weren't good enough at that point. And what can you do to move? But this, this problem goes all the way up to the office of the presidency of the United States. I mean, anywhere from two years old up to arguably the leader of the free world cannot take responsibility for their own decisions, and it's driving us crazy. Well, let's talk about that. Let's talk about what you lose when you refuse to lose.

Yeah. Okay? When you take away the losses, you're taking away the lessons, and that's what people don't understand. When you take away the losses of a five-year-old kid or a three-year-old kid or an eight-year-old kid, first of all, it's not natural because they understand, just like you said. They know. They know that they're supposed to win.

Right. They don't grow up thinking, oh, I'm supposed to be fair and everybody's fair. That's not a natural thing. A natural thing. A natural thing, if we were born and nobody taught us anything and we grew up to be puberty age males, and we saw another puberty age male, our natural instinct would be to kill him. Yeah, I want to be better than that guy.

That is natural. Now, am I saying you should go stab people in the head? No, I'm not saying that. What I am saying, though, is the, to win is good thing. It's natural. And when you take away the losses, you're taking away the lessons, you're taking away the ability to learn and you're taking away basically the

future of this person because they're not going to be prepared for the situation that life throws at them. Whereas like these moms, you know, these moms think, Oh, little Johnny, I'm so sorry you lost.

Here, let me get a trophy for you too because you lost. Because that's where the idea came from, right? Right. Participation trophies. Let's make this guy feel good. You shouldn't feel good about losing. Right. That's the point.

So you can learn from that. Right, exactly. You're not supposed to feel good. And I talked about this a couple weeks ago. Winning is natural. Winning is a real thing winning is uh a natural human instinct when you're a fucking toddler and you have the play school uh you know basketball hoop and you throw the little plastic ball and it goes in there

you're like yeah dude because you know that you don't even know what the hell you're doing you just know that you did something good. That is natural. And, dude, society is trying so hard. And I think we're in a good time because I feel like people are tired of this. But society is trying so hard to pull that out and to make it equal. And, dude, that's just not reality. Yeah, I think what's really demoralizing is that sometimes, you know, it's easy to blame women and say, oh, it's soccer moms.

This is why we've got this attitude. It is soccer moms. Yeah, but there's a lot of guys that promote the idea too, I was telling you. That's because the reason guys promote that idea is because the soccer moms force it on them, and they say, I'm not going to fuck you unless you fucking raise our kids that way. And guys become slaves to the vagina. That's the truth. And that goes down to being a man too.

Dude, if you're supplicating to get laid, like, dude, get lucky. Like these dudes that use that term, get lucky. Dude, if you're walking around saying, I'm going to get lucky tonight, you're looking at it the wrong fucking way. That's not what your wife wants. Sorry, I'm being crude, but I'm being honest. No, no, I get what you're saying. But I was telling Ryan, like, my sister-in-law, we coach a third-grade boys team,

and they're undefeated. They've done really well. And this guy came up to her. Obviously, we were in Utah this past week, and this guy came up to my sister-in-law, who's a coach, and after our team had defeated the other team pretty soundly, he said two things to her. He said one thing.

He said, you know, you really shouldn't play the black kid too much because he's so much better than everybody that he makes the other kids feel bad. And then the second thing he said was, you know, when you guys were up by like 15 or 16, you should have told your kids. This is word for word. You should have told your kids not to play so hard. Isn't that crazy? That guy was crazy. That guy was trained somewhere along the line to think that way.

Yeah, that's the point. Yes, crazy. I think what I do, what I say was an extreme example, but there's a lot of truth to what I'm just saying. No, I absolutely agree. I agree. A lot of dudes get trained that way one way or the other. And that is not a natural instinct.

A natural instinct is for somebody to go, dude, when you get a kid who plays John Madden football when he's eight years old, dude, he runs the score up to, like, a million to nothing. And he's like, fuck yeah. That's natural. You know, dude, that killer instinct, that, that like drive it home, win instinct that, that is beat out of people as they grow up. Well, and I think too, the other thing is, I think we forget again, as a society, we forget that people are resilient and that's what we're, we're, we're trying to keep people from getting hurt, but you know what?

They're not going to get hurt. They're going to get stronger. So my boys were wrestling the other day. I have an 8-year-old and a 5-year-old, and my 8-year-old grabs the 5-year-old literally by the neck, slams him down on the ground. I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, he just broke his neck, and my 5-year-old gets up and laughs it off.

Now that's physically resilient, but we're mentally resilient. Right. If we're allowed to fail, if we're allowed to do that stuff. Those things are related. Right. The physical resilience and the mental resilience are related. The more ass beatings you take, the tougher mentally you get. Right.

Absolutely. Because you know you can handle it. Right. And do you want your kid to graduate high school and go out in college and think, oh man, I could show know, just barely apply myself and everything will be fair and I'll get A's. Yeah. I mean, that's not how it works. No, of course not. And then you're going to send them out into the real world past that

because let's be real, college is teaching the same shit now. Of course, yeah. Okay? You're going to send them out in the real world to get a job and they're going to go out in the job world and they're going to be like, oh, yeah, you know, they're going to think they're the shit. And what's going to happen? They're going to go out in the job world and they're going to be like, oh yeah, you know, they're going to think they're the shit and what's going to happen. You know, they get crushed.

Somebody comes in and tells them they're not what they thought they were. And dude, sometimes people react crazy and fuck. There was another mass shooting today. Yeah. They're fucking, you know, the out of San Diego. Yeah. You know, I saw it on the news this morning. People go fucking crazy.

They don't know how to deal with anything. Right. You know what I mean? They go, they go crazy. They think they're supposed to be gifted everything or entitled everything. And dude, it ruins their whole life. So you're raising your kids in a way that not only weakens them, but you're taking away their ability to actually lead a purposeful, successful life. Right. You know, and well, there's this problem. A lot of people think that's a joke. They think that like when I, they do, when they hear what I'm saying, they're like, dude, Andy, you're way overblowing it.

Motherfucker, I have a hundred fucking employees that are between the ages of 20 and 25 years old, and I interview a hundred people to get one employee. Yeah. So I know what's out there. So unless you're in that situation where you're interviewing that age range every day of your life, multiple times a day, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. And I do because I do it. I know what these people are prepared for, and it's not much.

Well, I think that part of the reason, too, is we look at parenting. I used to believe this, too, to a degree, is that our job is to protect our children. No, your only job as a parent is to make that child self-sufficient. That is your primary focus. And so we don't need to be worrying about being their friends, although there's an element to that. And we don't need to coddle them and protect them from everything. Our job is to make them self-reliant so when that time comes, they can do everything they need to do on their own without our support. And nature supports that.

We see that in nature. But for some reason, as humans, we're losing focus or losing track of this and so like you said they get beat up when they get into the real world and actually get into a fight whatever that fight looks like yeah and it could be a million different right ways right so and you know there's literal people out there they're like an actual fight right exactly like yeah right we're talking about the struggles of life okay if you can't understand that please turn off the podcast but you know i think that's something that needs to be thought about is you know look back on the people who have been hard on you in life like i can i can think of like different people who have been really hard on me those

are the people i love the most now for sure you know what i mean like and parents think that they by making it an easy path that their kid's gonna love them more dude at the end of the day when your kid goes out and becomes an adult and is out there and realizes what skills they don't have and the way they were raised and the lies they were told they're going to resent you for that yeah they're gonna say dude my parents didn't teach me what i needed to know so i had this this coach in high school, but that's like the inverse of what the parents trying to get, right? They're trying to create the love and the friendship and the, you know, and the way you get that over the course of your life is by telling them the truth, teaching them exactly what you're saying to be self-sufficient. You know what I mean? You know

how thankful I am, dude. There was times in my life where I wanted to punch my dad in the face, like on a daily basis, but you know how thankful I am? I have the dad that I had. You know what I mean? Like, it's just something that you wouldn't be the same without that. No. Yeah. I had this coach in high school. So I was, uh, I was playing baseball. I played three sports in high school and I was playing baseball. I was a junior. And I thought because I was going to be a senior that I was entitled to the starting catching position when we came to baseball and a senior season came around. I started and my coach pulled me three or four games into the season and he put in a junior instead of me. And I was pissed. Yeah. And my mom said, well, I don't know, go ask him, go ask him

why he pulled you. So I went and asked my coach, coach, why'd you pull me? He says to me, Ryan, I told you in the off season, you needed to work on this, this, this, and this. And it's apparent to me that you did not work on those things, so I need to make a decision for the team. And as pissed off as I was about that, he was right. And I'm so grateful that he had the foresight to teach me a lesson over three months that will literally now last me for the next 50, 60, 80 years because he was tough enough to be hard on me that way. Right. You know, and I, I, I could name a million lessons the exact same way. You know what I mean? Where I thought I, you know, was good enough at something or wasn't

and either the market or a coach or, you my dad or whoever i was i was lucky enough and i don't say lucky very often but i was lucky enough to be around people who let me know when i sucked right you know what i mean right and so now i look in the mirror and i'm i you know i don't have an overinflated sense of of confidence i have a realistic viewpoint of myself. I know where I'm good. Like last night we were talking at dinner. What did I say? I said, I don't think there's many people that could speak on a stage. Right.

Because I know I'm fucking good. Right. You know what I mean? But there's other things that I will equally say, like, dude, I'm not good at that. But you own it and you recognize it. Right, exactly. And that improves it. Right.

And that's not being cocky or overconfident. That's just being self-aware. Right. And that, and that's, that's not being cocky or overconfident. That's just being self-aware, right. You know, and knowing what you're good at, where you need to improve. And I think I even said last night, you know, every time, no matter how good I do, I can be better, you know, but you know, I just think that America as a whole, for some reason has, I mean, what do you think, what do you think that, I mean, you have to have a philosophy on where this started. You know, what do you think it is? Yeah, I don't know where it started. I really don't. I think this was gradually over time, is that people became more and more concerned about other people's feelings and more and more

concerned about equality. I mean, that's a big, huge issue. And I think the definition of equality is completely off. We're misjudging, misinterpreting what that word actually means. So there's equality type movements and things like that, but this is just compounding. And that's the reality. It's going to get continually worse and worse until we realize that, hey, take accountability. You know what? Even if, and we were talking about this at dinner, even if it is somebody else's fault, even if there is some outside factor, you know, I think I'm a financial advisor by trade. So I think about 2008, 2009, everybody's complaining about the market. And that was real.

Right. Like, there's no doubt that was a real issue. Right. And that impacts, I'm sure it impacted your business. I'm sure it impacted other people's business. But placing blame and responsibility on outside factors, even though there may be an element to that, does not help you improve. No. So saying that, oh, the market's bad. This is the way it is. And throwing your hands up doesn't help you grow the business, but saying, hey, the market's bad.

How are we going to prepare for this next time is what makes you stronger and better the next time it actually happens. You know what's funny is you said it affects our, it might probably affect our business. Dude, from 2007 to 2012, my company grew a hundred percent every single year. You know why? Did it really? You know why? Because everybody else said the market sucks. business dude from 2007 to 2012 my company grew 100 every single year you know really you know why because everybody else said the market sucks you're not going to grow yep and you know what i did i went all in and i fucking i knew that they were going into their turtle turtle shells so i went on the offense and i was able to capture that market awesome you know what i mean exactly like you the ability to take responsibility even when it's not your fault is a tremendous,

first of all, if you're an employee, okay. And we talk about the entrepreneurial mindset, um, and creating value. If you're an employee, not only if you're an entrepreneur, if you're an employee and you're able to grasp this concept that we're talking about right now about taking responsibility, even when it's not your fault, you have no idea how valuable that is. Like, dude, when I have somebody who could straight up own the issue, because, dude, let's talk about taking responsibility. It's not just saying, and I run across this a lot of times, sometimes even in my own company, oh, that's my bad.

I fucked up, blah, blah, blah, and that's it. That's only half of taking responsibility. What's the other half? Yeah, you've got to change it. You've got to fix the problem. And if you're one of these people who could take the idea of accepting responsibility even when it's not your fault and fixing the problem, you will have unlimited income potential in your life.

Yeah. Unlimited. Because it's so rare. It's so rare. Well, and think about how many times we hear, oh, I don't like my job because my boss sucks or my work sucks or they won't give me this promotion or they won't do this shit like when people tell that like do you get like a sick stomach when people of course yeah i roll my eyes man like when people start saying that shit to me i'm like okay i like i automatically look at them like dude you're a loser right and

you know and i do judge people i'm sorry or if you look you know it's funny if you look at people's resumes or or you're interviewing them i used to interview with a company I used to work with. Part of my job was to recruit people and I would look at their resumes and we would talk about their past jobs. And a lot of times they'd say things like, oh, this job didn't work out because of this. And this job didn't work out because of this. My boss didn't see eye to eye. Exactly. It doesn't even have to be a bashing. No. And you know what I say to him? I say, you know what? You're the only common denominator in this scenario, right? So it's probably not the boss or the past five bosses that you've had. It's probably you.

Right. And you've got to understand that. That's interesting because that is something. When I said we interview 100 kids to get one, I'm not lying. Oh, I bet. It takes 100 kids to get one that gets it. And that's sad. But that right there, first of all all if you ever go on an interview

learn how do not ever say anything like oh it didn't work out because of so and so or we didn't see how anybody knows what that means yeah you know what that means that means you're gonna be a pain in the ass here too right you know what i mean and you're not working here that's just it i'm just curious i go ahead tyler oh no oh i thought i was i was gonna say andy you're not working here. That's just it. I'm just curious. Go ahead, Tyler. Oh, no, you're good. I was going to say, Andy, you're also forgetting about, you know, you only keep like five out of those ten of the hundred that you hire, you know? Yeah, I mean, even out of the one out of a hundred. Yeah, they only probably, let's say out of ten that make it,

probably only three end up making it longer than six months. Yeah. You know, and that's how big the problem is. It's a huge problem. It is. So I'm kind of curious how both of you guys would respond if you had a situation where you were interviewing somebody and instead of making excuses, they said, I totally screwed up that job. I won't do it again.

I would love that. Oh, that would be awesome. Yeah. It would be so refreshing. Dude, I've never one time heard that. Never. Out of the literal thousands of interviews that I've been a part of, never one time have I heard something like that.

You know what's funny? If I heard that, I would say, I would probably look at the dude and be like, I wouldn't even know what to say. Yeah, because you'd be so caught off guard. Right. You know? Yeah.

There's so much value to be created by just being able to do that. It's one of our core values of our company. Like if you can't accept responsibility, you know, you're not going to work here. Yeah. It's just it. But a lot of people, I want to hit on this again, a lot of people misinterpret accepting responsibility,

which is saying, oh yeah, bro, that's my fault. That's only half of it. The other half is going out and changing whatever that is and fixing it. Right. Like without, you know, having to be told, you know what I mean?

Yeah. Cause it's easy to say that people get into the habit. I know this cause I've had employees, dude, I've had, I've had employees get in the habit of this or they like see, accept responsibility up on our wall as a core value. And then,

you know, when I say, Hey man, you're, you fucking suck. They're like, yeah, I know, man, I man i'm sorry it's my that's not taking responsibility taking responsibility is saying you know what you're right and i'm gonna fix it it'd be easy to listen to this podcast and walk away and incorporate the no excuses i'm sorry hold yourself accountable as this cute

little buzzword right which it is it's a It's a buzzword, right? It is. It is a buzzword. So in the military, I spent some time in the National Guard, and I spent a year in Iraq in 2005 and 2006. But when I was in basic training, one of the guys that was helping me as I joined the military said, just get really used to the phrase, no excuses. And so we'd go and we'd do things and we'd mess things up,

and we'd see other guys mess things up, and we'd use that phrase, no excuses. And the drill sergeants would just pass right over us. They wouldn't do anything because they're not used to hearing somebody say, I don't have an excuse for why I messed up, but I'm going to work on it. I'm going to prove it. I'm going to do this. I'm going to change this.

And they leave you alone. That's life. People don't know. Just like you said, if you're interviewing somebody and says, yeah, I really messed that up, but here's how I'd fix it moving forward. You wouldn't know what to say. No, I wouldn't. And I, I would, I would 100% all things being equal, hire that guy. Probably. There's a level of respect that comes from that. Cause you know, everybody messes up and if somebody can actually own it, dude, I mess up every day. Right. You know what I mean? It's, it's, that's the thing I think that

people miss on is they think that like, they think everybody, like they think people like, like at my level, you know, who's built a little bit of success for himself. They think, Oh, he must do everything right. No, I don't. But when I fuck up, I admit it first of all. And second of all, I'll go fix it. Right. You know what I mean? Right. And how much further are you ahead because you actually fixed it? Dude, it would be easy for me to sit, be still running that one retail store in Springfield, Missouri saying, man, you know, the market went south or, you know, the supplement industry is too competitive or, you know, I didn't have any bank financing or I didn't have anybody to help me or I didn't, you know, I could make up a million excuses.

Yeah. You know, I got stabbed in the fucking face, almost died. Nobody wants to talk to me. Like, dude, I could make up a million excuses. Yeah. You know, I got stabbed in the fucking face, almost died. Nobody wants to talk to me. Like, dude, I can make up more excuses than most people. That's why it bothers me so much. Right. You know? Right.

Because you've been through it. You know it. Right. Yeah. And people, the excuses that they make, they're not acceptable to me. Well, and it's in every area of life. I mean, I talk about relationships. I think about your relationship with your spouse. It's easy to say, oh, my wife doesn't understand me or she

doesn't know what it's like to be an entrepreneur or she doesn't know how to communicate with me. And those are all things I say that because those are all things that I said in my marriage. I've heard that. I've heard those things in previous relationships of mine as well. Yeah. Yeah. And you know what? That may be true. There may be elements of that. But again, if you really want to own it, look at yourself first. What can you improve? What can you change? How can you be a better man? And I promise that when you're a better man in business, in your community, as a father, as a leader, as a coworker, whatever, when you start taking ownership, your life is going to switch. And it's going to do it fast too. It's going to be a quick

switch because you're making changes fast. Hey, Ryan. Oh, I was going to say, I love the question. How can I be a better man? So I'm curious because in fairness to a lot of the guys, maybe the young guys that are listening to this, they want to be a better man. And you guys have talked about not making excuses, taking responsibility. And we talk about that a lot on the show. But I want to get into that more specifically. We were going to say the same thing.

You know, to a young person listening right now, you know, like an 18, like, you know, let's say an 18 year old version of yourself. Yeah. You know what? You're going to put your arm around him and say, Hey, you know, Ryan, look, listen, bro, this is the way it is. It's not this, this, and this, what would the, it's not this, this, and this, and what would the actions you need to do this be? You know? Yeah. So let's talk about this. So here's the first thing you've got to figure out what it is you want in life. Right. And we hear that a lot and I don't want to, I don't want to just stop on that because everybody says that. Right. So identifying what you want in life. Now, here's what I want you to do next. Think about why you're not there. There's a gap between where you

want to be and where you currently are. Come up with every reason as to why that's the case, why that gap actually exists. And then go through each one of those excuses because that's what it is. Come up with each one of those excuses and ask yourself, how does this serve me? And if the answer is that excuse doesn't serve me, just cross that off the list because there's nothing you can do about it. And so you start looking at your excuses and you start looking at the reasons why you're not successful. Maybe one of them is I don't know the right people. Okay, good. How does that serve me? Well, it helps me realize that I need to get in front of the right people, which is part of the reason that you and I are connected right now. Right. I realized that Andy has this platform and he's talking to these guys and I want him to have

him on my show so he can provide value and I can provide value to him. And so I consciously and deliberately reached out so we could connect. And that's the way the world works. Nothing wrong with that. Right, exactly. That's how we worked. We talked about that last night. You know, we were talking about,

a lot of people would look at that and be like, oh, well, you know, that's just manipulating the platform. No, man, that's how fucking business and life works. Right, right. You reach out to people you want to be associated with consciously. You don't just, like, when we talk,

dude, remember last night we were talking about how people go through life passively. Yeah. You know, like they don't think they don't actively think about who their surroundings dude, explain how you explained it because it was really good. Yeah. So we talk a lot about being deliberate and Vaughn, you've talked about this as well. I think you used a different term than intentional, I think is the term you used, but that's what it's about. You know, we go through life and we get up and we set our alarms the way we've always set it and we drive the work the way

that we've always driven to work and we do the stuff our boss tells us to do because that's what he tells us to do and that's been our life for the past 10 years. And then we get home and like you said, in some cases we get henpecked by our wives because we're not man enough to say and to assert that this is what I want out of life and to take ownership and control of it. And so we live

passively and we live timidly instead of thinking and getting up deliberately and being conscious about here's what I want to do today. And here's who I want to meet. And here's what I want to accomplish. And here's what I want to be to my wife. And here's what I want to be for my kids. We just hang out with the same friends, our-workers or our neighbors and we do the same thing they do because it's easy yeah and most of that stuff is bitch about the way things are right ironically together right because it's kind of fun like misery loves company so oh if Andy's complaining about it cool that gives me permission to complain but if you're not complaining about it right I mean think about the guys in the office here with you is i can already see that they've incorporated

your beliefs oh yeah dude we've got because you guys that's the culture yeah that's what's expected i'm hard on the young generation but i'm gonna tell you right now my young generation that works here with me they're fucking killers right like they're the best there is i even said that on stage we were at a sundance i'm like hey man if you're looking for the young generation to step in and be a part of your company because we had a lot of entrepreneurs there yeah i'm like well i have the best 110 young generation so all you guys are fucked good luck exact quote of what i said yeah you did you know because it's the truth and and a lot of these guys come in and they've lived that passive way and you can see the

transformation happen is that just from being here with you? I mean, what do you attribute that to? Cause I, it's a culture, man. It's a culture that we, like at first when it was small, it was like, you know, 10 guys and we were like all really tight knit and we're still really tight knit, but it's, you know, we don't spend as much time together, but it was like 10 guys. We said, okay, this is what we stand for. And anybody who doesn't stand for this we don't want them here right and that developed that's the important of setting core values for your company first of all and for yourself right um but once you start to establish that it takes on a life of its own so like when we bring a new guy in you know these guys here i don't even have to talk to this dude he'll come in.

These dudes will, you know, they'll figure it out. They know quick what's expected. Like, they'll come to me and they'll be like, dude, this dude ain't working out. Right. You know, or, you know, even if he gets better, they'll come and they'll say, you know what, Andy? I told you this guy wasn't going to work out. He's starting to get better. Like, you know, everybody's very cool.

Yeah, it's cool, man. That is cool. But it's a man that is cool but uh it's it's a culture man and and it and when you're running a business and you're trying to build something with in like because i get this question a lot andy i own a business but i can't find any good employees you're not going to find them you're gonna have to fucking make them yeah and that's what being a leader is about well that's a great point because it's not about finding it's again it comes back to yourself maybe you're not finding good employees

because you're not a good boss that's right no that's the a hundred percent of the time that's the case if you're not finding good employees to work for you it's because you're not setting the right example for them and you're not a strong enough leader right that's the one thousand percent of the time that is the truth you know but to tell that to somebody because a lot of people think because they own a business that they're automatically a good leader right and that is not the case in most cases i would say that's like i i would say most people who own a business their sense of skill as a leader is way over inflated well and i think the reason they get into the business is because they're good at whatever that task is right Right. So they assume that, well, I can just run the business.

Right. When it's a completely different skill set that every person needs to learn. Dude, and being a leader is a skill. Absolutely. Like, a lot of people think you're a born leader. I was not a born leader, ever. Like, dude, I used to be the opposite of what I am now. That's how I know what the fuck works.

Right. Because I used to do it so wrong. Dude, I've ruined, I have ruined countless numbers of employees because of my poor leadership skills. I've had people come in that were good people that could have done great things with our company. And I've done not good things for them. Yeah. To the point where, you know, I might have affected the way that they go on the rest of their life. Absolutely. And I, dude, I live with that.

It sucks, you know, but those being aware enough to admit that is what's made me dedicate myself to becoming a leader and becoming the best leader that I can be. And, you know, and I still got a lot of room to improve. And I feel like, you know, for, for most people, I'm pretty strong in that aspect, but it wasn't something I started in business and was like, hey, I'm good at this. I have employees, so I'm a good leader. No, that's not it. Right.

You got to work at it. Just like it took you whatever you're selling or whatever your business is or whatever your skill is, just like it took you practice and time and effort and dedication to develop that, you're going to have to put the same effort, dedication, time, and will into becoming a businessman and a leader. We see this a lot with chiropractors and doctors and lawyers. They go to school for a specific skill, yet that skill is not going to build their business. I see this all the time with those kind of guys.

They should be teaching more business skills in those pathways, but they don't. And I have the guys who straight up kill it. They dedicate themselves to becoming business people on their own time. So they learn their skill to be a lawyer, and then they become a business person on their own skills. You know what I mean? I think Vaughn and I actually talked about this. We talked about communication as being one of probably the most important skills that you could ever have.

Right. And just learning how to communicate. Marketing obviously is a huge component. Right. Because there's product. I mean, when it comes to business, for example, you could have company A and company B and they can have the exact same product. Right.

And company A is going to far, far exceed what company B does just because of the way they communicate and the way they market and the way that they lead the business. Well, I mean, it's not the product. Yeah, no, it's not. You know, in fact, most products these days, most products are becoming commodities because we all have access to the same stuff. Exactly. We all have access to the communications. We can, we can get into Google. We can find out how to manufacture X, Y, Z. It doesn't matter if it's a fucking iPad, right? You know, how know, how many copies of the iPad are there out there? Yeah. You know what I mean?

Who knows? But Apple runs the market because, dude, they understand how to market it the right way. You know what I mean? And, you know, I just had this conversation earlier today. When I was on the phone, in fact, right before we started the podcast, I was talking to a guy who owned another supplement company. Who's a good friend of mine. And we were talking about how the industry is changing to where like, there's so many more companies and he wants to go to, uh, uh,

traffic conversion, which is out in San Diego. And we might, I might go with them, but, uh, we were talking about how developing the skills to actually, you know,

reach people and communicate and engage people is, is going to be the difference. Of course. It doesn't matter what your product is anymore as long as it's of good quality. Right. You know what I mean? Right. That's a given, right?

Right. It's got to be a good quality product. When I say it doesn't matter what your product is, like if your product sucks compared to the next one, it doesn't matter how much you market. Right. But most products at some level are becoming commodities. It's very rare to come out with a product that isn't. And it won't be long if it is. You know what I mean? Right. Until somebody rare to come out with a product that isn't. And it won't be long if it is, you know what I mean? Right. Until somebody else is coming out with whatever

it is. You know, it used to be back in the old days, you know, to, to develop these relationships, you had to get on a plane and fly to China or wherever it is. Spend hundreds of thousands. Yeah. And the secrets were not, nobody would tell the secrets. Now the secrets are on Google. You know what I mean? So. You were talking about this, I think, on one of your podcasts the other day. I think it was you. And you were saying, I could tell 100 people.

I could give them my business plan. I could give it to them. I said that on the Gary Vee podcast. Is that what it was? Yeah. I could give them my business plan. And regardless, at the end of the day, I could do that because nobody would take action on it. Dude, how many, Tyler, how long have you been working here?

Seven, eight years. How many times have you heard me say that? To action on it. Dude, Tyler, how long have you been working here? Seven, eight years. How many times have you heard me say that to our own company? Oh, God, every meeting. Right, every meeting. You know why? Because every meeting I have guys not taking action on our plan, and I'm trying to stress to them that it's not the plan, it's the action. It's the execution of it.

Right. Yeah, definitely. And that's the truth, dude. It is the truth. So, Ryan, I'm curious. I love your idea about identifying what it is you want to accomplish and then identifying the obstacles, I guess, if I interpret that. Yeah, so here's my question. That seems to apply very strongly to something you want to accomplish.

How do you apply it when guys are wanting to actually develop a certain character quality in their lives? Interesting. Well, I think part of what you've got to do is you've got to surround yourself by the right people. I mean, you've got to be around people who have the qualities and the characteristics and the things that you want. But I think it's the same thing. It's just being real about, hey, here's what I want to be. Here's who I want to be. Here's a leadership trait or quality that I want to build. Here's where I'm falling short. Here's where I'm good. How can I improve this? And at the end of the day, it's really hard because it's simple, but it's not easy. And the simplicity of it is reflection and planning and thought. Like you've got to sit down every day and think, what do I want? But I say that and guys are listening to this right now and they're saying to themselves, oh no, no, that's, I've tried that. That's, that's not what it takes. That's exactly what it takes. You've got to think about what you want every day and then you've got to go back and you've

got to review. Was I a good leader? I'm going to use that as an example. Was I a good leader? Did I lead people to where they wouldn't have been on their own? Where did I mess up? Where could I have done better? What didn't I recognize? All of those things that you should be asking yourself continually is the only way in my mind to start that process of improvement in any area of life. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. And guys, you know, you hear the term self-aware because it's become really hot. Exactly. That's, you know, and a lot of guys, I feel and guys, you hear the term self-aware because it's become really hot. Exactly, yeah. And a lot of guys, I feel like, hear that and they don't know what it means.

They don't get it, like self-aware. What he's saying is self-awareness. It's reflection. It's being able to check yourself. Just as you would look at somebody else and criticize them, only you're criticizing yourself. Right. You know what I mean? And when I say criticize, I don't mean that in a bad way.

No, be real with yourself. I mean that as just a checklist. Like, hey, did I do this? Did I do that? Did I do exactly what I wanted to do? And if the answer is no, then you've got to be able to say no. Right. You know what I mean? And the answer should always be no to a degree because that's the only way you're going to continue to improve. You know, what's really interesting is I watched your, the transformation video that you put out several weeks ago or a month or so ago. Man, that was a great video, by the way. Thank you. And I know that was probably hard. You said it was hard to do. Yeah. And I know three years ago, I started this health journey for myself as well. Yeah. And the hardest part of it was not going to the gym. It was not figuring out what

needed to be done. I already knew that stuff. You already know that stuff. The hardest part for me was jumping on the scale. Right. Oh, dude. Yeah. I knew that it was out of hand. I knew that it was a problem, but for some reason it was so difficult because that's the truth on that scale. Cause that number is glaring at you and saying, you're not doing what you need to be doing. That's right. And that's true for if you want to be a better leader or if you want to be a better dad, you've got to jump on the scale and say man i'm falling short in these areas that's right you've got to look at that number and realize right and unfortunately there's not a scale for for dad of course you know what i mean of course yeah like

you've got to make that up in your mind and like that's you know that's what a lot of younger guys like i get that question a lot from guys like what does self-aware mean i hear you say that i hear other guys say that what does that mean well that's what it means it means being able to evaluate yourself without a tool to that evaluates you you know like your weight right we've got tools right that we can statistically evaluate ourselves with other areas of our life i mean how much better would the world be if we had like we could stick our finger in like the monitor and said hey your dadness sucks but you know you're awesome here the fair where you hit it and it goes up to a certain level. The world would be a better place if we had those things, but the reality is we don't.

And the difference between people who really get places in life and the difference between people who end up in that same circle of mediocrity and frustration and disappointment and nagging is that the people who succeed have become very aware of what they're good at and what they're not and where they need to improve. And that's something that I would encourage anybody listening to work on daily. Right. And I mean, that's, you know, like a lot of people, like we talk, you know, you're talking to a 17, 18, 19 year old kid. What's it mean to be a man? Well, I can't grow this cool beard like you, you know, that has nothing to do with it, man. Nothing. No, it's just like beards. Yeah. Somebody asked me that the other day. They said, what role does facial hair have to do with masculinity? I said, none. It doesn't have anything to do with it. It's about what's inside of you and who you are and the actions you're taking and the

accountability and responsibility you have in your own life. And then also the level of accountability and responsibility that you have for those you have stewardship over. So I'll use you as an example. You've got 100 plus employees. That's your responsibility. Absolutely. And so your level of manliness is how well you're taking care of your employees. Yes, there is some personal stuff they need to do.

Right. But you brought them in. I brought my family in. That's a hard line to balance dude especially when you really care about your employees like sometimes they get themselves into shit that's not your fault it really isn't right you know what i mean and you have to draw that line and say well that's not my responsibility yep that they went out and yeah financially whatever yeah irresponsible you know what i mean um but again though go back to this is okay let's say somebody

goes out and financially irresponsible gets himself into trouble and you might say well throw up my hands that's not my fault no may not be your fault but you know what that doesn't serve you right so what serves you is to make sure that your guys are financially responsible because financially responsible employees are going to be better employees that's right but that's a kind of a unique and an interesting way to look at well then you gotta take it almost becomes a dad role right right for sure i mean that's that's the truth of being a leader and an entrepreneur is that you have to i man i've done things for guys who have appreciated it and i've gone the extra mile and i've done things for people

um that i no owner would ever do for other guys, and they basically ended up totally not getting the lesson and just rubbing it, basically screwing you in the long run. And as the owner of a business, you have to look at yourself and say, I did what I knew was right, you know what I mean? And somebody else didn't recognize that. I think, I think you and I talked about this maybe on the podcast where you came on our show. I was, we put a late night in Vegas for some work and I was with a business colleague and we drove

up to the drive-thru in and out and a guy knocks on the window and the guy was obviously homeless and my buddy rolls down the window and he gets out all the change out of his change drawer. He gets out his pocket, pulls out all the cash and he gives the guy the money. And the guy walks off. And I said something like, oh, you know, he's probably going to spend that money on drugs or booze or whatever else it may be. And my friend said this, I'll never ever forget it. And this is the lesson we're talking about today. He says, I'm not responsible and accountable for what he does with it. I'm going to be held accountable for what I do and the actions I take in the way in the person that I am. Right.

Man, that hit me so hard. It was like a slap across the face. I actually felt bad that I said what I said. Right. But it's true. We're responsible for our own lives. And yeah, you know what? You've probably been burned.

Right. I've been burned. But I can live with a clear conscience about it. Exactly. Which you can take to the grave. Right. And some of those other money and those type of things are not. Right.

And that's part of being a lot of people don't think about that when they think about being a ceo man or think about being an entrepreneur owning your own company you know um a lot of people ask all the time where do you get your drive from where do you get why are you still so hungry why are you still pushing so hard because dude i push hard right like you can ask anybody in this office man like it's i'm more intense than anyone i was thinking that as like because i know you had this big weekend trip and then coming back to this i'm like man he's gotta be we were talking about that right no but the thing is is that

people don't think about that they think about the fucking cars they think about the money and they think about themselves right but they don't realize is that dude it comes when you get to a certain point in time you're no longer working for those things you're working for things for your your guys you're working for their financial well-being you're pushing them for them and a lot of people don't realize that yeah you know they don't think about that aspect or they discount and they say oh you're full of shit you're just doing it so you can get more. You know what I mean? Right. But, you know, at a certain point in time, if you're a decent human, you know, and you start to become successful, you're going to try to push harder so you can get a better level of success for the people who have helped you. Right.

Yeah, you want them. The more they're successful. I mean, you can even talk about fathership when it comes to that. I coach my boys' football team, basketball team, and baseball teams. I don't have to do that stuff. I've got a thousand other things I could probably be doing. But I do it because I'm serving them. I want them to succeed. I want them to know I care about them.

I want them to see me present and available. I want to teach those little boys things that they wouldn't be able to learn on their own. That's my responsibility because I signed the dotted line that says, I want to be a dad. And so that's the responsibility that comes with it. You got to take it. Yeah, man. Hey, on that note, let me rewind for a second. You said one of the steps to developing your manhood was to be around really great people, the kind of man that you want to be. And yet you were telling me part of your story was growing up without a permanent father figure.

I know our mutual friend here in the studio, Larry Hagner of the Good Dad Project, has a similar story. What would you say to people who say, I just don't have anybody around me? Well, first and foremost, that's, that's absolutely not true. It's not true. There's so many people out there that want to help. I, again, going back to coaching, there's boys that are growing up without dads in their lives that I feel like I have this kind of

quasi father relationship with because I know what it's like. So get involved with coaching and those sorts of things. Not only be involved with coaching, but be a mentor. Get involved because there's other boys that need help that way. But this is also part of the selfish reason behind Order of Man and podcasts. I now have access to literally thousands and millions of people that are extremely, extremely successful like you guys. I would have never been able to connect with you if I didn't go out and take action. And I think that's a key point is that you got to start taking action. You got to start doing

some stuff. You got to start putting yourself out there. You got to start providing value for other people so that you can connect with those people as well. I learned a lot of the masculine lessons that I've learned through sports was a huge, huge component of that for me. And then in the military as well. But there are people around you and for you to say i just don't have that stuff is again a complete excuse it's a lie they're around you just got to open your eyes and you got to take the first step and you got to be willing to make a phone call occasionally and say hey andy you know what i know you're really good at this that's not something i'm great at can you give me some insights to be vulnerable you know what i mean you know a lot of people have that problem where they can't admit that

they need some help right you know what i mean like so they do nothing and then they're mad because because nobody helps them right you know right well and then it's also glorified that's a hard thing for for a man to do i think for a lot of guys i mean a lot of guys you have to be a really secure dude to be able to say hey look I don't get this and I need some help. That doesn't make you a pussy. That makes you a man. Right. For sure.

That's what guys misinterpret. You know, like these dudes that walk around all bowed out like they're all tough and shit. I don't need anybody, blah, blah, blah. Dude, that's the most insecure way you could possibly be. This is natural, too. I mean, you go back thousands of years. What did we have? We had tribes.

Why did we have tribes? To protect ourselves, to expand, to grow, grow to build to take care of each other and we did these things but now we get into this almost lone wolf type thing where it's noble or it's virtuous and the media portrays it i don't see that you go at it alone it's awesome no man i see that as weakness i i agree i identify that attitude immediately. Like, I see it immediately. Right. Like, this dude is weak. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Yeah. You know? What's even more incredible, and I think super encouraging to guys that are in that situation, is that, like, people like you and Larry, I mentioned Larry, in many cases, the guys that grew up without dads or without some male figure are way better men than the guy that some guys that did, you know? I mean, so it's not like, it's not like you're automatically like, you know, consigned to a life of mediocrity of manhood if you don't have some sort of male

figure in your life. Of course. You know, it's going to take action on your part. It's like, Andy, you've often said that sometimes it's, it's actually an asset to not have something because you have to work harder for it. It's always an asset to have adversity. Right. Right. It's always an asset to be the underdog. We talked about that last night too. Yeah.

Yeah. It's always good. I mean, you look at the most successful people on the planet are the people who have overcome the most. The people who didn't overcome anything, you haven't heard about them. And the reason you haven't heard about them is because they're not worth anything. Right. Right.

They don't have any lessons to impart, any wisdom to share with you. And dude, most people look and, you know, and I spoke about this recently as well. They look for the easiest way to go. When in reality, if you're presented with two paths and you got one that's easy and one that's hard, you should take the hard path. And people say, oh, Henry, why the fuck would I do that? Because that's what's going to make you stronger in the long run. And you have to adopt that mentality that I'm trying to win long term.

I'm not trying to just get by today. It's the short game versus the long game. Yeah, the easy path is good for the next hour or the next year. What about the next 40 years? That's right. And, dude, everybody's guilty of it. I mean, I'm guilty of it. I mean, dude, I'm work. Like we talked about the transformation thing. We're doing this big thing at first form right now. My transformation starts today about, you know, being real with yourself, you know, like I've,

how many times over the last two years when I've gained 60 pounds, did I take the fucking easy road? Of course, every time, right? You know what I i'm saying but i know i took the easy road every time and i could be honest with myself and say dude now you fucked yourself and you're gonna have to go you're gonna have to take the really hard road now yeah and that's that could go for your physical it could go for your financial it could go for your relationships it could go for anything you know and we all none of us are 100 strong percent strong a hundred percent of the time. In fact, I would argue that everybody has their areas. They struggle and everybody has their areas. They need help. And I think being a great man is being able to say, Hey, look, I am really having trouble in this area and trying to find somebody that is stronger than them in that area to help work,

help them work through there. There is not, it's not appealing or attractive or beneficial in any way to be the guy who is everything to everybody. And, um, dude, we all, all of us, we look at that dude and we're like, yeah, right, dude. Yeah. You know, you know, he's full of crap. All of us know that all women know that women are like, dude, this guy's what the fuck, you know what I mean? So like the macho thing is not – like I want to clarify this because a lot of people think being a man is being like overly macho. Right. I mean what do you say about that? Yeah, no, it's not.

It all comes back to, again, just taking ownership of your life, finding vulnerabilities, improving those things. I think the world – I don't want to say conspiring, but I think the world wants to teach you things. And so some people say world, but if you have faith, you might say God, but somebody's transpiring to teach you things. And you're going to learn the lesson at some point. And if you keep making the mistake, or you don't find people to help you with that lesson, or you can't figure it out yourself, you're going to keep repeating those lessons over or those mistakes over and over and over again. And the only difference is, is that that problem compounds the longer you delay it, right? The longer that you wait. So address it now. And this is what it comes down to being a man. Be a man, right? We hear that term man up. Man up doesn't mean the macho thing that you're talking about. Man up means face that challenge head on, look at it straight in the eye,

figure out what you need to do to overcome that obstacle. And when I say man up, that's what I'm talking about. Right. Right. And realize, too, like man up, you're not going to be great at something when you start it. When you start a business, you're not going to be, you know, Steve Jobs. When you start a workout program, you're not going to be Arnold Schwarzenegger. Right.

You have to be able to accept, you know, and humility, be humble enough to say, you know what, I'm just starting out, but I'm going down this path. Right. You know, and, you know, we talk about the different traits that make and create respect for a man. Dude, being humble and saying, hey, I am just starting this, but I'm going to do this. Dude, that creates a million times more respect

from the people around you than the guy who's like, oh, dude, I'm not doing that because of blah. Or I'm going to do that. I'm going to be the best or blah, blah, blah. That's stupid. You know what I mean? The typical man shit that a lot of guys, I'm saying quote unquote man shit. Right. You know, there's a, uh, there's a Latin phrase that

I, I really, really like, and it is, I will find a way or make one. And if finding a way means that I have to be humble and reach out to Andy or reach out to this guy or reach out to this person, or I need to put aside my pride. Right. Find a way or make one. Whatever you have to do to overcome the task at hand is what's going to distinguish you as being a real man. Yeah. Yeah, man.

It's a good thing to think about. I know, like, you asked me this on your podcast, you know, what does it mean to be a man? So I'm going to ask you that, too, because you've heard this from countless numbers of guests. You've heard this perspective from, you know, on every podcast Ryan asks at the end. In all fairness, he gives you the hour to think about it. I do. He asked me in the beginning, all right, I'm going to ask you this question because I want you to think about it.

And the question is, what does it mean to be a man and and i had honestly and i was honest i had never really thought about that you know i i never i never thought about it like i don't i don't know why i just didn't think about it yeah um but hearing the the the perspectives that you've heard and hearing and developing your own perspective, what does it mean to be a man? I think we've been talking about it for an hour or whatever it is today. So accept responsibility for yourself,

become self-aware of your actions and what you want to be. And then the other component of that though is taking care of those that you signed up to take care of. Right. So for me, for example, I signed up to take care of my wife. Right. I signed up to take care of my kids.

I signed up to take care of my employees. I signed up to take care of some kids in my neighborhood. Right. And so part of me being a man is being responsible for them. Fulfilling those obligations. Absolutely. Right. Being responsible for them. Fulfilling those obligations. Absolutely. And we have a term in our church, magnify your calling, which is to not just sneak by with the minimum required effort, but to do everything you absolutely can with all of your heart and all of your energy to make yourself a success, your family a success, your business a success.

That's what it requires. Right. Yeah. I think another thing I like, you know, is fulfilling your obligations. You know, I think keeping your word is such a huge part that people lack these days. I think I would add that to that. You know, if you say you're going to do something, do it. Right.

You know, if there's some reason that you can't do it and you can't do what you said, make it right somehow. You know, I think fulfilling obligations is a big part of, and we talked about this last night too. I mean, your ultimate goal, tell people a little bit about your ultimate goal, about what you're wanting to do with Order of Man. My goal is to create the world's largest fraternity. I don't care if you call it a fraternity or a society or an organization.

And we're not talking about pounding beers and like paddling each other on the butt. No, no. We're talking about guys getting together virtually, being part of this community, getting involved, being vulnerable, being willing to share what's working, being willing to share what isn't working, gaining knowledge and power and strength from what everybody else has gone through, and supporting and uplifting each other. Right. Could you imagine if we cared about our neighbors and we cared about our community and we cared about this country as much as we care about ourselves sometimes? Right.

I mean, we'll do things for ourselves, but we won't do things for our neighbor who happens to be struggling with something. Right. Why is that? And if we can uplift that person, then that person is going to uplift the next person. That person is going to uplift the next person.

It's going to be insane. It's going to be crazy. It's going to be awesome. Can I also add that there are seriously practical economic benefits from that? Somebody just told me the other day that right now in 2016, we spend millions of dollars hiring and employing social workers whose sole job is basically to check on old people to make sure that they haven't died because they live alone. 50 years ago, we didn't even have to do that. Why?

Because people checked on each other. People did the right thing. Yeah, they did the right thing. They checked on each other. So, I mean, it's not just the right thing to do, you know, being a good man. I mean, there are economic benefits. There are, you know, relational benefits, all sorts of things. Dude, the economic benefits go far beyond what you're talking about, okay?

Being a good person, being a good man, and like if you're a woman, be a good woman, okay? It's not just – No. These principles apply to being a good woman too. So if you're a woman and you're listening, it's the same thing for you guys. We're talking about core value principles of being a good person. The economic benefits of doing that, that's what I've been talking about for years, okay? It's when you bring value, you get value back, all right?

And if you can come out and help, you know, and every time I say this, man, you know, it's not about selling, it's about helping. Dude, people do business with people that they like. They do business with people that they respect. They do business with friends. And when you go out in your community and let's say you're a small business owner and every big business started in a small business. So if your goal is to own a big business, you know, this doesn't start somewhere. Right. You've got to start at grassroots.

And, you know, the community support you create is not going to be from asking them for support. It's going to be from contributing to each and every one of those people in every way that you can over the course of time. And a lot of people don't put that together. You know, it's doing things, helping somebody move, helping them start their business, giving them a shout out on your social media. I mean, you know, going to the hospital when their kid was born, caring about the people around you and immediately in your community. If you want to start a small business, that's where it starts. So, I mean, the economic benefits of being a good person and creating value and doing

the right thing, it's not a, it's not the icing on the cake. It's the foundation that you're building your whole entire life upon. Well, they go along the same thread of that. I think when we talk about the economic implications of, of what it is we're talking about today, I think it's easy for us to by default and naturally go to less people be in prison and there'll be less welfare and things like that. But what you're talking about here is that if I don't serve these people, who is not going to create a business? Who is that person not going to be able to hire? What problem is that person not going to be able to solve because you weren't willing

to step up for your neighbor and do what they needed help with. You're not just eliminating cost because we have now lost opportunity costs, which is what is the potential of a human? Unlimited if you can allow them to tap into it. A lot of people hear what I'm saying and they think, oh, Andy, well, that's just manipulation. You're just doing that so it serves yourself. No, because it serves everybody. You know what I mean? And everybody, you know know we call them the asterisk holes everybody can find fault with everything right like there's always an asterisk to everything and there's gonna be people who hear what i just said a minute ago and they're gonna be like oh you're just manipulating isn't that just manipulation you should want to do it without expecting anything in return yeah you don't expect

anything in return i'm just telling you it comes right you know by default right it's just a principle right goes around comes around karma i mean you call it whatever you want you know i've just seen too many things in my life that i believe that karma works itself out a hundred percent of the time yes i i just you know some people are like oh that's that's a buddhist belief or whatever it It's Buddhist, right? I don't know. All I know, it's become an American term. Let's be real. People say, you know, oh, you know, it's hocus pocus. It's this, it's that.

Dude, I've never seen somebody ever, ever, ever who's successful long term that doesn't continually do more than what they get in return. I just haven't seen it. Right. You know, and people say, what about Donald Trump? Do you know how many fucking people that guy's helped in his life you know how much money that dude's given to charity you know how many causes that guy's built and dude that guy's helped more people than you or i or anything that anybody that listening to this will ever do to help people and and they said how many people he's hired and how many how much taxes

he's paid and all much taxes he's paid and all of the things that he's, yeah. Right, I agree. And people don't think about that. They see him driving around in a private jet and they think, oh, rich fuck. No, that dude's done more good than you'll ever do. Times a million.

But even just strip that. And I know we get a lot of people that don't like Donald Trump, but I'm just using that as an example. Take any business person, all right? Take Steve Jobs, take Bill Gates, any that as an example. Take any business person. Take Steve Jobs. Take Bill Gates. Any of these guys.

It's all the same. They do way more than what they get back. Right. But even just strip out the—you talk about the jet. Even just strip that out for a minute. Think about that concept. He's got a jet that has probably two pilots. Somebody built that jet and fed their family because they built that jet right and then

the fuel and what the taxes that were paid from that and where did he go well he went to this business to help this business grow and and that business and he wrote it by the way he wrote a check to help them exactly so i mean look man people see things the way they want to see him right you know what i mean but yeah i know i know how i choose to see him and i choose to see him from a winner's viewpoint yeah you know if you can choose how you're going to view it. That's right. That way. Right. Like, look, look at all the good this person's doing. Yeah. And do they not deserve to live a life of whatever it is they choose? I think, I think people like that deserve it. And earned it. Guys, if you want to check out this episode on the website, it's themfceo.com forward slash p44.

And you can also, of course, listen to the episodes on Stitcher, SoundCloud, and iTunes. And I have to ask, I want to ask you a really practical question, Ryan. As you pursue this whole endeavor of becoming the best possible man, what are, I mean, just literally give me specific examples. What are some resources, like your favorite books, favorite websites, not just for being a man, but being like a great dad or a father, which is the same thing, a dad and a father. But like throw out some books, throw out some websites. It's not the same thing.

That's a good point. It's not the same thing. It's not the same thing. Wow. Anybody could be a fucking dad. That's true. Not everybody could be a father. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's not the same thing. Wow. Anybody could be a fucking dad. That's true. Not everybody could be a father. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Not the same thing. That's a good point. That's a good point. I like that. Let's see. Resources. Or maybe the other way around, considering how you want to define it.

However you want to look at it. Right. We know what you mean. Right. Yeah. Right. Anybody could put a seed up the old tube, you know? Right.

But not everybody could raise somebody to be a man. Exactly. That's what I'm somebody to be a man. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Resources. Man, that's good. Putting me on the spot. You know, I read so much.

I'm trying to think if there's one particular book. Just consume as much as you can. He told me last night his main resource is the MSCO project. That's true. Well, I just thought that one without saying. But what he did tell me after you left and we were driving home is he kind of fast forwards through your stuff to my little. Oh, he does?

Yeah. Yeah. Just the beginning of the end there. Yeah. That makes sense. I'm just an idiot who uses too many F-bombs. You know what? I think the best resource is just find the one that works for you.

Now, I'm not going to give anything specific, but there's so much information about there and you've got to consume it. And we don't consume enough. We've got to read books. We've got to listen to podcasts. We've got to connect with other people and just make time in your day, carve out time in your day to read, to listen to podcasts, to connect with guys that are important to you that you want to connect with. I promise your life is going to be enriched when you do that. And your buddy here has a pretty good podcast too. He does. That's right. The Good Dad Project, Larry Hagner. So if you guys haven't checked that out, I definitely recommend that. I would like to add to that though, because I think a lot of people only consume information they agree with. I think it's very important to consume information

that you necessarily might not think you agree with for the purpose of growing. You need to be able to question your own beliefs. And this goes into being self-aware. You need to hear other people's opinions, see where they're coming from, because everybody has your own beliefs and this goes into being self-aware you know you need to to hear other people's opinions you know see where they're coming from because everybody has their own worldview and their own perspective of where you know where they lie and how things are and just listening to shit that you only agree with is not going to force you to grow right it's important to consume you know if you're a conservative thinker, you know, go out and read some more liberal-minded things. If you're a liberal thinker, go out and read some more conservative-minded things. You might not agree with all of it, but try to understand the perspective because that's going to force growth.

And I think, you know, I mean, you just look on Facebook and everybody's identifying. Let's just take politics for the example. Everybody identifies. I'm Republican, I'm Democrat. Fuck each other. You're wrong, you're wrong. And they scream and yell at each other. Dude, you're not considering the perspectives that those people have, where they were raised, what they were taught, how they grew up.

And the reality is we're all on the same team. So when you try to only take in the information that you agree with, all you're doing is furthering your ignorance, in my opinion. Right. You know what I mean? Because nobody's 100% right. Everybody has bits of pieces that are right. Everybody has bits of pieces that they don't know that they probably feel like are right. Sure. You know what I mean? Yep. And so, you know, what you're saying in personal development, you know, take time every day to listen to a podcast, listen to a, to read a book, to, to, to dedicate yourself. And I, I find that hour, you know, a day minimum, um, is like one of the major differences that separates successful people from unsuccessful. Um, you know, when I ask unsuccessful, not unsuccessful,

okay. But people who want to be successful that aren't there yet, you know, they're like, man, I'm doing this and that. Well, how many books are you reading? What are you watching? What are you doing? Oh, I'm watching TV. Yeah. You know, I'm watching this.

I'm not reading anything. I don't like reading. You know, that's the shit they say. And it's a, you know, if you're looking for a secret, you know, being able to dedicate that time to personal development on a regular basis and different perspectives makes you stronger and that's going to make you more educated, which is going to make you more valuable. So, you know, to you guys listening out there, like to your buddy, like who you said lost $20,000, you know, like I'm, I'm, I was making fun of him earlier, but the reality is he, he's letting something that he doesn't like

keep him from learning. Right. You know what I mean? And think how ignorant that is. Yeah, absolutely. You know what I mean? No question. Yeah, I totally agree with that. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you won't learn something.

Right. Right. Yeah. What I've experienced, even if it's something you don't agree with, you're going to do one of two things. You're going to walk away with a new perspective. That's right. And some new information. It's going to reinforce your perspective.

Reinforce your position. Right. And both is a win. Right, exactly. You're going to walk away with a new perspective and some new information or reinforce your position. And both is a win. Right, exactly. You're one is a win. You're not going to lose time by spending it listening to other sides' ideas. Right, right. Which I would add, I mean, this is what you're saying. Real men don't get easily offended.

They can sift through the good and the bad. They can respond to something that they disagree with and they're not threatened. Well, I told you guys about the first time I heard your show. Like I turned your show and I remember exactly where I was. I saw this show on New and Noteworthy. I'm like, oh, let me listen to this. And I pulled it up. I'm like, what? Who is this guy? Right, right, right. Is this guy for real? Right. And I listened to it. I listened to it. I'm like, yeah, he's kind of right with this stuff. I listened to a little bit more. I'm like, yeah, right. This guy's right on. And so, yeah, exactly. Well, and the thing is, is like, you know, like, let's say, let's just use the cursing

because that seems to be the thing people, they don't like that. Some, I mean, most people listening like it, but, you know, or at least, you know, it doesn't offend them. Right. But let's, let's be real. Okay. That's how I speak on microphone in, in front of 150 Mormons. It doesn't matter.

That's who I am, and that's how I speak. And if that gets in the way of your being able to learn the lessons that we talk about here with our guests, that's something that's going to keep you back, not forward. You know what I mean? And you have to look past certain things sometimes. You know, maybe you don't like the way somebody runs their business. Maybe you don't like the posts they make online. You know, there's people that I see post on the internet all the time that I don't like.

But there's still lessons to be learned there. You know what I mean? The old saying is, even a broken clock is right twice a day i i i live by that it's it's it's even people that you think are fundamentally wrong or broken they're still going to be right sometimes well no and like i i get this a lot too people like oh dude you're cursed just to be cool no that's just how i speak yeah that literally is you know and uh you might be a you know like emily's dad like emily's dad is one of the best men that I know. Dude, he's a hardworking guy.

He's responsible. He sets a great example. You know, he doesn't curse. I still curse. And he'll curse sometimes, but it's like when he's really mad, you know. But the point is, you know, he doesn't say,, Oh Andy, you're a shithead for cursing. He just says, you know,

that's, that's, I choose not to. And that's how you choose to. And that's just it. And you don't need to change it for me. I don't curse either. And I don't need to change it for you.

Right. Exactly. And both of us can have a great conversation. Right. Exactly. But you know, when you, cursing is just the example we're using,

you know, a lot of people look at way more petty things than that. Like a lot of people won't listen to people because like, and let's just be real. They won't listen to a guy speaking because he's black and they think he's a liberal or they won't listen to a guy. They won't listen to quote unquote rich white guy, Donald Trump, because I'm black. Right.

You know what I mean? Right. How much are we leaving on the table by doing that as Americans? Yeah. You know, it's, it's, it's ridiculous. So I would encourage anybody listening to this, you know, even if, you know, even if it's something you think you might not agree with, don't be afraid to consume something anyway, because it's going to help either. Like you said, it's going to reinforce your perspective or it's going to sit and makes

you say, Hey, if you're man enough. Yeah. Humble enough. Right. It's going to make you say, Hey, you know what? I hadn't really thought about that. I hadn't really thought about what it's going to make you say, hey, if you're man enough. Yeah, humble enough. Right. It's going to make you say, hey, you know what? I hadn't really thought about that. I hadn't really thought about what it's like to be somebody who was raised this way or raised that way. I hadn't considered that. Because we're all different, man. We all see things different. Right. Ryan, as we approach the home stretch, I want to go way back to something you said earlier and just kind of piggyback on it, and I want to hear what you have to say about this.

So you said that one of the things you tell the guys all the time is, you know, figure out what you want and then, you know, go do it. And, of course, get this all the time from young guys, especially young guys. I don't know what I want. And one of the things that I've told a lot of young guys that I've, you know, met and been friends with over the years is, dude, you don't need the plan for your life, but you need a plan. Right. You agree? Totally agree. So I get a question a lot of times, what does order man look like in five years or what does it look like in

10 years? And if I'm being truthful, the answer is, I don't know. I don't know what it's gonna look like next week, let alone in five years. I know what I want it to look like. I know what I want to do and I'm willing to work towards it. But you know what? Something's going to happen this afternoon or tomorrow. That's going to change my perspective on the way I run my business or the way my family operates or whatever it may be. And I've got to be willing to adapt, but you're never going to figure out what you want out of life unless you're willing to take at least one step, right? Just take the first step. That skill that you're talking about, that is entrepreneurship. Okay. What you're willing to take at least one step, right? Just take the first step. That skill that you're talking about, that is entrepreneurship. Yes.

Okay? And this is an entrepreneurship show. Today we talk about some culture issues. But what you just said, this is the perfect example of how the principles of entrepreneurship apply to your life. Okay? Entrepreneurship is no different than what you just said. It is figure out a plan, move towards that plan, apply to your life. Okay. Entrepreneurship is no different than what you just said is

figure out a plan, move towards that plan. And along the way, things are going to happen and you're going to adjust your path left or right or up or down to get towards where you want to go. And just moving towards where you want to go, that plan that you think on the first day will evolve into something else in two years. the first day will evolve into something else in two years. And then it'll evolve into something else two more years. So to say, this is exactly where I want to be is okay, but you have to understand that that's going to change and your path is not going to be straight.

I think people think that about starting a business that they need to have this perfect plan and this perfect path. It's going to have no road bumps and I'm going to go from A to Z perfectly and it just doesn't work that way and doesn't work that way with your life either right things are going to happen you're like somebody's going to die somebody's going to get pregnant you know somebody's going to you're going to have a sickness you're going to have this you're going to have this. You're going to have that. Your job as a human is to pick the life that you want, not just the business you want, and to go that way. And when things don't work out the way that you want, you make adjustments. And that is the same in your life.

It's the same in entrepreneurship. And that's why I love entrepreneurship so much, and that's why I love speaking about it because it ties in to everything about your life. You know, it's the exact same parallel. And I don't think a lot of people think of, oh, a key component of masculinity is adaptability. But that's exactly what you're saying. Just the ability to. Adaptability is the key component to life. Yeah.

It's being able to accept change, to make change, and to move forward regardless of what those changes are. Same thing in a business. And I would add to that, too, decisiveness. I think a lot of people out there are just unwilling and afraid. That's why they never start. Exactly. It's like, well, should I do this or this? Pick one and do it.

And if it doesn't work out, pick the other one tomorrow. But be decisive about it and start moving forward. Right. It's paralysis by analysis. We talk about and start moving forward. Right. It's paralysis by analysis. We talk about that all the time. I can't decide what I want, so I choose nothing. The paradox choice. Ryan, you told me last night that you're a Mormon. Sometimes religious people have a real problem with this because they're so paralyzed. They want to know what, quote unquote, God's will is. And one of the monks that I knew in my life had a great saying. He's like, sometimes God wants us to swing at a wild pitch. I agree with that. You know, here's a perspective I have about, so yes, I am Mormon, and here's a perspective

I have about God, is that we hear things like fate or God has a plan for us, and although I recognize God's hand in my life, I also know that God has already given me every tool that I need to be successful, and now it's my responsibility to utilize the tools that I've been blessed with in a way that's going to enrich my life the way that I see fit, because he has a faith in me that I'll do it the way that's best for me and my family, which is a perspective I think a lot of people think, if it's God's will. I don't subscribe to that if it's God's will. No, that's hiding. Yes, I agree.

We've talked about that before. Passivity, that's an excuse for passivity. And I mean, I definitely believe that, you know, I in my own life try to seek God's will, but you don't use that as an excuse for doing nothing. God wants you to be happy and be successful, so he's giving you the tools. Now use them. I think I've said this on the podcast before.

I know I've said it to you before. Dude, you're a dad. You have a son. Do you not want your son to be as successful as possible? It's the same thing with God. Of course. Period. Now, if you go around and spend your success on hookers and cocaine,

he's probably not going to be real happy about it. Exactly. But the truth of the matter is, is we're responsible for us. And this is where I get really pissed off by people that shit on success. And there, you cannot fucking help people unless you're successful first. Yeah.

You know, Oh, I can go make sandwiches for the homeless. Well, you know what? If you were successful, you could start a sandwich factory for the homeless. Right.

All right. So don't give me that shit about... Or spend all day doing it because you've got the money to do it. This is really... I'm actually not being sarcastic. This is what I love about this show. We cover every conceivable topic and show how the basic principles that we're talking about apply to everything. It doesn't matter

if we're business or relationships or religion. And that's the nature of most of my speaking engagements. You know, if you guys get a chance to come hear me speak, you're not going to hear me speak about making a trillion dollars. You're going to hear me speak about how to use the principles of that will not only help you become successful in that area, but also how all the other issues tie together as a whole.

Yeah. And that's not a message I've heard many people talk about. Yeah. So, or anybody. Well, how you want to, how you want to wrap up boss? Uh, you know what? First of all, thanks for making the trip in Ryan. I appreciate it, man.

Yeah. If you guys have not listened to his podcast, you need to be listening to it. Uh, order a man.com. What are your social media contacts? Uh, you can find us on Facebook. I'm pretty active on Facebook, active on Instagram, both at order of man.com. What are your social media contacts? You can find us on Facebook. I'm pretty active on Facebook, active on Instagram, both at order of man.

And he's telling me how to get him on Snapchat. So we'll, we'll probably be looking at that here pretty quick. You have a, you have a closed Facebook group. I do. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. So if you request access to that, we can get you access, but we're having, we've got 1800 guys in there right now and we're having some amazing conversations about what it means to be a man. There are, however, exceptions. If you have ovaries, you cannot be in that Facebook. This is true. This is exclusive to men. Yes. It is.

So you're horrible. I am a horrible person. You know what, though? We talked about this on the way over here. It's because you're Mormon. Yeah, that's right. It's because of the Mormon guys. Yeah, that's right. I've got to be careful, because that's right. I gotta be careful. Cause that's, there's a lot of misconceptions. And I'm surprised nobody's asked me how many wives I have yet. Cause I get that question. We already asked Sean Whalen. Okay. So you, so you've already addressed that. I have one wife. That was the joke. That's all I can handle. So you Mormon and you women. Um, actually, can you take a second

before we wrap up just to tell a little bit about the online group? I think guys would be very interested, excuse me, men would be very interested in learning a little bit more about your elite mastermind group. Yeah, you bet. So we've got elite mastermind. We do a virtual weekly call, and we talk about anything from how to develop and build relationships to how to master yourself to fitness. I mean, everything that's going to be important to men, we talk about. We have accountability partners. I call battle buddies because I was in the military

and that's the term we use. So you're actually assigned to another member of the mastermind that you hold each other accountable. You're talking about goals. You're talking about the things that you want and you're making sure each other are doing the things that you said you were going to do. And then we have daily challenges as well.

So that's Iron Councils, our elite mastermind. Is that closed right now? No, it's open. It's open. So if somebody's interested, I'd love to have them take a look at that. You can learn more. It's order a man.com slash iron council. And you can learn a little bit more about it there. Um, you know, I think just to wrap it up, uh, guys, you know, if you're listening to this and you're hearing what we're talking about we talk about

taking responsibility being self-aware doing the right thing you know don't discount the value of that because I know like when I was a young man

I would hear stuff like that and I'd be like oh that's bullshit you know what I mean I'm telling you as the most cynical like like I've gone from somebody that I was very not proud to be now looking back. I thought I was the shit back then, you know, cocky young business guy who thought he knew everything. You know, my business didn't grow until I started understanding the things that we talked about today. You know, I went 10 years, um, making the first three years making $0 the next seven years

making $695 a month. Okay. And a lot of guys are like, wow, that's grinding. That's grinding. And it is true. It is grinded. But let me tell you the reason that was, and the reason it took so long is because I was not man enough to be self-aware and take care of the things and realize the things that we talked about on this one show. So if you're a young cocky dude and you think you're a baller and you're posting pictures of fucking dollar bills and shit on your Instagram, I'm like, dude, if you're that guy, dude, you need to check yourself right now because I'm going to tell you, not only is it going to make you a better person, but it's going to make you more money and more success in the long run. And it's going to start today. You know, I wasted a lot of my life, man. I mean, dude,

I've never been a bad person. I've just been a person who was very bullheaded, very stuck in my ways, very, um, you know, focused on what I thought the way it should be. And I spent a lot of my life beating my head against the wall because I wasn't open to the things that we talked about today. So, you know, before you discount this episode and think, Oh man, this episode, blah, blah, blah. You probably need to listen to it three or four more times and really let it sink in. So, um, with that being said, guys, I do want to close today with a thank you for all of you guys listening. Um, you know, I want to ask you for something too. I don't ask for things very often, but I want to ask for something today. If you think that the MSCO project has helped you,

because I get a lot of emails saying this. If you think that the MSCO project has helped you or helped change your perspective or given you value in any way, I would ask that you please tell one other friend about it. Okay. Not tag other friends, make a phone call, shoot a text, you know, tell one person. That's all I ask. We're trying to start a movement. We're trying to do a lot of good things for people. And, um, and it's going to start with you guys being our soldiers. So thank you so much for the support. Thank you for all, all everybody that's listening right now. Hopefully I'll get to meet you all sometime in the near future.

And that's it.