REAL AF with Andy Frisella - Lewis Howes' Mask of Masculinity, with Andy Frisella - MFCEO180

Episode Date: October 10, 2017

My buddy Lewis Howes wrote a book called The Mask of Masculinity. He joined me in the studio and we talked about how getting honest and transparent and dealing with your sh*t will help you succeed. We also talked about how being vulnerable doesn't make you a p*ssy, but actually helps you be even more driven and competitive. This is one of my favorite episodes ever.  Listen and learn.

What is up guys you're listening to the MFCEO project I'm Andy I'm your host and I am the motherfucking CEO guys today we have an awesome podcast for you before we get started gotta hit you with some housekeeping guys you know we have the testimonial contest going on i've been getting hit up with messages uh about that you're sending the emails in and they're not going through that's because you haven't followed fucking directions here's the deal one minute video not 103 not 107 not seven not ten one minute sent to vaughn. What's the address? Testimonials at the MFCEO.com. All right. Testimonials at the MFCEO.com. A lot of you guys have got it. Some of you guys missed it. We got to make it happen. The winners will be flown out here for a VIP weekend or VIP day. They will be putting up at the Four Seasons. We're going to hang out. We're going to do a podcast. We're going to do some personal mentorship.

We're going to go to dinner. We're going to eat some red meat. If you're vegan, you can't come. I'm just kidding. You can't come. Maybe. But as always, with that being said, I'm joined by my co-host, Vaughn, the pastor of disaster. What's up, dude?

Things are incredible, man man I spent a couple hours well the downside of it was I was in the emergency room with my wife last night but the upside of it were you working or you were there because she was sick both oh yeah no I'm saying was she working no I'm sorry no yes my wife's a doctor but no she was in there for like because she was your She's your sugar mama. Vaughn ain't no dummy. No, I'm gainfully employed thanks to the MFCEO. No, but dude, I started going through some of those testimonials, and it's an interesting experience. I'm glad Lewis is here today because I was getting choked up. He just fucked up my intro.

By the way, we have an amazing guest here. As you guys know, my good friend Lewis Howes just wrote an awesome book called The Mask of Masculinity. We're going to dive into that topic today. So thanks for fucking up my intro. I appreciate it. No, no. I'm always happy to oblige. But no, basically, I mean, we got some amazing people that follow the project.

Oh, dude, it's awesome. Some testimonials. On the other hand, we also have people who, in spite of all warnings, literally send us hour-long videos. Hey, they won't win. Yeah.

But that's okay. We appreciate you anyway. 60 seconds, right? We do appreciate it. Dude, you saw my, you saw the, you just snapped it. That was hilarious, man.

I'm huge on following directions amazing so on the front of the door so i can't stand people that can't follow directions it bothers me to my core like if i have an employee and i said this is the way it's done that's the way it's done like i i'm all for like thinking and and doing what you think is right and this and that but there's certain things that just need to be done the right way and one of them is in my book that when i say one minute video i don't mean 101 no i mean one and the other thing is no soliciting on the fucking door out front do you get a lot of salesmen that come here we did you did until i changed the message wow everybody puts that message says no soliciting that nobody pays attention to right and then you know so we just changed it

to say uh salesman seen by appointment only if you if you walk into this facility without an appointment we won't do business with you out of principle because you can't follow directions and if you think about it is that not true right yeah yeah you can't follow directions make a appointment and we'll be glad to meet with you right but if you can't if you're not willing to make that extra effort how are you going're not willing to make that extra effort, how are you going to be willing to make the extra effort to do whatever it is that you do for our company? So that being said,

I had to credit the kid who sent in, he followed the directions, one minute videos, but he was so impacted by the project that he sent 10 one minute. So you know what? That's thinking outside the box. Yeah. I actually kind of respect that.

It's like multiple votes. It's like, we didn't say you couldn't do that that's true so hey that's still within the bounds of directions yeah exactly i respect that yeah all right so lewis it's been i don't know about a year since we've yes been on this podcast we did your podcast which turned out great yeah people loved it uh gold coast took a clip of that video and went viral. It was pretty cool. That's great.

So thank you for having me on. Of course. I love the show. If you guys don't listen to Lewis's podcast, it's one of the, it's probably the only other podcast I listen to consistently. Well, it's the only podcast I listen to consistently because I don't even listen to this one.

Honestly, I can't think. I don't listen to my own, though, either. So it's hard after you record to listen back to it. If I listen, even when I watch my videos, I'm like, God, I sound like such't think. I don't listen to my own, though, either. So it's hard after you record to listen back to it. I was, if I listen, even when I watch my videos, I'm like, God, I sound like such an idiot. I know. You know, but.

Louis goes, I know. Dude. No, it's like hearing yourself. I feel the same way. No, it's like hearing yourself on an answering machine. Like back when they had answering machines and you had to record the voicemail. Right.

And then you play it back. You're like, oh, I sound disgusting. I sound fat. I sound retarded. I sound this. I sound that. And like play it back you're like oh i sound disgusting i sound fat i sound retarded i sound this i sound that and like dude you're you were oh it's just better just to do it and like never look at it again yeah you know what i mean yeah uh so that's what i that's what i try to do so within that time you have written and we've talked about this a number of times privately but today we're going to talk about it and basically embrace and dig into the topic of vulnerability with males.

And it's popular today, and we see it all the time. Dude's got a big old beard, and he's got some some muscles and he's like, be a real man. And we've seen this. This has been a societal thing for since the beginning of time. Right. About men being afraid of letting people know that they have issues, too. They have things that have bothered them, too. And, you know what? Before we get into the details.

But why did you see a need for this book because it's a little bit outside it's a lot outside it's a lot different than what the other book was it's a lot it's a lot different than pretty much everything i do in terms of like online marketing and business and everything else um it came out of a need for myself when i turned 30 i was going through a lot of pain, a lot of stress, a lot of pain. I, I'd moved to LA for a girl and ended up being an up and down relationship for the next eight months where I didn't know how to end the relationship gracefully. I don't know if many people know how to end relationships gracefully, but it was like eating me alive inside. I was terrified to be alone. I didn't think I would have that intimacy

again. I was just scared. So I was clinging on to something that was so toxic and wasn't helping me in any way that was hurting me emotionally, spiritually, physically, everything. I was taking that frustration and taking it out on everyone else in the world. I was so angry in the world and resentful that anytime someone would step to me, whatever it be social media or basketball game or whatever, I would want to fight them. Right. Like I would want to take it out on them because I didn't take it out on my girlfriend. Right. Right. And there was a point where I was playing pick up basketball a lot just to get the energy out. And I was always trying to fight with people. Like every time it didn't matter if it was like some 16-year-old punk.

No, and at the time, you're playing it off as I'm just ultra competitive. Yeah, exactly. I was like, I just want to win. But it's like zero stakes games on the mean streets of West Hollywood, right? And it was like, why am I like always trying to fight these 17-year-old kids who just have like, you know, are talking trash to me. Right. They're like wimps. They're like tiny little dudes that I'm like trying to step back to. Like, like it's, like it's hurting my masculinity and my manhood is being like

affected by them talking to me. Right. And after months of this, I would get into like shoving matches with kids and pretty much just like express my dominance over them. Cause I was so much bigger that they would stop talking. Right. So I was always trying to find a place to dominate. Right. And be like the alpha male and the aggressor. And one day I was playing a basketball game and I was guarding a guy who was older than me and much bigger. He's about your size. And he was older though. He's probably like in his mid forties, middle, late forties, big guy. So I'm guarding him and he's, you know, you got in his mid 40s mid to late 40s big guy so i'm guarding him and he's you know you got to kind of like hold the gut not hold him but like lean

into the guy when he's that big when you're playing down low so i'm leaning into him he's leaning to me you know it's it's kind of like a clean physical game right you know we're not like hitting each other but we're hard fouling clean you know and um it gets down to the last point it's a game point both teams so bragging rights is what matters right now right and um i go up for a layup he fouls me hard he goes up for a layup i foul him hard kind of goes back and forth no one's able to score until one time i like grab his arm when he got the ball to score again. And then all of a sudden he kind of lost it and headbutts me. And this is the moment where I, it's like years of frustration come out.

Right. Where now I have the right to hit someone. Right, right, right. Someone hit me. Right. Now it's more than just a shove. Right. It's like let me unleash all the pain I felt.

Right. Over this relationship over the last eight months and bring it out. And I literally like went into another mode of like aggression and alpha male, like zero thought process. I just UFC, you know, headlock, punch the guy, took him to the ground, just like pummeled this guy and had like my mind took over. My body took over. I didn't even know what I was doing. It was just like, ahed this guy. Right. And had like my mind took over, my body took over. I didn't even know what I was doing. It was just like, ah, like everything.

All my pain just came out on this guy. Until someone took us off and pulled me off and got him up. And I remember looking at the guy's face and I couldn't recognize him. And I was so terrified at what I'd done. This was four years ago. And I couldn't, I was like, I was so terrified and what I'd done this was four years ago yeah and I couldn't I was like I was so so much adrenaline in that moment and I was just like what did I do I was like what the fuck did I just do right and I remember literally running back to my place like a coward like scared

like a scared little boy I was like the police department office is like literally across the street, right? Now he hit me and everyone saw that he hit me first and things like that So I realized like I'll probably be fine. But my buddy was there. He's like you just need to go like this could get bad like whatever and I ran back to my place literally like scare like a scared child ran back to my place was shaking Looking in the mirror in my bathroom. And all I could say is like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, who are you? Why are you allowing this to happen? Why are you so angry? I just kept saying like, why am I

so angry? And it was kind of the wake up call for me because I wish I didn't, you know, get in that fight, but stuff happens and you know, whatever. But it was a wake-up call because my life wasn't working. My relationship wasn't working. I didn't have the emotional capacity to really tell her what I wanted and to express myself and to leave. I was taking out all this aggression in business when people would comment on anything critical online, social media, my blog, whatever. I had to defend myself. I had to respond and like make myself look good. And same thing in this fight. It's like, why? None of this mattered. It wasn't even like there was no money on the line. There was nothing on the line except for 10 kids just playing basketball. And so I started to get some help. I started to ask for feedback.

I said to my friends, like, I don't know why I'm doing this or like why I'm so frustrated or why I'm so angry, but I need some support. I went to, I'm going to share a story with you that I think you're going to really appreciate. I went to a leadership emotional intelligence workshop. It's a five day experience where we talk a lot about mindset and talk a lot about, it's kind of like therapy with a group of people where they address everything from your life that isn't working. And so you address issues you had with your parents, you address issues from past relationships, you address issues with your own relationship with yourself, situations in your life, and they put you through different experiences and games to create a mirror to show you how you've been acting your whole life and what works for you and what doesn't work for you. And at the three day mark,

my ego is like so big. I'm like, I teach this stuff. Like I already know all this stuff. Like I don't need this. And at the three-day mark, a lot of people are crying. A lot of people are like opening up about stuff from their past. And, you know, they're very open and vulnerable. And the trainer, the facilitator of this workshop at the three-day mark says, okay, we've addressed everything from our past. And we're moving forward towards our future. So we're going to be talking now about the life we want to create for

ourselves, how we do want to feel, how we want to think, and the dreams we have for ourselves. But in order to do that, we have to let go of everything from our past first. So if you haven't addressed anything yet with the group or in any of these situations that we've gone through, these games, these exercises, if you haven't addressed anything, now is the time or pretty much forever hold your peace moment. And so in my mind, I'm thinking to myself, you know, my parents getting divorced. I've already talked about that. Being picked on, being bullied, being picked last when I was a kid. I've addressed all these things. My brother went to prison when I was eight for four and a half years for selling drugs. I addressed that in here.

You know, being in the special needs classes, you know, feeling stupid my whole life. Like I addressed all these things and these conversations and these exercises. And I was like, that time I was raped by another man when I was five went through my mind. And I was like, why have I never told anyone this for 25 years since it happened right like I've always been terrified to let people know that another man sexually abused me right it was like this it was like if anyone ever knew this they wouldn't accept me they wouldn't look at me the same way there's something wrong with you yeah right yeah yeah that was like they wouldn't accept me they wouldn't look at me the right way they would they wouldn they wouldn't love me. I wouldn't have any friends. Like all these childhood fears

always surrounded me from this one, this one thing. It was a combination of like everything that I think made me more defensive and aggressive. It wasn't just that experience, but I remember saying like, why do I let this one thing have power over me? So I was saying to myself, you know, why have I never shared this thing and why does it have so much power over me? And so in that moment, I just felt like I have to share this. I stood up in front of this room of about 50 people, walked to the front of the room. I couldn't look anyone in the eyes. I stared down the entire time on a carpet and looked just like this. I couldn't look anyone in the eyes. I stared down the entire time on a carpet and looked just like this. And for the first time in 25 years, walked through every

moment of what happened, walked through being at the babysitter's, the babysitter's son taking me to the bathroom and walking through everything, the smell of it, the scene, the taste, everything of that experience I still had in my memory so strong. And I shared it, and I couldn't look up at anyone in the face. When I completed sharing the story, like the room is like almost in shock, like dead silent, to see this big white jock dude with an ego come up and start sharing something like this. there was the most unexpected thing I sit down

Back in my chair, and I just start erupting. I'm like erupting of tears like howling of Just releasing these tears that I've been I guess holding back for so long right, and I'm crying. I'm shaking I'm like Terrified to look anyone in the eyes still. I can't look anyone in the eyes. Luckily there's two women on either side of me who are holding me, like crying in my arms and like holding me. And thankfully, cause I felt like so alone in that moment until they like grabbed me and hugged me and were like crying with me. And again, all this embarrassment, all this shame and guilt, I was just like, I can't be here. I ran out of the room. It was like in a hotel, like a conference room. I ran outside to get some fresh air, went to the, uh, uh, there was like a back alley street and then a wall. And I ran across the street and just put

my head on the wall like this with my arm and was just like in tears. Like I couldn't stop crying. And one of the most beautiful things that ever happened to me was after this moment, all the men from that who were in the workshop came out and one by one looked me in the eyes and they were like, you're my hero. And I'm getting chills just thinking about it. Cause they were like, you're my hero. I've thought so much. I've been judging you this entire time. But for you to be able to just talk about that is one of the most incredible things for me to hear. Because I was sexually abused.

And I've never told anyone. And some people were like, I didn't go through sexual abuse, but I went through this thing. Everybody has their, everyone had something. And they were like, and I've been ashamed to talk about this. And one guy was like, I've been married for 25 years and I have four kids. And my wife doesn't know what happened to me when I was a kid. And you're not, you gave me permission to finally go there. Right. And I've been holding onto this pain my whole life. And, and I was like, what? It was like, it blew my mind. The thing that I was the most afraid of letting people see me for actually who I am or the things I've gone through

was the thing that brought me so much closer together to everyone in that room. They were like people, one guy was like, I will follow you anywhere. Like now I know who you really are. I will follow you anywhere. You were already like a leader, but now you're like the most honest leader there is. And I trust you. And I was like, what? I was like, really? I mean, me projecting as this like perfect athlete business guy for so long with no flaws, you didn't trust, but now you trust me. Cause I talked about like something that I'm terrified of. Right. Right. And it was just blew my mind and it gave me this unbelievable, you know, for a few hours, I'm still feeling like insecure and embarrassed and worried and

scared. Cause I'm like, is this for real? Maybe it's just like the context of this environment that people are like supportive, but I can't go out and tell my family or friends this. Right. Right. Right. Right. We were all kind of like sharing in this place. So are people going to accept me in the real world? Right. And they're, you know, they were encouraging me to go tell my family, go tell my friends. And I was like, there's no fucking way I'm going to like let anyone know. Right. Right. I was like, I feel safe here. It's like a therapy session, but I was like, there's no way. And they were like,

we challenge you to do it. Like continue this process. So I did it. I told each family member one by one and it was terrifying because I didn't want my family to know what had happened. Right. But one by one, it was like the most beautiful experience again of my life because my sisters, my brother, my mom. Yes, there was some pain and sadness from especially my mom who felt responsible.

But my siblings started opening up to me about stuff they'd never shared with me. And I'm like, I've known these people my whole life and I didn't know these things about them. Right. And it's like I created this bond and connection with my family that is so much stronger because of that moment. Then I started sharing with my friends. And this is where I was really scared. I was like, what if I have no friends? They're going to think you're fucking weird or something.

Yeah, exactly. And one by one, I started sharing with them. And again, they started opening up to me. They started listening deeper. They started looking at me differently from a place of support and love. And I was like, wow. And every time I shared it, the less I was shaking,

like when I talked about it, the less I was tearing up, the less I was embarrassed. It came to the point where I was starting to share it more and more in the right setting and context. I wasn't just blurting it out. Right, you're not posting on Facebook.

Yeah, exactly. Right, which is what everybody likes to do these days. Yeah, exactly. Right. Which is what everybody likes to do. Yeah, exactly. And I realized like the more I share, the more I'm healing it for myself. And the more like, and something crazy happened.

My business started to explode. Yeah. Like people trusted me more just because of how I was showing up differently. They couldn't really tell what I was doing. Like people said on my pot who were listening to my podcast, they were like, I loved your podcast before Lewis, but like something in the last few months has changed. Like something about you is just different. I don't know what it is, but like keep doing it. Right. You know, I wasn't opening up still about it. They're like, just whatever you're doing, it's working. Right. And I was like, huh, there's something to this. And I I and to do a long story short or to wrap it up

I finally post on my podcast everyone's telling me for months you got to share this I was like no fucking way am I gonna let the public know about this right I was like first it's family then it was friends I was like there's no way I want to share this publicly one like I don't know if any white male jock dude has ever done that that I was aware of. Two, I don't want anyone to think it's some marketing thing or anything like that. Three, I don't even know how I would do this without hurting people. It's like a sacred space for men to talk about this thing in my mind. Everyone just kept saying, you've got to do this.

You've got to do this. You're going to help so many men and women. So I said, okay, if it's going to help people, I'll do it. I finally do it months later. And again, it was probably the most powerful thing I'd ever done because so many men, I got hundreds of emails from men saying, again, I've never shared with anyone before. I never thought I could share. I never knew how to share. And now you're giving me permission. Thank you. Right. And I was just like, wow, this is more meaningful than any type of like business content or, you know, motivation, teaching stuff or marketing stuff. Like this is actually helping men heal and women heal because now they can have conversations with the men in

their life, whether it be their husbands or boyfriends, their fathers, their sons, because so many sons are disconnected. And I was like, huh, there's something to this. And I needed to do more research on it. So for the last four years, I've been digging in with all the research, you know, one in six men have been sexually abused. Men commit more way more suicide or suicide attempts than women and i believe is because men don't have the outlet to share it's not accepted in society it's not accepted with their guy friends it's not accepted to share with women because when you're a strong man pussy exactly and so it's just constantly you know the way i grew up and i think the way you grew up you know in the sports world and just around so it's just constantly, you know, the way I grew up and I think the way you grew up, you know, in the sports world and just around guys, it's like you're more like making fun of people to like fit in. You're more like putting other people down.

See, I was always the one who was getting made fun of. Yeah, me too. Always growing up. And so I had to make fun of people with other people to like fit into that group. Right? Right. right right yeah so for me i was like okay if i really want to make an impact and i want to continue to help myself heal and not be aggressive and and make an impact in my business my health all these things my relationships i've got to continue to open up and i just you know i like results i was like if you want to make more money here's a way to do it right you want to like have

better health you're going to feel at peace inside and accept yourself more when you do these things. And so for me, I was just like, there are so many men who are suffering so many women who are suffering in relationships with men because the men aren't opening up or they're so connected to, I'm glad you brought that up because your book is not just for men. I think more women are going to read this because at the end of every chapter, we teach women how to connect with the men in their life and give them actual steps to understanding why the man is wearing that specific mask. There's nine different masks that men wear based on psychology research and why men wear it and how to get them to take it off without making them wrong.

Because there's a lot of women that make men wrong for who they are. And really what men need more is not telling them they're bad or wrong, but acknowledging for the good they are doing so that they'll continue to do more good. Yeah, so for me, to wrap it up, the reason I wanted to do this was because, you know, the publisher for my last book was like, okay, let's do like a business or marketing book. And I was just like, you know what? I'm just not 50 million. Yeah. And I was just like, you know what? I'm just not feeling it. And what I'm feeling is the thing that I talked about once in my podcast and started to open up a little bit about that is actually making the biggest impact to my audience is this topic. And I didn't know that these crazy racial marches and gender wars and political dysfunction

and challenges that are happening in the country. And now with the Vegas shooting, it's like, I wasn't aware two years ago when I started writing this book that all this was going to be happening. And I feel like so much of the tension and anger and stress, it's coming from men. It's starting from men who don't feel safe within themselves, who feel insecure, who are afraid. And they lead with, I need to win win i need to be right i need to kill you took the words out of my mouth like i was just gonna say i was literally i swear this is what i was gonna say people are too worried about winning because they want to look a good way as opposed to solving a problem see it man and so so they vent that. They use the win as the expression of they're smarter, they're better, they're stronger.

They're right. Exactly. And it's killing the world. It's killing society. It's killing, you know, with politics, when there's not a place of how can we all win together? How can we find a solution? Like you said.

That's right. Marriages are going apart more than ever right now i'm sure you're seeing this in the in religion it's like more tension ever within marriages break falling apart uh it's more tension ever between like gender wars uh there's more tension with our environment dude i have this i i have i purposely avoid political discussions on social because i don't yeah the reason is, is because literally finding someone who is willing to have a discussion about a solution is literally almost impossible. Without them needing to be right. We want, that's exactly right.

It's this polarizing argument about race or politics or whatever. When in reality, we all want the same fucking thing. We all want the same thing. You can't, you can't win the argument. You can't, this isn't an argument. You can't win a discussion.

A discussion is about us coming to a solution, you know? And it's, it's, I get so far. I just had a DM with a really good friend of mine who's a black guy. And we were going back and forth about a certain video about a cop. And were talking about you know i he posted it and you know he used the hashtag black lives matter and it was very like it was he was saying you know if this has been a white

if this had been a black dude they would have shot him and i wrote him back i said bro i said you're you're a major influence in in the world i said, and this guy's, if I say his name, you guys know who he was. I said, you're a major influencer. You realize that putting that message out is dividing people, not putting people together. I want the same thing you want. Why do people want the same shit you want? You know, you have to quit eating what people are feeding you and start thinking on your own about what you're putting out. And what the reason he did that is because he's angry on the inside about the situation, you know, and we don't have to win these arguments with each other.

We have to figure out how to come together and solve the problem. And, dude, what you're saying is so true when it comes to, I mean, dude, we're going to get into all kinds of business aspects here in a minute. Yes. But when it comes to online communication, there's very few discussions. It's a lot of arguing. And it's the, the reason is, is because people feel like they have to assert their, their intelligence through comments, you know?

And the truth of it is, is most of us want the same shit. Right. You know what I mean? We want to be united. We want to think the same things. And just because you poke a hole in something I said that I took out of context,

it doesn't make you look smart. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. So many people like to do that because that's the only way they get any traction. And my whole life was built around that

where I needed to prove everyone wrong. and i used to be so i used to love these dude i quotes i still have that big i still have that in me no i get it right a big chip it's still there too but it's like i used to love on instagram would be like prove them wrong that was like my greatest like yeah i used to love seeing that and posting that. And then I realized my whole life has been to prove everyone else wrong. The freaking eight-year-old boys that picked me last, the man that sexually abused me, whatever. Just like teachers, coaches, just like I always had this mentality I'm going to prove them wrong. And I did. Yeah.

I became an all-state. But then what? Exactly. Okay. Such unfulfillment inside. Well, I think. Yeah. I became an all state. But then what? Exactly. Okay. Such unfulfillment inside. Well, I think it depends. And then I had to go after something else to like continue proving wrong. I think that, and I say this a lot, I think negativity is very underrated in terms of

how much it could propel you in life. The most powerful, yes. But I feel like that when you go from, and dude, I talk about this a lot. You have to evolve from that. And you have to go through the process. And eventually, and this is how it was for me, and you tell me if you agree or disagree. Eventually, you go from being motivated, because I still am motivated by this shit. I'm not going to even deny it.

I get it. But I'm more motivated by purpose purpose yes okay so i've trained i've gone from trying to prove my only motivation in life being to prove everybody wrong yep to where now i'm like so far past all the people that i was like trying to prove wrong now you're lifting others up that's right and so now i found a purpose and yes and a lot of people if you never make that transit so if you tell a guy who's 20 years old that that uh it's wrong to be motivated by negativity they're gonna think there's something wrong with that because i think a lot of people are but if you also tell them hey be motivated by purpose i think that's a natural evolution people have to go through yeah what do you think i think it is i mean i think you have to be fully self-aware

and be able to realize it because I probably heard that a million times, but it never landed with me. Dude, I never knew what it meant. I'm like, what does that even mean? I heard win-win. I never knew what win-win was until four years ago. Right.

I didn't know that I could win and everyone else could win around me. Right. I was like, no, there's only one winner. But that's also your sports background too. Exactly. Right. But I was like, there's always one winner.

Right. Either win or lose. And what you learn, and learn and dude you and i we talked about this before when you get in business and success when you everybody can win everyone there's so much abundance how many other dudes do you know that own supplement companies that are killing it a million supplement companies i know like 30 of them and dude i'm friends with all the dudes exactly we're all friends yeah we're like hey bro how's this working for you? Oh, it's working like this for me. You know, like when you get into that next level of thinking and you go from wanting to kill everybody, which, dude, is extremely powerful motivation. And I'm not knocking it because that's my DNA. Because, like, dude, when it comes down to it and we get in a competition, I'm going to fucking win.

Right. Like, or die. Like, it's just the way I am. But I have become so focused on purpose that now it makes sense, like what I'm doing makes sense. When I was trying to prove everybody wrong, and that was exclusively my motivation. That was your purpose. It didn't make sense.

And like you said, you're unfulfilled, and you're angry. But once you start to find a purpose, and you start to see the good you're doing and you start to see the results you're producing for other people now you get into a situation where you're fulfilled because it's not just about you yeah everybody around and when you achieve by proving everyone else wrong you still say oh but it doesn't feel good. It's not enough. I need more. I need to build a bigger empire to continue to prove people wrong. And it's never going to feel fulfilling like we're talking about. But when you have the purpose on it and a mission to lift others up, you can finally celebrate your victories and celebrate the good that you're doing and be like, look at this person's life that's changed

because of what we created in our company. And, dude, I don't know how much you believe, and I don't think we've ever talked about this, but i don't know how much you believe and i don't think we've ever talked about this and uh but i don't know how much you believe in like the law of attraction i imagine you probably yeah i believe in abundance you know i believe in abundance yeah so i i do believe in abundance and i do believe that like just because i'm successful it doesn't mean that the dudes that on it or the dudes at uh visalis or the dudes at other companies trust and all these guys yeah kill it too yeah and i'm happy for them and you know why because i see them doing it and i'm like i can do it too and they see me doing it and they think the same so like it's all a synergistic energy that people put out and it creates positivity yeah and and results does

that make sense absolutely yeah like uh gary just said in one of his posts that he doesn't believe in the law of attraction. He thinks it's bullshit. I disagree. I think it's amazing. I could tell you a million stories. I could tell you a million stories. I have too much proof to not believe it. And there's shit that I can't explain.

That could be a whole other episode. And if you're attracting, proving people wrong, it's going to attract that negative energy in your life. Anxiety. Stress. Right. Not good enough. Needing more. And I think that if I'm being honest, I'm a little of both.

You know what I mean? I understand how to play both. I'm far less prove people wrong than I used to be because now I'm confident with who I am. And I don't really feel like I'm like, all right, well, I'm doing this, this, this. I can name off the highlight reels, whatever. Right. But I feel like I've proved it. Yeah.

You know what I mean? So there's not- Who else do you need to prove wrong? Right. Now it's more about- It's yourself. Now it's about the mission. It's it.

It's about the purpose. And I think the more you lean that way, you're going to see- Oh, yeah. You guys just launch into a whole new direction. Yeah. Dude, you can see it., you're going to see you guys just launch into a whole new direction. Yeah. Dude, you could see it. And you're going to see the energy shift.

People are going to feel better. They're going to feel like the purpose as well. Right, right, right. As opposed to like Andy's like tension of like needing to prove someone wrong. Right, right,

right. I mean, I still, you know, I mean, I don't know that as athletes and guys. Still be competitive. Right.

So that's, so that's something I want to address about this. So this is a really good tie-in to what the book is about. Some people will read The Mask of Masculinity, and they're going to assume, especially manly dudes, they're going to assume the book is like how to be a pussy. Right? You know what I'm saying?

Because that's how they see it. And that's the whole point. The point is that there is a balance of being a male or an alpha male. Like, dude, first of all, I think people who try to be alpha male, you're not alpha. Right. Dude, the way you become alpha male is by helping other motherfuckers. That's it, man. You know what I'm saying?

I took the words out of my mouth. Like you said about people trusting you when you show the vulnerability i was just having this discussion with my wife this morning uh we were in a bathroom and i was getting ready she's like what do you got going i don't really tell her all like when i'm home i'm home yeah you know what i'm saying i'll go i got lewis in town we're gonna talk about his book you know this and that and uh and she's like oh that's gonna be good i'm like yeah i said you know the thing is that when we got in this like five minute discussion i'm like you know so many people not it's popular now to have these these dudes out there like teaching other people how

to be men right right you know i'm saying like you gotta go chop wood and build a campfire and be fucking and have a man yeah to be a man. Wear a beard. Right, exactly. Now, hey, I'm all about the beards, but it has nothing to do with who I am as a man. Right, right, right. You know, and it's like, I started explaining, I said, you know, one of the reasons, because I'm very fortunate, and you are too, to have an extremely loyal fan base.

Yes. Like, our fan base at the mfco project and my personal me my personal brand is so loyal and so dedicated and i told her i said you know it has to do with the fact like we and i'm not gonna name his name we talked about another guy we both know who likes to be a celebrity okay and uh that that particular person likes to be a celebrity. Okay. And, uh, that, that particular person likes to pretend like he's on another level than everybody else. You know what I mean? And the reason that people are, are loyal to us and our personal brands and in business approachable on the same level, dude, we're human. We show people that we're human we show people that hey

look dude i'm not any different than you i have my struggles i have my setbacks i have my little victories too i have my bad days i don't want to do anything i have my good days where i'm on all cylinders and people look at that and they're you know and it's so much more believable because it's true relatable too because it's true because Relatable, too. Because it's true. Well, people don't believe anything that's too polished. No. Especially nowadays with social media. So that's what we're going to get into, like the branding aspect.

Like all you people out there, and this goes for women, too, that try to pretend like you're perfect and you're above and you're this and you're that. Because there are a few people out there who have managed to build a good following who do that shit. That's the old way the new way to build a true tribe and a true following is to let people know who exactly you are yeah let people know the shit that you've gone through let people know the struggles you have and you know why that creates trust because they know it's the truth the most engaged photo i have on my instagram except for like a couple

that went viral for whatever reason is me opening up about being sexually abused and like the fear I had around, you know, sharing it and things like that. I just posted it, you know, like a few weeks ago and it got like a thousand comments and someone else made the graphic for me for Goldcast made it for a video and I didn't even make make it but i was like oh maybe i'll share this yeah and people were like and i've shared this again years ago on my podcast but i have a whole new audience that doesn't know this about me yeah and it's not like i'm talking about it every day dude you know what i mean yeah i do you just on a different subject do you repeat do you repost content repurpose it consistently from like three six months ago yeah that's what i did no one's looking at stuff.

I get people who are like, dude, we've seen this four times. I'm like, bro, I got 100 extra thousand people here who haven't seen it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So for me, I'm like, huh, always having the polished stuff. Sure, it's nice to show like the highlight reel. But again, there's so many of those big Instagram followers or brands that just have highlight reel after highlight reel and they're losing engagement and following. Dude, because it's bullshit.

Nobody knows it. Yeah, exactly. Your life isn't that great. You know, exactly. You know that... Or you make me feel bad all the time. Right. Like there's something wrong with me. Exactly. Dude, I just talked about this a few podcasts ago about some of the other entrepreneurs out there where they act like they're on fucking

level 20 every day, all day. And they're fucking not. I know they're not because they motherfucking text me. It's like the people who ask Emily if she gets daily motivational talks from you. Dude, people will ask my wife. They're like, oh, what's it like living with him? I bet you're always motivated.

It's like, look, dude, here's the reality. He's stressed out. Yeah, when I go home, she's the one picking me up. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Of course. And that's what people don't understand. And then there's even the worst,

it's the $30,000 millionaires, which are guys or girls that don't have any money. Well, they don't have any money who are wearing $50,000 watches, you know, driving the cars and they can't afford it. Bro, I got targeted with a fucking watch ad,

I don't know, two or three days ago, that was all fake fucking like APs, Rolexes, Hublots, like all fake shit. And then, dude, I could talk about that for five fucking hours. You know, these kids who are like, my mastermind my life mastermind you're 19 i'm like bro you're 19 right you don't know your fucking ass from your elbow right like you think you do that's what being 19 is about you know yeah we i thought that too man i'm not knocking your hustle i appreciate it but how about this go out and build something and then share that story exactly dude i get so frustrated with that. The internet's so predatory, especially in the entrepreneur space, because you have so

many people that are talking about shit that they're just watching Gary or they're watching Grant or they're watching us. And they're just regurgitating that shit in some program. It's like, bro, you haven't lived it. And living it and talking about it is two different things. And everybody knows it. Exactly. Yeah. I was going to say real quick, for the people who don't share things, the girls on Instagram, the ones who travel, like, dude, imagine what they're not showing

or what they're not telling people. Dude. Yeah. So like, dude, so I was going to say that. Um, so, you know, and at first form, we Form, we have a number of athletes and influencers that promote the brand all over Instagram. My biggest challenge, my biggest, and these are people that have anywhere from 100,000 to up to 11 million, 12 million followers. Right. My biggest challenge with those people has been to have this discussion with them. Really? Because they're always looking perfect yes and but if you read their captions when they post about first form they're talking about the real shit and so like my biggest victory this year has been to like that's funny just get these people

to step out because they were so unwilling to do that make them look human like you were saying earlier and everything's photoshopped up every single one of them that has listened and done it has come back to me and been like dude this is awesome i love this i love being a part of this brand because they're getting real interaction now you guys allow me to tell the truth nobody else wants to see the truth everybody wants to see the highlight reel and like dude they're all so appreciative of being a part of it because dude they they've been told they've been taught and and we if you pay attention to instagram for the last three years that's what we've been taught we've been told, they've been taught, and if you've paid attention to Instagram for the last three years, that's what we've been taught. We've been taught perfection.

We've been taught the highlight reel. You follow the high-end entrepreneurs. They're always showing their toys and this and that. And very few of them tell their story. You know what I mean? And the story of the struggle is where the value is, man. It is. That's where the connection comes from. If you're an aspiring influencer, you listen to this, which I know a lot of them do, whatever

space you're in. Dude, it is good business to be vulnerable. Absolutely. And I know Vaughn has been wanting to ask this question about how often do you talk about your struggles or your vulnerabilities? Because you could go the other spectrum, right, Vaughn? Right. You don't want to turn into a whiny.

Every day, like, oh, my life. You don't want to be a victim. Dude, so that was something I wanted to bring up too. Yes. Can I insert real quick? Yeah. You guys are hitting everything that I was thinking of. So you just feel the need to speak?

Right, I do. No, actually, for the sake of the audience, I want to drive you to answer this question very specifically. So you talked about how, well, Andy said that there's a lot of guys out there that are going to think this, this book is how to be a pussy, right? But what strikes me about, if you steal my question, I'm going to cut your fucking head off. But what strikes me about you, Lewis, is that you've dealt with this. You've, you've embraced this vulnerability and yet nobody in their right mind is going to say that you became less competitive. So my question is, how has embracing your vulnerability actually liberated you to be more competitive? You know, it's just, it makes me free. The word that always comes to me is like freedom.

I feel freedom, even though, listen, I'm not perfect. And I wear these masks still. There's still some that are hard to let go of, but I'm aware of them when they happen. I'll give an example. Yesterday, trying to get here, I literally, I left my wallet at home, which I've never done. And so I got to the airport and I realized I didn't have my ID. And I had to get through security, like a whole nother back around way and answer all these questions. They pretty much like stripped me down naked and like touch you everywhere. It makes you don't have anything. And I'm, I missed my flight. They closed the door by two minutes and they're, the TSA is taking forever to get me through. And I'm like, guys, I got to get to the gate. They're going to close the door. They're like, no, you're fine. Like you got enough time.

And I was like, you're wrong, but okay. I'm just going to just gonna you know go through the process I get there no one's helpful for me with the customer support I see the plane it hasn't left yet I'm like just open the door let me through and no one will help me I wanted to fucking punch a wall because I was like now I got to take an overnight flight ticket to St. Louis you know I'm pissed at myself for forgetting my wallet I'm pissed at TSA I'm like I want to rage right now and I'm pissed at myself for forgetting my wallet. I'm pissed at TSA. I'm like, I want to rage right now. And I'm literally like, how fitting is this that I, you know, I get to practice what I preach. Well, I get to practice what I'm preaching and not yell at this person that I want to

fucking rage at, not punch the wall, kick a trash can over. I was like literally looking at a trash can, like, I'm going to break this thing. Bro, you got the same fire I got. You know what I mean? I was like, these people are not helping me yeah and i just had to breathe in your head like dude how fucking stupid is this so dumb and i was like every part of this process i was like yes i get to take responsibility that i didn't have my id but this could have not happened also through their lack of time management when i was there and i go you know what there's nothing I can do in this situation

be getting angrier and making a scene is not going to help me it's only going to hurt me so I just breathe and I said we'll figure it out we'll figure it out and you know again I wear these masks happier does that make you it's so much it's so much better I mean the rage of like punching something to feel good for a moment and then you're like why I feel like we're we might not be in the exact same spot in this way but I feel like we've both gone through this process. Yes. And, dude, I used to be the exact same way. Like, I would freak the fuck out over shit that was-

And you'd just like, puff it up and scream. Over stupid shit. Stupid shit. And now it's like, I literally take pride in letting nothing shake me. That's good. You know what I mean? Well, you were just mentioning this about Martin Luther King. What was the quote you said?

The quote is, I will hate no man, for I will give no man that power over me. That's right. That's powerful. Yes. But you have to identify and be aware that you're doing that. Absolutely. Because it will test every, if you're a competitive, fiery dude, it will test every fiber of your being.

That's why you need to be aware of what the masks are first now what's the question you're getting to so i can make sure i got well the question specifically was and you answered it to some extent if i'm no it's how how is embracing vulnerability actually freed you or liberated you to be even more competitive freedom i have a follow-up yes for that it's giving me freedom uh which inner peace in my mind is the most powerful thing we can have. Because if we're constantly in anger, rage, disconnection, resentment, whatever it is, then we are constantly giving our power away to something else. And that is going to hold us back from making the most money we want to make, making the impact, building a brand.

You're spending unnecessary energy on things that don't matter. That don't matter. It's holding you back from your vision of living the life we want to make, making the impact, building the brand. Dude, you're spending unnecessary energy on things that don't matter. That don't matter. Right. It's holding you back from your vision of living the life you want to live by reacting to everything else in the world. That's right. So for me, it's giving me the sense of, and listen, I was a fun, loving guy beforehand. I had a lot of passion, joy.

But when something triggered those masks, it took over. And it took me days or weeks to like get back to that fun loving guy. And I was always conflicted. I was like, why am I fucking angry? Like, why do I allow this? Why am I resentful or defensive? Or why haven't I forgiven that person or myself? I just didn't know how to. And, uh, it's been a four year journey of like learning these things because you don't teach this in school. Your parents don't teach this to you, especially when they tell you to just be a man and don't cry and honestly bro until until you and i had started talking about it i think a lot of people that are very aware like you and i are both i would say at 100 awareness yeah we we go through the evolution naturally um if you hadn't

pointed it out to me like a year ago when we talked about it i don't know that i would have identified the actual transition do you get what i'm saying yeah like i wouldn't have thought about it oh i went through this major transition i used to be this way and now i'm this way yeah i just thought like i grew up but right but the reality there's some men that never grow up exactly and that's what i want to have the awareness so we have two kinds of men we have the guys and i. So we have two kinds of men. We have the guys, and I feel like when you have all these coaches out there that are teaching other dudes to be men, all right, which is, to me, you know, it's not my cup of tea, whatever.

I'm not going to knock anybody's hustle. You know? Right. I feel like you have a lot of guys who feel, all right, this is, like like hard to explain but when we grow up your mom tell like your mom tells you oh you need to be sensitive and you need to have a big heart you needed this and that and then you go to like school and and then you start you're like that and then all of a sudden you're getting picked on right yeah so then you go back in your shell and you become the opposite of that and then most people never evolve from that. Then you have a girlfriend that tells you to be sensitive as well or open up or show emotion.

But then when you do, they're like, I need you to be strong for me right now. So you're like, what do you want me to do? You want me to be strong? You want me to, you know. So that's exactly what I want to talk about. I'll treat you like a dick if you want me to. No, exactly.

If girls don't want to be treated like a dick, they want to be challenged. Yes. It's totally different. The reason girls date guys who are dicks is because they are a natural challenge to them. But most guys can't make that differentiation. No. They think, you hear it all the time, girls never want the nice guy. No, they want a nice guy.

They want a guy that respects them. But they also want a guy that's going to stand up for himself and not be a bitch and, and challenge them when necessary. Okay. And that's what I want. Actually, that's exactly what I wanted to get into because I think looking at, you know, the, the, the word masculinity and, and insinuating that it's, you know, a mask that people wear, there's a lot of dudes that are going to think, well, I don't want to read that book because I'm going to turn into a soppy cry baby. This, that's not what this is about. Okay. It has multiple benefits in business. Like we said, trust engagement, you know, freedom to make the right choices, freedom to have the confidence to not react emotionally, but in relationships, I, there's a fine line between being a man and then being the,

the fake man. Right. And then, so, and I know what I would say to this, but I'm, you wrote the book, so I want to hear your take. What would you say to somebody who's struggling with that? They don't know where the boundaries are. Well, here's the thing. These masks are things that men wear to, one, fit in, and two, create something to develop more self-worth in themselves. So, for example, this would be something to talk about here. There's one that's called the material mask. There's one that's called the sexual mask. There's one that's called the athlete mask. There's all these different

names for these masks that are backed by psychologists who have backed this with research to support this with me. I've done a lot of work with psychologists on this. And I'll give an example. When I was broke on my sister's couch, I said, I'm sick and tired of being broke. I'm going to do whatever it takes to get rich. I'm going to focus on this. I'm going to find rich mentors. I'm going to read every book. I'm going to do anything I can to not be broke anymore. So I put on the material mask and I said, I need to make as much money as I can so i can have the nice things and get off this couch and it fucking worked i got rich right but here's the thing here's the consequence i gained 60 pounds i didn't have any relationships and i was constantly talking about the money i

was making to to create self-worth for myself to attract like love from other people as opposed to, dude, yeah, I can go make a ton of money, but show it as an inspiration, not as a, I'm here. Look at me,

look at me and all this stuff. Like, and this is a great example for you because I know you have a lot of money and you have nice things and there's nothing wrong with that. It's when the guys who are constantly talking about their nice things to make themselves look good and develop self worth, you're never going to have enough self-worth. You'll never have enough. You'll never have enough.

Right. And you constantly need the bigger thing to feel worthy of people's attention. And it'll last for literally five minutes. Exactly. And so this is adult, again, it's a challenge because these things, when we wear them, they work, we get results. But there's also something that's missing. Right. Which is this feeling of like, what if all these cars and money went away? Would people still love you? Exactly.

Or are they there because you have it? Right. So if you have nothing in your heart that shows people like you care, you're here to lift others up, it's just me, me, me. Again, the same thing with the sexual mask. When I was heartbroken when a girl broke up with me,

I was like, I'm never again gonna let a girl hurt me like this so i'm gonna go have every woman desire me i'm gonna learn all the skills i need to so that women want me right i'm gonna sleep with as many women as i can and then never commit to them right and it worked i got women to desire me and want me and want to date me and be in a relationship with me. And I continued to be able to sleep with as many as I wanted to essentially. It became like easier and easier. I was like, wow, this is amazing. I was getting results. But I felt so empty.

And from the outside, most dudes would be like, that guy's the man. You're the man. But I was like, man, why am I so lonely? Why am I so, why like did none of these girls mean anything? Why do I feel like so shitty? Why do I feel like, I know you're not doing the right thing. Exactly.

And it was never enough. I was never, there was not many girls that could bring me self worth. Right. And that's what this is all about is like, how do we discover how to live a purposeful life so that we can make the most money and make the most impact and feel worthy. Right. And guys, don't take this as, you know, out of context. And Lewis is not saying it's not a good thing to have a lot of money. I want all the money to be attracted to women or know how to attract women. You know, like those are all good things, but you have to utilize them for the right

reasons. Exactly. Exactly. You know, I, I think, you know i i think you know you with guys you have one of two extremes like we have in most situations in life we have extremes if you go to politics we have the right side and we have the left side if you go to you know the country you've got the north and the south right you know everything you're going to be able to find a natural 50 divide yep and with men we have it the same way. We have dudes that are overly what they think is masculine, and then we have dudes who are women. And you know what I'm saying?

And I'm not, you know, for the women that listen, I'm saying that with traditional stereotypical sense. Like women are typically more emotional and more sharing and more this or more feminine. So we have men who are very quote unquote masculine. And then we have women who are, or we have men who act like women and think that that's what's going to attract women because that's what their moms told them. And you know what's funny is neither one of them work. Right.

You know what I mean? They're both fake. Right. Because you're not being who you truly are. And that's what it comes down to is taking off the mask and revealing who you are and being that,

being comfortable in your own skin. Well, dude, just like we talked about creating trust with your followers or your business or your personal brand through sharing your humanity, how do you create wonderful friendships?

How do you create amazing relationships with romantic relationships? You do you create amazing relationships with romantic relationships? You do that by being who the fuck you are. This is so true. I mean, the key to success, I'm sure you would agree with this, the key to success in your life has been the relationships in your life.

No question. And the key to successful relationships at the highest level is vulnerability, is being who you are, is revealing yourself, opening up. And you shouldn't be embarrassed about yourself about that shouldn't be embarrassed right like yeah like i i literally i don't know that there's anything i could truly get embarrassed about because a because you're comfortable in yourself dude and i live i i i know who i am

i live what i think is the correct a morally correct life life. You know what I mean? I don't do things that I don't think are right. And for that reason, when I, you know, when I think about, when I reflect on myself, you know, that, that gives me confidence in, in who I am, makes me feel good. It gives me, it gives me the ability to connect with other people. And, and like, dude, if they were to say, you know, like, I mean, even i mean even like stupid like hey i shit my pants today it's like hey bro you know what i've done that before you know like yeah yeah like stuff that would be totally embarrassing like you just got to learn to laugh at it and and understand that you know everybody's gone through these weird things that you go through as being a

human being exactly and when you share those things and you're real with people without feeling like it's going to damage you, you become somebody who other people will naturally connect with and follow because they emulate to have that same sort of freedom. Right, right. And I wanted to, I know you had another question. I didn't want to cut you off. No, you guys are just reading my mind. Okay.

You pretty much answered everything. Okay. My follow up question. I want to respect your. I mean, yes and no, I'll just, I'll just state it and you can add whatever layer you want to it is that, you know, I'm four, I'm in fourth grade, I'm in church, I'm getting tired. My eyes closed, my mom, you know, elbows me and she says, quit falling asleep. And I say,

oh, I'm praying mom. So from the outside, two completely different things from the outside two completely different things can look the same and so you talked at the beginning about how you know you were driven by this rage like playing a basketball game and he's talked about how you know we want this competitive edge we want this competitive right we want that so my question for both of you guys- But if it's at the detriment of hurting someone else, that's not good. There's a balance. Because you know there's going to be asterisk holes that are going, well, wait a minute. No. So what my question is, just flesh it out a little bit more for the audiences.

How do you know the difference between when you are being driven by the wrong kind of rage and when you're being driven by the right kind? It's like a UFC fighter who is fighting for his life and is fighting for his mission to be the best. And after he pummels the guy in the face and breaks his arm and he taps out, he embraces him and he says, I love you. Respect, right.

He says, I love you. You're a champion. You're a warrior. I'm so glad we can connect now in another way. As opposed to that's right motherfucker like you suck like that doesn't feel good no and you know what's you'll always regret that yeah you know people i'm on i'm on very in in my business life my actual businesses i'm on very good terms with most people that compete with us because I, I believe a in abundance, but,

but B I've learned through experience that that will only drive you insane. And people think it's weird. Like they're like, dude, how come you're nice to that guy? How come you, how come you treat that guy? Cool. He's like competitors with you. I'm like, maybe that guy, you know, that guy's in a place I was five years ago and I know what that's like, or he's in a place that i want to be in five years and there's there's things you can learn from everybody and there's ways to get everybody to play together also competition makes you stronger and you also want to have a good reputation and with your competitors because what if you merge one day what if you want to partner

one day what if you want to like refer it happens all the time that's why i get so annoyed with small business owners who think that their marketing strategy revolves around talking shit no that's the worth most worthless thing that you could do and it creates a total distrust with every one of your customers that's another story but to answer that question i want to answer that question so i think that there is tremendous and i've said this and we've done whole podcasts about this i always say negativity is extremely underrated because dude if you look let's be honest if you look at what how you market yourself and how i market yourself and you didn't people didn't know us didn't listen to anything except go to our instagram they are literally polar opposites

you're all about love you're all about you know being a positive guy and i'm all like dude harness that negative shit and shove it down everybody's fucking throat and dude but i think that and you've said it just here in this podcast you have both sides to you and i have both sides yeah it's just choosing the direction we want to go and i think that there is, like I said, tremendous power in negativity. And when you're young and when you're hungry and you don't understand or haven't gone through the process of truly finding a purpose, those things can be very powerful energy to project you ahead. Absolutely. And there's nothing wrong with that. It can beille's powerful fuel

you'll ever have no question but if at the end of the day after years something's hurting you inside still exactly and that's all you have it's time to shift it or learn how to balance that's right and you my natural progression my short answer is you need both my natural progression has been for most of the time until I was about 33 years old. I'm 38 now. So about five years ago, it was a hundred percent. I want to fuck everybody. I'm going to destroy everybody. Yeah. Yeah. And people resonate with that message because they know what that's like. They feel it. They've been hurt. They've been told that there's piece of shit. They've been called fat. They've been told they're crazy. We all go through that. And so if you're going to have that energy in your life, you may as well use it.

That's my point. But, and we both agree on this, there will come a time where you will get to a point of progress and you will look back and say, man, I've made all this progress. It just doesn't, I don't feel like I have. I feel like it doesn't feel like I thought it would would feel and that's where the transition will start to happen you said something earlier that is probably the most profound thing of this whole conversation to bring it to to wrap up is that the ultimate alpha man is the man who supports others and it lives in service right and for me that's kind of what i've found throughout this research is that the ultimate

man or definition of masculinity is living in service. Right. And you can't be negative and use anger and this like negative fire to fuel living in or to live in service. Right. Like it can fuel you to get there, but you got to eventually shift to be like, you know what? The ultimate alpha man is like not the one who needs to fight.

It's the one who can diffuse any situation because he can see everything clearly. You're setting an example for other men. That's what alpha male is about. It's about being the dominant male. But the way you become the dominant male, which is counterintuitive to what everybody says, is by being the guy who lets everyone else know that they're just like you. You know what I mean? And, dude, we get bombarded by people who think alpha male means beard, muscles.

Aggressive, yeah. Yeah, like, honestly, like, if you looked at my page, like, I fit the stereotypical dude. Yeah, big truck. Yeah, big truck, you know, guns all guns all the shit i just happen to like that shit yeah but that doesn't make me a man no you know what i mean and i got tattoos like all the stereotypical shit i'm like the embodiment of that and the funny thing is is that people who from the outside that will follow me who have never listened to me talk have never listened to me speak have never read any of the shit i've written. They would think that guy is like the guy

he's like, he's trying to be a tough guy. And the truth is, is that the reason that most of the people follow me has nothing to do with that. It has to do with the fact, and this is kind of cool too, is that I might set that expectation. I can't tell you how many people email me and they say, dude, you're nothing like I first thought you were. Yeah, yeah. And, like, that's, like, the ultimate compliment to me because I get what they're saying. And what they're saying is that they perceive me in that light and then figured out that there's so much more to it. Yeah, that's the thing I love about you, Andy, is, you know, even over our texts over the years and just every time I see you in person, it's like you're so real.

And you share, like, your struggles with me. Like, man to man, you're like, things are great, but I'm also working on this and it's challenging. Yeah, I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah, exactly. And that's what's like,

it makes you so much more relatable and I appreciate that about you and our friendship. Likewise, bro. I mean, that's why I think you and I connect so good. Yeah, exactly. And people, you know, I think it comes down to, man, and this is going to be an awesome book for anybody to read, man or woman,

because I feel like maybe you and I have gone through this process organically, but not everybody does. Right. They get stuck. Like I said, you know, their parents tell them, especially their moms, and we're talking about men now, you know, hey, you know, do this and have a big heart and care about people and do the right thing. And you go to school and you get shoved in a locker because they're like, you're a pussy.

You know what I mean? So you got to toughen up and get strong. Toughen up. And then you stay in that state your whole entire life. And and that's where a lot of guys get stuck. Yeah. And it's a shame because there I recognize that. I know you do, too. Like you recognize it immediately. Like when I see a dude who's like trying to be that dude and I can see right through it yeah and it sucks because I feel sorry for them because I know that they're never going to be able to truly understand the eyes let me say this the chances of them ever truly understanding how to really be what they want to be is very slim

because they're not willing to let people see who they are. Unless they get a wake-up call, unless they have something in their life where it's a near-death experience, where there's something, a breakup, a breakdown, breakthrough for them to be like a catalyst to be aware. Right. And that's what happened to me. I got in this fight.

I was going through a traumatic breakup and I was like, something's not working. I need to figure this out. So after two years of working with Andy, if somebody asked me, I would say all of the negative energy, all of the fire, all of the, all of the stuff you see Andy putting out is, is a competitive spirit, ultimately motivated by a commitment to excellence. What it seems like in your life, you discovered was how to rid yourself of the same negative energy and motivation, but one that was not rooted in excellence. It was rooted in insecurity.

Yeah, it was. That's my take. Definitely. And that's why you feel sorry for those people too, because you know that they're fucking so unhappy on the inside. Exactly. They're angry. It's not even, it's not even a happy, it's pure anger.

Something happened to those people. They got made fun of they got dumped they got you know they went through a traumatic experience like we talked like you talked about or like yeah and he's like it's never gonna happen again they went through this crazy shit and they're just they're angry and like dude um they're afraid to let people know what it is and the truth of it is is if they let people know and they came out it would inspire people to follow them you know dude share your story share the things that hurt you those are the things that make people relate to you and that's what builds a brand that's it you know and it's not just about business but you know my brand and your brand this is who we are 24 hours a day yeah

like it's funny because people like people will say to Emily, they're like, well, is he like that at home? Well, you know, I might not be yelling and screaming and shit, but you know, I'm, I'm pretty like you're passionate. Yeah.

I'm a passionate dude. I'm just intense by nature. And, uh, but I'm not like, Hey, you know, those cookies were nine out of 10.

You need to fucking do 10 out of 10. Like, that's not how it works, man. Like, I'm just happy to get some cookies, you know? But, uh, but you know, I think I think also to your point, Vaughn, you know, for our mission here, which has always been to reverse the idea that everybody wins, everybody's special, everybody's a delicate flower.

That's been our mission. So delivering a tough message that says hey man look we know it's fucking tough i've been through this shit you know what you got to pull your fucking boots back on you got to get back out in the fucking game yeah that's the message here yeah all right it has it has nothing to do with you know being this tough guy it's about being mentally tough that's it you know and one of the ways that you get the most mentally tough is by being comfortable and confident with who you are. And one of the ways you do that is by sharing with other people who you are. And most people just never go through that process. They never, and dude, I'm so glad you wrote this book because there's really nothing like it.

Like there's nothing, there's not a manual out there for somebody to read you know like if you if you were to and this is the ironic thing about this book if you were to fucking if anybody else were to write this book it would be called how to be a real man right you know what i'm saying exactly with the same shit on the inside yeah right but it says the mask of masculinity and it's i just dude i love that about what you're doing because it oh you got steve weatherford on here that dude's a fucking stud he is if you had called it that you would not get probably the female readers that you were talking about earlier that's why so many so many women are like right when i show them this or say the title they're like thank you they're like yes they're like oh my god it's so needed right now and you and i and and we dude we're you know a lot of the same girls i know like dude high

profile high celebrity type girls and they all you know like i've talked to these girls i'm friends with them and you should hear the shit they say about dudes like guys you're embarrassing yourselves out there by like trying to be this dude like this is something that everybody needs to read you know what i mean and uh i just think it's cool you're bringing awareness to a situation that can bring so many results in different ways to people's lives their business life their relationship how angry you are at the world like these guys are like i fucking hate everybody in the world. Well, dude, it's not that.

It's that you're mad about something that's going on inside, and what you're doing with the shit that's given to you and fed to you with the world is just turning that into that and spitting it back out. That's it, man. Yeah, it's perfect timing for this, too. Oh, with all the social unrest, for sure. There's just so much political stuff.

I mean, these killings that are just like the racial stuff. I'm just like, what is happening in our world, man? But dude, and people are like, why are all these people going fucking crazy? Well, let's be real. Let's be real for a second. If you're on social media, if you're specifically Facebook

and you spend any amount, I've cut my Facebook time down to zero. That's good. Like I'll post and then I go away. That's great. you get depressed if you're on there it's terrible and it makes it it has made a huge difference in my personal happiness as weird as it sounds to give zero time to that negative that's correct yeah yeah yeah and uh but you know instagram's a lot more positive yeah um you can choose who you're following. Yes. It's just way more positive. Yeah, yeah. You know? And I've, but let's be real, dude. We're still, the media, Facebook, social media.

Peers. Peers. All this shit is being dumped on us and none of it is positive. None of it. And when you have internal negative energy that's spewing and turning and turning. You're going to say yes to these things. Yes. Yes, they're right. Because like, dude like dude what's gonna get more likes on facebook god the world is a

beautiful place and i'm so happy today like dude i wrote and i did this as a social experiment i wrote a status two uh i don't know a week ago that said tell me something the best thing that happened to you this week it was on a friday You know what was the lowest like status I've had in like two years? I had literally 1,000 comments or some shit, like 300 likes. If I were to post, am I the only one that gets pissed off when people don't put their fucking shopping carts back? Do you know what kind of piece of shit doesn't put their shopping carts back? I would have 10,000 fucking likes on that.

You know what I'm saying? Like, dude, people vibe with the frustrations, and they don't vibe nearly enough with the good shit, which is why most people are unhappy. They're not taking the time to be grateful for what they have. They're taking all their time, all of it, and spending it looking at other people who have this fake

fucking image and saying, man, I wish I was more like that. More like what? All you got to do is fake it. You know what I'm saying? You can be that today. Like, they're all lying. Like, the people you look up to, the people that you're saying that and putting yourself in a negative spot, they're all full of shit.

I think people are so accustomed to rallying around the negativity. That's why if you post something political, you'll get a thousand comments. But if you post something like, hey, tell me the best thing that happened this week, nobody cares about that. Yeah, I noticed that. Which is funny because, dude, I read the comments and they were awesome. The comments made me feel fucking good. That's great. And they were awesome. Like the comments made me feel fucking good. You know, it was, it's just, I just consciously,

I'm working on putting my energy into places that I'm going to get good feedback. That's good. You know what I mean? And not on negative, because I preach that, right? Like don't let the negativity bother you. But sometimes it bothers you without you being aware that it's bothering you. You know what I'm saying? Absolutely.

Absolutely. Like, dude, it's energy. It's not something you control. Like, if you have people or situations or habits in your life that are putting negative energy into you, don't think that you're going to be able to somehow put up your negative energy shield and still tolerate it. Like, it's still going to affect you, you know?

And that's been a big, big thing. I don't know how we got on this tangent. No, it's good. I'm glad you actually mentioned the title of the book. I feel like we haven't done that as much as we should. So I'm going to mention it one more time. It's the mask of masculinity. And the subtitle is how men can embrace vulnerability, create strong relationships and live their fullest lives. And Lewis, this isn't out until Halloween, right? On Halloween, we take off the mask. Okay. Nice. It's a come as yourself party. Right. Right. But you, but obviously people can

go to Amazon and purchase it right now. You can pre-order it or whenever this is out. Yeah. Sounds good. And I, you know, I don't want to take this for granted. Some of you may be brand new to the, to the podcast and not know who Lewis is. So your social contacts are what? Just at Lewis Howes everywhere, you know, whatever. L-E-W-I-S. H-O-W-E-S. Okay. Great. This is great. Well, you know, you always ask at the end of one of your podcasts, what's your definition of greatness? What's your definition of our greatness? I'm being stupid.

Of our greatness? No, actually, what I was going to ask, of my greatness. No, actually, I did want to ask you, because I don't know that I've ever heard you summarize it. This is a success and motivation podcast. Yeah. What's your definition of success? I think everyone gets to define success for themselves. And that's why, for me, I use the word greatness because I think it's different for everyone.

It's not like success is usually about achievement. I think greatness is about more of a feeling. It's a feeling of knowing that you're on the right path. So my definition of greatness is discovering the unique gifts and talents within you to pursue your dreams. And in that pursuit, making the maximum impact you can on people around you. And for me, that's what I feel like greatness is. You've given some thought to this. I have.

People have asked me many times. Yeah, yeah. But I think success and greatness can be similar. It all depends on how you want to define it yourself. Yeah, I think it's definitely a touchy subject for people. Because especially when you take a stance on it, like if you have a podcast, say this is what I think it is, realize that what you said is the truth it doesn't matter what i think it is it's what you think it is and i had somebody on social last night because i posted a video about

that said there's not much nobility in being broke and insignificant and that's not i could have used better words what i really mean when i say that is this there's no nobility and unfulfilling your own potential absolutely and every single person and i say that comment the way i said it because every single person that has a fucking cell phone has the ability to not be broke okay so that's where that's coming from. But the point is, is that I personally think that success is Greatness and success are two different things and I think success, you know As I say is the pursuit of fulfillment of one's true potential Hmm, and that's how I define it because it's gonna be different for everybody. Yeah, you were born under different circumstances

I was born. Yeah, we all start at different places So you cannot identify success as money or car this or that and if you do you're you're going to be very unfulfilled at the end of the day yeah it's about the process and you know that sounds corny when you're 19 years old it's about the journey because you haven't been on a fucking money right now yeah but i wouldn't trade my journey for fucking any amount of money yeah you know what i mean and greatness you know i think the definition you gave a greatness is perfect like i love that like you know um there's lots of people who are successful that aren't great you know yeah so i think it's a i

think it's a it's a good call yeah like that you know there's lots of people that make lots of money that make zero impact on other people it's true you know i have zero fulfillment that aren't following their dreams that aren't yeah right it right. It's totally possible. Now I always try to tell people like, Hey, look, you know, the way you make the most money is by, is by creating the most value. And I feel like that's true, but that's also a new truth because of the way media is now conducted with social media and feedback and all that. There's lots of people out there that have billions of dollars that made them 30, 40 years ago that didn't do anything to really trading stocks or something like that you know yeah so um you know if you can have both that's that's a pretty good thing yeah yeah there's

nothing wrong with both around with it yeah you know you know when we talk about like when you talk about the mask of uh material material mask um you know, people hear that sometimes and they, they think, well, it's not, well, is it not a good thing for me to have material goals? No, it's a great, I'm all for it. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great thing, but it's a bad thing when you make it the focus of who the fuck you are. Yeah. It's your identity. Exactly. And that's, that's something that, well, a lot of people do, you know, they, like, I see this on Instagram a lot, dude, with some pretty wealthy business guys, their their whole their whole brand is like promoting high-end shit like they're they're fucking you know a hundred thousand dollar ap or they're they're

rolls royce you know they're five rolls royces or this or that. And it's like, dude, we get it. We get it. We get it. We got, you got some money and you think you have taste. I get it. But how about we talk about how the fuck you got there? How are we talking about the struggles you went through? How will we talk about this or that?

And if they did that, their, their fan base, their following and their, their fulfillment would all go up. It's just a hard thing for people to, it's a hard thing for people to grasp because it's counterintuitive. Society says we have to be this guy, you know, the big muscle guy, the tough guy, the puffy guy with the beard

and wearing a fucking lumberjack coat. You know what I'm saying? Like, but the truth of it is, is that has nothing to do with it. That's just bullshit. Yeah. You know? I agree.

So I think it's really cool that you took the opportunity and that you're using your platform uh you know being a new york times bestseller and and your social platform and all the following that you have because you could you you literally could have wrote 50 other business books a lot you know i'm saying that's when my agent and my publisher wanted me to do and i was just like i'm not feeling it but this this is a legacy book yeah that's how i see it yeah you know i'm saying this hasn't been written before yeah and i think it's awesome that you did that thank you thank you so uh it's a short read right yeah quick yeah so i mean dude where are they gonna where you want to buy it on amazon you can get it amazon mask of masculinity.com you can get it you know all the links are there for

barnes and noble and amazon but wherever you know barnes and noble amazon wherever you want to yeah plug it up bro yeah mask of masculinity.com yeah yeah so guys uh first of all lewis thank you man it's always good to see you it's a fun conversation it's quite different than i always love our conversations like it's it's you know i'm you're lucky enough and I'm lucky enough to have, uh, you know, amazing contacts and relationships and, and guests and things like that and talk to, but I will say having you on the show is one of my favorite times because we do have, it's real conversations. This is the shit we'd be talking about if this, these weren't here.

Exactly. Microphones weren't here. We'd be having this discussion for hours. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and that's what I appreciate about you, bro. We'd be having this discussion. For hours. Right. Yeah, yeah. And that's what I appreciate about you, bro. I appreciate it, man. So thank you for stopping by.

Thanks, man. Best of luck with the book. Drinking gluten-free beer, right? Huh? Drinking gluten-free beer. Yeah. Well, Lewis doesn't drink. I don't drink.

Oh, that's right. You don't drink. You drink gluten-free beer. But I'm pretty sure he'd be happy to sit here while we drank and then he could make fun of us. So. I appreciate you guys. Thank you very much, man course man um guys mask of masculinity

mask of masculinity.com go check it out uh we will be back on thursday with thursday thunder uh vaughn any anything housekeeping things just a reminder testimonials at the mfco.com we've gotten a lot of really great ones, but keep them coming. All right, cool. All right, guys, thank you for listening. We appreciate you, and we'll see you next time.