REAL AF with Andy Frisella - The Top 5 Ways to Overcome Social Anxiety in Sales, with Andy Frisella - MFCEO225

Episode Date: March 27, 2018

Anybody who is in business has experienced anxiety over the sales process. That’s normal. What’s also normal is that the people who can’t overcome that anxiety are going to crash & burn in business. That's too bad. Because there’s no reason that social anxiety over sales has to torpedo anyone’s dream of building a multi-million-dollar business. There are proven ways of dealing with your fear & getting to the point you actually enjoy the sales process. That’s what we talk about in today’s podcast.

I can stack them hundreds to the roof. I ain't stopping till they stack to the moon. Without me, my family wouldn't have food. Anybody go against me, gotta lose. What is up, guys? You're listening to the MFCEO Project. I'm Andy. I'm your host, and I am the motherfucking CEO. Today, we're going to talk about sales, which is something that you have to learn. It's one of the key skills that we talk about as having to learn to break into and beyond six-figure income, all right? And the other two are leadership and management. We talk about this in past podcasts.

Vaughn could throw the notes up in the description. But we're going to cover five practical steps that I think hold people back from becoming great salespeople that all have to do with social anxiety. Most people cannot get through the first call, the first five calls that they're going to make, and they decide that sales isn't for them. And the thing that you have to understand is that if everybody quit first five calls, there will be no great salespeople. Okay. Now, with that being said, you're going to hear people say things like, oh, you got to do a hard close and you got to do this. And you got, there's a lot of old school bullshit, not applicable strategies. When it comes to sales. You know, you're going to hear people say, you got to call people till they give in. You've got to this, that, the other. I disagree

100%. The key to sales is making sure that you build so much value with what you're delivering that it's not even sales. It's a recommendation. And when you can make it a recommendation, they are going to buy. You don't have to close them. They're going to close you. And that's the way it goes. We're going to get more in depth with that as we go. But that's the gist of what we're going to talk about. Five ways to overcome social anxiety in sales and in life. Because dude, the reality is, is when you get good at sales, other areas of your life improve as well. As always, I'm joined by my co-host, Vaughn the Impaler, the pastor of disaster. What's up, dude? I'm doing good, man.

I'm hoping before you hit those five key ways to overcome social anxiety and sales, I'm hoping kind of in the process of that, you're going to actually share your own personal development, you know, like from the time you started, cause I know you've told people a lot of times that one of the main misunderstandings that people have about you is thinking that you're this like super outgoing people person by nature, you know? Yeah. Um, I'm not, you know, people don't realize that I'm an introvert by nature. I really don't like being around people. I really don't like interacting with people. Uh, but the good thing about that is that it's a learned skill, you know, and people will hear me speak. They see me in action. They see what I do and they think,

Oh man, he's got this natural ability. And I don't, that's stuff that I've had to learn. You know, um, the first time I had to go around and try to sell things when I was a little kid, I was scared shitless. But the reality of it was, is that I wanted the reward more than I was scared shitless of what I had to do to get it. And I've always been that way. So, you know, it comes down to what do you want more? Do you want to be scared? Is that more important to you to not embarrass yourself? Because you're gonna, you're gonna embarrass yourself. You're gonna do are, um, you know, goofy and weird and you're going to put your foot in your mouth and you're going to fuck up. Or do you want the reward?

And I was just always willing to go, you know, through whatever I had to do to get the reward. That seems to be a, a definite, uh, similarity in every successful person is that they're willing to do something badly until they master it. Yeah. And you know, the point, you know, to me now, I enjoy being bad at things now because it allows me to go through the process of learning. And I think the process of learning is contagious. I think if you could teach yourself to be a good student, to be a good learner, it becomes something that you crave in all areas. So like being bad at something.

Yeah, when I was young and immature, it was something that I was afraid of. But now it's something I enjoy because I like learning new things. I see it as a challenge. And when it's something's a challenge for me, it actually is a mental break from the day to day today things that I have to do to run my company. So, you know, I like being challenged in that way now, but, you know, some people never get to that point. So, in terms of social anxiety, in your experience, what are some main reasons that people are nervous, not at ease, that maybe don't have anything to do with them per se, but maybe, well, let me start over. What are some just basic reasons that people might be anxious

that should not be true of them? Well, go ahead. Well, dude, the number one thing that holds salespeople back, that keeps them from being effective is that they're not selling a product or service that they truly believe in from a moral standpoint. They feel slimy. They feel snaky. They feel like they're some sort of slick back sales guy trying to trick somebody into buying something. But the truth of it is, is that, you know, even though for the last hundred years, um, up until about 10 years ago, that's what sales was, right?

There was no repercussions, uh, from social media or review sites or the general population. They had no repercussions. So there was a lot of people out there that had slick sales techniques that were selling shit that wasn't any good. And there's a lot of people who haven't started to understand that that shit doesn't work now. Okay. Um, so if you're feeling bad about what you're selling and if you're scared about what you're selling, if you're having anxiety about what you're selling, there's a good likelihood that you truly don't believe in your heart that it's benefiting the people that you're selling, which is twofold bad. One, you're not going to be able to sell it. You're going to feel nervous every time you

talk to somebody about it because you know it's not the right thing. And two, if it doesn't deliver what you say it's going to deliver and it's not the quality you say it is, you're going to ruin your reputation by even selling that stuff. So if you're feeling nervous about selling and it's because you know that the product isn't doing what it's supposed to do or it doesn't serve the purpose that it's supposed to serve, you shouldn't be selling it. Because not only will it ruin,

not only will it be totally torturous to go through, but you're going to ruin your own reputation by being associated with that product anyway yeah i mean what would you tell somebody who was who was like andy i totally get it but i need a job so i took this job i think the product's crap but i need to you know i need to pay the bills look man there's plenty of jobs out there that's the truth and if you look you know if you look in the area of stuff that you believe in, the things that you believe in at your core, you're going to find opportunities there. You know, that's just the truth. And, you know, people

will argue with that. Oh, there's not opportunities. There's not this, there's not that bullshit. There is, there's a lot of them. You're just not, you're taking the first thing that you can, you know, gets offered to you and you're not working to put value into something that, uh, that you want to be doing that you believe in. And that's, that's the essential, you know, gets offered to you and you're not working to put value into something that, uh, that you want to be doing that you believe in. And that's, that's the essential, you know, core problem. You know, you have a lot of people out there and this is really the second reason why people have problems selling a product services because they're not actual customers of what they're selling. You know, for you to truly believe in something, you have to be represent, you have to

be representative of what that product is about. There's that old saying for the hair club for men or something where the guy's like, I'm not only the president, I'm also a client. And as funny as that is, and we all hear that, the truth of it is that's how it should be. It's actually brilliant. Yes. You should be using your company's products in some way or form because you love them, not because you're told that you have to use them. Okay. So what I would recommend for the person you said who needs to get a job is look at what

you love. Look at what you have passion for. Look at what you're into from a product standpoint. Figure out how you can get yourself in a position to be selling that because you're by default going to be much more effective and much more enthusiastic and much more successful dollars and cents wise than you would be selling something that you don't use or don't believe in. It's just, it's just reality. Yeah. You know, it's funny. I was, I was working in here in the conference room and Jarrett was on a phone call with a potential,

I guess, independent rep or whatever. Yeah. And Yeah, and the conversation got a little awkward at one point in which he said, what's your favorite first form product? And the guy's like, well, I know they're quality products. Yeah, you're not getting hired, bro. Yeah, he's like, well, no, but do you use them? And he explained that that's what we're about. We're not just about the objective quality.

We want everybody involved in us to love the product and use it. Yep, and that's a big thing for our company. We don't bring in people that don't actually use our products, which is not what we do. Well, how can you be enthusiastic about something that you're not? You can fake it, but eventually, some people can fake it to a point, but the truth of it is that once they go up with someone with true conviction and true belief, they get stopped.

You know what I mean? So it's very, very important to be genuine. And that comes to my, you know, my, these three points kind of all go together is, you know, one, you're not selling a product or service that you truly believe in. Two, you're not selling a product or service that you use yourself. And three, you're not selling from a place of integrity. Okay. If you know that the product or service is the best product or service in that space, you believe in it, you use it. You are going to have zero anxiety talking to other people about it. Okay. That's where people mess up. They're foundationally fucked when it comes to what they pick and choose to actually sell. If you work for a company and you don't believe in the company, you should not be working there.

You're going to automatically struggle at sales because we as humans want to do the right thing. We have an essential need to do the right thing. And yes, there's people out there that are snakes and slime and this, and they become good talkers of sales. But those people are only good when there's somebody that's not around that actually believes in the product they're selling, right? When you stand them alone, they sound real good. Put them next to somebody who has real passion and is selling from a place of integrity. And the person with the passion and integrity is going to take them to school. It's just the way it goes. Let me throw in a little question because I know people are going to ask this. What about the guy,

and it sounds like I'm trying to be funny. I'm really not. But what about the guy who says, Andy, I totally get what you're saying, but here's the deal. I am in the mortuary business and I sell tombstones for a living. Literally, I sell tombstones. I don't have any personal experience. I can't benefit personally from tombstones. Like, I don't have any personal experience. I can't benefit personally from tombstones. So how would you translate that into an industry where it's not like something you can personally sample, you know? What are you talking about?

Okay, so you were saying, like, in your industry, you say if you don't use the product yourself... You have to look to find the benefit then. That's what I'm talking about. So then you're going to have to look to find the benefit then that's what i'm talking so so then you're gonna have to dig and find what the benefit is where you know you look at the product and you say all right this is a quality product these people are doing great work they're doing a great service for people they're making people feel good in the best possible situation and they're doing it the right way so then you can honestly look at it and even though you might not have used the product yourself you're coming from a place of true

belief and true integrity personal connection yes i gotcha gotcha makes sense yeah i don't know what the fuck you're even asking dude i guess that's a good question i don't know but you know i think the biggest thing man is that people got to understand one you have to be coming from the right place no matter what you got to believe you've got to be using the product. Okay. Uh, for the most part, 99.9% of that's going to cure most of the anxiety that you're going to have with sales. Um, but I think that even deeper than that, I think the biggest problem that we have as people who are trying to learn sales is that we look at other people and think that they have a natural ability to be extroverted and charismatic about sales. And let me tell you something.

I'm not a natural extrovert. Okay. So like success for me has very little to do with being naturally outgoing. I get social anxiety. I don't like being around crowds. I hate taking pictures. I don't like all that shit. Like that shit fucking drives me crazy. I know that it's necessary. So I do it right. And I do it happily because I'm trying to make people happy, but dude, it doesn't mean I like it or it's natural for me. It's a skill that I've had to learn. And I think there's so many people, and I made a post about this the other day regarding people who are out there slash gurus who are trying to make themselves look as if they're so much naturally more skilled than anybody else out there. You know, I've got this special hustle. I've got this special gift. I've got this special charisma. I've got this special skill of sales, this, that, the other, because their own ego is so fucking fragile that they need to make other people indirectly feel like shit to make them feel like they're better. And dude, that's

fucked up because I could tell you, dude, everybody out there struggles with this shit at some point. Are there some people who pick it up better than others? Absolutely. But there's nobody out there struggles with this shit at some point. Are there some people who pick it up better than others? Absolutely. But there's nobody out there that has such a great gift to become a really good salesperson that didn't practice their fucking ass off, that didn't make the calls, that didn't take the reps. And that issue with people trying to pretend like they just came out of the womb that way is making other entrepreneurs, especially people who are new to the game, feel like they're not in the right spot. And that bothers me on a moral level. I don't think that's right. You know what I'm saying?

100%. I saw the other day one of these gurus had posted something about nothing ever gets me down. And like literally I'm reading this going, seriously? Okay, you're either one, you're lying. He is lying. Or two. I don't even know what you're talking about, but they're lying. Well, okay, but just playing devil's advocate or two let's say by some freak of

nature like he's too dumb to let's say just he just doesn't have the intelligence right to even be down my thing is what does it possibly benefit other people to tell them that doesn't it hurts them right right so like but that's that's what social media is. Social media is fucking smoking mirrors to make certain people look like they have more skills than certain other people so that you can somehow get, so people can herd the sheep together and get them to buy their shit. And dude, that's what it's about. You know what I'm saying? It's fucked up. And, uh, so, so you were saying that you're not a natural extrovert, but what if somebody says, yeah, but Andy, you are a ninja with words and you're like, yeah, but how many fucking, dude, I used to give sales talks to six people

whenever we had our, you know, our first started doing meetings. I'd get deathly nervous to talk to six people. I'd be holding my notes and I'd be, they'd be shaking in my hand and I'd be terrified. Okay, dude, now I'm going out in front of 15,000 people and fucking, I don't even need notes and I don't have any one bit of nervousness. It's just, it's practice, man. It's, it's, it's understanding the product, understanding what you're selling, knowing the product, believing in the product and having having repetitions wherever you're trying to do. And eventually that anxiety and all that's going to fade away and it's just going to be something that you're talking about. So there's no need to be born with some natural eloquence.

No, there's no such thing. There's no such thing, man. And like other things, too, is people think that to be great at sales, they have to be super well-polished. Go to any big city around lunchtime and you see all these dudes in suits and shit, you know, and they speak a certain way and talk a certain way and this, that, the other. The funny thing is, is that those people aren't as well received as somebody who's super authentic, right? Somebody who is just who they are. They're

telling the truth. You could tell they're telling the truth and they don't have to be polished. They don't have to wear a suit. They don't have to say things the most politically correct way. They just, you just know they're telling the truth because the authenticity is oozing out of them. You know what I mean? And that's the most important sales skill because for people to want to buy from you, they've got to trust you and authenticity creates trust automatically. So you have to understand that, you understand that when you try to polish up who you are and make it more polished than what you really are, you're really taking back the authenticity of what somebody's going to pick up on and you're removing and slowing down the sales process because without trust, there is no sale.

So if it takes somebody longer to trust you because you're polishing yourself up, you're actually doing yourself a disservice. You understand? Makes sense. But the problem with that is that people are going to hear that and they're going to think that you need to go drop the F-bomb and this and that. That's not it. Dude, you just have to be who you are. You know what I mean? Being authentic is not saying the word fuck.

That's what people think it is. You know, they hear, they hear people talk about authenticity, including me. And they think, oh, well then I got a curse. And I got, no, it has nothing to do with that. That's just exactly how I am. It's about finding who you are and being that and presenting things in a real world way. You know? Absolutely. It's, it's whatever thought is in your brain, express it like it's in your brain. Don brain express it like it's in your brain don't express it like people like you think people want to hear it right and that's that's where people screw up and then they cut all their words come out jumbled and weird you know what gets me is like you go to like you go to a sales conference and they break down the sales like the the opening

the pitch the the clothes this that the other dude look man this you don't need that shit anymore all you got to do is be real and have a real product and talk to people about it you know so basically the myths are one that you have to be an extrovert you got to be like naturally energized by people too i think you said a myth is that you have to be super well polished and eloquent and yeah and the other thing is think you said a myth is that you have to be super well-polished and eloquent. Yeah. And the other thing is, is that dude, people think that, that if you're a great salesman, that you're some kind of greedy, money hungry motherfucker. And that's not true, dude. I did not make any money the first 10 years in business. You know why? Because I was worried

about how much I was selling. I was worried about selling as much possible product as I could. And I was constantly sell, sell, sell, sell, sell. And when I decided, I went through this weird phase where we weren't making any money. And I was like 10 years into our company and we weren't making any money. It was kind of like a soul searching make or break situation where I, I needed to know, like, am I going to keep doing this or am I going to move on to do something else? And, you know, I always wanted to make a lot of money growing up. I've talked about that a lot here on the podcast, but I wasn't making it. And, uh, I got to a point where I was like, you know,

I've got to figure out either something to do because I'm never going to get where I want to go. Or I've just got to, I've got to, you know, just think about what I like about this job. And I've looked at all these other things possibly to do, and I couldn't, I didn't like them. And the reason I didn't like them was because there was literally no chance for me to truly change someone's life. Like, like when somebody would come in to my retail store and buy some vitamins and supplements and I got them on a program and then I would see them three, four, five, six months later and they would have tears in their eyes explaining how much it meant to them. Like they've lost 100 pounds or they've lost 50 pounds or they've lost 150 pounds or they've, they've gotten healthier or some, or there, or something changed dramatically in their

life. And then they talk about the confidence that was built and the self-esteem that was built and how their life has changed. I couldn't think of anything other than what we do that, that does that. And, um, I decided that I was going to stick with it and I just kind of gave up on money. I kind of like said, you know, I really like cool shit, but you know what? I don't want to, I don't want to lose this aspect of my business cause I loved it, you know? And, uh, and so I decided that like, I didn't care if I made money, I decided like, you know what? I don't care if I make any money. What I'm going to do is I'm going to just help as many people as I possibly can. And, uh, I focused on helping people get on the right nutrition program,

uh, take the right products and get the best results possible. And I gave all my focus to that, all of it. And a funny thing happened. I started making money. And for the next five years, I doubled my business every single year in the worst economy, United States history. Okay. All because I flipped the switch in my brain from trying to sell to trying to help. And wherever you are in the sales process or whatever it is that you're doing or whatever it is that you're selling, chances are it provides a real solution. Okay. And that real solution, you probably haven't even really thought about it because you're so focused on selling. And some people are like, well, what is selling someone? Um, you know, what's the, what's the

solution of selling someone a new pair of Jordans? Like they don't even play basketball. Well, there is a solution there. They feel fucking cool whenever they wear them. Okay? The solution does not need to be overthought. You need to think what the solution is and you need to start gearing yourself towards providing that solution, whatever it may be. And if you look hard enough and long enough and start communicating after you've found that solution, you're going to find that people are super happy. And what are they going to do when they're super happy?

One, they're not going to shop anywhere else. And two, they're going to refer their friends and family to you, which is going this podcast for sure, but long before that, that while money used to be a sign of people who were greedy and morally misaligned, it's now become a sign of people who serve and people who help and people who solve the most problems. Because the truth of it is, is if you're greedy and morally misaligned, people are going to find out immediately that we can, we have too much interconnectivity, too much network, too much ability to share information, to be able to pull one over on people, so to speak. So, you know, going about it the wrong way is really just going to shoot your holes in the bottom of your boat quicker. So the real own way to make an empire now is to create a situation where people are thrilled, they're satisfied, they're happy with the service, and they're excited about it to spread it to other people. Quoting or, you know, a.k.a. doing the right thing, you know, and a lot of people can't tie that together when I talk about it because they think I'm like talking some hippie shit, but I'm not, you know, it's really indicative of doing the

right thing. How much money you're making money is the evidence and byproduct that you're bringing value to the world. Absolutely. No question. And what you do with it is up to you, whatever, give it away. If you don't like it, I don't care. But how much money you make right now is in direct proportion to how much value, how much problems you're solving and how much value you're providing. It just is. All right. So let's get down to the nuts and bolts, the tips and tactics. What do we got to do to overcome anxiety? Well, look, I think it's important to note, like again, I said this earlier, but I think it's important for people to understand that feeling anxiety when you first start anything is fucking normal, right? That

doesn't mean you weren't born for it. Like anytime you do anything new, you're going to feel anxious. You're going to feel frustrated. You're going to feel scared and you're probably going to suck at it. And for that reason, especially when it comes to sales, because we have so many dumbasses out there trying to portray themselves as superior skilled people, that it makes people shy away from the skill of sales. When in reality, if they would just work through the first couple of things, they would figure it out and do really well. And it can make a huge impact on your life because when you're confident in how you could sell things, you're also very confident in talking to people. You're confident in social situations, even if you don't like them. So it's an important skill to develop. But I think, you know, the biggest thing that people need to do is they need to stop thinking and start moving. Okay.

And this, this principle applies across the board in any human interaction. The more you think about it, you know, approaching someone or calling someone or sending that email, the more you're going to get in your own head and imagine what the worst possible outcome could be. You know, dude, the key of it is just like dial your phone or send the fucking email and get it over with. All right. And people are, they, they build up this whole like worst case doomsday scenario in their head that they can never even make that first call or send that first email or reach out that first time and shake someone's hand. The truth of it is, is like, you know, those people, if you're selling the right thing, like what we talked about, you're doing the right thing. Those people probably need your solution.

And you have to start understanding that you're not the right thing. Those people probably need your solution. And you have to start understanding that you're not the first person in the world to ever sell something. You're not the first person in the world to ever call on somebody whenever you have something to sell, you know? And I think people think that they're like, fuck dude, I'm going to call this dude and he's going to motherfuck me up and down. And this is that, you know what? He might, and he might blow you off and you're going to get motherfucked and you're going to get blown off and you're going to get fucking tension from selling. But the truth is, is that you need to look at it as do you're getting better every single at

bat. You know what I mean? Right. Well, it's a long term play. It's like the guy in the bar who sits in the corner and looks at the hot check. Oh yeah.

And just like, dude, what's my first line? What's my first line? One of the most valuable things for people is, is, is, is dating. Because if you learn how to sell, you'll learn how to date properly. Yeah. Right. And that goes for girls and guys. Like if you learn how to interact and you learn how to sell, you learn how to present value and what it is you have to offer both personally or in your product, you're going to have a lot better

time dating and meeting people, which means you're going to meet more quality people, which means your life is going to inherently be better over the course of it. Right. You know, so sales is a huge skill that the key, the key to that situation is to get the fuck up off your barstool and walk over and say, Hey, how are you doing? I'm Andy. Right. And then you know what, whatever the fuck happens from there happens, you'll figure it the fuck out. You know what I mean? You don't have to have some cheesy line because, dude, here's where people fuck up. They sit there and they're like, oh, well, should I say this? If I say this, well, she says this.

And they try to plan out this fucking thing in their head. How about this, man? How about go over, reach your fucking hand out and say, hey, I'm Vaughn. I just wanted to meet you and let it go. Right. You know what? And she might be fucking rude and it might it might be weird but the truth is everybody's weird and everybody's awkward and everybody's uncomfortable so just getting up and

doing it says something about who you are the the athletic analogy is good too i mean when's when are teams the most nervous right before the game right yeah once the yeah dude it's because it's because action cures anxiety yeah all right like when you move and you start moving towards where you want to go, it's just like whenever you have a messy office or something. Right. And you walk by it like three or four times. You're like, fuck, dude, it's making me like it's annoying me. What happens when you start to go clean it?

It goes away. All right. Same thing when you're on the barstool and there's a girl and you're looking at her and you're like, gosh, she's hot. And you're starting to do you got to get up and and go right then you have to get up and go and say hi otherwise you're gonna talk yourself out of it and at least if you go up there you could walk out and be like dude I was at least I was a grown man and I went and did that you know what I mean and action just cures it you know like in football if you ever played football dude after

the first hit the game the anxiety is gone you know it's just it just does it's the way it goes the reason i think that's so helpful is because i do think the vast majority of people on this planet they are kind of insecure they are kind of self-conscious no everybody is yeah and if you're the person that just makes the first move you're gonna appreciate that and if you're the person who makes the first move in in the face of your own anxiety in your own insecurities people respect that they don't look at it as like oh you're some cocky dude they do if you go up with some bullshit line but like dude you know people respect that even even the opposite sex when you're trying to date like they just respect it dude talk about this because i know you'd have a lot to say about this i don't think most people understand that customers are

very often self-conscious you know absolutely yeah like i don't think people think when you're a sales you don't think like well my customer's kind of self-conscious dude when i go into like i'm not a handy guy so when i go into home improvement or what is it home depot you're intimidated i'm like crap what am i doing yeah and then you go up and you try to ask the question and the sale and you're afraid to ask because you're afraid to look at stupid, you know? And we all have been there, whether it be, you know, my business is really like, like really like that because people come in, they're not happy with their body. They're not happy with their shape. They're not happy and they don't know anything about what we're doing. So they come in and they're super nervous and super intimidated,

which makes it really important for us to like really make them feel at home. So you have to be aware of that. Like, you know, and that could go in a social situation. It could go when you're selling something. It could go in a ton of situations, but just make getting on somebody's side and making them feel comfortable is a huge deal. Yeah. Because it cures anxiety for both parties. You see what I'm saying? It's kind of funny because I think of what they always say about animals.

You know, they're more afraid of you than you are of them, you know? Well, how do they know that? That's a good question. I think when they say that about snakes, it's not really true. No, I agree. Yeah. Yeah, I agree, man. But I mean, like, dude, what do they do?

Like, they have a fucking Cesar Millan at the dog just saying, hey, I'm really afraid of you. They get the mental telepathy. Yeah, I don't know, dude. I agree, man. But I mean, like, dude, what do they do? Like Caesar Milan at the dog just said, Hey, I'm really afraid of you. Yeah. I don't know, dude. I don't know how they come up with that. But yeah, man, you know, I think just jumping in, uh, and to, and doing, making the calls, making the emails, going right at it, attacking the anxiety is what's going to help the biggest and the fastest in the sales process. You know, the next thing, the second step of this is like, dude, you got to ask a lot of questions. You know, if you're afraid of talking, ask questions, get the other person to open up. Because if there's one thing that people love, it's to talk about themselves and their problems. All right.

And whatever you're selling is probably going to solve a problem. And since they're in the context of talking to you right here on the spot in this store or on this website or whatever, and you represent a potential solution, whether it be like health related or feeling cool or transportation or whatever, whatever we, whatever we find the solution to be, they're likely to talk about those problems. And that's going to give you ammunition to help address their needs. So you don't have to have the spiel. You just got to almost be a great interviewer. You know what I mean? You've got to be someone who can ask questions to figure out, you know, where are these people, where their heads at, where they're coming from. And the truth is, is if you're, like we said, if you're one of the people

who uses the product, who believes in the product, who this, that you're going to relate to those people because they're going to ask shit. They're going to answer your questions in a way that reminds you of some of the problems that you used to have before you discover this amazing product. And you're going to be able to be like this. Oh dude, I totally get that. I was just like that when I started. You know what? I totally relate to that. That was me. I was like that. But you know what? I discovered this. And let me show you a little bit about that. Right. And you start talking about what you're doing. And then, you know, it develops into a conversation versus versus you selling. And a lot of people don't want to sell and they don't they don't do good at sales because they think that they have

to have the quote unquote pitch because that's what all the fucking sales gurus say. Well, dude, that's not true. People buy from their friends and they want to have a conversation from a friend's standpoint about the product. So the quicker that you can relate to them, and which should be easy

if you believe in the product and you use the product, the quicker they're going to trust you and the quicker you can have a real conversation without feeling like you've got to pressure them into the sale which by the way that shit is old as fuck it doesn't work anymore there's two other too many other options what i love about the question thing is you're you're asking people to open up they're sharing information and then you can take that information and to me the analogy i always use is is like a rally and a tennis match it's you can take that information. And to me, the analogy I always use is like a rally in a tennis match. It's, you know, request some information, reveal some information.

That's it. Back and forth. That's it. And that establishes rapport. That's it. You know? Dude, it's that easy. Yeah.

And there's no pressure to it. It's natural. It's really natural. That's the other thing about having people's good intentions in mind and having integrity is that whenever you do the right thing and you know you're coming from the right place, there is no pressure to sell anything. It doesn't matter. You see what I'm saying? Because you know that you're genuinely helping them. So it's important to come from that place of integrity and you're right. It is like a tennis match. It's just nice and easy back and forth and you're exchanging information to find a solution that works for everybody. And that's it. It's nothing more than that. Um, you know, I think the third thing that people do

that is do they tend to, they, this is, this happens to everybody who's in sales. Okay. They're, they have one or two or three or four or 10 interactions that are great. They go out there, they do exactly what we're saying and they and they and then they run into somebody who's like having a bad day or who's just a dick and there is there's not that many people out there who are going to be just a dick to you for no reason and they run into that person and the person kind of bites their head off right or the person's not nice to them or the person embarrasses them or you know challenges them or does something that doesn't feel good to them. And then what they do is they adjust their perception of every single customer to be

that guy, right? This guy, if I say this wrong thing, he's going to bite my fucking head off. So they start to put this story in their head that most people are mean and angry and pieces of shit, which keeps people from actually approaching other people. So now, because you had one interaction out of 10, one bad interaction out of 10, you're going to totally base your whole life based on that? It makes no sense. But that's what people do, man. And they start to assume that everybody's like that,

when in reality, they start to assume that, uh, everybody's like that when in reality they're not like that. If you put off a trustworthy, authentic vibe from a place of integrity, people are going to pick up on it. And just because this dude's dog may have died earlier in the day or his wife may have left him earlier today and he treats you like shit does not mean that the other nine people that you're going to see next are going to be good. Dude, I have the experience that about one out of every 10 people are going to be fucking dicks for one reason or another. And they're not necessarily dicks. They might just be having a bad day. I cannot tell you how many times I've been in a sales situation where someone's like been rude or bit my head off or been angry. And I've just apologized and said, hey man, look,

obviously I crossed a line. And this brings up a good point. If you ever get to that, the best way to handle it is to not argue with them, is just to recognize that they're having a bad day and just to say something like this. Hey man, uh, I didn't, however you took that, I didn't mean it like that. I'm, I was just trying to, you know, help you out and get you to where we needed to go. And if I offended you, I didn't, it wasn't intentional and I'm sorry. And just own it. And dude, you know what those people are going to say that one out of 10 person who's mean, you know what they're going to say nine times out of 10, they're going to say, dude, look, I'm having a bad day, man. I, you know, I just had a bad day. They're going to say nine times out of 10? They're going to say, dude, look, I'm having a bad day, man.

I just had a bad day. They're going to tell you what happened, and they're going to apologize back. Right. And then you're going to have one person that's going to be like, well, dude, you're being fucking this or that. And you know what? Maybe you were, and you should just listen to their advice. You know what I mean? But you can't take shit personal, and that's hard to do.

It's easy to do. Um, it's easy to say, but the truth of it is, is the more you practice, the more it bats, which is the next point of becoming, uh, that I'm going to cover of becoming someone who doesn't have anxiety with sales is fucking practice, practice, think through your, so I just had this talk with my company last night. Um, after every transaction that you have, you should be breaking it down in your head. Like even if you win, like even if you sell the product, that doesn't necessarily mean that you did the best job in the interaction. You know what I'm saying? I call it a feedback mirage. All right. Feedback mirage is this, you go to sell a product and the customer

is excited and they leave happy. But there was five other things that you could have done better. But because the customer left happy and was excited, you start to look at the end result as a judgment of your technique. And that can really screw you over because, dude, if you only look at the end result and you don't look at what got you there, now you're not getting any better. And now you're making adjustments that don't produce an accurate result. So you could be making mistakes, little mistakes, little mistakes, little mistakes, step by step by step and still getting a sale in the beginning. But as you move down the road, eventually your technique is going to get so far off that you're not producing the result of a sale. And then you're going to look and be like, dude, I'm doing the same thing I was doing. No, that's not true. That's not true. You were judging your performance based on the actual

results of the sale and how happy the customer were or was instead of basing your performance on your actual technique. And that's the difference between great salespeople and bad salespeople. Bad salespeople will go up and down. They will start out humble. They will get taught a specific way to sell. They will have success with the specific way to sell. They will start being excited about it and believe in it and they will continue to do better. And eventually they will get really good at selling. And when they get really good at selling, they'll start looking at the win as opposed to self-evaluation on the technique. All right. And whenever they look at the win and they're getting it with different technique, they don't notice. So they start to

come back down. Their skill quality goes down. All right. They're not, then they're still getting results because they're still pretty good, but they're believing it's them, not the, not the, uh, the technique that they were taught. All right. So now they're looking at the technique and they're saying, well, I can do this one and not this part and this part and not this part. Cause I can still get results with that. Well, then what happens? Their sales numbers come down and they stop having success. They move down, they move back down the hill where they get frustrated. All right. This is the equivalent. When I talk about like the ax having to be sharp, it's the equivalent of you hitting the ax on the tree for the first hour. And it's really sharp and you're chopping down

a lot of trees, but for the second hour, because you've hit so much in the same spot, you're actually doing the same thing. You're hitting in the same spot, you're swinging with the same effort, but you're actually getting zero results and you can't figure out why you're not getting the results. All right. And you're not getting the results and you'll blame the ax. You'll say, oh, this ax sucks. I need a new ax. And that's where people go, oh, this job sucks. I need a new ax. And that's where people go, oh, this job sucks. I need a new job. And instead, what they really need to do is step back, fucking put a new edge on the blade, which is self-evaluation.

Say, okay, my technique is I'm off here, I'm off here, I'm off here, right? Then when they step back up to the tree and start swinging, guess what happens? Results come back. So you have to go through the preparation and the practice and the practice can only really come in the actual sales interactions. So you've got to make the calls. You've got to send the emails. You've got to shake the hands. You've got to make the appointments and you've got to do it a lot. And what you're going to find out if you're aware is you're going to find out a way to win. And let me share a little secret with you about this. I get asked this all the time. They're like, how do you keep your ax sharp all the time? How do you avoid it ever getting dull?

There's two ways, all right? One, you got to set massive goals for yourself because no matter how good you're doing, if you start to do good, you're still going to be a million miles away from your real goals, which means you're going to self-evaluate everything that you do by default. Okay. And two, you have to go out and lose. What does that mean? You've got to go out and experience the pain of losing. If you don't know the pain of losing, you're never going to appreciate the winning, which means you're not going to be willing to sharpen the ax. Follow what I'm saying? Absolutely. So preparation and practice is the fourth thing that you've got to have and you've got to do consistently to avoid social anxiety when it comes to selling. Because after you practice enough and you've got your blade sharpened enough, you're not

going to be intimidated to go into any situation. It's just not. So bear with me because it's you know it's march madness so my mind's on basketball and sports in general but i mean is what you're saying is there's some connection to the fact that you see these hall of fame coaches and you know there's two minutes left in the game and their team is winning by 30 yeah but they're intense they're intense but they're also calling timeouts and they're still teaching. Yes. Is that kind of what you're talking about?

Yes. That's exactly what I'm talking about. That's a habit, dude. They could easily let that timeout go. Those guys are strategically calling timeouts because they're afraid they're going to lose. That's just a fucking habit. This is what we do here. We're not judging on the win. We're judging on the technique.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, it makes total sense. And it also, to your point. Dude, people who judge on the win, when they win enough, they get complacent. People who judge on the technique always win. Yeah. Follow what I'm saying? Yeah.

Yeah, I do. So, I mean, to your point, too, that it's also possible that that team was winning, not because they were doing something right but because the other team just exactly exactly that's what i'm saying yeah so like you might be able to come in and close a sale and sell something uh because the person was desperate for what you need and they leave excited not because of anything you did just because they wanted it right you know and it's the same thing with a team sport you know you could go out on a football field and score 100 points on someone that doesn doesn't mean you executed properly. Just mean it could mean they suck your level of talent.

Yeah. And if you just look at the scoreboard and say, oh, dude, we're kill everyone. So we're going to we're going to fucking crush everyone. You're going to go out and play somebody who's good and they're going to beat the shit out of you yeah so you should that's why like dude when you a good good football team they don't just throw film out the window when they win they fucking look at film harder how could we have scored more points how could we have gotten better how could we have done more and that's what champions do they do it on every opportunity at every transaction that they that they have you know my baseball coaches used to make us run polls on games that we would fucking you know murder the other team but he would point out those things like, you guys got 15 poles. Yeah, yeah, because you're not doing technique right. All great coaches coach on technique, not on the result.

So let me ask you this. Some of the greatest players, I remember I've heard Jerry Rice, that even in practice, he was finishing his routes, like all the way. Yeah. You know, he wasn't just running. He ran into the end zone. Yeah, he ran into the end zone. So obviously, players are also coached that even if they blow the whistle, you finish

your shot, right? Yeah. So what's the equivalent of that in a sales process? Well, I would say that, you know, I would say that even if a customer tells, you know, halfway through and kicks you out of their fucking office, that you follow it up with an email and say, hey, I'm sorry that I that this went this way. This was the rest of what I was going to show you. You know, again, I apologize for whatever I did that rubbed or if you're having, you know, however, whatever it is you dig. And I would always take responsibility. I would always say, dude, whatever I did to upset you, you know, I didn't mean to. And, and I would finish the pitch, you know, or the story or

whatever it is you're selling. I really believe this product could help you. Um, you know, if you want to continue the conversation, this is where to find me. I don't expect it, but you know, again, I do believe I can help you, and I'm sorry for how it went today. Yeah. Worst case scenario. The way that I interpret that is you're saying, even if you don't get the sales, stay classy.

Absolutely. It's not just about class, too. It's about self-belief. It's about putting yourself in a situation where nothing can fucking hurt you. You know what I'm saying? It's about taking the hardest possible rejections and conditioning yourself to be able to take them without it ruining your whole fucking confidence.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Sometimes you gotta laugh shit off, dude. Yeah. You know, sometimes you gotta be tough about it. Sometimes you gotta laugh about it. Whatever it is you gotta do. But the reality is,

is that most of the time if that shit happens, it's probably not your fault. It's probably because the person's upset about something else. And if you just acknowledge that, usually they'll come out and say so. Now, sometimes it is going to be your fault because some of you people don't really have much sensory acuity. And you'll say shit and do shit that isn't in tune with the signals that you're receiving back. And you're going to look stupid. But that's what happens in sales. That's part of sales is learning how to read people and respond in a way that's

effective to produce a result, you know, but if we're talking simplistic terms, just keep their interests in mind, you know what I mean? And keep their best interests in mind, keep their, what's in it for them in mind. And if you do that, the vibes that you send are going to be well received from the people that you're talking to. Follow what I'm saying? Great. Yeah. And I think, you know, the other thing that that that is a huge deal, too, man, is that, you know, a lot of people will talk about anxiety and stress and this and that. But, dude, doesn't it feel the same as excitement?

Like, doesn't excitement and anxiety feel almost the same thing yeah you know what i'm saying so like why can't you just tell yourself um you know that this is exciting i've got a great opportunity i'm excited to do this i'm excited you know a soldier when they go into battle they're fucking nervous as shit man they're about to throw up they're or that. But the truth is, is that most of these guys I know from fucking experience and ask them is that they figure out how to trick themselves into being fucking pumped to go in there and kick some ass. Yeah. And that's what you got to do in sales, man. You've got to be able to transition what you think is anxiety and stress into an exciting opportunity for you to do great. And that's it. You know, control yourself, talk. Yeah, for sure. And most people just, you know, they, they overthink it. They don't act.

Okay. Um, they don't ask questions. They feel like they have to go in with a pitch. They think the worst of people, right? They don't practice, they don't prepare, and they think they're going to freak the fuck out if they go in there. And dude, if that's you, you're going to suck at sales. You're going to be terrible. So you have to understand, move and go do it. All right. Ask a lot of questions. Let them talk. Not only is it good for your anxiety, quote unquote, but it takes the pressure off of you to have all the words and people love to talk about themselves and they're going to give you an opportunity to teach them about your product or service. Okay. Think the best of people, not the worst. Remember the nine great transactions you had

versus the fucking one shit bag one. And then when you have the one shit bag one, give them the benefit of the doubt. You know what I mean? Prepare and practice, do your homework, break down your transactions, break down what you say after every single opportunity and be your own coach. Self-awareness, man. Sharpen the fucking ax. If you don't keep the ax sharp, you're not going to cut down any fucking trees. Okay. And the thing about keeping your ax sharp is this. If you have huge goals, okay, and you've actually lost before and you've figured out how to win a little bit, it's easier to keep your ax sharp because you know you have a long way to go. If you don't have goals, you're going to be the top, you're going to

be the guy who understands, gets a little bit of success, he gets pretty good, then he starts to like deviate from the plan because he believes that he has a natural ability, which you don't, and he's going to go back to the bottom and that cycle is going to repeat itself over and over and over again throughout their lives. And instead of, you know, looking at it and saying, oh, it's me, they're going to look at it and say, oh, it's this job. I mean, cause what's more frustrating than swinging a fucking dull ax against the tree over and over and over again, putting in all that work, all that effort, all that consistency, only to know that you're not making any progress because you haven't taken the time to sharpen the ax, but you're not aware of that. Right? Dude, that's frustrating. That'll break people. So you've got to take time and

you've got to learn how to be your own coach. Dude, I'm looking at these notes. I'm looking at your talking points and these are the five ways to overcome social anxiety and sales. But I'm looking at these and this is the formula for success in life. Yeah, for sure. Like, sales is life, basically. I think so. I mean, you know, from a particular point of view. I think people's fear of sales,

I think people's fear of sales and their ability and want to learn how to sell comes from all these old school sales gurus who make it sound like it's some fucking manipulation. Nobody wants to manipulate anybody. Nobody wants to lie to people. Nobody wants to trick people. Nobody wants to get money for things that they didn't provide value for. You might think you do, but you don't because the minute you do it, you're going to feel like shit. Okay. Dude, being great at sales is really fucking simple.

It's really simple. It comes down to coming from a place of integrity, doing the right thing, being a customer of the product and being someone who's, who's happy to recommend the product. That's the basis. And after that, it's just simple as you know, what we're talking about with these five things, we're talking about very, very basic principles. We're talking about, you know, getting started. We're talking about asking questions. We're talking about thinking good things of people. We're talking about practice. And then we're talking about, you know, taking your anxiety and thinking as an opportunity versus something that you're going to get your head crushed in on. And if you can do that from a place of integrity, dude, there's no limit to how well you're going to sell anything. People who are

having, if you're having trouble with sales right now, it's because you don't believe in the product. You aren't a customer of the product. You are trying to manipulate people out of the money instead of trying to provide a solution. Okay. And that's what it comes down to those three things that we talked about the beginning of the podcast will cure 90 in the anxiety the rest of the top five ways that we talked about overcoming anxiety that's just fucking practicing sales you know what i mean yeah that's good stuff so yeah man practical yeah yeah so um i guess like the thing that i want people to understand is that, you know, and we said this already, but I want to hit on again, you could be the most introverted person

in the world. You can be the person who hates being around people, who's nervous around people, who, who thinks about throwing up at the sight of being in a crowd. Um, and you could still become great salesperson, right? It's just, it's part of what you have to learn, okay? And you don't have to be like one of these old slick sales guys where you've got a prospect,

and you've got to do this, and you've got to close, and you've got to blah, blah. Dude, I don't know any of that fucking shit, you know? I read all those books, and I forgot them all because it's not real in the real world, not in this day and age. The real world in this day and age

is doing the right thing, coming from a place of good intentions, having integrity, and providing something that provides a real solution. If you have that, you're not going to have any problems with sales. And if you don't have that, you're not going to have any success selling whatever it is you're selling. So if that's you and you don't believe in the product, guess what? Fucking quit and go find something that you can. That's the truth. I think of my buddy, Jimmy, who is an introvert. He's a man of few words. He's quiet.

But, man, you get him started on Kansas State football, and he will not stop. And he's super articulate. He's super because he knows the product. He's passionate about it. And so things just flow out of that. And to me, that's what it comes down to. It doesn't matter if you're an introvert. If you love the product, if you have personally benefited from it you're just

going to become the most eloquent natural endearing yeah and let's talk about that too man like a lot of people are like well i don't want to learn how to sell because i'm an introvert motherfucker if you don't learn how to sell and you don't learn how to lead and manage people you are going to be fucking struggling financially and i said that in our other podcast where we talked about leading management and leadership. If you don't learn those skills, you will never make any money, period. Absolutely.

End of story. It's not a choice. It's something you have to learn. No matter if you're a fucking graphic designer, no matter what the fuck it is you do, at some level you're going to have to be comfortable selling and you're going to have to be comfortable leading it's just something you have to do so suck it up dedicate yourself to figuring this shit out

and fucking practice it and i promise you that you're going to find it's not that big of a deal 100 i agree It's not that big of a deal. 100%. I agree. Way to make it awkward, dude. I don't have any other deep, meaningful things to say. I would appreciate it if you click subscribe on the podcast, leave us a review, and make sure that you tell a friend. We talk about, hey, tell a friend, and I know a lot of people, you've listened to the 200 and however many episodes we have. What do we have here now? make sure that you tell a friend. Like we talk about, hey, tell a friend. And I know a lot of people, you know,

you've listened to the 200 and however many episodes we have. What do we have here now? What is this? This should be 225, I believe. 225 episodes that you listen to for free, by the way. And, you know, you've referred one or two friends. Look, let me clarify something. When I say, hey, bring me a friend,

I mean bring me a friend per episode. I only bring me one friend for 225 episodes. That's not fair. That's not right. I'm giving you real skills that can help you develop as a human and make you money. So guys, and it also means don't just tag them on my post. If you tag them on my post to listen to this or subscribe, tell them why you're tagging them. Hey man, I think you should really check out this

guy's podcast. Hey man, I'm learning a lot from this dude. When you just tag people, that's like a lazy way of doing it. So I'm looking for a genuine recommendation. If you get value from this podcast, which I know a lot of you do, bring me one person per episode. That's not making a post either. That's like you might make a post, but that's like getting involved in the conversation, a genuine recommendation. And you might not do it online. It might be in person. It might be some friend that you talk to at work. I don't know. But just help us spread the word and do it, do it the right way. It's on the honor system because I know that you guys are fucking of moral, high moral standard and you're going to obey it. But like, guys, we rely on this to grow

the podcast, to grow the movement. So, um, you know, when you're not doing that part of it, uh, you know, it's really hurting us and our ability to grow. So if you believe in the message and you get value with what we're doing, give me one friend per episode. I think that's fair. So we're not asking for any money. Anyway, that's the show for today. We'll have another show on Thursday, Thursday Thunder, maybe Friday Fire. I don't know yet.

See how the week goes. Until then, crush the week. Take the notes on this podcast. Make sure that you understand what we're talking about because overcoming the anxiety of sales is the key to becoming successful. Most people will never overcome sales, which is why there's a huge opportunity to become great at it.

All right, guys. See you later.