Real Dictators - Adolf Hitler vs Winston Churchill (Part 19)

Episode Date: March 8, 2023

Installed in Downing Street, Churchill arrives with a bang. The Battle of Britain rages in the skies, while the Nazis plot a seaborne invasion across the English Channel. And Hitler extends his networ...k of allies, seeking to bring the Spanish and Japanese strongmen to the table… A Noiser production, written by Jeff Dawson. Scroll down the Real Dictators feed for episodes on Hitler’s early years and rise to power. For ad-free listening, exclusive content and early access to new episodes, join Noiser+. Now available for Apple and Android users. Click the Noiser+ banner on Apple or go to noiser.com/subscriptions to get started with a 7-day free trial. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Starting point is 00:00:00 TD Direct Investing offers live support. So whether you're a newbie or a seasoned pro, you can make your investing steps count. And if you're like me and think a TFSA stands for Total Fund Savings Adventure, maybe reach out to TD Direct Investing. It's September the 27th, 1940. We're in Berlin. The streets are packed, lined with flag-waving schoolchildren. An open-topped Mercedes cruises past the Brandenburg Gate. It contains a delegation from Italy. They're two hours late, and they've already had a telling-off from Joseph Goebbels.
Starting point is 00:00:44 and they already had a telling off from Joseph Goebbels. Three years ago Mussolini and Mussolini alone was the toast of Berlin. But today the Italians must compete for Nazi Germany's affections. For there are new guests of honour and they come from the Far East, the land of the rising sun, Japan. The German-Italian Pact of Steel is about to be upgraded to a Berlin-Rome-Tokyo axis. In the marbled Great Hall of the Reich Chancellery is a long gilded table. Leather-bound papers are stacked for the elaborate signing ceremony. There is props as much as anything legal. The dignitaries enter, fountain pens are wielded, flash bulbs pop. The ink is blotted deliberately and slowly for the
Starting point is 00:01:42 cameras. Afterwards the huge oak doors are thrown open. An attendant enters bearing a big silver stick. He bangs it on the floor three times. A signal for all to rise, all to hush. And then, in a simple grey uniform, enters one Adolf Hitler. He milks the moment, bestowing the odd nod upon his fawning devotees. The Fuhrer says nothing throughout. The talking is left to Foreign Minister Ribbentrop, his Italian counterpart, Ciano, and Ambassador
Starting point is 00:02:22 Saburo of Japan. Hitler just stares in silence while the others drone on about the global conspiracies ranged against them and the unrivalled might of their new bloc. They've already lost the Fuhrer's attention. While the diplomats award each other medals, Hitler exits, wandering back up the corridor and out onto the balcony. Here he basks in the adoration of his waiting public. In a pact of equals, some are more equal than others. From Neuser, this is the Hitler Story.
Starting point is 00:03:03 And this is Real Dictators. Let's scroll back one calendar year. Things are now moving so quickly that the world is struggling to keep up. In September 1939, while Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union were carving up Poland, Hitler was already turning his thoughts to further adventures. In May 1940, he occupied Denmark and Norway, offering them his protection, as he put it. Then in June, he unleashed his blitzkrieg upon the Low Countries and France. The British expedition before us escaped at Dunkirk, but France fell in an astonishing five weeks.
Starting point is 00:03:54 Revenge has been swift. It's also been sweet. In his Director's Cut of History, Adolf Hitler has crafted a revised ending for the First World War, a German victory. On a whistle-stop tour of Paris, seeing the sights, Hitler had stopped off at Napoleon's tomb. Staring at the great quartz sarcophagus, he declared that the dream of his life had been fulfilled. Dr Chris Dillon. Hitler was convinced that he wasn't going to live very long. He thought he had stomach cancer in the late 30s and that Germany would never again be blessed
Starting point is 00:04:33 with a leader of such singular genius and gifts again. And therefore it was important to keep the kind of momentum going of gambits in foreign policy. And one of the characteristics of the Nazi regime is that it kind of like shark-like had to keep moving to keep its various disparate elements together. There is still a big question left hanging. What to do about Britain?
Starting point is 00:05:00 Hitler will address that matter shortly. When the French soldiers started laying down their arms in the spring of 1940, it had been based on an assumption that once the hostilities were concluded, things would go back to normal. Perhaps after some financial reparations or loss of territory. But then they could all go home, enjoy the summer. Brant is in for a rude awakening, a humiliation. This fiercely proud nation will be run as part of Hitler's new European empire.
Starting point is 00:05:35 The state has been reconstituted as Vichy France, named after the stylish spa town which has been chosen as the new provincial capital. Vichy France is under the stewardship of the octogenarian Marshal Pétain. He is an arch-patriot, a hero of World War I. But Pétain's conservative government will become a collaborationist regime, its existence dependent on compliance with the Nazi overlords. And those overlords have another surprise. The southern half of France, including Vichy itself,
Starting point is 00:06:11 bang in the middle of the country, is declared a free zone. This gives the illusion of independence. But the strategic north of the country, including Paris, as well as the west coast, will persist under Wehrmacht occupation. Professor Thomas Weber. The idea here is that normally the French are ruling themselves, but it is ultimately a regime that is answering to the Germans. And there's also always the threat of direct military intervention. So basically, it is made quite clear
Starting point is 00:06:48 to the Vichy government, even though the Vichy government is always quite happy to collaborate with the Germans, if they don't comply with the Germans, that Germany would fully occupy southern France, which of course is also
Starting point is 00:07:00 what's ultimately going to happen. Crucially for Hitler, the Vichy regime will keep France's overseas colonies on side. They will also make sure the powerful French navy stays out of the hands of the British. The bulk of that fleet has sailed away from mainland France. It's currently at anchor across the Mediterranean in the Algerian
Starting point is 00:07:25 port of Mez-el-Kebir. Professor Nicholas of Shaughnessy Britain not only didn't have France, it had the great problem of what to do about the French navy. Because the only way, as we well understood, that Germany could have invaded Britain was by having a huge navy, which it didn't have. But the French did. It now becomes Vichy's navy. Vichy owned it.
Starting point is 00:07:50 And the question now arises, what the hell do you do with this? Because if the Nazis take those ships, then they've got a big enough navy to invade us and enslave us. Winston Churchill, the new British Prime Minister, makes repeated requests
Starting point is 00:08:04 for these French ships to sail to the relative safety of British ports, or even across the Atlantic to the French West Indies. But the head of the Marine Nationale, Admiral Darlan, refuses. Vichy is officially neutral. Darlan pledges to abide by this. This cuts no ice with Churchill. He is not taking any chances. On July 3, 1940, the Royal Navy's Mediterranean squadron moves in.
Starting point is 00:08:38 It blasts the French Navy with a ten-minute devastating bombardment. Navy with a ten-minute devastating bombardment. The vessels are sitting ducks. A battleship is sunk. Five more are put out of use. Thirteen hundred French sailors are killed. The action remains controversial in France. As one Nazi commentator puts it, in one day, Britain killed more sailors than Germany did during the whole war.
Starting point is 00:09:14 Hitler is left under no illusions that Britain, at least under Churchill, is going to fight on. Marcel Kebir rocks France. Attitudes towards Britain cool considerably. Pétain cuts off diplomatic relations, for what they were worth. Hitler seizes on the disquiet. He pursues a charm offensive. He asks his officers in northern France to behave as responsible tourists, just as he did when
Starting point is 00:09:45 he visited the Eiffel Tower. On the streets of Paris there are more cameras on display than firearms. Goebbels gets busy too. Posters go up portraying kindly Wehrmacht troops in full Boy Scout mode, shaking hands with locals, cradling babies and, quite possibly, helping little old ladies across the road. As the motto goes, Frenchmen, trust the German soldier. It's all a facade.
Starting point is 00:10:17 Slowly, France will become enmeshed in the machinery of the Third Reich, with enforced labour, deportations and everything else that characterises Nazi occupation. There's a pronounced gradient in terms of how European populations were regarded by the Nazis from West to East, and there's two very different types of occupation. In the West, the agenda was kind of one of economic exploitation rather than of anything genocidal. There was an attempt to get the French economy integrated into the German economy, to use French factories to produce things for the war, to have skilled
Starting point is 00:10:57 workers turning out armaments and generally keeping the whole Nazi new order ticking over. And it was an unpleasant occupation, without a doubt. Resistance is punished mercilessly. French diet declines very steeply. The average heights of children born in France during the Second World War sinks by centimetres for the rest of their lives because of the malnutrition. But it's nothing like what's happening in the East. Because in the East, he immediately treats people as subhumans.
Starting point is 00:11:27 He sees the East as territories to be colonized. Not so about France and Belgium and the Netherlands. Germany has very limited manpower. So he has no choice other than to occupy the countries in the West with as little manpower as possible. He's trying to cop in local elites and to turn them into collaborators. Professor Helen Roche. There's this idea that, oh, well, they're much more racially related to us. And so we can collaborate with them. Wehrmacht SS officers who are joining from Holland and Belgium and Flanders and so forth, they go to these training courses and then they serve with SS units. And they're often treated
Starting point is 00:12:13 badly by their German superiors because they're still not perceived as being, you know, as good human material as their counterparts. So they almost shot themselves in the foot in the sense that they had these potential allies who were actually in some cases really keen to fight alongside them. You get Dutch SS regiments, Danish as well, Scandinavian SS regiments, but that goodwill towards the Nazis ends up being eroded by the heavy-handed or high-handed treatment they receive. In France too, the mask soon slips. Behind the scenes, out in the countryside, small cells of guerrilla fighters, or maquis,
Starting point is 00:13:04 are starting to form. It's the beginning of what we know as the French Resistance. In the run-up to the invasion of France, a band of senior German officers had been deeply concerned by Hitler's impatience, even recklessness. The so-called Zossen conspirators had even begun plotting to remove the Fuhrer altogether. But that was then. No sooner has the invasion of France proven a rip-roaring success that Generals Brauchitsch and Halder, two of the Zossen gang,
Starting point is 00:13:39 are drawing up a plan for a seaborne invasion of Britain. The pair fly to the Berghof and present the details. But they find Hitler in an up-and-down mood. He makes more noises about reconciliation with London. He is still hopeful that Churchill will not last, that a more pacifist administration will oust him. For the moment, the Luftwaffe are dropping leaflets on Britain, not bombs. He sent the German Air Force over London to drop that famous piece of literature, My Last Appeal to Reason by Adolf Hitler. And he was trying to persuade for a political objective to neutralize Britain and to push it out of the war so he could turn to persuade for a political objective to neutralize Britain and to put
Starting point is 00:14:26 it out of the war so he could turn to the real objective, which was Lebensraum, which was the conquest of Russia. Joseph Goebbels has also started producing radio programs aimed at the British public, characterizing Churchill as a boorish old drunk and dropping hints at a peace settlement. William Joyce, better known as Lord Haw-Haw, had been a British citizen. He is a former member of the British Union of Fascists. Now, having fled the UK at the outset of the war, he is a newscaster based in Germany.
Starting point is 00:15:07 Joyce has become the Nazis' English-speaking propaganda mouthpiece. His broadcasts will go down in infamy. Each one begins with the words Germany calling, Germany calling, and they exhort the British public to surrender. To say the British Empire is in danger today would be a very feeble understatement. Never before has it been in such a perilous position. On the other side are journalists like Sefton Delmer. He had been in Berlin and interviewed Hitler personally. Delmer now works for the BBC,
Starting point is 00:15:48 and he's rather more in tune with the British popular mood than Joyce. In his fluent German, Delmer gives his response to Hitler's offer of reconciliation. We hurl it right back to you, right in your evil-smelling teeth. On July 16th, Hitler issues his plan for an invasion of Britain, Operation Sea Lion. 200,000 men will cross the narrow straits to hit the beaches of Kent and Sussex. A bridgehead will be established, with the seizure of the ports of Folkestone and Newhaven. From there, the Wehrmacht will goose-step over the South Downs and storm London. All nice and pretty on the drawing board. But even the impulsive Hitler understands
Starting point is 00:16:40 that any invasion must come with full command of the English Channel. Hitler understands that any invasion must come with full command of the English Channel. And that will be near impossible with the Royal Navy at large. The news gets worse. After the damage sustained in the Norway campaign, the German Kriegsmarine has only one cruiser and four destroyers available to escort the troops. Forget landing craft or amphibious assault ships. Hitler's invasion fleet is a collection of motorboats and cargo tugs.
Starting point is 00:17:15 It includes river and canal barges dragged up the River Rhine. Dr. John Curatolo. And when you talk about amphibious warfare, as a retired Marine officer, now're you know in my in my my comfort zone what does it mean to do ship to shore movement and amphibious assault when i have to build all of my combat power from zero i gotta take it off a boat and put it ashore that's hard that's difficult doing an amphibious assault is an incredibly complex and manpower and material intensive operation. And the Germans don't have the ships to do it, the landing craft. The Germans, I don't think, have given the amount of intellectual rigor and manpower and training that's required for that kind of operation.
Starting point is 00:18:03 that's required for that kind of operation. The only way to bring the English Channel under control will be to dominate it from the skies, to achieve complete air superiority. Hitler sets a date, September the 15th, for his getting jackboots onto British Shingle. In the meantime, Göring's Luftwaffe will be charged with eliminating the Royal Air Force. Admiral Ryder of the Kriegsmarine protests. They will be in better shape if they postpone the attack till the following May.
Starting point is 00:18:39 Let his navy regroup. It's shrewd of Ryder to object here. Let his navy regroup. It's shrewd of Bride to object here. Now if the invasion fails, it'll be Goering who carries the can. Far away in Washington DC, the German embassy is doing all it can to keep the United States out of the war. German diplomats and propagandists have been supporting US isolationists in Congress and in the media. But Hitler knows that the Americans are already shaping up to supply the UK with military
Starting point is 00:19:11 aid, at the very least. He has a window of opportunity to strike at Britain before its defences are replenished. And there's another reason for Hitler's particular timeline. Leading Nazis, Himmler and Goebbels especially, are extremely superstitious. Goebbels has been delving back into the writings of the fabled French astrologer Nostradamus, a man who claimed, famously, to predict the future. Gibbering with excitement, Goebbels reveals that Nostradamus foretells the destruction of London in the year 1940. It actually goes back to the core truth, I think, about the Nazis,
Starting point is 00:19:57 that they're a cult, and not only a cult, but had occult properties as well, particularly Himmler and the SS. There was a huge amount of occult practice and belief among among them but hitler believed in nostradamus's prophecies he was very influenced by them it's very very difficult to understand the mentality because it's irrational it actually partakes of a kind of mysticism without religion. And that's the essence of Nazism. You have a religion which isn't a religion. Behind the barbed wire and barrage balloons, the United Kingdom waits.
Starting point is 00:20:35 As Churchill puts it, the Battle of France is over. The Battle of Britain is about to begin. Hitler spends the summer of 1940 in the Bavarian Alps. In Germany, there has never been anyone more popular. The frenzy of adulation is something to behold. As one official puts it, all citizens recognize wholly, joyfully and thankfully the superhuman greatness of the Fuhrer. Hitler sees himself as liberator of Europe. Today, we somehow assume that the Nazis always just walk around talking about German glory and blonde super beasts.
Starting point is 00:21:20 But that is not how the Nazis presented themselves. super beasts, but that is not how the Nazis presented themselves. They saw themselves as the defender of Europe against barbarism, against Bolshevism, against Asian savagery, and also against, I guess, Western capitalism. So Hitler really sees himself as a defender of European culture and of European tradition. You get the victory disease, we're winning. And of course, they're Aryans. And so in their mind, we always win because we're racially pure and all the silliness that comes part and parcel with Hitler's maniacal thoughts about the Aryan race.
Starting point is 00:21:59 And so in his mind, the German people will always win based upon their superior intellect and capabilities. And when you rack up these relatively quick victories in both Poland and in France, it only kind of feeds this idea that we're invincible. Flush with success, Hitler's no longer cagey about his lover, Eva Braun. He's happy now to be seen out and about with his chapel, his little thing. But he's also thinking big thoughts about his magnum opus, the liquidation of the Soviet Union. Unfortunately, the word filtering back is not good. The air assault on Great Britain
Starting point is 00:22:49 is going poorly. The losses sustained by the Luftwaffe have been heavy. The radar chain around the British coast is giving the RAF early warning of incoming raids. German fighter escorts have only limited operational range. This leaves their lumbering bombers in broad daylight woefully exposed. The Battle of Britain, in my opinion, really reflects the tactical thinking of the German military. They build Me 109s and Heinkel-111s and Dohner-17s that are great if you're flying over Poland. They're great if you're going to attack France. But when you have to fly an extended distance and engage and conduct operations, you have a significant problem now. The ability to fly long distances with 10 tons worth of bombs is something the Americans develop and the British develop, but the Germans don't. Because again, they're not thinking that way. And of course,
Starting point is 00:23:50 the British will put in together what we call today an integrated air defense, with chain home radars and centralized control, and this ability to alert fighters as the bombers are coming in. In response, the Germans step it up. Operation Eagle Attack will see a new massive airborne campaign aimed at knocking out RAF fighter command. On August the 13th, Eagle Day, Goering stands on the cliffs at Cap Greenay in northern France. Here, just 21 miles from the 17th, Eagle Day, Goering stands on the cliffs at Cap-Greenay in northern France. Here, just 21 miles from the UK mainland, the white cliffs of Dover are visible through the summer haze.
Starting point is 00:24:34 He watches while wave after wave of bombers heads across the water. Again, it does not go well. In just one day on August 17th, the RAF shoots down about 70 German aircraft. Goering berates his pilots. From now on they must fly during every conceivable daylight hour, whatever the weather. The RAF retaliates with raids on Berlin, despite Göring's insistence that such a thing would be impossible. This begins a vicious spiral. Hitler takes to the radio.
Starting point is 00:25:18 When they declare that they will increase the attacks on our cities, then we will raze their cities to the ground. Finally, he issues the invasion order. At Berlin's Sportspalast, a frenzied audience hails its Fuhrer. In England, they are filled with curiosity and keep asking, why doesn't he come? Hitler tells them, Be calm. He's coming. He is coming. In Germany's schools, teachers address their classrooms with a new greeting. Gott straffe England. God punish England.
Starting point is 00:26:10 On September 7th, swarms of bombers head up the Thames to bomb London's docks, power stations and oil tanks. It's a devastating raid. Over 800 civilians are killed. The scales, for the first time, begin to tip the other way. Even still, the Luftwaffe are bogged down in the skies. There's now no way the conditions are going to be met for an amphibious assault. A scenario is war-gamed by Hitler's advisors. France was conquered with the loss of only 30,000 men.
Starting point is 00:26:46 By contrast, the Wehrmacht could lose that in a single afternoon during an attempted seaborne invasion of Britain. With autumn storms looming, the English Channel, which battered Julius Caesar and thwarted Napoleon, proves too much for Hitler. He announces that Operation Sea Lion will be postponed until further notice. The Luftwaffe will switch to sustained night bombing raids on Britain's cities. Before the aborted invasion, France's Marshal Pétain had quipped that in just three weeks Britain would have its neck wrung like a chicken. As Churchill will be taught later, some chicken, some neck.
Starting point is 00:27:24 were retort later, some chicken, some neck. And then, of course, when they shift gears and do the blitz, now that gives the ROEF a reprieve and they can build their fields back up and rebuild fighter command. Operation Sea Line is no more. It might almost seem like disrespectful to assume that the Nazis might have had no serious intention of invading Britain. that the Nazis might have had no serious intention of invading Britain. But we always have got to be on mind that from Hitler's perspective, invading Britain was really only a second, third, or really fourth best solution. It would have been much better to bring about a accommodation with Britain, but out of desperation, he pursues this, but he also quickly realizes this is just not going to happen and that Germany does not have the military means.
Starting point is 00:28:08 The bombing of Britain is really kind of a terror campaign. It's a terror campaign aimed at getting the British to realize that they're better off striking a deal with the Germans. the Germans. And I think the real reason why he pursued the bombing campaign against Britain is because he thought he would actually strengthen pro-German forces within Britain. Britain be damned. It's old and decadent. It has a decaying empire. In pursuit of global dominance, there are others Hitler can call on. In pursuit of global dominance there are others Hitler can call on. Feelers have been extended to Japan ever since it began its imperial expansion in the Far East. They may not be Aryan, but the nationalistic Japanese with their hierarchical racial ethos
Starting point is 00:29:00 seem cut from the same cloth. The time has come to formalize an arrangement. The question is why, because they're a different race. They're East Asian people. But this is why ideology, including racism, is actually so flexible. The Japanese are seen as Prussians of the East. They are seen as honorary Aryans, and they can be declared honorary Aryans
Starting point is 00:29:29 because of the sterling qualities of their character. And above all, their militarism. In other words, here are two nations on different sides of the world which find themselves suddenly enmeshed together, not only in a formal alliance, but pretty much subject to a similar ideology. You see Shinto and Buddhism has existed for nearly a thousand years together in Japan.
Starting point is 00:29:54 But you had this new cult of Bushido emerging after the First World War, which was a hyper-militarized cult, just as Nazism and fascism were, with violence at its core. The way Hitler sees it, Japan can be a big asset to Nazi Germany. Should the USA enter the conflict, Japanese forces can tie them down in the Pacific. Stalin won't be happy. Russia and Japan have been at war in recent memory. From where he stands,
Starting point is 00:30:31 snuggling up to Tokyo should not be on anyone's agenda. Relax, says Hitler. The Nazi-Soviet pact is safe and sound. Sacred. This is all about the Americans. Trust me. It's a classic Hitler-Kahn. The other great motive for extending the Axis is that when the time comes, Japan can potentially
Starting point is 00:30:54 open a far eastern front against the Soviet Union. As ever, there is Mussolini. Officially, with Japan signed up, he is now one third of the most powerful fascist military axis in human history. But he's still feeling unloved. To keep Mussolini sweet, Hitler had allowed the Italian Air Force to take part in the raids on Britain. But Benito's blitz was the inevitable disaster. Obsolete and outgunned, the Italian planes were chicken feed for the RAF.
Starting point is 00:31:38 Even more were lost in accidents. Their most impressive contribution to the Battle of Britain was to send a few outdated biplanes, brightly camouflaged for the desert, to partake in some formation flying over Kent before tossing a few bombs into Ramsgate Harbour. And the news from North Africa isn't good either. Italian forces in colonial Libya have been squaring up to the British in Egypt. But now the British forces, the famed Desert Rats, are annihilating General Bergonzoli's army. 100,000 prisoners have been taken.
Starting point is 00:32:20 It seems increasingly likely that Hitler is going to have to step in. Italian prisoners of war, of whom there are a great many, were incredibly popular in this country. Many of them stayed on. They're universally liked. It was fully recognized that Italians didn't want to be in the war. And of course, by mid-war, they changed sides. But there was that unfortunate episode in the Battle of Britain where the Italian Air Force did not distinguish itself. There's another dictator we haven't mentioned for a while. Remember Generalissimo Francisco Franco, fascist ruler of Spain? While Hitler, Stalin and Mussolini have all been on the march, Franco has been sitting at home.
Starting point is 00:33:03 After the devastation of the Spanish Civil War, this is perhaps understandable. But Hitler doesn't want to leave a brother hanging. He still sees a place for Franco in his grand future. And hey, with the Nazi Empire extending from Poland to the Pyrenees, they're neighbours. Hitler decides to pop round. On October 23 23rd, 1940, Hitler's personal train, named, ironically, America, shunts into the Basque border town of Andes.
Starting point is 00:33:37 Hitler is really quite keen, really desperate to enter into an alliance with Spain, and to some extent also to Portugal. It's also important to remember that it was, of course, during the Spanish Civil War that Hitler had supported Franco militarily. So there is an expectation or a hope on the part of the Germans that therefore the Spanish might also enter the war on the side of the Germans. the war on the side of the Germans. Hitler has one particular request, that the Spanish help boot the British out of the Mediterranean. The Royal Naval Dockyard sits right at the southern tip of the Iberian Peninsula, at the Rock of Gibraltar. This is of course strategically really important because the hope is that Franco-Spain would
Starting point is 00:34:30 move against Gibraltar and that therefore Britain would lose control over the entry into the Mediterranean and that therefore it would be much easier to win the war in the Mediterranean. Dislodging the British from the rock, however, will be no picnic. An assault by land, sea and air requires military kit that Spain doesn't possess. Hitler sends a message back. No problemo. He can supply them with the necessary gear.
Starting point is 00:35:02 All it needs is Franco's official commitment. And so, the German and Spanish leaders agree to meet at the international bridge between France and Spain, over the Bidasoa River. Things do not go according to plan. Franco and his team are a no-show. Has the Generalissimo stood Hitler up? Nobody does this to the Fuhrer.
Starting point is 00:35:28 While his entourage lolls about in the sun, Hitler works himself up into a frenzy, raging against the accursed Latins. An hour later, Franco's train eventually chugs in, and the Generalissimo, it turns out, comes armed with more demands. Not just for weaponry, but raw materials. Petroleum, grain, and how about some territory thrown in?
Starting point is 00:35:53 French-controlled Morocco, Algeria. The longer the talks go on, Franco seems increasingly the wrong fit. He's old school, conservative, religious, a monarchist and cautious. He's got enough on his plate ruling a divided Spain. That night, Hitler and Franco eat
Starting point is 00:36:16 in the Fuhrer's dining car. The key to the Mediterranean, suggests Franco, is not Gibraltar, but the Suez Canal. Has the Fuhrer given any thought to that instead? Hitler once more loses it. He storms off in a hissy fit, railing against Franco as a jumped up little mare. The Nazis revert to type. The Spanish delegation is dismissed, The Nazis revert to type.
Starting point is 00:36:47 The Spanish delegation is dismissed, then ordered to sign up to the Axis. Or else. Or else what? It's the Spanish who hold all the cards. Muttering about how Franco is an ungrateful coward, the Hitler Express steams away. If it had looked as if Germany was going to win the war anytime soon, it would have made strategic sense for Franco to join the war on the side of the Germans. Franco really has very little to gain by entering into an alliance with Nazi Germany at this point in the war. While the cost and the risks are enormous, it's really not that surprising that
Starting point is 00:37:25 Franco decides against entering the war on Germany's side. Franco, you know, he'd been established for a while. He was perhaps more naturally cautious about doing something that might rock the apple cart. And neutrality, although neutrality with a strongly pro-German cast, seemed like a better option under the circumstances. At his next meeting with Mussolini, Hitler would grumble like hell about the Spanish leader and his attempts to extort Nazi Germany, treating the Führer as if he were, in his words, a little Jew.
Starting point is 00:38:04 In private, Franco was already put through a call to Pétain, the Fuhrer as if he were, in his words, a little Jew. In private, Franco has already put through a call to Pétain, warning him of Hitler's antics. He reminds the French Marshal that he is the hero of the First World War. Don't let himself get pushed around by the little Austrian upstart. and upstart. The very next day, on his way home, the Hitler special stops off at Montoir in the Loire Valley.
Starting point is 00:38:34 There the Fuhrer meets Marshal Pétain. It's the first chance he's had to press the flesh with the leader of Vichy France. In lieu of Spain, he hopes to persuade the Vichy regime to pitch its forces against Britain. Pétain is invited aboard Hitler's train,
Starting point is 00:38:52 along with his deputy, Pierre Laval. Laval fidgets. Like others before him, he's falling foul of the Fuhrer's strict no-smoking policy. Britain is isolated, Ribbentrop tells them. Stick with Germany, and Vichy France can be a partner in this new Europe. Pétain concedes that they are not in a position to go it alone.
Starting point is 00:39:18 They might as well cosy up. Plus, there are two million French POWs taken captive by Germany who want to come home. Laval, dying for a cigarette, is happy to rush through anything Hitler puts in front of them. And so, Pétain makes a declaration. Britain and Vichy France are at war. Hurtling home to Germany, Hitler receives a telegram. It's from Mussolini.
Starting point is 00:39:51 Can Hitler come to Italy ASAP? He won't say why. Hitler doesn't like the sound of this. What is Il Duce playing at? A scheduled meeting in Florence is hurried forward. Then, just before heading south, a piece of intelligence comes in. Italy is about to invade Greece. Hitler is furious.
Starting point is 00:40:13 What's more, Mussolini is treating it as some kind of surprise. That's why he'd invited Hitler. He wanted to tell him in person. It's a madcap scheme, the Fuhrer froths, utterly pointless. If he can just get him to call it off. At 10am on October 28th, as he passes Bologna, Hitler hears that it's too late. Mussolini's troops have already gone in. In Florence, Il Duce rushes up to greet the Fuhrer, jumping around like an excited
Starting point is 00:40:47 puppy dog. We are on the march, he cries. As they wave to the cameras in front of Florence's cathedral, Hitler must grin and bear it. He and Mussolini have got too much history together now. He cannot really face ever turning against Mussolini because Mussolini is the senior dictator. Mussolini has been in power for 10 years when Hitler takes power in Berlin. Mussolini is the originator of all of the symbols, the rituals of fascism, the idea of fascism, all the rest of it. And this idea of founding a regime in rhetoric, in turning politics into entertainment and spectacle, which is what Mussolini did. Hitler is the greatest plagiarist in history.
Starting point is 00:41:39 He just borrows. But he also has an extraordinary respect for Mussolini, almost mystical. He looks up to him as the senior dictator. He admires him. He loves the man. And Hitler stands by him, despite Mussolini messing up in Greece, in North Africa, being defeated all over the place. The Italians fought incredibly bravely in the Risorgimento against Austria and so forth. They fought incredibly bravely and successfully in World War I. But World War II, their hearts weren't there.
Starting point is 00:42:13 I mean, this was a war delivered by Mussolini for his friend Hitler as a present. It's not something Italian people wanted. All these alliances are getting rather confusing. Even the Tripartite Pact, Berlin, Rome, Tokyo, is coming with some add-ons. Hungary, Romania and Slovakia are all lined up to join as junior partners. Possibly the Bulgarians. And now Ribbentrop wants the Soviet Union to sign up to join as junior partners, possibly the Bulgarians, and now Ribbentrop wants the Soviet Union to sign up to it too.
Starting point is 00:42:49 To Hitler this is nuts. The whole point of bringing Japan on board is to open up a Siberian front against the USSR. But it's patently obvious that Stalin still hasn't got a clue about Hitler's true intentions. If he's so completely oblivious, thinks Hitler, then why not prolong the charade? Sure, invite Stalin to partner up in this new world order.
Starting point is 00:43:17 November the 12th, 1940. It's a dreary, drizzling day. Molotov, the Soviet foreign minister, arrives in Berlin to kick around the idea of further cooperation. He also has some more matter-of-fact questions. For instance, what the hell are the Nazis playing at in Finland? Why are German troops now stationed there exactly? Hitler assures Molotov that all is well. Their existing pact is a marriage made in heaven.
Starting point is 00:43:51 They meet again the next day for lunch. Hitler hates eating with foreigners. But with Franco, Pétain, Mussolini, there's been rather too much of it lately. When the Finland question comes up again, Hitler loses his rag. The troops there are merely en route to Norway, he protests. But it's a dog-at-my-homework excuse. Finland will be an extremely useful springboard for his secret attack on the Soviet Union. To Molotov, to Stalin, the alarm bells should be ringing. But, remarkably, they aren't.
Starting point is 00:44:31 Instead, their meeting is curtailed by the wail of air raid sirens. RAF bombers are hitting the German capital again, just like the Nazis said they never would. In the government shelter on Wilhelmstrasse, Ribbentrop and Molotov continue their meeting. Ribbentrop lays out his plans for a new four-power pact. The Russians, Germany, Italy and Japan. The world is their oyster now that the British are as good as beaten. If the British are beaten, says Molotov, then why are we sitting in this air raid shelter? The Soviets don't sign.
Starting point is 00:45:12 Hitler still hasn't given up on taking Gibraltar. If Franco isn't up for it, then he'll do the job himself. The Fuhrer unveils Operation Felix, his master plan to evict the British from the Mediterranean forever. And he will go further. He will also snatch from Spain and Portugal the Canaries, Madeira, the Cape Verde Islands, maybe even the Azores. Hitler puts Admiral Canaris in charge of the operation.
Starting point is 00:45:43 Hitler doesn't know it, but Canaris is one of the Sossen plotters. Incidentally he's also a speaker of flawless Spanish. He's already had a quiet word with Franco. Best stay out of the war, the Admiral says, because from where he's standing, Germany and its allies are in for quite a beating. In the next episode... In one of the war's strangest incidents, Deputy Fuhrer Rudolf Hess turns up unannounced in Britain.
Starting point is 00:46:27 Hitler finally invades the Soviet Union, though the campaign must be delayed while he bails out Mussolini and the Balkans. And, before 1941 is through, Hitler will sign off the year by declaring war on the United
Starting point is 00:46:43 States. That's next time.

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