Real Kyper & Bourne - A Classic, Desperate, Battle of Alberta

Episode Date: October 27, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start the second hour with a conversation about outdoor games with the Heritage Classic between the Oilers and Flames coming up this weekend, the significance in the standings and if McDavid will/should play. They are joined by former NHL team president, GM and coach (and author!) Doug MacLean (6:47) for Off-the-Rails Friday, who shares his thoughts on the desperation in the weekend's edition of the Battle of Alberta, what will change under the decentralized draft and takes a look at some of the Canadian teams around the league that are struggling. Finally, how much patience new Sens owner Michael Andlauer will afford Steve Staios or Pierre Dorion, the return of Andrei Svechnikov and answer your texts!The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Welcome into the real Kipper and Bourne show. I'm Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. For the next hour, we are going national. Lots to discuss. We are on Sportsnet and Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver, Sportsnet 960 in Calgary, and of course this hour

of Real Kipper and Bourne brought to you by Bet365. See what a good host I am, Sammy? I get all of that in. Kipper, you're very good at this. Very professional. Not really. It's Friday. I know. And you're very good at this. Very professional. Not really. It's Friday. I know. And you had golf today.

Yeah, Kip golfed today. I did. I did. I snuck out there. October 27th. Not bad in Canada. I got the last one. I'm playing tomorrow morning.

Are you? Yeah, 9.50. Don Valley here in Toronto. Got the last one to go. I'm hoping I go low and can go into the winter. Kip went out with 78. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm hoping to go low. Anyways. Tons to get into. And of course, we'll drive it right into the ditch with uh doug mclean momentarily uh i don't know how many books he's going to try to sell before we get one meaningful thing into this show but where in the world is carmen san diego today i i think he's back in florida oh because he sent out a text uh from the beach okay which he likes to every once in a because he sent out a text from the beach, which he likes to every once in a while. He's pumping up his book.

He's not shirtless in it, is he? Draft day. I don't know if it was him or he took a picture of somebody else. We'll find out for sure. But we're going to get his thoughts on a ton of stuff, including the Heritage Classic 20th anniversary from that original game back in 2003. November, I was there.

First one ever. Froze my you-know-what off. Yeah. It looks a little chilly. A little chilly. How cold was it? I thought it was like February, and it's like, no, it's November 22nd. That's not far off from where we are now.

These days in the prairies, my, I've got family in Saskatchewan. It's been snowing and minus 10 or something like that. So I think some snow in Calgary too. That's just unfair. It's too early. I know it's sunny all winter at least.

So do you remember, do you remember that game? Yes. Did you watch it? It was a must watch television. I remember this next one is Theodore wearing the the two guns helmets i remember that well but i don't remember a ton from the game extremely cool see um that one that that was the real first launch of i don't know how many think we've had since then 6099. My guess is 385.

It feels like it. It does feel like it. There's some years we've been having six, right? Correct me if I'm wrong, and you're a college guy and college smart. Ish. There was the Michigan and the Michigan State outdoor game. Yes. Right?

And the big house. That gave the NHL all the ideas yeah 104 106 there's a lot of humans a lot of humans at that game yeah and it was such an amazing spectacle for a college game and the nhl said okay what are we nuts we do that how about the first winter classic with the snow falling in buffalo and crosby with the shootout winner and like cover that one as well there's some cool returns in the early outdoor games covered at least 10 15 of these games really i've been to one i went to philadelphia have you been to one i've been to two i was i worked at the one they had in hamilton a couple years ago

yeah is that last year? All I know is I remember you getting a sick jacket out of it. And we're on national television. And I went to the one here against the Red Wings where they blew it. They were up 4-1 with like six minutes left in the game, and they blew it. And then Matthew scored the overtime winner, which is really great. It was fun.

I think for the community you're in, it's a lot of fun. You get to get dressed up. So what you're saying is no one else across the country or in North America care about it anymore. It's the community now. They should care about this next one. This Calgary Edmonds game is massive. Just for the two points.

Yeah, like in the NHL standings, the direction they're going, how desperately they both need to win. They should agree to not score and get their point each, go to overtime, and then play for the extra one. I think things are so bad that they should just get together before the game and say, listen, there's as many as three points on the table. Yeah. Let's just each take one and a half now.

Yeah. Do a split. Call it good. Completely split. Right. And that's particularly if Connor's not playing. One and a half. No official announcement.

He's been in a hyperbaric chamber ever since. You were kind of correct, I think, last week, or was it you that said they're not going give you any david update until maybe what day of so you're you're not completely crushed right you're you're you're just crushed you know an hour before puck drop they can't he's gonna play they're gonna wheel him out there if they have to in a wheelbarrow he'll be on the ice for the oils that night. You still calling it, Sammy? McDavid to play? I'll stick with my original thought.

He should absolutely not, and he absolutely will. That is my final synopsis. Is there anything lost in this game because they're struggling so badly. Like, to your point, it's still two teams that hate each other. It's two points that mean a lot. Two teams with playoff aspirations.

How can there not be great energy in this game? I couldn't agree more. You know, the only reason I would answer that question with anything other than there will be is because how could there not be great energy from either of them last night when there was absolutely not great energy you know there was boy pretty listless performances from two teams who needed wins badly watch the second half of the second period in the third period for the oilers and there was just not a lot of not a lot of push there no now they're one five and one booze it's not pretty yeah they're getting booed at home one five and one like it's not like they're not not going to make the playoffs because

of a poor start or whatever but boy you win five straight near six and five like they're they're in a pretty deep pit here can't go deeper all right let's get into that and plenty of more with our next guest, Doug McClain, author. Best-selling author yet? Is that official? Yeah, like, you know, James Patterson, he looks at it yearly as bestseller. I go week to week, so I'm a bestseller three weeks in a row. I don't know what more I can say.

Okay. No, not even there then. Nothing, nothing. Yeah, we saw it. Thanks for coming on. I've had some good comments. You know, I've had some good comments. I've had some former staffers that are very pleased with what they read because what they did is just went to the index and saw what their names were and read what I said about them.

And that calmed their nerves down. I've had guys that work for me that have been uptight for two years about this book coming out. I just talked to Don Boyd, my chief scout. He's driving from Medicine Hat to Calgary, and he was telling me the draft story about he and I and Rick Walmsley were in a car. A transport truck went by and blew us into the ditch, and I made Walmer get out and shovel the snow around the muffler. So we wouldn't die. And all warmer,

all warmer was worried about was getting to the McDonald's and medicine hat. You know, so, so, so here we are going into a heritage classic on Sunday with two teams that their respective markets are thinking it's the end of the world here. What is going on with our team that should be competing for a Stanley Cup? Like, where would the importance of trying to enjoy this weekend be knowing that these two teams are so desperate to turn things around here like would this be a pain in their ass this sunday game the good thing is one of them are

going to win the game that's a positive so they're going into it knowing there's a 50 chance they're going to get a win and that's really important for both teams look these these outdoor games like as i told you i remember we were on the show years ago and somebody said are you excited about the outdoor game i said i don't even want to go to an indoor game let alone an outdoor game So really, I guarantee you Coach Woodcroft and Coach Luska are not, this is so far from their stratosphere, it's unbelievable. They just want to win, and they want to win really bad. The players will enjoy it.

The players always enjoy things for the most part, unless the coach calls you soft. And then, you know, which seems to be going on a lot in the NHL today. But overall, I think they'll all enjoy it. They'll look back as a great memory, but they're so desperate for wins that that's the number one thing.

So, Doug, your new book, excuse me for skipping around topics a little bit, but I wanted to get back to the book and the idea of draft day, because the nhl just uh decentralized its draft which means you're not going to have everyone on the floor in the same building which is very different from the way it has been during all of the drafts that you wrote about it what are your thoughts on that change how it'll affect things you like it don't don't like it? I thought it was going to come, you know, when I heard some of the GMs talk about it this past draft.

Especially, you know, Stevie Y was fairly vocal about it. A lot of guys were. My only issue with it is I always thought the draft was a great thing for the fans and a great thing for the city where it was being held. I mean, in Montreal last year, it was electrifying when we were there, you know, at the draft. It just, it made it, you know, the city was special. It had a great history.

I always, even in Columbus, when we had the draft, it was a special time for the fan base and for the city. So that's the one thing. I mean, look, nba and nfl have been successful the way they've structured it you know with people working out of a central area i i like it the way it is i thought we were a little different from the other teams but let's just be the same as everybody else let's just do it like everybody else does, you know? Seriously. Give me a break.

I got a little sarcasm there. Yeah, I like that. A little. Just a little. Yeah. Is the budget a big deal for clubs now? I know. I mean, you hear some of the losses. What was your budget?

Like, sometimes I went to the draft, Mac, and I look at the table, and I'm like, who are those people? Like, I get their scouts, and you maybe want to reward a few, right, by buying them a nice dinner at the draft. But, like, how much does it cost? Like, what was your budgets in your draft years that you spent on a weekend like that? You know, I think I had in the book, it was somewhere between two, you know, $200,000 in that range. I didn't count Mr. McConnell's massages, you know, because he used to have a lot of massages my my uh director of uh my director of team services came to me said

mac mac i'm busy just booking massages for mr mcconnell oh my god so anyway other than that i mean look at look you take your whole staff out for dinner and a great restaurant and fun john it's 3500 i mean come on in a and fun, John, it's $3,500. I mean, come on. And $100 million budget, like it's peanuts. You stay in a hotel, you know, 20 rooms for five nights. Come on. It's peanuts compared to the overall $100 million budget, $125, $135 million budget you're operating on. It's a small, it's not about that. The GMs want to be able to work in their own environment and with their own staff. They want their war rooms to be in their offices.

That's the whole gist of it for me. That's what they want. So they're going to get it. I love, you know, going into a hotel, setting up your war room, two suites combined. You know, you'd be there until 9 o'clock at night. You'd be there at 7 in the morning.

The staff were together. There was all kinds of trade talk coming in. You know, it was just a great time. I loved it. Well, obviously, these are crucial days for these Canadian teams as they build towards something, and the Oilers have built a lot through the draft. The Senators built a lot through the draft. Kind of having some rough starts here for these Canadian teams

that we're keeping an eye on. What would these teams be going through, you know, when it's not going well in the initial going, and they really expect to be not just playoff bound, but better. 1-5-1 for the Oilers. You know, the Sens still kind of ticking along at 3-4. You know, what would things be like in their coaches' offices and management rooms right now?

Really bad. I mean, look, and it's unfortunate. And certain people, I had the luxury of working with Brian Murray for 10 or 12 years. And you know what? Brian was a very solid guy. I mean, he got upset at times, but he always maintained great composure in front of his players unless he lost at the odd time, which Kippy could attest to. But I think it's a really important time for coaches. I think of Woodcroft in the Oilers and Ryan Aluska, young coaches, DJ Smith.

I mean, limited experience coaches. To me, it's just, boys, they have to understand. It's not the system that's cost. Media love to say, oh, the system is what's wrong with the Oilers. Oh, the system's what's wrong with Ottawa. Oh, it's the system. Oh, it's the box plus one. It's all BS. It's like the Rangers last year and Drury with all this BS about Jordan not adjusting on the bench. OK. Think about what got you to the NHL as a coach. Why did you get there? What did you do to get there? It's talking to your players, believing in your players. It's it's all those things that come up when things are tough. go hide, that's when the coach has got to step to the forefront and take charge of the group and build the positiveness within the group. And I feel sorry for some of these guys,

what I'm watching and what I'm listening to, because they're all good coaches. They wouldn't be there in the first place. And I'm reading all of this. There's a difference if your system's not good, if your guy won't compete in front of the net or he won't compete in the corner or he won't forecheck or he doesn't pick up his man that's not the system that's the player's head not in it and you got to get your players heads in the game and that's their big job right now so we got seven nhl coaches across the country right now and it if you if you had to pick one that's probably gotten to his players more so than anyone would you say that it would be rick talkett in vancouver based on what you just said

i i think i think rick is a guy that's been in the trenches. He hasn't had great success as a coach. He's been with bad teams. In fairness to Rick, he's been with bad teams. He's got some real talent there. He had to send a message. There's nothing wrong with sending a message to your team if it's factual. They don't want frauds in front of them, Nick.

They want the truth and they want it being consistent and factual. Rick Tockett spoke to his team after a game where they didn't compete. They didn't compete in that game. And you know what? I think he got the message

through to them. And I think that's important. But it's not belittling them. Sometimes certain guys you've got to build up. Certain guys you've got to hammer. It's dealing with the group. And belittling them is not the way to go. Some guys can belittle and make a guy feel good.

But I remember, you know, is it good? I made players cry in my office. It made me feel terrible. You know, they were uptight. You've made a lot of people at Sportsnet cry. Yeah, and I'm a bit of a crier myself you know i cried when i left sports net i mean i couldn't stop the tears from back but huska huska basically came out and said we sucked last night uh with their uh shout out loss and said there's work uh. Like, where does he go?

Like, what do you do when you publicly acknowledge that your team's not working hard enough? There's only one way to go. Like, when you're an NHL coach, with the way the contracts are today, with the way the waiver rules are, with the way all the rules are with respect to your team and who you have to work with, you have only one thing. And it really hasn't changed in 20 years. It's called ice or no ice. That's what it's called. No ice means you're not going to play. It's like if you take a star and he misses one power play, that gets the message through. If you have a fourth liner and he misses a period, that gets the message through.

You've got to get the message through however it can be affected. If Connor McDavid misses a shift or Ubedo misses a shift on the power play, what do you think he's thinking? He's getting the message he's not working hard enough for one thing. So that's all you have is ice or no ice. And use it to your best advantage. So all this is about managing people or players' minds, right? Like in where they are at mentally.

Luke Fox has had an article on Ilya Samsonov, whose mind does not sound like it's in a great place he's not real pleased with himself he's down on himself what does a team do with a guy like that who you want to give wool some run here but the guy that you're paying more and expecting more from is already counting himself and his season as a failure here. One of the highlights of my coaching career was when I had an opportunity, or even as a general manager, to talk one-on-one with a player in your office and be a human being to them

and understand what they're going through and try to help them work their way through it. I've had all kinds of players come into my office and tell me there's X factors going on in their life and you try to work through it. There's got to be a humanistic approach with some of these guys. And don't just always turn them over

to the sports psychologist or turn them over to the sports psychologist or turn them over to the skill coach or turn them over to the assistant coach. Sometimes the head coach has got to be the guy to calm the situation down and get the guy's head refocused. Head coaches, where the hell are they? Oh, I see them on the bench during the games. They have enough trouble managing their staff let alone managing their players wow i sound like an old-timer you're on fire today that's good stuff no i just like i love i love watching coaches and i look at woodcroft and talk and Aluska and DJ and Rick bonus and Sheldon and St. Louis.

I mean, they're all good quality people and you know, half three quarters, their teams are struggling and it, and I read systems or letting them down. I mean, are you kidding me? Humanistic approach,

talk to your players, work with your players, spend time with your players, humanistic approach. Talk to your players, work with your players, spend time with your players, motivate your players. And if they won't do it, then don't give them any ice time. Simple as that. I look at Calgary and you're at the mercy of your highest paid guys to produce. Kadri has all but one assist. Jonathan Huberto is not scoring at the rate people expect

for 10.5 million. How do you get your stars going, Mac? Well, you know what? You've got to make sure that they're playing with the right people. You've got to make sure they're in the right situation. You've got to make sure your matchups are solid.. You got to make sure your matchups are solid. You got to be a hundred percent prepared for all that. But again,

I still think it's making sure their heads are ready to play. And I think it's the coach's number one job to make sure that his players heads are in the right frame of mind to go into the battle. It's tough out there. I admire what the players go through. I've always admired, like, one of the biggest things that was ever said about me was a coach was said about, Greg Millen said to me when I was in St. Louis.

He said, you know, for a college guy, you remind me of a guy that played pro the way you coach. And I thought, oh, I really feel good about that. You know, I really feel good that you're like a player's coach versus a college guy. So I think it's all about communication. And if guys don't come around, then you've got to take their ice and go with the guys that are going to play the hardest. Because if you don't, you'll lose credibility in your room. When you got your job here at Sportsnet,

I pumped you up when you went on air. I did what Greg Millen did. Told you that, you know, you reminded me of, I don't know, a weather guy or something. No, that's not true. That's not true. Hillary, the makeup artist, and Deb Berman

pumped me up the most because they made me look great. As the Tin Man. It's Halloween. Hey, JB won't dress up with me on a show. Will you come back and be a Tin Man again?

No, I'll only go back for Kiss. Kiss. Gene Simmons. Don't even think about sticking your tongue out. All right? My daughter saw that picture and she said, Dad, that's not good.

That's not good, Dad. All right. That's not a good look, Dad. Listen, we wanted you to take it right into the ditch on today's show, and you did that. We really appreciate it. Thanks, Mac. Thanks for having me, guys.

It's a real treat to leave the beach and come up here and spend some time with you guys. You got pickleball right after this? No, I did beach and a little pickleball. We just did a pickleball practice today. Yeah. Practice. We can see your warm-up jacket.

We used the box plus one in pickleball today. All right, everybody. Doug McClain, former president, general manager, and now author of Draft Day, How Teams Pick Winners or Get Left Behind. Pick it up. Or else he's coming after you. Yeah.

What guest today? What guest? Heat. Anything stand out? I love what he said about coaches. Yeah, you know what kind of stood out to me is the idea that everything has been like cordoned off into these silos. Okay, the goalie coach does the goalie and the strength and whatever.

The strength guy does the lifting and the nutrition guy. And then you've got the psychologist. And it's like, what is the coach coaching? Yeah. You know what? Listen, I've been in practice. I've been to a few different practices the last couple of years. I'm watching more coaches than players on the ice.

I know. It's crazy. What is that? The four performance centers. Eight coaches. As many as eight coaches sometimes on the ice. I'm like, seriously? Well, and I've been in the Leafs organization when all these coaches kind of come around

and they're a part of the skills team. And it's always kind of awkward. It's like, are they on the staff? Do we, how do we treat everyone who's sort of tangentially around what we're doing here? I also like what Mac said, just about the systems and like dumbbells,

like me blaming Kiefer stuff. And like, at the end of the day, it comes down to your over $40 million players. At the same time, like a, the, the,

the leaf says a prime example for me, changing the energy. Okay, the stretch pass and the icings, that part of the system gets old. Yeah, you don't like to break out, fly the zone, send it and tip it, or don't tip it and ice it. I don't know where they are on icings. Oh, they've got to be high. They've got to be high. They've got to be high. Yeah, I agree.

All right, Sammy. Gio's trying to, he got the shot block record last year. He's going for the icing record this year. All right, it's game time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus on carry only. Please play responsibly.

Now, this one's going to really make our Western Canada fans happy. Oh. I'm looking at the Vesna Trophy favorites. Okay. Elias Orokin, Yussi Saros, Igor Shosturkin are the top three. How far down the list do you think you have to go to get to Joseph Ball on Bet365? 35th 19 so the net it goes connor hellebuck jake ottinger and then it falls off a little bit with gorgiev at 12 to 1 linus allmark philip gustafson carter hart jeremy swayman and then justin oh so then uh uh joseph wall at 22-1.

That's pretty high up there, boy. What number? 22-1. No, but he's the eighth goalie? Let me see here. He is one, two, three. He's the 11th goalie. 11th.

That's really high. Wait, three games this year? Yeah. That's the most Toronto thing I've ever heard. Well, I saw it. I looked at it. It is. We're doing the show from Toronto. We know everybody's watching out west. Yeah. I'm saying this to them. Well, I saw it. I looked at it. It is. We're doing the show from Toronto. We know everybody's watching out west.

I'm saying this to them. We didn't do that. It's such a BS Toronto thing. It is. It is. Oh, you're pandering. No, no, no. It's a market thing.

It's a market reversal. He's like, he's a best. This is no different than selling magazines. And, you know, I know a few people at the Hockey News. We know the Hockey News has been the Bible for how many years? 40 years? 50 years? Yeah.

The Bible. I had a subscription for my whole youth. You know what they say when things are running a little low or they need a boost? You put a Toronto Maple Leaf on the cover. Yeah. It sells like 20, 30% more than anything else. I think in this case, it's the books basically being like, we know these dumbos will bet anything,

and so we'll give them a bad number. The most dumbos are in Toronto. He's ahead of Thatcher Demko, I might add. That's awful. That's awful. That's embarrassing. But I mean, it's bookmaking. It's not someone giving you projected chances.

I do like Ottinger at 9-1. Yeah, that's a good bet. Demko, why wouldn't Dallas play him last night? That's weird. That's an overthink. And Toronto, they're one of the favorite teams in the East. It's a good marquee matchup. I don't understand the decision to go to their backup goalie.

Nope, don't know. Wedgwood. And he wasn't bad. He was fine. But. Yep. Don't fault him. I think it's a bit of an overthink.

You know, you're playing against a Western Conference team on the second half of back-to-back, maybe think that's more valuable or whatever, but maybe just play the... Get your points. Yeah, in the first game. Don't worry about who you're playing. All right, and the second thing I have here quickly

is another 6 p.m. puck drop tonight with the... It's in Vegas, 6 p.m., so a 3 p.m. puck drop there. I'm not sure what the relevance of that is. I don't know if there's a big show at the Sphere tonight. I'm not sure, but like the Golden Knights, why would you not i mean they're what are they 10 and 0 15 and 0 already uh minus goal and a half jack eichel to score a goal and conor bedard to score a goal who's out to a slow start 11 to 1 on the same game parlay and that was game time presented by bet

365 visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary to bet 365. Must be 19 pluses, Ontario only. Please play responsibly. How big is that sphere in Vegas? Can you put a rink in there? I don't know. Well, I mean, have you seen... It seems very large.

And then what? Then a shot, like, breaks? Yeah, probably not a great place for... A crystal and then the whole thing just... Well, they want to have the draft there. They want to have... What's the guy from the UFC's name? I always forget his name.

Dana White. Dana White. He's been all over them to have a thing there. Like, everybody that goes there comes away from it being like, that's the most amazing thing. I need to go there. Sammy's planning a trip. Yeah, I want to go to Vegas.

I really want to go. Do a real Kipper and Bourne show from there. I think we should. Yes. And then they'll put your face on the outside and it's like looking around Kipper. I can see that. No, no, no, bad idea.

Okay, we're going to take a quick break. Hey, tell people to text us. We're going to read some texts coming up here. So 590-590, text in your thoughts, your takes, your questions. We want your texts and thoughts. You heard my producer. On the NHL.

Get the texts in. And after the break, we'll keep the theme going here in Canada We want your texts and thoughts. You heard my producer. On the NHL. Get the texts in. Yep. And after the break, we'll keep the theme going here in Canada and talk maybe a little Ottawa Senators. Sammy pumped them up a week and a half ago, and now he's writing them off. Nope. Nope. I'm not jumping ship.

I still think they're good. Hang in there. We'll get into that more. Still plenty to go on The Real Kipper and Bourne Show. The best Blue Jays show out there, period. Blair and Barker. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. down the stretch we come on the rail kipper and Bourne Show on this Friday off the rails

Friday. I don't know. Sammy, what do you got for us? You want to talk about the Sens before we get to text? Okay, I will because I'm the host and that's what I'm supposed to do. You don't have to. No, I'm good. We should. DJ Smith announces Thomas

Shabbat out. Four to six weeks. Ugh. Fractured hand. Ugh. Half a shot block. Brandstrom, who got pasted. Smoked.

Smoked. Is out. And Zub is out. Their top right-hand D isvis hamannik at this point so that's concerning for the sends who have had a couple of tough losses in a row kind of looking to rally yeah now of course we know new ownership there and michael and lauer and i think the sense was that you don't come in and make many changes, which he hasn't, but he added Steyos, Stephen Steyos, we know. Yeah.

And we've heard for two years that this team's supposed to make the playoffs, according to Pierre Dorian. If it doesn't shift back anytime soon would you see a change coming here or there there well you know i don't claim to be an insider on this sort of stuff but your gut my yeah definitely i mean the pinto thing happened you know later in the summer but they still had failed to get him signed earlier which i think you know it's still a failure to get him signed which is still a problem they are spinning their wheels now i think there's some people in that market who are ready there's so many positive fresh starts going on there right they get the new owner

you know they're they're really turning the corner with some of these young stars coming around it just feels like they kind of it's the next shoe to drop with that organization and if they start to lose a little bit here down the stretch and lauer may be a guy was it peter shirelli's an ottawa guy you see that rumor on twitter oh sen's talk is one of the guys who had predicted or reported Ann Lauer getting the team is saying that eventually it'll be Shirelli there. Really? Yeah. I've not heard that one. And that's a complete Twitter rumor, you know, but that's fine.

Yeah, but that's where conversations around the Ottawa Senators are and I think people there. You think Stales stays in that president of hockey ops or would he, if they wanted to make a major change and and get rid of pierre dorian he slides down into a general manager's day-to-day operations or does he stay protected yeah that's a great question i mean that's that's the term everybody uses right

i mean well protected it means that means that there's a buffer. Yeah. Kind of a buffer. It's like a Seinfeld episode. Need a buffer. Yeah. No, they need to win some hockey games. And I think if you're Pierre Dorian,

you're probably really rooting for success over the next stretch here. Certainly enough talent there to win games. Which also, by the way, puts heat on the coach when there's enough talent there to win games. Which also, by the way, puts heat on the coach when there's enough talent there to win games. All right. Sveshnikov coming back to Carolina. And they need him. Yeah.

They're probably the most, well, I was going to say most disappointing team so far this year. That's the Oilers. But Carolina defensively a mess. And, you know, just what is their record? They're three and4 right now. It's not been good enough, so they're badly in need of him.

Orlov looks like he's on the third pair. Minus 11. He was incredible in Boston during that run. I'm hesitant to say this. It didn't end well but

yeah it was good enough for him to get a seven and a half million dollar contract albeit just for two years but he is something's wrong there something's not right is it uh is he not picking up rod brindamore's system well i'm hesitant to say this after doug's sermon he just gave us about this it's the system he's not picking up washington played a zone defense which is handing guys off and not as much skating boston pretty notorious for having played a zone with a lot of success a lot of the league changed based on that britain more has good d-men they play man on man chase your guys around be a better defender than that guy is at offense. So for Orlov, it's a different amount of skating.

Not saying that's why. I'm not saying I don't know. But it is a different system for a guy who's had success playing the other way. That's all I know. Not saying what's Doug's expression. Not telling you what I know or telling you what I heard or something. That's all I'm doing, telling you what I heard. That's good.

Okay, a few texts. While you're here, what do you got? If you were Ken Holland, what would you do with Connor Brown heading into game 10 and a $3.225 million bonus to be paid with him having no points and a minus player? The bonus impacts next year's cap. Love the guy, but wow, what a tough decision. No, not a tough decision you made a

commitment to connor brown he's coming off major surgery last year you you're in you're in with connor he's not going anywhere and imagine looking at your team that's one five and one and saying what if we had one less useful player like you just can't do that i don't know how they would even you gotta find a way to get him going. Give him a chance. And Sammy, like, he had lots of looks in the last game. Yeah, he had some chances in the third. There's some signs it's coming for him a little bit.

And if I'm not mistaken, Jeff Jackson, who's the president now of Hockey Ops. Oh, I forgot about that. Was his rep, his agent, his rep. Like, Connor Brown's not going anywhere. Like, Connor Brown, get 20 or 30 games under his belt before you judge him because he is coming off a major surgery. And he's one of those guys, like, you want to have him on your team in playoffs, down the stretch.

He cares. Hey, do we have an Edmonton Oilers clip? We have a million, but do you want to play it? It's a very boring move to ask Sam to get a whole bunch of clips. I want to hear from Zach Hyman. Okay. So are we going to do that right now? Okay, Dutchie.

Dutchie, on your toes. We're an offensive team. We scored zero goals today. You know? Like, we blame, you know, a lot of the blames on our D zone, our defensive system, our defense. We didn't score anything today, you know, a lot of the blames on our D-Zone, our defensive system, our defense. We didn't score anything today, you know. See, he's buying into the Doug McLean.

Can I tell you the only place I've seen anyone write anything about Edmonton's system? I think Elliot mentioned it in 32 Thoughts once. Like, everyone reads that article, huh? Like, that's all these... Everyone's talking about our system. It's like, no, it happened once in one place and everyone's reading it which kudos to elliot and by the way i am working on something next

week on edmonton system so it's in the hopper it's coming all right follow up did you uh do you want some more of these clips or do you want to just keep doing text uh just one last thought on edmonton is that i i thought for sure that they were going to get this bump. I expected them better without Connor McDavid. Better? Yeah. No, I did. It happens. No passengers. We got to pick it up. Okay.

Over the years in Pittsburgh, Sid out, Malkin steps up. Okay, that's... If we go back to history in Pittsburgh, it's pretty well documented. The year Conor's out, Leon wins the Hart Trophy. They've done it in Edmonton before.

Yeah, and guess what? Leon's got to do it again. This is Leon now, who it could be argued he might be the second best player in the world. Yeah, I'm here for that debate. I mean, Kale McCarr is...

I don't think he is. Stop it. You're right. I didn't make that comment to get into this. Can you shut the pie hole for a second? It's not why I said it. I'm just saying that he's that good.

The numbers are great. He's in a small cluster of elite guys who are there. There's a window that says, Connor out, Leon, step up. 100%. And I did not like the body language last night. He's upset all the time Upset all the time That's a general thing

Even when things are going well He's just a grumpy guy I like that I hated playing with guys who were happy all the time Have you seen those commercials he's on On the dock with Mitch Marner And Chris Pronger I have

He looks pissed off in that commercial I'd be pissed off Remember I told you I don't like playing dress up. He looks pissed off in that commercial. I'd be pissed off. Remember I told you I don't like playing dress up? Imagine you asked me to do that commercial. The things that those guys are wearing in that commercial, I'm like, boys, I hope it was a big check. Now keep in mind, there's a number. So I don't blame him.

And for Leon, there was probably a number. So you're telling me next weekend or for Halloween, I just need to hit a number? me with the check and i'm in your costume man pal tin man you didn't even tell me this you didn't even give me the option to pay you off um speaking of odds love this question if toronto had a second team what would be the odds they would win the cup before the leafs 100 100 they definitely would oh i mean it's just the way it goes for the leafs it just feels like that i don't want to call them cursed but i think there's a i think there's a possibility down the road but it's gonna take a while it's It's the only place on the planet you could have two NHL teams. I mean, it does feel like an underserved market here.

It does feel like you could quite easily do it. The women won, right? The Toronto Six, they won a title. Soon to be the Toronto Torch, I think. Yeah, it was a completely different thing, but that's not the best team name. What's the team got going on here? Straight up overall performance, Mitch Marner or William Nylander?

Your opinions. This season? Yeah. Willie. Yeah. Willie's been the more dynamic player. Okay. Yeah, I mean, he's got 11 points or something like that to Mitch's six,

and they're both offensive guys. Yeah. Yeah, that's all I got for you on that anything else no it's a good I'm with you uh true living really deserves a ton of credit for going to arbitration with Samsonov and only doing one year discuss great show from Steve thanks Steve like that prompt okay let me ask you a question because I wrote in a Toronto article, please go to my Twitter account, my ex-account, about a goalie controversy.

Do you need one goalie to be making like X amount, like say $5 or $6 million and be on a long-term deal to have a controversy can samsonov be in a controversy with joseph wall right now on this one-year deal that uh the guy that said steve mentioned i would say you could have a controversy he was the starter going into the year while the presumed backup he was guy with more money and kind of seemed like he was playing for that next deal. Okay. Yeah.

Okay. I'm with you. I'm backing you up. I'm with you. No, thank you. I appreciate that. I could have used a more,

more of it yesterday, but that's okay. People were quibbling over the language of controversy when it's a goalie fight. Let's give some love to Luke Fox, who's got an article on Sportsnet.ca, and he's talking about Samsonov.

Basically, it's talking about Samsonov having some battles right now, right? Yeah, talking about the mental health aspect of the game. Did you read it? I didn't read it. some battles right now, right? Yeah. Talking about the mental health aspect of the game. Okay, did you read it? I didn't read it. It was between breaks. I skimmed it enough to know that he says that

I don't feel good. I feel like S-word. And that it doesn't want his family to see him like this. And he's been working, talking with Curtis Sanford and trying to work his way through it. Okay. Can I ask you this? Please. He's through it. Okay. Can I ask you this? Please.

He's starting Saturday. Yeah. Is that based on this new information and how he feels and the place he is mentally, is that a good idea to start him Saturday? Well, it gives him the opportunity to get out of the hole he's in. Did we ever do the clip? Yeah, you know what else it does?

You know what else it does? It gives him the opportunity to dig the hole deeper. So you think protect him from himself? I don't know what the right answer is. I'm just a host. In a league where you are trying to accumulate as many points as possible, you have one guy with an atrocious mental condition and one guy who's on top of the world and looks fantastic.

Yeah. It is a choice to not go back to wall. Is the team putting him in a position of strength or weakness? I think you've got to give a guy a chance to play his way out of it. I don't, I'm not debating that. I'm not even questioning that. But don't you have to be in a good space mentally to give yourself that opportunity?

And are they putting him in that place? We talked to them having 40 staff members. It's game eight. It's so true. If this is too much right now you're in real trouble no and you can't be like we got to keep going to wall he's at a he's never played however many games it's game eight you need samson off he's not starting every game yeah it's not belfort going 70 games quick hook you start with the uh oscars music playing from

the bench and the hook the sheep hook ready to give it a tug if you need. Yeah, if it's going bad, like, oh, man, pulling them again? Yeah. I don't know. I'm concerned. Yeah. I don't know. If I'm from the Leafs, that article maybe,

maybe they knew about it, maybe they don't know about it, but that's... I'm guessing they know he feels like you gotta we gotta you gotta make sure you put your athletes in a in a position of strength and to to do well that's all and that's i'm just thinking about him yes and there's two sides of it yes you're right he can have a great game he could dig himself out of this, or it could make him feel worse. Yes. There's a Sheldon Keefe quote.

He says, it's early. Let's relax. This is a really good goalie that carried us through some tough times last year and had a career year, so let's let it breathe. Tomorrow's another opportunity for him to get in there and build his game back. I wonder if the Leafs knew about that article. I don't know. if i'm the leafs if it's if it's if he's battling or he's got these issues like let's deal with them internally

i think it's also important to distinguish between dealing with a struggle like i'm having a tough time with my confidence and a mental health thing, you know, which to me is like, one is like a clinical sort of thing. And what are we dealing with here with Samson off? Uh, I love this text. No one read it. I absolutely love this show.

I'm a 70 year, 73 year old woman who was not a TV buff, but don't get in my way. When Kipper born and Sammy, it is the joy of my day. Oh, my. Thanks, guys. Mom?

That is a fantastic Friday. I know. That is. What's her name? She didn't say. My mom's not. She didn't say. She didn't say.

So if you are still listening, text and tell us your name so I can say it. Thank you so much. She put the show back on the rails. That's our sweet, sweet text. That's a great way to go into the weekend. So thanks. Really good. Any tea time for the boys this weekend?

Well, I know you have one. I'm going to try to get out next week for the last time. Whoever plays last is the real winner from this show. Sammy plays first every year. He goes to Dawn Valley in about February and just plays. They haven't cut the grass yet. The galoshes on the head on down there. All right, give me a score in the outdoor game Sunday. 0 haven't cut the grass yet. Get the galoshes on. Head on down there. All right, give me a score in the outdoor game Sunday.

0-0 to a shootout. They just stay on their own halves until everyone gets a point. Chaos. Like six, four Oilers. I think Flames win and the Boos rain down at Commonwealth, baby. Ooh, that's quite the bold prediction. I'm going to take the Oilers by a goal.

And I think it'll be greasy. Connor with the hat trick. He's going back in. Let's hope. Seriously, I'm dead serious. If he's healthy, play, but do not

mess with the franchise and the face of the league if he's not. play, but do not mess with the franchise and the face of the league if he's not. Thanks for joining us, everybody. Enjoy your weekend. Enjoy your outdoor game. And we are back Monday. It's always Real Kipper and Bourne.