Real Kyper & Bourne - A Minor Trade for the Leafs + Paying the Devils a Visit

Episode Date: November 23, 2022

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne, and Sam McKee start the show by doing their best to not get too distracted while Canada takes on Belgium at the World Cup. They persevere by announcing a Leafs trade, acquiring defenceman Conor Timmins from the Arizona Coyotes in exchange for forward Curtis Douglas. Later on, they preview another game vs. the New Jersey Devils, and get into a conversation with NHL on TNT analyst Darren Pang. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590 The Fan. Let's welcome in everybody to our special one-hour World Cup fever edition of Real Kipper and Bourne. Wherever you are watching and listening on Sportsnet 590 the fan sports nets youtube channel sports net now welcome in and let's take a breather it's halftime canada and belgium we are now started officially and let me just get it right out of the way how the hell is canada down one nothing to belgium ridiculous which i can't even believe we're saying given the expectations going into the game but boy absolute dominance in the first half i our boy sammy in there i don't even know if he's okay

he said that the way he felt during that uh first half made the Leafs first round games feel like preseason. Really? That's how emotional he felt. Really? That's a great hat, Borny. I felt things during that half of football that I have not felt in a very long time when it comes to sports and engagement. I think I went into the game expecting it to be more of you know a belgium

beat down in canada maybe lucky to get one on the counter and canada was not even close like they were by far the better team in the first half their their talisman their superstar alfonso davies misses a penalty gets stopped by tibo courtois and it just felt like the game changed right after that. And you know where the conversation's going right off the bat and it will be a hundred or a thousand times larger on whether Alfonso was the guy to take the penalty shot or should they have given it to David? Yeah, I just talked to Jeff Blair

before we came on here and blair he's going to be on kicking the grass after this with the vang to sigh um and who else someone else dan riccio and jeff blair so that's coming up after this but jeff was saying that uh you know shouldn't have been alfonso but it's not like they rolled me out to take the kick. I mean, that guy should be able to convert or have a good chance at it. How long was he out with a hamstring? Not long. Well, what?

Two weeks. Two weeks. This is first game action in a couple weeks. Is that enough to have not given it to him? No. He's, like, listen, I'm hearing the Blair argument. I understand that part of it i do you maybe give it to the guy that's more inclined more of a center forward more of a guy's going to shoot in the net you think better at it yeah but alfonso dv is your best player you want the historic

moment best player biggest player doesn't mean you're the best at a penalty it's gritsky in the shootout right it's sand gritsky is this nagano you want if i'm a canadian soccer fan which i am i want the first goal in canadian world cup history to be converted by their best all time you know who i want yeah it matters you know you know who i want to get a kick i want the best guy that gives me a chance to go up one nothing that's that's. So now you're going all... I'm grasping at straws. I'm devastated back here. I'm sorry, man. I'm just grasping at straws. But man, they were dominant.

Dominant. Beyond that even. He's already like... He's gone to Hollywood for the movie. The movie version of this story. I see. I see. Yeah, yeah. He wants a better script for the movie that they're going to make in 20 years script winning yes but my god i mean just by the expected

goals in that period or two and a half for canada to half a goal for belgium and they're losing so bernie i was loving your hockeyisms throughout they were great underlying they were good on the four check they were got it deep got after match. They were good on the forecheck. They were. Got it deep. Got it after. Made him turn. Good through the middle. Except a couple times, Kevin De Bruyne unmarked down the middle. A little scary. You gotta keep an F3. You cannot let De Bruyne get cruising. Belgium gets the one up the middle

and they bury it. What a pass. And what a ball in that was. Just boom. That's the thing. Right down the gut. That's why teams like that, that's why they're ranked number two in the world. Because they have guys that make unbelievable plays even when they're not playing that well. You know, it just happens quick. So it's about to start here.

I'll be trying my best to stay engaged. I've got some clips from Keith talking about, I don't even know what. At least make it trade. I cut five or six. When we want to get your attention, you take that hat off and you just start waving it around. Okay. Ear flaps up mean we need you. Ear flaps down mean I'm invested.

All right. Toronto Maple Leafs. We've got a trade. We have a trade to announce. We've got a trade to announce. Not wasting any time getting some help. Kyle Dubas trades with someone he's very familiar with. Bill Armstrong.

Is he the only guy who will take Kyle's calls? I think so. Kyle's calling around. It's like a lot of people change their numbers in this league. Bill's picking up. Defenseman for a forward. We've got Curtis Douglas, a member of the Toronto Marlies, now headed to arizona

for connor timmons yes a one-time high prospect yeah he had a lot of upside ran into some injuries including uh a fairly significant concussion did you know that i didn't know that. Yeah, he's battled. I think he's missed close to, like, a season. Wow. If I'm not mistaken. Here's what I know about him. I know he is 6'2 and 200 pounds. He shoots right.

He was drafted in the second round barely, I think 32nd overall, which technically now is the first round. And he makes, makes like league minimum and they have no d-men so to me it's like okay and take a flyer and he played for the uh sue greyhounds god why why does that have to be in fact he may have played he was a partner i think of mac holla of mac holla it hit to sammy's point he saw hollowall in practice and went god i'd sure prefer to have his partner from the zoo just went out and got an up the upgraded guy on the pair so yeah

this is at the very least throw it on the wall and see if it sticks 100 you just need options like there weren't even guys to turn to anymore like i don't believe you or anyone even they believe that mac hollowell is going to be a permanent fixture could connor timmons i actually like hearing that he had some injury issues not because that's good yeah but because you'd like to think that there's something that held him back from reaching potential that's that's that's the thing right now yeah is that uh is is the worst behind him? And can Kyle see something in him that says once he gets over that hump? And we've all played with guys. Are you just like, ah, he's injury prone? And it's like they just need that one stretch where they can get out of that

and start getting a regular field, a routine, get consecutive games in. I don't know if it's going to be this kid or not but it's it's worth a shot here they were they were down on curtis douglas really yes because going into the year you know i talked to people who thought he might be the next guy oh no no if i'm not mistaken at some, either at the end of last season or going into the summer, Kyle Dubas made it a point to say that they think that this kid can come in and challenge. Yeah. Well, and I believe he plays center as well, Douglas,

and you got Pontus Holmberg up here who had no goals, not a physical menace. He clearly hadn't, Douglas didn't have the season they were hoping for. I don't know if you want more on him yeah just to add um that connor timmons like there is some there is some pedigree here he was his second round pick the 32nd overall pick oh no second second round sorry six foot two right shot defenseman highly regarded as a top prospect was he once colorado no it's someone else um but yeah no he is yeah he's he comes from from somewhere where he was expected to be great so that's good the one thing that does concern me fellas whether he's been injury prone and working his way back or not

he can't crack the arizona coyotes d-card jj moser moser and you know patrick dyson mayo troy stetcher, I don't know. He can't crack that group. Well, he's going to come in, fairly skilled guy, a puck mover. I guess he can get pucks through to the net. He had 60 points when you're in the OHL. So there is that pedigree a little bit.

Wow. But he gives them nothing when it comes to sandpaper and grit. That's not this guy. So if we want to, you know, even go back to what we thought was a fairly minor trade last year for Labushkin, he is not that guy. No. It's more of what the Leafs have stylistically.

You could have had Ryan Reeves for fifth. Ryan Reeves got traded today, if you don't know that. We saw that. To the Minnesota Wild. Boy, did he fall out of the books in New York. You know, I haven't watched him closely, admittedly, but I wonder, like, is his play falling off? Because he's still the same intimidating guy.

He still is fighting when I watch the highlights. A few healthy scratches, I think. Yeah. You wonder if he went off the ice and was like, hey, I'm not doing this. I think they just got tired of his act. Yeah. Yeah.

And just about. Him and Beast doing that. And, you know, listening to Billy Guerin, just read a quote off of Billy Guerin garren on picking up ryan reeves um it's not for the fighting he says he's a big personality he's got a lot of energy and he's got swagger and we've been missing that so uh it's that energy it's that bigger than life it's funny because bill has that feel and so he would recognize like you know what value that might have to a group and what's he making what's he making 1.7 uh i don't know that yeah i think that's correct should i be mean and and make

sammy look it up what are you guys talking about ryan reeves how much does he make it like yeah i'm i'm yeah i was trying to look up the minnesota wild lineup because i think one seven my thought on the wild is that's already a pretty tough team right like he signed for this year at 1.75 and that's it his deal's done erickson neck marcus felino jordan greenway jacob middleton they got some big guys he signed a one-year deal you traded 1.7 for a big personality you could add the three of us for a lot cheaper don't you think yeah everyone's available for a price and mine ain't that tell you that much do we know if uh tim is can get in the lineup tonight i don't know about tonight it would seem unlikely unless they oh no sometimes you catch a flight you're three hours away just pack a tooth i don't think they could pull the rug out

on hollow well now though like the guy's like he's playing he did an interview for sports net he's talking about how it means the world to him and everything you couldn't just charlie brown pull the football away from him like can't be lucy i think two o'clock on friday afternoon though connor timmons will likely be suiting up for the Toronto Maple Leafs. I think we will see him, yes. Friday, the day that we are doing the postgame and not a show. Yeah. It's going to be interesting.

For sure. All right, well, Connor Timmons, there you go. There's another body for you. Right-hand shot and 6'2". I like to gamble. Honestly. What's the harm? I mean, if Douglas wasn't going to come in,

he didn't see a spot where he was going to help you, there's no harm here. Yeah, listen, you't going to come in, he didn't see a spot where he was going to help you. There's no, no harm here. Listen, you know, until he becomes Mason Marchman 2.0. That's, that's it. Like you went there. You, you, you, that's what they thought he might be. You got rid of a guy that you thought was pretty much like Curtis Douglas. And is there a chance that this thing goes, Kyle goes over to on these type of players?

Yeah. You know, there is a chance. And I, what, what concerns me most about Curtis Douglas is he's 22 years old. So he's still very young at 22 and he's six foot nine. And so six foot nine, it takes a little while to coordinate all that. I don't know if you watch Zidane O'Chara the leagues or years in the league but he wasn't zidane ochara well this is where kyle dubas and i'm sure his staff goes he will never be the bear that chara was or to us to maybe even a lesser extent uh mason marchman like those guys they don't mind getting their noses dirty and that's where they looked at curtis douglas

and they weren't happy with him at all well you know last year they thought they thought he was way too soft really this year this year and you know what else last year the guy scores 13 times in 60 some games and they're like all right we might have something here he comes in at age 22 they've played 13 games no goals one assist so he goes from being a you know a half a point per game guy on top of the pims to you know the other thing that kind of makes me nervous, though, when the Leafs evaluate talent is that Mason Marchment has exceptional hockey IQ. Like, it's really good. Really slippery hands, too.

And they just didn't see it. Like, that is a little bit of a concern that how can a guy that can do what he's doing in dallas or what he's done uh on that short uh sample in florida like how did they not see a guy like that when he was with you with the marley's and to give him i think they did my my understanding is they just thought he couldn't stay healthy which like Connor Timmons is probably a bad reason to give up on a guy who's 23 24 ball in Canada um you know not not a great reason to give up on a guy you know it is I'm just worried about that the coordination comes for Douglas and it happens down the road. But here's my question to you, Kipper.

It doesn't feel like young guys coming into the league today are either willing to or aware of the fact that if you just be the bulldozer, that teams will want you. That not everyone has to be the skill guy. And like, I thought that with Richie when he was here and Douglas too. Douglas didn't have to score a goal this year. If he came out and was nasty, it's they'd have used them. It's just so hard. I think today for players to identify that and then ask themselves the

question, do I want to do it? I want a life of that. Do I want to commit to being the guy see that's where a lot of these kids are just dumb you don't have to fight much anymore you don't you know the best piece of advice i got from like a guy like tim kerr when i first broke into speaking of tough yes and tim was kind of cut from the same cloth as me, undrafted, came in, played a bit of a role early, big, strong guy, got his nose dirty,

and then he bought himself time. Yeah. The key in all of this, when you make that decision, is buy yourself time. And if a guy like Curtis Douglas came in and just, like, think about this for a second. The Leafs are dying for a fourth line, fourth liner, big mean, can just chase people around. The door's not even open.

It's off the hinges. All you need to do is just fake it till you make it. And then if it's in you to go to another level then they move you up a little bit you have a couple of looks with a guy named Tavares and Bob's your uncle you've come in right and you've shut the door yeah and you know what they'll do that though but you know what they're and that's not an option for everyone I look at Nick Robertson and I've got an article that should be out on Shane Wright any minute here. But those guys don't have the option to do what you're talking about,

to fake a team, make it play physical. But they can play defensively and do other things. But when you have the option to do what Curtis Douglas had as an option, or what I assume a number of guys in the Marlies have the chance to do, I get it's hard to flip the switch and be that guy and try to give up on scoring or whatever but boy just be more well rounded and go go go all right jam-packed hour while we check on the corner of our eye give us an update sammy what do you hear just get a yellow for something what do you got going here honestly boys it's more the same canada's playing really well they've missed a few chances here i i fear that it's going to be similar to the first half it would be my my comparison the

least comparison from before was you know and against montreal in the playoffs when they were all over them all over them dominate dominate the montreal would quick strike the other way on a on a rush so i will say though i am incredibly encouraged about how good canada looks like well if they look like this gets bel Belgium, they can play against anyone. Bingo. So I'm excited by this performance so far. I would love them to find a point. Just tie it up somehow.

Kick it into the big hockey net. Here's the thing about soccer. The net's big. It's real big. Just kick it in there. One guy pounded one in the first half. Gave it a run. Just one more follow-up on our conversation. Good.

We should talk hockey. Yeah, we are talking hockey. And just with the kids today and identifying that yeah should a coach do that um we'll talk after on that go ahead the other thing in the equation is that we're talking about a new generation that have probably come from a family with deeper pockets than our generation. Good pickup. So we really found that when it came to, you know, kids out west, you know, farmers and, you know,

people that watch their parents really work and labor. And knowing that, you know, my dad probably never made much more than 30 40 000 a year and i now i've got a chance to make 100 or 200 if i just do this yeah and those decisions were a lot easier um you gotta go get a job anyway if it doesn't work out we we talk all the time to the alumni and we talk about kids and it's like, you know, how upset is my kid after a loss, you know, driving in the back of a Range Rover. Range Rover on a Nintendo Switch. Just like, yeah. So, you know, I think that's a really good point.

I don't think there's a lot of players coming up right now who have the, I need do this or i gotta go get a job with the coal mines mentality exactly yeah so that that's just another factor here that's right mom and dad i blame you for giving me a quality upbringing for my lack of grit okay look at this we're 20 minutes into the show not one kipper is Clipper. We got him, though. We got him. Yeah. Sheldon Keefe opening our Kipper is Clipper. Have we got anybody watching on YouTube or anybody listening? All right. Can we just sit around like an episode of Blazing Saddles around the fire for one hour? And would anybody notice? I am so thankful for our real Kpper on board i am too 408 people watching on youtube like that's incredible tip

your hat thank you tip that beautiful bucket that you have on morning yes all right hey oh we got to mention we got darren pang oh yeah panger we got panger we would have been up one nothing against belgium on that penalty kick if panger was the goalie 100 it might be two nothing there's a couple of kicks there he would never have reached it got to no fair observation never reached it we got darren pang in about five minutes what do you want to start with oh we're gonna start with keith on uh on some adversity particularly we know the blue line let's have a listen for sure i do i think that's that's part of it right is the season you know 382 games it tests you it challenges you in all sorts of different ways.

And I think that's where you build a team and that's where you grow as a team. And the reality is that's kind of the best part of the journey. A team like ours, a lot of times you say, let's fast forward and get right to the playoffs and get where it really counts. But the journey and the path and the grind that you go through, that's the best part of it. And the teams that handle that the best are the ones that ultimately, you know, come out in the end when it counts the most in the playoffs. That's what we want to be. Just so happens that we have dealt with a lot here through 20 games. You know, maybe a season's worth of stuff that we've dealt with through 20 games. And here we are still standing and, you know,

building a lot of belief in what we're trying to do as a team and recognizing that the foundation that we've put in place defensively gives us a chance to compete in every game no matter who's in the lineup. So that mindset needs to continue while we continue to push and challenge ways to score more, both five on five and our power play for that matter. Okay, Sammy, you got to pay attention because I need you on this one. All right, focus.

I love that. I love that clip. Just talking about the adversity. What do you got? Is this the worst stretch of lost men that Brendan has had in seven or eight years now? No. Is there a worse one? It was the year Tyson Berry was on the Leafs.

And they had Tyson Berry and Martin Marincin as their top pairing for a while. I remember they lost. I think it was Riley was out. Again, it was... Riley was out at that point too. He doesn't miss much hockey. Muzzin was out. There was a big point where there was a bunch of guys out

and they were... It was not good, but this is a testing stretch here. No doubt. So my observation from Sheldon there is him trying to sell it that the real friends, what is it, the journey along the way, that's where it really matters. It's all about the journey, not the destination. Yeah, a little early for me on that one.

Yeah, the end result is about the friends you made along the way. I wouldn't have pulled out the journey card just yet. Yeah, well, that was an interesting angle. The other thing, though, I do believe that instead of right now being like, oh, my God, we're playing our ninth D or whatever, if you don't learn now what you have in these guys, you don't want to find out come playoffs, or you don't want to find out in the second round, you know,

when you're down to your eighth or ninth guy. So let's see. You know, let's see what Sandin does with Moore. And I don't even mean Mack Hollowell. Let's just see what Lilligren does with Moore. Can Ben play consistently well with Riley? I think it's a good time to learn about your team, so I can heed what they're saying

a little bit on some of this. Leafs made the trade official, by the way. There you go. Timmons for Punchy Douglas. I'm just mad we lost him. We never got to see him once, so there you go. It's an official. He is taller than Hallowell and Victor Mete. Taller.

Yeah, well, geez. Combined. So I'm just, I get it that he's soft, but I don't know. Just maybe it would have been nice to have a couple of looks at him. Just to. At Punchy. It would have been nice to have a couple of looks of him. At punchy. Yeah, punchy. Just to kind of put the nail in his coffin that it won't work here.

I agree. Because you wonder if the opportunity to get up would have made him a little hungrier to show what he could be for them. There was an issue there. I'm telling you right now. There was an issue there i'm telling you right now there was an issue uh i think early in the season if i'm not mistaken shalgren got run oh and they were like where were you oh i'll tell you where he was he's right beside i think the guy that ran shalgren just giving him a hug pretty much yeah that's tough and i i don't think it sat well. Huh. It is a funny thing where if you play a certain role, you don't always get to dictate when you are needed to be a certain way.

You want to play one more clip before we get to Patrick? Yes. Because Robertson's getting in tonight. Yeah. So we should play the one getting the opportunity. No. What do you want to play? I want to play Keefe on Facing the Devils.

Okay. Defensively, we've got to do a lot of what we did. We just have to maintain it for three periods. That's been the biggest challenge here as you look at the games that they've won, especially the ones of late. They stay with it for 60 minutes

and the other team seems to go away. We need to stay with it all the way through. That's not easy. It takes a lot of discipline, full commitment, all those kind of things. It's a team that's got a lot of confidence and playing well through four lines and six defense and playing well as a group on offense and defense. So there's a big challenge there for sure,

but a huge opportunity here for us, a huge opportunity for us to rally around the adversity we have on defense and the situation we're in there. The fact we're playing a very good team on the road. So these are the kind of games I think just get you a little more excited to play. Can we play that one more time? I was watching the soccer game. They just need to be good on offense and on defense

and play for 60 minutes well because the Devils are really good on both sides of the ball. We just watched them last week. So you tell me, JB, what are we going to see tonight? We see a depleted blue line for the Toronto Maple Leafs. We see a team that has won 13 games in a row and is a lot closer to history than they were a week ago. I mean, think about the Devils now coming into this game and the strut that they have and the heater that they're on

and how good they feel. Is this a team that's going to waste an opportunity to continue their historical run here on a team that's lost half their blue line? I, you know, it feels weird for the Leafs. There aren't many games going into it when you expect them to, oh boy, cannon trouble, where you expect them to, you know, they're the real underdog, right?

Whether it's betting or opinion or whatever, this is, they tend to perform fairly well in these positions when they're not when it's supposed to be hard the one thing i think with this leafs team is that they have to use their strength to their advantage which is possession you know you need the guys to have the puck in the devil zone and circle around and you can't just be firing in random shots on hope they need to kind of play at that end of the rink because at some point Jordy Ben and Mac Hollowell are going to be out there against Miles Wood and Bastion and McLeod or it's going to be Zetterlund and Hughes and whoever else they play with this is a game where Matthews and Marner have to have the puck more

than anyone else over 60 minutes they also need to score like I mean that's obvious and I know but like they need to take advantage of their chances they need to score. Like, I mean, that's obvious and I know, but like they need to take advantage of their chances. They need to score just to, I think, make it interesting and close. Right. Like if they, this game is probably, and this is super jinxy, but you're looking at a, you know,

if they're in this one, it's 3-3 in the third at some point, that sort of thing. Like where you score with them because you have to believe this devil's team, the way they create is going to get their offense against a really depleted D-core for the Leafs. Defensively, boy, there's two pairs that are worrisome for the Leafs.

Is this Sammy? Where's Banger? Is he coming? I was just about to call. Oh, okay. I want you in this conversation. Is this tonight a fork in the road in terms of how bad it could be moving forward or whether or not they can find a way to battle the adversity that sheldon is and and tread water until they get brody back i think it's a great point i think it's there's probably a lot of dubious eyes on this game tonight

seeing what this decor looks like against potentially the best team in the NHL. Yeah. What's the difference between a win, a loss, and a bad loss? It's a good question. 4-3 loss to a team that's been humming like this? In New Jersey. Or a 7-1 loss to a team that's been humming like this jersey or uh a seven one loss we'll see how old matt murray looks behind this decor because yeah that's team oh you know this uh i sound like mckee here but thank god it is murray like i feel good that one of the two guys

they mean to be the goalie is is in uh you know not to carve on shalgren but it has been cool by call panger yeah yeah call panger now hey yeah get them out here some uh some takes on st louis blue speaking of teams on fire they've won seven in a row is that good how does that happen well i don't know they've had three streaks all year they won four they lost eight they won seven they're i think they're currently in a playoff spot after losing eight straight games, 19 games into the season. So we're going to find out from Darren Pang on that. But this is the market, Kipper.

This is American Thanksgiving, the one everyone talks about. If you're in, you're in. If you're within three or four points of the playoffs, or if you're not within three or four points, you're cooked. Tonight for me has a feel that there's going to be a potential swing here. And this is the issue with Toronto Maple Leaf fans or the media in general. It's like, go big or go home. You're going to have a huge great opinion of the Leafs

or you're going to have the worst opinion ever. And it just seems like this game might dictate where people fall after 60 minutes. Okay, let's welcome in Panger. I said that if you were the goalie for Belgium, we would have been up 1-0 in the first half, Canada. Yeah, probably. You know, he's like six foot forever and made a huge save. 6'11".

6'11"? They have a goalie 6'11"? It's cheating. Yellow card. Oh, my God. That's three of you, Panger. 6'11"? Are you serious?

Yes. Hi, Borny. How you doing, Kipper? You know what, Kipper? Yeah, buddy. I don't eliminate my afternoon naps on game days for too many people. Oh, you're awesome. Because you know what?

We had trouble booking anybody to come on. It's Canada and Belgium. And no, I'm just, no, you were our first call. You were our first call. And I'm not kidding you. I don't know. Why don't you send them some Greek food over there? How was your schedule? How is your schedule?

How is your schedule? Soccer players playing well on the pitch. Yes. How does the pitch look anyway? The pitch looks fantastic. I would love to hit like a four iron off of it. Ooh. Wow.

I've seen you hit a four iron. It is that pure. Beautiful. Hey, how's your schedule? Oh, busy. Really busy. That's pure. Beautiful. How's your schedule? Busy, really busy. Remember when I was with you on Wednesdays on Sportsnet? I sure remember, buddy. I remember busting my chops getting there from wherever.

Yes. And now I'm on that same one. Tonight's not a TNT game for me. I'm going to do the Friday TNT game. So that allowed me to do the Blues game here in Buffalo. And I've been busy. I've been really busy. Luckily, I have a lot of five-hour energies.

Yes. Good. And at night, a bourbon or two. And then I'm ready to go again. Good. And so I want to get your thoughts on the Toronto Maple Leafs, you know, from your perspective and people still not – we know what's going on with the injuries, but that alone, do you think that this is an elite team on the outside looking in

when they're healthy or there's just too many uh uncertainties still well i i do think in the games that i've watched uh fellas that the one area that it's still for me that has to be a bit of a concern and it's it's that way for a lot of teams that have some skill and they you know you want to play some pond hockey or you want to keep you know making plays through the seams and is getting to the front of the opposition's net. And, you know, I even think that game against New Jersey would have been a good example of that.

And I talked to a couple of my friends that were, you know, in pro scouting and assistant general managers and were at that game. And I just wanted to know, like, how was that game? Was it, and they're like, well, you know what? New Jersey did a great job of defending the slot, defending their own net, and really, you know, Toronto didn't get there.

And I think that's a big part of it. As we look at the regular season, and there's lots of hockey left to play, but to establish the territories is going to be very important for, you know, a skilled team like Toronto, and that is how badly do you want to get to the net? How badly do you want to get to the crease? How badly do you want to get to the front of the net?

So, I mean, those are areas that I think that inner toughness and that defending your own net and then getting to the front of the net of the opposition and do whatever it takes to get there. Because as we know, as the season goes on, those dot-to-dot passes, those beautiful plays from behind or looking for the next layer or looking for the next play, that doesn't work once you get in the seven-game playoff series because that's the part that gets defended really well.

So as I look at them, I still consider them an elite team with skill, with pucks, with plays. They would scare the daylights out of me if I was the goaltender facing them. But as we well know, in order to win those 2-1 games and those 3-2 games, you've got to have that grit as well that goes along with that skill. Dare I ask you, are you talking about Austin Matthews? I'm talking about any skilled player that doesn't want to go there.

But Austin, for sure. I mean, yeah, Austin could do, you know, he could certainly do himself a favor. And, you know, I was going to use a phrase. I never use this phrase, but belly up to the bar.

We know that one well. You know, go right to the blue paint. I mean, his numbers aren't horrible, Panger, but they're not. But he's not, he doesn't look like the second best player in the world right now, which, you know, we've been accustomed to thinking it's McDavid, Matthews, and everybody else. Well, and that's, I mean, I think he's's you know he's he still as we well know um has incredible elite high-end skill that is hard to teach but some of the things he does i

still don't i've even looked at it on video and what he how he practices and edge work and all that and man oh man it's hard to uh it's hard to fathom some of the stuff that he can do so we we know that that's there um but maybe you know i don't i'm not sure if early on um that one sequence where he didn't get involved i and i can't remember the team that it was now but um right it was it connect me yes yeah i, I mean, that's one of those circumstances that stay with you for a little bit. And, you know, maybe that's – has that affected him? Is that something that he's got to get, you know, to the grit

to prove to people that, hey, look, I am a big, strong guy. Yeah, get through it and play that way. And I understand in October and early November, listen, I've watched enough hockey to know that a lot of the skill players, they like to play a little pond hockey game. They've still got that mentality, and they're not just there yet. But, boy, it's getting to that point right now where this is where you've got to turn the corner

and play the kind of game that sometimes is an uncomfortable game. And I know that's an uncomfortable game for Austin. And I'm not saying that he's got to go through every single player that he faces one-on-one. But, man, he's so big and he's so strong and he can do that. And it'd be nice to see him be that power forward that goes through some of these players a little bit harder like that. Panger, one of the fantasies, I think, for Toronto Maple Leafs fans is the idea, and this is kind of popular in the analytics community,

that if you're good enough for long enough, you get in the playoffs and get enough kicks to the can, at some point you get the bounces, things go your way. And I wanted to get your take on that because the Blues are often held up as sort of the team that that happened to, that they were good what they make playoffs for 25 26 years I mean they were constantly in playoffs you know do you think the year they won the cup they were the best team in the NHL do they get the bounces like is there a world where for the Leafs they're

a similar team but they just find more bounces one year? Being a part of that whole ride, once January 5th came around or 6th or 7th of that year, I would often say to John Kelly, I'd say, they're not going to lose. They'll be down 3-1 in the third period. And Justin, I'd be like, they'll win the game 4-3. They'll find a way. There wasn't anything lucky about it. It was the way they played.

You know, once Craig Berube got a hold of the, I don't know, the inner soul of the team, there was no denying them. And I don't think they were the best team in the league, but I think they were as complete a team as you're going to find in doing exactly what the coach wanted and we've seen i've seen jim montgomery take some things from the blues and and carry it over to the boston bruins this year you know um before their mentality under under uh under butchie was you know a lot of times they they did fire a lot of pucks towards the goaltender's feet in certain areas.

Now you're watching the Boston Bruins. They're holding on to pucks. They're going around the net. They're in the offensive zone for, you know, one shift, and then the next shift, the next line comes up, and the next line comes off, and it's sustained pressure and sustained pressure. And so there's some similarities that other teams have taken

from that Blues from that blues team to make them a harder team to play against. And that's where people think that they were this big, strong team that was heavy on pucks. Well, they were heavy on pucks because they didn't want to give that puck up. And so anyway, look, looking at the way, you know, actually looking at the way that the blues played that year and looking at the way the Bruins are playing this year, that's always something that if I were any team that has big, strong guys that are good on pucks, that can make a play, I would copy some of the strengths of those two teams and take them on.

And, you know, maybe that's something that Toronto could do as well. We're talking to Darren Pang, former NHL goaltender, hockey analyst with TNT, a guy that I've played golf with in my basement on my simulator. What a life. Yeah. Really. Yeah.

I'm America's guest, not only on the real courses, but also at people's homes. That's a dream. I want that gig. Let's say what poor Kipper's Kipper's wife was just trying to have an afternoon nap, and the simulators raked down below, and I never stopped. I think I went an hour and 15 minutes of just hammering balls down there. Just shanking them through the windows down there? What, Kipper?

Oh, my God. Banger and a lead. Go ahead. No, I was going to say those 1985 Persimmon woods that you have down there. I was just drilling them. Yes. Okay. A hundred percent.

I'm going to lean on your ex-goaltending intelligence and ask you if Matt Murray has changed your mind, if it was ever in fact not in favor of the pickup. But he's starting to win some people over here. It's still early, but what are your thoughts on Matt Murray? Well, I mean, he's, he's, he, like the way, the way I, not the way I played, but I, we're way different in the way that I think of goaltending and that doesn't make him right or me right or whatever.

But, see, I was a catcher of the puck all the time, and so sometimes I see him play, and I'm totally impressed by how he can get to position A and push off and get to B without using extreme athleticism. You know, like, you know, Pecorino gets from A to B and maybe stutter steps along the way and makes up for it because he can catch a puck. And yet, you know, Matt Murray, I've always admired the fact that,

you know, he's not a blocker of the puck, but it doesn't always look like it's going to end up being in his body. It doesn't always look like it's going to end up being in his body. It doesn't always look like it's going to be the save that's traditionally the way that you move around your crease. But when he does so and he pushes off from the post and comes out on top of the crease and gets around from point A to point B, it's like, oh, okay. You know, he grinds it. He grinds it out there. There's some times where I think there's no way in the world he's going to get to that puck kipper, and then he does.

So he's got something inside him, and there's a reason why he's won a couple of cups. But, again, I think that he struggles with some of those movements and it ends up causing injury or whatever it might cause with Mata. You go, oh, boy, is he okay? I guess in a roundabout way, I'm trying to say that a lot of movements don't look smooth, and then when he goes down or he makes a save, I go, is he okay?

I'm sure you guys watch the game the same way. It's like, is he okay? Is that an awkward guys watch the game the same way. It's like, is he okay? Is that an awkward fall or is that a fall that's going to be an injury or what it is? So I – but, again, I have a lot of admiration for him because it doesn't always come easy for him. And so that's where I think that he's got something inside of him. He's got some jam inside of him because he gets through it.

So I'm one of these guys that I hope he does well because he went from Pitt, he goes to Ottawa, he can look good for a certain amount of games, and then he can look a little awkward or maybe a little choppy, and then bang, he gets hurt. So right now the Toronto Maple Leafs need a goaltender that's going to be reliable on that net, and not only a guy that's going to have to make great saves but a guy that's going to be there for them and dependable for them um injury wise and not you know not being on the shelf so

but uh but again we're we're different goalies he's not a goalie that I look at and I go okay that's what that's who I would emulate if I was in the league watching him. And I only say that because just different guys, different goalies, different ways of doing things and different styles. But all in all, I think that, you know, boy, he could be a real hero there in Toronto if he stays healthy and continues to make some saves. Last one for me, Panger, and we appreciate you joining us during Canada's match.

I'm sure it's killing you not watching right now but um what wanted to get your thoughts it would be ridiculous to have you on and not ask about those blues who you watch constantly i think three streaks this year win four lose eight win three win seven what is happening that that team is so streaky and so good and bad at the same time confusing yeah, no team has ever lost eight consecutive games in regulation, zero points in eight games, and then bounced back and won seven in regulation. So, I mean, that's the league right now. And I was just reading an article,

and it was from, I think it was from Pierre Lebrun in The Athletic, and it was Doug Armstrong was kind of talking about the same thing. And this is something that you talk about the Leafs or you talk about skilled teams or whatever, but it's the lack of not recognition from young skilled players how to defend, you know, when you've got the lead. Everybody wants to add on to it. And I think it's a difficult league right now from that point of view.

But how are they? Well, the goalie that I would, like I do love watching, is on a roll, and that's Jordan Bennington. I mean, he's stopping 96% of the shots that have come his way. When you look at a Blues game, you look at him in the net, he looks like a goalie. He's got a tight crouch. He looks athletic.

He's on top of his crease. He's battling like crazy. He's not worrying about all that other stuff. You know, he's not, you know, he's just playing goal. He's even keeled and he's setting the tone for them. He'll play again tonight in Buffalo. And they're believing in one another right now, this Blues team. So anytime you can win seven consecutive games,

you're doing a lot of great things. And when they lost eight consecutive games, they were doing a lot of things very poor. But they have fixed what they went through in that eighth game losing streak, and they're not nearly the same team. It's a night and day difference between the eighth game losing streak and what they're doing right now. You got enough time to go back and nap?

Or did we just bury it? No, no, no problem with me. I'll probably watch soccer. I want to see how the pitch looks. Pitch looks fantastic. Yeah. There's no alcohol, so it's nice and fresh. That's why you're not there.

Hey, they promise you there is, and then they take it away. We've been there before during our careers. Haven't we that way? That's right, away. We've been there before during our careers. Haven't we that way? That's right, buddy. We sure have.

Darren Pang. Enjoy that. And it has been a pleasure being on your award-winning program. Thank you, my friend. Thanks, Pang. I appreciate you. All right, gang. Take care.

Darren Pang. TNT analyst. One of the best. I was on the television last night and one of the questions that was uh asked was if you told every gm in the league you can have austin matthews or kale mccarr yeah what do you think the number split is it's like 16 16 half and half you think it's lopsided one way or the other i do think it's lopsided let's have it kiel mccarr yeah and mcdavid mccarr uh i probably go mccarr whoa yeah i did not see that coming i don't know if anyone

would yeah what are you asking me who's more exciting no they're putting them in the middle and the g and you're saying the gms you're starting a team from scratch. Pick one of these two guys. Defense. I mean, he's unbelievable. Who? McCarr. Unbelievable. He has the fewest games to 200 points for a defenseman in NHL history.

McCarr is more important to win a championship than a McDavid is. Wow. You know, so we started with McDavid, and I dumbed it. Not dumbed it down, but brought it to Matthews. What happened, Sammy? Oh, sorry. I forgot my mic was on. My bad. What happened?

Did we come close? We're at the 87th minute here. Still down one. Sorry, boys. How much time do we have left in this game? Three minutes. Got to be five extra after, though, eh? They've been going a lot.

So maybe seven or eight minutes. Of extra? Of extra. So there's probably about ten minutes left in this game. Okay. Plenty of time. 10 minutes left in the show. We're going to be here with you through the end

before we get to a kick in the grass. Sorry for yelling. No, it's good. Let us know. Let us know. Ask Sammy that question if you can pay attention. Sammy, do you want Austin Matthews or Kale McCarr? Gun to my head and I'm McCarr.

Yeah. We're not doing our show loyalties very well but i think a lot of people recognize that's the choice i think he's a third pick matthews is kale one of the fastest to score 200 points the fastest the fastest in history yeah about for defenseman any bobby or or 195 games 200 points he clapped one top corner the other night also just like controls the pace of play out there he defends he's big 200 points he clapped one top corner the other night also just like controls the pace of play out there he defends he's big he skates yeah the position um from one end to the other is more important than even a centerman yeah i think if you could lock up a 1d that's kale mccarr i i still take did you mcdavid what did you say in the show last night I said McCarver Matthews yeah

but I I didn't even you took McDavid no I did I would I didn't we didn't actually do that

but I don't think I could pass on Connor McDavid but a lot of that is just we talk about him so much more interesting question

for sure it's just it's your philosophy today I I build from the net on out

Nick Robertson or Kel McCar who would you rather have? What kind of... You think Nick's feeling pressure again, or is he... I do. I really hope he goes in there with house money right now. And he gets to play with Marner and Tavares, which to me, that's a nice line for him.

I actually don't like him with Nylander much. Yeah. You know, I don't think that's a good fit, being that both the guys have defenses secondary on their list but i like him with marner and tavarez i think he's got a chance there you know marner passes the puck better than anybody on earth right now maybe outside i don't dry sidle or something but just quickly on our YouTube channel. Makar, 79%. Running away. Matthews, 21%.

And this is a Leafs show. We're also talking an offseason for Matthews by his standards. If you were leading the league right now with 20 goals, it might be different. Maybe not for you. But yes, for sure, we have we'd know different okay let's go back to a kipper's clipper on the opportunity yet again for nick robertson to get nick that

opportunity up there and it's a little bit of a different look you know we've played them lots this season with john and will you know not as much uh with john and mitch so that's something i wanted to get a look at and think that the timing is right. Malik has played very well for us. We've done a lot of good things. We've been really happy with him. Yet there are some things that we want to continue to work on and grow in his game.

And a missing game here and there is not the worst thing for him. At the same time you know it makes it a true competition you know where whether there's guys they slip a little bit uh then you know others are going to come in and play it's interesting that he made the comment about malgan slipping more than just like wanting to get robertson in actually saying that he's seeing a little slippage there he still looks well i think i think i've already seen more than i i thought i would out of mulligan so oh yeah we're talking about sustainable we've never you know we're talking about a guy that's never played regularly in the national hockey league ever before so yeah it's it's hard It's like your first NHL game, and then you're still looking around,

and you're like can't believe where you are, and your family's excited, and your buddies are all excited, and then there's a line you cross, and it's like I've got a job. Well, there's no exhale. Right? Yeah. I've got a job, and what's the job requirement? It's to play consistent, and I'm not as excited as I was maybe a month ago or two months ago,

and now there's an expectation every night I got to do it, opposed to people not being sure. Yeah. It just changes well and there's it's like the goalies who okay you want to play with a free will in net yeah when people have no expectations from you yeah and then when there are expectations what happens yeah totally different and you know not that my experience is that comparable but like being in the american league at first i was very excited like fired up legs pumping whatever and you do get to a point where you're two months in and you're like, you know, now I'm like, I got to get up for a game here. And like, yeah, I got to kick myself. And yeah, it's certainly an issue.

Oh, my God. That was a fast hour. Even during it was how much extra time? Only five game. Five, five more minutes. Two minutes left. Yeah. All right.

Hanging in there. The prospects are looking grim. We just can't believe how good they've been. Okay. So not score. five five more minutes two minutes left here two minutes all right hanging in there the prospects are looking grim we just can't believe how good they've been okay so not score let's go to a new jersey toronto score tonight boys can the leafs keep this close tonight at least win four three in overtime overtime what a super fan i've got a i've got the least probably losing five two you know what, though? Yours at least makes sense. Mine's a total hope and a prayer because I like the Leafs. What do you got, Sammy?

Leafs lose 6-0. All right. Sammy's in a bad spot. We hope you enjoyed our condensed Real Kipper and Bourne show on this Canada-Belgium day. Enjoy the rest of the soccer game. Go Canada, go. Come on, get a big goal here before we go off the air.

You can do it. Got a minute. Sammy? No, Sammy's gone. He's checked out. Stay tuned for Blair, Riccio, and Devang Desai. A kick in the grass.

Very nice. Thank you. Thanks for doing that because I had no idea. And for all our loyal followers on YouTube, thank you very much. Frank the Tank,

Derek Brandeo! Awesome job. Give us a rating and review. We love that. And a thumbs up on the Real Kipper Inborn Show. Thanks, everybody. Have a great night.