Real Kyper & Bourne - All-Star Weakened

Episode Date: February 6, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee begin with a critical look at All-Star weekend, the good, the bad, if the NHL tried too hard to please too many people and what they can do to improve the events next year in Toronto. Former Leafs GM Dave Nonis (21:01) joins the discussion and also shares how the Leafs are approaching the deadline from a front office point of view, their biggest need and what it would take to trade away Matthew Knies. Flames columnist for Sportsnet.ca Eric Francis hops on the show (44:28) to discuss Calgary's season outlook after the All-Star break, the reasons the team has dissapointed this season and what additions they can make to turn it around. Later, Kyper, Bourne and Sam are briefly joined by Kevin Kurz of The Athletic (1:06:31) to break down Bo Horvat's contract extension and Lou Lamoriello's very 'un-Lou' comments about it.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Fan. Hope everybody had a great NHL All-Star Weekend break. Wherever you are watching and listening, Sportsnet 590 The Fan, Sportsnet's YouTube channel, Sportsnet Now, iTunes, Spotify, Nick Kiprios, Derek Brandeo jen rolnick sammy mckee and a man who's willing to make a complete spectacle out of himself for the next two hours justin born i was gonna say i didn't turn the attention to you go go, man, you still sound like you had the plague. You feeling better yet? I am feeling a little better.

But yes, I did get glasses. Turns out, so I went to an optometrist and they were like, turns out you can't see. And I said, what do we do about that? And here we are. So how badly can't you see? I can see close. I can read, which is nice. Can't see far for anything.

So I don't know, like minus one. I don't know how to do optometrist talk, both eyes. I think I'm at 350, I think, for... Are you really? Yeah. What's funny, because you do the nose tip reading sometimes. I do. Because I cannot read with my contacts in.

Do you got the giant font on your phone? Not quite then. That's like... My mother-in-law your phone? Not quite then. That's like... My mother-in-law, it's like one word. That's admission of guilt. You might as well just go to Florida and pack it in. Pick a bullet up. I'm a dinosaur.

You know, it's... I'm just watching you wearing your glasses and it reminds me of the movie Major League. Do you remember that movie? Charlie Sheen? Of course. Yes. And who played Willie Mays

Hayes? Oh my god. I forget. Wesley Snipes. Wesley Snipes. So there's this scene where Charlie Sheen, a great pitcher in the movie, needs glasses. So they're fitting him in the locker

room and then there's that old crusty manager lou brown who says son the most important thing is that you can see correctly and then well sleep wesley sleep's character goes uh it ain't that important when he sees his glasses so you know you know, you in your glasses, I'm kind of thinking to myself, maybe it's not that important you see. I'm a fellow glasses wearer. I got a little choked up being in glasses.

It's so hard being glasses wearer. Listen, the first few days after you get glasses are euphoric. Yeah. What a trip. I am way more blind than you. Like when Iphoric. Yeah. Like, it truly is euphoric. I am way more blind than you. Like, when I went and got my eyes checked,

I think maybe 2016 or 2017 around there. It's a whole new world. I went in there, and the guy, they did the glasses for me that night because they're like, it's an emergency. He's like, you drove here? He's like, you drove here? He's like, you're blind, man. Like, you can't see anything.

And all of a sudden, it's 4KK and you're like, you've all been seeing this the whole time? Yes. The best thing in the world that you're going to be blown away by is the next time you play golf. Yeah, I can't see my ball. The first golf round I played after getting glasses was legitimately the greatest thing in the world. And playing hockey again, I was like, oh my God, I can see.

I'm going to do the contacts thing. Well, we got a terrific show for wherever you are, with eyesight or just listening. Part of it is I like them, right? We've got All-Star Weekend in review. We'll talk about next year's All-Star game, where I think the Toronto Star described it as the world's worst-kept secret.

Yeah, that's exciting. Toronto. We've got Beau Horvat talk about a new eight-year contract and the reaction out of Lou Lamarillo. We have Dave Nones coming up in about 15 minutes, former general manager of the Leafs, Eric Francis, in about 40 minutes. And then Kevin Kurz will talk Bo Horvat and the New York Islanders and what this contract means to the New York Islanders.

In saying that, we will start off with the spectacle of the NHL All-Star Weekend. And I want you to know that, and I mean this sincerely, that I don't want to sit here and bash it for the next 10 minutes. No, people enjoyed it. I want a respectful conversation on the things that we liked, what we didn't like, maybe improvements. But certainly, you know, from the sense of social media,

it probably didn't go as well as, you know, you would have liked from the league. But certainly something that we can at least start with a mature conversation now. I was battling the flu. I like that you're warning me right now. This is going to be a mature conversation. I just, it's just not cool for me to sit here and especially when you went through some of the things

that it's been said about and that it's it's an easy thing to do is just make fun and bash here for the next little while i don't want to do that that's not cool to me there's people who create content you know the show is content to rewrite articles it's hard to create things it's real easy to tear them down so people put a lot of time and effort into creating that all-star game. We haven't had them because of the pandemic and all that. So there was a lot of bright side. A lot of kids loved it. Tell me when we're done doing this part of it. Yeah.

And I can talk about it. Well, yeah. Okay. So, I mean, as we stipulated last week that it isn't built for guys like us. Right. isn't built for guys like us right uh the only question is is did did they go a little bit too far on on on creating what they think is inevitably uh towards a a younger generation whether it is trying to create you uh twitter moments or or Instagram moments and did the league kind of take

their eye off the ball a little bit this weekend? I don't know if there's a right answer necessarily, but here's what I do know is I would like to see the events. Let's go. Like I couldn't, you know, turn on with my son at seven o'clock all-star competition.

Wait to see this. It's so cool. Greatest players in the world. We're 22 minutes in, and they're still on introductions and pyrotechnics. Someone's going to skate a lap. Can we just? I want to watch the event. Show me the guys take the shot. Show me the guys. Was it on for three hours?

Yeah, it was. Sammy, was the length a concern for you? Because you said last week that you were a fan of it. Yes. Was the length of it a concern? Yeah, it was, I mean, it wasn't that much of a concern as I was sitting in a bar hammering Guinnesses and not really thinking about it and being too in deep in it.

But I will say that there was things to me that just, it seemed way overly things to me that just it seemed way overly complicated to me. Like all the stuff that they're doing, like I don't know if you guys caught any of the HL All-Stars stuff. Imagine if we did. I know it was on last night, so I flicked.

Yeah. And it was just much more what I remember when I was younger. Doesn't make it better. It was cleaner. No, yeah, exactly. Like, they're not, like, overthinking everything. They're just, they have, like, a goalie competition where there's two guys shooting on them,

they got to make the saves. It's like, there's a guy doing a breakaway. They got a guy shooting the targets. It's just, to me, you just got to keep it simple, stupid. Like, it's way overly complicated. Like, the one board I saw them put up there for one of the the rules like this is a skills comp it's not like uh you know you're not reading you know the rules and regulations on like an apple product here it's like can i get

can i just know it does anyway yes it's almost for me watching it this weekend and i tend not to watch it i tend to be like sammy yeah but i've been battling yeah so you were on the couch i'm on the couch all weekend bad news nhl he was paying attention i was paying attention yeah and i watch it and it's as if the league or sports net or espn are there everybody's trying to please everyone yeah and you end up pleasing no one. Yeah. That's what it felt like to me. Yeah.

So just for instance, you know, the skills competition. And there were a couple that are traditional. Mm-hmm. The skating, the shots on the targets. Do we miss with the skating a race, by the way? For me, I miss some element of that. Yes, yes. You know, send two guys at once.

I miss that element for sure. But, you know, the issue now is you can't get guys to do it. Listen, we know who the fastest guy in the league is for one lap. He was in Florida. Yeah. Doesn't want to do it so what's the nba with the dunk contest they end up putting in kind of you know don't call them scrubs but not not the top guys but but they're still even the top guys

uh you know in i know uh uh they still had very fast guys, and Caroline is... Sveshnikov. Sveshnikov won it at 13-plus, which is nothing to sneeze at, right? But is there a letdown or drop-off when you want to go and see Conor McDavid do it? For sure.

Yeah, that's what I think everyone wants to see. I don't know, it's hard. It's a weird event because you can't really not try in it you know what i mean like you like that should be the one where you're getting a great effort from everyone so yes it is work you know when you ask a guy to go in it's different yes then the 10 second of the you know accuracy shooting or the you know whatever else it's not Which brings me to my next topic of conversation is when the players pick and choose when they want to try. So it's not an issue with hitting the targets and it's not an issue with the slap shot.

But once we saw whatever version they had of a breakaway on the goalies, we saw them probably at 30 or 40%. I think the goalies don't want to get embarrassed. The players want to do something trickshotty cool. Tons of opinion out there on Sarah Nurse going in on Shusterkin. And I'm not going to sit here and tell you whether or not he tried or not, but I'm going to go beyond that. I'm going to ask you if the NHL put Shusterkin

in a very tough position of having to decide for himself whether or not he will try or not because we know the women being involved in nhl all-star the one mandate is to support them and help promote them so you tell me if shisterkin shuts her down how is that helping both causes i don't know i think you can argue it's kind of a, you can't lose. Like if he did, would anyone be like, he's the greatest,

one of the three best goalies in the world. They did kind of lose a little bit because there's a lot of people that said like he didn't try. So again, does that help Sarah? Does it help women's hockey? If a large majority of your audience feel like he didn't try? I don't know.

I think the criticism here would be just overthinking it. To me, I agree. It's not a skills contest in the sense of it's a test of ability. It's a showcase almost of people. As long as we're there and everybody can be there. Yeah. But there's a lot of people that said like that they weren't happy for variety of reasons.

One of them is the lack of intensity Friday night. Yeah. And obviously the, the length of it. Yeah. The, I honestly think Kipper, what you're saying there

about say i just think it put her in a bad spot where she was kind of embarrassed that he didn't try where it's like she's like one of the best women's hockey players and he she goes in on him and then you're right with sestrick and being like you know should i try what's the it's just to me it was a weird dynamic and i just wish i think i vote i bet they both wish that he just had a tried and stopped her. Because then it's just like, well, you know, you put me out there and I play goalie and the whole thing. And then he's the bad guy for, you know. I don't think he's, I don't think, honestly don't think he's a bad guy.

I just think, I don't think people are saying that. I just don't think it's a good look for anybody involved. It's a weird scenario. And that was talked about a lot. Like that, it's a big conversation amongst a lot of my friends. Like that was a conversation last night at hockey. Like, it's a thing that people were talking about. Yeah, no question.

Hmm. Like, I just, I thought I would have much rather of him gone out there and made, like, a great save when she tried to do, like, he just was, anyways, I don't need to get too bogged down in it. I don't think it's that big a deal. Yeah. But it was a bad look, and I agree with Kipper on that. Well-executed move.

For sure. The other thing, again, when I say that you're just trying to please so many people is you know, once the event left the arena and went to tape segments on either the beach with the shooting of the surf

boards. I thought that was a cool event. Honest to God, I didn't mind it at all. I wanted to do it. The golf and the surfboard. No, not the golf. I like the golf, too. I like the golf. Really?

I thought the golf and surfboard were the two by far best parts. The surfboard thing I thought was cool. Listen, my first thought is how would I have handled that? Yeah. I'd like to take a wrist shot and see how close I can get it to a stick. I thought a couple of the guys were terrible. A couple of guys just heaving them up there. But, you know, under different circumstances,

you know, it was entertaining, but do you run the risk of leaving 18,000 people in the building just watching a monitor? Is that what they did? They just showed them the jumbotron for them? And it's just, to Sammy's point... I don't think that'll work work here i don't think people want to do that at scholarship bank next year and there's nothing going on except you're trying to get people to watch the monitor up there the score clock so i i don't know if that works no it's interesting you know what are they gonna do here in toronto for something like that they're gonna

have the guys do the edge walk on the CN Tower? Have goalies make love saves all hooked up to the top of the CN Tower? They can't leave. If I'm at the All-Star game and I'm a Floridian and they're going to a Jumbotron, I'm out of there. Immediately. Yeah. It's hard. I would immediately leave.

So. I thought the actual games. Was good. Was enjoyable. Agreed. Listen, when you watch compared to the skills contest, which is backwards,

when you watch Mitch Marner and Nick Suzuki have a given goal like that, it's, it's, it's, it's a hockey play. I'll be it with three guys. Crosby and Ovi hooked up a couple of times, by the way,

I, as soon as I heard Dylan Larkin say like the highlight of his weekend was getting to play with Mitch Marner, me and like a million other people who want the Leafs to have success. We're like, bring me Dylan Larkin say, like, the highlight of his weekend was getting to play with Mitch Marner, me and, like, a million other people who want the Leafs to have success were like, bring me Dylan Larkin. Oh, Lord. Isn't he UFA at the end of this year or something? It's like, does he want to come partner up with old Mitchie? He's welcome.

I thought Mitch looked really weird with the skates. Terrible skates. It's amazing. It's amazing to me how much different your look is if your skate blades are black versus white because the skates were just like this sure they had some writing on them or whatever but if they were just white skate blades they would have looked like normal wheels the black skate it's the it was the weirdest look that stuff doesn't bother me anymore in terms of Mitch doing the Miami Vice or... I thought that was so cheesy too.

Listen, it is. But it's... The Happy Gilmore, it's like, what are we doing here? I know, I know. Happy Gilmore thing I didn't get. You're not wrong. I'll be honest. You're not wrong.

But it's already kind of a mailed in thing in terms of intensity and focus and trying really hard. Yeah. So I actually give the guys credit for trying. They care enough to kind of be willing to put themselves out there like that. And I think they should get full credit for it. I really do. For sure.

For sure. They're good for the league. You get all dressed up. You're wearing this white suit on ice. You're flying down there. And then you just flip or one on the long go make a move. you're an nhler like do something cool but that's where it gets kind of tricky for them because now it's a plane it's called the skills competition and that is the least skilled thing you'll ever see mitch marner do in his life yeah and it didn't help either when

luongo on the bench said well you know m Mitch didn't do what he was supposed to do. Like, that's... Is it called K-fabbing? It's just, it's not helpful. Yeah. When you're starting to tell people that you're now choreographing everything in a skills competition. Like, how much would you like for them to put three pucks on the blue line

and have Mitch Marner take three breakaways on Shostak or whoever goes in picks one up goes and picks one up goes and picks one up show me three breakaways best on best done you know so thrilling and then next guy let me know you get to go on to our conversation on on toronto like the stuff that you try to pull off and for you can't bring up to this audience no not bring that weakness up here right no real fans we care too much you guys have heard me in previous shows has to go retro want to go back create the same all-star weekend you had in 1999 if i'm not mistaken it was a year 2000 or how about then everyone has to use wood sticks too? Throwback.

How about just East versus West? You know, so I've done a lot of thinking on this, and I think you're right. I think that's the best way in terms of like dividing it up because I like seeing the players with the guys they compete against. Like it's really fun to see Larkin and Mitch and Suzuki and Mitch, and it's fun to see Crosby and Ovi. So you don want to give that up right like I think that that has appeal I'll tell you another way you fix the skills competition if you're if you're willing to blow your brains out

and Gary talked about this thing not being a moneymaker but but an investment into your brand, then go all in. If you're willing to give the winning team a million dollars to try hard the last five, seven minutes, and let me give you the mentality of that million dollars, okay? The first game absolutely sucks, right, at 3 o'clock. Yes. You know it sucks, and I'm going to tell you why it sucks, because? At 3 o'clock. Yes. You know it sucks. And I'm going to tell you why it sucks.

Because there's certain guys in it going, if we lose this first game, I'm on my chartered plane at 4.30. Yeah. And I'm home by 6. Yeah. Do you see guys don't stay the night? Are you kidding me? They're out of there.

They can't get out of there fast enough. We got Friday night. You're out of there. But once you're into that 4.30 game. You're there for the night anyway. And you're there anyways. Now you're getting into a window of the last five or seven minutes where it's like if I just jack this up a little bit,

I'm taking home 60 grand yeah well you know what i'm here like i'll give my 60 grand to my dad my mom yeah yeah i'll take the 60 grand right have the same mentality for the skills competition real money real money yeah uh fastest skater throw up a hundred grand yeah i guarantee you yeah if if connor mcdavid really thinks about it and you take away make 12 all year you can go make a quick hundred five yeah give it to federal tax provincial tax give it to escrow and you're down to about four million four and a half million i'll gladly take a hundred grand yeah i'll take my 50 after taxes but listen i i do that lap i do that lap every day in practice i can't do one

more for 50 another 50 grand right you start putting money into all these uh individual uh competitions you're gonna get a better reaction you know what's weird for me is the shooting competition like the accuracy shooting you got you know you you eliminate people and they go up against each other but it's like mcdavid took four pucks and hit him on nine seconds he's the winner to me yeah that's fast you win you know i don't we have dave all right let's welcome in dave known as former general manager of the leafs uh dave we're solving all the uh the the issues with the nhl all-star weekend uh you got any uh got advice for them or are you good i'm good you're not going to see many changes in that in that event that's as much as people you know want it to to go back to the early 80s and a little bit more competitive

in terms of a game it's not what it is anymore. I think you just have to enjoy it for what it is, which is it's a good skills competition and you recognize players that are having exceptional seasons. I think that's what I take out of it. So the horse is out of the barn. You're not going to get them back trying a little harder. There's just no way. I don't think there's a way.

No, I think it's too much on the line for them during the regular season after that game is over. There's too much money involved in their careers. So I just think that it is what it is right now. You still get to see some exceptional skill, some of these players, but you're not going to have a you know a high contact hard hard game again i think that's that's not going to happen so the actual all-star game itself if you can't coax more effort out of it do you think the

the nhl is getting their value out of the fans enjoy it the way we used to you've seen leagues like the nfl scrap the Pro Bowl straight away. Do you think the NHL is doing fine just kind of having to be what it is there? Yeah, I think so. I think the market that it's in is usually always excited. I think that Toronto is going to do a good job of it when it comes back there again next year. I think that the market that it's held in always takes it seriously,

and it is good for those markets. I think Florida was happy that they had it. I think it drew a lot of attention in that marketplace. But I think that with the NFL dropping it, really football without any contact really isn't fun to watch, and there isn't a lot of skill competitions you can put together from a football standpoint.

I still think that the NHL players are able to showcase their skills, whether it's the night before the game or not. I still think that is enjoyable for the fan base. How about your experience when you were part of a management team in terms of players going or not going or wanting to go or not wanting to go or even teams not wanting certain players to go?

Do you think, I know in the last few years it got challenging for some of you guys, but is that alleviated with the sunny spots and the beaches? I think it's definitely helped. And you can bring your family and recharge the batteries as well as play in the game. I always wanted any players that we had to go if they were invited. Barring some nagging injuries, I thought it was important that if they were recognized and they were selected, that they should go and represent the team. Do you think Toronto will have any problem minus 30 in February?

I don't think so. I think anything can go in Toronto, regardless of the weather. I think the fan base there will be pretty wired in, and I know they'll do a good job. The people that run events in in toronto i think are second to none so i think it'll be an exceptional event should be good we're looking forward to it here in toronto and we'll keep the focus there i want to get your thoughts on their walk up to the trade deadline under a month now and frankly kipper and i have been talking about trades for two months

because we've kind of know where they're going to finish this season um how would they be approaching it now it feels like there's 40 players available out there, more so than most trade deadlines. What is the process of feeling out what you might want to do down the road with other general managers? Well, I think they're going to have to determine, all the teams that are buyers, they're going to have to determine what they actually need.

And then they're going to go about trying to contact all the teams that you believe are sellers that's starting to you know take place right now it's it's pretty uh becoming apparent which teams are going to be selling uh there are some pretty good players available um and for that reason i think that the asking price is going to be fairly high uh and you might not see many more big deals like the Horvat deal until you get really close to the deadline. Dave, I wrote an article a week and a half ago on the Leaf goaltending situation, and I kind of presented three scenarios.

One, they just get a little bit of reinforcement, or they go actually major and try to do something with the likes of Demko's name being out there or you know UC Soros potentially being available if Nashville falls out of a playoff run or doing nothing at all my question isn't so far more more on the leaf specific but in general in your experience in past, when you've thought about adding a goaltender, how different is it in your approach to getting one than it would be a skater, a forward, a defenseman?

Well, I think you have to really measure what type of goaltender you're getting. Any deal that I did or a player selected, I've selected Corey Schneider in the first round and I traded for Roberto Longo. And I traded for a couple other goalies that didn't work out at the deadline. So I think you have to be really clear

as to where that player fits, where it fits in the room. Is he clearly an upgrade? If you could upgrade any position, including the goaltending position, I think it's incumbent upon a manager to do it. It's generally hard to do. You don't see many starting goaltenders moved at the deadline.

It's pretty rare. I can't even think of one in the last 10 years that's moved at the deadline. Dave, let's say the Leafs are able to get their hands on a big fish and it can be either a forward or a D. Let's say it's Chikrin and let's say it's Timo Meier. What do you do if you say the Leafs are able to get their hands on a big fish, and it can be either a forward or a D. Let's say it's Chikrin, and let's say it's Timo Meier. What do you do if you're the Leafs? Oh, I still think you add a defenseman. You know, the Leafs have done a better job than I think people give them credit for

playing good team defense. Their goals against are more than just respectable. They're quite good. So I think you have to give them credit for how they're playing. You want to have a long run deep into the play. You have to have seven or eight quality defense. You're not going to get by with five or almost run. I think if they could add, you know, Jake Muzzin, when he was healthy, that type of a player back onto that back end,

I think it would help him dramatically. Dave, we assume that Kyle Dubas is in a position to want to upgrade with a big piece. How frustrating is it for Kyle or the Leafs now to know that everybody wants your top prospect in Matthew Nyes? And it's still undetermined whether or not Kyle's got him out there or not, if he's untouchable or isn't. But how do you work around that if you're not willing to give him up or you need to wait to the last minute to decide how badly you want to make a trade?

Yeah, I think it's more the latter. I think they have to wait and see where they're at, where they're at health-wise. And if they can get around the deadline fairly healthy and playing well, I think there'll be more of an interest of wheeling and dealing to try to add some pieces. I know that the club has not passed the first rounds for a long time since I was there. And there's a lot of pressure to do that but you can only expend so many assets

before you start going backwards. With that said, the window is open. Even though they have a one-around, the window is open in Toronto. It's a very good hockey team and I think that has to be recognized as well. I mean, it's not like they're adding a piece just to get in.

If they add a piece, it would be to try to win. If you knew that piece was out there to try to win, would you give up Matthew Nyes? I like Matthew Nyes a lot. But if you're in a position where you actually have a chance to win and you're adding an exceptional player, I think you have to consider it. No question about it.

I didn't ask you if you considered it uh would you do it come on dave give it to us i'm gonna give you the lawyer give you the lawyer's answer it depends it depends on how i'm how i'm playing how the team is playing if we're clearly rolling and we think that we can beat the boston bruins the way they're playing with one good ad then i think I think he would do it. If you're not, if you're just playing okay, if you're banged up, then I think you go in a different direction, and I'd rather expend draft picks than a player that I clearly know

is going to be a pretty good right-winger on my team. You're in a unique position, I think, given your experience, to evaluate new contracts that get signed. Did you have any takeaways from Horvat getting 8x8.5? Well, he picked a pretty good year to have a career year. I think it is what it is. He's going to get that money, whether it was on the island or in free agency. So I think Lou, he categorized it the right way.

It's too much money and it's too long. But that's what it would take to get that player signed. I think that it shows that the Islanders really need to make the postseason. And, you know, they have their own reasons to do it, but, you know, they locked up a pretty good player, but they paid him a lot of money. And there's very little wiggle room now in terms of, you know, cash left to make any further improvements to that team.

But he's a very good player. He's having an excellent year. And by all accounts, it's the quality, quality guy that's only going to help the character to that team. But he's a very good player. He's having an excellent year. And by all accounts, it's the quality, quality guy that's only going to help the character of that room. I know you briefly touched on this, but in the past, would a deal like this open up the floodgates for teams to respond? And is that not the case because of the flat salary cap?

Yeah, I think it is. Lou got out in front of it he clearly wanted to do this they're not in the playoffs now he feels like he needs the player longer than just the you know post deadline and he stepped up and paid you know you can argue if you pay too much or if you pay too little um but um you know he stepped up and paid the price that they were asking i don't think a lot of teams are willing to do that yet i do think that they're you know that trade definitely uh made more clubs pick up the phone and start calling around to see what what may or may not be available to them between now and the deadline well i feel like we're seeing it shift a little bit have do you have any sense of that, that deals are getting done earlier

rather than day of all the time? Well, it really comes down to money in a lot of cases. You know, not a lot of teams have a lot of cap space. I don't know how many are in LTIR now, but it's over half. A bunch of other ones have less than a million dollars of cap space. So unless there's some contracts moving both ways or salary retention, I still think it's going to go, you know, by and large, maybe not down to the last day or the last hour,

but we're going to get within three or four days, I think, before you see a lot more big deals take place. One more for me, Dave, and that is we all know that Kyle Dubas, it's been well reported, that is in the last year of his deal, he did not get an extension. Does this play out in any way, shape, or form? In your managerial days, you hardly saw this, whether it was a general manager or even a

bruce budrow situation where we just saw how that played out in vancouver the tendency is for teams to give these guys at least one extra year that's not happening anymore is this going to be a new trend moving forward i think it really depends on you know on ownership and relationship with the manager. I know Kyle is very well liked in Toronto by ownership and respected by the people there. At the end of the day, it's a performance-based business. I think if they can pull some strings here, make a deal, and get past the first round, I think that he'll get extended.

I think he's done a very good job, by and large, and a lot of questions were asked about some of the things he's done. But I think if you look at them closely, he's put together, along with his staff there, he's put together a team that is one of the best teams in the league, and I don't think you can do much better than that. Well, you can. You can take that team and win in the playoffs,

and that's basically it, right? You can't guarantee that. You can't guarantee that. My point is I think he's put that team to a position where they are a contender. Yeah. And that's what I say. Last year, I think we all thought Colorado was the best team, but they still had to go out and do it and win it wasn't you know it

wasn't handed to him just because he had a good team i think he's put together a pretty good team there and you know i hope to get past the first round and be good for the city and be good for the game let's go selfish it'd be good for our show yeah that's what really matters hey dave i think about that i think about that all the time. Now that you're almost a regular on it, you should, for sure. Hey, Dave, really appreciate your time, man. Thanks for doing this. All right, take care of yourself, Dave.

Dave Nolnes, former general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yeah, listen, I mean, we all felt this way. I mean, you go back and listen to our early shows. We were talking about a team that should contend for the Atlantic or if not the President's Trophy for best team in the regular season. We knew they had that capabilities, but yet I think the Leaf ownership or the board at MLSE have spoken volumes that you're not getting an extension until we see that regular season transition to the playoffs and when you're dubious you're in that point you can totally see where they're coming from like you understand that you're not paid to take a team to the playoffs

you're supposed to do better than that so i i can understand if there is some sort of mutual understanding the way that would go still be frustrating having all this success and being like not good enough huh okay go hire the guys running you know one of the 16 teams nowhere near the playoffs sammy yeah i have worries about that i i do i really stuck in the middle and wanting results versus fear of the unknown to me. As a Leaf fan, you've watched the Leafs be really good. The ease with which they beat good teams right now is easy to take for granted. Except for the Bruins.

Right. They didn't beat them very well. Well, the great teams are an issue. Yes. The good teams, yes. The other side of it being like searching for a new person and having them it be a fresh set of eyes like that is very fascinating to me but there's a lot of fear in that as well to me i get where i'm coming from yeah it's very uh

relationshipy actually for sure when in your grass isn't always grass isn't always greener, fellas. I did agree with Dave Nones' answer on Matthew Nye's, is that that's your ace card, and you cannot show it until the very end. You have to. So you try to pull off some trades. You use your other first rounders in the system. Roney and Topey and all those guys. Who's the junior kid in Kamloops?

Fraser Minton. Yeah. What a year he's had. He's having a great year. Lighten it up. He's a centerman. People are speaking volumes about his 200-foot game. Throw that guy out there before Matthew Nyes.

Yeah. So try to pull off a trade without Matthew Nyes, and then you got to make a career decision, if you're Kyle Dubas, at the 11th hour, whether or not to throw in Nyes to try to get this team over the hump. Let me just say, all of our producers and big wigs up here, they're like, just wait until the day of the deadline for us, please.

I think it's inevitable. For our six-hour extravaganza. By the way, how about having a 3 p.m. show for the boys? How thrilling is that? To give up nines? Yeah. You wouldn't do it unless it's a very good one. I wouldn't do it unless my back's completely against the wall.

Yeah. All I can say is. Which means good for sportsnet and tsn yeah all i can say is that on the show that kicks off our week with no leafs games let me say march 3rd that sounds pretty sexy boys that's gonna be a good content week really excited i imagine they'll have made a couple trades by then. I expect there to be three different players in the Leafs lineup. March 3rd. March 4th. Oh. Than there are right now.

Kipper, you? Over or under? Over. Over three new players? Oh, I'm sorry, here? Yeah, for the Leafs. I think the Leafs will have three new players. A forward, a D-man, and then one of the other other two of one of the other no under under three i think two and it'll be like

bobby mcmahon one of them i think two uh like it's just it's really hard uh tell me uh yeah three three hot quality two two quality and one average three qualities three uh no low average two legit players top six or top four d two legit i don't know if they yeah possibly one of each and then i think it's too hard to juggle uh you know caps right now they could just add $3 million. They could just add $3 million right now without doing anything with retention. And it's going to add more. Yeah.

And retention and moving money out and all those other things. The closer you get to the cap without making a trade, the more money you'll have. To the deadline. To the deadline, yes. Yeah, yeah. So that's the idea, I think. They're going to be able to work some stuff. I don't know.

I would say last year, the list of things that Kyle Dubas needed, So that's the idea. They're going to be able to work some stuff. I don't know. I would say last year, the list of things that Kyle Dubas needed, he went out and got them all. Now, it didn't work, but he did want to go out and check the boxes of their needs. So I think he's aware they need one up front and up back that make a difference. And it's not poor Pontus Holmberg having to play the All-Star break games with the Marlies. How about sending Pontus play the All-Star break games with the Marlies.

How about sending Pontus to the All-Star to play for the Marlies while everyone else gets a break? Guy's career's in flux. He's up. He's down. He's hanging on by a thread. No break. I couldn't believe him. I was there on Saturday.

I saw him in the line. I was like, what the hell? I'm a huge fan. But like, hey, Pontus, get down there and keep your mouth shut and just play. Wow. Wow. I would have given the guy a break. Where? Where? Where does he earn the right? Get does he play 200 games in the nhl is he a

proven guy you're young come on get down there he went into the guys and into the years of nobody and now we're like this guy push for pontus come on all stars don't need to play the hl it's a it's a smart move by the Leafs. It is. God, he looked good down there. Keep him hungry. Player. You haven't proven Jack.

Okay. Well, he has a little bit, but I'm not going to tell him that. I'm pretty sure he's going to get offer sheeted. Listen, I like him. Me too. But you don't have to walk around like you're, you know, King Kong yet. Keep them humble. That's fair.

I can dig it. Yeah, go down to the Marlies and play well. Loser. And turn into a leader down there. You look good. Tell the boys what it takes to play in the NHL. Keith Petruzzelli did not. All right, let's go to break.

Yeah. Okay. Bag of old tending go to break. Yeah, okay. Bagel attending, eh? Oh, just remarkably bad. Okay, well, he's not the answer then. Joe Wall got the all-star break. Okay, let's take a quick break. Eric Francis, senior analyst with Sportsnet, is going to come by.

We'll talk about the Flames and their schedule against the New York Rangers at MSG. That and more after the break. You're watching and listening to Real Kipper and Born. Breaking down the top stories in hockey and Elliott Friedman every day. The Jeff Merrick Show. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Nick Kiprios, Justin Borden, Sammy McKee

Wait on Eric Francis Talk Calgary Flames, talk out West Kadri, a nice showing Yeah, finals of the accuracy shooting Not bad Well, the most important thing is he Knocked off Connor McDavid Yes, I mean Battle of Alberta Big victory for the Flames Most important thing is he knocked off Connor McDavid. Yes.

I mean, Battle of Alberta, big victory for the Flames. I think Eric's got an opinion on All-Star weekend. I sure hope so. I bet he does. I bet he does. At least not until Friday. That's tough. Columbus.

Yeah, that's tough too. Get back- to back cbj here out of the gates it does uh present itself an opportunity for the leafs to kind of get on a roll and start banking some points you think that's hard though to sell to the guys they're going on vacation to the bahamas or wherever they are and it's's like, come back, we need you fired up for the worst team in the league. It starts to getting down to just being a pro about it. Yeah. You know, and just having that mindset. When do you think they would come back?

Like the team to actually like prepare and practice? I would think by Wednesday, everybody's back. I'll tell you the danger now, especially coming back, is if you're not on a charter, and we assume most of them are, but airports and customs are a challenge now. Just in terms of trying to get back from where you are? Yeah, trying to get back. Also picking up whatever from travel?

There's a lot of people that are just getting back from Florida to Toronto on a flight because their flight got canceled yesterday. Yeah. With no chance to be rescheduled. They had to wait the next day. Had to go back to Fort Lauderdale and find their hotels for another 800 bucks a night. You're coming back early unless you're Austin Matthews. Okay, let's welcome in Eric Francis, senior columnist

and doing a terrific job on Sportsnet covering the Calgary Flames. Eric, how are you, pal? I'm great, boys. How are you? I'm in New York, so it's all good. You, Kipper, you know this city well. This is one of the great cities of the world. Yes.

Dale Hunter, when I first played with the Washington Capitals on our first visit, his piece of advice was, boys, don't take a bite out of the Big Apple because it'll bite you back. And that's all I remembered. That's it, eh? That was it. That was it. And Ike Corvo, our first rounder, was mugged,

and they stole his overcoat. That's the other thing I remembered about New York City. No way. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah, that's it. Those are the two things that warned me against New York. Anyways, thanks for joining us.

You know, we get the league going again. We get Calgary going again. Just coming off the All-Star weekend. Got anything you liked, you didn't like? Constructive criticism in terms of maybe tweaking it, moving forward, just get your thoughts. We have a couple of storylines, you know, coming out of the break in Calgary,

they got Chris Tanev back, which is huge. They've won twice this year in nine games without Chris Tanev in the lineup. Like he's by far their most important player outside of their goaltending. And then the goaltender tonight will be Markstrom. That's a tweak that people have been debating in Calgary forever. Dan Vladar is on a 13-game point streak, ties a franchise record,

and yet this coach continues to just see Markstrom as the number one starter. There's no 1A, 1B. It's just Markstrom for 60-70% of the time. And then the other thing is Jacob Pelche is in the lineup tonight. And in this city, we haven't had a lot of great young

prospects come up through the ranks over the years. They either make the jump right away like a guy like Goudreau or Kachuk, or they just sit in the minors and never make it. And so they've got this – Calci is a first-round draft pick. He's going to play in the top six tonight, and people are just really excited about this guy.

He played on the World Junior Team for Canada, and just a real character kid. And everyone in this city is clamoring for this guy to get a real good shot. He's going to play top six now with Huberdeau and Caudre, and that's really exciting for people in Calgary. He's going to play top six now with Huberto and Caudry, and that's really exciting for people in Calgary. But, you know, these are little minutiae items I'm giving you. I know people in Toronto don't care about any of that stuff,

but that's kind of the way this Calgary Flames team has been this year. Very beige, very nondescript, boring hockey team that's failed in terms of their expectations. So I still think there's optimism, but so far it's been a lot of disappointment in Calgary. Yeah, you mentioned that there's still optimism, and I, like a lot of people, see this roster and think there's a lot more there. I mean, they're only a plus-five goal differential.

They're on the outside of playoffs looking in right now. What are you expecting for the final 32 games from this team? I still dig their playoff team i just have a hard time looking at the talent the depth and the goaltending and the experience of the middle and you know it's just not all come together at once and that's the problem with any sort of consistency and i just think with this coach um you know they're always prepared they always start well here in Calgary every night. I just think that it's just too good to not make the playoffs. Ask me if I think they can make any noise in the

playoffs. That's a whole other question. And that's 30 games down the road anyway. But I think that they could turn this thing around. And I really think that the most important player moving forward is Huberto. If this guy can figure it out and be a difference maker again, then this team should make the playoffs no problem. If he continues to struggle to find his way like he has the first 50 games, then maybe it will be a lot more trouble than

I'm thinking. So, I just gotta wrap my head around the disappointment that you speak of when it comes to calgary flames season so far so not that people are given up by any stretch but if you look at the first what 50 games eric do people tend to look at uh uh the the lack of production from players first, or do they revisit Daryl Sutter and his ability to motivate or still be today's kind of coach? Is that where it's gotten yet, or is it just like

we're all keeping our powder dry until we see how this thing plays out? Yeah, there's been a lot more criticism of Sutter than last year when he walked on water here and, of course, was coach of the year. And expectations were low, and he turned everything around on a dime. This year, the criticism for Sutter is not that he can't coach anymore. I haven't heard those whispers or he's the problem. The criticism of Sutter is the way he's handled these youngsters, these Jacob Peltiers.

Again, I guess they're young or fringe players, and people in the city feel like he's incapable of giving a rookie a chance. If you're Darryl Sutter, you basically look at it and you go, look, if you're proven and if you've won a ring, I'll give you respect. Until you've won a ring or you've been in the league for 10 or 12 years as a leader, he rarely, rarely cuts you any slack or gives you much opportunity, and that's the real criticism you're hearing from a lot of people in this city. Like, give these kids a chance.

Expectations are what it's all about here in Calgary, guys. Like a year ago, like I said, they were playing with house money, and they went and won the division. I mean, no wonder he won coach of the year. People just thought it was the greatest thing that ever happened. This year, expectations have flipped it on its ear, and even though they lost gadroll and kachuk with the guys they brought back in the debate was can they win the division again well

they're not winning this division again they may not even make the playoffs that's a huge departure from the expectations that they walked into the season with so there is lots of chatter lots of criticism to be thrown around and that's a new thing for this team compared to last year. So Bradtree Living basically won the offseason, a lot of people thought, when he had people leaving and he managed to get back great assets. He's sitting here now going, boy, we can't miss playoffs after these two big moves, I'm sure.

Do you expect the team to be active in the weeks ahead? And if so, what would you expect to see? I don't. I mean, hey, if they go on a real, real run here between now and March 3rd, then I guess this GM is the kind of guy who would say, look, the team has spoken. They've merited me to make a couple big moves. But when I say big moves,

I don't think you're going to see anything of significance here. I mean, this team hasn't earned the right to have a tremendous augmentation in their roster. And plus, also, if there's a chance they're going to miss the playoffs, how as a GM do you justify throwing significant assets at grabbing someone of significance at the trade deadline for a rental or whatever the case may be? So I think he's going to take his cues from this team over the next couple of weeks, how they respond out of the break here. But I do think, assuming that they stay in this race and it's tight, I still think they'll go out and get a veteran defenseman,

like a Luke Shen or someone, you know, no one who's going to, you know, be a big, big name, but a guy who's been there, done that, and like I said with Sutter, just someone he could trust as a leader, high off the glass, just be a good, big name, but a guy who's been there, done that. And like I said, with Sutter, just someone he could trust as a leader, high off the glass, just be a good, solid defensive defenseman. I'd be shocked if they didn't add some defensive help for this team. Well, their trade deadline happened in the offseason, right? I mean, and Kadri signing. Like, Leaf fans are sitting there going, come on.

Like, what we wouldn't do for a major player like Kadri or McKenzie Wieger to be added. So, I mean, it would almost be an ambition of guilt that we haven't made the right moves if they did anything significant moving forward. Yeah, I mean, again, with the expectations this year, I think that the GM probably would have told you in a candid moment, you know, probably at the trade, we're going to have somebody of significance because we're going to take a run at this thing.

But that hasn't happened at all. There's been so much change here, and that's how the players and the general manager and the coach all talk about how this season has not gone the way they hoped it would. There was so much change that this is such a radically different team in their eyes that it's just taking time to find their way as a group. So adding more new faces probably is not the answer at this point in time given how hard they've had a time, how hard it's been for them to mesh together.

So everybody gets a little jazzed up about the trade deadline. I get it. But in Calgary, I don't think you can expect for it to be a significant player at all. I mean, even if they got a major injury, that would be even more reason why they wouldn't make a significant move. Eric, how do you handicap the Pacific then? Like the Flames are going to battle to get in. Seattle's in first.

You know, the Kings are chasing. Vegas has an injury to stone edmonton's climbing what are you looking at for the rest of pacific i'd be pretty surprised if edmonton didn't win this division i think you know they found their footing of late i guess the reason they've won they've had points in seven games in a row or something coming to the break but that's the oilers team we expected all year long to be challenging for the division. I still don't think Seattle's going to be in the playoffs. But, I mean, we've been saying that all year long.

And we said that same thing about Vegas for a couple years in a row where we just didn't think that they had it. And so I expect them to kind of peter out. Vegas has not been playing very well at blade at all. And that injury to Stone is a big deal for them for sure. So there's some suspects that I think they're going to start to see fall a little bit vegas seattle um and i think the flames are going to be a team that's going to you know not surge but but do better coming out of this break and then i think the others are going to just put their their foot to the pedal and uh the pedal to the floor and and i think they're going to win this division i'm not going to say going away but i i would I think they're going to win this division. I'm not going to say going away,

but I would think that they're going to win it with some points to spare. Tonight against the Rams, this is a big game in terms of at least, Eric, setting a tone for what the last 30 games could look like, especially for Markstrom. Every game is important in terms of setting a tone for Markstrom? Every game is important in terms of setting a tone for Markstrom. This guy

has just, he hasn't been awful, but you guys see the numbers there. He's not, his save percentage is not in the 900s. His goals against average is not what it was last year. This guy's really struggling with his confidence. Guys, I watch him in practice. He's breaking sticks over the net.

He's throwing his stick. Earlier this year year you heard him talk about oh he sucks at hockey and and again i guess give him credit for being honest and and and and not trying to mask it but but goalies are usually pretty good at masking that stuff because it's important that they do that um he's not been able to do that so there's a lot going on in his life, you know, on and off the ice that I think that it's really affected him. He's really struggled mentally with the game this year. The guy was the second-best goalie on the planet last year. I still think there's reason for optimism.

But if you took a poll out of 100 Flames fans, how many want Markstrom to start tonight, you might get 15% of the people who say yes. He's lost the faith of the people in this city, and that speaks more to the fickle nature of fans than it does his future hopes. He's going to return to form, but people in this city are like, why would you struggle through that when you've got Bladar,

who's the people's champion here in Calgary? Right. Well, Eric, just checking the fine print of my contract by law, I have to ask you about the trial in toronto maple leafs um they're coming out of a deadline here and sorry coming out of a break and heading towards a deadline where they're probably going to be active what do you make of the leafs this season and their chances of having things go differently in the postseason than past years i i hey i'm from toronto I've watched it like everybody else has and just can't believe, you know,

how unfortunate things have unfolded in the playoffs over the last while. I still feel like this is the year they finally break that cycle. I'm not saying they're going to win the cup. I'm not going to go there. But I would be just absolutely stunned if this team can't win in the first round. And I know it has to do with who they draw in the first round and all these other things. And we've been saying this a million years about these guys.

I just think it's a stronger, deeper team that's been through all that adversity. And again, those are all things that we've said a million times, both of them over the last handful of years. But from afar, my view is they're undoubtedly going to win at least one round probably two this year if you ask me but again it all it all depends who they match up with and as you guys know like it's so it's easy to be all optimistic for any team right now or pessimistic but 30 games is a lot of games still and so much can change you guys could get an injury in toronto in the last week or two a significant injury and that changes the outlook on everything especially if it's a goaltender so

i'm still optimistic it's a hell of a team in toronto and even if you're going to be pessimistic in toronto you always have to give credit for the incredible group that they've assembled and their numbers speak for themselves so far this year one more let's leave it on the battle of alberta regarding at least the the pacific division i think before the all-star break justin bourne my good buddy here said that uh he thinks the oilers may be in a position to start kind of running away with this thing uh you see it the same way yeah i do like i think they can win this division and uh you know it's unfortunate when you talk about the Battle of Alberta,

the schedulers and all their wisdom. There are no more games between Edmonton and Calgary this year. Their last one was December 27th. And that's a real shame because coming down the stretch, I do think these are two teams that, even though things haven't gone the way everyone expected this year, surely the schedule makers should have known that those two teams are going to be in the mix for those top three spots in the division.

And you want those matchups late in the season on ratings nights. So I don't know. I think Edmonton is going to be the team to beat in the Pacific, no question about it. As long as those two main horses stay healthy. And you know what? We always talk about the two big boys there. Zach Hyman, guys. And I know you know this in Toronto,

like underrated, like crazy, one of the most well-rounded guys in the league in terms of complimenting players. Like this guy, I know they miss him in Toronto. I know there's fans who probably were just so sad when they lost him. Stop. Sammy's crying right now. Our producer is crying right now.

You've got to stop, Eric, right now. I'm sorry, but it's obvious. He's a hell of a player. He's a hell of a player. I'm not shedding any new light on it for you guys. Well, listen, enjoy your stay in New York. Make sure when you go to your hotel

room, you put that extra latch on. Okay? Okay, good idea. Listen to this. This is for you. Okay. That's me taking a bite out of the big apple very nice eric francis senior columnist uh with sportsnet.ca uh does a terrific job covering uh the calgary flames uh Guys, I am shocked. When we spoke of this trade, the big one, Matthew Kachuk to Florida, how this was going to benefit both teams.

And it is shocking for me that we're talking about two teams that may not make the playoffs. Yeah. As a possibility. For sure. No, the Fl flames team i think you can argue that they're the biggest disappointment this year i mean i understand that they lost two pretty good players from last season but you know they brought in a couple of good ones too i mean

between cadre and huberdo and weger he expected things to go well so listen the pacific division is so tight like it's the only place in the NHL where you can climb quickly. They're, you know, tied with Colorado for the last wildcard spot, but they're at 57 points. The first place in the division, 63. You know, like, it's not, the season's not over for them. The one thing, and I've talked to a few people that have covered the Calgary Flames and watched them a lot closer than I have,

is that they're slow. Oh, really? Yeah. You know, it's like Toffoli is not lightning, and you think of their top guys. Yeah, I could see that. Not a fast group. You know, I think Sutter,

having the success that he had in Los Angeles, is probably okay with that, with having guys that are experienced, heavy, you know, veteran guys and not being the young, fast team that's making mistakes all over the rink. I bet that's his preference. We've got Kevin Kurz coming up to talk about Bo Horvat, the New York Islanders, how it's been well-received. But before, maybe we could just talk a little bit about Lou Lamorello's comments.

Sammy, do we have those? We do have them. Yeah. I found this clip by Lou Lamorello unlike Lou, to be honest with you. But let's just have a listen. All I can tell you is it's too long and it's too much money. So, I mean, you want the truth? No,

no, no. Well, that was going to lead into my next point. Next question. See, that, that,

that's unlike Lou to me. How so? Floored by that? Because Lou doesn't come out and give opinions. He's a very straight, factual guy. He doesn't lend towards any type of controversy. Let alone levity.

But, you know, okay, so when did levity come into Lou's shtick? I don't know. When did he become funny guy? When it was like, I'm going to make the media laugh here. That's so un-Lou. It is fairly un-Lou,

but I will say the contract is not un-Lou. This is a guy who gave the kovalchuk contract out you know he's not afraid to go big but i i shite his contract go back go back to kovalchuk's no no thought of i gave him too much money or it's too long i to me if i'm bo horvat listening to that i'm not getting off to a great start right now because you feel like you overpaid for me yeah i don't i don't like that i agree from beau horvat's perspective is i i'm i'm here i've made a major commitment to you and the first thing that you say to me is uh it i'm not worth it you know he it depends if beau's a sensitive guy or not because

if he's not you could see not because if he's not you could see the way that he's goofing around like the guy just spent a lot of money you know eight year deal for you and you could see bo being like ah but it's not like lou it's not like lou you know but for the record someone's gonna give me 68 million dollars they can say whatever they i know i i don't think it's a terrible contract like i i feel like it's almost like getting tavarez here for toronto where part of getting someone to come here over somewhere else is you pay a bit of a tax so you don't even get to investigate the market we're gonna give you an extra million bucks per year for that you know so you don't even get to see what else is out there just commit to us before you even go on another

date you're paid you pay tax for that and you know if he reverts to being 50 60 point bo horvat and you know by the time the cap you know four years from now is whatever it's a much smaller percentage i don't hate the deal but i'm with you lou that it's too much and too long should he be killed for saying so maybe a little you know you're an actual gm in that case bo is having a career year which he's gonna score 50 right i was shooting 21 right now vancouver again vancouver uh well aware that they did not see him in that same light that they probably see him in that 50 to 60 range or a second line third line scenario not a centerpiece and to your point he's got a shooting percentage right now that he's not a vet will never match moving forward at least you you don't think so and if he does everybody comes down to earth

like chris crider yeah what did he score last year 52 or something yeah with a off the charts shooting percentage he's gonna play the same hockey this year and score 35 austin 35 is good austin's shooting percentages come back to earth right yeah no it's uncommon but there's been a high sample size with matthew yes of course no no i'm not comparing them his down percentage is more the outlier than the high one i'm just saying that if it comes down to earth are people going to be okay with bo horvat maybe when you're scoring 26 goals i think if you have a you know a second line center who gets 30 goals and you know does he's a pro he's a a captain material guy, it's not that far of value to me for what he's worth.

So yeah, I don't think it's crippling. All right, we'll take a quick break. We got Kevin Kerr's New York Islanders beat writer for the athletic. He's going to come and give us the feel of Bo Horvat, the contract, and thoughts on Lou's comments as well. It's real Kipper and Bourne. More after the break.

Big opinions and in-depth conversations covering the Leafs, Jays, Raptors, and the NFL. The J.D. Bunkin Podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. You think Lou Lamorello is just warming up?

I think you've heard the last of his funny jokes. That's what I think. But yeah, I think they'll do something else. I think he's shown his cards uh on on what direction they're going yeah what direction they're going and how important the rest of the uh the season is okay let's welcome in kevin kurz does a terrific job covering the new york islanders for the athletic uh kevin thanks for joining us and just to kind of recap what we saw out of the contract, and we'll get to the contract for a second, but we are focusing on Lou's comments about the contract being too much money

and too much term. But, you know, Kevin, when I think of general managers or coaches or personalities out there that have this humor about them and can make the media laugh. Lou doesn't come to mind for me. Yeah, I would tend to agree. You know, I don't know if he said that because he was trying to get a laugh out of everyone or, you know, obviously there's some truth to that.

And he's probably just lamenting the fact that that's the cost of doing business these days where you want to lock up a very good player. Who's a pending unrestricted free agent for the longterm. So, you know, it is a long contract. It is an expensive contract. We'll see if, you know, in the coming. Oh boy. That's the sound point the worst sound in sports i'll call that boink sammy

get the cell towers figured out sammy no no i always blame sammy this is the producer's hardship. The insta-blame. So, he was just talking about Lou. I mean, that comment, and he's right. You don't really, like, I don't think Lou set out to make the media laugh on it. You know, you hit a certain age and you hear people just start saying the thing that they think. Okay, we got Kevin Kurz back. JT was just saying that, you know, you hit a certain age where you just stop caring about what you say sometimes. Is that where we are with Lou at this point?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, maybe we are. You know, it's a very unique situation, I think, for him and the organization, because they're in this brand new building, right? It's, they didn't have any playoff games in there last year. You don't want to go two years without any playoff games in this sparkling new arena. So, you know, to me, the trade just simply signifies that they're going to do everything they can to get in the playoffs.

And I heard you guys talking about a little bit before i mean i would think there's more moves to come because you know oh no bonk city usa we got double double boink it's it's the double double dunk is it double bonk bonk we got boink well i don't know what we're calling it we get double donked bonked by calling back here yeah you are yeah tell them to call on a landline do people really know what that is anymore i actually i was recently asked for that for an interview and they're like landlines only and i was like well then find another guest i wouldn't know where to find a land oh you don't have one not even have where would where do they, you don't have one? Not even have. Where do they exist? You don't have one? No. We have one. For just to collect spam calls on? No, you know what we have it for?

I'll tell you why we have a landline. Please do. To find our cell phone. You call your own phone to the landline? Yes. That's the majority of our calls now having a landline. I pay 20 bucks a month so I can find my cell phone finder my my

my phone uh cell in the couch i will say i have been i think when i lived in arizona the wireless and tv package was cheaper if you also got a landline so we had a landline literally today like i don't know i don't really get it but i've not've not... Just get bad calls on it. We've had... You know, we sold our house. We're in another place. I've had this landline for a year and a half. Do you know the number?

I barely remember the area code. Forget the number. I'm like, 416-647. I don't know. Yeah. Then I got to look at my phone to find it and then you end up with situations like getting cabin to move locations just stand by here okay this is the the bermuda triangle wasn't working out for him

all right we'll stand by but yes okay islanders so he's making the point about ubs arena you don't go two years without making the playoffs or having playoff games in there. Do you want to go six without making playoffs? If you trade away your firsts and your prospects, like there's not no risk here in adding Horvat, you know, they, they haven't had a first rounder for four years now.

It's going to be four years. Kevin, do I dare ask if you're here? Yeah, we'll try it again here. I don't know what's going on. I relocated to my hotel lobby here. Maybe it's a little better reception.

So hopefully this will work. No problem. So just pick up wherever you feel like you've left off regarding. Sure, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think to me that the trade was an indication that they're going to try to make the playoffs this year. And you look at the roster, where're about going to help their biggest need, which is just having a guy that can finish on chances and help the power play.

But, uh, I think they need more. You look at the roster. I think that you're, you're, you're probably short another forward. And they've been talking about trying to add another puck moving defenseman, um, since last off season. So you wonder if that's something they're looking at now too. Yeah. Devin Taves would be nice. Just thought I'd throw that out there. But, you know, it is interesting to see them kind of push all their chips in,

and it changes the way their lineup looks considerably, as it looks like Matthew Barzell is going to play the wing. How should we feel about that? This guy you've given this long-term deal to suddenly now being asked to be a winger, not a center. Well, the biggest reason for that, I think, is that he has been awful in the face-off circle this year. He's like 35%.

And Wayne Lambert has essentially taken him out of the face-off circle for the last little while. So that probably has something to do with it. And, you know, he's been starting, Lambert, that is, has been starting Barzell pretty much primarily in the offensive zone. You know, he doesn't take any defensive zone draws, probably partly because of that face-off number. But, you know, you're putting a playmaker in Barzell

with a guy that can finish in Horvat. And this team has been for years, I think, looking for, ever since Jordan E eberly went to the crack and looking for someone it's it's over no more curse the hat trick he's completed the hat trick i told him we're done throw your spectacles on the ice it's so weird because it's not it sounds fine completely normal no no no no no. I knew a minute ago it had a wobble. Speed wobble? Yeah, there was a speed wobble there where he kind of faded out,

and I'm like, this has no chance. Really? Yeah. Yeah. You didn't pick up on that? No. That's a good catch. That was veteran radio guy.

I mean, listen, we do a million radio interviews. I mean, it wobbles once in a while. It wobbles once in a while. But Kevin has made history on Real Kipper Unborn. We have never had the triple doink. The triple doink. That's the triple doink. Okay.

But, like, do you even try to get people to call landlines? Kipper. Nobody has one anymore. I'm going to make Kevin drive home from Philly. Oh, I don't know where he is. Well, I mean, he's on the road in Philly. Oh, is that what it is? Okay.

Listen, no one has a landline. The only person that might have a landline is Lou Lamorello. He might have to go borrow Lou's landline. He's going to borrow Mitch Marner's phone from the beach. Somebody just texted the text line and said, Sammy, you work two hours a day? Get the damn connection fixed. Two hours a day. Thanks, bro. Really appreciate that.

The man puts in hours. I thought prior to Kevin getting zoinked. We're all over the words here. You made a valid point that how many guys make nine million dollars and said yeah we're gonna try in a new position now yeah right away like as the contract starts and that's barzell of course we're talking but i mean 35 in the face-off circle i didn't

realize it was that bad that's you've talked this year about tavavares struggling on the power play, you know, winning draws. If you can't win 45% of your draws as a center, you almost can't play the position. Oof. Oof, indeed. Oof. Any surprise that was Beauvillier? Beauvillier, yeah. Any surprise there? Like,

I was, I thought maybe a Josh Bailey would have been more of a dump contracts than Pavilion. Yeah. I don't know. Like Pavilion, I think they kind of gave up hope that he could be what they want. You know, they want to win in playoffs this year and Bailey's a smart player and does

the right things. Pavilion kind of underperforming and four point whatever next year. So not shocked. One thought I do have on this trade that i wanted to throw in there is that when you trade a draft pick you know there's uncertainty you're talking about no draft pick the first the first that that can be uh as high as 12 and his lottery protected right when you trade for those type of things and you get a guy back you are guaranteeing

an asset you are definitely getting someone to play i think of the bruins who had 13 14 15 as a pick and picked as a boral senation and debrusk you know like people miss at where that draft pick is and so just in terms of the islanders and liking the trade that's another reason i like it fine for them is there's no misc risk you are getting a player ati atu ratu atu ratu ratu do you know anything about him yeah i do great shot um you know really really good guy in terms of getting you know when he has time and space to shoot it bigger body kind of waiting on his foot speed to come around don't love that generally right and tough to be slow and listen we we know lou lamorello historically uh one of the best general managers engineers of uh championship hockey yes all of it like it's well documented hall of famer yeah what happens if this doesn't work and they miss the playoffs?

Where is Lou with the Islanders moving forward? Do you think there is a possibility that they could go, oh, Lou, time's up? I do. Or would Lou be in a position to move up and then bring someone else for the day-to-day operations kyle do this yeah it's yeah after he gets fired from toronto do this it is it's an interesting question but i don't think that lou is capable of being a casual advisory guy i just don't think that's in his dna and i

think that if you're tired of lou you're tired of lou like you've had enough so you know i think that's a possibility if they miss the playoffs like you like we said two two years in a row a new building no playoffs huge risks too right like i mean he's given out big contracts and they're trying to put a playoff team on the ice and you've traded assets you know i think the criticism of lou in new jersey would have been, you know, what he left them with wasn't a pretty picture. And the Isles here, no draft picks, nothing in the prospect pipeline that's particularly moving. Like they have gone all in on now. And if now isn't good enough, then yeah, I can see them saying, what are we doing here with this guy? For the record, I don't think that's how it should go.

I am the first one to say, hey, someone wants to throw me $68 million. I'm scratching real fast. But there is also a risk on Bo Horvaths outside of the guaranteed money. And that is, to your point, that if it's not heading in a great direction, this is a team with like not a lot of, right. You could be bad for a while. You could be bad for a while.

If this thing goes South for sure. You know, I look at this lineup and it is a different way to build the team. You know, Barzell stands alone as a young, you know, dynamic player, but Brock Nelson,

Anders Lee, Parisi, Peugeot, Martin, Sezekis, Bailey, Horvatvat like they're a big veteran solid group but you know if you're too slow yeah it's it's real trouble for sure so yes he's taking a risk but the other risk is you snap your achilles and you never get the 68 million dollar contract so i know you got a little bit of bias but i also know you uh uh give a pretty honest opinion here yeah i hope so chances that this works they make the

playoffs who misses out see that is a great question because it's not do i think they're good it's you know the two teams in the wildcard spots are washington and pittsburgh and they're good if someone is to fall out it's the penguins for me who are pretty flawed guys you know the two teams in the wildcard spots are washington and pittsburgh and they're good if someone is to fall out it's the penguins for me who are pretty flawed guys you know they're not not huge their goaltending is a question mark like penguins aren't a lock that's you know them and buffalo are chasing it down did you catch sorry i was just gonna say kipper that they don't have just one team to contend with if they want to get into the playoffs right like florida's a point behind them now. Buffalo's a point ahead of them.

With two games in hand, and that stuff matters now. And after all those bad things said about Ottawa, they're flirting around there. They're only six points back. Oh, it's going to be a great race. With a game in hand there. Like, if they get hot, too. Great race to get beaten by Boston in five.

Yeah, it's going to be awesome. And there are a lot of nervous Penguins fans. I think Ron Hexdahl addressed the media the other day. And they've been waiting for a very long time for something significant. And the significant part was resigning Malkin and Letang, if you ask me. That was a major, major commitment. Right. But I think it's clear that something's missing there as well.

And they've got a lot of work to do. But as we know, Ron Hextall's reputation is he won't do something for the sake of doing something. He'll stand pat. Which is interesting because it does feel like more than ever, the NHL is results-driven or you lose your job. And, you know, this is a team that also, like the Islanders, it's now or never when your core is all paid. And it's Crosby and Malkin and Letang.

You know, those are big deals to older guys. So I don't see how you stand, Pat, if you've already made the commitment to those guys. Did you guys want to stay in that division and talk about this Tortorella letter that he released today? I didn't see it. Released a letter to the fans today. Tortorella.

Yeah, Tortorella. To the season ticket holders. Yeah, to the season ticket holders. Can you read it? Oh, I'll give you a portion. We the season ticket holders. Yeah, to the season ticket holders. Can you read it? Oh, I'll give you a portion. We suck. What a drop. Can you completely read it?

It's long. Did the crayon smudge? It's long. It is long. So I'll just read you. It said, you know, I'm not going to lie to you. I want to be clear about this. We're not there yet.

This was the first step in building the future for the Flyers and restoring a reputation as one of the most respected teams in hockey. That tone. We suck. I know that people are turning on me in my first year, but we expected to be bad. This is part of the process. Bear with me is the tone of the letter.

Not quite the New York Rangers letter to the season of the letter not quite the new york rangers letter the to the season ticket holders about the rebuild but a little bit we're in the thick of the season right now and we're going to see how our group responds to challenges that lay ahead with a grueling schedule it's a grind but all the all of that is extremely important to see what we have and what we need to move forward this excites me because i can promise you this the answers those questions will come and on and on and on we haven't done anything i find that incredibly strange do you strange yes this is the era of communication why now and why tortorella that's to me as a general manager letter. Attendance. That's my first thought,

is Comcast and everyone else. He actually says, we need you. The bottom paragraph, Sam, isn't there like a, we need you to be a part of this. We need the fans. They are that scared.

We need you with us. Yeah, we need you with us. We're going to get through this right. We're going to make you proud. And together, we're going to remind everyone. They're that scared that people are disappearing? That's Jeb Bush saying, please clap. Well, listen. I mean, not to get too other sport focused here, though,

but the Philadelphia 76ers are one of the best teams in the NBA. The Philadelphia Eagles are now in the Super Bowl. The Philadelphia Phillies were in the World Series. They were a really good team this year. And they just made a, I think they signed Trey Turner in in the offseason they're going to be on the up and up like flyers are like flyers connect me flyers are completely like they should not be an irrelevant franchise in the nhl like you've said a million times kipper it's you know it's one of the best better league when they're yeah 100 we're yeah we're we're a worse league without them great And I agree.

I hate the Flyers. I hate the Flyers, those battles with the Leafs. I always had this disdain towards the Flyers. You should never not be thinking about the Flyers. And you look at their market, they're kind of getting buried here. Yeah. I get it. But, like, a letter?

That ain't going to get me to go. Begging people to like you and, you know. Yeah, it's never really convinced anyone. Please like me. I'm really nice. Kipper, that's what I did the first time we met. I was like, Jesus, how the hell am I going to do this? Please like me.

Please like me. I mean, I think there could have been better ways to kind of remind people of that without actually writing a letter on your hands and knees. I think a fair question is, did he just decide to do that impromptu? Not a chance. Right. Not a chance. Designed. Is it related to the Provera public PR mess? decide to do that impromptu like he wanted not a chance right so then not a chance designed is it related to the provera public pr mess i would think that that was uh had something to do with it i would think that this is uh comcast the owners i guess of the philadelphia flyers going

uh you are our face you're the one that people relate to. You need to do this, not Chuck Fletcher, our general manager. Yeah, I would, and would you say, I mean, I have no idea of that market, but I would say that, you know, John Tortorella has a little more leash in that market than Chuck Fletcher would at this point, no? I gotta believe Chuck's leash is up there holding McCuller right now. That's what I mean. And like John Tortorella at least is sort of a star coach

who is just there for the first year. I would say he probably has a little bit more clout at this point. Yeah. And I think, what was your question, if this had anything to do with Pro Pro? Yeah, the PR mess. No, this has everything to do with where they are in the standings. And I guess, again, I don't think it's a coincidence that,

to Sammy's point, Eagles are looking at a Super Bowl. Other sports are thriving. Don't forget about us before you focus on the Super Bowl all weekend or all week. You know, they're a 500 hockey team. I understand not in reality, but they're 21-21-9. You know, they're ahead of Detroit, Montreal, and Columbus right now. Well, with games in hand, sorry.'re 21, 21 and nine. You know, they're ahead of Detroit, Montreal and Columbus right now. Well, with games in hand, sorry. Sorry, without games in hand.

But, you know, it hasn't been an abject disaster. So, it is strange. I think the last two and a half, three years, your biggest star is your mascot. Right. That's the face of the franchise right now. Who do you most want to watch on the flyers when you go to the rink right now? Kevin Hayes ain't it? Gritty.

Yeah, Gritty's ahead of Konechny, Provorov, D'Angelo, Carter Hart. And that's an issue. Yeah. Need a Bonner Kadard or someone that sounds like that. That'd be a great place for him to go. Love for him to go to Philly. Big time. Yeah.

I'm sorry, I missed that. Conor Bedard. Conor Bedard. Oh, boy. Wouldn't that be a great landing spot? That would be a fantastic one. Welcome to the NHL. Torch is your coach.

Yeah, that's true. I actually wouldn't. Defense. I wouldn't mind Columbus either as a landing spot for him. Just what a bad take that is. What noise? No, but listen, if you're going to commit. Eastern Conference, you're playing against relevant teams.

If you are going to commit to these franchises, and Arizona would be like the number one. Good or bad? Nightmare. That if I'm the league, I want him to go to Arizona. You want him to play in Mullet Arena for three years? Yeah, no, I want him. No, he helps build an arena.

He helps the process. He changes people's attitudes. And Philly, come on, they lived it with Eric Lindros. They made the trade for Lindros and like a snap of a finger, they got a brand new

building off of Eric Lindros' back. Conor Bedard sold out the Saddle Dome for a junior hockey yeah but that's canada yeah no you can have wayne gretzky you're now gonna put him using those 19 000 you're gonna put him in front of 4 800 every night okay that's your point i thought you meant like maybe like there's a like for a year my point is like what are we doing for a year or two yeah maybe yeah my agent's telling you.

Well, that's a different topic of conversation. But I'm just telling you that if I haven't moved the Arizona Coyotes now, I'm all in. Oh, yeah. That is a clincher for sure. This is the greatest hockey asset moving forward on the planet. I think Bedard would pass Shane Doan's career scoring record by his fourth season or thereabouts.

That would be unbelievable for them. Yeah, I think you could have Wayne Gretzky in his prime at Mullen Arena right now, and you'd probably still get 3K a night. I honestly don't think it matters. All right, do we have a few clues and notes? We've got a bunch of Gary Bettman stuff. All right. Let's go to Commissioner Gary Bettman, Bill Daley. They had a press conference on Saturday.

A lot of different topic of conversation. Let's start with the salary cap. Bill Daley. Well, actually, there is a competition committee. There's really no change in our projections from where we were in december so it remains the same and we have not engaged with the players association on on this specific issue at all since december either there seem to be otherwise occupied on important matters. So I'm sure when the time's right, we'll get to it.

Well, it's hard because there's no one to really talk to in the PA. They're looking for a new executive director. The name Marty Walsh has come up, a former mayor of Boston. I was going to ask you, who's that? No disrespect to Marty Walsh. I just don't know who it is. Former mayor of Boston. Interesting.

Any hockey ties? None that I know of. Just Allen's brother. That's all. No relation to Allen Walsh, the prominent agent in the National Hockey League. Don't you think they should have a... I guess it doesn't matter. This one's off the charts, boys, for sure, for me anyways.

But a well-known politician on the east coast that has no particular hockey background to my knowledge can i give you a hot take on that but would come in as uh someone that is knows the political landscape of negotiating contracts, CBAs maybe, maybe that's the hook here. I don't know how hard that's going to be needed moving forward on a system that already works predominantly on 50-50. You know, I vacillate on this. How much do you think having hockey,

I feel like hockey is a unique little animal. Like you have to understand the ins and outs of this sport and its history and its cultural impacts and all that, you know, to understand it. And not that, I guess that's just a separate entirely business aspect. Is that fair?

Like you don't need the hockey side for that part. I know I'm not trying to be like a gatekeeper that someone from the outside couldn't come in and do a great job. Maybe he can. It just, hockey's weird. It is weird. And under any circumstance,

whatever you're dealing with, I'm a firm believer of pick your poison or pick your battles. And I think you do have to have a culture and understanding of the game and what's important to the players and what's not. Strikes we've been through. No, forget that for a second. But little stuff too. What matters to players, what doesn't.

Where you want to draw the line on stuff that you believe in and where principles lie and then there's kind of the tradition of of what you're fighting for as well i mean it's hard for someone to come in on the outside and and have that grasp it's going to take a lot of hand holding right which you'd like to not have to do with the head of a pretty big entity personally that's why they tried it a while ago with paul kelly who came off i think the heels of ted saskin if i am remembering this correctly and he didn't he did not last and he was a major prosecutor out of boston as well and my guess is paul kelly would

know marty walsh they'd have they would have crossed paths they might even be friends i don't know um but uh it did not fare well for for paul kelly and the longer he stayed the more people felt players that um the hand holding is just a little bit too much yeah of a task right now yeah okay fair enough. Well, that'll be interesting to keep an eye on. We do have more clips, Kipper. Do you want to do? Oh, this one's good.

Okay. The playoff format. Yes. Yeah, let's go to Gary Bettman, Bill Daly on the playoff format. Well, actually, there is a competition committee, and we have discussions about the game all the time, and that's actually the best place to talk about it. I thought the Athletic did a poll, and it was 14 against and two in favor of having a play-in round.

You know, the debate of one versus eight, it's not just that. You've got to also look at then changing the wild card, and you've got to start looking at the matchups in terms of how many times everybody's playing everybody else if you're having conference-based playoffs so it's not as simple as saying i'd like one versus eight versus what we have it involves a whole host of other issues that have to be addressed and by the way since uh the last time we polled the general managers on this which was only two years ago two-thirds of them favored keeping the playoff system the way it is. Doesn't mean you don't revisit it,

talk about it again, but this is not some burning issue out there. Man, he's good at grabbing a selective poll that suits him, huh? The thing that kills me is like, it just makes it seem like there's all these hoops they have to do. You are literally the commissioner. You're the hoop. Do it. I do not

agree. It's like he makes it, he has such a great way of making it seem like it's just huge you know it's like sure it's a big thing you can just do it you did it for how many years it was one versus eight it's not it's like oh you gotta protect the wild who gives it protect the wild card you made the wild card that's your creation and toronto may very well still play tampa but we don't have to know in november exactly yeah that's exactly let us find out in april agreed and when sydney crosby is speaking out on this i think like get some attention i think it matters yeah like sydney crosby saying that he prefers one versus eight should hold some weight with gary batman well and

what's you know what's interesting too is you only play your own division you know four times sometimes three times you're playing everyone else two times you know it's a very even distribution of games played it's it's fine to go one versus eight i don't i don't really see the issue i know they want to go more division heavy they want six division games and just two against everyone else in the league. And then it makes sense to have a divisional format if you're really in your own division for the regular season. But that's just not the case right now. I don't see anything changing anytime soon. Would you want more divisional play?

When there are going to be changes, I would probably say in another three or four years, we're going to see maybe a qualifying situation. We're going to see more games, more money. They're not going to leave that off the table. It's just too much money. I put what we see in the playoffs now compared to their stance on either gambling or or putting logos on the jerseys we're never going to do that never going to do that it's not in our plans gambling's not in our plans uh putting a a corporate logo on a montreal canadian a toronto maple leaf jersey

isn't my plans and then electronic board ads aren't part of our plan and and and the changes in the playoffs are going to come they're just not coming in the next few years the so by the time the leafs are not competing and they'll change it right yeah for sure although right now the play-in wild card games would be some mix of washington pittsburgh buffalo islanders florida right you'd get four of those teams and sort of matchups how fun would that be for the chance to get in because in in the playoffs in the nhl you can upset anyone it wouldn't be beyond any of those one game winner take all yeah now you've got true parody like you don't have parody for 82 games because teams get knocked out now in November. But you do have it on a one-night winner-take-all.

That would be really fun. Okay, the weekend wasn't, there was some controversy involved with Commissioner Bettman and Bill Daley. A lot of people, you know, forced Gary, I think, to defend a little bit of the Pride Night situation. Your thoughts on on that was it uh was it a bigger deal than uh than it was made out to be or do you think you put him on the spot i feel like you know his sole goal and you know i saw the interview with ron mclean clip of him answering

it too as well if you want to get if you want to sure don't hear it yeah well i actually the rangers didn't as an organization, opt out of Pride Night. Actually, I think you were in the building, and they activated across the board. And other than a couple of players not wearing the Pride jersey, we had a very significant Pride Night presence and activation. Listen, you know what our goals, our values, and our intentions are across the league, whether it's at the league level or at the club level, but we also have to respect some individual choice and some people are more comfortable embracing themselves

and causes than others. And part of being diverse and welcoming is understanding those differences. See, I think he handled that well. Yeah. But why does he have to be so combative up top always? Yeah. So sorry. No, it's just like I was going to say that earlier in these questions.

It was a very lawyer answer. And like he had that prepared and he said perfectly what probably he wanted to say. But I just don't know why he has to come off the top with all these questions so adversarial all the time. Do you notice that both Daly and Bettman, the start of the questions, well, actually, we have a competition committee for that. Well, actually is not the way that...

Well, actually... Yeah, see, to me, he's just... Okay, but I mean, those are little things. Yeah, those are little quibbles. No, but that's a lot of his perception, is are little things. But that's a lot of his perception is people get pissed off at how adversarial he is towards everything. But we are now going into supporting individual choice, and that may not sit well with a lot of people,

but we have to respect that, do we not? I think he did a good job of framing the idea that they can't make people do things they don't want to do, whether their attitude is right, wrong or otherwise. And so we're just going to try to avoid those situations. And I get from a league commissioner standpoint why the best thing to do is just say, I can't make them do it. You know, and that's where we are today. And we're just going to have to doesn't change how I feel about the people who make those decisions. But as a commissioner, I get it.

Yeah, okay. I mean, I think we're all on the same page there, and I think that's fair. Which also led to a tweet on the weekend from Hall of Famer, and regarded as one of the best goalies in history, and Dominic Hoschuk. What was his tweet, Sammy? He said that the NHL has sunk to rock bottom,

letting Ovechkin's son perform on the ice at the NHL All-Star is spitting in the face of approximately 500 killed and thousands of injured and tens of thousands of kidnapped Ukrainian children. The NHL and Gary Bettman must pay for this heinous act, is what he tweeted. And that's strong, maybe the best goalie of all time. He is the best goalie of all time, for sure.

But if we're going to go back, and I think Gary may have mentioned this, maybe this tweet came out during the weekend, enough for him to comment. He was asked about it. He was. And, you know, again, he stuck to... Want to play the clip?

Yeah. Dominic Hasik has been a vocal critic for the last year or so, and he's entitled to his opinion. I don't think he speaks either for the Czech government or people, but he is entitled to his opinion. And that is it. It goes back to individual choice. So.

I can't help that it didn't, I can't say it didn't cross my mind watching Ovechkin. I thought about it the entire time. Yeah. If I'm being honest, but I think Borny and I are more like, you know, it rubs me the wrong way

how in the public eye and how everyone's just kind of forgotten about this. That's okay. It can rub you the wrong way how in the public eye and how everyone's just kind of forgotten about this. That's okay. It can rub you the wrong way. Yeah. But I think we watched this weekend and everybody's got their individual choice, but they choose not to focus on it. Yeah, but what's too much for you, Kipper? Like this guy supports a murderous dictator.

He's in his Instagram profile picture. Here's when it's too much. When I don't want to support it any longer, right? When I choose to say I don't want to stop making my living from it, I choose not to support it, I choose not to buy tickets anymore, they're not at that. It's not affecting the bottom line so why why do we have to draw attention let me ask you something pretty well covered by the media right on the weekend the event well received with the media lots of media yeah right yeah how many people asked sydney crosby how do you feel

about ovechkin like you want to go down on a breakawayby, how do you feel about Ovechkin? Like you want to go down on a breakaway with him. How do you feel about him having Putin on his social media? Did one person ask him that question? No. That I know of? No. Right?

But I don't get where you're going with that. My point is that, like, at the end of the day, people that matter on the bottom line don't really care. So for Bettman, it's like... For Bettman, why should I care? If it's not affecting my business and my bottom line, why should I care? Yeah. But that's painting a pretty, I guess, a poor picture of someone who's, that's all they care about. You know, a lot of people would say, well, you should care because you should care. It's people, it's lives. It's, you know.

It doesn't affect the bottom line. He's a business guy. He's there to make the owner's money. I mean, go ahead and expect to get booed then. Booed? Yeah. But when you stop showing up to buy his tickets, then he'll notice. They may get there eventually.

Hey, by the way, boys, big time listener of the show, one of my best buddies, oldest buddies in the world, Donnie LaHaye. Happy birthday to you today, buddy. Was it LaHaye? Nice. One of my best buds. Happy birthday. Tell him to call in and you can drop him. All right.

That was a quick two hours. Thanks for joining, everybody. Our thanks to Kevin Kurz from The Athletic. It is best. And Dave Nonas, general manager, former general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Eric Francis, too. And Eric Francis.

Oh, thanks. My concussion kicked in there. We're back tomorrow, everybody. Have a great night.