Real Kyper & Bourne - Around the NHL with Shayna Goldman

Episode Date: May 8, 2026

The Athletic's Shayna Goldman (7:00) joins Justin Bourne and Sam McKee to kick off the National Hour. They discuss the Flyers falling 0-3 to the Hurricanes, Evan Bouchard and Moritz Seider missing out on being Norris Trophy finalists, Vegas struggling to find the next level against Anaheim, Auston Matthews' future in Toronto, what Connor Bedard's next contract might look like, and much more. Later, Justin and Sam discuss Zach Benson's postseason breakout, and close out the week by answering your questions on the text line! The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Welcome to the National Hour of Real Kipper and Born. I am Justin Bourne. joined once again by Sammy McKee on the desk. Sammy, hello. Hello. Welcome back to this desk. We are live on SportsNet, Sportsnet, Sportsnet, 650 in Vancouver, Sportsnet 960 in Calgary. And streaming always on Spotify.

Or Sportsnet Plus. If you miss our show live, you can always get it on Spotify, Apple Podcast, and YouTube. This hour, Real Kipper-Born is brought to you by Bet 365. And hey, text us at 595. We will read them in the back half of the show. Somebody texting it and said, make Sammy talk about the habs. They're going to bounce back tonight.

Make them talk about it. Okay. I mean, talk about it. I think they're going to bounce back tonight. Oh, okay. The perfect take. End of time. I can't.

I like, I mean, truthfully, I watch all the games. I think Colorado is fantastic. I think they're awesome to watch. You know, the ducks, they're both. Like, all these teams are great. But the games I really look forward to. is HAB's sabers.

I think it's the best, just young talent, ahead of schedule teams. And I said it's going to go seven. I picked the Sabres because I have no idea and they have the game, home game seven. So that was my sort of rationale.

But I think it's going to be a close series. And I think that the HABs found something in the second half that game they're going to come back and maybe win tonight. 7 p.m. Buffalo Montreal tonight on Sports Net and then Ducks and the Golden Knights at 9.30 after that. Yeah, the Montreal Buffalo series

is kind of where it's at. It's interesting watching some of the pressure pile up for Cole Cawfield who's not, you know, throw in the puck in the net a whole bunch. Yeah, I think he's had a quote today where he said he expects more out of himself. You know, it's tough and playoffs. It's hard. They go that guy. Yes.

That's the guy. Don't let him shoot it in. And like not to stereotype, but a lot of the smaller guys have a harder time in the playoffs. And has he have an even strength point? Like he's really, really fighting it. And he is one of their key guys. He scored 50 goals for them this year. They had a parade.

They celebrated it like they had won the Stanley Cup when he got 50 goals. So you need him to start shooting it in the net a little bit. But they're in the second round. They're in these games. They have a ton of great players. But he's got to get it going. Got to find a way. I remember hearing Fridge say that he was one of the guys who seems to be wearing it a little bit more than the other guys,

Slavkovsky and Suzuki. So they need a big night from those guys. Since Slavkosky got punched out, he hasn't been great. Hasn't been honest. I mean, that sentence is that quantifies what hockey is. Yeah. It sucks getting punched out. It sure does.

I can tell you. Yeah. All right. So some more awards were announced. We're going to get the Shana here shortly, but the Heart Trophy finalists were announced, were they not? They were. Who you got?

The three correct names. Okay. It was Nathan McKinnon, Potter McDavid, and Nikita Kuturov. So differing from the Ted Lindsay Award, where the players had selected Celebrini over McKinnon. Which is crazy. It is crazy. McKinnon might win the heart.

Yes. Like, is there like a. The guy's not like McKinnon? I think they're just used to him. Maybe that's it. You know, it's sort of like, you know, always looking for the new flavor. And Celebrini definitely is that. And I think they kind of, everyone was more impressed or shocked by what Celebrini did

than by McKinnon. We take for granted greatness. And you're watching the playoffs where he's just steamrolling everyone. But I'm really happy that those three guys are the finalists. Like I was worried when I saw the Ted Lindsay that Macklin Celebrity was worried. Worried is the wrong word. I was interested to see if he was going to get in there. He's, guess what?

I think he's got a heart nomination or two in his career coming up here, Mackleham Celebrating. I think he's probably going to be okay. But the fact that they rewarded the three best players in the leagues who had the three best seasons, to me it's just those are the three guys, no-brainer and the hockey writers, yourself include, included. They nailed it. Yep, fine.

Good to hear. Yesterday, not as much of a nailed job with no Evan Bouchard in the top three. I'm going to ask Shane her take on that when we get her. but I saw a variety of takes about how Moritz Cider was a must name. I saw some say it was ridiculous that they didn't have Cider in the top three. You yesterday were very clear that you think it's ridiculous at Bouchard's not in the top three. I saw some stats today talking about Werensky being top two in every conceivable category. And he's a finalist.

Yeah. He deserved to be a finalist. Totally. But then, you know, Cail McCarvey asked me who's the best player in the world on D. I still think it's him. Quinn Hughes on the outlaying Hudson had an awesome time. Rasmus Dahlin, you know, Captain Points D. It really does feel that we are in a golden era for top defense.

Tough time to not have one. Yeah, it feels like you should probably get one. Maybe you should probably get one. And I just realized because I'm not quote unquote producing. I forgot to change the jersey. I think that's okay. Is it? No.

Do you think I should change it? Okay. Is Shana there yet or no? I don't think I should get up and leave you by yourself. Garth and Waynesworth? It changes a little bit the dynamic when Kippers out here and I have to change a jersey. I'm sorry to everybody. It's going to be the least.

It's always about the least. Sorry, my bad. Yeah. So last night, Carolina Hurricanes take another one from Philly in Philly. And I got to be honest, not that close a game. Yeah. I think the turning point of that game was Taylor Hall hammering Sandheim somewhat greasily. Do you think it's really greasy?

I think it is pretty greasy. And I thought the fact that they changed it. to not a major, I thought was somewhat surprising. Yeah. So to go from that moment of them not getting the major, to go to that power play, and immediately have a shorty score on you and that sort of switch in the building,

gals mentioned on the, he mentioned on the broadcasts that the people were already pissed in the crowd, then you have that happen. They just never got back in that game. Carolina had to puck the whole rest of it. My cottage industry of hating on Freddie Anderson is, we're down bad.

The industry is not, we're not booming. It's, it's, it is. Having a hard time right now. getting messages left right and center from people DMs friends everyone would be like oh their guy you did you did you see the Zegra stuff I did so Tocut's to him yep at like a TV timeout and he's kind of going enough with the refs yeah you know we presume enough with the refs you know you all talk to them don't worry about them and at intermission there's a camera in the dressing room and they cut to Zegris and he's kind of looking around well here you go you got to talk right here he's going that I'm

that's nothing he's saying and when he points to himself I think I think he's saying that's my job. That's what I'll do. As eager in this intermission clip, too, is kind of hard on him. Someone, he's not happy with the way things are going. You know what? If you're watching on SportsCenter on YouTube, that's a nasty goal. Bring that that close into your feet and dig that out and get it upstairs.

So hard to do. Brutal duster. Brutal duster. Holy. Holy. Neither of those things. Yeah, you can say about me. Okay.

Shana Goldman is joining us now National Hockey Riter at the Athletic. and the Too Many Men podcast, Shana, how are you? I'm good. Thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks for joining us. We really appreciate it. We were just having a little chit-chat about the old Flyers,

Carolina Hurricanes series. Have you ever been more sure that a series is over after three games than I feel about this one? Yeah, absolutely. Especially this postseason, it feels like, you know, the King's abs. It felt like, okay, that's your series is probably done. But maybe the Kings could sneak when out of his low-scoring it up.

And even Flyers go up on Pittsburgh and you go, well, if this could go, you know, six, seven games, maybe the penguins have a shot, right? Like, just to, you know, mix things up. This one, it's like the Flyers had their shot. If they weren't winning game two, I don't know. Could they sneak one out at home to extend the series a day? Sure, why not?

That's how to the ceiling. They might get one. Just go to Cabo. That's all for baby. It's time. You know, before we had you on here, and we're going to talk about all the current hockey, but I do think, I believe you're,

NHL Awards voter and they've announced some of these picks right now. The one that seems most contentious because I think there's a lot of good picks as the Norris trophy. Yesterday, Sammy yelled at the writers for not having Evan Bouchard. I saw people yelling about Moritz cider today. Finalists are Werenski, McCar, and Dahlene. Where do you say, you don't tell us your picks. In fact, I don't think you can, but tell us your shaping of the word, your thoughts on it.

Okay, this is one of my favorite awards. It's always one of my favorite conversations because I feel. I feel like we're finally starting to get away from a place where it's, it's this guy's year and he deserves it, right? And I think we're also evolving away from just, let's look at average ice time and block shots because guys like Kevin Bouchard aren't in the conversation if that's the case. But now there's so much offense in the conversation. To me, I think offense matters. It's all around. But then the other side of the ice also matters.

You know, someone like Bouchard, yes, he was better defensively this year. Yes, the defensive lapses are way more glaring for him than. anyone else because the goaltending situation is so precarious in Edmonton. But the one thing that holds me back in general with his game to be a Norris winner is that when he makes a mistake, you know, you'll see him get trapped in his own zone. It's those puck retrievals, right? There's sometimes there's just a little bit too much risk for me in that and you see him get hemmed in his own end when he makes a mistake in those sequences versus say, a Mauree Sider, who I think brings the defense vacuuming you should have for this award.

I think if you're going all around, you have to check a couple boxes, right? It's not the same as, say, the selfie where it's like, you must kill X number of penalties. You must do all of this. It's like you should be doing a little bit of everything. So you should be retrieving pucks with a little less risk. You should be moving the puck up the ice and in transition.

I don't think Evan Bouchard does that as well some of the other guys in the conversation this year either. You should be doing a little of everything, killing penalties, going up against top competition, contributing offensively, and playing some shutdown defense. And so that's my line of thinking with him. I think that the top three guys are definitely top five caliber,

but I do think cider's missing from that. So just the Bouchard thing and the points thing, which you mentioned that we're kind of getting, but when did we get away from that? Like I know it's, you know, antiquated, maybe old school to be like, you had the most points. I think Carlson broke people because they were like,

you have to try on D a bit. I think, you know, he, just having 14 more points than the next guy and being, you know, playing every single game of the season. I just, I don't think he should win. I'm not making the case for him to win. I think Zach Wrenski should probably win it or Kiel McCar.

One of those two guys, I think, would be my vote. But I just, I think you have to still somewhat reward the offensive side of the puck with the, we've been doing it for forever with this award to the point where we've been like, well, there should be an award for the defensive play, defensive defense of the year too. So I just, I did the optics of me of it are off to me. That's all. That's the case I'm making.

I'm surprised that he didn't get nominated because of just how far and ahead he was with all the points. Well, the Carlson year is a funny one because I think that year, and also the year Roman Yossi was popping off on the square sheet. Those were years I actually got to vote too. So for me, I looked at those guys and thought they should be in the MVP race. I don't know if they necessarily check off all the defensive boxes to be the best all around defensemen in the world. And I know that can be tough, right? Like how can one fit in one category but not the other? sometimes I feel like the Norris trophy just gets treated like the most valuable defensemen.

Yes. And not the best all around defensemen. And I am nitpicky with this. I'm incredibly nitpicky with these awards. And I think this year we have to split hairs, right? But the scoring is great and wonderful. The quality of teammates he plays with and shares the eyes with. Great and wonderful, too, and factors in as well.

But I just feel like some of the other side is missing a little bit. So I would love it if we could, you know, keep thinking critically about all of these defensemen and having these conversations. because I do think it helps move the needle a little bit more than maybe we saw 10 years ago with these awards conversations of like, Drew Dowdy deserves it because he got robbed in the past and it's like, okay, but what did he do this year? Like, what have you done for me lately? But I do think there should be split awards

and I know a lot of people are in favor of that. I'm not saying there shouldn't be more awards for defensemen because defensemen for some reason generally are limited to just the Norris. But I think splitting the awards, honestly, is a cop-out. Like we should be better at figuring out who the best all-around defenseman is. You want to have something for the best shutdown defenseman, sure, or the best offensive defenseman. And I'm not arguing for an S-Lindel to jump into the Norris race because the offense should matter. That's the difference between a Lindell and a cider.

But I think we can't get too carried away with just the score sheet. Yeah. Yeah. And just the hard finalist that were named today, any quibbles with anything there? Were you surprised by Celebrini for the Ted Lindsay? I mean, I have, can I, am I? I'll have to say like I have someone top five. Yeah, oh yeah.

You can say names in your ballot. I just don't think you can say the order. Okay. Well, I did have Celebrini top three. Okay. I can say he's in my top three. I think he belongs there. Yeah.

If you want to say the last two weeks of the season, he wasn't as incredible as he was the rest of the way, we can have that conversation. If you want to say they didn't make the playoffs, it wasn't enough. He can't win. I'm not fully on board with that, but I do think you can be a top five Norris trophy candidate

without the playoffs. I think you have. to basically not be a bottom feeder. To me, that's like that line, right? If you're second to last in the division or in the, I mean, in the conference, you probably shouldn't be here. But if your team's anywhere near the playoff picture and you're the reason why, you definitely belong in the discussion.

So I, it was McKinnon, right? That was, uh, yes. Yeah. That's the one for me. Do I think McKinnon's top five? Yes. Do I think that, uh, celebrating should be top five, even more so. Um, so it's going to move to the actual hockey here now.

Please. Habs, Sabres, two super young teams, kind of feeling like they're ahead of schedule to be at this spot. I thought the first game kind of Sabres jumped on in a little bit, and then the Habs kind of cleaned up towards the end. I think we're in for a great game two. How do you feel this series is moving here as we head into game two in Buffalo tonight?

I hope we're in for great game too. I hope we're in for seven games because I think that Canadians' Lightning Series is going to be tough to top. But it does feel like on paper these teams are even closer. like by the numbers, by roster strength, that it should be neck and neck, should go the distance. I totally agree on that. Sabers jumped on these opportunities. They played with a lot of speed.

And I think that's impressive because their speed and their aggression in general helped them win that series against the Bruins, which you watch the Bruins and say, okay, 2026, we're done with the big bad Bruins. Like, if you can't keep up with the team like the Buffalo Sabres, you're going to be in trouble. So it's exciting to see how, you know, these faster teams are making an impact when that's not your like prototypical playoff hockey. but also the way that the Sabres adjusted to it, knowing still play to that, even though you're going up against an opponent who can match you in that speed and actually play that pace.

For Montreal, definitely need to adjust to that too because they had a series where they went up against a team like Tampa Bay who looked slower and older at times compared to Montreal. So it's all about who adjusts first. I also think it's going to be interesting to see how they keep working with that Suzuki line to get them on the score sheet a little bit more consistently here

because we haven't seen enough from them. So I wonder if maybe Dobson has had those two games to shake off the rest a little bit more that will help give them the support on the back end they need on both ends of the ice to help maximize what they bring to the lineup offensively. Nice. Well, let's skip over to a couple other series. The one that I'm kind of fascinated by is this Vegas team, which should be very, very good, right? Like I think.

But for some reason, it just feels like they're just not quite. And that's not to say that they're not going to win this round. and be in the conference final and everyone be like, wow, that's a really good year. But it just feels like they've not been who we thought they would be this year. What are your thoughts here? Is Anaheim is kind of the opposite, where a lot of people, myself included,

were like, ah, they don't defend well enough. And man, you talk about fast, they're very Buffalo-like and that they're big and fast. So the Vegas team, though, is the one I'm more interested in chatting about and where you think they're at. I think that they had a much better game one. And I think at times throughout the entire postseason so far, you watch them and you go,

well, they're that battle-tested experience team, right? And I hate the cliches and I hate the narratives, but it's true. You watch how Utah was super resilient and they would go to overtime and they had the legs to keep up, you know, pass the 60-minute marker. You know, they knew how to kill these penalties or clamp down on the forecheck and do what they needed to do. And you saw that in game one. Anaheim couldn't generate anything on their power play, which was so effective against the Oilers. They couldn't even, you know, establish their formation in the zone. Like it felt like Vegas had that edge and then it comes down to the play where there's a missed icing call.

And I do think, you know, it was unfortunate for Anaheim. But at the end of the day in that, you keep playing until you hear the whistles. Vegas knew that. Anaheim, it felt like that was like an inexperienced mistake there. And I think Anaheim definitely, you know, they adjusted. They played a much tighter defensive game against Vegas. But I'm a little bit more worried about the Golden Knights in the series because it doesn't. feel like one, there's more writing on it for them.

They're an older team. And two, on paper, they should be the better team. But it feels like Anaheim's offense just comes in waves. So that's going to be interesting to see how they handle that. I thought the Haniffin and Anderson could have been sharper. And I think they really struggled against the Cutter-Gote line. And I don't think the goaltending has been as good as some of the numbers show. I think even in game one, you saw some of the saves that Hart was making.

And it felt like how the ducks spaced out a little better in the offensive zone were, there for more of those second chance opportunities, it would have been a totally different story. So I think Vegas has more in the tank, and I think they need to find that gear if they're going to be the ones going to the conference final. Yeah, you mentioned Goce, man. God. He's one of my favorite guys to watch the league.

And, you know, talking about Canadian and American here, I feel like he's going to be a big time problem for Canada for a lot of years. Or talking to an American. Yeah, I know. That's what I mean. It's just like I have fear of him when I, if I'm a, a fan of an opposing team or a fan of Canada watching him play for America inevitably for the next 15 years. That kid's a stud.

He's really, really good. Yeah, he has a great shot. He's one of the most frequent shooters in the league. He can rip it on the power play. He can do it at even strength. And like for the ducks specifically, too, you see that on a different line than Leo Carlson. Leo Carlson was a scoring chance machine in round one.

And I think he still has so much room to grow to become that true superstar that looks like he has a ceiling to come to have that spread across your top six for the next potentially, you know, 10 plus years, that's a great threat to have both of them just look really great so far. Well, that's actually fascinating way to segue into the Toronto Maple Leafs, and I just have to ask one by law.

By law. They are undergoing discussions right now about are they going to have their captain or not? And it feels like the ball's in his court on that. He'll be free to make that decision, which will greatly affect where they're at. But I look at Anaheim, and they have all these talented guys that are the same age

that are coming up together as sort of this cohort of talent. Would it be the worst thing for the Leafs? If they said, okay, Matthews has got to move on. We're going to go get a couple of young, talented players. People have kicked around Utah and they've got a Ginnlin, Dainoeia, and, you know, like, could it be a couple guys like that? What are your thoughts on the way the Leaf should go, how that would affect them?

I mean, I think the best move is collecting skills. So if you can have Matthews and McKinnon, sorry, and McKenna together, that's always a good thing. It's like the Dobson conversation of last summer of like he has to move because they're bringing in Schaefer. They both can't play the power play. Well, he goes to Montreal and he's not getting on the power play either

because he has Lane Hudson there. And I don't think anyone's complaining. I think everyone's looking at it going, wow, those are great defensive pairs. Anyone be lucky to have that across your top four. So I would say the same thing here. It's not like you look down the middle in Toronto and go, well, they can afford to lose Matthews.

They can't. If they had their next two first round picks, maybe this is a different conversation because if they move Matthews, you better hope they get someone that was that top 10 pick caliber player, because even if they come back with first round picks from, say, Utah or L.A. or any of those teams in the mix, they're not going to be as valuable as those first rounders would have been from Toronto itself because if they move Matthews, they're going to finish lower in the standings.

So could they have the conversation? Sure. If you're at Toronto, you should be exploring every single avenue, be as creative as possible, say, you know, nothing is off limits just yet to figure out what this next. path should be. But if Matthews wants to stay for it, I would say, okay, great. That is a great future to have them because, yes, you want to have this next wave of young talent coming up together. We're seeing it in San Jose. We're seeing it in Anaheim, but you also need players of different ranges too, right? Like, you look at how San Jose has found those veterans to put around their

core players to maximize them, the Sherwoods, the Wehamburgs, and in Anaheim, it's the Kreider's in the Grandlands. Like, there's value there. You don't want to go overboard with it. You don't want to be signing, I think a lot about like Buffalo, the years that they signed, you know, Ocposo and Moulson, and it just didn't line up with their timelines. It just didn't make sense. It felt like they were trying to put a band-aid on what they didn't have. But if you have enough young talent and then it's supplementary, like, around them,

your veterans, that's a good thing to have. But obviously, if you have a star like Matthews, why not lean into that? Yeah, it's nice just to have options. Yeah. And really, that's what that first overall pick kind of represents is a little bit of a future options. So I'm going back, I mean, I'm changing the, subject off the leafs going back to the hockey. That's first time for everything.

Hey man. All good. Is there any world where it's not Carolina, Colorado? That is my simple way. It just feels like this is so inevitable. Then we just fast forward. Yeah, it feels like in the West that's inevitable in particular. I don't think anyone can hold a candles, Colorado.

And I think the key thing here is Colorado is winning games in all different ways. If you look, they're a great rush team with a ton of speed. They absolutely are. They're a great defensive team too. They have great net minding. Oh, and they can play it really physically too. And that's been really hurting Minnesota. And as Minnesota, if or when they get healthier, right?

The potential of having Erickson neckback is huge, but the Brodine factor and what now their blue lines left with. It's hard to see anyone else coming out of this series. But you hear, oh, well, the wild, they bullied the stars out of round one. Well, I don't see that happening here because Colorado can play that way too. So I have a tough time seeing anyone else in that position. In the East, it's going to be pretty interesting because the canes, the games have been relatively close, especially against the senators in round one.

but it does feel like they haven't been tested a ton. So would I be curious to see what, say, a Buffalo could do against them in the conference final? Absolutely. Totally different play styles from what they've seen so far and just such a huge test. Plus, there's the pressure of the situation, too, of this should be their year. It has to be there. It has to be, right? There's no Florida here.

There's none of the expected contenders here. And they also just generally have struggled in this position. So, oh, also they're playing, you know, great hockey on both ends of the ice. Like for every which reason, they should be there. But I would be curious what happens in the East. I still think that one's a little bit more up in the air for me. I want to see what it looks like when the canes get tested. I want to see how they handle that moment because they look great so far.

But, you know, round three is when it really matters most for them. They're going to lose eventually, I think. To somebody in the East, maybe. Odds are high. Yeah, maybe lose one or two on their way here at some point. I am. Yeah, right. You know, like it does feel like they kind of have to get it done.

You know, the NHL for so long here has been. this like parody filled league because of the flat salary cap and no one can spend anything and it just it's been really hard does it not feel like we're on the verge of that changing like we're going to turn into another sport the salary cap ceilings 104 million next year and by most accounts i know ellen walsh had been tweeting about it that it's probably deflated like it should be higher than that by a decent amount so as that happens we have connor mac david with two years left on his deal and maybe not happy matthews same boat brady kachuk rumors connor hellabuck rumors Does it not be...

Quinn Hughes, too, who's not... Like his contract's coming up here soon, too. Doesn't it feel like the league's about to get different? I mean, I would say, yes, if we weren't having this conversation so many times over the last few years, right? I think we all looked at this free agent class that is already gone, and it's not July 1st.

This is like the biggest one ever. All these guys that were supposed to be, like, the big names, they all signed for long term with their own team. Caprice, Connor, I'm sorry, McDavid. Like, they're all off the border. Right? But the four guys that just... are not staying where they're at.

No? Are they? All four? Yeah, maybe not. Who's to say, right? Like, this is a thing. We are. It's a radio show. Yeah.

You have to have a take, right? You can't have a radio show without having a fair of take on it. No, I just think that we have for so many years thought this would be the moment. The cap is going up. Look at the free agent class. Maybe the stars are going to take control and say, that's it.

I'm done with my team and I want to pick my future. Everyone's going to have more space. Everyone has more options. And then it just doesn't. doesn't happen. Even this year at the deadline, it's like, okay, you can't acquire your players in free agency. Your agency is dead. So you better get creative. We're going to see big trades at the deadline. And then we don't see the big trades at the deadline. So I'm not holding my breath, just knowing the league tendencies. Do I think that would be fun and exciting? Absolutely. Do I

think that we could have a little bit more player movement in this league? And it would be nice to see players use their leverage a little bit more? Absolutely. Like if Connor McDavid says, I'm done with Edmonton and no one would be able to blame him. And he picks his own path. Could that have a domino effect? Absolutely. But it just feels like it doesn't happen in this sport. And you know, who's to say if that ever changes? Yeah, you mentioned the trade deadline.

And something that we haven't like mentioned is I think that when we're talking about the salary cap and the playoffs, I think that totally like ruined the trade deadline because nobody can take any risk and like, you know, do the LTIR thing. But have we like had a conversation once about them putting somebody in the press box? Like it has been irrelevant. No team can feasibly be over it. Yeah. It was just like it doesn't, I was picturing that being way more of a conversation coming into this. But to mention the thing about the deadline, I think that rule kind of ruins the deadline.

Because so many teams are close to. That and the 50% retention. Yeah. That was the killer, right? Because if you wanted to trade someone and have, and go double retention, you would have had to have traded them by 1% percent. Why did they get rid of that? I don't really understand what that disincentivizes. Like people trying to make moves.

People love trades. Yeah. I don't know. Having teams having dead cap. It's like we're not worried about Arizona doing it anymore. It's a new era. now, you know, it's in Utah and ownership's not doing it there. So why, why have this rule now?

I think I like to see how teams leverage their cap space. And if you don't want teams to stay at the bottom forever, then give them a way to collect more assets so they can get better, right? If you take that away from a team like the Blackhawks or sharks, the sharks have used that honestly better than anyone. You think of how they, you know, all these reclamation projects, they're getting first round picks for players like Granlin and CC. And yes, it was spaced out.

It wasn't like they took them. They had them for a day. They flipped them. But still, like, just to have that option, maybe we'll see it. more in the summer. Maybe we'll see those trades happen on June 15th so then you can wait that timeline and then make your move. But it still is going to, you know, then you're going to have conversations of who pays for this player's signing bonus. And now do you need, you know, something back in return to cover that if they're through there on July 1st. And that is going to

limit player movement, I think, more than the other rule. Well, the sharks are going to have to pay McLean celebrate $55 million a year here soon. So that's going to hurt their caps. I mean, what's Connor Padard going to get? Conor Bidard is legitimately he could get, I don't know, 15, 60, 90. He's eligible. this summer, right? Yes. Yeah. Yes.

They should give him, somebody should give him the offer sheet. Chica. There's an article in the athletic, which I believe said that he could get

Carrille Caprizo of money. Oh, yeah. I, uh, I wrote that one. Oh, congratulations. It was wonderful. I read it today. There you go.

Yeah, like his market value was higher. We originally looked at November while he was still like popping off offensively and scoring a ton of goals and the market value was a bit higher

than it is right now because his numbers came down to Earth a little bit, but could he push for 13 million? at this point. Like, absolutely. I don't think he's going to get to that 15, 16, 17 million.

Right. Happen for RFAs ever, right? They never make up to their market value. Well, listen. Great stuff. Yeah, we really appreciate you coming on today. No one's doing it better than you, Shannon. Enjoy all your work.

Thanks for your time. Thanks for having me. That's Shana Goldman, National Hockey Writer at the Athletic and the Too Many Men podcast. Yeah, I mean, so. By the way, if Kim was here, you'd be mad about the Bedard money thing. For sure.

I mean, he's never from day one. He's not a team bed team. Remember he's like, he's like, the shifts are too long. We had his first, no, his debut. We came in the next day and we're like, it's his debut. He played 21 minutes, 82 times. How long were his shifts? Yeah.

So the contracting is fascinating with him. Could somebody just be like, hey, here's, what's the max now? I saw it was 20 million? Yeah, you could get 20 million a year conceivably. Chika, are you listening? Do Connor Bedard? Here's $20 million for however many years. Chicago matches.

Okay. You're hamstringing an opponent. So, yeah, if you're competitive, I don't hate what you're talking about. All these, I mean, everybody tiptoes. He said he's not here to make friends. He's not part of the old boys club. Like, just do it. Do it.

I mean, but neither is the other Kyle over there either. He's a young guy. Jason, yeah. Yeah, so. All he's got to do. Listen, I don't know anything about Kyle and I see, I see his interviews and I really like him. Yeah, I saw him do, like one where he was talking about the weather. He got asked on the street.

Yeah. Like he's a super relaxed sort of. normal seeming dude. Uh-huh. But it is tough to watch a guy just the team be bad so many years in a row and be like, he's got it. Another contract, sir. Yeah, yeah.

And the extension is like being bad, I could do that. I can make a team bad. Time to. Let's see if you can do that direction. Game time? Yeah. It's game time. Presented by Bet 365.

An official partner of the NHL must be a team plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. All right. A couple games on the ice tonight, uh, including the Montreal, Canadians and the Buffalo Sabres.

Surprised by this line. Let me guess. Yeah, go for it. We're in Buffalo. In Buffalo? Buffalo won the division. There's more HAB fans betting in Canada, and that's going to minus 110 both sides. No, it's not. Canadians are underdogs. Plus 115 on the money line. Buffalo Sabers minus 135. So even with the back against the wall here, well,

I guess not back against the wall. It's got to get a split there. but plus 115's a surprising number. I thought they would do that a little closer. You could do worse. You could do worse than that. I'm in on... And the other game is minus 110 on both sides of the money line. The Ducks and the Golden Knights in Anaheim for the first time

wearing their putrid orange jerseys. It's sad that they can't win the cup legally in those. You can't win the cup with us. No, the hockey gods don't let it. They just, they're like, sorry. Just put on the purple. The oilers for years, they were doing the... Yeah, put on the eggplant.

It's true purple. They're so nice. There's no purple in the league. I remember when the Islanders went to like an orange dark. And I was like, well, just we can't win now until those are done. I remember that. And the last thing I'll bring up, the Toronto Blue Jays return home for a big homestand, hosting the L.A. Angels of Anaheim who are not great.

So all they have to win every game from now to the year, right? If they win every single game from now to the end of the year, they might be able to catch the Yankees. They are minus 150 favorites. Dylan Cease on the bump at the Rogers Center. I heard that there was a lineup for the Trey U Savage old school, like the black jersey that people started at like 1230. And my response to that is maybe time for a job. Need one job.

Maybe a job. Somewhere to be. Okay. That was game time. Presented by Bet365. An official partner of the NHL must be 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly.

And a reminder, this hour of Real Kipperman Born is brought to you by Bet365. All right. Great job, Sammy. a great job from Shana. Yeah, last reminder, text us 595.90. When we come back from this break, we're going to talk to you. Hey, it's Matt Markeese. And I'm Mike Futa.

We're discussing the top stories of the day across the NHL and the hockey world. Weekdays at noon. It's the fan hockey show on Sportsnet 590, the fan, and wherever you get your podcast. Welcome back to Real Kipper and Born. Sammy McKee over to you. What am I doing here? Sorry, my bad. I get my sheet here.

I was reading a lot of texts. Oh, yeah. It's time to talk about our. I got to tell you, before I get to Accura, I'm wearing the DJ Jazzy Jeff headphones. Yep. And they're thrown off my equilibrium. It's so hot. It's like I'm wearing two.

Thermal earmuffs. Halfway through that Shane interview, I'm like, am I going to faint? Brutal. Anyways, time now for the Accura performance matchup, the 2026, Accura MDX, precisely premium. Montreal Canadiens in Buffalo Game 2 tonight on SportsNet and CBC 7 p.m. The two youngest teams in the 2026 Stanley Cup playoffs

are going head to head and it lived up to the billing in game one. All six goal scorers were in their 20s. Really? And Zach Benson, who will celebrate his 21st birthday by playing game 4 on May 12th, sparked Buffalo's offense with two first period assists. The Sabres will have a shot at a 2-0 series lead and advantageage they have held

in each of their past two trips to the second round, 2007 and 2006. You know, I didn't call Zach Benson dumb yesterday. I highlighted that Tage Thompson had called him dumb. And you got, people got mad at you for saying that? Well, vaguely. And then also we commented, or I commented on the press conference where he kind of spaced out a bit. There's an article, also in The Athletic today, about how Zach Benson is like the Sabre's smartest player. Like, he felt like an immediate rebuttal to the truth.

So this guy is apparently, we'll give him his shout out. He is apparently hockey IQ smart, wily hockey player, and he's a lot of fun to watch. So Zach Benson. You said there can become the third player in Sabres history to record multiple points in three straight playoff games. He would join Dale Howerchuk and Miro Shlav Satan. Oh my.

I love that jersey. Satan 81. It's really tough to be. You know, when I went to Islander's training camp, we took the, like a private jet sort of thing to Moncton for the training camp and Miro had a silver Mercedes

and he drove it to the foot of the plane and just left it there. Got on the plane. I don't know, maybe someone was waiting for it or whatever. Like our boy Shane O'Brien would say, that's National League. National League. I just remember like wherever I had been coming from

at that point, I probably played at college or whatever. I'd just be like, what is that life? You're driving your Toyota Tursel? I actually co-owned. Geo-Tracker soft top that I bought for $500. So I was pretty impressed with the whole. Oh, that's incredible. Lane Hudson, nine assists and 13 games played can become the second fastest Canadian player

to record 10 career assists behind only Elmer Locke. I remember him. What years Elmer Lock? 1947. Okay. That sounds really accurate to me. And that was the Accura performance matchup, the 2026 Accura MDX, precisely premium. All right.

Thank you. All right. Okay. Let's do some text. It's text time. Let's see what we got here. Happy Friday, guys. This is Maurice from Orangeville.

Right now, it looks like Carolina is a steamroller. They don't seem to have any superstars, but boy, what a team performance. I just feel, you know, when they won the cup in 2006, similar. People were mad about it because they didn't have the superstars. And it's not impossible. It's like the only sport. In the NBA, maybe you could say,

The Raptor still had Kauai. Like, I just, this feels like one of the only sports where your best player can be the 25th best player in the league and still win. And Carolina's doing it again. I got admission. They don't do it for me. Yeah, you know, it's funny. This year they do for me. It's funny.

I just find it to be like, like I've said to you, Corsi Slop hockey. Like, it's just all the same guy. They're all flying around. Stanky's two foot nine. I know. They're all two foot nine except Svetchnikov and stall. They all look exactly the same. They're all flying as like, is that Jackson Blake or Taylor Hall?

They're all just like the same size. Work hard, forecheck. I just, I don't find it an aesthetically pleasing style of it. I just know if I'm a Winnipeg Jets fan watching them, I find it aesthetically painful watching Nikolai Eilers. He's their guy. He's the exact guy. He flies and he carries the puck and it's just. I'll give you Jarvis, Blake, Eilers, they all kind of, they move.

They just fly around. I don't know. I feel guilty saying it because they're obviously a wagon in the Frederick. Andrew Kanderson thing's killing me, like I said. You know what's on, that Kandre Miller's pickup still is. Fantastic. Unbelievable. He's the definition of Rangie.

Yeah, he is. And like, for the Rangers, what happened there? He's not old. Yeah, I don't know. Kippur kind of alluded to them. It was a bit of a, you know, I don't know. I can't really remember what happened, but I don't remember it being like the smoothest exit, but not sure.

Tom Gazzola, I think of Edmonton coverage, right? Yes, very good. mentioned how Noblock is likely done in Edmonton could cause of disconnect with management. Any thoughts on the Knoblock tenure and replacements? I just think it's really tough to have a superstar cup expectant team and to give them a rookie coach. And we saw Sheldon Keefe, who I am a huge fan of,

and we saw Chris Knoblock in Edmonton, that these guys are both excellent, excellent coaches. But if you ask them, are you a better coach today then when you first came into the league, they'll tell you yes. They have learned things that they didn't know when they came in. And so I think it's really tough to say, boy, you had a guy learning on the job at the time

when it was time to get it across the finish line. Yep. I just, they were so close. It almost worked. It did almost work. They were tied in game seven of the Stanley Cup final one-one. After Cody Cici made a high-head saucer pass to Matthias Yanmark who scored a goal.

Oh, yeah. Right? Like they were right there. They were in it. McDavid had a puck on the top of the blue paint, cut it to the back end. He didn't have it. He didn't get it in time.

It's just hard to say that like it didn't work. No, you're right. It did work. And that's even with Sheldon's tenure at the Leafs. It's like they were very good. They were good. But they didn't win any. Like, you can't.

You're right. Oilers didn't win anything. But they got, they won a conference. Multiple conferences. Game six and game seven, although it was kind of a fake game sex last year. They got steam rolled more.

than it seemed, I think, in that series. I just, I think they're just shouting out for the Cassidy. I don't want it to happen because I think he'd be a great coach for the least where they're at, too. But they are just the Cassidy thing. Cooper was interesting with them too, with the McDavid connection or whatever. If he was not going to be back, I thought that'd be interesting. But Cassidy and him, it just seems like it'd sign that contract here soon. The Knoblock complaints would be just he's an uninspiring, like not a motivator type guy.

But I also think that that room is Connor's room. And McDavid is a. motivated high energy, high-strung guy at times. And maybe Nob-Lock was good. You know, maybe he was a leveling factor. And that's part of what helped them. It's tough to go back and re-rack it and say, how would it have gone with Coach XYZ?

Like you said, they won an awful lot with Knob-Lock there. Tough to say he did a bad job, but was he the right guy? He didn't win the cup. This is from, no name, unfortunately. Well, they're chirping of me, so that makes sense. Sammy needs to watch the oil. There's more.

Bushard, maybe the bottom 20 defensively in the league. Maybe when Bush is a leaf, he will see it. Nope. So while we were talking to Shane, while we were talking to, and I resent that, by the way, by far the team I watch the most outside of the lease is the Oilers.

Same. Not even close. Yep. The last three Norris trophy winners, I was looking at it, have all been the highest scoring guys in the league. Yeah. Every year.

It's been, it's been Kail McCarr, it's been Quinn Hughes, it's been Carlson, Yosi, all these guys. I'm not saying he needs to win it, but damn he needs to be nominated. He needs to be nominated. I know he's not perfect defensively.

I get it. I've made all my points, but like, we reward high scoring defensemen. Yeah. It's been rewarded every year. I said earlier in the show when talking about Gavin McKenna, we slough off points. Like, it's like. Nothing. Ah, well, it gets points, but, and it's like, you know how hard it is to get points?

Mm-hmm. Like, some of the guys you think are unbelievable. We just talked about Nikolai Eilers. I don't know if he ever scored more than 65 points in his career. No. You know, for Bouchard to have 95 or whatever. You know, it's like, it's really hard to do that. Oh, he plays with McDavid and Drysettle.

Those guys benefit from having him too. Totally. And I'm not saying he's better than Kail McCar or Quinn Hughes or Yosey or those guys, but he scored as much as those guys. It would be very interesting. This is my favorite way to...

So if he scored five more points, would he have been nominated because he got 100 points? I actually think that that matters. Not that I think it matters, but I think it matters in voting. Yeah, yeah. Continue. I think a fascinating way to look at players

and the perception of them is put them all in a pile like sticks when we pick our shooting games and then have the GMs draft them. Who, you know, whose season would you have won? Wanted. Would you draft that Bouchard season to build your team around, this guy's, whatever.

You're right. Bouchard, it's a high pick. 95 points out of my, out of my D-Men? Okay, that might be the first season I grab out of the pile. So I get your point. It's a learning curve for young guys in the playoffs. Marner, Matthews, Neelander all went through it. Suzuki, Cofield, Slavkowski are now doing the same.

Hopefully they can adjust. It may mean separate them up to split coverage, question mark. Part of, I hope that, I mean, I hope they figure it out better. Part of the frustration. with the Leaf stuff was that the first four or five playoff runs was sold as learning experience. Learning.

I mean, they still brought up learning like last year. Yeah. Like, oh, learning lessons, learning lessons and like they clearly have a learning disability as a franchise. None of it was sticking. I think the lesson that the Leafs we thought they would take away is at some point you have to be hard. You know, you just have to,

even the good players have to go to the tough spots and I don't know that we ever Like Mitch Marner's never going to do that I understand he's getting some points this year But he's never going to go to those places It even strengthened no So you just It just never got learned

No it didn't So I don't know is Cole Cawfield You want him to play different than he played all year Probably not no You just want him to start entering the puck Into the net That's what you want him to do If you're if you're

He just needs one to Yeah a couple to go He'll start feeling better Hi guys since we're in the Alberta area With your discussion about Edmonton can you please provide your thoughts on Huska as Calgary's coach? I think he's got to go. I just don't think he's getting it.

I mean, I don't pouring over the Huska taste. Like, what do you want them to do? Team reeks. Like, they reeked. They were trying to be bad this year. They got inexplicably hot for a couple minutes there. That probably cost them the sixth overall pick. Like, sure, get another guy in there to, like, teach them to be good

when they're going to be good in three or four years. Like, I don't know. You know, it's having that strong about Huska opinion. It's the Kyle Davidson conversation. Yes. Where it's like the team has not wanted to have success, but Huska is perfect. He's done a perfect job for them.

He's a culture guy and the flames have a culture. I don't think you can say there's a harder worker team in the NHL. The veteran guys like him. They play the right way. I think he's a perfect coach for where they're at. I still think he'd be a great coach if they were good. I just, if you hand John Cooper a top line with Joel Farabee and Blake Coleman, no.

He's not winning. No, you're not winning. He's only so. You can influence a team, three wins, four wins, five, wins, six wins over a season, not 20. So I think Huska does a great job. What else do you expect from that roster right now? By the way, Ryan Strom is on the Calgary Flames, and he's been on the Sportsnet panel the past. I was scared watching him.

I was like, oh, crap. He's really good. I was like, oh, crap. I'm like, we're screwed. Oh, yeah. No, he was really good. You know, eventually. Real Kipper and Strom.

He kind of has a good ring to it. When you have to do it for a while, eventually, you know, you have to take, you know, kind of be a little bit negative at times and whatever. He did such a good job of threading the needle of doing analysis and whatever and not being, I don't know, he just seemed like a natural. And it was nice to see him and BX to go back and forth on stuff. Yep. Great job by Ryan Strom.

Sad Canucks fan here. My girlfriend's mom is an Oilers fan who beat us in round two in 2024. Her dad is a diehard leaf fan with their basement being completely decked out in Leafs memorabilia. Safe to say, I'm not going to the last. their house for a couple of weeks. Oh, man. Sorry, brother. Yeah.

You know, that's part of, like, living in Canada where you just have to, sometimes you just have to run into a fan of a different team and they just have something on you and you just have to be like, well, you know, a lot of people in Toronto are talking about being a Toronto fan like it's this awful thing. Canucks fans, when at the end of the league? 1970, somewhere other than there. What's it been? You're going to the finals twice in loss.

It's swept by the I owners and heartbroken by Kipper. Yep, Keper got them. And otherwise, it's just been like, flare-ups of decency. The BX team was very good. Kippa got them. Kippa got them. Yeah, it was all Kip.

Wasn't messy and Leach and Graves. But, like, the Sedean years were very good. They were fun. The Nazland and Bertuzi years were good. Yeah, yeah. But it's been tough. For sure. There's a great Leafs question right at the end of our show.

If Matthews decides to leave the team, who will be the next captain? Oh, my God. I got an answer. Back to J.T. Gavin McKenna. Oh. You don't mean that for a second.

I hope he's listening so that he knows at the Toronto fans love him. You know, my buddy, Jeff, he's at a bachelor party this weekend. And he gives me a call from the beach. They're like up in the Grand Bend or somewhere. Like, I know, you know, not a hot beach, but all the guys there have a couple drinks. And they're, they all got the Matthews trades. And they're all thrown around who says no. Who says no?

The one they pitched at me, you know, 13 coronas in was. McDavid to the Leafs. Okay, yeah, long, great start. Matthews to the Sharks. Yeah. And from the Sharks to Edmonton, some Misa Dickinson, a first. The first over,

the least first overall? Is that involved in there? No, no. Oh, my God. Matthew's out McDavid in. I think you might have to throw the first in. Oh, throw him the first in now? Yeah, maybe.

You talk me into it. Sammy, I'm at a bar in Ottawa, and they are not happy with the least getting the number one pick. Would love your comments. Can see you. but not hear you guys. So give me a thumbs up to discuss Clay from Allison. Multiple camera angles, sorry.

I love this because people are always like, oh, I see you on the time at the bar. Like, yeah, great. We are the number one soundless bar show in the world. Yeah. That's why we're the face on mute and people go, do I know you? Why do I know you from?

Where do I know you from? I'm on mutant. Whenever I go into like a pub or whatever, where like the bartender wouldn't just maybe not be a fan or whatever, but a lot of times I'll sit down. at the pub and they'll look at me and they'll be like Yeah, how do I know? And I'm like, well, I'm probably up there with no sound for an hour.

I stare at you while you were all that long. Anyways, that's amazing. All right. What do we got on tap tonight? You got two games. You got Montreal, Buffalo at 9 o'clock. And then Vegas, Anaheim at 9.30. Let's do scores.

I think the habiton get back into the series tonight. I think they're going to win three or four to one. And I think that the Anaheim ducks are going to go. going to win tonight and they're going to go up to one in that series it will be interesting to know if anaheim can find a way to put Vegas they fly but they fly they fly they fly they just they ducks fly together they fly they're so fast and i just think like i said yesterday it's kind of Tampa Montreal west to me yeah two ships passing the night kind of thing two two very good series the the Montreal one i feel like must win game for them you go down to nothing you know it's not like

you know you can't win four games against buffalo but if you got to do it over a span of five it's starts to get real tough. And you want to go back to that building with the, you know, that split and the difference in the field. I mean, the crowd will be electric regardless. But if you win tonight, going back there with the split, it'll just be such a better environment for the fan. So I think Montreal is going to win tonight.

I really do. I thought they were great in the second half of that game. Yeah, Dobson finding a stride a little bit. I know, read a little bit about Cole Cawfield and Marty St. Louis and their relationship and how this is, it's been built to side of kind of sort of overcome these hardships. And that's where they're at. I also think Nick Suzuki, if you're going to be the dude, you know, one of the most beautiful sweaters in the league and he got the sea and, you know,

you need a game. Yeah. Out of him. He scored in game seven. Scored in game one. Yeah. This is what I mean. Listen,

I'm defending a hab that used to play for the on sound attack. It's very hard for me. I just wish you we had played for Vegas this whole career, so I could have enjoyed them. Yeah. But I think you'll have a big night tonight. Habs are going to win. Yeah, Habs looking good. Hopefully get it done there.

Again, Anaheim I'm going to take as well. on board with you there. A big thank you. On three days. On three days. Kipper's back Monday. I know. We're looking for it.

Kipper is back. He did not. He's not doing anything sneaky. No, he's just, he'll be here. He's away. He'll be back on Monday. I'm looking forward to it.

Yep. Shane of Goldman joined us today and thank you very much to her for her time. And a big thank you to Carolyn Cameron, who was delightful to have on the program. Spend a little time with us.

She's a pro.