Real Kyper & Bourne - Around the Second Round with Jody Shelley

Episode Date: May 12, 2025

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne welcome in Jody Shelley (7:19) – former NHLer and current TNT hockey analyst to share his thoughts on the feeling of the 'dog days' in the Stanley Cup Playoffs, his assessment of Washington Capitals vs. Carolina Hurricanes, how long of a leash Frederik Andersen has, why he's not concerned about the Maple Leafs dropping two straight games in Florida, and if the Edmonton Oilers have enough defence to stretch their post-season run. Then, Nick, Justin and Sam McKee discuss Nicolas Roy not receiving a suspension for his cross-check on Trent Frederic, Max Domi's fine after boarding Aleksander Barkov, and the controversial goal call on Connor Hellebuyck.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

It's the it's the national hour on the Real Kipper and Bourne show we are live on 650 in Vancouver Sportsnet 960 in Calgary this hour of Real Kipper and Bourne brought to you by bet 365. In a few minutes we'll welcome in Jody Shelley former NHL are now covering NHL Stanley Cup playoffs for TNT get into a ton including like a playoffs for TNT. Get into a ton, including Edmonton and Vegas, where we expect changes to the Edmonton Oilers lineup. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. You know, it's hotly contested playoff time when we talk just as much during the break about the game. It's like the mics went off and it was five straight minutes of just continued conversation.

We didn't stop. Yeah, maybe more language, a little more language involved. Um, yeah, crazy weekend. We saw Florida Panthers get right back in the series and we also saw Vegas get right back in the series and we also saw Vegas get right back in their series on what was just one of the craziest finishes to a 60 minute game in Stanley Cup playoffs that I can ever remember. I don't even know what to say.

Here we go. Look at the clock. 3-2. I love Skinner being aggressive out pushing what else you know no no no no no good Skinner they're pushing on hold on not good Skinner but I don't mind him being like selling out on the save cuz but yeah just stay in the net maybe where's where's the right leg to come out why why is it tucked in I thought you just like kind of coming out to cut out the angle. There's no time left in the clock. But just get your right leg out and the puck never comes

through the crease. Now to be clear, it's not good. They scored on a one on three with seconds left. Ah, that's tough. It's probably going wide, far side. If I can kind of remember, I think I think the puck was behind Vegas' net with about 11 seconds to go. Like, it's crazy. And I give Darnell Nurse full credit,

because the blue line up until the last game had really done a nice job you know they're they between nurse and Bouchard they've really limited their their mistakes mm-hmm but when there's a dozen seconds and the puck is 200 feet away yeah And I and you watch William Carlson on a one on three like Darnell there's not a there should be no chance that you give up the blue line to him and he gets a free pass to go by you and get the puck first in the corner. I'm sorry but like for him to go out there and even have an opportunity at a hoper and that's all throwing the puck first in the corner. I'm sorry, but for him to go out there and even have an opportunity at a hoper, and that's all throwing the puck

in the middle of the ice was, is just a hoper. And by then he's caught, he's trying to slide out for a block shot, and it was just a disaster. But the easy access for William Carlson to get over the blue line was a big problem. You know, I know that this, you know, the a lot has gone the Oilers way here in this series. It feels like they have the upper hand.

So, you know, another game and Edmonton felt like but that that goal really changes how you feel about this. You see the right leg when I'm talking about? Yes, I do. You're right. He shuffled, he shuffled and then he caught his pad inside. I don't think any Edmonton Oilere fan wants to hear in defense of Stu Skinner.

I don't think you should do it. The game is over! Like he's coming out there like there's one second left on the clock he's trying to attack him, he thinks the horn's gonna go off. To me it's like he can be a bubble hockey track goalie. I don't know, it's just the game is over. Sure should be. God. It's just the game is over but should be God that's a heartbreaker and they're up to one and

No block wants to make some changes Kasperi Kapanen is coming in for Victor Arvidsson Arvidsson getting a healthy scratch treatment I love the thought that I love the thought that we need 23 guys to win a Stanley Cup. We need 24, whatever we have right now. And if there's guys that maybe have lost a little bit of energy, it's a great tool for coach to have that we believe in 23 of us, not just the guys that played last game. Stanley Cup playoffs started, I want to say, almost exactly four weeks ago today. And now is about the time when you would say the big rosters, the deeper teams start to

have some advantage. The Leafs have 14 forwards, they have Camp and Robertson not in. Philip Myers on D, that guy they can use. You know, Edmonton is the same way. They have some guys who can come in and out of the lineup so Not every team can do that Nice to take advantage of that Florida just flipped their entire fourth line scored the game winner on Friday night did you hear the exit talking about how like

It's something I never thought was actually a thing but the dog days of the playoffs Where like you're in the middle of the the middle of the second round? It's really start it was interesting to hear that yeah You'd never think that you think every game is just such a long road Yeah to get like think about the least of one six games. How many more you gotta get like oh It's never heard that talk in my life never heard it ever. I'm surprised by that Yeah, yeah, so you don't agree with Kevin Were you surprised by that? Yeah.

Yeah? So you don't agree with Kevin? No, no, he has a right to feel the way he feels. I just don't ever recall, I played like, I don't know, maybe 36, 38 NHL playoff games in my career. I don't ever recall one of them. And I went to a conference final. Never have I ever heard that type of talk.

Yeah. But I mean, he has a right to feel that way. I can't take away the way he could feel. And he went to a Stanley Cup finally. He went to a game seven. They fell short, unfortunately. I do wonder too. I think part of the reason why he could maybe look back

is because maybe he lost too. Yeah. Like there's no reward for going that far and then losing a Stanley Cup. I think on the other hand, you know, it depends your role and you know, like I doubt guys like who are excited to get out there and be energy guys and get 10 minutes or whatever

are the same as Marner who's got to play 23 a night for all that time. I'm sure there's different levels of energy that are required for those jobs. And it's also the emotional roller coaster of, this is great and this really sucks right now. So it's easy when you've won two in a row and when you lose two in a row, it usually falls down

back on those guys that you're talking about who are making a, who are paying the price with 23 minutes a night. So it is physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually draining this time of year. And it's a, it's all about the guys that are left standing. All right. Jody Shelley joins us now doing a terrific job covering the Stanley Cup Playoffs Jody, how are you pal? I'm great. How are you guys doing? Can you hear me? I'm in a stairwell here. Oh, you're doing great. You look great. Yeah, yeah, you know I can't smell you but I'm sure there's a cologne in there somewhere Not bad, not bad.

Alright, just playing off of Kevin B X's comments on sometimes there there could be a certain window where? Maybe guys feel a little drained during this run Are you do you buy into it you see it can you feel it or? Because it is it is a true Marathon and a sprint all at the same time this time of year, isn't it? a true marathon and a sprint all at the same time this time of year, isn't it? Yeah, you can feel it. You can sense it with some players. I think it's situational, like you said, a win, a goal, a segment of a game to feel good about. I thought the other night when I did the Washington game, they were energized in

the first period. They were playing their game. They were feeling, everyone felt important. They were on the same page and then the third period trying to chase the Carolina Hurricanes they looked defeated they looked frustrated but then yesterday was a day off they regrouped they watched some hockey they had a team meal today they walk in the building I sense that they have it they have their energy back but it's interesting to see how long what can go right in this game tonight like any game for these guys to get going. OVs got to get going. You know, there's, I think when a player like that isn't

going, it takes another bit of energy out of the team. When your good guys are feeling good and you feel like you have that team play going, that's where you get your energy I think this time of year. So we've talked quite a bit, there's a Canadian team in three of the remaining four series, so we've talked a lot about them. We haven't talked a lot about this Washington Carolina series and I'd love to you know hear some some focus on it. How do you handicap the rest of this series, Carolina up two to one? What's the vibe in that one? It's like everything, it's razor thin and there's a team in Carolina who is probably the easiest team to scout against

because you know what they're doing. Everyone in the league, and Spencer Carvery said, it's the easiest pre-scout in the league for any coach because you know exactly how they're gonna play the game. They're hard, they're in your face. It's give up the puck and get it back with speed. It's overwhelmed. And then you have Washington and you almost feel like Carolina is playing their game to

keep Washington off their game. You know what I mean? Like Washington wants to go. They want to play up tempo. They want to have the puck. They want to drive it. They don't have the puck in this series. And the first game, the shot attempts were talked about. It was so lopsided one way, but still Washington could have came to Carolina up to nothing because it's still that game where the goalies are making key saves at a key time. The power play is or isn't clicking at a key time. The penalty kill has been doing well. And on last game momentum shifted with a bump on Tom Wilson. The crowd here gets into it. They score a goal right away and then Washington was on their heels.

So the skill of Washington against the game plan of Carolina hasn't been very good right so far. Washington's only played one period where they feel like they've got to their game. And I think this might be a series if they are going to win, they might have to be satisfied not getting to their game, meaning be patient when you're down one, you know what I mean? Even when you're up one you still have to realize there's no time and space There's going to be surges and you have to stick with what you are Jody as far as uh, the goaltending is concerned here you know a lot of us waited for carolina to go out there and trade for goalie and

They they never did and is it is it based on that predictability of the way Carolina plays is the main reason why that, you know, if we do what we're supposed to do from our blue line and our forwards, then you don't really need a six or $8 million goalie. I mean, Freddie Anderson played, he kept his team in at the first period of the last game. But the problem with Freddie, you don't know when he's going to be out again.

And that's a lot of angst, if you will, because when he's in, he's good. They don't spend money on goalies here. They just don't. And the Kochekoff has shown signs of being able to carry it. Their defensive play, it's interesting. When it breaks down, it really breaks down. When they're on the same page, they're hard to play against. They're churning. They're plunging down the walls. As a player, you look at it and you think, boy, you go shift after shift and you feel like maybe you should just go out and go wall and back wall and back wall and back and come off because it

feels like that's you're not getting anything done out there. So I think when they're on there they're really good but I think when you have puck possession against them and you break them down they do need the goaltending. I think they need the goaltending because you look at any series when that one goal goes in with this rager thin margin, that's when everything shifts and that's when things start to go the other way, the opposite of what you want. So it'll be interesting to see if Freddie can stay in the series and play like he did last game in the first period. They're going to make a lot more noise than what people probably think right now,

but if it goes the other way, this could create some problems. Well, keep it in the East. The winner of that series at the winner of Florida, Toronto That's all tied up at two Florida looking like the Stanley Cup champion that we have seen them be The last couple of games does that kind of leave you in a spot where you feel like Florida's gonna find a way through I I really like Toronto. I I I mean, I think we all go to that because of the defending Stanley Cup champions. I think they got a big boost from Ekblad getting back. They have size. I think we're going to see what Toronto is made of here. You know,

Wall played really well last night. I think that's a huge factor for the Maple Leafs. They still have guys that need to get going. I think that it's their time. It's their time to make their mark as superstars in the league and the playoffs. You know, was the Marner dialogue coming into this, but now Matthews needs to get going. I think he does. And I think that that's gonna cause a big problem for the Florida Panthers.

I like how they played Bobrovsky in the first game, the first couple of games. They were on top of them. They were bumping them. You know, the crease has got to be taken care of. And he's not the biggest guy, but I think they can wear him down a little bit if they keep going to that net and getting on him.

He seems to have found the top half of the net. It looked like early they were going after the top half of the net that the Maple Leafs were. And I don't think this is not doomsday for Toronto. I think this is going to we're going to see their character and what they can bring here to get back on top of this series. Florida is good. But there's holes there if Toronto can use their speed. And listen, in every series, it happened here the other night. Your opportunities have got to find a way in the back of the net. You know, Spencer Carberry said today, you know,

we got 10 opportunities last time, grade A chances, we know we can get to 13. He's not looking to get to 20. And that's how thin of a margin these games are. So for Toronto, those opportunities have got to go in the net. You're watching and listening to Jody Shelley, covering the National Hockey League playoffs for TNT.

Jody, in terms of overall what you've seen on the officiating, not just obviously Toronto and Florida which we've focused on here, but throughout the league and what's suspendable, what's not suspendable, what's even a five minute major or two minute penalty here. Your overall assessment of, I don't know, the referees letting the boys play? I love when they let the boys play. I mean, I think we all do. I think the players love

it because you kind of know where you're at. You know what I mean? I remember back in the day, like, you'd look at the ref and think, really? Okay, let's go. Like, this is, they're going to let it go tonight. I always have a soft spot for the refs, if you can believe it or not. I think that they're in a tough spot. I think some of these calls, I think all of us now react the same way. Ooh, that was bad. Or was it?

Was it to the head? Is he hurt? Does he have a, you know, we go through the whole process and I think they're doing a good job. I'd hate to see them take players out of series, but I think we should know when a player deserves to be out of the series. You know, I think that that there's a lot of these gray area hits and some surprises that aren't suspended or talked about and some are. And I think for the players like Tom Wilson for example he tells guys heads up before he hits them now and I talked to him about the other day he's

during the regular season and think about this guys Kipper you mean we were trying to run guys over and he before he hits the guy because for his and for them heads up just before he hits him he's not doing it in playoffs, but that's the element. That's how they're playing the game. And he's way too nice. Way too nice. To me, to me, that's like giving your playing partner two foot pots all around and making them putt the one on 18. Like you get to playoffs. He doesn't tell them anymore. No, it's fair game, but he's a massive man. I mean, this guy's bigger than I thought he was. And then it's to protect himself from being suspended and also protecting the other player. But

I agree. He's not being that nice at playoffs, but we'll see. But I love it. I love the big hits. I just, I'd like to see more of that. Cause listen, don't you guys agree? I don't know. Maybe you don't. I talked to Bootsch for this quite a bit. You can't just go out there and play the games this time of year in a seven game series. Something has to happen within the game. And I think the Toronto series, you have so many games within the game. I feel like this series could use a little more where there's, you know, bumping and crashing and maybe take the two minute penalty on the goalie knowing you'll kill it. I love that part of this time of year. I love that part of this time of year. It is a very fun and exciting part. The subplots in Winnipeg, Dallas have been,

Rantanen is ruining everyone in Colorado one shift at a time. And can Connor Halabuck be the guy that we know he can be? It feels like those are the two themes of that series. It's amazing, right? That Dallas got R rat in him. I mean what a nightmare for Colorado. We all know that he comes here to Carolina and now he's in and what he does to the Avalanche

it's he's that's who he is though. That's that's an incredible pickup by Jim Neal to get him and then hella buck you want him to play well. You mean he is the best goalie in the world during the regular season. I was hoping he just hated that building in St. Louis. I was there covering that game, it's raucous, they're on top of them.

And some buildings you go into, you just feel like, oh, let's just get this over with. I was hoping it was that for him. I just sense that there's a lot of pressure around him personally and his teammates. They genuinely want him to play well. They want him to have that feeling of success on the road that he has at home. And right now, I don't think we're sold yet. We're still having that discussion. So hopefully it doesn't get too late here this early on

Halliburke and he keeps that team alive. The kicked in goal, what are your overall thoughts on it? We know how obviously the... That's a goal. I mean, to me that's a goal. Yeah. Because Halibuck played the puck. You know, they took so long to review it, but once Halibuck plays the puck, it's a different

play. So to me it's a goal and once they show that last angle of him swiping at it, the puck wasn't even going towards the net. And I said this today to a couple of guys, don't you think on that rule, like a seven-year-old kid should be able to tell you if it's a kick or not? Like it has to be that distinct, you know, where you could lay it there and be like, was that a kick or not? When we start breaking it down, was it a kick? Was it not? I think it should be very clear if was that a kick or not? When we start breaking it down, was it a kick? I think it should be very clear. If it's a kick into the net, no goal, but if that when Hellebuck played it, that's a goal. Yeah, it's funny. I saw someone saying that like when a player shoots the puck in their own net, the goal goes to the person who last touched on the other team, but then there's

no assists, but there's assists on the goal. So for me, I agree with you. It's put in by Hellebuck, but at that point, you just need to cut the assists out and make it clear what happened there. That's a known goal. All right. So we'll take you to the other Canadian city. The Edmonton Oilers are in tough thanks to a goal with, I don't know, 0.4 seconds left, I think it was. Was that one of the more insane playoff finishes you've seen or what? I thought the Jets game was insane I thought there that that goal they scored at the end of regulation was insanity and and that was another level of playing to the end of the game and

Even the way Skinner played that you're thinking he's just thinking okay This game is over just kind of swim out there and block this. And it ends up in the net. So it's been the story of the playoffs. And I think a lot of teams understand, like, we're not out of this. Even when Winnipeg was down in St. Louis, they were down and they kept battling back. It's like, these teams realize three goals isn't too much. Anything can happen.

And to me, it all goes back to goaltending. You know what I mean? I mean Skinner's in that spot, he comes in, that goal goes in. It's like, oh boy, now what's the dialogue in Edmundon? So if they can sure that up again and figure out how to get a goalie to go in there for six games and go on a streak, hey, they're going to have to at this point. But I love how unpredictable and wild this has been so far. You think it's safe at this point of but I love how unpredictable and wild this has been so far. You think it's safe at this point

of the Stanley Cup playoffs that we know for sure a goalie's not gonna win the Kahn-Smith here? Yeah. I've never seen so many bounces, weird bounces in my life. Yeah, it depends on who emerges. I mean, Wall could do it right now. I mean, the way he's played recently. So I think it's safe to say with Branton still doing its thing and everything going on, there's different heroes in every market, but geez, the goalies are in tough right now.

Okay, they still have time. Yeah, they have time. Yeah, I think they'll be okay. So do you think with a team like the Oilers like can it can they Continue to have success with that D core no Ekholm. It is surprising I think at least to me that they handled the Kings with relative ease after a tough couple of first games But if you do they have enough defense to finish the job here. I Think the key the Kings allowed them to find their game Yeah, you know they they found their game. It wasn't just Connor and Leon.

There was some team play at the end and allowed teams to get footing. And that's what Edmonton got out of the first series. Now, their defense to me, combined with their goaltending, I don't have a lot of confidence in them. I love the Edmonton Oilers. I love those two players together. But when you're playing against them

in a seven game series and I think of a team like Carolina, there's a game plan. And then when I did the Colorado series, it was a game plan against McDay or against McKinnon and McCarr was 80 to 90 percent of the game plan was against those two. So you think about it those two guys in Edmonton there's got to be some frustration with

bad goals bad defensive plays and they are on the bench thinking all right we have to go score two more goals again like we got to do this again that that's a hard way to go all the way in this league. That's a hard way to go all the way in this league. The other thing too is concerning is managing a guy like Darnell nurses minutes too. And if, you know, there's a fine line between 18 to 20 or 20 to 22 or 22 above, right? He was in such a good spot earlier when Atcomb was there. I thought it was finally that that simplicity of his game.

But you're right when it's when it's that many minutes and you when you get to that level you get exposed a little bit more. It's hard on you. It's hard on the team. It's hard on the situation and it's a little unfair to him in some some circumstances. So that's a big loss and that happens with a lot of these teams where the the player that eats some of those minutes is out, someone has to step up, they can do it for a certain amount, maybe a couple of games, but then it always comes through in the end.

Are you surprised, speaking of individuals on that team, Corey Perry is tied for fifth in goals in the playoffs. Isn't that unbelievable? It's crazy to me. And then like to watch that market and to think that he plays with the fastest player in the world, I think there's no way. And I watch, you know, it gives him time when those guys have the puck to get where he needs to get.

And that's such a key in the offensive zone is players that have puck possession and have the attention of everyone else, a guy like Corey Perry doesn't have to be the fastest but he's smart with his timing he understands how to play that position and enables him time to get in there and build a little shack in front of the net or beside the net he understands the value of keeping the play alive and it's so important as a line mate so good for him I mean it's a it's remarkable to hear that he's he's in that category. Just just one more and I'll let you go, Jody, because I know you got a big night ahead of you. But just, you know, when we talk

about a Corey Perry or a Brad Marshad, there there's certain guys that just are in such a comfort zone this time of year. So it's just not about essentially putting the puck in the net, but they really thrive on, I guess we could at times describe a controlled chaos. And there's others that you can just simply watch and sometimes they look like a fish out of water this time of year. Yeah.

But those two guys, those two guys really stand out for me this time of year. And it isn't like you think back to some of the playoff championships and some of the players that have been involved and how they became villains in other markets. Those guys embrace that role, not only against the opposition, but I think the dynamic in the locker room. Like, you know, when you're in the locker room with guys like that, they say something crazy, they're gonna do something crazy. There's just a different element.

It's against the grain, and I love that. I think Torch used to call it personality. You know, it brings a personality. Hartnell used to be like that a little bit, where, you know, he could invite the chaos and take the distraction and draw the power play and laugh at the bench. And then your mind is blowing that you want, just want to grab this guy.

But that's where they thrive. And then they put the puck in the net or they score the big goal. It's remarkable. I mean, there's so much value in those veteran guys that understand that role. And it's so important for the impact of the whole game. And yeah, it's fun to watch.

Games with personality and players like that are so much fun to watch. Great stuff, Jody. We really appreciate your time. Great job finding that, that hallway that you're in. It worked out perfectly. Love that. Thank you very much. Have a great one.

Thanks for having me on. See you guys. Thank you. Thanks. Appreciate your time. Thanks for having me on. See you guys. Thank you. Thanks. Appreciate your time. That is Jody Shelley. Just to touch on what he said, and like a guy like Corey Perry,

like we know Leon and Connor, it's their room, right? But guys will gravitate to Corey Perry just based on his success in comfort zone this time of year. There is, I like- He can drag people in. Yeah, the word personality is interesting. There's a class of maybe a dozen guys in the NHL

who have it, create chaos, drag people in, aren't afraid of the moments, love the attention. Tom Wilson, Brad Marshan, Corey Perry, you can go around, it's a short list, and those guys, nice to have. You always broke my heart. Chuck? When you told me about that they had the choice to, he was dying to be a Leaf.

Spezza or Perry? Was it Spezza? No, it was not Spezza. No, Wayne Simmons. Right. Simmons or Corey Perry. Or Corey Perry. And that was how long ago now?

2020? So we're talking Toronto Maple Leafs had. It was 2020. Kyle Dubas, I think, Corey Perry, you know, Ontario guy out of Londonites, yeah, was all gung ho, but they just went in a different direction. And he's just, He scored 20 this year and five in playoffs.

He's just so good still in front of the net. And he gets to the front of the net, and those two guys get him the puck in front of the net, and he's got patience he's got hands he's got the ability to get there he was so good went to Montreal I think right after that he went on this role yeah I'll give it to you after Anaheim Dallas Montreal Tampa Bay Chicago Edmonton yeah it didn't five teams and so great in Chicago well but it was very good before that.

Yeah, I know he's, you know, it went to the Stanley Cup final in Montreal. And lost every year, yeah, lost every year. Lost in the Cup final with Tampa. Yep. God, he was on Tampa. With Dallas? Yeah, oh yeah, so yeah, yeah.

He lost the Cup final with Dallas too? Yeah, in the bubble. In the bubble, yeah. Three straight Cup final losses. Yeah. No accident. No. How many playoff games have I played?

6,000? No, he's just 224 playoff game he's top 10 to 24. He's top 10. That's a career just driving to the Hall of Fame right now Wow 134 points in the playoff. Yeah, and a lot of that playing on the fourth line and still going strong Yeah, and being a major factor right now in this series Yeah, Corey Perry is 9th.

He turns 40 in three days. Corey Perry is 9th all time in games played. Two ahead of Chris Draper, one behind Glenn Anderson. So he's, I mean, if they go on a run here, he's got a chance to get up into the top five all time. Wow. And I think his 40th birthday is game 6 where the Oilers could move on. Wow.

I went to a 40th birthday party on Saturday. Your friends are hitting that mark, are they? Shout out Jeffy. He's not quite as accomplished as Corey Perry, unfortunately. Yeah, well not maybe, but sorry. Anyways, it's game time. We're set up by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's ever ordinary.

Bet365 must be 19 plus Ontario only please play responsibly I Two games on the ice tonight, which we've been talking about Washington is our huge underdogs against Carolina Hurricanes tonight. They are plus 225 sorry, that's the hundred and thirteen point capitals correct They are on the road obviously against Carolina Carolina is minus 275 they're just I like the games on what planet I mean Oh by the way, these games are in is so how you on the caps games are so boring

The games are close and a little warring. They're pretty boring I'll be excited more fun when you put 10 units on the cap Yeah for sure sure Maybe tonight will be exciting. A lot more fun when you put 10 units on the cap. Yeah, for sure, sure. But it's just a little, little boring, these games. And then later on, the big game, Vegas and Edmonton, game four in Edmonton. Edmonton is minus 115 on the money line.

The Vegas Golden Knights are minus 105, pretty tight. I have really no idea what's gonna happen. No idea what's gonna happen tonight. And then looking to tomorrow night, the Jets are dogs in the road and then all the way ahead on Monday The Leafs are big underdogs at home. So that's the games going on right now and you guys mentioned about the consmythe and What a goal you win it and I looked at it while you guys are talking to Jody You know the third favorite to win the consmate is? It is a goalie.

What team is that? Not Freddie. Freddie. Freddie is nine to one right now. Don't bet that. Miko Randin is the favorite. Obviously a plus 450, Conor McDavid plus 600. Then the next favorite is Leon Dry. Sorry, is Frederick Anderson, then Leon Dreisaitl at 12 to 1. So he's ahead of Leon. So there you go.

I don't mind, I don't mind Barkov at 18 to 1, too, there. Anyways, that was Game Time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for latest odds and find out why it's ever ordinary. Bet365 must be 19. Plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Barkov having a good series for you? No, but I mean, they're gonna...

Maybe they could win. Yeah, they win the cup. He's the captain mean they're gonna maybe they could win they win the cup He's the captain. Yeah, they could win All right. I think a quick break and we return we'll get into a little bit of a discussion on what's a suspension What isn't? Nicholas wah on his cross check. We haven't talked about that in greater detail on whether or not you thought He should have got a game or not. He ends up scoring a goal.

Of course. A game where a lot of people weren't expecting him to be in it. So we'll get into that when we return to Real Kipper and Born. down all things Toronto Raptors. It's the Raptor show on Sportsnet 590, the fan and wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the program. As a reminder, this hour of real Kipper and born brought to you by bet three, six, five. All right. So like I called them Nicholasaa because he's from Quebec. You're telling me it's Roy? I don't know.

I believe it's Roy. Oh, turn your mic on. Oh, okay. Matt Roy is pronounced Roy. Yeah, Matt Roy is Roy. I know, and let's say Nicholas. Okay, it's Waa, it's Waa. We're Waa, we're Waa, we're okay. Matt, it's wah. It's wah. We're wah. We're wah. We're okay

That Royce from the find your wah That was from Detroit Is from Quebec All right, Barbara, wah-wah Okay, so this is the one that talk will I'll never figure it out game two overtime Nicholas cross check on Frederick and They have a hearing yeah and You don't have a hearing just to find a guy

usually And like you don't have a hearing just to find a guy usually Usually mm-hmm. This is not a hockey play. They went all of this way to find them 7,812 dollars It's a big one though. It's a big one and 50 cents Where does 50 come from? The phone hearing is so you can go beyond the five limit apparently no the in person is beyond the five oh and was he yeah no it was on the phone yeah phone is no no you're thinking games I'm

saying five thousand games yeah yeah yeah you couldn't give a phone or you could find more than five thousand dollars so where does like eight hundred and twelve dollars and fifty cents come above maybe it's a percentage of salary or something was fine for his I get yeah 5,000. Yep flat number. Yeah, so is it different for like a charge or a cross-check? I think if they had is there tariffs had a phone I think if they had had a phone call with Max Domi they could have gone up to I think if they had had a phone call with Max Domi, they could have gone up to 7,800 911 cents billion whatever random number see the one thing

the one thing if I still played I would Thank the NHL for at least letting me know where the standard lies It's almost as if Moving forward so you do what WAA did now for 7k buddy? I? Would next game have a wad of 70k I've had a wad of cash in my pocket And I would I would actually pay the referee off the face off just stick it in its front pocket tap The face saw just stick it in its front pocket Can I tap? seven thousand eight hundred dollars I I'm not carrying fifty cents

So I'll owe you the fifty cents cuz it's gonna clank her in my pants. So you just put it in front pocket This is I'm all set for this actually that one's terrible I will tear I will pay Seven grand for that cross check all day long. In playoffs. Let me pick my guy. Oh my god. I was gonna present the case. It's gonna cost 30. Am I wrong? No. Am I wrong that I can turn around and go okay I've got that. I've got a free pass here on a fine. You know covering the Leafs we saw Matthews get two games for regular season games for one of those to Dulling's neck. We saw Riley get five games.

He traveled some distance to do it, but. He's looked them in the white of his eyes. It doesn't graze off shoulder pads. It doesn't, there's force, there's malice. Can I, Craig, can I try to present the case as to why he yeah He did get off. You got five minutes in a playoff over time What is the equivalent of a period of playoff over that really hate the equivalent? I don't mean to but I'm like, you know, like you said in our first hour

We have no idea how any of this stuff works So I'm just trying to present the case of potentially what it is. It's like dog years like yeah minutes worth maybe like what other what other Reason I think you're right. What other possible reason I think he's right. We watched the video five minutes and playoff overtime That's a pretty substantial penalty. He's Went back $22. I told you if if that's if that's the standard and I am allowed to weigh out what a five-minute kill would do either the first period or the third or overtime and

Just let me know that that's that's not gonna cost me a game. Yeah Yeah, yeah, and then you just that's all I'll make the target doesn't matter. You just get to pick your target five Five minute major. Can we kill this off and they did obviously the momentum sunk them? Yeah, and to and the trip right if it's in and then the best trip into the boards, but Worked out. Okay Yep, and then the best trip, but worked out okay. But can I ask though, like you talk about the standard, the standard, we don't have any idea what the standard is. It changes game to game.

It's willy nilly. It just feels like there's no. We don't wanna take guys away from the lineup. We want you guys to decide it. We don't want to be a Suspensionable league pulling out at times important players. Yeah, you want everything solved on the ice Yeah, give the guys a major let the players go at it. Whatever. It has to be really bad for us to pull someone out of a game Fair enough. They have made that clear as a off ice standard that it's still playoff hockey the way it used to be.

Yeah. All right. Let's get a little Jets talk. Are we at the point where Connor Hellebuck just plays home games? I don't hate it. Quite frankly, I don't hate that. Yeah. It's frustrating watching Hellebuck, but you know it's in there, right? He had the one game and it felt like he was gonna be his breakout turning point moment.

Did you feel like it was that bad? Against Dallas? No, it didn't feel anywhere near where I watched him in St. Louis. Bummer, the third one going in that he kind of deflects into his net is Do we have Scott Arneal's thoughts on the? allowable kicked goal

I believe we have both coaches there you got those clips for us We'll play the first one Scott Arneal on the on the kick The puck was kicked, but that heli Directed it in to the net. The rule states that if the puck gets kicked, it hits a body or a stick of anybody else other than the goaltender, it counts as a goal. It hit our goaltender's stick and went in the net. That is no goal.

So they said that Helly propelled the puck in. I haven't seen the word propelled in the rule book. This almost comes down. Yeah, so they're saying then he's basically playing the puck at that point. That's all I can say on it. That's what we take the rule as. Right.

That's what we thought. You know, the situation, that's why we thought maybe it was gonna go our direction. The rest of it, they, the situation. That's why we thought maybe it was going to go our direction. The rest of it, they made the decision. We got to live with it and we got to move on from it. I'm sorry to laugh, but you brought this up. The rule states that we got to get a couple of Moulson's and go down to the fireplace. Oh, it's the most Canadian guy ever.

Now the life to Gordon McKinsey. Oh, he held a rule of states. Anyway, it does come down to what is possession. Can you claim that Connor Hellebuyck played that puck like he had possession? I don't know. That's pretty gray. puck into the slot and if I kick it into the slot and a Winnipeg guy knocks it in the net, is that still a kicked in goal? I think what he was just saying, Arneal there, was that it would be a good goal if it goes in off another player after the kick. But because it goes off Hellebuck, who is the goaltender, they have not voided

the kick yet, but he's deemed to have propelled it rather than just tried to make a save on it and failed. How about rant and fire it at the same time? I agree with Scott Arneal. I Agree with Scott Arneil if the word propelled is not in the rule book. Yeah Find another way to describe if you legislated this in court like if you if you really took Prosecution defense whatever I think it's no goal

Like I think there's he kicked it and I don't think the rules definitively are clear enough to say Do you want to hear the Boer's thoughts boys? We have to bore as well So we play the board clip, please Derek Pete on the on the video review your counterpart Scott Arneal believes that if they ruled it a kick and it appears they did That the fact that it went off of hella bucks sticking in means it shouldn't have counted. That's how the rule reads What was your read on that? Well, I'm not sure that's how the rule reads I think I think the rule reads. What was your read on that play? Well, I'm not sure that's how the rule reads. I think the rule reads that if, I believe if the goalie's making a play on the puck, that it's a goal.

So that's the difference. Is it just deflected off him, or is he trying to make a play with the puck? And I think they got it right. They could not have found a more gray area of the rulebook of this goal. Like this is the greatest. That was like a radio host analysis from him. We all collectively sound like morons trying to describe this.

I don't know. The NFL is 100%. Yeah, the NFL is 100%. But like when you start with I think what it means. Yeah. Then like, oh, better off. Here's my interpretation. start with I think what it means. Yeah, then like here's my interpretation Yeah, nobody knows what it means. We don't the rule book part I read the rules Kicking rules and it's all kind of like yeah

You know think about what we consider possession in hockey. You and I know that if you put a pass behind Cale McCarr and he picks it up with his back skate, just a quick touch, that's possession. He's kicking it up. He has it. That's possession. But he touched it for half a second with his skate. Does Hellebuck have possession here?

It is really getting into interpretive dance at this point. Like... Exactly. Kind of. I think he didn't have possession. I think he's kind of whacking at it. The thing that drove me crazy about it is boys, take a little longer. Could you take longer next time? Seven and a half minutes. It's like, holy. If I'm telling you, it is a major't even know here a later. It's a major buzz kill Is that was such a great game and the TV? Yes TV? Honestly god like just go to bars

Go to like, you know, we'll return shortly and just like don't even try to entertain for seven and a half minutes Oh, you mean like the colored bars? Oh, I thought you were gonna like go into bars. No, no colored bars like they did in the 70s or 80s. The NBA would have had like a live concert to fill that break or something, you know? Yes. The NBA.

There you go. That's what I wanna hear for seven and a half minutes. Their reviews are horrible too. They'll sit there and look at a hand that didn touched for 15 minutes but it's not true Jets because it really felt like that break to your point kipper sapped their energy right and score about a minute later 49 it's a major problem dog Brandon is out of his mind he's leading by multiple points now out of his mind which is pretty good 18 points in 10 games,

which is barely better than his playoff average. Even with the... This is the goal that sunk him, right? Goodness gracious, guys. His all-world power move. 6-4, 2-15. Nah, we don't want to pay him more than 12. I've made a huge mistake.

I'm telling you, I don't know where this story goes here, but a trip to the Stanley Cup final or winning the thing or winning the Kahn Smythe, this could be regarded one of the greatest NHL storylines in history. Kudos toal man you landed the plane. Oh god. He got he just sat on it But this is like the way to do anything kawaii right like it's like you wait No years. It was it was just it was just there for the taking for him He just walked into a great for him. He just walked into a great situation. God love Jimmy, the nicest guy in the league. You can't give him credit. Love Jimmy, but Jimmy didn't split an Adam to land Rantanen. It was just, it was either there or the Leafs. Oh my God. That's it. There's only two choices. I don't want to talk about that. And maybe Vegas.

Can we, until... Leafs couldn't use a playoff player like him, but they know this is He is turning it into a potential made-for-tv movie that's how good this storyline is listen I see the stuff that's on Netflix boys that could easily get on there so the theory that I have is that that The theory that I have is that, that Branton played a certain way and had great success with Colorado, but Nate was the driver, right? And he didn't have to be the driver. He played off of Nate because we know Nate. He can go coast to coast. He's a mule. Yeah. Now he goes to Carolina, gets off to a horrific start.

They play a certain way. We know how structured they are. We just had Jody Shelley talk and he looks awful. People bail on him, right? Stinks, No good. Not this guy. Right? Yep. Then he goes to Dallas off to a slower start. But Dallas doesn't have and Wyatt Johnson is a great player. He's going to be a fantastic

player. Rupay Hintz. Okay. Big strong guy. But like still not next level superstar stuff. He is now the driver. The man. He is the man. He is. I'm coming through the neutral zone now. He's he's turning himself into what Nate used to do for him in Colorado. And it just dawned on him. I'm going to be the guy now driving.

And that goal that he scored to make it four to was it was Nate. It was Nate McKinnon like. And now he he he can do it. And now he's totally in his comfort zone. You know, my obsession with having the elite top end guys and what I think about difference makers, you look at that Dallas lineup like Jason Robertson, you know know like good player Wyatt Johnston like they got they got guys, but they needed a guy Yeah, they got these and they got them and all of a sudden. It's like

You know it feels like they're probably the cup favorite up two to one You know like they think most people trust their goaltending I need high You know, like they, I think most people trust their goaltending. And he, Heiskenen who's potentially. Well this is it, he's waiting in the weeds, right? He's getting closer right here. I told you he was not gonna go in the first round. He had no shot at the first round. Stars are the favorite.

Plus 330, Oilers next, plus 350. Yeah, I don't like their D. I don't like their D at all actually. But it gets better. But I love Harley and I love Heiskenen and Lindell. If he comes back. And Labeuchkin, Cece, all of a sudden you're putting together a group.

My boy Harley. Love Harley. Harls. Thank God. He's gonna make a lot of money, that guy. He's also gonna play for a lot of Team Canada's. Yeah, that does seem very likely. Oh, sorry, Jets.

Jets talk. You guys get back in this series, we promise. Oh, yeah, that was the best Give me a prediction on vegas and the oilers two two or three one Two two, I think vegas stone stones Should play tonight. I just think the oilers go attending the Conor night tonight. Oilers win. OK, all right. I hope so. But I would prefer

no reason to move from wherever you are watching and listening because we've got it all covered for you here at Sportsnet. Enjoy the games tonight. And we're back tomorrow on the Real Kipper and Bourne show.