Real Kyper & Bourne - Assessing Canadian Teams at Halfway Point

Episode Date: January 11, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam Mckee begin hump day discussing Auston Matthews sitting out his first game of the season due to an injury, Bobby McMann making his NHL debut and if we'll see more load management for hockey players. The guys are joined by Nashville Predators TV play-by-play voice Willy Daunic (21:31) to get his thoughts on the team's identity, how they've produced their offence on the ice, if Ryan Johansen is their number one centre, why they're hoping Tanner Jeannot will have a better second half, and a story of Willy being drafted to the Toronto Blue Jays. Afterwards, Sportsnet's David Amber jumps on (41:29) to share his idea on how the NHL can combat tanking, Vancouver Canucks' struggles, if a coaching change is imminent for the team, at the midway point, why he's more concerned about both teams in Alberta out of all the Canadian franchises, and who will make a big trade at the deadline, Kyle Dubas or Ken Holland. Finally, Coming In Hot Sens Podcast's Jason York joins the guys (1:06:29) to share the state of the Ottawa Senators at the halfway point of the year, if Pierre Dorion's job on the line despite a pending sale of the franchise, and Alex DeBrincat's future with the Sens. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. We got a game. Yay! Hockey! Two days off is like an eternity now. It is. It's quite a bit. You look very nice today. Oh, thank you. I like your outfit. You got nice shoes on.

What's going on? What's going on? I'm going to go to the hockey game today. Oh, thank you. I like your outfit. You got nice shoes on. What's going on? What's going on? I'm going to go to the hockey game today. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. I'm so excited. I've missed it so much in the last two days. I'm going to go down to Scotiabank Arena, hang out, watch the game. I'm going to the Islanders game when they're here.

When are they here? Monday the 23rd. So two weeks. Less than 12 days. My son's first NHL game. I'm very excited. That's cool. Yeah. Looking forward to that. So two weeks. Less than. 12 days. My son's first NHL game. I'm very excited. That's cool. Yeah.

Looking forward to that. You found tickets. I did find tickets. I found two people with tickets. Wow. I know. And you told them you wanted to take your son? Yes.

That's the guilt play. Yeah, for sure. Because if you said, hey, look at me and Kipper want to go, and they'll go, okay, that's 400 bucks. You got your son in there. It's like, oh. He's just six and he's never been. And I'm just a media guy.

He's just a little baby. Good on you. Good on you. We're glad you're aboard for the next two hours. We're going to help tee up the Toronto Maple Leafs playing the Nashville Predators who come in quite high. They've won a season-high four straight games, outscoring Team 17-8 during that stretch. They've lost just one regulation game in their last 10.

7-1-2. So this will be a good test, I think, for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yeah. And the type of team that has given the least fits typically right where they'll run into a very good goaltender uc sorrows had 50 or sorry 64 saves the other game he's been very good they defend well they're physical so yeah these are the type of teams that they've run up against and gone oh we're just not gonna be able to score i guess so we'll see we'll see what they got tonight in 20 minutes we'll catch up to willie donick play by play uh for the nashville predators he co-hosts an espn

radio show in nashville and we'll get his thoughts on this team uh i've got my thoughts on nashville we'll also have uh david amber in about 40 minutes always fun to catch up with David. Of course, he hosts hockey on Monday nights. Between now and 40 minutes, I need to find out what exactly is the name of his show. Rogers Monday Night Hockey on Sportsnet. There you go. I think. Gosh, I hope I got that right.

We will get that right. And the second hour, Jason York. Always a blast to have Jason York. He'll be driving. He'll forget he's on the radio. He'll say some really great stuff. Yeah. And then you don't know this,

but there's going to be a segment at the end of useful or useless stats. No. That I'm going to present to you. God, it sounds like a fun show today. Can't wait. Okay. So as we tee up toronto and nashville someone maybe out of the lineup tonight someone significant an mvp a 60 goal scorer out of the lineup austin matthews out officially from tonight's game and let's start with sheldon

keith on our first kippers clipper on the thought process behind Matthews having the night off. Yeah, I'd say he's just day-to-day. He's obviously out there putting in lots of work and all that, so he's clearly not too far away. So he's improving daily. We'll see where he's at for tomorrow. Is it something you picked up on Sunday or just a wear and tear type situation like that?

Yeah, it's something that's been lingering for a while. Isn't that worse? Isn't it worse that it's something that's been lingering for a while instead of just a little like, ah, he took a stinger in the ribs and it's going to be a couple of games? I look at the circumstances around this, and I wouldn't go into that much detail on what you're saying. And I really believe that this is a firsthand look on big picture,

half a season to go here. That here's a guy that is not having the season that you would have thought when people are saying, oh, he can hit 70. He can hit 75. Okay. What? The heavy metal drop was unforeseen. Derek.

Sorry, that was YouTube. I guess it could have been some worse website that you had open up there. We'll take YouTube. Derek thought I was going to talk about whether Matthew signs or not long term. I thought Sam was going on that, you know, oh, here we go again. Do music. So just to get back on Matthews, the fact that this isn't about getting him back on track,

this isn't about him getting back to a 50-goal pace. This is your first official look at we don't care what his goal total is. We don't care where he is on MVP vote. This is geared towards first round of the playoffs. Winning. And it may be the start of what we see moving forward i wouldn't put wouldn't put it i wouldn't put it past kyle or sheldon to sit there and go we've got some nights off for some significant players here moving forward yeah

and this is the type of thing where it's nagging where they could play and you just choose what they that they don't and in hockey it's for whatever reason a faux pas to say uh maintenance game or load management or whatever we look down our nose at the nba for but this is kind of the same idea guy's got something that's bugging him give him a couple of nights off he probably misses detroit if he's missing tonight what's the was going to ask, do you think he misses tomorrow night as well? Yeah, I think so. I do. Get him ready for Saturday night against Boston? That makes a whole lot of sense to me, Sammy.

Yeah. You know, like, what's 24 hours in the scheme of things here? If you really want a guy to get something, something's bugging him. You give him two games off, then he gets an extra day after that. From a coverage perspective of this team, I am somewhat interested to see what they look like without matthews and putting willie into the center iceman role here going into tonight seeing a i guess i'm not saying that i'm more excited to see bobby mcmahon than austin matthews that's not the argument i'm trying to make here but just a couple different things to kind of throw a little a wrench into

the day-to-day monotony of the leaf season it's not the worst thing to see what they do good point did did i not have this conversation months ago about the potential of math or uh uh nylander or marner being center iceman on this team so it's it's always a column too about the idea of like okay if we're focusing on the playoffs experimenting seeing what you have trying things out it's about focusing on what comes on april whatever it is 17th or whatever the date of game one would be and come on how many of us envisioned at any point prior to like the last 24 hours of seeing a a bunting nylander engvall line oh man it's just like it's three guys that can piss a coach off right like bunting last game was sent down to the fourth line after a penalty he doesn't get in the coach's doghouse quite as

much but nylander and Engvall certainly do. I've heard the Bunting and Keefe relationship is pretty, pretty interesting. You know, that there Keefe loves them, but that makes it easier to kind of work them, you know, like to, to lean on them.

And I think, and I've seen this scenario before throughout my career, where I know a coach looks at a player and says, don't ever forget where you came from. Yeah. And you are not that guy and you're not that guy. And they'll watch you on and off the ice when you're. Well, this is why the Tim Hortons commercial was so baffling. It's Matthews and Nylander and Riley and Bunting commercial was so baffling it's matthews and

neilander and riley and bunting is there making coffee and it's like hold on so so you know the first time bunting slips shelvin's mic derek's throwing me off with the drop-ins right now well the first one was what was the last one big mike big mike there you go but it's it's all about not forgetting where you came from and who you really are and it's nice for your success it's nice for our success but if you slip and you start thinking you're one of those guys yeah you're doomed i'm doomed and that's the sheldon bunting 100 that's it he's like i want you to go do your thing be happy be one of the boys on your line with matthews and neilander but just remember that's a coveted

spot and part of your success is because i've put you there. So when I played with the New York Rangers, it was still a thing whether or not you lived in the city or not. Oh, yeah. But Mark insisted that I'm single, no family, you're going to live in the city. You're going to live in the city. Messier. Messier. Yeah.

But the only ones that really lived in the city were all the big cheeses. Messier. You got to have money. lived in the city Were all the big cheeses Messier You gotta have money Richter Yeah And Leach Where were the rest of you? The rest of the guys? In Westchester

Westchester, yeah In the suburbs Yeah So I'm like, okay But then there was always And Coley Campbell was our assistant coach And

Always Like There was Kenan's role There was Dick coach and always like there was keenan's role there was dick todd's role and there was coley's and coley kind of played that kind of middle guy as any associate coach would do yep but it would be like always that reminder of you're not messier no you're not lee that's great they want you to go to the china club but just remember you're the tag along yes yeah and if mess wants you okay i get that yeah but don't think you can run with those guys and you're not in that and then every once in a while the plane would land uh in uh in westchester and uh there'd be a bus to take the guys, but Mess would have the stretched limo. Really? Oh, yeah, waiting for the guys to go back to the city.

Yeah. And I tell you what, I would cringe getting up off the plane and watching 17 guys watch me get into a stretched limo with Messier Leach, and that's like one of these things just doesn't belong. It's total Sesame Street here. Yeah. You know, it's so funny. Those shouldn't matter, belong. It's total Sesame Street here. Yeah. You know, it's so funny.

Those shouldn't matter, right? You just chose to live in a place. I was always the guy going, okay, man, did I win a contest? Did they pull my name out of a raffle? I shouldn't be here. How about us? Hey, guys, the New York Rangers. Just the four of us.

Is Bunting feeling now he's made the switch from uh a guy that you don't know his next contract certainly going to do that and his points are doing that for him too or he is he now in the mix of being right there with matthews marner neilander tovaris uh bunting no but there's a tear below he right? You know, there's a tier. He's not. All nuts are equal. Great job. But he's not like But Sheldon's watching that.

Sure. And yeah, there's some, you know, remember who you are and what you do type of thing, I think. Particularly because in a role like buntings, if you're not hungry, you're not as useful. Those are the guys you want scrapping for every inch and desperate to make it you know a push every time they're out there so yeah i think there is some of that relationship okay we'll watch that line rather closely uh

we'll also watch uh kerfoot camp and mcmahon yeah i don't really like bobby mcmahon okay where do you know bobby mcmahon i don't know bobby mcmahon from if you walked in here right now i'd say the guy who kind of looks like morgan riley that's him but it's easier to look like a guy who works who fits when you're not a scorer when you're a straight line go fast be strong of guy. And I think he can do those things. So I think there's a good chance to come in and say, I liked him. And there, there is a, a really kind of feel good story here with him as well. Yeah.

Because he really came out of nowhere. Yes. He signed a two year AHL deal just before I think COVID. And then the next season he went down to the ECHL. There's a little background information. I actually need this as I'm getting educated. He went down to the ECHL

and couldn't play there. So he got sent to Wichita Thunder. Okay. So wasn't fast-tracked to the toronto maples of the nhl so you're saying and then last year didn't make the marlies so he went right to newfoundland and played for what's the growlers yeah until late october he scored 24 american league goals last year this This is a guy that had every path, every long path to get to this point.

Yeah. Sounds like one of those guys who's, you know, a hockey guy, like, you know, a fitness guy, a committed to the craft type of person. And, you know, that to me is like, if you're looking for fringe people, that's, you know, I don't know what he's going to be or what he's going to do or what he's going to look like,

but it's easier to have success. And just like you said, there's a lot of things that they like about this guy, a work ethic, a good skater. They say he shoots the puck well. Yeah. Nobody knows how this is going to play out, how it's going to look, but at least, you know, a guy can look back at his career up until this point and say, hey, listen, the road less taken still can get you there.

Still a road. The stats that we were getting from Sammy before the show, who do you think, listeners at home, has the most hits on the Toronto Maple Leafs? My first guess was Sandin, but you got it. Did you not? Who has the most hits on the Maple Leafs? I went with, yeah, I went with a fourth liner there, Austin Reese.

Yeah, and it's him. Yeah. You know. And I almost guessed the number of hits because Sammy said, did you give us the league leader in hits? I didn't give you the league leader in hits, but I gave you the... Tanner Janot, who's on Nashville, who's third most in the NHL with 144. Sorry to step on your toes, Sammy. No, you're all good.

So I had guessed 90, and what's the number? 86 for Aston Reese. Yeah. So if your role is defending and hitting people, every time a guy comes up like Bobby McMahon, you know, you're worried, I would think, because those are doable things. You can defend and hit.

Just take some energy and some, you know. And so I'm interested to see, you know, is there more from Aston Reese? Can McMahon make a push? Is he a guy who could Holmberg his way in at some point? That would be good. Well, you do here. You got to do something.

Here's the other thing that you kind of look at, and this is more of a Kyle Dubas thing, is that you have to, in the back half, also create assets. In terms of deadline trades? 100%. I'm not saying you've maxed out on them the last few years, but you've given up a lot chasing this thing. And now this is another opportunity to maybe just add a little piece.

And I think Connor Timmons is a prime example of that where you took really something that was nothing and no i'm not saying that uh he is now a a nice bargaining chip but someone needs a 6-2 right hand shot is that a point per game or whatever our team's more convinced that he is a serviceable player since he's been at Toronto Maple Leafs than what he's been through with Arizona Coyotes? Yeah. Absolutely.

Right. It's a shame that this Nick Robertson thing has really gone so poorly. Because he was one of the guys that we thought would be an asset for them. You're talking about creating assets. He's an asset they lost. Without a doubt.

For no return. without a doubt no return without a doubt even if he needed to go back one more time in the american hockey league and found a way to be one of their top scores then that would have been 100 enough for another team to say he just needs a change you know and it was a holes like me who saw him score two and an ot winner against dallas and said never a marley again and i think everyone was all in on that right everyone was like even the leafs were probably like i wasn't well okay but the leafs were all in on that i think or anyway i yeah we did have uh cool your jets on this discussion. Yeah. But I mean, mid,

that's a great analysis. He's mid. Yeah. He's mid. You know who else is mid? The Nashville predators. Okay. Yeah.

They're almost by definition dead mid in the standing. And that's, I, I don't know. I mean, mean i get i hate tanking you know how i feel about it but it's set up where maybe this is a team that missed the boat because right now they are in the mushy middle yeah you know that to me feels like david poyle hanging on right with with a team that had some really good years there and just trying to keep it afloat duchesne and forsberg and johansson and some of these guys and it's tough to just i admire them for pushing their chips in to win every single year they seem to do whatever it takes right like this year they're

not folding they're going on a run here but yeah probably not going to get a top pick probably not much of a cup threat but a pretty good team nonetheless and david poyle one stanley cup final in 30 plus years he's been with that team for 25 hasn't he been with the predators i don't know since they started yeah he's the only guy they've had isn't it yes because it was him and trots forever and then uh obviously trots moved on but yeah it's the same him for the whole time i don't know i've always they've always had such a great d core they've always been really really good at developing d like to me if you're that's your market you just want to be in the playoff

conversation every year yeah i you know you want that extra revenue you want that extra gate you want to keep the the interest high like they've always what the owners are pushing they've always been really competitive oh stop it they've always been really competitive kipper they've always been in the playoffs they've had a ton of years of them being really good. It's never close to a championship. Who is he? Six games against, or seven games against Pittsburgh Penguins. That's pretty close. Once out of 25 years?

Yeah. You know what, Kipper? I would absolutely kill for that. I know, but you are scraping the bottom of the Toronto barrel. Yeah. Who's the all-time leading scorer in National Predators history? Yeah. Legwand?

I think it's David Legwand. Probably. I think he has, like, 590 points. And I don't know. I could look it up. But, like, it's not. It's like. 500?

Yeah. It was like, well, Florida just, you know, who has a Huberto or whoever passed. Oliokun. Oliokun. And they have, like, 440 career points or something my point is they are not a franchise who's been littered with superstars and you know that it's tough to get over the hump in this league unless you have superstars all right we're going to track down willie are we not uh sammy call him right now all right we'll get uh we'll get a nashville stats

no i got nothing do you want some sure predators are among the most physical teams in the nhl this season uh averaging the fourth most hits per game uc sorrows has the longest active shutout streak in the nhl at 90 minutes and six seconds making 77 saves over that time so elite goaltending they got a a couple of available guys. That's an interesting thing, right? Like, would you say that Matthias Ekholm could be had at the deadline? Like if Nashville goes the other direction? Roman Yossi is their point. He just got there, didn't he? He has 574.

Leg one has 566. Okay. So that happened. Last week. When we were watching another show i think i think we were watching yellowstone when that happened great show okay let's bring in willie donick uh play-by-play announcer for the nashville predators uh hey willie thanks for joining us really appreciate it uh we're kind of we're talking about the team that you cover and we're not sure what to make of them are they a

team that can truly contend i've got them in that mushy middle can have success but no probability aren't deep enough to have it uh let's get your overall thoughts of uh of this team this season well i think you've just asked a central question that our fan base in Nashville has been asking really from the end of last season. If you wind back quickly to 2020 in the bubble, I think that's when they really came to the conclusion that the nucleus from 2017, where they got to with the two games of the Stanley Cup, the next year where they won the President's Trophy, and the following year that they won the Central, but then lost in the first round to Dallas. Once they lost in the bubble in 2020 to Arizona in the qualifying,

that's when they started to transition. They called it the competitive transition, where they've gotten younger. Now, last year, I don't think anybody thought they were going to the playoffs. They did. UC Soros got hurt. They got whitewashed by Colorado. And then they were going to the playoffs. They did. UC Soros got hurt. They got whitewashed by Colorado. And then they really had to decide, are we doubling down or are we going to reset even further?

They decided to add Nino Niederreiter, Ryan McDonough. So what they want to be at their best is a team that could win a playoff series or two. And I think when you have UC Soros and you have the team playing at their best is a team that could win a playoff series or two. And I think when you have UC Soros and you have the team playing at their best, I think they've got a chance in the playoffs to do some damage. I mean, you've got to consider how well Soros has played. If you look at some of those analytics the last three years, he's been right there in the top five anyway. Now, it hasn't happened in the playoffs.

That's the next thing for him. Now, at their worst, they are in that mushy middle. The worst-case scenario is you finish, say, 10th in the West, and you don't have a high pick, and you've just brought in McDonough. He's got three more years on his contract. Duchesne, Johansson, Roman Yossi, guys like that, you're still tied to for a long time. And I think that's where you're at a crossroads.

So it's very important that they continue trending in the direction they are right now. After a slow start, you could at least see what they were trying to do when they've got everybody. But, of course, we're only about halfway through the season, so there's a lot of hockey left to be played. Yeah, so what's going right with them right now? It looks to me like they've lost just once in regulation in their past 10 games, four-star games. They beat some good teams. So what sort of flipped for them that they've found this recent success?

Well, there's a couple of things. Number one, Ryan McDonough is now settled in as Roman Yossi's partner. They're both left shots. They didn't have that at the beginning of the year. And Ryan McDonough, I think, struggled a little bit. And they were trying to figure out what's the best way to use this guy. This guy's a winning player. That's why we brought him in.

But where does he fit? At one point, he was playing on the third pair just to try to split up left and right because you have to have two lefties somewhere. They started off with him and Ekholm. Once they've settled with him and Yossi, that's where it's locked in. And then you have Matthias Ekholm and Alex Carrier as the other pair. That's really kind of their defensive-minded shutdown pair. Now you've got a top four that they envision.

In fact, when they've had those four together, They're 11-2-3. That was interrupted because McDonough took the puck to the face against the Islanders and missed seven games. They only won one of those games. And Alex Carrier got hurt in the next game, and he was out. So they really went through a struggle there. But I think that's where I would start. Soros, after a slump early in the season is playing fantastic right now and now you've got philip borsberg starting to score he's got seven goals in his last seven games so i think those

are the main things that i think have come around they're they're figuring out how to get a little bit more offense to go with sort of the backbone of the team that they started which is defense and uc sorrows we're talking to willie don, play-by-play announcer for the Nashville Predators. When we talk about the offense, I go back years ago when we saw a really, really good hockey trade, a one-for-one. And that was, of course, Ryan Johansson for Seth Jones. And the feeling was you had to give up something big uh seth jones at that

point had been one of those young guns that was surefire blue chip uh star in the making ryan johansson a big stud centerman that you can't find and i watch ryan johansson and again uh not amongst your leaders but paid like one where is ryan johansson, and again, not amongst your leaders, but paid like one. Where is Ryan Johansson in this organization moving forward here? Is he still a face and a go-to guy years later after that trade? It's a great question. You got me thinking on the one-for-one. Think about the one-for-ones the Predators have had.

They had that one. They had Subban for Weber the following year. And then they had Kevin Fiala for Mikael Granlund after that. And so those are some serious one-for-one hockey trades right there where we can debate for a long time, you know, who won the trade, et cetera. But on your question to Johansson, I think another thing that has recently trended is you have three very young centers that have started to, that they weren't in the picture to begin the season, really, that have started to take hold and take a little heat off of Johansson and move Mikhail Granlin from center to wing. Yusuf Parsons, who's a seventh round pick. I think a lot of fans around here probably will see him for the first time tonight. and move Mikhail Granlin from center to wing. Yusuf Parsons, who's a seventh-round pick, I think a lot of fans around here probably will see him for the first time tonight.

We'll see how he does. He plays big minutes against the other team's good players. Same thing with Cody Glass, who was kind of lost in the woods, injured in Vegas. They got him in the Ryan Ellis deal, and it took a while. They sent him to the minors almost the entire year last year. He's been really good the last handful of games. He's starting to play a bigger role. And then Tommy Novak, who was another mid-round pick

that's been in the system for a while, a little bit of a late bloomer, he's provided some spark. All that to say, Johansson now has a little bit of the pressure taken off of him. And I do think at his best, Johansson wins a lot of face-offs. He can really help the power play. He can make plays. But I think where you're going is,

is he a guy that you can lean on as the number one center? I think they're trying to find ways around that a little bit. Still get the most out of him, but I don't know if he can be your 1A center going forward. And I think that's what they're trying to hope, that these young centers can relieve a little pressure there. Willie, one of the most watched players, or most must-watch players in the Predators for me is Tanner Janot.

And I think a lot of people would say that. Obviously, he throws his body around. Physical guy, scored 20-some times last year. What's up with him this season? Numbers down quite a bit, but I know the team still seems pretty happy with his play. Yeah, that's an interesting one if you if you look at his game I do think in fairness he went through a tough period early in the season where you're kind of wondering where where is the guy that scored all those goals right last year and of late it's been really

unbelievable uh that he hasn't scored i think the speed to his game is back he's got that good combination of speed and power you know he can he can fight he gets big hits he gets in on the four check you know he can jump in on the rush he gets tips in front of the net that's him at his best uh i don't think we're seeing enough of that early in the season when the team was struggling. Recently, he's been better, but the puck isn't going in, and I know it's weighing on him. You see him in the locker room after the game.

You see him in practice. You see him on the bus. You say, what have I got to do to get one? He thought he had one the other night. It actually went off of Jeremy Lauzon's skate. It was Genoa that made the play, but Lauzon gets the goal. So he's gone, I think 30 or 31 games now without a goal, which is crazy, but I do think he's helping them win. And, uh, and I, he's, he has been picking up more assists, but that is a guy that if you're looking at

secondary scoring, he and Yakov Trenin combined, I think had, if I'm doing the math, right. 41 goals between the two of them early in the season, nobody was really scoring at all on that secondary level. Trennan's coming around a little bit. They're hoping that, you know, can have a good second half. Willie, I know that maybe some Nashville fans have been scratching their heads the last few years, but is this truly maybe one more chance for the Nashville Predators before something drastic has to happen? And number one

moving forward David Poyle still the guy to move this as a general manager number two if they do miss the playoffs or get knocked out yet again early is something bold need to happen and Yossi's not going anywhere but our producer sammy threw out the name at at home as a defenseman you you tell me right now that you put at home on the market i'm going to tell you that uh nashville can get a king's ransom he's that good he's he would be that much in demand as a shutdown guy for a team uh like the toronto maples, and there's a few others out there, is this where it's headed? I think it is a tough... If they do not make the playoffs the way they are built,

I do think there will be a lot of noise because there was a certain amount last year, I think, when they lost in the playoffs. They haven't won a round since 2018, and so there's a certain amount last year, I think, when they lost in the playoffs. They haven't won a round since 2018. And so, you know, there's a little impatience, for sure. And Nashville as a market has only known one GM. There's only been one architect from the very, very beginning. We're going way back to 1997, you know, before they even took the ice.

David Boyle's been at the top. So there's a faction of people that are saying, you know, I'd just like to have something new, you know, just for even took the ice, David Boyle has been at the top. So there's a faction of people that are saying, you know, I just like to have something new, you know, just for the sake of having something new. So I think that's an interesting decision that would be made. But that's not how they're built this year. You're right on Ekholm. I think if they, let's, let's just say they have injuries, whatever happens, and it takes them away from the playoff line at the trade deadline, then I think you would have to look at possibilities of a guy like Matias Ekholm or somebody that could help restock your farm system. They do have some pretty good players in their farm system.

They have the goalie that I think down the road could be a really, really interesting player, Yaroslav Askarov from Russia. He's been named to the AHL All-Star team. He's looking really good. They've got a couple other guys that are really doing good things in Milwaukee. But, you know, there's no question. They don't have a loaded farm system for sure. But we know how complicated it is with trades, with the salary cap,

everybody up there. They've got some big contracts with term. But I think that is one where you take a look at where you are, uh, in a little less than two months, as you get closer to that trading deadline. Well, yeah, before we let you go, I have to ask the most important, important question of this interview. I have an, uh, a good, uh, source here that you were drafted by the Toronto blue Jays. Is that correct? Tell us about your interactions with Toronto. Well, unfortunately I didn't? Tell us about your interactions with Toronto.

Well, unfortunately I didn't get up the chain to get to Toronto very often, other than being a player in the stands. You know, I, I was a, uh, the 25th rounder out of Vanderbilt in Nashville in 1993. And this is of course, Blue Jays heyday, right? Prime Blue Days for sure. So they had a stock farm system for sure, which is my excuse for not getting up to the bigday, right? Oh, yeah. Prime Blue Days, for sure. So they had a stock farm system, for sure, which is my excuse for not getting up to the big leagues. Hey, I was just blocked. They had Ola Rude. They had Shannon Stewart. They had Carlos Delgado. How was I going to get to Toronto?

Come on. But I spent one summer in Medicine Hat. I spent the other summer in St. Catharines. And I had a lot of fun. I got some great minor league stories. We had some extremely long bus rides, which I think I could probably be somewhat as a rival to the guys that grew up in the Western Hockey League, maybe not quite as extreme,

but we had some 10, 14-hour ones for sure. But it was a blast. And so I've always had a little fondness. I still got a little bit of Blue Jays gear in my closet. It's aged a lot. I don't quite fit into it quite as well, especially the pants. Hey, Willie, you are like one of those dumb Canadian kids who goes to the draft and sits in the stands forever

waiting to hear their name called. At 20, as a 25th round, that draft lasted what four days that's right you know what's funny is now they do televise it in 1993 it wasn't on tv so i just graduated from vanderbilt i'm sitting at my house and i'm just hoping that the phone rings right i'm sitting around and of course this is so it was the second day of the draft and it's getting late in the second day. I'm thinking, you know, the phone hasn't rung. Is our phone hooked up? Is this, did we have, I kept picking it up. Is there a dial tone? Did we pay our bill? And I was thinking, is this going to happen?

And then finally I did get a call from our scout and he said, have you ever been to medicine hat? All these guys going to Florida and Arizona, New York city medicine hat. But I was happy. I was happy. I was like, we'll pay for your plane ticket. We'll give you a couple of grand as a signing bonus, and we'll send you on your way.

I was like, I'm in. That's amazing. How did the signing bonuses today compare to the one that Nashville gave you to play-by-play for them? Well, at the start, it was not a whole lot of difference. I can tell you that back then it was $5,000 and a plane ticket. That's what it was. Hey, 1993, that's all right.

This is great. Yeah, I was like, this is great. Are you kidding? That's awesome stuff. Hey, Willie, really appreciate your time and some storytelling at the end. You're welcome on the show anytime. Thanks for doing this. I appreciate you having me, guys. Always great to be in a hockey hotbed

like this. Thanks, Willie. Appreciate it. Willie Donick, play-by-play announcer for the Nashville Predators. That was great. Truly, of all the teams to draft you and all the places you get sent to next, Medicine Hat might be the most hilarious place to get sent to. You've been drafted into Major League Baseball.

Did I miss it? What position? Ever been to Medicine Hat? Sounded like First Base because you said they had Olerud and Delgado. First Baseman. He was First Base outfield. Yeah. So left fielder, First Base.

You know, my dad and my father-in-law. Played at Vandy, though. Must have been a hell of a baseball player. Vandy's like the number one baseball program in the States. It's a huge thing there i've been forever but as i say my dad and clark gillies both got drafted by the houston astros and it was pat gillick who drafted them both that's true i didn't know yeah and you know what they would do then is they would basically go to like saskatchewan they say who are the farm boys good honest farm boys you know they're hard working who are the the big guys that are athletic?

That's enough. That's enough. I don't know. See if these guys can become something. We drafted them in the 3,009th round. Let's see if these guys can play. They went and played double A ball or rookie ball in Covington, Virginia for a couple summers. Really? Yeah. That's really cool. That's actually how my dad

and father-in-law first met before the Islanders. Really? Yes. That's very cool. Isn't it how my dad and father-in-law first met before the Islanders. Really? Yes. That's very cool. Isn't it? Really cool. Well, I feel like there is baseball. I feel like a lot of hockey guys are good.

It's just they're just good athletes, I think is what it comes down to. But also the seasonal, like you have, you know, you can play in the summer because there's no hockey before it was a year-round thing. Like I love that clip of Sid when he was a kid, like really young in his career, and they took him to, what's the Pirates Park? I forget what it's called. No. Petco? PNC.

PNC. And they took him there as a rookie, and he like hit a couple bombs. Yeah. It's like, come on. Love it. Yeah. Is there any world that Nashville makes the playoffs this year? Yeah. If we're dealing with 90 91 92 points if

it's that low then yeah west stinks west stinks right now the blues and oilers are tied for the second wild card spot at 45 points nashville's got 44 with three games at hand in both and have they're technically in by points percentage way better goalie than both of those teams. Right. That's the difference for me. If you're a Vezna-level goaltender and you're floating around the playoff picture, to me, I'm always going to pick the team with the best tendy. It looks like they may. UC Soros, real deal Holyfield.

Better than all those guys. Is that enough, though? I'm looking at St. Louis, Edmonton. St. Louis is getting frisky here. But I see up front, I see Forsberg, Duchesne. I know Grandlin's a good player, but... Yeah, but he's a third-liner on the Leafs, right? Or second-liner, I should say. Ryan Johansson and Duchesne are still your go-to-guy leaders.

No disrespect to either guy, but that's not good. You don't want those guys to be your best players. You'd like them to be your third and fourth best players. They've never really shown the ability to lead a team or carry a team. No, no doubt about that. Yeah, up front, I think it's what Vegas struggled with when they were trying to, they first came into the league and didn't win cups, and they're like, how do we get superstars? And they did everything they could to get superstars.

If I'm David Poyle and I don't have a good feeling a week before the trade deadline, I'm putting up at home for sale. Do you worry, though, that your time has run out, that everyone is saying that we just want to see someone else? I know. He's like 35. Like your time. What's the difference between 35 and 40?

It's over. And it is the right thing to do, right? So regardless of what comes next, it's the right move. If they're putting Ekholm out there, Kyle Dubas on line one. Wow. Wouldn't that be a game changer? Love that guy. Oh my gosh.

He's a game changer.'s a exactly what they need and like i told you they but i don't know if dubas can afford that type of guy i would rather see them just spend out the wazoo for the exact guy they need then you know gavrikov is kind of a labushkin. Yeah, no, no. Just get the guy who's going to play in your top four and be a stud for the next four years. Yeah, and cost you your next four years of picks. All right. You think?

I have no idea. We want to sneak anything else in? No, let's get to Amber. We can do some stuff after. All right. We've got David Amber, one of our favorites, coming up after the break. Real Kipper and Bourne.

Much more coming up after the break. Real Kipper and Bourne. Much more coming up. This is Real Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590 The Van. All right, we ready? You tell me. Yeah, I'm ready. Okay. I didn't hear Sammy, though. He didn't come in my ear.

Does he usually? Yeah, now I can. He's on TikTok. All right. I took a little bit of heat last time we had our next guest on because I didn't really know the name of his show. Yeah. So I'm going to take another crack at this. Let's do it. Okay. All right.

Let's welcome in our next guest. Sports critics are calling his show on Monday the new Saturday night. Not to be confused with Monday night football or Monday Night Baseball,

let's welcome in the host of Monday Night Hockey on Sportsnet, David Amber. Rogers Monday Night Hockey. Oh, s***. Sorry. Sorry about that. I meant Rogers Monday Night Hockey on Sportsnet. Let's welcome in David Amber. How do you do?

That was tremendous. Now you just got to watch one of the Mondays, and then I'll feel really good. I see Cassie. I see who else is on? Anson and Yandel. Anson and Yandel and Kenya yes

we see ya no we're good big night last night on this show what happened last night I don't know that's where you take over the conversation oh my god I'm going to bail you out here Kipper first of all I love the That's where you take over the conversation. Oh, my God.

I'm going to bail you out here, Kipper. Okay, so first of all, I love the Ekholm take. I've been saying Ekholm or Edmondson are the two guys. If I'm a team like the Leafs targeting that lockdown defender, Ekholm's at the top of my list. But as you said, what's it going to take to get him? And I imagine, as you said, a King's ransom is probably pretty accurate. I love that take. But I don't want to commandeer your show, but I do have –

I've been listening to your guys' thoughts on the draft lottery, and I think I have the solution. I think this is like straight to Gary Bettman's office. I think this will work. I really believe it. I love it, DA. What do you got? Oh, my God.

You're awesome right now. I'm going to get something to eat. You keep going. Well, keep going. I want your thoughts. Okay. Look to get something to eat. You keep going. All right, well, KB, you stick around. I want your thoughts. Okay, look, there's three components we have to satisfy here, right? We need the fans to be happy because, let's face it, the fans

are completely dissatisfied with their team's tanking. You know, we're compromising the integrity of the game. There's half a season to be played and there's 10 teams trying to lose. I mean, it doesn't look good. We've got to satisfy the NHL executives. This is a business. We've got to, you know, increase revenues, find revenue streams,

find unique revenue streams that haven't been tapped yet. And finally, you've got the players. You have to factor in the players. Like, why are they incentivized to try and win a game, ultimately to play well, to have a guy like Conor Bedard come and take their job. That's the best point. Yes. How do you meet all those criteria, right?

So here's what I thought, and I've been giving this some thought. I slept on this, and here's what I've come up with. Let me know what you think. I think it hits all three of those components quite nicely. I think at the end of the year, you take the bottom four teams and picture this like an inverted college football playoff. So instead of having the top four teams playing for a championship, you have the bottom four teams playing for a draft lottery.

How does this work? The season this year ends on a Friday, I believe. So picture this. On the Saturday, the team that finishes worst plays the fourth worst finishing team, and the team that finished third worst plays the second worst finishing team. The idea isn't to lose those games. It's to win those games. And then the two winners on the Sunday play,

the ultimate winner of that Final Four gets the number one pick. Why are the players incentivized? Because you say, just like at NBA All-Star Weekend or Baseball Weekend, a million dollars to the team that wins the Final Four. How does the league pay for this? You televise those games. They will be incredibly highly viewed between the end of the regular season and the start of the Stanley Cup playoffs.

So for one twentieth of a million dollars, I get to lose my job to Conor Bedard if I have a big weekend? You're nuts. No, no, no. Hold on a second. Hold on a second. of a million dollars I get to lose my job to Conor Bedard if I have a big weekend? You're nuts. Hold on a second. Someone's losing their job to Conor Bedard anyway. And no one's satisfied right now with just teams flailing around trying to lose.

So this keeps the integrity of the game. And quite frankly, only one guy is going to lose his job to a Conor bedard uh you know the other 19 are gonna end up with 50 000 you know a million dollars divided by 20 that wasn't going to be in their pocket at the end of the season otherwise so i don't think it's such a bad compromise to be honest with you i give you an a for creativity i really do i just feel like there'd be such shame playing in the toilet bowl, as they would have to call it, for the bottom teams to, you know.

Well, I mean, Nick can speak to this. Do players ever play to lose? Not really. Management set up a team to put them in a bad position to win a game. But players never go off that stage for trying to lose. So, as a player, I think you want to win these things. Yeah. It just, it would have to pass the smell test through the NHL Players Association, and you're adding more games, and I just don't see it. I like the idea.

Yeah. I think, yeah, I'm dead serious when I say it's creative. Yes. For sure. And I love the thought that you're not rewarding just fading into the sunset. Right. I get that. But I just don't know. If they're going to do extra gates, it'll go into a wild card for maybe a last playoff spot before it would go into drafting a player.

I just also think that like your best guys, your highest paid guys. So San Jose's in it, you know, look at 50 grand or whatever. DA it's Eric Carlson, Eric, if we win this, you know, we got a good pick. And he's like, I got to play two extra games to make 28 grand after tax. I'm good. I get your idea. I get the, I like what's happening. What happens when there isn't a Conor Bedard?

You're playing for Slovakian Engvall? Now you guys are just pouring on. My son is laughing at me. He's like snickering. I'm driving him home from school. He's doing the two thumbs down emoji to me. It's not pleasant, guys. I've lost whatever credibility I had with my son. My son is gone. He's pretty lacking at the start of this conversation. I'm so keeping it. It's not a pleasant, guys. I've lost whatever credibility I had with my son is gone.

I'm pretty lacking at the start of this conversation. I feel good about this. Listen, is it flawed? Sure. Are there question marks surrounding it? Absolutely. However, you know, we're at a loss right now. Like this whole notion of, well, we'll lower the odds.

We'll make it less likely if you finish last. It's not working. And how many Conor Bedards are there? You know, this is a rare year, and I get it. I get all the points you're bringing up, but I don't think you're ever going to have a situation where you're going to have 100% of people in agreement. And I think, if nothing else, 100%, this would be a ratings bonanza.

It would be a league revenue generator. It'd be huge this year for sure yeah and listen if you don't want to play the 83rd and 84th game which i hear your point from an nhlpa standpoint don't finish in the bottom four i mean you're incentivized to win even more than so you want you want those extra couple of days to start your your summer break then sure like just don't finish in the bottom four you can't really stretch it out to eight teams or anything like that it's got to be pretty quick and tidy. And to me, two games the day after the season ends

and then the final of these bottom four the following day is something that could be neatly packaged. Someone would, you know, Sportsnet would probably be all over it. The NHL could generate revenue. Those three home games could generate some revenue. The players get a little taste of the money. I mean, I see some benefits to it. And at least you say a team earned the first overall pick.

They weren't just handed. You know, how dissatisfying. I mean, listen, every single year some team wins the draft lottery and no fan base likes it. None. Except the team that wins the lottery. Everyone, oh, the Devils moved up 10 spots. Why did they get Heaster?

Oh, you know, Austin Matthews. Why is he going to the Leafs? And everyone else is pissed. And this is at least a did they get Heister? Oh, you know, Austin Matthews, why is he going to the Leafs? And everyone else is pissed. And this is at least a way to say, okay, well, you know what? The players went out there and it was decided on the ice. Well, one team who would be more than eager to get into that tournament, well, one fan base that would want to get into it, he was on Monday Night Hockey last night, the Vancouver Canucks.

Sorry, that wasn't last night. Ignore me, that part of it um but the vancouver canucks would love to their fan base would love for them to get in that sort of situation they blow a three goal lead to the pittsburgh penguins yet again bruce budros i don't even know what this guy thinks or how he deals with this but what are your thoughts and what's going on with this canucks team that just continues to find new, somewhat humiliating ways to go through the season? Yeah, I was watching the game. We were doing the intermissions,

Luke Gatzik and I, and honestly it's... They went up 3-0, and Luke and I kind of turned to each other and said, okay, Penguins win this game, and we chuckled. And then the Penguins scored three goals in the next six minutes. We're like, oh my god uh you know honestly they could have been caved in much more than losing five to four i it was pretty shocking the lack of defensive structure we saw and whether you want to

put this on bruce boudreaux you know i think you can put it on the personnel and the fact that management didn't really go out and address what they really needed, the elephant in the room of that they needed to bulk up their defense. And instead, they went out and signed Mikheyev and some other forwards. And it just seems like between the personnel and the lack of structure, it's a recipe for disaster, especially in today's NHL, where it's hard to defend on the best of days. And we saw last night, no lead is safe. But when you're the Vancouver Canucks, it just seems,

you know, I asked Luke at one point, is this, is this a psychological thing or a physical thing? And he said, it's probably a combination. You know, they start their very first game of the year.

Guys, you probably remember this. They were up three, nothing on the Edmonton Oilers. And they lost that game. I think five to three. And that was it. The avalanche started on night one of the NHL season.

It's, it's very curious to see what's going to happen there and I just keep wondering, we're waiting for the first shoe to drop, whether it's a change in coaching, whether it's a big trade, everyone's talking about what's going to happen with Bo Horvat. We just want something to happen and then we can sort of officially see the direction

this team's trying to take because right now they just seem to be, they're running in mud and it's not pretty to see we're talking to david amber host of rogers monday night hockey on sportsnet hey you mentioned yeah that was pretty good wasn't it that was very good hey uh you you mentioned uh like something to drop in vancouver and i i get the bohor that thing hasn't happened yet because we know where teams are up against the cap especially the contending ones and they're gonna have to uh allocate more cap space the longer the season goes on to to pick up a guy like that so we assume that that's going to happen

at the deadline here but the mere fact that bruce budro out there. I'm watching an interview the other day and hearing the crack in his voice talking about there's still hope, there's still time. Is that the biggest surprise that a market like Vancouver, David, would just sit there and do nothing regarding this? Well, it seems so strange, Nick,

simply because it's not the time of the season it is, because we're only halfway through it, as Bruce said. It's that this soap opera started when they lost their first seven games. The soap opera started in their first road trip. Their first five games on the road, they lost them all.

Some of them in humiliating and dramatic fashion, blowing two and three goal leads, and already people were like, okay, this isn't working. We've got to blow it up. You had Jim Rutherford talking in the media. You had Bruce Boudreaux saying things about the players. You had the players going back and forth.

It got so ugly right away, and it's been 11 weeks since then or 10 weeks since then. So we've all been sort of waiting. How is this going to unfold, and why is it taking so long? And there's been these sort of little small snippets of, oh, they've won three in a row. Here they go. And last year, I honestly did believe, you know, that they could get back into the playoff case.

I really believe that even though they were in the depths of despair until they, you know, changed coaches in December. This year, it's just felt so different from day one. This team has just felt off. The chemistry has just seemed to be off. And the whole bring in the new management, so let's get the identity of this management on this team. I'm baffled a little bit like you.

We all keep waiting. I understand these are big decisions. You take a measured approach when you make these types of big decisions, but it's taking a long time and you know there's you know again they're running in mud here in a situation where you know had they you know acted earlier who knows and i'm not saying about bruce boudreaux necessarily but just how they sort of defined what are here's what we're doing and let's go about doing it maybe they'd be in a much better position to draft conor bedard or maybe they'd be in a much better position to draft Connor Bedard, or maybe they'd be in a much better position to make a playoffs.

I don't know. But the inactiveness of the situation is a bit startling to me as well. DA, I consider you Sportsnet's Canadian hockey correspondent. You always have a pulse on what's going on with every Canadian team. What are we looking at? Did you say pulse or pom-poms? Yes, you're a Canadian hockey cheerleader. Where are we looking at? Did you say false or pom-poms? Yes, you're a Canadian hockey cheerleader. Where are we at? What's the assessment?

How many Canadian teams are we going to get in the postseason this year? Oh, you're asking me at such a bad time. It's a bit of a down moment, I admit. I'm sorry, man. I'm sorry. Okay, we'll call you next week. I was in a text chain and I was just like, look at the last 72 hours for the Canadian teams, right?

Last night, Winnipeg loses in Detroit. Calgary blows a two-goal lead. Who else lost yesterday? Vancouver lost, and as we said, they blew a three-goal lead. The night before, both Ottawa and Montreal got shut out. It's not looking – Oilers lost, yeah. Yeah, it's just – it's not looking –

Yeah, exactly. The Oilers lost to L.A. It's not looking... Yeah, it's just... It's not looking... Yeah, exactly. The Oilers lost to LA. It's just not looking that great right now. I'm pretty concerned about the two Alberta teams. Toronto's playing consistently and quite good. And I think there's definitely some positivity and optimism there. Winnipeg's playing out of their minds. They might be Canada's best hope to get the Cup back here

for the first time in 30 years. But the two teams in Alberta, I just, I don't know what to make of it. You guys, I know, talk at length about the other Canadian teams here. And, you know, Calgary, I love the individual parts. And I really actually thought they might be a better, more balanced team this year. But the sum of the parts, it has not worked out at all. They've had two three-game winning streaks all year. That's not what juggernauts do. That's not what Stanley Cup-caliber teams do. They get hot, and they run hot, and they bury opponents. And Calgary last night, another perfect example,

against the depleted St. Louis team, a 3-1 lead going into the third, and within a 30-second span, it's a tie game. They lose in overtime. That's not what Stanley Cup-caliber teams do night in, night out, and they've been in 25 one-goal games. They're playing a lot of close games. I'm sure that will suit them. You know, that sometimes helps the team,

but they're losing the large majority of those games. So I'm concerned. You know, Montreal and Ottawa, you know, and Vancouver, we understand where they're at, and, you know, maybe if the balls fall right for Montreal, who knows, maybe they'll get Conor Bedard, right? They have their pick. They have Florida's pick. So they might have two shots at it.

But, you know, the Alberta situation, I'm concerned. You guys have talked about it, right? Like they're so top-heavy, the Edmonton Oilers, and they need more balance. They need Evander Kane back, and if not Evander Kane, they need someone else to help out. They need a defender, and the bullpenning's been questionable. So

I'm concerned. My thoughts were those might be the class of the Pacific Division going into this season, and I'm not sure that's the case anymore. For the Oilers, if not needing one defenseman, needing two. So let me ask you, Canadian Corresponder, which general manager makes a bolder move by the trade deadline,

Ken Holland in Edmonton or Kyle Dubas in Toronto? Oh, boy. I'm going to say, at this point, I'm going to say my money might be on Kyle Dubas. And the reason is, you know, all signs indicate, you know, that Jake Muzzin might not be back, right? And that gives a little bit of money to play with. That gives a little bit of leeway to move with. You know, if we knew Evander Kane wouldn't be back until the playoffs,

then that would open up some cap possibilities for the Oilers. But I think Kyle Dubas, he's shown himself to be shrewd at times and to find maybe some of this under valued talent, you know, like Michael Bunting's a great example.

And he's done that in the past with when they brought in Tyler Ennis, they brought in different guys and kind of go, hmm, that's been kind of below the radar stuff. I could see him doing something shrewd. And, you know, when you said the word bold, I'm not sure either of these teams can be as bold, let's say, as Boston or Colorado or some of these other teams, because I'm just not sure. You know, in the Leafs' case, they have the prospects to get that done. You know, the Nick Robertson injury, guys,

and you've talked about it on your show, I'm a frequent listener, I mean, that's damaging not just because you miss him in the lineup but because you miss him gaining some traction as someone you could deal ultimately. You know, his value isn't where it would be. He's now just known as a guy who gets injured a lot. And I'm not sure they want to deal Matthew Nye. So, like, what is the prospect pool?

What is the draft pick pool for the Leafs? What does that allow them to do to do something really bold in the Matias Ackholm, Bo Horvat, Ryan O'Reilly scope of things? I just don't know, and I think there's going to be greater suitors out there in some of these other markets that have a bit more cap flexibility. And Edmonton's under the same structure. They've got their same issues there. So I'm not sure either of them will be bold,

but I do think Kyle Dubas has a little bit of wiggle room, and he's proven himself to be pretty shrewd when push comes to shove, finding guys a little bit under the radar. He won't be as good on Monday nights as he is on our show, but you can still catch David Amber on Rogers Monday Night Hockey on Sportsnet. Nailed it. Thanks for doing this, pal. That was true.

Hey, guys, I love listening to the show. Enjoy the game tonight. It should be fun. David Amber. Thanks, buddy. What a guy. Yeah, what a guy. I just can't believe he lost sleep thinking about

Conor Bedard going to a team that is playing extra games do you think you think that would ever have any traction that so like here's the thing love da yes didn't don't want to be too critical because it's good to think of new ways to go at this that that's just not going to work. That is just not going to work. That idea is just not going to work. It's not. That's kind of massaged in the fact that you think it's just a dumb idea. Well, it's good, though.

It's one of those things. Everyone throws something at the wall. We'll see what sticks. That doesn't stick for me. You know, if you're the 26th place team. At least he's trying. You tank to get in it. What's the motivation to play for varying guys?

Something has to get done. I stand with DA's idea. It's a great idea. I just don't even know how you can think it's a good idea at all. I think it's just a lot more realistic that they invent qualifying rounds. Yes. Like we saw in the bubble. Like wild card play-ins and stuff like that yeah remember when

the leafs missed the playoffs yes officially yes i do missed the playoffs by the record books they're calling you playoffs yeah yeah they didn't qualify for the official playoffs we're more more up to see that yes then there's something to play for playing playing built to win a stanley cup right over a draft pick yeah or for yeah you know 30 grand or whatever the it is after taxes or for french guy for your job or and it just opens up a can of worms and you can still tank to get in that tournament you still got a tank to get in that tournament next thing you know bottom four you're adding games for the waiver wire now and truly though like right now you're trying to get in the bottom four right still

that's still the same scenario so i think what you said was it yesterday or whatever day that was we were talking about it i think the everybody outside the playoffs gets the equal shot yeah you miss playoffs here's your you get one you get one kick in it i think that's probably the best idea da's yelling at me on on text now fans would love it it's an entertainment business and it is it's an entertainment business no argument for me there we need to remember that more not no it's not wait i just found it's not just i don't know what side are you on i'm in the winning business. I think that's a very important distinction.

The NHL doesn't care who wins. Would it matter if you can only win the lottery once every five years? Would that change anything? I don't know. I mean, it would change something. I don't know. Would Montreal be doing anything different now, not selling their guys? I don't know. Again, it really you're going out of

your way david wouldn't be in edmonton that's for sure if if your team's general manager is an idiot then nothing can help them if you make bad decisions if you don't develop properly, then what are you going out of your way to kiss the ass of the 32nd worst team in the league? Yeah, I agree that we're like, it's good to work on some sort of solution because it's not fun watching right now. You look at the Eastern Conference or at least take the Atlantic Division you know you have three teams that are definitely going to make playoffs halfway through the season and five teams that almost are certain not to at least the Atlantic guys teams are

playing to win by and large outside of Montreal but there's just not enough teams that feel like winning is the important thing Arizona, Chicago, Montreal Anaheim, San Jose, Vancouver, Columbus, Philly. None of them are trying to win every night. Well, the players are, but the teams are not good.

Not good. All right. This will be an ongoing conversation, I think, for the next 40 plus games. It ain't going anywhere and we'll when's the draft lottery we'll whine and complain about it the draft lottery is that like during the first round of the playoff yeah don't they usually do it like an intermission of a random game yeah exciting for some fans i remember i'll never forget that the connor mcdavid won and i had plans the buddies to meet up like downtown to go drink beers if the Leafs won it.

Like I remember sitting there watching that like that was a Stanley Cup final. They didn't get it. I remember watching the Matthews one like that. Sitting in old York in the West End and just. No look on Shani's face when they got it. Yeah. Just big smile. But one lottery ball away from McDavid for the Leafs.

Well, and didn't it kind of come up and then it like. So that was Lafreniere. Lafreniere, that's right, yeah. But they were... I'll never forgive our boy Chris Johnston. He tweeted out that piece of information. That they had like eight lottery balls or something insane. That they had by far the best chance going into the last ball.

Yeah. And they didn't get it with McDavid. I'll never... You know what? I know Matthews is great, but I'll never get over that. That'll always be in the background. He's signing here when he's done in Edmonton anyways it's all good there you go specter on line one for sammy mckee mark a shrink on line two okay we're gonna take a quick break jason you're

co-host of the coming in coming in hot sense podcast when did he start this you're not showing a lot of respect to people's programs in their introductions here you know what i'm gonna ask him after the break okay fine do it i just found out about david's show on monday i'm on a roll right now the disrespect oh stop it i'm kidding i'm kidding we're just having some fun here on the real kipper and Boren show back after these words with Jason York. This is real Kipper and Boren on Sportsnet 590. The fan. I think that's my cue to talk.

I hope it's not mine. What are you munching on? You're sneaking in something on me. I'll eat the blood sugar up. Stay energetic. I don't know. Am I old? I can't wait for you to see you in another 15 years.

I was never meant to be young. I'm looking forward to being an old guy. No, no, it's not the looking part. It's just the growing part. You think my chocolate bar per bar habit is going to uh when the calories stop burning as quickly maybe something jason york knows something about because i sure do let's welcome in yorkie co-host of the coming in hot sense podcast you you're with wallace and bobby ryan on this thing how's it going oh bringing the heat on coming in hot it's uh the podcast the podcast world is a lot of fun because you you're kind of like

how do i how do i explain this you're kind of like r Rick bonus coaching the Winnipeg jets right now. You just do whatever you want because you don't care anymore. It's just like bonus rolls into Winnipeg strips, the CD off Blake. We were actually talking about this on the show the other day. And like, how many guys would have the nuts to go in and do that? Like,

because if it doesn't, because if it doesn't work, you're probably, you're probably getting fired, but it doesn't because if it doesn't work you're probably you probably get fired but he goes in there it works and they're winning and uh no it's uh well the podcast world's fun uh and bobby ryan's been great guys he's uh he's uh he's a lot of fun to work with he i'm feeding off his young energy kipper so uh kind of like you with barney oh yeah that's great. Well, that's awesome.

So you guys have had a very interesting Sens team to talk about this year. Give us an update. Give us the state of the union on the Sens. Where are things at? Where are they hoping to go in this second half? State of the union? Well, it depends on who you talk to, Barney. If you talk to the fans, they want playoffs.

They like the team. But if you're going to be really honest assessing the Ottawa Senators, they're going to be a team that, by all accounts, is probably going to be on the outside looking in when it's all said and done. But they're an exciting team to watch because with young teams, they make mistakes. And when they're good, they're really good. And when they make mistakes, they're big mistakes.

But that's a young team. You look at them down the middle, they've got one of the bright young players in the game, and Tim Stutzla, who's done a real nice job stepping in to be in that number one center. He's a lot of fun to watch, guys. He is going to be a legitimate star in this league. He's just turning 21 this month, and I think the world of him. I just think this current edition of the Ottawa Senators, they're about two defensemen short on the back end

and a four to two from being a really good team. But they will be in time, and I've said this all along. I just think expectations when the general manager pierre dorian came out i think people might have read what he was saying the wrong the wrong way he came out and he said they want to play meaningful games and that's what they're doing they're playing meaningful games meaningful games doesn't mean you're going to be a playoff team and i think that's where a little bit of things got lost in translation but you know they're right around that 500 mark after a really tough

start I think DJ Smith has done a nice job the players want to play for him Brady Kachuk's been a good story he's going to the all-star game and besides the last couple games they were starting to get some really good goal tending

Talbot has after a slow start, has done a nice job. In my opinion, guys, they're about two years away from being a really good hockey team. Yorkie, there was a sense going into this season that from people that I've talked

to, that there was a feeling that if Pierre Dorian didn't make the playoffs this year, he would lose his job and i'm just wondering if uh if the sale of the team now almost can give him a a do-over or someone fresh set of eyes i'm my understanding is there might be some certain groups that would want to build their own hockey department but yeah is is there a sense that somehow some way through this sale that dorian can actually stay no okay yeah and listen listen this is i don't want to joke around about people's lives. No, no, we don't. That's the hockey world. That is how the hockey world works.

Listen, I was a player, and I got signed by Pierre Gauthier in Anaheim. When Pierre Gauthier got fired and the new general manager, Brian Murray, came out, I was out of it. That's just part of the business. It is a surprise here. I'm not saying something that people don't know. It is a cutthroat business. So whoever buys this team is going to bring in their own people.

That's just how it works. I would be shocked. And I'm not saying Dorian's done a bad job. I think he's done a nice job with the draft. I think this team is humming along nicely here. But that's the reality of the hockey world.

They're going to bring in their own people, and it's going to be a clean slate. It's going to be a clean start. I don't think everyone's going to – I like young Ryan Bowness there who's coming in as assistant general manager. You'll have to keep some things in part. That's just my personal opinion, guys, on what I know how the hockey world works.

I know whoever buys this team is going to bring in someone that they're really familiar with, someone they trust. It's all about trust. And we all know the backstabbing that goes on in the hockey world, Kipper. It's a vicious, cutthroat business. And you always want people around you who you can trust who you know familiarity and that's that's that's just the cold hard truth of how at least i know how the hockey world works and kipper i i'd be shocked if you didn't feel the same way and borny borny you you've been in the hospital one. It's just the way it is. You know, so where is the ownership situation at right now?

Is there any closer to making decisions on that front? As far as the sale of the team, Barney? Yeah. So what I'm hearing, what everybody else is hearing, there's been the data room, there is a delay, and people getting the books and getting in there and doing their due diligence um so i timeline um if i was taking educated guests i think talks will probably get serious in sometime in february and march i'm hearing the same thing everybody else is i'm hearing there's two serious players um you got the Kimmel group out of

Toronto and you got uh Andlauer out of Hamilton those are the names I keep hearing um and then whoever gets it there's there's a contingent here in Ottawa the Ottawa group who I know would love to get involved but um if I was a betting man and if I was going to put money on I I know with with Michael Landauer he'sauer, he owns right now, he's 20 or 25% of the Montreal Canadiens. His son, I believe, works in the NHL office. There's a relationship there. There's trust.

The NHL, one thing I do know, guys, is when you put your stamp of approval, when Gary Bettman puts his stamp of approval, he wants to make darn well certain that these owners are going to come in and do the right things. And so many times NHL has been burned in the past. You look at LA, with Bruce McNally, you look at the Islanders, you look when Barry was involved with Tampa. So the last thing they want to do is sell the team to the wrong group.

And I look at, for me, Michael Arndlauer checks all the boxes that the NHL is looking for. So they're not looking at the John Spano, Jim Balsillie group then, Kipper? You don't think those guys are – I don't think the league would like that. Listen, with what we've seen in the past just keep your guard up that's fair enough we're talking a former national hockey league and broadcaster uh jason york uh yorkie the name the brinkett a guy that they just absolutely gave up a ton moving forward for now needs at least a $9 million qualifying offer.

If I'm not mistaken, or he walks out the door, where is he long-term in your eyes? So in my eyes and I've gotten, I've had Ottawa fans all over me on Twitter. I, cause I listen, he's going to get paid. I've had Ottawa fans all over me on Twitter. Listen, he's going to get paid.

Someone is going to pay him because there's just not that many guys in the NHL that can put the puck in the back of a net, and he can do that. But when I look at the current setup of the Ottawa Senators and the guys they already have money committed to, i.e. Stutzler, you've got Giroud for three more years, you've got Brady Kachuk, you've got Norris, you've got Bathurst. I just don't know where he fits because for me, the pressing need if the Ottawa Senators are going to take the next step, they need to do what the Boston Bruins do. Look at what Hapus Lindholm has done for the Boston Bruins.

They need to spend money on a legitimate top four defenseman. So if they're going to go out and give Debrinkit $9 million or whatever they're going to do, maybe they give them a long-term deal and that number comes down. It's going to be awfully hard with the salary cap situation. And don't forget, in about a year's time from now, Jake Sanderson is going to make a lot of money. He's going to be a six-plus, maybe $8 million defenseman.

So I don't see where it fits. Maybe they can get creative. And two, when I look at a team, guys, I think your important needs are center iceman and defenseman. They've already got guys on their team on the wings. Brady Kachuk is their unquestioned number one left winger. He's the captain. Alex Dabrinkit plays the exact same position.

So are you going to play your second-line left winger, $9 million? I just don't think it makes sense. And I think on another team, Dabrinkit, he's a guy you build your team around and you give him a long-term deal i just for me i don't see the fit long term even though i love the player i think he's a tremendous talent he makes guys around them better i just for me i think they need to they need to spend some money on that blue line this was a first a second a third pick like how do you give up that much? Would you trade him, Kipper? Would you trade him at the deadline, try to get

him to? I would, yes. I would. I'd have to recoup some of that, but that is a very big miss by Pierre Dorian. If you don't, if you never envision signing this guy to a long-term contract after giving up so

much of your future? So I'll give you my personal take on it, guys. In the summer here in Ottawa over the years, it's been doom and gloom. When Eugene Nolik was still alive and on the team, it was always a sell-off. It was always getting rid of players. And they were really starting to lose the fan base here. Fans were getting disengaged with the franchise. This was the first time in a long time in the summertime where people were excited. And I think with the pending sale of the team,

I think there was an agenda to go out there and make some noise in the summer, to make this team more attractive, to make people say, hey, the Ottawa Senators are back. And I believe they accomplished that. They got a buzz going. They went out and made two huge moves with Jeroen to break it. I don't know, and this is just me taking educated guess,

that those moves were made with long-term future in the mind. I think it was more to get the brand. Pump the assets. The old pump and dump, right? Pump it up, then dump it. And I still think they can recoup something for him, Kipper. Maybe it's not made at the deadline. Maybe that's a trade you make at the draft

when you've got more guys that can come to the dance with you. Because he is still a young guy. He's put up numbers, and you'll get more interest at the draft. So I'm with you. As much as I like him as a player. No, they're screwed. They're screwed. No, they're screwed.

I'm telling you. Why would you trade for a guy when he's going to be, first of all, his qualifying offer is $9 million, so it's like you're signing a free agent to a one-year deal and then walk him out the're signing a free agent to a one-year deal and then walk him out the door as a free agent. Why would you give up meaningful assets to do that?

So the one thing I'm hearing is he really likes it here in Ottawa, which nobody ever says they don't like it in a place while they're trying it out. Is there a chance they can sign him for a less dollar amount? Seven and a half well that to me that's that makes sense right because you can't pay him more than brady kachuk tim stutzler is their most talented player and he's a center iceman you can't pay him more than stutzler so

will he takes if you if you can fit him in at that number it probably makes more sense but if you're to break it you're a two-time 40-goal scorer. Why would you take less? Because you can get – someone's going to pay him because he's a legitimate top six player in this league. So we'll see. Time will tell, guys. It's very interesting, though.

Yeah, anytime you've got a guy who scores 40 goals in the league, that's going to cost you a couple of bucks. So that makes some sense. You know, one place where there's a number of that, of those type players is here in Toronto. Yorkie, be remiss if I didn't ask you your thoughts on where the Leafs are at. Kind of stuck in this Tampa Bay Lightning

first round matchup for half a season. Yorkie, they got 40 exhibition games to play here. It's nice. Barney, you always ask me the Toronto question. That's what I love about you. I think I've been on this show with you guys three times and I keep telling you the same thing. Toronto's season doesn't start until the playoffs.

This doesn't matter, eh? They got off to a bad start and you guys asked me, what do you think about Toronto? I'm like, don't worry about Toronto. They're going to win. They're a regular season team. The heat comes come playoff. I can't wait. It's the most exciting time of year for me because everybody, myself

included, are fascinated to see what the Toronto Maple Leafs are going to do because that's the real pressure, guys. I don't care how many player games Austin Matthews and Compe Tavares is playing better, Mitch Marner

we all know and they know it too that the heat's coming springtime so I'm getting my popcorn ready guys and I am excited to see them in the playoffs again because man it's like you said Gourney this division is tough to get out of

Our producer Sammy agrees with you. It's going to be an exciting two weeks for Sammy as well. Yeah, good one. Yeesh. You're so angry already. I love it. I love making Sammy cringe. Not this year, Yorkie.

Not this year. They're going all the way, baby. I think they're going to win a round this year. I do. I think they're going to win a playoff round. The future of the show depends on it. You know that, right? Quite literally. It's very important to me. It's good for business.

All right. Well, at least you're not driving on the highway this time for us. We really appreciate that. No problem, fellas. Always a pleasure, guys. Love to come on and chat, guys. Take care. All right. Jason York. He's hilarious. He is.

So, like, when Kipper gets a text message, a Newfoundland sounds like a Newfoundland dog barking. And it is a dog pound today. Send me a text. What? Just send me a text. Send Kipper a text.

I'm texting right now. You know what it is? What? Is it WhatsApp? Here. Hello? I just texted you, hey. Okay.

I don't know how to shut it off. It is a literal dog pound in the studio today. I don't know what's going on. There's a clip on the side that makes it silent. Done. There you go. Silenced. What's going on? Did Nylander get traded? What happened? I don't know. I don't know. All right.

Well, I do know. I do know. My daughter's luggage went missing. Oh, that'll get you a few texts. And apparently I'm the guy to try to find it right now. Oh, yeah. During our show. Isn't that funny how that works?

They're all out of hot dog buns at the store. Why am I getting a text about that? I'm not going to tell you which airline because I'm not that guy. By the way't be that guy no i try so hard not to be i'm not that guy what the the airport texture guy just like deer at delta the guy reclined his seat into my uh row on the last flight i mean that's a very popular media thing well very popular and if you've got like hundreds of thousands of followers that's just total uh entitlement isn't it a little bit yeah like we we should suffer like everyone else right like i i am the number one most lucky traveler of all time like i really never have an issue ever i Knock on wood. I'm past knocking on wood.

I've been doing this for, I've been traveling my whole life and I've never lost a bag. I'm playing with house money way, way past it. I'm past curses. I've won 10 cups. It doesn't matter to me. I just brag about it all the time. I flew in to Pearson

when I came back from Mexico and I was in and out in an hour. Got all my bags through customs. Post snowstorm here. Well, everybody told you they love the real Kipper and Bourne stuff. It is a thing with you, though, the whole charmed life thing. You know, Sammy just has a really charmed life. You think so?

Yeah, you know the right people to make things. Golf and sports and, I don't know, you're sprinkled in a marriage. I mean, it's all good. One of those guys like Mr. Bean that just stumbles around, things go well all the time. What's going on with that guy? Yeah.

Maybe my favorite team could win a playoff round. That's the cost, the true cost. That's my crutch. So where do you want to go now? Well, just kind of want to revisit a little bit the edmonton oilers and the toronto maple leafs who once we get past vancouver moving bohorvat yes the winnipeg jets are right there but i just don't know if if they're in a position to be bold kevin chevalday off is probably looking at a a team right now that probably has surprised them that they were able they're able

to now compete coming off i know a tough loss against detroit but they're right there but how much bolder could Winnipeg get when you look at the pressure of Edmonton and Toronto like the pressure for Kevin Chevaldeoff doesn't even it pales in comparison to what people are looking at Edmonton and Toronto to do to go to another level do you feel like Chevaldeoff's a little bit like David Poyle in that he's been there for a long time? He obviously just endured one hell of a hurricane last season. You know, is the ice thin for him if things don't go well in terms of pressure? I think that certainly a solid season here

and a playoff picture would kind of lock him in, I think, moving forward and give him the time to make some tough decisions with Mark Chipman. And that is, what do we do with Shifley? What do we do to sign Connor Hellebuck to a long-term deal? Those are big decisions. He could re-sign this summer, Shifley. He's got one

more year on his deal before UFA? This year and one more, yeah. Those are tough decisions. It's not Edmonton and it's not Toronto. We're signing Mark Shifley at all costs is mark shifley to you a 10 million dollar player right now well i think there's a lot of people and particularly

people from winnipeg who would say how can you say he's not but i personally just my own preference on players would wouldn't want a long-term deal with Marsha. Like in terms of $10 million times seven years or eight years or whatever that might cost. Just age goes into that and some slowing down. He's 30 years old this March. So in two months, he's 30. And I kind of feel for general managers that the system is really flawed.

The CBA is so flawed for so many different reasons but the one is you're damned if you do you're damned if you don't okay don't want to pay shifley don't want to go the extra years go try and replace them right now right and in particular winnipeg that is a much larger challenge and i think it gives the player a lot of leverage because it's tough to get players there you know we've had mike fuda came on the show uh i don't know whenever it was a week or two ago and mentioned that he's aware of some bigger names that have blocked trades there in the past guys that they've had deals okay just got to get the player on board and you can't get the player on board. So it's harder to get people to choose Winnipeg because it's not Florida in the winter.

Winnipeg is the birthplace of winter. It's actually where they invented it. Yes, it is. Dave Winter is from there. And unfortunately, there's a lot of it, the winter. As far as the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Edmonton Oilers, to me, they absolutely mirror each other. I see it right uh questionable

goaltending superstars in their prime superstars in their prime need help on defense people would quibble there maybe edmonton might be slightly ahead when you think about they get a top six winger coming back in Evander Kane. Yeah, but they're also bad right now. Yeah, they are bad. And they're much worse on the blue line than the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yeah, their right side is not good. are looking for maybe some help. The Oilers are looking for like a lifeguard here. Yeah, they need the full motorized lifeboat.

Their head is below water. Yeah. Their right side is Cody, CeCe, Tyson, Barry, Evan Bouchard. So their problem is finding someone to play with Nurse, and Barry can't do it. you saw his defensive mishaps evan bouchard is green and offensive first as well so cody cc's the default number one right d i'm i'm thinking ken holland may be at that time fourth year on a five-year deal like this is this is going for broke right now towards the trade deadline that hurts the leafs i think because they have comparable needs or at least at this position and their willingness to spend and desperation to do

everything they can not to mention you know if the if the Oilers grab a couple of good players, it's not hard to see them winning playoff rounds again. Really not hard at all. Right? If they were to get two good defenders. Okay. I'm totally seeing what you're talking about right now. And I think it's doable.

I mean, maybe it's doable I mean maybe it's a long shot but of course it is it always is in the sport it's doable like and I it's two defensemen for me for the Edmonton Oilers Kipper the number one teams in the Central and the Pacific are Dallas and Vegas how

much of a favorite are they with Evander came back and two new players for the Oilers like any maybe a little for the Oilers? Like any? Maybe a little? Like the Oilers can beat anyone. Yeah, they can lose to anyone too. I don't know. Edmondson.

For sure. Go get Edmondson and go get Eric Carlson. No, I'm telling you. Yeah? Yeah. It's going to cost you a lot, but that's what I would do if the Edmonton Oilers. Boy, tough to be Edmonton and think. I'm surprised you didn't say Chikrin.

No Chikrin? I'd rather see Carlson and McDavid. Chikrin helped out. Carlson and McDavid. Oh, my goodness. The speed. Sonic the Hedgehog just spinning around out there. You got to unload money, though, and that's the key here.

So you got to lose Tyson Barry's 4.5. That's a lot. Good luck. You can find some of that. Yeah, you can. If you're sprinkling it with first-round picks and it's going to cost you Broberg, their first-round defenseman of a few years ago,

things are doable guys obviously the key there's two keys and again this is why we're talking long shot here is San Jose will have to eat money

yeah for many years that's the problem but he's showing that he can be elite still you're less scared than you were a year ago on eric carlson and you want it to go the way that matt murray went with toronto where you say we'll take less if we only have to eat 25 we want to get rid of as much money as we can the other thing is he's got a no move he has to say i want to get rid of as much money as we can. The other thing is he's got a no move. He has to say, I want to go play with McDavid where it's really cold. He's on a surfboard right now. Just like, probably not going to do that, Nick.

That's bold. Yeah. If the Oilers get Carlson and another good player, they'll be good. Yeah, I know. That's a great point. Can I remind you that I got two hours on this show and we got to talk about something? They stink.

No, I don't think that they stink. They just need some help on the blue line. They don't stink. As presently constituted, they stink. Evander Kane comes back. Hyman. Nugent Hopkins is having a good year. This is actually a nice thing. Dreisaitl. Mc back. Hyman. Nugent Hopkins is having a good year. This is actually a nice thing.

Dreisaitl. McDavid. Hyman. Worth the money. Okay. So I got some Hyman stuff to give you whenever you're ready for numbers. Okay. Are we not going into factor fiction or?

Useful or useless? We're going to do burning questions. It's the same thing when we're talking analytics. We're going to do burning questions. It's the same thing when we're talking analytics. We're going to do burning questions, Kipper, okay? Burning questions. Your favorite color is? Who's going to win the scoring title? I'm burning questions.

All right. Here we go. Do you want the Hyman-related stuff first? Just at random? Here are the top five in the NHL in shots from the slot. Matthews is number one. Do you want to take a guess at number two? He's a very good goal scorer, historically.

Marchand, Pasternak. Pasternak is in the top five. He's a very good goal scorer historically. Marchand, Pasternak. Pasternak is in the top five. He's fifth. Alex Ovechkin is number two. Okay, yeah. Number three is Zach Hyman. We're talking Matthews, Pasternak, Ovechkin, Hyman. Scoring chances off offensive zone play.

Here's the top five there's four names matthews kyle connor mark stone tage thompson third in that group is zach hyman like elite elite offensive creator writes children's books i know i think he's tied with matthews and actual goals maybe he's ahead of him he's three points back of matty's three points back in titan goals five million four checks like hell just i have a little hyman discussion they are conference final close the oilers yes it's just because the rest of the division soft yes and that blue line is just not good enough and if it's when you're so bad in one area and you can fix it up a little bit you can see how they could take real strides yeah and i know soon people are saying edmonton soon the hail mary is i threw out two unbelievable names but it doesn't yeah maybe it's not uh carlson maybe it is chickering and uh edmondson

and then where are they in the pecking order in the west well that certainly changes things significantly you get those two defensemen yeah you're at the top yeah yeah you're you're there you're there with everybody you're right there with everybody yeah and what is edmondson and even a chickering do to your goaltenders which will always be a question mark inexperience from skinner and uh inconsistency from jack campbell but how much better do they get automatically with two better defenders yeah just drastically different i agree that's so that's where the oilers need to go here that's what kenny holland needs to go time to get aggressive two defensemen get your first rounders ready get your prospect ready lose pulley arvey salary lose tyson berry salary

start opening up some room pulley arvey is's an interesting case because, you know, they don't like him. And he's not been good. Given a lot of opportunity. Okay. Does it cost you a third to get rid of him? Get rid of him. Yeah. I think a lot of teams take him.

I think a lot of teams would take him. I don't think it'd cost you that. Okay. Yeah. Good. So first one positive thing, the SportLogic tracks defensive plays, which is like a blocked pass, a blocked shot, just touches involvement in the D zone.

Yes. So forwards, defensive plays in the NHL. Third in the NHL is Patrice Bergeron. 104th in the league total. Doesn't matter. 189 defensive plays. Second in the league is Philip Deneau. He's made 195 defensive plays.

First in the league among philip to know he's made 195 defensive plays first in the league among forwards is austin matthews who is 70 better than to know with 265 defensive plays it was you who has said if he adjusted his game and backed off the goals and picked up this part first in the nhl and defensive plays by a good margin okay okay useful or useless very useful all right i test proves that love that and i was fascinated by that because yeah there's a price to pay yeah and i i love the fact that uh you know even though it's it may be a tough game tonight, learn more about your players. You know what Austin Matthews is going to give you in game one. He will step on the ice.

He will be a dangerous shooter. The most dangerous, if not as dangerous as anyone else on the ice. And that will be a given if he scores 39 goals this year or 60 this year. Yep. Love it. One for your boy uh mitch marner here so opposition dump in recovery to exit so forwards rarely go back on recoveries unless they're guys who drop in and help out the d quite a bit especially wingers especially wingers the top five in the nhl among forwards who help turn dump-ins from the other team into breakouts. It's Kopitar, Deneau, Jordan Stahl, Mitch Marner. So Mitch Marner involved with some elite Selke winning type of guys.

Turning the puck the right way for the Leafs. You know how I feel. He's the key. He's the engine. All of a sudden Tavares is going again. It's because of Mitch Marnerarner you know what's interesting is marner is um in terms of uh possession generating plays or sorry what do they call it possession driving plays he is the top leaf um it's marner neil under matthews who's quite a bit down but top offense generating plays

it's matthews neil under marner in terms of when they get into the other end creating passes whatever so marner does a lot of the work getting the play into the right end of the rink for them um here's some goofy little ones most icings among defensemen toronto maple leaves have one guy who is in the worst the bottom five and icings by a defenseman easy kepper's gonna get hall no it's not halls he's in the mix but he's not in the bottom five in icings by a defenseman easy kepper's gonna get hall no it's not hall's he's in the mix but he's not in the bottom five it's not one of the younger no it's definitely not one of the younger guys it is geo it's geo geo but what this is what interests me so he's he's iced it 26 times this year that seems low look at the group of names he's with though it's

rasmus doline chris letang shane goss despair and dougie hamilton so i don't know if you learn anything from that or not but that's weird to me that it's like a bunch of pretty good offensive guys but guys who take shots down the up the ice or i don't know if it's just a speed thing too for him where he's let the puck do the work well no he's just maybe a little bit more flat footed than a lot of these guys who are just busting the zone i think that's it i think you'd rather let the puck just you know instead of me trying to skate it out or make a play with it uh interesting note on alex kerfoot most icings among leaf forwards, Kerfoot. Most offsides among leafs forwards, Kerfoot.

Most offensive zone penalties on leafs forwards, Kerfoot and Tavares and Bunting, all tied. You know what would be interesting? How many? You know what would be interesting for me? Five. If they were able to break that down into what portion of the game, how many of these are in the last two minutes

when we've seen goalies pulled for two and three minutes to go, two and a half minutes to go. For empty nets? Yeah. And I don't care what era we're in or what statistics say. If you got a chance to not ice the puck, why do they still ice the puck and not give a crap? I don't get that.

Yeah. I'm at the mercy of losing a face-off for giving up a scoring opportunity within, what, seconds with a face-off deep in our zone. I don't understand. If you can just lay one down there or gain the red line, why are they so easy to ice the puck and not give a crap? Yeah, I would say I think games games like the time on the clock has a lot to do with it i think there's the idea that if you score which you have maybe a one in three chance of scoring on a shot from down the rink it ends the game you know you're up to that's the official end of the game whatever if you don't

score what percentage of the time does the other team win the draw and score 10 of the time seven i don't know so i think the but then the puck's in your end and you're i don't think it's as black and white to shoot for the net every time i'm not that far analytically twisted they're all just cookie monsters agree Well, do you think it feels good for the Washington Capitals to run Ovi over the boards when the net's empty? Like, surely he's not the foremost shot-blocking defensive stalwart, is he? Yeah. Maybe. They're not saying anything bad about Ovi.

No, that's good. And don't call him Shirley. We'll leave that with a party. What's that? We'll leave you to say the bad things about Ovi. Yeah, it's been my domain this season. I'm heading to the game tonight. You want me to apologize to that woman that you stepped on her foot last time I took you to the alumni box?

No, step on it again. Send a message for me. Kipper's not going to the game. He's going to the Sherry Club. Not a chance. All they do is just pour me shots there. I don't like it. I'll die like this by the end of the night.

Is that different from our show? All right. Who do we thank? David Amber? Yes. Jason York? Yes. And Willie?

Willie Doncic, former Toronto Blue Jay. How cool is that? Very cool. Who wins tonight? Leafs do, O.T. Wow, without Austin Matthews. Heard it here first. Enjoy the game, everybody.

We're back tomorrow to give you our thoughts on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show.