Real Kyper & Bourne - Atlantic Arms Race Hits Boiling Point

Episode Date: February 27, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee kick it off by reacting to the Leafs aquiring Jake McCabe and Sam Lafferty from the Chicago Blackhawks, what was given up, what they bring and how this changes the dynamic of the Eastern Conference. They also discuss Tampa's trade for Tanner Jeannot, if it was an overpay and how the Leafs' bottom six measures up against the Lightning after both their deals. Jason Bukala joins the show to discuss where McCabe and Lafferty fit, how much they improve the depth and the odd players out of the lineup (34:19). Then, live to Kyle Dubas who speaks to the press about the trade, what's next ahead of the deadline and how the additions will translate to playoff success (56:29). Kyper, Bourne and Sam react to the press conference, and have a conversation about building chemistry mid-season (1:09:50). Finally, winners and losers of the Timo Meier trade, trade talk around the league and Predators GM David Poile retiring with Barry Trotz taking over (1:23:14).The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. The arms race in the Atlantic Division went to another level today. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Derek Brandeo, David Sispumba, and Sammy McKee. Glad you're along for the ride in the next couple hours who knows what's going to happen between now and what 5 p.m eastern because the toronto maple leafs just dropped a big one acquiring jake mccabe sam lafferty a conditional fifth pick in 2024 and a conditional fifth round pick in 25 from chicago in exchange for a conditional 2025 first round pick 2026 second round pick joey anderson some guy i've never heard before pavel gogolov and that's what you have up until now. We go to Friday, 3 p.m. Eastern.

And it's anyone's guess if there's anything left between the Boston Bruins, the Tampa Bay Lightning, and the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yeah. And it feels like the Leafs have to do something else. Well, they can't bring back Matt Murray. He can't play. oh all right let's just hold on let's just get into the nuts and bolts of this one beginning and before you tell me that ain't enough all right let's talk about what this thing means well it means good things jake mccabe

is a good fit for the toronto maple leafs he instantly becomes their leader in hits guys even fought a little bit over his career so we've been looking for that edge food sammy's been clamoring for a butcher he'll do a little butching if that's a way to use the word it's definitely not um so that's great you know he's he's playing 20 minutes a night a night for chicago he is a plus goal differential guy on a terrible blackhawks team great they got him to retain two million so they're only paying him two million he's got two extra years of term after this good fit kipper sammy listen he's uh he's not chikrin he's not ekholm he's not uh gavrikov he's jake mccabe your thoughts on uh the bruiser from chicago i

this is just exciting i i'm really just floored that he did this again in terms of just trading another first round pick yeah like it just i'm getting i'm getting alexanthopolis vibes here boys we're not going down yeah i'm getting i'm getting 2015 alexanthopolis when he traded away you know burned the boats traded away every prospect they had for too low and price and yeah all these different guys it just really feel i was our fun years this is Jays fan. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. They didn't pan out. But, I mean, they won a playoff series, so that was good. So, I just... I am really interested in what McCabe's going to bring.

I feel like this is something that they were sorely needing. A real guy on defense that's going to play on their top four immediately. Another hefty price to pay here. But after you make the first one it seems like it makes a lot of sense to make the second one like you can only be you can't be half all in if you're asking me so either do it all or do nothing so i'm i'm pretty pleased with this trade if i'm going to be honest yeah listen um my thoughts are this is uh good move by Kyle Dubas. No question about that.

Only time will tell if it's enough to beat Tampa or to go against the Boston Bruins. They are much better and much deeper than they were two weeks ago. No question about that. I like the fact, as Sam alluded to in you as well that uh mccabe now is not a rental you didn't cost you a hard first round pick you have him for next year at two million bucks for a guy that potentially can play 20 minutes a night he is we'll wait and see is is he can he be as good as mckay or uh can he be as good as jake muzzin could he have that type of influence is he will he be a poor man's jake muzzin

yeah you know is he at least someone that you can put over the boards trying to protect the lead and feel good that he could hang in front of the net. You know, he's 6'1", 200 pounds, thereabouts, maybe even bigger than that. But he's, you know, he's got some size and some snarl to him. You can YouTube a couple of his hits and, you know, he's thrown a few big ones over his career. So that's encouraging. You know, and Lafferty is a guy we talked about

lacking kind of depth and snarl. This guy, he's also, you know, fought seven times in his career, and he's fast in PKs, and there's some upside there too. No, no question about that. Another legit bottom six energy. Well, Aston Reese is like, oh. Real deal, real deal bottom forward. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm curious, you know know what that ends up looking like the competition at the bottom you talked about last week is getting real you know aston reese had a good week last week i thought because you know the achari edition helped him but also the pressure of like oh i'm the next one out here probably it feels to me like he's the one who falls to 13 and what's a much more feisty aggressive lineup fast too lafferty really fast this just feels like dubas putting his you know what on the table feels like a guy whose job is on the line yeah i won't use the phrase you put last year but he put something on the table last week and this year the whole package oh yeah this time the whole package has been flopped out it's all on the table here yeah and listen you see what tampa did we'll talk about that later you see what boston did

i think this is just kind of the poor man's version of the boston trade with two guys that have a little bit of term right like you traded for a bottom six sort of energy guy that hits and a top four defense but i'm not going to say lafferty and uh mccabe are orlov and hathaway i'm not going to make that but it's a very similar acquisition in terms of what those two guys bring to the respective teams are coming to so it's pretty remarkable to see what this eastern conference is like it's i respect you know i was worried about them making all these trades when does it really give you that much better of a chance to beat Tampa now with this trade and with the way the

Leafs have played since they made the other trade outside of that crappy game in Chicago I am feeling like they have a better chance now like I really do feel like they are deeper and better suited to beat Tampa Bay the upgrade upgrade is there, no question about that. The one thing that stood out the most for me is that this is that alternative. And I don't really see Kyle pushing all his chips in on this. You didn't see this before it happened? Is that what you're saying?

No, no. I don't see this move as pushing all his chips in. This is just another ante up? Well, this is one of those rare deals where he can address a need, which he did, but it didn't cost him necessarily his first rounder. We know it's conditional and it could, but it didn't also cost him Matthew Nyes. And that's where Ch chickering would have gone

and that's where ekholm would have gone and ekholm's out there right now he's available he is available and the feeling was prior to the jake mccabe move that the leafs were in on that along with edmonton but a lot a lot more expensive are you saying you think something could still happen i'm no i i think i think they're pretty much set to be honest with you the only thing is is you alluded to right off the bat could they go and switch out matt murray for something that's a little bit more say dependable yeah that remains to be seen but i don't know in terms of we we think we know how they feel about hull lilligren and sandin so i don't think that there's much more room you can play with yeah so they when murray comes off ltir they will still be over the salary cap 1.5 to 1.8 somewhere in that range so that means someone some

corresponding move has to happen you don't think they can juggle their way through this and play less players good question yeah yeah i think they could yeah i think they probably could find a way to play 20 the rangers have played down one and two men here i can't see them uh given up on a curve foot i can't see them no I can't yeah that's interesting and I agree you know you're looking for depth you want to go the distance this guy does everything for your team he plays 16 17 a night yeah you know the only thing I wonder Kipper is would it be worthwhile to pay someone to take Matt Murray yes you know because then you four and a six four point six has moved out you go from being needing 1.5 in space to having another three to spend

you know then maybe there's a corresponding move the only thing is he's got another year murray does yes so the cost is going to be very expensive unless you find a team who thinks he's could be okay yeah where they've been on pluto yeah fair yeah i mean there are also teams that are not caring if they win remember chicago took mizeric marazic i'm glad he's traded so you don't have to say his name anymore but they took they took him and it cost 26 overall pick, 27th. Yeah, it was not nothing. You ready to give that up for Murray? Well, yeah, would Arizona say, all right, you can have the Jemelka as your backup. We'll take Murray.

It's too high of a price to pay for a guy that you're not grooming anyways to be your number one goalie. Yeah. Now you're just throwing stuff on the wall. Oh, for sure I am. Yeah. But I really don't think that, I mean, this is not throwing something at the wall. It's not. Matt Murray is not.

It's not ideal. No, and Matt Murray is not, it's not the situation you want. A guy who can't play and you're not sure if he can play well when he's in. Yeah. That's, so, you know, whatever they decide to do there to make that money work, I just know we better see Matt Murray this week and get some sense if he can play. Otherwise, you got to do something, even if it costs something. All right.

So I know we've got a Blue Jay game on Sportsnet 590, The Fan. We're glad everybody's aboard on our YouTube channel, Sportsnet Now, I believe. So we got Jason Bukala, correct? Yeah. Coming in in about 20 minutes? We'll call him around 335 perfect former nhl scout he's done a ton of writing even projected uh timo meyer awfully close a jb on uh on the move to new jersey yeah pretty much nailed it you know he called shakir

mcmadulin not sure if i said that right um a pick you know the whole bunch he basically nailed that one and then also this mccabe trade he had dialed in pretty good for the lease as well so we're gonna get his thoughts on on jake mccabe and what he loves about this move or doesn't remains to be seen we believe kyle dubas will address the media after acquiring jake mccabe and sam lafferty right around 4 p.m. Eastern. So we'll keep an eye on that. Plus there's David Poyle news out there, Barry Trotz, Timo Mayer to the devils. Keandra Miller was spitting mad the other night. Yeesh.

Ooh. So we'll get thoughts on that as we anticipate a hearing for Kendra Miller tomorrow for spitting in the direction of Drew Doughty. So plenty to get into. Oh, yeah. The one thing that, you know, I don't question, but it would be nice if a guy like Jake McCabe

would have come in a little bit more seasoned, you know, at close to age of 30, he's played in Buffalo. Yeah. He's played in Chicago. He has yet to play his first NHL playoff game. Yeah.

Yeah. No, that is going to, he's going to be into the, uh, what was it out of the frying pan into the fire for sure. I am curious to see, you know, what the expectations and role looks like for him. My guess is they go Riley Brody, McCabe Hall,

Geo with Lilligren still, like some sort of defensive pairing. McCabe can play the offside, which really ups their options, and that's nice. You didn't like that, the McCabe Hall? No. No. No.

No. I've got him.ccabe brody honest like morgan riley i yeah i've got i got i got the idea that i gotta help morgan riley get his game going yeah so why not give him a stay at home type of guy that can just thrive with mind mind you know mind my back end and i'll go do the things that have made me the most successful and that's outside of uh you know being very confident in their win in seattle yeah yesterday i still think morgan needs to find his game and my first thought is the new guy well it would be interesting you know since i've been following the leafs covering the leafs that's been the constant struggle try to find the right pair for riley he hasn't had great

options you know he had a lot of success with ron hainsey you know brody is kind of the best but it would be interesting to see mccabe flip and play the offside the one thing there kipper is that probably changes which of sandin and lilligren you're talking about getting the bump yeah because you flip him and play him with riley you know then your right side still has hall um and brody on the right side you know so then you're probably geo and hall lilligran brody yeah yeah lilligran brody geo and hall is interesting like you need another pair that you can put out so last year um in the postseason muzzin and brody were like the shutdown pair you did a great job against tampa's top guys you're gonna want a pair that you trust against the best so how they i i want to see what mccabe can handle you know i'm glad they got a 20 game runway here 22 game runway to get some sense of that sure they are too

there's probably a couple guys in the leafs the core that didn't like this trade a whole lot i would imagine ross and sandin saw this trade notification today and he probably wasn't extremely overly thrilled no you know i don't you know connor timmons plays the other side but you said that jake mccabe can play on the other side yeah like timmons is a clean eight now yeah it's just it's nice to see that they have got some options now if one guy goes down or you know there's an injury or whatever but i agree with you like there's no way i'm not throwing mccabe right into the fire and playing him with riley or playing him with you know bro or whoever you want to play him with you just paid a lot of

money or a lot of picks you paid you know you're got them to retain money i'm putting him on that top pair top two pairs and see what he can do like you said the runway's here now it's time to figure out what he can do and i'm you know it's nice he's added like now wednesday night against the oilers with two new guys in the lineup like it's just just enticing oh yeah new toy night these are exciting these are great nights to be watching the leafs let's see so then lafferty's going to join that bottom six somewhere kerfootfoot, Achari, Lafferty. If you take out Aston Reese, you like that? Yeah, I'm okay with that. I mean, let's kind of just shuffle it around.

Yeah. Lafferty has 93 hits in 50-some games. Oh, listen, they are a much harder team to play against than I've seen in quite some time. They are a much harder team to play against than I've seen in quite some time. They're way better. They are way better than they were going into the playoffs last year. And you know what stands out to me with that bottom line is they can really skate, like really skate.

Like Achari's a good skater. Lafferty's one of the faster players in the league, and so is Alex Kerfoot. Like I know everyone holds up Maroon, Belmar, and Perry. Boy, it's going to be tough to keep up with with achari lafferty kerfoot so finally feel good about that matchup which last year you certainly did not so there's a plus well uh surprised how quickly the leafs answered uh and was this an answer to Boston with Orlov and Garnett Hathaway, or was it an answer to Tanner Janot? What was the answer here on this trade today by the Leafs?

It's just an arms race, and you have to put together the best team you can. You look at the other teams, and you keep saying it's not enough, it's not enough. race and you have to put together the best team you can like you look at the other teams and you keep saying it's not enough it's not enough more more more so you know i think it's both but yeah tampa's third line is now ross colton nick paul tanner juneau that's as good a third line as you'll find in the nhl as good as tampa's had since the gourd line they won the cup with so you know it's sammy i don't know the leaves are done part of you was really disappointed to see tanner jero uh jeno go to tampa uh yeah listen do you feel better now after this trade i think there's two completely different um conversations when it comes to Tanner Janot. I think everyone was kind of, I would say,

go as far as to say making fun of clowning on Tampa for the price that they paid for him. Can we just revisit that? Well, a first, which is lottery protected in 25, a second in 2024, a third in 2023, and a fourth in 2023. I mean, that is a monstrous tab, right? So I just, I don't, I said this last night on Twitter, and I'm going to say it here again, is that I can't, I'm not going to make fun of them for what they paid.

Because I just know that that is an absolutely perfect tampa bay lightning fit and they're gonna sign him for a long-term contract it's probably a decent number and he's gonna be excellent in the playoffs against the leafs this is just a stone about the leafs but no it's just a stone cold lock of all locks ross colton him and nick nick paul and him they're gonna get away with murder every shift they're gonna be leaning on the leaves oh it's true they will it's true it's 100 true and listen you you can you can quibble with me and you can say whatever you want i just but i just i think that is a really scary acquisition i said when i saw that deal besides

all right let's welcome in uh sportsnet 590 the fan as the jays game just concluded uh talk of the day around here jake mccabe sam lafferty joining the toronto maple leafs in what was a pretty big deal to answer uh the eastern conference race yeah between tampa bay and the boston bruins so uh we can revisit that but i do want you to finish the thought you had just started before we welcome them in on tanner janeau going to tampa and we are talking about uh whether or not the leafs answered the call of of tanner janeau going to tampa or the earlier trade by the boston bruins for orlov and of course arms race baby garnett hathaway my first instinct was that this one had the feel of hagel right you're really trading for the same thing now didn't cost tampa

two first rounders but they made up for the second first rounder with the second third and the fourth yeah so and the fifth you're right and a fifth. There's a fifth in there too, wasn't there? And a fifth. You're right. And a fifth. A partridge in a pear tree. So my first thought after you get over how expensive it was is, is this what they needed? I thought it's overkill. When I look at their lineup with Maroon, Corey Perry, Anthony Sorelli, even Kalorn I'll throw in there, Belmar.

They have forwards that play hard. Oh, yeah. And as much as we would think that the Tampa Bay Lightning blue line is amazing with one of the best in headman, I think they're vulnerable back there interesting i really do you know i'm just looking at it here the three of their 6d are named perbix cole and flurry yes and it's not as good as sandin lilligren and maybe connor timmons yeah you think i mean right i do see that they're they are a little bit more vulnerable there like

and i just don't know if i would have done osians on their top pair with uh headman least fans remember him it's not like he's infallible headman sergachev and chernak and chernak's got this ability sorry he's not in there yeah yeah you're right and chernak's got this ability. Yeah, sorry, he's not in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right. And Chernak's got this ability to disappear every once in a while with an injury. I think he's suspended right now out of the lineup. That's why you don't see him, I think. Yeah, yeah. But I'm like, I'm not sure if I would have had a boatload of a first, second, third, and fourth, I would have gone Tanner, Janot first.

And I don't think Ian Cole's a a good player a serviceable player a depth guy he has not replaced ryan mcdonough for me no ryan mcdonough is a big loss for them right like he was their guy who blocked the shots the guts and glory type of guy that's an interesting take you know i guess i look at that tampa group of forwards and my thought is you know like sammy who sent us it earlier today it's just like going through those guys is such a war such a war but the way hockey is you're going to get through them and you're going to go up against the opposing team's defense at some point so you know i can see why I can see why you say that. And so, okay, they get Jake McCabe. We think it's going to be this amazing series, by the way.

Oh, man. Just before we go a little deeper on Tampa. As a hockey fan. Let's just say, can we recall over, and I've covered trade deadlines, probably, you know, you're still up front. Yeah. Before you got into it. I've been watching you on TV for 20 years, pal.

It's been a bit. Before you got your life in a heap of mess, I was covering trade deadlines. I vaguely remember that. I can't recall watching like three teams like this go toe to toe with trades and assets and building and building. Like there is going to be one team. No, maybe two,

depending if we bring in maybe, uh, I don't know, New Jersey or something. There are going to be two teams. Absolutely crushed. Oh man. Crushed.

Right. Crushed. Where you've made all the Rangers devils. Like you've made, you've made these moves rangers devils like you've made you've made these moves yeah and like you're out of you're out in the first round meanwhile some grimy team like the dallas stars is going to do nothing and be like you know they're going to get the dregs whoever comes out of this is going to be limping like toronto toronto tampa like hearts will be broken here.

And listen, we like to... Actually, I shouldn't say we. You shouldn't lump us into that. I like to whine about the way the playoff format is. The Leafs will be playing Tampa Bay right now in the old format. So it's just... You look at the Eastern Conference... It's destiny. The way the Eastern Conference is format. So it's just, you look at the Eastern Conference.

It's destiny. The way the Eastern Conference is laid out, it's like... You can't avoid a good team. There's no... I'm starting to ease up a little bit on the argument about the Leafs sort of division. We don't care. We don't care about Toronto playing Tampa

in the first round. What we care is it doesn't need to be decided in November. That's what we care about it doesn't need to be decided in november that's what we care about okay that's fair that's fair i'll say that but like they're on a you know they'll be on a collision course regardless of it i mean you're gonna have to beat the eastern conference like i don't know who i saw tweeted where i saw that the eastern conference the easiest team they may play might be in the final yeah like it's like the time but by the time you get to the final it'll be the easiest team you've played yeah i'm not sure that's a good thing or not mentally probably a good thing though you'd

rather play so just to spin this back on finishing my thought then you can just it's you know like like i said it's an arms race you get a nuclear warhead i get two yeah i get two you get three once you get everyone's blown up and sad once Once you finish trading off, what is left now? And for me, Tampa, Toronto just boils down to one thing now. I know. Don't say it. Vasilevsky. I know.

That was the word. That's it. Okay. And whether or not he still has A-plus in him, or this could be that one year where it's columbus and he can't find it and you you hope and pray pray for that that's it you sure do and if you can get samson off looking more like he did against seattle and less like what we've seen the last couple of weeks yeah maybe just being a little bit under vasilevsky

will still be good enough for the leafs to get past tampa bay i so looking at the two rosters right now and like you were mentioning i i do think from the net out the leafs are a better team like in terms of the forwards defense like the in total but like you said vasileski is an absolute boogeyman vasileski's last he's a dream haunter yeah the last three playoff years he's played 25 games at a 927 23 games at a 937 and 23 games at a 922 so he's been pretty flawless kipper you mentioned that series against columbus he's an 856 and four yes it can happen of course it can happen the game has to be played and that is also and that unfortunately can't get fixed at the trade deadline no matter no you can't make the other team not have sls we have traded for them to not have this player yeah not an

option so yeah it is you know can you protect uh samsonov well enough i still believe if samsonov can pitch a 9 10 it would be enough they just need to not lose the goaltending matchup badly they just can't lose it badly so you know if he struggles and you have to go to matt murray you're reeling pretty hard no no doubt that's a critical piece so in the end we're less upset i feel you know what the the assets the leafs have moved seeing what everyone else is doing around the league here you know it still is a long shot and again i i don't know what what matthew nyes will bring interesting there is that thought that he will get some looks i think he will sign his professional contract when he's done he will be brought in i don't know if there's time to

fit him in somewhere to get some looks get his feet wet how badly how desperate you want to look if you minnesota can lose they don't have to win the national championship you know it's not written in stone they're going to go till april 8th it's a good point you know it is hockey after all it's still but i one of the main reasons i've liked them adding the forward depth with achari and lafferty and i mean i won't include ryan o'reilly is depth but those two guys is i think one of the things that accomplishes is easing the pressure on matthew nye's coming in and having to contribute to this lineup right like if he's can you play 10 on the third or fourth line so kerfoot can play up or something if he's completely undeniable and you play him in a game before the regular season or you need a jolt in a playoff game or something

i like having him as an option as opposed to a savior yeah you know that's a great way to put it as a guy that can come in and you know change things up scores one sneaky one an ot for you and just like just having him as not being the guy that's riding in on a high horse to save the least bottom six i think is good for everyone involved including matthew nice with nice like pier Pierre Engvall's playing time comes into question. Like if you're healthy and you put Nyes on the left side or, you know, we don't know what he's going to look like, but, you know, suddenly a guy like Engvall.

So that's, you know, the, the, the bottom two lines right now are Engvall, Kemp, Yarncroft, Kerfoot, Achari, Lafferty. We're only guessing right now what the left side's gonna look like for game one against tampa bay and whether or not ultimately it will be john tavaris or not yeah they're going to go to three centers at some point here well i don't care i mean i don't care what they do between now and 22 23 games left all i care is what's it going to look like in game one now well yeah but i mean you want to see what it looks like

prior and get some sense of what they're going to do or you know some information to make that decision on so we assume it's bunting to virus and then angball kerfoot nize kerfoot nize exactly exactly so i mean if you've got kerfoot bumped out that's hard to see no that's not happening i know some people want to trade them out there i see your dms uh the one thing that uh is interesting now is the real need for Kyle and Sheldon to take Mitch Marner and put him back with Austin Matthews, which made Austin look a little bit more like Austin last night. Well, we all called that in here, or at least I did, right? Got to give the big rig Mitchie again.

I think we said verbatim. He's the uh he's the the whisperer now you got a problem with your game you call in the whisperer that was zach hyman when he was here and you know mitchie's taking that over he'll make you better like it's unbelievable like how good mitch marner is that i can't what he's been able to do in the last week and a half with either Ryan O'Reilly or Austin Matthews. Like you just putting them on a platter for guys. Like,

come on, that guy should have five points every game. So can I ask, can I put a theory to you guys that got someone sent to me? I wanted to ask you about the difference between marner playing with matthews and uh matthews playing with willie and bunting is marner does so much defensive heavy lifting as well and when it's matthews with nylander and bunting he has to do so much of the heavy lifting yeah and you know why but is that like i mean listen we made the joke about Sandin saying that he doesn't back check or whatever.

Like, there's still that part of his game. But it just feels like when he is with Marner, he's part of the rush and part of the play. And when he's with Bunting and Nylander, he's kind of behind the play because he's kind of. And that's Willie's fault. Because Willie cheats. Willie wants to be up. Willie wants to stretch willie's looking for another breakaway that's not mitch marner mitch marner comes back willie doesn't come back and that's not a knock against willie that's just willie being willie that's how willie gets his

points and willie the big difference the big difference between willie now and willie then is he is stronger and he's turned himself into a competitor he competes now but as far as his game structure it's as loosey as it's ever been yeah they just you're allowed to take certainly ways when you're a guy like willie they're they say yeah go stretch take a chance it's ever been yeah they just you're allowed to take certainly ways when you're a guy like willie they're they say yeah go stretch take a chance it's kind of how you do your thing and that's not a great thing for austin matthews not to mention willie's a shooter mitch doesn't shoot the puck you know half as much as as willie so you know willie's going to take more opportunities rather than looking for austin austin's shots per game i think are down to 4.1 from 4.8 yeah when he

plays with mitch so he gets more opportunities he defends a little bit less it makes a lot of sense i don't see any way that you reconstruct these lines in a way that doesn't keep those two together game one of the players yeah and and come on they they gotta keep the big guy happy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And you can see them after their score. In a perfect world, I mean, I think they were probably forced into this to help Matthews for now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Now. He needs help now. He's disappeared on us. He doesn't look like the 60-goal score we had. Oh, by the way, the majority of those 60 goals came off of playing with number 16. Get them back together. Don't care. Ryan O'Reilly, don't care.

Tavares, don't care. Matthews, care. Put them now. Yeah. No, it's the right time for them. And hopefully, you know,thew starts to find that energy a little bit he mentioned yesterday about finding a little bit of an extra step you know when you see it go in and he's been looking to see that more so that's great i mean they're loaded

just curious to see how you what you do with the other other guys all right let's welcome in former nhl scout writer for sportsnet.ca and a big part of Sportsnet's coverage for trade deadline come Friday, Jason Bukala. Thanks for joining us, Jason. How are you? Doing fantastic, fellas. Not so sure what's going to be left on Friday by the time we get there, but, you know, whatever.

Listen, you and Elliot could fight over Malkin getting traded again. I hear there's some teams interested in him. That's all that's going to be left for Friday, man. You guys better bring a cribbage board, monopoly, something. Yeah, yeah. I hear you, buddy. I hear you.

So your thoughts, because we know Chikrin's out there. We know Gavrikov's out there. We know Ekholm's out there. We know Gavrikov's out there. We know Akholm's out there. The Leafs go with Jake McCabe. Let's get your thoughts. Let's start with Gavrikov. I wasn't buying the hype, Kipper. I got to be honest with you.

I broke him down quite a bit through the course of the year. I don't see in a heavy, hard series that Gavrikov is going to give Toronto what they require. I had some issues with it. I'm going to give you a little bit of a scout speak. I hope it won't bore you to death. I mean, his balance when he goes to present against opponents down low in the zone, like in the corners below the goal lines, he's hunched over. He's a poke checker more than he's a banger.

Like, he might bump up to a guy but when you're defending against a speed rush guys like gabrikov they have a hard time gapping up because when you're hunched over and you're leaning forward with your stick all the time your balance is off so if you swing and miss i mean the guy's going right to the net with the puck i wasn't buying high on gabrikov right from the outset so that's one thing and i thought that the the ask was outrageous as well especially when he's on record saying that he doesn't want to sign anywhere that he goes so i mean come on um just not to cut you off but the ask a first and a third is that

what you're hearing i heard i heard first third, wow. Okay. I heard the first and the third. Well, I mean, from experience in the past, dealing with Columbus on the other side, I can tell you that they're stringent, I guess is the best way I would put it, in terms of their beliefs and their players. I don't want to say they're hard to deal with. Let's just say they're stubborn to deal with. Let's just say that. They dig it.

Yeah, they dig it. At home, I would have loved for the Leafs to pick up at home. I know he's 32 years old. At 6'2", 5", they would have had to massage things a little bit differently, which probably would have meant they would not have been able to bring in another depth forward like Lafferty. Out of all the defensemen, though, he would have been my guy that I appreciated the most. Yeah, me too.

He can play in all situations. He's been to a state on the cup final. He's more trustworthy, I guess, guys, is what I can say in all facets of the game. You know what I mean? If you're late on the scene, he's one of those guys that can contain to the perimeter very well.

He's smart. He's crafty. So that would have been the perimeter very well. He's smart. He's crafty. So that would have been the guy that I would have liked to have acquired the most out of, out of all the defensemen. So having said like that, do we want to jump right into what happened here? Yeah,

you might as well. We've been talking and kicking it around for 38 minutes here. You might as well just take your crack at it there. Bukes. You know, I have McCabe on my radar as a guy. I mean, listen, this isn't a perfect player, and he's had some injury issues in the past. But if you want to take a look at what he's going to bring to the roster today,

he can play both sides. He can kill penalties. He's mobile. Timing-wise, I'd like to see a little bit more efficiency, I guess, with your routes, taking guys to the proper areas off the rush and things like that. But, I mean, at this time of year, are we going to throw rocks at glass houses? You know, it's an upgrade for what they have.

Like, that's the bottom line. He makes their core. The group on the back end is better with Jake McCabe. That's the bottom line. Plus seven in Chicago. I mean, I haven't looked at the statistics of that team but i got to believe they've got to be dash 80 or 90 probably overall in season maybe so um you know not bad he's got some bump to his game which is a bonus it's going to take a little bit of weight off some of the other guys 122 hits 115 blocked shots this is this leaf team they don't block shots and we all know that your goal center can be overexposed at

the hardest time of year when you don't get in the way once in a while and so i think that anybody wants to block more shots when he comes in to wear a leaf uniform that's a good thing so all those things add up to positives for me. I really like the Lafferty ad. I have to be honest. I was, I was taking Lafferty, Bukestad,

you know, those types of players that could play wing or in the middle, have a little bit of bump to their game, a little bit of range. Lafferty is real good on the penalty kill. He's got four shorthanded goals, an assist. You know, he can play a variety of positions.

He can play the middle. He can play both sides wins like 54 percent of his face offs and again he's got some bump to his game so this is a positive one thing that stands out for me and as I'm foaming at the mouth here but one thing that stands one thing that stands out for me guys is that bottom line now so consider the Lafferty and Aston Reese played together a little bit in Pittsburgh, right? And now you've got Achari on the bottom. I looked at the roster and I broke it all down today.

I'm going to throw some names at you here. Let me see. Kerfoot, Engvall, Yarncrook, Camp, Bunting, Holmberg, Marner, Nylander, and O'Reilly. 368 total hits on the year between that group of nine forwards. Lafferty, Aston Reese, Achari,

407. Finally. The Leafs have a line that'll run into people. Hooray! They had no chance building it on the bottom the way it was before with the Kerfoot's and the Holmbergs and whatever else.

It's like, come on. Morgans and oh my God. This should be a discount. They would have just got run right over and we would have all been complaining. So these are great ads. Investment's steep. The draft grid doesn't look great,

but you want to look at a bad draft grid, take a look at the Tampa Bay Lightning with two picks in this draft. Let me ask you, you know, earlier before you came on, I said that this McCabe trade wasn't completely all chips on the table, and I only say that because it did not cost them nines. It did not cost them Minton. It cost them a conditional first.

Is this the best way to have saved kyle's prospects absolutely yeah absolutely and especially if you want to think you don't like to do it you don't like to think worst case scenario because when you're when you're all in you're all in you don't really want to go there but i mean let's just go there for a second um worst case scenario they go out in the first round and obviously things are going to get half to get retooled you'd really not want to have the nyes and the mintons and the nimelas and maybe the urbanins um steves i don't care like we could go down some of these guys like you don't want to have them gonzo on top of having no draft capital so So, I mean, it's a positive that way.

Yeah, I mean, it's all shaping up for a better looking group. On the back end then, what do you expect to happen with the Leafs D? Like you mentioned that McCabe can play both sides. Sandin seems to be the guy on the outs. You may have a different view of that. Timmons kind of kicking around. Like first off, I'll say, do you think they're done? And if you do think they're done what do you think of the d who are the six in okay so let's go with do i think they're done first um it's all going to depend on matt murray

right so um right now they've got money to spend with him on long term if he comes off long term they're not even compliant so they got to move something out to uh to save some cash whether it be a you know a curve for it i just pick a name i somebody's gotta go right it's just to make it so um in terms of the uh the pairings or the six oh boy like it's so you know giordano um I'm not even going to put him together yet. So you got Riley, you got Giordano, you obviously got McCabe. You've obviously got Brody. So there's your top four. Lilligren has taken a step for me this year.

He's a better player than he was last year. I trust his brain better now, guys. I'm interested to hear what you guys think, because I trust his brain better now than I ever have in his development. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I thought initially when he came up, he wanted to show you that he could make the hard play. And I think now he's simplified things a little bit.

The game doesn't look, it looks like it's slowed down for him a little bit. So I agree with you there. While Sandin still has a lot of moments, you know, taking the pressure on a four check and making the right play lilligran's done a better job of finding a safe outlet for the puck on retrievals i agree like i you know i thought lilligran was confused about what he was going to be or i thought he's confused about what was going to make him an nhl defenseman and you just brought up an interesting point there. I'd much rather have Lilligren with a four checker on his back pocket, turning to make an escape or make an outlet right now than Sandin.

Like I find that Sandin, when he's got somebody on his pocket, he either gets pushed to an area where he can't make a play or there's a pizza on the horizon somewhere in the middle of the ice at the wrong time of the game. So I'm going with Hall instead of Sandin Sandin's my man out and I'm actually thinking that Timmons is a wild card in this whole equation um I just don't know that the volume is there to necessarily put him in the you know the face of fire like I'm not I think it can be but I think it's a year away with Timmons.

So Hall and Lilligren, I don't know what the pairings are going to be here because guys are going to have to switch around both sides. McCabe can play both sides. Brody can play both sides. Sandin's the odd man out for me. That's how I feel today. Let me ask you something. When you said defense that are out there available, you had at home at the top of your list.

And when you described things you loved about him, I think you had second or third that he's been to a final. Well, Jake McCabe, at age 29, has yet been to a Stanley Cup final. He's yet been to a playoff game. Never played in the playoffs. Does that matter to you? You know, the team, theperience of of really getting ready and you know there's there's teams that love to to to introduce players like this to a playoff to get seasoned to get better to build this team is not

necessarily i don't know if you ask sammy maybe it's different for him but they're they're built now to try to win a Stanley Cup. They're not built just to win one round here. Does it matter to you that a guy like Jake McCabe doesn't have any playoff seasoning at all? It would have been on the list of consideration. Absolutely. For me, it is.

It always is at this time of year. So I think what trumps it for me, Kipper, is the Lafferty ad. All things being equal, if I was looking at McCabe and at home only like straight up, uh, manual manual, I would have tried to find a way for at homes cap to fit. I would have done something else, the Lafferty edition. And when I start talking about heavy heart in the, in the four hole, um, that trumps that equation for me, you're you're 100 right teams that have been there before and know what it takes like even if we think back to last year

there was there was stages in that first round playoff against tampa bay where you could almost to the casual fan they would almost look at it and think tampa was going through the motions they can almost look like that sometimes like they they're just kind of, you know, kitty by the door, taking their time, getting into the series, but it's all part of their, the way they play the game. They wear you down mentally, physically. And then of course the goaltending is great. So all of that is learned when you win Stanley cups, like, you know, the progression, you know,

you don't have to play your hairs on fire every step of the uh 60 minutes in the playoffs you have to build up to the win and uh guys who know how to do it know how to do it so i think that i hope that answers your question i wish it was the other way but the lafferty thing unfortunately trumps it the the lafferty thing just one follow-up on him like how far would he be from being an out of the lineup guy for the Leafs? I don't really have a sense for his game. Like, you know, we've got him on the fourth line as we talk about him here,

but Ashton Reese is a pretty nice player. And right now he seems like the guy bumped. Is he that much of a step up from Ashton Reese? He's a step from Ashton Reese. Yeah. He's a step from Ashton Reese. More secondary scoring, more pace,

more pressure up ice when he's short. Is he? I don't know his game all that well. Yeah, like Aston Reese, I think he has some trouble at times for me arriving. He sometimes arrives a half second later than other people. And this guy, he's the opposite. He's on the scene quicker. Let me ask you about the rest of the blue line in terms of teams still looking.

LA, I'm hearing at home Edmonton. I don't know how close you think it is, but is that a guy that you are also hearing they are targeting? Well, I think that's exactly what Edmonton should be targeting. I'd be shocked if LA doesn't add like a Chikrin or an Ekholm here. It just seems like the thing with L.A., they're in a pickle because really what they need is a goalie and a defenseman, but they just can't go there with a goaltending.

Like, it's impossible. So they're kind of in a jam that way. And I guess the same could be said about Edmonton, really, because their goaltending is, you know, it is what it is. But I'm hearing, you know, Edmonton would be wise to shop in the Ekholm waters. That's exactly what that team needs. Of course, Shen's name is still floating around out there. You know, these are the kind of names that those types of teams,

more Edmonton, those are the types of bodies, if they could add a Shen and an Ekholm, that would be a massive upgrade for the Oilers. Yeah, and considering the, you know, easier path they have through, I mean, that could make a huge difference in making them the favorites in the West. I'd love to see that. You know, there's been big moves around the NHL,

and while we have you, I just thought I'd have you weigh in. I know you wrote something on what the Devils get in Timo Meier and Tanner Janot. Do you just want to give us your quick thoughts on those two trades? Yeah, you know, Meier, I mean, he was the biggest fish out there. I get it. Goal scorer, he's going to probably play with He Shire, his country mate there in New Jersey.

It's time for New Jersey to take another step, and this is a good ad for them. But, you know, from my perspective, when I'm breaking down players, don't be misled. Myers scores goals. He plays heavy hard from the red line going north, but his tracking back

and his defensive detail is not great, and he's going to have to get broken down a little bit like that. They're going to have to do some work, because you've got to play at least average detail in playoffs to have team success um and then as you know i don't even know where to start guys like i was absolutely gobstopped like i just uh like uh i've never seen anything like it um but who are we to say when tampa bay has clearly got a model that works and they're all in a certain way. So good for them if they think it works. Listen, he's big, strong, mean.

I don't care if the guy scores 10 points from now to the end of the season, as long as him and the Nick Pauls and the other guys they have in their lineup are running over opponents in playoffs. It just reeks of a reaction to what Boston did a little bit. I feel like all this is a little bit of a trickle-down effect from what the Bruins added as well. I just look at Tampa Bay's blue line and I just saw

Tanner's overkill for them. I would have put those draft picks in something on the blue line. I would have spread it around absolutely. I think they could have spent that type of capital and brought in – and there's teams out there that are eating money, right?

So you could have easily parked some of the money with a later round pick somewhere else, call it Chicago, Arizona, Anaheim. There would have been a lot of different ways to skin that cat. It makes me feel like there must have been some sort of a bidding war behind the scenes that we're not all privy to, but it might come out in short order. Jason, really appreciate the time, man. All the best this

week. Have fun on Friday. We'll be watching. All right. Yeah, hopefully I'm on and not just out back eating donuts and muffins with Elliot. Yeah. Don't expect fresh ones either. Thanks, guys. I'll talk to you later. Thanks, buddy. Talk soon. Jason Bukala

from Sportsnet.ca. There's going to be a few more trades. There's no question. It's just interesting now that again, of all the trade deadlines I've covered, there just seems to be a race now to get things done now instead of the 3 p.m. And that is because you don't know what's going to be left by 3 p.m.

You can't wait. I think that, again, Kyle did this deal in a perfect world. Maybe he would have liked to seen some prices drop but with the the demand of defense i think kyle really felt if i don't do this now yeah it won't be available for me come thursday night or friday and particularly when you're a team that has multiple holes you want to fill like the leafs clearly looked at their forward group and said not good enough look at top six bottom six three new forwards that's

they've really changed the face of their team and that's tough to do between 2 and 3 p.m. in the same day you know all the communication that would have to take place in the negotiations like I think there's a sense of if you need one player maybe you can wait and see what's available the blue light special but you know for the leafs who felt

you know going up against tampa and boston it's going to be a war we need to go big i understand why they start building the home a little bit sooner like go ahead sammy no i just i'm just more of a general you know thought that i am excited oh yeah i am i like i am you know been a leaf fan my whole life, and a lot of times at trade deadlines, they've been underwhelming for the Leafs, and they've picked the wrong trade, and they've done weird things,

and you look back, and this just kind of brings me back to my youth, and they were having those massive trade deadlines, and they're trading for, like, Gary Roberts and trading for, you know, Ron Francis and trading for Brian Leach and, like... Trying to win. They're, it just, it's an exciting and scary feeling to be all in because of the matchups.

It's like love, Sam. You have to commit. I've been in love for a long time, boys, so we don't need to get into that. But it's just a very – Talking about a guy that's had his heart broken too, right? I have. Very protective. You know how protective I've been?

I even said I didn't like the Ryan O'Reilly trade but having seen i just i didn't like the price but having seen everything that's shaken out here now i'm officially on board i'm excited yeah i have to i have to admit i really think by friday we're gonna see a lot of those moves for like guys for a million million and a half that can kind of clean up your salary cap. Yeah. Yeah. That's what it's going to be, isn't it? It's going to be like, yes, who got traded for a seventh?

Yeah. You're like, oh, that guy in Columbus. He's been there for three years. Okay. More guys that I've never heard of. Ted Schneebly from the Dallas Stars. Yeah. Yeah.

It's just, I feel for those guys. Yeah. It could be a long day. Thoughts over the weekend as we start hearing how close maybe Pat Kane is to becoming a Ranger. This one has been a strange one for me almost right from the get-go. And it's almost as if the New York Rangers went Tarasenko first because it was like, we don't know if he wants to play or not. Kane. Yes, for Kane.

He doesn't even look that good. Watch him in Toronto a week and a half ago, and it's like, he looks disinterested. And now it's like the Rangers are scrambling to jump through hoops on what do we need to do. And if we have a roster of 16 or 17 for the next couple of games so be it but this one's just felt strange to me yeah there's almost a sense to where it feels a little bit anti-competitive like we're just like doing this favor for Kane to let him go

play at the place he wants to go play like I don't know that it's the best thing for the rangers to you know get take on a ten and a half million dollar contract too much they're doing a lot here to get a guy that like i don't know i understand how he's like him recently like him yeah i but i'm just i don't want to see it happen don't get me wrong but i get your point kipper that this feels yes we should go to break because Dubas is going to talk round four. Okay. Let's go to break. And I'm going to get Kipper a new pen because I can't watch this anymore.

And then we'll pick up on Kane too. All right. And Meyer. Quick break. Meyer. Plenty more, including the Nashville Predators as David Poyle exits and Barry Trotz comes in. So much more on the real Kipper and Bourne.

Stick around and we'll be back after these words. Get smarter when you listen to Hockey Talk, the Hockey PDO cast with Dmitry Filipovich. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, as promised, Kyle Dubas on his big trade. We're going to need to give our group the best chance as we get set here from one, clinching our spot in the playoffs, continuing to chip away and get ready for it,

and then get ready for the uh the battle that's to come uh we can continue to push our way and get there so that's uh that's where we're at and um i'll turn it over for questions um everyone wants to fire away i think the thing we like about jake we obviously played against him a lot when he was in buffalo um spoke to them uh the summer, he was 21 now going back to it, when he was a free agent coming off of an ACL injury. And just always liked how physically as competitive he is in neutral zone and combined with how he can defend and move the puck, seems to relish that role. And when we're going through different guys,

obviously it's with Jake Muzzin out that creates the hole there that we've talked about in previous availabilities and feel like he fits that. And then once we kind of got through the salary part with Chicago, it just kind of fits in and makes sense. And I also like the fact that he's got this year and two more to follow. And, you know, he's just 29 years old here now and just turned 29, so versus the others on the market, still one of the younger of the group.

So we're excited to have him come in and look forward to working with him. Obviously, he's played very well, and he's mostly been with Seth Jones there in Chicago and done a very good job for them. So it gave us a good chance to see how he would play against top competition each night, and we'll leave it to Sheldon and Dean to sort out how they want to go through that. But we're really excited to have him. How about Lafferty?

Lafferty is someone that we played more when he was in Pittsburgh, but last year once he went there he seemed to come alive more with Chicago. He was good in Pittsburgh as well, and then a little bit more opportunity in Chicago. For me, the speed is the number one thing that he brings, but also the versatility, able to play center, able to play wing, and then the forecheck, competitiveness, tenacity on the forecheck and able to create turnovers up the ice, be physical, be really competitive.

And this year it's gone in for him more this year because he puts himself in those opportunities with his forecheck and ability to get in behind the D. But we're getting him for his ability to defend, forecheck, be competitive, and bring great speed to our team, and another layer of competitiveness as with O'Reilly and Achari up front. Do you think all these moves kind of change the identity of the mix a little bit for the playoffs? Well that's what we've tried to do Jonas. I mean there's no reason for us

to really beat around it. We've wanted to become more competitive. Sam makes us faster as well up front while maintaining the group that we have and we didn't want to deplete from our actual prospects that are already in the system but that's been the goal here something we feel like in those big moments that we've needed and maybe we've lacked a little bit of

is to just kind of push us over the top the thing about all three of the fours that it requires that they also have proven Sam more so this year alone than in previous, but with Noel and obviously with Ryan, that they can score and they can score in tight of the net where we're going to have to find a way and where we haven't found a way in key moments in the past. So that was sort of the goal. So like playoff style goals?

Yeah, I hate to get into the whole playoff style goals, playoff style, anything. It's just trying to find guys that can go to those areas that are harder of the rink and score that way as well. We know we have guys that can score from anywhere at the top of the lineup. It's finding guys that can chip in more from the bottom, and we think Noel and Sam can do that. And then we hope our, you know, we've continued to have our own guys in development. McMahon's done that since he's gone back to the Marley.

Steve's had a lot of chances when he was here, and Holmberg as well. So he's trying to find more people like that that can help put us over the top. How much does what other teams do, like especially in your division factor, and maybe the speed of the toss, you know, Tampa makes that big trade,

Boston makes that big trade earlier in the week. Yeah, neither of those, I mean, for us, I mean, neither of those really affected we were doing this talk with Chicago had been going on even before the Boston deal. So, and it was, you know, nearly at the finish line or essentially over the finish line last night when the Tampa Bay-Nashville deal came down. So we're just, we have to focus on ourselves and worry about ourselves

and know it's going to be really tough. We've been through it before. We know that these are elite, elite competitors. And at this moment, on both sides of this format in the East, you're going to have two teams that are in the top six, if it finishes this way, playing in the first round, which is great for the fans. But it's really tough when you're competing.

But I think we relish it, and I think we need it, actually. I don't think we, of all teams, should be embracing it and being ready to go for it. There is a context to this, right? You're sending a lot of future, more than you've probably sent at previous deadlines, for right now. What makes this team and this moment and this conference

kind of worth that? I think there's probably two different ways to answer. This trade more so than the previous one, I see as McCabe has this year plus two more. Lafferty has this year plus two more. So you're going to get a lot of utility from them just over the course of the term. With regards to giving our

team the best chance, I think every year we're in it with where we're at right now, we have to give the team the best chance to win. And, you know, you go through the year because the format is how it is. You know who you're going to be up against if you finish in the top three of your division, unless you can get to the very top. But even still, like the wild card, that's a battle on the East right now, too. It's great for the fans and it's great for the game, I think. But for us, it's okay, how do we situate ourselves to best compete? Because just being a fun matchup and being fun to watch isn't good enough for us. It's trying to win.

So it's looking to what things do we need to help our lineup, help our coaches, help the others, and can we get them? And then with regards to the futures, sure, we don't want to deplete ourselves too much down the road but if we can add guys with term in which we did here we can find ways to replace that as we move along and and we've we've have a lot of confidence in our prospects that are already in as i've as i've said so uh it of course it is a is a concern you never want if you could have a clean sheet going ahead we had every every pick. That'd be great.

But I think we owe it to our group to try to give them the best chance. Do you anticipate Matt Murray coming off LTI this week? We are tracking towards that, it seems like it. So that's the hope. And he's continuing to skate and participate more and more. And it looks good on that front. So we sure hope so. Do you have to make another move, though?

Yeah, I mean, we went through this last year, too, where we thought we were going to have to make another move, and then Rasmus Sandin got hurt in Nashville and missed the remainder of the year. So, an old friend of mine always used to say, when time is on your side, use it. So, we'll do that here, but we kind of know where everything

is at, but we'll see what happens in the subsequent couple games here in Edmonton and Calgary, and then be able to adapt from there. Do you feel like you're done or do you anticipate being busy between now and the end of the season? I think we'll still be busy and active and try to find if there's any way that we can continue to improve. It's at the balance now where you get between changing the group too much. But the guys have received the

noel and ryan so well i think being on the road has helped if we got them we were at home and then we were in chicago and buffalo one home game and then on the road trip so they have to be together all the time and unlike in the covid year where you were just in the hotel they can actually go out and do things together and kind of build that camaraderie so you've you've seen that a little uh little bit here in the week, and those guys have integrated about as seamlessly as I've hoped, and I think they're planning on going to the Springsteen concert tonight, which I think will be great.

Well, I personally would think that's outstanding for a number of reasons, but it'll be good for those guys to come together as well. Do you expect the new guys to play Wednesday? I'll leave that to Sheldon, but they're on their way here now, and they'll be here this evening, and so they'll practice tomorrow, and it's a back-to-back, so it might be some

lineup stuff in and out, but I'll leave that to Sheldon and the coaching staff. In your standing spot night in person previously, what's your thoughts and perspective on his development this year? Well, I think the University of Minnesota and Bob Motzko and his staff have done a great job with him and actually Michael Kester, our other prospect.

He had four points on the first night against Ohio State. I think that they've just done a great job continuing to build into Matt's game developmentally, the ability to use his size and strength to make plays and build space for himself and then take advantage of it. He plays with two other elite prospects, which is fun to watch. It was a fun game to watch on Saturday. But I can't rave enough about the job that they've done at University of Minnesota with him. It's being able to utilize his strengths to the best of his ability, which is a huge developmental task it sounds obvious but it isn't as uh it isn't as smooth in execution as it

is in ideation so he's he's come along really well there and then you know there's less one-on-one forcing plays it's it's more playing within their system and strengths and and then he was imposing himself physically as well so um he's done good work there, but the staff and the crew at the University of Minnesota have been excellent for him. So I think they have a bye this week, and then our hope is to see them win the Big Ten championship if they can, because we've got two guys there,

and not to cheer for one team over another. And when he went back, it was to try to win the national championship. So I think that's important for our prospects, is learning how to, there's a high pressure one and done game. So we hope for a long time he's in them and this is a good chance to get used to him. One thing with McCabe is he's never played a playoff game. I don't think he's played a game that was a really high pressure game since he was a world junior. Right.

Is that a, like, I don't know, how do you look at that? I have just a very unique way of looking at it in that we had Ron Hainsey here, who was the same. Went through his whole NHL career, didn't play in a playoff game, had some of that when he was younger, and then went to Pittsburgh and stepped in and was a key part for them in winning the Stanley Cup. And I actually went back and forth with Ronnie this morning about that. You know, you never know.

You'd love to have guys who've all won before and all done it, but I just think the way that he plays is the best, probably, projection of how he's going to be in those moments. So, you know, he plays with high pressure, physically competitive, and doesn't really give an inch to people, and that's what we're going to need in those moments. So we think it'll translate well. But's it is interesting and it's just luckily knowing Ronnie a little bit from having him here kind of gave me the um more comfort in the fact that when

you look at it it's some of it's circumstantial right it's just he was with Buffalo just before they kind of took off and and um and um you know they're they're kind of on their way now and and that's sometimes just the way it goes is there any concern whatsoever that knives won't sign are you 100 confident oh i never know i mean it's not a discussion we've we've had um you know at a great deal of length luke so until any player actually goes down that path i um i don't know i i don't have any reason to be heavily alarmed at this point but our focus is for him is on helping his team win uh win the big 10 and then hopefully they can they can push to win the national championship we would have some other guys that are pushing along the

way as well than college hockey but he obviously set that as his goal going back in the rank number one so um we don't want to distract him with anything and certainly don't want to distract distract their program on a personal level what's the last few weeks been like for you being outside it looks like there's a lot of pressure you feel some satisfaction here with the moves you made is there more even more like how are you no i i mean i've never been asked that thank you mark um but um this to me is the most fun time like i said to the guys this morning as we were kind of pushing it across the finish line, like when you're, I don't know,

unless you've been like in there doing it, like the moments when you're just getting a trade that you've worked on for a while to the finish line, it's the most exciting part of it. And then, you know, seeing the guys come in like Noel and Ryan, and not even their production, but just the way that they've played and helped the team

and then the way that the guys react to it and where we're at, like it's to me is the most exciting time. And I don't know about the – I wouldn't say that it feels pressure. You feel a duty in this job to do everything you can to help the group of people that are part of it, the staff and the players. And we're fortunate here to have great staff, great players that deserve everything from my end to help them get over the top and reach their potential, which is to win.

So this, to me, is the most exciting time. And then the trade deadline comes and you're kind of on the trail that Luke was just asking about, which is going to see your guys in college and Europe that are going to be coming over soon and then ready for the draft. But this is the most fun part of this really i mean it's you know whether you want to call it pressure or not i don't know but it's a lot of fun perfect thanks guys thank you thanks everybody thank you

kyle dubas general manager of the toronto maple leafs addressing the pickup of jake mccabe and sam lafferty We'll see who's in the lineup as early as Wednesday night. Edmonton Oilers. What a week we have ahead here. Two games, right? Back-to-back. Is it Wednesday, Thursday? Wednesday in Edmonton, Thursday in Calgary.

And then Saturday in Vancouver. So everybody in Vancouver can get all bent out of shape because it's a 7 o'clock 4 o'clock. Pacific time. Boy, they don't like that out there. The day after the deadline too, there may be interesting to see what the Canucks look like.

Are they going to unload Demco or JT Miller or Brock Besser or Tyler Myers or OEL? It's a... What are they going to do cluster truck yes um full of clusters so can we just quickly look at this from the chicago perspective this trade sure because we mean morning we're talking about this a little bit in before the show started but this is how you rebuild over the next three drafts the blackhawks have six first round picks

and 17 picks in the first three rounds in 26 total so they have yeah so they have three from chicago two from taba bay one from toronto and then you know six second rounders five third rounders there if they but season ticket holders oh i know and watch listen i know that future draft picks they should actually trade some of those that's too many you can't develop that's too many 20 guys at once you know that they're gonna have coming in here in the next that's a lot of assets you know what that's all it is it's just assets and six first-round picks. Just listening to Tampa Bay, Breezebaugh, I think, was quoted as saying, listen, these picks, there's no guarantees,

and there's just no knowing for sure, and we're in the here and now, and I've got to help these guys win now, and I get all of that. It's not so much that you want these assets so you could use them yeah to to actually pick a draft but it's also making sure that you don't give them up for the wrong trade like you don't want to be in a position a year from now to say oh i really like that guy he became available but i gave my first rounder away last year now i don't have it now i'm out of play

yeah that's the thing that you want to protect yourself from if you're chicago anybody really just anybody with your assets it's not so much that you want it so you can use it yourself but it's a it's a huge chip. You've got to turn it into a player on your own. You've got to turn it into the right player, though. You don't want to turn it. You don't want to give it up for the wrong guy. That's all.

Like Tampa potentially did for Tanner Janot. Which Tanner Janot is Tanner Janot? Is he a 25-goal scorer or is he a 5-goal scorer? I just love how terrified everyone is of saying it was an egregious overpay by tampa like because they've been right so often they earned that google is like i was flat whatever he said and he's like but yeah you know it's like how who am i to say you also gotta assume that you're not giving up those assets unless you have a clear idea of what he's going to resign for yeah you think yeah yeah i would i would hope that they understand that uh

they've got a good chance of getting him on a long-term deal probably a little cheaper than nick paul yeah i had heard that nashville had offered you know to go long like six times two type of thing and you know didn't want that well so paul is seven three point one five maybe he's six two and a half are you the guy that played for nashville last year are you the guy that's playing for them this year well that's why you're getting the discount for if you're tampa you're hopefully he's closer to the one than the other and i've probably had two or three viewings of the Predators this year. That's a lot, it seems like. But he's not unnoticeable on the ice.

Right. Would you take Janot or Bunting? Would you take Janot at two and a half or Bunting at five? Janot. Heartbeat. That's a serious question. Janot is leading the nhl in fights and he scored 25 so if my whole point in this is if if bunting is looking at five million bucks then why would janoa go and sign for two million well you just told me you'd rather have him than bunting straight up.

Yeah, well, no, not straight up, at those values. Straight up, who would you want? Probably bunting. Bunting's points? Yeah, bunting scored 60 points last year, even if he's a 40-guy on a different line or a 50-point guy on a different line. He's a nice player, Bunting. He's smart. Two versus five, and then we start the competition.

Bunting a 60-point guy away from matthews and marner no but he's probably 45 different players different players but apples to oranges i guess when it comes to but to your point yeah if jeno looks at nick paul and says i'm not nick paul either yeah i think jeno's already 27 or something. I know. I might be way off there. I think he's 25. 25, okay. 26 in May. So if you're Janot, you look at Nick Paul and go, maybe I'm not quite that value, but I'm still young. Give me six years.

I'll take $3 million flat. You know, if he turns himself into a 20-goal scorer and he can beat the crap out of people, that's closer to me to being Tom Wilson and wilson and uh and uh anderson in montreal but that's why you're getting six years you know if you if you aren't those things then you get a two three year deal like everyone else who's uh i i gotta think he's in a pretty good position to bet on himself now in tampa yeah if they so what's your point here what do you think that you're saying he's not i i don't know if they can get him re-signed if he has a good run if if they lose to toronto in the first round

and yeah maybe you are looking for the guarantee 12 million dollars on six years but if they beat toronto and they have success against boston in a long series and you're a big part of it maybe you have turned yourself into a three or four million dollar player so you think that small samples like this like a one game series can dictate millions of dollar swings on his contract I do yeah yeah well again you have to you said that about Leaf guys you have you have to show that you you helped influence that series though right but like Ryan O'Reilly, if he comes here, and in the first round, the Leafs, whatever,

lose in five games, and he has two points, or if they win the first round, and he has six points, massive swing in his next contract. Yeah, you've lost a lot of leverage. Yeah. Yeah. You can't win. There's been so many guys that have gotten paid off their playoff results.

I was going to say, how's Billy Lano about that? It happens. There's the Oilers guy who was so good when they went to the cup final. Passani. Passani. He had issues. But it's just like when there's so many eyes watching you in the biggest games that are the most meaningful and you perform at

the highest level in those games gms are bound to convince themselves and i would too that yeah you're worth more it just goes to show you the value of eyeballs though because like the world juniors are valued as they are not just because it's the world juniors and the games are one-offs but because that's when people are watching it's just a matter of people are watching you want people to see you play well to me it's not the games necessarily a good playoff could solidify bunting's position at wanting five million bucks or yeah does he take a trevor moore deal at low fours the best case scenario for the leafs is michael bunting is unbelievable in the playoffs they win the cup and then he goes and earns $6 million for someone else. $5 million for someone else.

There's something else in that press conference I wanted to ask you about before. One more thing before we go to break. He said about when he got asked about activating Matt Murray for Lafferty and he said a good friend of mine said if time's on your side, use it or whatever he said, right? Lou Lamorello. That's Lou. But he said somebody got good friend of mine said if time's on your side, use it. Is that what he said? That's Lou. But he said somebody got hurt. They don't have any games. Should they? No, until Wednesday? Well, he's saying the Leafs have up

until the deadline Friday, Wednesday, Thursday they play. They got two games for somebody to get hurt. Okay, but you also, they don't have to be cap compliant to activate them on March 1st. They're still allowed to activate Matt Murray on March 1st. No. He's saying if someone gets hurt and they ltir sandin or they ltir they can drop somebody between now and thursday who gets hurt and that will have a direct effect on matt murray coming back okay but lafferty and jake m can play in the game. Yes. Okay.

Yeah. Depend. Yeah. Team big dress has to be compliant. Yeah. Okay. All right. I was just double checking that with you guys.

Cause I was confused by that, but you guys are smarter than me. So no, no, it is. It's all. None of us are Brandon Pridham. Yeah.

Oh, no. One more thing. Springsteen concert. Is that what he said? Yeah. They're going to all the least are going To a Springsteen concert tonight They're still in Seattle

Of all the things I missed I missed that Yeah they're going To a Springsteen concert Okay Whose choice is that? What's wrong with Kyle Probably

I like I like Springsteen But like Mitch Marner Like Springsteen He's smart I know Springsteen 70 something

Yeah it's like It's not that I don't like Springsteen either. I'm just surprised. Austin Matthews, gun to his head, how many Springsteen songs can he name? I'm setting the over 100. Born in the USA. It's all he's got. Born to run.

Born in Arizona. Here you go. Mary's dress. Are we doing quick Dubas takeaways or after the break from that presser? I don't know. What else do you want? You got nothing out of that? Just, I don't know. it what what else you want you got nothing out of that uh he just i don't know are you happy are you let's go to break proud of yourself i don't know what i got

out of that somebody asked him uh you feel good i don't know he's got no contract how good can he feel i don't know i mean they i don't know about how good he can feel but you know he was asked if he's going to be busy at the deadline. He all but said yes. That seems relevant. He said, you know... When they're trading guys for a seventh to... They don't want to change their team too much, though, he did say. But it didn't sound to me like he's just going to take his ball and go home.

So he's got four significant faces in his lineup right mccabe yeah achari ryan o'reilly lafferty yeah here we won the cup i think we had six or seven and we were the we were in first place so you wouldn't worry about the i just always a gamble the chemistry thing is always a gamble yeah but i think uh i think the the character that they brought in can only lift the others up and maybe we've seen that a little bit with aston reese and achari yeah watch lafferty go to work and pull and drag more people into the fight he said competitiveness like 11 times when he talked about lafferty and what they were trying to do he also did you see him bristle at the phrase playoff hockey he didn't like the idea that you

would build a different team yeah he's built a different team yeah you know and listen i don't know if he'd admit it or not or he doesn't like that but uh he's he's swinging to the other side here right he wanted a skill skill skill yeah no you need grit skill grit skill and if he were here he'd say i want those things but with the skill and it's like you've changed you've changed good and he bristles that playoff hockey because the first round last year was called tighter than a preseason game. Right. That could be it too. Yeah. Yeah. Like they,

they are a much better team. No doubt. Much better team. One of the things you're not allowed to say around him is the phrase, big boy hockey. He hates it. He hates the idea of like, you know,

that there's a different type of hockey or a different, like you just, yeah. Good hockey players play well in hockey games is his thinking. big big guys who play well or even better play that big boy hockey okay we're going to take a quick break we'll talk more toronto maple leafs including david poyle out in nashville we'll tell you everything you need to know about that move and where it's heading for nashville timo meyer gandre miller has a hearing Plenty of more to get into on Real Kipper and Bourne. We're glad you're along for the ride.

Give us a rating and review if you get a chance. Always great to hear from you. Back after these words. Breaking down the top stories in the NHL every day. The Jeff Marys Show. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right.

Plenty more to dive into. Justin Bourne, Nick Kiprios, Sammy McKee. Are we done with the Leafs or anything else you want to... What's our producer laughing at? I don't know. Just beer league hockey chat. You know what? Sorry, boys. I've lost him. You B-League hockey chat. I've lost him.

You lost him? You got him back? Audio, you need a new IFB. IFB's shot. We don't need Sammy anyway, you just talk to me. Can you hear me? Is this thing on? Can you hear me now? Nothing from Sammy?

Nothing. I hardly pay attention to him to be honest with you he says you're handsome and wonderful okay where do you want to start well should we are you okay are you okay like we know that uh we should see jake mccabe and lafferty in the lineup wednesday night yeah it sounds like they're gonna join the leafs in seattle um today and then they're going to travel with the team to edmonton so maybe they'll get to go to springsteen as their first leafs event which is very possible sammy you're questioning uh spring bruce springsteen the boss i'm not quite i personally love the boss i own multiple boss albums on vinyl in fact i like the boss i do yeah

i'm a fan of the boss um i can sing you any boss song you want but i just don't think it's like a gen z hockey player thing would be to go see bruce springsteen going to bad bunny yeah or like bieber or drake or springsteen just seems weird we're okay with the mccabe lafferty yeah ready to move on a little bit we talk around uh yes where do you want to start timo meyer uh you want to get to uh here let's get you on a headset here let's do some some so you can get sammy involved in your world too throw one of those on uh timo meyer thoughts i'll go first on that um you know i think it's a bit of a steal i think it's a bit of a steal i think it's a bit of a steal for new jersey this is a big almost a defining moment for mike rear is that you know his first sort of

big swing at it and i wasn't overly impressed new jersey has a number of top end prospects they could have gone after you know what it is for me is that it seems some people want a whole bunch of stuff and it looks like more than getting one guy back and if it does you know put all your eggs in one basket and see if you know one of these devil's prospects could have panned out for him or a topic i just didn't think they got anything that made me overly impressed with the return for san jose if you're judging it by letters in names like at the amount the the sharks hit it out of the park you think so the names of these letters the names i see the names of these guys is unbelievable honestly i can't believe the letters in these people's names i've never really heard of any

of them other than i guess fabian zetterlund was their first rounder from last year, who I guess I've, you know, but I was expecting it to be one of their finest pieces. Like, you know, like Luke Hughes or Dawson Mercer, or what's that other guy? They have another Luke Holtz. Something Holtz. Simon Nemech. Oh, yeah. You think this is one of those where a year or two, three,

people are going to be judging mike greer is way over his head or inexperienced or missed out an opportunity to get better big one to start off your career and i think you'll be looking years from now going okay they got zetterlindies whatever they got andreas johnson okay they got you know a late first they've been trying to get rid of for a very long time yeah you know they got the first that may not end up being overly impactful based on where the devils are good right like i just don't see them unless they hit on a late round late first rounder i don't know but good for the devils hey i to think too that really no different than Tanner Janot, that you've got to now, you've given up whatever you've given up.

You got to get him signed. They have to know where the ballpark is for him on a long-term deal. And I got to think that they would have had some idea that they've got a chance to re-sign him long-term before you make this commitment yeah you're like the 10 million dollar qo is a lot but if you're saying we traded for the sky and we can do whatever eight times nine or something like that maybe that's a little bit more reasonable for yeah guy who shoots it a ton and is going to score 40 goals i wonder how hard Winnipeg pushed.

I mentioned Winnipeg having Timo as an alternative to fill in for a couple of guys that, you know, depending between now and Friday or now and a year and a half from now, a lot of their stars, their contracts are done. Shifley, Wheeler, a couple more years hellebuck yeah you know winnipeg is they need to get aggressive here they've lost three in a row they're up on calgary by five points to stay in the playoffs that could shrink yeah in a week sure you know it could like they my general criticism of shovel day off has been just a lack of aggression like with this core here he's got to do something he's had that reputation though

as just way down not it's a great way to keep your job we haven't trained any prospects we're okay uh we'll eventually get us to a david poyle conversation there's a guy that's kept his job for over 30 years um and now we know that's coming to an end but before that uh maybe calgary might be licking their chops a little bit knowing that pierre luke dubois is out of the lineup did you see that so is that true the dubois thing that dubois i don't know i just i don't know if what borne he on a saw. I just, I don't know what born he said. It could have been a, it could have been a joke. I'm on it.

Sammy, you got to confirm that for us. What do I look like? I got sourced with pure Luke Dubois? I was, listen, I was scrambling around a little bit at the start of the show. I wasn't checking in on Luke Dubois' hand at Home Depot. Well, you were, you know, let's be honest. Yeah. We couldn't get you away from the the blue jay preseason game okay let's i i am wearing my jay's hat today so yeah i was all

i was all in on whoever played for the blue jays today but i i don't know what's going on with pierre luke dubois is that true borny i don't know but either way it doesn't make much of a difference in terms of the jets still need more players and fast okay well it's a big story if it's true if he's hurt yeah you think well i mean what does it change they still need a person they need better players now either way don't they they run the risk of missing the playoffs without them that's true that's a big one yep seattle is now the two wildcard spots are currently held by winnipeg and seattle the kraken who i recently declared that i just had had enough of this season they're in trouble last wildcard spot just begging the flames to figure it out hey what's

your thought on the flames you keep saying cryptic things about the flames and i can't figure out what you're trying to say is going on that That they may miss the playoffs? Yeah, they may miss the playoffs, but you mentioned Tree Living doesn't have a contract. Tree Living's like... Does that imply he'll be aggressive? Or... No, what it implies is that he's not in any position to sell any pieces like David Poyle just did

prior to the announcement that he'll be leaving. No real surprise there correct i don't know a guy who's there forever it's always a surprise when he's not there but i am surprised like a surprise they also interviewed barry trotz they had like a welcome yeah this has been in the works for a long time so my question then is you can't tell me that trotz now is not the assistant gm no he's the guy like even today yes oh yeah like you're not going to make a move without the guy who knows he's going to have the job okay he's he's in all the calls now this was yeah really set up for now barry trotz getting his feet wet as a general manager right up until Friday. Boy, you can get pretty wet feet by trading Eckholm and God knows who else you want to trade there out of Nashville.

They're full sellers now. And they've won three in a row, mind you. The ownership group in Nashville went to David Poyle a while ago and said, listen, you got to give us a contingency plan on your way out here. You got to tell us how we're gonna we're gonna break this thing off and i think for the most part you know the sense was around the hockey world was david poyle wanted his son to take over but he's not ready and that uh i think brought in barry trotz around christmas time that uh this really this whole thing kind of came together in the last four, six weeks.

And now Barry Trotz is right in there, right up until Friday's deadline on calls from here on in. And probably had a big play into what's going on there. And Tanner Janot and now Ak I hear is very much out there, very much in play. I think the Leafs were right in there as well before they decided on Jake McCabe. And now there's a real strong sense that the Edmonton Oilers

are finding ways to make it work. At home would have cost the Leafs Matthew Nyes. I'm glad they didn't do that. I don't know what Ekholm's going to look like the next three seasons at 6.25. I think he'll be fine for a couple of years. Yeah. I do. And right now, I hear for the Oilers to make it work,

they'd have to be willing to give up Broberg. That's the name that's out there. Which is something they have to do. They have to. You know what's wild? I totally agree. The Oilers are the only team in the NHL that has their first round pick from the last 10 years still in their organization.

You look at who they picked in the first round in the last 10 years, every their organization you look at who they picked in the first round the last 10 years every single player is still a part of it this is just to point out how passive they've been in terms of trading picks and prospects for it's actually i think 11 of their last 12 guys only yakupov is the only guy who's not in there so yeah they can go ahead and move a few guys and know comfortably that they've comfortably that they haven't been selling off assets. The other thing too is, much like Kyle was able to convince Chicago to pick up 50% of McCabe, they're going to have to find a way for Nashville to pick up some salary off Elkhorn at 6.25. I think you'd have to bring that thing down for edmonton to four four two five four five yeah

now you're talking broberg plus then if you're saying we're gonna pay you yes you know hang on to smell a year for us connor mcdavid thing sense of urgency thing well yeah if you don't get aggressive now for connor mcdavid i'm sorry ken holland has let the team down failed failed this is this is wayne gretzky in his prime yes you know this is the time to go not go and say well we want to make sure we maintain all of our development shut up you go get the good players for connor save those picks i guess for when connor leaves because you didn't make any trades that's's right. And that's it. You don't win.

You don't get aggressive. He's not sticking around forever. Yeah. But this, there's still teams looking right now. LA Kings, a lot of people thought that they were close on. Chikrin, something happened there. No question. Everybody I keep talking to said something switched that they really thought the deal

was done a while ago and uh so they they they still want to improve um kings do yeah and gabrikov is out there as well i love when someone like bukala comes on and you know really watched a bunch of video and breaks the guy down you know gives you a different perspective about the way a guy plays and what he could do for a team yes he'll help your team if for depth d for sure but he's not gonna change your top pair or anything i think uh first third and a fourth for that eh that would be that's got to be like a list price when you expect to get one first and a third or something a lot of people talking today that uh yarmo and columbus got caught oh yeah yeah they had some offers early on with the boston thing and boston waited it out and then at the

last second washington off the loss of detroit last week became sellers right so all of a sudden there they turned down other offers that might have been better and now it's yeah and listen there's there's still teams out there that i don't know 50 50 detroit like a couple days ago they're right in the mix check detroit's schedule i think they got ottawa twice they do. They play back to back nights. All right. I mean, a couple of losses there and now everybody said Bertuzzi's off limits, but I don't believe that to be true. If they lose back to back against Ottawa, sneaky,

huge swing game in the Eastern conference, like Ottawa has, you know, games played on everyone. They be Detroit twice in a row here. They become, they're in the mix right yeah so for detroit that would be obviously a big swing so there are there are

teams that still are a little undecided on maybe a few pieces i wonder if florida could lose a couple if they wouldn't no they wouldn't give up after winning the president's trophy last year there's just nowhere to go for florida in terms of getting better well just in terms of yeah in terms of getting better they have no assets you don't want to you don't want to trade picks you want to be trade good players to get worse because you're you don't have your first round pick yeah and you don't want to get into that lottery area which they're too good to now but like you you want to be going north not south if you're them you have no pick to get better so yeah um what about the squids they looked bad last night they're they're kind of fading quickly here cracking yeah well can they consider listen they they're in a

while they got off to a good start against the leafs. They get their first goal. And I can watch Giordano's goal a thousand times, and I still will not be able to figure out how Grubauer let that in. It went through his path. It was such a bad goal. Like an awful goal. Yeah. And that. Give O'Reilly credit for creating the complications in front of him.

I really hated the third one too, where Marner comes out from behind the net. To Lilligren. He should get across on that. He's just stuck on the post. To me, that's an issue. I mean, great goal, but yeah. The Giordano goal completely changed the energy off that start for Seattle.

Funny you mentioned the third one too, because in that goal too, you could say, ah, he he was screened and the other one was a post-apostle it's like okay well these nhl goalies they don't get through right they don't get through that hurts but they are in a wild card spot and the west doesn't really have any challengers like it's flipped because remember last year the islanders finished ninth in the east last year and they were do you know how many points they were out of the playoff spot last year? 16. The eighth seed had 100 points. They had 84. This year it's flipped where the West is

becoming that. If Calgary doesn't get their act together, Seattle can limp into the playoffs. Yeah. And I'd love to say they'd get dummied by whoever they play, but who's any good in the West? I just got a source sent me a text gudas is for sale you want gudas i think the leafs would have wanted gudas pre mccabe

yeah they always liked gudas didn't they well i don't know they had the chance to sign them in the off season i think they passed but they've they've definitely been they've circled each other before in the past for sure that's a luke Luke Shen, Gutis coin toss, isn't it? Yeah. I think I'd rather have Gutis. But I tell you what, I'd rather have Gutis on my third pair than Lilligren. Don't hit me. Whoa.

In the playoffs this year only, not for their careers. So maybe Kyle's not done. I don't know. I disagree with that. Lilligren's been so much better this year. I can't have enough guys that just maybe just put a little fear in god and your opponent don't underestimate that gudas won't yeah he'll run into somebody and then turtle and they go to fight him so oh it happened once that happens all the time

arbor jack i why if i called him out for it it happens all the time yeah yeah i mean interesting to know if that would intrigue them i don't know but like if you're florida what are you selling you get a third pick third rounder for gudas and then what i don't know a couple good games tonight boys boston edmonton is an excellent hockey game and you got detroit and ottawa which now is sneaky meaningful and you've got a vegas and colorado tonight too so some good hockey what is going on with colorado who's their centerman guys like take a look there's slim pickings god do they not need somebody yeah they well there's all this talk that they were going to get one of the big names it was going to be cane or taves or you know everyone was talking about oh they'll look good in colorado

none you know we talked about moving early because you're not sure what's going to be left here. Yeah, you got JT Comfort as your second line center right now with them. Yeah, not good enough. They're going to get healthy though, right? Are they missing? They're missing a lot of great players. Yeah. You know, Landis Coggs out, Helms out, Eric Johnson's out, Francoose, McCarr's out.

Like, they got a lot of people out of the lineup right now. Right. Lars Eller. That's what I'm calling to Colorado. Lars Eller. Yes. Lars Eller. Yeah. Love it. I think that's a great fit for them, isn't it? I don't know. Washington's in selling mode.

You know who else is an interesting name is Jensen on Washington. If they're going to sell off their D, he's a pretty good defenseman. He is. He breaks it out well. Yeah. Just want to pick up on Pat Kane. And I think you talked about this earlier just in terms of sometimes the fit,

the chemistry. And, you know, I'm just looking at that, say, first power play. And who's out if Kane comes in? Yeah, what are they? Tarasenko's, Abinijad, Panarin first power play. And who's out if Kane comes in? Yeah, what are they? Tarasenko's, Abinijad, Panarin. Panarin. Fox. Fox on the point.

And Chris Kreider. Kreider's like the best power play. 50-goal score in front of the net. That's his spot. So who's out? I tell you what, if you don't want to trade for tarasenko and not have him on the first line because you will hear it yeah really see i don't

understand some of this vanity stuff like you want to go chase a cup and go pick your team and go play for them like you're also asking to bump guys off positions and i don't think that's reasonable i think it's fair to say i want to play there and play the second line and take what you can get and be a part of it. See, the other thing I look at with the Rangers and skill out of the yin-yang, we know that with Zibanejad and Kreider and Panera and Kane. But who's Mitch Marner back-checking

out of your stars on that oh yeah no that's a real thing with that group who's coming back to help out here yeah it's not like Panarin or Tarasenko or two way forces or no it's a good point like that to me is the one thing that kind of stands out

is that I mean their stars don't have not one of them has this kind of like pedigree of being a 200-foot guy. Yeah, Devils-Rangers first round might be a great series to bet overs in, even though the goaltending is good in New York. Yeah. My source also says on Gudis, problem is with Gudis, he puts the fear of God in also his own team. His own team.

Put the fear of God into you and his teammates. All right. I take back what I said about Lilligrid. All right. Give me Lilligrid. Take it back. Oh, my God. Look at the weather out there.

What is happening? Oh, it's coming. Oh, my God. Not T- tea time weather. Our thanks to Jason Bukala, who will be on your sets all day Friday for Sportsnet's trade deadline show. Find out where Mulligan's going again. That's the latest right now. That's all that'll be left.

All right, boys. Have a great night, and we're back tomorrow. Real Kipper and Born.