Real Kyper & Bourne - Auston Matthews Hits 500 Career Points at the Bank

Episode Date: January 4, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne, and Sam McKee kick off the show by discussing Auston Matthews getting to 500 career points in a wild game vs. the Blues at Scotiabank Arena. They also chat a potential contract extension for Michael Bunting - what would that look like from a dollar perspective, and would playoff success tilt that number upwards at all? Sportsnet's Anthony Stewart stops by to share a Leafs point of view (41:27) - could Matthew Knies eventually fulfill a top six role for the team? Afterwards, scout Jason Bukala takes a look at Canada's World Juniors performance so far, and whether or not the hype should be believed on Connor Bedard (1:03:55). The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590 The Van. We are back. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne. We're not in boxes on the screen. It's tripping me out. Oh my God. Why do they throw us curveballs like this? I don't know. I kind of like it. You focus?

I don't know. I kind of like it. You focus? I don't know. I'm generous. To me, this is good. I like this look for Kipper and I. The robots aren't working. I know. Come on, camera robots. Just kidding, Jen.

Kind of reminds me of the old Hockey Central at Noondays. This one here? Yeah, with the two shot. Well, you know what? If we zoom out farther, we got room for a three spot here, Sam. You can get in here. See, I never experienced the Hockey Central at Noon here on TV. Well, you guys did it in the CBC.

They did it the big deal way. Buddy, I used to watch you every day on it. Here? Yes, here. No, we did it at the CBC. Yeah, it was at the big table. No, we did it here the CBC. Yeah, it was at the big table. No, we did it here. I messed up once, didn't have the interviewer on TV,

and had you guys on radio only, so the radio heard everything. TV heard you guys and no guests, so definitely you've been here. I can't remember what I had for breakfast today. Maybe that's the bigger issue in all of this. I got to say, we're getting some early positive returns on the two shot from the youtube commenters really yeah i mean it's a good look it's almost uh like jimmy kimmel kind of feel am i jimmy or you jimmy or the tonight show with uh i'm just ed mcmahon i just sit here

and go yep see i was almost gonna drop almost going to drop a Johnny Carson reference, but I'm like, no, you dinosaur. Don't do it. And you did it for me. Andy Richter's a better reference, but I wanted to keep it up your era. I appreciate that. All right, Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne,

Derek Brandeo, General Nick, Sammy McKee, Leafs coming off a 6-5 loss to the St. Louis Blues in, can you believe it, their first shootout of the season. Yeah, it never happens. Is that true? It's one of those things you're like, wait, can that be true? How can you go almost half a season without pushing it to a shootout? I want to say in the past few years

and you know I don't know why I didn't do this prior to the show but I think they had three last year Not many. I want to say they were in three last year I can do this really quickly here I love the shootout So Sammy has some contrarian takes that I think are contrarian just for the sake of being contrarian. That's not

one. I think he believes that. He loves the shootout. I just love... I just think it's a... It tells me a lot about a player, how they handle the shootout. Last year, the Leafs were in four shootouts. Yeah, I don't disagree with you. I think as a pure spectacle, why wouldn't you love

one-on-one? Well, because it's not just a pure spectacle. Oh my God, the year before before they were in one shootout. Yeah, they don't do many. It is. It's just a... It's just a... Yeah, you're going to stick around and watch it.

You could love it or hate it. Much like car accidents. You're going to slow down... To love those? To watch them. Well, you love them because you're not in them. Right, okay, fair enough. You're right. You have to check them out. But you will slow down To watch them. Well, you love them because you're not in them. Right. Okay. Fair enough. You're right.

You have to check them out. But you will slow down and watch it. Yes. And I will say, as shootouts go, I am an NHL watcher. I watch a shootout every night. That's just the way the NHL works. That was unbelievable. There were some goals in that shootout, like poor Jordan Bennington's ankles between Marner

and Matthews. And Nylander got him, too. He just flubbed the shot into the top corner. Yeah. And he made a good save on Sandin. But I just, do you agree? You know, it says a lot about Braden Shen who goes in there and just goes top speed, picks up the puck, and fires it over the blocker.

And ends it. And just tells me what you need to know. He's not farting around, coming out to the sideboard, six dipsy doodles. He just goes in there, shoots a blocker, goes in the net. So you roll your eyes all cynical about those guys. Two guys on your team did that and scored six goals. No, not even close. Matthews swung out a little bit.

That's in pace, yeah. But he had pace and that cut to the backhand. Like, I just love seeing what these guys think of. And it just, it doesn't happen that often. So Marner with a nasty one too. I love the shootout. Not in big games. Not in world championship games or Olympics.

Not with any stakes or anything. But in the regular season, why not? You know what I was thinking about in the shootout? What? How are these two goalies still in this game? Because they stunk last night. Agree. That's a really great point.

Ten goals between the two of them and they're in there. And they also gave up how many? Six goals in the shootout? and they're in there. And they also gave up how many? Six goals in the shootout? Somebody get yanked. Yeah. I don't understand. And even Samsonov. Yeah.

Like, how many leads that you came back, you're close, and you're like, this guy just doesn't quite have it tonight i i was thinking this is going to cost the leafs a point or two keeping them in yeah it's actually one of the under-discussed downsides of having a tandem is you don't want to put the other guy in because then the other guy is going to go the next night right and so now your whole rotation your goalie plan is off you can't just put them in exactly what i was gonna say that fifth goal goes in and sheldon's the backup he's in the net there's just no question i twitter like as soon as that fifth one went in they went in such succession it was bing bing bing i said pull them is there any hole this year and i think i think they're

probably afraid of murray so that's one theory the other theory theory is that you're scared you're going to lose him. You're scared that he's going to, I don't know, lose his confidence. That's part of it. Let's start out with Samsonov on his comments last night because for the most part, now that we're coming close to the halfway mark in the, in the season, I'd say,

can you give me a percentage of the overall, uh, uh, positive vibes for both these guys at the halfway mark? Like, give me a percentage of, of, of the positive. So like, am I like 50% positive for these guys at the halfway mark like give me a percentage of of the positive so like am i like

50 positive for these guys okay yeah i mean about there i'm i'm doing a vibe i'm doing a vibe check i'd say for the first half of the season there they've been 80 85 all positive yeah right but now we're on how many games we're going back a lot of games till you find one where you go boy the goalie sure good wasn't he so i want you to listen to samsonov talk after the game and you tell me that uh can i say what sammy called him before we listen to this no no after okay after just listen to samsonov and his tone and the way he comes across and you tell me that that the majority of the season has been positive for both these two guys let's have a listen to Samsonov last night how do you uh try to have a short memory with each game that passes to just

you know flush it then kind of focus on the next it's not too easy it It's hard. The same work like in a gym or on ice. You need to come to the game with a good mental spot. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. Tomorrow is a new day. The sun is and uh we're coming back to working hard he's down like he's down yeah sammy called him russian jack campbell oh no no oh no russia jack it's i mean but i get Does that sound like a guy that for the majority of the season, it has been positive for him and Matt Murray? No, it doesn't. He sounds like he lost his puppy. I think part of that is what you get when you have a guy whose whole career rides on one season, right?

Like you're waiting on a next contract, on a next NHL opportunity, and you only get how many starts as a tandem guy in a season who's been injured. You might get 30 starts all year. So each one is a significant percentage of how you're weighed, and when it goes wrong four in a row, yeah, even if it went well before, your puppy's missing if not lost. Missing.

I didn't like the part where he says sometimes it works and sometimes not the not part worries me that is concerning right he also said the the sun will come up tomorrow and i don't know if you looked outside in toronto today but god this is a quick aside the weather here is horrible just snow there's no sun it's awful anyways it is very gloomy i'm just the thing that scares me the most about this is the track record with sansanoff with the hot starts and then get gone yeah and it's kind of happening again so he still makes some 10 beller saves The one in overtime, off the rebound, was an absolute 10-miller. But you can see parts of his game

where, okay, I get why Washington let him go. Like there's sometimes you look at the net and it's like, it looks pretty 6x4-ish open. Yeah, who, someone had a breakaway and he caught it. I forget if it was a shootout attempt.

It was Kairu when the whole left side of the net blocker was wide open. He shot it right in his glove. That's when you mess up and you get bad information back, like as in like, it worked. He caught it, but it's like, he wasn't in a good spot on that. No. He just looks

to me like sometimes he just cannot stay in control of his body movements. Yeah? Too busy? I don't know what it is. Is it too busy or is it just misreading? I don't know what it is, but there are just some times you go, okay, how did he fall or how did he end up in that body position he's on his stomach

too quick you know that was actually i had a college goaltender that was a tendency of his really good goaltender but the second one shot would come he leaned so far forward he's on his belly and he's scrambling the kairu goal you know it hits him like to see him hang on to it and now because he's on his stomach he's got no no mobility um You know, the Levo goal, he's leaning forward. That's why, you know, the rebound is not able to move laterally. So, yeah, I agree. A little bit floppy, a little bit of concern with old Sammy. And it does, maybe it is confidence-based, but at least that's fixable.

Absolutely nothing to like out of that game. And I'm just thinking, like... Either way? Either way. Yeah. Like, like okay maybe the fourth line maybe for the leafs yeah yeah okay and we'll get into that a little later because i know that you you liked uh what you saw out of hunt yep but outside of that oh yeah really i don't even know if you if you're sheldon today and you want to go back into the room today and show that or you just burn the tape.

I didn't realize you thought it was that bad. Oh, no. It was a garbage game. You know, we have a lot of stuff we're going to talk about today, and I hope this doesn't derail the conversation and take us too far. But Matthew's struggling for me. He's just he does not look like the hockey player he can be like the best of him where he's barreling through the the middle of the the the rink with the puck he's controlling the play he gets eight shots last year i tweeted

something like you don't want to give matthews a goal in the first period because when he starts sniffing like when he thinks he's gonna have a night i think craig simpson mentioned on the air last night i think he scored 15 multi-goal games last year we're in january he's got one so i don't want to hear that like oh you know he looks the same or it's just he's not looking the same to me and it's not that he's not bad he scored a beautiful goal off one foot off a great pass like no one else can yeah but it's just not the same for me i'm with you yeah 100 like last year it was take over it was mcdavid matthews matthews mcdavid who's better at times and yeah matthews can go on a uh a streak that could say oh no no, this week he's the best player on the planet. That's just, that's never had, we've never had one conversation like that.

That type of level, to your point, he has not hit. I mean, he's outside the top 20, I think, in points. I think if he gets 25 points in his next game, he won't catch McDavid. You know, like it's. So I think, you know, they've kind next game, he won't catch McDavid. You know, like it's. So I think, you know, they've kind of flipped roles with him and Nylander. I think Nylander is the one on that line that really seems to be driving the play. He was the best player in that arena last night by a good distance. I think he's kind of driving the play with Matthews and Matthews is kind of riding with him.

I think he's got a really high standard to live up to especially after last year where he was the mvp like over the 60 goals like we said but i'm gonna have to agree that it just doesn't look the same and i don't know how to explain it really i i it just maybe it is a regular season doesn't matter and he's you know playoffs are the only thing and it's he's not putting the same pressure on himself for the chase and for the heart trophy and for all that stuff maybe he is just truly it's a team thing this year maybe there is something to be said about his energy at that level yeah and i don't know if he's physically feeling as strong as he did last year is. Yeah.

Energy and tired is an interesting. Did he come into camp in great physical condition? Did he not? But there's the, the, the lack or the inconsistent energy level for me is the one thing that stands out. He can obviously do things. Other players in the league can't,

he takes that pass from Nylander catches it, whips it like it like you know and it's the fastest leaf in history to 500 points fastest leave in history to 500 points no one is saying he's not special i'm just saying he was the best player in the league last year as voted by everyone and he's not been that this year so you know curious why the fall off not like he got old why this year it hasn't looked quite the same but i think it's at least noteworthy anyway 500 points fastest in leaf history and jb just buries him today to start the show just buries him it's no good day to do it it's not like we haven't said it in group texts for months it's not like everyone at home in their group chats not saying the same thing. How many

of their goals did their line score? All of them? Last night? So yeah, I know. It was Engvall got one and then Bunting had two. Willie had one. Matthews had one. So their line kicked the crap. I feel like Hannibal Buress. Why are you booing me? I'm right.

If we want to extend this conversation, let's go to the second center iceman for the Toronto Maple Leafs, and Tavares. I thought he struggled again last night. And I don't know whether or not Sheldon's identified this. I did go look up his minutes after 40 and i had six leaf forwards with more ice time than john tavaris yeah he played 18 minutes last night and a lot uh came down the stretch and i think he had significant minutes in overtime.

He led the team in power play ice, which bumped that up. I don't know what's going on there. But if you would have told me that an $11 million player would be six in ice time at any point during an NHL game, I'd go something might be not right. You know, yes and no because when that contract was signed you looked at the seven years and you said i worry about those last three you know but you think he's protecting him uh no i think he's probably you knew you'd be paying for more than you were getting at this point of the contract but maybe not this much

of a drop off from the start of the season but the fact that it was there in the start early start of the season does that give you any confidence that it's still there it's just maybe tired or maybe i don't know you know this is a team that's stuck in the middle of the standings where they're going to be basically could there be some uninspired factors here just trying trying to get through it, get the points. I woke up today saying that maybe Bo Horvat isn't such a bad idea. Really? Yes.

Yes. For you to say that, you must think the acquisition cost is not that atrocious or what? I don't know. He's a rental. We know that. For Toronto, New York, you will have to pay, I think still significantly,

but it is just to try to win the Stanley Cup this year. I think to do that, you have to come to the conclusion that Tavares ain't it anymore. Well, no, listen. Either he drops to number three. Or you move him to the wing. Right. But... I want to start if i start thinking about the playoffs and tampa bay has to look at matthews horvat and tavaris up the middle oh listen it's awesome

it's awesome that's a that's as good as you can get to start the Stanley Cup playoffs. Yeah. No, it is for sure. Now you got me all fired up about it. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. But the pure rental thing is not something they've done much of or want to do. You have Tavares can still take face-offs, but you can alleviate a little bit of that pressure

if there are nights like the first 40 that i saw where he's just not relevant yeah i'd say that's a big question to figure out is how what you're gonna have from tavara's when you need him and how to use him in a way that you get the most out of him because he's still john tavara's you give him a puck in the blue paint he'll finish it he'll tip pucks in good vision like he's you know yeah but he's not going to create god i think he's got five points in 16 games now or something like it's three goals and those 16 or 17 yeah michael bunting has almost caught him in points on the year like it's it's significant to drop but the thing you've noticed about him during his time here is there are i guess it's with any players

but it's ebbs and flows the season like he'll go through he'll get to his point per game pretty much it's pretty much a lock do you still feel that way i do it's five back i do feel like he'd go through a stretch where he's gonna get he gets hot gets on the power play gets a hat he gets in it he could end up with three points against seattle on thursday night and nobody would be overly shocked but i still think he's gonna come at the end of the year he's gonna end up with between 78 and 83 points you know what's funny is when i was writing so i wrote an article today and when i was writing the article uh it was about justin well i was gonna do it about justin hall and uh some positives for the

leafs nylander uh holmberg justin hall has actually been good since the fans booed him. Like it was like a turning point in his season. And I got lost in Justin Hall and I ended up writing about him specifically. And the reason I did that is you have guys in the roster who are set. Like TJ Brody has been awesome since he's come back. But we know his spot in the roster, right? We know where he's going to be. So we end up spending a lot of time talking about the fringes of things.

And it's funny that we're talking about Tavares now, because I just, is he a guy now that, yeah, you have to figure out, we're always thinking about playoffs. What's it going to look like in playoffs? Yeah. And the only thing Sammy is, yes, he's, he'll find a way to just almost be that point of game guy over the course of the regular season. You just worry about, hopefully you get through round one in the playoffs but where's the where's the energy that he will portray uh every night i mean this

skipper forward i don't give a damn i want him to get through one i want them to win a round so badly for their fans yeah i like i can't so past i i'm now past just one round i just i'm thinking a conference final one round give us one johnny it's so sad it is so i'm sad for you and sammy right now you know it's a desperation does to a man i'm not i'm not there i i think create moves or create energy that will get you uh out of the east three rounds tampa bay has won four games in a row by the way not satisfied now now four games four points back with uh three games in hand all right michael bunting the first leaf player not matthews not marner not nylander but michael bunting this season to score multiple goals in back-to-back games right on the heels of hearing that contract talks are slowly starting with bunting and

the toronto maple leafs preliminary talksliminary talks. How do they not? How do they not? The guy had 63 points. I know it wasn't the best of starts for him, but he is almost back to that pace, is he not? Yes, yeah. 55, 56? Yep. He's been really good for a stretch here.

You're right, though, about how do they not. Like, to me, any conversation with good players in your team whose contract is up is call the agent and go what are you guys thinking like what are you looking for no that's not the way it works i mean isn't that the first call just find out what the expectation what that is term important is money important what's the yes and yes yeah yeah you do not you hey kyle let's go this is on you this is not on the agent or michael bunting so then walk me through what the process looked like what do you got for me kyle that's the agent that's kyle calls him and says yeah are we are you to pull a Jack Campbell here and just let me go to free agency? Are you going to pull a Hyman on me and just feel like I'm not?

And if I'm Kyle, I say maybe I will. What do you want? What are we doing here? I'll just keep doing my thing. And maybe tomorrow you'll feel different. It doesn't sound healthy to me. It doesn't sound healthy for Kyle. It's very healthy for Michael Bunting.

You do not throw out any numbers at all. It's on Kyle Dubas to make an offer. And one day you just hope that you make an offer that they cannot refuse. And that's how a deal gets done. But this is not on Bunting's camp. So when someone reports that they've been in touch with Bunting's agent, which I believe was the report yesterday, I think it was LeBron, that someone has been in touch with their agent,

would that be a contract offer then? No. No, that would be, if you're Bunting, bunting it's like oh you've noticed how good i've been the last little while okay good great right uh you could start talking about comparables and you look in la and your former player kyle just signed a pretty good deal in los angeles i think for four point lots four point five i don't know just revisit that one yes 20 million 20 million i think over so five years kyle are we in that neighborhood because i can make an argument my players even better than that so what about can you make that's weird what about the nick paul deal seven times 3.15 is his contract uh yeah that's uh seven by the way

so many uh i i i think it's beyond that yeah i think five year 4.2 million contract. $4.2. So could you convince him to take $4.25 times five or six or seven years? I got to tell you, I don't love that. I don't love that at all. I don't like that at all. He is a 60, 55, 60-point guy in the last two years. No, he's not. Then let him go. Then let him go and replace him.

I mean, maybe's not. Then let him go. Then let him go and replace him. I mean, maybe you do. Because unless someone else doesn't notice the roster spot he's been handed over the past couple years, he doesn't drive a line. I don't begin to understand what is acceptable and not acceptable. I'm just telling you where the marketplace is for him. If they choose not to use it,'s that's on uh bunting and uh right and his agent yeah but if this guy puts up 55 and they have just a sliver of success in the playoffs to get out of the first round bunting would play a part in that that guy on the open market someone's gonna give him yeah between four and a

half and five million last night was a perfect bunting game what he drew the penalty on the guy then he scored on the power player right after belishes okay can i tell you this he's leading the league and drawing penalties no good hated that no good leading the league and drawing penalties you don't like it no No good. Great, actually. No. Not just good. Great. No.

No. When you snap your head back. Because you got hit in the face. Because you got hit in the chest. In the leaf. You got hit in the chest and you snap your head back, all you're doing is embarrassing the official. And winning. doing is embarrassing the official and winning all the other officials are watching it going

yeah i'm not you're not getting that call in the playoffs but they have to make the calls that are there and i think he does it consistently enough that he can put doubt into those officials they can't just let calls go we do not agree they will let that go yeah in the playoffs they don't they won't trust him they shouldn't he's a liar so well then you just you just validated my point well your point is 100 correct that he is someone who embellishes but embellishers have a history of having some consistency with it you know caudry being a good example for a guy who not he's in the top 10 again and drawed penalty drawn penalties this year and he does something similar so quickly on bunting's contract i'll let me run this past you guys if he you know takes a

quote-unquote hometown discount because of situation because of ro being from the area. Oh, commercials now. The other opportunities. Hey, cover boy of magazines. This guy's already pretty loved by Leafs Nation. I think there's a big chance for him to be a borderline cult hero if he takes perceived less. Almost like Jack Campbell in the first half. Doesn't that remind you? Very similar. Yeah.

If Bunting would punch a couple people in the face. Yeah. I don't think that plays into it you don't think there's any world in which he is like yeah okay maybe i'll take something that serves with a three and m loved and play with the two best players in the league and i'm staying on my hometown he is a guy i can see doing it you kipper you just seem i you think so or no couple circles cheaper i believe uh i believe like i wrote uh two weeks ago that i thought he he he would fall out of the trend of hyman and jack

hamble that they would find a way to keep him i don't know what that number is how much of a discount he's willing to give but I believe that there is a discount there. But I would think it's awfully close to four. Yeah. I think that's a fair number for him. I was actually thinking about him last night. Four times 3.95. I was thinking last night how much you love to have him on your team between three and 3.5 million.

I think there's teams that will give him the extra five or six years on a free agency. He's 28 when he signs next year. Yeah, that feels old to me. He's going to try to take this to 32, 33. He's 27 right now. He doesn't turn 28 until September, so he's just 27. Yeah, this one's five. Five years, and I got to think i gotta think he gonna get paid three

eight to four million sounds right yeah it's you could live with that at three eight and when you do that i do that i do that sign on the dotted line i told you i'm comfortable three to three five you can talk me into three eight good thing you're not the gm i i've said this straight up right from the get-go that on a stanley cup team he's a third line winger yep and but on the leaves number one yeah yeah i agree and that's why you don't get the low threes. You don't. Yeah. Again, you want to compare it to Nick Paul.

Where's Nick Paul in that pecking order, right? Well, I mean, who would you rather have on your hockey team? Nick Paul. Yeah. All day long. I think it's a clean sweep. I'm like, everyone wants that guy. So did you not send, Sammy, did you not send our group texts about Hagel? I did.

Why? Because I just, I thought that just was a relevant thing to look at in our group. I don't know. I didn't have a real motive, but. Yeah. And you, the point you were making is Hagel still has one five. This year and next year. And then he's an RFA at the end of it.

So three more years of control. I know, but that's apples to oranges. What do you mean? That's not a comparable for Bunting. No, I'm not saying it wasn't comparable for Bunting. No, it's just an F Tampa. Look at the guy they have. That's good.

And who would you rather have, Hagel or Bunting? Hagel. Probably Hagel. Hagel. Yeah. Yeah. Hagel. Yeah.

We didn't talk about the hockey last night. We're 30 minutes in. Yeah, sure. Oh, listen, we're just chewing the fat now. What time of the season, is it? But on the Leafs, with an underwhelming left side, he can hold Kyle right now. Yeah. You know, I think you're always in a good position

where you're willing to let people walk. You know, and I don't think the Leafs are able to say, okay, we'll do four and a half for him or whatever. Like, they just don't have the contract room to pay Michael Bunting that. So it'll be on Bunting to be like, all right, you either fit into the structure or you don't. Okay.

That's what we can do. Let's go to Sheldon Keefe on his overview of the game. As I said earlier, I would not even show this. I'd burn the tape and move forward. But let's hear Sheldon Keefe on last night's 6-5 ot loss i thought uh special teams were a mess for us in the first period um second period i guess there too so that kind of throws the game off a lot uh obviously the scores scores go way up and uh feeling probably a little bit worse than you need to

or than you should because you're pulling out of your net three times there. But I thought we made some mistakes and paid for them. But I like the way that we kept coming back. And, you know, after costing us early in the game, power play comes through for us to ensure we get the point. So, you know, not a night we're going to love too much, but fortunate to get to one point here. That is the softest euphemism for I hated the game I've ever heard. Not a night we're going to love too much.

He's on my page, I think. He hated that game. Okay, before we go further, let's just get his thoughts on Samsonov as well, because I want to kind of bring in our comments after we hear from Sheldon on Sammy. Well, like I said, I thought he should have had, I'd like to see him get the first save on the shorthanded goal.

I know it's not the easiest save because he's moving, but you'd like a save on that one. Aside from that, I mean, you know, I don't know if there's a lot he can do. Like there's one that's first power play goal is bouncing all around. The second power play goal they get is, you know, a rebound he doesn't get much of a chance on. And, you know, the first 5-on-5 goal they scored, it's right in front of them, rebound right there,

and then the last one is, you know, it's a real tough pass that travels a long distance to a very good and dangerous shooter. So I'm not down on the goaltending here today. I think, like we talked about it, when we play better as a team, everybody looks better, everybody is better. So this is certainly not on the goaltending tonight. Yesterday's show, we had Craig Simpson on. We made it a point to talk about five forwards.

We had a great conversation. If you missed it, download yesterday's show with craig simpson and we go into depth on uh the dangers of five forwards yeah and led to the first goal last night shorthanded it did um do you want to hear keith on that before we get further into it keith on five forwards power plays with one defenseman out there gets scored on, too. So, I mean, the group has no chance to succeed if I just pull it off and change it because they get scored on. And if Sammy makes a save on it, we don't even talk about it. So, you know, that's kind of the way it goes.

There's some things we would do differently there, but I don't overthink stuff like that. If it becomes a habit it's different but you know i think like i said power plays with defensemen out there get scored on too see this is where we i disagree with sheldon oh yeah we do not agree heartedly well he this is obviously his idea big time yes he loves it and he wants it to work so bad i'll tell you where i don't know about the first part but definitely so bad i'll tell you where i don't know about the first part but definitely the second i'll tell you where he's wrong we're talking about it even if he doesn't score we're talking about we were talking about it yesterday

and we're going to talk about it again for as long as he goes to fight forwards we're going to talk about it did you think that there was something on that play that a defenseman plays the rush differently? 100%. Yeah. I thought it was played pretty well, like pretty harmless shot from there. Played by who? Marner on the way back. Marner looked horrible on that. I don't know.

I love Mitch Marner. Yeah. But you do not turn your back on a player. You try to skate with him? Yeah. You don't turn your back. Yeah. On a player. You're trying to skate with him? Yeah. You don't turn your back. Yeah. On a player.

There is no defenseman in the world that would ever turn his back on that play. Yeah. Yeah, he's trying to be a forward and skate with him, right? He's skating with him. Yeah. His stick is on the side of the boards. Mm-hmm. And the middle of the ice is completely exposed and then he's got and then he

gets caught to pull a 180 turning his back on there's not a defenseman in the world that would have played it that way yeah i just don't feel like he it's not like he got walked and gave up a break away like he gave up a shot from the outside he played it like a guy that's never played defense in his life that's what he played it like yeah fair enough but i still think to keith's point samson i was gonna stick on the ice he steers that to the corner but that's we go boy they scored last night that's not that's not where this leads to a conversation where it goes from here is that everybody that watched that short-handed goal now has the belief that they don't have to ice the puck i actually thought that on the side play now challenge yeah they now go that i can get i can get those guys marner play d i can i can get

them turning i can get them uh uh pivoting when they they shouldn't i can get them spinning yeah i'm going to challenge if i'm the the video coach, I'm showing my team, Nico Heashier walking on her and then Saad walking on her. And I'm going, just so you know, if you get it and you got room, take the room. You know, take a couple strides before firing it. That's every coach's pregame meeting right now off of that one play. And to our point on the show yesterday,

Morgan Riley, you know, or Michael Bunting is not that much more valuable to the first unit than Morgan Riley is in terms of creating offense, but the value you get from having a guy who can play D and your mileage may vary on that. So it's a top 10 power play, predominantly with Sandin or morgan riley yeah where is the upside for five forwards now trying to be top three right you're trying to be if it's special if it's a 25 you're trying 28 now? 29? Really? I think to your point, to gamble,

the value of giving up a shorthanded goal against in the playoffs is devastating, right? Like if they roll this dice to your point to get 3% better on the power play, which is one more goal over the series. At what risk? At the risk of giving up one more the wrong way, which is

huge. And think about the guys that are killing penalties on Tampa. Ugh. Oh, Braden Point. Sorelli. See ya. Sorelli, Nick Paul. They're just challenging all day long. They're just great transition guys.

Great sticks, poking away, speed, going the other way. I hate it. I hated it since day one. I've been on record. It's awful. It's stupid. Just don't do it. I'd prefer to see two defensemen than five forward.

Well, I think, you know, the plan is not to play Tampa every round. And so you hope that some team doesn't have those guys. Oh, then you go to play Boston. Do they have any good penalty killers on Boston? Well. Does Brad Marchand kill penalties? Patrice Bergeron? Are those guys any good?

They create okay. Taylor Hall? You might want a defenseman out there. I don't know. I still don't feel great about Riley skating backwards against those guys. It's not. Sheldon's wrong. It's not Samsonov making the save, and we don't talk about it.

He should make that save. You're right. We're talking about it regardless, but you still want that save, right? You do want the save, 100%. Yeah. But, yes, to your point, it is something that's very noteworthy and something he's tried in the minors and I've talked about before. Yeah, we have so much more.

I know. We need more time. We're going to take a break here. We got Jason Bukala, former NHL scout, who's been on the show on a number of occasions, writing for Sportsnet.ca. He's in Halifax right now, right? Yep.

Sammy? Yes. Watching the juniors of the world and we're going to get into the connor bedard hype and where is it going from here on in how many teams are tanking just a little faster in the new year sam you saying the analytical comparables for connor bedard like what he's projected to be are like mar Mario Lemieux, Sidney Crosby. And we got Stewie who played on the best team too. Oh, that's right.

No, we got Jason in the back half of the hour. We got Stewie next. Okay, we got Anthony Stewart, of course, from Sportsnet fame. Him and Elliot. Yeah, just him and Elliotiot yeah just him and elliot well i didn't know the name of their show david amber got mad at me because i i don't know the proper uh term for monday night hockey that's on me though because i gotta put that on the lineup yes but it was a tuesday night regional all right we'll get a ton off of anthony stewart on what he thinks about samsonov's play

last night the second line also his jersey is being retired next weekend in kingston with his brother chris and world junior memories as well tons to get into yep with uh stewie after the break you're watching and listening to Real Kipper and Born. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. The Kipper host, Justin Born. Going to bring in some fun now. What are you saying about me? You're okay.

But if I compare you to Anthony Stewart on the fun meter. No, I'm not the life of the party. I'm usually invited to the party, but I'm not the life of the party. I look forward to reading your book because at some point i know you were the life of the party or you tried it might it got you in a whole lot of trouble yeah it got you in a whole lot of trouble that's true all right let's bring in anthony stewart hockey analyst with sportsnet former nhler uh anthony we know you might be one of the busiest guys in hockey between minor hockey and uh working at sportsnet and also now next weekend,

your jersey being retired by Kingston. That's got to be a big thrill. Yeah, it's great. And thanks again for having me, guys. I think it's even more amazing that I get to share that night with my brother. You know, my brother went from an undrafted OHL player as a walk-on to the Kingston Frontenacs

to, I think, having over 100 goals throughout his career to turning into a first-round NHL hockey player. And, you know, he actually had a better NHL career than me. He fought a lot more, scored a lot more goals, but it's going to be a great night. And, you know, we're having some trouble right now reserving a lot of hotel rooms down there. It's very, very scarce in Kingston.

So we're bringing down the whole family for about 14 hotel rooms. So I usually play for free in the NHL, but I'll be paying for free in the OHL that night. So how did that come about? How did you find out? And what was your initial reaction when you heard? I just randomly got a call in the middle, I think it was October, saying, hey, this is what the plan is going to be.

And I was like, well, you know what? That's actually great because I'm actually working with Mike Zygomanis and he was the last guy to get his jersey retired. And he was asking me when the mine's going to happen. And I don't know, maybe on the 35th of February. And, you know, I actually played with David Ling in the British League during the last lockout. And he said, Stewie, when you were and, you know, I actually played with David Ling in the British League during the last lockout. And he said, Stewie, when you were there, you know,

you were the king of Kingston. But when I was there, it was called Langston. So it's good that it's happening because I was getting ripped on for about three, four, five years now. So it's a great accomplishment, but it's an amazing city. And I don't think a lot of people really understand how blue-collar Kingston is. It's amazing fans. It's an amazing organization. And I don't think a lot of people really understand how blue-collar Kingston is. It's amazing fans.

It's an amazing organization, and I'm grateful for my opportunity to start my career with the Frontenacs. Is that part of your connection with Kingston, Stewie? I remember reading your story. ESPN did a wonderful feature on you and your brother, you know, basically walking to and from the rink, you know, struggling to make ends meet at times. Blue-collar town, is that sort of part of the reason you guys have connected so much with the city? Yeah, and the fans, it's, you know, they weren't afraid to come up to you and let you know

when you had a bad week or you weren't working hard. So, again, it wasn't about the points or the wins or the losses. They expect a hard-working game. So, you know, some of those games, we weren't really working that hard, but, you know, they of those games that we weren't really working that hard, but I don't know, they appreciated because I really took pride in really trying to win for the organization. So, you know, I think I really set my legacy with my brother who went on to have a couple of years of great hockey going forward. So it's definitely an amazing experience playing in Kingston, but

the fans, they're great. They're great from top to bottom. Again, we played in the old Mem Center. That's my only regret, that I didn't get to play in the new rink there, the Leon Center. And a fun fact, I think for our first playoff game, it was the first time they made the playoffs in about five years, and we actually had to cancel the game during warm-up because of the fog. We're talking to anthony stewart hockey

analyst with sportsnet uh former nhler and soon to have his jersey retired in kingston uh stewie you worked the game last night uh talked earlier in our show that i don't even think sheldon would even spend five minutes watching this uh this game last uh night on video, maybe that's when you just burn and move on. But what were your overall thoughts on last night? Well, we talk about the cardinal sins in the National Hockey League, and coaches say the one thing that you never do is you never let in two proper play goals and a shorthanded goal against.

Usually when that happens, you're probably losing the game, you know, 4-1, 4-2, or 5-2. So the fact that they got a point, I think that's a positive. Samsonov was a little bit shaky, and he's been shaky the last couple starts. But, again, there's not very much that you can really pick apart with this team. They're playing some great hockey their last 15, 20 games, and they are one of the top teams in the National Hockey League. So, you know, I'm going to chalk it up to, you know,

maybe not getting that extra night's sleep in Toronto. I know they took that late-night flight to St. Louis last week. So I'll chalk it up to maybe the jet lag and not spending more time in their own beds. Stu, you got concerns about what's going on in the Leafs' crease right now? Obviously haven't got quite the same goaltending as they did for the first, you know, six weeks, two months. Yeah, I'm only concerned because, you know,

Murray now, can he go and play six of eight or seven of ten? Can he really go on the run and really stay healthy? So that's my only concern. I think Murray can handle the workload, you know, with the way he's been playing. But is he going to have that durability? So, again, looking ahead at the schedule,

there's going to be a couple back-to-backs. You have to find a way to get Samsonov in. So I was talking about last night. He was a week between starts, maybe have a time to hit the reset button and do some training and, you know, work on his angles and work on, you know,

maybe some video. But again, it just seems that he's fighting the puck in that second and third chance. There just seemed to be going in past them. So I don't know. You bring Sheldon up. I don't, I don't know,

but again, there's not much you can pick apart. I think it's easy to point at Samsonov because the team has been doing so well as of late but again i think it maybe reassess after another two free starts and hopefully he rebounds stewie a lot of talk the last few shows uh here uh about the five forwards on the power play uh on your telecast last night i know you and elliot you and Elliot discussed in great length as well. I just want to get your thoughts. Me and Sammy, I think we're pretty much that the rewards don't outweigh the risks.

What are your thoughts? Are we on in Toronto? Yeah. Confirmed. I don't like it. I don't like it because I think the penalty killers don't really respect it when you don't have that shooting threat from the top. And again, I mentioned Riley. Again, he has a pretty decent shot Sandin from the top as well, too. So the penalty killers,

the diamond tends to sag when you don't have that guy that can really, really rip the puck. So I really like I don't like the fact when you have five forwards out there, it's usually a downhill power play or a cross-scene power play. And those goals go in, those tic-tac-toes go in game one through 60. But 60 to 80, it's so tough to score, especially on the power plays that are few and far between. And when the going gets tough, you got to do a D to D, back to D, and just pound the puck second and third opportunities.

So that's how most of the teams do it. So, you know, I do a D to D, back to D, and just pound the puck second and third opportunities. So that's how most of the teams do it. So I can understand the four forwards, but five, it just really doesn't get the respect of those penalty killers. And now you're playing against teams now, as you get into the playoffs, that have some really, really fleet of foot penalty killers. One mistake or one bobble, they're off to the races. And you saw what happened last night on their power play sh a shorthanded goal against it, just defensively, it's not there. So again,

I understand the tinkering and trying new things right now, but I can see them probably adjusting back, you know, when it's all said and done. Stu, you watch, you watch this Leafs team, every single game they play, they've fallen short in the post season. I don't know that, that got some coverage. Maybe you heard. Hasn't happened for them yet. How do you feel about this group, where their needs are compared to previous groups heading into the postseason? Yeah, my predictions have been awful.

But the one that I was correct was when I said that Columbus was going to beat Tampa Bay. And I think that's probably about 14 years ago. But the reason why I said that is because Tampa Bay didn't go through any adversity. The power play was clicking. They had minimal injuries. They were winning the President's Trophy. And they didn't go through adversity. So I think what's different about this Maple Leafs team this year,

they went through that huge adversity when they lost all those defensemen. And they found a way to weather the storm. And you had some guys rise to the challenge and really go above and beyond. You now know what you have in Sandin and Lilligren, where you had those question marks going on in the season. You had your questions about Giordano. Can he now at this age handle 20, 23 minutes? He proved that too.

Say what you want about Justin Hall. He's playing 25, 26 minutes as well too. So you proved that the D can handle it. You had some other players step up as well too. And now you're seeing right now they have a legitimate third line in camp, Kerfoot and Engvall, where they're chipping in offensively well. Dryden Hunt seems like he's fitting well. So they're starting to now look like a well-rounded team as opposed to before.

Hey, we need three of the big four to step up. If not, we're not going to win. So that adversity at the beginning of the season in those last six weeks, I really think it's a different team than last year. And saying that, the first 41 game or the first half of the games uh as we cross that threshold i guess next week is what's needed from here on end did they do enough in the first half of the season to say that uh kyle doesn't need to be as bold as maybe we thought at the beginning of the year to take this team to another level?

Yeah, I think you need to add a forward, but I don't think the fans really understand. Like, this nice guy is going to be a star in the league. And, you know, I know they let Mason Marchman not really knowing what he was going to turn into, but this guy is going to be better than Marchman. He's going to be a 25-30 goal guy, and this is from someone that sees him on a regular basis. So, you know, he can come in possibly after his collegiate season and really slide into that top six,

but I think they need a secondary option up there because Yankroke, he's better slotted in the middle. Sorry, the bottom six as well, too, Kerfoot as well. So if you can get a scoring threat, you always want to load up. So, again, maybe add a Kane. Maybe add a Kane. Maybe add one of these top-end guys, too. And, again, you don't want to lose a first-round pick or nines.

But if you can add a top-end guy for a price that's a mid-level price, I say you've got to pull the trigger on it right now. But, again, I like the D. They've got some depth right now. You've got Timmons in the press box right now with eight points in 11 games. I think the D has proven that they can handle the load as well, too. So maybe add a top-end forward, and I think

that's all the recipe that the Leafs need to make a run this year. Well, we mentioned earlier in the show, even a Bo Horvat. You mentioned Patrick Kane. You know if they go and get these guys, it's going to cost you knives. You cannot have your cake and eat it, too, here.

I can, because I'm not i'm not a capitalist i love it who am i brandon priddle i'll trade you whatever i want go get me dumb butt too that's the second right two seconds and a third or what i think it's connor brown and jeremy bracco should get it done um just looking at the, we've been talking over the past couple days here about the World Juniors, talking about Canada, talking about how exciting it is. You're a guy who's been there, Stu. Right now, Conor Bedard is setting the world

on fire. You were there with some pretty good hockey players, and we're one of them, too. What's it like being on a team with greatness when you're are you waiting for the superstar to take over? Are you the superstar expecting to be the guy to take over? What's the experience like, Stu? Well, I'll add this. My claim to fame is I think why people respect or semi respect some of my opinions was I did lead the tournament my first year there as a

19 year old. But I was bigger, faster, stronger. I was a man. And all the European teams were like, hey, is that Jerome McGinley? What's he doing playing junior right now? So they were scared. But I played with Sidney Crosby as a 16-year-old and 17-year-old. And he turned from Sid the kid to Sid the man the next year. He was a great player.

But what I'm seeing from Conor Bedard, to be able to do that as a 17 year old dominates it's it's something i've never seen and i played with some of the greats and jeff carter who was a leader you know i played with shay weber and gets laugh and finna and what he did at the world junior level has not it's never been done before so you know we had the debate yesterday to the best prospect of all time probably not you know you got the lemieux coming out ray ferraro had 200 goals in his junior level but to dominate as a 17 year old he brought me out of my seat and i'm pretty lethargic these days i'm pretty lazy i was out of my seat when he scored that goal and i and i literally had goosebumps so again he has that wow factor and if i'm a team that has any chance on tanking I'm trading

every single player that's got turn, doesn't have turn, I'm trading the mascot to get this kid because he is that good he's going to be a superstar and I can tell that what he's done at the World Junior so far You can pick now, we're giving you permission here on the Real Kipper and Bourne show to pick any team you want to

see Conor Bedard in a uniform. But it has to be realistic here. It cannot be, you know, obviously a team that can't get him in a lottery. So I can't put him on Colorado? Okay. No, I think for the game, and again, even though I hate their Twitter base and anytime I type in hashtag Canucks, I take a beating. I think the Vancouver Canucks, he's a local product.

They're struggling as of late, too, and he can really bring back that superstar status to that Vancouver team and really turn things around. I'm just imagining the jersey sales for him, and him being Canada's next big star. So I'll go Vancouver Canucks. Listen, JT Miller's determined to get them to the

league bottom so they may just happen yet he's playing good defense i want to check the course but he's playing some good defense from what i've been told by him what i've been told by him yeah he got moved to the wing his coach heard him say he was good at center and he's like that's enough out of him uh yeah it is uh that does seem like it would be a good fit. For you watching this Canadian team go down to the wire and all that, do you still feel invested? Can you be a fan of it now? Yeah, I tune in every day.

It's on Sportsnet, of course, right? Highlights on Sportsnet every night. Yeah, and then typically the game falls on my birthday, so I usually go out to the keg and then I have a nice steak dinner and I watch it live. And, you know, you see people pointing at me. Hey, there's Stuart. I used to play.

And I'm like, don't bother me. I'm trying to watch the game. So it's a big, big tradition in my household. I watch it every single time. It sucks that I'm working tomorrow night with the Leaf game, but I'll be sure to be keeping a close eye on it because it's something that's near and dear to my heart. And before we let you go, did I catch the tail end of you on TV last night, maybe possibly where you said you, you chirped Brent Sutter, the head coach on something? No, he, yeah. So this is a true story where I led the team in, in scoring the year before the year that

we lost to the U S and he brought me in and he put me automatically on the fourth line. So I was like, okay, that's kind of weird. So then he actually said, well, we're thinking of cutting. I said, well, I'm like, well, what are you talking about? He's like, well, you haven't put up any offense. I said, well, you put me on the fourth line, Brent. He's like, well, you're going to play the first line next game and if you don't score, you're cut.

I'm like, okay, I'm going to score two goals. And sure enough, I did. So, again, I was known as the prankster on the team. And it's funny, our first team meal, the coach brought in a scale, maybe weigh-in, and they actually calibrated the scale that I was like 333 pounds. So they were freaking out. But, again, it was a good experience, a good group of kids.

And we actually needed a coach like Brent Sutter to really push our buttons and make sure that we were men's on a mission, for lack of better words. And, you know, it's funny. I watch that game, I think, every so often. I watched it a couple of months ago, and I didn't even know Malkin was playing. And when we beat the Russians 6-1, that's how much we dominated. So it's a great experience. I still hold it near and dear to my heart to this day.

So what was the actual number when you weighed in? Oh, man, I was probably playing at a good 242. I mean, 32, 242. So imagine that, 18-year-old kid, 62, 242. And probably the best skater in the tournament. Yeah, then you're playing Kazakhstan. They're like, what is going on? Not many of those out there.

Well, listen, we really appreciate your time. All the best in the new year, and enjoy your weekend in Kingston. All right, thanks a lot, guys. Go Canada, go. Thanks, Stewie. Anthony Stewart. How would you take to the fourth line bump after leading the tournament in points?

I ain't chirping, Brett Sutter, I can tell you that. No? No. I was just watching the highlights of that game when you guys were talking to him that 2004 five final they just eviscerated russia yeah i mean that team was i mean several hall of famers on it yeah we scored in it in the final nice tapped one past kuznetsov in that oh how interesting so there you go all right we still got a few minutes here. You want to finish off some of our

Sheldon Kippers Clippers here? Sandin in the shootout? No, do we care? Kind of. Dryden Hunt is something I'd like to talk about. I know. The decor. A back end exists.

No, just, again, if you're like Tavares, for instance, and you see Sandin take a shootout before you do, and you're kind of known as a goal scorer, doesn't that kind of piss you off a little bit? Let's hear why Sheldon Keefe did that. All right. Well, we haven't had many shootouts here for the last couple years, and every time, you know, we don't practice them a great deal,

but every time we do, Sandy seems to be the guy that finishes with the greatest level of success. So I've been waiting for an opportunity to try to get him involved. You know, we lost, that's, you know, we're so used to having Jason Spezza out there to be the guy to get us going. So having the first one of the year, things were a little off there, but it was a great goal by Mitch to give us a chance there. Couldn't get the next one.

Can I just say that people are so afraid to talk to the media that everything is a euphemism? How weird is saying that Sandy finishes with the greatest level of success so he wins? Do you mean he wins your shootouts? Like, why do you have to talk weird? You know what I mean?

Every time we do a shootout... You're trying to sell why you... Finishes with the greatest level... Is that better when you hear that out of Sheldon? St. Louis finished with a greater level of success than the Leafs last night. I'm sure maybe

after every practice they finish off with shootouts and he's better than anyone else. Yes, that appears to be the answer. I actually love hearing Sheldon Keefe say they don't practice it because you should never practice it. Ever. You're in the NHL. Yeah. You should know how should never practice it. Ever. Well, you don't though.

You're in the NHL. Yeah. You should know how to do a motion. Yeah, no, that's not true. Yeah. That's not true. After practice, there's no harm. Okay, practice over, we'll throw out a bucket of pucks, everyone.

Why do you go backhand top corner this time? It's like, it's the most natural thing that comes to these guys when they're one-on-one with a goalie. This might be your all-time worst test. This should be the number one thing. This is horrible. The very thing that requires the most fine motor skills

and practicing and guessing and testing. You can get creative. You can work on a new move. And see what makes for sure you can. Here's what works. Low blocker, backhand top corner every time. Yeah, thanks. Push buttons back there, will you?

Yeah. Okay, this is... It's true. It's just I practice it maybe once a week once a month something yeah like the time that they spend the fact that you would spend any time with nhlers not a priority maybe at the very bottom below three on three which they were better in last night had to puck a lot more they were weird it's not penalty it's not shootouts it's breakaways too it's like finding yourself in's like finding yourself alone on a goalie in a split second.

You know why you have to practice it? Because you know this from all those practices. How often do you come in on a goalie alone in practice, and the guy actually tries? In a practice, rarely. You get the goalies, they do that stand-up, not going to go down. No, in the NHL, they try. Well, you don't see guys going down.

Everyone. They play it like game situation. Mike Richter, every breakaway I've ever had on him, it's life or death to stop it. That's how they get to be great. Well, yeah, but it's just not the case that every guy in practice, I mean, looking at American League guys by and large, you get the guys who don't want to go down because they're they're facing 40 shots listen i'm not saying that everyone appears that way but when they put their game face on and they go okay let's work on five here there's five i will treat them like i would in any game situation and you don't quit on it 100 they're

not quitting on it yes so you are you are getting the replica. For sure. And so when I can get a goalie to take it seriously and treat it like then I'm. Which I would say is probably 85, 90% of the time I've been on the ice with NHL goalies. I would just say that a lot of the times you do a full ice St. Louis drill. Or, you know, 9,000 variations of that. Where the goalie's like, I don't know. I don't feel like a guy's willing to go down because there's another shot coming there's another wave of guys you can't i

think i've not played with those type of goalies kipper there's some drills they get 60 shots bad guy guy going guy going guy yeah but they don't quit they don't quit i only know don't quit i'm telling you right now they don't quit if. If I deke in a practice, a goalie goes, okay, you go tuck that in. I don't know. I just felt like when I could get a goalie to try, and he's usually in those shootout drills, I loved it. If he needs to catch a breath, then that's what you're talking about. You're talking about whether or not he's had enough

or he needs to take a break or he wants to rest. There are moments that can look like that. But when you are in the moment, in a drill, and either it's involving everybody on the ice, or it's just a selected group, once they lock it in, you are getting the very best of them. And I loved when that would happen. And that, to me, is when your coach would actually say,

okay, we're going to do the shootout. We're going to all take turns here. I love that you could get the goalie locked in, replicate the situations that they don't come up much in games. You don't get many breakaways in the game to practice. Breakaways are much more instinct than shootout are. Yes, for sure. Because you're coming from different angles and different speeds.

It's rolling and it's in the moment. It's a lot more on a shootout. You're thinking about what you're going to do. You step it on the ice. Everybody's looking at you. It's a lot more on a shootout. You're thinking about what you're going to do. You're stepping on the ice. Everybody's looking at you. It's a much different thing to me. For sure. Thanks.

Jason, after the break, do you want to pick up Dryden Hunt in the fourth line after the break? Yes. After we finish with Jason? It's not important, but, you know. No, I think it is. I thought he looked good last night, and that changes things for them. I think it is.

And we'll chew on that a little bit, but we'll take a quick break and we'll get back into Canada, US tonight. Puck drop 6.30 Eastern, I think. And we'll get Jason's thoughts on that and more. Real Kipper and Bourne after this message. Good enough. This is real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van.

In a little over two hours, Canada takes on the U.S. Big game. I think we're speaking to Jason at the rink, if I'm not mistaken. Jason Bukala joins us now, former NHL scout, writer for Sportsnet.ca, and covering the World Juniors. Jason, are you in a good spot? I found as quiet a spot as I can.

I got to be honest, the party is kind of outside right now you know halifax right so these people get ready for the big one yeah we are and based on how uh the game finished uh against slovakia for team canada there seems to be a ton of energy and a ton of hype for connor bedard and i'm wondering, Jason, where does this hype for this kid rank in recent memory if we go back to McDavid or even Sidney Crosby? Kipper, I'm leaning Sidney Crosby's tournament, honestly. McDavid's team was different. He didn't have this type of impact, even McDavid.

You know, it's different year over year, right? Like, depending on the opponent, and Rush is not here, and there's some moving parts, but at the same time, it's hard to put in words what you're watching here unfold, especially when you're live in the building. I mean, every time the kid

flips over the boards, it's much watch TV. It's been phenomenal like i honestly believe guys that whoever selects this kid in the draft come next june let's just say it's anaheim it's gonna have the same sort of impact that sydney crosby had on the pittsburgh penguins when he was selected there is it tough to evaluate other prospects when you're watching canada just kind of all eyes on this kid. Everything seems to run through him.

Does it change your ability to evaluate other guys? Not for me. Not for me, Vorni. I mean, you know, obviously my take on it is a little bit different than other people in the building, so I can't speak for them because I think everybody just gravitates to him. I mean, you can't help it.

It's just, you know, human nature almost. But for me, certainly, I'm peeling back the onion a lot more and doing it the way I always have over the years. So where is, like, where is the gap between Connor, Bedard, and everyone else? And I include Canada in all of that. And, I mean, Shane Wright's a pretty darn good hockey player and a top prospect. We know that,

but where's that gap between Connor Bedard and everybody else on team Canada? It's not even close. It's not even close. Like, I mean, I don't want to be that guy, but it is what it is.

Right. Then Shane Wright, you know, he's the caddy, and Conor Bedard's playing in the Masters, if you get my drift. I mean, it's just totally different. And the impact that he makes, you know, Kipper, when you play with guys like, you know, Messi back in the day or whoever your really good high-end players were, you know,

like the guy just has such a presence. Like, I watched practice yesterday. Like, even when he walks in the rink, the presence that this person has, this young man has, it's something to behold. I honestly haven't seen anything like it in forever. So here's this pretty flat question, I guess, pretty straightforward.

Is Canada good? Like, they lose to Czechia. They can't handle Slovakia. They dummy a couple of teams that aren't very good. Is this a good team? I honestly think they're up against it tonight, Borny. Like, USA's got 11 players under six feet tall, a really darting dash, puck possession, highly skilled,

transition the puck type of a team. They're not going to dump pucks deep and lay the body on Team Canada. I'm a little bit concerned that Team Canada is going to get exposed on the back end a little bit tonight. You know, Canada's a solid team, but they're a little top heavy with the scoring. Stan Colvin's been excellent in the face-off dot. They've got

the pieces to make it happen tonight, but I believe that it's going to come down to the second layer of players. Guys like Gauthier and Ossipchuk and Bankier and the big guys in the back end like Del Mastro and Nolan Allen. When you're playing

against water bugs, you better take time and space away as quickly as you can and let it be known early within the double IHF rules that you're going to play them hard physically. So they're up against it. I don't know on balance that they're not. I think USA on balance actually has probably got a better team overall, so it's going to be interesting.

The bottom six up front, is there enough balance here throughout the roster? Is this a coach that's just going to have to play Connor Bedard out there for 25 minutes? Well, it's going to be the Connor Bedard power play. No question there. there i mean they'll roll that group over for two or four longer whatever it takes you know gunther ripping pucks on the back end on the weak flank and but like honestly they're it's a good point by you

because i feel like they're a three and a half line team um so if it turns into a track meet um you know it's going to be interesting to see how we strategize this thing something that i didn't always say which was somewhat unusual just from a scouting perspective was um like scouts will track defensive pairings and will track you know matchups and who's winning face-offs on the strong side weeks you know all the stuff that people are bored to hear about. But on the defensive side, Canada rolled out in the first period two games ago 12 different defensive pairings. Now, just think about that for a second. You understand what I mean?

So they're obviously struggling or thinking. They're not thinking of five-man units, right? Yeah, that is concerning. So you've're watching this tournament here now and everyone's talking about bedard who are some names that stand out to you that maybe aren't the you know number one two three guys that everyone's talking about well i'm really excited for the upcoming draft outside of bedard i mean leo carlson's on the ice right now for sweden um i actually thought it would be closer to bedard in the Carlson's on the ice right now for Sweden. I actually thought it would be closer

to Bedard in the ranking. He's not. But he scored two big goals against Finland in the semi-final game. He's a big rig. 6'3", 2'10". Left shot, forward. There's some guys on the underbelly. The Logan Stankoven kid, I love this kid. He's built like a fire hydrant.

He's almost built like Theo Fleury was back in the day. And he gets under checks, wins lots of draws. He's built like a fire hydrant. He's almost built like Theo Fleury was back in the day. And he gets under checks, wins lots of draws. He's a little greaseball to play against. So I love that stuff. But Trey Augustine is a great story, guys. And that for USA. The U.S. National Team Development Program goalie,

he's not even 18 years old yet. And here he is on this stage. So that's pretty cool. Jason Bukala from Sportsnet.ca joins us former nhl scout uh one more for me jason and you might be the perfect guy to to talk about this but the bigger the story goes on connor bedard is it does it make a guy like bill zito in florida feel worse he's got an unprotected he's got a trade last year for ben charot that left a lottery pick unprotected if that pick ends up being in the hands of the montreal canadians for connor bedard could that go down as one of the Montreal Canadiens for Conor Bedard. Could that go down as one of the worst GM decisions in NHL history? Yeah, I mean, you know, this is a delicate question for me,

but I'm not going to skirt it. I mean, for me, it's absolutely irresponsible for a general manager in the National Hockey League to make a trade without lottery protection. So I think I'm on your side here. Like, Montreal Canadiens are loaded with prospects. Not only could they end up with one here, like one overall, So I think I'm on your side here. Like Montreal Canadiens are loaded with prospects. Not only could they end up with one here, like one overall, they could end up with like three or four, let's just call it,

two top five picks in a generational draft. So I'm with you, Kipper. That's for me, there's no mulligan on that. That's a hands-off. Yeah, it's mind-boggling when you think about it. Yeah, certainly. One more for me before we let you go. that's that's yeah it's mind-boggling when you think about it yeah certainly the um one more for me before we let you go i just want to get your thoughts on uh on matthew nyes and where he's at we've been talking about him as a potential left winger for the leafs could he be someone who could contribute or play at least you know kepper you talk 12 14 minutes for the leafs come playoffs

i think he can play 12 minutes. Yeah. I don't expect a lot offensively out of the hop, but his pace, he's gone to another level with his pace. He's killing more penalties. He's tracking up ice as F1 way more aggressively right now. So, like all the little things that will give him a chance to play 12 minutes, even if he doesn't

score, they're in place. So, I think that's a fair observation. One sneak, I'm going to sneak one in. Would you gamble on him or go out and get some more experience on the left side if you're Kyle Dubas? I would make, I would trade Matthew Nyes in the right scenario to go win a Stanley Cup. This is a conversation for another day,

but I'm also thinking on the back end, Kipper. Yeah. Okay. Perfect. Jason, enjoy the rest of the game and enjoy Canada-US tonight. Thanks. Thanks for joining us. Happy New Year, guys. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Appreciate it. Yeah, I'm on board, too. Yeah. Making that trade.

Yeah. Gotta give up knives. Ha! Yeah, I'm now I'm now on board here. It's just so... And it's going to... It's not ideal, but you have to go for it this year. So here's my question.

Sorry, I was just looking something up here. And Jason would. Yes, he would. It's just, if I were Dubas, you know what would be an extra factor, why it would be extra hard for me? It's because everyone has said that I don't care about size. And of course he does. He watches sports, hockey for a living.

And so to trade away, you know, he's brought in Malkin and Patan and all these guys, and to trade away the 6'3", 210 prospect would kill me. Just because it would cement the legacy as the 6-3-2-10 prospect would kill me just because it would cement the the legacy as the non-size size guy it was uh uh maybe it was anthony stewart uh moments ago when we had him on he said he's he's gonna be great he's gonna be good and i'm like okay but i don't I need now. I need. Yes. Today. April. Yes. In theory, you are trading a player.

What a player is going to be to get it now. It's a credit card. You know, you want it now and you want to have to, you're going to pay later and you accept that. But I need it now. Six, three. He's got, he's got man strength. He can physically come in and look heavy. And watch him trade nines for, like, Kane, who's 5'10". I don't think it would be Kane.

I think it would be more realistic if you're going to rent a player, if you cannot get a Lawson Kraus type, which would be the most ideal. I love that guy. Do you? Yeah. Okay. I don't think I watch Arizona enough. Yeah.

Well, listen, I just watched him last week make a great play along the wall, beat Morgan Riley up the ice, and a game-winning tap into Jack McBain. He can make plays. He can make plays. He's big. He's big. He's strong.

I don't think you're going to. Could you convince Arizona to give him up for part of Matthew Nyes? I think so. I don't think you'd convince them. I think they'd be like, yes, okay, here you go. Then that to me, with term, he comes in and he's 4-3. And you know what? Nyes is perfect for Arizona because he's probably at his best when they're in Tempe in three years.

That's the type of trade I have. Or, you know, if Vancouver wants to move Bo Horvat, then you're going to have to give up Nize. They'd want Nize. Sure they would. Yeah. I'd do that way before Kraus. And I guess before Krause you do. Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with Sammy.

If you're Vancouver, would you eat some money for Nyes? Would you say? Well, you'd have to, wouldn't you? Say you'll eat 2.75 Horvaths 5.5? I don't think it's, I'm not sure by then it's going to be an issue. It's only an issue if. Well, not that it's an issue, but, you know, would you want to spend that money somewhere else?

Is there more you can do? Yeah, no, no, no, no. A hundred percent. That's what I was leaning towards. You've got your 5-6 off of Muzzin. Yeah. So if you can get Horvath at 2-7-5, all of a sudden you go...

Get Horvath at 2-7-5. Labushkin was making two last year. You know, you can get another guy. 7-5. All of a sudden you go Horvata 2-7-5 and convince San Jose that you want Carlson. I think What? Do I know you? Eric Carlson? Eric Carlson.

Not the Swedish kid? I'm thinking if you can talk them down 30 cents 40 cents on the dollar, that is something to think about. You want to improve their power play from 25% to 28%? 30. Okay.

32. All right. Yeah, that would be significant at a place where they haven't found a clean solution. He is a defensive black hole. Bold, bold, bold. Yeah. Carlson has no interest in defending. But if he's got the puck the majority of the time, that is your best defense.

He's going to get 100 points this year. It's bold. I'd have to sleep on it a few nights. But that to me, if you're going to save, if Vancouver's going to chip in and get that Bo Horvat number is down as much as you can, then you are looking for an impactful defenseman. Yeah.

Chikrin? I'm sure. Put them all on the wish list. Could you move Morgan Riley out to Vancouver? Is it too late for Vancouver to want Morgan Riley? Oh, my God, Kipper. What's wrong with you guys? We're spitballing here, man.

No, you're right. Let it go. Well, he's got a no move starting next year. Yeah, exactly. Is it not this year? I don't think it's this year. I don't know. I could be wrong.

They don't want that deal. No? No. Do they? No. He's from there. What is this? A feel-good musical?

This is... Who cares? You want good players. Who cares where they're from? They could be from the moon. Okay. I mean, it was a question. It's a great...

No, these are worthwhile questions, and I am happy that we are bringing them up. I'm not saying that you're you're you're not wrong. Right. The current Riley deal does have no move. Yeah. So you'd have to discuss that with him. I would do it. Yeah. Oh, God.

Absolutely. If you could have Eric Carlson. Yeah, you would do that. So Morgan Riley is a very good player. But we've seen very good players be part of a team where somehow it just never truly was a great fit. And I'm also watching a Morgan Riley come in and all of a sudden that tight blue line

is a little loosey-goosey for me. How many games has Riley played? That was his third last night. They've still given up 21 goals in the last five games. The narratives are extremely juicy. They are juicy. They played the best defensive hockey in the Matthews era for the exact time he was out. And they've gone back to stinking again.

It's just an observation. There's no way you can't observe it. It is worth observing. This is the... I'm not saying. I'm just saying. I'm saying. Causation, it's correlation, whatever.

It has happened at the same time. Our job's to watch the Toronto Maple Leafs and make observations. I'm aware of what is happening here. It just sucks to watch the Toronto Maple Leafs and make observations. I'm aware of what is happening here. It just sucks to be the guy who comes out and is like, I don't know about Morgan Riley. Like, he's a guy who's been so good for them, loyal, hasn't, he's probably been underpaid by millions per year.

He's been a great Maple Leaf. Is he the DeMar DeRozan trade? But maybe. The Leafs never got, the Raptors never got over the hump with DeMar DeRozan and they traded him for Kawhi and they won the championship. I know. And he was a beloved Raptor. Maybe. There's a lot of parallels there.

There is one place that you could at least make Morgan think about wanting to play somewhere else. That would be his home. He just got engaged. Tessa Virtue. Congratulations. Congrats to him.

Congrats to him across the country. Canadian power couple. Lisa, maybe you want to ask him if he wants to have the wedding in Vancouver. Oh my god. He'll pay for the wedding. No, that's circumvention of the salary gap. They pay for the wedding No that's their convention of the salary gap They pay for the wedding That's right they can't do that Too bad Scott Moore didn't end up being the guy

But you know Morgan's the next best pick for Canadians I think So just to go back to Andrew Nyes Andrew Nye worked here He still works here Anyways Matthew Nyes. The Andrew Nye worked here. He still works here. Anyways, Matthew Nyes. Yes. I'd be including him in a trade to get a guy to keep them from going to Tampa or Boston. Oh, is that part of it for you?

For sure. Blocking? Don't you think there's a world where Tampa does their fake cap and gets hold of that? Oh, I'm telling you right now it's uh it's an arms race between boston tampa bay and the leafs by for the names we're talking about first yeah you have somebody and all three of them are gonna get wrong he's not wrong you have the three biggest sellers are within the one division i mean three biggest buyers sorry are in the same division i just don't buy that i'm gonna actually not really want a guy but i'm gonna want him enough to keep you from having him

yeah i cannot see that logic the that's right up there with don't practice uh breakaways and leagues but so if they're like hey i guess they're probably never gonna tell you this but they're like hey we're trading them to tampa but if you give us nyes he's yours you're not doing that yes but it's not enough for me to uh say yes to when i said no before the four best winning percentages in the nhl right now are boston carolina toronto tampa bay great three of the best four teams in the league are toronto's first two round opponents awesome so fun exciting yeah that really uh i know you've been harping this for like two years sammy but now i'm on board it just so the west is brutal it's just The West is awful. So Cam Chiron fired out a couple tweets today

about the Western Conference's record against the Eastern Conference this year. In games that end in regulation, the West is 13-33 against the East. So in total games, the record is 24-33-8. Like, just getting smoked. Who's worse?

It's not good. No. Colorado, worse than we expected. Edmonton, worse than we expected. Calgary, not good. No. Colorado, worse than we expected. Edmonton, worse than we expected. Calgary, worse than we expected. Minnesota, worse than we expected. St. Louis, worse than we expected. That's the West.

And now you got Dallas, Winnipeg, and who else is in a spot in the Central? Like, it's scraggly conference out West right now. And that was a bad loss at home for the edmonton oilers last night they looked they went up to nothing dogs five unanswered by the squids and you've got a career year out of mcdavid 11 points and is a career year an all-time year all-time year history points yeah they're calling it the triple crown yeah tim and friends are they like yeah yeah i like that i should really like that too that's pretty good right is it as impressive as you can't get a double crown without winning the triple crown

though so yeah and i think there's only five guys that have done it and gretzky of course one of them but uh mario but outside of that it's uh it's an extremely hard thing to do you know that pacific division right now is something seattle 44 points calgary 43 edmonton 42 you know it's the the alberta teams are in tough because st louis and colorado are out of a playoff spot right now and colorado's getting in for sure so one of you are dropping out seattle anyway yeah they're they're in trouble and the leafs have seattle coming in on thursday and it's just it's a lot less of a gimme putt than it was 12 months ago sure is but like But, like, what really changed? So they added Burakovsky.

That's a big deal. He's a good player. He's a good player. Okay. Yeah, he's a good player. There's another B name, right? Burakovsky and someone else. And then the young...

Beniers has been very good. Maybe that's what I was thinking of. He's been really good. And I will say, the underlying numbers have Seattle as fairly legitimate. They're in the proper quadrant of expected goals each way. So, yeah. Pretty good hockey team.

Not that great. Pretty good. They have just good depth. Like, they've got good players on all four of their lines. It does remind me of the year that Vegas went all the way, just in that their fourth line is actual hockey players. Yeah, and their D their d chord is a little how about jared mccann's on pace for like 40 goals or something who would you rather have jared mccann

or justin hall justin hall by a good distance watch so today on sportsnet.ca i wrote about justin hall i wrote about him because after that boo sesh when the fans are sick of him he had been terrible through a large portion of the season. So I was picking through a lot of his play first half of the year. He's below 50% and expected goals since then. He's been above. He's leading the team in defensive zone. Starts second and quality of competition.

He penalty kill minutes. Do you know who's been on the most on the ice the most for this least this season it's justin hall more than mitch marner more than austin matthews a very good i don't care about that you don't care about the guy who plays the most minutes on the third best team in the league i care with your answer to this question, do you trust him in the Stanley Cup playoffs? Wholeheartedly. Okay, I don't. Same.

Wholeheartedly. He is so reliably effective for them. He's a guy that gets taken for granted. If you look at the guy who leads teams in time on ice for the year among good teams and look at their salaries, he makes $2 million. You can't have this Leafs team constructed the way it is without guys like him who are worth five i didn't like him last night either no it wasn't very good didn't love him last night oh my god who blew by him there on uh was it on uh which

goal was it the uh at the blue line to get stepped around i think it was on sod maybe yes no you guys think willie neilander has a Nylander has a future as a defenseman? Probably not. Did you see in overtime the walk around? Oh, twice. He literally just turned his – he pivoted. I actually – I was like, what happened there? He just let the guy skate around him.

I think that's one of the number one things that frustrates people with willie neilander is we we can't do this no no willie neilander is the best player he was amazing but like going back in history with him if he knows he's not getting to a puck he's probably not putting in that extra stride a lot of the times right like that was always the knock on yes i'll try so people think it's like hyman was like skating a mile a minute and even if he's getting to it or not so it's that was kind of it was funny. It was unbelievable last night for me. I think they need to be very careful with Giordano in the back half too.

So who hammered him last night? Oh my God. Yeah. He got neighbors. He got smoked. Yeah. If he was on the ice today, then they need new doctors. Because he got hammered last night. I hope he stayed in bed all day.

He was looking through some watery eyes with the nose smashed into the glass after that one. And then it led directly to a goal. It did. Led directly to a goal. So, anyway, check out the Hall article. Been reliable for them. Been, you know, a lot better than the start of the season anyway. So if they were going to make a trade for a defenseman,

the guy you would want replaced on the back end is who, Kipper? Is it Hall or is it Lilligren, Sandin? Who is it? You just want Hall lower down the lineup. Don't you love Hall in your third pair? Yeah, third pairing. Third pairing guy for me. Okay.

It remains to be seen if Sandin and Lilligran will be in the lineup in game one of the playoffs you can hate on that all you like out there for all the the numbers people it's not i'm not sold that they don't think they need to get more stout as some people like to say you know because brody's in riley's in giordano's in yeah hall's in in And you assume they're going to They will bring someone in Yeah they're going to bring someone in They're going to bring somebody in They're not making one move at the deadline

What's that? And it'll reset Justin Hall Put him back Like I said he's played the most minutes of anyone On the Leafs this year He could probably play less than that And that would be good for the team i would imagine okay any thoughts on uh tage lemieux yeah i don't think 30 goals this season for the buffalo sabers jan 4 30 goals wow yeah when buffalo signed that

contract this offseason i thought they're probably like yeah this is you know we got some good value here we're gonna get it we're gonna get a good that's going to be good for us for a long time. I don't think they expected that the guy that's going to lead the league in goals. Connor McDavid, 33 goals. Thompson, 30. Bo Horvat, 28. Alex Ovechkin, 28. Wow.

Robertson, 26. That's your top five. Robertson slowed down. Yes, significantly. Wow. So we've got a decent hockey player in Verana from the Detroit Red Wings on waivers, cleared waivers today.

When things are going well, he looks like a legit 25-goal score, maybe 30-goal score. He was part of that big trade with the Washington Capitals. Mantha. For Mo Mantha. Anthony Mantha. All right, yeah.

Mo. Mo. that's my era no i don't think so no uh a defenseman that played for the philadelphia flyers and it's a great name momenta hell of a hand you don't want less mantha you want no it was momentum that was oh my god that was his name momentaenta, his picture on Hockey TV, his mustache is not straight. I don't think it was a huge surprise that he cleared waivers. He's coming off of NHLPA program, presumably for issues off the ice. That's always something that alongside a $5.2 million contract next season as well, that would scare teams off.

Yes. Tough to feel like your investment is a reliable and safe one when you're not sure. You're not sure and that person's not sure, right? Like I'm sure Verana is trying to figure out where to go and what to be now too. Do you think now, I believe that he's cleared waivers he's in their farm system they would pursue trading him at a discount well yeah that's where it lends towards that every team that if they would have interest and i'm not even sure if there would be again it's a gamble for taking someone his office reputation's not great not great would someone be willing to take a flyer on him if uh steve eiserman was to drop two million

dollars off his deal i wonder if now town or detroit is in the mode of they would need someone more like when is it more now when does detroit want to be good not not uh i i think it's pretty soon stevie eiserman's still in halifax watching yeah uh where is he now is it better to stay where he is to miss the playoffs or does he does he concede that he won't make the playoffs and perhaps jockey for positioning for connor bedard i think they'd have to get they're they're too good now like i don't they're vancouver they're too good to tank and you know what that is their own doing this off season they went and got david perron and ben charotte and you know what? That is their own doing. This offseason, they went and got David Perron and Ben Sherratt. And they got seven new players. Andrew Kopp.

Nobody signed more people in the offseason than they did. Billy Husso. So to do that and then sell off to tank? Tough to see. They're seven points out of playoffs. Here's the problem. They got to clear too many teams. Yeah.

Yeah, they ain't making the playoffs. Okay. God, they should tank. Just look at this. They should tank. Let me go back to Tage Lemieux's team here. And where is Buffalo? Buffalo is good.

But where is Buffalo with making the playoffs? Got a chance. There's six points behind the Islanders with three games in hand and tage and tage on their team here's the big they have tage their goal differential is plus 21 bad teams don't do that halfway through the season they're at least okay and competitive and they can win some games that's stupid it was an eight game losing streak yeah that's just how was that that was stupid i am shouldn't have done that i am the believer they need a goalie i am the believer but was it eight game losing streak? Yeah. That's just. How was that? That was stupid. I am. Shouldn't have done that.

I am the believer. They need a goalie. I am the believer that I'm leaning towards Pat Kane not being traded. Okay. Yeah. But. Yeah. For the biggest reason is he's,

there's a lot more guys that need to chase Stanley Cups than this guy. It doesn't strike me as a guy that wants to play on three different teams in 12 months. Yeah. It doesn't strike me as a guy that wants to leave his family to go sit in a hotel for three months knowing that he can't re-sign with a contending team.

Yeah. But. But. But. signed with a contending team yeah but so but okay here it is could buffalo convince him to come home wouldn't they love that yes it talks a buffalo boy too like bringing the buffalo boys home trade for him now and then sign him for sure like he we're it's you're no rental we're here you we're gonna give you the deal there's no third team we're gonna give you the deal you want and you are retiring a buffalo saber what would you give kane for years though being that he's it looks like he's slowing down he hasn't been very good pretty considerably sorry he hasn't been very good at all

this year tough to look good on a garbage team when there's no incentive to win, right? Like, it's really tough to get a sense for what a guy could do if he flipped a switch. Is it ridiculous for Buffalo to think that they'd need to spend $9 million on him? Oh, my God, yes. That's worse than... You don't think he's signing for $9 million next year with a team?

Oh, my God, no. Okay, what's the number? I don't know, but it's not nine. I mean, I'm not a GM, but I'm off for, like, he's dashed 24 this year. Yeah, it's a bad team, and it's a team that quit on him. He's got 27 points in 37 games on an awful team. Yeah. Oh, he's still good, guys.

Oh, I know, I know. He's still good. But the keeper is 34. Okay, so I'm not saying that you need to sign him to seven years. But I'd give him the Malkin contract. What did Joe Pavelski get? Four times six, whatever. What did Joe Pavelski get?

Didn't he get a couple contracts? Yeah, but not for much money. How old is he? Yeah, 38. Do you want to get three and a half million for a year or something? Like, I don't think he got. I would be buffalo would have more room to give him uh more than malkin got from pittsburgh i think so four by seven yeah yeah listen i maybe nine's not the number maybe seven and a half is but that's the one scenario i could see that might intrigue him.

So Pavelski is 5'5 this year, and next year is a, yeah, 5'5 again. It looks, you know, cap hit is 3.5. I don't know how that works. AV 5'5. Yeah. Anyways. Yeah. That one would make Buffalo a lot more fun.

Oh, it would be awesome. That would be really fun to root for the sabers adding pat kane going on a run pushing down the stretch if you look at teams you know that they would have to catch the islanders they're they're they're flawed penguins are flawed like it's not impossible for them to get home and really what's the what's the harm here like they're not they're too good to bottom out yeah it'd be a lot more lottery balls i think it'd be a lot more fun for their fans to be in a race here going down the stretch as opposed to be tanking at a five percent chance and i think

for developing players you got to get in some hunts right you got to play in some games that matter you want to come to the rink with these guys get in the field for like okay we're going up against the leafs tonight we need these points i we're going up against the Leafs tonight. We need these points. I guess they get up against the Leafs often, but pick a different team. Yeah. You know, we need these points. So I like that. Rangers and the Canes, 11-game heater.

How many times have we heard broadcasters now, and me included, use the term heater? I'm so mad at Jack Hughes. It's so overused right now. I put it on the lineup. I'm banning myself from using it. That's why I said it, because it's in your lineup. Should we? You Ron Burgundy'd it?

You wrote it? You just read it? Real Kipper and Bourne ban. Heater. I like heater. It's in. It's hot right now. It is.

It's on a bit of a heater. Heater's on a heater. Scram beat it. There go there you go um it's another good team in the east the rangers okay what where is this going with uh their first pick overall uh lafreniere that's a great question do you have any answers because i sure don't god i'd be buying low there's people now speculating that vancouver's calling uh their assistant general manager uh was the agent uh for yes yeah so yeah really emily yeah yeah emily was the agent for him but I just, there's not a chance he's getting moved right now. Not a chance.

No? How do you move him? I think you'd trade him pretty easily. You know what situation he's in? You can trade him easily, but you can trade him for a bag of feathers really easily. Yeah, and that's your own fault. No, it's not your own fault.

You don't let him go. You know what this is to me? It's the Jake DeBress situation where the coach and the player seem to have some sort of issue. The player seems to be unhappy. Correct. fault you don't let him go you know what this is to me it's a jake debrest situation where like the coach and the player seem to have some sort of issue the player seems to be unhappy correct underachieving put down the lineup so a little opportunity you know sammy you know you call up vancouver and you say you want lefreniere and they're like yeah he's not good enough to be an everyday player for you right okay let, let's start the negotiation off of that.

So you guys want to trade us your healthy scratch? Okay. Or I think you'd say, if you're the Rangers, be like, yeah, we're having a tough time with our lineup right now. We've got a lot of great guys playing well. He's the first overall pick. Yeah, he's going to be a star. He's going to be a star. Yeah. Think of that conversation can go both ways.

First pick overall is going to be a star. Two first rounders. I'd be taking a chance on him. You cannot trade this guy off of him being a healthy scratch. It's asinine. It's badass at management. Would you trade two firsts for Lafreniere? I'd trade one.

First of all. The Leafs first are like 27th. It's still undetermined what he is. It is. That's the issue. Yes. That's why I like to get in there and say, yeah, we'll take him off your hands. You can buy him low right now.

Yeah, yeah. But the Rangers, that wouldn't be in the best interest of the Rangers right now. You mentioned Jake DeBrusque. Fractured fibula. Really? Yeah. Off of the outdoor game? I don't know. Here's what the Leafs need. Fractured fibula. Really? Yeah. Off of the outdoor game? I don't know.

Here's what the Leafs need. The Bruins to fall apart. Frank Cervelli just said that. No shock given that he didn't accompany the Bruins out west. Jake DeBrusque has a fractured fibula that will keep him out. Tough blow for DeBrusque playing the best hockey of his career. Yeah, that's too bad. That's unfortunate.

They were impressive in the outdoor game. Only because it didn't look very good and then uh back half of the uh the game they just like let's win this just win it i think we'll just win this game they have some experience at flipping that switch and winning all mark 21 one and one who has that record that's nolan ryan uh that's stupid there's only one place for him to go you know that right up continuing to go up forever okay our thanks to anthony stewart jason uh bucala at the world juniors which gets underway in maybe an hour and a half looking forward to that uh pretty fast two hours here yeah we still have we have, we'll just do tomorrow's show off this.

I'm never letting Sammy run a practice, a hockey practice, ever. Ever. Love it. Doesn't like the shootouts. Okay, and thanks to all of you watching, listening, downloading Sportsnet Now, Sportsnet 590, The Fan. We're back again tomorrow. Real Kipper and Bourne.

Have a great night, everybody.