Real Kyper & Bourne - Award Race Review

Episode Date: February 22, 2024

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne start the second hour with NHL Network's Mike Kelly, who runs through award races - Auston Matthews' early case for the Hart Trophy, Quinn Hughes running away with the N...orris and Faber vs. Bedard for the Calder. Then, he discusses which teams are better or worse than their records according to underlying analytics. They regroup with Sam McKee for news and notes - Quinton Byfield's entry for goal of the year, landing spots for Markstrom and Saros, the latest on the Coyotes' search for a new arena and Seattle on the verge of becoming sellers.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Transcript
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Starting point is 00:00:00 we are stretching our boundaries going national on the real kipper and born show we are live on sportsnet sportsnet 650 in vancouver and sportsnet 960 in calgary this hour real kipper and born brought to you by bet 365 nick kiprios justin bourne sammy mckee derrick brandeo pushing all the right buttons for us. And Jen Rolnick, of course, as well. All right, let's bring him in. Hasn't been a while, has it? Mike Kelly, is he ready?
Starting point is 00:00:33 Did they buzz? Oh, he is ready. He was ready like on Tuesday, I think. Mike, how are you, pal? I'm doing good, Kipper. How are you, buddy? We're good. We're good. We're good.
Starting point is 00:00:45 All right, let's get right into it because, I don't know, a couple weeks ago we would have thought for sure a guy like Austin Matthews would have been an afterthought when we're talking about an MVP. Kucherov, McDavid, and McKinnon own this spot now, but is it, is it Austin's now right in the thick of things? Is he, is he ahead now with the thought that he could end up with 70,
Starting point is 00:01:16 75 goals? Where are you on that? So I was going through this today and probably won't shock you guys. I'm a pretty kind of literal thinker here and how I went about my approach on doing the Hart Trophy stuff. But if you look like I look at facts, I look at precedent. And if you look at the last six years, not going back too far, there's really three ways to win the Hart Trophy. You can lead the league in points and that's four of the six. You can score more goals than anybody and a big number and that's
Starting point is 00:01:46 matthews a couple years ago when he did it or you can drag your team kicking and screaming into the playoffs by being so much better than everyone else in your team that you get the award that is given to the player deemed most valuable to his team and that was taylor hall so does matthews check any of these boxes here well he's on pace to? Well, he's on pace to score 77 goals. He's on pace to score 20 more goals than anyone else, which is insane. So will he keep it up? Probably not. But I mean, can he get 70?
Starting point is 00:02:15 Absolutely. He won the Hart Trophy when he scored 60, which was only five more goals than Dreisaitl. And Dreisaitl had five more goals than dry sidle and dry sidle had five more points than him so if matthews gets 70 plus this year and and say it's 10 or more goals than anyone else precedent would say yeah he's got a case to be right in there yeah it's uh the conversation has changed a little bit and i know you're a guy who is also aware of the defensive metrics and he's been a pretty good defensive player this year uh well, has he not? Yeah, 100%.
Starting point is 00:02:47 And I'm sure you guys see it the way that he plays too, right? There are times when he's not as engaged as he could be maybe in his own end, like a lot of guys. But when you look at his impact, I mean, more stick checks that's separating an opponent from the puck with your stick than any forward in the league. And he kills penalties, but not a ton where you might get a little bit more. Just anything you look at.
Starting point is 00:03:09 Puck battles, block shots, he's up there. A lot of that impact coming in the O-Zone as well, but that helps create more offense for his team. So is he deficient defensively? Absolutely not. He is way better than average. And I think you bring up a great point there, Borny, is that to score the way that he does, like, he's not cherry picking. This guy's complete game is crazy.
Starting point is 00:03:32 Yeah, Kip, I want to follow up on Matthews. Do you have anything else on Matthews? Yeah, I do. Okay, go ahead. No, you go ahead. All right, you have a tweet. Follow it up. I was going to ask about tonight,
Starting point is 00:03:39 because he just had a tweet while we were on air about facing Aiden Hill, who is apparently a goaltender tailor-made to stop Austin Matthews. What did you dig up? Yeah, this was very tongue-in-cheek, by the way. But, hey, look, if there's one guy, it's been Aiden Hill. So it's just funny. Like, Matthews, his release is so quick. He's scoring a bunch of one-timer goals,
Starting point is 00:04:04 which has been an evolution in his game over the years. He goes high glove more than anywhere else in the net. Well, Aiden Hill has the best save percentage in the league on quick release shots. He's got the fifth best save percentage on high glove shots. And Matthews has faced him three times. He's got 10 shots, no goals. Two goalies in the NHL.
Starting point is 00:04:22 Matthews has faced three times with 10 shots no goals so yes clearly aiden hill is way too good a goalie for austin matthews so last night on our telecast uh somebody threw a number at maybe you had it on our lineup that uh austin uh scores 20 roughly% of all the Leaf goals. And any idea where that would stand historically? What is the average? I mean, someone mentioned to me maybe the last one close would have been Stamkos at 60 goals for roughly 15%. Like, how crazy is 25% at this point of a season? That is, that's a great point. I don't know off the top of my head and i actually hadn't even thought about it in those terms but a quarter of their
Starting point is 00:05:12 goals for one guy is yeah that really puts it in good perspective um that number might go down if bobby mcmahon keeps scoring the way he does because on a heater if you're shelton you're hoping and praying that it goes down. Yeah, they need some help from somewhere else. So looking around at some of the other trophies, Mike, you had talked about Quinn Hughes earlier in the season. I think last time we had you on, we talked a bit about the Norris Trophy. Do you still think Hughes is the front runner there?
Starting point is 00:05:40 Yeah, I do. Oh, I sense hesitation. No hesitation. I know last time was very definitive about it. I do still think it's his. And there's guys close, like Kael McCarr's, I think, closed the gap. Noah Dobson's in that mix. I don't know, guys. Would you give it to anyone other than Quinn Hughes right now?
Starting point is 00:06:00 I think he's just the numbers he's put up. He's an assist a game on a elite team playing huge minutes. His defensive game is really good. He's scoring goals, kind of doing it all. You know, it's funny when you say that, because we do know that at the trade deadline, there's just a thirst for defense, right? And yet when we talk about a Norris,
Starting point is 00:06:22 I have a funny feeling that we're going to be talking about Hughes and McCarr for the next 10 years. But, you know, who's the next wave? I mean, you mentioned Dobson in the island, but like there is a drop here, Mike. Yeah. Right. Mike yeah right I mean does it's does it say something about the position at all and and and where we're kind of I don't know are we where the where these guys coming from the cars and and Hughes and are there enough of them there there might be I think you're totally right in that it's those two and then a gap right then everybody else but like this isn't
Starting point is 00:07:05 a next wave but i would say also is victor headman deserves some credit for the year he's having he's 50 plus points he's dragging darren radish around on a team that's in the playoffs like he's he's not a great year um and but he's on the downside a little bit here right he's on the dance yeah so the next wave like i think rasmus doleen on a better Buffalo team in a couple years could be in that mix. Miro Heiskanen probably doesn't get enough credit. I wouldn't put him there this year, but in any given year, could he be in that mix? Owen Power, the next headman.
Starting point is 00:07:34 Luke Hughes. Maybe Luke Hughes, maybe Mo Sider. Some of these teams get a little bit better. Yeah, that to me would be kind of the next wave of guys coming. Well, then I'll put a guy in there and kind of take us to the next award conversation brock faber in minnesota is playing i don't know whatever it is 24 minutes and tons of points and has made the calder race interesting where do you stand on if conor bedard you know missing x amount of games will DQ him or ding him enough that Brock Faber could actually get in there?
Starting point is 00:08:07 Well, I'll make the case for Faber. I think what I hope doesn't happen is that some people will have anointed Conor Bedard from the start of the season, and then it's like, he's winning it because he's the best player, and he is the best player. But yeah, he missed
Starting point is 00:08:21 some games, and what Brock Faber's doing, people didn't see that coming. Think about Brock Faber, likeck like again if you want some precedent here think back to when mo cider won the norris or the uh calder trophy sorry um trevor's egress had a great year 0.81 points per game bedard's at 0.9 better but two guys scoring well on teams that weren't great i didn't have a lot to do other than score points and they they did that really well. Mo Sider played in Detroit, quarterbacked the power play in his rookie year, played big minutes, scored 50 points, won the Calder. So there's something there that's close. Faber, what he's doing is even more impressive than what Mo Sider did that year
Starting point is 00:08:58 because he's playing on a Minnesota team that's battling for a playoff spot. He's on their top defense pair. He's quarterbacking their power play he's 25 plus minutes a night that's seventh in the league four minutes a night more than any other rookie and he's on pace to score 48 points so the case is kind of there for it's already happened in a way um you know badar could go bananas and score a ton i just hope that people at the end of it look at them as two individual things and say, Hey, let's look up a dart. Now let's look at favor. Let's look at whatever else.
Starting point is 00:09:28 Cause he, he should be right there. We're talking to Mike Kelly who specializes in analytics with the NHL network and sport logic conversations earlier in the week, talking about what teams should go for, what teams shouldn't, how wide open is it in the east in the west for you and with the exception for me in the east florida panthers i to me everything has to go through them right now barring any injury or boroski get nice cold in the west i i don't know vegas do they get healthy? Are they the favorites?
Starting point is 00:10:05 Does Edmonton need something? Is Vancouver coming down to earth? Where do you see the West? Yeah, I'm with you that Florida, I think, like Florida's my cup favorite at this point, just not only how good they are, but the way they play. And Kipper, like you've been in those battles
Starting point is 00:10:22 and you've been following the game forever as a part of it and you too borny you watch the way florida plays that that to me just screams playoff success right um but brodsky's having a great year then i think it's everyone else in the east in a way like that that's a gap there um boston you can poke some holes in as good as their record is i think you can do that for Toronto, Carolina, the Rangers. The West is, you know, Winnipeg's going through that second half struggle again for the second year in a row, as much as I love what they did at the start. And I think they're a very good team still also. Maybe Dallas doesn't get enough love for being a real legit contender
Starting point is 00:11:00 with the kind of team that they have. Colorado, I'd never bet against. I think Georgiev needs another guy in there that can ease the burden if that guy ends up playing 65 whatever games uh and then has to go do two months of the playoffs that could be a tough ask as well as he's played but um and then i just wouldn't bet against vegas because like stones out week to week right and uh right before the trade deadline. And you hope he gets healthy, but he'll come back and they finally got their D healthy again. Aiden Hill's been great.
Starting point is 00:11:32 God, we could do Florida, Vegas again. Sammy didn't like the sounds of that. So Mike, when you're going through, you know, you have access to a lot of data. You and I communicate on a semi-regular basis being that you're at Sportlogic and I like numbers. What do you use at this point to evaluate a team? What sort of underlying numbers mean something to you
Starting point is 00:11:54 when you're considering this is a team that I take seriously, even though maybe their points aren't there or whatever? Yeah, well, there's some of the usual stuff, right? How big is the gap between your process and your results? That's always kind of the easiest, but also the best way to look at it, right? If there's a team that's process is much better than its results, results should get better, vice versa. And what do you consider process? The chances you generate, what you allow, those kind of things.
Starting point is 00:12:23 And it's confounding for a team like Pittsburgh, whose process is always really good, but just can't score. Yeah. And just can't win the way that you think that they should. But that's gone on long enough now that you can't ignore it. So this is why Florida, to me, like they're rock solid. They're second in goal differential. They are second in expected goal differential.
Starting point is 00:12:43 They're right where they should be, which is is elite you look at a team like Detroit they're I don't know that they can score the way that they they've been scoring and they give up a lot of chances um they could come down you can kind of play that game a little bit and then the other thing I look at with playoffs specifically as you get closer is how do you generate your offense um learned a lesson with florida a couple years ago when they were so good offensively they won the president's trophy they had one trick and man were they good at that trick and when teams took it away when tampa took it away there wasn't a plan b um so multi-faceted team and this is why florida to me is so interesting they have gone completely away from
Starting point is 00:13:25 that they don't score the way that they used to at all but they score in so many other ways now um and i think when you don't when you can't really game plan for like hey take this away from this team it'll really hurt them make them beat us with their b game what if their b their c their d game is also really good uh those are the teams that I tend to, I guess, value more when the playoffs come around. Mike, in the big picture here with 32 teams in the league, have we disappointed fans with playoff races in terms of having too many teams eliminated too early?
Starting point is 00:14:01 It seems like the Ottawa Senators were never in it. Buffalo was never in it. Columbus was was never i can go on and on but is it something that is just a one-off here is it something that the league should look at here or are you fine with it thinking about the nashvilles and the minnesota's still kind of being in it or uh the dev, if they get a goalie, it just seems to me like, man, I'm watching a bit of a snail's pace here with some of these teams that just don't look like they're that interested in making the playoffs some nights. Yeah, it's an interesting question because how much of it is the way that the point structure is set up and how much of it is,
Starting point is 00:14:44 I think wisely we've seen some teams say, hey, forget playoffs. If we don't think we're a cup contender, we're tanking. Not tanking, but we're stripping it bare, right? So now you've got teams. Calgary's going to go that route, I think. For sure. Yep, Chicago went that route. Anaheim's gone that route.
Starting point is 00:15:04 Teams that have just said we're getting rid of everything building it all back up again arizona so you automatically have multiple teams every year that you know don't have a snowball's chance of making the playoffs and then i think too with um you know that was the last year that the east was like wrapped up at christmas time basically maybe it was two years november last Yeah. Yeah. And then this year, even around the same time, I was like, there's one spot left in the East and maybe two in the West. When you just do the math of it, right?
Starting point is 00:15:33 Because the three-point game can keep everybody picking up points, but also it's harder to move up spots in the standings as a result. You think about the tear that when L.A. was still winning and going with Edmonton, Edmonton only made up so much ground in the beginning until L.A. really fell off. It's hard to overcome teams.
Starting point is 00:15:54 So it's not perfect. I'm more of a traditionalist. I kind of like the two points and the one versus eight and a different way of doing it. Maybe it's time to rethink the whole thing. I don't know. I like chaos. Let's come up with something new.
Starting point is 00:16:07 Chaos is good. The, you know, for once we have some chaos in our debates here about the best team in Canada or best chance at a Stanley cup. I don't think many people put the Leafs in that conversation, but certainly Winnipeg, Edmonton and Vancouver all get their due.
Starting point is 00:16:24 Is there one you see as having the strongest odds of the group? I'd have to say Edmonton. Vancouver, for as good as they've been and as good as they are, they could be a team to me that's second-round SIA when you get up against some other teams. Look, I love the Canucks, and they're really good. They've got a great goalie. We know what they are.
Starting point is 00:16:48 I just wonder, again, is some of that offense, if it comes down to earth a little bit in the tighter-checking playoffs, is that going to be a problem? Winnipeg at its best, I maybe like more than anyone else in Canada. The way that they're built and the way that they can play, we're just seeing that inconsistency again. So then you look at Edmonton. They put it together for quite a while now.
Starting point is 00:17:11 They've proved that it's not just a power play to score offensively. They've proved they can get some scoring from guys other than their top two or three. And Skinner, you know, I've kind of always said I think they need another guy there to push him or to help him. All he's done is prove me wrong since he kind of got back on track. So if he's going to play like that, I don't know how it couldn't be Edmonton. And was everyone going to Ottawa at the start of the season?
Starting point is 00:17:35 Oh! What did you say? The start of the season for the Oilers. Oh, yeah. So if you had to pick one team, Mike, to make the biggest splash here, where would you lean? In Canada. In Canada, yeah.
Starting point is 00:17:54 Oh, in Canada. Biggest splash. The biggest go for it. Edmonton? Toronto? I think the biggest go for it probably should be Vancouver, given kind of, again, where they're at. It was a good start.
Starting point is 00:18:14 Right. That's a big piece. It was a great start. Is it Doroff? Yep. You know, whether it's adding, like, another winger or another guy on defense, even for depth, if not a guy that can play every day. But they're ahead of schedule and they've got a pretty good chance to go on a run.
Starting point is 00:18:33 I don't think Winnipeg is the kind of team where a big splash is what they need or what would even necessarily help them. And Toronto, I just you look at other versions of this team. I don't think this is the best one. And I they don't even have a lot of future to mortgage to begin with. Yeah. I don't know. You see where things go, obviously, in the next few weeks. But I'd be reluctant to give up too much for a one shot this year
Starting point is 00:18:57 if I was Toronto. Last one for me, just a team that, you know, outside of playoffs or at least on the cusp that you think has a chance. I'm looking at specifically the New Jersey Devils. You know, the Kings are in a wildcard spot. Like there seems to be a few teams to me that are not way up there but still have chance to win a cup. I wrote the other day about how it seems more than ever
Starting point is 00:19:19 that a Stanley Cup winner could come from an 8 seed, a 7 seed in either conference. Yeah, I like the Devils. a Stanley Cup winner could come from an eight seed, a seven seed in either conference. Yeah. I like the Devils. That'd be my one. There's not a bubble team. Like maybe Minnesota kind of goes on a run. St. Louis, I think you can poke holes in.
Starting point is 00:19:38 Nashville, the same thing. You get to those teams. LA, again, just because we know what they can be. Yeah, they could finish in a wild card. And to your point, Bornyny go on a huge run um but i'd probably go with the devils because like if they get a little healthier and whether they have a goalie step up internally whether it's dawes that can take it run with it or or one of the other guys figures it out uh or they go and get jacob markstrom i mean if they mike sorry to interrupt but to your point if they Mike, sorry to interrupt, but to your point, if they go get Markstrom, are they set up analytically to be one of those teams to come from eight to maybe a
Starting point is 00:20:10 final? Oh, to be a six or lower and have a great shot. Yes, definitely. Like Markstrom's been a top five goalie this year. And one of the things I look at with goalies as well, as much as I can, because it's not perfect, is how does a goalie play and does that fit within the team system and what they allow? I remember having a great conversation with Devin Dubnik about this when he left one team where it did not fit the way that he played at all and it didn't go well. And he went to another that did and he was brilliant.
Starting point is 00:20:40 He's the same guy, just in the right spot. Markstrom, for me me there's no there's nothing about new jersey that would say oh that's going to be a problem so yeah that would be massive for a team that's had big goalie trouble but otherwise pretty pretty legit all right we'll wait and see march 8th trade deadline coming up we'll have you on before then i'm sure mike thanks for doing this pal all right good talking to you guys. Yeah, thanks, Mike. Appreciate it.
Starting point is 00:21:06 All right. NHL Network and SportLogic putting all the numbers together for us. Yeah. My favorite thing to do is to check they have, like, a graph on their page about, you know, like, if you're better goal scoring, you're farther this way. And if you're better defending, you're farther that way. And see where the teams are in the whole thing.
Starting point is 00:21:23 Your Toronto Maplers, pretty good. Pretty good. They're up there. In that quadrant. In the correct quadrant. Yeah, they're in the correct quadrant. Oilers look like the best. Do you go crunch numbers like after every night?
Starting point is 00:21:33 Or would you wait like in the morning? Would you go? Yeah. Every night I'll get a game report from Sportlogic and I'll see where the Leafs were strong or weak or whatever. The other night, who was it that they were so bad in puck battles? We all were like, God, they can't win a puck battle. Philly.
Starting point is 00:21:46 Are you hot and cold on just certain categories or is there one that you always go to first? I always check expected goals, you know, like which is kind of the deserve to win factor. You know, if you heavily, I think the expected goals in the last game against Arizona, you know, the Leafs just absolutely crushed them. It wasn't even close.
Starting point is 00:22:11 And what are you measuring? Shots shot blocks shot so every time someone attempts a shot where is it from is it off a rush is it off a rebound it's all assigned a certain weight so they should have had 4.93 goals against arizona and arizona should have had 1.71 goals so then you could look at and say okay sam, you know, let in more goals than probably should have happened. But still, that's a game where they were playing. You know what I look at, too? It's just Ozone possession time. Who had the puck longer in the other team's end with possession? That tells a bit of a story to me.
Starting point is 00:22:36 I'm always weary of, like, high danger chances. Just who's collecting the data, and is he a moron? Well, now it's a lot of computers. Oh, is it? A lot of like... Okay, that makes me feel better. Yeah, and SportLogic does go back through. So it's all like the algorithm and then they have people go back and vet the information.
Starting point is 00:22:55 Wow. I always envisioned the data collectors like being like the 1972 NHL goal judge. Where like he's a hundred years old and can barely make out his hand. There was years where there was just some guy up top being like, that's a shot. Missed like five rebounds in a row. But there is, I forget who told me this.
Starting point is 00:23:17 Maybe it was you that told me this, Barney. But one junior team had their goalie tracking stuff, the backup goalie. Yeah, that was common forever like tracking you know like oh the clipboard but like shot attempts and shot like you know something different yeah then like shots on goal and having the backup goalie do it i actually like that but there was recently a story about a backup goalie who then said to their coach like i'm not a statistician i'm here to play goal you know the thing he said i didn't love but i know the thing
Starting point is 00:23:45 you said that he said there that about process versus results that and talking about pittsburgh it's like that's what it just makes you not want to do the job anymore well it's like you have the right you're doing the right thing you just the puck will not go over the line at the rate you needed to that's why hockey is incredibly frustrating. But this is where analytics is coming around. Where you don't just go, oh, we're getting unlucky. Duvis teams have looked unlucky. For a long time. A long time now.
Starting point is 00:24:13 The Edmonton Oilers had good numbers when they sucked at the start of the year. Yes, they did. But I mean, but that was validated, right? They came around. My whole point, yes. They based it on this will turn. Now, still fired your coach. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:24:33 Yeah, they didn't look. Daryl Cates doesn't look at the underlying numbers. They saw the numbers and they said, this will turn for us. Yeah. The three best teams in terms of expected goals this year are the Oilers, the Leafs, and the Penguins, which make of that what you will. Oilers.
Starting point is 00:24:49 Florida's right there. Oilers, Leafs, Penguins for expected goals. Yeah, then Panthers. My favorite joke is, who's expecting them? I know. That's my favorite joke. That's a good one. Anyway.
Starting point is 00:24:59 It's not very good. The power play, though. What is that? Listening through Dubas' press conference yesterday, there was like three separate questions about the power play. It's like a... Yeah, yeah, we're working on it. You go and get
Starting point is 00:25:13 a 100-point defenseman. We're not doing this again today. No, but what we should do is that... Hey, hey, hey. Sammy, thank you for saving me there. Elliott did right in 32 thoughts. Could Eric Carlson and Ottawa be a, could there be a reunion between Carlson and Ottawa?
Starting point is 00:25:34 There was already one firing of a general manager in Ottawa. You want two? But like Elliot doesn't just say things like that. It was the number two point. It was 32 or 26 thoughts or whatever. It was the second point is could there be something there? What's 26 thoughts? He doesn't do 32 all the time anymore.
Starting point is 00:25:54 He's a busy man. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. I thought we got rid of 18. Anyways. Do you guys want to do game time? Badly.
Starting point is 00:26:02 Even if we said no, you'd still do it. So why do you ask? Because I was making sure there was nothing else you wanted to get to before I read game time. You're so nice. You know, people have said that about me in my life. A lot of other bad things, but generally nice. It's game time.
Starting point is 00:26:19 Presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary. Bet365. Must be 19+. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Bet365, visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary. Bet365, must be 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Now, Kipper,
Starting point is 00:26:33 Bet365 is sort of feeling a similar way to you about the Leafs in Vegas tonight. The Leafs are a favorite tonight in Vegas. On the second half of a back-to-back. No stone. Yeah, is that stone and no Eichel? Yeah, buddy. Martin, Jones, and Nett, second half of a back-to-back.
Starting point is 00:26:45 Are you sure they're a favorite? They are. They're minus 115, favorite. Wow. Vegas is minus 105, so it's pretty close. Like, pretty close to even money here on both sides, but minus 115 for the Leafs in Vegas tonight. So, kind of a little bit of credence to your feeling.
Starting point is 00:26:57 Yep. Maybe you're wearing that suit today. Maybe you set the lines there. Looky. I like it. What's the guy in Casino? Marty Mush? No. What's the guy in Casino? Marty Mush? No.
Starting point is 00:27:06 What are you looking for? The character that Robert De Niro plays. I can't think of it off the top of my head. Here's what I think of that game. Martin Jones in that back-to-back for the Leafs. Everyone thinks Riley's back and going to eat the minutes. They're going to give up some goals. Vegas is missing.
Starting point is 00:27:20 Great defensive player in stone. I just think goals. I just think bet the over. Okay. Like that. The number on the over is minus 115 so so they think it's got a good chance of going over as well so if you like a side in that maybe you could pair it with the over and have a little bit of fun watching that one um battle of two teams scrapping for their playoff lives tonight in st louis new york islanders in st louis to take on the blues didn't love what i saw from
Starting point is 00:27:45 the blues the last two times elise played them but i haven't loved what i've seen so give me a shot on the uh underdog at home the home dog the st louis blues at plus 105 and i'm just pulling this up now because i saw the washington capitals ovi's hot boys so ovi's hot eight and eight and i just if you're gonna if you're gonna be upset like me for him scoring you might as well be financially uh imbursed for it they're back they're back to thinking he's ovi he's a plus 125 to score a goal tonight against the tampa bay lightning so give me an OV goal tonight so I can win some money and not be as sour about him catching Wayne Gretzky.
Starting point is 00:28:28 Cool, cool, cool. Where do we have him? Sorry, SportsBeard. I know you don't like that very much. Where do we have Washington? Are they going to try to ride OV into a playoff spot? I'll tell you, I think they stink. I don't think there's no stink about it.
Starting point is 00:28:43 I don't think they're my guy. I just not. I think they're the I don't think there's no stink about it. I know SportsBeard's my guy. I just not. I think they're the slowest team in the league. They look, you know, they have great names, formerly great names that are slowing down a little bit. And they, like Pittsburgh, probably need to get younger. Yep. That was Game Time presented by Bet365.
Starting point is 00:29:00 Visit the app for latest odds. Find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. All right. visit the app for latest odds find out why it's never ordinary at bet 365 must be 19 plus ontario only please play responsibly all right uh 11 games on tap including that uh washington capital game against tampa bay uh anything else are we good take a quick break let's hit news and notes on the other side pal oh boy all right i don't want to get into a little bit more on arizona and what we saw last night oh boy oh boy oh boy is right that more when we return on real kipper and born
Starting point is 00:29:34 hey it's ben ennis and i'm brent cunning we got you covered on all things leafs rafters and blue jays every weekday morning six to nine it's the fan Show. Sportsnet 590 The Fan and wherever you get your podcasts. Nick Caprios, Sammy McKee, and my good buddy, JB. How nice was Quentin Byfield's goal the other night against Columbus? Because it's been a slow development. It was a development for this guy through a pandemic. They got a chance to put him in the American Hockey League a little bit through it. They've waited a long time.
Starting point is 00:30:22 And then you watch this goal the other night end to end off of a defensive zone face-off that you went okay the man has arrived it's wild like the resistance to highly touted players going to the american hockey league right like how much everyone's like oh he's you know it's deemed a failure or whatever whatever it is that people look at it it's not a positive he goes he plays well now he's 21 years old six foot five 216 pounds i mean he's always got 42 points in 52 games scores goals like that and you got a star for a decade now it's amazing more guys aren't asked to do that. Second pick overall.
Starting point is 00:31:06 Yeah. 2020. Before Stutzler, right? It was, who was the first pick in that draft? Lafreniere. Thank you. And then it was him and then Stutzler. Lafreniere.
Starting point is 00:31:15 I'm looking at, and they're coming around a bit too. The Kings have won four in a row now. They're looking a little bit more solid. Six out of seven maybe. But that, that goal, you goal, there's certain ones you watch where you're going to be like, I'll remember that one in five years. That one will be on an all-decade list for goals.
Starting point is 00:31:35 I'm not sure it's the best one ever. It's all in the eye of the beholder, but it's a beautiful, beautiful goal. It's not as flashy still. It seems at times, even on that rush and if you haven't seen it just just google it um it seems at times like he's almost off balance and he's not off balance but it's not lanky it's lanky great players sometimes you think it's bambi on ice when the legs could split at any second, but then he just puts it all together.
Starting point is 00:32:05 Some of those guys, I remember Mark Scheifele when he was a young player and Huberto and, you know, I understand. They became different type players, but that lankiness to me when a guy is still valuable with all those limbs, they're the guys who become Zidane O'Chara or, you know, the guys who figure it out. He's in a good spot on pace for 30 goals, 28 actually. As we said, 11 games on tap, including Nashville.
Starting point is 00:32:29 Just watched it again. So nice. Nashville at LA tonight. You mean Barry Nashville yet or what? This is a big game. I don't know. I'm not ready to. Are you ready to write off Nashville?
Starting point is 00:32:43 Sure am. Are you ready to trade everybody? Yep. I am ready. What do you think about Saros? Is that going to happen at some point? Well, they've got the Russian number one goalie there, Ericov or Askarov.
Starting point is 00:32:56 Askarov. And their American League team, with him on it, has won 18 games in a row. And he has been unbelievable for their minor league team. him on it has won 18 games in a row and he has been unbelievable for their minor league team and he's ready you know i think now's the time well i mean to go back to your conversation about letting guys play well in the american league i mean he's obviously had a couple good years there maybe they just picture him as a next year they'll call him up and he'll be the backup to sorrows and they'll kind of do it that way or you just throw his feet to the fire and you put him right in
Starting point is 00:33:29 there well the thing about that though is like where are they in the standings right like any games he comes into play for national after the deadline are probably not hyper competitive games i understand they're not you know far out of it they're kind of on the on the playoff cut they are tied with the st louis blues at 60 points for the second wild card spot you know to far out of it. They're kind of on the playoff cusp. They are tied with the St. Louis Blues at 60 points for the second wildcard spot. You know, to me, it's the time where you can trade Soros, you can put this guy in, give him that exposure. He's played these American League games now.
Starting point is 00:33:54 It's interesting that both Soros and Markstrom have, like, a big-name goalie behind them waiting. That, to me, makes me believe that we'll see both those guys move. So who flinches here the devils or the kings on a goalie i think the devils are definitely going to do something it's just the longer they wait it's like it's getting away from them a little bit they they still are on the outside looking in right i don't know what's taking them so long i yeah but they're them to me are they are a very
Starting point is 00:34:26 scary team if they get markstrom yeah because it's immediately the team they were last year with one of the best goalies in the league right like that that changes things in the eastern conference playoff picture to me yeah you look at all the talent there i mean the top line is palat he's here brat then you got hughes and holla to foley timo myers on the third line like there's a ton of talent luke hughes nemich they're they're good before i went to break you mentioned something that you wanted to bring up but yeah listen we we had bill armstrong the general manager of arizona on our show yesterday and you know he's he was great too by the way i really enjoyed him he's doing everything that he's supposed to do as a general manager and speak well of the future.
Starting point is 00:35:06 I'm waiting for the but. Yeah, here's the but. The but is we did the game last night against Arizona and Toronto. And I spent the majority of the game like, what am I watching here? It was just a horrible feeling. It was a horrible look. The shadows on the ice. The sounds, it sounded awful.
Starting point is 00:35:33 It's like, what are we watching here? This is not NHL standards. Players are growing frustrated. Even the game, listen, Leafs, take the two points. That game last night did nothing to help the Leafs prepare for the Stanley Cup playoffs. It was just a filler game. Almost like, just get your goals, Austin. Get a couple of goals.
Starting point is 00:35:58 Keep it going and just get the heck out of there. But that's just not right. You know what it was like? It was like watching one of those pre-season those september craftville games it's like they're playing in like finland as like a pre-season series or like in orono arena at the community center watching it like you you gotta shut that down it's embarrassing it's been embarrassing kip i you know we just don't talk about them because they haven't been relevant, but it is humiliating as an NHL fan that we have a team in a college team's rink.
Starting point is 00:36:33 The fact that it's the second season of it is crazy. Like, even if it's the first year and it's like, we're doing this for one year and we're figuring it out, we're moving somewhere else, this is just a temporary thing the fact that like no no another year is unbelievably embarrassing we don't want to come on here and be negative every day so there's no point in talking about it all the time but make no mistake that's embarrassing it has to end after this year next year they can't do it again they just can't and i do believe it could still work there you just got to get in arizona yeah the right owner but they can't build a rink by you don still work there. You just got to get the right owner.
Starting point is 00:37:05 But they can't build a rink by September. You don't have to build a rink. You just move the team in with the NBA team, the Phoenix Suns. You share that building. I think that's functional in the intro. Yeah. You share the building with them. You get your 15, 16, 17,000 people.
Starting point is 00:37:23 And you build one as early as next year. You start the process with a solid ownership group that the fans there can trust. I don't think it sounds like it's their present owner right now. So do you think the team's actively for sale right now? I don't know what's going on behind the scenes. I have no idea. And I'm not sure they definitively know yet.
Starting point is 00:37:50 But there has to be some hard decisions coming up in a few weeks. You know, Elliot, I talked about 32 Thoughts, has all those long thoughts. If I'm not mistaken, yeah, thought 22 at the bottom. A couple weeks ago, Coyote's owner, Alex Marulo, said he'd address his staff about the future. It hasn't happened yet. Sounds like me.
Starting point is 00:38:15 Sounds like a guy, Marulo, being like, yeah, I'll get back to you. Yeah, I'll pay that parking ticket next week. He's trying to figure something out here. Yeah, he's trying to figure it out. And I think the league still, and we know how stubborn Gary can be, and I don't know, we've had examples where everybody's told him to bail on Ottawa and Edmonton and Winnipeg, and somehow he's found a way to keep them there or go back to there.
Starting point is 00:38:45 You know, I know nothing. I have no contacts, but I bet the idea that Marula would sell the team back to the league or give the team back to the league and they give them whatever it's roughly worth, and then they get to sell it for much more to an ownership group that wants to build a rink and do the darn thing. I will say, though, you know, if you're a Leaf fan, last night rocked. You know?
Starting point is 00:39:11 Was there any Coyotes fans there? No, but, like, you're in Scottsdale, first of all. We've well documented our love for Scottsdale. Yeah. You get to go to that arena. You see, like I said last night on Leafs Talk, you're seeing Kanye West at Lee's Palace. Like, it's an NHL game in a junior barn like it's unbelievable and then you get to pour out into downtown scottsdale after you watch your team win against a crappy team it's a great night for a fan for a
Starting point is 00:39:33 traveling snowbird fan but every night for a nhl team it's embarrassing logan cooley had his just got stuffed in a locker by oh my lilligran he the second one he hit hard that's nye's context by the way right like it was him and cooley on a line with snuggerood in minnesota and like you know watching cooley everyone's like you guys see this kid skate he can't skate past lilligren well he had the dash later in the game where he cut around benoit and benoit actually made a good play to recover good angle but like the burst you're like whoa he has got it i know it hasn't shown in the last 12 games uh but like there are they're like the auto us editors of of the west yeah but you could sell hope with a lot of these guys chelly's good and i'm sure gary will
Starting point is 00:40:19 be selling hope when he bumps the price up a bunch to the guy from salt lake yeah look at all this hope colorado apparently uh gonna be sort of going through Arizona's roster and looking at Bustad and, you know, perhaps an Alex Kerfoot reunion. One of the teams looking for someone off their rosters. I heard Hendricks. Huh? Colorado. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:40:41 Lots of interest in Adam Henrik out of Anaheim. That would make them significantly better. But he'd be like no different than Monaghan. That would be, let's start with a first rounder and add. Really? Adam Henrik first rounder. I'm just, hey, listen. Monaghan.
Starting point is 00:41:03 I just didn't. And Lindholm, believe it or not. Yeah, but they're not in the same. No, they're not. But actually, their numbers are probably closer than you think. This year, maybe. It's funny. I've watched a lot of Canucks since they got Lindholm.
Starting point is 00:41:17 I love watching the Canucks. One of my favorite teams to watch. I'm not just saying that to pander to the Vancouver audience. Tons of skill. They're a really fun team to watch. Have they won since? Yeah. Since he's been there? Yeah. Tons of skill. They're a really fun team to watch. Have they won since? Yeah. Since he's been there?
Starting point is 00:41:27 Yeah. Of course. How many games? I don't know, but they won their first game against Carolina. All right. Maybe they won. No, they've won a couple since he was there. Okay.
Starting point is 00:41:36 But it feels like he's been on the team forever. Like, it just feels like he's a Canuck. I don't know. He looks good in the jersey. He looks like he belongs there. He's playing with the fellow Swedes. I don't know. It just feels like he's going to be there for the rest of his career. I don't know why. Maybe not,. He looks like he belongs there. He's playing with the fellow Swedes. I don't know. It feels like he's going to be there for the rest of his career.
Starting point is 00:41:46 I don't know why. Maybe not, but just looks like he belongs. Yeah, I can see it. Are they back at it tonight? Oh, they've got Seattle. Yeah. Shouldn't this be a good rivalry? Well, Seattle has not.
Starting point is 00:42:00 Seattle's bailing, too. You think they're going to sell? Bailing? Yeah. Yeah, they'll get rid of a few pieces. Yanni Gord to the Leafs? No, but Eberle probably will get moved and maybe a defenseman. Alex Wenberg?
Starting point is 00:42:17 Is he UFA? I think so. Yeah. Yeah, I can see that. So their back end is Dunn, Larson, Oleak borgen dumoulin justin schultz so yeah seattle's everyone loved the patient way that they played it out of the expansion draft you just look at how hard vegas had to work to get elite players i still would have loved to see them have something on this roster you know they have a lot of assets right we say they didn't
Starting point is 00:42:43 treat themselves no they didn't treat themselves at all or you know duchesne or just something yeah a treat when we think of a guy like jimmy rutherford who can pull a trigger rather quickly or what vegas has done with kelly mccrimmon and george m McPhee and how they pull triggers. Ronnie Francis is almost like the opposite where it's just like, go take a look at his history of trading or bringing in guys. It's slow and steady.
Starting point is 00:43:19 That's a good way to stay employed though, isn't it? If you're just, oh, I'm conservative, I'm mature, I'm cautious, you know? The answer is yes. Yes. It's a great way to say isn't that wasn't that the the rep on shovel day off forever and i used to call him kevin shovel summer off never do anything and he has been how hasn't he been employed for 100 years yes he's been there forever so it's like there's something to that for sure and it's slowly kind of built to them david poyle yeah no no more yeah more years 30 plus no since they well no since they came in none of the guys we just mentioned have won a cup
Starting point is 00:43:53 doing it but yeah he pulled a few big trades what about the years but still just five trades enough to keep people uh believing that you're you're that close to winning a stanley cup go get me jack eichel go get me i was petrangelo and then when those moves fail you get fired and when they succeed you win cups so it's like a risk reward where is uh oh can i ask you a question about seattle and i guess maybe i'm you answer my own question because of the conservativeness of uh ron francis but would they ever listen on Alexiak? I don't think so, but... They should. Make an offer you can't refuse,
Starting point is 00:44:31 but I don't think that they're interested in moving him or Larson. Is it Larson? Yeah. And Vince Dunn's there. Alexiak's on. Justin Schultz. You want Justin Schultz?
Starting point is 00:44:43 No, I want Alexiak. What did you think of last night's Oilers Bruins game? Yeah. Uh, it was fun. Stanley cup preview for one down for one. So a good on him for making a game of it. But,
Starting point is 00:44:58 uh, yeah, a little sloppy on their part, I guess. Corey Perry shoots another one in the net. Big fight. Yeah. The, the fight was interesting. I don't know if you saw how it developed, but it wasn't like a, do you want to go thing? little sloppy on their part i guess cory parry shoots another one in the net big fight yeah the fight was interesting i don't know if you saw how it developed but it wasn't like uh do you want to
Starting point is 00:45:09 go thing it was like the guys said something to him that upset him yeah and they fought yeah and he held his own sure i just you want to guess on what he said yeah let's speculate let's see how this goes i got a few ideas we got four minutes left in the show. Let's just stay employed. All right. Okay. Swayman being bad would worry me for the Bruins. Not that he's a bad goalie, but they need their goaltending to be Jennings trophy good
Starting point is 00:45:37 because the rest of the team is very okay. And the feeling was that they were spectacular when the team was kind of okay yeah for a good portion of the first half of the season yes oh they they won them okay here's one that i had no idea about the panthers seek their 12th road win against the hurricanes which would tie an nhl record like it was this completely under the radar or am I just an idiot? No, this is one of those. So, sorry, is it just 12th road win in a row right now?
Starting point is 00:46:10 That's what we're talking about? Yeah. A road winning streak. I gotta tell you guys, I don't love stuff like this. I know you don't. Yeah. You know, like baseball and they're like, this guy against lefties in, you know,
Starting point is 00:46:22 in parks that face southwest in the afternoon. Outside of no sizzle on I don't care about a stupid record. It's impressive, though. Yeah, it's great. They win all the time. They're great. It doesn't matter if they're home or away. Yes.
Starting point is 00:46:39 They come in there. They beat the crappity. They score more goals than you need to leave. They are very, very good doing the hockey. Carolina, though, is coming around around so they got their hands full did you guys take a look at how many ufas are on florida oh yeah next year oh oh take a look like half yeah half the team they got to re-sign half the team all of arizona's d-man are up i did hear though that there's not a huge concern on sam reinhardt resigning yeah
Starting point is 00:47:07 he'll sign for 10 bucks a year he's it's gonna be under 10 he's never scored 40 for this year yeah so let's play will they be a panther next year yeah uh brennan montour yes gustav Forsling. Yes. Yes. Oliver Ekman-Larsen. That number will have to come way down. Dmitry Kulikov. No. Okay. Forward addition. Nick Cousins.
Starting point is 00:47:38 Yes. Steven Lorenz. No thoughts on that. Yeah, all their guys that are down here. All the guys that are matter are still're all the all the guys that are matter are still under contract for a long time so you got my excited you got me excited for no reason lundell is an rfa you know who might not be back there next year uh aaron eckbud what well he's got another year on his deal yeah but it uh it goes from a no move to 10 teams oh so
Starting point is 00:48:07 i could see him moving i could see them deciding to move off of his 7.5 million currently and then hand it over to montour because reinhardt's going to need another 3 million per season montour is making three five we have going to be we have3 million per season. Montour's making $3.5 million. What do you have Sam Reinhardt at? Six and a half, 9.75. I don't even think it needs to go that high. No? What? God, if he played for the Leafs, can you imagine the number?
Starting point is 00:48:34 Kipper would be like, he's an 80-million-year. I think you can get him for eight and a half. What are you talking about? Eight and a half? Eight and a half, nine. Well, there's no tax there, so they get the... Thank you. It's like 11 anywhere else. No way. And, 9. Well, there's no tax there. Thank you. It's like 11 anywhere else.
Starting point is 00:48:48 No way. He's not getting 11 anywhere else, and he'll get the eighth year for 8, 8.25. It's still incredible money. Yeah, it is. And also, do you believe that a 29 Sam Reinhardt is going to go on some Jose Bautista run in his 30s? I don't. Oh, then do what Vegas
Starting point is 00:49:08 does with Mark Stone. Just put him on LTR. Every late Fab he gets hurt. Alright. Okay. 11 games on tap tonight. Pick your favorite one. Staying awake for the least game tonight, Kippy, or what? Yeah,
Starting point is 00:49:24 I don't know. Yeah, of course I am. I'm staying up for all of it. Derek England. Third period has morning viewing written all over it. Former captain of Vegas. Thank you for joining us. And Mike Kelly from the NHL Network and SportLogic. If you get a chance, give us a rating and review.
Starting point is 00:49:41 Let us know what you think of the Real Kipper Endborn Show. Have fun, everybody, tonight. We'll see you on Off the Rails Friday tomorrow.

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