Real Kyper & Bourne - Baking and Serving Up Some Fake Leafs Trades

Episode Date: February 8, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee kick things off by making the comparison between the NBA (and the impending trade deadline) and the NHL. Plus, were people 'not in the moment' when LeBron James broke the NBA's all-time scoring record, and would the same thing happen if Alex Ovechkin breaks Wayne Gretzky's all-time goals scored record in the NHL? Later, Sportlogiq's Mike Kelly drops by to chat NHL awards, including where guys like Erik Karlsson, Owen Power and Linus Ullmark fall in the rankings (41:19). Plus, Sportsnet's Jason Bukala discusses the current Leafs prospects, including whether or not Matthew Knies could make a difference soon enough, and which other prospects have any value when it comes to trades (64:51). To wrap up, Sam delivers some fake Leafs trades to be evaluated. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Right back at ya. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Derek Brandeo, Jen Rolnick, Sammy McKee. I gotta tell ya, about, I don't know, 30 seconds, 40 seconds ago, Sammy McKee said, remember, we're not on the air tomorrow. And I'm like, yeah. No, you don't mean that. You'll miss us.

And then I'm like, oh, but we're disappointed for all of you at home or watching or downloading because, you know, you don't get our sparkling personalities for one day. No. But who do we have to blame for that? The NBA? Yes. Trade deadline.

Pascal Siakam, OG Ananobi. Who's going to be around? Anyone? Are they all going, Sammy? I don't know. I have a lot. I mean, how much time you have on the Raptors? I've had a lot of feelings about them.

I have two hours. We just had a full hour of Raptors talk before us. But I am worried that they are going to do much less than people. I think the front office has a lot of belief in this group. And they've had a down year. And it hasn't been pretty. But I do think that they think they're good. I don't think they're that good.

So I have a feeling that there may be less than people are expecting. Would be my prediction hey do we have um like is is there been a pendulum swing here with i don't know baseball and uh basketball taking over trade deadlines do they have more stuff than we got going these days does it feel like that they don't have the salary cap issues they can just trade people willy-nilly that's not true is it yes in the nba you have to match salaries there's a luxury cap you can go over a certain amount and you have to match salaries or whatever like it's similar but here's here's the difference between the nhl and the nba is they don't give a crap and they just swing for

the fences a lot of time like if you have if you have you're the Lakers, you have LeBron James, we'll talk about him breaking the record last night, all-time points record, and you have LeBron James on your team, you have three, two, three years here left where you have one of the greatest players of all time. You've got to kind of try to surround him with the right guys. You've got to say, screw the future. And I think a lot of hockey teams are pretty,

when's the last time you see three or four first round picks in a trade like never well also though in the nhl kip can you trade picks that far out like they they trade offer the 2029 first i don't in the kairi trade i don't think yeah i've never really asked to be honest with you but why couldn't you is there no limit on that just i'll give you the 2040 draft picks i do remember a couple times at hartford we were we traded a pick like two or three years away and we used to joke that he's like you know in the maternity ward you know getting you know he still hasn't left the hospital you know right that's about right that's like in you know, getting, you know, he still hasn't left the hospital, you know? Right. That's about right. That's like in, you know, this past OHL and CHL trade deadline,

there was like picks that were getting traded where the guys were playing peewee hockey. That would be drafted. Like that joke actually rings true in the CHL. There are so many picks getting traded. Anyways. Now, do no trade or no move clause as prominent in those leagues? Did you ever hear of that? One point Derek made is there's only two rounds of the NBA draft. So if you don't have a first or your first, your second, you can't trade a third, a fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh. So it makes sense to trade the 2029 version. Would we ever hear of somebody at the last minute still deciding on whether to lift their no trade clause?

I don't know if I've heard that. There's something called bird rights. And I think that's for signing someone. If you want to sign them over your luxury tax, it won't count against them. You've got their bird rights. That's what that's for. Okay. So I don't know.

I don't know about the NBA ins and outs. To be honest, I don't really know about the NHL ins and outs when it comes to trades. And having said all that, later in the show, I've been cooking up a few unbelievable fake Leafs trades that I can't wait to combine. Oh my gosh. Fake Leafs trades. You're baking fake Leafs trades. I am.

I'm baking them like those cookies. Like Aunt Beth's cookies. Oh yeah. My. Like Aunt Beth's cookies. Oh, yeah. My goodness, Aunt Beth. I don't know who Aunt Beth is, but I love her. I really do. She sent us cookies. Numerous.

A lot of cookies. We don't have a sponsor for the show. It's currently Aunt Beth. Oh, it is Aunt Beth. It is. The boys love the cookies then she baked some booze free ones for me which i appreciated how thoughtful is that i know there's a valentine's day hard cookie but just a message to all those companies out there we can be bought you know feel free oh yeah and golf companies if you want to send me clubs or send me you have

any side to a golf course as the official snack guru of the show, I can send out my email. Not a problem, anybody out there. Thanks, Derek. Are you guys done? We're for hire. It's embarrassing. We're for hire. Especially tailor-made.

I'm embarrassed for you right now. No, you're not. You appreciate we're doing it for you. I'm going to print shirts for us next week. What are you talking about? Okay. Last night. Sammy?

Did you want to quickly talk about, you know, there's a parallel here with LeBron James passing what everyone thought was a completely unpassable record with what we're staring at here with Ovi. Like, there's a very similar parallel that every, no one ever would have thought that Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's all-time scoring record would ever been sniffed by anybody and lebron passed it it was 40 years it was one of the greatest players in the history of the game and then was there any doubt last night uh i left tim and friends show the last question they asked me is if lebron was gonna do it yeah and it's just with these type of guys very seldom in their careers do they

miss opportunities to to shine when you're expected to that's what made them so great and i'll include like a guy like sydney crosby scoring the game-winning goal in Vancouver in 2010. Matthew's first game. They just, these guys just find a way to stay calm and, you know, perform when the eyes are on you. And LeBron did it. But also, in the NBA, I think it speaks to the difference in hockey and basketball, where in basketball, like, okay, it's Kobe's last game. Everyone's going to get him the ball.

He's going to shoot it a thousand times. He gets 60 points in his last ever game. Like, you're able to, in basketball, control the circumstances a bit to get the ball in the hands of someone. Like, you know, as Sammy was saying, like, what's the hockey equivalent of 36 points? It's probably two goals. And if Crosby needs two goals tonight,

it's really hard to shape the game in a way that gets the puck to Sid unless it just sort of happens. Absolutely. So it's just a different sport, and that's why there's more, why in the NHL you need deeper teams because you can't get the puck to your best guy. Yeah, that's fair, for sure. Game six of the playoffs, you might need Max Talbot to score game seven.

It's actually a very good sort of parallel to draw with the Leafs is that you can't always put it on the top guys. And you need somebody in the bottom six that's going to step up with a goal. And they haven't in years past. Hitch yesterday said, you know how it is. The top two lines kind of cancel each other out. And then what else do you have? Show me your next card were you were you guys okay with uh the moment it happened the presentation the flooded of cameras and people and right away all every camera went up and

i know there you guys had a little bit of a conversation there. An argument. My first thought, again, is that nobody can absorb a moment anywhere in the world anymore without thinking about recording it or having something for your future. And it's like you almost lose something in that moment yeah if you're too busy you're looking through a small screen instead of at the event so sammy go ahead say your piece well i thought it was that that photo of every single person i did a tweet about it how i thought it was it just was pretty dark to me like just in terms of how many people actually just had their cameras out and no one was just watching it. But at the same time, I think if anybody in this room,

including you, Kipper, including you, Borny, LeBron James is one basket away from the all-time scoring record. Both of you guys have your phones out too. And I said to you before the show, not a chance. There is no chance I would have my phone out. Probably out of habit would say, I want to grab this moment and have it in my phone, I guess. I am a conscious advocate. The Leafs are in a playoff series and I'm at the game and it goes to overtime

and Willie Nylander gets hauled down on a breakaway. He's got a penalty shot. Probably going to pull out my phone. See, I don't get that because that moment is visible everywhere. It's going to be recordable. You can pull it up on YouTube. Everyone has that video. I think it's more habit-based, you could pull it up on youtube everyone has that video it's more habit based like kipper said than anything i think it's just you know what you know what's

hard for me sammy is two things something like you got a sunset or my kids are doing something really you know cute that i want to remember and it's like sunset but those but those things change and go away and other people aren't there so i I get the urge to be like, I'm going to capture this. Or like, I'll never remember this. Not a sporting event. You're there. Like you're standing beside Tiger Woods. First time in your life.

You're on the rope. You get to watch them swing and you're like looking through your phone. It's the worst view of anyone. I'm at home. I got a better view. Yeah, you're right. You're right. There's nothing to argue.

You're absolutely right. I want to go here, stand six feet away from this, and look into a little tiny monitor. He's right there. Watch Tiger. I think... So you should hire somebody to do it for you. That's the money man over here.

Right? I'm going to enjoy it. You can pay me to come with you to those events, and I'll film it all. I mean, not to get too into non-hockey stuff, but this is why everybody says the Masters is so special, right? Because you go there and the phones aren't allowed on site. You have to hand in your phone when you go in. How does that work?

I don't know. Concerts too. No, but concerts are the worst offenders of this. I went to concerts. People with iPads watching the whole thing. No, no, no, no. If you're doing it, you're doing it illegally. There's some concerts that ask you to check your phone in

and pick it up on the way out. As it should be. But I just, they, people always talk about the magic of the masters and it's because, you know what the hell the magic is? Everyone's just watching and talking to each other like people used to do. Right? Like, I mean, how many times, not to get too deep,

you're sitting on your couch with your wife and you guys are both sitting there looking at instagram not saying anything to each other well and i will say you know i went sledding with my kid this weekend left my phone in the car and it's the best time we had in a long time because you're i'm just i'm not checking up on anything you know yeah anyways i've got a little deeper than i was here were you uh pleased the presentation either the Lakers, LeBron, or the NBA had to stop the game and let it breathe and the speeches? Yeah. I kind of thought that LeBron kind of left Abdul-Jabbar a little bit too long.

To me, honestly, I break the record. He's the first guy. And with all due respect to my family and my friends he is the first guy i seek out yeah 100 i agree and i i don't know i didn't see that yeah it was like uh it was also by the way the record guy it was oh yeah yeah come on over it was also what in the fourth quarter of a game they lost by three at a point in the season. They need a win. That's a team that's directly ahead of them that they need to beat. Yeah. It's not good.

And then there's a report this morning that Russell Westbrook and the coach got into a yelling match. Just the NBA. Boys, can we just, like, imagine we covered the NBA for it. We should be the Raptors show sequel and just talk NBA. Imagine, yeah, if we had Keith and Matthews got into it during the game the conversation yeah anyways i uh i thought it was good that they stopped the game they got it all out of the way like it's a massive moment in the history of the game i feel like it needed to be acknowledged the way it was and you don't think that's going to happen when ovi breaks the wayne's record you don't think the game's going to stop and it's

going to be pomp and circumstance it's going to be very and circumstance. It's going to be a very similar situation. Yeah, for sure. Maybe not a speech. Absolutely. And I think judging by what we saw at the NHL All-Star Weekend, you know, they're probably a little bit more comfortable than they were, you know, months ago. With Ovi. Yeah, with Ovi. They keep floating these trial balloons out and, oh, everyone's okay with that?

Is that what you thought maybe that this weekend or last weekend was about as well? I don't know if it was about that but i definitely think they would have seen the lack of pushback and gone okay all right there's some you know we might be able to push over here a little bit absolutely all right all right uh what less than a little over 30 minutes we got mike kelly coming on. We'll talk to him. Of course, he does great work with the NHL Network and SportLogic. We'll talk about midseason awards. Or is he giving out awards?

Are we? What's the deal? He did just a tweet that was a good, just talking about the people that are going to get the awards this year in his eyes. And it was a good conversation starter. So I put in the lineup for you. All right. And Timo Meier, his potential impact on a team acquiring him. And in the second hour, who do we got?

Jason Bukala. Bukala. Former director in amateur scouting for the Florida Panthers. We've had him on before. I love his work. Yeah, really thorough work. Yeah, really thorough. And certainly looking forward to hear what he has to say about basically,

what are we, almost three weeks out of a trade deadline. Yep, we are. And you know what the chat wants us to talk about? Chikrin. The whole chat is just Chikrin. Everyone wants Chikrin. Chikrin, Chikrin, Chikrin. Really?

The Leafs getting Chikrin or what? Just give the people what they want. Throw the red meat to the... I don't know. Let's not go there now. You want to save that? You weren't ready? We're off tomorrow.

I've got a line up here. I've got a phone. All right. Well, if you want to go to it, go to it. No. Okay. No, I want to go to a guy that you've dissed all season long. Oh, there we go.

Yeah. And I just... The lack of respect that you've showned all season long. Oh, there we go. Yeah, and I just, the lack of respect that you've shown Jack Campbell earlier on this year, I find horrible. Yeah, just move on. Jack deserves better. Seven straight for Jack Campbell.

Seventh straight start. And all of a sudden, Edmonton becomes a team that a lot of people like moving forward i mean it's curious to watch it stew skinner just went to the all-star game for the oilers you know jack getting hot might make that an interesting conversation about who it's going to be but guys the oilers look great like they're the best team in the pacific division seattle's stumbling a little bit vegas is crumbling i mean they're they're the best team in the pacific division seattle's stumbling a little bit vegas is crumbling i mean they're they're gonna run this thing down i could not be more confident

in that and yeah jack campbell helping is uh a nice turnaround for a guy who started the season was not good last night's game wasn't was one of those rare games where Connor McDavid and Drysaddle didn't have to carry the offense. Yeah, unusual. One assist for McDavid and zero for Drysaddle. Yeah. That doesn't happen very often. No, but it's a good sign of, you know, what they're building there. You know, there was a greasy game.

Sam, you watched a bunch too, right? I just, I was surprised. And Jack Michaels and Louie were talking like, you know, greasy game sam you watched a bunch too right i just i was surprised and uh jack michaels and louis were talking like you know louis de brus was just you could tell he was absolutely loving it but then he was starting to get pissed off he's like no one is actually fight like he was kind of like scrums here he said i think they could uh yeah when they say cool the temperature if someone actually dropped the glove but it was every single after the whistle, and he just said, like, he brought up a good point saying that

this is the stretch drive now. Oilers need points. Like, it's obvious to me, I guess, that the Detroit's out of it now. But it's just you feel once now that these games are starting, that's the first game for the Oilers, it's the first game for the Rangers in Calgary the other night, that these games are really starting to matter more here now. Like, after the All-Star break, it's time to start.

I know that I just mentioned that last night wasn't a dry saddle or McDavid type of game, which was, again, another good sign, as you just mentioned. But, you know, I've come to the point now watching enough of the Oilers to say that as far as duels go like there's not another duel that can touch mcdavid and dry sidle when it comes to driving a team more consistently than any other team that I've seen.

So we're talking Matthews-Marner here as the comparison. Matthews-Marner, Shifley, Wheeler, Pedersen, and Besser. I don't know. Let's go on. Panarin and Zibanejad.

McKinnon, Landis Codd, we're in the ballpark. Could be Rantan now. Right? On the car. One of those two. Right? We're in the ballpark. But when it comes to intensity and drive,

probably 95% of the Edmonton Oilers games, McDavid and Dreisaitl have now set a standard for those guys in the dress room in Edmonton. And you are, like, guilty. You feel horrible if you are now starting to let these guys down. And that's what I'm seeing out of the Edmonton Oilers is these guys dragging people up to their expectations. And they look like they, McDavid and Dreisaitl, look like guys that just will not be denied.

McDavid sleeps through 0% of the games. Like, if you turn on an oilers game you are going to get a piece of mcdavid flair when he touches the puck it's it really is unbelievable right now so you know again if we go back even to last year with matthew's 60 goal season i mean there was a lot of talk about these guys running one two right and then we we know that we've had some certain conversations where we you know maybe a good week out of matthews where you just directed behind the glass i said sammy said matthews was better than mcdavid yeah for for a small window but if we go to this year with the optics of some shifts

where Matthews has completely disappeared, that just doesn't happen to McDavid. McDavid seems to want some of these records too. I think he has a sense for where he wants to be in historical context when it's all said and done. I think 60 goals and doing what Matthews did is important to him i think winning a rock it's important to him i think setting you know records is important to him and i think that includes winning cups like i think he plays for his legacy and has since he's begun i don't know that many other people are that self-aware

of where they are in the historical context of the game lebrBron James, a guy who, 18 years old, he's got chosen one tattooed on his back. Yeah, I think he knew. And then, you know, and he lived up to it. I think the case can be made that McDavid has and continues to, but he's got to win a cup now, and I think he knows that too. But, you know, again, for me, it's the intensity. And again, I don't, it's comparable to Mark Messier. And I got a chance to witness it firsthand.

And it's an intensity that I can't even articulate. I cannot sit here and find the words to make people understand what it feels like to be in a dressing room with him or be at lunch with him or drive to the rink with him and not ever feel like... Some pressure to try to keep up. A hundred percent. And that never wavers. And I do get that sense out of McDavid now and maybe the behavior of certain guys on the edmonton

oilers and this isn't a mcdavid versus matthew matthew sing this is a mcdavid versus anyone else right and i think we saw that we see that on occasion with stanley cup champions because there is a sense that mckinnon's the same way that's what i was gonna say that's a great comparison is he's there with intensity right yeah and you know you quietly talk to some of his teammates in colorado it's like settle down yeah can this guy just take can you just rest for one second what did he get after him that they weren't chickpea fast chickpea pasta. The food in the dressing room. All of it.

The gas. The foot on the gas pedal never comes off. No, it is different. I don't know. Go down the list. How many teams have two guys? I don't care if you're making $10 million

or not. That ain't Michael making $10 million or not. That ain't Eichel in Vegas. No. Right? It is not. I guess Boston you'd look to in terms of the standard, the top guys with Bergeron and Marchand. It could be Matthews,

but do you get the sense that Matthews is close to that level or he has the ability to get to that level or it's just not consistent? I don't think it's about the level he can get to. I just think it's about the way he's wired. No, I'm talking intensity level. That's what I mean. It's the way he's wired. No, no, no.

It always comes down to how people are wired. Which I think he's just wired a little bit differently than a lot of the superstars. Like I don't think. The story's about Larry Bird, who's an all-time great basketball shooter and how he would stay out after practice till he had a hundred free throws in a row and,

you know, get to 98 and start over again. And people go on, dude, like this is borderline neurotic. Like it's not healthy. We're doing compulsive obsession, right?

Like some is wired in a way. And that's it with guys like mcdavid who you're right sam i don't think that you know i think it's good to be human and have other interests which i think our maple leaf stars are well-rounded people but yeah mcdavid has a freakish determination commitment yeah and who is it that we had on recently that was talking about skate him skate oh was that gartner that was talking about him when we had when we had mike gartner on when you were away that week that was that friday we had him on talking about him being alone at that rink skating like yeah he's got the three on three rinks up in

new market yeah and just the amount of time that he would spend there and whatever and just the commitment to get better with him when you're already so much better than anybody in the NHL. That's just, that's, you know, a, probably an unhealthy obsession with being a NHL superstar. I imagine when you commit to that level and someone on your team isn't. Like Kipper, you talk about those players feeling motivated. But I also imagine when you're McDavid and you see people not giving half the effort you're putting in. And they're not as good as you to begin with. There'd be some interest in going into the coach's office or talking to the general manager and saying uh get this guy out of here which happens you know they say which happens of course and he was at hitch talked about uh or

no i saw brindamore a quote about playing with brett hall and brett hall looking back at the coach and going get this guy off my line like the great players will make requests and i think as mcdavid now gets believe it or not uh closer to that halfway mark of his career and what are the what are the the peak moments for him to to win and be the best he will be so and saying that you feel like now the edmonton oilers have got some some good synergies going including possibly jack campbell uh providing better than average goaltending. And Ken Holland now has to kind of acknowledge that McDavid and Dreisaitl, right? I've got two of the very best on the planet. I got to win now.

I have to go out now between today and March 3rd. And I got to go get this guy some help because he's feeling it right now. It'll be a pull your RV out, someone else in. He's got to trade that 2029 first round pick that he's got for something. So how about the other side of it last night? The Red Wings are. Just on Edmonton, where do they go first?

It's D. You know, is it edmondson in montreal uh i i don't mind him as a as a defender but they need they need a number one power play guy it's not nurse it's chikrin and it's not it's not uh tyson berry clingy clingberg from anaheim chikrin and edmondson to me by the way just shout out to clean costin who was a very effective player played well last night i just i i think we talk about the lease with chickering and we talk about places with chickering to me that has always made the most sense as edmonton but kipper like can they be better on the power play they're historically one of the greatest power play teams listen if if uh i i just don't want to put tyson berry in that spot to try to win three or four rounds yeah i don't either and

if i could have him on the if i could have him on a second unit love it the other thing too is you need somebody still that can play a better 200-foot game on both sides. Barry defending. Some of those low-scoring games in the playoffs, 1-0, 2-1. Just you need that guy that can kind of – Duncan Keith was a nice add. He was. He was just too little too late.

Yeah. But maybe Chikrin's that updated version of, I don't think he'll ever be Duncan Keith. Do you think players would want to go to Edmonton, being that it's, you know, Edmonton? Well, there's that. And then there's, well, I get to play with McDavid. Right.

That's a huge factor. Guys, I mean, not to bring it back to LeBron, but guys were clamoring to go to play in Cleveland when he was there. Right. Good point. So, you know, when you have an all-time great playing that you have a chance to win a championship with, you'll probably go play anywhere. Yep.

So, I don't know. You look at Dreisaitl, McDavid, Evander Kane, and then adding one kind of high-end blue line guy. Don't forget Zach Hyman, the best player in the league, not named McDavid apparently. This guy's unbelievable. And Ryan Nugent Hopkins this year has had unbelievable years at the 62 points.

Scored a big goal for them last night to make a 4-2 in the power play. I just liked their game last night. I think what I've seen from a few other fans is that they're not the grittiest team either. You know, there's a little similarity to the Leafs in that factor. I don't know, when Kane's in, Hyman can do it, Koston can do it. Like, they've got enough forwards. That's what I mean.

They tricked me last night because they were in the middle of it all night. Yeah, Nurse was grimy last night. Toss that one dude. I like. Yeah, the guy I tossed was Tyler Bertuzzi. Yeah, Because they were in the middle of it all night. And Nurse was grimy last night. Toss that one, dude. I like. Yeah. The guy I tossed was Tyler Bertuzzi. Yeah. You like him too.

I like his game. Are we past the other stuff with him? Well, that's a funny point. A funny point. Because I think there would be some pushback to Bertuzzi. As just saying, he's the only guy in the league who didn't want to get vaccinated. And there was in Canada that tends to be a bit of a different issue. But boy, his game suits what the Leafs need.'s a good player man he is a good player yeah we want

to uh you want to avoid that yes i do bo horvat well no we may get back to it we'll see we may we may at some point circle around it because i would much rather talk about Bo Horvat. All right, let's go Bo Horvat a big goal superstar. Yeah, nice little passing his name. I know he was getting chance. There's a guy on Twitter D added you guys to I don't know if you saw it, but he talked about running into Horvat at

Roosevelt Fields Mall and Long Island and giving him a shout out this guy Horvat's getting noticed off the ice chanted his name with all due respect to barzell yeah this is finally the guy that replaces john tavarez for them hmm yeah like a serious leaderly center yes yeah not like a skilly winger playing center. No, no. I mean, I like Barzell, but Barzell's not ready to be the equivalent of a Mitch Marner for the Islanders. Yeah, he's still got some running. You know, Mitch's defensive game, the evolution in that really put him. It's not even close.

Well, it's not. It's not even close. It's not. It's not a priority for Barzell the way it was. That used to be a big conversation between Barzell and Marner. Who would you rather have? That was a conversation at one time,

and now it's not a conversation. It's not even remotely... Not even the same universe. Yeah, exactly. And when you think about, again, one guy's at nine, the other one's at 10-9, all of a sudden, you'll never mitch marner overpaid ever again in your life yeah i mean barzell he does two things really well that just haven't translated

in the big picture to wins for them and basically bring the puck out of his own end and hang on to it in the offensive end some point it's got to get inside and end up in the net and too much just having it too much smoke not enough fire little barzal the islanders have won four straight kipper which means right there in a playoffs uh scenario and i know i love it they um they are tied with the penguins for the last playoff spot but they have four more games played in the penguins it's washington who needs to watch out. They're one point behind Washington, and Washington only has one more game played, or one less game played.

Pittsburgh with an overtime win over Colorado, that at least lets them breathe for a day or two because they're feeling it. Yeah, they should be. I mean, it's tight. It's tight right now. And we mentioned yesterday those contracts they got to their old guys. When you make those commitments to that crew,

you're hoping better than hanging on to the last playoff spot for your life, right? Like you're hoping that you're going to be in the playoffs and not having to worry about it. I guess the devil's emergence kind of caught them off guard this year. Maybe it shouldn't have, but it seems like there's one less spot than they were expecting probably heading into this season. Yeah. I know you didn't watch every game, Kipper,

but did you see the hit on Makar by Carter? I did not, no. Yeah, just like a blindside. There's no such thing. As blindside? Yeah. What does that mean? It means like it doesn't mean anything when you tell me a blindside hit.

You might as well just say a hit. Hmm. I mean, clearly there's a difference between you see me coming and I hate you or I come from some strange angle and clip you. No, no, I get what you're saying. But it's like you're saying it like it's a bad thing and it's not a bad thing. It's not a suspension. It's not a penalty bad thing, and it's not a bad thing. It's not a suspension. It's not a penalty.

Okay, well, then the phrasing is wrong. He got a headshot from Jeff Carter. Okay, then that has nothing to do with a blindside hit. Then that's a headshot, and that's a debatable conversation whether or not a guy should be out of the game or not, and that's a different thing. But when I hear people say, oh, it was a blindside hit. You can hit a guy who has the puck, whether he sees you or not and that's a different thing but when i hear people say oh it was a blindside hit you can hit a guy who has the puck it's an whether he sees you or not it's an

it's an old term that once upon a time meant something but now it does not you're allowed to legally blindside a guy that has the puck that has the puck and you hit him cleanly yes yeah yeah um this is steckle on crosby ask like kind of like that sort of clip clip from the side where the guy didn't see him coming yeah sure make it happen uh tampa two straight losses here after uh they were on fire going into the all-star break yeah they lose to timo meyer scores the overtime winning goal last night scored another goal in the game uh is he the is he right up there with chicken in terms of the biggest name out there i feel like he is he how out there is chicken right now kepper hold on we? Hold on. We're showing him the McCarr hit.

Here you go. You got Carter coming through as McCarr. Ping. That's a nice little clip. Yeah, that is a nice little clip. I think he wasn't real happy about it. What happened? No penalty?

I don't know the context. No penalty. No penalty. Yeah. No penalty. I mean, McCarr had some things to say about it after the game. He wasn't very happy. Any word on anything from the league?

Nope. Nothing yet. See, I can watch that one or two times, and I'd have a tough time seeing the difference between somebody that may have got a game for it. Yeah. Right? Yeah. No, I'm with you.

You know, and the other thing is your screen's got, like, cookie juice all over it, too. Cookie juice? It's not helping me right now. I got to be honest with you. The other thing is your screen's got like cookie juice all over it too. It's not helping me right now. I got to be honest with you. I feel like that's not a good expression. I don't know what it means necessarily. I don't know. There's gook on it.

There's film. There's gook. It's got some crumbs on it. I got kids, all right? They're watching Mother Goose Club on here. What is realistic for Timo Mayer, that he will be rented, or do you trade for him out of San Jose with the hopes of signing him long term? Because I don't see a scenario where someone's going to give up something significant to watch him walk out the door for for free because you also have to be in a position that you might have to qualify him to

retain his rights at 10 million bucks yeah so uh the leafs don't want to get caught with that do they no that's a lot of money but it's not the end of the world i said this on the show before i think much to your skepticism but like timo meyer at 10 millions tradable to me that's he's a good player he's a pretty close to 10 million dollar winger he's got 30 goals and it's february 8th he's second in the league in shots he's 26 years old he's great just tell me go like do a quick scan who can do it yes yeah who can offer him his qualifying offer and uh and not feel like they've dismantled their their hockey club i guess it has to be one of those teams that is rebuilding and hoping to turn things around my quick come to mind detroit

detroit as a team that you know i don't know what their cap situation is necessarily but they seem to be ready to turn it around by the way they're playing terribly okay but if you're steve eiserman i don't have to go get him at the trade deadline i'm missing the playoffs i'm i'm done where's my sense of urgency i'm talking about in the off season if you qualified him and tried to move him yes yeah yeah i think that would be more realistic but again it's within reason if if i think i've got a chance to get him and he wants to come to detroit i may take another 12 months and get him for free yeah at uh at a free agency scenario i feel like i read this somewhere that you would be able to talk extension with meyer and his agent prior to the trade yeah which would be big right to say okay we'll give him eight times nine the number is one

thing but even to have that luxury of being able to get in there a little early, what is my cost of acquisition? I mean, I imagine not too different than Horvat, maybe a little more expensive. Does that sound like a... It does, but does that mean that I need to do this because I feel like my window of winning now... My whole point in all of this is where's where would detroit's sense

of urgency come to go get a guy like no no no detroit doesn't have a sense of urgency to do but lots of teams do and the leafs but they would have to they would have to wait right you'd have to wait two years almost for timo if you're not in contention if you're not in contention this is where you're kind of caught between a rock and a hard place have him for this year yeah extend him and trade someone else who costs a lot of money 100 percent which and you know who that is right now you don't have to come on bill you're not signing yeah because willie's gonna cost nine whatever and if you feel like Timo, 10, whatever. So if you feel like Timo is a bull in a china shop version of Willie. Yes. Now there is a sense of making sense on that,

that you're going to have to try to sign Timo Meier at, I don't know, eight and a half, which could be $2 million less than Willie Nylander. But I think there's going to be a lot of disappointed Leaf fans if you traded Timo Meier right now for Willie Nylander. Yep. For sure. But if you could have them both for this season, you could probably talk him into it.

Imagine after all these years of not trading Willie Newlander, do they trade him at his absolute best he's ever played for the Leafs? Isn't that when you're supposed to trade him? That would be. So that's two general managers in this first block that we've discussed that have to be in the here and now. Ken Holland and Kyle Dubas. Yeah.

There's career-defining weeks for Dubas. Mass. Those are, there's career defining weeks for Dubas. Massive. And for Kenny Holland, like if they, like, is he going to be there another year? If they flame out again? I don't know.

They're having a lot of success. Tough. I don't know. It's a good question. I'm with Sammy. I think if, if the Oilers flame out here, I don't think Kenny Holland's back.

The problem, I think, with Ken Holland is he costs a lot of money. And you can probably find a GM who doesn't cost $5 million a year to do similar things. Would he be on the last year of his deal? Five years? I think so. Next year? Next year, maybe, yeah.

Google machine. I think this would be his last full year coming up next year maybe yeah google machine i think this would be his his last uh full year coming up next year yeah so i don't think it's a big deal to write off five million dollars and maybe move off of it but i don't know i get the sense that the Oilers should be okay here for a couple of rounds and then get into that anything can happen conference final. Yeah. Well, you love – if they can get some goaltending, boy, you love the dudes you can score at random for them. So at will, I should say.

Okay. Let's take a quick – Oh, sorry. The last thing I'll say about the goaltending factor with them is they actually have an option this year outside of Mike Smith. Because last year they had Mike Smith and no one else, and they just had to leave poor old Mike Smith, and they're letting in however many a game. Who was even the backup last year?

Was it Stu Skinner? No. Yeah, at times it was. Yeah. But now they have Jack Campbell, who say what you will about his playoff stuff. I've seen it here. But Stu Skinner is a guy that you can throw in there for a few games here and there. Any team, and we'll include the Toronto Maple Leafs on that,

is just looking for that Darcy Kemper recipe. Yeah. Just good enough. Make the saves we need you to make. Not standing on your head and spinning. Just be good. Okay, we'll take a quick break mike kelly hockey analyst nhl network sports logic he's going to come back after the break with us thanks for watching thanks for listening and we are back after these words

this is real kipper and born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. All right, as promised, we're going to bring in Mike Kelly, hockey analyst specializing in analytics. He's going to break down every analytical stat that we saw last Friday during the skills competition. Where do you want to start? On the beach with Mitch in a Don Johnson suit? The Don Johnson suit. I'm a Pasternak and happy gilmore what was that exactly i didn't really understand what was going on what was all of it that's a great question like entertainment well a long time ago i went from you know what this is for the kids it's not for me

if i don't get it it's good. I'm not the demographic. It's fine. And now I think I'm just like, well, all right, I guess this is for the sponsors and the host city. And I always applaud taking risks and being creative. And if it doesn't work, it's fine. I'd way rather that than no creativity. So I give the league full marks for trying some new things here,

but obviously some of them fell a little flat, and they'll adjust to make Toronto the best all-star game ever next year. Okay, so clearly you didn't take any data in off of the skills competition. So let's move on to what you've been able to do, at least on Twitter, and that's mid-season NHL awards. Yeah. Well, where do you guys want to start? Got to start at the very top with a heart.

Yeah. So Connor and then Connor and then Connor. Right. Just save a couple of seats for someone else in the building. Look, I pass when I Ranton in there as well. And, you know, where's Jack Hughes? You know, where you can get into all that stuff too. There can only be three.

That's the answer to all those comments. But that was my case. Look, Pasternak, people will say, well, he's on Boston and they're still great. Well, you know, last time I checked, this was a few days ago when I was putting this together. He had 20 more goals than anyone else on his team. That's the biggest gap from number one on a team to number two of any team in the league. So, you know, he's certainly doing his fair share there. And then Rantanen, when he's carried the Colorado out,

I think he should be in consideration at the very least. You'd mentioned, so we were just going through your midseason NHL awards. You know, you're talking Norris and the Norris award you had Eric Carlson as the the first place slot I'm curious because you obviously are aware of his his career has his defensive game game changed or been that much better does it just not matter given how great he's been offensively uh i think it's closer to the latter um he hasn't turned into some you know stud defensive defenseman um you know by any means but what he does offensively obviously contributes to what he doesn't even need to do defensively and his skating

is back to what it was in the mid-2000s when he was with ottawa and the best defenseman in the league and you know up there is one of the best players in the league. Like he look at the game last night, just times where he's completely controlling the flow of the game. And we haven't seen that from him. You know, I'd say since, you know, back in 2015, 16, those years, he's right back there. So I think he's a slam dunk.

Number one, that's my opinion on the Norris. Here's the one thing on Carlson from my perspective. Is that this guy shines best when there is no clear second banana on his hockey club. He has to be the man. He has to control anything he wants when he's on that sheet of ice. When San Jose needed him the most was when he needed to come in

and share with Brent Burns, who still looks pretty darn good in Carolina. Once you get this guy in a situation with a lot of depth and a lot of egos and a lot of, you know, plenty to spread around, I don't think he shines as bright. And Mike, last time I checked since I was seven years old no matter how crappy a hockey team is somebody's got to lead them in scoring yeah yeah that's all right so the Burns thing was interesting because they they share they want the puck a lot and they both have the puck a lot, and they both have the puck a lot.

They want to play on the first power play. I think there was a lot of overlap there, which makes it tough. And then it's like, well, do you split them on the power play, or do you have those two guys both at the top? And they never really seem to figure out a great balance. You put Burns with someone like Jacob Slavin, great complementary piece to what Burns has, right? That makes, I think even intuitively,

and we see on the ice more sense. I don't know. When Carlson was kind of doing this, and that year that Ottawa went to the conference final very unsuspectingly. He was the man. He was the man, but he was the man on the team with good players as well.

Mark Stone was there. In terms of the blue line, you're right. He was the man he was the man but he was a man on a team with you know good players as well like you know mark stone was there and um in terms of the blue line you're right he was the man yeah so that's yeah i'd say that's fair he played who did he play mark my thought back then um defensive defenseman knew how to compliment carlson really well so i don't disagree with you, but like, is that a bad thing? No, no, it's, it's, it's not, but we've never seen him in a position to thrive. And I don't know. I mean, come on, let's be honest. The year they got within one game, I guess of a conference final, they were the underdogs. They were the team that no one expected to be there.

I just, for me, I was really disappointed in what I thought should have been maybe the cherry on top of a sundae for the San Jose Sharks when he signed there, when he surprised a lot of people in signing there. I thought he was the missing piece. Yeah. Well, while we're on on d unless we're still no we're good we're good oh well on d i want to talk about uh owen power who's a guy who you had second on your calder list he's an interesting guy to me because the calder so often is like here's a guy

who had the most points give him the award but power's playing what 22 minutes a night on a team that's pushing for a playoff spot that had been a cellar dweller. Is there some analytics or is it just you seeing how his impact on the Sabres that make you like him that much? Yeah. Oh, both of it. Like,

like you said, the ice time is huge on a, on a team that's competitive. Um, he was about three minutes more per game than any other rookie this year. We're just talking about rookies. Um, his poise with the puck. he doesn't turn it over,

is exceptional for a young defenseman. I think there's a little bit more that I would value in a guy playing that position and doing it as well as he is. It is incredibly impressive. So power to me is slam dunk top three. And getting pucks out, not turning them over you contributing offensively possessing it in the ozone all things that are kind of hallmarks of good defenseman he's doing it at you know in a lot of areas top 60 top 50 top 30 among all defensemen already and you

know tops among defensemen that are rookies. So for me, just even kind of the traditional test alone is enough of what he's doing for that team in the role that he's in. And you talk about defense or points, when you look at rookies, I think a lot of people can just look at Matty Beneers and say, well, goals and points, that's why he's number one. What Matt Beneers does as a rookie away from the puck is exceptional already. Getting to loose pucks and blocking passes and being disruptive and back-checking. He's already looking like he's going to be a terrific, terrific 200-foot all-zone centerman.

Again, you guys can speak more to that, of how impressive that is of a rookie playing center in the NHL to be that good off the puck already. So the Vezina, when is Allmark's bubble going to burst here? Buffalo really wants to know. Maybe never on that team. Look, I give Allmark full credit for playing really well this year. Like, you know, one of the things that we use that I really value a lot, I don't value a ton catch-all metrics to evaluate a player.

One area that I do is goal saved above expected for goalies because it takes shot quality into the equation, which is a massively important variable. And Allmark's right up there, kind of top three in the league. So forget the fact that he plays on Boston, which is also a great defensive team. He's also playing really, really well. And his numbers show that. He was good towards the end in Buffalo as well.

You just look at some of his numbers there. He was really good. And so I'd have him in the top three. But it's a great race because i think allmark sorrow sorokin hellebuck ottinger any one of these guys can come through with a post all-star break uh stretch here and potentially even take it i think it's a pretty good race yeah it is it's a really good one you know one of the things that you had listed so you're selkie you had bergeron patterson and dino i'm curious about the metric that you guys have for just defensive plays and

where Austin Matthews sits on that. You and I have talked about it. I've written about it. You know, he is far and away first in the NHL in this one metric that sport logic tracks. How do you value that when considering who's worthy of the best defensive forward in the NHL?

A great question. That's something that I think context matters. So obviously what Austin Matthews does away from the puck and the things that go into that, blocking shots, blocking passes, that's one thing you hear sometimes that's kind of funny. It's like, whoa, Austin Matthews

blocked four shots. It's like, yeah, since he came into the league, he's top 10 blocking shots amongst all forwards and he doesn't kill penalties so he does that a lot um but stick checks all those things go into it um now there's there's things that you know i'm always careful you know what you don't know what are we missing um the path that a guy takes on the ice to get to a certain spot. There's things that we're starting to learn, but don't have huge samples on that would go into being good defensively and aware like Patrice Bergeron beyond everything that we know about him and can quantify.

There's more out there that we're going to know as technology gets better and we keep going with this. That's going to show how he's still the guy every single year. So yeah, Matthews does show really well in a lot of those areas. He's really good, a really good defensive forward. But I look at who you play against as well. Do you kill penalties? Other things to kind of make a holistic view of what I,

what my interpretation of that award would be. Seems like Bergeron's got this feeling moving forward that he's just going to take one year at a time. But, I mean, in all honesty, he could easily play another four or five years. Yeah, it looks that way. Man, some of the injuries that he's had, too. Like, this guy is tough as nails, obviously.

It's crazy. And people, I don't know, maybe there's some people that still think it's kind of a legacy thing. While the Selkie's kind of tough to define with stats that are available publicly and sort of give it to Bergeron, no, he's still the guy every year,

as far as I can tell. He's still winning it every year. Yeah. And making $2.5 million this year. Yeah, that's nice to have on your team. At least you can use that. So what's evolved, Mike? You've been paying close attention to stats in the NHL for a lot of years now.

And the thinking changes, I think, as we better understand context for stats and things. How has your use of stats and understanding of stats changed as we learn more throughout the years? That's a good question. It's constantly evolving is what I've learned. And, you know, things that I may have really believed in a few years ago, I think being aware enough to be able to move off of that as new information comes out is important. And I'll give you a really simple example. And this surprises some people that, you know, general hockey fans, even people that work in the business.

So you'll see a lot of times on a game, you know, one team's got 38 shots, the other team's got 27, and the team with 38 shots is losing or loses. And, well, they outshot them, you know, played a good game. Well, maybe they didn't get as good of shots as the other team, and maybe they actually shouldn't have won. Over the last several years, teams that outshoot their opponent actually lose more than they win. And it's pretty simple as to why that is.

Score effects. Score effects, exactly. But, you know, one of the really interesting things i was doing yesterday um i'm a part of a mentorship program with a university here in montreal and a student that i'm working with right now as a project that he's doing looked at um the win probability of teams that out shoot their opponents throughout the course of time in the NHL, 100 plus years. And 60s, 70s, 50s, all that, you don't shoot your opponent, you win. Because back then, you watch hockey, it's like bomb pucks at the net. And there wasn't really a lot of thought of, you know, cycling and moving defensemen around

and all that. But today it's different. So that's one thing that kind of surprises people when I tell them, yeah, if you don't shoot your opponent, statistically, you don't win as often. But there's lots of examples like that where I've just kind of learned to move off of things that I may have thought to be true before as new information becomes available. I almost think that they should almost scrap every shot on goal

and just focus on maybe two or three areas of quality chances that's the only ones i would care about and again it's all in the eye of the beholder i don't know who's charting them i don't know that is an interesting thing like you'd like to know chances instead of shots maybe as a i think there's more valuable analytics than just being wowed with a number of 42 or 44. And you're down six and you heaved a bunch from the outside. I'm not a huge analytical guy, Mike, but I can tell you that I don't get excited if I hear 40 or 45 shots if I've not watched the game. We're getting to you, Kipper. I love it.

I love it. We're breaking you down yeah that's very trots in a nutshell is it not he did he had success as a team that they they didn't care about shots they just cared about getting shots or allowing shots from the outside not the inside right oh some of sometimes you can see five seven shots from the outside and you're like that's the stupidest shot All you did is turn the puck over. That's all you did with that shot on goal. Yeah, for sure. And that's where I think, you know, what do we see oftentimes

at the intermission going back to the period, whatever, when you see the graphic, it's the score shots, hits, block shots, face-offs. Shots, hits, block shots, face-offs shots hits block shots face-offs have almost no correlation to winning a hockey game so I always try to balance it where some of it the fans are interested in and that's important I think we should always show shots on goal because it is interesting and it sometimes does tell a story but to your point and you guys do this now and we work with you know media outlets and a lot of them do this now. We're seeing growth, which is great,

but we're seeing things like scoring chances or slot shots or rush chances that can help tell the story of what's happening in the game and why the score is what it is. Yeah, so on this day, it's official now. The term a shot on goal is never a bad play is officially dead. We've laid it to rest. All right. We have laid it to rest, Mike.

There is such a thing as a bad shot on goal. Well, if I did, I did an article on this. It's one of those things that I did and I'm like, no, one's going to care, but I just want to do it anyways. And it was about teams when they went to face off in the offensive zone how a lot of the set plays that they make were get the puck to the point and try maybe try to move it to the middle but point shots and my thought was well you'd never get into the offensive zone and think how can I get a point shot right it's kind of like a

default last option so why do teams do this on face-off plays that are set plays and i talked to coaches about it and you know some of it is a practical reality look you got wingers pressuring you don't have a lot of time you kind of have to um but what i learned in that is that to your point kipper a lot of the time it ends up in a turnover they shoot a pocket gets blocked and this is a net whatever the other team gets it. So, yeah, a lot of times shot volume can lead to turnovers. Calgary Flames are the example this year, or have been for most of it, of a ton of volume and not a lot of quality. Yeah.

One more for me, and that is, I don't know, I guess outside of maybe Pat Kane, and we know there's a no-move-or-move situation there, is the sexiest forward out there now, Timo Meier? And what are your thoughts on his value? Yeah, he's a big one. I heard Borny talking about him. Just, you know, he pretty much is a $10 million player

when you look at his qualifying offer in terms of the value he brings. Tons of shots brings tons of shots, tons of quality tons off the rush. God contender gets him. They're going to be in great shape. And I think he's probably the most biggest impact guy. But again, like I look at teams,

like I look at last year, I think one of the best signings last year, or one of the best moves was Colorado getting Arturi Lekanen, because he filled such a useful purpose for that team that had enough skill, had enough scoring. He's a puck retriever, disruptive wall guy, and he can provide some offense

too. I never discount those guys in terms of kind of filling in the rest of a puzzle on an already good team. But yeah, Meyer in terms of scoring ability off, he's phenomenal. And Lekanen didn't cost him, I think, a first rounder. I don't know what it was. It was multiple picks, but I don't think it was a first rounder.

Is there a second and a player? Thank you, Sammy. Is there another Lekanen out there right now that you can quickly think of? Because I don't know him. I don't know him. I don't know him. Look, top of my head, someone who can maybe do a bit of that would be like a Barbashev.

Okay. Yeah, all right. A guy who can climb the walls. Yeah. He'd kind of be in that mold in a way. But I wouldn't say they're the same. Like if, you know, Leckanen brings a little more versatility.

Yes, a little smarter too. So we can talk about this another time because I'm sure you guys have other guests to get to that don't ramble on as much as I do. Toronto's playing Tampa, right? Pretty much for sure. How do you beat Tampa Bay? You're the Leafs.

God, do you have an answer? Just score more goals. Score more goals, baby. Shot volume. Pound those shots. But I think one of the ways you can beat Tampa, you look at a lot of the goals they've given up this year, especially lately five on five,

you put pucks behind their defensemen. It's old school, but you can beat them on the walls, I think, and create turnovers. Guys like that that are big on the wing can help you do that. All right. Love it. Love it. Appreciate your time, man.

Thanks for doing this thanks mike anytime guys cheers mike kelly matthew nyes baby go get the puck beat him on the walls okay so i'm hearing i'm hearing right now kyle's having some shorter conversations when it comes to what he's looking for because everybody is throwing knives out there to come back to come back everyone wants their way oh yes and everyone wants them and everybody wants them and right now kyle i uh three weeks out is not in a position to tip his hand. We need to ask Bukala about that when we have him on after because he's been looking at some nice stuff.

Nice look like he had a big weekend. I know he scored at least his 17th of the year, which in college hockey is pretty darn good. And was already named a finalist, right, for the Hobie Baker? I did not know that. I'm seeing that now. Sorry? He's, yeah he's

in the in the vote for it with a handful of other people anyway if that's isn't it a final three i don't know 20 you're a college guy i'm googling it as we're talking it did you not play in the ncaa yeah it doesn't mean i pay attention to it now played in the east coast league too couldn't tell you that half the teams in the league the wheeling nailers it's a great name the orlando solar bears the florida everblades teams i played for um i don't know anyone else all right sammy what are we gonna do we're gonna i just i loved your realization there kipper about shot quality yeah it's felt like a little bit of a come to jesus moment there no it's not i've always felt like that but i don't like you know mask it with a lot of stupid other just uses words not numbers information of uh you know i'm evolving

what's our segment called again? Useful or useless? Yes. Yeah, yeah. Because I'm not buried in all the useless stuff. It's true. Timo Meier gets a lot of shots. He does pull the trigger. I have been in the lab back here.

I cannot wait to give you these trades. I am labbing it up. Why would San Jose want to get rid of a guy like that? I don't understand, to be honest, why a lot of these bad teams want to get rid of everyone good like you need some bodies as young gentleman named connor bedard they have something to do with that yeah okay well there's 30 games left and hang on one guy one team can get them yeah yeah and you would like to be that team by sucking right enjoy your 18.5 chance compared to my 13.5%. That's close to a guy who's 6'2 and has 30 goals in the NHL right now.

Okay, why don't we take it to break so we can get back faster to Sammy with his ridiculous trade proposals. They're not even that ridiculous. They're not. Oh, now I'm really curious. Okay. All right, that and Jason Bukala. After the break, you're watching and listening to Real Kipper.

And Borden. Hey. This is Real Kipper and Borden on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Okay. Waiting on Jason Bukala. Now the official scout of Real Kipper and Bourne. Yeah. Him and Beth. Bukala also has the pro hockey group he's the founder of.

But yes, and Beth has done a tremendous job. the time sammy gets us uh on a call he's gonna get us on a call with jason we're gonna barely hear him we're gonna ask him to call us back twice jason's in a canoe in the atlantic ocean somewhere jason i'm just warning you right now i don't know if you caught our show the other day but you will be dropped by Sammy two more times before we actually get a full question in. Are you okay with that? You know, I don't want to throw any producer under the bus because, you know, I am a rookie on set,

but I have heard recently some dropped calls. Or some fluff, at least in the background. Like people are talking with, you know, cotton balls in their mouths. So I don't know what's going on, but I'm happy to be here. Okay, so three weeks. So in your opinion, you know, you've experienced something like this in the past with the Florida Panthers. How much work has already gone in? How many lines are in the water?

How many deals could come between now and the actual deadline? Lots of work's been done, I can tell you that. I mean, I think that given Toronto's situation, I mean, we've all looked at the standings and figured out who their first-round opponent's going to be. It seems like, I don't know, since November almost it feels like that. And so, you know, you start to look at it and you start to say to yourself right away,

well, what didn't we do well or what could we have done better last year not only to get through a round but hopefully have some sustainability after that. So certainly after Christmas time, pro meetings, amateur meetings, they started to really formulate a plan. And, you know, I've been going through it. You know, Barney and I were just kind of talking the last few days on the side, just, you know, coffee talk type stuff.

And there's a lot that goes into it, though, Kipper. And we all know that, right? Like when we're on this side of the fence, we know it. But there's a lot of things trending behind the scenes that's in preparation for this trade deadline, not just salary cap and player related. There's a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes. So, Buick, when you're working for a team,

what kind of requests might you get as you move up to the deadline? Like, is it, hey, what do you know about this player? Or is it multiple players? What sort of things would a team want to know? How nimble would you have to be to help out a team as they prepare for the deadline i'm pretty uh i like to try and stay in my lane as much as possible on the amateur side i mean obviously you know and when you're in my position after you drafted a prospect um you're still out in the ball you're probably seeing the prospect more than some other guys on your staff just

because you know they're in the ontario league or wherever seeing the prospect more than some other guys on your staff just because they're in the Ontario League or wherever they are. You don't get involved in player development, but having said that, I'm tracking all of the previously drafted players as a director around the world when I'm traveling. I see a kid playing in Sweden, wherever,

Finland, it doesn't matter. If somebody, if I'm scouting for the Anaheim Ducks for example and and they're talking about potentially having you know a deal on the table of Toronto and and part of the conversation is Topi Nimala and I'm in Finland you know I'm doubling down on on coverage live coverage in the arena on players like that so Jason I I've spoken to a couple of teams that, you know, keep dropping out of the Toronto Maple Leafs, the name Matthew Nyes.

And, I mean, when you're three weeks away or, you know, even months earlier, when you have those conversations and that name comes up and Kyle's not tipping his hand, how long do those conversations go before Kyle comes back and says, you know, I'm not letting you know one way or another, but, you know, what else can we talk about? Or are they short conversations? And then Kyle exposes his hand right at the last minute.

I think that it's going to be closer to the last minute. I mean, it's going to be, there's going to be some cap related last minute. I mean, there's going to be some cap-related movement that's required there. He's getting calls on knives. He's been getting calls on knives for going back to, I think we all talked about this kind of thing last year even. So these aren't new phone calls. People are calling him to say, hey, listen, just remember, I want first dibs on this player, or I haven't given my best offer, tease, tease,

you know, whatever the case may be. And one thing that I've, you know, I was on your show recently and I talked about, you know, being all in this year and we did talk about NICE. One thing I want, I'm doing a lot of preparation right now for all the Canadian teams. And so I started the Leaf one. It's a couple weeks out.

It takes a lot. But one of the things the Canadian teams. And so I started the Leaf one. It's a couple weeks out. It takes a lot. But one of the things on Nye's that I want people to understand is that I think we would all be in agreement that the Leafs need somebody who can go to the hard areas consistently, not only to extend plays, but to score goals. I'm talking about some, you know, Bunting gets around the crease and he's a rat and he gets it done. But, you know, there isn't a lot of secondary layers,

third layers around the net on the Toronto Maple Leafs roster. So 99% – it's an anomaly. I've never seen this. I swear to goodness, in 20 years, I've never seen this before. 99% of Nye's offensive chances that he's generated this year have come between the hash marks and the middle of the ice. So 99% of his shots directed on goal have come from high danger, or at least, I'm not talking the wide flank or from just inside the blue line.

I'm talking about all the hard areas. All of his goals have been scored. If we could paint the 12 by 12 square pretty much out front the net, all of his goals, I think with the exception of maybe one, have been scored in that area. So, you know, I think back to the glory days when we had like a Dave Andertruck in Toronto, everybody knew he was going to the net, right?

Like there's no question Andertruck was going to the net. But he scored 50 goals from there. And, you know, you couldn't defend it. So I'm all in on Toronto. But what I'm presenting to Kyle, if you were to ask me today and say, listen, take a look at this because this is a need going forward. It might be able to be a mid range filler for now. That's good enough.

Let's fill something else on the back end with our money. Cause I think this kid can come out of school and maybe he could do this for us. Well, and typically when you would ever trade a prospect you know in a deal at the deadline i presume you would have some sort of at least doubt about what the player is or the player may become when you hear something like that and you become more confident that this is a guy who's going to be a valued piece it's got to get even harder to move off of that player so do you think then that the leafs there's a possibility

they just say hey we think too highly of this guy he's not going to go in a trade and we're going to see if he can contribute this year yeah i think that that possibility is becoming more of a reality the one wrinkle in it of course is that minnesota is the number one ranked team in ncaa hockey now frozen four is going to be done in early April. It's not, you know, this isn't the end of the world. But as you know, it's a huge leap. You've got travel. When I talk about stuff behind the scenes,

there's a big difference between a college bus ride and a college practice playing twice a week coming into the battle at the NHL level at the hardest time of year. You know, planes, hotels, diet, sleep, time zones. Media, us. You know, and this kid will be under the microscope big time.

So, yeah, the media alone, Kipper, it's something that behind the scenes, player development, and I know the Leafs have people in place. They look after the kids that way, too, to protect them. So, hey, would it be a little bit overwhelming? Possibly. Is it worth the risk? I'm starting to lean that way. I have to be honest.

The more I've dove into it here the last couple months, I'm starting to think more and more like he's maybe the guy, and let's go spend some money on the back end. Because if you look at Tampa Bay, and I know I'm going on a little bit here, but Tampa Bay's model, they have a model that works, right? They already know what it is. And if they go back and they get the Bogosians, and they're maybe in the Shenwaters again,

and then David Sabard might be a guy. They have this formula that works. The Leafs are getting closer to finding a formula, but I think that on the back end the meat and potatoes of a playoff run is going to have to is going to take more wear and tear so maybe nice fits in up front you go shop somewhere on the back end it costs you less assets and less less cap you might be able to get a couple players we're talking to jason bucala current analyst with sportsnet former director of amateur scouting for florida you know Jason, it's almost as if that we've heard the name Matthew Nyes forever,

that he's just he's the it thing in Toronto when it comes to prospects. And there isn't even like one other sexy name that we would even begin to think about right away for Kyle to have options to sell if you're going to keep Nyes. Who is that? Is it Fraser Minton out in the West Coast League in Kamloops? Is it Topi Nimela? Like, who is it?

Who else has he got to dangle? There's nobody else he has to dangle. I don't want to be. Okay. Good answer. Yeah. else has he got to dangle there's nobody else he has to dangle i don't want to be okay good answer yeah i don't want to and it's not because fraser minton's not going to be a good player it's because in relation to what i'm going to be selling you this year if i'm the team that's selling the whoever it is okay i'm looking at your first round pick and i'm also looking at nice so nice is a second round pick who's now performing like a first round pick and I'm also looking at Nize. So Nize is a second round pick who's now performing like a first round pick out of that draft.

Or a top 10. Exactly. You know, whatever. Yeah, exactly. So his value is on the rise. So like when I peel back the onion on Nize, if I'm advanced scouting Nize in a potential trade and I'm the Anaheim Ducks, I don't care who you are. Yeah, Arizona.

Year over year, so he's pushing the play more up ice with and without the puck. He's killing penalties. He's scoring goals in overtime. He's already done all that other stuff that I've talked to you about that we knew he could do, but now the rest of his game has evolved, and he's showing the intelligence to be able to do a lot of different things,

which is really important. You know, if you can have a secondary layer on the Pelican or, or, you know, a matchup on a four on four scenario where you've got a big heavy guy, you can skate and match up physically for, and for what a bonus side is. Here's the thing.

Their prospect pool, not deep enough in relation to anybody else compared to nice, which makes your first round pick, you know, in play. And I'm going to actually suggest that the, the Ottawa third that they hold, that could also become a, you know, in play. And I'm going to actually suggest that the Ottawa third that they hold, that could also become a, you know,

a target for a team as they start to get more greedy. Okay. Go ahead. Yeah. If I'm a leaf fan, listen to you. I'm extremely disappointed right now. Cause all you just did interview, all you just did in the last three minutes is tell me that if we don't give up Matthew Nyes,

we ain't getting anybody any good. Well, they're not going to move a roster player that I can think of. I mean, you know, I've gone through a little bit of this as well. I mean, what's the value with all those UFAs going out the door? I mean, you know, depending on, I guess, who you are, I mean, there'll be money in, money out. The Leafs also want to have some depth come playoff time, so they don't really want to move a roster guy out.

I'm just trying to be realistic. If I'm a team buying, I'm going hard after Nyes, and I'm going, these other guys, Niemela, he's a maybe. You know, I haven't seen as much of a step forward as I would have liked out of him up to this point in time. They a kid at college he's a seventh round pick believe it or not that's ryan turveberg he's a great player alexander steve's down at the marlies i really like the way steve's played but we're not talking about anybody's played nhl games and doesn't have the same pedigree as nize or the first round pick that the toronto maple leafs have this year

so if they do have to make a trade for a bigger player and they have to move some money out, you're talking about looking at different roster guys. The name that comes up fairly regularly is Alex Kerfoot. You know, he's a pretty versatile guy, plays up and down their lineup, wing, center, all that. What are your thoughts on how important he is, how he's looked for them?

Where are you at on him? You know, I would, I would move on Kerfoot if it was asking a deal or if it was satisfying the, the buyer on the other end. I mean, he does have a 10 team, no trade list. So there's something to be considered there, but the money is right in that, you know, when you're making three, five. And so three, five is kind of an interesting number.

Cause if you're going to go shop for a guy and the other team is going to retain salary and you know you got to get a third team involved like three five in on the cap pit side it's it's it is what it is but the actual cash money most of it's paid out right guys by that time so it's not a big deal um Kerfoot uh you know I'm the Leafs the Leafs aren't going to win or lose a Stanley Cup with Kerfoot, you know, the Leafs aren't going to win or lose a Stanley Cup with Kerfoot. But they have more of an opportunity. Pardon me, they're going to necessarily win a Stanley Cup just because Kerfoot's in their lineup.

Some other guys on the landscape definitely would be an upgrade. I would supplant Nyes. You know, if I was put on the spot right now, okay, we've got this guy to play in the roster, this guy in the roster, this guy in the roster. Nize is coming out. What do you think? I'm going Nize because I thought Kerfoot was an outlier

last year in playoffs. I don't like the Kerfoot for all his speed. Doesn't get to any of the hard areas ever, it seems. Like, ever. Like, in his last 10 games, and I don't want to beat up the guy, but in his last 10 games, these are honest conversations. Yeah. He's had six high-danger shots, like shots between the hash marks in the last 10 games.

Not good. Kipper hears that and goes. Come on, guys. We've been saying this for like a year and a half, two years. And a nice little water bug, but not going through anybody in the playoffs. Yeah. Hmm. Throw in your boy.

Throw in nice. That's a name. That's a name. um they got to be all in though uh i think we would all agree with that well no but you're you're giving up knives if you're all in that's what you're telling us yeah right yeah yeah that's well or you're adding a couple of nice pieces on the back end because you're still a little bit you know, like are you guys 100% I know the coach loves Hall, but are you 100% Tampa Bay on the road that Hall

is going to be, you know, it'd be nice to get some heavy protection on the back end you know, Muzzin's out. You know, I don't know who that is going to be. Do you like that Gabrikov? I like Gabrikov. I think that I think there's a lot of hype on him right now, though. Doesn't it feel like it's kind of built up its own animal a little bit?

David Savard? I like David Savard. Yeah, I know, but David Savard got built up like that and then ended up a 5'6 in Tampa Bay. He did, but that's what he's going to be on a high-end team. Yes. So 114 blocked shots, I think third on the Montreal Canadiens in hits, and he's in the way all the time.

So, I mean, you know, good teams have those guys in the bottom of the lineup. It's just the way it is. The other thing that may hurt the Leafs is that their first rounder is 27 to 32, 31 or 30, right? I mean, it's a low first round pick. But the only thing that I will say to that in this draft cycle is that that low first round pick, Kipper, would be similar to a mid first round pick last year

because of the depth of this draft pool. Okay, that's good to know. So teams are going to put a mid-first round pick last year because of the depth of the strap pool. Okay, that's good to know. So teams are going to put a different value on that pick than they would in normal years. Yeah, that's, I guess, a good year to be trading a pick that is in the lower end of things. So as the deadline heats up here, are there any teams out there that you see as being particularly

active is there you know that the boston bruins gonna make a move i guess let me narrow that down for you are the leafs competitors going to be active do you think boston ads or tamp ads within the division here well i think tamp is again going back to their model i think they're absolutely going to add something on the back end they're going to find a way to make it fit i don't have their cap in front of me right now but you know they're going to be tight to it and they're absolutely going to add something on the back end. They're going to find a way to make it fit. I don't have their cap in front of me right now, but you know they're going to be tight to it, and they're going to find a way because they already have historically done that. Boston, I feel the same way. I mean, I see some of these big names getting thrown out in Boston,

like the Chickerins, for example. I'm not sure about Chickerin. I don't feel like that's really what their mode is. I feel like, again, that they're more heavy lifting instead of Chikrin. Like, Chikrin's a two-way D, guys. It's not really overly – he's a bumper more than he's a banger. And, you know, he's going to bring you puck movement and some other things. He's a nice piece to have.

I just don't know what the deadline – he's the kind of guy you add to take you over the top. So his boss is going to shop. I think, again, what the deadline he's the kind of guy you add to take you over the top. So his boss are going to shop? I think, again, it's just the same recycled names. You know, the Shens, the Edmontons, the Gavrikovs, maybe the Savards. It's going to be interesting to see what happens

out west. I know that we're probably short on time, but I'm fascinated to see what Edmonton does too because, you know, from a hockey operations perspective, you've got all these high-end players on some of these teams and it just feels like every year gone by is another year closer to them and that that silly conversation that it's not going to work here you know you're getting closer and closer to the windows closing with those high-end guys and and every year the dry settle

and mcdavid don't uh don't go to the ultimate level. I kind of think last year was a little bit of an anomaly, you know, because they've been just okay overall this year. Every year gone by is a year lost, and then you start chasing it before you know it. Yeah, we had that conversation in the first block of our show. One more for me, and that's the Montreal Canadiens. Jason, we heard from Kent Hughes talking about Josh Anderson, and if you take it for face value, he's not moving him. Or if you don't take it for face value with his words of,

we need to be absolutely blown away with an offer, is there a crypto message to any general manager who's made an offer? Make it better? Probably. Probably. offer uh make it better probably to be honest probably um i don't think montreal moves on him or moves him i think that when you look at the makeup of the group you know they've got some uh even there's some other bigger people that they have up front right now um they don't protect themselves really well physically in games and then they got a lot of smaller kind of stature people. I think that it would be unwise for Montreal to move Anderson out.

And if I was a buyer on Anderson, I would be more interested if that contract started with a four instead of a five, 20 goals and some, some meat and potatoes in the playoffs. You know, if it's five, five and it costs you something, so be it. But he's overpaid for what he does right now. Hey, Jason, really appreciate your time.

I know you're working real hard, and it'll snap like this, and you're going to be March 3rd. So really appreciate your time. Anytime, guys. Thanks. Thanks, folks. Appreciate it. All right, Jason Bukla. I like those conversations oh man but they are they do put reality

well that's the point of the conversations but they do make you look at reality don't they Sammy get your butt into this conversation so now that Jason Bukla came on and just a real reality check but on all my ideas that I had just cooked up over here.

We'll go through them. Hey. Oh, I mean, listen. I think he's right. But I think he's right for the huge impact guys. Like, you're not getting Meyer without Nyes. Like, there's any Leaf fan listening to this, they're kidding themselves.

Like, you think Timo Meyer is going to come to the Leafs without them trading Matthew Nyes the other way? You think you're getting Jacob Chikren without Matthew Nyes going the other way? I don't think you have to give up Matthew Nyes if you're going for a lower level ad, but for the high level guys, obviously you're trading Nyes. That's pretty clear.

Nothing what he said there surprised me. So, are you guys ready or not? Kipper's going to make fun of me, but I've been in the lab back here. Listen, don't let Kipper ruin your fun. No, I'm not. I'm going to give you an odd bath cookie

for the rest of the segment. So there's going to be a really common thread in a lot of these trades, and it involves Alex Kerfoot, who he said is terrible. So that's tough. I don't think he said he's terrible. He doesn't get anywhere useful.

He doesn't shoot it from a good spot ever. Right. So I would mention Tyler Pertuzzi. So this is on the smaller end of one. So you need Alex Kerfoot to make the money work. Okay. And you're putting in Nicholas Robertson, who maybe has some value still.

It's up in the air, but still a B-level prospect. You're throwing in that third-round pick that Bukala talked about, the Sens pick, for Bertuzzi. That's not happening. Kerfoot, Robertson, and a third for Tyler Bertuzzi. I got nothing. You've given me nothing. You're giving me a guy on an extending contract or an expanding contract.

Expiring contract. Kerfoot. But you said Kerfoot? Yeah. I gotiring contract. Kerfoot. But you said Kerfoot? Yeah. I got no use for Kerfoot. Okay. Right? He's nothing to me.

Nick Robertson, I don't know if he'll ever play. So, I mean, you're going to lose Berduzzi for nothing or take a pick that a guy that has value and you get a guy that that's you're buying low on a guy bertuzzi is not a third rounder i think there is a good conversation to make about what robertson is at this deadline because bunkus and i disagree on what he is yeah so does he have value to another team when they look at nick robertson and say sure throw him in the package i outside of come to camp uh let's see what you can do there's a little salary retained on that contract as well

for the um i mean he's young still so you're not you're not turning him away as one of i don't know 55 guys in training camp. He's a high-ceiling guy, right? Like, he could turn into a guy who can score some goals. High pick. He can score. His brother's one of the better players in the NHL. All he's done at the very best is maybe help me win some games

in the American Hockey League. I have – he's damaged goods, first of all, guys. Okay? He's taken a beating. I don't know whether or not it's because he's had bad luck or he's just one of those guys that finds himself in situations that leave himself vulnerable. And there are guys, I've played with guys, where I just shake my head and I'm like,

what are you doing? Yeah. You're going to get hurt. You're going to get hit there, yeah. And that's the way they look at Nick Robertson right now. There's nothing out there of significance. So no value in a trade. Not what it was.

No. Not what it was. But, I mean, Tyler Pertuzzi has two goals this year, and he's not lighting the world on fire and his ufa next year i don't think his value should be as high as i don't think that's a terrible you think that's a terrible offer you'd laugh me off the phone pieces that mean nothing to me okay i mean you gave me two pieces that mean nothing to me but you're a you're a rebuilding team the the detroit red wings you're in a transitional time in your franchise you're looking for guys that could potentially come up and help.

Nick Robertson has paddock. That's how I'm selling it to you. What if the Leafs say you can have our 27th overall pick, you retain half on Bertuzzi, and we'll take Tyler Bertuzzi at $2.3 million for taking him to the end of the deal, no? Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, that's better.

Say that again? The Leafs first. Yeah. With full retention. 50% retention from Detroit. First-round pick for Tyler Bertuzzi. Come on. You'd have to extend him. Yeah. No, thanks. I've not watched Bertuzzi enough to really... He's just a pain in the ass, and he can score.

He's had a 30-goal year. He's had a couple 20-goal years. He's a pain in the ass. He can. But is he healthy? Yeah. He's bad. He's healthy. He played last score. He's had a 30-goal year. He's had a couple 20-goal years. He's a pain in the ass. He can. But is he healthy? Yeah, he's back. He's healthy. He played last night. He 27 years old. 6'1", 200. Yeah.

Okay. There's my next one. Chicago Blackhawks. All right. And it doesn't involve Taser K. Oh, I can't wait to poop on this. I have a... Okay, go ahead.

So the trade package includes our boy Alex Kerfoot, of course, because you need him for the money. Rasmus Sandin. And two third-round picks, including the Senators' one. All right. For Max Domi at 50% retained. Jake McCabe at 10% retained. And Sam Laverty at 50% retained.

First off, I love what you're doing here. Thank you. The retention considerations are... I use the cat-friendly trade machine. Oh, really? And yeah, it's approved by the league. Okay. Don't mean McCabe Lafferty.

All day long. All day long. All day long. For the Leafs. Yes. What about for... Does our boy Kyle Davidson, the other Kyle, hang up the phone when i call him that uh sandin and two-thirds basically uh no he does not hang up the phone i think you've got i think you've got something here

you like this one yeah i do i just gotta say i don't know what this jake mccabe fellow i don't know either but all i know is that uh i've got a little bit more depth with Domi up front and some grit and some attitude. Sam Lafferty, kind of gritty guy too, hits. Can McCabe come in and saw off Sandin? I have no idea. I think I like Sandin the player more. I know McCabe has a bit of an edge to him,

but I think more like Sandin the player more. I know McCabe has a bit of an edge to him, but I think more brain farts. And I think Jake McCabe is under contract for the following season as well. So it fills Kyle Dubas' love to not trade for a pure rental at the deadline. So you like that one? Well, I got help. I got help on the blue line and i get help up front okay

borne accepting or or denying as the toronto maple leafs yes probably accepting okay but i'm gonna remind you and anyone else moving forward on Max Tomey, Kyle had a chance to get him for significantly less than the $3 million Chicago paid, and he didn't want him. Has he changed his mind? Maybe. I mean, he sees the way his bottom six looks with the lack of grit and scoring.

I mean, it's the guy that can, he's not necessarily, he's not his dad, but he mixes it up and he scores you know what i think the guy would like in the bottom six at least you know what i think about is uh when tony d'angelo went and played for a million bucks for the canes or whatever and then was wonderful for them like i think there's an element of domi that still like needs to go somewhere and prove himself i understand that he's not any behavior issues but he needs to be a part of a. I understand that he's not any behavior issues, but he needs to be a part of a contributing team. I think he did that in Chicago, did he not?

I don't know. I don't watch that team. They're terrible. I know, but he's had a good season. Yes. Okay, so is that enough for you? You don't think it's worth more to him to come to Toronto and be a part of a playoff run and show he can do the right things?

He's got 35 points in 49 games so far this year for Chicago. I mean, someone's got to score. Tough to get points on that team someone's gonna score though yeah okay my next one ready and this one i actually really like i actually really like them all like the first one can't remember if you're really dumb can you just spit it out and stop patting yourself on the back no i will never okay so this one's with the Columbus Blue Jackets. I'm including, again, Alex Kerfoot, Pierre Engvall. That poor guy's been like all over North America in the last two minutes. Pierre Engvall.

Who's this trade for? Fraser Minton in a first round pick. Whoa. And I'm asking for Boone Jenner. Boone Jenner. Yornis Koparsalo and Vlad Gavrikov and their third-round pick coming back our way. I feel like that is a lot for CBJ to give Toronto. I'm not sold on Boone.

No? No. In terms for the Leafs? Yeah. You don't think he's good? I think he's fine, but I don't know, a difference maker? He's huge. Corporate Salo?

Yeah. I don't think he's had a very good year. No, he hasn't, but he's goalie insurance, like we've been talking about. He's kind of your quote-unquote, your Riddick. You've got to get rid of a goalie, Sammy. Well, when Murray goes on LTIR. When Murray goes on LTIR. No, he's not going on LTIR.

He wants to play. He's just repeatedly going on STIR, the short term. You can't just add that. What's Corpus Allo make? Not much. What, three? Yeah, there's some retention in that. What's Corpus Allo make? Not much. What, three? Yeah, there's some retention in this. There's no retention involved in this trade, by the way.

So he makes, no, he doesn't make that. He makes 1.3. 1.3? Yeah. Okay. I got to send a goalie back. Okay. I wouldn't send a goalie back.

I think you can I think They may need three goalies So I'm holding on So from the Leafs I'm getting the D I need and Boone Jenner up front Some insurance I'll tell you what I'm not doing And I can't believe I'm saying this

I'm not getting rid of Engball I need Engball I do need Engball. I need Engball. I do need Engball. I'll take Engball over Boone Jenner, I think. Engball is 6'5 and can skate. Yeah, great. I need that. Zero career playoff goals in 17. Yeah, I know. I get it.

Zero career hits. He wouldn't be my first choice on many nights if I had to pick other players, but beggars can't be choosers here. And at least this guy can give my team an attitude of speed and quickness. And I don't know,

he's shooting the puck a little better than he has in the past. I said to Sam before the show that, you know, I think sometimes we undervalue like things that Kerfoot does in terms of just being able to skate the puck up through, because he's faster than everyone. And Engvall's the same way, where he takes the puck from the Leafs end to the other end of the rink.

I'll take Engvall over Kerfoot. Yeah. Oh, no question. Yeah. No question. Poor old Kerfee fell right off the bandwagon. All right, now we're getting... He has penalties, though. Now we're getting penalties though now we're getting

sexy it's time for the san jose sharks oh boy so i'm sorry to tell you again that your favorite player in the league pierre angvall on the way out the door alexander kerfoot also on the way out the door our other favorite player matthew nize on the way out the door. Our other favorite player, Matthew Nyes, on the way out the door. That Ottawa third round pick and the second round pick in 2024 for the Leafs. Oh my God. For Timo Meier

and Steven Lorenz, who is a six foot four center, who's got 10 points this year, big guy, can play center, can play wing, bottom six guy. I don't think they can fit Timo

in the salary cap. that's what 10 retained salary for timo mark 10 okay i didn't hear that yeah i didn't i didn't say that part till right now so sorry nize the first no no first a second in 2024 and For the Leafs. Kerf, Engv. All day long. No way, Sharks? I don't think. I wish I knew anything about Lorenz. He's a 6'4 center, can play the wing. If Nyes is what Jason just told us,

and you believe that this guy can come in and in two years be Timo, yeah, I'm doing it if I'm San Jose. I just get a younger Timo Meier. So you're not doing it if you're the Leafs? There is so much fear. So that's a win.

You know why? Because I believe that the window is now. So much fear if you're Calduke and trading Niles. Get off the pot right now. You know, what is the ceiling? Someone's going to take a big dump this year.

What is the ceiling for Niles? I don't know. You know that well, don't you? Taking a dump? The dump part? Yeah. Oh, come on. He can't find it right now.

Good. Good. Okay. So this one is ridiculous, but everyone's loving the chat, so let's get ridiculous. We are going to go to Phoenix now, or Arizona. I'm really enjoying this.

Thank you. And the first name off the board is, of course, Matthew Nise. Rasmus Sandin, the Kerfoot Nangvall boys. Your 2024 first, a third, and a fourth. Oh my God. For Jacob Chikrin

and Lawson Kraus. Done. With 15% retained salary on Kraus and Chikrin. Done, done. What do you mean done? Leafs. Take it.

Run. Take them. You got Nyes in there. You got your first in there. You got Sandin in there. Yeah. Like that trade. Do you bill armstrong likes that trade uh yes yeah i do okay i do it's a blockbuster voice can you imagine can you imagine our show it's a blockbuster and i'm all in for the Leafs. This will get me a good run at Tampa and Boston.

Krause is under contract at 4.3 till 27. The Chickren's at 4.6 till 25. Locked in. Locked in. You're getting a lot of years of contracts of the good players you're getting. So, Nye's a first. They're looking at 8 million. What else you got?

9 million between them. I had. I got it. Nyes, Sandin, Kerfoot, Pierre Engvall, a first, a third, and a fourth. And that's all 20? It's the 23 first, the 25 third, and the 25 fourth. 25 down the road. I like that punt.

I don't know what it does for the salary cap, but you don't even have to throw in Engvall. They don't care about Engvall. You need it for the money. Yeah, I mean, but find something else. You trade Engvall for a second or a third. The biggest swing ever has been, he's like, you can't trade Engvall. This one is stupid, so I don't know if you'll want to hear this one,

but this one is a monster one as well. It's my last one I'll give you. We're going for Barbashev and Ryan O'Reilly. Holy smokes. And this all works under the cap. You have to retain 30 on Ivan and 50 on Ryan O'Reilly, so that's going to cost you. So you're going Fraser Minton, a first round pick in 2023,

and that Ottawa pick that Bukala liked. And then you got to go a bunch of contracts. You got to go Bobby McMahon and Joey Anderson to make it work for contracts. So Barbashev is expiring and O'Reilly is expiring. Yes, so that's a pure rental trade. But you're not giving up your high-end prospect. You're giving up Fraser Mitten, who's down the road, but it's the first-round pick that's the real prize in that trade.

Done? Yeah, done. For Leafs and Blues? I love that Engel and Kerfoot are the new Brown and Bracco. It was Brown second and Bracco. You can tell me now, give up a first for Beth's cookies right now. And I'm saying, yes, they are so desperate. The Leafs are so desperate to add new bodies that you have to be all in.

This is it. This is it. This is it. Can you imagine what the least bottom six looks like with Barbashev and O'Reilly in it? Not better. Barbashev is really interesting. The only reason I have hesitation on him is because everyone was going to want it.

So he's going to cost. That's all the calculations done, right? All the calculations are done. But I said Ryan O'Reilly, he had to retain 50 and Barbashev, he had to retain 30 to make it work, to get it under the cap. So I do have a question about name players and maybe being in decline.

Patrick Kane being one. Didn't even include Patrick Kane in my trades. Yeah, O'Reilly being another. Like some of these guys that have done huge things in the sport and may cost you more money than you're really getting back value wise. Well, first of all, you're not sure what you're going to get. Well, you're not right. Well, Kane's a great question.

I have no idea what he would do in a new environment. Would he be reinvigorated by a playoff chase? I'm not convinced he's going anywhere. Yeah. Probably, you know, if he's going to give a narrow grouping of teams to Chicago that he wants to go to like where? Rangers

I think he wants to go to New York knowing that I'm going to go there I'm going to maybe like it I'm going to maybe go on a nice run with these guys and then I got to say goodbye to them they can't keep me.

Like, well, I've already got three Stanley Cups. When am I going to go? I guess if you're Kane, you're like, move someone to keep me. I'm Patrick Kane. No, but that conversation needs to happen. Yeah. And that's not New York. They're not going to go.

Who are they moving? Your boy, Truba. Kidding. How about that? I Your boy, Truba. Kidding. How about that? I was in the lab back here, boys. You were working today, Sammy. I was retaining salaries. Great job.

Thank you. Wow, that was a nice finish to the show. Thank you. All right. Just like that, two hours. We're all cookied out. Mike Kelly, great job. Jason Bukala, great job.

Sammy McKee, great job. Maybe you should be on the trade deadline show just to make crap up when they twiddle their thumbs for six hours. Proposed trades on deadline day is not a bad idea. All right. Did you wear your glasses today? No glasses. I'm just raw. I can't see anything. Why? right. Did you wear your glasses today? No glasses. I'm just raw.

I can't see anything. Why? Why didn't you wear your glasses today? I don't know. I'm feeling like a nerd. All right. Thanks for joining us, everybody. We're back again on Friday.

Enjoy the NBA trade deadline show.