Real Kyper & Bourne - Big City Match in Toronto

Episode Date: January 25, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee begin with a look at tonight's Leafs game against the New York Rangers, the matchup against Igor Shesterkin, Sheldon Keefe running with the same line mix-ups and which goalie they think Keefe has more faith in. They are joined by former NHL goalie and Rangers studio analyst Steve Valiquette (21:26), who discusses Matt Murray's struggles when the game is tied, the NHL's need for a 'Drive to Survive' type documentary and the weight of expectations on Shesterkin. Next, ESPN's Kristen Shilton shares her thoughts (41:40) on William Nylander's under-the-radar season, this year's lucrative trade deadline and if it's worth shaking up a winning formula for a one-year rental. Then, former NHL forward Mark Recchi jumps on to discuss (1:07:18) the challenges new head coach Rick Tocchet might run into with the Vancouver Canucks, building relationships with the core group, and how teams find motivations during the regular season ahead of the post-season. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. And this is game day. Another one. And then another one Friday. That's great. And then another one Sunday, but we're not working, so it won't matter. No. Leafs aren't working much either. They're taking days off.

Practice is off. Well, it's almost like baseball where you almost play every day yeah yeah you see you just kind of gear up on game days and the other day you just take a knee rest exactly we don't rest we don't ever rest never and we're not resting for the next two hours because we got a terrific show for you steve valicat will be joining us in about 20 minutes analyst for the new york rangers he'll break down a much more interesting game tonight hold on then what you call my islanders uninteresting yeah i did yes yes i did okay that seems fair which they had a good period they've good 15 minutes good 15 minutes doesn't carry you but i I think the Rangers will be a little better tonight as a challenge. And Rangers have been an ongoing challenge for the Toronto Maple Leafs for various reasons.

And one biggest one, Shusterkin. Yeah. I mean, that guy has been a world beater last year and pretty good decor in front of him, too. So that's the task. Get to that man kristin shilton nhl reporter for espn will also be around uh probably about 40 minutes in and then mark recce in the second hour three-time stanley cup champion uh he's gonna come on and uh he wrote a terrific article on what maybe the challenges for rick talk it will be in Vancouver. Debut last night against Chicago.

Got that new coach bump. Now, did they boo him a little bit? Yes, is the answer to that. How do you boo a new coach? He didn't fire anyone. That's to me, that's one of you see someone booing, you're going, what are you doing? Who are you booing?

I know. Boo this man! No, don't. That's actual of you see season one boo and you go, what are you doing? Who are you booing? I know. Boo this man. No, don't. That's actual game audio. They're just generally unpleased. And Vancouver seems like kind of a mentality. And it's going to take a while here, I think, to turn it around. That was the voice of Sammy McKee, Derek Brandale,

Jen Rolnick, all along for the ride my buddy derrick brandale always i think maybe i don't know if it's just a coincidence but on game days he seems to have more food on his desk he's got the game today i'm looking at this bag and he's got like cookies and like this one has like double whiskey in it. I know. He told me he's like, sorry, I brought whiskey cookies. I was like, yeah, it's fine. But you're an alcoholic, so you can't have one. I don't think I should be having a whiskey cookie. Should I get this cookie out of the studio?

It doesn't bother me any. And the alcohol's burned off. Is it? How many whiskey cookies would you have to eat to get a bus? don't know i'm about to find out boys but i don't want to ruin your life because of a cookie if you imagine oh it's the whiskey cookies my wife's just in shambles yes you'll be okay you've worked so hard it's not like peanut butter and you got a terrific have it near me and be okay you got a terrific book coming out in like two weeks three and a half, two weeks.

This would be a very bad time for me. Oh, my God. Relapse. Falling off the wagon because Derek Braddale brought Aunt Beth's cookies. He's in shambles right now at the application. All good, buddy. You may have to get the bag out. What is it? Like, let's plug them. I don't care. get the bag out. What is it?

Like, let's plug them. I don't care. Aunt Beth's cookies. What is it? Yeah, a place I've never gotten cookies from before. All right. And, like, does Aunt Beth have the smallest hands ever? Because I couldn't.

I had to get Derek to get me a cookie out of that. I couldn't get my hand in the bag. Come on, Aunt Beth. Get your hand in the cookie jar, buddy. It's on purpose. All right. It is a snowstorm today in Toronto. my hand in the bag come on get your hand into the cookie jar buddy um on purpose all right it's a it is a snow storm today it is it's a it's a you know it feels like it's once a year these days that you get a big one but it's a it's a big one today it's it's a white it is it's a white of it

me too i'm scheduled to go to the game tonight oh you're i'm covering the game i'm here till 1 a.m tonight you are yeah in my little v-dub jetta so past the leafs and rangers you also have uh vancouver tonight yeah wow yeah i know they know that i just wrote an article too it's on sportsnet this could affect uh your energy tomorrow on our show oh good chance do i have to talk to anybody about that? We have six guests tomorrow. Multi-platform beast, Barney. Just right. Wednesdays are busy.

Radio, TV. Yes. What can he do? He's hot right now. Matthew's mic'd up tonight for TNT. Really? Yeah. Him and Barkley Goudreau are the two guys that are mic'd up tonight for the opposing teams. And is he coming on our show tomorrow?

Matthew's? Oh, yeah, yeah. Let me just dig into that for you. And who do you guys have mic'd up tonight for the opposing teams. And is he coming on our show tomorrow? Oh, yeah. Let me just dig into that for you. And who do you guys have mic'd up tonight? Me. Why do they kiss the ass for TNT

and they just like look at you guys like you got three heads? Listen, I saw Edzo in here beside me yesterday. I tell you which guy I'd be kissing up to between the two of us. Yeah, make sure, hey, if you haven't listened to that, if you're listening to this show and you haven't listened to that, it's a pretty evergreen conversation. You can go back and listen to it anytime.

Ed Zolin's studio yesterday was spectacular. Go to Spotify, iTunes, go back and check out that because that was awesome. Alright, speaking of cookies, the Leafs are going to need a few tonight because it does appear that Shisterkin's Speaking of cookies, the Leafs are going to need a few tonight because it does appear that Shisterkin's feeling a lot better these days.

This is a team that Shisterkin's kind of owned them for the last little while. It just seems every time the Leafs are up against this guy, he comes up with a gem. You and I went to the game last year where he was unbelievable against the Leafs. In the last 10 times he was unbelievable uh against the leafs in the last 10 times the leafs have played the rangers they've only won three i think they're one three and one in the last five against the rangers so they've had their handful hands full with this group they defend well they've got some elite talent good goaltending i mean the rangers have

underachieved so far this year i still think they're a team that can threaten for the stanley cup this year and it appears that uh the lines are locked in again matthews marner tavaris way back neil ander who's looking to become the sixth player from the 2014 nhl draft to reach 400 points wow kind of impressive let's go to sheldon keith on sticking with his lines. Keeping it the way that I had for the last couple months, it's a lot longer than I had expected it to. To me, Matthews and Marner work really well together, and I always thought going back to that.

But it was going well for us as a team. It was going well for all of them as individuals, so there was no real need to switch it. I think here of late, things have not gone as well for both groups. The individual players have maybe had some moments of greatness, but to me their groups haven't really gone as well. And then when you make a switch and both groups really hit, I think it's just natural to just to just stay with it but the fact that for such a long period of time it worked the other way gives me confidence to flip

it back if i need to and and uh you know work work within that all right he's going on forever and ever and ever listen i can i can sum up what he just said in like five seconds. Okay, let's have it. I'm playing 18 holes, and I only got like two sticks in my bag. You can use them both. I got one called Marner and Matthews, and I got another one called Tavares and Nylander, and I can switch them.

Yeah. And that's all I got. that's it you're right and so I think it was inevitable you would get back to this I think he probably makes the change to get Matthews and Marner back together then Willie and JT put up four points in a period and he's like yeah yeah them too

I meant to do that part I don't know it's just not that many options in terms of how to move those guys around so there you go. They're back at it. Matthews and Marner, the dynamic duo. Yeah. Batman and Batman.

Just to go back to Shisterkin against the Leafs. Yeah. He's played five games against the Leafs. He's won four of them. He's got a 9-3-8 save percentage and a 1-9-9 goals against. So you're correct. Ownership. He owns the leafs papers yeah okay i got some work to do here that's where i i'll look at tavaris and the line knee lander

tonight and this is this is the game that i want to i want to see what we saw yeah against the islanders for sure you know what's interesting is the leafs one of the ways that they have they don't give up a ton of goals is they have the puck a lot right they're like they're a good possession team the rangers are the number one puck possession team in the nhl in terms of time of offensive puck time just imagine i said that good hold on i think it's the cookie talking let me write that down. Offensive puck time. Okay, I wrote that down.

You know what I mean? They're the puck all the time. So if the Leafs don't get to be the team with the puck, controlling the play, it's a lot more pressure on their D, yada, yada. I think that's going to be a story of the game. Can they end the Rangers cycle and get it going and play in the Rangers end? And you mentioned Tavares and Nylander there, Kipper. You got some numbers for us?

No. I was just going to say that I think you said how fast that Tavares looked against a sluggish decor for the Islanders. Yeah. A little bit of a different kettle of fish tonight with the Rangers. Chasing around Adam Fox and Kay Andre Miller. A little bit more fleet of foot, rangy, faster guys on the decor. So I think it's going to be a good challenge.

Yeah. ranger, faster guys on the D-Corp. So I think it's going to be a good challenge. Yeah, and I do believe that the gap that we saw against the Islanders will be a lot tighter with the likes of Trouba and Keandra Miller. Like that gap. Distance between the Fords and D and the Islanders? That we talked about the other day where you're watching 110 foot passes up and turning them into goals that that that won't be there tonight at least i don't anticipate it the gap control would be much uh tighter against the rangers tonight it's interesting because you think about when they put neil ender at center and then the next day keith basically he moved him back and he said you know one of willie's strengths is that

he's the first guy out of the zone right and he stretches out the d and pulls him back i wonder if his style of offense only works against certain teams not only works he's good pretty consistently but you know going into playoffs it's going to matter who the matchup is i think you'll see matchups where willie is awesome because it works against this team and somewhere it doesn't because it doesn't work against that team. And Tampa's pretty good. Again, Nylander's taking his game to another level.

So it shouldn't be that obvious to you that his game's gone to another level. You should make the adjustments where you can still find ways uh to excel if not dominate with your your talent yes that's the difference between nylander this year and what we've seen in the past is that you've gone you've gone to another level here you should not be able to look back and say well it's just just not a great fit for me against those guys.

Yeah, that's a great point. The elite players, it doesn't really matter who you're up against. You find a different way. And I say Willie's made some strides. You know, I wrote an article on him last week. He was, last year, he was 106th in the league in inner slot shots, like shots from right in front of the net. This year, he's 25th.

So he's getting to that part of the rink more against, you know, teams that try to keep him out of there bigger stronger more confidence to cut in yeah and we saw that uh on his uh brilliant goal off of tavaris's pass yeah against the island the ot winner against florida so i assume they were on out there for morning skate working hard preparing for tonight's game whole team out there doing a big practice today was that right sam yes uh and then one of the reporters asked he's like oh pretty lightly attended morning skate this morning and then i you know what i just thought it was a little bit different pace different kind of answer that keith gave you guys want to hear it sounds good yes it's been you know we had a shorter practice yesterday we do want to keep the intensity high

and such but yeah it's usually a pretty good indicator of where the guys are at in terms of energy levels and such. We are in an every-other-day type of rhythm here, and we're trying to be mindful of that. The break is approaching, so that's a good thing that the guys can see on the horizon here. Yet you still want to make sure you're not just saying, hey, let's empty the tank all the way through here, and then the break we can recover for. We still have to be smart in terms of how we're managing this, so we'll take tomorrow off as a group to get ready for the rest of the week from there.

But, you know, I'm glad that the players, in the morning skates like this, you really want to put it on them in terms of what they need to have themselves ready to play tonight. We use the term a lot that morning skate is optional and the game is mandatory. And that's a big break coming up. So just to touch on after tonight, it's the Ottawa Senators Friday. Correct.

So Washington Capitals on Sunday. And then one final game in the first week in February. Against the Bruins on Wednesday night. The Bruins. Yeah, let's not make sure that they're not ahead of themselves and already in the Bahamas that night. That's too bad. You know, I hate that there's like a distraction on the other end of that game.

You'd love for that to be. I mean, I guess you can go all in on it knowing you get some rest after that. I think if you can't get locked in for that game on home ice, regardless of what tropical vacation awaits you, I think it'd be a big problem. You get more pictures of Mitch Marner and Justin Hall on a PJ somewhere probably three hours after the game. Yeah, going golfing or something. Yeah, it's there you'll know it's there how much of a professional are you now to just lock it in for a good hopefully uh 60 minutes a regulation win would be uh awfully nice but that is a very long break for them it is what hey what were your thoughts on keith talking about guys resting and i know it's a major difference

from your era when you played and even when i played the focus on rest for these guys and i know having worked with sheldon he's always trying to design his practice that's 29 minutes he's like we can't add anything else. We don't want to go over that. The meeting is seven minutes and we got to keep it under five or we'll lose the guys. Shorter, shorter, less practice time. What are your thoughts on that evolution?

I think it's smart. I think it's smart for sure. It's a long year. If every day you're going out there and bagging it. Rest, nutrition, all of that. And I do buy into a science around it for sure. But it really comes down to still your comfort zone on liking your team, knowing that they're in a good place.

Like all bets are off when you lose, right? And it's an easier process to think that there's a beginning, middle, and end to the method of the madness. But when you're losing, all bets are off. So worse. Including listening to a sleep doctor. And like you're already losing games. And then your coach is like, well, you're not getting the day off. So including listening to a sleep doctor. And like you're already losing games. And then your coach is like, well, you're not getting the day off.

We got work to do. And so now it's more time stuck wallowing in the mud and figuring it out. It really is a terrible cycle. But it is funny now. You think about it. Hockey players are not all Harvard educated guys. You know, a lot of these guys went straight from high school to junior hockey to get their attention to focus and learn we're like cattle i know okay sheep we just we just follow the herd tell yeah tell me what we're doing so there are days where you're like today's a

learning day like or you gotta tell them the day before guys tomorrow is going to be an hour on the ice you're gonna bring your thinking hats, you know, caps, whatever. And we're going to walk through a rotation in the D zone. When we used to, like, when there were no charters, eh, we'd all, like, race through airports and there'd be, like, you know, and you can tell no matter how busy it is when there's, like, 15 guys at, like, 6'2". Yeah. And you're all tight together.

People are looking around, staring at you. Yeah. And then every once in a while, I just go. They just shuffle you around. And it would work. In your itinerary, wherever you're going. Was that your cow? It was my cow.

Oh, okay. And then there would just be a part. Let's hear your best cow. That sucks. I don't got it. I don't got it. I thought you were doing an alarm. It's a cookie alarm.

Samson off tonight, guys. What kind of statement can he make against an all-star like Shisterkin? You know, playing him. Feels like he's got a lot to lose now every game, which is not necessarily what you want. Don't you think? Like now he's established himself as a starter, and like the next trip up, it's gone.

He could lose tonight by a goal and still make progress okay so i do believe that i lose 2-1 and he plays great yeah so fine okay yeah i think that's fair i just do i like the idea of him getting in more big games more big moments where the pressure is going to be on you don't want him getting all the cake games then all of a sudden it's game one or game yeah one and you're in tampa bay that's like okay so yeah i like the idea if he's going to be the guy give him some tough matchups all right let's listen to sheldon keith talk about uh his number one starter tonight yeah i think it's just the process uh you know that that they go through in terms of you know the plan that you want to see the goalie play with and obviously curtis is a lot more dialed into that than i am but as we go through it in terms of what the expectations are and

he's showing me clips of things sometimes maybe even when the puck doesn't even get to the net but it's just if it got to the net that he's in perfect positioning and his depth is right he's tracking the puck well he's reading the play well all those sorts of things that don't necessarily show up on saves all the time but just that he's ready and he's focused. And sometimes it's even more important because it fuels the big saves and everything that your process is right. So if the puck's not coming, maybe you're not getting a lot of shots, you're not getting a lot of chances, but your process is really focused

and very sharp that when the chance comes, you're just going to take care of it and make it look easy. I think that's what we've seen from him as he's gotten into rhythm here, and that's, of course, encouraged us to keep him going. Did you get any sense when you worked with Sheldon with the Marlies, what his overall feel for goaltenders was. Really eager to defer and just say. Really.

Just say. Didn't suggest that I love this guy because he's quieter or a lot more technical. We had Garrett Sparks. Yes, he was. Right. Yeah. Antoine Bibaud was quiet.

And yes, you'd love to have the quiet guy, you know, have success. And I don't know. There's certainly a personality element in any decision. I would say that that is an element that certainly there is some, okay, we would like for this guy to have success, but generally didn't make the decision. So I'm going to give you another animal sound in about a minute. But like hanging out and playing with Glenn Healy, right? I'm going to give you another animal sound in about a minute. What a barnyard day.

Hanging out and playing with Glenn Healy, right? Every time he'd critique a goaltender, it would always be nice and quiet and tight. And he's like, no. And he goes, mm, mm, mm. Like he was a seal. That's how he would describe a goaltender. What? Like a seal, you know, just flopping all over the place. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a a seal. That's how he would describe a goaltender. What? Like a seal, you know, just flopping all over the place.

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a good seal. I'm not even going to attempt that seal. I will say, typically when goalies struggle, they're on their belly a lot. So I get the seal analogy. Who do you think Sheldon thinks will be there for him? So I've heard him twice now. You know, I just said Sheldon likes to defer. I've heard him twice now reference Curtis Sanford and Ilya Samsonov.

So Sanford seems to like Samsonov. Sanford is taking pride in the progress of Samsonov. They seem a little bit invested in the evolution of samson samsonov's game which gives us a perfect time to segue in a professional goalie analyst oh thank god we were dying do not try this at home folks okay let's welcome in steve aliquette analyst for the new york rangers on msg and we're just trying to pick and choose who we think maybe a guy like Sheldon Keefe, head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs, would see starting for him in game one. I don't believe there's a problem in New York, people trying to guess who their goalie is

going to be. But, you know, when we look at Samsonov, Valley, I look at a guy that I would believe that the Leafs would think is a heck of a lot more talented than Matt Murray. But yet, they would look at Matt Murray and go, well, this guy's a lot mentally stronger for maybe a playoff run here. So is it pick your poison in January? Okay.

So, no, Kipper, look, I came prepared, boys. I'm not coming on the Kipper and Bourne show shooting blanks. Oh, my God. I'll tell you what. Here's the first thing. Now, guys, you guys have been on the bench before. You guys know how it works. What does it feel like when you're in a battle,

score tied, and your goalie gives up a goal? What does it feel like? Yeah, heartbreak. Feels like crap. Yeah. Heartbreak. We've been battling this hard, and that goes in now? Yes.

We've got twice going the other way. We've got no chance. We've got no chance with goaltending like that. And then what does it do to you? It kills your demeanor, and if it happens often enough, that's when it becomes a theme. And the only predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Right now, Matt Murray has the fourth worst, and I'm talking worst, save percentage when the score is tied on the scoring chances that he faces.

All right. On the flip side of that, Damsenov is right at the top. He's right at the top, one of the league's best. When the game, to me, there's a different – I want to bring you inside the skates of a goalie. There is a different sense of game and responsibility at score tied than making a save when you're down two or when you're up by two or three when you're relaxed

and in the rhythm of the game. So I know you can go back to past experiences in playoffs and what Murray did in Pittsburgh, but there's already enough evidence right now because we're so far in that he's not making the saves that you need when you're tied. Pay attention to this. See how he does from this point forward.

So far, he's been the fourth worst in the league at giving you a save at score tied and that that matters there's a lot of pressure and it's a different pressure on the mindset of a goalie at score tied that's interesting valley we saw um matt murray the other day wearing glasses at practice um you know they're working on something that maybe you know more about than i don't to some sort of uh you know using the middle of your eyes you got to turn your head all the way kind of a blinders type situation what does it make you think or feel when you hear about a starting goaltender you know at the driving range with gadgets trying to figure out his swing before he heads out to sunday the masters

all right boy you guys know i'm up to speed on your show and i know you've had this conversation we have we have to ask someone who knows about it. I'm not talking to the players, boys. All right, so this is interesting. This started in 2012. So can you imagine having this conversation 10 years ago, right? This is not new. It's not new.

It's not. It's actually Lyle Mast really popularized this, and he's from out east, and he's worked with a lot of really good goalies like Jari and Comrie and these guys were guys that I was actually tracking for that draft and I was working for the Islanders at the time, Borny, and these were the guys that I had called on and they were all working with the same guy out west and it turned out to be Lyle Mast. He's a great goalie coach out there and Swidivel vision was very popular. These guys were already using it. And this is 10, 11 years ago.

So fast forward a little bit, and I find myself in summer camp with Devin Dubnik. He was down and out at the time. He was in Hamilton in Montreal and was looking for a spot in Arizona. And we started using these, these swivel vision and started getting the concept of head trajectory and tracking.

And I even once saw, Kipper, you were doing a piece on Hockey Night in Canada during the intermission on this. Do you remember that? It was like 10 years ago. With the dark glasses? Not with the glasses, but you were in the net and you were talking about tracking.

Yes, yes, that's right. Remember that? Yeah, Kelly Rudy. Kelly Rudy, right. So this is where that conversation came from. It was that guy. It was, once again, Lyle. So this is where that conversation came from. It was that guy. It was, once again, Lyle Mass. That's where this stuff came from.

And I'll never forget the way that Devin Dubnik explained it to me because he was, you know, getting through it in training and using it in practice. It really turned his career around. He said to me, he said, Valley, if I could explain it like this, it locks your eyes in your sockets. And if you understand, the only way that you can see the puck

is if you move your head to do so. So it's interesting because you actually have to, if a rebound goes to the goalie's left, you want their head to come all the way around and get over the leading knee for you to have maximum explosive push. But to do that, you've got to get your head in the right position. You can't see staring straight ahead and then using your eyes just to glance to the left. You need to turn your head to do it.

So the way Dubnik said it to me, which made a lot of sense, is like I just imagine my eyeballs are stuck in my sockets, and the only way that I can move my body is if I move my head. So that's why swivel vision is important. It's also very important for tracking the pass, the release, and the rebound. It's something that around the same time, 2012, I was having one of my young goalies use. He started wearing it on the bus going to his games,

and the coaches called him. He was like, what's with Strauss? He's wearing these things on the bus. What's going on? But the kid goes out and plays well and uh fast forward he was the goalie that was uh starting goalie for the United States last year at the Olympics Strauss man yeah so like I've been doing this stuff uh I'm up for it but that one in particular I'm not about gadgets I don't even like cones on the ice but that's the one thing that if a guy can't lock on, pass, shot, and rebound,

it really does help. It remedies, and it's like a source of therapy. I'm okay with Murray's dark sunglasses, but the moment I see a cane and I see an eye dog, I mean, he's done. He's done, okay? Done. Now, let's just guess for one second that there are issues that Curtis Sanford

has seen with Matt Murray. He wants to use this week to practice, to work on head trajectory, whatever we want to, you know, terms. And now we see Samsonov running with it. My question to you, terms, and now we see Samsonov running with it. My question to you, Steve, is what is a sufficient time to allow a goalie to work on something? Is it like, can he do it in three days, five days, a week before you're comfortable

for him to go back in? Because the Leafs have Ottawa on Friday, Washington on Sunday, and then the Boston Bruins Wednesday before they go into a massive break here. How long can a goalie need to correct something? It's a lot like that movie Money Pit. Two weeks. Everything's two weeks.

The plumber will be back in two weeks. It's funny, that comes up a lot, right? You know when you come back from a long injury, how long does it take? It always takes a couple of weeks. I remember having this conversation. This is a name drop here, but Peter Forsberg, I got to spend some time with him in Sweden after I retired with Marcus Dazlet and had the same conversation,

coming back with his different foot injuries. He's like, man, two weeks afterwards, I felt up to speed. I just had to get through two weeks. I feel it's the same way to break habits or to gain new ones. So to me, it's that. And that's the hardest thing, fellas, about training a goalie in season. There's always, I remember one of the top guys, I think it was Mitch Cohen said this to me, where you end up doing about 90% of what the goaltender wants you to do and about 10% of what you should be doing because you can't really mess and tweak too much. You can't during a season. So a lot of that is

oftentimes just really being very careful with what you are changing in season. And that's why I wonder about goalie development. I wonder about player development because the NHL player development staff, quote unquote, isn't available and allowed to work with you through the summer that's the only time you can really break away bad habits yeah well that's interesting and obviously uh for the team they're playing tonight makes a big difference for them is the success they've had in their crease last year the rangers 110 points think there was like a 670 winning percentage very good team this year behind that pace a pretty good clip. But coming on of late, do you see a lot more to be excited about the Rangers

feeling like this is a team that still has cup aspirations? Yeah, you know what, Borny? I was looking at this earlier today. After 47 games this year compared to 47 games last year, they've only had one more loss. Wow. So they're not really that off. They're off on their OT and

shootout points, and they're also off because they've lost eight games against non-playoff teams. They've just blown eight games. It's a lot like covering the Leafs. In a lot of ways, I always wonder about this, fellas. I'm wondering about expectations. Why

is it so hard to meet expectations the years after you have success? And that's what the Rangers have gone through. And up until December 5th, man, the playoffs were in doubt. But they've gone on a run since December 5th and played great hockey. But it's a lot about expectations. You guys have watched Drive to Survive, right, on Netflix? Yes. Have you seen out right now, it is Breakpoint.

The tennis one? Yeah. I haven't seen it, but I saw it. Phenomenal. Golf one coming out, by the way. Well, that one's good. See, these are the looks that hockey needs, right? And I know you guys had your thing with the Leafs,

but I want to bring this up because Andy Roddick comes out in the first interview, and he's one of the main characters, and he's won a lot in his career. He's won a Grand Slam. He's won 32 times. The first thing that comes out of his mouth is the hardest thing to deal with in sports is expectations. It's fun before the expectations begin. And he goes on to say,

my feeling is the hardest thing collectively to manage in pro sports is expectations. And I'm sitting there, and I'm like, isn't that the truth? Like, that's where it gets hard. And Kipper knows the years in New York where you guys were President's Trophy winning team. You don't make the playoffs. And then you're President's winning. Were you President's Trophy in 94, Kipper, as well?

Yeah, we were. Yeah, so, like, you saw it. What happened in between? You know, the expectations. I guess there was learning there. Do you know why the real Kipper and Bourne show is so good? Because no one expects anything above

our heads right now in the Rogers building. Zero. Zero. Low expectations help our show, Valley. Lowest. Not true. Not true. You guys know how I feel. We're joined by Steve Valliquette, analyst for the New York Rangers, MSG.

Specifically, we're talking about a 15-4-2 record to speak of since December 5th for the New York Rangers. So what has worked right? The lines, has he got the right mix now? Trochek, not a ton of chemistry with Panarin. Is he now finding a fit? Yeah, no, I'll start with the goalie, and I'll work my way through quickly.

Shusterkin, he's right back to where he was last year with the exception of one thing, for whatever reason. He's given up bad goals more often than we saw last year. Eight right now up until this point this year that he's allowed, and he only allowed eight of all of last season. So if there was one step back for him, it's just been maybe the expectations of being a Vesna guy and carrying that load and burden.

Every night when you're the goalie too, guys, when you're the opposing goalie, you know who you're up against. You wouldn't believe how good the goalies have played against the rangers this year so it seems like every night somebody's the game's first or second third star so there's been uh that bit of a battle but the team is either fifth or sixth going into tonight's game and goals against so that's not an issue the d this d is awesome i think this d is terrific the team d uh as far as their six, Keiondre Miller, wait till you see this guy play. What a player. So good. So dynamic. He's always a threat on the rush. He'll go right up on every play. But the cool thing about this guy is he's so

long and he's such a great skater. He always gets back. And one more time, I guess, from my perspective, when I was playing, I always hated when the defenseman that never scored on me in practice would be joining the rush in the game. I'd be like, what's this guy doing? That's terrible. What's the point of this? He's so easy to stop in practice.

He's never going to score, and he's slow getting back. Well, that's not the case with DeAndre. So he's that elite, and Trouba's brought his game around. He's handling the captaincy really well right now. Fox is out of this world he's he's not a great skater but i don't mean that in a way that i just want to say that he actually outperforms everything you may see with his head he's just that good and uh so they've got a great group uh the third line tonight it most likely will be trocek bc and goudreau and uh before

before crider was hurt, he was playing there, and that was the best we saw Trocek go. He right now has the worst shooting percentage in the NHL on his scoring chances. He's had tons of chances. He's performing about nine goals less than what he should.

We'll see how it works for him. He's not really fit with Panarin yet, but they're going to load up the first line, and Zibanejad, Panarin, and Kreider, they're a handful. They'll be really good, and the kid line has been pretty good. They're better together than separated. So the matchup up front, as we know, you guys have the top-heavy team. You guys are the guys with the upper body in the gym, upper body only.

So you guys will be good. And piano legs on defense you know the matchup will be good it'll be good it will be good and just last one for me uh obviously uh really appreciate the breakdown on this team i mean i feel well prepared for tonight's game but there was you know some tension with lafreniere once upon a time here you know how have things shaken out with him and his coach and his ice time, and where is he at? Yeah, I've got to be careful on this one, Barney.

I've had a few warnings recently. So next question, please. Okay. Well, we will keep an eye on him. That's an answer in itself. We'll take it. So I should skip whether or not not i'm gonna ask you whether uh gerard galant uh you know this is uh still got a long-term future with the new york rangers because

sometimes it seems like uh the finger gets pointed at him when things aren't going well but it just seems to be a good fit right now for everyone. No, I think that, you know, everything went sideways up until, you know what it really was. It was just losses. Back to expectations. They lost fellas against San Jose, Columbus, Detroit, Anaheim. They lost back-to-back Ottawa, Chicago. And then the team got their collective head out of their ass.

And then they changed it around and everything changed. And it came from a comeback. They were down by three. They ended up winning 6-4, coming back in the third period versus St. Louis. They've been terrific since. A big point of that catalyst, though, is the D. The D, guys.

Oh, and Kipper, told you I came prepared. I looked this up. I texted you this, and I went to the league, and I wanted to find out, because I listened to Off the Rails Fridays with Doug McClain. I'm playing. One of my favorite segments.

And we talked about how Doug brought up on the show 150 points by the D-Core. That's what you need to get into the Stanley Cup playoffs. Last year, only one team didn't have 150 points from the D. That was the Los Angeles Kings. This year, the Rangers already have 117 points from their D. They're tracking to well over 200. So if there's as strong as some of the names are up front,

it comes from the back end. And Shusterkin almost scored on a one-timer Monday versus Florida. A one-timer. The puck came at the net, and he went down, didn't stop it. Usually we field it with the glove behind and one knee down. He one-timed it. It went over everybody, and he missed it out by six inches at the empty net. It was unbelievable.

NHL first if that happened. And the fans are waiting for Morgan Riley to get one. I heard that too. Yeah, so at any rate I thought that stat was neat oh one last thing on the stat we might have to put the numbers up because 25 of 32 teams last year had at least 150

points from their D wow I'm literally as you're talking counting up the Leafs total points right now I don't think they're there we're not close to 100 no wow okay we're gonna find that out though yeah so doug mcclain was right off the rails is on point don't tell him that don't worry doug's not listening no he's listening he's a quiet listener too i believe for sure i like i loved his line the

last time hey guys i love listening when i'm on that was good hey steve always a pleasure man when i'm on there you go there you go we got that one tucked away when we need it uh enjoy the game tonight okay it'll be fun always a pleasure having you on our show pal all right fellas keep it up talk to you soon thanks valley steve valicat what a oh my god is he ever fantastic if you were going to have guests come on your show regularly you would play that interview and be like this is how you prepare to come on although we don't pay anyone anything so i guess you can't lecture them on how to prepare sammy that murray stat stinks sammy's been sitting on that for 20 minutes That's the number one thing that kills a team. 96 points.

When it matters. That's the number one thing that kills you. Tie game, battling, and your goalie lets one in. How often does that kill a team? It never just goes, ugh. Lets it out, then the next one goes in, you're down two. That's happened a million times in the game of hockey. Okay, so we're going to go to break,

and you're going to count up how far the Leafs are to that magic number. Derek Brandeo. He just said it. 96 points from the Leafs team. Under 100? 96. Yeah. 96.

Can I be honest? Way more than I thought. You know why it's way more? Me too. Mark Cierdano has a quiet 17. Timmons has a dozen. Yeah, it's true. me too mark giordano has a quiet 17 timmons has a dozen yeah it's you know like so let's all have one hall has 12 150 should be fine they should be okay yeah they'll get there sure and morgan morgan's got to go through a stretch when he

starts getting some bounces no there's zero goals he's on the first power play unit yes he's got yes he's gonna get a bounce now yes going in i think i might put a couple bucks on a morgan riley goal tonight not a bad time to bet riley to score until it happens you can go 10 straight games and still come out ahead okay let's go to uh the break here kristin shilton's gonna be joining us nhl reporter we'll talk a little willie kneelander and what he might be looking at come July 1st on a new contract. Not this again. Not just me.

All right. Let's do it. Kristen. That and more after the break, including Mark Reckie in the second hour. Plenty more to chew on on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Leafs and the Rangers tonight. Wednesday night hockey. You'll be on Wednesday night Scotiabank hockey. Yes sir. I know you look as surprised as my family.

Yeah. Kind of ticked off that they didn't promote you on this social media. Who else is on the show? Carolyn Cameron, Jamal Myers, and Anthony Stewart. Yeah, I knew that. You know how I knew that? It was in the promo that they tweeted out. Thanks for having my back on that. Thank you. And you're nowhere to be found. That's just some serious disrespect for my boy.

Yeah! Get him fired up! Next topic. You're nowhere to be found. That's just some serious disrespect for my boy. Yeah. Get him fired up. Next topic. Oh, by the way. Okay, we're going to get to Kristen, but I just want to say at the break, I had one of those Aunt Beth cookies. Oh, my God. Well, listen, I'm over here eating peanut M&Ms trying to make up for it. It was unbelievable. I don't care if Aunt Beth has hands like a Muppet.

I mean, it was fantastic. Seriously, that's the smallest bag I've ever seen. Get it on the rails here, will you? All right, all right. It's not Friday. Let's get it back on the rails. Kristen, I'm so sorry. I really enjoyed all of what I just heard.

So thank you for entertaining me for the last 90 seconds kristin shilton is joining us nhl reporter for espn does a terrific job and uh i don't know why she agrees to come on our show but uh we thank you we thank you for that maybe it's a charity feel for you but whatever the case is we're glad you're aboard so um just want to start off because i did mention it going to break uh willie nylander and the season that he's having and it's still a little quiet but you know with so much focus right from probably the off season on austin matthews austin matthews is he kind of quietly come under the radar here with a great year and knowing that he's eligible to renegotiate July 1st?

Yeah, you know, I think Nylander is having an incredible season for a lot of reasons, but, you know, we didn't talk as much about him going into this year just because I think the incredible times 10 season that Matthews had last year just really dominated the conversation around Toronto's forwards and you're seeing Mitch Marner I think even under the radar you're seeing William Nylander flying under the radar a bit and obviously there is you know those financial elements coming up especially for Nylander and of course his contract has been this constant source of debate and conversation. Is he overpaid? Is he underpaid? Is he, you know,

as his contract, you know, somehow hamstrung the lease and not being able to make other moves. So I'm sure he takes a lot of pride just in his individual game, but there's also got to be that little side of him right now. That's like, yeah, you know, when we go back to the negotiating table you know if you thought before that um you know the deal that he got was uh was big you know you'd have to think he's going to be looking for a raise as well based on how well this season has gone and when you really think about the adaptability of the least top six as well just look at you know sheldon Keith being able to go back to Matthews and Marner.

It's because of Nylander and because he's playing so well, you don't have to worry that the second line is going to suffer without Matthews or Marner on it. And that's a huge, huge thing when you can, you know, make up for that problem that they've had in the past, just because of how good Nylander is. So on every level this

has been just a great campaign so far for him. Kristen here at Sportsnet last year preparing for the trade deadline they came to me and asked me to do some feature videos on some of the bigger names and that included Andrew Kopp and Nick Paul this year it feels like there's some bigger names available out there whether it's O'Reilly or Tarasenko you know Bohorvat does it feels like there's some bigger names available out there, whether it's O'Reilly or Tarasenko, you know, Bohorvat. Does it seem like this year there is an inordinate amount of huge names who could change teams? Are you hearing a lot of action this year? You know, there's a lot of names,

but there really doesn't, from the conversations that I've had at this point, the action has not been engaged at this point. And I don't think that's surprising. It's still a flat cap world. There are still teams that want to see what happens over the next month or so before they potentially go after a really highly prized or a very, you know, top end rental. And in a lot of these cases, these would-be rental pieces.

They're players that have had a lot of success in the league. They're veterans who will hopefully, if you're them, they're looking for a place that they can land and have some playoff success this year that also allows them to showcase their talents and potentially work that into a new contract, what could be the last big contract of their careers. So there's multiple layers, I feel like, to the trade deadline this year,

just in terms of when you look at some of those teams at the top, like if you're looking at a Bruins or a Carolina or a Toronto, A, how much are you willing to invest in what could potentially just be a rental piece? And B, how soon do you want to go after those players? If you're Toronto, for example, I would think you would want to get whatever trade work that you had in mind done kind of early because you would want that player to get into the system as quickly as possible and actually be able to have an impact as opposed to waiting until March.

And then you try to pick up one of these big names that you mentioned, and it takes time. Even the most professional veteran, I mean, you come into a new room, you're learning a new system, it takes time. So I do think that there is a maybe disproportionate number of bigger names out there, but I don't know yet if that will translate into a larger number of actual trades that happen or if there will be a lot of movement. A, because of salary cap. B, just some of those top teams that might target those rentals. You have to balance.

Do I want to go all in and go after the Bo Horvat, for example, or the Ryan O'Reilly, or do I like what I have? Is the chemistry good? Do I not want to mess with that? It's a balancing act. And I do think that the cap will continue to have an effect on how aggressive some of these teams want to be. But I am as curious as anyone to see when they're going to shift into a bit more of a buy, buy, buy kind of mindset because that's always the most fun. We're joined by Kristen Shilton, who does terrific work for ESPN.

And Kristen, you're absolutely right. That flat cap is coming into play here with all these names. And, you know, come March 3rd, you could see a lot more supply than demand based on a few things. The Boston Bruins, do you find them intriguing here when you are up historically against the top teams in history

over the course of a regular season? What are the odds of them making a major change to what seems to be like perfect chemistry? You know, I just was actually having that conversation the other day about what is the right, and I just talk about balancing act, but what is the right formula when you're as good as Boston is right now, when it feels like up front they've got the depth that they wanted. On the back end, they've got unheralded defensemen having great seasons.

They have a terrific goaltending tandem. Jim Montgomery has been absolutely excellent sliding behind the bench. Everything is kind of in place for Boston. So when you think about some of the comments that Don Sweeney made most recently, just saying you want to be aggressive, you want to add if you need to, but what does that aggressive look like? And how aggressive are the Bruins going to be willing to go? Are they going to target a top-end piece?

Are they going to give up a top-end piece? Are they going to give up, you know, whatever asset they would have to because they feel so strongly about trying to win one more for Bergeron and trying to win one more for Crecce and those guys that have given them so much over the years. Is that the right play? And you just have to be so careful because in order to, if you're Boston, yes, you don't want to disrupt the chemistry. You don't want to bring somebody into that room or into that lineup that changes what's made them so successful.

But then you don't want to look back with regret and think, you know, we didn't get out of the second round or we didn't, you know, we lost in the conference final. And would it have been different if we just targeted that one guy that could have made our top six that much better? You know, there's always those conversations that you're going to have, and it comes down to, I think, just trusting your team and trusting, you know, if they can manage having someone else come in. And you have to be confident in who that player is going to be because I don't think that based on their cap situation and what they have

in the pipeline that they would want to you know potentially damage themselves in the near future with a contract that they can't carry but at the same time you know Boston just this feels like such a huge huge opportunity for them you don't want want to beat Tampa. That team that is so good in the regular season and then just flops in the first round like they did in 2019, you don't want that to be what's coming, and you want to safeguard against that at the trade deadline if you can. But I don't know. I just think I look at Boston, and I'm like, I have no notes.

You may be a bottom six winger, maybe Ivan Barbashev, but I don't think that you need a top player or another top player, I should say, in order to really find the success that they're projected to have going into the eventual postseason here. Kristen, looking around, that's the successful end of the NHL. The other end is the Vancouver Canucks and what they've just been going through with the replacing a head coach fun to get everyone's take on this why do you think what are you hearing about why it all went

down so messily why was this such a disastrous situation for Vancouver the front office the fans and all involved you know I think that there's a lot of cooks in the kitchen in Vancouver. And when you're, when you've got a lot of strong voices, you've got a lot of executives with experience. I think everybody kind of wants to be heard. Everybody wants their opinion involved. And when that happens, you kind of can see that result where it comes out disjointed and it comes out like we weren't all on the same page about what was happening.

And there wasn't a sort of linear, maybe enough chain of command there to say, like, here's who's going to make the decision and here's the decision that's going to be made and here's when we're going to do it. And this is not something that's going to go on and on because you just, it didn't feel like a streamlined process. It felt like everyone had to put their opinion in and have their say and try to, you know, fix a problem that didn't really need to be a problem. Because if Jim Rutherford was coming in and there was going to be a sort of changing of the guard in the Canucks front office, then if at that point they knew, and it sounds like that could have been the case, that they knew that Bruce Boudreaux was not going to be the guy, then that decision needs to be made. It needs to be made, it needs to be wrapped up, and you need to move on from it. Because

what happened in the end is you just put two really good coaches in bad positions, whether it's talk it coming in to this whirlwind of bad PR or Boudreaux, who's leaving in the most, you know, just the most awful cringeworthy way possible. It just didn't have to be that way. And I think if you had to boil it down, it was just a lot of different voices and opinions and people trying to line up, you know, the right way to go about it. And it just ended up being a total mess because if you're not on the same

page and you're not willing to make that, you know, make that hard decision at the time it needs to be made, it just drags on and there's never a good time. And that's the thing. It's like in any breakup, in any relationship, it's really easy to just, everybody keeps pretending everything's fine until at some point you're like, oh, hey, you know, it's over and it's awkward and no one's happy. And it just didn't need to be that way. So that's, you know, kind of my, my read on it. I think Jim Rutherford's comments is saying that, comments saying that I'm just not going to talk at all anymore

probably speaks to that same feeling of they just need one voice. They need one voice. They need one streamlined communication pathway. And if nothing else, you just hope that Vancouver kind of learned a lesson here and also maybe other teams as well. Kristen, you've been around long enough to maybe kind of know that Vancouver market. And is it as simple as Jimmy Rutherford saying a few words like that? Or is there a chance that this vibe won't die down anytime soon for Rutherford or Talkett.

How do you see this playing out in the next few weeks or right to the deadline? You know, it all comes down, I think, to what happens on the ice because it's just, you know, winning can mask everything. That's the thing is that if you can get some momentum going, if you can, you know, if Talkauket can breathe some life into this team and you see them have a little bit more success. And I think that kind of covers all manner of ill,

is that if Tauket can get the most out of some of these players that maybe the fan base have seen as disappointing or underperforming or just players that maybe haven't been giving enough. If you can just get everybody on a better page, it just comes back to that. It's on the same page, but it's just start a new chapter. And at that point, the front office stuff kind of fades into the background. There's going to be something that happens with Bo Horvat here at some point. Will there be other trades i guess we'll

see but for right now just focus on winning and focus on giving your team some or sorry your fan base and your players and your the whole organization just something to feel good about and i think that's where all of those other where they've talked the talk they've they've made their explanations and they've had the conversations, they've made their explanations, and they've had the conversations. And so now it's just time to just play hockey. And I think that's where the players find their reprieve, obviously, in the game.

And it's where the fan base wants to see the improvements. That's why the change was made. It was a hockey decision, according to everyone, that this was going to be a way for the Canucks to improve. You know, that's I think all anybody wants to see is that it was worth it to move, to talk it the way that they did and to, you know, make the change because they believe in what the results are going to be because of it. And I would just think that that should be the focus that Vancouver has. Make some good decisions at the trade deadline, even if that's a seller mentality, and try to regroup whatever sort of goodwill you can from this season based on how you play on the ice. Kristen, always a pleasure having you on the show,

and you're so generous with your time. I'm going to have Derek Brandeis mail you an Aunt Beth's cookie. I can't wait. You made them sound so good. Thanks for what you're having today. We appreciate it. Kristen Shilton, ESPN.

I was going to ask you something here. The GM of the St. Louis Blues is Doug Armstrong. The GM of the... you can go through the teams you know who you know now you got the Montreal Canadians who have Jeff Gordon is the president right or director of hockey ops or whatever his title is and then

Ken Hughes is the GM and in Vancouver you know Rutherford is doing all this then Patrick Elvin's kind of the GM what is the deal with the changing structure do you do you see the NHL going to this more where there's like, it feels like they have the power, the presidents here, to make the decisions, and then the GM again, like Alvin is like.

Look no further than the Toronto Raptors here, with Masai Ujiri as the president and Bobby Webster as the GM. But everyone refers to Masai as the guy who runs it. Right, and makes the decisions. But Bobby Webster is the GM. It's a weird dynamic. There's just one boss. There's one guy in

charge. Right. And it's Messiah here in basketball, and it's Jimmy Rutherford in Vancouver. And ultimately, you assume that Gorton is the guy in charge in Montreal,

but... He doesn't speak French, so they made him the president. Oh, well, I mean, let's just set that aside for a second, is that you have to have your idea of what kind of structure you want, and you have to empower people around you. agree with that and right now alvin's not empowered no neither is um he was uh no hughes is oh okay no hughes is but i was just gonna say uh they've got assistant general managers in vancouver cammy granato and Emily Castingay. Not empowered. So, it's all in the boundaries

that your president sets. Jimmy is making phone calls. Jimmy is doing deals. Jimmy decides. Is this a Seinfeld episode? I was just about to say. Right? Jimmy makes trades. Jimmy makes trades.

Pure Dorian does. Montreal? Ken Hughes makes calls. right jimmy makes trades jimmy makes trades pure dorian doesn't pure dorian that's right montreal yeah ken hughes makes calls he does jeff gordon's not the guy great and that's where like you're empowered yeah now weird situation when you come in as a first-time gm say sure call me a gm at the end of the day it might still be a little frustrating for other teams, depending on who's making the calls for them, to say, okay, you know, we've presented you something, and then I don't know in terms of how much empowerment is involved for Ken Hughes to say, yeah, we're going to do this deal, and I've got the authority to do it. Well, you hate the idea, like, let me just ask mom and dad if I can make that trade.

And that's just it. Like, are you just dealing with a runner right now right because it's going to get to crunch time march 3rd and teams are not going to have the patience to watch you run back and forth with a little note like you're in grade six right just let me talk to the person who makes the decisions i really like her can you pass me this note i talked to the manager the actual manager how much of that happens here with Kyle and Shannon? You will have to be in a position to get deals done quickly, possibly on trade deadline day,

and just give me the decision maker right now. I know. And so, Sammy, I don't think at all, until I wonder if this year is different, with Kyle not having a contract beyond this year. How can it not? There's no way it can't like it doesn't affect it well and so what a different situation then if suddenly he goes you know yeah i know i've made all the decisions up till now but hang

on i don't know if i can move that first until i talk to my you know that's different i would believe that kyle cannot do a thing without a stamp of approval from Brendan Shanahan. And if we're talking something of a larger degree, the board. Really? Really. Come on. What do you think? Call Larry Tannenbaum and ask him about what he thinks of the stick positioning of Gavrikov?

100%. By the way, love Larry T of Gavrikov? 100%. By the way, love Larry Tannenbaum. No disrespect. 100%. Okay. You don't think right now Austin Matthews eligible

to be signed July 1st? Larry Tannenbaum's not involved in that? Are you crazy? That's a different thing. Big business, big dollars. That's a different thing. That's over 100.

So is two first-rounders to make a trade. Kipper, the two first-rounders versus $100 million contractor, two very different conversations, in my opinion. No? We're talking about deals that could affect making making the playoffs in three or four years five years which is millions and millions of dollars i see your point are you are you nuts right now i'm not nuts but i think that i think 100 they want to be involved in the future of their franchise of course when when you've got a guy that's been in charge the last little while

and you can't get out of the first round. Then I wonder if that would make the guy who's been in charge up till now feel more like, what am I doing here? I'm sure there's been many nights he's gone to bed asking that question while he would probably behind the scenes still be pushing for an extension. Like come on. He's got that.

He's got a top five team in the NHL right now. Again, that seems to be set up to compete. Why wouldn't he be asking for an extension now? Why would I, I don't want to wait unless he doesn't want to wait. You know what I mean? Cause he's not, I don't believe that for one second. Yeah want to wait. You know what I mean? Because he's not sure about what's happening here.

I don't believe that for one second. Yeah. Not one second. Likes it here. Yeah. Family. That's true. Kids.

Two young kids in school and stuff. He's made an emotional investment in the leaders. The lack of the Jews, huh? The lack of the Jews. He wants to stick around. He wants his extension yesterday. He'll only leave if the job at Sault Ste. Marie opens up. But just to bring this conversation full circle,

I believe that everybody's on board right now going into this trade deadline. The most important one for Kyle and the organization in the last six years is what it looks like and what are what's at risk here the more we kick it around though the more i wonder what it has looked like the approval process in past years to trade a first for whoever if it has in fact involved higher ups or how much i'm sure sure Shanahan has been involved in those things. I don't believe every single move needs to go and get a stamp of approval from the board of directors. Right. But when you're talking about really.

Gino Meyer? Yeah, those are big. The guy with the $10 million qualifying offer? Would Kyle at all entertain Eric Carlson?lson we're talking about 40 plus million left on his deal can you get san jose to eat 50 of it would now you look if you can get san jose to pick up 50 it's essentially taking muzzin's contract off and putting Carlson's on. I just am so mind blown every time you bring up this contract. It's just so unkipper.

But that just doesn't begin and end with Kyle Dubas. Yeah. That's a big decision that can affect the franchise for 10 years. Yeah, and I would love to know what those different relationships look like throughout the nhl you know like i know tom dundon would have some say in what happens in carolina i know that for a fact as do you you know i don't know that it's the same in st louis or washington with brian mcclellan or you know go around the league at some of the bigger more powerful gms who do they have to go to, and is it anyone? Well, you're talking about spending their millions, not your own.

Mr. Leonsis, I would like to spend $50 million of your money. Yeah, you may want to run that by Ted. Maybe. Just let me know. Shoot me a text. See a heads up. And then the owner listens to his neighbor or his barber telling him he's crazy. And that's when things get

off the rails that's when it's off the rails friday yeah it's off the rails season barber told me that you know that yeah samson off he should maybe get a new contract what do you think he's fantastic he's having a great year seven years you're right i never thought of that yeah we should get samson off for seven yeah anyways. Anyways. Okay. We're going to take a quick break. Mark Reckie, Stanley Cup champions is going to come on board and talk a little Rick Talkett and some of the challenges still facing him, not only for the rest of the year, but maybe the next few.

Yes, sir. Mark Reckie, Stanley Cup champion. After the break, you're watching and listening to Real Kipper and Born. Breaking down the top stories in hockey and Elliott Friedman every day. The Jeff Merrick Show.

Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590, The Van. Always great when we get guests that have been around the game a long time, both as a player now. Mark Reckie's been behind the bench as well. And now wrote a terrific article on Rick Tockett and the challenges that he may face in Vancouver. Let's bring in the wrecking ball now. Rex, how are you?

Hey, good, Nick. Justin, how are you guys doing? We're well. Terrific piece as well. I don't know if you know this, but I'm writing a few articles too. Bunch of journalists out here. Yeah, we're giving... Yeah, yeah.

I got to give Dan Rosen a little bit of credit. When it comes to spelling and punctuation. Pretty much so, yeah. Well, listen, I read it. I really enjoyed it. Certainly, your history with Rick Talkett shows a lot in this article. And correct me if I'm wrong, but you guys were originally traded for each other, correct?

Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, 92. Did you guys like meet in the hallway? Now, you didn't really get to know him, though, until you were basically teammates again in the early 2000s. Well, I actually got to know him actually not long after we got traded um i went back to pitcher i was still you know kevin stevens and the whole crew and they were all tight and then they won in 92 um and then you know i met him and then you know we kind of hit it off right from the get-go really

um you know so it was uh you know, something from there. And then, you know, obviously when you play together, then you get an opportunity to play together years down the line. And it's, you know, it's pretty neat. So you guys had a relationship, and so you have a fundamental understanding of the man. What should people expect from, you know, what does Rick Talkett prioritize in a hockey team?

Well, you know what? He's going to communicate. He knows how to communicate with players very well. He's going to be structured. They're going to end up being a real structured team that is hard to play against. And he's going to have a say in and you know what type of players he wants to keep around and what type of players he wants to bring in and

and i think that's important for a coach and i think you know what with obviously having a relationship with management before they know rick well they know the type of person he is and and the type of players he likes and and i think they want to build that identity as a team and and the culture and and that's what i think they're to build that identity as a team and the culture. And that's what I think the biggest thing for them is bringing Rick in for that matter. Mark, you write about player-coach relationship and particularly how a guy like Toc may have to go in there and focus on the core players. I mean, you were one of those guys as well.

Speak to that and maybe, you know, even in your career, which head coach did you find it easiest to build that type of relationship with? Yeah, you know, he's got to figure out who the guys are in that room that are going to buy all in with him and meet him 50-50. It's not going to be easy. It's going to take some time. There might be some younger guys in the waiting that need to be the guys that are going to step up.

Obviously, you've got JT Miller, you've got Bo Horvat, who are obviously guys who are experienced and leaders in their own right right now. He's going to have to find out what group, that core group is for him. I was very fortunate. I had lots of good coaches that I had great relationships with and communicated very well with. Roger Nielsen was one of the you know he was one of the better ones bob johnson early in my career um god i could go down the list i had a lot of coaches so um you know it's it's great to have

that you need that and you know as a coach you know you need you need to let the you know you need to find those leaders and you need and nick you know as well you need to let those guys lead in the dress room and take control of the dress room you can't micromanage you have to let you know you have to let that uh take its part and uh you know when you when you get a strong enough room that can happen so what have you seen over the course of your career in the evolution of player-coach relationships? You know, I feel like, you know, my dad played for Al Arbor and used to, you know, basically say that he didn't hear anything. You know, you played on the line, you were told, and you didn't ask questions. And that was just the way it was.

Now, you know, working a little bit with the Marlies, seeing guys come into the room every day and say, well, how come I got taken off the PK? You know, like, what have you seen in terms of how things have evolved? That's exactly, you hit it right on the nose. When we, you know, back when, you know, we started and, you know, in the late 80s and 90s, you just, hey, you didn't have a lot of communication with, you know, head coaches and, you know, assistant coaches were probably more their buffer than anything. But the head coaches, they were there and they were demanding and you didn't ask questions you just did what they asked and and uh now there's now there's a

50-50 game where you have to you know you have to work with each other like they want answers they want you know they want to know why you want you know they you want them to do this they want to know why you wanted to play this system they they want those answers and and you know you got to be ready to give them to them. And it's just a different era now, and it's a, you know, whether it's good or bad or, you know, whatever, you know, that's the way it's evolved. And it's, you know, somewhere where, you know,

you just have some say in the room, but you better buy all in if, you know, once you get to that relationship. We're talking to mark recce three times stanley cup champion uh eighth all-time in games played 16 29 now for rick talk it uh you know a lot of success in pittsburgh behind a bench but uh it's gets a little easier when you can look at 87 uh leading the way and sid crosby right now he's got a captain in Bo Horvat, who's having a terrific year, but knows he's on a limited time here.

Does that make that challenge that you're talking about a little harder on Rick? It does to a certain extent, yes. But I mean, I think they're both, you know, he's going to have Bo's best interest at heart. And, you know, Bo, I have Bo's best interest at heart and uh you know Bo I don't know Bo as a person but you know he's got to know that Rick's in his court and he's going to know that and so he's going to buy all in until you know that day comes whether he gets traded or not you know he's going to buy all in and and I think Rick's going to treat him that way

Rick's going to treat him like he's part of it and um you know he's part of the you know the group right now and and uh make him feel like he's the you know he's the captain and and go from there and see what happens that's all you can do at this point for rick and i think he'll handle they'll have both handle it very well so this time of year you know don't want to call it quite the dog days yet maybe it's a bit of the dog days but you know you've been a part of enough teams you just mentioned eighth all time and in games played you know how would a team like the Leafs find motivation right now Rex like it's just a really tough spot there they know they're playing Tampa is 50 you know 30 some games to go you know I guess that might be a leadership team way you

know how did you keep yourself motivated during times like this yeah Yeah, it really is the dog days right now of, you know, the time. You know, fortunately, they got a week off. There's these week breaks now, I think, which is going to help teams. Yeah. And it might help a team like the Leafs where they get a little bit of a break, get a little refresh, and they come back and they say, oh, man, let's focus on these last 30 games, doing everything right, going to the playoffs on a high note,

feeling good about ourselves, and then taking it from there. And hopefully they can make that playoff run from that point. Rex, today's coach, you know, Mike Sullivan, to me, is one of the top guys. I really enjoy what he's been able to do in Pittsburgh. John Cooper as well. But are there other names out there that you've watched from afar and admired? Yeah, for sure.

I've seen Bednar in Colorado. I know they won, but I just liked how he's handled and managed his team, especially through this right now. He had a lot of injuries early in this year after winning the Cup. I really like what he's done. I like the coach in Minnesota, Dean Avison. I think he's done a terrific job. I mean, there's a lot of good coaches out there.

And, you know, it's not an easy gig. It's a hard gig. It's demanding. But these guys are, you know, they all do a terrific job. So let me get this straight. The coaches, they don't walk in the room the same time as the players and leave at the same time as the players? Oh, man. I wish they could

say that. There's about an extra eight hours in that day. How about you? You want something full-time? You want me to start pushing your name out there? I'm okay for a little bit. I might want to get back

into management possibly, you know, do something like that. Hey, I've seen your career earnings, man. You are doing just fine. Hey, Rex. Thanks for doing this, man. Really appreciate your time as always. No problem, guys.

Great time. Have a great night. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. Mark Reckie wrote a terrific article. Sammymy that was uh nhl.com right yeah yeah on uh on rick talk it yeah so i don't feel like we talked a ton about the whole vancouver transition and now what like what what's a win for the canucks for the rest of the season? You don't make a move like this halfway through to not try to win. Right, but you're going to trade guys to lose logically now, right?

I think that Jimmy Rutherford has it in his mind that he can turn this thing around without sinking for two or three years. Can I just say that it doesn't reflect overly well on the vancouver canucks players that twice when they've changed the coach in the past two years they've immediately been better like i don't know i know they played chicago last night so maybe i'm jumping the gun on that but they outshot them 48 to 14 so is this a team when you're like, you can convince them to try? They're actually okay? That's what Jimmy Rutherford's banking on. Right.

That is the implication here, that this group is just like, yeah, they get disinterested, but when they try, they're pretty good. And we've never wavered on the fact that they are good enough to not sink to the bottom. And you know what else. They're just too good still. I feel like it's underrated. Everyone's talking about the Canucks and tanking and Conor Bedard and all that. If you

finish with the third worst record in the NHL, I think you have like a 9.5% chance of winning first overall, of getting the lottery ball for Bedard. And if you finish 11th worst, you have like a 3.5% chance. It's like 9-3. The chance is the same within all for bedard and if you finish 11th worst you have like a three and a half percent chance it's like nine to three like the chance is the same within a percent didn't gary betman talk about

that the other day when he insinuated that nobody tanks which you know if you ever want people to think you're an honest person don't say that did he did he get that did he get that one from one of his focus groups that he does yeah we pulled the fans and we found out. They love the glitchy board ads and they love hockey. They love it in Arizona where they can't sell out a game in a 5,000 seat state rank. I heard some things. It's like when people ask me, are you superstitious? And I say, no.

But why take any chances? I'm not superstitious, but let me just rub my belly and tap my head three times. That's what tanking is all about. It's like, I'm a competitive guy. You want to give me 1% more chance? I'll take it. Yeah.

No, I get that. But don't you think the good glean from like starting to win and guys learning the system and feeling like there's a strong core to build on, like that's more important than 1%. Well, don't you think that, yeah,

I'm just going back to what Batman said, because I think it's so absurd and I want to dive into it. Does he, he's, he means probably the players that no one's tanking. That's no one's tanking. No, he's talking about coaches and owners and yeah.

He can't be talking about general managers, can he? He's talking about everybody. Well, that's insane. He has to make that claim. Yes, he does. So the league looks like it has integrity. There was an NHL team that traded for Peter Mrazik. I love that that's the example you use.

Not that other teams have traded good players willingly for nothing essentially trying to lose didn't peter marazza give up six goals and eight shots at one point this year i saw someone that he's let in like 68 goals and 15 starts or something like it's and jb you you nailed it if there was uh if there wasn't so many gambling partnerships i don't think gary would even comment on on it. You have to say everyone's trying to win every night or else your league doesn't have the ability

to be a gambled upon league. That's the boring and correct answer. The gambling one. It is. That's why I said it. Certainly a part of it. No, I think it's the whole thing. I know what makes me a little unwell

is the willingness of like knowing you're saying something people don't believe because you're a lawyer and that's the thing that drives your business best like that makes me a little sick like he knows that we know that that's not the truth but he's like we agree to be in on this lie together which we obviously don't but like it was true i just hate that it's gross it's almost it's like you know the salary cap thing It's gross. It's almost, it's like, you know, the salary cap thing. That's not great for fans, but. It works.

It works for the people that employ them. That employ them. So, same thing. Calling spades out here, boys. Wow. You know, there's some teams that, you know, are still finding ways. And I do believe that on some nights. You can beat anybody still you can't all of them you just can't make the playoffs that's that's what you can't do right

like you said the rangers have lost eight games to non-playoff teams elise have lost to montreal twice arizona's you know who's messing up arizona jacob chickering he's playing well and he's making them not as awful as they need to be he's really helping them they need to trade him he's playing well and he's making them not as awful as they need to be. He's really helping them. They need to trade him. He's too good. He's having a good year. If they don't get what they want, I think they're going to keep him. Because he's good and young.

And that's good to have on your team. We've been talking about how the Oilers are underachieving and now they're getting super hot. And are they into the third place in the pacific yet i think they're still in a wildcard spot behind seattle la they're two points back of seattle now for the last uh for the and three points out of second and four points out of first to me if you're kenny holland you gotta blow them away and get chicken oh Oh, I love that. I love that for them.

Yeah, I would agree. Like it's, it's just, it seems like such a perfect fit. Joel Edmondson. Wow. Edmonton, by the way, their next eight games, Columbus, Chicago, Philly, Ottawa, Detroit. It's better. Yeah. Like it's soft, soft schedule.

They've won six in a row. Kane is back and always missing one game. But like, I just bet on them today to win the pacific division i think they're a better team than vegas seattle la calgary too here they come jack hyman superstar interesting uh story ethan bear missing again because his dog died yep and you know this is one of those stories where, you know, you could see some people, I don't know if it's drawing a line to say,

okay, where does it begin or end? And, you know, Mark Spector has a really nice piece out on sportsnet.ca. If you get a chance to read it, it makes some excellent points on where we are as a society now. Whereas something like that years ago would just been unheard of. And you grew up with a dad who, you know, you just spoke moments ago about Al Arbor, about just shut up and do what you're told. Kelly Rudy told a story about not being able to go to the birth of his, I think his daughter.

You know, because of Al Arbor. Yeah. Like it just wasn't a thing you did then. Yeah. So, yeah. It is all, it's related to what we talked to Reckie about how things have changed. Now, does that just fall into, I mean, when we talk about, again, just society in general, there is a certain professional respect on mental health, and that's all a great thing.

But as an entertainer or a professional athlete, is there more pressure than, say, someone that just goes to work in general when someone's spending $ 300 on a ticket to go watch you perform yeah so today is you know i'm aware today is mental health awareness day for that company co-opted let's talk day which is great um that we do that for mental health and for bear it could be a combination of things i know his fiancee is getting ready ready to give birth to their first kid.

I know he was close to Gino Ojica recently passed. His dog passed. It's a lot. So if it's a mental health thing for him, for sure. You know, as a team, you just go, yeah, whatever you need. We need you to be well. You know, on its own, isolated. You know, part of it for me is that hockey is a physical sport.

And we physically do. There is a war element where you go to battle for your teammates you dive in front of pucks you know block shots you sacrifice yourself someone you know scrap in a quarter you go get in a fight for literal fights you get in literal fights on the ice and so there's this like team element of like you know being there for one another and i think when a guy you know it's got to be something serious to, to miss the game. And so, yeah, the conversation then is just, you know, what, you know, there's bereavement clauses for, for humans, you know, is, is there, is it okay when it's a dog and how, you know, I, it's a tough one to talk about because you don't want to be insensitive to Baron, what he's going through. Cause I don't

know what he's going through, but if one of my teammates said my dog died, I can't play tonight, I'd be like, okay. I get it. Yeah. No, no, for sure. And it's middle of January, and I'm not even going to say the pun, but you said it earlier. Wow. Right?

Yes, it is. It is the cat days of the season. Yeah, the cat days of the season. Yes. Yes, it is. It is the cat days of the season. And it's a little easier for that to be looked upon. Totally agree. But let's go to a conference final or a Stanley Cup final, and perhaps he's emotionally wrecked will we have the same sympathy for him in may or june when everything's on the line as we would probably not but probably he probably would play like i look that specter

article is good he talked about ryan probably would play right ryan nugent hopkins had a dog die between game four and five last year yeah played. And Spector made the point. He didn't play great. Could be related. You know, if it's going to affect the guy, do you want him in? I would say yes. You'd rather take a chance on getting 70 or 80% out of him than nothing. But that would be a selfish part of a coaching staff, a managerial staff, a season ticket holder.

There'd be a tremendous amount of pressure for him to go. Yeah, and if you say it doesn't matter, oh, he's the 6th D, it's game, whatever. Well, he's paid $2.2 million, and I think if you're saying to him, if you're saying he doesn't matter, you've got bigger problems. The team believes he matters, he does matter. He's an important piece to them. They've got him there for a reason. So it is. If it is mental health, you fully understand.

If it's grief, you fully understand. You know, people go through a lot of things and can't cast judgment on that. If it's just like I'm feeling sad because my dog died, that's a hard. But it's also really unrealistic to think that like no one's casting judgment right no i know that's what that's what people do still yes and they just have to do it a lot more quietly i just think there's a tactful way and maybe i've failed here today but to have a conversation about what's too much you know like my cat died last year during our our season and i did our show i was very sad yeah you know but that is not to say that it's the same

as what he's feeling in his grief and trying to sort through that is what we're discussing. But individually, you could look there and say, okay, it's just, it's one guy. What happens if four guys show up and their dog dies the same day? Do four guys not show up for work? Where is it?

Where is the line? Right. And listen, I've had a dog for 12 years. Ours has diabetes. I'm giving it insulin shots, 7.30 in the morning. You have Wilford Brimley as a dog? I have insulin shots at 7.30 at night. Do you really?

I cannot go 15 minutes late. My wife will kill me. This guy. What's your dog's name, Kipper? Tucker. Tucker? Yeah. Oh, that's nice great handle the mother tucker as i refer to him you know e from entourage his dog's name is gillies what i'm telling you this guy is like family like he's he's my he's you'd be crushed

same i'm like i got i got rid of three kids yeah and he's got louis the dog little wiener dog love him to death i got i sent three kids to school, and he's got Louie. Louie dog. Little wiener dog. Love him to death. I sent three kids to school, and now I got an infant named Tucker at home. But he's family. I get it. Yes. I get that emotional attachment. Yeah.

For sure. I actually get, like, there's little bit of moments where I, like, God forbid, picture the day that Louie dog croaks, and I'm like, oh, Jesus. I get it it does for sure it's heavy the thought goes through your mind you're like oh my god yeah what the hell am i gonna do would you come to work probably yeah yeah i would you got a dog uh i have had dogs i do not currently have a dog we have no cat both cats died within a week last oh my god because one got sad with the other one gone. Boring.

That's heartbreaking. Oh, it was awful. That happens to old people a lot, too. Yes. It was awful. My poor kids. Terrible. Anyway.

Do you guys want some stats? Are we done with death? Yes. You want some stats from tonight? Sure. All right. Save us. Play Yakety Sax or something.

Get some life in this show, would you? I'm just looking up tonight's stat pack. Willie Nylander. I wanted to find some stats. How is he against the Rangers? I don't have that in front of me, but I'm looking for... Nah, I've lost it. This is perfect music for me right now.

I had it in front of me, and I wanted to ask you a question. Oh, yeah. So, you know, among players with a cap hit below $7 million this year, Willie Kneelander's 56 points are tied for the fourth most in the NHL. Would you guys like to hazard a guess at the

other... Under $7 million. Yes. More equal to or just more than 56 points, sir? It is... There's four guys three guys with more and one guy who's tied with him okay and they're all under seven with sam so i have some idea kipper do you know i said pasternak good one number one he's making 6.6 and he has 69 points so far this year. Nice. He's going to double that. I don't know.

I can't think. There is two Edmonton Oilers on the list. Oh, Nuge. Yeah, good one. He's having a terrific year. More points than Willie by one. Yeah. He's having a really good year.

He's got 57 points. He's making 5.125 million. Oh, and your favorite player lemieux tage lemieux lemieux talk about value he's his new contract kicks in next season next season and it's um a steal right now for kevin adams well it's a steal it's whatever next year is this year is the ultimate so let's make a 1 $1.4 million. He's got 66 points. Talk about value. Value. And where's Hyman?

He's tied with Willie. He is tied with Willie. He's got 56 points, fellas. Yeah, that's wild. Yeah. I got another quiz for you. You ready? This is great.

William Nylander looks to become the sixth player from the 24, like you read that earlier, for the 2014 draft to reach 400 career points. He was selected eighth overall by the Leafs in that draft. Can you name any of the other players that have 400 points in that draft? This has, like, got to be the thing I'm worst at. Was Mikko Rantanen in there? Nope.

A different year? That was Marner's year. I don't, I don't even remember that year. I'm so bad at draft year, like, things. Who went first overall? That'll actually help me with who's in the draft. Leon Dreissel went third overall. It's the Aaron Eklad draft.

The what, sorry? Eklad draft? Does Eklad have that many points? No. I'm stumped. I can't even think. I'll read them to you. So Leon Dreissel has the most points from that draft with 689 points.

Pasternak, second. He was the 25th draft uh round he was the 25th overall pick 25 brayden point is third with 417 and he was the 79th pick 79 picks went by and they're like now i'll pass he what was called they thought he couldn't skate is that it yeah that was the knock? I gotta tell you, being a retro scout is the easiest thing in the world. I think some had issues with his skating. Wow.

He gets around pretty good out there to me. Sam Reinhardt, who was taking second overall, has 415 points. Which surprises me that he's that high. Me too. I think they've been very quiet. Can I just say, you know, I've just never been a big Reinhardt guy. He's fine.

I hate the way he wears his skates. I think that's what it is for me. It's a gear thing. Really? Yeah. I hate it. I just always see him as a secondary guy. Yeah.

Which is fine. Yeah, but when you're that high of a pick. You're hoping for a little more. Yeah. And Dylan Larkin has exactly 400 points. And then Willie at 399 next. Pretty good draft. Really good.

Wow. Yeah. A lot of good players coming in. And a lot of those names up for new contracts. Yeah. Dylan Larkin. Larkin, we know, is a local kid in Detroit. Mm-hmm.

And Stevie, I'm not sure he wants to give up the the cash just yet towards him yeah it's interesting you know i do get playing hardball with larkin because there is this thing where it's like he's from here and he's been good the only guy who's been the trooper through our lean years you know yeah you know but you don't want to back pay someone when you're trying to move forward you like to pay him for what you expect him to be worth right you don't have to go that far when it comes to steve eisenman trying to lock down a star is it stamkos yes and did pretty damn well but it steve had to take him right to the point where Stamkos is meeting the Toronto Maple Leafs before he came back. Right.

Yeah, they had to bring in the Canadian Tire guy to ruin everything, right? That's almost Stamkos. You know, the eyes have been calling his bluff, though. Go see what you can get. Did what happen? The Stamkos with the Canadian Tire guy was the mayor there. Is that true? There was a sense that the Leafs wanted to explore Stamkos, knowing that they wanted to keep the cap number down.

And the thought was that they were going to kind of make it up corporately. And showing him other ways that they can pay him. But that's got to be some sort of circumvention, right? That's an interesting point because... You know, if you're like, hey, Canadian Tire, give this guy two mil a year, we'll give it to you. If I'm not mistaken, Connor McDavid has a deal with Rogers. Oh, yeah.

He does. Right? So, I mean, no one's... MGM. But no one's calling that circumvention right i guess it's a little chicken and egg sort of thing here like if you say come you're a star and this is a major market we might have some good sponsorship opportunities for you how express can you make that sort of commitment to someone you know if you're able to raise a lot of money for them and then can you say to Canadian Tire,

hey, you don't have to pay for your board ads this year. No. Just, you know, just... I don't think for a second that the Leafs were prepared at that time to offer Sam Coase like $10 or $11 million. What did he end up with, $8? $8.5, if I'm not mistaken. Sammy, what's a cap friendly on Stamkos,

who scored his 500th goal last week? 8.5 for this year and next, then he's a free agent. Yeah. You know who else makes 8.5? Dreisaitl. Those are nice contracts. Yeah. Braden Point makes 9.5.

It's a great contract. And then they turned around, I think, a year later and gave Tavares 11. Sounds right. No, it wasn't the next two years two years yeah so two years i was convinced convinced that stamkos was gonna be a leaf convinced well as you should have been i was happening right he was things were falling apart in tampa he was coming up here yeah and then kipper did you that i remember that day

he signed and then the Subban. Oh, and Taylor Hall. Subban and Weber and Taylor Hall was all one day, wasn't it? When did you break one of those? It was like one hour. I did. I broke the PK Subban for Shea Weber. Yeah.

You know what's funny about that? Tell me. That was the first ever show that J.D. Bonk has hosted on this station. Really? That happened like 15 minutes before that show it's a pretty good show to launch that he it's tough and i i booked kipper on the show no way i texted him he didn't know the hell i was at that point but i texted him he came on the show with jd bunkus on his first ever i'm sure if you wanted to ever torture mr bunkus you play that

back for him but yeah it's a funny little I was at a Muskoka cottage and I had horrible reception were you shoveling snow up there like eating a hot dog on the July it's funny or no yeah a week before the training

camp we're in a free agency it was just before because P.K. Suban's contract kicked in i think a uh a no move uh going in yeah so it all had to happen right and they had to they had to trade them before i think uh july 1st you know if you're bunk like your first show it's he yeah plans you've been planning oh we had it like locked down you know like you're not you're bunk, your first show, you have plans. You've been planning. We had it locked down. You're not ready to be nimble

at that point. One more note on Stamp Coast, going down there and making eight and a half, which is still equivalent to ten and a half here. I think you're late on that. Eleven maybe.

Exchange is gross right now. So, you know, not to sound like Sammy and all his Leaf Nationers here, but there's a huge advantage for Tampa Bay with no state tax and cost of living and running as if they've got a $100 million salary cap. I think they should index the salary cap based on income tax in the state.

You should say we're a zero-income tax state, so you guys are more attractive for people. You know, you play in Montreal, you get a higher cap than everyone else. Here's a great what-if with four minutes left in the station. Would the Leafs have been better off signing stamkos and not the virus would they be would they have gone deeper now than they have they would have two and a half more million if he'd signed for 8.5 but if you're asking me yeah would i would i rather have today steven stamkos and john

tavarez yes i would tavarez has had some pretty good years here yeah yes no doubt would you trade Sammy, would I rather have today Steven Stamkos and John Tavares? Yes, I would. Tavares has had some pretty good years here. Yeah, yes. No doubt. Would you trade right now Tavares for Stamkos? Yes. You, Sammy? Yes.

Yeah, okay. So we're all in agreement. But contracts are a part of that. If I had to have Stamkos for $11 million or Tavares at $8.5 million, I think I want Tavares. So money's involved in that decision for me i would want tavara stamkos's contract as much yeah that makes sense because that's a you're talking about almost a top four defenseman big swing right yeah for a capped up

team so that's not the trade i asked you for i know i twisted it true or false the maple leafs have not been shut out this season and they were not shut out all of last season. True or false? False. True? True. They have the longest active streak of consecutive games without being shut out.

111 games, and next closest is 57. Going against Shusterkin tonight. Oh, boy. You did it. You jinxed it. I think I might end your streak. Incredible. I don't know.

We had Valley on. Says he lets up a stinker every game. That the streak. Incredible. I don't know. We had Valley on. Says he lets up a stinker every game. That's right. Yeah. So there you go. No shutout. Okay. Me and Borny both bet on Morgan Riley to score a goal tonight.

We did. And I'm going to bet Morgan Riley to score a goal until it pays me. There's 34 games left. That might cost me $340. I am not. I don't gamble. Okay. For free, you do on the Next Rewards app. I do, yes.

Which Kipper owns, of course. Yes. And NHL hockey's coming. Yes. Oh, exciting. Nice. Download it. Use my code Kipper19 and I'll give you 250 points towards your free cup of coffee. Damn near there already. So, you go on a website

and just put down $5 for morgan reilly to score it's that simple yep plus 600 i bet ten dollars on it that would pay me 60 if he scores tonight if he scores yeah or you lose 10 and i'm gonna lose 10 tonight and tomorrow night and the next night every night until he scores do you want to just give me ten dollars every day i'm fine with that too that's awesome i'm excited for tonight. It's going to be a good game. When I go to the racetrack and the teller gives me my ticket already ripped up. Just so you don't need this.

Yeah. Off-track betting. Fun time. So looking at the weather out the window, Kipper, are you going to the game? I am, yeah. Atta boy. It's Rangers leaves. It's two-year alumni.

You got to go. The New York Rangers have got a suite for all ex-Rangers. You're going as a Ranger tonight? In the area. We've really betrayed the show. I went as an Islander one night, and you're going as a Ranger tonight. We really messed up. Who wear leaf hats in here?

Can you divulge who's going or not? I think in the area, we've got Adam Graves, Glenn Healy. Gartner? Mike Gartner. Again, the weather's bad here, so I'm hoping to see some of my buddies. I hope people are safe on the road regardless, and everybody comes and goes as safely as possible. Yeah, it's crazy out there.

Everybody, if you're listening, drive safely. Austin Matthews, first 22 games, boys. He had 21 points. Last 24 games, 32 points. Is he going to heat up now? Oh, yeah. We're rolling now. His goals per game is way up.

Points per game up from 0.95 to 1.3. Okay, boys. Let me hear it. Prediction time. I'm going to say a 3-2 Toronto Maple Leafs win. That was the exact score I had in my head. With a Morgan Raleigh game winner. Give me the empty netter just so I'm different.

4-2. I'll go Rangers 3-2 then just to balance it out. All right. Looking forward to Chasler. Really looking forward to this game tonight. Big, fast, strong team like the Rangers. Huge challenge for the Torontoonto maple leafs quick quick before we go yeah tomorrow barry trotz on the show if you're looking forward to that

barry trotz and tune into leafs talk after the game tonight and if you're in the golf mood little patrick reed versus roy mcroy me and gunning recorded a golf show pod today find it on itunes all right thanks to steve valiquette, Kristen Shilton from ESPN, and Mark Recchi, Stanley Cup champion and Hall of Famer. Enjoy your night. Stay safe, everybody. And we're back tomorrow, Real Kipper and Born. Thanks for joining us.

Breaking down everything in Leafs land better than anyone. Real Kipper and Born. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.