Real Kyper & Bourne - Bolts' Backbone with Jon Cooper

Episode Date: October 20, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne & Sam McKee start the second hour with a look at how the Lightning have held up so far without Andrei Vasilevskiy. They are joined by Tampa Bay's head coach, Jon Cooper (4:40), who shares how backups Jonas Johansson and Matt Tomkins have fared in Vasilevskiy's absence, tougher competition around the Atlantic division, how he deals with wear and tear after several years of deep playoff runs and how he's evolved his coaching style over the years. Later, Jay Woodcroft quickly makes his way onto the hot seat, Connor Bedard's high usage to start the season and where Patrick Kane and Jesse Puljujärvi may end up. Finally, they answer your questions on the text line!The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

we are live on sports and sports at 650 in vancouver this is the national edition and this hour of real kipper and born brought to you by bet 365 two games on tap tonight calgary and columbus you can watch that on sports net one at 7 p.m eastern and the devil the devils on long island to take on the islanders nick kiprios justin barn sammy mckee and we wait for john cooper as he uh will be joining us momentarily and we'll talk obviously tampa bay and the challenges to get back to a stanley cup final or win the thing yet again the second most clipped show no coach on our show right we listened to him the second most after sheldon keith last year no question he we played a ton of cooper audio and he is good there. There is something about a Leaf-Tampa Bay playoff match

where we have access to him for two weeks, essentially. And then you're like, he is the ultimate dissection of a clip. Yes. Because he's... Calculating. Very calculating. He, to me, is like Lex Luthor with hairuther it's almost like he has a law degree or something and has practiced at arguing yeah bad night for you guys by the way bad night for

canadian teams last night other than the flames but most of them didn't do so hot oilers get thumped up in philly yeah winnipeg loses to LA. You know, they didn't lose to LA, but they lost. They lost to someone. Leafs lose. Someone else lost. Yeah. Canada, tough night. Do we expect Tampa to be there right in the thick of things?

Yeah. It's so funny, right? Oh, people predicting their demise. And you go, let me just check their stats. Kucherov, Hagel, Paul, Stamman points sorelli jano like surga chev maybe pretty good team still you guys think like vassy's gonna come back guys he didn't die yeah i think that's it's the buffer of them stick keeping their head above water for the time he's out that's that's easier said than done for two months and then without the big guy in that plus the time he's out. That's easier said than done for two months without the big guy in that.

Plus the time it takes for him to get back rolling, accommodated, will probably be another month. Like, it's going to be tough for them. He's going to come in three straight shutouts. Okay. He's Vasilevsky. He's the best goalie on the planet. Shosturkin, Sorokin, keep him.

Who do you want in the big game? So last night, I think it was Johansson against Vancouver Canucks. He gets the win. Tompkins I think we saw against Ottawa, and they lost 5-2. But can you imagine these two guys walking in the room every day or getting on the bus every day and looking at legends like Point and Hedman and Stamkos, and you're supposed to be the guy to hold the fort for these guys?

Can you imagine what that would feel like? You think the pressure's too much? I just feel like that. Yes, I think at times it can be. Those are future Hall of Famers. They're just not very good players or players that everybody expects to be good on some nights they're great they're like some of the best players in our history yeah no i mean there's a ton of hall of famers on that team

which is why they're still going to be okay how many hall of famers oh is this is stamkos a hall of famer he's obviously a hall of Famer. Is he? Oh, gosh. Are you kidding me? But like putting Point in the Hall of Fame already is, I think, a little strong. But anyways. Point's one of the best playoff performers in history. He's really good. He's really good.

Yeah. It's a little early. Headman's a Hall of Famer. Is Kucherov a Hall of Famer? Yeah, probably. I mean, he's won a Hart Trophy. He's won Stanley Cup. There's a handful.

They definitely feel like that type of team that you're going to look back on. Wow, look at all the Hall of Famers they had. No, it's pretty decent. Asleski's probably a Hall of Famer, too, I would imagine. Actually, yeah. Good point. God, there you go. So, yeah, I'm not quite willing to say, like, here come the Red Wings.

You know, like, all due respect to the Red Wings. Yeah. It'll look a lot of good young talent but no the division is is tampa's not done yet by any means so you think though uh those two kids can hold them well in well we can find out from their coach john cooper let's welcome in coop uh john cooper head coach of the tampa bay lightning coop thanks for doing this i know uh you're preparing for the Toronto Maple Leafs hockey night in Canada tomorrow night. But just, first of all, how are things going? We miss you.

You know, we miss a Toronto best of seven against you. Yeah, we screwed that up. It would have been nice to come back for another game. But, no, it's going well aside from some early injury issues we've had. We've kind of weathered them. And finding a bit of our game, we're just a different team now. And I'm not saying we're any better or any worse. We're just different.

And so it's been fun with a lot of these new faces. It's most definitely the biggest turnover we've had. But it's been a challenge. It's been a lot of fun with these guys. Okay, we were just having this conversation about a couple of goalies, Johansson and Tompkins, who are now your two mainstays. Just take me back, Koopa, a little bit

to the time that you actually found out that Vasilevsky was going to be out two months. Can you even describe the look on your face? Did you trash your office? Well, let's go

back to, what is it, game six back in Tampa. If you asked me then, the two guys you just named are going to be our goaltenders come opening night. I don't know what prop bet I would have had, but I probably wouldn't have won. But those

so it was weird because, you know, we lose that playoff series and you're just rattled. You know, we'd gone to three finals in a row, and this was just new to us, and it was tough. It was tough to deal with. And just kind of the way we went out, we didn't – you know, we lost those overtime games at home,

and it just – we thought we played pretty well. It just wasn't our time, and it was the Leafs' time, and they earned it we thought we played pretty well. It just was, it just wasn't our time and it was the least time and they earned it. And so good on them. But for us, you know, after usually I've, I don't like watching hockey right away because I've got probably a little bitter about what has happened, but it was weird after on this one, you know, after a few days I was just like, you know what? This team needs rest. And once, like, the sting wore off, you know what? It was something like, hope these guys go and rest their mind and rest their bodies because they deserve it.

And, you know, no more than the goalie who's, you know, just been a rock for us for how many years and all the games he's played. So he comes back, all these players come back a month early, and they're all, you know, they have those captain's gates and stuff like that, and everything's great, and everybody's in and on real shape. Everybody's excited. Everybody's rested.

And then I bet you, you know, right, I don't know, it was a day or two when training camp was going to start, and Vassie started having an issue. And we just thought, you know, like it's, you know, guys get little tweaks back there all the time. So I didn't even think of it. And then they came in and said, oh, no, no, this is a lot more serious. You know, when he went for the MRI or the test, whatever they do,

and this is big time serious as in this might be surgical. And then I just said, surgical as in a tweak in a couple of weeks or are we talking months? And they're like months. That was like, and then, uh, yeah. So it was,

uh, that was tough. But in saying that, I think for me, um, we've gone through this before. Like I've gone through this with Nikita Kucherov missing entire season.

Stephen Stamkos has pretty much missed entire seasons. Whether it was Ben Bishop or you don't go down the list. I even missed six weeks in 2016, I think. 16 or 18, one of those years.

This happens. I think maybe just being around as long as I have now and being with this group and understanding, you know what? You better expect the unexpected or, you know, you're going to be in trouble. And so, yeah, was this probably the most, you know, terrible news we could get? It was. But you look ahead now, and, you you know we're sitting at uh i guess pedestrian two two and one but our game like we've we've played on fairly well defensively i mean i know our numbers don't say it but the inside numbers borneo he'll understand what I'm saying here. Like, we've done some good things, and we feel, yeah, we've had some bad breaks,

and maybe we don't score as much anymore, but there's a lot about our team game we've really liked. And we think, hey, when the goalie comes back, we might be in better shape because of this. So that's the way I'm looking at it. So, Coop, in past years when you guys have had these injuries and you've been weathering the storm, it's kind of been like, you know, get in the playoffs and you're fine. It has sounded in the past that it hasn't mattered too much to you exactly where you get in. You just got to get in.

You're a good hockey club. How do you feel about the shifting landscape of the Atlantic Division? You've had a chance to look at the Red Wings, who are 3-1, the Sens, who are doing well. The Sabres have some good up-and-coming talent. You know, how have things changed around you as you guys sort of work your way back to the dance where you can do your thing?

Yeah. You know why those teams have good records? Because they played us. Oh, come on. It was a tough road trip for us. You know, I told the media today, like, you know, I'm not saying anything out of line, but for the last

how many years, you'd go on a trip like that and you'd be expecting to get points, and maybe all of them. And now you're going on that trip, and you're just hoping to get points. And it's impressive how the three organizations

um have worked and you know you can sit here and say oh well they've had high draft picks and they've had this and they haven't made the playoffs whatever you know what you still have to make the draft picks like not everybody's pick works and i even you know you can screw up those top 10 picks and but i'm looking at some of these kids on Ottawa and Detroit, and I'm like, wow. You just watch their development and how these guys have grown. And in Buffalo, they've got all those young guys flying around. And it's really cool. The problem is we're in their division.

So that's what makes it kind of uncool. And so that was a major awakening for us to go through those three games and only get one point. And, but it shows you what's gone on in this league. And there's a, there's a change.

And I think the demise of Boston is completely overblown. I think, you know, there's a version on the hall of famer. There's no question, but they had a really good team. And I don't think a team that how many points they had is going to go from 64, 65 wins down to 35.

Right. Their regression, if it's 12 games, is still – there will be a 50-win-plus season. So they're still really talented. The Leafs, enough said, they've got a hell of a team. So we're looking at all these guys going, wow, like somebody's out. And that's not even, we haven't even talked about Florida that went to the cup final last year,

who's missing, you know, two pretty premier defensemen. And so, yeah, we know what's going on. But it's different for us, but I also think it's a challenge for us. And, you know, until somebody, you know, knocks us out, we still feel like we're one of the kings in the east and we're gonna we're gonna act like that and we're gonna play to keep that spot and try not let these uh you know these up-and-coming teams take us out we're talking to head coach and two-time stanley cup champion john cooper from the tampa bay lightnings coop we mentioned that uh the push of an of an Ottawa and Detroit and still the challenges from a Boston and the Leafs.

And you've got this team that many of these future Hall of Famers now are still in their prime. But when it comes to wear and tear on them, I mean, it's almost like adding dog years to these guys. And, you know, come April and May, you know, we keep hearing Hedman's a game-time decision and points been limping. My point in all of this is, is there any way

that you could guard a little bit during this regular season so these guys are better equipped for that next push? Or is that just too hard? Honestly, like, this would be the smartest answer. It's like, don't win then. You know what I mean? It becomes the wear and tear. And you look at the games that people, you know, put in,

especially the goaltender. Like, the goaltender, it's, I don't know, 70 games. He played more than especially the goaltender. The goaltender, it's 70 games he played more than any other goaltender in the last three years if you add his playoff games. Those aren't just regular season games. Those are playoff games. The wear and tear you get just going through a playoff run. You look what Flora's going through right now and guys that haven't returned.

That happened to us last year. We'd lost Bogososian didn't return. Sorelli didn't come back till Thanksgiving. And it's all from that. And it's from playing those extra games and it's playing from those meaningful games. And you guys know, like, when you're, those playoff games are a grind. And if you get through the playoffs and you're not feeling like that, then you're probably out of the playoffs.

And so it's tough. And we've just, then you're probably out of the playoffs. And so it's tough. And we've just played a lot of games. And I think in the last 10 years, we've played the most playoff games out of anybody else. And eventually, it's going to take time because we're not reversing age and any of those things. And even though our guys, I consider these guys to be well into their prime and at the top

of their game, still the age does not hold up for anybody. And so you just got to be a little bit more careful. It's maybe an extra day off here or maybe lightening the load a bit. You just got to pick your spots, but you can't

be too selective because you still got to make the playoffs and we got to just make sure we get in. And as you said, we don't really care where we sit in the one and eight spot. We just want one of those spots. And so that's, you know, the balance you have to have. Yeah. Coop, I want to ask you a little bit about using bullets in air quotes here. And, you know, we've, we've seen this season,

Rick Talkett came out after a pretty good start for the Canucks and really kind of gave it to his team in the media a little bit. Lindy Ruff has benched players already. You know, a lot of these coaches, it kind of reminds me of like a new relationship with their teams and players and everything's fresh and new. You guys seem like you and those Lightning Corps there are in your sweatpants. You've been a couple for a long time. Everyone's very comfortable with each other how do you go about approaching you know jump

starting a team or yelling at guys benching and managing those bullets throughout the course of the season when you've been together for so long with those guys yes it's it's been there's been a lot of growth to it and me i'm like you know during these years has it all been, there's been a lot of growth to it. And I'm like, you know, during these years, has it all been rosy behind closed doors? No, naturally, like you play 82 games and there's ups and downs. And I think one of the big things for me, you're going to compare the John Cooper 2014 versus, you know, the Cooper of now.

I used to really wear every single game. I used to ride the emotions of, you know, pushing every button and then grabbing every like bag out of the trick to win every single game. And it was exhausting. And I just like, wow, I'm probably not going to be around that long. If, if this is the way it's, you know, I'm going to act in this. So you really got to take a step back and look at the big picture of, okay, how am i going

to navigate 82 games without running these guys through the wall and without you know like affecting relationships but also keeping these guys play at a high level and so for me i was asked this a little while ago about you know using the media and you know i probably use the media a bit or try to at times during the playoffs, but I don't really do it much in the regular season. I think if we've got issues, we just keep them behind closed doors in our locker room. But are there times, you know, for me, you don't want to go into a situation

where you're embarrassing players. Again, you want to hold those meetings and you want to hold guys accountable. But at times, it becomes ice time and in the end that's probably the biggest kicker a coach has and you start taking that away and you get it you start opening some eyes and as you said you know some coaches have been some guys it's you know early in the year and they're trying to get these guys attention and and uh you know everybody's got their own way of doing things. And, you know, I've been put in that situation where that's happened. And, you know, it's not fun for anybody, but you hope you've trained your guys.

You know them well enough. You've been with them long enough that you know that they're going to respond. And you know how to, when the, you know, kind of cheese is sliding off the cracker a bit, how to put it back on. And so that's, you know, in the end, it's experience. And I've just learned that over time, how to navigate those roads. Well, for the record, when you put the cheese back on the cracker, it's really good for our show. We enjoy when it needs a readjustment.

Yes. Just to touch base a little bit on your goaltending, what have you seen so far? I would imagine there might have been an opportunity to pick up a more veteran goalie at the waiver wire. You guys never did that. What have you seen out of your two goaltenders, Tompkins and Johansson?

I really like what we've seen. And so we went through this preseason. And to be honest, I don't know how many, I think there's a bunch of teams still keeping three goalies, probably because of us, you know, wondering what we're going to do. And the situation with us was, you know, we brought Johansson to play on our team. We brought Tompkins to be a part of our organization

and to be able to be put in situations that he is right now just in case there is an injury. And I think it is a phenomenal story that he's 29 years old. He's played all over the world in hockey and never played in the NHL and got to play his opening game in Canada, of all places, being a Canadian. And so, like, super cool story. As for their goaltending, we had enough. Like, we went through this preseason.

We looked at these guys. We looked at their demeanor and said, you know, what do we, like, how much more are we going to improve? Like, the goalie that's better than these guys is the guy that's hurt in our locker room. And he's not coming back for two months. And we have's better than these guys is the guy that's hurt in our locker room and he's not coming back for two months and and we have a belief in these guys but the big belief is can we play d in front of these players and sometimes when there's a little you know you hit well i don't know when you get a lemon you got to make lemonade and that's in the end we got to

take our situation we have to put our goalies in positions to succeed and go from there. And for a lot of the part we season we have, I do think we've had a little bit of like crazy luck. Like, I don't know if you remember the Detroit game was a tough game for us, you know, in playing in front of the goalies, but I mean,

to bring it bounced a shot in from the blue line that went in the top corner. I don't know how that happened, but it happened. And it's just some of these situations we've run into where we've played a pretty solid game, and then when we just give up a chance, we just give up a 10-beller.

And I think our goaltenders have made saves they've had to, and they've given us a chance to win every night. It's us in front of them that at times I think have let them down. So pretty proud of these guys, of what they've done. And, you know, the big thing is can they do it, you know, it's worth four games, five games in, you know, can you do it 25 games in? And that's, you know, a question with goalies that haven't done it before. And so, but we really like what these guys have done,

and they're first-class kids. And our team has really got their backs. Well, we'll look forward to their next challenge as early as tomorrow night when they face the Toronto Maple Leafs on Hockey Night in Canada. Hey, Coop, always a pleasure having you on the show, man. Yeah, you guys are the best, and I enjoy

when Toronto comes because I always get to talk to you guys. We'll see how it goes tomorrow night. Thanks, Coop. Appreciate you. You should see the look on Sammy's face. You just called him the best. Wow! From a two-time Stanley Cup coach. Thanks, Coop! Sammy!

He wasn't talking about me. He said some mean things about Tampa Bay last year. And him. Matt Tompkins is an interesting story. Played in the Olympics for Canada in 2022. Beijing, I think it was. Was that the last time? When was the last Olympics?

Sounds right. He was on the team. He was one of the goalies when I think they came sixth. Wasn't the prettiest performance for our our men over there you know listen you don't care about that but there's a hard salary cap i mean how many guys in the last 20 years have had an opportunity because you can't go and pay for somebody that's better yeah yeah no it's the absolute truth it's a shame but a break for those guys so it sounds like. It sounds like Coop is, you know, giving them every chance to succeed. That's a good story.

But, you know, we got to cut the line at Zamboni drivers. Seriously. You know, I had a conversation with someone the other night who was like, you know the guy, I'm sure. About the. It was our boy, Rustique. Oh, yeah. This goalie thing is silly.

Yeah. You know, that we can't pay for, you know, that e-bugs exist. And that. It's a joke. It's the NHL. It's the NHL. Somebody's paying $250 a ticket. Can you not give Mike McKenna, who just retired,

$100,000 to go to every game in case they need him? Like, what drop in the bucket is $100,000 for an NHL team and to keep a real goalie? Say, stay in shape. Here's some money. To this day, and I will say this to this day, the darkest moment as a Toronto Maple Leaf fan

was when they lost to Ayers. No, nothing close. Really? Nothing close. I was in the building for that. Remember blowing that series to Montreal? Whatever. 3-1 game against Boston that time? They were hockey players. 4-1. And the media tour he did after he's going like it was

it was a nightmare. It's goofy. The amount of chirps I ate for that. I agree with you. The Zamboni driver like it's just there's nothing worse. As a fan, you know in your position to say that's one of the most humiliating moments.

Number one. Number one. Number one. I had to blow the series to the Habs, blowing the 4-1 against Bruins. Yeah. You know, losing to Columbus in the bike. Whatever crappy moment you can come up with for the Leafs,

nothing comes close to airs for me. It's horrible. Okay. Lean. All right, it's game time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365 be 19 plus ontario only play responsibly i've got a few hitters for you today okay okay quick ones uh this is just a gut call on something that kipper had mentioned to us last

year with codry and codry going to play against columbus tonight on sportsnet one uh my boy borny gonna be on the panel tonight, I think. Oh, exciting. Is that true? Yeah. Okay, good, good. We're up in like an hour. You know how excited he is, by the way, for this hit tonight? He says, remind me after this show that I don't go to the parking lot,

grab my car, and go home. That I have to work tonight. It's because he forgot one time this year. Literally, that has happened where I've had to turn around and be like, oh, my God, I'm on in 20 minutes. My wife texted me. But you had told me once. And I'm the one with the concussions.

You told me once that Kadri, there was some interest from Columbus. Are you kidding me? They were right there. They wanted him. Okay, well, I'm going to take a shot that Kadri scores the first goal of the hockey game tonight. He hasn't gotten off to the best start. Four games. Bagel. Nice pass on the game winner in

Buffalo for Calgary. A little 11-1 action for Kadri to score the first goal of the hockey game tonight. Next one I have is looking ahead to tomorrow. And it's a big game. One o'clock, which I'm sure people in Ottawa aren't thrilled about. It's a weird time to start a hockey game.

But it's Detroit and Ottawa, the two three-in-one teams in the Atlantic. Love the Sens. I even like a minus a goal and a half. I just feel like, wow, this is a big chance for them to kind of not assert themselves, but the Debrinket story and him kind of wanting out of there. This team's got some momentum going. I could really see the Sens making a statement tomorrow night, tomorrow afternoon on home ice.

Yeah, I mean, that is an opportunity for them for sure. Do you have a Debrinkit goal? It wasn't posted yet. It wasn't posted? No, it wasn't posted yet. But I would like a Debrinkit goal too, but I really do think the Sens are going to smoke them tomorrow. Like, I feel like they are legit good,

and Detroit may not be legit good. So after four games, you've got this team not going away. I've watched them play, I think, three of their four games so far this year. They were really impressive against Washington. And just that decor. Oops, talking about Sanderson like he's Paul McCarr. I mean, he's really good. Yeah.

Really, really good. They should get a big contract. Might not have that quick, fast twitch east-west quite like Makar, but I tell you what, I saw him dart up the ice, and it was like a wow. It's gliding. Like he's gliding up the ice. And Chikrin shoots it there.

They're pretty good back there. One more quick one here. The number isn't posted yet for tomorrow, but keep an eye on it on Bet365. Ovechkin going into Montreal. No goals so far. Back-to-back games, no shots. Loves playing against Montreal.

I think I saw that he has 37 career goals in 55 games against Montreal. He owns everyone, but he loves playing in Montreal. He's been asked about playing there before. Going in there, keep an eye on it. I have a a feeling he's gonna get his first of the season whatever the shot over is for obie bang that over because i'm sure he would have heard about the no shots two games in a row thing and one's going in the net tomorrow obie is definitely scoring i gotta give you i don't know if i'm gonna give you credit okay but you you were one of the few that said still early

his time's catching up to him when he had a four goal night against 27 goals this year i did yeah i mean i will say i look i think he started uh two other seasons one time he went three games without scoring might have been last year and he scored 42 another time he went four games to start the year without scoring and he led the league in goals so i'm not going to take a victory lap yet. And last, last quick one, little same game parlay if you're into that. Devils to win minus goal and a half. Jack Hughes' goal is plus 475 tonight.

So there you go. That was Game Time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Okay, we're going to take a quick break here,

and then we're going to catch up with some more NHL news and notes, including... And texts, of course. 590. 590. Connor Bedard held without a shot attempt against a very good Avalanche team. I want to pick up a conversation on Bedard.

And again, I know it's early. We're four games in. But maybe downgrade a little bit of the expectations. I want to get your thoughts on that. Plus, we'll talk about Pat Kane, Phil Kessel talk out there. Plenty to get into, as Sam said, including your text. We want to hear from you. It's Friday. So text us at 590 590 and more real kipper after these words everything you need to know about the blue jays blair and barker be sure to subscribe and download the show on apple spotify or wherever you get your podcasts Welcome back into the TM Studio here at Sportsnet.

Nick Kiprios, Justin Bournes, and me, McKee, who John Cooper said is the best. There is no way he meant that about me. I think he was looking right at you. He, I don't know. What do you regret saying? Zero. What did you say that could be regretful?

I mean, that he's condescending, that, you know, said some stuff after they put him out, that... You're a Leaf fan. You're up in your feelings. He could be one of the best, though, and he pretty much admitted it right on our show. He uses people like Sammy to manipulate the narrative out there,

especially in the playoffs. He said, I out there especially in the playoffs he said i do it more in the playoffs otherwise we try to handle things in-house it's like yeah in playoffs when he's he's talking to the leafs half the time i felt like trying to get his message out there about how when the leafs were winning games it was you know them losing them not the leafs winning them and yeah he likes to send messages uh yesterday in my article in the toronto star i talked about uh teams with high expectations toronto and edmonton and both played last night and both found a way not to get the job done the edmonton oilers dropping to the philadelphia flyers 4-1 cam atkinson two goals connor mcdavid is zero goals if these guys don't score they don't win sean couturier missed all of last season and only played 29 games the

season before this is the first year of an eight year i think 62 million dollar contract for philly and he's been awesome he's plus seven he went head to head with m contract for Philly. And he's been awesome. He's plus seven. He went head-to-head with McDavid last night. He's been really, I think he's got four points. So, you know, if he's good, like Philly may not be, you know, picking Celebrini next year. So, hold on for a second. We suck.

We haven't four-checked. We haven't done anything. Sean Couturier is a selkie winner. He is. He shuts down McDavid. Uh-oh. Barkov is a Selkie winner. He is. He shuts down McDavid. Uh-oh. Barkov's a Selkie winner. He shuts down Austin Matthews last night.

Oh, boy. Kind of coincidental that I wrote that in my article. Well, Austin Matthews also shut down Barkov. So maybe he should win the Selkie. Okay, but who's team one? I guess that's fair. I guess that's fair. I guess that's fair. Defense.

It's good. It's good. You should try to do it. Sean Couturier, good on him. A lot of people question whether or not this guy could even resume his career. Yeah. I mean, with that big contract there, I mean, Philly was trying to go in a different direction when they signed it.

But, yeah, I think it'd be good for him. And those young guys that are trying to develop, you need some real players, some tent poles around so i'm happy that he's he's looking good so far so like we've uh kind of said throughout the whole show we're only what four games in and some coaches are feeling the heat is jay woodcroft one of them do we have his clip from last night we do have his clip would you like to hear it yeah i do okay not to our standard yeah certainly uh not not good enough excuse my language that sums it up right there four games that you felt that way certainly nobody was happy about the first game i mean

that's half the season i know it's i know it's early but you feel like it's becoming a bit of a concern for for you guys the way that you're competing? You know what, I thought our game lacked urgency today. I thought, you know, I didn't see second and third effort in all areas of the game from up and down our lineup, not to our standard. As I said to Tony, we played towards the standard and it wasn't there for us tonight, and that's disappointing. It's going to have to get fixed quickly here.

Okay, when you accidentally cuss with an F-bomb. Was it just a random tethered F-bomb there? It was 100% pure emotion F-bomb. Yeah. was 100% pure emotion. F-bomb. Yeah. That tells you how frustrated or shocked or whatever it is. He's in it right now. Yeah, and I mean, it's not like they've gone out and lost to other contenders, right?

It's been the Canucks, the Canucks, and the Flyers that have done it to them. Hey, the Flyers are giving the western team fits the pockets killing them after the game and then three and one right well yeah then they play the Oilers and Jay Woodcroft most professional guy in the league's dropping f-bombs he can only hope to contain the Flyers yes off to a good start here here in Toronto we know that on occasion there's been a few whipping boys on the blue line, but Evan Bouchard had a very tough night last night. Yeah. And on a team that's already questionable on the blue line,

when we talk about pressure and expectations, this guy's got to come in and be a star right now for them. Well, they gave him some money, did they not? What's his contract situation? Bridge deal. Bridge deal? Yeah, I don't know what it was. I mean, people love his offensive game, right?

And it's the old, is he going to round it out and be more, you know, a 200-foot guy for them? And that doesn't seem to be coming along quickly. But that's an important piece for them him being successful not just a one-way guy conor bedard we've watched him on the road yeah face off against some big guys including austin matthews and uh sydney crosby and last night nate mckinnon and wearing on him or what? I just... No shots on goal.

Obviously no points. No attempts. Let me throw this out at you guys. We all came in with our predictions and I was one of them. I think I had them at... I said 50. I said 37. You're not an idiot. I said 42.

Okay. We're all in agreement for the most part. We're not judging too much on anybody or any team just yet four games in. But have you seen enough to say that you are closer that he'll score 40 goals or closer to he'll score around 20 goals? Well, he has zero in four games so i haven't strengthened my belief that he's going to get all these goals but i will say so i wrote an article some weird stats or some cool stats about it on wednesday and at that time so before the game against colorado he was second league in shots he was second league in slot shots first in rush

chances second in cycle chances fourth in four check chances second and rebound chances those are all different areas of the game you may note i think he's going to score some goals so i'm not sitting here like no you know sorry one goal in four games yeah he's going to be a you know he's not going to score i'm not backing off i'll back off from 50 it's a lot of goals i'll back off i'll. That's a lot of goals. I'll back off from 50. I'll go that far. I don't begrudge analytics like some people do. I say there's stuff that I like, some stuff I don't like. I appreciate that about you. We need to do that more this year.

We haven't done it yet. Useful or useless? Useful or useless with your analytics. What's this? But I want to ask you something that, okay, he's not scoring. No. He's this phenom. He comes in with the reputation of being a generational player.

And, you know, not that we're expecting him to score 150 points, but if people are tuning in for the first time to see Conor Bernard and they're thinking he's this great hockey player, people want to see offense. Yeah. And it's not there right now so the chances are there sorry the chances are there except for last night thank you last night bringing up the point i don't know if people care like i don't know if people care that it's their expected goals like like you know go tell someone who's doesn't really know hockey all that well that um his he's he's really leading the league he's never in the history of our game have we had a guy come in in the first four games and have the shot attempts that he has you know is that

sexy no is that are we selling that no but it's indication that i expect the goals to come here for him okay and also if you score once every four goals or four games it's 20 goals so you know if he picks up the pace a little bit you know we're getting into better numbers here okay i'm just saying though that we're still in the net everybody's trying to hang on to something with him if he's not coming out of the gate like a guy that is going to be this phenom as early as this year. Maybe he scores 20. Maybe he scores 22.

And I think it's hard on a bad team. Who are his line mates? Me and Kelsey Grammer? After four games, have we seen enough to say, okay, who's going to get him the puck yeah and to score these 37 or 40 or 50 like some people predicted they are asking him to carry the mail a lot right there's no one he's on the power play for a minute and a half he's on the first line he's people are looking to him to do it and he has played crosby and in boston and montreal and in

toronto and colorado and it going to be vague and it's a tough start for the kid let him get into Columbus in game 12 and get into you know wherever else Anaheim and all that the goals will come how many minutes did he play last night Sammy I don't have it with me yeah just look because uh that I I called it after the first game where I'm watching him, and he's leading his team in ice time, but the one that really bothered me was being out there for the first two minutes of a power play. He played 1937 last night.

Okay. It's better than 23. Yeah. They got dummied, huh? I can guarantee you that Mario Lemieux never played two minutes of any power play. That's because coaches stunk and they didn't know they should. They should have parked Lemieux in the corner to hit one-timers. He told you.

Yeah. He told you. Yeah. You sure? He should have sat in the corner for two minutes just doing the Ovechkin. Eventually they did. He did. Yeah.

Right? Maybe as early as Christmas that year. I was going to say, he was known for some longer shifts here and there. I think Chicago did a wise thing of just finding ways to look themselves in the mirror and go, what are we doing here? Let's back off the kid a little bit. Yeah. Give him some breathing room.

They should give him a couple of players. That'll give him some breathing room too. Stop trying to finish bottom now. or kessel any i don't think there's any other i don't know some people will be a maple leaf this year uh you know how i can't believe i didn't get an instant you know how desperate their secondary scoring has to be? Yeah. This current amount of desperate? Noah Greger, one goal. I would think it's more November. Yeah.

If you need to revisit that. Patrick Kane leaves question mark? Three-time cup champion, Phil Kessel. Patrick Kane. How do you fit that in? Also three-time cup champ. Yeah. It's leaning towards Buffalo, but someone told me Colorado.

I like that because they're a fun team. You get to watch them a lot. They've got Landis Cog. They got to fill in for Landis Cog. I mean, he had points last year. He's not done. He's got this fresh hip. Maybe he'll be rejuvenated. Brand new hip. I mean, he had points last year. He's not done. He's got this fresh hip. Maybe he'll be rejuvenated.

Brand new hip. Brand new, baby. It's fresh out of the... I also saw some videos of Jesse Pugliarvi doing some fancy tricks, skating on the ice. Yes, sir. Yeah. Yes, sir?

It's yes, sir. What did I say, Jesse? Yeah, I'm sorry. Yes, sir. Pugliarvi. He's available, and apparently teams are very interested in Yesa. He's coming off some surgery. For $750 a year.

Absolutely. Leafs. I'm just going to keep throwing out Leafs until they bring a depth guy. You got anything for us over there? I do have some tags. Would you like me to read some to you? Yes. This is a question.

I want to hear about his hair. Are you sure? Someone thinks, you know. Some guy texted in and said that he likes my hair. He hates it? He likes it. Oh, yeah. So you don't want to hear about his hair. Are you sure? Someone thinks, you know. Some guy texted in and said that he likes my hair. He hates it? He likes it. Oh, yeah. So you don't want to read that?

No. Okay. Hey, boys, should they try and give Austin Matthews the Sid treatment? See if he can carry a line on his own, maybe with Domi and Pertuzzi on the wings. I think he's so dominant right now, he could play with anyone. Yes, they should. I was going to bring that up, i i think it's too early but when you when you uh when you have matthews and marner as an automatic together it really limits what you can do around it i'm surprised to hear this from you yeah yeah so listen john tavarez still a good

hockey player in many ways but he can't drive a line he cannot are we all in agreement with that i think yeah i cannot drive a line you want to talk about having good hands around the net, power play, I get all of that. Nobody better in type. But if you're really thinking about what this text just said, then you got to start thinking about Willie back in the middle or Marner back in the middle. And maybe you go Matthews, Marner, one, two.

Marner center? Sure. Back to one of the core beliefs of our show. I love anyone who's been with our show for three years knows the evolution of this. He's the best. He's the best setup guy. Yeah.

Beliefs have. Yeah. And he's really good defensively. And he's a winger. Yeah. Usually centerman. But they've never tried it. It doesn't even come up.

No. You know? It's never even been mentioned. All right. But I think if you go, I think if you were going to put Matthews on his own line, you go Matthews, and then maybe you try Nylander on the third line as a center.

So you have three really good centers, and then you go out fromlander on the third line as a center so you have three really good centers and then you go out from there maybe mitch doesn't want to be this guy but can he be the crutch for john devarez on you know like oh he's there right if it's it's if you're separating matthews and marner it's definitely putting him with devarez now to prop him up seems likely because you know it doesn't work with willie and you're not putting him with matthews you're not making him a winger there so matthews yeah i like the bertuzzi and domey something like that would be great i mean crosby's done it for years connor mcdavid when leon plays on the second line he's you know he often has has had to drag some wingers along

hyman was saved him from doing that but i think they should at least see should at least find out how you look with those four-star guys on three lines, not two. Yeah. Hasn't worked in playoffs for more than two rounds yet. Still a little early, but something to think about. So, good question. Does Debrinkit deserve to get booed in Ottawa tomorrow from James?

Trying to remember the circumstances of his departure. The answer is yes. Yes, he deserves to get booed oh is that right yeah why not i would boo the ever-living hell you don't want to be here yeah come on look at our great enough for you you don't want to be here then great young great young team on the up and up yeah like yeah i would boo him hard. You have our permission. There you go. Yeah. This is a Bruins fan gloating, saying,

John from Hamilton, no Bergeron, no Krejci, no problem. Go Bruins. Are they going to be actually good again? Oh, okay. Beat San Jose. Okay. Oh, so you don't think that's right? Oh, no.

It was a coop that said earlier in the show, why is everybody writing off this team? I don't disagree with that. Spectacular point. He's like, if they lose 12 more games than they lost last year, they're a 50-plus win team, which is very good. Glenn Holm on the back. McAvoy.

Come on. That's still really good. Glenn Holm, Carlo, Forbert, Shattenkirk. Are there three pairs? Yeah, it's pretty good. Pretty darn good. And thenlik McAvoy, Lindholm Carlo, Forbert Shattenkirk. Are there three pairs? Yeah, it's pretty good. Pretty darn good. And then Swayman and Allmark in net. Yeah, and they're not going to have the season they had last year,

but they're not going to fall off the face of the earth either. That Swayman's a good goalie. I would have tried to steal him out of Boston. Yeah, Anchorage, Alaska. What's up? George Chinookville. The role of the head coach is to get the most out of boston yeah anchorage alaska what's up uh george chanokeville the role of the head coach is get the most out of his players can you honestly say that keith has done that in his tenure in toronto uh i don't know i mean matthew's won a heart trophy listen they've won one round

he's won one round and a hundred points a couple times the answer is no and it's just it's it's result driven it's not our opinion it's just result-driven. It's not our opinion. It's just result-driven. That is kind of the nut of coaching, isn't it? It's like, did your team succeed? No. No.

And let me... We watched the game last night against Florida and the Leafs. Which team had better structure? I was pretty tight game both ways. Stop it. Florida. Florida. I'm not going to both ways Florida Florida I agree they came out of their zone way cleaner than Toronto did like they're missing

three guys that Gustis of Forsling Forsling is going to get paid best defenseman on the ice and he plays a ton I'm not sure Ekman Larson was that much far behind him. Okay?

The Leafs couldn't get any cycle going. Zero. They couldn't sustain anything long in Florida's zone. That, to me, is a good, structured, fundamental team, much like we saw in their run last spring. Yeah. To me, that's a lot of its coaching. Yeah, that certainly can be part of it.

You know, the Leafs last night didn't give up a whole ton against, you know, when they've been bad. But when they did, it was in their net. Yeah. Well, a couple of them, you guys didn't like the Sammy one, but... And there's multiple texts on here

chirping me about how good Easton Cowan and the London Knights are. Yeah. What are you saying? They kept the wrong guy? I'm not going to read all these texts, but there's a lot actually. So apparently Easton Cowan's looking pretty good at the London Knights. Well, that's a good sign.

But, you know, this is not the year for a junior hockey player to be a major contributor. Trade? Absolutely. If you can make something at the deadline where you're going to get good players for easton cowan or frazier minton that is a lock we're like year six of the all-in there's gonna be nothing left like you watch night to night like i'm i write off nashville two games ago because edmonton fed them their lunch then they come back and they uh they beat the New York Rangers.

Yeah. At Madison Square. How do you figure this league out? You don't. I talked about it last night. There's five elite teams, 20 of the exact same team, and then a bunch of crappy ones. Yeah.

Done. That's the NHL. The Capitals in trouble. The Blue Jackets in trouble. But it's tough to find truly bad teams this year. San Jose is kind of consensus. Not great. Yeah, there's not many, man. A lot of middling teams, salary caps,

killing the league. Just the exact same teams, over and over and over. You think St. Louis is real bad? What was that saying again? You think St. Louis is bad? Bad, bad? Yeah. I think that it's going to be one of those years

where Doug Armstrong's trying to figure out a way to get back in it. Before we close, Mark Andre Fleury is five wins back of tying Patrick Wofford's second all-time in goaltender wins, and he's almost at a thousand games played. Fourth goal ever. One note on our good buddy Ken Reid,

hometown hockey heroes. Get it in the pick there, will you? Yeah. There it is. There it is. Get it! Kenny knows his stuff. Great stories. Am I in here? No, you made it to the NHL. Those guys didn't. I'm. Get it. Kenny knows his stuff. Great stories. Am I in here? No, you made it to the NHL. Those guys didn't. I'm not reading it.

I'm not reading it. If I'm not in, I can't. Sorry. All right. Our thanks to John Cooper, the Stanley Cup champion, Tampa Bay Lightning. Of course, a lot of games this weekend.

Pick the one that you want on Sportsnet. Thanks for watching and listening. Real Kipper and Boren returns Monday. Stay safe.