Real Kyper & Bourne - BONUS: Leafs Avoid Sweep, Force Game 5

Episode Date: May 11, 2023

On the brink, the Toronto Maple Leafs avoid getting swept by the Florida Panthers in game 4. JD Bunkis, Sam McKee, and Justin Bourne, break down the Leafs 2-1 victory over the cats, and discuss the teams defensive structure, how Joseph Woll fared in his first career playoff start, Mitch Marner's issues turning over the puck, and more on Leafs Talk!The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

all right leafs talk jd bunkus sam mckee justin bourne the leafs are alive and i'm still screwing my lighting uh i'm getting in frame i had the two quick there fellas uh they're live it's three one the series they got a game now all they have to do is do what the florida panthers did a series ago uh justin bourne let's come to you first what was the story of the game um i you know for me it's the least defensive effort joseph wool goes in net right this guy who unproven big moment save your season and you know there's not too many saves they you know where you can go wow they asked him to make a superhuman save not a ton of great a's so yeah totally unsexy but good positional play you're in florida they already score a lot like i said and yeah they didn't give them a whole lick tonight so i

thought good good structure oh boring but good yeah yeah elite defensive structure for me too i just i they played so well defensively tonight like i just i really like i mean i thought they played well defensively in game three as well and they just couldn't get a goal and they you know one one extra goes in or two extra go in but i just thought they were really really good to a man maybe outside of mccabe we can talk about that later but i was just impressed with their commitment how many blocks how many shots did they block tonight 21 felt like yeah i was gonna say i was gonna i was gonna say 25 it just felt like it was really really high and if you want to talk about stepping up and wanting to win a game that's one way you show it is commitment by blocking shots so i was impressed by their defensive effort to story

the game for me i should say that i started counting block shots during the game and i have 21 that's a jd stat oh okay might be no less official than the random guy who does it from the rafters in the building i assure you i was gonna say that i think i'm the most trustworthy guy when it comes to the block shots i'll be surprised if i'm off by more than one or two, but I counted 21. And I agree with you guys. I think that basically the way that I was going to say it was not so much defensive structure, but just the Leafs controlled the pace of the game for once against the Florida Panthers. It felt like the Panthers couldn't do what they wanted to. They weren't really counter-punching.

The Leafs took away the middle of the ice. And they played a game that we were sort of accustomed to seeing from the Leafs a lot this regular season right like what did we say was different about the Leafs this year was you felt way more comfortable about the idea they would win a playoff style hockey game a 2-1 hockey game because of their structure as you guys mentioned their willingness to sell out and just the way that they could slow a game down and so yeah boring I'm with you tonight was boring there were definitely moments where my eyes started to glaze over and i went no no no like you gotta stay locked in this is your job but i think that the leafs deserve a lot of credit for this one but it is

crazy though right like we're here sitting here after game four they've only scored twice four straight games against the florida panthers team that was like 23rd and expected goals against or something this year they got scored on a ton it is it's the one thing that's like that element didn't change for me by the same token right there was no there was not a ton of great days they had some great chances sure but I mean they get great chances in every game just it's the one where I'm like yeah they played really well tonight I'm not going to be overly critical of them but that you know last show we talked about the absence of greatness well it wasn't exactly present tonight i agree and and this is like not to get in i have a lot of i have so a lot of

positive notes and a lot of negative notes tonight to kind of go through and i i think that you guys are probably gonna be the same but to already kind of go on that i think like the style of play in which they invoked is a good one but you're still wanting to see what you saw in that first period of game two which is just some dominance and some feeling like toronto still is able to just take over the game and tonight it was like what you more would have expected a game from them against like tampa bay where they're trying to like level out the skill and wait for their chances and take advantage of them a little bit more with the slowed-down play. Because, yeah, if you think about the way Toronto scored tonight even,

to take that a step further, they got a puck that bounces off the boards in one of the weirdest ways I can remember this season for them for the first power play goal after over a minute and a half where they could barely get the puck in the zone on the power play. And then they get a Mitch Marner soft wrister that just has eyes and finds its way through brovsky and so you know you get two goals tonight but they're also kind of it didn't feel like they deserved more than two goals tonight oh i'm trying to think of like outside of those two that actually went in which ones i guess the tavaris semi breakaway where he tried to go back to the same

movie. Didn't game two would be one. He had another one where he took it to the net, right? Yeah. Yeah. And that was on the power play before the Willie goal when he kind of like cut to the middle of the net and had a good chance,

but you're right. Like the offense here was not sparkling. Like that's the, the, one of the big takeaways to me is like how they needed this defensive effort to be able to win this game. What is it straight games is this two goals now five six six like it's it's really remarkable and if there's one thing and dare i say that gives me hope going forward here in this series starting on friday night is that they're due to put a few in the net here like

i know they haven't been, you know, kicking down the door necessarily, but at some point, you know, four or five got to go in the net here, right? Like, it's crazy their lack of scoring. They got to win tonight, but it feels like a breakout has to come here eventually. Yeah, I think back to the, you know,

the second game in Toronto there where they really carried the run of play and it was just odd man rush odd man rush odd man rush it's still the same florida team like i'm sure they're doing some things you know they've made some adjustments there systems wise but yeah that element is there and that's sure sam like it's not like anyone sitting here is like they're going to win this series but if you want to have some hope they have good offensive players that haven't scored yet and that is like more likely to come at some point so yeah it's a bit of a bright spot i'll just say though i i thought that florida's mistake tonight was it

felt like both teams were tentative and you could kind of feel how big the first goal of the game was and both teams just seemed kind of fine with keeping it out to the perimeter like trying to make that like get those shots through and again the leafs win the game because they eventually did get one of those shots through but yeah not a lot of stuff in the front of the net not a lot of chances from everybody tonight it was very much a laid back everyone just be careful with the game and i think again if you're the leafs you'd much rather play that style of game with florida than the other way around where you're starting to take risks so like the the positive spin for me is i just think that ultimately you were on the road

you just needed to get one and for you to play that way to get one is like pretty important absolutely and yeah go ahead morning no go ahead well sammy i just want to talk about the idea of like we we said we're talking about our group chat the underdog status and what it does for a team in a series like this like florida comes into it and kachuk says we just want to keep it close the longer it goes the better off we are and so when nothing happens in a game and you're the established underdog you're winning right you're building confidence we're still in there we're still in there. We're still in there getting stronger.

And the team that's supposed to win in that same scenario is going, we can't get one. We can't get one. We're pressing. And so every time these games are close long, it feels like advantage Florida, which is so silly. So that, that break they get tonight, kind of the break they need, right? Get them out ahead and then they can kind of play a little bit better.

And I don't know, it's maybe they they'll need bounces like that throughout the game but they need to be content when it's close it's florida's no longer an underdog they are in the driver's seat so that's a great point and one that you know can't be overlooked and i think what we saw from tampa sorry from florida a little bit tonight is just the we talk about it so many times of the leafs when they had chances to eliminate teams. You know, it's that old cliche in playoff hockey, you know, the fourth win's the hardest one to get. And they look like a team that was like,

holy crap, we got a chance. We are the eighth seed. We got a chance to eliminate the Leafs here, like on our home ice. And I thought they looked like they, for the first time in this series, that they were gripping the sticks a little bit. Like they weren't as offensive flowing, like playing as free.

And I'm not saying that's going to translate to the rest of the series or whatever. It just felt like, I think you said tentative. They just, both teams seem tentative to me, but I think Florida actually seemed a little bit more tentative. Like they were gripping the sticks, like they were feeling the pressure for the first time. And that kind of gets to your point, Marnie point morning about being going from the underdog to being in the driver's seat yeah i think both teams are feeling it and this is you forget that the team that's been as unsuccessful as the toronto maple leafs is the florida panthers and that's true you you

look at these two teams tonight and they were again they were the the mexican standoff in the office where it's just you know everybody's gonna do it who's gonna make a move who's gonna who's gonna be the first one to actually pull the trigger on something because i think both these are tentative and yeah i thought it was born's thought where the longer it went on and florida was around it that they were going to be able to win and that it really did tonight come down to first goal. And again, I think Toronto played well. I think that they played a style that they're probably more comfortable playing with

than Florida is. And if you play that game over, let's say a hundred times, I think Toronto is going to come out on top of that more times than not. They also had a backup goalie in net for the entire game. And I think that there was probably a little bit more import to make sure that they were extremely defensively responsible to not let him get exposed early lose his confidence like yeah man that you know how like the la kings in 2014 when they came back in their series and they beat the san jose sharks

you know the mentors of marner and matthews the big chokers sharks uh john the quick let him five goals in four games like that was one of the big stories of that series and i do think that the least path forward here is not going to be them running up the scores and them getting in running gun with the florida panthers where they are susceptible to those like counterpunch moments with their backup goaltender and that against Bobrovsky, I think it's this style of game. Like,

I think we're going to see a lot more of this moving forward, even when they're at home. So the one thing that has to change, then if we're talking about the absence of greatness and, um, you know, they just got to win. So don't want to be negative or whatever,

but like, you know, you and I, uh, talked about betting Matthews over four and a half shots tonight because no brainer, if you're going to go out, you're going to go down chucking.

And, you know, I think he ended up with four, which, you know, heartbreak hotel. Yeah. Boys.

I did that. So everyone across the board bet the Leafs tonight. So I didn't bet. I didn't bet. I didn't bet on the Leafs. Okay. I was going to say that it was pretty clearly a Leafs are going to check up and get one of these game for me so no matthews you know they didn't get the showing from him that i had hoped to get and

i know marner leaves that game with a goal and an assist but you know he gets a second assist on a off the ref thing that he has nothing to do with and shoots off his foot yeah and shoots one from 60 some feet you know that finds his way through. So do we have the Marner pack? So I think if Marner, that goal, if he can take that and get some good vibes, his confidence with the puck right now, watch his turnover pack of Mitch Marner in this game, where this guy has been so confident with the puck all year long.

Guys, he's turning the puck over on 30% of his Ozone touches. Sorry, 33%. Like a third of the time he gets it in the Ozone, he's turning the puck over. In the regular season, it was like 19. There's one high in the zone. You know, they're almost going back the other way. And, you know, I won't talk over the whole pack,

but, like, there's just so many times where, like, this guy has shown so much poise all season. You know, elite offensive guy just handed it to the other team too much. Yeah. So I'm with you in terms of I wrote down in the notes of huge confidence moment for Marner. The only thing is, is that after that, he has a chance to put the game away with a shorthanded goal and muffs it. And then he has another turnover shortly after that. That was a pretty egregious one.

And I went, boy, that didn't really last too long. You're right. I would say that from the biggest negatives of the game, it was that I still am waiting for Matthews and Marner to have some force in the hockey game. 91-88, we're flying early, and Tavares cannot cannot really move he's just so slow in this series there's just a couple of times where he gets stuck in the d zone and he's trying to go like across the ice and it's just it's hard to watch i will say though he doesn't seem nervous like the other

guys to me he's still not the same plays he always did yeah that's what i'm saying though is that i liked tavarez and i liked nylander tonight and i went boy i would be splitting up marner and matthews but also the way that nylander and tavarez were going i almost thought maybe you're just keeping those two together because they're actually playing well tonight you're gonna need more from 16 and 34 in this series if you're gonna come back like i think that's pretty clear that they got one tonight but to me it felt like again their teammates it's weird to say this when marner got a primary assist and a goal but like their teammates bought them more time to get back into this series yeah absolutely and like yeah i just i thought that you used the

word tentative it's just marner seems tentative with the puck and that comes down to confidence we're still is this pack still a turnover like look how many turnovers there are for our youtube audience that's watching this thing like and some of them are completely unforced like this one is pressure that one was horrific like there's just some really tough stuff in that pack so i you're right you just nailed it like they need i i don't there was a time where they put o'reilly with those two guys where i was like okay this is a good little wrinkle here. And throughout that game, I was wondering if they were going to do the switch, but you were right about Tavares and Willie playing well together. I don't know what else you can do. Like, is there another shuffle you can do where you move them even more apart? Like, it just really feels like

it's either going to be those two guys that, sorry, those four guys that interchange playing with each other. I don't think there's going to be any other adjustments outside of that so you just have to hope that going forward here are two guys that have been elite together all year for multiple years just get hot for a few games and figure it out because they haven't to this point like they really haven't and i know marner got both like he had an assist on one of the goals and scored the winning goal so it's really hard to be incredibly critical but i don't think he had a really good game tonight like a full stop like i didn't think he was excellent by any stretch and i think back to it ken hitchcock on real kipper and born and hitchcock saying you know when you go into big games what you don't want is your team to be

dealing with newness new line new formations new whatever and so these are big games and so keep saying all right matthews and marner figure it out or you know that's kind of how it's going to go so i i gotta say i'm giving another bad grade to keith tonight i just i i really didn't like it um there were just a couple of moments again why after a timeout are you throwing tavarez over the board to take a d-zone face off when he's one of the slowest guys on your team. Like there, why was math where Matthews and Marner never really broken up at any points in this game to, I don't think it's a complete coincidence that McCabe had his worst game of

his entire Leafs tenure. As he gets cycled into that newness that you're talking about. Like one of Keith's biggest failings as a coach in the playoffs is not recognizing that Marner and Matthews need a shakeup. And it happened again tonight. And it works out again, a puck has eyes. It makes its way through and they get one on a power play.

That's pretty cheap. But I thought, man, William Nylander is going, he's got his legs. Try putting them with Matthews and see if you can have that infectiousness bleed off. Like have a player who can gain the zone with ease playing with these two

guys, instead of cali yarn croc who is like i don't know how many times tonight cali yarn croc just did nothing like it was this was the most neutral game it's remarkable how hard his nothing is oh my god it's just like wow you really are crushing this nothing thing he works hard he does can he just get a puck in deep though one time? Like can he just, when he has the puck on his stick and he crosses the halfway, like can he just get one puck in deep and not hand it over to a defenseman

who starts a breakout against the Leafs? I just, putting Yarncroft up on the top line, having it happen as long as it did, keeping Matthews and Marner together, shaking up the blue line that way, I just, I don't really understand what the thought process here is here anymore with some of this stuff man to give to give him some credit he did get kneelander with marner and tavar sorry marner and matthews a couple of shifts trying to shake it up that's the advantage of having the 11 so it is funny to sit here and talk about this game and all the guys that we

didn't love and you come out on top knowing how much more some of these guys had to give so i i just want to throw to the guys that i did think were good tonight mark giordano was excellent um really like if that cost them the goal yeah i like david camp uh a lot despite getting completely brained what a filthy hit that was um and you know so i like some depth guys i thought you know hall's fine lillian those guys were all right again tonight what's that i loved riley i loved riley again tonight i just thought he was steady how many minutes sorry how many minutes how many minutes you think geo played tonight 11 12 952 yeah you know what's funny is they they showed that his ice time to intermission he was over eight so we only

got out for another shift in the third period that's funny to me mccabe guys i think i don't know if it's the the bump down that shook mccabe the new partner that shook him but ever since the big hits he threw that then ended poorly, immediately a goal against and a penalty against he's not as aggressive. And he almost needs that. Like, I think you got to live with the risk of him trying to throw those hits. Otherwise he's just not effective. It feels like someone talked to him. Hey, like he's like, Hey man,

maybe just dial back those massive bone crunchers and neutral zone. And it's not, it's not, he feels like he's super caught in between what he's trying to do out there like he's active he's actively thinking about being aggressive and non-aggressive as opposed to just feeling it and what is he now in this series dash what like he has not been good and again tonight he falls down multiple times he loses the skate blade which is always a funny thing trying to get the guy back to the bench but yeah like athletic move though there

you know how hard that would have been like i was getting tired watching him do that no i know but i don't trust him at all and i don't i just i really don't like i've gone from full trust in him throughout the tampa series to watching him in this one being like, I'm really concerned when he's on the ice, which is not a good feeling. Cause he has to play a lot. There was a play in the third. That was actually one of the most concerning ones to me where he has the puck and he's like waiting to start to break out and he just doesn't move. And he just stands like completely. let's go forward yeah like he's standing back and the florida four checker comes in on him and just bowls him over and takes the puck and creates a chance and i'm going i i don't know what that what we just saw was like i like he

was standing there looking and waiting for someone he he looks like his confidence was shot he'd look like a guy that didn't know his d partner and I will say that it does remind me going back to why I don't like that move so much is when the trades first happened and the Leafs brought in so many new bodies, right? The, I remember having on a million people on my podcast, former players,

and everyone went, you know, a lot of these guys, skill guys like Ryan O'Reilly is going to be able to play anywhere. Nola Chari is going to be able to play anywhere. The interesting thing is going to be reps amongst these defense partners. Like it's so critical to be able to know and trust where your defense partner is going to be in big moments. And especially against hard for checking teams that come hard in the playoffs.

And tonight, like that flashback I was having from talking to former blue liners was like the number one thing that kept popping up for me with mccabe is all of a sudden you've gone from playing with tj brody where you know where he is and you know what he's doing and maybe they haven't been great together but to how many minutes do you think he's played with those other guys so far like this season since becoming a maple leaf like a combined what nothing he's not a time to be a lot yeah so i just thought it was a real risky maneuver and it and here we go again heading back to home ice and i'm wondering what the hell sheldon keep is going to do with these combinations it's just it's wild dude they're in round two it's games it's game five and they're going to be switching it up again the only the only sure thing which we all predicted

was luke shen and morgan riley like that's the only sure thing in this world is those two guys playing together luke shen should we the defensive play he makes at the end of the game is a game saver as carter saver across the net season saver you're right like wall is down he's on his knees for haggie is this far from getting that puck past the stick and just dumping it in the empty net um yeah run that sis if we can we'll take a look at luke shen's hero play here oh coming back here we're far back on this play that's all right that's okay we're just here you guys want to do your best to play it in doesn't go out here it is shen goes to block

the shot the diving two-hand tomahawk chop that gets the bounce. That's such a great read. Luke's troops, maybe like forever, man. I'm so petty with it. Like he made that play tonight. And I just,

I had to dial back to go to Twitter and be like, imagine being one of those dorks that got upset about the third round pick that went out the door for Luke Shen. It's like, imagine what Sandin did in that situation. That's what I'm saying is like, it's that's at this point, it's pretty clear.

Wow. Yeah. It just, from this playoff run, he's been the most important guy that they've gotten. Like, let me say to start the game, they had that area going on.

And there's a talk about that right now. Why are you doing this hey no no comment from the luke's troop uh the luke's troops no comment buddy he's he's got no foot speed and it's funny because i it's it's weird watching this series between these two teams because everyone talked about how toronto should be able to take advantage of Mark Stahl, right? And how, hey, Mark Stahl is really slow now, and you should be able to get him and Gutis and their blue line. And just Toronto is so much slower than Florida. It's not close between these two teams.

Sam Lafferty pops so much for Toronto because he's one of their only fast guys. Yeah, do Claire flies for Haggy flies? How did Gio stop duclair on that play like we should have clipped that and done an actual breakdown how does that happen because duclair didn't take it to the damn net yeah you know it's like it's such a hockey thing go at least get your penalty on the way there that's what i mean like if you cut that to the middle of the ice you're gonna geo's gonna fall someone's gonna fall you might that to the middle of the ice, you're going to – Gio's going to fall. Someone's going to fall.

You might blow up the only goalie he got. Like you never know. Like just take that to the net and he tries to go around. And for him to make the play and push him behind the net and then make the read to come out and – And not go behind the net. Yes. And he comes out and gets the stick out again. Yeah, Gio was noticeably good for the first couple periods.

Obviously, he didn't play much in the third. But, yeah, I thought he was pretty good so there you go worked out for them um it worked out for them i will say that when we're talking about like the core four guys though because and i do think we should just spend a little bit more time on it because we talked about matthews and marner i think enough it's pretty clear you're going to need them to play with more presence than what they had tonight again despite the fact that marner gets the big goal and the game winner and an assist that frankly is one of the most undeserved assists in the history of hockey like that that may have been unassisted yeah that well i was going to say

that may as well have been how you guys see gretzky telling that story about how back in the day they would just like tell the scorekeepers who got the assists on the bench. That, that reminded me of one of those. I was the kid in your team. We'd call it chisel, just chisel and assists. That's good. I like that.

But I just, I was really impressed with stretches of Nylander tonight. And I, I don't know what the hell you're afraid of it going away but is it too far afield to say that right now it just feels like he's the number one driver for the leafs no question he was the best best big core four member tonight by far like you know what it is for him it's his strength he's so strong the series has gotten tight and physical and he's so confident hanging onto the puck no one could get through him like the way jogger used to use his ass it's great yeah yeah

i'm just enjoying watching him play and and i do have this feeling like i wrote down a note in the second period that was like they've got their best combination of guys that i think they could have out right now and the guys were 44 92 92, 91, 88. Yeah, that's correct, I think. No, I was just going to say they had an offensive zone draw, and I was like, this is the combination that I want to see out here for this. I know Willie scored on the power play tonight, but I don't love him on the power play still. Like, him playing on that second unit it's just a weird

mix for him feels like he's got a little bit too much responsibility he's trying to just fire everything like i don't i don't know the fit for him on the power play but like it just feels i don't know the power play didn't get many looks obviously tonight but i just don't think he makes a lot of the smartest decisions on the power play bernie where are you on that i like it i like that they have a threat and they also throw him over the boards first, regardless of who changes. And Keith has said that. So it's like, whoever's coming, he's going out there.

So he may end up getting more than the rest of the second unit. And at the same time, the first unit works well, having a couple of puck recovery guys. I like O'Reilly's got a nice goal from Marner and one of their power plays. So I'm fine with it. I think it's a pretty good compromise for getting everyone their looks. I like giving Nylander more power play time.

Like, you've got something with him right now. He's a mercurial guy. I'm not messing with the most important time. He's a year away from a contract. He's been your best player. I'm rewarding him with the most important ice time and especially given that toronto's power play has struggled to gain the zone at times and what does he do better than anybody on the team he gains the zone and so yeah maybe sammy

the fit isn't as comfortable as it once was and i also am a fan of the rhino riley tavara's in front of the net kind of moving around piece of it but i i want him out there i want him out there and i want to like let him eat so so i may maybe misunderstood i don't like him like on this i think i maybe meant that he should be on the top unit like i don't know if like i don't like him driving his own one thought maybe he could be on the top is what i'm getting at sorry i maybe miss miss yeah my bad i just kind of meant that like i don't love him making all the decisions on the power play which it feels like he does on the second unit when it's out there so i think ryan o'reilly playing on his broken fibula like i've loved what he's given them

but i think it might be time to get to get willie neilander back up on the top unit because neil and uh o'reilly looks really hurt to me o'reilly won a puck battle with like 15 seconds left though that i was just like yes you know like he's just that he still does that he's still heavy on his stick but god he's laboring there's something wrong with his lower body i don't know what it is but it's not smooth out there right now when he's skating around it never was really smooth but he's really really hurting no he's like a guy where if you're in his orbit in his reach you're in trouble he's getting from you second you get outside of his orbit in his reach he's like a guy where if you're in his orbit, in his reach, you're in trouble. He's getting from you.

And then the second you get outside of his orbit and his reach, it's like, yeah. You know, he's like a sumo wrestler. He's like, if you're in tight, he's going to beat you up. You're going down to the ground. But if you can run away, he's not going to catch you. Got a few guys like that. Yeah, he's looking really labored i actually had a thought of i think you're almost at the point now given the way that camp has played and the way that ryan o'reilly looks that you're bumping o'reilly out to the wing and you're bumping up

camp's minutes and giving them 3c what do you guys think of that love it i i don't want to play o'reilly on the wing but i like the idea of camp more camps been really good i will say with camp he got trucked by kachuk the good is hit which was a board a charge a rough take your pick you can't let guys grease guys after the whistle um but you know he is a little hesitant he's playing great fast good decision to the puck he's involved i really have liked this game but there's a few times he gets the puck and someone's coming lately. And he's like, ah, just you take it. I don't want to deal with this. This hit is late and dangerous,

but there is something just so satisfying about seeing just a hit of that magnitude, right? Is that the hardest hit of the year? That is a nail shot. Like, I don't know if a guy's been hit harder than that. Oh yeah.

Truba on Meyer. I've hit myself on the wrong end of that in junior 13 times. Yeah. And he just got like. Truba has caused so many people to fill their diapers this season that he's like my favorite guy in the NHL. There's no one I like more because he just hits people, and it's very rare now, and it upsets the people who, like, I am very convinced don't really like hockey.

They like video game hockey, I think, maybe, or something. I don't know but uh that was just hard like that was vicious contact that's a car crash don't you have a heart like that's a person i i don't i like hard hits and i like oh my he got under the shoulder like he got the got the shoulder low enough so that you're right he like guided him with the shorter turned him like such he should be watching the next two minutes of hockey from the booth besides the sport keeper like i i have no like i don't think like we talked about in the intermission a little bit me when we were testing but i don't know

no i'm not offended by it like the whistle, like saying it's after the whistle, the whistle happened as he was two feet away, shoulder to shoulder. He's, that whistle, you might as well, like he did not hear that whistle. He's blasting him regardless of what happens there. But it should have been two. Should have been a two.

Four on four after the hold and the stick. I think we all would have been good with that. I would have said it was a charge, not roughing or, like if I was going to call it a penalty, I'm saying it's charging. I just – I don't think it's roughing. I don't think it's boarding. I just think it's a clean.

If it's not for the charge, like most of the hit to me is clean in my opinion about it. It's just like that violent force. You're like, you can't do that. But I understand your point. Yeah. But he can do that because he did do that he did it he did it and he got no penalty and no one fought him and well he would never fight and the next shift david camp got the puck when he came back in the third period he went behind the net and

gouda started angling him and he rimmed it out for florida the other way dude the the leaf should put zach ass and reese back in the game so gudas can turtle when he tries to fight him again he's the he's the he's the gudas he's the gudas whisperer they gonna get him in like he was pretty good for them no he's not going back where is he gonna play what's he gonna do no you just take out the guy you play nine minutes i guess if you don't want geordano playing yeah yeah but those guys in there and they they want to like i think they feel i i think that we're going to see the 11 and 7 the rest of the way here barring matthew nye's coming back right matthew nye's comes back the equation changes because now you can't take

lafferty out right like lafferty's in the lineup you need him in the series he just he's he's able to have an impact on it night in night out then you got to make a tough decision on offensive actually you know what this is a good spot to do another positive thing. It's like I liked Lilligren tonight, and I thought that he was crucial on the Marner goal. Like if we want to run the table, I thought both. Yeah, he just – it was smart, heads-up stuff for him in the O zone, which is sort of what you need if you're going to validate

or justify him playing in the lineup. I liked what I saw from Lilligran when he had the puck on his stick tonight and he played he played 16 19 tonight yeah and for him in 11 to 7 that's way more on the high side than he's been like when he's been in with 11 to 7 i think he's been down around 11 10 some nights so i think keith felt the same way as you bunk that he was looking the best. He's looked in the playoffs so far and he just confident with him. It's the confidence. It's the skating. It's getting the puck and going North.

And I thought he just looked good with the puck and comfortable tonight. I also think McCabe had been playing like 25 minutes a night or whatever the insane numbers have been. Yeah. And he's paired with McCabe tonight. That probably got them a couple more over the boards. McCabe did not play a lot tonight. Fell55 for mccabe yeah i was gonna say he's not he felt like he wasn't on the ice at all for like the the remainder of the period but dean chanel that's uh that's right that that probably is right i i just will say with lilligren to kind of close my point

on him is most games he plays especially in the postseason in fact I'll say every single postseason game I have seen him play there have been those moments where you go I shoot you guys a text right and I go and that's the end of 37 for the next game right that's a staple in the group chat yeah didn't see one of those moments tonight never had one of those just he spooked the life out of me with a bad turnover or a soft play in his own end. Just confident stuff. Right. Like you said,

Sammy. So I think again, if you're looking for real silver linings here and ways back into the series, you might've found something with him. He just, he seems to fit it and he gave them good minutes tonight. Hopefully he can replicate it.

Yeah. Uh, on the ways back into the series topic, a puck finally went through Sergei Bobrovsky. And I'm there. I mean, I thought he was really good for a couple of stretches of this game where I was,

I sent the text to you guys where I was like, Oh, he's still locked in. Like I send that text every five minutes though. It's just like, Oh no, I don't, I don't talk about Bobbroski that much i hate goals

i just thought he he looked locked in big time still like i don't think this was like that puck squeaks through him and it's gonna change him i thought he was excellent again tonight but the just didn't allow anything to the front but you just have to hope the more likely he becomes the guy he really is that's what i mean like you just have to hope here that you play enough games that he turns into the real brobroski that's that's your only hope because does the lead slipper fit try it again tonight yeah because he's had this is his best stretch of florida panther hockey ever by far yeah i don't watch all the florida panthers games but i would be hard pressed to think that he could have played better than he did in game two.

I will say that I'm not, I didn't think he was just phenomenal tonight. Like he let in a soft goal, the second one. And what was like, can, how many slot shots Borny tonight for the two teams? Because.

Happy to have that right here. Yes. Because I just, it wasn't exactly like he had. 7-2 Toronto at even strength. 7-2? For Toronto. Total in the game was 10-6 Toronto.

Yeah, okay. So even still, I'm thinking about some of those chances. I got to imagine that the couple of Matthews ones get in there, right, where he's going across the crease and he's barely got a piece of the puck. I just don't remember like a big Bobrovsky save tonight that he made where I went, whoa, you're right, Sammy.

I thought he looked confident in there, right? There was a couple of just plays where he just ended it. He just went, nope, we're not doing this. I'm on top of the puck. I got good positioning. He felt very solid in the net, but ultimately, again, he let in a soft goal

and I didn't think he faced a ton tonight, so it was his worst game. Let's maybe pivot this into Wall. Sure, but I just say part of that for Bobrovsky is have you ever seen the Leafs show less confidence on their rushes? They outchanced, or sorry, had five odd man rushes to Florida's one. They were awful to watch, like vile. Sick four on one tonight. Yeah, that was awful. Matthews and Yarncroft, they had some rushes tonight.

They may as well have dumped it in the corner and changed. Four-on-one no shot has got to be one of the low watermarks of the year. I'm sorry. Four-on-one is hard, though, because you're like, I have to pass here. You're like, I have to pass this. Well, you're like, you're like, I have to pass this. Like if I don't pass this, I am the worst teammate of all time.

Yeah. Just rip it. Just rip it. You're in the sweet spot in your sweet spot. Rip one low blocker. Like you do. And he was like, I got to make a weird pass here.

That's definitely not going to work. But Harlem Globetrotter passes here. And the yarn croc one to me where matthews and him are going into the two-on-one and he has yarn croc on his strong side right like he's like and he's like i'd rather just dump and change here than pass this he's like let me just risk this one into the corner instead of pass it to yarn croc who was apparently his best buddy for a long stretch of the season so yeah they're on band rushes tonight we're not pretty three more years of yarn croc he better have a moment here soon because i just it's do anything that is anything

you know what do a gustafson thing where you do a net negative that you know just a bad play that can pop up so people can have i miss all gustafson tonight it was less exciting without him out there we could have used a little excitement they should have they should dress seven every night and keep gustafson on the bench just in case they're losing and be like all right you get to play now oh by the way i uh i just received confirmation from my stats guy joe bow whose birthday is tomorrow who works on my show, that 21 blocked shots on Sportsnet's website is the correct number. So shout out to me. Wow.

A regular Stevie Fallon. Atta baby. That's right. It was very clear early on. I was like, how many shots? And I did the guess at the beginning, and I was like, this is going to be something that we're going to monitor here. By the way, if we're going to do MVP blocked shot of the game,

it's the Tavares one in the third. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, he made some good plays. I, you know, I understand he's not a fleet of foot, but he's played some good hockey. No, I really liked him tonight. I thought he responded well.

I love that shot. I love the shot from the net cam. It's always one of my favorite shots. And when the guy gets buried into the net and then they go to the net cam and it's like pointing up at him and he always just looks incredulous like he's like what what he was like hacking at brobroski and ekblad puts him in there he's like what's going on he just had that look at his face incredulous i love the net cam shot of a guy in the net one of my favorites in hockey ekblad has taken some liberties after the whistle around his neck this year. Oh my god, he's greasy, man.

He's really greasy. That's the only time I notice him. Only time I ever see him. It's like he shows up for those scrums. Yeah. He just appears. He spawns in front of the net. Crosscheck someone in the throat. Yeah.

At the end of the game, there was some liberties, eh? Got a little greasy at the end there two guys the Leafs have that do it Achari and McCabe got into it and all of a sudden you got Marner and crew going like ah really bunk what was your analogy it was so good oh uh yeah Marner looked like a little kid that couldn't swim in the pool and he was just staring at the lifeguard like please lifeguard get me out of here because when kachuk came over to him it was very very clear that he yeah and listen if matthew kachuk came up and started roughing me up i'd cry so good for mitch for even hanging in there for a second but yeah he was quickly just kind of eating some rabbit punches. And then, like he was, he was in the pool like, like big, huge breaths of air looking for the official.

And, I mean, he knows. Kachuk's like, well, I played junior with this guy. He's not going to retaliate at all. He's like, bang, bang. He lined at him. Yeah, he was not messing around. He saw the opportunity, took it. Yeah, we got to talk about Wall.

Okay. Yeah. What did you guys make of wall tonight i don't know and after all any impression of him yeah i do quiet did his job made the saves didn't make me nervous like he just played goal you know i don't know that that's like a crazy compliment, but Samsonov some nights is pushing into the corners and he's like a cat chasing a laser pointer in there. Like, well, just kind of track the puck. He stopped it. He caught it. Great. That's all you need your guy to do. He was great. I think, I think the zigzags goalie could have got a win in there tonight.

It was a quiet night. Yeah. Like I really didn't, like I thought maybe one or two really good ones. Would you say how many slot shots? Six slot shots? Like, I just – I didn't – I really didn't feel like he was in danger at all times. But I will say I feel no different with him and Nett than I do with Samsonov, like, in terms of trust. See, this is criminal. Like, it's like – what do you mean?

Like, I don't – like, I know Samsonov's been good, but, like, I don't have the, you know, I don't feel like this guy's way worse than Samson off by any stretch. I think that's where, no, I just, I need to just say, I feel for Samson off a little bit here because his team has scored two goals in six straight games. He's coming off of a series where i think that you could make a strong case that he was their mvp in the series against tampa bay like he was brilliant for them so many nights for sure yeah he out goalied andre vasilevsky vasilevsky was bad but to me samsonov has not been a negative storyline so far in the panthers series his team full of again star offensive players that make combined 40 million dollars are mustering up two goals a night and the other goal

he played really well in game two and deserves credit but all of a sudden he can't play he's hurt and the leafs play the number one block shot game of the century and don't allow a single like good for wall. I agree with you, Borny, like he's quiet in the net and he just, you know, he killed some plays,

no bad rebounds. Didn't let in a softy. And I trust him to Sammy. I'm with you. Like I like, well, I do think he's fine. I was advocating at the end of last show that I think he should play in this

one. Cause they need to spark. But I just think that against Samsonov has gone like really harsh that this is happening. Like Samsonov in the net tonight maybe gets the shot. You think a goalie's being mistreated by Toronto fans? What a shocking take. Wow.

No way. No way. I'm so surprised. You think a goalie's hard done by? I'm so hard surprised to hear that take from you. It's his actual thought. I'm glad you gave us, because if he's available next game, I'd be like, no, no, no.

But now that you mentioned that, it's like, yeah, boy. I don't know. If you were available, what the right answer would be. I'm torn on it, too. Number 60 between the pipes for your Torontoonto maple leafs joseph wall like no question like i don't think we talked we talked to peter labialet one bad goal a game for like too many games they they we had peter labialet on today and they talked about how uh brian boucher got hurt in was it in game three after they went down three nothing and out

of injury necessity they had to put in michael layton and they won four in a row it's like these are the kind of things that happen like if you're gonna have a big comeback it's a change of goalie it's a change of lineup it's this it's that like at this point you're not going back to samsonov i think maybe for the next series if you find a way to come back but like i think it's wall's net i really do and i think that may be crazy but i just do i do i think that's wild i thought the same thing going into this game but then wool made no spectacular saves tonight i do think that if samsonov's a net he gets the shutout he doesn't let in the one goal that happens that leaks through wool and i also just think this that samsonov this year was one of the best goalies in the nhl on home ice

and if you're talking about trying to steal this series and like if you're talking about a goaltender that is going to steal you a game he's one and four at home in the playoffs if you're talking about a goaltender that's going to steal you a game, I'm going to take the guy who has stolen them a bunch of games, has been great on broken plays, and has been huge for the Leafs all season long. I'm turning back to my horse. All right. I think we'll see.

I think you – who do you think is going to be right, Borny? I think Wall's going to play. I think they'll play Wall. JD has admittedly pulled me in his direction a little bit, but I need some time to think on this stupid post game show. I think it's stupid hockey though, where they're going to go with the whole thing of, you don't mess with the winning lineup is going to win over anything.

And they're going to say, wall has gotten the one win in that. And he did the job fine. So you're not messing with it. Plus they'll have the out of Samson off. If you weren't good to go for this game, how are you going to recover in two nights from now, plus the travel?

So I just don't know what Samsonov's health is, and I would guess that he's not going to be able to get 100%. And I just think that what you do is... I still think, like we said off the top of the show, that the formula for Toronto is going to be pretty much this game, just with a better, more dominant version of Matthews and Marner. And if you get that, and you see that in game two and they're or game two game five and they're able to get their second win man that's gonna be a lot of pressure on the cats all of a sudden like that

is i've been getting it from florida panthers fans non-stop because they go you don't give us credit the all eight of them that are in my you've been getting it yeah i know well he's the target buddy yeah you were you and i are targets there's no doubt about it by the but buddy like there's none of them and they're watching the show all grumbly i don't care like there was dressed like a seat night tonight at the arena for the first period like they don't care they couldn't get the they couldn't get the flag across because it's like yeah that's a full seat job you got eight people there so it's gonna be a tough one the towels on the scene aren't get the flag across because it's like, yeah, that's a full seat job. You got eight people there, so it's going to be a tough one. The towels on the seat aren't going to move that flag there, guys.

Yes. Sorry for it. Go ahead. I was going to drop a brand, but I'm probably not able to for sponsorship. But this is a double down. Let's put it that way from you. Oh, yeah. Well, I guess what?

Winner, winner, lose the series. Panther fans still no good yeah no i i don't think i think it's very let's put it this it's panther carolina in the next round i i don't think the panthers are selling out eastern conference games against carolina um but the point i was just going to make is tonight and hammer me all you want about it florida panthers fans, the number one reason why you feel good about the Leafs in the series is not about the Leafs.

It's not like, oh, Joe Wall might get hot. Oh, well, the Stars have more to give. It's like the Panthers suck. They're a bootleg team. They're nothing. Like, there's nothing special about them that you go, oh, my God, these guys are definitely going to beat you. Like, even Kachuk and Bennett.

They were bad tonight. The Pan were they pulled out bad tonight like that was a big that's that's one of the big stories we kind of buried the lead here panthers stunk out loud tonight like they were not good no they were not good like born tell me about it got the fawning media profiles for a few days uh no goals four games um that line everyone's like ah bennett cousins could chuck this what a playoff line is like the greatest line ever like yeah i understand matthew chuck's 110 point he's a unicorn of a hockey player you know he's unbelievable that lines compared to top lines around the NHL, it's good. Yeah.

They had zero impact tonight. They had complete nothings. They had... Basically, they won the narrative battle because they were coming off of the extremely hot series against Boston. And then in game one, they caved in the Leafs enough early on in the game that it forced Sheldon Keefe to change the lines again.

And that's been the story for them that's been their win like yeah Kachuk hasn't really done too much anyway I just Paul and Paul Rees nailed it absolutely if the Leafs are playing Boston they were down 3-0 and Boston was healthy right no we would be eulogizing them completely there would be that that glimmer of hope people feel around the Toronto Maple Leafs it's not Leafs it's a little bit about the Leafs but it's a lot about who they're playing and the idea that like hey if you were ever going to come back on a team and make this history happen and be the sixth team ever it's like because the Florida Panthers team that's kind of a one-line group with Verhage and a bunch of

pretty forgettable players five years from now yeah I yeah i'm feeling that for sure but i'm not getting ahead of myself here like and i and you know i did eulogize him so i don't know who you're talking to there like i did i've done it for four days so uh okay you guys ready for rapid fire are we missing any other big topic or Borny, do you want to talk a little bit about – I guess we did cover McCabe, right? We did that. Yeah, we're good. Okay, so rapid fire time. How did Bunting not get four minutes when he was clearly cut by Listerine?

Did he scratch himself? Did he have like something that he worked? I know, but did he give himself a little something while it was going on? Did he come up with that cut? He was like, uh, he was like stone cold Steve Austin at the 2001 rumble. He was like cutting himself. I don't know. It was weird. Like after a whistle, I, I wouldn't put it past him, but it is strange.

The man was bleeding. It's a four minute penalty. It's cut and dry blood yeah four dumb rule probably but it is a rule i i think the i've never really thought about how dumb the rule is and i hate that you said that because the second you said it paralyzed me with how dumb it is over here can draw penalties like every shift i know it's it's really great it's like the most canadian rule ever it's like oh you gotta cut eh it's four minutes for you i stand by the rule because we got that ovechkin clip that one time where he cut somebody open and he goes maybe he's got thin skin uh wait his backstroom gets to four minute and i and i that that mic'd up of ovechkin saying that to

the official is like actually my favorite ovechkin saying that to the official is like actually my favorite ovechkin moment ever so i just didn't understand it and i and i am kind of curious if we're going to get the explanation from keith like if a reporter is going to ask about it because i was pretty dumbfounded like the whole i've never seen a time watching the game where a guy got cut open on a high stick and he got two minutes that's a completely surface and they didn't see it. I honestly, I got nothing for you,

pal. Yeah, but they saw the blood. That's the rule. You called the penalty and then his face is bleeding. It's like, that's how it goes. Ref.

I, I just don't understand it. Any rapid fires from you guys. Maybe the timekeeper in Florida couldn't figure out how to change it from a two to a four or something. So they had to, they had to just keep it with the two. Sorry for slagging on Panthers again.'re i don't care yeah the 21 guy on the lever chart show who claims he cares

as much about the panthers as leaf fans care about the leafs is is there ever been a more delusional take than that guy like that's the number one most delusional take on planet what happened the panthers as much as leaf fans care about the Leafs. Like, buddy, you have absolutely no idea. I don't know. Brooks Kefka calling Ekblad a pylon because he loves the peas was a pretty strange thing, too. It's just tough. Any rapid fires for you?

Noel Achari, rapid fire, tough as nails. I do not know how he came back. That clapper where it hit him in the hand i was like oh my god that looked like it hurt so bad and i'm like oh he's done for the game and then the next shift i just see him sprinting down the ice full speed granite man plowing into somebody i'm like this this is just the hundredth straight show where my rapid fire has been appraised i love no achari rapid fire time love no achari. Rapid fire time. Love Noah Chari. Want him back.

Borny. That's it, buddy. I'm all out of bullet points. My last thing was just simply who comes out if Nyes can draw in for game five. Is Nyes close? Is that a possibility? I think so. I don't know.

They said it was like it's a concussion, right? And they said he was going to be ruled out from the two games because of the travel. But I don't know. If he can that who comes out a d probably for me yeah yeah i think you could make a conversation i don't think they do it but mccabe you could have the conversation no it's probably holler lilligran trying to make mccabe out to be a norris winner now you're taking him on the lineup like he's he played 12 minutes tonight he was awful it's game to game like yeah i don't know like you know he played three more minutes than geo did i i'm not you still have the ice time in front of you do you have halls i can i can look it up right now um but what a hauler lilligan probably if you can get knives in boy uh hall was 21 22 tonight

god see this is the thing he plays for them like nothing happened against tonight and hall played 21 something dude and of course everyone's quiet about him because he just did his classic call night where nothing happens guys i swear to god when keith took out justin hall it was just the two of them in a room and keith was holding his hand and they were sitting down and they wept together you know like they they cried hard he was like i hate to do this to you, my number one candy baby. You know I don't want to do this to you. But the pressure has mounted so much. You hear what they're saying about you, baby? I can't put you out there again. You know I don't think it's true.

You know I don't listen to what they say when we have to cry, baby. Are Hall's dolls back? Are Hall's dolls back, boys? Well, Hall did make the horrific, horrific read on that penalty kill game ago that cost him pretty dearly. So I think he needs a little bit more from Hall's dolls. But it's pretty evident that Keefe trusts the guy, and he looks at what he has on the right side,

and he says, yeah, I'm going to play you a lot. But it also does make sense, too, because, like you said, McCabe had a really rough night. You can't play Shen 20-plus minutes. you a lot but it also does make sense too because like you said mckay had a really rough night you can't play shen 20 plus minutes like leaning on him for that is where you get into the complete danger zone he already moves like a statue and so what are you all 14 40 tonight which is perfect for him yeah he is right where you want him around there 15 14 i think that hall's minutes are not so much a reflection of how good he is i think it's just a pure reflection of what the D is, like the other guys.

Yeah. Anyway. All right. Let's wrap this sucker up. You can listen to my podcast tomorrow. I'm on radio at 9 a.m. Subscribe to the JD Bunkers podcast as well. Subscribe to this podcast.

Subscribe to Real Kipper and Born. All those dude things. You're just trying to cover your... We we're gonna have more leafs all right it's gonna be leafs leafs leafs all the rest right here because they ask you guys right yeah where's the hopo meter at i gave you five percent on the show today that they would complete a comeback i'll i'll take it up to 20. oh bunk i thought! I thought I was going to be the highest on the Hopo meter. I was, I like, I get, again, this to me is just based out of. Yeah.

I'm so unimpressed by Florida that I just feel like, how could you not steal games from them? So I'll say the Hopo meter is 15%. Nah, it's a little high. I think I think yeah I'm pretty right around that same number like I think they're winning on Friday night I think Friday night is the game well okay

Friday night to me is almost like the series like I'll have the Hopo meter at 100% if they win on Friday night because if you're able to just like win in front of those fans that are going to be the tightest people on planet Earth who've paid, yet again, big money to sit in the seats. Just take another kick in the teeth, yeah.

Oh, my God, yeah. Oh, those poor bankers that are going to be down there caring so much. Yeah, just like, hold on, I think the game's back on. We've got to get back out there to our seats. Those guys. Oh, these figures, these business figures. Oh, is there a hockey game

we're making deals we're making deals here most sound vision of what like a banker discussion is have you seen the figures on the phone uh i think if they don't pee down their legs in game five and they're able to win it that it's just all of a sudden it's just it's it's like nothing happened you're just in a normal series like leafs being down three two that doesn't really scare me i think they could win two big ones so i really feel like if they win game five they're going to win game six and then the i've said this all along the most predictable outcome here is that it's loose leafs find a pushback they win a couple of these games they suck everybody back into the role the core back and then they lose in a heartbreaking fashion

where they get goalied in a game six or a game seven everyone goes well are you really not going to fire dubas down you expect the goals in the series where that's definitely yeah exactly some nerd is going to roll out a chart and tell you that the leafs got completely screwed and that they have to bring all the guys back and then we the Leafs got completely screwed and that they have to bring all the guys back. And then we're just in the torture chamber and I got to go live in the woods. And so the passion meter, uh, Barney, you're 20% bunk 10, 15. I'm high. I'm I'm think I'm really high. Like I said, I think they're going to win that. Okay. So then you're a hundred percent. The passion meter is at a hundred jd bunkus yeah like i don't know

what to tell you i'm from zero i'm from zero to i'll go 12 okay i'll take you welcome to the team yeah here's what i'll say the leafs are gonna be favored in every single game the remaining in the series the happiness hedge boys it's back it's back big money vets on florida for sure on friday night like i'm not having my friday night spoiled i'll tell you my brother's coming into town friday nice and then it's either gonna be a happiness hedge loss take that money to the bar after and be like i hate this team i can't believe i've ever even given my life to this team, or it's going to be poor, but go out and have drinks and go,

they're winning the Stanley cup. It's one of the two on Friday night, a hundred percent with the Buccas brothers. All right. So yeah, subscribe to our podcast at real Kippenborn, the JD Buccas podcast, hit the thumbs up for God's sakes. Thumbs up, hit it on the YouTubeunkus podcast. Hit the thumbs up, for God's sakes.

Thumbs up. Hit it on the YouTube channel if you're still watching this right now. God's sakes, you have to do it. It takes you one second. You're a scumbag if you don't do it. And follow us on Twitter and Instagram at J.D. Bunkus, at Sam A. McKee, at J.T. Bourne. Reach out anytime.

And we will see you Friday night after Game 5 back here in Toronto. Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching.