Real Kyper & Bourne - Brian Burke on Corey Perry, PWHL

Episode Date: November 30, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start by reviewing Corey Perry's statement before welcoming PWHLPA Exec. director Brian Burke (1:46) to weigh in on the situation. He discusses Perry's chances of getting back on the ice this season, the timing of Chicago's decision and how the NHLPA will respond. Later, he shares some insight on the PWHL as the inaugural season opener approaches and goes around the NHL's headlines. Finally, they wrap up with news and notes - Shane Wright stays in the AHL with Schwartz heading to IR for the Kraken, Ovechkin's goal-record hunt sees major hurdles and the questionable offsides review in the Kings/Caps game last night.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

come on in the real kipper and born show we are live on sports and sports at 650 in vancouver and sports at 960 in calgary this hour real care to buy bet 365 nick kiprios justin born sammy mckee Calgary. This hour of real Kipriyos brought to you by Bet365. Nick Kipriyos, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo, and James Wilson or Jimmy Willey. I will never call you James Wilson ever again.

You are just Jimmy Willey. Welcome aboard, Jimmy Willey. Plenty to get into as we uh broaden the horizons throughout the league we're going to welcome in brian burke in just a second but before that just to reiterate uh cory perry issued a statement within the last few hours i would like to sincerely apologize to the entire chicago blackhawk organization, including ownership, management, coaches, trainers, employees, and my teammates. I would also like

to apologize to my fans and my family. I am embarrassed and I have let you all down. You know what? I'm just going to... If you want to find it, you can find it on sportsnet.ca, but I will finish with this last paragraph before we get to Brian Burke. I've started working with

experts in the mental health and substance abuse fields to discuss my struggles with alcohol. And I will take whatever steps necessary to ensure that this never happens again. I hope to regain the trust and respect of everyone who has believed in me throughout my career. Once again, I am deeply sorry,

Corey. All right, let am deeply sorry, Corey. All right, let's welcome in former NHL executive and general manager, now currently the executive director of the Women's Professional Union. Let's welcome in Brian Burke. Hey, Burke, how are you, pal? Thanks for doing this. Thanks for having me on, Nicky. Hey, Burke, how are you, pal? Thanks for doing this. Thanks for having me on, Nicky.

Thanks, Justin. You know what? Just to follow up Corey Perry's statement, you know, everybody can find it on various platforms, no question. The one that stuck out to me the most is he hopes to regain the trust and respect of everyone. And it sounds to me like he's not giving up hope of playing again in the National Hockey League.

But where do you want to start, Berkey, in terms of your thoughts of what has gone on in the last week? Where do you want to go? Well, first off, I'm thinking about Corey. You've got a player who's under the substance abuse program or player assistance program. He's obviously battling some kind of issue, and I always worry about the player first.

Corey played for me. He's a great kid. This sounds like a real aberration from his normal behavior, and it sounds like he needs help, and he's getting help, and that's what I hope happens next. And so we kind of sit back here, Berkey, and wait to see, you know, the next steps, obviously his treatments will deserve a measure of privacy. Do you think there's a chance that, you know, this is cleared up

and then he's right back in the NHL at some point this season? Well, the whole program, the player assistance program, was designed for just that. It was designed to give players a chance to get back on their feet, beat the issues at least temporarily or permanently, hopefully, but deal with these issues and get back to playing hockey. That's the whole purpose of this player assistance program. And I think players or people tend to think these guys have these great lives and they make all this money and they're perfect they can't make mistakes when in fact it's a difficult lifestyle it's a difficult program to exist in and there's a lot of pressure on players and so when they do

cross the line and make a mistake we've got to figure out a way to get them back so yes that's what I hope happens.g i want to ask you something here and i i want to be sensitive about it but like you know what i've been through we've um you know we've had discussions and and all that there are times do you think there are times where people kind of use the program as pr cover it's it it feels sometimes insincere and i'm not saying that's perry's situation There are lots of these situations, but it just feels like every time someone acts up, I know it's going to be the next thing.

Do you think that happens in the league, or am I way out of my element here? Well, I think it's really unfair to the player. No one wants to cross that line. No one wants to say I'm a functioning, successful NHL player, but I need help, and I'm getting out of the program. I'm not going to play. I'm going to, successful NHL player, but I need help and I'm getting out of the program. I'm not going to play. I'm going to give up my career for a while and see if I can

fix this. I think that's really insensitive to say so much isn't it for cover and excuse. I think these are players with real issues and it's really hard for the average person who would give his right testicle to play in the NHL and he says, oh, a guy can't even stay sober? What's so hard about that? Berkey, if we take what you're saying on face value, over the years in any league, we've got a hundred of these comparisons. So where's Chicago to terminate his contract and kick him to the curb so quickly?

Were they wrong to judge so quickly? Well, first off, the league can't make that determination. My understanding is that the league will look into what's appropriate and what the next step is. And so, from my perspective, terminating the

contract before there's a full investigation is unusual and my guess is the legal say not so fast we'll decide what the next steps are we'll decide what the return to play is we'll decide who gets paid we'll decide who doesn't my guess is the union has a lot to say about this yeah and then i just want to clarify that this is not that's not commentary for me on Corey Perry. I just feel like every time there's an issue, I know what the next step is going to be, because really, as Kipper say in there, it's like if he does have mental health issues and substance abuse issues, this feels like something that previous incidents that blackhawks have been through the kyle beach scandal influenced what seemed to be i don't want to call it hasty but a very quick decision on perry i agree with that that was my reaction reading what was going on was as a very knee-jerk reaction the lead will take a much more different and tempered approach

and maybe the conduct justifies what happened. I don't know the facts. I don't pretend to know the facts. I know this. I know it's really hard for the average person to understand how someone who's making four million dollars and playing in the NHL can have a problem. But we do have mental health issues. We do have alcohol issues. We do have gambling issues. We do have drug issues. We do have drug issues. And our job is to put those players back where they can function. And this isn't my view as the head of the union with the women. This is my view as a former player and as a human being.

These players encounter real problems, and they have to deal with them. And the substance abuse program, the player assistance program, was put in effect for just these type of situations berkey since the moment he was pulled off the ice during a game to just up to a maybe the kyle davidson press conference which to me was just i think so mishandled where are teams in general of something of this magnitude um or your experiences over the years in terms of what you think your your team of pr or ownership can handle and where you might want to just make a phone call and get some firm or professional advice outside of your building. Is that common when something internal like this happens, that you might reach out to some professional help in terms of how to manage this?

Well, I've had players go through this. I've had coaches go through this. I've had to deal with it personally. I've been involved personally. The fact of the matter is the league has a great program. Dr. Lewis and Dr. Shaw run a great program for this. They know exactly what to do. They have expert help for mental health issues, for substance abuse issues.

They have ways to isolate the player, get him help right away. And there's a program for this. This is not an isolated incident. But, Berkey, I'm talking about Chicago handling this. I'm talking about ways to minimize the PR disaster, like dragging innocent teammates and their families through the mud. Well, I'm not sure that speculation in social media, we're ever going to get away from that.

That was disgusting. I'm not sure there's a way to prevent that, because if social media goes wild, they say and do what they want. I can tell you from personal experience, they write whatever they want. And so, to me, that's a different issue. I don't think the Chicago Blackhawks did anything wrong unless it was yanking him off the ice and terminating his contract, which in due course, the union may sort that out for everybody.

Kip, are you good on the Perry topic? Absolutely. All right. Bergy, I'll turn the page here a little bit. I wanted to just ask you about your new role, named Executive Director of the Pro Women's Hockey Players Union, and just give us a sense of

what we can expect. I think we're about a month away from the launch of this league here. How are you feeling about where things are at, and what can people expect? Well, first off, we're really thrilled. We're excited about the draft was exciting training camp opened up we're well into the training camp we've got a showcase coming up

at utica from the third to the seventh where all the players are going to come in and play and do clinics and do all kinds of things we're really excited about the launch there's been some negative stuff about the uniforms and all that and And I would say to people, we are trying desperately to get this league going. If that means we have to take some steps that look like they're not the ones you'd like to if you had 24 months to put this together, that's fine. We would rather play. And if we have Toronto uniforms and they're not the Toronto Maple Leaf uniforms, we're going to wear generic uniforms if we have to to get going.

We want to get going. This is the best league in the world. It's a new experiment and we're excited about it. So the next step would be we'll get the final rosters on December 11th. We'll elect player representatives for each team and then we'll get going with the season on January 1st. Forget uniforms for a minute. I just can't wait for your first striker lockout well we've got an eight year we have an eight year collective bargaining agreement so we think we're pretty i'll be too old by then to have that type of fun have you had enough time to still watch uh the league as closely as you ever have i still follow it very closely you know that we watch hockey every night so it's uh it's i'm excited to watch the women start playing i'm really excited

about the new role but in the meantime yeah we're still watching the game as closely as possible okay so just to follow up real quickly we passed american thanksgiving we know what that means to the analytic world in terms of who makes it and who doesn't. But what have you seen so far out of Alberta? Because Calgary's had a turnaround, and it looks like Edmonton's on their way. But according to American Thanksgiving, man,

they got a lot of catching up to do. Well, I would never bet against the players on Edmonton in terms of being able to reverse a poor start. I remember one year in Vancouver, we had a real poor start, and we played 780 or 760 winning percentage hockey the rest of the year and made the playoffs, finished with damn near 100 points. So with the players they have, I don't know what happened, why they got off the rails.

I like their coach that was fired. I like the new coach also. But I don't understand why they got off the rails, but they're back on the rails and look out. That's a dangerous team. And Calgary, I think they've had a good team all along. They haven't sorted it out. Now they appear to,

goaltending appears to be solidified, and they look like they're making a statement back. Berkey, in talking about the Leafs here, we keep running into it's hard to make a trade. This time of year, we're heading into December. What are your thoughts on

the feasibility of changing your roster at this point, 20 games in? Well, I think if you're talking about trading making major changes and bringing in impact players it's hard to do it's hard to do in a hard cap system where everyone's capped out and it's very difficult to change it you've got four players locked up with a lot of money that's been the problem from day one but i don't see how they get out of that problem i don't see how they do anything but re-sign Willie Elander

and see what they can do with what they have. I said that about two weeks ago. I said, I don't know how you talk about not signing this player now or moving this player now who's playing so well. So in my mind, they made that bet. They made that choice a long time ago. I think they're stuck with that. But I don't think they'll be able to bring in an impact defenseman, for example,

with the cap situation they have without moving one of those guys. And I don't see that. Berkey, I've got to ask you about your most recent team, the Pittsburgh Penguins, man. Kyle Dubas goes in there. He shakes the tree pretty hard and drops in an Eric Carlson. They're fighting that that 500 hockey here. What have you seen out of Pittsburgh since you've been gone? And, like, where do you think this is headed for them?

Well, I think the biggest problem they've got that I can see is consistency. I think if you ask the players, they would tell you they haven't put together four or five good games in a row. They had a good trip out to California where they won three, but they have not played up to their potential. And I think they feel they've been inconsistent, but they've got enough weapons. They can turn that around too. I wouldn't count that team out ever, not with Sid and Tanger and Geno.

Yeah, certainly enough talent there. A lot of teams are sitting there with the talent and trying to jumpstart the groups like the Wild, and, you know, we saw the Oilers fire a coach. What are your thoughts on these early season firings, those two in particular? It's just it feels like these were pretty good teams that just kind of had no other options given cap situations

and where they were at. Well, Nicky and Justin, you guys know my view on this I think the lack of patience with coaches and GMs is horrifying I think it's been a problem for a long time but I think it's been exacerbated greatly by new owners got owners now that don't really understand and they're too quick to pull the trigger. I think the changes have been overwhelming and unnecessary, and I think that what's really amped it up now is the chance to fire people, where people start chanting, fire this guy, fire that guy, which you never had as a result until a really extreme situation where teams were desperately out of it.

But a team, now you lose three in a row and they start chanting. So I think it's a real problem in our sport. But I think the lack of patience, I look at the teams that have been successful, have steady hands leading the charge. I think the math doesn't work. I've said this all along when they kept adding teams. They added Minnesota. They added Tampa Bay. They added this team. They all along when they kept adding teams. They added Minnesota. They added Tampa Bay.

They added this team. They added that team. They added Columbus. They added Vegas. They added Seattle. And all that did is make the math worse for the teams that were there. So when I was there, when I first turned, when Nicky first played for me, there were 21 teams.

So every 21 years you were expected to win. Now it's 32. And some of these guys are talking about expansion. So every 32 years, you turn to your owner and say, yeah, we did it. Do you think any of those owners understand that map? Because I don't. I don't think any of them do. Okay.

I got one to go against your theory on changing the coaches too quickly, and that is in Vancouver with Rick Talkett. I think we can look at uh what's transpired you know in the last what six months eight months for vancouver but no bigger impact than rick talkett changing the culture and the expectations of his roster that's where one has really worked so far, Berkey. Well, great, Nicky. You can point out one example. Good job, pal. Way to go. You make a great lawyer.

You find one good case out of 30. The fact of the matter is, I did an analysis on this years ago when I worked for Pat Quinn. Coaching changes have a little impact. Call it dead cat bounce, I think. So you make a coaching change, there's a short impact. Usually it does not change the fortunes of the team over time. That's historical. But I think in Toc's case, Toc is an unusual coach. I think he's exceptional.

And I think he got a goaltender all of a sudden who decided to play. So what's the difference between Gabby? Bruce Boudreaux goes in there and they're chanting, Bruce, there it is. And everyone wants to have a parade for him. Then they fire him and they're saying, talk to the guy. So it's the flavor of the month. And they're playing great, but they're getting goaltending is the number one thing.

And they made a couple of very substantial changes to their roster. Yeah, the one cup every 32 years thing does stand out. Something we've talked about in this show is just like some great players are never going to win a cup. How do you feel about the idea, let's say the Oilers were as bad as their start, about a guy like McDavid or Dreisaitl saying, I want to play somewhere where we have a chance,

or about Marner or Matthews if they don't believe in toronto whoever how would you feel if players in the nhl started treating it more like the nba and said get me somewhere i have a chance here well that started with with uh ray bork yeah ray bork harry syndon told me the story harry syndon said ray bork went to him and said, I really want a chance to win. Harry Sinden went to Ray and said, you deserve a chance to win. Ray Bork never raised the issue. Harry Sinden went to Ray and said, I'm going to try and get you. Where do you want to go?

They picked Colorado. They did not win that year. People forget. They had a game seven. The year they won, they had a game seven. That's how close they came to Ray Bork never winning a cup. And so what I'd say is, like, the Twins went. They year they won, they had a game seven. That's how close they came to Ray Bork never winning a cup. And so what I'd say is, like, the Twins went. They reached the finals but never won a cup. Are you saying that players don't

merit the Stanley Cup ring unless they win a cup? That's ridiculous with the math we have now. Jerome McGinley, he chased the cup. He tried to win and wasn't successful. So the fact of the matter is, that's going to be a with 32 teams, you're going to have a lot more stories like that. Perky, one more for me.

I wrote an article today in the Toronto Star on the core four and going back to the game against Florida. And where is that line between just saying that their scores score or trying to squeeze a little bit more of emotion out of them or even a little bit of nastiness or grit? Have you, over your years, players talented of this elk and trying to squeeze a little bit more emotion out of them, you've had your challenges there over the years?

Well, you can't turn a player who doesn't have grit into a gritty player. The leopards don't change their spots. A player who has no jam isn't going to start getting jam all of a sudden. Very rare. A few players have changed their style, but it's very rare. You've got to put those players in there that add that element, and it's just part of your game to change is the grit element. That's what Tree tried to do, bringing in a couple of the guys they brought in.

And it hasn't worked so far, but I still believe in that experiment. I still believe you need players. It's like I used to tell my players, and Nikki, you probably heard this speech. A hockey team is like a symphony orchestra. You've got a first file in, and she's elegant, and she's beautiful, and she has a spotlight on her, and she's got a nice dress on her. She looks great. There's a guy dressed like me blowing on the tuba,

and I'm sitting in the back row. And we don't start until we both sit down. So you need all kinds of guys to win, and then you need someone to sweep up. After everyone leaves the stage, someone's got to sweep up. You need players to do all those things but it also helps if you got a guy like i don't know ryan getzlaff too right well he was exceptional i mean he was a guy that could play any way he wanted to play

be in mind when it got crude he liked it when it was skilled so that's an unusual guy but you've got skilled players and they're important to the game they sell tickets but you've got skilled players and they're important to the game. They sell tickets. You've got to surround them with players that like blue-collar jobs. You know, when you called me a lawyer a few minutes ago, I got into this cold sweat where I was in your office and you told me that

if I remotely look like I'm in the running for the Lady Bing, you were going to get rid of me. Well, I used to give an award for every major award. I used to give a bonus for every major award except the Lady Bing, and the league made me stop doing that. Yes, I was a part of that. Berkey, great stuff, man.

Continued success with the Professional Women's Hockey League. Thanks for doing this. Thanks, guys. Thanks, doing this. Thanks, guys. Thanks, Berkey. Appreciate it. What a guy. Just gave it to me, eh? One example.

You give me one example. Yeah. I also botched my question to him terribly about the Perry thing, and I kind of want to walk that back a little bit. Just about how, I mean, obviously, Perry is going through something fairly significant here, and I didn't want to minimize that.

So I just wanted to clarify that. No, you're good. Yeah, listen. You lived it. You walked it. Yeah, well, that's kind of it. You say whatever you want on that. You've got 100% all of our respect.

Appreciate that. Thanks, pal. Okay, what do we got, Sammy? Well, you know, there's just a few things in there that I thought was pretty interesting. But Berkey, I mean, ultimately, beliefs aren't going to change, right? Like, every guy we ask that question to, they all say the same thing.

It's like, you're not going to change. Leopard's not going to change his spots. And Brad Nibbled on the sides, right? With the Ryan Reeves, it's like, that's really swinging one way. And then you try to find two guys in the middle with Max Domi and Bertuzzi. Like, Bertuzzi's a good bet there.

Yeah, it is. But like over 20 games, there should have been a level lifted for a style of play for the Leafs. Do you think you saw it down the stretch when they had O'Reilly and Shen and Lafferty and McCabe added? And do you think you started to see more of what you wanted? Yeah. I did. And then they kind of moved on

or weren't able to retain those guys. I think they tried to retain. Didn't Matthews and Stamkos fight? Yeah. It was the first fight between the 260 goal scorers ever and it looked like it. It sure did. The one that may have gotten away this year for the Leafs, Ryan O o'reilly like if you

would have thought of of uh your three scenes yeah instead of domey it's ryan o'reilly or even camp even camp's been not great he's not that great he's been bad he's a guy at two and a half we you know we don't talk about him much but wouldn't hate to see him get angry one day you know we talked with that contractor we're like, it's not that bad. He plays you all the time. It's like, he plays 16 minutes. It might be. Okay.

It's game time presented by bet. Three, six, five. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary. Bet. Three, six, five must be 19 plus. I'm care only. Please play responsibly. Now fellas, I'm going outside the NHL here.

I know you Kipper loves it when I do this, but this is something that's very relevant and will excite you. Professional Bowling Association stuff. The Shohei Otani odds. The odds on where people play opening day. The favorite is the Los Angeles Dodgers at plus 125. That's a pretty heavy fave. The second favorite is your Toronto Blue Jgers at plus 125. That's a pretty heavy fave. The second favorite... Come on.

...is your Toronto Blue Jays at plus 300. Wow. There is a better chance, according to Bet365, that the Toronto Blue Jays will land Shohei Otani than Connor McDavid wins the heart. I love that comparison. Okay. Now, yesterday...

That is not correct. Yesterday... According to the books, a beautiful sponsor. I said that the Blue Jays were getting played here. They needed another big fish to keep everybody interested and drive the price up. You still feel the same way. I'm kind of leaning a little bit to if this has any legs at all the jays have to blow this thing out of the water

absolutely okay so if you think you're in the 50s i'm telling the people upstairs 75 oh my god yeah that's how you blow it out of the water. You want them? Yeah. Listen. If he can pitch in here, it'd be different next year. The 15 million extra a year, nothing to these guys. We'll buy some extra shirts, we promise.

And this is, again, right across the country. You'll get that money back. Or even if you don't get it back, you'll minimize it. Right. Go get them, but you got to go 15, 20 million above everybody else. I agree. Yeah. I mean, hey, let's get weird.

You want to get nuts? Let's get nuts. Yeah, I still got a feel. Oh, Sammy, you're getting a little excited. I would be lying if I said I'm not excited. Well, listen, if you can't, I think my boy Andrew Stoughton tweeted today, like, if you can't let yourself go there and think about it,

like, what do you follow sports for? Enjoy it a little. I think I'm a naturally pretty pessimistic guy when it comes to sports. Oh. No, I think I'm pretty positive in other parts of my life. Yes.

I'll be the judge of that. I'm just looking down here at the odds. They have taken down the odds on Bet365. What do you mean? They are no longer up, the Shohei Otani odds. So something may be happening. Someone or something. Something may be happening.

It's happening. So I just wanted to put that out there. The actual hockey stuff I have for you guys is I was looking at the Stanley Cup favorites and I wanted to know who you guys thought were the Stanley Cup favorites. The number one favorite. Stanley Cup favorite right now is probably Vegas?

Nope. Kipper? I will say Florida. Rangers. Nope. Rangers. Colorado and the Rangers are tied at 8-1.

The Bruins are 9-1. Golden Knights 9-1 as well. And then it's Carolina, the Stars, and the Toronto Maple Leafs coming in one behind. Florida's way down, eh? Florida is 15-1. If you were looking for somewhere to find value, the Panthers would be a good place to start. No question.

Yeah. That decor is so good. They look like they could start a game one. Yeah. This week. They're humming. And, yeah, they're just, and they got just missiles out there. That Bennett, you played the clip of Bennett hitting. Who did he hit last year?

Is goalie Bob now, like, real deal goalie Bob? Like, if we... The fact that it's there still should be encouraging, especially in a league where you don't know who's what on any given day. It's like, I don't know, Aiden Hill, Bobrovsky, these guys can turn it on. They tell me, like, how old is he, 35? He's up there, I think. Sounds right, yeah.

They tell me he's got the body of a 25 year old this guy is just a machine really yes some say that about me too that i have the body of a 25 year old yeah in terms of muscle development a broken washing machine that's what you are and then uh just a couple games for tonight but we'll get into more news and notes but uh calgary flames are a pretty big underdog at home plus 110 don't mind that they've been playing better and the vegas gold knights were scuffling a bit we'll talk about that news and notes they are a plus 105 underdog in vancouver tonight it's a little value to have those two there mark strom expected to play tonight against dallas i watched radar the other night, and I'm like, I'd be pulling maybe a back-to-back on him.

You're liking him. I guess his numbers haven't been great all year, and maybe it's just too much of a one-off for... Yeah. Like I said yesterday, Calgary, we need some clarity on what they are. So they need to pick a direction and go there quickly. Okay.

And that was Game Time, presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary. Bet365 must be 19 plus, Ontario only. Please play responsibly. I saw someone tweet Sho-Jay Otani, which I don't like. It's a new nickname. Just, we gotta relax on who we're trusting here, okay? To all my friends out there that are firing me tweets from nobodies,

send me Jeff Passon, okay jeff pass and says show a otani is on the blue jays yeah you can tell me that text don't send me which one of our guys is gonna have it first i don't care whoever is legit i just don't need to read like you know i don't know i don't want anyone what are you saying you don't trust the internet you're correct it's almost like rumors. Breaking news. Yeah. Well, no. Anyways, let's just reel it in a little bit.

All right. Reel it in. We're going to take a quick break here. When we come back, Oilers and Jets tonight. Oilers looking to make it four straight. And also, a rule that we discussed prior to the show that I want to bring to air because you don't even know what I'm talking about? Well, keep going. I'll get there.

This is why we don't talk before the show, boys. The offside. There was an example last night during the LA Kings game and the Washington Capitals where Justin Bourne told me just prior to the show, enough's enough. I want this change on the offside rule. And I got to tell you, I like it. So stick around after the break and we'll dive into that one on the real

Kipper and Bourne show. Breaking down the top stories in hockey and Elliot Friedman every day. The Jeff Merrick Show. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. Some of those Spotify counters. What do you call that?

Spotify wrapped. Yeah. Johnny LaRue tweeted, it's official, Real Kipper and Born was number one for me in 2023. This guy was on for, let me just take a look here. He's listened to 174 episodes for a total of seven days and 17 hours like how is he not sick of us i guess probably i get sick of me yeah well hey i get it again i i just can't believe people do and i appreciate that yeah it's nice okay we uh. My goodness! I don't know if you guys like them, but God, they're great for my ego.

I like them. Yes, doesn't hurt. Keep sending them. I mentioned Oilers and the Jets tonight. So in a matter of eight days, I don't know, roughly eight days, where was Connor McDavid in the scoring race? Page three. I think he was 91st, and now he's ninth, if I'm not mistaken.

I had him as low as 103. Oh, really? Yeah. Like eight days ago. Yeah, that sounds right. Where is he now? He's T9 with Leon Dreisaitl, who you may have heard of as well. Pretty good comeback.

Not bad. Player of the week? No, because you know what happened happen nikita kucherov had six points against carolina get this so they win eight two against carolina kucherov is on for eight goals four only 27 times in nhl history um from dom lucision have a player has a player been on for eight goals kucherov's done it twice he was on for eight goals? Kucherov's done it twice. He was on for eight goals. So on ten shots. So his team got ten shots while he was on the escort eight times.

Six points. He might be the player of the week as well. He's pretty good. Pretty good. 37 points first in the NHL. Shout out to the Montreal Canadiens with their win over the Columbus Blue Jackets last night. One of those teams. They don't fully suck.

Which is much better. Montreal doesn't fully suck. According to the standings, there's 28 teams that don't fully suck. They're all the same team. Montreal has some decent players. I'm not shocked by their results.

I don't know if I said it loud and proud to start the season, but they got some players. Matheson's having a great season. 10-10. I think St. Louis is doing a good thing. Last place in the East start the season but they got some players that matheson's having a great season 10 and 10 like last i think uh st louis is doing a good thing last place in the east is 16 points that's not many yeah but i mean the first playoff spot is 25 so it's like okay yeah you could still get there from last place it's within striking distance well not within striking distance but you know

like look at it like there's just a schmozzle here there's not a ton of god the sins aren't bad why is it the sins the jackets are bad jackets are bad sins are not what is going on with the new jersey devils here guys that just this is a team that if we saw them number one in their division, nobody would have been surprised. Yes, Jack Hughes was out of the lineup. He sure was out of the lineup. But this is a team we still expect, or maybe we don't expect anymore. Yeah, I still expect them to be much, much better

than they've been. Okay. God, I hate that clip. The Penguins and the Devils, to me, are two very good teams quite a ways back. The Red Wings and the wild card spot probably in some trouble there still, but Pat Kane, maybe that'll put them over the edge.

We mentioned on our Toronto Maple Leaf Hour of the Real Kipper and Bourne show that Mark Giordano is out week to week, but Shea Theodore also is out week to week for the Knights. And Jaden Schwartz, who took a shot in Chicago, I believe is probably on his way home or will be sent home. He is,

he also out week to week. And you know, what's really kind of funny now is that they don't necessarily tell you week to week. They just say not day to day. It's really goofy. It's getting more vague seattle last season finished i believe fourth in the nhl in goals for per game they're 26th right now burkovsky's out schwartz is out like if they just can't shoot it into the net and so it's going to be tough for them to win hockey games like that and tough to see where the goals are going to come from.

Interesting with Jaden Schwartz out of the lineup tonight. They called somebody else up from the American Hockey League. Someone not named Shane Wright. And I find that really interesting. Marion Studenich? Yes. He's playing, I think, his first NHL game tonight. But, like, I get it that you want to leave him alone, but, I don't know, throw him a bone

or just whet his appetite a little bit, bring him up? When I was with the Marlies and the Leafs were bad and they wanted to call people up, they made an effort to not call up the players who they wanted to be there for real, for real sometimes. Because they wanted to, once they call up Kapanen, they wanted him to be an NHL player. Or Connor Brown.

They didn't want to call him up, send him down, call him up, send him down. They wanted to call up the guys they knew were NHLers when they were ready. But they would call up Tobias Lindbergh to go play games or, you know. Colin Greening. Yeah, Colin Greening.

Great example. You know, they would call up these guys that they didn't see. They didn't want to jerk them around. They wanted them to focus on just having a steady, solid season. So maybe there's something there. Don't test me on my 2015 least knowledge, pal. You know, you'd be disgusted. Weird how impressed by that. The other thing, too, is your head coach has to be on board here.

And I don't get that out of Haxtell in Seattle. He's not a right guy. I'm just saying that. He's the wrong guy. Sorry. It doesn't make any sense for them to call him up to only have the head coach play him six and a half minutes. Yeah.

I get that. How do you feel about Nick Robertson in Toronto playing seven minutes a night? Oh, he's a Toronto guy or Burlington? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, maybe call him up, throw him a bone. He's a top pick playing in Toronto.

I know, but it's to Justin's point that they want him to stick here. They want him to be byfield. Yeah, but by the way, if you ask Shane Wright, he'd say, yeah, send me up and down. I don't care every time I'm collecting. Let me play in the league, man. Let me show you I can do it. But he's having a good year in the AHL for the Coachella Valley Firebirds.

He's got 12 points in 13 games, 7 goals. So maybe they just want to keep his momentum going down there. You know who's been good for them is that Vince Dunn. Yeah. He is their best defenseman. Yeah. You guys want to talk about the offside thing? Yes, I do.

Okay. So last night, by the way, a really impressive low-scoring, non-Ovechkin-scoring game by the Washington Capitals. Like, what is their record, by the way, with like OV not looking and scoring like OV? 11-4 or something like that. Where are they at? 11-6-2 now.

11-6-2 and beat a pretty sound hockey club. Oh, yeah. LA is so good so good can where we should look to their odds they gotta have a like a shots on goal like i i don't think ovi had much more than two or three shots like we're not getting ovi like eight ten shots nights anymore no and that really showed his dominance that he was all over the puck he was around it so shots on goal two shots last night two yeah and how many minutes 20 uh 13 whoa 13 37 he played 22 and 23 minutes the two games prior okay do we i i didn't watch closely but he had 13 minutes so i don't. Maybe he got hurt or something last night.

But yeah, he has no points in his last four games. He's got five and seven for 12 points on the season. His goal total is tied for 125th in the league, and I think he has two empty netters. I'm not mistaken. He does. You don't think... It's happening.

What's that? It's happening. It's happening. Barney was right. Gretzky must feel like Jack Nicklaus felt when Tiger Woods got hurt first. Yeah. Just like, you know, I'm suddenly not as sure I'm going to get caught for this all-time record. I actually think that is a decent parallel here.

Yeah. I get it looked like for sure Woods was going to blow by Nicklaus. Until he hit a wall. Yes. Oh. I get it. You know know and it's been around forever you want a canadian to hold on to that record and wherever you are politically i get it it's hard not to feel that right with ovi yeah of course to break gretzky's record but there is a part of me that says like he's been so good for so long and i'm not sure

how i feel about this like i who doesn't love gretzky but i can't get there he said it records should be made to be broken gretzky's said it himself now deep down does he want to keep it probably from a selfish human point of view i get it i'd want to keep it but at the same time we will never get anybody close to this ever again will we ah that's fine matth Matthews is tracking. But Ovechkin, in terms of Ovechkin's early career, Ovechkin just needs to me to have the title of the greatest scorer of all time. But not the actual number. Right, because I think the era he played in

was different than Gretzky's era. That's fair. He's the greatest, but not the most pucks went in the net off of his stick. Right, but if there was way more pucks going in off everyone's stick when the goalies were wearing, you know. Listen, I'll die on this hill. I've hated Ovi since the tinted visor at the World Juniors.

I've never been a very big fan. So I don't want him to have it. Straight up. I'll be honest, I don't either. There's a lot of, there's a large portion of his game that has brought me over to and listen winning the stanley cup and hearing barry trotz describe ov's uh transition to a guy that looks like he could just score goals and probably think about himself more often than not to a a guy that was willing to do whatever it took to win a Stanley Cup.

Yeah, that earns a lot of respect. Do you think, like, Tiger has Charlie Woods on the way? Sergei Ovechkin is going to be bombing pucks into the net soon? That's going to happen scary fast, by the way. What's that, Charlie Woods? You know where Ovechkin's kid's like, oh, he's 14. The scouts are already looking at him. Yeah, he's 18 or something. He's lighting up the dub.

So, we kind of derailed a little bit, even though it's not off the rails Friday here. That was a big time right now. During the game, you had pointed out that there was an offside that lasted how long before the whistle? One minute and five seconds. The LA Kings had ozone possession time before Kopitar scored a beautiful goal to tie the game.

And then you had mentioned to me that there should be a buffer or a statute of limitations in terms of when you could go back. Yeah, and go ahead. No, you finish. My thinking on this is just, if it's a rush and someone's offside, obviously, obviously, blow it down, whatever,

and then wave off the goal. If it's, you know, a play that happens after a rush, the ensuing scramble, whatever, blow it down. After everyone's back in the zone, you're into 20 seconds, 30 seconds. The other team's had the puck. The Capitals have had the puck for, you know, of possessions maybe that's what it is like the other team getting possessions can can negate it or something but at some point they were playing competitive

hockey against the kings like it was real for a minute and a half or a minute and five seconds before the king score it's a goal against you you shouldn't just get that there should be after whatever we decide 20 seconds 30 seconds two touches that was too long to go back and say actually it doesn't count i see and i am totally on board with that we don't get that on the show very often not to be agree boys here but like bang on it's absurd it's against the spirit of the rule like it's it's something i brought up with like baseball rules and stuff it's if they're the game. If there is incidental contact on a goaltender, he gets time to reset. That's right.

And then it's irrelevant. Yeah, once he's back square. When a referee feels like he's had ample time, so should an offside. What's the difference? That's a really good parallel. What's the difference? I think we just fixed it.

Right? Yeah, we did. Well, hold on. The hard answer then answer then okay so now we're the league do you want it to be touches or time time time time for me you got 20 seconds after the yeah you can even push it to 30 if you want but to me over a minute it's absurd to me it's when the official deems uh subjective subjective imagine that in play just so we need more gray area when he deems that the recovery is there that yeah that it's it's no longer relevant to what's moving from this moment forward it's irrelevant it's just another maybe missed call so people want want, hey, black and white.

If it's offside, it's offside. If it's not, it's not. But where else is there black and white? No, you're right. It's all penalties are subjective. Incidental contact. It's all where you look at it and you make a judgment call. Going back for icing and who's winning the race is subjective.

If we back 10 years ago, I don't know if you guys remember, but it was Matt Duchesne's breakaway, Colorado versus Nashville. Yeah. Where it was, and the word that they used was egregious. Egregious. Egregious. It was egregious. And guess what?

They were right. It was egregious. Even Duchesne thought it was egregious egregious it was egregious guess what they were right it was egregious even duchesne that's it that's what it should still be because that was a goal scored on it that affected the game and that's where it should be used but once there's that recovery period then just let it go like anything that was subjective anyways yeah yeah no i i think that it's just dicey right it's game seven there's an offside goal it happens 24 seconds after the you know the guy entered the zone west mccauley sees the leafs and he's like oh i better call it i guess yeah it's been it's been a minute and three seconds but sorry i still think it's we're gonna go against what i also wrote today where I'd rather leave the three-on-three where it is than shot blocks and all of it.

Just pick the worst out of anything. Pick the best of the worst? Pick the best of the worst is what I'm trying to say, yes. And the Leafs have had a couple exciting ones recently where it gets a little stretched out again. It was like that at the start. The first three years of three-on-three was, maybe not three years, but maybe two. It was incredibly exciting because it was just breakaway,

two-on-one, two-on-one. There was no coaching yet. There was no coaching yet. But now it's just, I actually, when Willie brought it out of the zone last game against Florida, I was like, oh, I slammed the desk. It was actually, I thought, an unnecessary time to do it too i but you're not gonna change i'm finding interesting too is that now people are starting to care on uh where your points are coming from and oh yeah where it's like the leafs five regulation wins out of how many now the leafs have played 20 games

20 games and i think nine have gone to overtime yeah and they've gotten a lot of points in those games if i'm not mistaken but what's abundantly clear is that you guys can't find ways to win a 60 minute hockey game that's kind of the big picture well you're looking at this point of the season for signs that give us a better indication of what teams really are than their record goal differential is really good. Goal differential is really good there. Regulation wins is really good there. And obviously, you know, by those metrics, having done Leafs show, they don't grade out great.

Plus two and you got eight wins in overtime. Regulation overtime wins total. The leading teams in the league with regulation wins are all the good ones. Right? Canucks, Colorado, New York, LA, Boston, Florida, Vegas, Dallas. Like it's the cream of the crop. regulation wins are all the good ones right canucks uh colorado new york la boston florida vegas dallas like it's the cream of the crop and then you go all the way down to the bottom 14 games tonight boys 14 it's a lot a lot of give me a quick score here at least look after seattle seattle's soft eh well then that should be right up the Leafs alley, according to your

theories today. There's no way the Leafs slay an egg in a weekday game against an out-of-conference opponent. No chance that might go wrong. Uh-oh. What's going on? Am I getting a call? What's happening? We're literally listening to your phone on what's happening right now.

Nothing. I just missed a call. Oilers. Oilers and J give me give me a team uh oilers oilers are humming right now a lot of goals how about that score fast vegas vega good test vegas coming off a couple of losses to uh teams in alberta yeah vegas is actually kind of scuffling a little bit their Their last 12, they haven't been very good. I like Vegas. Alright, enjoy your games tonight, everybody. We're back tomorrow. Our thanks to

Brian Burke and John Forslund for their time on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. And once again, if you get a chance, give us a rating, a review. Where do they do that, Sammy? I don't even know. Everywhere. Spotify, Apple, the internet. Sammy says

anywhere. Write good things about me and then just poop all over these two guys. Sounds fair. We'll take the reviews. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. We're back tomorrow on the Real Kipper and Boring Show. Have a great night, everybody.