Real Kyper & Bourne - Brodie Hits IR + Star or Superstar

Episode Date: January 10, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne, and Sam McKee begin with the news that TJ Brodie will hit the IR and what the Leafs will miss in his absence. They are joined by NHL Network's Mike Kelly (21:36) who shares some thoughts and analytics on Auston Matthews' underwhelming goal-scoring pace, Morgan Rielly's struggles and whether or not Calle Järnkrok can be a long-term solution on the second line. Then, Sportsnet's Ken Wiebe joins the show (41:17) and goes deep on the Winnipeg Jets, the reason for this season's turnaround, the Rick Bowness effect and their financial future inspiring more urgency. Later, former NHL pro, agent and GM Brian Lawton of NHL Network discusses the 'buyers market' ahead of the deadline, who the Leafs should target and who may become available (1:03:54). Finally, Kyper, Bourne and Sam play a game of 'Star or Superstar.'The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590 The Van. It's Tuesday. No Leaf game again. What's going on? Aren't they supposed to play every other night for us? They had a nice rhythm going and now it's all messed up. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Derek Brandeo, Jen Rolnick, Sammy McKee, all with you for the next two hours as we tee up Toronto Maple Leaf News.

Nothing. We tee up nothing. You got breaking news on a call-up? We do. That's a big story today. I got to admit, i needed to google the name well i'm here to tell i can fill you in a little bit and tell me when you're ready for that chat i'm i'm good to go i just a quick note that uh we got mike kelly in this hour and then uh in the

first uh 20 minutes we'll get to him can we ofbe, of course, Sportsnet contributor based in Winnipeg. We have not given the Jets enough love. It's time. We go Leafs. We talk McDavid. We talk Bo Horvat in Vancouver. Nothing on Winnipeg. Canadians don't exist. Neither does Ottawa.

Those days are over. It's the Jets time. Can I... Do we talk about the number one team in canada out west or number two which one is it jb well i mean the jets yeah jets are number one okay that's it let's chat them up what do you what do you want about jammy i just number one or two uh they're the number two team i want to give a quick psa um i know there's lots of men and women that listen to this show that probably play organized hockey of all kinds. You know, they play shinny, beer league, whatever kind of hockey you play. Last night, my buddy Dave was wearing a visor.

He took a really vicious high stick straight in the jibs, knocked out his two front teeth, cut his lip wide open. He went in to get zips today on his lip had to get caps on his teeth yeah bloody mess all over the ice it's no fun put on a put on a cage you don't look like psa from real kippern born show you think you look cool wearing your visor out there and you're you think you're looking like you know you're in the nhl just put on a bird cage and it's all avoidable it's my quick PSA to everybody who's listening to this show. It's terrible. It's a terrible scene.

What are your thoughts on that? Yeah. Do you wear a cage? I can't see you wearing a cage. So you go no, you go nothing? No. Or you go visor? I wear a visor.

Oh, come on, Kip. Just put on a cage. You've got a beautiful face. Why do you do radio every week with TV? I'm not against what you're saying. The question is, do I have enough gumption to actually go do it? I know. I'm a against what you're saying. The question is, do I have enough gumption to actually go do it? I know.

I'm a busy guy. And when I'm not busy, I like to just rest. You can't go to the mall for two minutes? There's no window to put a cage on. Oh, my God. So I'm playing college hockey. It's like my second year. And you got the cage on. You come back in the summer and you play with the pro guys.

It's not cool to wear a cage. So I take my cage off. Playing with no cage at all. My mom finds out I'm cageless. And she goes, here is $80. Go buy one of those nice visors. Put it on. At least wear a visor in the summer.

I take my mom's money and I go buy a really nice basketball. It was really good. That day, that same day that I bought the basketball and playing three on three, your maybe old teammate, Mike Ridley, is on the ice with me, and I pass him the puck. He's in front of the net. One times it right back in my schnoz. Broken nose, 20 zips.

Karma. Ouch. Wear a visor. I'm going to a visor. Sorry, wear a cage. I'm going to a cage. Connor Bedard did all of that with a fishbowl mask. I could never do fishbowl.

I could never do fishbowl. You can't feel the wind in your face. It's terrible. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but he was mandated to wear the full visor because he's considered an underage in the tournament. Yes. Still? Yes, because Sid had to do it too.

But he could go back to junior, score four goals the next game with a half visor right the i i i hf is a little tighter a little more protective i do sympathize uh with the cool kids remaining to be cool i get that feeling out all the guys in the parking lot after the game they're all in their feelings like boys next week i'm putting on a cage that was gross i don't want to see that again yeah anyways that's just i wanted to bring what do you think that's uh the sticker price on uh your your buddy's face that's with a dentist with no insurance well no the i mean not to give a shout out to the league but the part of your league fees is you get some you get a rebate you get some money for sammy said

you get like 1500 bucks or something on the league i was like 1500 that's free coffee in the waiting room that's what you're getting with that rebate that's off the back of a match book uh better than a kick in the pants of the frozen buddha yeah go get uh some root canals go get a couple of caps you know my you're you're in 10 grand my dad recently got some work done some long-awaited work some root canals. Go get a couple of caps. You're in 10 grand. My dad recently got some work done, some long-awaited work from his years in the NHL. The NHL PA was kind enough to cover it. His total

cost of dental work was $30,000. Yeah. We'll see. A couple of front teeth, you're okay. Throw a couple of crowns on, he's probably two grand or something total. It's a really nice used car. That's what it is. You could buy the lease on my Toyota with that, for sure.

All right. The Leafs announced TJ Brody is on injured reserve. Are we surprised with what has been going on with that blue line all season long? Yeah. You know, I was saying to sammy the the reason the brody one hurts though is because he's not one guy he's two guys because he makes whoever he plays with a better defenseman so you don't just lose brody you lose what he does for justin hall or for morgan riley or whoever so it's that's a big absence for them do we have a sense of uh

like how long this is gonna be do we have uh we got a we got a kipper's clipper we got our first clippers uh clipper clippers clippers yeah sheldon keep on tj brody yeah like i like i had alluded to he's he's has been playing through something and um he got a few extra tests done yesterday, and it's something that's just going to require a little bit of time to settle. So I think rather than him continuing to play through that, we're just going to get him on the IR and give him some time to recover. Do you have an idea on the length of time?

Nothing too long. Okay, nothing too long. So ribs, not the same as the oblique injury from before but that's a pretty similar area not sure if you're familiar with the anatomy yeah of your ribular region i'm gonna throw something out and you tell me if this ever crossed your mind and i i just think about like the tj brody and i'm like, okay, they're kind of settled in. Morgan's back, and now he just disappears. And it's an injury that is really conducive with somebody maybe looking at the Leafs going, I'm taking free shots at all these guys.

Like, that's an injury where you're going after this defense that isn't big. They're not strong. They're not mean. Why wouldn't I want to just go run the crap out of TJ Brody? And, yeah, to the point where I can knock him out with maybe some sore ribs. I think that that's possible because I don't see anyone to prevent that for sure. But I also don't see that that has been happening necessarily. Like I can't recall incidences where I'm like, God.

I saw last week Giordano get absolutely pasted. Yeah. And I think in the back half that it might get worse. It might get worse if they just start looking at this lineup and say, who's going to say anything to me who's going to challenge me who's going to come back and and tell me you just don't get free shots on these guys yeah i do that's the only thing i would worry about in the back half you know i worry about that in in big games big situations playoff series for sure i

feel like everyone is a little less motivated to take it to someone physically in some of these games. But, I mean, who knows? I don't know. To me, with Brody, it's a concerning trend. Because he is incredibly, like Borny was saying, he's basically two guys. Like, whoever he plays with is better and himself. I just, I hope, because he's been pretty healthy his whole career.

He's played a lot of games. Like, he hasn't missed a lot of time. I just hope this isn't the sort of aging curve and he's going to be the type of guy that's in and out of the lineup because they can't afford to have him not be at his best heading into the playoffs. They can't afford any of the five-plus-million-dollar players disappearing out of the blue. But I would say of all the defensemen who are most important to the team,

I'd put him at the top of the list, wouldn't you? Would you say he's the most important guy? I think going into a playoff series if you have to be without morgan riley or tj brody you got a really tough decision on your hands yeah yeah i wouldn't disagree on that one i morgan's gonna hopefully find his yeah high level here we know his good is he has a higher ceiling than any of the other d brody included his his good is something other people can't do but right now brody is as important as anyone back there you are absolutely right yeah so hopefully it's not like the oblique thing where it kind of lingered and took longer than they thought and he gets back in soon enough but at

least connor timmons is back in he gets some run now with the Leafs. That's good. I think this is where it's nice to have the depth of your decor. You lose a guy and you can put in another guy that's shown to be really capable, especially offensively. I also wonder if Ben doesn't get back in soon just because it's been a while and he's been nothing but great in his times. He's one guy that the opposition wouldn't necessarily look at and go, you know i want to take a healthy run at uh jordy ben yeah that's i i think i might put him in tomorrow night i think

i think that would help right now to be honest with you yeah and and given what he has brought when they have asked him to play really hard to say hey timmons is going to be the guy who plays and plays and plays. Obviously you want Timmons to get on a roll, but you need Brody or sorry. You need Ben to be able to play come playoffs and feel like he's had a season and some stretch of play at some point. I just think what he represents is,

is something that is important until you can address it closer to the trade deadline. Yeah. Yeah, I can see it. Speaking of injuries. What's going on with Matthews? Well, that's a great question. Maintenance day, but we don't have a real specific answer. He didn't practice with the team today.

Are you reading between the lines on Sheldon and what we're about to hear? Yeah, I don't think Matthew's going to play tomorrow. Let's get that sense, maybe. Yeah, just baiting his day for him. We'll see where he's at going into

tomorrow, but nothing which he's concerned about at this point. We'll see where he's at tomorrow i don't know he just didn't want to say that he's not gonna miss the game they got two in a row right it's wednesday and thursday this week it almost feels like to me sometimes at this point of the season it's good for the team to get someone in who hasn't been in and get a little bit of excitement and i don't know math is another day for the last week week and a half including my uh the article that i wrote last week

to me it's about managing the next 41 games knowing that you're kind of locked into this position right it does give you the flexibility to allow TJ Brody, whatever he's going through, maybe an extra week. You know, I mean, if we're in a game seven situation, maybe even TJ Brody plays. For sure. I totally think so. And Austin Matthews now, like you're facing Tampa Bay.

You know that. Yeah. And the team should be strong enough where you should not be in any risk of i shouldn't say this but you know you're you're hoping that home ice advantage still matters to you and you should finish ahead of tampa bay yep so i got a pretty healthy lead but albeit tampa has games in hand but so if currently up eight points if austin needs a day off give him a day off yeah you get 40 42 goals 47 goals i really matter yeah and you know you want to win these games but you know it's

not like they're playing murderer's row this week or anything. I think it's an okay game to let him take a knee for a moment and see what he can do. Bring in Bobby McMahon. The great Bobby McMahon. I had to Google him. You know what all I cared about? Tell me. 6'2". 6'2", 210.

Good enough. Good enough. So did you ever play, and I know you did did you played to some guys who were freakishly ripped like just like absolutely cut out of yeah that's bobby mcmahon he's that he's colin greening was that for the leafs for a little bit and when i was at the marley's he was there he's another guy like that um and you like a milk bottle oh kind of like a milk bottle like a bag of milk yeah that's me um you know it sounds like skates puck pretty well shoots it really well which is good um don't know that he's maybe the

best defensive center on the team he's not going to be pontus holmberg necessarily but he plays special teams in the american league pretty good guy in the middle it sounds like sounds like a guy that everyone really likes wants to have success obviously didn't quite have the start to the year that they had hoped for him, but a guy that they had hopes for nonetheless, even as a bit of an older guy. Do you want to listen to Sheldon on him? Yes.

Let's do it. Let's do Sheldon on him. Well, the first thing is, like, he's a player that we really like. You know, he was signed, I don't know what it was, the end of last season or off season or whatever it was, but we were really excited about coming into camp and really wanting to see him compete for a spot. I think he had as good a camp as we were hoping for, maybe that he was hoping for even, which maybe showed the fact that despite he's an older player, if that was his first NHL camp with us

you know he wasn't in camp the year before and had a great season with the Marlies and you know had the injury early season this year and then since he's come back it just seems like he's hit he's hit the ground running and has really found his game obviously player of the week coming off a huge week so the fact that we had a roster spot to be able to call someone up it just made a lot of sense well he's got that positive momentum in there to bring him back and get him in in our mix really strong and fast in a straight line so not like a dipsy doodler do you like that strong fast straight line big yeah his last uh five games we got two goals no goals one, one goal, one goal, one goal.

You know, like he's shooting it in the net for them. 26 years old, never played in the NHL before. Right. I mean, 20 years ago, this would have been unheard of. You know that, right? I mean, once they... Still super rare. You haven't played a game.

No one's ever looked at you, taken you seriously. At his age a while ago, you would have just been like, not a chance he'll ever see the light of day. But salary cap era and looking at guys in a moment kind of frame instead of big picture allows guys now to have a taste like this, which is nice. Do you think that part of this is just a reward for the player? He's been a good soldier.

He's been good for the Marlies. I don't know. I think there's still too many people that are selfish enough to say, if he can't help us, then I don't care about that. If I don't believe that he is the best choice in this particular moment what do i care if i make a guy feel good or not if he doesn't help me win yeah i know sometimes those guys in the minors they're like he's not gonna play for us so let's throw him a cookie keep him happy keep him you know maybe i i don't know i i like i don't think the

guy's gonna play for the leafs in the playoffs this year or anything but you know he's i don't think the guy's going to play for the Leafs in the playoffs this year or anything, but, you know, he's... I don't know. This is a crazy game now, man. I put nothing past. Montez shocked us. I put nothing past. Doesn't he kind of look like off-brand Morgan Riley? Look at the picture.

Kind of look like discount store Morgan Riley. Is that what you see it a bit? Okay. Morgan's got better feathers than that guy. No? I think it's nice that they can just make... That they... You know, there's a long time where they never really use guys from the marlies and like before this sort of era of lease hockey where

it wasn't used like the way it is now yeah and it just you know they always remember when shanahan took over and talking about using it like grand rapids with um with detroit yeah and how they had so much success doing this it really does feel like does feel like if you're down there and you're playing well, I think the incentive is really there for those guys that you're going to get a shot to get in and play with the Leafs. Don't you think? Yeah, but the system is really supposed to be that you are producing blue chip great guys yeah i look at this marley team and for the most

part the bobby mcmahon's uh i mean these guys are like seat fillers right at the academy awards they can come in make you kind of look like you're okay but are they difference makers can they come up and make a difference and then shut the door that to me is a criticism of the draft they're not having high-end draft picks yeah more than the marlies themselves because a lot of these guys what was this what was mcmahon drafted i wasn't drafted wasn't drafted you know so it's like they're they're making chicken salad in some cases not to be whatever you want the system to work like tampa bay before they became the the real tampa bay lightning remember with it was a palat palat calorn calorn tyler johns tyler johnson like and then they they come up now the leafs had a little bit of that with willie

for half a season with the marlies connor brown zach hyman right yeah brown captain hyman right and that's are there any are there any connor browns or or zach hyman's uh on the marlies right now where you can go okay they're just putting in their seasoning and they're cooking by next year you know that they're going to be everyday nhl players. I don't think so. It's probably where Nick Robertson should be playing, but we shall see where he ends up. Alex, Steve, like Steve's, would he not be a little pissed off seeing McMahon up before him now? He had a taste, didn't he?

Yeah, Steve's, I mean, they got a couple of guys who've seen little bits. Dargan Chinsev was up for a little bit. Abruzzese was up last year. At the end of last year, they tried to make him a guy, right? I mean, Joey Anderson has been, I think, good when he's played for the Marlies. What interests me is Adam Gaudet. Adam Gaudet was a guy, 15 goals in 24 games.

He was a guy they thought at the start of the year would be a player for them. There's another one that's probably really pissed off today. You know what I'm curious about, too? So he's got 15 goals in 25 games. He's foot 195 and a left winger like it is curious that he hasn't gotten a shot obviously it speaks to how highly they think of uh mcmahon more than anything but you'd think he'd get a look at some point but that's what 27 something like that so they got guys that can come as you mentioned beef seed fillers just knowing yeah that's going to come and move the needle in a big way. All right.

We mentioned Willie Nylander's rise out of the Marlies to the Leafs to star. Super. Super star. No. Star. Star. Yes. Stars.

There's like, how many superstars are in the league? 15? I don't know. 10? That's a really good question. To me, if you're at 15, it's not a super level. That'll be a top 10 guys or superstars. How many guys in the league?

700. All right. We're going to go through all of them right now. Starting at Anthony Aardvark. I want to go through a little bit of this star or superstar with the three of us. We won't do it now because we're moving along. We've got, I think Mike Kelly's going to join us. If I'm not mistaking, Sammy's disappeared to go find him.

He's calling him now. I do want, I want to go through some names that are on a borderline here. Nika Zibanejad. The good one, right? That was a good one. We're not ready to go just yet. But that's an interesting name.

Yeah. Willie Nylander is an interesting name. Sebastian Ajo. That you would go star or superstar. First of all, before we do that, and before we get to Mike Kelly, you got to think about how you define between star and superstar.

All right, enough of that. Let's go to hockey analytics specialist with the NHL Network and SportLogic, Mike Kelly. How you doing, man? It's been a while. Where you been? You dumped us? I'm doing well.

Thanks, buddy. I was traveling around a bit, seeing family over the holidays and in New Jersey for the end of the world juniors. And now I'm back home in Montreal. So all is good. How are you? We're good. Let me ask you something as we look at the halfway mark and the trends that you see the first 41 games and the ones the first half to the second half,

or do we see tighter, more meaningful games and guys kind of slip a little? Good question. Year over year, you see usually at the start of the season, because it's the start of the year, and as players, you guys know that, things can be a little squirrely in the first couple of weeks, results-wise and all that and then at the end of the year you see a little bit of the same as well because a number of different reasons some teams are just out of it they're playing young kids uh teams trade guys at the deadline and and don't have the same rosters so the middle section is where you tend to see kind of truer results as you go on. It's why you hear a lot of people say

wait 20 games to see what a team is. That 20 through 60 is probably the best indicator of half your season, 40 games-ish, of what a team might be. But things are starting to level out now. Obviously, this year goals continue to go up. Power plays continue

to be unstoppable virtually. Goaltending is tough to find elite goalies. We've seen that trend for a couple of years. So that's kind of what you typically notice. Mike, if you're a Toronto Maple Leafs fan, you're looking at the division. You got Boston, Toronto, and Tampa Bay doing what they do yet again.

Is there anything that you're seeing that any of these teams are, are they in a tightly knit sort of pack or is one of is boston is as far better as their points total looks or is one of them worse than the three where do you have those three teams yeah i i think the standings are you know pretty good reflection boston to me is the cup favorite they're number one like lena salmark you look at his record, is he 21-1-1 or something?

It's ridiculous. So the goaltending has been good. The team defense, their blue line is fantastic. They're big. They're fast. They jump up into the play. Their forward group is terrific. They've had a great third line this year in addition to what they do in the top six.

I don't see where you're poking a lot of holes with that team. Tampa Bay, you know, sluggish start. And, you know, again, some injury issues. And they're starting to look more like Tampa Bay as the season goes on. And Toronto's been, you know, they've been really good. But we've seen that story. So I was thinking about this earlier, and I'm sure you guys have talked about it already also.

Like, it's halfway through the season. You can pretty much lock in Toronto and Tampa Bay in the first round, it looks like. So that's what everybody that's a Maple Leafs fan is waiting for, right? Yep. It doesn't really matter what they do. They could win 39 of the last 40, and they'd probably get first place if they did that. But you know what I mean? It doesn't really matter.

It's like, get that playoff series started, I mean? Like it doesn't really matter. It's like get that playoff series started and, and that's what it's about. Yeah. Mike, want to ask you about Austin Matthews and his, his pace right now for a 40 goal season, which is incredibly underwhelming when you come off a MVP 60 goal season. But for the most part, I think he did catch fire in the second half, if I'm not mistaken, that his numbers actually have not been that far off

of what he did last season. But regardless, are there other aspects of what you can see the numbers to say that, yeah, it matches that he just doesn't look as dominant as he did last season. There is, and it's not jump-off-the-page alarming, but you're right. There are things that tend to be excellent indicators of how much a guy should be scoring, and you factor in their skill set as well. You can look at league averages, but you can also look at lawson matthews possesses a shot unlike many players and his elite in terms of being a goal scorer but you know last year he was right

at the top of the league and things like expected goals which i know you guys love so much uh talking about the models um but know, it factors in shot quality and really how much you should probably be scoring. Just a more general thing, so where are you getting your shots from? The slot where 75% of goals come from, the inner slot where half of them come from. Matthews dominated those areas last year.

This year, he's still very good. He's sixth in slot shots, but last year he was first. Inner slot, he's top 15 as well, but he was a little higher last year. So he's still a great shooter, great scorer, gets a ton of chances, still on pace to score a lot of goals. But, you know, being around hockey your whole lives, you guys have probably heard this one too, right? There's a difference between a 50-goal scorer and a guy who scores 50 goals.

I think there's a difference between a 60-goal scorer and a guy who scores 60. I don't know that anybody in the league is a 60-goal scorer and a guy who scores 50 goals. I think there's a difference between a 60 goal scorer and a guy who scores 60. I don't know that anybody in the league is a 60 goal scorer where you can expect that every year. I think Austin scored 60 and you can bank on him getting 45 to 60 in any given year. This might just be closer to 45. Looking around, you know, I'm going to keep it with the Toronto Maple Leafs for one more question here the um i'm curious about morgan riley and you know he's a guy who we've talked about quite a bit on this show now starts making 7.5 next year kind of a big ticket deal it's a lot

hinges on the leafs you know when you go up against great teams like tampa and they got headman and boston's got mcavoy or lindholm or whoever you like is their number one what do you make a riley season so far this season i know he's been hurt um but you know it seems to me that they're struggling right now or he's struggling a little bit and not quite having his best show yeah i think that's probably fair um there were times in past seasons where for spurts like that there's a few years ago i don't remember which one, but his first kind of 20 games, I thought he was in the Norris conversation. Like, really good start. I think when he's playing at that kind of,

the top level that he can, he's, you can kind of think of him as that number one, true number one defenseman, but maybe overall he's not that. And I know Leaf fans have been talking about this a little bit this year as well with Riley, that, you know, maybe underperforming compared to what they've seen in the past or what they expect from him.

So I do think that's fair. I still don't view him – you guys are just talking about stars and superstars, right? If Hedman's the kind of guy you're looking at as that's a number one defenseman, I don't think Morgan Riley's in that class, obviously. But can he be a good enough one on this team? The kind of guy you're looking at is that's a number one defenseman. I don't think Morgan Riley's in that class, obviously, but can he be a good enough one on this team? I think he can. And you just look at, yeah, he missed time with injuries and he's only played, what, 26 games, I think, this season.

So maybe that's some part of it, right, where he hasn't got that consistency in his game. But you look at what the Leafs have done defensively this season, it's, you know, they've been a good defensive team for a few years now, but this might be the best they've been defensively, and he's still a part of that. Guy who eats a lot of minutes, right? Mike, we've had a lot of conversations in the last little while

on Yarncroft playing with Tavares and Marner, and I'm just wondering now when you see a guy like yarn croc and we know he was signed as a depth guy that can certainly jump up in the lineup if needed but is there ever times that you look at a guy like yarn croc who for the most part is projected to be in your bottom six is there is there enough evidence analytically statistically that says that this guy now warrants top six positioning to even go to a stanley cup playoffs can you be talked into can i be talked into yarn crock from what you have what you can gather to be that guy that runs shotgun

with Tavares and Marner in the playoffs? Great question. The line's been good, and I'm real hesitant to give too much of that credit to Yarncroft. I mean, look at who he's playing with. And I don't want to take anything away from the guy. He's been fine there.

But I look, you know, kind of those things that you're talking about, Kipper underneath, and he's not the guy driving the line. He's not the guy driving the chances. It's the other two. So what he is is a pretty responsible player. He doesn't turn the puck over very much. You know, there's good defensive parts to his game as well. But I definitely kind of think he's a byproduct,

or that line's success has been a byproduct. Marner and Tavares, almost entirely, more so than Yarncroft, has been doing a lot of the heavy lifting. So it's not always easy playing with star players and playing in the top six. We've seen lots of star players struggle to find wingers to have chemistry with,

and players that they can be successful with. So I give him credit, certainly. But I don't view him as a top six guy. I think he's just in a great spot right now, and he's playing well with two really good players. Mike, I want to get your thoughts on a couple other teams and if their spot in the standings is legit or not. The Winnipeg Jets, who we're going to talk about today,

are second in the Central, first in terms of winning percentage, and the Florida Panthers are not good. Are those two teams, are they, is it fair that those teams are where they are in the standings? I don't think it's fair for Florida. You do? Because I don't think it's fair for Florida. I think, like, goaltending has really

sunk them this year and you know what they haven't been great defensively they've been kind of average but you know they produce so much in terms of offense and chances and everything like that uh and they're not scoring as much as they should either so some of that blame can be laid there too I guess um I I you know I don't know a, a month or so ago, I said, you know, I still think this team could compete certainly for a playoff spot, maybe even get into the top three. And the goaltending just hasn't come around. And you know what, I guess they could be better defensively. They haven't been,

it's not killing them. They've been okay, but I think it's too late for them. I think they're missing the playoffs at this point, which is crazy to think considering last season. Winnipeg, I absolutely think is fair. I love what the Winnipeg Jets have done this year. There's not too much deviation between what they're creating offensively and what they're scoring. It seems sustainable to be kind of where they're at.

And defensively, they're second in the league, I think, in goals against average. They've improved their team defense so much. I give so much credit to Rick Bonas, the coaching staff there, also to the players who seem to be buying in for the first time in a while. And I don't know why that wasn't happening with past coaching staffs and different rosters in previous years, their team defense has been so much better.

They're not getting caught running around on their own end and bleeding chances and defending all the time. That's been a huge, noticeable improvement. So I think the Jets are legit. I think the Jets could not only finish near or at the top of their division, but win a round or two and make some noise in the playoffs. One more for me, Mike, and that was going into this week. Some excitement about the Buffalo Sabres maybe making a push here,

and then they go loose to the Philadelphia Flyers. Like, come on. What is wrong with Buffalo here? Is it a foregone conclusion that we're just, we're dealing with the three in the east now? I think so. I think we're dealing with the three in the Atlantic. In the Atlantic, yeah. Yeah, and then five in the Metro.

And it's tough schedule-wise to get a five and three. It doesn't happen a lot. But the Metro is so strong. And look, Buffalo, they're scoring four goals a game. I mean, that offense is absolutely electric, but I don't want to use the Philly game as an example because they were just really bad in that first period. They got a shot 16-5 and had some awful turnovers.

But they're not a very strong defensive team, and they can get decent goaltending, but UPL there has been I butcher that every time but that one was pretty clean. Who could call you on it if you didn't get it right really? Sounded good to us.

Yeah no Buffalo look I think there's still other ways to go and not too far maybe but to really be a true competitor we know they can score but they struggle to defend still. And I'm with you. I think it's the three Atlantic teams and five in the Metro. All right, Mike, the last one for me.

Just want to, you know, love reading your stuff and seeing you on camera whenever we can. What are you working on these days? You got any, what do you got your nose in for the analytics these days? Anything you're working on? Ah, Good question. Nothing kind of big picture right now.

Just doing a lot of kind of halfway through the season, looking around. One thing that I just did for the NHL Network, and I guess people want to see it, they can go to my Twitter account, was looking at just anomalies at the halfway point of the year, like things that just don't make a lot of sense. Mark Scheifele, he had, when I did this a few days ago, nine assists and 23 goals. His playmaking stats were like top 10 in the league,

just through the roof. And I'd start watching video, it's like guys missing the net, guys hitting the post. He's setting up all these great chances. So that's one that I think will correct itself, and he'll have a lot more assists with guys coming back. The other one real quick is Connor McDavid and shocker to nobody, he's scoring a ton of goals off the rush this year, but he's actually scoring more than he really ever has. He scored last night his 17th goal off the rush, that great takeaway in the neutral zone.

He's never scored more than 19 in a season, and he's halfway done this year. So, you know, we talk about he scored 34. He could win the Rocket. He's never done that. He's never scored 50. How's he doing all these things? He's even better at the thing that he's already the best at,

which is pretty crazy to think about. Mike, always a pleasure having you on the show. Really appreciate your feedback. Appreciate you having me on, and enjoy the rest of it, guys. Thanks. Thanks, always a pleasure having you on the show. Really appreciate your feedback. I appreciate you having me on and enjoy the rest of it, guys. Thanks. Thanks, Mike. Appreciate it. Mike Kelly.

David's going to have 50 goals by February. Yeah, and they may miss the playoffs. Good point. What is... That's a tough look for Ken Holland. If Evander Kane meant that much to your season, that you lose one guy in the Miss Playoffs in a crap division. It is great what Evander Kane brings you, but it's the blue line.

Blue line's awful. Cody Ceci is not a top two defenseman in the National Hockey League. You know, listening to stoffer yesterday talking about how much they miss duncan keith is like you know yeah i i guess they do but it is it does remind you like how thin they were that keith was so important to them they got nurse and cc as a pair kulak and barry as a pair broberg and bouchard as a pair like no one defends particularly great in that group kulak i guess i just i'm just hoping for the report this summer after they missed the playoffs just from you know somebody's somebody's twitter account mcdavid's had enough david mcdave rumblings of

conor mcdavid unhappy unhappy with uh with the way the team has run. Yeah. Oh, give it to me. Did we do Sheldon Keefe on McMahon? Did we play that already? We did. Yeah, we did that one. Oh, God, I just totally. Whatever. He's such a remarkable guy.

If, in fact, JB's spider sense is hold true here and you don't see Matthews, we'll probably see Nylander play center. Really? That'd be great. That would be wonderful. He did that in playoffs against Columbus. Yeah, that's when Keefe was really getting tricky.

It was like Keefe's first year, wasn't it? Yeah, he got tricky. Game five, he put Tavares Marner and Matthews on the line. Yeah, and he brought back Andreas Janssen, who hadn't played in six months. I was on board with that at the time. For game five. Yeah, Robertson was in. Yes, and he was an infant at that point.

He was an infant. Yes, he was. Well, he's playing center. It was child labor. The lines are Bunting, Nylander, and Engvall. Jarnkrok would stay with Tavares and Marner. Kerfoot, Kampf, and McMahon would play together. And then Aston Reese, Holmberg, and Hunt.

Yeah. So what do you think? Nylander, Bunting, Engvall? What? What do you think of that line? It doesn't make any sense to me. You know, like just in terms of, unless it truly is just a placeholder in Matthews, definitely.

And what would that line, when would you use that line? line's purpose that's your second that's your second best line you do here right tavaris marner and yarn crock would play i guess you start them in the ozone neilander bunting and engvall and how do you not start neilander you're right in the off neilander's on starting in the offense. It's a top six line. Yeah. Justice for our boy Holmberg. A center goes down and he doesn't get to go into the top six? Come on. Let's see what he can do up there.

Get him in there. Push for Pontus. He has there's been a bit of a slide. Just a tad. No. He's been perfect. Just a tad. Perfect Pontus. Kipro never let us just put on the rose glasses and see, you know, pretend someone's flawless, eh? perfect. Just a tad. Perfect Pontus. Kip will never let us just put on the rose glasses and see, you know, pretend someone's flawless, eh? Yeah.

Just a slight. I don't mind him kind of pulling the reins in a little bit on Holmberg. You got 40 games to build this guy up to be an important guy. He took a bad offensive zone penalty against the Flyers. He stuck his stick in a stupid spot. The trip. The trip. Yeah.

That was the first mistake I've ever seen him make. What would Aston Reese have to do to get out of the lineup? There's not one thing he can do. All right, we're going to take a quick break here. Ken Wiebe is going to come by, sports net contributor based out of Winnipeg. We're going to get in deep on Winnipeg. And, yeah, we're giving love to the Winnipeg Jets. Because I did write them off.

What's that clip? From when they beat the Leafs, the Jets. Oh, thank God. Oh, nothing better than beating the Leafs. I thought that was my clip out of my kitchen. Yelling at you, Theo? Yelling at my kid. My kid, that wasn't it.

And then Brian Lawton is going to come by in the second hour and we'll get into a deeper conversation on tanking for Bedard. All right. So much more. Meat on the bone, real Kipper and Bourne, back after these words. We're going to welcome Ken Weave momentarily, but I got to tell you, I'm really getting excited about our star or superstar conversation coming up a little later on in the show.

It's an important disclaimer. Which are you? Let's welcome in. Ken, thanks for joining us. Really appreciate your time. And I got to be honest with you, since Sportsnet kind of brought you on and stopped ignoring the Winnipeg Jets, they've taken it to another level, man. time and uh i gotta be honest with you since sportsnet kind of brought you on and uh stopped

ignoring the winnipeg jets um they've taken it to another level man they are they are fun to watch oh yeah so you're not blaming me for last year's uh struggles no no uh nicky i appreciate that starting now since i was full time okay perfect okay don't don't don't give the credit to rick bonus give it to me yeah exactly i'm there for it so when when we look at the winnipeg jets now what's what's the biggest what's the most noticeable thing that stands out on their success for you is it the man you just mentioned yeah rick bonus uh being able to get the buy-in, especially structurally, defensively. Obviously, they have one of the best goalies in the league in Connor Hellebuck,

but as Mike Kelly said, they're not bleeding chances the way they did last year. The high danger chances, the great A's were off the charts last year. This was a team that was very good offensively, but didn't care particularly much when they didn't have the puck, at least if that's what it seemed like to the outside um obviously we've known they've had offensively gifted players for a long time but uh connor hellbuck playing at an elite level but you know this is a team that's commit more committed defensively uh their special teams have improved dramatically and they got a top five penalty kill and even though their

their power play was hindered by the fact that seven guys out of the lineup but i mean it's a team that that is much more committed without the puck and rick bonus has just done a fabulous job of you know demanding accountability and nikki you played on some teams sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before you're ready to really be coached and i think maybe that's what the not the jets weren't rock bottom in terms of being you know 30th or 32nd. But they had some lofty expectations that weren't met. And I think they were a little bit more open to the suggestions that Rick Bonas had when he arrived on the scene here. That's actually a natural transition to what I wanted to ask you about, which is Blake Wheeler

and what his relationship is like with the team and his role on the team as someone who is stripped of the captaincy to start the season. It felt like there may be some conflict there you know the big contract where are things at now with Wheeler and the team yeah Justin I mean Blake really handled this like professional obviously it would have been a big blow I mean this is a guy who took enormous pride in being

the captain I mean he was one of the first Jets to buy a home in the community I mean he's been here all 12 seasons took enormous pride in wearing that C, but I think he's the kind of guy who put a little bit too much at times on his own shoulders. And I think that one of the things Rick found in terms of his conversations with other players is that they wanted to have a little bit more of a

communal approach to the leadership and, you know, having three alternates rather than one captain who had a very strong voice, I think has really helped. Blake, obviously when he showed up on the scene, he said, you know, if you think I'm just going to shrink into the background, you're sadly mistaken. And he's backed that up not only with words and leadership, but also in terms of his play on ice.

I mean, prior to his gruesome injury, he was producing at nearly a point-of-game rate. And, you know, he's a guy who's provided, you know, offense for a long time for this team but i think his leadership has been really impressive this year and a team that has a bunch of young emerging guys who wanted to have a lot of stronger voice and those guys have done their part as well but uh you know blake wheeler has done a nice job of handling what could have been an uncomfortable situation and i mean the other part too blake was very open about

it before training camp when the announcement was made. Both sides, you know, were open to a possible, you know, breakup in the off season that didn't transpire. And, you know, that didn't slip into his play either. I mean, he's a guy who's been very motivated and has done a really nice job on a number of levels. And it's allowed him, I feel like there's been a weight lifted from his shoulders a little bit.

It just allowed him to go out and play hockey rather than worry about some of the other things. And, you know, as a 35-year-old now, you know, do I have to, you know, worry about things other than playing? I think he's just going out and playing. And he's always been more of a lead-by-example kind of guy also. And, you know, kudos to him for being able to handle that, you know, in a professional manner and to be able to play at the level he has. Ken, as far as the decision on the captaincy and overall, how a guy like Rick Bonas can allocate and empower people around him,

it seems to be such a vast difference difference of maybe uh well first of all coaching style between paul maurice and what uh the players have been used to and now rick bonus and uh no question that paul maurice had a all-in buy-in on on blake wheeler and and what he meant to the team and how he gave him uh a chance to take control of that dressing room and now bonus comes in and kind of spreads it out. And even the sense that I get, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, but when it comes to Rick Bonus, you mentioned the accountability, and he's certainly there to either kick you in the ass

or maybe pat you on the back. But a lot of that stuff that is around the team may fall into the lap of Brad L lauer scott arneal who was a head coach i mean they're probably doing more coaching x's and o's than than bonus and bonus can just focus on you know the the smaller details on on maybe what what ticks for some guys yeah i love that you use the word empower kipper i, I think that's really something that's been very important. Like you said, I mean, the star players always felt empowered in the Paul Maurice era. I think that sometimes the players, the complimentary players,

maybe didn't always feel as big a part of it. That sort of not only holds to leadership, but ice time and responsibility. So I think that Rick's ability to get accountability, and I don't think for a second that Paul Maurice didn't want these guys to play better defensively, but Rick's ability to provide a bit of a striking critique but doing it in a bit more of a caring manner, I think is something that, from talking to players,

is something that really has hit home with them. Rick can be very cut and dried. He says he hates gray areas. That's one of the things Rick said on the first day of training camp. So, but at the same time, he's not, you know, he's doing it from a position of the players know that they care, that he cares about them, that he only wants the best for them. And I think that's what's allowed them to want to be coached, to use a phrase Mark Shifley has used. I mean, he said he wanted to be pushed and he wanted to be coached and he's

playing that way I mean Mike mentioned only you know now he has now he has 11 assists after having a couple the other night but Mark's play has been at a really high level I mean this would be the first time in seven seasons he hasn't played at a point of a game rate but a lot of people would make the argument Mark Shifley is playing some of his best hockey i mean he's on pace for 46 you know 46 to 49 goals um you know and the assist is not not a matter of not setting up guys it's a matter of not converting and a lot of those top six guys like nicole eilers only played you know four games a season so i think that's impacted his numbers to a degree also especially on the power play but yeah, I mean, it's been impressive to see how the team has rallied around him.

You know, they had a little bit of a rough patch in December where they had 16 games in 30 days, and they were missing a lot of key components, but they got through that three-game losing skid and have won five in a row. And, you know, I'm with Mike. I mean, this is a team that it's not smoke and mirrors. It's not a team that, you know, analytically should crumble down the stretch. I mean, they should be getting better. I mean, they're getting healthier that it's not smoke and mirrors. It's not a team that, you know, analytically should crumble down the stretch.

I mean, they should be getting better. I mean, they're getting healthier. And I think they probably their best should be around the corner. And I mean, as Rick Bonas has said, structurally, they've improved, but they're not at a Stanley Cup level yet. But they feel like they can grow into that during the second half of the season. So, you know, looking at that division, they have taken advantage of some seasons from teams that I guess have, we would call underwhelming. Minnesota, what do they have, 113 points last year?

Doesn't seem like they're on that pace. Nashville's below expectations. Colorado, St. Louis. Like, would the Jets look at this team, at this division now, and say, we should be serious buyers here. This may be an opportunity to make some hay. Yeah, Borny, I i mean it's super interesting i mean so their window is interesting you know shifley wheeler hellebuck and dubois depending

on how that shakes down in the summertime is only on the one-year deal but all four of those guys potential ufas in the same summer of 2024 so that would that would you know ramp up the urgency for a team like the jets obviously yes the, yes, the turnaround is welcome, but for them, depending on how they manage their assets, their widest part of the window might be now. And especially with what you've mentioned, it seems a little bit more open. It's a little bit like the Jays in the AL East, right?

I mean, it seems like if the Red Sox are down, the Jays would be going for it. Same for the Jets. I mean, if some of these other teams are, you know, I think another thing you guys mentioned with Mike, I boston is the only elite team in the nhl right now i think there's a lot of very good to you know to to excellent teams but i think there's really only one elite team so if that's the case that should lead teams like dallas and winnipeg to kind of push all your chips to the middle i mean what that looks like i don't know but

you know if i'm kevin shimoldea I think you're swinging for a bull Horvat type or more of an Arturi Leckman, a middle six guy. I think Barbashev would be a perfect fit, a guy who can give you some offense but give you some edge. So I think that's probably where they'd be shopping. But, I mean, the Jets have a lot of top six forwards, but if you're getting greedy, they probably would like another one. They could use some physicality on the bottom six and maybe even another defenseman but i mean that's a that's a

pretty hefty shopping list to be uh to be trying to outbid teams that's the thing that's interesting to me there's so many teams that are in it not as many sellers maybe as we suspected in the early going so we're all in agreement that it has to be this year. I mean, the names that you mentioned going into 2024, a market like Winnipeg, there's not a chance that you leave these assets to chance that they walk out the door for free. And we haven't even had a conversation on Pierre-Luc Dubois, who has told the whole world that he doesn't want to be a Winnipeg Jet long term. Yeah, I mean, that's interesting too, Nick, right? I mean,

47 points now for Dubois, 19 goals. I mean, he's had an unbelievable start. So that's why I use Horvat as an example. I mean, so for me, he's almost Dubois insurance because if they can't get Dubois in the summer to commit, maybe then you have to trade him like they did with Trouba. Then you give that money that you would have

allocated to Dubois to bull Horvat if you can convince him to stick around for, you know, eight plus or whatever it takes. But, I mean, probably they're looking at trying to sign Hellebuck. I would say he's probably the other. If they can't get Dubois signed, then Hellebuck has to be the priority. But, yeah, I mean, it's just super interesting in terms of how quickly, you know, things can change in terms of windows.

I mean, the Jets thought their best window was 2018-19 after getting to the conference final. And we know how that worked out with some unexpected terms of windows. I mean, the Jets thought their best window was 2018-19 after getting to the conference final, and we know how that worked out with some unexpected turn of events. So it's a fascinating time for them, and I know your question you guys are coming up with. I mean, is Kyle Conner a superstar? He's got the same number of goals as Austin Matthews, and he has the same number of points as Mitch Marner, right?

So 20 and 49, he's a guy who had a tough start, only two goals in the first 13 games but he's been red hot of late so you know coming off a 90 you know 90 plus point season and trending for you know potentially 85 to 90 again so I'm very curious to see how the Jets handle this I mean they obviously we thought they'd make more changes in this past offseason but they stuck with their core and their core has rewarded them but I think they've also shown Kevin Schimelday off that they need another couple of pieces i would expect them to kind of follow the colorado avalanche or the tampa bay lightning model where they're adding a couple of

important forward pieces and maybe you know a depth piece on the back end uh if they can get one but man it's going to be the second half of the season should be fascinating to see how it unfolds you know the the thing that caught my ear sort of listening to Mike and yourself talk about the Jets is the improved defensive part of it. Looking at that decor, Morrissey DeMello, Dylan Pionk, Hainola Schmidt, like that's a pretty good decor. It's a good group. What would they be looking to add to that?

Well, maybe two, I guess. Brandon Dillon, with Sam Bird being out for Hainola tonight, I mean, they don't have a ton of bite. They have guys that play hard, but they're not overly physical guess. Brandon Dillon, with Samberg being out for Hanala tonight, I mean, they don't have a ton of bite. They have guys that play hard, but they're not overly physical outside of Brandon Dillon. So I wonder if they want to, maybe if your seventh defenseman has a little bit more bite. And Samberg's done a really good job in terms of shot blocking

and the penalty kill and all of that. So I guess I think that would be maybe on the greedy side if they're looking to add a defenseman, because I guess teams would always say they never have enough of them. But their ability to defend has been much more solid with kind of an unheralded group. Outside of Josh Morris, he's kind of Norris-level season. I mean, he's a guy whose previous high was 37 points.

He's already got 46 and counting at the midway point as they hit it tonight. I mean, he's really elevated, and that's the thing. Rick, Nick, we talked about empowering earlier. He went into his conversation with Josh Morrissey and basically said, hey, I want you in the top 10 Morris conversation by the end of the year. You have the green light to join, and he's done it in a manner that is, you know, different than what we've seen in the past

where, you know, the green light doesn't mean you're taking unnecessary risk. It's calculated risk, and they've also had the forwards covering off. But, I mean, Josh, Josh Morrissey has really been unlocked by Rick bonus. And, you know, his play has been another one of the reasons why the jets are,

you know, first in points percentage. And, you know, they'll send Rick bonus to the all-star game for the first time that they can, you know, they can win tight against the Detroit Red Wings.

So it's been interesting to monitor on that front as well. Ken, just one more for me. The market, the hockey market in Winnipeg. I know after so many years of consistent sellouts, it's become a bit of an issue here coming out of the pandemic. And just the overall health of the Winnipeg Jets and the support, or is there a slight concern about afford you know affordability in winnipeg

yeah i think i mean it's definitely a concern i would say that you know they have rallied a little bit during the christmas break here that i think they had three solos out of four games so i think that was probably something that they would uh they would have considered a you know a nice turn of events for sure uh you know the team is obviously having more success than they did last year, so I think that's maybe a sign of maybe things to come. The interest level still is pretty high, but for sure, it's something where the province was hit pretty hard by COVID. So there were a lot of people that were impacted financially,

and they've seen that at the gate for sure. But that's another thing, too. I'll be watching that closely during the second half. But this is an Oregon community that really rallied around bringing the Jets 2.0 version back in 2011, and I would think they would be doing that again. But what does a playoff run mean in that front, too? That would be something where it's a lot easier to support a winning franchise,

I guess. So, yeah, like I said, I don't have the answers, but I do know that it was a couple of lean years on those fronts. But it looks like over the break there was a little bit of reason for momentum or optimism for the organization, I guess, in terms of the attendance. But, yeah, I mean, it'll be something to definitely monitor during the second half and during a playoff push provided the Jets can punch their ticket.

As we will be watching as well. Hey, Weaves, thanks for doing this, man. My pleasure. Thanks for having me, guys. Enjoy the rest of the show. Thanks, Ken. Appreciate it. Sportsnet contributor based in Winnipeg. I enjoyed that. Yeah, I did too.

Yeah, just I'm tired of your takes with the leafs i know someone tell me about the jets i don't know enough about the jets it was great uh they have to go for it this year and then they're gonna have to trade uh pierre luke dubois in the offseason you don't think it's one of those things like jake debrusk where he's like i want out and then it turns out the team's good and they get a new coach and he goes, I don't, I'm not so sure anymore. Nope. Oh, no, no. Do you want to think about that? It's not even a no.

It's a nope. You just think that's a guy who just wants to be somewhere else on the earth. Mostly. How's he going to look in Montreal? Oh, really? Oh, come on. Read the tea leaves. He's an rfa though after this year correct but a free agent unrestricted after that yeah so he's he'd have the one more year so they signed him

to a one-year deal he's uh he's austin matthews so i guess if you're winnipeg you say what i just ignored that i ignored that a like i was just gonna carry on me i'm the i'm the fish who bit the hook did you hear that sound he made when i said like austin matthews yeah it was his diaphragm it's like yeah you lost your breakfast there's there's some the other end there's some guy that tweets me every day that's like oh you're what are you doing behind banging on a drum hitting your pen like he's pissed off about the sounds i'm making so hopefully he's not too pissed about that sound i just made this is not a conversation on austin matthews oh i was just referring that he has a similar situation except he showed his cards what are his cards he wants to leave who pierre luke oh okay good yes he wants to leave you know he did show his cards he flipped him over on the table and said i got pocket

rockets boys which again it's remarkable that they can just go about their business when he's having a career year pierre luke dubois and don't think they're doing kawaii and dying in winnipeg to keep him if he's that disgruntled think about what life would be like if austin did the same thing pierre luke dubois did in winnipeg oh it's so true think about the world there would you even show up to work every day? Yeah. I like this job. I like you guys.

I like seeing you every day. You would turn every day on Matthews. I'm thrilled. We're so sorry. Come back, Matthews. We'll sign him. Then he'd be like, forget him. Who cares anyway?

Would there ever be a world you could see where the Leafs could... Just play it out a year? Yeah. Or just have success like Winnipeg was having if if austin did the same thing pierre luke dubois did yes really yeah no i think this this town would be upside down our show would suck because it's all we would talk about it'd be a bad it's kind of all we talk about now anyway what athlete has ever uh showed his cards like that i don't know i don't i i mean yeah i mean you might know in in football or baseball or whatever but for then he's another

guy we can go star superstar i mean he's a good player he's at times connor bedard playing with pierre luke dubois dubois is a center though, isn't he? He's a center. He can be a 2C. What is he, 6'5"? So if you're Winnipeg, you want to sign Dubois to a 8-year contract so that you can trade him to Montreal. No, you don't even get to do that.

You can just trade him. He doesn't need to sign an 8-year deal. So this offseason, Dubois. They can do a sign and trade for him to get the extra eight year. Right. But you certainly don't want to go into next season knowing that if you don't trade him, he's leaving anyways for nothing.

So you'd rather trade him preseason than sign him for one year and try to. Yeah. And I think if Winnipeg sucked this year, we'd be having Bo Horvath conversations with Pierre-Luc Dubois. Right. It's just, it's hilarious listening to him. We've not really liked that interview too. It's nice to hear a different team.

But every market that's good has the same conversations. Oh, yeah. Right. here yeah a different team but every market that's good has the same conversations oh yeah right he's like ah you know horvat maybe and a defensive uh a gritty defenseman it's like how about everyone wants the guy who's just under the radar he's like barbershop would be perfect we did the same thing barbershop conversation i actually was thinking about it i was like barbershop might have the most value on the market everyone thinks they're going after a tier two, the guys at the top of tier two. Oh, they get a first for Barbashev. Yes. Oh, yes.

Which is crazy to think about. You think they get a first, Kip? For Barbashev? Guy had 24 goals last year. Yes. Yeah. What did Montreal get for Colorado for Lekanen? A second and a fourth or second and a third?

And a player, right? Yeah. I like Lekanen. Like a Baron? I'd love that. Well, and Lekanen, he wasn't a rental either, though. No, didn't they re-sign him? He was a rental.

Oh, he was a rental, yeah. And then they re-signed him. Yeah, you're right. Good deal, too. You know who else is underrated right now in Winnipeg? And we mentioned him, just Brendan Dillon. That guy's voice became more powerful in that room when they started spreading out the leadership.

Interesting. I can relate to being in a dressing room where you're where it's like everyone would be better off if that guy over there would just maybe dial it back a bit like you know this isn't your team one guy blake wheeler was that guy in winnipeg that seems like it right where i'm sure everyone uh did their interviews with bonus and was like, everything's great here. It's great. What can you tell Blake to just relax? It must have,

that conversation must have been really strong for them to make that decision to strip him of his captaincy. Yeah. And of course they would frame it two wheeler as we want less pressure on you. We want you to not have to be a coach uh presence we want you just to play and you know to weep's point they he's almost a point per game guy he's been pretty good for him statistically can't say i've watched him super

close but seems like things are working out for the jets so sometimes uh addition by a little bit of subtraction in terms of effort on his part in the room. Okay, let's take a quick break here because we're going to bring back Brian Lawton. Lots. We got lots with lots. After the break, Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, back after these words.

We're going to welcome in Brian Lawton, the guy that's done it all, played, agent, general manager. I would say he's qualified to weigh in on the sport. Analyst. Let's bring in Brian Lawton. Lawton, where are you right now're you're just all over the world i am in wonderful minnesota looking at a very frozen lake as you can imagine very similar weather to toronto a little bit colder obviously nice uh i want to start with the back half of the season and and the approach uh let's start with the back half of the season and the approach.

Let's start with the Toronto Maple Leafs. And knowing that you've got 40-plus games to prepare for the Tampa Bay Lightning, how does that change the mindset from here on in, micro or macro managing here? Well, certainly from a macro standpoint, you always want to have an eye as to who you will potentially meet to start the playoffs. I always think that's the most dangerous round for anybody.

You're not quite into it yet and surprises can happen. But if I were Toronto, I'd be looking at ways that i think i can consistently beat the lightning uh it's not an easy task as we all know they they continue to kind of defy the odds losing good players but they continue to put together a good squad year in and year out lots i looking at the deadline here for the Leafs. One of the teams that comes up that has available players,

Arizona coyotes, the Leafs trade with them regularly. And I wanted to get your take on regular trade partners and, you know, what's the deal with the Leafs trading so much with one team in particular? Is it just a relationship between the GMs? Is it coincidence circumstance?

How does that come to play out? And is it a good thing? I think relationships play a big part in it. People you're comfortable with. You know, when you look at Arizona, I think you guys are bang on just by chance. I can't think of anybody. Maybe Anaheim's about the same. I just did this exercise the other day. You know, when you're managing a club, you always want to, particularly this year, I believe, because I'm not sure it's a great seller's market, but in terms of the buyer's perspective, I think you want to be prepared to pay top dollar for a player or top assets for a player, but you'd also like to try to sneak another player or two out of there.

When you say Arizona, everybody thinks Chikorin. Well, there are guys like Nick Buebstad that's having a pretty good year at a real affordable salary. There are guys like Travis Boyd that aren't that expensive that are pretty good players. Brown has already gone the Nick Ritchie route, so that's probably not a fit for them. But they're a team with a number of guys potentially that could be in play. And someone's going to have to pay such a boatload for chicken at the end of the day that I wouldn't be surprised to see somebody maybe try to grab another player or two on the way out the door.

Lots, all this talk about uh generational player connor uh badar being available and it's fairly obvious to all of us uh the teams that will tank and you know whether it's arizona or chicago montreal the talk has been followed them right from the beginning of the season and then there there's other teams, like we'll see the one against the Leafs tomorrow night, like the Nashville Predators, where you think that there's every reason why they should bottom out and start again, but they seem to have that kind of that concept

that we're going to cheat death here and we're not going to have to go through that and we'll get good again. I think the Rangers kind of went through that for a short period, about two or three years, and they seem to be okay. But can, can a team like Nashville actually delay the inevitable to the point where they, they can compete for a Stanley cup without bottoming out?

Well, I think you're really smart to focus on them. I mean, you know, you make a good point, Tipper. The teams that look like they're going to be in the running, Philadelphia's played a little better lately, but Anaheim, Arizona, Chicago, Columbus, Montreal, Philadelphia, San Jose, you know, those teams look like they'll be in the running for Conor Bedard. Don't forget, there really are four pretty good players in this draft, not at the level of Bedard, but it's a pretty good draft on the high end.

Then you get into that second-tier group of players, and I look at this almost every two weeks, and it changes all the time. I'm looking at an old ranking I did not too long ago. I had Buffalo, Detroit, and Nashville, as well as Ottawa, St. Louis, and Vancouver as another grouping of teams that could potentially fall into that mix. Nashville is a team, to me, that has started to play much better lately. They'd like to think they could go on a run as we're at the halfway point. But if that doesn't materialize, i wouldn't be surprised to see them consider um moving a player or two now i mean they just got

ryan mcdonough in would you move mac he'd be awfully highly sought after uh there's just a lot to unpack this year i think it's going to be a really unique year. I think some of these non-traditional teams that you see in that mix are going to change it up. And ultimately, I think there'll be so many teams this year that are so interested in what's going on with Conor Bedard. It probably won't be a great seller's market when you add it all up. Lots for the Toronto Maple Leaf leafs who are decidedly not tanking for conor bedard they have all their hopes pinned on ilya samsonov and matt murray if you were the gm how you know what would you be thinking at this point of the season both guys have played 16 games and are 9 16 save percentages are you comfortable going into the postseason with your job on the line with those

two guys as your goalies i don't think you could ever be fully comfortable in that position under the scenario that you're describing however i do think it's a tall ask to try to change that up at this stage um you know i mean who's really out there that would be a decided upgrade? Right. You know, John Gibson, I guess, you know, you guys could embarrass me and say, well, John Gibson, maybe. But boy, that'd be tough to fit under their under their cap. I'm not saying they couldn't do it.

As a matter of fact, I'm more convinced you can do more than we've been led to believe over the last 10 or 15 years with regard to the salary cap, if you really are willing to acquire players that are going to extend your cap and do things that maybe weren't willing to what the return would have to be to probably a guy like Gibson out of Anaheim a guy who quite frankly hasn't really even played that great doesn't have better numbers than either of Toronto's current goaltenders but you have to think maybe in a different circumstance with a little stronger team in front of him his numbers would be significantly different but I don't think that's a likely outcome for Toronto right now, and I don't think it fits all that well with management. He can only do so much, though. We're talking a former player, agent, general manager, Brian Lott.

It's just kind of Deadsville out there when it comes to teams moving anybody is this is this absolutely the flat cap and will this continue until what a couple of weeks uh as far as they can alleviate cap space for their respective clubs here when you talk to guys i, prices are still sky high. You know, you go out and you kind of canvas what's going on with a guy like Chikrin that's been highly sought after for quite a while, dragged on much longer than the Ryan O'Reilly odyssey. And, you know, you have to wonder how that one's going to end. I just don't see, you know, teams willing to pay maybe a legitimate player,

two first-round picks, a prospect, that type of return for anybody. I think it's going to be a buyer's market. And why do I say that? Well, I know Chikrin's out there. I know he's a guy that could potentially be traded. But, you know, Eric Carlson, is he off the market? We know he's super expensive. Would San Jose pay half for a great return?

Would that make sense for them? Would Florida look at maybe moving Montour? Is Cam Fowler potentially in play? I know he's got a lot of restrictions on his deal. We heard about Provorov's name pop up. McDonough, Sherratt, Klingberg, Alvarek, McPherson, Gavrikov, Letty. Could get flooded.

There's a lot of guys. Exactly, and that's my point. This Conor Bernard, you know, let's try to be there at the end of the day, has kind of changed the mix this year, and I think it's going to affect the trade market. And I think right now the teams that want to be sellers, because there's a lot of them that have already come to the conclusion might be better to sell earlier rather than later this year to improve our odds, are having a very hard time

getting anywhere near the returns that they would like to get. Well, that's encouraging if you're buying, I suppose. You know, one of the teams... be in theory look at last year look at last year we had just a little bit of this dynamic and a guy by the name of hampus lindholm goes off for a price that a lot of teams have said well i'll do that for a quality player right because it's just worked out so great for boston and i think that's what people are on the hunt for. And I think it's going to be even tougher sledding. Clearly in that situation,

the club had made the decision that they're going to move on from the player. He was going to be unrestricted, but under, you know, virtually no circumstance where they not going to move them. And that's what happened. And that's what has to concern a lot of teams right now.

But there wasn't much push on on Lindholm maybe because the majority of the team slept on him or don't really watch games late at night but there wasn't that much competition for the Boston Bruins for Lindholm and I know teams today that would gladly want to revisit that based on the success that he's had in Boston. Yeah, no doubt about that, Tipper. And I was with you last year when that was going on. I was like, my goodness, what is going on here? You have a chance to not just add a top four D,

but in Boston's case, he really is a number two D. He's a guy that didn't have a ton of offense. He's already virtually at his career high in half the season. You know, teams sit there and do those calculations. Hey, this guy's not performing well on this club, but their club's not doing very well on our club with a better room, with a better supporting cast.

This guy could really light it up. Well, it's been a perfect storm in Boston for Lynn home getting David crazy back. Of course, didn't hurt either of us. Right. Yeah, that was a big difference for them. The Toronto Maple Leafs, you know, when they're assessing how to spend their assets and what they want to do to the team,

one of the questions I think they have, and I think Kip would agree, is just, you know, do they want to get more physical? Are they tough enough? Are they whatever i wonder if you think that nhl playing style the way the game is played has changed enough that you can have success without that element because in the regular season it seems like you can i just don't know once you get in the postseason if you can yeah that's true i mean tampa and colorado have been able to defy that but they have such extreme talent that maybe they get a pass on it. I watch a team like Edmonton, you know, play a team like Minnesota, even St. Louis to some degree, Washington, teams that are big, heavy teams. And they seem to have an upper hand, certainly in the five-on-five play when you see those teams match up. That's interesting to me.

In the East for Toronto, could they get by without it? I think the numbers give them at least a 50-50 chance of that. But in a perfect world, you'd much rather have the same team. That's much bigger, heavier. It's not to be tougher. It's not tougher in today's world. It's just big players that could move. I think that's really valuable. And maybe at the end of the day, Toronto does go shopping for some bigger players.

We'll see how that plays out. It wouldn't be the be-all, end-all for me, but it's certainly something you keep an eye on. Last week, we just had a really good conversation on the Winnipeg Jets. And, you know, we talked about a lot of things, including, you know, short and term and long term for Kevin Chevelle day off. But he's really in a bit of a pickle here because he's got a team that has shown that they can compete. But you don't know who's going to stick around in the next two years. Shifley, Hellebuck need new contracts.

How far and how deep do you want to go on there? And then you've got this unique situation in Pierre-Luc Dubois where, you know, we're bordering on star, superstar. I don't know what he's worth on the open market, but he doesn't want to stay. I thought this would be one of those things that could sink an organization, you know, a huge distraction. That's not the case.

A couple of questions here on this is, number one is, you know, would you want to be in Kevin Chevelle Day off spot right now? And two is, will we see more players like Pierre-Luc Dubois show their cards and not worry about the ramifications of a community turning on you? I don't think we will, Kipper, for the obvious reasons. I just don't think there's any reason to go that route. Some players don't care, but that's more rare than not.

Hockey players in general are pretty courteous, pretty thoughtful about those types of things. His situation is unique. I mean, keep in mind he is going to be a free agent, but he's not an unrestricted free agent at the end of this year. Not at 24 years old. But two years, he will be.

No, yeah. Two years he will be, assuming you work on a one-year deal or he will be. No, yeah, two years he will be, assuming, you know, you work on a one-year deal or he goes to ARB, whatever, and you can't get longer than that. So it could be a conundrum, but it's not one that I'd be overly worried about right now if I were Kevin Sheveldayoff. But another year is an eternity in this business to move a guy.

That doesn't mean you wouldn't be looking. As a matter of fact, I would start the process. Now I do it quietly. I'd be looking for a grand slam offer. I probably wouldn't expect to get it, but you always want to see if someone will knock your socks off. You never know. Lots, you know, they spend a lot of my time looking at the leafs in their division

the florida panthers have been uh object of much many question marks this season uh about their success matthew kachuk's got 49 points in 38 games he ain't the problem he's been everything they thought he might be so they get what they want and they're so much worse you know how if you're bill zito how are you feeling about the way this season is shooken out shaked out i don't know the word you know the word the word is ugly yes you're right no it clearly is and you, it happens to everybody in this business. Bill Zito came in and absolutely everything he did worked out marvelously. And they went on an incredible run, and they even put up a bit more of a fight

than maybe even some people thought they might last year in the playoffs. Didn't get to where they wanted to get to. They thought they'd go all in this year with a huge move from Matthew Kuchaku. You guys are right. I don't know if he has any better to give. He is 25 years old, so that certainly makes sense. But, you know, he's played really, really well. I think what we found out is that it was razor thin in terms of the blue line that they were able to roll out last year and have such great success with.

They've changed the coach. Everything has kind of gone south for them this year, very shockingly. And Kipper, as you wrote about not that long ago in the Toronto Star, it's even worse than the standings are on paper behind the scenes. So it's a tough spot for them to be in right now. Obviously, at the halfway point, they're hoping they can turn it around. I watch a lot of their games. I haven't seen anything to indicate they're ready to break out and do that.

You know, if they just had a chance at Conor Bedard, but they don't even have that. And they don't have first rounders for the next few years. Lots. It's kind of mind-boggling to think that they went from

President's Trophy to this scenario in less than 12 months. No, it is, Skipper, and I read your story, and that's what I was alluding to, obviously. But, you know, that's just something that obviously Bill Zito and his management team never thought was a possibility, and neither would you or I have.

Yeah, that's fair. At the same time, it is something that you can clean up with one more sentence. It just happens sometimes sometimes that's all well plenty left to watch as we go into the back half of the season hey lots really appreciate your time man thanks for doing this anytime guys thanks lots appreciate it right a lot. Appreciate it. Brian Lawton. Matthew Kachuk is ninth in the NHL in points this year. Tied for eighth, actually. 1.29 points per game, 20 goals. I think it was Mike Kelly that emphasized the goaltending.

Spencer Knight and Ilya, no, whatever, Sergey Bobrovsky. Bobrovsky. But Spencer Knight to turn around, sign a new contract at 4.5 million based on really nothing except if i ask for it will you give it to me this is the same thing that happens with not quite tage thompson but betting on guys before they have the break breakout you go we'll get him at four or five. He's going to be worth 10. We're going to look like geniuses.

And he's worth two. You are if you would have gotten rid of your $10 million anchor. How's that possible? Okay. As promised, we're going to start this little star or superstar segment in our show i love it when we just make defining right what a superstar is for it exactly so before we get into this and we'll go right here home here in toronto with the torontos, your definition between a star and superstar? Well, I think you have to look at the number of people you're including.

Like how big, is 10 players in the league superstars? Are there 15 superstars? To me, once you get to every team, you're at 32 teams. Those are now all stars. You have selected a star from all the teams. Those are all stars. You are out of the superstar realm. To me, the cap, the absolute cap is under 20, probably 15.

How am I doing for defining what a superstar is? Yeah. what a superstar is yeah i think first of all is there a big gap between a star and a superstar for you and and what is that gap yes the gap for me is the guys who really drive the bus there are stars on bad teams connor mcdavid does not allow the oilers to be as bad as they have been for years because he is a super uber duper star. Okay. So if I can kind of grasp what you're saying, that there, if we're to break it up between a star and superstar as simple as there,

there's, there's a local feel for every community that they have their own stars. Yes. Right. And it might be three or four on each team where they can look at their team and say well he's one of our stars would people say that riley's a star defenseman probably so when i think of a superstar i think of national okay i think of across the league i think of marketability that's exactly on a superstar

marketability was in your definition as well get ability so jason robertson and and third in the league in scoring or fourth or whatever and market plays into it big time like kipper said like so if you're like you mentioned mika sabina jet to me him playing for the rangers makes him closer to a superstar than i would say if he played for the kings a superstar for me is knowing that a team's coming into your community and that guy is must see selling tickets selling tickets jason robertson no disrespect not selling tickets so the other fact yeah statistically the other factor is you know uh there's a there's a proven kind of commodity here that you've done it before

or that you've hit levels that you know there's not a waiting for moment with a star a superstar has that arrived and can he do it again or just the confidence

that he will because he's opposed to a star who's you're waiting for to do that so all of these factors come into play and therefore i think there's like under 10 let's go under 10 superstars you'd be surprised so i have i've had this conversation with people when they say, he's one of the 10 best players in the league. And then you start to write them down, and you run out of names really fast. Okay, so don't kill me, Oilers Twitter and Oilers people. But would you consider Leon Dreisaitl a superstar? Superstar.

Absolute superstar. Superstar. Okay. Yeah. And he's not the flashiest there isn't there isn't a a dynamic element to his game that is as clear as mcdavid's but uh you get a billion points a ton of years in a row his ability to pass the puck shoot the puck, all of that has put him in the last two years. Here's one for you.

Eric Carlson. Superstar. So that is almost a legacy superstar. You know what I mean? He's been at the top of the game, multiple Norris trophies, does stuff no one can do. You want to watch him. The level that he hits when he's healthy and feeling good, superstar. But having Carlson in the conversation now, the bubble's pretty big.

Okay. So you said 12 or 20. What did you say? I said under 20. So 15, 16, 17 guys. Jack Hughes. I'm in that same pod. Jack Hughes is a great question.

And Jack Hughes is like Tage Thompson to me. Not superstars. Yeah, where you're like, they're probably going to be. They are performing like superstars right this moment. But I'm not putting those guys

in the same conversation with Conor McDavid and Austin Matthews. Sidney Crosby. He's rising stars, new category. Young stars. But not superstars. We should put them on a team and have them play the rest of the world in a tournament.

He's played 40 games. He's on a career year pace. Jack Hughes. Hughes, okay. That he looks like he's a projected superstar. Yeah. But he is not a superstar in the National Hockey League just yet. So let's just do this quick

matthew kachuk hold on let's do this quick that's a great one thank you crosby ovi uh mcdavid dry sidle give me the note matthews matthews marner marner um okay d like headman car mccarr mckinnon mckinnon we're forgetting people one two three four five six seven eight nine like you're you're almost at 10 before we even start the damn coast kucherov kucherov's a superstar but you don't think Stamkos is? I would put him in the last... His last three years, he, to me, is a... But...

Here's... Then what about Bergeron and Marchand? I... To me, they're... I don't know. I just don't think of them as superstars. I just don't think of them as superstars. There's a flash dynamic to a superstar.

I don't disagree. I love Patrice Bergeron. I know. You take him over some of these guys. There's not too many guys I would rather have in a game seven than him. Marchand. Yes. But without the flash.

Yeah. Stamkos, Marchand, and Patrice Bergeron are superstars in our league. Yeah. Yeah, they are. They're huge names. We put Carlson on the list already. Kirill Kaprizov.

That's a great one about... Yeah, not yet. I think it's market-driven. Not yet. Local star. He's so good. He's having a sick year. Yeah. He's so good. He's having a sick year. Yeah, he's so good.

Yeah, he can, under the right circumstances, turn himself into a Kucherov, maybe. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's a fair. Let me go back to Matthew Kachuk. Yeah, star. Superstar? Star.

Star. Jack Eichel. Star. I'dichel star i go to one of the stars i go superstar not still a lot to prove to me he's a lot of word of mouth and you know expectation and you know i has he done it has he done it so So Nylander's not going in then. He's not superstar status. Yeah, no, no, no. He needs a good career year. But in terms of flash and market, he has those with him. He needs, oh, yeah, the potential.

Yeah. We got 50 guys with the potential to be a superstar. Evgeny Malkin. Oh, yeah. Superstar. Superstar. 101st best player of all time. My favorite joke, couldn't beat out Newsy Lalonde.

Newsy Lalonde from the 1912 Seattle Frankfurters. Yeah, I think Roman Yossi on a bigger market would be a superstar. Yeah. I would love for some local markets going to catch wind of this conversation and hate us. I think we've named them all. No, did you guys name your one of your top five players of all time uh braden point yeah i thought about point but he's not a superstar for me oh yeah goalies for goalies vasilevsky what about mark stone sorry mark stone

best left winger in the game no one time at least i'm not a superstar for me vasilevsky the only guy shisterkin not a superstar yet those two guys are superstars shisterkin you're gonna put in for sure he won the vesna last year he plays him for the rangers he's a superstar this year i mean they're pretty good he is definitely their superstar in new york yeah and would be the heir apparent to vasilevsky so i I don't know. I mean, you can technically think that he's one of the superstars in the league in that position. All day long, you can

sell me on that. Elias Pettersson, David Pasternak. Oh, yeah. Past is in? Yeah, I got him as a superstar. So we got Past as a superstar, but not his teammates. It's just a different thing. Like, they're just Kipper nailed it with the flash. You're instantly

a star. There's just a dynamic element to their game that automatically pushes you up into the wow factor. They're just great at the little things that help you win but there's not that flash with certain players. Barzal,

Patrick Laine. Pat Kane, superstar. Kane, but Tave, he's a superstar. Legacy superstar. He's still in the league. Yeah, but we're at the tail end, right? But he was a superstar. Yeah, it's a stretch having him in there for me. No, not now.

No, he's out. No, not now. He's on the outside looking into the superstar list. Barkov? No. Barkov's a great question. Barkov, like... He's falling off a cliff. Falling off. Yeah. Yeah.

He was last year, yes. He was the most underrated player in the league. Landis Dogg, Rantanen. Good players. Not superstars. O'Reilly. I'm almost done my quick scan of the league here. I got one for you. What's that?

Trevor Zegers. See? Young. He's in Jack. He's just not quite good enough yet. Jack Hughes. He's just not quite good enough yet. Yeah, they're going to be the next wave, but more wins, likes so we have a clean 15 superstars in the league which i love as a number

you got malkin kucherov crosby ovechkin mcdavid dry sidle matthews marner headman mccarr mckinnon vasilevsky shisterkin pastor mac i think he said him uh and kane patrick kane all right hit us up in the comments you got any in vancouver same guy falls into that great example of your local market like peterson is our guy right where they he's the star in the local market but just uh isn't right there nationally rasmus stalin is probably getting there. Paige Thompson getting there. Next wave. Adam Fox. Oh, good one. He just hasn't been in enough car commercials. You know what I mean? I haven't seen him anywhere.

He's good enough to be there. One of Norris. He's in New York. He's legit. Should be the next 10-year version of Eric Carl carlson john tavarez not no no no no is there any good row is it crazy to think that he has he ever been a superstar john tavarez yes 100 yes yeah i think i think uh jb's right that there was that window where he was the franchise of the new york island there were guys jamie he was the franchise of the New York Islanders.

There were guys, Jamie Benn was it, Claude Giroux was it. Like those guys were the top of the league at times. Tyler Sagan was on the cusp of being a superstar. Yeah. Panarin? It's a good one, but no. He's a very poor man. He's very rich, actually. He's the opposite very poor man he's very rich actually

he's the opposite of poor man poor man Pasternak that's great you guys do Kyle Connor Kyle Connor no star player on his team you ask some fan base in the league about Kyle Connor they'd say who's he playing for

I'd take him Kyle Connor and G genzel are the exact same to me right yeah you'd love them riding shotgun with your number one centerman yeah and know that they could score 35 40 goals with their eyes closed but not considered like flash superstars which brings me to a conversation that we kind of had earlier about anze kopitar oh yeah had his 1100th point oh last night oh drew dowdy's a star he's a superstar no no okay ah drew dowdy's a superstar he hit norris's stanley cups runs his mouth plays in la high levels he hit high levels for me.

Is that a legacy? You're writing down. You put that in the book. That's official. It's official. Dowdy's in. Okay. He's in.

That's an ink. If Eric Carlson's in, Drew Dowdy's in. 17. Yeah. It depends on where we sit on tapes. We never really. No, I'm not. I'm putting the foot down.

That is, I mean, sacrilege. So is Brent Burns still a superstar? No Brent Burns is high entertainment value Oh yeah, did we say anyone on Carolina? I mean Ajo Best team in the league? Svechnikov?

Svechnikov is not going to do it Not yet What about Kopitar? So Kopitar I love is a discussion Is he a hall of famer? 1100 points in 1,250 games. Ballpark. Those are round numbers.

Yes. He is. He's in like for sure for me. Yes. I mean, he was a monumental piece. Won Selkie trophies. Stanley Cups. Almost a point per game guy.

I mean, you want your player you know it's funny as sam said uh austin matthews when he came into the league kopitar was like a comparable for a lot of people like he could be kopitar turns out he's maybe kopitar plus but wouldn't you want him to have kopitar's career wouldn't you love him to end with kopitar's career i would run to the scotia bank arena and get down on a knee and pray to the hockey gods that he ends up with that career oh my god when it's all said and done i just the reason i brought it up is because if this guy had this career like we're talking about the superstar conversation this guy had this career in on the east coast like any of the big traditional hockey markets you talk about you know montreal

toronto philly new york any of these places where they really care about it yeah the way this guy we talked about we talked about is like an all-time legend i know and he's just without a doubt if he was on the in the east yeah it would be a different conversation i feel like he deserves as like one of the biggest most underrated careers. If you're having a conversation about who would it be, I think he's in that conversation. Yeah. He has been everything they've asked of him and more.

Forgot one here. We definitely forgot a couple. Marc-Andre Fleury. No. Big numbers, man. Like he's a Hall of Fame guy too. But if you're going by the superstar, he's not a superstar in this league. He's a superstar. Yeah, he's a hall of fame guy but if you're going by the superstar mark a bill not a superstar in this league he's a superstar yeah he's a superstar you know yeah this is the funny thing though is it just now you're right ability no he is not then jonathan

taves is a star well a superstar yeah i mean mark andre Fleury would be under the same umbrella as Jonathan Taves, where today it's, yeah, they're on the 18th hole here. We know that. But pick it up. That's a gimme. That's a gimme. Yeah, it's a gimme. Go to the clubhouse and let's start drinking about your first 17 holes.

No one's going to talk about 18. Let's just focus on your great friend side. I think that's about it on the goaltending side. That's the one. Uh-oh. Is Jonathan Quick a Hall of Famer? Yeah. Oh, definitely.

Okay. Absolutely. Superstar for LA? No. So you can lose superstar status while you're a player. I think he's had too long of a down swing. Yeah, like if you're Gretzky and you get nine goals near last year, you're still a superstar.

You can't dim a star that bright. Yeah, but I guess did Quick win the consmite for them? There was a couple years there when he was out of this world. You know what we've never discussed on this show, which we probably should have. They're putting up a statue of Dustin Brown. Really? Los Angeles.

Maybe not even there. Maybe it's already up. A statue of Dustin Brown, the captain of the two Stanley cup teams. I believe he wore the sea when they won the cups. He's a warrior. That guy, but a statue of Dustin Brown?

He played almost 13 years. Wendell Clark's got a statue. Don't compare those two. Why? They played hard. They were loved locally. Listen, I love Wendell. I'm just telling you that's where it's coming from.

Okay. Was Wendell Clark a superstar? You'd know better than me. I love him, but, I mean, there's people around the league that would go, he was a really good player, a hard player, a tough player, love him in the trenches, but a league superstar? That's all in the eye of the beholder, but I can kind of see uh the success of of their

stanley cups you know around a guy like dustin brown and i know i know he's not a star yeah my thoughts are when you say that are yeah but the leafs have never had a ton of like superstars league wide but then that's la too like did dustin brown make many all-star games did he make a lot of uh national teams i think he was part of uh usa no for sure for checking yeah yeah he would have been there in 2010 and 2014 more uh workmanlike mentality well it's also like the leafs have legends row that's where wendell is, right? If they built... LA has like Magic Johnson out front. If they built one for Brown... He's going to be beat by the Zamboni doors.

They call Magic in the basketball and Dustin Brown drinking a water bottle with the water squirting the wrong way. The one for Kopitar better be made out of solid gold if they've got one for Brown. But I like Brown. Brown had an underrated career, played almost 13 of the games.

I have no problem with Dustin Brown as a player. He's down on Dustin Brown. Almost 100 playoff games. He's a statue. Brown had an underrated career, played almost 13 of the games. I have no problem with Dustin Brown. Almost 100 playoff games. Almost 100 playoff games. Take away his statue right now. I'm blaming you. Statues are a higher honor than the Hall of Fame. Hmm. I don't know about that. I don't know about that either.

How many guys are in the Hall of Fame? A bajillion. Anybody can order a statue. Anybody can order a statue. Anybody can order a statue. Put up a Kiprio statue. Not everybody can get in the Hall of Fame. On the TV side. That's where the Kipper statue is going. You can make a statue of me out front.

Right? Anybody can do that. What do you want it out of? Bronze, iron, nickel? Just tin's good. Tin's good. You got aluminum foil? Wow.

This segment should have been on a Friday. All right. Thanks to Ken Weep for our Winnipeg discussion. Brian Lawton. And Mike Kelly. Mike Kelly, of course. Old day. Okay.

One more, and then we're back in action tomorrow night, Nashville, Toronto. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for watching. Hit the like button. Give us a rating and review. Always love having you guys on board. Have a great night, everybody. We'll see you next time.