Real Kyper & Bourne - Buds' Blueline Blueprint

Episode Date: March 27, 2023

Justin Bourne, Brent Gunning and Sam McKee (back from Arizona) begin with the pair of Leafs' games over the weekend, Auston Matthews looking like himself, the play from Matt Murray and Joseph Woll, if Woll can be a factor this season and the defensive pairings looking more comfortable. They are joined by Sportsnet's Luke Fox (20:36), who discusses the Leafs' need for a 'shut-down pair' and if it's worth separating Morgan Rielly and TJ Brodie to achieve it, William Nylander's lull in production and why it's tough to find motivation at this point in the season. Then, Mike Kelly of NHL Network breaks down Tampa Bay's recent struggles and if that matters come playoff time, Tanner Jeanot's impact with the Lightning and shares his playoff picks (40:30). Finally, Kristen Shilton of ESPN weighs in on the Leafs' biggest weaknesses, which team she's likes to win the West and goes around the state of the Canadian teams (1:06:26).The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. All right, welcome everyone to Real Kipper and Born featuring Brent Gunning. Last day today, Brent. How's it been for you? It's been wonderful. Always love coming in with you guys, but the daytime listeners not getting rid of me. Morning show, next four days. Oh, really?

There you go. But yes, I always like being with you guys. Significant hour shift for you. Yes. Well, we look forward to hearing you there. You know me. I have a child. Not significant hour shift.

Yeah, that's true. We got David Siss on tech, and we got Connor Lamont filling in for Brandeo today. Thanks, man. Appreciate it. And back from the desert in Arizona. Triumphant return. Fresh, rejuvenated, refreshed after a vacation. Yeah.

Full of life and energy. And vim and vigor. Sam McKee, welcome back, pal. Hey, boys. How was your trip? Quite good. Quite good. I really, really enjoyed myself.

Arizona, hell of a state. Scottsdale, hell of a city. Lots of golf, lots of fun. A couple orange crushes along the way, but I had an absolute blast. The least enjoyable part of the trip was the 12 hours at Sky Harbor Airport yesterday, followed by a red eye leaving Arizona at 11 p.m. Pacific time, getting in here at 6.30 a.m. our time. Today? Today, yeah.

Was your flight delayed? Why were you at the airport so long? Because we had to get the rental car back. So it's like... Did you just drink beers in the airport? No, I laid on the ground. Just full of shame from the weekend? Buddy, my scaries

yesterday were hitting hard. I'm okay now. I'm alright now. I got home around 6.30. Had a nice long sleep and I'm back. You I'm all right now. I got home around 6.30. Had a nice long sleep, and I'm back. You never even told us how you played. I played quite well. You played five rounds of golf. I did.

At varying degrees of difficulty courses, I assume. And niceness, I've heard as well. I shot 80 the first day. By the way, 36 out of the gates, birdie on the first hole. He did tell me that. I came off the plane, and then the rest of the time, I was on the last day I shot an 82 with three birdies, and I tripled the 18th hole for an 82. Oh, so you had two shots at breaking 80.

Yeah, and I tripled it. I tripled it, yeah. But at that point, I didn't really know what my score was at that point. It was just a nice day. All good. All good. That's awesome. Well, welcome back.

We're happy to have you. Thanks, man. The Toronto Maple Leafs had a weekend they did they lost to the carolina hurricanes as mckee yeah almost almost but uh you know the some scaries when you look back at a loss but also a lot of good things came out of it they were a lot more positive about the loss on saturday come back and go to nashville and play 20 hours later essentially and really put up what i thought was one of their better defensive uh games of the year what was your takeaway they only get two or four points but pretty good weekend for the leafs yeah really good i mean we will have the conversation about everyone's reaction both of ours included to the carolina

game of you blow a lead late but you're still walking away with mostly positive things to say the nashville game was just a clinical example of let's just keep this thing quiet there was a moment in the third where keith was really giving it to bunting and you know who knows what he said there but my read on it was calm down this game is a sleepy game and we need it to be a sleepy game so just keep it that way it's about kind of finding the right momentum so yeah matthews continues to look great tavarez pots a couple which is important for him to to feel like he's contributing you know marner and matthews really turned it on lately you don't want tavarez to feel like he's not pulling his weight that's too strong of a term but you understand what i mean there uh so yeah i

really liked it and uh we're gonna have a conversation about joe wall at some point today because he looked really good which you like so yeah a lot of good from a one-on-one weekend insane stat of the weekend there were two games of the weekend not 10 and austin matthews had 28 shot attempts absurd 28 shot attempts 15 shots on goal on saturday night that 15 shots on goal is the fourth highest individual shot total in a game ever in the NHL. So pretty insane. The all-time, by the way, is Ray Bork, who had 19 shots in a game. You know what? We did our thing last week of guys you would pay to see play,

and I didn't include him because it's like I saw him, but I fake saw him. I saw Colorado him. You saw him lift the cup at an Avs jersey. And then they serenaded him in Boston for some reason, which will never not be weird. But yeah, that stat did make me rethink my answer for half a second. I want Bobby Orr, so I still think that's the better Bruin. But yeah.

Ray Bork actually was the all-time leading shot total guy in the NHL pre-Ovechkin. He's number two all-time. So that guy got a ton of shots. But yes, Austin Matthews 15 shots and then last night all over the National Predators I I am so we do a leaf show I am so encouraged yes you know not trying to be a biased homer here but like I was so excited to see Matthews play the way he did this weekend you know holding off guys driving his legs wide getting the

puck to the net firing it all you know every chance he got uh exciting i mean if he's going to be that leaf that changes things for him don't like we've there's been a lot of discourse i've been gone that the least kind of suck right everyone says the leafs suck now since the middle of the trade before you left that was the thing there's some there's bad numbers there's some discourse and you know the bottom half the lineup's not looking the way that the least wanted it But to me, the most encouraged thing by far is that Auston Matthews is clearly Auston Matthews. It's like, whew. Yeah, like, oh, he's just good again.

He's just elite. He's just a top five guy in the world again. It's like, adding that to your team before the playoffs is what you want. Yeah. Like, he was breathtaking yesterday. Oh, my God. Like, I just, I haven't seen him look like that.

I know he's been leading up to it, but yesterday was a culmination of, like, what has been really great progress for him. He looked i'm not like a take guy i actually don't like when people say to me on twitter like bad take or whatever it's like and i don't do takes i just we talk we do opinions i do have a bit of a take though i have never been more confident than i am that like austin matthews not not all injury from october to february part motivation for sure i've had that conversation with people all year long and the pushback i always got is what you think he's not trying it's like well no no no no no i buddy we've seen guys not try vince carter in this market specifically it looks a lot different than a guy just not being a 60 goal guy but

there's just the the little tentpole moments that he had to push him along and nudge him along all the way last year they just weren't here and honestly if if it's going to mean a better austin matthews heading into the playoffs and i know it's ridiculous to think there was a better version than what we saw last year it's the most important thing and the moment that hammered home for me how he's looking now is not the goals that he scored but it was one that he didn't and there was a moment in that nashville game yesterday wide open top corner and if i would have saw that exact play three weeks ago i go yep that's what's happened this year he's had good looks and he's missed them sometimes he scored but more often than not he's missed them and i was genuinely floored that

it didn't go in and that just shows you how quickly a guy like that can effectively turn it on and just make you feel differently about him as a player 100 we do have a clip sheldon keith talking a little bit about austin matthews from saturday he's i mean he's right back to being one of the most dominant players in the league physically dominant hard on the puck winning battles making plays getting to good spots uh he's been terrific just all the things you want a hockey player to do that's right speaking very good very good design so they got him rolling and you know of the things that we were looking to see from the leafs down the stretch it's like okay you want to know that matthews can be the guy who we were we talked about as one of the best players in the world last year you also want to get your goaltending situation figured out yep as you head into the

postseason Samsonov didn't have a great last game but it's kind of felt like he's the guy Murray gives up four on Saturday night how'd you feel about his showing did make some saves he made some saves it was a classic kind of Matt Murray game I think for a lot of this year where you go yeah that was fine it's not enough to throw the guy overboard in terms of the conversation but when you have a guy who's looked like samsonov has looked for most of this year it doesn't do anything to sway me on the way i've been thinking you know murray has had moments and we go back to it the idea of stylistically if it's a more wide open game samsonov is probably better if it's kind of more jam action around the crease maybe murray's your guy but i don't think you can prognosticate what kind of game it's going to be at least until you get into a series against

the team and i don't think that it will i don't think that what i'm seeing out of murray right now makes me think any differently about what i thought heading into the weekend last time we saw samson i know he wasn't great but i still have more faith in him to be the guy the one thing that stood out to me is that his coach this season has gone too bad for him every time he's needed to and he's been bad even you think back to that game i think it was against the sabers he gives up four they lose and he goes he's actually really good and i know you guys think his numbers are bad he's actually been really good that was the first game uh well actually before we carry on on that,

Sheldon Keefe talking about Matt Murray on Saturday night. Matt's been playing really well. I mean, he's under siege early in the hockey game there. You know, so he, I thought he did a good job for us. But, of course, it's difficult to win with any sort of regularity if you have to score more than four. So, you know, Matt's got to find a way to keep one or two of those out that's just the bottom line stop giving up four he's just like stop giving up four what this gave me flashbacks to was i know uh our guy sam mckee refused to to watch it but the this is the behind the scenes amazon series and it was sheldon keith

talking to i'm trying to remember the goaltending coach at the time. And he goes, well, this one was tipped. Okay, cool. Just stop. Pick one. I don't care. Pick one of those. Find a way to stop it.

And this is the thing. You can have so much faith and belief in a guy. And we've talked ad nauseum about the fact that Murray's going to be here next year on the team and they know him and going back to the Sioux and all of that stuff and the pedigree. But at a certain point in time, you do run out of trying to explain it away for a guy and you just got to go you need to be better you need to find a way and Samsonov has been the guy who's found the way so much more often this season and it's just with Murray yeah there have been nights where he's got hung out to

dry there were a couple late ones that are really unfair to him totally but that's not every game that he's given up for in this stretch yeah yeah well i think maybe there is a there's a new solution in that potentially okay you liked wall a lot eh last night i've liked them like i don't kipper was kipper's been talking about this forever about having these like oh you know they should give him a little bit of run maybe to get him ready but he's a young athletic big goalie and he just is solid tall solid you know he's just not flying around in there like to me he's obviously not the answer but love it if a guy goes down i'd feel somewhat confident with him like it's not like you're putting michael hutchinson or you

know or shaldren like this guy to me has some upside. Mike McKenna is always talking about him. I feel much differently about wool than Shalgren. I love that conversation. Cause last year we had people going, what about Shalgren? His numbers are good is whatever. And I was like, I don't know. I don't see it.

What I love when he makes the save on the two on O two on one, you know, cross push and on Sunday night there, he comes across the net, but he does it with his chest back and up. He's not flailing across on his stomach. Like he's still in a goaltending position as he makes that push across the crease. And I was like,

man, pretty darn good and pretty encouraging. You know, you look at this tandem, it's not at all out of question that Murray gets hurt or Samson off gets hurt for that matter. We had a lot of these conversations last week, and I feel like that was the thing that was left unsaid is like, oh, of course, Matt Murray is going to be healthy for another month. Right.

When has that ever happened? Yeah, yeah. So, you know, it's very possible one of those two have that. It's also possible like Murray can't give up four goals every game. You just can't. It's been six to seven, and eventually they'll say. I mean, since January 1st, he has a 3-6-8 and an 8-8-5. So, yes, he can. four goals every game you just can't it's been six to seven and eventually they'll say i mean since january 1st he has a 368 and an 885 so yes he can't literally almost averages it in fact

if he does that for the next he's gonna there's nine games left i presume he's gonna start four of them yep if he does that four more times yeah you're right he still goes in he's still the back there's just not enough run right where i'm going with that is you can see a world one of them's hurt or one of them is out and walls on the bench and someone sucks for a game or a period and he's got to go in i think there's a 10 chance you see him play some playoff hockey this year yeah i wholeheartedly agree with that this is the guy who's had just enough rope to prove he is a viable option if two or three things go wrong yeah there's just not enough i i honestly believe if this was and of course this goes without saying but it's if we were at game 35 of the season i think there's a world where joe wall

given what he's showing in this little spell of games they'd say maybe we do need to mix them in maybe we do need to see what we have i agree with that take but there's just not enough time to take show there you go but there's just not enough time. The take show take. There you go. But there's just not enough time. There's just not. And when our boy Mike McKenna says good things about a goalie, I always listen.

I know. You perk up a little bit, eh? Well, because there was a guy that was... I trust anyone who loves Vasilevsky. Yeah, he knows. Yeah. You want to talk about a good take. Yeah.

But Dr. Philosophical always tweets at us a bunch of good questions and stuff. And he asked about Wall. And he said, McKenna said that Wall would already be a full-time questions and stuff. And he asked about Wall and he said, McKenna said that Wall would already be a full-time in the NHL if he hadn't battled so many injuries. So he likes his pedigree. Like, if I'm setting the over-under at one and a half playoff games for Joseph Wall, what are you taking?

Privately, I will. I'm taking under because he's got, I don't want him to start any of them. Things have gone off the rails of his starting. Like, I think there's one very clear route to this where one of these guys gets hurt which is extremely possible like you guys just mentioned and then the backup the other guy struggles in the first two games and you're like we gotta win a game we're throwing the kid in there god it's not at all out of the realm it's really not that far down the road this is why it was so important why our show really was like need a goalie really was like, need a goalie, need a goalie, need a goalie.

The one thing we may have gotten wrong, and I will say that I got wrong, is they had a lot of faith in Wohl. I think they basically said, who's better than Joseph Wohl? And said, we're not sure that this guy is going to be better. We actually do have a clip on Keefe after we've talked it to death. Let's have Keefe on Joe Wohl if if we can yeah probably probably a perfect way again you know for joe to enter the game you know a credit to to nashville that came out that came out hard they're for checking well they're on top of us there um clearly their game plan early on was to

shoot the puck from everywhere i think they even you know, they registered a shot from about three feet below the goal line. At one point, they were shooting from everywhere and got Joe engaged in the game and it inflated the shot clock a little bit, but I liked how our guys just stayed with it, recognizing it's a 60-minute game. And then, you know, once we got through their forecheck

a little bit, I thought we didn't really look back from there at 5-on-5. He's very sensitive to miscounting of the shots he really is hey that's like the third time he's ventured at the season i know that's his refs that's me with the refs but it's him with the shot clock there in in terms of what you get out of wall it's just he and i like what keith said there because and not so much with shalgren and not that we think wall is any of these guys or we wouldn't even be having a conversation about him. But so often what has happened with this Leafs team in the past is backup goalie comes in, be it Hutchinson or whoever, and he just can't hack it immediately. He gives up a goal on the first two, three shots he faces and the team just gets deflated there.

And with Joe Wall, it seemed to be the exact opposite. It was, oh, OK, we kind of stubbed our toe to start this game. They came out flying. It makes sense. It was a team who was sitting at home. You're early it's a sunday and he held you in the game he didn't win the game for you by any means you we talk about how dominant pretty much every leaf was in that game with an e-lander aside but the but wall held them in it and allowed them to win it he didn't win it for them but he made it possible for them to do so. So, yeah, with along that point is one I wanted to make.

You know, they go into this game. There's 10 games left in playoffs. And I've said on this show that with 10 games left, I want to see them go with their playoff lineup. We start to solidify what it's really going to look like. Suddenly they go with 6D. Suddenly it's Lilligren and Gustafson out. And suddenly they look like a pretty good defensive team. Last night, Sheldon did

mention it in the postgame, was the lowest amount of slot shots they've given up this season. I think it was four slot shots all game. So Joel has the opportunity to look good because of how well they defended. I thought they defended well because of the pairs, the structure that they played in. You're right. It was

a boring game. Nashville's not great offensively actually okay let me phrase that they suck yep not not a good offensive team but they did a great job in that regard um why don't we listen to sheldon talk about give his game overview and then we'll go deeper on that to score more with the chances that we had to extend our lead and make it a little more comfortable there you leave them within striking distance and that's why you know that they and make it a little more comfortable there. You leave them within striking distance, and that's why they have a chance to get a push there in the third. But our penalty kill gave up more than I would have liked today in terms of chances. But a five-on-five again here tonight, just defensively, I thought we were excellent.

In fact, it's four slot shots against that five on five it's the lowest we've given up all season so you know i'm not going to complain about that effort you steal that from you it's i didn't know that sam even clipped that i'm all over your job i'm all over it you guys are just so lockstep it is it's great so yeah they um you know they defended like gangbusters pairs wereairs were McCabe and Brody, Riley and Shen, and that left Gio and Hall, I think. Is that right? Yep, that's how it works.

Your thoughts on the D? I think, you know, Luke Shen is a guy who could look pretty capable and good in a game against a Preds team where there's not a lot of high end speed or skill. That's my one pushback to the D pair look great because guess what they did look great i really do like the idea of riley being in maybe a slightly more sheltered pair where he's allowed to just go and push and do those things the only concern with that and hey if they win around it's a lengthy playoff run kind of mission accomplished as is but how long can you ask mark giordano to do that not playing regular season hockey

but playing regular season hockey, but playing regular season hockey. If that's how you're going to structure it of McCabe and Brody or your shutdown pair, and then maybe you use Gio and Hall as your kind of secondary shutdown pair, and then it's Riley and Shen, or should it be Riley and Lilligren at some point in time, you can kind of let them freestyle a little bit more.

That's the only thing I would say to kind of pump the brakes a little, but I don't think they really need to be pumped because i really like those those those groups together uh we've seen we tried the riley hall thing a million times it's never worked it's like those guys trade sticks when they're out there they start shooting with the wrong hand it's bad it's really really bad yeah so that just doesn't work and then that kind of forces your hand if you want to shut down para mckay brody which i think we're all in agreeance we want we like yeah then you got to put you got to put riley with the guy who makes the most sense for the group not for him and that's going to be

shen or lilligren or whoever it is interesting because geo and hall geo ends up playing 20 34 last night which you know that's probably more than you want to ask him to do um but mckay brody and i you know kind of mentioned that initially, they've only played, okay, 32 minutes this weekend was their total. Sounds about right. Yeah, so not bad time on ice at 5-on-5. The Leafs outshot the opponent 50-17 when they were on the ice. Their expected goals total was 90%. Did Matthews have all those shots?

Yeah, maybe. But they absolutely controlled the play mccabe is up in the play now he's involved like brody makes gives him that stability i know everyone is better with brody but boy that's intriguing if you're looking to shut down kucherov stamko's point any of those top lines i know and i know we're talking about shutdown now but the thing i like with mccabe is that he is finally not finally it's looked like this for a couple of games now but he's clearly comfortable with the skill level around him you look at the teams he's played on before this he played on some bad sabers teams and he played

on a genuinely putrid blackhawks team and there were just a few moments where he looked a little out of sync with guys more so in the offensive zone and that's all gone away and he's just clearly more comfortable now he's been making moves. He had a little rush, mini breakaway against the Panthers, the Hurricanes on the weekend there. Really, really like what you're seeing out of him. And yeah, Brody just makes everybody's job easier. Here is, oh, do we have Luke Fox now? We do.

Hello, Luke. How are you, pal? I'm doing okay. How are you guys? We're doing great. We're just talking about the world's best D pair, that is Brody and McCabe. I mean, off to an unbelievable start, I guess,

to their sort of relationship. I don't know if that's going to be a pair that sticks around. Do you think that will be something that the Leafs keep heading into the first round against Tampa Bay? I tend to think so, just because that was the first option Sheldon Keefe went for once they acquired Jake McCabe. And TJ Brody, I think part of it

because TJ Brody is the easiest guy to play with. So, hey, let's put the new guy with Brody because it'll ease him into his game. He's the safest guy to play with. Sheldon Keefe said that he really wants a shutdown pair, kind of mimicking what Jake Muzzin used to be a part of, and he sees Jake McCabe as the best Muzzin replacement. So I think they'll do that, but, I mean, just judging by Keefe's, you know, knack for wanting to tinker

and try different things and the fact that Brody's kind of the fixer, I wouldn't be surprised if we see some Riley Brody as well. But I think he would like to see a pure shutdown pair go against Tampa's top line. So you mentioned the Riley Brody thing there. That's the issue they keep bumping up against when they try to make their pairs. Everybody is better with Brody, so it's not lost on anybody that, of course, Riley is going to be.

But he feels like kind of the only guy in the top four that Riley can fit with because, you know, Riley Hall, we've seen that. It does not work. Riley McCabe, I don't know that we've seen that it does not work riley mccabe i don't know that we've got a long spell of it but i don't know that you necessarily you know want want uh mccabe playing on his you know offside there what do you think they end up doing with riley i mean you said they're going to try it with brody but if you want to have a shutdown pair i don't think

you can have riley and brody together and it just that seems to continue to be the issue every time you try to put D pairs together with this team. Yeah, it's funny. It's like individually, there's so many great assets with this D core, and the defense has taken a large step this year, and then you bring in all these new guys, three new guys, and they all have good attributes, but the mix doesn't seem right it's that it seems like unnatural and and I so I understand why there's all this tinkering and I wonder if you know the road approach might be different than the home approach and having last change and if that

dictates things a little bit for Sheldon Keefe, not just for the D pairs, but for the forward lines too. I was thinking when Ryan O'Reilly gets back, are they going to use him as a more stacked second line and push Tavares to the wing and do that at home when they can control things and maybe on the road when they can't control things do they have you know they spread it out a little bit and have Riley O'Reilly as a as a third line center so I wonder how the home and road and how last change and the chess match that he's going to engage with John Cooper affects his lineup and I think what we're seeing right now is he wants flexibility.

Like whatever we see in game one is probably not what we're going to see in game three. And I think we're going to see a lot of movement unless there's, you know, resounding success out of the gate. Yeah. And it'll be interesting to see just you mentioning O'Reilly there. I know he was on the road with the team. He was skating.

Do we have any insight on when he can potentially get back in the lineup or when that's looking like? Because to me, it feels like the team's on a bit of a treadmill until then. You can't really set your forward lines until you know what's going on with him. Do we have any update on his status? No, nothing more clear than the fact that I think it's a good sign that he went on the road trip. You know, the team, after a back-to-back took a full

day off today they're back practicing tomorrow uh he hasn't been ruled out for wednesday against florida um i i think that would be you know best case scenario but you know this is a team that basically has uh home ice advantage locked up you know i was looking at the 98.5% chance of locking up home ice. So if you think there was nothing left to play for a week ago or two weeks ago, there's really not much left to play for. So health is going to be the absolute priority. But with that in mind, I do think they want to, or Sheldon Keefe wants to get things up and running

and starting to drill down on his lines as fast as possible. And in order to do that, he needs O'Reilly in the lineup. I mean, the very fact that they were toying so much with 11-7, he said was largely due to the fact that O'Reilly wasn't there. Because all of a sudden, then you have a forward that's going to eat up a bunch of minutes. So if he's good to go, I'm sure he'll play wednesday if not maybe saturday um but i would expect it to be within a week wow that's uh interesting that it'll be that soon and i think

a good sign for o'reilly too in terms of being playoff ready gotta hate the idea of games where the goals just don't get injured doesn't even matter what you do just don't get hurt um yeah looking at that uh top line spot like michael bunting has been with matthews and marner a lot in the past we've seen him uh be a top six guy basically the whole time plays on the third line last game callie yarn crock has got a lot of run here with matthews and marner and boy i don't know it looks pretty darn good to me do you see Do you see Bunting getting his old spot back? You know, a week ago I probably would have said yes, but now I'm a little conflicted.

I know. Like, good on Cali, right, for making this a difficult decision for Sheldon Keefe. Like, personally, I think Alexander Kirkwood is better suited to the bottom six than the top six. So, you know, maybe Bunting gets up on the second line Personally, I think Alexander Kirpwit is better suited to the bottom six than the top six. So maybe Bunting gets up on the second line and maybe not all the way to the top with Matthews. That was one of the best lines in hockey all of last season. So I'm sure we'll see him there at some point. But Yarncroft is making that a difficult choice. And what was really interesting to me was um after the game in ottawa matt murray's

return against the senators and we were asking shelvin keith about yarn croc and how he's fitting on that line and the fact that he mentioned that matthews went to him and said i like having yarn croc on my line i I think that that was really interesting. Now at that point, it was a choice between Kerfoot and Yaron Kroc, not, you know, he's not dissing his buddy, a big Mike there, but Callie can finish and he can shoot. He almost got scored a nice goal.

Lastly, we're not for, for a great save, but yeah, good, good on him for heating up at the right time and kind of establishing himself in the top six now. And you know what was really interesting is not when the Leafs were just in Nashville, but when the Predators came to visit, we were talking to Philip Forsberg, who had played with him with the Predators,

and said, you know what? He needs to play with good players. And he can't drive his own line. He was incapable of scoring a lot when he was stuffed down on the third line. But he's a great complement to really good players. So maybe Sheldon stumbled onto something here. That was the problem in Nashville. Just Philip Forsberg was the only other dynamic forward.

And they're going, what are we doing? We got to get another guy for him to play with yeah the the shooting aspect obviously makes a ton of sense there we give marner a ton of love rightfully so for being you know one of the best passers in the league his vision his patience all of that stuff matthews is a really capable passer and honestly sometimes a little too willing of a of a path through time so i do think that's a that's a nice fit there uh you mentioned Kerfoot. We, we joke, we all have said literally all the jokes about him, but is he finding something here?

That was Ovechka to snipe from him off the wing. I don't know what's going on. It does seem to me like he's a guy who we're going to constantly be down on or because of the contract. But at the end of the day, he, you know, he does continue to be a,

I won't say crucial because he's not, but an important cog for this team. Like he's going to be on i won't say crucial because he's not but an important cog for this team like he's going to be on a third line that matters it feels like i don't think you're going to see him on the fourth line there it's funny what a whipping boy he is and again i'm not going to say it's wrong to to treat him thusly but he does seem to continue to find his way to have a role on this team night in night out no for sure he does and the coach absolutely loves him he loves the fact that he can move around wherever and plug him in and he doesn't complain and he's you know just puts his work boots on and he's responsible defensively and all those things of course you know i get it

fans want to see way more finish from him and his shooting percentage is uh you know historically low when you look over his career he's just having a brutal year and maybe it's starting to turn he gets a couple of goals on the most recent road trip so that that's a positive sign but the other thing is he's really beloved in the room and he's kind of part of he doesn't wear a letter but he's part of the kind of extended leadership core there um you know, he's one of the guys, right? And I think that's important. Like, he's in the conversations of what they should do,

and he's a team player. He's a team-first guy, defensively responsible. You just hope this is the start of something, the fact that, you know, the puck's going in for him a little bit now. Luke, we're 30 minutes into the show, and's been all positivity so here we go uh william kneelander okay yeah it's a little lol right yeah not quite the same guy we saw a couple months ago yeah and and you know what it basically this has been his best season like he he there was a case where you know,

the first half of the season where you're debating who's been Maple Leafs' best forward. Is it Marner or Neyland? And, you know, Matthews and Tavares are kind of a little step behind. Willie's been that dominant. I can't help but think part of it has to do with motivation, right? Like, it's got to be hard

it's so promising the fact that matthews is picking up the slack and looking like a beast again because how are you getting motivated for these games like i mentioned that there's literally nothing to play for except stay healthy and keep your game sharp um so hopefully you know we got a what 10 11 games left or so and and hopefully you can wake up and get it going because i i thought i don't know if you guys saw patrick kane talk i think it was after last night's game or the night before but you know that there's a guy that that's you know gone all the way three times but he's also been eliminated in the first round before like he's seen it all he's been

through tons of post seasons and he was talking about the rangers situation and saying basically there's no such thing as flipping a switch you you think you can do it but you can't you have to go into the playoffs feeling good about your game and in a groove and that's important he's like yes we got to stay healthy and rested and all those things. But we also have to stay on our toes, like have our game in shape for when the puck drops in game 83. And you want to think for Nylander's sake, for the Leafs' sake, that he starts to get rolling and get feeling good.

You know, Tavares gets the points on the power play, but five on five, that second line has been just a little bit off. And maybe it's as simple as Ryan O'Reilly coming back healthy and everything falling into place and things getting going again. But you have to think, especially for a guy like Nylander, motivation has got to be tricky

when the standings don't mean a whole heck of a lot right now. Yeah, I'm going to go a little the other way, not disagreeing with anything you're saying. I'm just going to say this has come at the perfect time. There's still enough time for him to round himself into form. William Nylander was not going to go 82 games and then hopefully a nice long playoff run without ever needing a little adjustment.

So I think this is the perfect time for it to happen. Joe Wall, he wasn't perfect but he was pretty damn good against the predators i don't think there's enough time left in this season i don't think there's enough pedigree or you know track record at the nhl level for them to seriously be looking at him but you know maybe as soon as next year all of a sudden is this a guy who should really be factoring into the Leafs' goaltending picture? I think next year for sure. This is ramping up for him to challenge for a spot. And whether that means a trade or something else,

but I think he's proven enough at the AHL level and in his short stints at the NHL level that this is a guy you want on your books and and part of it most of it is his play but secondarily his price point he's making 766 thousand dollars for next season and the season following that and really oh he's on the team really really tidy bit of business um last offseason by kyle dubas you know for for locking him up when his stock was low and he'd been through some injuries and his ahl numbers weren't that great last season so for him to and and if you're if you're the athlete how do you not

sign that that guaranteed money yeah when you have it you haven't really proven much but um you know this is this this could finally be it like yeah you know you haven't, you haven't really proven much, but you know, this is, this, this could finally be it. Like, you know, you don't want to count your chickens before their hatch, but this could be finally it.

Like how long if Maple Leafs fans are waiting for a homegrown goalie? He looks, he looks really solid. The only goalies goals he let in last night were off deflections. He stood tall. He's big. He's calm. He's an awesome kid, too.

Like, if you ever get a chance to talk to him, he's just – he's got the right mindset for this sport. He's really appreciative, really dedicated to his craft. Still young. Goalies peak a little bit later, so he's 24. He could be a steal, especially for a team desperate, for guys that overachieve based on their cap hit. So it's an interesting spot because it's kind of like Murray and Samsonov.

It's so unsettled on the year. Like who's going to be the starter? Who's going to be here next year? Like it really comes down to who takes us home here, boys. Like who has a good first round series? Who gets the starts? It's all so undecided. comes down to who takes us home here boys like who who has a good first round series who gets the starts it's also undecided and now part of that is going to be who can get you through a playoff round that obviously is the ultimate question here now and that depends on how tampa

bay plays too do you have any thoughts about what's going on in tampa if you scroll to the far right part of the standings they've've got an L4 in their street category. They've lost four in a row. They are not doing what Patrick Kane said and going in hot. What's going on in Tampa? Yeah, it's interesting, right? And again, I think it's one of those things where what's the incentive? But you're playing with fire but you're playing with

fire right because like you can't i i agree with kane like i don't think you can just flip a switch i mean if any team could flip a switch it might be the tampa bay lightning but i don't think you can just flip it like that i think you have to go in feeling good and confident the one thing for the lightning they they really don't care if they have home ice. No. They did not have home ice in any of their rounds last season. Ended up winning three. Almost came within two wins of going for the three-peat.

They're kind of a ridiculously confident and talented group that doesn't mind starting on the road. But I do think there's a danger in them not getting their game rounded into form here. And it's good news for the Maple Leafs. Because the Leafs haven't gone on one of those crazy heaters where they won like seven or eight in a row. But their losing skids are like one game, two games max. Ever since October, when things were falling apart,

it feels like a lifetime ago, when things were falling apart on that California road trip, they haven't lost three in a row. They've gotten really good about washing away the off nights. They'll throw a stinker pretty good, but they don't let it linger. Right. Like they, they respond really well. Whereas things are festering a little bit now in Tampa. All right, Luke. Well, thank you so much for your time today, man. We really appreciate it.

Oh yeah. Anytime. And Justin, I picked up your book, started reading it. Fun fact. Yes. I was born 12, 12 at 12, 12 p.m no wow yeah are you kidding me i'm not kidding yeah that's absolutely well yeah i also born at 12 12 on 12 12 look at me and luke yeah couple of dirty dozens here you go out of way fella well thank you for purchasing the book i appreciate the support man all right all right have a good one uh luke fox there we go beat writer and nhl analyst for sportsnet.ca good stuff curveball at the end yeah i did not see that coming thought i was the only person on earth born on december no i didn't but still that is fascinating the exact hour and minute and all that so the the stuff about you know wool and his salary really feels like they're

gonna keep leafs will keep one of samson off and Murray and Wohl will be the other guy. 100%. And I mean, the easy thing to say, just based on the way contracts are set up already, is that they hope that's Murray. And this is the whole conversation we've had all year long, is that if you think Wohl is a guy

who can be your 1B or your backup, who eventually turns into your starter or whatever it is, then you already have a guy under contract. And just, I'm not talking about matt murray's play as of late but just the way you set it up starting goalie at four or five and your backup who can push him at 750 that's perfect you're laughing the fact that samsonov's an rfa does kind of complicate things but i think they and again this is all going to be predicated

on what happens in the playoffs if elia samsonov goes on some great run i mean i suppose i could still trade him because they're not gonna be able to pay him but the it's just going to be they're going to be able to flip him much easier than they would be matt murray or just completely walk away from him whereas murray given the cap and everything is going to be here but yeah wall at 750 i'll take i will take that right now and this isn't about wanting to jettison one of those guys well i mean i would if i could with matt murray but he's not going anywhere yeah but 750, it's great. It is interesting because, yeah, like if you trade Samsonov and keep Murray, you gain another asset. Samsonov will have value in a trade.

If you trade Murray to keep Samsonov, it's costing you an asset. So you better be sure Samsonov is the better guy. Oh, what? Can't they just do the Peter Mrazik thing and just trade back the three or four draft slots? Isn't that all that cost them to get Mrazik? That's right back the three or four draft slots is now all that costs them to help. I don't think that'll happen. No, very unlikely.

All right. That was Luke Fox. When we come back, we'll speak with Mike Kelly, a hockey analyst, specializing analytics, the NHL network and sport logic. We'll talk to you in a moment.

Discussing the biggest stories that matter to Toronto sports fans, the fan morning show with a Lish Forfar and Justin Cuthbert subscribe and download the show on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts this is real kipper and born on sportsnet 590 The Van. All right. Welcome back to Real Kipper and Born featuring Brent Gunning. We are now joined by my man, Mike Kelly, hockey analyst specializing in analytics with the NHL Network. Mike, how are you doing today, pal?

What is happening? I'm doing all right. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. We just have been having positive Leafs conversations less than a month from playoffs. How do you feel about us doing that? That's the time to do it, isn't it?

Yeah, it's ideal. It's just we're supposed to be full of fear and negativity. Are you going to be able to do it in five weeks? Oh, well, we sure hope so. Are you skeptical that we'll be able to do it in five weeks? I'm not. You like them. I've been wrong about a lot of things in my life,

and I'll be wrong about a lot more things before this day is over. But I have publicly picked the Maple Leafs playoff fortunes correctly six years in a row. Oh, boy. And I will be making another pick this year, and I anticipate I'll be correct again, but I'm not saying I'm picking them to lose. I'm not saying I'm picking them to lose.

I'm just saying, given the work that we do in the country I live in and the market that Toronto is, I spend an inordinate amount of time, you know, looking at that team. And I've been right in the past, so we'll see how it goes in a couple weeks. There's still some hockey to be played. I'm not going to ask you about them then because I want to know about their opponent a little bit and what you think of the Tampa Bay Lightning.

Here's what I love about you, Mike. You're not just a numbers guy. You know hockey. This Tampa Bay Lightning team has been around and had success and veteran experience and all that stuff. First off, do they look okay by the numbers? And do you believe it's going to matter come playoff time anyway? See, that's a great point.

And, you know, Colorado kind of limped into the playoffs last year. They lost six of seven, seven of eight, something like that going in. Steamrolled everybody. Right. It's not necessarily the be-all, end-all that you need to be hot going in, and there's still time. Tampa could end up being that. But, yeah, it's been troubling to a point now where a month ago

I probably would have said all things being equal with those two teams being so similar, give an edge to Tampa Bay. If that edge still exists, it's fading quickly. And Toronto's playing some good hockey, but the Lightning, they're still getting it from their big guys. Hedman's a monster, and Point is, he might score 50 goals this year. And Kucherov's doing his thing, Stamkos is great. The depth forwards and their decor overall is not what it's been in years past.

It's the least, it's the worst it's been of the four iterations we're talking about, the three teams that went to the Cup Final, and this one. And, you know, I give a lot of credit to Julian Breesbaugh and his group for doing everything they can to keep this team as good as it is year over year and competing for Stanley Cups. That's almost impossible to do in a salary-capped league, a hard-capped league like the NHL. So it's just a reality.

And that's where, you know, the goaltending, it's been a bit down lately, but you can't even worry about that with Vasilevsky. His track record in the playoffs and overall is too good. But I do worry about this team in terms of their decor overall and their bottom of their lineup. So when you look at the Lightning's kind of recipe, what they've done is they've had those big studs, but they've gone out and they've kind of you know brought in really

important pieces like that a guy like nick paul a guy like brandon hagel this year's version of it was tanner juneau and you know i will count myself among the many here in toronto who were terrified to criticize that move at the time it has been 15 games he is a dash six and has three points did they pick the wrong guy this year to go all in on their RFA strategy? It remains to be seen, but it's a totally fair question at this point. I said this when they got him at the deadline, and I kind of stand by it. It almost doesn't matter to me in a way what he does offensively in terms of goals and assists and points.

And obviously you want him to get them, of course, but everything in that sense was down from last year where he had this monster shooting percentage year, and we all knew that would be unsustainable to a point. But it's gone the other way now where it's unsustainably low. But I think the reasons that they got him are, you look at his puck recoveries, his forechecking, first guy in on a dump in,

disruptive play in the offensive zone. All that stuff is where it was last year. And if that's why they got him, if that's why they said, you know, look, this guy can do all that stuff for us to help us tee up his line mates, keep pucks in the O zone, maybe force a team to defend for 40 seconds so they have to change and they can't attack us. He's good in those areas still um at some point yeah you probably need a bit of offense and you're hoping that that happens but

um he's still the disruptive player he has been it just doesn't have the points to show for it yeah you can see why he thought they fit the mold of their good rows and uh coleman's and gourds and all those type of guys but yeah hasn't panned out yet we'll be uh we'll be interested to see how that goes so along that lines of having depth you know here in canada we're looking at teams that can go deep the oilers are the other team that gets a lot of attention for that and i look at them and i go holy smokes like hyman's legit career year rnh evander kane can do things they get at home and i am I just I think they're so good and I they just can't seem to climb up the standings you know they're they're now seven points behind Vegas for the division they're probably going to finish in third in the Pacific but they feel like a team to

me that could win some rounds go deep have a real shot of this thing are you bearish bullish how do you feel about the Oilers uh yeah I'm kind of with you I'm I'm uh I'm a believer but you know a team that I love is the LA Kings really and I love the Kings I said it at the deadline when they got Korpisalo and Gavrikov I'm like this could be the team to come out of the west and since then they've got the best points percentage in the league they give up nothing like they're so good defensively and now they've got a goalie. And they can score. We saw that last night.

If the Oilers play the Kings in the first round, which may very well happen, one of them's gone and it's either the best offensive team in the league or one of the best defensive teams in the league. So it's hard for me to say yeah. I think either one of them's going to go far. They're going to have to play each other probably.

And one of them is going to be out. Well, that's, that's so unfortunate. We don't know anything about that here, Mike. I know. I know. The best part is say Toronto wins this year. You probably get Boston the next round, which might be the best team of all time in the regular season.

So it's cool. Cool. Cool. Yeah. Anyways, anyways, I think I've been thinking go for sure. of all time in the regular season. Cool, cool, cool, cool. Yeah. Anyways, anyways. I think Edmonton can go for sure. It's defense slash goaltending and more goaltending to me that is the thing to worry about.

Like, you know, they're in the middle of the pack and expected goals against. That's team defense. That's fine. You can win with that. Goaltending has – if the goaltending could just be there, I think they'd be a legit contender but it's been less than that in skinners you know better than campbell we get that but um they still have

to score a lot to win a lot um and that's where i wonder if uh maybe i don't know if the kings would be the team um but if the team gets in there and can kind of you know beat that goaltender enough times i meanon's just gonna have to score four five six goals to win games yeah the the scary part is that that might not be all that hard for him to do depending on uh and it doesn't even matter who's in that on the other side of things that's the terrifying thing about the oilers in a playoff series is just can you keep connor and leon quiet for four games in seven and probably not is going to be the answer to that so you are gonna have to run it up you know I want to ask you about Darnell nurse.

You know, he's a guy who I think of a lot of times kind of in a comparison to Morgan Riley, not that they're the same player, but in a guy in a Canadian market who it's, Hey, here's our number one defenseman. Are we sure he's a number one defenseman? Where are you out on Darnell nurse and what he's given the Oilers this year? Yeah.

I like the comparison just in the sense of kind of what they're asked to do i think in years past riley had had to kind of do a lot of everything be the real number one guy but also the offensive guy and um now they've got you know guys in there like mccabe and giordano and brody over the years um where nurse i think it's a bit of that from at home being there and that's like a great ripple effect um having Ekholm there. Number one, he comes in and he plays really well. And he's a good puck mover and a good defender and all those things. Bouchard's been better playing with him as a result.

And Nurse has been able to kind of scale down his minutes a little bit and not have to eat as much of everything. That makes him a better player. So, you know, you kind of get three benefits out of one acquisition in Ekholm which I think is great for Edmonton and like I said they defend well enough for a team that scores as much as they do it's more on the goaltending side I think than having an issue defensively in terms of the team all right so we had you weigh in on you know our interesting Canadian teams and the first round opponent for the Leafs I wanted to look a little bit at the playoff races,

specifically the wild-card races. In the East right now, Florida sits three points behind the Pittsburgh Penguins, four points behind the New York Islanders. It's down to those three teams who get in. Is there one team who you either really like or really dislike out of those three teams? Sorry, Florida, say it again? There's Florida, Pittsburgh, and the Islanders.

Do any of them stand out as great or awful? Yeah, I kind of don't like any of them. Everyone's limping around trying to get into the playoffs, right? Like no one's taking the ball and running with it. So every time I think Florida, because they're so good offensively, every time I think, you know, hey so good offensively, every time I think, you know, hey, they're winning some games, they're scoring, everything's going again, they just take a step back too. So I think Florida, like below Florida is out at this point.

I know Buffalo is kind of hanging around. I think they're all out. And, you know, in the West, I think the eight is set. But yeah, Pittsburgh annoys me. Florida disappoints me. And the Islanders kind of bore me. And I've been anti-boring Islanders narrative forever. When they went to those conference finals, they score. They play a great brand of

hockey, a winning brand. I defended them. But it's hard now. So, you know, they're still winning. And they got Barzell coming. And Pittsburgh's the one that disappoints me just because I see them playing their best hockey. Everyone's connected, right? That old cliche, five guys, every zone.

They know how to do it, and so often they can't. And when they're playing their best, I still think, hey, they can win rounds. They're really good, but it just very rarely happens. It's funny when I look at like the sport logic graphic, you guys have in the, one of your back pages talking about expected goals for an expected goals against like Pittsburgh and Florida score a ton.

Don't particularly defend the Islanders kind of do everything. Okay. Not that interesting. Two teams really stand out to me though. You mentioned LA as a, basically the best defensive team in the league by expected goals against. The New Jersey Devils are the best offensive team in the NHL by expected goals for. Do you think they can make some headway in the playoffs? To me, they seem like a young team that, you know,

run and gun hasn't worked in the playoffs, but boy, they sure create offense. Don't they? Yeah, you make for sure do. And that's, you know, I talked to a lot of hockey people when I'm down at the network that played in the league and, and morning, you played a high level two and no tons of hockey people. And the thing with the devils all year, I've gotten it all year as I pumped their tires from day one is well,

young guys and when push comes to shove and it gets hard. Smaller. And you don't know. Yeah, you don't know, right? Like, there's no way to know other than you can certainly cite examples where that's been the case for sure. There's a million examples where teams have had to kind of get punched in the face a couple times in the playoffs

before they win. Happened to Tampa. Happens to a lot of teams. And this is New Jersey. Like, they were a terrible team last year. So to expect them to go on some massive run would be a lot. Either way, it's going to be a great learning experience for the group as they go forward as a good, young, elite team. But like you said, I mean, they're not one-dimensional in how they create offense.

Yeah, they're, you know, top five in goals and expected goals and number one in chances off the rush. But they can forecheck and they can work the puck in the O zone. And they're really good defensively. And that, to me, matters in the playoffs. So, yeah, that's the thing, though. They're probably going to get the Rangers. And one of two great teams is going to be gone.

So it could be the Devils. It's why it's so hard to take first-round losers and say necessarily, oh, yeah, there needs to be changes for next year because we didn't win a playoff round. There's a lot of teams that are going to lose in the first round this year that in any other year could win a Stanley Cup. Right. Yeah, the point I always make with that is just look no further this year

than Florida and Calgary. Those were two teams that, and I know there were extenuating circumstances for both of them to a certain extent, but they said, you know what, we got to reset. We got to blow it up. And it's worked out not well for either of them. I know Florida might sneak in here. I understand, and Calgary same. But yeah, it's just that that's going to be the kind of careful what you wish for thing

that I think will hang over a lot of teams this summer. You mentioned the Devils there. Obviously, the team at the top of the division in the Metro, still Carolina, they suffered the huge injuries. Pacioretty and Svechnikov, it was a team that generated a lot of shots, but they struggled with having dynamic talent. How do you expect the loss of Svechnikov? I mean, I don't think it hurts them in a series against whoever gets in for that wildcard spot,

but when they got to go through either the Devils or the Rangers, I do think that'll be a problem for them. What do you think of that? Yeah, I think it's their most dynamic offensive player. Like, I think Ajo's their best forward. But Sveshnikov's their most, like, kind of game-breaker type offensive player. It's a huge loss. And, you know, the good thing for Carolina is they kind of get it done by committee a lot. They've got the stall line, which is a great matchup, shutdown-type line.

And they just have a lot of really good players, Ajo and Natchez. And you go up and down. There's a lot of guys that play really well. Their decor is just stacked. And, you know, they still win with defense a lot. They're first in expected goals, second and goals against. So that's always going to keep you competitive. And, you know, Freddie can be a good enough goalie for them. So that's, that's good.

But that's where I I'm with you, where I think I'd be shocked if this team ends up in a Stanley cup final this year. I'd be surprised even if they get to a conference final. And I've always liked Carolina, but I've never had them as, you know, oh, I think they got a good shot to win the Cup this year. I just, the way they play, they shoot more than anyone. They have the puck less than anyone. And you might think the two automatically go together.

They actually don't quite often. And that's an extreme example. But their game is predicated on skating and dump it in dump it out go get it battle um it's a hard game to play it's a rod brindamore style game to play it's very very effective as we know but as we talk about not being one-dimensional and like just a florida rush type team in the playoffs um there's the other side of it too where like carolina doesn't really generate anything off the Russian with speed and transition. It's shocking to see 32nd in puck possession, aren't they?

Yep. Like that's stunning to me. It really is. For a Canes team that, you know. Wouldn't think of them as an upper tier team, but not dead last. Yeah. That's absolutely bizarre. Yeah.

Well, like I go back to what Barry Trotz said one time, where he talked about playing a puck possession game by giving the puck up. And you have to do that in the playoffs. That's something Tampa Bay learned after the Columbus series and took forward, where you can't skate through everybody all the time. And if you're putting pucks in places where you know you've got maybe a winger that can get there first or a 50-50 battle at the very least,

you're still playing a puck possession game by giving the puck up. Carolina does that quite a bit. The Islanders did it when they were successful with Barry Trotz. There can be a winning formula that way. But it's another one of those things where there's teams that can be way too rush-heavy and one-dimensional in certain ways. There's other teams that can do it differently, but also maybe not have enough dimensions.

I just wonder that about Carolina. All right. Well, last one before we let you go, appreciate all this insight around the NHL. The one thing we talked about last week is the Leafs number since the deadline have been bad. You know,

they have not looked like the same team by the numbers. I imagine things came around this past weekend they've looked better um do you see did you see that after turmoil does it make you worried for the leafs or is this one of those things that maybe maybe just too soon on the chemistry front to to jump the gun here yeah that's a good one um they definitely struggled coming kind of out of the deadline for a while. And I think you look at all the D pairs they used, I mean, I think they're up to like 14 different pairings over 10 minutes since the deadline, something like that.

It's right near the top of the league. And there was an evaluation process clearly happening with Sheldon Keith and the coaching staff, which I think is great. Like, you have to do that. But number one, see what you got and who works with who. But number two, knowing that in the playoffs, you're not going to be going 12 and six, same group every night.

If you need to switch one guy down, move one guy up, you want to know that, okay, well, he's played with him and they've played with that guy. And they'll have that luxury now because they've done so much of it. I don't know what you guys think, but it kind of looks like McKay, Brody, Giordano, Hall are pairings to be had for game one, maybe,

right? Yep. That sounds about right. So then that leaves you with Riley and Gustafson, Shen, Lilligren. You're trying to figure that one out. Like Riley was,

is, was the number one defenseman. And they're trying to figure out i guess who's going to be beside him and there's no chance he's going to be the same six guys every game but what works best when how why ozone d zone bottom guys top guys all of that so i give them a a pass for some of it the play because of the evaluation process but we are starting to come out of it now and like i think that game against carolina you play that game against tampa bay every night you're not going seven and you're winning yeah um so that you know and they played well enough

against nashville too right yeah no for sure you know it's interesting because they have been able to go you know riley labushkin and play riley 22 and lab 13. You know, like they have been able to find ways to do that with ice time allocation. So, well, we'll see if they're able to work it out. Yeah. Sorry, I might cut you off. Go ahead. No, no.

It's going to be fun. And I was thinking about this earlier today. Like, I really do like great Toronto's playing. And as you, as I mentioned before, I'm obviously 0 for 6 and picking them to win a playoff series, so it would take something for me to get to that point. But they're going to start probably at home. There's no pressure on Tampa, which is crazy to think.

They've been to a cup final three years in a row, starting on the road. They'd probably prefer that. But, man, if the playoffs started right now, I'd like the way Toronto's playing and I'd like the way things are sitting. Scary. Okay. Terrifying. You don't even want to

hear that, right? Expectations. I want those wild underdogs. Well, thank you very much for your time, Mike. It's always such a treat to have you on. Appreciate it, bud. Anytime and I always love listening to you guys, so keep it up. Thanks so much. Mike Kelly, hockey analyst,

the NHL network and sport logic telling us that the Leafs are kind of okay. And I think he'd pick them against Tampa Bay and that's good. You want that? You want the numbers guy to think that, but you know, totally feels a little, feels a lot scary. It does just quickly on the deep pairs there.

I know I've talked about it to death, but it feels to me and look a lot of time left. I know it feels like it'll start Riley Shen. Yeah. And then if something happens or you don't like it or whatever, then Lilligren gets in there. That's how I think that'll go. You know, I was talking to someone, someone who works for an NHL team,

the other day, and they were talking about injuries and the last few weeks and the first round. And look, teams get hurt and have to win uh you may remember steven stamkos playing two and a half minutes en route to a tampa bay stanley cup goalie scored yes two and a half minutes you may remember braden point who limped through a leaf series played five minutes in game seven yeah he showed up in the finals for a game or two and they win another stanley cup you know it is there's no excuses no like you know i do bring up tavarez and montreal a lot but like the leafs if you do suffer some unfortunate bounce between here and there you have to be built in a way and playing

a way that you go we got enough we're not dependent on every little bit feels like ancient history i know the most frustrating part about the tavarez thing was it didn't hamper them. They went and won the next three games and then just couldn't close it out because he was there. That's the most frustrating part about it. But I have a feeling there will be plenty of new things for me to get frustrated about a few weeks from now. Carolina just feels like such a treadmill team. They feel like they're going to be this group for the foreseeable future where they got a ton of really good players. And hey, maybe one year they have the goalie

or Ajo goes nuclear in the playoffs or whatever that thing that can happen. Because every year when you look at it, and it is not a blue blood that wins it. When you look at the Capitals, okay, they were a really good team, but they stubbed their toe a million times. It was Ovechkin putting the team on his back, and it was goaltending being great. And you had Backstrom really good.

It's possible Carolina has that, but they just feel like a team that's going to hang around forever win around maybe not maybe win two yeah and they're just going to be part of this conversation but i i i was really critical of them for not going out and pushing getting a meyer or i mean patrick came is never going to go there but it felt like a year to push your chips in well it's interesting i think they're an interesting debate and i think of Tom Dundon when we have this conversation. And I think he looks at the Carolina Hurricanes and he says, if we're awful for a stretch of years, I don't know if people are going to keep coming.

And he's not wrong. I don't know. Yeah. You know, like you worry about the attendance and, you know, keeping it going in a market like that. So when you're pushing all in, you know, you're pushing all in and saying we kind of have to win because you're trading futures and trading picks and i think they're really cautious like three

three years or three seasons ago carolina wins the metro yep um last year they win the metro this year they're gonna win the metro yep or you're close to if they probably should next year or sorry and this summer they're gonna draft eight times yes no nine times so you know like they still have all their picks they got all their first the next three years yeah i think the thing that the only part that kills me about that pragmatic approach to it and again it's all what are you trying to do winner no it's that if you're going to do that don't go sign the just to be a and i love that they did this but from a team building perspective don't go sign the just to be a and i love that they did this but from a team building perspective don't go sign the just to be a jerk offer sheet to yasperi kakanyemi who maybe it pans out to be

a good deal but probably ends up yeah biting you in the butt at the end of that now boy yeah well that's the exact thing about it is that if you're gonna go and it's gonna be let's just build the right steps the whole way and go with it don't and again i'm so happy they did this for the purposes of talking about it but don't just have a mild freak out because montreal did the exact same thing and now you're stuck with a player who's probably overpaid and maybe at the end of the deal it ends up looking okay yep i get that point it is funny they're looking at their draft pick so they have a draft pick in every round for the next three years so all seven you know 21 picks plus additional picks in three rounds so 24 picks in

the next 21 spots seth jarvis is the least 13th overall pick that never hurts we hadn't mentioned this yet and i wanted to make sure we mentioned it uh we were talking about the about mitch marner in the first block the play that he made off his dean last night he's the header is if that goes in that's a top five greatest play in hockey history stop what are you talking about a puck around the boards ring around hard he puts it up in the right direction lands on a stick yeah tic-tac-toe yarn croc waits all day to shoot it into the goalie's chest i don't know if he waited any longer just shoot it in the wide open net man i was all we heard about was yarn crocs release and then that one he took his time on didn't he he took he really waited around that if he waited any longer. Just shoot into the wide open net, man. All we heard about was Jarnkrok's release,

and then that one he took his time on, didn't he? He really waited around. That is an unbelievable play. I watched it a hundred times. Okay, here's what I equate this play to, and I'm going to bring maybe my hottest hockey take to the air here, is I equate it to the Ovechkin goal

against the Coyotes, where the one where he's rolling around, he's sliding on his back. Oh, yeah. It's an incredible play. The athleticism, the coordination. I just don't think of it as a hockey play. Like the play Mitch Marner made against the Oilers,

where he picked off the terrible pass, the McLeod, I think, threw to him, and then he waits out and he puts between. That is an infinitely better hockey play to me. It's really cool. It's really, it shows his awareness and his creativity and all that stuff. And it should a thousand percent

go on the Mitch Marner career highlight tape one day. But it's not really a hockey play. And that's why I think we should give it credit. But it's exactly the same as that Ovechkin goal to me, where it's really cool. I've heard you slander that Ovechkin goal before and I won't have it. You think I'm terribly wrong about it.

Yeah, absolutely I do. Just because it happened in Arizona and you're like, something good happened there. And we would dive more in on that, but do yeah we get to kristin shilton we're gonna get to the break here and we come back we're gonna talk to kristin nhl reporter for espn everything raptors before and after the games the raptor show with will lou subscribe and download the show on apple spot, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Welcome back to Real Kipper and Born. I am Justin Bourne, and we are now joined by kristin shilton nhl reporter

for espn kristin how you doing today i'm good thanks how you guys doing we're doing good thank you so much for joining us we have been um we're in the phase of the season where we just look at the playoffs and wait and talk about the toronto maple leafs to death so making an effort to move away from the leafs here and there with some of our conversation. You know, wanted to get your thoughts as we head towards the postseason about some of the races. You know, a tight one right now in the Metro Division.

How are you feeling about things shaking out there? Do you like the Rangers? This Devils team scores a ton. A lot of very good teams atop the Metro Division. Yeah, absolutely. I think the Metro has just been so competitive this year. And even just the entire Eastern Conference, you think about it compared to the West.

And the Atlantic's obviously been good. But the Metro, you know, you've got Carolina there. You've got, you know, the Devils and Rangers both have such great young players on their squads, and they have been having really breakout seasons. So you wonder where that's going to take them, that kind of youthful exuberance in the postseason. What could that mean for their prospects? And what a great thing for New Jersey, you know, a great comeback story. Having been to the post season since 17, 18.

They've just been working so hard to kind of find their footing again. And now here they are. The real interesting teams now are the Islanders and the Penguins, because you look at those wild card spots in the East and who's going to get it? Florida's, you know, suddenly back in the mix. Can Pittsburgh hold on? So really you're wondering if Pittsburgh can't, for example, if they can't hold on to that second wild card spot

and they end up falling out, what does that mean for a rebuild, retool situation for the Penguins? So that's the fascinating part to me is that you'll get'll get the playoffs and you'll see carolina new york new jersey they're gonna have you would think you know really interesting first rounds but i just want to know what's going on with this pittsburgh team and are they just too old is it just a matter of they need an infusion of youth uh to really get back to being those perennial contenders yeah it's funny it's if you kind of look at a lot of the teams that have had these kind of two half dynasties almost if you want to call them typically what happens in the middle of that is you get bad for

a couple years and you get your eighth overall pick or your ninth overall pick who comes in and the pens just haven't done that they've actually traded away picks they traded away the 15th overall pick for casperi Kapanen at one point in time. So yeah, it would have been interesting to see what could have happened if they would have had that kind of influx of young talent or bet on the right guys. You know, we keep talking about the Devils

and man, this was a team that I was curious about heading into the season. Thought they could make some noise. Never thought this was the year that's coming for them. The question I think a lot of people have with them is just how will they fare in their first taste of playoff hockey you know the rangers are a big heavy team they've been through this before even their kids have been through this before and lafreniere and cackle whereas the devils it's all going to be new and yeah sometimes you can get playing with house money but uh man we

talk about what a what a you know a death trap the atlantic is in terms of the leafs and lightning in boston it's not much easier at the top of the metro there no absolutely not and i think there's advantages on both sides for the devils and for the rangers i mean for the devils because you you don't know what you're getting into you can maybe just play a little more freewheeling. You can just have fun with it. That's what New Jersey has been a lot of this year, is just their kids finding their groove by doing what they do best. And it's not always pretty. It's not always the most well-structured hockey,

but it's not necessarily their bread and butter. A lot of it is, I think, the creativity that the Devils have. And it's brought out the best in Jack Hughes. And Nico Hichier, you look at the year that he's had, and just it feels like a confidence. And then Jesper Brotz the same way. The Tech-Vanacek has really solidified them in net, which was such an issue in years past.

They have confidence across the board, I think, in every position. And that's where, when you lean on that, even if you're going up against a Ranger team that went all the way to the Eastern Conference final last year, somewhat unexpectedly, I think we can probably say, I don't know if anyone had them pegged for that kind of a run, but that's what I think helped the Rangers last year, too, was just that unknown of it all, is that, well, we can't overthink it because we haven't really been here before. So that's the advantage that I think the Devils bring in beyond just their talent

is that you can't overthink something that you haven't necessarily been a part of, and they haven't seemed to overthink a whole lot this year. And, yes, Timo Meier is a great addition, and, of course, you have these really rock-solid veterans on your back end that are going to make your defense tough. But looking at the Rangers, obviously they have great goaltending, too. They added a lot of players in the last couple of years who have been really driving forces for their success.

But as well, you should note about New York, though, they've been through some ups and downs. They're battle-weathered this season as well. They've definitely not had an easy run through the regular season. So I'm looking forward to that matchup only because it's is it the upstart in the devils who the unknown of it all is the advantage or is it the fact that you know new york's a little bit more bristled and that's ultimately what comes through yeah kristin when it's funny when we assume we know something about a team we don't really talk about it a whole

lot and i'm talking about the boston bruins here where it's like, they're good. So we just ignore them this show. We haven't mentioned them today. I don't think for an hour and a half, they may be one of the best regular season teams ever at this point here in Toronto, we're trying to find ways that maybe they might be flawed and eventually they could crack, you know,

a couple of young goalies who haven't been through it. A new coach, Holland Foligno injured right now. Am I just searching desperately do you feel like they're the perfect team like my co-host who's usually here Kipper says you know what it's hard to argue that they're not the perfect team because they have been so good however the the thing about the playoffs and if we're talking about the playoffs because that's really all Boston's you know got on its radar at this point, having broken every record and done all of the things, if you look back even just a year ago to that series that they had against Carolina, and you just think, well, how was opponent that just does something better than you for six days, seven days.

And that's the only position that I could see of any flaw for Boston is that they're going to go into the postseason against a them that ultimately they can't beat four times in a row or four times, sorry, over a seven-game series. And their goaltending has been so good, but at the same time their goaltending is aided by how frequently they've been able to score, how consistent they've been defensively. They have all these weapons in every category. Their power play is good.

Their special teams are good. Everything seems solid, but it's almost the question is just whether that, you know, team is, is it Pittsburgh? Is it Florida? Whomever it is that they end up facing, can they expose a flaw enough times? And over the course of a seven-game series that comes at you so quickly, is that going to be how Boston is broken? And we've seen it before.

Obviously Columbus, we're always going to go back to 2019 and say, how did they figure out the lightning? And it's just if you go in just assuming you've got nothing to lose, it's the only real potential Achilles heel I could see for Boston is just not, you know, not being able to know the team that they're playing as maybe as fully as they would want to. And somehow that exposes something in them, but top to bottom at this point how do you argue

how do you say that anything's not working for a team that just every single night they find a way and even when it looks like they're not going to find a way someone's making a save someone's blocking a shot someone's scoring a goal and it's just been kind of magical the run that they've been on yeah uh seven straight wins and we barely talked about it. Eight and two in their last ten. My best case scenario that I've been able to say is that things have just gone way too well for this team. The second the Allmark goal went in, I said,

hmm, maybe that's it. Maybe just too perfect. I certainly wouldn't be upset if that were to happen to them. I want to switch gears and look at the West with you here. You know, obviously Colorado, I think, is the sleeping giant. I don't even know how sleepy they are. They're 8-2 in their last 10 as well here. You know, it's felt like a wide-open conference all year because of all the injuries that Colorado has had.

Are they still the team to beat for you out there, or is somebody else potentially scarier? Well, I have learned in years past to never bet against the reigning cup champions so i wouldn't bet against them to still be the the beast of the western conference it certainly bodes well for them to be getting healthy and you know i covered colorado for so much of of last spring's run and so i know that they're just a team that handles adversity really well. They're a team that I think is really connected and close-knit. They understand what's coming because they've just been through it. So hitting their stride at the right time obviously lends itself to thinking

they could be a really strong contender again in the West. But I think the team that everybody's sleeping on out there is L.A. I mean, Los Angeles has really had such a strong year. They've been consistent. They've had their issues, obviously, in net early on, but that's been really stabilized. They made some good moves, I thought, at the trade deadline. And they're right there.

You know, they're a heavy team. They've still maintained that identity of a defensive forward group, but they also have exciting scorers. And maybe that's what was lacking for them in the past was just that offensive output that they could create. And I really like LA in that sense. I like the balance that they have in their game. And maybe just a team that because they play in the Pacific around the Oilers and around, you know, some of these other clubs that have more high-scoring talent, you sort of forget that L.A. is right there in that category as well. So I do like them.

Vegas has been good all year, but you just question their health and whether they can, you know, really get back to, you know, feeling like that team we were talking about when they made the cup final in their first year, was that just sort of a fluke or are they actually that good? Can they be that good again? So those are teams that I look at and think that they're really going to be kind of on the cusp of leading the way for the West.

But at the same time, you just don't know because the Western Conference has been so tough to bet on the whole year. And Edmonton, you always want to bet on Edmonton because they have McDavid and they have Dreisaitl. But as the Oilers have shown, it just takes more than that. It takes more than just obviously raw skill and the incredible uh success that they have offensively you have to have the defense and the goal tending to match so

that's always my my question with the with the Oilers is just can they get the defensive um you know support that they get obviously uh or that story that you need obviously to to be successful and support your your offensive prowess so it's I think it's wide open and I think that's exciting for the West as well because that means maybe we see a dark horse emerge maybe that's the conference where we see a team rise up and and really make kind of one of those Cinderella runs. And that could be, I think, something that, you know, really excites people as we get into the postseason. Yeah, in particular, the Central's tight right now. Minnesota's in first at 93 points, Colorado and Dallas both at 92.

So a lot left in the air. But listen, you worked in Toronto. You're aware here in Canada, we pay attention to these Canadian markets. We're just dying for more than two teams to be interesting to have a chance and looking at winnipeg or calgary like one of you guys figure it out they haven't figured it out looks like winnipeg is going to sneak their way into the postseason but what do you make of those two teams winnipeg and calgary and about how their seasons have gone personally you know i think we feel like they've fallen short of what we think they could be given their rosters oh i mean winnipeg just at this point it's like don't

waste this incredible year that connor hellebuck is putting together for you i mean he's going out there every night and putting on a show he's been so good and it just feels like he just deserves better you know than than sneaking into the playoffs. And that just is, I think the Jets had some real momentum going and they sort of, you know, they hit this skid and you see Bonas trying to pull them out of it and tinker and find out really how to push the right buttons. But I just think that, you know, the Jets are a good team

with a tremendous, tremendous goaltender who could very well win the Vesna this year. And you just don't want to see them kind of squander that opportunity that they have. And it's just they're a good team. And you just wonder, is it a mental thing? Is it just that mentality that they have that maybe they can't compete against the Dallasers and the Minnesotas in our conference? Is it the little brother syndrome whatever it is it's they're just it just doesn't need to be there because winnipeg is is i think a good team calgary is a different you know question

mark almost because what did go wrong there how is it that calgary was it just the departure of goudreau and chuck that really changed the dynamic so much that they couldn't get it together enough to be that contender throughout the year? And now we're talking about them on the outside looking in. Is it Sutter? Is he not finding the right combinations? There's a lot I think you could go through on the Calgary front of why maybe their playoff hopes have kind of derailed. But when it comes to Winnipeg, there's just really no reason for it to not, you know,

be as good as it could be for them because they have so many of the right pieces in place. And Josh Morrissey even is a player that has had a great year on the blue line and I think been really strong for them as well. So if I'm Winnipeg, I'm just thinking we've got to do this for Hellebuck. If nothing else, we've got to get into the playoffs and we've got to give him some support and really just show that he's not backstopping a non-playoff team because they should be able to not just get into the playoffs,

but you would think that they could be a real contender in the first round. And that's what I would have said about them a month ago. And, you know, nine, 10 games from now, you'd like to be able to say the same thing. Yeah, we always say a number one center is the hardest thing to find in hockey. And I'm not going to sit here and say it's easy. But the actual hardest thing to find in hockey is a goaltender that you feel 1000 not not good about not a guy who's having a good year but a guy who has proven it and is continuing to have a good year and to squander that away i mean again we're stuck here in leafs land where at times it's been

really good but we've been we're sitting here holding ourselves back from talking joe wall into the playoff conversation and they got hell you buck and they're barely squeaking in you know i just want to dial down on the flames and yeah it's possible there are changes obviously there were a lot last offseason just looking at their record and obviously it's a little simpler than that 15 overtime losses you cut half of those away and win those games you're in the playoffs and it's very tough for a team to have a stat like that. And look, not to say there aren't other problems

and there aren't changes that need to be made, but you could easily talk yourself into, well, we played three on three 20 times this year, whatever the number is, and lost 15 of them. If we just win half of those or a handful more of those, we're probably in the playoffs, nevermind all the other one goal games that they could feel

should have gone their way. Like, it's such a tough thing with Calgary there because you can, from a management perspective or a fan base perspective, you could probably talk yourself into either narrative there. Yeah, I think there's a lot of different, you know, quote-unquote excuses or reasons why Calgary's in the position that it is. I mean, they haven't, you know,

I think there was a stat about their third period comebacks, like they haven't had any of those, and that's why they end up in overtime so much. And there's just little things I think you could nitpick about the Flames and say, well, if this had gone right for them or if that had gone right. But, you know, it comes down to the performance, right? It comes down to how effective were your best players at the most crucial moments. And Jonathan Huberdeau, obviously not a seamless transition for him to a new team.

And you don't know that when you make the trade. You don't know that, you know, players that are coming in are going to fit. And I think Weegar's been great for their back end. Kadri, maybe you hear the rumors about him and Sutter has that been a bit of an issue is that not bringing out the best in your best players it's you know there's just there's a lot of little stat points that I think or a lot of little pressure points for the Flames that you could look to and a lot of change is also tough at once to take on and it wasn't a small overhaul that they went through in the last offseason.

And you hope for the best in those moments, but it's also a long game. And for the Flames, maybe it is a longer, not rebuild, but just reintroduction to how are they going to play with some of these big names that came in that if it wasn't working what they were doing this year, okay, well, how are they going to readjust it? How are they going to become a team that can win in overtime? And why can't they win in overtime?

What's going on there that you do have talent? You have the Lindholms and the Toffolis, and you have guys who can score goals, Nazem Kadri, of course, Huberto, you have the talent. So why is the talent not bringing you the results when it matters the most? And that's where you go back to, is it coaching? Is it goaltending? Jacob Markstrom's struggles I don't think certainly anyone would have seen coming, and it's been a very up-and-down year for him. him and you can't like we're just talking about hellebuck well markstrom's kind

of almost on the opposite end of the scale where he was having such a tremendous season last year and it was what propelled uh calgary to to the success that they had and then in a year so much can change but i just think for the flames they they really they did what they had to then in a year so much can change but I just think for the Flames they they really they did what they had to do in the offseason it wasn't deals necessarily that Brad Treleving wanted to make he did the best he could and if they don't make playoffs this year I'm sure that there will be more changes to come because there has to be this is a Flames team that's got great players in their prime and like the Jets trying to take advantage of Hellebook, the Flames have to take advantage of who they have

and how good they are right now and find the ways to bring out the best in those players. Well, we really appreciate all of your wonderful insight on these Canadian teams. It's hilarious that we called you and said, talk about Canadian teams, and you nailed it. So thank you so much for your time, Kristen. Thanks so much for having me, guys. Anytime.

All right, talk to you soon. That's Kristen Shilton, NHL reporter for ESPN. There you go. Thank you. You know, back in the day, you know, living in the U.S., I watched a lot of that network. I would imagine. Nice to have anyone involved on the hockey side now.

Yeah, just the fact that there are people, let alone wonderful people like Christian and other people we like to get on. Only four more years at $6 million per for Markstrom after this year. Yeah, that's tough. Well, you know, this is the thing with Sutter. And, like, there are people there who are going to be there longer than him. And that's Kadri, and that's Wieger, and that's Huberto, and that's Markstrom.

So you would think he would feel some pressure to ingratiate himself with those guys. I would not think that. He does not. Well, good point. So you would think he would feel some pressure to ingratiate himself with those guys. I would not think that. He does not. Well, also because I've heard him speak. What does he care? You know, like he's just take my money and leave. You don't want me here. I'll be here and coaching the team or I'll take the money and go to the farm.

And that sounds great to him. I want to be clear. I'd rather be coaching in the NHL than sitting on a farm. But for him, I think that's a pretty, pretty good toss up. Codry's ice time in Decembercember he played 1833 in january he played 1753 down to 1751 and in march he's played 1443 last game he played 1234 uh and that was with four shots in a goal um game before he had seven shots in a goal oh he's just starting to come around a little bit he's been slumping pretty hard i'm not going to say he's been playing great or anything but

um yeah pretty clear something up yeah well with him and d rel and they need a they needed david camp there that was what fixed all the leafs overtime woes remember when they couldn't start camp and lilligren and marner it is funny though that they have 15 ot losses and find themselves a handful of points at a playoff i knew the stat about one goal losses i i didn't realize apparently they were all in overtime not actually but pretty much all of them there and that's the thing again having not watched them i don't know like you know maybe it's just an abject disaster but you could really talk yourself into yeah it's a skills contest and we lost a bunch of them yeah they get a ton of shots from outside nothing inside they're a strange team but it is you know going into this year i think we had high hopes for the flames who last year won the division i

believe they did and it's just it goes back to the idea i keep saying like careful what you wish for when you completely nuke your franchise because it didn't go the way you wanted yeah you know the jets maybe about where we thought they were despite a a hot start. This is probably preseason where I would have had them. Yeah, I think the difference is if you would have told Jets people you're going to get the Connor Hellybuck year and we're going to be calling, wrongfully so, but we're going to be calling Josh Morrissey, Josh Norrissey at points in time for this season,

then they would have expected to have been in a top three spot, not a wild card. But on top of those two teams, then Ottawa pushes their chips in. You know, expected them to kind of turn things around. around the canucks i didn't really know what to expect from them after being so hot under what have they done uh they've gone on a tear i think in terms of winning percentage since they're the best yeah whatever the date is i saw you got hired like they're they're on fuego eight and two in the last 10 so wow that's a really good move guys i mean great is there a local is there a local kid who's a canucks fan who might go high in the Don Fuego. Eight and two in their last ten. Wow. That was a really good move, guys. Really great.

Is there a local kid who's a Canucks fan who might go high in the draft this year? I heard there is. Barney, we said this a hundred times. We did. Like, this is a dumb move. They're going to get decent. They have decent players. They're going to be better coached.

Apparently, they're running Quinn Hughes into the ground. Like, he's playing. Well, not in the ground. But he's up for three or four minutes per average from under boudreaux to talk it now former friend of the show uh rick talkett who we used to be on all the time we missed that we missed talks i know god and it was just i knew he was gonna get hired because the text backs dried out that's that honestly just mckee called that like we were like all right let's get talking next week they're gonna send him a note send him a note. Send him a note. No text back.

We went, uh-oh. I called him multiple times, and he just, like, always got back to me. Like, it would maybe take a little bit, but he always got back. Super courteous. Loved doing the show. And I was like, well, I think we may have lost him, boys. You know what's crazy? He is, like, he's there now.

The Canucks are 8-2 in their last 10. Demko is looking like Thatcher Demko again. Amazing. Quinn Hughes is getting Norris Trophy buzz. Pedersen's having a career year statistically. Kuzmenko is an absolute. is looking like thatcher demko again quinn hughes is getting norris trophy buzz uh petterson's having a career year statistically uh kuzmenko is an absolute star for them broke a record that pavel beret held that's all you need to know for goals scored by i think a first year player yeah not a rookie miller is humming it's like i'm not saying that boudreaux did a terrible job but

like things were they they have players. When you looked at the bottom of the standings and you're like, oh, I don't know about this team, that team, whatever. I was like, the Canucks have players. So frustrating spot for them. You would have liked their failure to at least have result.

They can still get a lottery ball. It could happen, but. Probably not. You mentioned. That would be great karma. Play well and get the bounce. I would love that. That would be.

I'm not. Andy's not in the bounce. I would love that. Oh, that would be. I'm not. Andy's not in the East. Have you guys. Right. Watching the Flames is one of the. It's a chore. Chore. That's the best word I've ever heard for that.

They are an absolute chore. Like, they just feel like they're always, like, missing point blank chances. They can't get a save. Looks like all the players hate each other. Like, the only way you get over 18. I haven't seen get over like three straight passes connect the only way they you know get a guy to play more than 18 minutes as we played on the 2012 kings like there's just no it's like it's gotta just suck playing for sutter no like

you know when you're good when you're good it's one thing it's like you know you're listening to the message and you're running hot last year and it's like oh he's saying all the funny things he's talking about the farm and you know then you start sucking and he's just like he's talking a lot about the farm yeah he may be he may be throwing some hay bales around pretty soon yeah gotta build those pipes back up like i mean because if they miss the playoffs i would imagine that his seat is going to be rather warm i just you know one of those things where ownership may not love paying a guy millions i was just reading i was just reading a thing on coaches salaries and it's just they've ballooned in a big way and in the last couple years and i don't a lot harder to fire a guy well and the idea is that if you're calgary just given everything we outlined there

there are pieces you're not going to go out we'll get some project coach in here to figure it out no you're going to go get a real coach and so yeah and it's again it's a hockey market like this isn't a guy you can just plop in he has to talk to one reporter a day i know sutter treats it like that sometimes but he's daryl sutter he's allowed to can i give a hot take on here that i haven't planned on giving here while we're doing the take show today absolutely edmonton and calgary are vastly different hockey markets okay i don't know this so i'm i'm very curious to i don't know it either i'm this is my experience from twitter love it okay my experience from social media and the response i get to things i say about the team okay if i am uh slanderous towards the

calgary flames i get people going yeah yeah totally we. And if I suggest the Oilers are less than the best team on earth ever, I get DMs. I get a mean, like, these people are paying attention in Edmonton. Oh, they are. They very much are. That makes a lot of sense. I think expectations with McDavid probably change things. It's that.

And then it's pressure with that. It's you are, you know, as a Kelowna guy famously, a Toronto guy saying that about the Oilers. I think that's part and parcel of that too. You have an Oiler stat that I think is great. Yeah, so Dreisaitl, five goals away from 50. I don't know if you heard, Conor McDavid has already eclipsed that marker. He scored 10 more actually.

He's got 139 points right now. That's absurd. Every time I pull up the NHL stats page it just it feels like i'm looking at a wrong number but it's true yeah if he gets it and that's not it's not a guarantee uh there's two or three guys sitting on 45 goals right now and not all of them are going to get there but joey saddle feels like he has pretty good chance yeah be the first set of teammates to do so since the 95 96 pens yogs and mario that wow 27 years since it's happened. It feels, I did the classic thing where I'm like, Oh,

that was what? 15 years. No, it's not 2010. It is 2023. It would be shocking if there wasn't a year where McDavid and dry settle both scored 50. Yeah. Like if you look back at their careers,

so I would bet a lot of money on him finding a way there this year. Oilers, the only team that have ever had three teammates do it and they've done it twice. Oilers. Yeah. Okay. So Anderson, Curry, G they've done it twice. Oilers, yeah, okay. Anderson, Curry, Gretzky. Yeah, not shocked by that. Nope. Go ahead.

We're doing fun stats, and I got a fun stat too. Three players in NHL history have gone from one team to another team and had 100 points in their last season with the old team and their first season with the new team. So back-to-back 100-point seasons, two different teams. Wayne Gretzky went from the Oilers to the Kings. People at home are trying to think of the next two. You ain't going to get it.

You might get one. You won't because I didn't. The one you may get, Jimmy Carson. Carson went from the Oilers to the Kings, sorry, Kings to the Oilers. And the other one is Mike Rogers, who does not own our company. Does not even sound like a real guy.

No, is a real person. My point for telling you this is Matthew Kachuk, three points away from joining that illustrious group sitting on 97 points for the Florida Panthers. Boy, just a bunch of big names in that group. Mike Rogers, Jimmy Carson. It's Wayne Gretzky and Matthew Kachuk. It's a pretty cool thing. I was going to say, he gets to be the second

best guy on that list, I think, is what that means. Yeah, Carson shot him in that parade, but you're right. Kachuk is definitely a... Let me tell you something. A lot of guys were shooting it in the net back then. That's so true. There was a lot of net available back then. You know, I love my father, but I'm not sure he

raised the puck in any of the goals I've seen go in any of the highlights. It's just the way the times were. The goaltending was different. So do you guys have any belief that McDavid's going to get 70? None, personally. And by the way. Because that's the front page on NHL.com right now is a piece by our boy, Mike Zeisberger. Yeah.

Zeis. Zeis. He was out there covering it this weekend. So McDavid can do anything he wants. So if this is like a thing he's decided he needs to do, maybe he will. I think he can maybe just score 10 in a game if he wanted to. You know, it's probably he'll get a hat trick tonight

and all of a sudden it'll be like, okay, now it's happening. Plays the Yotes tonight. Oh, okay. On cue. I said none. I'm going to walk back my none then. I feel like the Oilers kind of know where they're slotted in in the playoffs.

I don't feel like there's a whole ton of incentive to push the hammer down. Here's the problem with that. Yes. Let me just give you their schedule. That you can play for just points. Okay, give me their schedule. So they got the Coyotes. They're Patrick Central.

Easily possible. Then it's just a bunch of teams who all would want to play well against the Oilers because there's a very real chance they could play them in the playoffs you got the golden knights you got the kings okay ducks whatever then you got the kings again and so you got and then you have the avalanche also at the end of the season now you have a couple games against the sharks and a couple against the ducks so basically he's playing teams that have a real impetus to shut him down because you don't want him feeling good rolling into the playoffs and a bunch of teams whose season is already over so he could yes in those five games against Sharks and Ducks and Yotes, he could get 10 for sure.

So 60 and 73. So his pace is below that. Nine games left to get 10 goals. But boy, it's Connor McDavid. What would you give for him to be sitting on 67 or 68 heading into that last game against the Sharks? I would love to see it. You know what? I'd love that. because that's all the team would do and connor mcdavid getting to see do you want him switched on in that mode right before playoffs like you know that guy and he's

remember when he scored 50 yeah they lose to the the the bruins are the best team ever to have existed apparently and they're like connor 50 and he was like we lost yeah swallow the mic i hate you yeah you know like so mr grump yeah tough to imagine him like getting fired up to chase a personal but can you imagine like you put him in that game 67 and you want him to get to 70 and he gets hurt or something oh yeah oh god he's meets a meaningless game and it's like do you want that number it's like oh boy that's you know what might sit himself at that blame us they'd be like those guys in toronto ginned up the chase for 70 and look at what they did to our sweet boy 1940

oilers gotta be careful with the kings for sure like that's two people came on today and unprompted volunteered the kings as a sneaky good we were talking with the kings last last week a little bit they them getting corpus allo was a big that's a big change when your goalie is not like they traded away a legend cruelly to uh you know they maybe they know what they are you know what that's also we talked a couple times about good sports karma i don't is that good or bad sports karma to make the right decision to jettison franchise legend? Very good question. I don't know.

I could be completely talked into either side of that. That's great. You do the thing you need to do to win. Yeah. You kill your beloved Jonathan quick, but it's like, he also killed your beloved Jonathan quick. The guy won you a couple of mugs right before a playoff chase. I don't know.

I could be talked into either side of sports karma there. Obviously hockey wise, this is a thousand percent correct thing. is go ahead he's truly dreadful with the kings yes he was awful yeah he was he was and now the golden knights are banking on him so this this actually brings me to a conversation i had with uh amber last night david amber was like bedard is playing for this regina pats team right now who is not going to win the memorial cup like not a great team yeah and it's like they could have traded him so apparently had he yeah he had like a no trade or whatever but like you know in theory you ask the guy whatever you could have traded him for six thousand firsts or whatever you would get for a guy like bedard yeah my kid would be going but

like yeah but like there is real value in having the history of Conor Bedard, right? Totally. You're the, you're the Pats. You're the only place he was, his jerseys in the rafters. You know, he talks about you after his career. So like, what's more valuable? The short term, make the Regina Pats better. Yeah.

You know, with all these picks and whatever, or getting to have the history of Bedard as your franchise. The, the GM got asked about this this like before the whl's trade deadline and he got livid about the question of connor it wants to be here and he's not waving his no move and he doesn't want to but i'm with you i think that look it's junior hockey okay the whole point of it is it's cyclical you get your chances you're never you could trade conor bedard for every player that will be drafted into the whl and there is a real possibility that you will never get one as good as him now i'll add them all up i get it this is what it's about though is having a guy to hold your franchise tentpole on and would you love a

mem cup of course of course you would yeah but you get conor bedard for sure all that is is magic beans selling tickets 143 points in 57 games this year 71 goals 72 assists 360 shots 72 is a good 360 shots 360 shots very good in 57 games so he's averaging about seven shots a game it's insane five shorties well-rounded player killing penalties skip this guy out there wow seven shots well from all the people i talked to in Arizona this weekend, I don't think there's a burning desire for hockey there. No. I told you. I talked to some of the locals.

They're like, yeah, we do not care. No. I told you. I lived by a gas station near me, and when I would go pick up a 12-pack of Diet Coke, which I was mixing my drinks with, I would get tickets to the Coyotes games that I would not use. Go unused. But, yeah. Hey, I wanted to give a quick shout-out to the Toronto Sixotes games that I would not use. Go unused.

But yeah. Hey, I wanted to give a quick shout out to the Toronto Six on the Isabel Cup yesterday. Yeah. There you go. OT win, right? Yeah. OT win. They came back in the third period.

The president of the team, Sammy Jo Small. I play hockey with her on Sunday nights at Renny Park. Does she use a goalie stick to play forward? No, she's just so solid defensively. That's the right spots in your outdoor pick up space she's really in the right spots all the time and I just wanted to give a big shout out to her

she's a wonderful woman and she's done a lot of good work with them and they won the cup so good on them so great call that's a worthwhile one shout out to your boy who is getting married oh Keegan Keegan's not in good shape right now. I can tell you that right now.

He's making it through the bachelor party. He could be right here, and we'd be shouting him out, and he wouldn't know is what I'm gathering here. Yeah, he is not in good shape. The whole crew is not in good shape. Listen, we're all mid-30s. Yeah.

Like, I'm acting like I'm in my early 20s out there. It's just not going to work. I threw up on a cactus after my bachelor party. Sounds about right. Anyways, that's what I wanted to give a shout-out on a cactus after my bachelor party. Sounds about right. So anyways, that's what I wanted to give a shout out for. So there you go, boys. All right. I'll give a shout out to you two guys.

Thanks for it. Well, you just shut up. I would rescind my shout out to you. But Bourne, thank you for being such a wonderful host all these days. You know, thanks for joining us. Any thoughts? So I don't know if you'll get to host again pre playoffs. Yes.

So do you do do you genuinely believe this year because you know by the way i want to say he gets called super fan sam yeah and you guys have conversations where he has to say dial it back a little gunner come on it's just you love the maple leaves and their chances you believe this year i do it's just as much about tampa as it is about the leafs but i really do uh so i'll say it now in case i don't get a chance to and i'll cut all your grass before you have to wait to make your predictions leafs and six i'm calling it right now months away not even gonna see seven oh if it's seven they're losing leafs and six to be clear is leafs and six or tampa and seven are the two options for you 100 all right wow gutter i love Wow. Got her. I love that. Yeah. Love that prediction.

Thank you for being with us. We appreciate it. Always fun. Thanks Connor. Good having you today. Thanks sis. Sammy. We'll see you tomorrow and everyone else will be back with Nick Kiprios

tomorrow on real Kipper and born.