Real Kyper & Bourne - Bunting Out of Strikes

Episode Date: April 26, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee kick off the show by discussing if scratching Michael Bunting for Game 5 was the right call. Is Bunting a liability to the team, does he deserve to be back onto the ice for Game 5, and does Auston Matthews want the winger back on his line? They are joined by former NHL goalie and TNT hockey analyst, Darren Pang (21:11). He discusses his experience in between the benches of what went down between Brayden Point and Morgan Rielly, Leafs expectations of closing out Game 5 tomorrow night. Later, analyst for the New York Rangers on MSG Steve Valiquette (46:34) discusses how defence affects goaltenders, Andrei Vasilevskiy fighting through the Leafs' screens in Game 4. Jason Bukala (1:06:25) stops by to look at some of the other NHL playoff matchups. Finally, Kyper, Justin and Sam discuss the come-up of Matthew Knies before Game 6, while also taking a quick look at an update of the playoff standings. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Might be an off day for the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Tampa Bay Lightning, but Sammy McKee is on his game. We'll see. You know how I know that? No. I'm looking at the lineup. Yeah.

And it says Real Kipper and Born show season two blah blah blah blah blah 3 p.m real kipper and born live on and then a big scratch out you know what he forgot and then he realized it and walked over to your desk and was like i'm scratching that out i don't need to hear about it today no way he fixed it i thought that was a legit like well before playing note just a thick sharpie so he's not on the ball then because we are not on sports at 590 the fan we know that the jays are wrapping up on their uh series against chicago what's it called again? A go away game. Getaway day. Oh,

getaway day. What did I say? Go away. It sounds much harsher. It's like a breakup. I'm close. Jay's role. No,

four, nothing right now. Kikuchi dealing in his start, looking like a different pitcher. Regardless of this scratch out, Sammy did it. Sammy did get it right. That we're on our YouTube channel again,

sports net. Now iTunes, Spotify. out uh sammy did it sammy did get it right that we're on our youtube channel again sportsnet now itunes spotify and we got a little over 24 hours to go how are we on this extra day off because during the regular season we know that sometimes the leafs went from a saturday to a thursday and we're like oh my god what are we going to talk about for three days? Are we feeling that at all today, Sammy? I just want to get this game over with. We got to enjoy it. Relish it. Don't wish it away.

This is a fun time. I know, but it's just a long time to wait for such a massive game. I'm jealous of every other game that gets to go again tonight. I just, I feel like it should be tonight. I hate it. The Leafs are going to go long here, right? They started on the second day. There's an extra day off.

Really four games in, Sammy. If this thing goes seven, you ain't going to make it. They have to close out tomorrow night. And the next series would probably start, no joke, two days later. Because they're going to be like, right? They start on the second day. On a Saturday, you think? If Boston closes out tonight, you think round two would start earlier?

Oh, no, no, no, no, no. I'm saying if the series goes long. Like if the Leafs were to go seven games, they would start two days later. It goes Saturday, Monday for game six. So point being, you want to wrap this up before you're the hyper-unrested team against arrested Bruins. Yeah, well, the Bruins haven't clinched anything yet either.

That's a good point. Technically, no. You're right. Really good point. Thank you. All right. We can pick up a little bit, I think, off the top with the Michael Bunting conversation.

Because when you first said it yesterday, I just thought it would have been a foregone conclusion that he would have to wait for his turn to get back into the lineup. There would have to be minor setback, which would mean a loss in game five for me. Yeah. But there are a lot of people out there that I think went on your side a little bit here, much more than I actually thought that he should be back in the lineup. Yeah. You know,

he scored 23 times. Like that's a, that's a hockey player, no doubt about it. But I have done some soul searching. I have considered your arguments as I always do. And it just makes the most sense to, to leave them out to me. I think you're, I think you guys got it right. It's not so much punishment for bunting. It's how do you punish the other guys who have done exactly what's asked of them and had success.

One thing I want to push back against with people too, is it, you know, I don't know if you're hearing this, but people being like, they stole two in Tampa, they stole a couple. They didn't steal game four.

Tampa was no good for half the game. They got outplayed in the third period. They played pretty well in game four, at least as well as better. Yeah. Better. I saw signs in game four that that uh supports that a lot more in game three oh for sure they stole game but no doubt uh far and away uh a game that they

shouldn't be too proud of no i mean the comeback yes Be proud of being resilient. Never give up. In three or four? Four. In four? Yeah, in four. I mean, if you're Tampa Bay, you just get rolled over. I thought Toronto was pretty good in the second and the whole third period. The one thing that I think I wish more people seemed to understand is that the other team gets to play two. And the other team's pretty good.

And they're going to have moments where it goes well for them and they execute okay, and you just kind of have to hold the fort. That's playoff hockey. You're playing the best teams left, right? So you're not going to go, it's not going to be game two in playoffs very often. So I just wanted to push back on the idea that the Leafs, you know, lucked into two wins in Tampa Bay.

In about 45 minutes, we're going to welcome in Steve Vallecat, analyst for the New York Rangers on MSG. I love talking to this guy. There's so many places that this guy can go on a conversation. We got a guest list today. A lot of our fans, our listeners out there, always impressed when Valli comes on the Real Kipper in Bourne Show.

So we can't wait for that. And, wow, get his thoughts on the Rangers blowing two at home against New Jersey. So we'll find out where he sees that series sitting. Jason Bukala, former NHL scout, another guy. Love the conversations there. We've gone in great detail on the anticipation of Matthew Nyes. And now that he's seen it live and in color like the rest of us,

we'll get his thoughts on how Nyes continues to impress. And Darren Pang. Who was between the benches for Leafs and Lightning, both games in Tampa. He's heard it all, guys. He's seen it all and heard it all. He heard what Maroon had to say to old Shin, bench to bench. We got Panger in about 15 minutes, so it's a jam-packed show.

Everything to set you up for tomorrow night. Just to follow up on the bunting conversation that we first started, let's start our first Kippers Clipper with sheldon keith on what seems to be the decision of leaving him out obviously you know his situation opened the door for someone like matthew nines to come in and he did a terrific job for us and and the chemistry the rest of the group just makes it uh you know it's not an easy decision because Bunce has played really good hockey for us and has been an important guy for our team. But really the message was that he will get back in.

It's just not going to be tomorrow. Okay. Thoughts? You know, I think it's something that I really believe, and I forget who it was that we had on this show maybe simmer someone like that but the idea that like you as a team are trying to achieve a collective goal and sometimes you don't like how you're being used but you play your part and wait for your chance again that's what they're asking bunting to do here you know he knows he has a

contract coming this summer somewhere and it's in his best interest to sit it out if they ask him to and play his best when he's back in. I don't think you have to worry about losing a guy or anything like that. What's a bigger risk, playing him or not playing him, for Keefe's perception? I would say playing him would be a bigger risk because you're changing a winning formula. Okay.

Kipper. I'm with J J B, you know, and just to, just to go deeper here is on the surface. You can sit there and go, okay,

Aston Reese out or yarn crock out. Yeah. Those are his only choices choices no lafferty for you no as an option no no no okay no uh too much pace too much pace and he does have the ability to to hit harder yeah he's. And he'll look you in the eye after those exchanges. One of those guys. You have to now think about if Bunting comes in, where would he play? How would he play? Do you give him now Austin Matthews and Mitch Marner? Is that the logical choice?

Or do you stick him on the bottom two lines and spot duty him? And I really believe that you need a, for any player to succeed, you need to be, you need to have a coach that puts you in the best situation to be successful. I'm not sure there

there's one that exists right now yeah my thoughts on bunting are like he if you look at some of the sport logic stats and how he plays he has no involvement in the d zone he doesn't block passes break up lanes block shots he doesn't break it out like he is in the o zone he gets touches he makes smart plays he's offensive but he doesn't help you in like he is in the ozone he gets touches he makes smart plays he's offensive but he doesn't help you in the d zone that fourth line right now they go over the boards in the d zone and they get the team going the other way that's their whole gig so he doesn't fit in that it's not a puzzle piece that fits on the fourth line and yeah i think things are working pretty well in the top six right now uh rolling out a look of Nyes Tavares Marner.

Woo! For a second line right now. So, yes, tougher to find your way in when they're liking Nyes this much. Just one more thought. And, again, this is just me based on my experience of being in rooms with stars, horses, franchise-type players. I think it's so simple. And again, this is just my opinion.

Matthews doesn't want Bunting. It's that simple. If Austin wanted Michael Bunting, Michael Bunting would be playing in game five. Right now, it's Yarncroft. Yarncroft's simple. He can shoot it if you give him a chance. He's a dog on a bone with a puck out there.

And he's not going to be starting to scrum every shift. And he's going to be on the D side of the puck. I think there's a, as much as the lineup looks great for the Leafs, there's probably a big part of Keefe that doesn't want to up tampa either in terms of the the gritty side of the game like there's no way that they're not going to be in his grill because they know how he acts and the churn acting right like there's going to be not retribution it's the playoffs guys aren't going to be chasing him around the whole night but they're not going to not say stuff to him every chance they get right like i think a fresh start if they happen to get past tampa would probably be a better spot for bunting as opposed to this series let's listen to what sheldon keith uh sorry let's listen

to michael bunting let's listen to what bunting had to say about uh getting back in uh i don't i feel like that's just between keiferfer and I and listen I want to play I want to be in the lineup and that's what I intend to do in the future here I want to be impactful I want to play my game and do things that has helped our team make the playoffs so that's what I plan on doing

and there's a little adversity for me here but you know what I've gone through adversity my whole life and I made it here so this is just little adversity for me here, but you know what? I've gone through adversity my whole life and I made it here. So this is just another day for me. Last week, I wrote an article for the Toronto Star. It's still, you can find it if you want to go revisit it. But, you know, the lasting message was as ugly as an incident that was.

Didn't hurt them. Not in the least no it's the trade-off was a three-game suspension for a depth defenseman that the tampa bay lightning were already short of and out of the series yeah like his his contribution is is is pretty prevalent right now. Yeah. And, you know, people, you may look at the D pairs and Chernak was on their third pair. He was only on their third pair to salvage it. Like he plays with headman when they have a lot of good players.

But right now they're like they need one of their three good D men on each pair to salvage each pair. And they haven't had that steadying force. And it has been a significant loss. Oh, I wrote an article today, a opportunity analysis. It's NHL edge IQ powered by AWS.

It's on sports net.ca. It's on Vasilevsky and how square he's been to all these shots, but how the D in front of them just can't clear bodies out of the way traffic, whatever. We actually saw a quote from Vasilevsky. I don't know if it's real or not, but someone asked him about how we can see around traffic better. Yeah, that one's real.

Is it real? Yeah. He said, get some effing x-ray glasses, which speaks to the situation he's been in this series and leaves and put them in. Read what I had to write. Sportsnet.ca just on that comment again different rules for different players and basilevsky certainly put himself in a position where you know how he said it yeah he may have been laughing while he said it might have been laughing but whether or not it was tongue in cheek or serious or not,

that's a message right to your defense. Help. Help. Not help. Get effing better. Yeah. Clear it out. Those are going in because you guys are not doing your job.

You know what? I can't help, but think if the, if that's going to be an emphasis for them, I think they're at higher risk of taking penalties, right? Cross checks, get guys out of there and trying to do things.

Maybe they do need old Buncey boy in there, flopping around, drawing penalties in front of the net, have them chasing. You probably draw three penalties next game. He can't draw penalties. They don't call penalties. Those days are over.

I don't call penalties on him. One, one more on on on bunting and i'll let you go jb first has he cost himself some money on his next deal no doubt in my mind and actually i think it's quite a bit you know i think he at one point you could have made a case and maybe you did make a case that he might be close to a five million dollar player well listen the numbers uh there's no question that the numbers support uh ballpark 4.5 to 5 million so you know does this bring him the you know he struggled at times this year towards in the back half playing down the Leafs line up a bit this happens and they don't put him right back in you know could you see him being a three and a half million dollar guy based on you know people going they don't put him right back in, could you see him being a $3.5 million guy? Based on people going, I don't know if he trusts this guy.

I don't know if he makes good decisions. I don't know if the refs believe him anymore. Some of that ref stuff hurts him too, right? If you're trading for a penalty drawer, but he's not drawing as many penalties. Yeah, to me, I think on the surface, there's an argument to be said that it has cost him but i hope not because i like the guy don't really know how desperate another team would be to add

a guy like that yeah there's clearly now a risk reward even if we get past an AAV which could be as high as 4.5 could drop to your point to 3.5 where probably it gets trickier since his incident is

term how many years do you want to give him sure and he's 112 points over the last two years yeah which is incredibly impressive yeah and that cannot be lost this guy makes plays yeah and he's got uh a good feel for around the net and as much as you want to credit at times matth Matthews or Marner or playing on a top line, you still got to be there and get there. For sure.

And you know what? They have to want you there. You have to make enough plays for them to like you. But also, that yappy stuff that he does, some people like it. And it only takes one team. It takes one GM to be like, we need some of that. He just hasn't grasped the art of it yet. And I don't know, you know, there might be the ability.

I bet you the comfort of a contract would help him. Or just a different voice or a different teacher. And, you know, I know Sheldon's trying, but it hasn't worked. And you just can't shrug it off and say, you know, it's up to him. It's Sheldon's job, like a parent's job, is to find a way to reach a kid. And Sheldon just hasn't been able to do that yet. Maybe it's a different voice. Maybe it's different teammates.

I don't know. Maybe it's just maturity. Yeah, and also, this is the first incident like this, right? But is there the thought that, you know, for you to say, okay, the AAV is three or three and a half. Is it the least then? It would have come with the thought that, okay, you want to keep my AAV down,

then you're going to have to go five, six, or seven years. And I just don't know if the Leafs would revisit that now going, okay, listen, you got yourself out of the lineup. You couldn't play yourself back in when your suspension was up. And we ain't giving you six years. Right. Yeah, well, we'll see how this goes. We're not exactly sure on term

you know if the leaf said we'll give you 3.8 times four years you know so i mean you okay with that could that get him no i like i've said even term to guys like him is not necessary you're not driving to the airport are you this guy like there's a number for everything what's the number here airport you want him for two i i just don't i don't i've never liked him as a player really i just the act has worn thin incredibly fast with me and i just i hate that my only concern with michael bunting is that i thought on a contending stanley cup team he's a third line winger and i think that's we know we know that's the weakest side he's taken full advantages as he as he has to put up the points and get the minutes and play with the stars but when push came to shove you you can't walk him back into that position.

And that says something. Yeah. It doesn't say nothing. I agree. And you can't put him on a third or fourth line because he hasn't played that role. It would be new to him to put him back in the lineup and say, okay, you're going to start on the fourth line. He doesn't know how to play a fourth line anymore than Jason Spezza did.

Sure. God forbid the Leafs get past Tampa. They win on Thursday, tomorrow night. Would you immediately go back to him in game one? Or would he still have a tough time getting in? Listen, can we watch game five first? I'm just asking where you think their level's at. I do think it depends if anyone deserves to come out.

I don't think they're... They shouldn't go there. They should see what happens Thursday night. Who's responding? Who showed up? Another strong game from Aston Reese? He ain't coming out. Matthews is happy with Jarnkrok

creating what he needs to do his magic. He ain't coming out. It's actually less about bunting and more about the rest of the guys. Like who do you not want to play of this group? Always about the guys. Yeah. When you're hurt, be it a superstar or a fourth line plugger.

When you're out, you're out. You're gone. You don't matter anymore because you can't influence what I need right now in the here and now. And until Bunting's back in the lineup, he's on the outside

looking in. Let's see what happens game five. All right, we got Panger coming on. Give him a call as we speak. Anywhere else you want to go before we get better? We have so much stuff. We did bunting for the full 20. Whoops. Oh my god. This guy, listen.

I can only equate it to maybe mid-70s, early 80s, when people try to book Frank Sinatra. It's hard. Pang Sinatra. Let's welcome in Darren Frank Pang. Well, that's the Rat Pack.

Yes. Listen. That is a fascinating era i'm just fascinating era that rat pack i'm just so happy you're standing still long enough for us to talk because you've been a busy guy yeah but yeah you know what i have been busy um uh i always i always know that when you call me and i don't answer, you send a text and it says, golfing? No, no, what hole? Yeah, I was going to say, it should say, where are you golfing?

Yes. Question mark. And so, yeah, and then, you know, things go on and you've got the game day. And sometimes it's, I'm not making an excuse or anything, but sometimes on game days or game nights, it's dependent on the producer and depending on the time of the game, there's a lot of little production things that go on with our TNT broadcast, whether we're meeting with coaches and what time and whatever.

So I hate to make a commitment and then not be able to do it. So sorry about that, boys. But I'm glad that I got an off day here. I'm in Toronto, and I'm actually watching the game back right now and getting some work done for game five. You know, all kidding aside, as a broadcaster, and I've gone through it with the long stretches at Sportsnet, it is a taxing two months, and you don't necessarily have to be on the ice

taking hits every other night to feel it. As a broadcaster, too, I know you love golf, but sometimes, much like players this time of year, it's nice to shut down and just not think of anything and get the juices going again. Is that what golf does for you? Absolutely, 100%. There's no doubt about that.

You know, the first, when I knew I was doing the games three and four in Tampa Bay, we had an off day on Sunday. And TNT asked me if I wanted to do game four, if I could do game four in Minnesota. I did game three on Thursday night or Friday night. And then I traveled the day of on Saturday, and I got to Tampa Bay for that. And they asked, can I go back to Minnesota? And I said, you know, Brian Englund is a longtime friend of mine.

And he really worked hard to get us out to a country club when it's the men's morning and guests aren't allowed to play. And with all his hard work, there's no way I'm going to Minnesota to do that game. I'm staying right here in Tampa Bay. I needed to decompress a little bit. But that too, you know what, Kipper, you are right, because what happens is you end up like tonight is an off night, but what am I going to do? What are you going to do?

I'm going to watch the games. I'm going to dive in and watch the games, and then tomorrow I'm going to go to the rink and we're going to talk to coaches. We're going to dive in and we're going to get ready the best we can for game number five. It could be a clinching game. And so it's hard to kind of shut it off.

And you know me, Kipper, and Borny, you haven't been out with me at all, but, you know, I do enjoy social life. I like going out and setting up dinners and going out and then having a couple of glasses of wine and then talking hockey with people or whatever, and then start it over again the next day. But there is a time to just say, okay, let's just shut her down here for a little bit. It's hard to do. It's really hard to do, especially this time of year.

This is what we do for a living. This is why we love the game, and we've been paid a lot of money to be in this game. What's wrong with giving it what we've got so that when we get ready for a game, that we're well prepared for the game. I'm sorry, you're getting paid a lot of money for this? Where do we sign up for that? Well, you know, some of that money

that you got paid from Sportsnet when that deal went in there, I'm still trying to catch. I spent it already. I'm still trying to catch up. I spent it already. I'm still trying to catch up to that. Well, yeah, you got that great range in your basement. You had to dig out another 18 feet. That's where all the money went, buddy. Well, I know that. I may have missed the media money boat,

but at least houses were $1.5 million the second I became of age. This is great, guys. I'm glad you guys are having a good laugh at this all um banger you uh you had the luxury of being between the benches there tampa bay toronto what a cool experience um there was the big moment i think it's game three right the point and riley went into the board so right point took the worst of it and everyone's jawing bench to bench. What was the tension, the animosity, the, you know, the energy like between the lightning and the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yeah. Spill the beans. What was sad? Yeah, it was good. Actually it was, it was good, but what, what was said,

well, the Tanner, you know, I mean, he was, he was just spitting out marbles there. I couldn't understand a lot of stuff he said. But, yeah, but Tanner was going to tell Matthew Nyes what the NHL was all about and that this isn't college hockey and that you're going to get it and you're going to get it and you're going to get it. And, you know, and basically, you know, Corey Perry, I love Corey to death. And he's just a fun guy to be around on the bench, because you know, you know that he's got his, his thing that he does, and he had his eyes wide open, and he was yelling at that bench, and I, at one point, I looked over to Noel Achari,

who had his kind of head over the boards, too, looking at him, and looking around, and Matthew Nyes, by this time, was kind of, yeah, whatever, he, honest to God, Matthew Nyes showed a great deal of composure, didn't get rattled whatsoever with all the verbal assaults that he got between several players of the Tampa Bay Lightning heading towards Matthew Nye. And he was just, he was unfazed, which I was very impressed by. And Noel Achari at one point is like, is he yelling at me? Like, what did I do? And then, you know, I mean, because, you know, I mean,

Corey Perry got those eyes. He's just yelling at whoever he can yell at. And he's going to, you know, he mean, because, you know, I mean, Corey Perry got those eyes. He's just yelling at whoever he can yell at. And he's going to, you know, he'll get them the next shift and they'll show them and, you know, the whole thing, what we would always do. And then big Luke Shen stepped in and he just kind of put his elbow, but what, a foot and a half from me, put his elbow, as if he was going to have a coffee.

I love Luke Shen. Love him to death. The guy's like the hot stove king of the National Hockey League. He's got his coffee everywhere he goes. He doesn't have the AirPods in, and he doesn't have the iPad going. He's got the coffee going. He crosses his legs. He just wants to talk about hockey and life.

And he kind of settles in there, and he says, Tanner, are we going to do this again? You know, we fought the last game. Are we going to do this again? And he just kind of sat down there like a big grandpa was sitting in, in between the big skirmish between the two. I love that. You know, I did.

I enjoyed that a lot. And, and I'll tell you something about Luke's hand. That's really, you guys know him and seen him around for a long time, but these are the little things that, that I'll give to this award-winning broadcast that you guys bring to the people every day.

But during the warmup, he knew that I was out with while Braden's in St. Louis and Alexander Steen came into town. And so I took them out golfing and I knew I was going to head out on the road and do a Minnesota Tampa Bay, Tampa Bay. So, so we had a good day of golf. We went to OB Clark's famous place. So we kind of had, we were in one. And it was great luke so luke shen in the warm-up of game three leans over to me much like he just did during

the skirmish going on and looks at me goes heard you got in one and i i said i said oh geez what a great day that was a lot of fun he goes yeah it's good good work the boys were telling me I didn't skate away. And then, you know, Pat Maroon comes in on the other side and, and he says, Hey, I heard stank is Steiner's name. They call him stank. And he says, I heard you were out with stank. How'd that go? I'm like, really good. Big guy. Great night. And that's it. Nobody, I say to people now, nobody ever wants to talk hockey with me anymore.

They just want to talk about golf and, you know, dinner and red wine the night before. So it's quite fascinating. People probably think that it's always intense and that someone's always, oh, my goodness, they've got the angry hockey. No, that's not the case whatsoever. The guys that are in this game for a long time, I just said, Corey Perry, Pat Maroon, Luke Shen,

they've got the calmness to deal with people like they're people, and I really admire that, and I appreciate that in the game, the older I get, the more I appreciate guys like that in our game. We're talking to Darren paying former NHL goalie hockey analyst for TNT and now covering the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Tampa Bay lightning. So in saying that, what did you make of Maroon giving Ryan O'Reilly in this series,

a little stick in the glove. And does it say more about Ryan O'Reilly, who does not break at all at that point? Like we're talking about good buddies here, right? He does not break out of game face character, and he doesn't give them one inch. I thought that was fantastic. Did we lose you? You lost me, but I thought that was fantastic.

I'll tell you that. I watched again, you know, not just that clip, but I watched again after a commercial break, if Pat Maroon is on the ice and Ryan O'Reilly's on the ice, Pat skates into him, stops slowly, looks the other way, totally, and then the play hasn't started yet. The face-off hasn't gone on yet, and he totally interferes with him. It happened four or five times in the last game. And he skates, tries to skate Ryan O'Reilly out of the way

and try to see if he gets a reaction from him. It is hilarious. And unfortunately, we didn't have a camera on it because we weren't back yet into play. The commercial break was still going on. And, you know, you got the shovels going between the benches, so guys kind of spin off a little bit. And so it's every shift.

And, you know, there's that famous picture of them on the plane. You've seen it. They've got the Kahn-Smeith Trophy. They've got the beers in front of them. They're at the card table basically on the Blues playing when they won in 2019 together. And they've got the Stanley Cup somewhere behind them. And I swear that one that's been around is the one I took. I sit in front.

I look back and I took that picture. And, you know, those two guys are, I mean, listen, when you win your, your champions forever, you, you, you, you know that. And, but they're, they're good friends off the ice. They play golf. You know, they see each other, but when they're on the ice and they're not often on the ice against one another, but it's the small things between whistles in the warmup that I

think still makes this game great. And I do love the fact that Ryan O'Reilly doesn't have any reaction whatsoever. It doesn't even get him to bite on it at all. But, and then Ryan O'Reilly in the locker room, I was there when someone asked him about being nervous, that he's never nervous. And when he said that, why do I look nervous? That was hilarious because it was a takeoff of Jordan Binnington.

So yeah, he's got, yeah, he's, he's a good one. He's, he's actually, he's better than a good one. He's just such a good person besides being a really good player. So on the Leafs quest to become champions forever, the way that those guys are buddies, they're trying to get through this team that's been there before. And, you know, a lot of people here in Toronto, I talked about it off the top of the show here,

just, you know, the vibe is that they went into Tampa Bay and stole two wins. You were watching that game awfully close. Not a lot of room for the Leafs to get through the neutral zone. It didn't feel like, you know, what are your thoughts on the run of play and who carried it? How did the Leafs hang in there against a Tampa Bay team that played much better in Tampa Bay well I'll tell you uh on our broadcast which you guys you know don't get here but at one point in

the uh it's the under six I did the batch interview with coach Cooper there was about nine minutes into the first period and uh the shots i think toronto had three shots on goal and i think three of them i could have stopped at that point so at the very end of my questions about the game because coop you know felt like they were in pretty good control of the game and he looked up at the clock he said i mean what they had three shots on goal uh they haven't had a lot of pressure so i'm happy with the way we started the game and so i looked at him and i kind of deadpan So are you saying that I could play goal for you tonight? And he gave me this really good look.

It was like, yeah, knock it off there, kid. Move along. But so that's the kind of control, you know, and I believe that. I believe that it wasn't, I don't think it was necessarily the neutral zone. I think there was a little transition. The only chances I was seeing, and I'm watching the game again right now, were a couple of pop-gun rush chances. Enter the zone, drop it back, a three-on-three or a two-on-two,

and take a wrist shot by the defenseman. Goalie sees it, makes a save, thanks for coming. I call that pop-gun offense. I didn't think there was nearly enough sustained pressure, and that's where I think the Toronto Maple Leafs have to do a much better job of holding on to pucks in the offensive zone, getting their D involved. I just pulled off about six clips right now when they were in the offensive zone, and this were second period clips.

They got the puck back to the point. It happened to be Justin Hall. I know he's not an offensive-minded guy, but the puck goes back to him. Tampa Bay collapses in a five-man unit because they know Toronto gets no offense from their defense. And those are facts. That's not me making it up. They don't get a lot of shot volume from their blue line. They don't get a lot of goals from their blue line.

And so, you know, Tampa Bay just kind of collapsed it back. And Justin Hall wouldn't shoot the puck. He played it off to the corner. Tampa Bay got the puck to get out of the zone. So I think there were several times in that game where Toronto can do themselves a favor and shoot those pucks towards the net, those little wristers.

And what happened late in both games? They shot pucks from the point. Now, mind you, it might have been Morgan Riley or different shots. I mean, Mitch Marners fired a couple. Austin Matthews makes a tip. But the best chances they're getting is when their forward comes up as a third man high

in the offensive zone, maybe because they're more talented to get pucks through but that's when the danger comes in for for tampa bay to defend against that but by and large there hasn't been a lot from that area of the ice until the game's been on the line and then they capitalize on it with great deflections including the game winner by kirpa, a lot of talk in the last few years about this hockey club and killer instinct. A loss tomorrow night wouldn't mean that they won't still win the series, but how important is it that they close this thing out tomorrow night? Well, listen, you guys have both played in seven game series and and that's that's what we love about hockey is seven game series we

grew up with them we played them at an early age in order to get into the back in our days anytime any type of championship well you had to win the seven game series and and the earlier you can close it out i mean it's necessary because even if you win the series even if you lose game five but somehow you win game seven the odds of a of an injury of fatigue of wear and tear and then going into the next round that's why all the good teams they've got that killer instinct to close it out, get it out in five, get your players healthy. Besides, you know, the city of Toronto would go absolutely crazy because you win your first playoff series. Since by the way,

I broadcast the last time the Maple Leafs won a playoff series. I was the broadcaster with Steve Levy on ESPN in 2004. So that's how long it's been. So, I mean, besides the injury aspect, the fatigue aspect, getting that mental rest, getting ready for the next round, the confidence to know that you just won a series. But this will be the hardest one by far to close out because Tampa feels like they've played some pretty good hockey and thinks that they should have won the last two games.

They haven't, and now the pressure and the party is going to be starting here, and that's the hardest one to win. So you know that. I mean, Tampa Bay is not going away. You know that. It'll be their very best game tomorrow night. And we're not going away either, me and Justin. No, no, no.

And you and Borny. We're sticking through it here. Panger, have a great call tomorrow night. Thanks, buddy. And as always, we love having you on the show. Thanks for your time, pal. It's my pleasure. Thanks for having me on the show, guys.

Enjoy hot stoving it around. Yeah. Darren Pang, TNT. I got to say, could we have gotten a more thorough, better answer on the conversations between the two benches? That was outstanding. That was really wonderful insight. I was hanging on every word. As good as having subtitles.

I know, it's so true. It's so true. I was, like I said, just hanging on every word. I was like a kid in a candy store. I was like, oh my God. Yeah. I like the idea that those guys are going at Nyes, like trying to make it hard on him.

And then knowing that happened when it did, and how great Nyes played the rest of the way on the road against a championship team didn't make him go away nice that's a good sign he doesn't seem i think he's just too young and dumb yeah i really care like he's like i just play the hockey hockey right i want his transcript from university because he does seem unfazed by everything. You want to know his GPA or anything? I do, kind of. There was a quote going around on Matthew Nye. Fake. It's a bogus quote.

It was fake. Yeah, of course it was fake. It was hilarious. You can just see how dangerous this stupid internet and social media can be. Because, you know, there's a lot of people that would fall for something like that if they didn't know him or didn't know that you know what i'm talking about i'm furiously trying to find it right now oh no i'll like did you see the marshall you have it

out you have in front of you uh yeah because people send it to me and they're like, can you believe Matthew Nye said this? And I'm like, no, I can't believe he said it. I literally cannot believe that. Yes. And it goes like this. Oh, this is so funny. Matthew Nye's when asked about Hagel's interview during the second intermission yeah maybe next time they could uh yeah maybe next time they should spend less time celebrating early and more often just trying to keep up with us

we're coming for them in game five and they better be ready for a fight because we're not letting up i'm like yeah okay to be clear he didn't that, if you're listening at home. That never happened. Who's believing this? I guess a lot of people that don't know. I'm not going to lie to you. I may or may not have had a couple group chats, so that got posted unironically. Oh, and I'm sure most people still believe that he really did say that.

You got to be careful out there. Listen, the things that I'm hearing that they can do on the internet, like take an image of you and make it sound like. Did we send you the Marchand one where him talking about Florida? You saw that one, right, Sammy? Oh, yeah. That's what I sent you in the morning like a little while ago. He was like, oh, I'm afraid of Sam Bennett. I woke up scared.

I'm like. It sounds real. It's usually him. It looks real. Yes. Yeah, man. You know, it's just that's. I'm scared for us.

Kids today are going to have to learn to discern real information. Here's what I want. Fake. Here's what I want. If they're so good at making fake. You just have to be skeptical of everything you hear until proven otherwise. This is a real off day conversation now, but how do they do it? What do they do in high school? Because I'd be, hey, hey chat gpt write an essay

in the style of me and they write me just error ridden you fail that's true but like you can just get a bot to write you an essay what the hell are you doing with that if you're a teacher yeah i think you have to know your students uh well enough to know quality control but definitely a concern. They didn't exactly call me Sammy Shakespeare in high school. Scary stuff, though. Scary. All right, Sammy, clean up some business.

Let me see here. It's time for Playoff Picks, presented by Bet365. Visit the apps for the latest odds. Only two hockey games tonight, boys. Makes me sad. It's getting to that time of year where it's gonna thin out and i hate it yeah so i thought that the full stop i thought that devils and rangers were playing tonight that's why i booked steve aliquette so my apologies to you but there's only two hockey games and uh it's the bruins and it is seattle i think tonight the

bruins probably get it done would you both be leaning towards that? Yeah, they're at home. Bergeron not back, I don't think. You guys called for the sweep. Did I? I think so. And then I went with they're going to win one game. So they're done.

Yeah. Is Bergeron not playing? I don't know. I don't know what Bergeron's status is. Okay, so he's taking warm-ups and will make a game-time decision. As long as he feels after warm-ups that he feels everything good, he's going to play, says Jim Montgomery. Okay, okay, okay. So, having had that piece of information,

Patrice Bergeron scores in his return. Linus Ulmark makes over 30.5 saves in the Bruins' win. That pays plus $6.50. So, an interesting little one there. They're going to need Olmark to be good. They're going to prepare Patrice Bergeron coming back. Did they announce he's coming back, or is that a game-time decision?

Game time. I wouldn't play him. No. I'd rest him. I'd rest Krejci and hope that the depth, which has already been proven, can close this thing out and give them more time off. Yeah. I agree with you. I like a same-game parlay, but I certainly don't want Bergeron to step in which has already been proven, can close this thing out and give them more time off.

Yeah, I agree with you. I like a same-game parlay, but I certainly don't want Bergeron to step in and score. That's not one that makes me super comfortable. If he's playing, he's feeling good, and he can score. Yeah, that's fair. And that building will be rocking. They love him. He's going to be very Bergeron-esque.

He's going to flare for the dramatic. Yeah, Kipper, that makes a lot of sense to me, where you just say, we're up 3-1. If it gets a little tighter, we'll rush you along. Use the time we have here. So, and the other game tonight is Seattle and Colorado, which. You know Colorado reeling. A surprising 2-2 series for everyone here.

Kael McCarr out tonight after his rotten hit in the corner there. He deserved to be suspended for more than one game, but he got one game because he's a star. So I'm good with that. All right. All these games have been pretty tight. It's a big game for Seattle. I don't know who's going to win,

but I probably think it's going to be pretty close. If you think it's going to go to overtime, it's three to one odds on an overtime game between those two teams tonight. Three to one. And they've been pretty tight. Still no word, I think, officially from Colorado on Nikushkin. I haven't heard anything. But he, no one expects him back anytime soon.

He's confirmed not playing tonight. Yes. But what isn't confirmed yet is, you know, anything from the hockey club officially. And, you know, a lot of people hoping that he, first of all, he's okay. Someone asked him if it was illegal, and I think the answer was no, it's not legal.

So I don't know what that even means. I don't know where that would be left at. This is from Peter Baugh, who covers the Colorado Avalanche. No update from Jared Bednar on Valerie Nikushkin. He said the team is still in contact with Nikushkin, and it's not a legal situation. Okay. To go back to this, though, to what you're talking about,

just real quick on Bet365, if you take the two underdogs, Seattle and Florida, plus a goal and a half each, you can get a parlay of about plus 200. I think it's plus 192. I like spotting both team a goal because you can see how both teams could make a push tonight.

Okay. Let's take a break here. That was Playoff Picks presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds. Steve Alliquette, when we come back, give us a like again. We love that stuff. Yeah, it was great. I don't know what it means.

What a day yesterday. Just a thumbs up. It's magic. Why do I really care about a thumbs up? It's a like again. We love that stuff. Yeah, that was great. I don't know what it means. What a day yesterday. Just a thumbs up. It's magic. What do I really care about a thumbs up? It's a great question. I don't know. All right, Steve Allicat, Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, after the break. This is Real Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590, The Van.

No one can ever accuse us on the Real Kipper and Bourne show from not supporting the goalie union. It's true. We do get a lot of good voices. From Darren Pang, let's go to Steve Vallecat. Valli, what's going on, buddy? You guys had Panger on earlier? Yeah, we did.

Yeah, it's like a warm-up band. Now, see, Panger, the only jersey I ever bought in my life was a number 40 Chicago Blackhawk Darren Pang, and that's why I wore 40 in the NHL. Wow. Did it come in small? In adult sizes? Yeah, did you find an adult-sized one? Kipper, I bought the jersey when i was 12 because i was

the same size there you go um he had a glove head yeah let's get into it boys we're in we're in deep despair here in new york how you guys doing we're good listen before we get into your uh issues down there uh maybe we'll get into some issues up here as the Toronto Maple Leafs in Tampa get going here. Listen, Leafs are up 3-1. Resiliency, yes, yes, yes, all of that. But a major storyline in this series is Vasilevsky and watching him come down to earth. How surprised are you at some of the issues around him? Well, first of all, I listened to your show yesterday and the day before yesterday and what you

guys talked about as it relates to Derek Lalonde. And I'm aware of it, the conversation. And I don aware of it, the conversation, and I don't know if it's state secret, but it's classified. And I think that's the term you chose to use, Kipper, when you were describing the information. Yes. Eight goals is legit.

Like, I watched them, and I know what he's doing, and I know why he's doing it, and I'm surprised he hasn't made the adjustment, but I'm certain he will know how to make the adjustment because it's become big news. Eight goals through 17 screens is what I have with our company. And you can see there's a clear reason why. See, I was on the ice this morning with a 15-year-old that's 6'2",

and for his age he's a big goalie. And he's able to look over the shoulder of the screen in front of him. I'm a left-handed shot at the blue line. When I slide the blue line, he's looking over the right shoulder of the screen. What am I going to do when I'm a defenseman? I'm looking at the screen and I want to be able to put it across the screener's body. So I'm going to his catching glove side. And there's two ways to play that. You can slide and reach and really open up. And then nothing's really going to help you bring the puck in. Benoit Allaire, our goalie coach in New York, used to always take his arm away from his body. And he would take his hand and he'd say, it could hit you in the arm here and go in. It'll hit

your arm here and go in. The puck can physically hit you in the middle of the chest if your arms are away from your body and it can find a hole so the idea is is that you shift over you get across in a short shuffle on that track you're not going to see the puck for about eight feet but guys at this level can pick up the trail and then you've got a body the size of Vasilevsky's. His biggest receiving frame is his upper body equipment. It's not his hands. You don't want to be handsy on point shots with screens and deflections. You receive the puck, and that's the adjustment he has to make.

And furthermore, he's got to get his chin down. He's looking at the horizon, and he's got to look down at the puck. I don't know why he's got his head so high. You know, it's interesting when you look at, like, defense effects on a goaltender. And one of the things, you know, that I'm looking at with all the screening going on, you mentioned the amount of screen plays the Leafs have had.

That's not something they did a ton this season. They've done it the most this postseason of any team, at least through four games. You know, is that something that you would say it's harder for a goalie when you play behind a certain decor? Like, how much of this can we blame the defense for the way Vasilevsky has played, for

just letting there be so much going on in front of him? Well, Chris Kreider would be the first one to tell you that 52 goals last year certainly helped that you can't get cross-checks at full extension anymore net front, right? That's one piece. The next piece is, you know, Justin, would you think that they're not getting –

okay, so two things, right? Either Tampa's not physical in front or they're not fast enough to get first position. Which of those two do you think it is? Because I'm following our series close and not yours as close, but is it they're just like physically getting beat down, Tampa's D, or are they not fast to get first position? They don't seem particularly light to me.

I'm guessing speed would make more sense there. Because, so here's the thing, right? This is what a goalie wants. If it's a sifter from the point, I want my D-man to front it. It doesn't hurt. It's a wrister. Just get in front of it and knock it down and get it down ice. But if it's a hard one-timer, then I want you to get under sticks

and I want to see the lane. I had a really interesting conversation a couple of weeks ago with Thomas Attar, and he was explaining to me that when he played with the Red Wings and Nicholas Lidstrom was at the point, he'd always had his head up, and he's looking, he's looking. He's like, when you're a net front screen and you see Lidstrom seeing everything and knowing where he's going to place it with accuracy, you feel very confident being net front when that guy's doing it.

And, you know, then we talked about guys having their heads down, and he's like, I don't want to be there because they don't know where they're shooting it. Now, what I'm seeing in your series is that most of these are wristers and sifters. So I'd be confident, you know, I, yeah, I'd be confident if I'm the net front guy screening. So whoever from Toronto is in front, they're getting the job done and they're confident to do it.

But if I'm Tampa's D I'm front and pox, like I want to get in front of it and not allow it to go through that Plinko. If you guys remember the price is right. Like that's sometimes what it's like in front of it and not allow it to go through that Plinko. If you guys remember the price is right. Like that's sometimes what it's like in front of a goaltender. We're talking to ex goaltender, Steve Allocat and star analyst for the New York Rangers on MSG Valley. When Vasilevsky was asked what he can do to fight through the leaf screen

screens better. He said by myself, FN x-ray glasses. Now I wasn't in the room when he said, by myself, FN x-ray glasses. Now, I wasn't in the room when he said it. It sounds kind of tongue-in-cheek, and maybe everybody had a good laugh. But what's the underlining message? Who's he really talking to there?

Oh, he's talking to his team, right? He's talking to his team. He wants to see lanes. But I think Vassie, Vassie, I'm telling you right now, I had this issue with a goalie last, no, it wasn't last summer. It was two summers ago. And the goalie, his name's Strauss Mann.

He played in the Olympics last year. And we were on the summer ice sessions, and he was at the University of Michigan at the time. And he's not a big guy. He's about six feet tall, 5'11", six feet tall. But he wanted to look bigger in his posture, and he wanted to look upright, the way that you see Vassie looking over the screen right now. But he was doing it on shots from in close.

And although you look big and feel big, you're actually small because the vertical angle is more like your waist, especially when you're Vassie's size. But the bigger point is that you have to have proper head position. It's all about being able to degree your head down towards the puck. The puck is coming from the ice. The only time a goalie almost ever believes me when I'm having this conversation with them is if I have a GoPro on the ice behind the puck to

give them the puck's perspective. But what I'm saying to you guys is that he's not looking at it right. He's got to get his head down. Devin Dubnik said this to me, and it was the best that a goalie had ever said it to me. He said, I have to imagine my eyeballs are stuck in my eye sockets, and the only way I can see the puck is if I move my head to do so. Now, if that visual makes sense to you guys, I'm saying that he's got to bring his head down. He's got to degree his head down.

His chin has to come down so he can see the puck all the way through the release because right now the puck is coming low and underneath his cone of vision. Yeah, and that has been obviously played out in the Leafs' favor so far. You know, I'm sure like us, the conflicting start times have meant you haven't got to see it all as much. So let's talk a little bit about what's going on with the Rangers. We haven't done a do yet because, really, of the overlapping time slots. What's going on in New York that they were able to

or that they weren't able to get a win at home? Akira Schmid goes in and keeps that dynamite Rangers offense at bay. Yeah, we're definitely perplexed here, Borny. We had 10 goals to two in favor of the Rangers in the first two games. And, I mean, I was already planning the parade, man. I had my float ready. I had a sip of sunshine, which is my favorite IPA, loaded in the back of my hot tub.

Like, I was ready to go. And you come home, and everybody's now really frustrated because of the effort. Game number three, the Rangers had a power play about six minutes into the first period. They had six or seven great looks on that power play. They didn't score. Mika Zibanejad was robbed on a one-timer from the slot,

and then it just went downhill from there. Game number four, badly outworked. The scoring chances were pretty even. Schmid was not really tested too much, but he's been sharp. Like, he's very big. He's very quiet. He plays a very technical game. But the Rangers have only had two east to west chances

on him in two games. They had five screens on him in game three, which was his first start, but only one in game four, his second start. So they kind of got away from what they were trying to accomplish. It seemed as a game plan. Right the fans are really uh pissed off you know they're really pissed off everybody wanted this to be at least a split at home and i was thinking it was going to be a sweep based on games one and two and i was i was wrong man i got uh to eat my words over here in this region for the last 48 hours really shocking that uh for me that New Jersey can go in there and play shutdown at two one and then the empty netter. But like, it's not like Shusterkin's putting up big numbers,

like even Vasilevsky here. No, you mean like he's been good. Yes. Shusterkin's been good. So here's another thing too. It's the rush game. We talked all year about New Jersey's rush game. It's elite.

It is the best in the league. It's the best based on the amount they get and quantity. They have the best quality. In game one, they had 17 rush chances. And I was like, oh, boy. I mean, the Rangers are going to be in one if they just keep going at this rate. They shut it down in game two. They had nine. They came back in game three and had 16

and they had seven rush chances in game four on Monday so the Rangers I don't know if it's one of those where they're defending so hard that they've kind of forgot to get inside Mika Zibanejad he's only had four scoring chances where he's got inside, inside ice. He's only had two high danger chances in four games. And Jack Hughes is like a man on a mission. He's demanding the puck every time he's on the ice. He's even thrown the body around in the last couple of games in a response from the way he received contact in games one and two. He's had four breakaways, two goals on breakaways.

He's been inside. Conversely to Zibanejad, four inside the house chances. He's only had, oh, he's had 11 himself. So he's been doing it, man. He's had seven high danger chances. Panarin had three pretty clear-cut scoring opportunities in game three, missed the net by three feet on a breakaway, three feet on a one

timer down low with an open net and another one from the slot so things could be different but i mean we're actually in shock from the rangers point of view that we're here at two two after the first two yeah maybe not the worst thing to have an extra day to sort of regroup on it um how have the deadline acquisitions been looking so far? Obviously, it was all about the postseason. You're through four games and had your first looks at him. Kane, Tarasenko, they been all right? Yeah, so I would say for Kane, and I would exclude game four

because everybody was just off. But game three, he was on. He was awesome in game three. He was better in game two than game one. Game one, pretty quiet, pretty stationary. Tarasenko is a playoff player. He's been big, heavy. He's really helped the right side for the Rangers.

I'm sure that big view, everybody's very happy with the personnel. For whatever reason, it was one one of those it was really the worst like you could say it was the worst effort of the season in game four um gerard galant thought so in the postgame presser that's what we thought we were watching henrik and i in the studio we're like are these guys even like showing up tonight it was almost like one of those moments where i had this you know during my career at different points where you become a spectator of your own play whether I play the puck up on the wall and just watch it and then Jesus Christ there's a turnover and it ends up in the back of the net you know and it looked like that's what they were doing it wasn't that they were skating

in quicksand they just seemed to and I'll say it this way too, because the advantage I've said in the post game presser, he said, it seemed like we were all just waiting for one of us to do it. And nobody did it because you can look around the room and you can say, we've got Kane, Tarasenko, we've got Crider, we got Trocek, you know, the advantage ad, they were all waiting for somebody else to step up and nobody did. Valley, let me ask you this. And I want your answer based on first round performance only. If you had a must win game, which goalie would start for you? This one's for Sam McKee, Vasilevsky.

After everything you've seen in the first round, you're giving me vasilevsky no i'm just i'm just trying to beat up okay i take everything you say literally no i'm sorry no i would honestly shisterkin he's if if it gets right down to a game seven and i'm a betting man i'm gonna put money on igor shisterkin i i maybe it's unbiased i watch him so closely but he's a gamer, and I love watching him play. I'd say Igor Shosturkin. I do want to follow up on the Leafs.

Hold on. Okay. I take Jake Ottinger. Yeah, Jake Ottinger has been terrific. You like him? Not a bad choice. Not a bad choice. But the best goalie down the stretch, the best goalie down the stretch the best goalie down the stretch since

mid-march a little bit before march uh it was march 9th i know that because that's when i felt like he took off he's been the best goalie in the league and he's right up there in the postseason but ottinger's a really good one uh that's been a good goalie duel uh back and forth gustin and he uh but no i'm just a good one. There's not as much, you know, you haven't been able to see as much to evaluate Samsonov here in Toronto, but I am curious just your thoughts on goaltending well enough to win.

You know, we used to hear people talk about Grant Fuhrer and they would say that, you know, when they needed him to not let in the sixth one, you know, that he was able to shut it down. Samsonov's done that. His numbers aren't pretty, but he's made enough saves for this team here in Toronto. It was funny. We were just texting about him, Borny.

Paula McHale is our producer, and she's married to Butch Boring. You guys have Butch on. Yeah. So, yeah. So, Paula and I were just texting before we came on. I came on with you guys because we're getting our format ready for tomorrow's pregame show. And the one thing that came up was how we're not moving Akira Schmid back and forth enough in the series, in the two games at least. And she was asking me, you know, can you look up on your system?

Who's the goalies that are allowing the most east to west around the league, et cetera? We'll put a graphic together for tomorrow's pregame show. And Samsonov has allowed six on 12 east to west. Has that been something that's been noticeable for you guys? Yes. I didn't like Sergeyev's goal the other night. I didn't like him on that. Totally east to west.

Yeah. And he's just, so here's the thing look at this and you guys you don't have to be goalie experts to see this but at some point during the east to west movement the goalie's head comes out and his comes forward a lot he shoots his head forward and that's why he ends up on his belly right and you can really look at that for the reasons why a goalie may be susceptible on East-West plays. Because as the puck comes from the passer's stick and it comes through the seam, the puck actually gets closer to you. So you have to, again, using that Devin Dubnik example, which is a really good one, imagine your head tracking that puck all the way across the seam. His head, as the puck comes across, his body seems to dart forward, and his head comes out.

And because it comes out, he ends up flopping and swimming. He's got to keep his head better through that rotation down and over rather than out. Some guys come back. A lot of guys pick their heads up when the puck comes through the seam, and that's why they fall on their ass. So you can look for that for for different reasons of head positioning now you got a call for uh devils and rangers game five uh i have no call i mean i look i just

finished our podcast that i'm doing as well for uh game by game beat and i before the series kipper i said coin flip like honestly and right now i guess I'm right back to where I was in the beginning, and I think this is going to go seven. I'm expecting the Rangers to show up tomorrow, but, man, I just – I know how you – I've listened to you guys this year. There's games where you're like, are you guys serious? Like, what was that? That's how I feel today.

Basically our show for the last two years. Yeah, that's all the show is. Valley, great stuff as always, man. Thanks for joining us. My pleasure, fellas. Have a good one. Yeah, thanks, Valley. Appreciate your time.

Steve Allocat, New York Rangers MSG. Interesting stuff, eh, on the head and how often goalies end up on their belly based on head positioning. That's a good point on Samson. That adds up for me. You know often goalies end up on their belly based on it's a good point on that adds up for me you know how he ends up on his stomach just kind of like launching himself and oh well for the most part full credit for this guy he's hanging in there and like you said he bends but he doesn't break hey his road record was a topic of conversation going into the playoffs he just left tampa bay 2 and 0

on the road not gonna pick and choose about uh didn't like that one it's like yeah he got her done and a commanding 3-1 lead results not processed all right we'll pick up on that uh when we come back jason bucala former nh NHL scout, writer for Sportsnet.ca. We'll get his thoughts. A lot of discussion with Jason in the past on Matthew Knives. We're going to get his thoughts for the first time on the Real Kipper and Born show after the break. You're watching and listening to me and JB. Perfect.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. All right, let's go via satellite. Do people say that anymore? I don't know what's via what anymore. Isn't that how Elvis from Hawaii was? Maybe. Via satellite? Probably.

All right. Maybe not via satellite. Let's welcome in Jason Buchla from Switzerland. Is that true? Yes, sir. Yeah, yeah. Over here at the World Under-18 Championships. Just settling back into my confines here in Basel, Switzerland.

So, yeah, it's been a good tournament. Satellite, via satellite, we just showed our age. We just showed our age right there. Yeah, we sure did. I know, for sure. The Leafs have anyone in that tournament, Bukes? No, not yet. Not yet.

This is pre-draft. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Okay. This is pre-draft. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Okay. This is pre-draft, yeah. All right. So, you know, just to kind of change gears a little bit on you, last time we've spoken, we had a lot of talk about Matthew Nyes and the anticipation of him becoming a Toronto Maple Leaf.

And everybody thinking from this guy is a can't-miss star to he'll never contribute. Where are we right now with what you've seen? He's exactly where we kind of, or where I thought he would be. I mean, the three of us kind of exhausted it on the buildup to the opportunity the kid got, and I think we were all in agreement that his element off the puck and then his element on the puck, even when he's not scoring goals,

producing offense was going to be a key contributor in whatever role Toronto threw him in. And I think he's played right to that identity, fellas. I mean, he's got the one assist that he could have had a few more apples for sure. But, I mean, mean hey taking a puck off the goal line is compete in all the little areas has been really good his detail has been good his energy is great he looks like he looks like i don't know he doesn't look like a college player at all he looks uh he looks like he's been with the group for a while so good on him he's

been a big part of it so far when you're evaluating someone like a matthew nize how much do you consider personality or demeanor because like personally if tanner juneau and pat maroon told me they were going to kill me i would cry in a corner he seems pretty unfazed by the whole moment and any of the intimidation stuff so hey you know through the process the Leafs did a fantastic job of identifying his characters you know we they got a they got a first round value out of his draft slot there's no question about that but beyond that as you guys know it's the tangibles especially in the hard days hard games that are going to push you through to not only enjoy individual success but you know contribute in a big way to your team's success.

And, you know, the fact that he reacts that way and that he's involved in absolutely everything, it just, you know, the confidence in the group. I think, like Kipper, I don't know if you had anybody, you know, that came in, you know, back in the day, even with the Rangers that was young like that. But I think when a young guy comes in, when he believes confidence, not cockiness,

and he's not afraid to get involved in the fight, you don't have to worry about him. And that's, that's reassuring. Yeah. You know what? My, my time in Washington early,

I remember that with Keith Jones, to be honest with you. Yeah. Jonesy and I have a little bit of history, brief one in Washington. I just remember him coming in and being fearless in, in that capacity. The other thing too,

is the, the, the domino effect of having Matthew Nye's now in and contributing and the decision of not playing bunting Jason, just your thoughts on that for me, right from the beginning, an easy decision to have him sit back in game five. Justin said he first thought that the thought of putting him back in

wasn't a bad one. Where do you sit? No, I went back and forth with Borny a bit on this myself, and I'm a keep-em-out-of-the-lineup guy. You know, even outside of what happened in game one, the fact of the matter is that the team has strung together three wins by the skin of the teeth in a couple of games, albeit. But you don't change a good thing now.

And the team doesn't need to answer questions on him coming back in, first of all. And we don't need, you know, the group that's done it in the last three games, they deserve a chance to finish it out that's my take on it so i'm not going to overthink it um if they get through this series and then they still got a big one to win if they get through this then you rethink it for the start of the next series but for now you keep it exactly the way it is well and it's interesting in trying to figure out you know where to slot everyone so they're if they're going to leave

bunting out right now they got Nyes in the top six. We just talked about him, and he seems fairly unfazed. What are your thoughts on Kelly Yarncroft occupying a top spot for them? Is that sustainable over any sort of playoff run? He's kind of the only guy, I think, personally in any book, so I haven't seen a ton from, but they do like him in that spot. Yarncroft's a little bit of a, you know, there's two shades of Yarncroft. In the past, you know, if you look at his time at Calgary,

he couldn't put a puck in the ocean, right? And then he came over here and he's found some success playing with the right guys in Toronto. But it's not sustainable over 16 wins in playoffs for him to be a top six point producing forward. I see him more as a three, um, secondary option offensively provide the energy, you know, you can kill penalties, you can do some other things. So I see him more in that role. Um, but having said that again, like how do you shuffle the deck guys, right? Like it's, uh, you know, now you move knives up. guys, right? Like it's, you know, now you move Nyes up.

If you bring Bunting back in, you know, is Aston Reese the next guy out? I don't know. Like I'm just – I think you have some decisions to make when you need to make them. Kerfoot scoring that big goal the other night, you know, he's not coming out right now or probably not coming out at all anyway. So I don't know. I don't have a straight line answer for you,

but I would say this, Yarncroft's more a three than a one for me. Let's welcome in listeners on Sportsnet 590, the fan who just witnessed the Jace shellacking of Chicago. We were talking to Jason Bukala, former NHL scout and writer for Sportsnet.ca. Bukala, when it comes to the Tampa Bay Lightning, no one ever wants to kind of just throw away Stanley Cup champions

and the character that they've had. But have you seen enough to say fundamentally for the first time in three years that they are just not the same team? I think they gave it all they had at home in those two games. They very clearly could have won both those games. But the depth is certainly not there. And, you know, I'm pointing to players on their roster that in this series specifically against Toronto, like last year, I thought Nick Paul was a difference maker in the Leafs series for Tampa.

And, you know, he's been a shell of himself. His impact has been marginal at best. He's a minus. They're not getting enough out of Stamkos at even strength. Sergeyev's a dash three playing 28 minutes a night. You know, and to be fair to to him the back end's just thin guys and and the goaltender's not had the uh he just hasn't come up with that that extra stop for them so far so it's amazing um that we're sitting here and even though samsonov hasn't been great

and um i do have when this if this series ends in the least favor it's going to be time to regroup and break down some things because it hasn't been a perfect scenario on the Leaf back end either. Their gap control and their routes to contain players and a whole bunch of things have gone wrong. But Tampa, I just don't see them being able to keep up to run the table here against Toronto right now. Tell us a little bit more about what you're seeing there.

I've seen Giordano and Hall to me, they seem backed way off. They seem to have some trouble breaking pucks out. What are you seeing from the Leafs decor, which is, I would say, probably the spot they've been hurting the most in the series. Yeah, I totally agree with that. I don't, Giordano looks really slow to me right now. Like his, his jump to small area space isn't, you know, even on the penalty kill, like if the puck rotates down below the goal line, comes back to the half wall,

or if they work one back seam, he seems like he's having, he's just a shade off jumping out to get his body even in the lane. So quick twitch is off. I think he looks tired. Hall's routes for a big guy and his gap control, even with his length, have been extremely concerning. I've got Lilligren on deck.

Honestly, if there was a guy that I would have... I know the coach loves him. I know the guy plays hard minutes and all this other stuff. Guys, if you really want to break down his game, watch it closely. You don't want a guy who comes behind the net, he comes down the wing, goes behind the net, he's going to cycle the game to the other side.

Instead of being on his right hip to take him to the corner, Hall's like gapping up or trying to take him off on the left hip, which just allows the play to continue behind the net in the scoring area. Like, I'm talking about simple routes and how to contain guys, and it's not good enough. And if they get through this, it's going to have to improve a lot for the next round for sure. Anything else you want to see improved going into game five and trying to close this thing out? I just want them to start on time.

I want them to get on it early and often. You know, don't expect to be after 40 minutes climbing a mountain again. Those things are anomalies in playoffs. It's nice when it happens. But I think the first seven minutes of this game, roll everybody out, a little body on the puck. Achari's got like 28 hits or something in this series, which is astounding. And those roll guys, get them wet early, get them physical,

get pucks in behind the Tampa D, get on them, tire them out early, and then just work pucks to the net. I can't be any more simple than that. So how is the pro league in the Swiss? Any more Austin Matthews coming out of there? There's

a kid over playing in Cloton, David Reinbacher, big right shot D. He's going to be a draft disturber this year. I see him potentially going as high as number six in the draft. And that's a more insider type of disturbance in the first round if that happens. So the rest of it that I'm over here right now is the world under 18 championships for this draft. And I'll tell you, it's going to be fascinating in Nashville. I know we're, we're in the heat of battle playoffs, but come that time, the next wave of superstars are playing right here in this tournament.

It's going to be fun. Well, we certainly appreciate you making time for us over there. Jason, thanks for doing this pal. Safe travels. Anytime fellas. Look forward to seeing you. Thanks. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. Jason Buchla sportsnet.ca. Yeah. Look forward to seeing you. Thanks. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. Jason Bukla, Sportsnet.ca. Yeah, Charlie has a ton of hits. I always envision in the Swiss League a lot of play in the neutral zone.

Come on. No one dumps it in. That's just a bad, bad joke. It's a good old-fashioned dad joke right there. So you mentioned how he joined Sportsnet 590, the fan, in progress after the Jays. John Schneider ended his press conference with a goal, Leafs go. He did. Atta boy. He's got the passion.

He's got the passion. Officially part of Leafs Nation. The Romano's a big hockey guy, too. Yeah. Oh, yeah. He's a big. He's got the. Shulman today was talking about him carrying that Leafs angst

that our boy Sammy has, the young angst. Alright, we still got a few Kippers Clippers to go here. We've got our best ones. We do. We got Ammo. You want Nyes or you want to go to Willie? I'm good on either. I think the Nyes one is a funny

clip from Keefe. Okay, let's go to Sheldon Keefe on Nyes staying in the lineup. Perfect. Very good hockey player. It's really that simple. And I guess in addition to the talent, he's got confidence and some swagger to him, and he just goes out and plays. I love it.

It's that simple. We're going to put our good players on the ice. It is that simple. He's too damn good gonna put our good players on the ice it is that simple he's too damn good to take out of the lineup he looks like he belongs he's a big block head that just looks like a good hockey player he looks good every shift grows up i know you know it's funny everyone has talked about this guy now he's gotten a lot of praise and typically we've seen the leafs every time they get a lot of praise they start to tail off can he be the guy who just continues to play well even when people praise him and he is gonna score I know yes I yeah I bet on it this series well Thursday yeah sure I'd bet

I'd bet that yeah he's getting he is all around it three six five all around it. Let's look it up on 365. All around it. All right, this one's interesting because I've not heard it yet, but I'm intrigued on Sheldon Keefe's comments on the lack of ice time for Willie Nylander. 14 mins for Willie last game. Yeah, it is a balance. I mean, for me, it's about trying to put Willie in positions to succeed and utilize his strengths and try to protect some of the areas where he's maybe not doing as well or playing as well.

When Willie's at his best, you don't have to protect as much, and you can just go. But I felt on the road in particular that that wasn't the case necessarily. But he's still a very important guy for us, so it's important for me not to lose him because he still, as you say, can provide a lot in very important moments. And he certainly did that the other night. There were times outside of that last 10 minutes where he couldn't find

anywhere to hide Tavares and Willie. No. And like Sergeyev is his guy when Sergeyev scores. I forget what rush it's on. He's the guy in the set breakout. He doesn't get back and it's his guy who scores. Horrific penalty in the first period that puts them on their first power play when they get their goal, when he kicks out Stamkos' feet.

Slew-footed. It was so dumb. I got him for like three or four direct blown coverage goals against for the Leafs in this series. So I think that's what he's talking about. When Wildey's playing well, you don't have to protect him. He played 13 or 14 minutes because Keefe obviously feels like right now or in that game, he had to protect him.

Couldn't play him in the D zone. And then go back with Matthewthews and big plays yeah i don't they get this little like tiny spark every time they do the little the flip so i don't know how often you can go to that to get the flip or get the spark but that second goal they got is just all world it's like the behind the back through the neutral zone pass by brody perfect little drop from kneelander to math to marner marner just snap right away and then how long is that on matthew stick half a second and it's in the back of the net like that's that's this team in a nutshell when they're looking good so the good leaves for sure yeah. Is there anything you liked on Sheldon Keefe's comments on the extra day off?

Do we really care? Um, no. Just put it in there if we wanted it. I don't know. The Cooper stuff is far more juicy. Well, listen. You know Tampa's down 3-1 in this series because it's taken us over an hour and a half to go to a John Cooper clip. Coop time.

It's time for Cooper's Kippers Clippers. I will say something here about Cooper and the way that he addresses the media. Because they practiced at Amelie today in Tampa. They're probably traveling today. They're probably just getting here now. And he was with the Tampa media today, right? There wasn't any Leafs media down there. They're all back here.

His tone and the way he acts with the Tampa media versus when right? There wasn't any Leafs media down there. They're all back here. His tone and the way he acts with the Tampa media versus when he's in Toronto, it's two different guys, which I find very, very interesting. So are we going to sense that now? Well, the one clip is interesting, but we'll play the, before we get to the Lalonde one, let's talk about

him on his group, and you'll hear the tone that he talks about. Actually, I liked everything about today. The guy had popped, they had jumped in their step. I think that day off did us well. Like I said, we're not going to win a series in our next game. We've just got to win one game and we've done that ample times this year. But the attitude and I think the guys came in here a little refreshed, feeling pretty good.

So it was a good day today. See what I mean? Much more just like kind of like cliche-y and talking like, you know, just much more. That's condescending. I don't expect anything much different. Like we're going to get comments from him again tomorrow in the morning. Yes, sir. I don't think much changes between that and coming to Toronto in the morning.

You think we're going to get something more? You think we'll get more juice or attitude from him? He's building something up here to shoot his guys out of a cannon? I do. him i think he's building something up here to shoot his guys out of a cannon i do i think tomorrow he knows cooper knows how big a hole they're in here right and i think tomorrow is a borderline last stand moment for him in front of the media so a little rah-rah you thinking out of tomorrow big time i think cooper loves the attention and the respect afforded to them. Like when things go wrong and he can say, we went to the cup three years in a row. Don't question us.

People go, oh, yeah, they did three years in a row. Like whatever they do, Cooper's like, don't forget who we are. Winning does that, guys. For sure. But, you know, there's sometimes where he's saying, well, this is making it look like things are on purpose that aren't, or they're fine where they're not.

And I think being at the risk of losing it all here, that respect a first round five game knockout to the Leafs would really ruin some of that aura for him. I think you'll see some defensiveness tomorrow and some reminding the media and everyone who, do you know who the hell you're talking to? I think you're going to getiveness tomorrow and some reminding the media and everyone who, do you know who the hell you're talking to? I think you're going to get some of that at a coop tomorrow. A hundred percent.

That's what I'm getting at with like the, not the last day, it's a big stand. You know, listen, listen, I'll tell you what's what I, you know who we are.

So do you guys want to hear the clip about him addressing Derek Lalonde? Yeah. It's a, it's a story that isn't going away. No, certainly not. Interesting that we had Darren Pang on, and he mentioned it, and there's a lot of people out there. It's out there.

We're weighing in Steve Vallecat as well today on the show, but John Cooper had a chance to address his former assistant coach. Our boy Eric Erlandson asked him the question. So there you go. Give him credit for it. Did you get a chance to watch Derek on Sportsnet? No. No?

Did you catch some of what he said about Vazzy? I heard about it. Listen, Sportsnet is paying him well to go give an opinion. So he's got to make something up about that kind of stuff. He does. Like I said, we're playing, so we can't watch what's going on in the games. And listen, he's there because he was assistant coach on this team. So he's trying to offer insight and trying to give the fans something.

And so he should be doing that. It's just going to make sure it's accurate. What are you saying? I was going to say a little bit too much inside information that he's given out. Well, it's got to be accurate before you say it. That's my only thing. I had a chance to watch. Oh, boy.

Listen. Oh, boy. Get. Oh, boy. Get going, Hockey Night in Canada, and lie. Yeah, that's kind of what he said. Yeah, I mean, I know you guys feel a certain way about what Coop said. Well, I just, I'm like, I'm certainly pissed that Derek's getting paid a lot of money, and we're slugging it out here. That's my number one.

That's my number one complaint about that clip. What the hell? Where's that money coming from? He's telling Stevie Eisenman to get off his wallet and pay the guy so he doesn't have to come over to do work, extra work. Yes. That's noteworthy. But, you know, what else? This is all Cooper can say. This is the, you know, what else? This is all Cooper can say.

This is, you know, he has to. Well, it's got to be accurate. He has to make the point that it's not true. That Vasilevsky doesn't have weak spots. He's the best in the world, right? How many times has he come on here and he says that? Oh, he's the best in the world. He's the best in the world.

He doesn't want people thinking there's any holes. He has to say. Is that the part where. To win today, he has to say is that the part where to win today he has to say lalonda's life so you get uh you get the sense that he's he's not accurate on his assessment of vasilevsky or he's not accurate on the information that we collected i i think the implic the implication to me is that it's just not true that that's the case with Vasilevsky. That maybe he has, Lalonde has the info wrong or whatever,

but that what he said about Vasilevsky is not true, is Cooper's point to me. I think it's just him defending because it is true. It's true. What Lalonde said is 100% true. Why would he make that up? No. 100%, you're right. He's just defending. The information is true from Lalonde. is 100% true. Why would he make that up? No. You don't go like.

100% you're right. He's just defending. The information is true from Lalonde. It's true. And they've scored every goal in the series by doing that. It's true. Listen. You think Ron and the gang and Derek, they got to talk about this tomorrow night? Yeah, you got to.

No. They don't. Oh, I would address that. Oh, no, no oh no no no no you don't you don't john cooper doesn't get to go on uh an interview and and say i'm lying or i'm not accurate without uh response i think lalonde was making a throwaway comment and i doubt they're going to want to do a segment on something he didn't want highlighted in the first oh no no he's turned himself into a TV star

right now. He's got to keep going. I love this part. He should bring the data. He should be straight up. If I'm Stevie Iserman, he doesn't see the light of day tomorrow night. You're done, sports. It's over. I've got some PowerPoint presentations on my computer from the Mike Babcock

era Leafs about, you know, structure plans, you know, different sort of research that they did. I'm sure Lalonde has that stuff. He probably has the study. It would be unbelievable if he goes, he should do a PowerPoint. He should I see tomorrow.

He just wants to mess with me. As the video shows. Here's the playbook. Listen. Listen. You should start with that tomorrow. I'll give you listen. Oh, my God.

Tell you whose turn it is to listen, John. Well, it's got to be accurate before you say it. Oh, it's got to be accurate. Oh, yes, I am. Shut the hell up. Jesus. He's going to the world championships, isn't he? LeMond?

I think maybe. I don't know. I think he is. Yeah, I think so. It can't come fast enough for him. Oh, yeah. He's like, he wants finishing five. Leaves in five.

Please, God. Get me out of here. Get me back behind the bench in my comfort zone. I love it. God, I love it. Oh. You think Iserman would? You got to be accurate.

That's just fun TV. You think Iserman wouldn't like it, eh? That is so un steve eiserman yeah i mean i i could see that i could see not wanting to but yeah i don't know what he gets paid i'm i don't know i don't know i don't want to bury the guy because i like it like i don't want to discourage i want him to keep saying these things so i don't want to discourage guy because I like it. Like, I don't want to discourage. I want him to keep saying these things, so I don't want to discourage it. Say more. More. Anyways, fun TV.

For sure. All right. The juice is good. This is good. Oilers, convincing. Yeah. Conor McDavid. Leon Dreissel.

Yeah. Beautiful goal off his chin. Very Heimlich. Yeah, just chin buttted it into the net. That was a beaut. Two pucks off aces last night. Sebastian Ajo, you see that one? Yeah, I did.

Where's it in the mouth? He was leaking. And the puck goes in before it lands on the ice after off his face. What a night for getting pucks in the face. I'm starting to feel a little better that the Leafs didn't trade for Corpus Allo now, maybe. See, I told you guys that I never trusted him. Bloom is off the rose.

What's the saying? Yeah, that's right. That's good. Yeah, they blew him a little bit off the rose. He was bad again. Yeah. He got pulled. Phoenix gets into the game.

Is the guy spelled funny, Phoenix? Skinner came in, settled up. gets into the game. Is the guy spelled funny, Phoenix? Isn't it? No. Skinner came in, settled up. Yeah. Or settled down. It just is unbelievable to me the havoc that Drysaddle and McDavid wreaked together.

The two of them played last night on a line, and it's just, what do you do with that group? Oh, my God. He's just, Drys do with that group god he's just tricidal is a mule so he had four near goals in the first 10 minutes of that game fucking mule wow making sure we got that one with a b right everybody behind the glass all went oh my he is happy Gilmore rant you cannot stop this guy yeah he's coming through you around you over you but you cannot stop Leon dry saddleddavid is you know just unfair

total cheat code for a game listen he's great offensively unbelievable oh boy they don't play in the defensive zone a whole lot but he is downright awful in his own zone well he's looking to go he's looking to go like willie does but go like Willie does. But yeah, like, I mean, yeah, you'd wish Willie looked like that in the other zone. Not many people on earth ever have looked like that. He is very, very, very bad in his own zone. Very bad. The effort level in his own zone is not good. Not comparable.

But unbelievable offensively. One of the best offensive players I've, like, seen ever. Yeah. No, it has been some show. Some show. So smart. Yeah. players i've like seen ever yeah no it has been some show some show so smart yeah um i did not see marcus felino go knee on knee with fasca uh yeah sorry you didn't see it i i saw it but i didn't get a great look or read off of it so i'll i'll go to you first uh a legit call yeah legit you know to me it's recklessness

on felino's part it's not that he stuck out a knee he definitely didn't extend it um you know i just it's just when you're reckless and someone gets hurt you're on the hook for the damage so that's the way felino plays and it's just going to happen sometimes, unfortunately. Don't think he's a particularly dirty player. He is running around. Yeah. At all times. He does make a difference here, but you can get carried away. The hit is a tough one because the puck's up in the air.

Faxa catches it, and he kind of brings it down, and he is in a sweet spot to get hit. Like, he's not really looking, and he goes in with his knee tucked and his shoulder cocked. Like, it's like a good hitting position, and they kind of just drift apart badly. Like, I don't know. It's an unfortunate one.

I don't really have a lot. Here you go, Kipper. Let's have a live viewing on the radio. There are faxes coming up through the middle. We're frozen. There you go. And so, you know, not filthy. Ah, we got a commercial now.

Anyway. I hate those commercials. I know. Got to pay the bills, you know. 15 or 20 seconds of just misery. Just give me the hit. Please. Who's in charge of that on the internet?

When I do my articles on sportsnet.ca, if I keep it under a certain length, pre-roll doesn't go on, and they're always under by like half a second. Oh, wow. Yeah, make an effort on that one. I'm looking out for the people. So nerdy in a smart way. It's better than being nerdy in a smart way it's better than being a dumb way that's the worst combo um there there there's always been a side of me that uh knowing that i can miss a hit

but i can still get a piece of somebody yeah and that's the danger of your recklessness yeah you speak of and i know the feeling of committing to to hitting someone and all of a sudden it becomes clear in the final second that they're not going to be in the exactly you personally but you've watched your teammates right i used to hit i used to hit but knowing that like you know trying to last second get a piece so you don't look like a fool just catch a little something of the guy at least yeah and there's some of that to that if he misses that 100 big old whiff would have been pretty embarrassing or not to excuse it done you think uh they're in real trouble uh pavelski i think is going to play in game six which is a big addition i feel like the stars are definitely dark horse to go to the final here. They're underrated, man. You know who's made, I don't want to say a great comeback,

but turned themselves into players again is Tyler Sagan and Jeremy Benn. Absolutely. What happened there? A couple years ago, it was almost as if they were done. I know. He's got four goals, I think, second in playoffs. They're like, can't get rid of these contracts, and it's just killing us, and

lo and behold, every time I look up, Ben's making a rush, or he's pissing somebody off, or he's back. You get a bounce back here. He has 33 goals in the regular season. He's already up to four points in five games for them in the playoffs. He does look back.

He's just hard to play against. He's a big guy. He was Matthew Kachuk before Matthew Kachuk was Matthew Kachuk. How many Kachuks could Chuck Kachuk be?

Be very fucking careful with that one. Chuck Kachuk. He could beat you in many ways. Yeah. I mean, he's a force. Very intimidating dude. I was looking at hits in the playoffs and, you know,

a charry being one off the lead score now, though. Two goals, 25 hits. What a deadline throw into a trade. I know he's not a throw in for real, but no, I think he was the equivalent of a second round pick. Yeah. Chari for a second. Boyin to a trade. I know he's not a throw-in for real. No, I think it was the equivalent of a second-round pick. Yeah, Chari for a second. Boy, that sure looks good. That trade was unbelievable.

Is he on an expiring contract too? He is, yeah. See, they got to get it done now. All these guys are going to outprice themselves here for next year. Price of success. They got to look after it. Achari's not. Someone's going to want him next year at probably $2 million.

Why wouldn't you? He is awesome. He has come as advertised. The granite man. He just runs into everything. And he's got a good stick around the net. That tip he made to get the first goal was really nice so for sure you want to give uh our boy angval some credit now we razzed him yesterday for his zeros across the board he shot one in the hockey net last game way to go pierre

first career playoff goal did you get a good look at that series they got outplayed i watched yeah they're not carolina outplayed them. Generally, they're not the better team. You know, like they're not, they can't skate with them. They can't create. But they do the thing that can help you upset a team, which is they do the right things. They're in the good spots. They have a great goaltender.

And so it's tough to score on them. And here now, they go back to UBS Arena on Friday night, which I think Tara Vinen is out, out, right. To go with Svechnikov being out and Patrick, the whole series. Did they not?

So, you know, you can argue that they're going to have a really hard time scoring without their three better scores. So the Islanders at home, they get one there, boy, they're there.

I mean, I know they're down three, two, but I would tell you that Islanders fans believe that they are not done in this series yet. Matthew Barzal shot one in the net where he, no fakes, no deception, full wrister, high glove, ting. Nice to see, so they got a shot in that series.

He's over $9 million. Yeah. You don't look at him as a nine million dollar uh he stands out like a nine million dollar guy but he doesn't produce like one because he skates exceptionally well exactly he's that's his strength he's a different style guy like in terms of carrying the puck out of his own zone no one has more end-to-end rushes in the league it's him than mcdavDavid in terms of that. So, like, he handles it.

He can single-handedly lug it up the rink. Yeah, I don't see too many highlight reels of him going coast-to-coast. Well, he carries it out but doesn't finish it. Yes, that's what I mean. You know, yeah, he's below a point per game this year. He doesn't make the highlight reel because of it. Yeah. So, you know, he does something unique, but, yeah,

I'd love to see him add that next element onto his game and, you know become a 90 point guy or something you know he's point per game's not going to cut it for nine schmill when they need offense down there breathtaking skater though he is really you know one of the he's a rare make you miss guy one-on-one good luck in the neutral that game we went to with the islanders early in the year and hit him jumping out sitting down there also watching how uh how would a first round knockout on the island go over to carolina is it expected or will will some things get revisited including maybe maybe Lou Lamarillo, who, if I'm not mistaken, is playing out his contract?

Yeah. I don't know. It's interesting. Like, I know expectations. Obviously, they traded for Horvat. They traded for Engvall. They added they wanted to be competitive. Getting a third home gate, I think, matters.

Not that the owners are, you know, hurting for money, but they unveiled this big, new, shiny arena and had a complete last year so i just think they're looking to get some to go deep they don't got to win a cup to satisfy everyone but i think a first round exit would hurt all right what else is tickling your fancy well we got the toronto maple leafs game not tonight, which is painful, I feel like. The energy is really down with this extra day off. For us or for them?

Let's listen to Keefe talk about it. Go, go, go. Let's listen to Keefe on the extra day off. Yeah, I do. First of all, the schedule being what it is is unique. You know, having the day off to travel yesterday a practice day today which in a lot of ways just a chance to regroup and get out and practice some of the things that we you know you've been talking about over the last number of days that you haven't necessarily been able to practice because of the schedule and energy of the players so I think in a lot of ways

it's allowed us to sort of disconnect or I guess unplug from the series for a moment to be able to refocus and recharge for tomorrow. And so that in itself I think is unique and provides some good perspective as we really prepare for tomorrow, which is really to just focus on our game and playing well and not in any of the outside stuff that, you know, doesn't help the situation. We just need to focus on playing a good hockey game.

You know what I hear when I hear that? I hear bet the under. Just two coaches with an extra day to prepare and shut down and tinker and good luck now. Do you think the extra day is more beneficial to tampa than it is toronto or i love that question doesn't matter well you think it affects the old guys most right it gives them an extra day to have that pep it's good for tavarez good for o'reilly good for geo those are some pretty important players not exactly you know they're not old

on the other side but god that fourth line attempt is still annoying they're old i'll be interesting to see if the trend continues for vasilevsky or if he can just find a way to just shut the door and you know his comments about x-ray vision that i can't see through all these bodies if that has an effect I've been told on a number of times that like yes Stamkos is the captain but Vasilevsky completely runs a lot of the show yeah and on that team and in that room and when he talks and when he's upset he will let you know and that's good for them right that's motivation from a star he gets a ton of attention for good reason but he's not scared to to voice his concerns in that room and if he's got him according to the x-ray vision

comment that's an extra day to kind of buckle them down. It could also be the first time you look at Jill, Julian breeze, Boaz deadline and go, boy, the decision to go get Tanner, you know, with all that rather, rather than another D ends up being a significant decision,

right? Where they lose one guy. And all of a sudden it's like, here's Bogosian for 20 minutes a night. They're just there. There wasn't another guy out there that they can give up those type of assets and walk out the door again.

But it doesn't make sense when you lose them as a free agent. At least Tanner is not going anywhere. Our thanks to Jason Bukala, Darren Pang and Steve Valaket. Enjoy your night off of the Leafs and Tampa Bay.

And we're back tomorrow to tee up game five.