Real Kyper & Bourne - Buying In on Bowness

Episode Date: January 18, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee begin with the Ivan Provorov situation in Philly, the decision, the fallout and what the NHL can realistically do to respond. They move on to the Leafs overtime win against the Florida Panthers, the questionable officiating, Radko Gudas's hit on Zach Aston-Reese and five-forward powerplay miscues. Gord Stellick of Leafs Nation joins the show (39:57) to discuss Sheldon Keefe's decision to pull Matt Murray, Morgan Rielly starting to settle down, and his involvement in an upcoming Harold Ballard documentary. They are then joined by Winnipeg Jets coach Rick Bowness (1:12:07), who chats about the Jets' recent play, Josh Morrisey's Norris jump, and his relationship with Blake Wheeler after stripping him of the 'C.'The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. McIntyre, Justin Bourne, Derek Brandeo, Jen Rolnick, Sammy McKee with you for the next two hours. Plenty to get into locally, not locally. Come on locally around the national hockey league we'll get into great detail on the leafs winning a wild game rallying from two goals down to beat the florida panthers 5-4 in overtime gourd stellick will be by in about 45 minutes to get into that as well and in the second hour, Rick Bonas, head coach of the Winnipeg Jets.

One of the leaders in the Western Conference, Winnipeg Jets. I didn't think I'd be saying this middle of January. You know, it's really nice to talk to the head coach of NHL teams. It's just such a delight, you know. Really, really appreciate their PR staff for giving us him. Before we get into all of that,

let's lead with the Philadelphia Flyers. Coach is going to keep his mouth shut. Let's lead with the Philadelphia Flyers beating the Anaheim Ducks. Is that a big story for you? Well, what's a big story around the league, if not worldwide, is not so much what happened during the game, but before the game. Yeah. In which the Philadelphia Flyers defenseman,

Ivan Provorov refused to participate in his team's pride night. And he didn't warm up with them based on the fact that he would have to wear a different Jersey jersey the one that supports the numbers had rainbow colors on and this is uh caught like wildfire for obvious reasons jb the national hockey league in response came out with a statement today let's start with that statement hockey is for everyone is the umbrella initiative under which the league encourages clubs to celebrate the diversity that exists in their respective markets and to work to achieve more welcoming and inclusive environments for all fans

clubs decide whom to celebrate when and how with league council and support players are free to decide which initiatives to support and we continue to encourage their voices and perspectives on social and cultural issues well let's start there sure uh are you happy with that response is that the response that people were expecting today or because i gotta be honest with you, man. You start hearing all the buzzwords around it through social media. Some people opinionated no matter where you are on this.

But there were some talks that they wanted him suspended. They wanted a million- dollar fine on the team we are down to yeah basically players are free to decide which initiatives they want to support are you happy with it i don't think they had much choice yeah it's it's the one that i expected. Outside of that, you run into a lot of issues. Yeah. You know, I would say that my feeling on this doesn't necessarily involve the NHL as a larger entity as much. I do feel like this is, you know, it's lawyered up, protect themselves from any sort of legal issue, separate themselves from... You know, it's just such a half measure to me.

If hockey is for everyone, then, you know, doing nothing about it here doesn't look good, but I don't think they can do anything about it or you're forcing people into doing things you don't want to. And that's why there wasn't anything else but the freedom of choice to decide. Right. And we are, to your point, talking about very strong employment laws.

Right. That talk about religious beliefs and how they can protect somebody working. somebody right so working before this you know we we get into this to an extent where it feels like um protecting proverov or the nhl or the flyers i wrote about this uh should be coming out on sportsnet later today all of these things the the league protecting themselves the team saying you know we're not going to force a guy do a thing he doesn't want to do does not insulate the player from us forming our opinions about the person we've been doing that for a thousand years right and that will continue for a thousand more years correct the court of public opinion which is what we are doing here in live radio i think he's a dingus i think he's a self selfish self-centered yeah short-sighted sure close-minded small

individual yes and and everybody's forming their opinion right but that's no different than that we we've like i've said that's been going on for thousands of years right but we get to see it a little bit more prominent on social media now oh yeah before it was like closed doors and you can get your little groups and you can rip on people what do you think all you want all day long but this one for me uh first of all i was you were waiting for the nhl to respond yeah i don't know if we've heard anything from the players association i think as well i think part of the nhl's response and the flyers response is because it's such that you don't need the players association to weigh in no i disagree that's

your player and i would think that they would come out and support provrov right but he's a paying member that's your guy for the nhl to speak up against they didn't he didn't have to do anything well don't you think they didn't make him do it don't you think part of the cautious um statement that they put out probably has to do with the players association and not wanting to ruffle feathers with them it's like i don't think this is as strongly worded as it potentially could have been for sure i'm sure they're probably worried about the players association and what they would think of them putting out a really because it's a slippery slope it's a dangerous dangerous precedent right so well and does it does it does it force the nhl now to kind of relook and and really understand that if we continue to move

forward whatever sensitive topic or issue that we want to get in front of our our fan base, isn't, we aren't going to have all 800 players possibly agree. Right. So I think you're bringing up a good point here about pregame jerseys and having them all like, for example, military. I think the military pays in a lot of these places for military nights, right?

That's part of it. It's not impossible that of 800 players, there's a couple of guys who don't support the military or doesn't their pacifists or whatever don't support war correct and so they'd say i don't you know so you are is that okay would that be okay i think it'd be the same as pro brav where you say you're free to make that decision we are free to judge you based on that decision and you know for the nhl we are teams will say i don't know if we want a guy like that in our organization and if they feel strongly about the military that may affect them negatively or positively

if you feel strongly about including people and creating a welcoming environment yeah and supporting your teammates maybe look at proverov and say we don't want that guy i think i i look at the way we acted as guys in my era, and we were like sheep. We just followed. You walk in, you see a jersey they want you to wear, you wear it. Not that hard.

Right? Right. They're not cheap anymore. They know. That's good. They know that they don't have to follow anymore. And I'm just wondering now, does it get the NHL to sit there and just not assume that everybody's on board? And I don't know how this played out in Philadelphia,

whether or not ProVrob knew, or did he just walk in the room, see a jersey on, and was there the assumption that he would just put it on and follow the herd? Or did they take their time and say, boys, this is what we want to do. Are you okay with that?

How do you feel about that? Are we all in this together? Are we going to have eight guys wear jersey and and 12 not are we going to be 17 and 3 like let's talk about this i really got the feeling last night and we watched john tortorella address it in the pr that this thing blew up in their face. It did blow up in their face. So I personally don't care whether he was presented with a 10 seconds before warm-up or 10 days because the statement he is making about the people who are welcoming, the Flyers are saying

we're welcoming them and including them in hockey. It doesn't take me. I disagree with you. See, does it take you a long time if I say, do you like this group of people, whether it's a race or whatever? Does it take you time to really consider it and weigh that one out? I'll tell you what. I'll tell you exactly what you need to weigh out is the ramifications and the consequences

of saying yes or no on both sides the philadelphia flyers and proveroff because if you don't it's you're just a do you believe in this or don't believe in it and that's it end of story no no no no no it runs deeper to the point where provrov they've been trying to trade for over a year okay he is considered a top defenseman still right he's in the wheelhouse of being what a mid-20s 26 makes six million dollars shocker guys don't seem to like a lot according to reports from within the team you have an asset guess what you woke up today you have have no asset. He has damaged goods. There isn't a team that would touch him with a 10-foot pole right now. We're talking about different things, you and I.

So to your point, you should figure out what the guys are going to do so you know if you want to move ahead with this from a business perspective rather than a social perspective. Hey, listen. That's a great point. You're paid a lot of money, man. You have a business here. Your responsibility is to protect assets.

I wonder... The Flyers just completely hung themselves out to dry on this one because they didn't think about it, because they weren't prepared. Right. I had heard that they were so pissed, and this is just what I'm hearing out of the building last night. They were so pissed that they told Provorov, you go and tell everybody why you didn't go out on the ice.

Yeah, well, they should. And that's why Tortorella said, I'll do it. Yeah. Well, you know, the question then, so let's say they do it from a business perspective and they say, okay, Provorov doesn't want to go out there because he doesn't like gay people. Well, then are you going to cancel Pride Night to protect the asset? I don't think so. Could you then have a deadline where you have to trade him before?

Do you move Pride Night? Again, at least you give yourself a chance to understand that you may go to Provorov and say here's the here's the consequences okay you by saying you don't want to do this could isolate our community and could isolate uh every other team there do you understand that this could be a career decision. Right. So I see your point about giving him days to really say, hey. Do you understand here of what's at stake for you? Okay? Yeah.

Now. Good point. You want to go down that path? Then you are welcome to go there. That is your right. Yeah. But if it gets really ugly here and I can't even use you and 30 or one other teams, then stay home and I guess we'll pay you, but I can't use you anymore.

It's a turning point moment for sure. It's a turning point moment. And say what you will about, you're not in the political belief business. You are in winning Stanley Cups, making money for your owner business first. That second one for sure. Okay. Yep.

And to watch this unfold the way it did and not thoroughly go through this on both sides. And again, at least if you would have addressed it with each and every player to to to make their decision and give them ample time to understand the consequences of a yes or a no to participate i don't think that that's what happened last night yeah there are no consequences of the yes to participate but there are the no is pretty substantial isn't that like proverov's life is different today justifiably so um so yeah the organization has their hands full about how to deal with it going forward now with him whether they will speak out more strongly or take action otherwise all the platitudes and the and the census this was more of a flyerer, Philadelphia flyer night than it was a league night.

But it really, I think, forces everybody to revisit and really, really present to the players, you know, where you are in certain things. This is where we're going. Where are you? Yeah. And you better be crystal clear what side you want to be on. So we know, you know, and the want to be on so we know you know and the whole world will judge as we know they have for a thousand years yeah and that's the way it is it uh you know i did have in my group chat with some guys they were like did the nhl

not think that among 700 and some skaters someone would not want to wear a jersey of a number of these things you know you mentioned it's pride night or military night or all the different things and this one i i don't know how much more you guys have on it but like him with the religious stuff that's okay but you know i think it i know a ton of people who are really religious people who are super open-minded and you know towards gay people and towards whatever community and that sort of thing you can't go there sammy i just i'm just saying i know it's It's just, it's for him to say. Once someone says religious, you're right. It's another employment level of,

Proveroff lives with his girlfriend. He's clearly not like hardcore orthodox. That's what I mean. Anyways, it's just like, I just, he, him kind of putting that out there. The law is the law. I don't know. Right.

I get that. I understand that element of it that the team has to consider that you can't just say, do it, you know, and again,

someone's religious beliefs or whatever, but again, it doesn't prevent people from making opinion, forming opinions based on the beliefs you've chosen. Okay. Okay. All good. Okay.

My end. Okay. Want to move on? Let's, let's segue into what maybe I thought was the worst officiated game I've seen in 20 years. Wow. Bold. Awful.

You hated it too, eh? Horrific. And I'm not the guy who rips on officials. That is a fact. I'm not the guy. You're not. I's say that i'm not the guy you're not i don't sit here no time on reps here sometimes you are the officials guy sometimes i rip on here and there i'm officiating um okay all right um we going to stay on it? Because I'm going to call an audible here, and we're not going to Sheldon Keefe for our first Kippers Clipper, but Paul Maurice on his overview of what he saw last night.

Well, there will always be penalties that you take in your game here, and there's a whole bunch you're not going to like at all. I thought we had the inordinate share of those. Hard to describe the call. Usually at least they have enough there to argue, come over and say, yeah, the stick got up, or the Radko Gutis hits as clean a hit as you can level, stick on stick, body on body.

A lot of charge. They're both going in the same direction. No problem with the guy going to the net at all. That's hockey. I don't know what the hell those guys were doing tonight, but it wasn't Florida Panther friendly. I don't know what the hell

those guys were doing tonight. That's a fine. No, it's not. No? No. The officials are so bad that Paul Maurice has some grace here. He gets a green light. I wonder if that can be true that they can be so bad that they're at least he had a point yeah no no no he's got a point yeah he's got a point how if you are the who's the the officiating the boss of the officiate officiating

the rest welcome how are you walking what how are you welcome how are you how are you watching that game back and you see them put a man in the penalty box go over there have a conversation pull him out and put the other guy in the penalty box and still get the wrong guy how do you watch that as a boss and be like yeah you know what i think i think paul marie's is way off with his comments here he was bang on they were horrible that's such a bad look that was embarrassing that one That one. That one was embarrassing. I mean, they had tough nights. And it was Engvall should have got a penalty. Engvall shot the stick back to

the goalie. And their guy, was it Bennett, also hit the stick. Bennett was not a penalty. Yeah. I mean, but he did move the stick. I agree. He did. He did move it, but there was no... Not like he was directing it towards or away. a player with a puck or

you know anybody tripped on it even if someone pushes it so he didn't step on it if anything but you you can't shovel a stick to a goalie with your stick and lilligran's like and then put lilligran in there him me you her him him him her uh the uh the gudas hit a charge while defending a russian player reese yeah if that's a legitimate call i'm never covering hockey ever again kip's doing pickleball never i'm doug mclean on pickleball and uh and brown socks with sandals. That's my life. Maurice is miserable too. Well, stick. I mean, he nailed it in that clip. The guy's got the puck in his

stick. He's going towards the net. How do you charge a guy you're chasing? Shoulder to shoulder contact separates the man from the puck. That's kind of the point of the game, isn't it? It's been amateur hour at its best. Okay. Let's do all the Maurice clips.

Okay. Are we done with the ribbon on the officials? No, they're all on the officials. Okay. All right. Let's go. Give us the overview, whichever one.

Yeah. You know, what proud of our guys here tonight. Like they flew us out to the West coast, flew us back, flew us home, flew us up here and back to back us. And then they threw those two guys at us.

I think we hung in there pretty good. I'm proud of our group. Then they throw those two guys at us, and then play the third clip if we can. What's your message in a game like that? So many penalties in the first two periods, and then the whistles seem to go away. What's your advice to your players? No, I just explained to them it had nothing to do with my players.

It had to do with me and a relationship that I have with one of the referees. That's what that was all about. So just go out, keep your mouth shut, and play the game. That's a Paul Maurice Joker laugh, like an unhinged. Who was the other coach earlier in the year that suggested that it's a Toronto thing? Was that Daryl Sutter? It was Sutter, yeah. So now it's Sutter and Paul Maurice.

Maurice, by the way way got thrown out of a game by uh Saint Laurent is it Francois Saint Laurent in uh 2016 and uh when asked about Saint Laurent laughing at him as he threw him out he said well I think that's a you know consistent with that official's no you're not you're not suggesting that last night had anything to do with that like a personal vendetta Maurice did Maurice did maurice i know but how about you uh no i think it's just bad official yeah i just think it's like a bad it's like i'm gonna go get paul maurice from that thing six years ago but i'm gonna i'm gonna put my i'm gonna put my career in jeopardy yeah uh and my reputation in jeopardy so i can make him look bad never

never no one would ever do that. But how? I just think of a couple Tim Peel moments over the years that maybe. That's fine. But that's gray and you can hide it and you can mask it. But those are just so horrific calls that that's all that people look at. Can I ask how the hell does it not play into it like if you hate a guy you hate a guy well if you're trying to call the game and do your job yeah but if you're an official yeah it's not that yeah well it seems like there's

something there you're not you're not putting your livelihood on the line for personal reasons. Of course not. But you're a human being. You have natural needs. You have natural biases. Bunting. Bingo. Okay?

Not getting calls because they think that he plays them. And that's okay. That's human. Right? Yeah. plays them and that's okay that's human right yeah and that wouldn't necessarily be one guy by the way sammy these guys are a team they talk to each other they scout for each other uh they this is when you talk about guys that have reputations for diving or embellishing that's not one guy that's the league forming an opinion on a guy that cannot be trusted no i listen i just think that if he's saying this stuff they had a prior moment he's probably coached a million games that he's reffed in there's something there but since

then i'm surely they've worked through this right like they've had doesn't seem like they have it is funny they did the interference call on marner too at the blue line like i get there's there's interference and guys but they just he like just collided yeah well they had to they had to call it because it was three in a row to the Leafs, so they couldn't give the next one, and then it was borderline. Okay. Game management. I am not allowed to talk about referee calls the rest of the year.

I just threw up all over this table. I am not that guy. Oh, Sammy did ask before the show. I pride myself on being not that guy. And he said, do you think the officiating now is worse than it's ever been and i said no and i think this comes up every year your thought uh there's some issues there for sure they're trying hard i think at times that they're uh fast tracking young players there's a big issue here guys on officials how many young kids want to get into them how many

can they groom that that played the game that can have a feel for the game there's there's some issues going on here is there any parallels here fellas between the lack of canadian goaltending and the lack of good referees like who would want to be a goalie who would want to be a ref in the social media era like honestly yeah who would be a ref you're you're you're onto something there for sure i just i can't imagine going out there and make it like i'm sure they're you know well compensated or whatever but you're on the road everyone hates you all the time they're not like making a million dollars you know they're making a good salary but geez oh it's a great life it is is? Get the summers off. It's no while you get spat at a couple times. Big deal.

Go into every barn. Your summer's off. He's hated by 20,000 people 80 times a year. Every night. Just getting screamed at. Great. What a life. You suck.

We got any Keef? We got lots of Keef. What do you want? I don't know. What do you have? Was that the weirdest game you've ever been a part of? He was asked after the game last night. All right, let it rip.

Do you have the answer to that? We've had some odd moments. I don't know. There's a lot going on in the game for sure. I don't know that. I don't know if I put it at the top of the list necessarily, but certainly there's a lot going on in the game. Happy our guys stuck with it and found a way to get our points.

I would say where the goalie who was a Zamboni driver who was employed by the team went into a game and beat them. Maybe a little bit weirder. Maybe the game where they lost and counted five minutes into a game against the Montreal Canadiens in a playoff series. There's no fans in the building. Maybe that was a little weirder. Yeah, I think you nailed the same. You only remember what you had for breakfast in the morning. Come on.

An entertaining game. Absolutely. Good hockey game to watch. A little, some passion, some emotion, which was fantastic. I was going to say, let's bring it back a little bit here. That was a good game for the Leafs last night. No, it was a fun game. It was not a good game. Great game for the Leafs last night. No, it was not a good game. Great game for the Leafs.

Not just good. No. Great. No. Yes. Really, really, really, really good. No, it was a horrible game. It was really, really good.

Yes. It was a fun game. No, but it was important for the reason that you're going to like, is that they came together. They came together in a way. Aston Reese tried to punch Gutis. Yes. Michael Bunting tried to beat up a guy okay you've got me on that yes they had each other's back they rallied good parts to it

for sure one of those mid-season games to me you're like i'm with you it was fun it was fun yeah but if i'm watching that game it's not tight i'm watching that game i'm watching two get two teams going nowhere fast no it's it's not the Boston Bruins. But it's okay. It's mid-January, and you can draw certain things from it, and I'm with you. Yeah. That I liked a different look out of the Leafs.

Hunt goes to the net and kicks one in. Willie's in the crease and headbutts one in. Are we okay with just living that certain guys will just take two, three shots at Austin Matthews, and you just hope that somebody comes in will just take two three shots at austin matthews and you just hope that somebody comes in this is the you get two freebies he gets mad in the third and then bunting jumps you after that just pass that austin just can't turn around and throw a punch he did trip him it was a great trip got him right under the foot total great absolutely great trip you're right though it'd be nice to see him okay forget hand on the stick. We're not focusing on that. What we're focusing on is how quickly Bunting got in there.

He did. And it was what, Cousins? Yeah. He was a great player. So that was a nice look. It was. I felt that there was an answer. And actually, Sheldon Keefe, I think we have a quote on that.

Is there not? Is that part of the overview? On the physicality? Physicality? Sure. Yeah. Play the physical game. We'll see that one.

You know, we had a lot of respect for their offense and how they were going to come at us. There's a lot of skill over there. They moved the puck very well. I think the physicality piece is something that I think that they probably turned up a notch or two tonight. And I thought our guys dealt with it well, whether it was the stuff during the play

or stuff after whistles, whatever it is, that our guys handled that well. They also handled the emotions of all the penalties and, you know, the oddities of the game. We dealt with that well and just stayed with it. So, you know, you never want to get behind like we did, you know, but we look at the picture or look at the game, excuse me, big picture and step back a little bit.

Power play wasn't nearly good enough for us early in the game. Yet gets us a huge goal that ends up turning the game. And, you know, I thought we had a really good third period. We saw Gudis, I think, hip check, Engvall, which I thought was a good hit. Fine hit. But the important thing is, is Austin Reese didn't like it. Yeah. Which was fantastic.

Can I ask you, Kipper? We were talking about this a little bit on the postgame last night. What are you thinking if you're Gutis' teammate there? When a non-tough guy, after you throw... Listen, I don't think it was dirty. I don't think it was a dirty hit, but it was borderline. It was greasy. You got really low on him yeah and zach aston reese who's not a tough guy yeah challenges him and i thought it was pretty embarrassing for gudas like i know

they got the power play can i tell you before kipper talks i thought watching that last night i i thought today that kipper would say he liked it from Gutis. I thought it was, I hated it from Gutis. And you are correct. Am I? Yes, you are. How can you say? I'll tell you why. No, because if that was Giordano or anybody else in the Leafs,

he'd be like, oh, he should have dropped them immediately. Come on. Pie hole, close. Come on. For a second here, okay? You're the Florida Panthers. You won the President's Trophy, and you are within whiskers of a huge embarrassment

by missing the playoffs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're up 4-2 at that point, and you just drew him into a penalty. You make it 5-2, the game is over, okay? And you're fighting for your lives to get back into a playoff race. If you go up 5-2 and you start distancing yourself then you're mr goudas goes back to austin reese before the night is over and go now it's your time we've got some unfinished business here buddy yeah and where are you now yeah and also with gudas there's no doubt that he's a willing combatant right it's not like someone surprised me last night but i mean he's not a

guy you want to go call his bluff the cards four two handing barkov come on power play he's running around all night acting like a dick sticking people nailing people acting like this tough guy and then one of those bottom six guys who's never dropped his gloves all year except for once challenges him, and he goes down to a knee like, that was embarrassing. You're putting the ego ahead of the team here, Sammy, in that instance.

I thought it was embarrassing. I know. Well, it's embarrassing that you lost the game and you never got a chance to go back to Aston Reese. I get that. The plan would have been, it's funny watching Gudis watch the, they showed Gudis watching the replay and Aston Reese misses with a wild one

at one point. And all I could think was like, they're, they're probably not done. Like Gudis is probably going to have something to say to him before it's over. But yeah, physical game.

Power play did save the night too. for six he said yeah i think so but i don't know sometimes it looks ugly sometimes they can't win a face-off in the offensive zone they start with a minute and a half on the clock um and then they give up another shorthanded goal yeah m. Marner struggled in the first. Yeah. Can I ask you guys a question? How many shorties is too many before you say not every unit does that? Go ahead, Sam.

Two so far, right? That they've given? Two or three. Yeah, two, I think. So going into last night, since they went to the five forward power play, which I guess, I mean, they had that one game where they kind of put Riley out there. They've done it.

But since it's mainly started on December 17th, what do you think it ranks in the NHL? Where does their power play rank? Since December, since they went to 5-1. Yeah, but where was it ranked since they went? That's what I'm asking you. Where do you think it ranks since they went to 5-1? Well, I don't know. By then it would have been 11th, 12th in the league.

No, no, no. He means if you started on that day, every team in the league from that day. I bet you it's the same percentage as it was prior to that. I feel the same way. No better, no worse. No better, no worse. So I don't know what it was. They're eighth in the NHL since they've gone to the five-man.

And what were they before that? They were ninth or tenth anyways. So there you go. It hasn't changed much. But I will say, NHL.com sorts a net power play when you take away the goals you're giving up the other way, and it probably looks worse with the give-up, whether it's two or three shorties, right?

I think two. Two shorties, and then that's over, I don't know, 10 games or whatever they've been trying it. Their season average is 24.8, and since they've gone to the five forward unit, it's 26.8. Yeah. So it's gone up 2%. And, you know, Marner loses the puck at the blue line and then really takes a high-risk last-ditch attempt to throw the puck across the middle of the ice. You seldom make them see bad decisions.

No, that's why he's there, because he makes good decisions. You eat it on the wall, and you don't give up a shorty there. But, I mean... If you have a D-man, they think of defensive things, but these guys are out there for a reason. You can't even count on three fingers how many bad plays this guy's made all year. No, you're not going to bury him for that one,

but it is part of the risk of having a forward there instead of a D-man. Should we talk about the goalie getting pulled? Oh, yeah. We need three shows worth of time today. Yeah, we're going to talk about that, and let's go to Sheldon on that decision. I mean, when I break down the goals,

you know, I mean, when I break down the goals, you know, I mean, obviously, like, the shorthanded goal against, he makes the save on a breakaway, and there's not a lot he can do or anything he can do, really, on the second shot. You know, the goal that I ended up pulling him on, it's a big-time shot by Barkoff. You know, it's just more, for me, more pulling the goaltender for our team. You just need to change

something. You can't give up four goals on eight shots. I don't know how you shake it out, but that was really it. You look at the actual goals and all that, I don't know. I didn't see, I think, any of the goals are too egregious or weak or anything like that

there's some traffic and things involved inside of each of those goals but um clearly we need to change something and Sammy went in and did a really good job and we had a couple breakdowns big saves got the crowd into it give the guys some life and reason to keep pushing and we did he kind of says i did it for the team and then he said four and eight shots no no no no no so but there is a real sense that he just wants to protect him so much who has he done this with before i feel like he has like guys was it campbell last year maybe a few years ago yeah like he's he has goalies he really hesitates to throw in the box which is fine you pull a goalie they're not the end of the world they're not like china dolls no they're players okay they won't crack they won't they say he stunk yeah and he needs to be

better it's okay he's a pro he can handle it there's a slap shot that came from the guy's stick almost hit the wall on the backswing from the hash marks and he beat him far side glove didn't didn't like the first one either i know the ref gets in the way the high glove shot yeah but like he's deep in the net he does that sort of like well he's i think he's just over it's like he's always about to smother a spider he's like ready to cover it up to get that right now yes it's like a downward facing claw it might rain tomorrow it's like he's he's one or two moves ahead but the one or two moves ahead is the puck catching part never happen they never happen right so yeah not good but high high glove is is a concern it is major concern so i but okay can we just have a quick conversation that's the book

on every goalie in the nhl i know murray it's been talked about more but like where is a lot of the heat maps for goalies you know why a lot of goalies get beat high glove all the time because that's where guys are trying to go all the time no he's weaker there though for sure no doubt yeah he is don't get me wrong but like a lot of guys are shooting for high gloves if you look at a lot of goalie stats they probably aren't very good but a lot of guys have not struggled like he has in the last what three years so i looked at goalie polls per team i had sportsnet stats pull that up and i tweeted about it last night the leafs uh just joined the group of teams that has only done it once this season so they did it once for injury uh shalgren went in for hurt samson this is the first goalie a pull for performance 42 games into the year or whatever

um you know some teams eight six six five five four like there's you know you get the goalie out give your team a boost whatever i couldn't believe after the third goal that this guy didn't get so hard for him so resistant to pulling the goalie by way, only one team in the NHL this year has not pulled their goalie. Tampa Bay. Not Tampa Bay. Yes, yes, yes. Really?

Not even one, Yank. Not once? Nope. Vasilevsky just goes in and stops it. You look at both their goalies. If Vasilevsky's in there, he just plays the whole game. And if Brian Elliott goes in... They're like, we don't care if he goes at 12.

15? He's standing in that. I will say that Samsonov came in and he saved the game. It was awesome. He didn't make a ton of saves, but all his saves were like really clutch big saves. Like I said, they go up 5-2. It's over. So Sammy makes a couple of big saves.

They get a win. Is there any momentum there? No, we're not yet, eh? We've got Rick Bonus in the second hour. It'll be great to hear from him. I think a couple of losses, Sammy, coming in. They're going to be a little... Tomorrow's going to be awesome.

There's going to be a little miff coming in. This is Grease Week, boys. The Bruins was a nasty one last night. It was a little bit weird. Then we've got the Jets coming in. It's always a nasty game. Samsonov, start that one? Absolutely.

There might be a second team here without a goalie pull. It might be Winnipeg. Can't find them on my list. Anyway. Halibook's. Okay. Yeah, he's been pretty good this year. Yeah.

There's a few guys having career years in Winnipeg. The Winnipeg defensive numbers for the team look better. Like top 10 in the league too not just the goaltending you wonder if paul maurice is looking at the jets going this doesn't look good for me is this samsonov's small window based on the pull last night to get in there and maybe shut a door for the next little while would winnipeg would a sound effort lead him i'm afraid to say this because every time i'm like oh if he has a good game tonight then maybe he gets to and then they like last night i was like oh maybe if murray goes tonight maybe he goes against thursday and then he stinks

to bed so i don't know i think if you're looking at the two goalies samsonov has nudged ahead a little bit i guess right. Right? I guess. They still want Murray to be the guy. Murray has the contract and the cachet. Yeah. You know. For sure. He's going to get the benefit of the doubt.

He is going to get the benefit of the doubt. But if you don't see a long stretch, there will always be that seed of doubt against your benefit of the doubt it's true yeah and i guess at the end of the day they're just going to play the guy who's playing better yeah time for more you want to save these clips for the end of the show oh yeah we're going to go to break here we got gorge stellick plenty more on the toronto maple leafs and like we said uh rick bonus who has done a tremendous job for the winnipeg jets will be joining us in the second hour. You are watching and listening to Real Kipper and Born.

Alright, we're just waiting on Gord Stelic, the host of Leaf Nation pre- and post-game. Always fun having Stelic-tricity on the show. He's almost like a third host, depending on how you consider Sammy here. Yeah, I always thought of an uncle. I don't think that's offensive. I think that's complimentary.

Yes. Uncle Gord. How are you, pal? How are you? We're good. How are you? You're a good little boy, Nick. Thank you.

Thank you, Uncle Gordy. Tell me a story, Uncle Gordy, about the Leafs getting a little grittier and tougher, standing up for each other a little bit more than maybe what we're accustomed to. Is that what we've seen in the last couple of games? Yeah. Well, like when your great-grandfather used to take me to the old Conn Smythe games back

then, you know, if you can't beat him in the alley, you can't beat him on the ice. I think, you know, I think you've been an advocate for it as well. I know some people right away will roll their eyes, but I've liked seeing Wayne Simmons in a couple of games of late, you know, just about that, you know, that little X factor and, you know, what went on in Boston and that. And he kind of, you know, when the guy went after Bunting and he kind of agreed with it and all of a sudden there's Wayne Simmons.

And it shows that that's still needed from time to time. But the other one, to your point, yeah, and it seems like Michael Bunting's a guy that's really figured that out, that the best way for him to continue to have success and thrive is to buy into that role. So yeah, there's been a little bit more, and I like it. You know, it doesn't have to necessarily be fighting all the time, but it was nice to see. You know, you're obviously not going to see it from everyone.ie neilander is a guy last night who makes a big difference

without being involved in too much of the physical stuff but nice to see that he's able to have success within that sort of hockey game yeah yeah and you're you're 100 right justin about it doesn't have to be fighting i mean it's different things that i know and again this is the art this argument discussion whatever you want to talk about it. And whether you want to talk, let's use the word toughness. And one thing that's interesting is Brendan Shanahan would be the perfect type of player to have still in 2023, just like he would have been in, you know, 2010 or whatever.

But he maintains that, you know, toughness can be Patrick Kane or Mitch Marner just not being able to catch them, exhausting the other team by playing that kind of style. And that's a little bit how Willie Nylander can contribute as well. You know, you can't expect a guy to do a 180 and be – you want him to be what he is. And right now he's having his best goal-scoring season so far with the Maple Leafs. And it's good to see after so-so two periods that he could come up with the big goal. I mean, that was a big game.

That was a real entertaining game. And Willie was a big part of it. And he seems to be having fewer and fewer of those streaks where you go, where the hell's Willie gone the last three, four, five, six games? He hasn't had as many of those. All in agreement, a fun game to watch last night. But earlier in the show, we were talking about perhaps another seed of doubt on the goaltending situation

Samsonov came in and did a nice clean up job but a couple of things I want to ask you number one is is there a real concern for Matt Murray once again and why does it appear that it's so hard for Sheldon

Keefe to pull goalies you know it is a foreign concept right Why does it appear that it's so hard for Sheldon Keefe to pull goalies? You know, it is a foreign concept, right? He's the opposite of your guy, Mike Keenan. Captain Hook. Who was the Captain Hook of coaches. And I think it was the first cup that the Hawks won, which was their second one with Corey Crawford.

I remember there was all this kind of doubt about Corey Crawford throughout the playoffs in his glove hand or whatever. And, I mean, he answered the critics, right? He gave them good enough goaltending, really good goaltending, to win the Stanley Cup. And that's what Matt Murray's going to have to do as well. Because I don't know if you'll call them doubters or not, but certainly, and I know a lot was made, and Elliot was talking about about it about a certain

thing that's been picked up but i'm sure the least people pick it up too and he can correct it a technique wise i i can't i i'm not i don't know the minutiae well enough to uh to weigh in on that or not but but yeah i i still it it is unproven goaltending it is it is not vasilevsky uh it's was not even lenis Allmark right now. It's not a bunch of guys when you're talking. But like Colorado showed last year, whatever that good enough goaltending gets, that's just what you want to get when you're in the playoffs and hope to get. And I still – I've got to say I'm still pleased with what I've seen.

I remain – I don't know if I was a skeptic. Skeptic's the right word. But yeah, I'm wondering, and we still need to see it bear fruit in the playoffs as well. So certainly last night wasn't a good night in that regard with Matt Murray. It was a concerning game, but I'm not at the concerned state right now. Did we ever find out last night's telecast who's, like, texting Elliot on the goalie that's been,

he's leaning too much. Like, are we talking about Trek check here? Or are we talking about his mailman? Yeah. Would it be Merrick? I don't know. Would it be? I don't know.

Or his mailman. Yeah. Yeah. Gosh. Gosh. Gord, it's 2-2 in the playoffs, in a playoff series, Tampa Bay and Toronto. It's 2-2 in the game, second period.

What are the odds the five-forward power play goes over the boards? Is this a real, serious, viable power play group that you expect to see in the big situations? Well, I'm trying to because, you know, Sheldon Keith gets a little testy about it and says well you know people they score shorthanded goals against teams with just one or two d or beliefs or any other team when they have one or two d on a power play which is true so i'm trying to think that like i seem to be extra sensitive when i watch it i go okay see

here's the perils of it here's the perils of it going the other way. As far as, you know, I know a lot's being made about Mitch Marner can be a good two-way player, and they've got some players that are good two-way players, but it's just a whole different animal, particularly if you're usually the one person back, and it's a pretty speedy guy likely coming down on you. So I still prefer not. I still prefer not. I would like to think, whether it's Morgan

Riley or whomever, probably him. But I guess if it's based on merit, then you have a bit of a problem. If, say, you don't have a defenseman you can put out there, that's not a good thing. And OK, you're going to live and die with the 5D. Because you're going to die if you don't get by the first round of the playoffs. So that's up for Sheldon Keith and others to decide. But I would prefer not. Your turn. Sorry. Sorry.

Is it? No, it's me. I think it's me. Yeah. Well, you're bored, Kipper. I don't know. I just. What the hell?

You know what? I was just thinking if I had to bring anything home today after the show for my wife. Rotisserie chicken. All right. Back to work. Hey, Morgan Riley. There are times when we saw him on the power play last night. Better for me.

Just in terms of, you know, he did take a lot of heat in the last week and a half, two weeks scored since he's been back, but looked a lot more comfortable last night, didn't he? Yeah. Yeah. I'm big on him. I'm really, I'm really always been big on Morgan Riley. So I thought he did as well. Like I, I, I, I believe he can be, he can be the guy. And I, and I'll, you know, last couple of years, you'd never known. And certainly in his case, he had one season, you know, that you knew about half the year, he was battling some kind of injury and when you're not playing 100 as you would as you guys would well

know uh that that's a big big that's a big big problem to deal with but yeah i i like the way they play like he's not a norris guy and that's the thing i mean you don't have the stud defenseman like the victor headman or you know or the kale mccarr or you know that a lot of stanley cup teams have but you have what washington you can have what washington had a little bit more by committee like the Victor Hedman or, you know, or the Kale McCarr, that a lot of Stanley Cup teams have. But you have what Washington, you can have what Washington had a little bit more by committee. You know, Gord, we had an interesting situation last night where Paul Maurice comes out after the game and says,

you know, all that officiating, all those calls against my team, he said he told his team, it wasn't about what was going on in the ice, but about his relationship with that referee. We had a little discussion about it earlier. How common is it that a relationship with a coach and a referee will actually affect the calls being made on the ice? Well, you know, it's funny.

The answer is, Justin, that I don't know, but let's put it into perception is reality situation, right? Right. So maybe does it happen? Or because like, I certainly know, like you knew certain coaches and they go, oh, crap, we got so-and-so. And it, you know, it just, it's like a lot of people in life, like it's, the words are supposed to just, you know, you're supposed to forget it, move on.

But, you know, people, some people, it sinks a little bit more and they hold grudges and they're pissed. And I am sure, just like baseball umpires with certain managers, I am sure that they're only human. And I think it can be a legitimate complaint at times. But even if it's not legitimate, your perception is that that's what's going on. So, you know, and Paul Bar Maurice has been around a long time, and I think he's a pretty measured, reasonable guy.

You know, that it's not, you know, I mean, it's funny, one of the ones that was toughest on the rest, but they all liked him, was Pat Quinn. Man, he never let up chirping the whole time at the referees on the ice. But I think that could be a part of it. But it's a dangerous, and again, I think he walked it okay. You've had a lot of guys coming to Toronto, you know, saying some solvos. I mean, Sheldon Keith gets fined $25,000, and other guys just throwing a little bit

of a zinger out. Daryl Sutter did it as well, and being able to walk away with their pocketbook intact. That's two guys that historically are up there with the most wins in NHL history as head coaches here. A third one, people are going to start talking. Are they not? Oh, I know. I know. Yeah. Just, yeah, I, I agreed. Agreed. You know, it just kind of, I don't, did they get cut more, but I also think they knew what not exactly to say what,

what the button is that, that all of a sudden, okay, gotcha. They just alluded enough is maybe the way it got interpreted. But it seems to be the place to do it, right? You know what? It must mean the Leafs are good if they're talking conspiracy theory again. Right. Historically,

I think the Leafs over the past five years or something, they're one of the least penalized teams in the NHL, but they also draw the least penalties. So I think, I don't know, I just can't imagine where that reputation would have come from, particularly that they're a pretty clean team, I think, by and large. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's, and I mean, I just, like, I remember running, like there'd be a guy like, okay, like Paul Stewart would talk about how much he loved reffing in Toronto or Montreal, right?

I don't know if refs still feel that way. He even said he loved calling a penalty shot against the home team, right? It just got him going. But, I mean, nowadays, I'd be really, really surprised. The other part with the – like us as fans anymore, you know, we don't know the flamboyant Paul Stewart. We don't know three-hour Merrill Welling. You know, we don't know Andy Van Helleman, the kind of game.

But just because there's tandem, it doesn't really resonate. So they don't get the notoriety, you know, good, bad from the fans, but certainly at that level and something. And, man, oh, man, so I obviously I'd be curious to find out more, and maybe someday we'll find out more from someone around Paul Maurice. You can find out why a certain grudge. But I got to tell you, I always like talking to coaches evaluating referees. You know, you talk to whatever, just along the way.

I always liked, in general, I thought they would give, because they're down there in the trenches about, you know, who they feel is a quality referee and who they feel is lacking. We're talking to Gord Stelik, Leaf Nation pre- and post-game, former general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Sheldon Keefe, Gord, insinuated that he pulled Matt Murray less about what was going on with him and maybe a little bit more on just getting a reaction out of his team.

If he's true to that, then put him back in against Winnipeg on Thursday night. Yeah, good point. Good point. What do you think? Yeah, I'd be okay with it. Like I'm, I know, I know like, and,

and, and part of it is because you, you guys have the ultimate hockey talk. People can talk hockey forever. I love doing it. I think sometimes, you know, we can get into the minutia that,

you know, not neither goaltenders established that they're the guy and the other person, you know, these, so it's, so it's a feeling out process that I, that for the rest of the regular season

unless something changes. But I'd be okay putting him back in, especially if that's what he said. I thought he, hey, he wasn't sharp, okay? He wasn't sharp until he got that tip from Elliot that he was leaning wrong. I think he was sitting straight on the bench after. Did you notice that?

He was sitting straight. So maybe that's all worked out. I'm telling you, if it's true, on the next show, Elliot should be sitting in one of those couches on the side and then just bring his source on the panel. You're unbelievable. You're unbelievable.

I know. Any thoughts on Bobby McMahon sticking with the team? I kept writing to ask you if you liked him last night. You like him? Every time he goes in, every time he's along the walls, he just looks like a big body that's not afraid to get in. Gord, your thoughts? Yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, who was it years ago?

Was it like Stuart Percy, right? I mean, he was a defenseman. I know that. And he was a kid. But I remember he was one of the three stars a couple of times, and then he was gone, right? So, you know, there's this initial thing that you hesitate to make a you know go over the the big proclamation but i've liked him i'm like you i was so disappointed yet he didn't get that goal i loved that his dad

and then it got uh you know and so yeah he's he's you know i i like those kind of stories and and i like what he's brought and a little bit of that grit that you've talked about. And it is still, you know, it's still a feeling out process for third and fourth line guys. I mean, it's not like a lot of them are making us jump through hoops with joy. Oh, what do you think Kipper? I'm done with them. All right. Hey, jump, jump, me jumping through hoops. Probably did it. Probably did it. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, Kipper, do you have to take up anything on the way home? No, but you want to come over for some rotisserie chicken later on?

Well, some other time. Some other time. I'm involved in that Ballard documentary. Oh, wow. Okay. Then we're not going to let you go because I'm very curious. Tell me more. Yeah.

Tell us about it um this is my era of growing up with harold ballard as the owner of my favorite team this is can't miss television for me here gordon tell us about it yeah i'll tell you well you know and again it's done from you know jason priestly and a producer named michael gettys but that their eyes and of course they're the ones that tell the story. I've got to tell you guys, they did a wonderful job. Wonderful job. They dug up so much footage. And, you know, about – and he knew that you couldn't –

Did we lose him? Did we lose him? The ghost of Harold Ballard cut off his mic. What happened? We lost Gord. And this is the only part I really cared about is the last 15 minutes. Because I wasn't even paying attention to him. Because my wife was sending me, you know, a list.

Are we calling him back? Yeah, I can call him. Yeah, call him back. Valor, is that the name of the doc? Ballard? Ballard, Ballard. I don't know. Ballard, I don't know. Ballard. Ballard. Valor. I don't know. Ballard.

I don't know. Ballard's Valor. He was, he wouldn't last five seconds in today's world. No. With his views and his thoughts. Not five seconds. Tima.

Well, I didn't get into it. Nothing I say can benefit me or the show. But yes, I am very excited to, you know, I didn't get into it. Nothing I say can benefit me or the show. But yes, I am very excited to, you know, I came to Toronto 10 years ago and I have followed, you know, the Leafs, they're everywhere. You kind of know what's going on, but I'm not up on the ballot. All right, we got Gord.

Okay, Gord, you were at the part where you said that they had amazing footage of you getting Harold a coffee. Not quite that. You know, he, he owned the, well, he owned Maple Leaf. He was a larger shareholder, Maple Leaf gardens limited. So he owned the team by virtue of that. It's for, it's what, for 18 years. You know, it's a huge chunk of time that there's a, you know,

it's a really, it's a very interesting story about a guy that it should have been the house that Smythe built forever. And that all changed and explains all that. And, you know, the one thing, so it's very, very entertaining. It also explains why the Leafs never really, why they never won. And, you know, I worked there. I still, he gave me a great opportunity working there. So I always appreciate that. But, and I also, I always say, I don't, Kipper, he gave me a great opportunity working there. So I always appreciate that.

But, and I also, I always say, I don't, Kipper, did you ever meet him? Oh, yes. Yeah. So did you not think he was a nice guy when you met him? You know what? There was always that, that, that, that charitable side that he only brought out when he wanted to. And, but there was always something inside of him that was there, right? Yeah, yeah.

So I just meant, but usually people's first reaction would be, geez, what a nice guy kind of thing. Oh, yeah. And he really did have that side. I don't think that side comes out enough. Like, you can't make an argument about, like, I'll argue the teacher's pension fund were terrible owners, but people couldn't give a damn about that. You know, I go, they were terrible. All they cared about was the

bottom line, but they stayed away. You can't argue pro-Harold Ballard owning the Maple Leafs, and I never try to make that argument. It's sort of like, which way do you want to get executed, okay? Neither's any good. But I'll tell you, there was never a dull day there, and you got, like, guys like Daryl Sittler and Lanny McDonald and Wendell Clark and Gary Lehman and Ricky Vive and just a lot of people that were around then. It's a really neat story. And for people that are younger, it's a real neat story. Because if you're a sports fan, like did you see the Al Davis one they had,

Al Davis and Pete Roselle? I love those. I love whether George Steinbrenner era with the Yankees, March shot with the Reds, you know, and thank God we've moved on from that era in many, many ways. But the teams were still mom and pop, almost mom and pop variety stores back then compared to the big corporate conglomerates they are now. So Michael Geddes is the main producer and Jason Priestley then put it all together.

I thought they did a really good job. I think people are really going to enjoy it. So social cue aside, if he was an owner of an NHL team today, would he be at the bottom of a salary cap or at the very top? We'd be at the bottom of the salary cap. We had a salary cap

and there was no cap. You know? So it would be, yeah. Again, but you know what, which doesn't get brought up, like he lost a lot of money on the Hamilton Tiger Cats. Like the CFL really owes this guy. And Don Crump, who was the treasurer, got to be commissioner because, you know, Bauer left them alone they got in four great cups, they won one

you know, so it's a very complex individual he lived there, like his apartment was the office, what sports, you know who does that, right? So he was literally there 24-7 so it's just a very different era and it was a very unique time and it's a neat

story. What's it called and when can we see it and where? It's on a very different era, and it was a very unique time, and it's a neat story. What's it called, and when can we see it, and where? It's on CBC this Sunday. I forget what it's called. Offside it's called. It's called Offside, and it's on CBC this Sunday evening. I can't remember, 8 o'clock or something like that. Maybe that's when the big hands on the 12 and the little hands on the 8. Thanks, pal.

One more, one more. When he owned the Hamilton tiger cats, did the leaves do a team picture with an actual tiger on the ice? He brought a tiger on the ice once and be just before the great cop. And he says one sentence like just once though. And, and the handler was super pissed because like he started hugging the tiger and like tiger could have killed him

like you know like that's just kind of the way he went through stuff and and there was another great cop and they're playing the next day you think about this okay the tycats playing the great cop with lisa playing saturday and he goes hey gordy can you come up with some things for the scoreboard like i want to piss the argo fans off So, you know, I quickly thought of them. And, like, one I had was, Ticat souvenirs available at all concession stands. Argo souvenirs, question mark, call Acme Storage. Anyway, so it got a big laugh. And then at the end, I put a stupid, I put a prediction down, like, prediction,

Hamilton, 35, whoever, Edmonton, 28. And then they won, and Dick Beto's Monday goes, Harold Ballard's prediction was almost right on. Like, I was just putting these down as a, you know. But anyway, that's what I say. You know, you're just always something. It taught you to think on your feet. You're lucky I wasn't around when you took that team picture with the Tiger.

I would have hit a cheeseburger in your pocket. Smashed McDouble? Where are you going to get a cheeseburger at the Garden? You would have got those cheeseburger in your pocket smashed mcdouble where are you gonna get a cheeseburger at the gardens you would have got those old hot dogs okay we're gonna look for it gordo thanks man okay see you gentlemen thanks gordon stelic former toronto maple leaf general manager you know and tiger tamer a lot a lot of things were more entertaining back in the day were they not like the it wasn't better. This is not a claim it was better, but the weird billionaire owner era was entertaining.

Yes, but like I said, no social IQ whatsoever when it came to his beliefs and just wouldn't last five seconds today no and there were parts of him when he was from what i hear really nasty yeah you know i mean yeah it sounds like it the it just felt like for a long time individuals ran teams in a certain way like you know i've heard uh and no disrespect to a man that i like a lot a lot in Like, you know, I've heard, uh, and no disrespect to a man that I like a lot, a lot in Cliff Fletcher,

but I've heard that he would just like yell out trades to the, you know, Hey, I can get whatever for so-and-so. It's like the guy in the mail room is like, do it, you know? And then like,

you know, now it's so private and big groups of people and people get fired now for leaking information. Right. And it used to be just a kind of a guy making a decision now it's all by committee and vetted and what are the analytics and what are the caps pulling straws on a guy's future yeah he used to still trade him ed olchuk has uh the best story when he was traded uh while his wife was giving birth.

Really? Yeah. Yeah. I think we've shared that one already. That's hilarious. All right, we're going to take a quick break. Are we out early here, Sammy, or are we good? We got two minutes.

We got two minutes? We got one minute. Pontus Holmberg sent down to the minors today. Loaned to the Marlies. Okay, is this just cap issues? I think maybe conditioning stint. He was sick. I don't think it's cap issues. Well, he's a minimum, right?

He's B850 like everybody else. He's waiver exempt. I'm sure it's like a go get a game in there or something. Come back ready. Kerfoot looks good in the fourth line. McMahon kind of factor in that we can move Holmberg down now. He kind of just slid in as a big body type of guy no i'm not saying that he's i'm just saying though it makes the decision

easier that mcmahon is now kind of i don't know played a little bit of a homeberg kind of role you know it's i don't know how many guys in your roster you want to look at and say, as long as he just does his job, we're fine there. Like you want to get ahead. You want to be better than the other team's fourth line. But McMahon certainly strikes me as a guy like Holmberg where you don't fall behind. They can at least do their job. They're on the right side of the puck.

You know, I don't know how many of those guys you want to have, but nice to have a guy or two that can plug a hole. All right. I think, I think Holmberg's got a chance to be in the lineup game one. Game player, yeah. In the Stanley Cup playoffs. I wouldn't roll on McMahon. And maybe we'll get into this after bonus,

but I thought Kerfoot looked good in the fourth line as the center too, so maybe they. But you don't want that, right? No, no. Well. Maybe not. Maybe you do. I just think you want Kerfoot playing wing.

Wherever you want him in the lineup, you want him playing wing to me. Okay, we'll pick up that conversation maybe after a discussion with the head coach of the Winnipeg Jets, Rick Bonas, will be joining us. Stick around for more Real Kipper and Bourne. All right, just waiting on Rick Bonas, head coach of the Winnipeg Jets.

29-15-1. Yeah, wow. Boston, a surprise. Winnipeg, right up there for you. Among the biggest surprises of the year? The biggest, I think. Bigger than Boston's run. Well, that's a fair point.

Probably about the same. They're both very surprised. Yeah. I am as surprised that Winnipeg's right there in the Central Division, the Western Conference, as I am Boston sitting here with five losses in 43 games. For me, it's the defensive play of the Jets that's kind of caught my eye. And much like the Toronto Maple Leafs,

they seem to defend as a team pretty well. And that was something that had been a question mark for them, is being on the right side of the puck, having the forwards commit to being on the right side of the puck. And they've kept the puck out of their net this year. Good thing or bad thing for the Toronto Maple Leafs? Winning back losing in Montreal last night. 4-1.

Getting a little bit motivated. Yeah, that's a fair point. I don't know. The Jets have given up the fewest goals in the Central Division this year. That's a pretty good defensive division. What's the first thought when you think of the Winnipeg Jets now? Is it faces of the organization that are still there like uh mark shifley blake wheeler you know i i think of high-end talent and that

can make a difference in a playoff series like you get them in a series you got all these guys that can score and a goalie that's all world you know anytime you go up against a team that can do that if the rest of the guys can kind of keep it together, you like their chances. They can beat anyone. You know, the depth guys, I've liked Adam Lowry for the bulk of his career. I like Kevin Stenland. Is he not an ultimate third-line centerman checking?

Is he the Leafs dream depth guy? You pick from the Leafs. Ah, listen. Put Lowry on any contending team. Kippers got Lowry, Garnett, Hathaway. We've got two pieces of your perfect third or fourth line right now. We just got to figure out who the. Tanev.

Tanev? Tanev. Chris Tanev. No. Brandon Tanev. Leave Chris on defense. Yeah, fair enough. I don't think calgary wants to

give me watch him playing fourth line wing yeah no tanniff i think is one of the the best fourth line players in the league it's a good pick yeah yeah yeah you know what i like about all those guys is energetic they go get it scrappy good speed all right sammy we uh finding rick maybe stand by here just give me two minutes no no problem at all ask him if he's feeling okay after a loss i'll ask you a question um timothy lilligran so yesterday they go five forwards on the power play yeah next unit the d-man is connor timmons not margaret r. Yeah. Not Timothy Lilligran. Yeah. Do you think, not think that, like, why is Timmons getting of the only D-man to go over the boards on the power play?

Timmons? They think he's capable. They think that, again, part of his upside as a prospect all along was that this guy, it was believed that he could be a top four defenseman. Right. But Lilligran too, right? Should he not get the reps in case? I don't think Timmons is going to be a top four defenseman. Right. Lilligren too, right? Should he not get the reps in case? I don't think Timmons is going to be in the playoff lineup.

They probably think Timmons shoots the puck better. I bet they do. But still, I don't think they think Timmons is going to be in the lineup. I think they got to focus on Morgan Riley going back there and gaining some confidence. It's a confidence booster too when you play the power play. It is. Keeping the routine, the easy minutes, a lot of touches. Being out there on the number one unit on a team that's supposed to contend

is like the ultimate confidence booster. No matter what's going on with your game, if a coach feels like you still should be on a number one power play that uh that's a shot in the arm you know what's a interesting thing for the toronto maple leafs is all of their elite forward or all their elite pieces they don't have a natural bumper guy you know it works with five forwards because bunting tavarez can do that then bunting can be net front or Bunting can be bumper and Tavares can be net front. They have one of those guys in Tavares.

They don't have two. Willie, Mitch, Austin, all flank guys. So you're asking one of them. They've put Mitch in the middle. They've put Austin in the middle. Willie's tried it. The one tendency I have with Morgan on the power play is he goes to Austin way too much much for me and it's it's it's really predictable

you'd much rather him go to austin less than half the time so that they're sleeping on him a little so mitch can lull them to sleep and you can see them and get them oh yeah he's over there it just seems forced to me you don't have ovechkin handling the puck a ton as the flank guy everyone does their thing until it's time to get it to load up the cannon you know well it's going to be a good challenge i think uh because winnipeg comes in as one of those teams and they're they got a handful up front and if we look at uh winnipeg we see guys having career years should you do some jets lines here connor dubois eelers as the top line just goal scorers everywhere like perfetti shifley wheeler as a second line and there's a there's a lot of buzz in montreal with pierre luke dubois going there he said the right things yesterday

do you hear him uh no he said that uh uh he'd be doing his teammates a disservice if he focused on anything other than this year yeah all right so he so he didn't have a real estate agent with him uh looking for apartments i don't know about that but that's that's all that's all i heard um was the buzz in the building yeah players talking about where's what's what's pierre luke dubois gonna do guys 50 points in 45 times 20 goals he's got uh he's a restricted free agent next year which means that uh he's are eligible to sign a one-year deal. And then in 2024, become an unrestricted free agent. Yeah.

Six foot two, 205 pounds, 50 points in 20 or 45 games. 90 point pace. Yeah. 24 years old. That's it. What's that worth?

That's expensive. What's that worth? 9 million. It looks like we're in agreement there. It's a lot of money, know yeah it is and i think winnipeg would be happy to pay it if if somehow some way he changes his mind but i went on tim and friends uh on uh last night and everything. All right, let's pick up that conversation after. Let's go to Rick Bonas.

And Rick, I was just asking JB if, you know, it's been a tremendous year so far. You're challenging in the Central and the West, but it is coming off a 4-1 loss. So are we in a good mood right now? Never in a good mood after a game like last night. And it's really, sometimes it's not about the score. It's just about how you play. It was, that's one of the worst games we played in a while.

And as I mentioned after the game, there's very few games this year, after 45 games that we walked out of our rink and said well we certainly did not deserve to win that but that was certainly the case last night so the 4-1 yeah we you know we had some really good looks to tighten it up but we did not deserve to win that game our play with and without the puck was very very sloppy just in terms of uh the things that have gone right so far and obviously what didn't show up last night, but what are one or two things that have really stood out for you

on what you've seen out of your team in the first 40-plus games? Well, you know, we went through all those injuries, and I gave the players that were stepped into those roles and accept their usual role on the team, and what a great job they did. So we were very, very resilient through all of that. We've got some tremendous seasons individually so far. I'll see if Connor Hellebuck in the net.

He is the elite goalkeeper, and he gives you a chance to win every night. Josh Morris, I know there's been a lot that's talked about his play. He's putting up the points, but he's also playing against the top end players every night. So he's been outstanding. Kyle Conner, you know, he's in his core goals. The two-way play of J.P. Dubois has been outstanding for us. He's strong at both ends of the ice. He's putting up numbers

offensively, obviously, but we can run him head-to-head against anybody in the league. So, I'm very pleased with that. Mark Sharpe, of course, as you know, has 26 goals. He can put the puck in the net. So, we have gotten some big individual performances from the guys

that you view as difference makers in the outcome of a game, but never to be forgotten are the guys that you view as difference makers and the outcome of a game, but never to be forgotten. Those guys that filled in those roles through all those injuries and did an outstanding job for us. Rick, in the past when the Winnipeg Jets have been a good defensive team, it has been largely on the back of Hellebuck. He's been fantastic, but I'm one of those nerds who looks at the numbers, and your team is very good defensively all around in terms of giving up, you know, not as many chances as a group.

That, to me, seems like a team buy-in thing. How do you convince a team that has always scored quite a bit to be on the right side of the puck and maybe not think about the offense first? Well, one of the first calls I made when I got the job was to Connor. I told him, listen, we're going to make your life a lot easier next year. We're going to do everything we can to tighten up the play in front of you. I know last year they gave up a ton of great A's. We've cut back on those a lot. I still think there's times where even last night we gave up a lot more than we normally do

because we didn't do what we're supposed to do defensively in front of them. But we have cut down on the great A's now. We're giving up too many shots on the outside for my liking, but a lot of that has to do with poor puck management. So that goes back to where they just got so accustomed last year to going chance for chance and, yeah, on Conner to make a difference in the game and capitalizing on the opportunities that they had. So a lot of the chances that they are getting, both on the rush

and gaining access to our zone, are really just poor puck management on our part. But we have made a concerted effort from training camp on to cut down on those great A's in front of them and do a much better job of coming back and working from the inside out. Now, last night, we'll show you that it's almost still a work in progress. For the most part, it's been very, very good. When we've been bad like we were last night, they were giving up those chances that they were giving up last year, which makes more sleepless nights for coaches. But for the most

part, we're very, very happy where we are. But again, last night shows you that we still are a work in progress and we still have to do a better job to cut down those chances on a consistent night-to-night basis. We're talking to Rick Bonas, head coach of the Winnipeg Jets.

Not easy, even for a veteran like you, to come in and really replace a guy like Paul Maurice, who was very beloved in that community and amongst the players and had such longevity there. But maybe you can speak, Rick, a little bit, too, on how the dynamic has worked with yourself, Scott Arneal, Brad Lauer, Marty Johnson's there as well. My understanding from what I gather in talking to maybe a few players is that Scott can maybe focus maybe a little bit more on the X's and O's

and you from 20,000 feet above can maybe manage a few personalities or, you know, in the motivational. But how has it worked out overall and that's really led to great success? Well, the coaches that you mentioned, Scotty, Brad, Marty, and Wade Flirty, they've been here for a long time. They do an outstanding job and you let them do their thing. They're great coaches, and they're good communicators,

which is a very important part of coaching in our league today. We knew we had a lot of work to do coming in, both on the specialty teams, where Scott runs, and the power play, which Brad and Marty run. So there was a lot of work to be done.

There was also the culture that we had to change. So that takes a lot of work, and that does take a lot of one-on-one time. And again, it's a continual work in progress. So, yeah, it's work. It's a great staff. I'm thrilled with the guys that came in to help me out here. And we do work very, very closely. It's a very tight-knit group,

and we work very closely on all aspects of the game. And I certainly give them a lot of reign to do their thing because I have full trust in them. Would the Jets or the Jets fans put any more stock into a game against the Leafs? Is it fair to call it a rivalry even though it's not in division? Well, again, I missed that Canadian division. I was down in Dallas. And I think right now, listen, they're near the top in their division and conference, and so are we.

So it's really a battle of two very, very good teams. They played better than we did, obviously, last night. So it's going to be up to us to rebound and play the Winnipeg Jets style of hockey that's gotten us to this point this year. But tomorrow night should be a very entertaining hockey game. They can score. We can score. And I think both teams would like to tighten up those four goals against. One of the players that I think got a new birth certificate,

he's now named Norrisy, a defenseman for you. You know, when we look at Josh Norrisy, we see a guy, at least here in Toronto, that we can kind of say, maybe he's in the Morgan Riley kind of place in terms of, yeah, very good defenseman, but we don't really, first and foremost, think of them as leading for a major award

like a Norris trophy. What has Josh Norrisy done in the first 45 games to completely take the perception of what type of defenseman he is to another level? Well, again, when I got the job in July, Josh was one of my quick calls as well. I just remember coming in with Dallas into Winnipeg a few years ago and being very, very impressed with his play, his skating, his IQ, and his skills. So when I did get the job, I called him and kind of told him, listen, if we don't get you in the top ten voting of that Norris trophy,

then I'm disappointed in me, first of all. And second of all, I'll be disappointed in you, so we've got to work together to unleash your talents because, again, he's an elite skater. He has a great hockey IQ, and he has elite skills, so you've got to let him play, and we've

kind of given him the green light to use those skills. He used the hockey IQ and certainly that skating ability, and he's up with the rush he can lead the rush and we have full confidence in him and defensively because again he does play against the top players in the league so um he's been everything and more than i remember what i remember and what i'm seeing he's everything and more of that rick you know you mentioned the calls you made when you first come in. Managing those relationships is crucial,

and one of the difficult things you had to do when you came in was obviously Blake Wheeler, no longer the captain of that team. How has your relationship evolved with him from the start of the season until now? It's been fine from day one. I mean, he wasn't happy that we were doing that, but we all know all the turmoil that surrounded that team last year. So when you

looked at he said well changes have to be made there well that's right we do we have to change we have to change the perception of the team we have to change the culture of the team and then talking to all the players it became very clear to me that they all wanted more of a voice in what was going on in the room so we gave gave them that, and we took away the C, which was very tough to do, and Blake's been dealing with it like a real pro that he is from day one. He's still going to lead whether you were a C or an A. If you're a leader, you're a leader, and you're still going to do your thing. As I told him when we had that initial discussion,

I still expect him to be a big part of the leadership, which he is. Now, so we did take a C. We did name a C for that particular reason. The players wanted all, sounded like they wanted more of a voice and have 20 voices instead of one or two or three. So that's what I gave them. And it's their room, and they're making the most of it. But Blake's been outstanding, and I have not had an issue with him.

And everyone has a voice. We have three guys, and we're in the A's. And I do talk to them quite a bit. But Duby and all these guys and Casey, they all have this voice in what's going on in that room. And that was very important that we had to address it, and we had to address it and we had to change it so as tough a call as it was it was the right call to make we all assume that your

players will put kevin shovel day off in a position down the stretch to maybe add or a few bodies uh possibly to uh really go for this but as far as uh nick ehlers uh back in your lineup it's like almost like you traded for a guy. What's he done since he's been back to restructure your depth up front? Well, he certainly helped the top six, and he gives us a lot more speed and a lot more skill than playmaking. He can score goals, but he's been impressive, again, just with his speed. And his ability, you know, there's a lot of guys with great speed, but when they go to again just with his speed and his ability.

There's a lot of guys with great speed, but when they go to shoot the puck or make a play, they've got to slow up a little bit. Well, Nick doesn't. He can make high-end plays at high-end speed, and he's got a great release, so he's a threat off of rush, and he's a great passer, and he's got good vision. He's

really improved our top six. He's improved our speed up front, and he's certainly improved the top six. He's improved our speed up front and he's certainly improved the skill level. So he's a weapon when he's on the ice and he's an epic guy that I remember coaching against thinking, wow, you better be well aware where he is on the ice because he can get that puck

and he can turn it on and he can go and he's a threat every time he touches the puck. Hey Rick, we really appreciate the effort coming on our show today and really looking forward to the game tomorrow night. Best of luck. All right, appreciate it. Always a pleasure talking to you guys.

Thanks, Rick. Appreciate it. Rick Bonas, head coach of Winnipeg Jets. That was gracious time. Give us his time there. That was great. Sorry about the mix-up, boys. What mix-up?

Oh, just delayed. No, you're fine. We got the chat about Lilligren and the power play. time give us his time that was great sorry about the mix-up boys what mix-up oh just took a delayed get no you're fine we got the chat about lilligran and the power play he that was an awesome answer about wheeler yeah like it just i think it's it was just fascinating to hear him talk about that i'm sure he's talked about in other places but just to answer it so directly like yeah it's fine he wasn't he wasn't happy and we we went forward. He had a lot of clout under Paul Maurice, and sometimes some of his teammates thought it was just a little bit too much. A direct extension of Maurice, probably. Case in point, what Rick just said, less voices.

And now a guy like Brendan Dillon, all of a sudden, he's become a pretty important guy in that room. Yeah, and he mentioned Kyle Connor too, who I still think of as a young guy, but he's probably 27 or something now. He's 26. Yeah, he's been around a bit. Can this team find a way to get to a Stanley Cup final?

Yes, they can. They absolutely can, because you look at that side of the hockey you know it's not like they couldn't handle any of the the contenders or at least give them a good run so yeah you add one or two guys probably on the defensive side of things shore things up a little bit and yeah they handle minnesota they can hang nashville dallas can you guys let me salivate about a Jets-Leaves final? Woo. Wouldn't that be fun?

You thought the rivalry was hot already. Sports naturally. Oh, my God. Please. The one thing I see on this lineup, their blue line's too small. Interesting. Let me have a look. Morrissey, DeMello, Dillon, Pionk, Hainola, Schmidt. Yeah.

No. Those guys are piñatas in the playoffs. Not Dillon. Never loved Schmidt. No, Dillon's fine. Yeah. Dillon's fine. Absolutely.

It's just. You don't like Schmidt? I like Schmidt. Yeah, but 5'11", 6 feet. Yeah. Morrissey, 5'11", DeMello, 6 feet. 5'11", 6 feet. Morrissey, 5'11". DeMello, 6 feet. 5'11", 6 feet. Pionk, 5'11", 6 feet.

Boys, big. Tampa's D. Yet another market talking about Gavrikov on their team. Well, that's kind of the thing is it's like everyone wants giant good defenders. Shen. No kidding. They're going to get a first-round pick shen oh my gosh they are well good on them if they can every every guy that went cleared waivers about what you can have brock besser if you want them but every single article you read is they're hot on shen uh elliot's talking about tampa looking at it's like everyone wants shen

and then when everybody wants somebody usually this is literally what we talked about yesterday how there's such like a void yeah i just that type of player and then shen comes in and plays 22 minutes a night like he does in vancouver on a stanley cup team no he plays 17 top four top four yeah no okay no sammy's five six is your third pair okay but that's not a first rounder buddy i'm just saying i don't think it's so excited you don't think it's out of the realm of possibility to get a first for him i'd be shocked second uh yeah i can see that third yeah so before we came on today who were we talking about that i was asking you about uh a pick oh uh pulley rv out of edmonton so he was healthy scratch last night to make way for a vander kane guy who was you know a top five pick

for them scored 25 goals one year defense specialist huge yada yada and i said what do you think it talked to get take to get pull your rv out of there third third fourth fourth what i think when they even even gave me a five maybe it's like well the pulley rv makes three million you're gonna give up a second rounder for him no thank you i will give them a second if they'll eat one and a half of that how many goals do you have this i don't know if you have to back by then maybe and he balances out engvall is he the right side of engvall i can't go into a playoff series with engvall and playy rb two giants who just it's the great it's the great promise line that drives you absolutely bananas.

I don't know if you saw this. This is interesting last night. I'd want him for the least for a full season. Anyway. You like him. I like him. I like Pleyar. He was like ranked top four.

He just feels like one of those Nachushkin guys. He's not going to be Nachushkin. But you just need to get unlocked. He's like an iPhone that you found. You just need to take him to a weird store in a certain district of town. Last night, Ian McLaren, who covers the Bruins. My boy. Sent out a tweet saying, with some hypothetical lines,

Marchand, Bergeron, DeBrusque, Zaka, Krejci, Pasternak, Hall, Coyle, Pugliarvi. He put that out on Twitter. Yeah. And Brad Marchand responded to him with a whisper emoji like a hum i wonder if that's a shut up emoji is it like we don't want that or if that's uh yes you got it or it's a don't say that out loud maybe it's happening marshand is the ultimate troll on and off the ice that is trolly behavior just. Just gets, like, you can interpret that a hundred different ways. I think that's a we've had enough out of you.

We're doing pretty good without your little suggestion. Probably? I don't know. Hmm. Like. Paul Yarby is a big analytics, like, although it's not this year, his numbers aren't as good, but he was a darling, and they're having trouble letting go.

He's been quite bad for Edmonton this year. Somehow. Quite bad. Here's the thing, though, the boston bruins is that we are talking about a team that's lost half a dozen games like why are you adding is that your point like no why are you messing right don't touch anything right like the world's chili. What should we add to this chili? Leave it. I can't play in a lineup that is fighting for a playoff spot. Bingo.

I also noticed on Brad Marchand's tweets and replies, Sid Cicero on December 9th tweeted about Sean Dursey getting booed. And his said, got booed at Scotiabank Arena worse than Brad Marchand ever was. And somehow this, I, this, I missed this completely. Marchand responded to that tweet saying that's cause I'm a rocket,

which means it's good looking. In case you, that's a too young of a term for you, Cooper. How'd I miss that? Anyways, that's an aside. I don't know.

And that's a lineup that still needs DeBrusque, Jake DeBrusque back in it. They're good. They're good. Stacked. Just need the Capitals to beat them up for a round before they soften them up for the Leafs. I don't know if they're

going to add. Like everybody's saying Bo Horvat. But they got room. They'll do something. if they're going to add. Like everybody's saying Bo Horvat. Well, they got room. Right? I'll do something. You think they'll go as bold as Bo Horvat? I do. Right?

They're close. This is a cup year. If you can get better hockey players than you have, don't overthink it. And then what do you do with Charlie Coyle? He's your fourth line center now. Congrats. What's he make?

Five? Lots. Five and a half? Lots. Lots a million? Yeah. Does he know that much? Sammy?

Get on the trend list of caps. I don't care, you know? I don't care what they make, where they play. You want the best lineup. You want the best lineup. No, now you're putting a all-star team together he makes 5.25 million dollars until 5.25 to play on the fourth line and then with him in uh they're making nine mil a year on their fourth line with him and felino

pretty good fourth line what do we care i don't care how they allocate their money if they're awesome i don't care about talking about money it's's just you have to. Speaking of the Oilers, Evander Kane comes in with, what, 17 minutes? Mm-hmm. Hyman gets three points. Jack Campbell, don't look now, four straight wins. Hey, go ahead. I just want to talk about Zach Hyman. I know.

I know. What's going on there? You want to what? Talk about Zach Hyman, because there's a lot of people in this market, myself not included, that are like, oh, well, it's just a cap casualty. You just have to let him go. It is what it is.

You can't pay him that. And I was always kind of like, you can't? And then they did it, and now he's 50 points in 45 games. It's like maybe you should have kept him. 50 points in 45 games. And he's a stud on the penalty kill. He's a beast, like down low, physical guy. Maybe you

should have paid him. Yeah, just move on. No, I will not move on. They did. Where is that in league scoring? Zach Hyman is currently 17th, tied with Nylander. At what, 5-5? Is that what the final number was? Actually, he's one ahead of Matthews.

If the Leafs got to him early enough that you don't get that market value, maybe there was a chance you could have had him for 4-5 or 4-7-5. Let me just tell you, the pack of people he is around in the league leading point getters is hilarious. He is surrounded by Ovi, Pedersen, Nylander, Matthews, Crosby, Dubois, Stamkos. He's right in the middle of those guys. Zach Hyman.

Talk about some value. Him and Willie in that group. Yeah. I just, they, I don't know, Zach Hyman was this absolute beast for the least. He wasn't producing like this for the least, but I always thought they should have tried to find a way to keep him. 20 minutes and 40 seconds per game for Zach Hyman. So now the Oilers are getting hot. They're getting hot.

They're fairly deep up front. They just need defense, guys, and they're just going to have to find a way to find a game changer here. Either Chikrin, Carlson, they need to hit a home run here on the back end. And I'm not saying even like Carlson would be enough. They'd have to go and get Joel Edmondson too. Is Ken Holland going to be willing to get that aggressive?

He's done after next year come on you go retire well if they don't yeah if they don't go deep they're not going to give them a new contract get retired yeah but he has to go for it fired has to yes absolutely absolutely they do what uh i gotta see what their what picks they have for trading but yes they right now their back end is nurse cc kulak barry broberg bouchard yeah not uh not too many worlds where you see cody cc one one or two yeah no not ideal um while we're going around canada your eye slavkovsky out for three months for the Montreal Canadiens with, I believe, a knee injury.

That's bad, eh? Yeah. Well, listen, he's, you made the commitment to keep him all year. You didn't shuffle him down in the American Hockey League. This is a big three months that he could have just grabbed some more valuable experience. It's a big blow

to his development. It's a big blow to his development. It's weird to play him this year to me. Yeah, I can see how they could look at him and go, all right, we can see an NHL player's first overall. We can see how he could get by. But he looks like a guy I would have liked to have had have the puck a lot and play the flank on the power play and get the touches and the big minutes.

And it's so easy in hindsight. Not if he's not ready. You don't know. I mean that in junior, I would have liked to have seen him, you know, like be the guy somewhere else. Yeah. There's something to be said about,

again, this is, this is ego. Yeah. First pick overalls. Aren't supposed to go work on those things in junior or the American hockey league. But why not? Maybe they should. I get it yeah i get it but it's still no we're we're we can do that

here that's i mean are you convinced that this guy is going to be a like does he have to be a star is he just going to be a very serviceable player he has to be a star has to be a... Does he have to be a star? Is he just going to be a very serviceable player? He has to be a star. Has to be a star. Has to be. First over pick. Montreal Canadiens. No pressure in that market. He'll be patient with them. Caulfield, Suzuki. He played

35 games this year and got run over 24 times. Chris Kreider from the New York Rangers. Is a star? Now we're defining our second tier. We've done superstars. 24 times. Chris Kreider from the New York Rangers a star? Hold on. Now we're defining our second tier. We've done superstars. To me, they...

That's your guy? That's how I look at him. No, I would like him to... Well, Kreider did get 50 last year, so I guess he is. I look at him, and Chris Kreider at times can dominate. Like, that guy, there's some nights you watch him skate down the ice, and you're like... How is he not the best in the world?

Like am I watching like my version of Kevin Stevens for Pittsburgh Penguins? Like, but there's always been a consistency issue with Chris Kreider. Yeah, last year was obviously an anomaly for his career. Slefkovski is a guy that is big, strong, should be able to drive to the net, much like Chris Kreider. But I don't know. Is he going to be better, more consistent?

He's got that Engvall power and that Engvall size and the Engvall build and Engvall hands. Wait a second. You had me until you said Engvall. He looks exactly like Engvall. He's remarkable. The way he skates, the way he looks, he looks like Engvall. Do you think exact same style. The way he skates, the way he looks, he looks like Engvall.

Do you think it's interesting that Rick Tockett's on TNT tonight? He works for them. What are you talking about? Okay. I was told he works for the Vancouver Canucks. They're just waiting to implement him. Are you going to talk about it on there? Like, is it the massive element of the room?

Just ask Jimmy Rutherford. You're not told the whole world already. He's talking to other guys for Bruce Boudreaux's job. What could Talkett say on the air tonight? Be like, yeah, I'm just waiting for him to fire Bruce. Like, he'll say I'm not allowed to talk about it, and then we'll move on. Are we sure he wants to go? If you were choosing a place to be a head coach,

there's two thoughts in this for me 32 teams there's not that many spots to become a head coach in the national hockey league vancouver has to be near the bottom of where you'd want to go bottom five for sure for me because they are the only team in the nhl 10 points from a playoff spot and 10 points better than last place in the league so mushy mushy middle no bright future you know you become a guy like and i mean this respectfully like dallas akins where if you coach enough teams and those teams are bad you just aren't going to get more opportunities and now talk has been with arizona and if you go stink in vancouver for four years then what become an assistant coach for 10 years to get another

chance be happy with your 15 million oh that's nice that's a good point because that's what i think it would take for rick talk it probably makes a an easy mill with tnt that's kind of what i would think i mean nobody bothers me i come and go as i please now i go into that hornet's nest yeah three minimum for me yeah times five coaches pushing for long term is always smart and right now the canucks look like they got to commit to someone for a long term uh any news on uh vancouver canucks uh internal investigation on i don't know what happened to uh tanner pearson um this was a headline on the nhl.com canucks say uh nothing wrong with uh with the surgery tanner pearson was that the same um investigative uh company

that the chicago blackhawks used yeah maybe honestly isn't that great now you could just have your own yeah internal investigation i looked into me and i'm good i did a little self-investigation and i i asked myself some pretty tough questions on me oh no i picked no everything but in the end turns out i'm okay the ultimate look in the mirror yeah that's what we did yeah all right so yeah that's what's going on vancouver um they got the tampa lightning tonight so good luck should be fine um among players that interest me for the toronto maple leafs uh adam henrique any interest from you guys for anaheim when he's on the ice they've outscored their opposition when he's not the ice? They've outscored their opposition. When he's not on the ice, they're outscored 100 to 40.

So they're much, much, much better when he's on the ice. I like him. Yeah. Be a nice ad, wouldn't he? Local guy? I'm just out here searching for Leafs, guys. He's in California. He's not one of those. I think that was Dimitri Filipovich who mentioned that trade.

I'd buy that for a dollar. He is somehow only dash two on a team that has a minus 85 goal differential. They're not minus 85. They are minus 85. So. How many teams in the league right now? 32. Who just have, like, are out.

No chance. I bet you there's a dozen right now yeah this whole parody thing they're still managing to be a lot of teams that are bye-bye like philly detroit ottawa montreal columbus buffalo you can even throw in there they're still in the conversation um what are the sends the sends are getting norris back vancouver san jose arizona anaheim chicago all done one two three four five six seven eight nine nine teams completely out of it nine nine out and the leafs know who they're playing in the playoffs sick what. What are we going to talk about for the next three months? Sell the show, Kipper. Sorry. But there's always us for two hours when you're

incredibly bored. Our thanks to Gord Stelic and the head coach of the Winnipeg Jets. Rick Bonus. Really good interview. Really good. By us. I'm kidding, Rick. You guys crushed it. I'm kidding. Hey, thanks for always joining us on our YouTube channel. Give us a thumbs us. I'm kidding, Rick. You guys crushed it. I'm kidding. Hey, thanks

for always joining us on our YouTube channel. Give us a thumbs up. We haven't asked for a thumbs up in a while. We haven't. And a rating and a review. Yes. On Spotify, iTunes. Be nice. Okay. Have a great night, everybody. Enjoy it. And we're back tomorrow. We'll see you next time.