Real Kyper & Bourne - Buying In On Defence

Episode Date: November 29, 2022

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee begin the show by continuing the conversation around the uncertainty of Auston Matthews' future with the Maple Leafs, then get into Toronto's 4-2 victory over the Detroit Red Wings, which one player would be replaced on the defensive pairings, and how the group has bought in on performing better on defence. Former NHL executive and Sportsnet hockey analyst Mike Futa (42:09) weighs in on which area on the Leafs roster they should be upgrading, if Matt Murray and Ilya Samsonov are the future goaltending tandem, and his assessment of Matthew Knies within Toronto's prospect system. Then, senior columnist from Sportsnet Eric Francis (1:07:04) jumps on to discuss Matthew Tkachuk's return to Calgary for the first time since being traded to Florida, Flames' struggling on offence, and how can head coach Darryl Sutter help turn their season around. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. 14-5. Right before the show, a good buddy, Justin Born here, says, you want a chocolate? Did you miss your window to eat it? And I'm like, I'm not sure if I need any more sugar right now. You fired up. I think I got plenty of energy. but I will have it after the break.

It's minty and delicious. Thank you very much. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Derek Brandeo, Frank the Tank, Sammy McKee with you for the next two hours. Yeah, I got a lot of energy right now. It's happening. Terrific month by the Toronto Maple Leafs, closing it out with another big win against Detroit.

And yet, I got bamboozled this morning on the morning show. That's a big one. He did. You know what? This is how pissed off I am right now. Classic negative Kipper. I've never used bamboozled in a sentence. You must have.

I've never uttered that word in my life. I'm not even sure what it means. I think you're using it right. But boy, oh boy, did that social media PR machine over at Sports net just absolutely bury me today you know on a terrific month by the toronto maple leafs on a terrific run by mitch marner and i'm trending right now because they took one little tiny clip off a morning show hit I did with Ailish and Justin Cuthbert. And now I'm the bad guy. I'm the bad guy.

Scram beat it. How are you going to take all this positive juju the Leafs have going and come out there and talk about two years from now, summer negative. I mean, did anybody hear it or are we just going, we're just basing what like social media is now. You know, absolutely killing me. Some people don't like to do radio at all because of the idea of getting

radioed, right? Where they grab like a little snippet and they're like, yeah, yeah. I got radioed. I got radioed. I got radioed right where they grab like a little snippet and they're like yeah yeah i got radioed say that i got radioed i i got radioed i know these guys behind the scenes don't think you did i think you got radioed listen i mean you still said you said it like you said those things about matthews okay well like there's a lot of people right now uh still don't know what we're talking about. So let's kind of clarify it.

I did a radio hit this morning. We talked Leafs. I hope so. We talked Marner and then Alish and Justin. And for the record, I want to go and make it clear. I have the utmost respect for both of them just doing their jobs. Yeah. And they ain't who I got a problem with right now.

Okay. Okay? So we go through the process of Leafs, Marner, Records, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like what we're going to do in five minutes? And then it was, you know, Matthews, you know, is getting going here, but like he hasn't looked like Austin Matthews, which we've had discussions on. We have.

Alish asked me, what do you think is going on? And just from an experience, a speculative opinion, I said there could be a number of reasons, including, you know, the pressure of coming back off a 60-goal season. Sure. Possibly, maybe it's a conditioning thing. Maybe he didn't train as hard. Maybe he doesn't have the legs that he had.

We're all just spitballing here. Spitballing, more spitballing. And then I brought up the contract. And then that led into do you think he's leaving or staying? And I gave

Matthews a ton of credit for answering it once and then putting it to bed. Yeah. But I got to answer the question. I cannot not answer the question. I was asked a question. I answered it. Yeah.

And first of all, no one should be held to anything that happens before 7 a.m. Yeah. Thank you. It was 7.05, I think. Okay. Damn it. 7.10 then. So I said, I'm with everybody else.

I haven't got a clue. Yeah. I think the only ones that really know are probably austin and the agent maybe the parents and that's it i think he's handled it beautifully but from the people that i've talked to there's a concern that he could leave and that was it kipper says matthew's gone all they did was just cut and paste that one little sentence. Yeah. And trending now. Fire starter. Kipper trying to stir it up.

Yeah. It's like I'm Al Pacino in Scarface. I'm the bad guy. Listen, I got a couple thoughts on this. All right. Let's have it, Sammy. First thought is that a lot of the reason people are upset about it is because of the timing, right?

Right. There's no reason to have this conversation now. I also think a lot of Leaf fans, myself included, are absolutely petrified of this conversation. Yes, there's defensiveness and sensitivity about it. Listen, I am in that camp. I think about it more than I should. I think about it almost once a game.

You know, it's just like he does something sweet, I'm like, oh, God, you know, that's not that far away that we're talking about this. And I don't, and I think a lot of anger is, first of all, like I said, the timing, you know. Oh, typical Toronto media. Can we have some nugs? And the fact that a lot of people, like I said, the timing. You know, oh, typical Toronto media. Can we have some nice? And the fact that a lot of people are nervous about it,

and they're probably projecting a little bit. So those are my two big thoughts. Oh, my gosh. And, like, I'm just, you know, it's kind of fun every once in a while just to read these. But to your point, you know, everybody's sitting there going, why bring that up? It's whatever.

And then there's one that i read and i think it kind of speaks to you um where they just there's a few people that say that uh this is from cory landsberg and i good dude yeah really good guy we know him over on the tSN side, but he says the Dubonites are crying immediately and immediately trying to discredit what Kripper said about Matthews. Just shows how fragile and insecure they are. The Dubonites? What, are we going to go to war with our fan base here? No, I don't think, listen, I don't think they just.

We're just talking here. We're not picking a fight. No. The Dubonites. Dubonites is a bit of a... I don't think it was just... Are you fragile on this conversation? Buddy, I am a Leaf fan my whole life.

Of course I'm fragile. Everything's great. I've been beaten down by this franchise for legitimately my entire life. Of course I'm fragile, but I'm not. I don't think it was just people that are fans of Dubas that were pissed off, Kipper. It was pretty much a wide sweeping pissed off. Which is why we can't give this too much time.

Because there's implications off last night's hockey game, but what does that mean for a playoff team? Like, is the team better? There's current stuff. I understand why you had to answer the question. I understand why we're talking about it now. Yeah, and I think, but there's also that reminder too, because Matthew Kachuk's going into Calgary, right? And that's going to be an emotional game, 100% for sure.

Think they can get Huberto for Matthews? I'm kidding. Kidding, kidding. So, but I'm kidding. Kidding, kidding. So, but I get it and I did not anticipate or go down that path. I was led to it.

I answered the question and... Leading the witness. And that's my story and I'm sticking to it. All right. Goodbye me, Kipper. Sammy,

you good? 100%. I will say, I woke up this morning around 7.30 and I looked at my phone and that's the first thing I saw. I will say, I woke up this morning around 7.30, and I looked at my phone, and that's the first thing I saw. I was like, oh my God, Kipper.

What have we done? So I was one of the Duvenites at first, a little pissed off. It's not like they were like, what'd you think of the power play? And he was like, Matthews to the Kings. Man, honestly though, Kipper. He could stay. Hey. He could go.

I don't think he knows. That's why I think it's like debating what the weather's going to be like. I said that this morning. May 17th of 2025. That's what I said this morning. So what are we debating? Nobody knows. Can I say something here too, though?

That this is why it's fun to talk about this team. Because people care. People are passionate. People want to tell. Love the passion. People want to tell you to F off when you say something that they disagree with. People are passionate about it. Listen, I don't have to have your mentions today, Kipper,

so it's a different story for me. You know how I found out that Kipper said something reportedly controversial? I got a DM that said, you and Kipper are embarrassings waking up. What the hell did I do now? Oh, my God. I love it.

Oh, I love it. All right, let's go embarrass ourselves the the one consistent thing is we solve nothing after two hours every day we do it really well though really well we're great at solving really well okay let's uh move on where do you guys want to start uh just the overall conclusion to an incredible finish for the month of November. Marner's streak. Matthews looking like scoring goals in the middle of the ice like he did all of last season. Where do you want to go, JB?

You know, I think it's, let's talk about the big picture that game last night. I thought that they weren't awesome but i think it's really encouraging that the leafs have a team that can look not awesome and still win on the road like they they didn't give up a whole ton they hung around they got some finishing guys that's the formula for this team is just play defensive enough that you get some chances and your guys finish better than the other team their goaltender plays well that's the formula for this leafs team to win when they're not at their best um a good sign i would say that i was underwhelmed by the detroit red wings even

though they outshot that leafs stinks well that was a big number by the end i think they were up over 40 by the end of the game but, generally, they never really seemed that dangerous. I don't know. They had to pop way more than the Leafs. They did, but it just seemed like a common trend that we've been talking about. They're on the outside. I'm looking at the last few games,

which even goes back to in New Jersey. And Nico Hischier back when New Jersey was when new jersey was in toronto and and beat them in overtime that's the last time i saw the other team's best player play at their best play at their best sorry to say that yeah and then you go into some places and uh caprizoff in minnesota they did a pretty good job of shutting him down last Last night, you know, Dylan Larkin, a few of those guys, frustrated. Yeah. Now, are they having nights off, or are the Leafs doing a good job of taking away their time and space?

It definitely is. I got to give the credit to the Leafs and their attention to detail defensively. I definitely think it's a sample size thing. A game or two and you're not sure, once they get on a run, you know, it's been however many games they've been playing well now, you start to go, okay, they must be doing something good, you know, as a group to slow down the other team's best players. Should we go to Sheldon for his initial take on his overview of the game? Absolutely.

All right. Well, I thought, you know, this obviously was not our best game of the trip, you know, for sure. Credit to Detroit. They came at us hard and made life hard on us to get out of our zone in particular, you know. But I thought obviously our goaltending was outstanding again as it has been all trip. You know, and again, I thought we defended way too much because of our inability to break out. But I thought, especially in periods two and three, we really didn't give up the big chance, you know.

A lot of shots in the perimeter, a lot of long shots. They obviously get a tip on one that goes in in the third there. But by and large, I thought the guys did a good job of allowing Matt to see the puck and the way he's playing, if he's seeing that he's stopping it. I think that's a pretty good takeaway you know didn't allow the big chance i i look at my fancy stats stuff that i get uh sport logic sends me a little thing at the end of leafs game and detroit had the puck in their zone way more than the leafs had in detroit's end but nothing was really that threatening you know and so credit keeping these guys to the outside it's i know it's a little bit boring but it seems like something

to me that's repeatable come playoffs do you see a team that is playing a style of hockey that would be more successful in playoffs a hundred percent okay and i think that to me at times it isn't uh pretty and it's not wide open. Not as fun, maybe. But that's the type of hockey that can help you advance in the playoffs. And not sure where it goes. Well, I know where it goes physically. But again, it all depends on the team. And Leafs, particularly four guys, can beat you and out-skill you on most nights.

And if teams want to go skill for skill, I think Toronto is at the advantage here. But if they want to get in their face, you want to slow them down, I haven't seen the last few teams trying to yeah get in their face or or throw off their rhythm or just upset them they seem to want to go toe-to-toe with the leafs which works fine physically it will it will get harder as the season progresses and then we know what the first round is. Everybody finishes their checks. Yeah, playing against Tampa Bay, which is a lock. But aside of that, to answer your question, style of play is more conducive today for winning in the playoffs.

Yes. There's got to be some learning curve for the big four and the way that they play. They're so consistent. A guy like Willie Nylander, they had a stat last night that games this season with a point. And Mitch Marner was number one with a bullet, I think 22 of 23 games or 23 of 24. He's had a point in, which is, and second in the league is Willie Nylander. You know, it's not like he has stretches of five games where he no-shows like he used to.

Like he's, he used to be this roller coaster. He's just kind of steady right now which is uncommon for his every time he's out there i gotta think that the other team's gone man if i could just get off this ice without him uh burning me well now with matthew starting to play a little bit have you do you think matthews is better just to shot one in uh no better i think little better. He had a couple more chances. Still not. As dominant? I mean, it used to be almost a given that. Do you think he'll look like that for the Kings in two years?

Maybe. At 15 large a year. 15 sheets a year. We just haven't had enough looks of him dominating yet yeah yeah no i i agree i thought the last couple games right five points in two games shoots couple and that the reason i thought he shot that one in or was so decisive was the play before he's he has the puck in the slot and i don't know did it just explode on his stick you know for the turnover before it went the other way and i was just like what is that's happened more this year than it's happened yeah five years of his career yeah you're right but that's why when he came down the next time and he gets a puck in the slot it was like

he wasn't thinking oh is someone else open oh sorry go ahead yeah i was just gonna say though it is the five on five that he's struggled with and now uh the last few games yeah he's getting production on it yeah and that could be enough to turn the tide a little bit here for sure i do like i think that when willie and austin are together and mitch and jt are together you have two lines that play at different speeds like tavarez isn't fast and marner can kind of slow the game down like kind of pulling people to you. Matthews and Willie are kind of more straight away. I think that's got to be hard as a D man when you step over the boards.

You don't know if you're getting the line that you got to be up on or back on. I just think you create some challenges for the D. Yeah. The other thing too is the real threat now on the power play. You take a bad penalty uh they've established enough in uh uh november to really have teams now saying oh god do i want a penalty here and uh how quickly can they go up one nothing or or a second goal uh within moments of a of a puck drop yeah faceoffs

puck possession now a really good face-off team. They are. Led by Tavares. Tavares and Matthews are both really good. Really good. So the moment you're in the offensive zone on the power play and now you're two seconds, you're in a rotation. Now you've got a team on their heels.

You're in trouble if you're killing that penalty and they got the puck with two minutes to go. So let's go to Sheldon on his thoughts on what he sees both on the penalty kill and I think on the power play. The one thing that stands out for me in terms of why we get on the right side of this game

and it's nice to see because it maybe wasn't the case on the trip is that the special teams were really good. Penalty kill was excellent. I thought it gave us a lot of momentum in life in the first period there. Come out of that kill, we score right away and we get a power play and we score right away there too. So I thought that

little portion of the first period where we scored those two goals and get that penalty kill, huge part of the game and then the PK was good the rest of the way too. So can we have the Rasmus Sandin on the top power play conversation boys or yeah he's just it looks way better just pucks to the net they haven't scored a ton of them right

but now they got one and they're just pucks to the net he's making the right decisions yeah and he's got that ability that um i don't think i guess he does but like just the filter to the net sort of that back foot wrister that always kind of finds its way through plus he seems to make the right decision on who to pass to at the top which we always that's the biggest thing for me like he makes the right choice a lot of the time to me the one thing too with riley is i think i thought he had an over tendency to go to matthews yeah well there's sometimes matthews is like deep in the zone not you know the stick to the middle not in a shooting spot and he gets the puck and it's like well what's he supposed to do with it there like you know let him get in his

spot and i agree i a little bit overused there but at the same time there's other times where i'm like it's matthews give it to matthew so i do get frustrated with riley one thing i did want to ask you kipper i'm thinking about writing about this for tomorrow is power play percentage around the league has gone up over the past 10 years pretty consistently the leafs are now 25 success rate on the power play yeah they're eighth in the nhl yeah with their power play and for the most part of last year they were over 30 yeah and then it sunk like a stone right now like eight teams are below 20 in the league or seven teams are below 20 any thought on why power play success rate is higher just more coaching and video work and yeah nothing really stands out other than that, you know,

teams are identifying where there's a breakdown, maybe quicker. I also leave their star guys out more. They take whatever they want. But they didn't used to. Did they 10 years ago? I probably think that the second unit was a legitimate second unit, not breadcrumbs. Like I feel like, you know, if I was ever on the second power play unit as a player i remember getting on the ice at least like now it's like power

not power play to power play who those guys don't get out there i i think there's definitely a buy into that that uh i'm making this much money i have to produce offensively and I will stay out here as long as I, I need to. Yeah. Yeah. Power play opportunities are up a little bit, but mostly just success rate is way up. So on something I'm looking into right now,

uh, the blue line still not an issue. No Brody, no Morgan Riley. And now hollow. Well, seems to be kind of in a little bit of uh of a of a nice soft spot here for him in the lineup yeah what an insane thing they just had road games and they

can't hide these guys and they're just humming along so let's listen to austin matthews on hollow well i find this interesting what's not to stand out I mean, the Big Mac is, he's the man. If I'm, yeah, I don't know. He's just, he's solid back there. I told him after the game, he's undefeated in the NHL so far. So it's definitely, definitely not a bad thing. So, you know, him, you know, Mete, guys that, you know, have had to step in and, you know, play their role. And then obviously, you know, guys like, guys that, you know, have had to step in and, you know,

play their role and then obviously, you know, guys like G Hall or Sandy Timmy that are, you know, playing a lot more minutes

back there are doing a good job for us and, you know, I think it's just a full team effort all around and that's,

it's obviously positive and like I said, we just want to continue to play and continue to keep it going. Think about what Hollywood,

what's called Hollywood? Hollywood. Hollywood. Would think after hearing a guy like Austin Matthews talk to him? Big Mac is the man. Where would that take your confidence level? You've been up to him. In the game.

During the game. Didn't he give him the puck? Was it him that dug the puck out or he gave the puck? Backhand. I mean, what are the – sick league, sick assist, just rims it off the board. He smacks it off the board and then Austin Matthews shoots it the board Two seconds later it's in the net Oh that's an apple 81

Back in the day you used to be able to do that Is there an open second assist? There are 12 on there They're going to get TJ Brody back hopefully in a week Maybe This is the thing with the leaks He could be no better So Sportsnet Social media PR a week maybe you heard anything this is the thing with the leaks it's like yeah no i haven't he

could be no better so uh sportsnet uh social media pr i have not heard anything so just reports brody can leave that alone uh but eventually guys uh they will get those guys back and i'm just gonna ask you now that where are you now with, like how much help are they going to still look for? How big of a guy they want? Where's Hall now? We've seen the worst of them. We've seen the best of them.

Justin Hall of fame right now. Where does this move forward for Justin Hall? Boy, I don't know if it's a confidence thing or what it is but he is excellent right now no that's not what i'm asking you i don't care where is he come playoffs yes he's a viable important part of the decor he is a 19 minute a night guy in the playoffs on a successful playoff team dream scenario he's on your bottom pair because you've upgraded no he's not he's in he's in the he's a successful playoff team. Dream scenario? He's on your bottom pair because you've upgraded. No, he's not. He's eating popcorn?

Is that what you're going to get out here? I don't know if he's still on the team. No, man. What? $2 million. He's playing 21 minutes a night or something and ably against top pairs or top lines. I think if you can lock in Lilligren and Sandin

for your third pair and you have Brody and Riley, you have to upgrade Gio and blank. I don't, listen, I give him full credit. And if he's brought his value up but boys you're gonna have to upgrade there for the leafs now are we talking about sammy being satisfied with a one first round uh win or we are are they trying to win here is there an opportunity to get to a final for stanley cup final i feel like you're giving an awful lot of credit to sandy lilligren right now to say that in playoffs to you know six foot

and 510 d and the third pair they're playing you know wouldn't you rather have justin hall out there shutting people down or at the end of a game who do i want on the ice more than lilligren and sandin it's probably hall and Giordano or Hall and somebody else. Cause it's just more defensively responsible. I'm not going the other way. No chance. I think Sandin's trending and I'm okay with Lilligren playing on my team in the top six in the playoffs.

I get Lilligren a lot of credit. I didn't see a path to where he is now, which is just, he's solid. Like he's just pretty consistent, good upside, looks great. So you don't think the ball... What if just keep it all and he makes $2 million? Can't you keep him and still add?

I guess only $2 million is not zero. Listen, I'm talking about starting six defensemen in the playoffs. Yeah. And would you feel a lot more comfortable if you got hall out and if klingberg's playing well and available for first rounder would you not feel better about klingberg in than hall in yeah but i still want klingberg in and then i want hall with lilligran or sandin don't i don't know who and sandin watching watching i don't know. And Sandin is watching? I don't know. You're just telling me how great he is on the power play. You're going to use nine guys.

You just told me how good he is on the power play. Maybe you need him on a back end here. Who's your power play guy? Is it him and Lilligren then? Hall and Lilligren? Who's in? You just told me how great he is on the power play. How much better he is than Morgan Rielly.

I don't think he's how much better. Is he better than Morgan Rielly? You just told me you like the power play look better. I yeah okay now you want to sit him out well listen i can be lilligran and not sandina does the sitting out but i'm also not 100 soul i need some sample here on sandy power play before i say okay i'm sold on him on the power play i i don't think i'll ever want riley back on the power play all right hold on though where is he going with this where who do you who you want klingberg in i'd rather upgrade one guy i'd rather have one more i agree they need one more one more like and i've said it before uh you know you need seven eight nine guys if in fact love jordy ben is your seventh if in fact they they they look like they have a few of those guys that can step in. Can Jordy Ben do what Luke Shen did for Tampa Bay?

And obviously stay healthy, hopefully. Right. But outside of that, I think they need to upgrade with one more guy. And someone's going to have to come out, like you said, Sandin, Lilligren, or Hall. But I'm not sure I want all three of them together starting the stanley cup playoffs but all right you know we're we're a ways away but just food for thought yeah and great i like that take uh in terms of it's a take but now we're but now we're talking about the playoff roster in november but i think there's it's all we should be talking but there's

how many locks on the team there There's a lot of locks. I guess Hall would be the only guy that you would consider upgrading. Like, you know, you're not taking, are you taking out, obviously Riley, Brody, both locks. Giordano, lock. Right? Sandin, not a lock. Lilligren, for me, lock.

Hall, it's just, it's a good problem to have. They seem to have some depth. This guy's playing 22 minutes a night. Sandin's playing 22 minutes a night. To lead him towards sitting him out. I like that you like Sandin. I like him a lot better. I think he's calmed down. They're

less excited in their own zone. When he was with the Marlies, their greatest praise for him was that he'll take the simple option like i think initially lilligren more skilled would look to do too much sometimes sandin like if he had a guy he'd give it to him he wouldn't overthink it right and that's something he needs to keep a part of his game where you see it you can do it just grab it so yeah simple i like it we got a whole team defensive discipline clip as well.

One of the reasons these guys look so good is I think the forwards have helped them out there a little bit. Why don't we have Sheldon Keefe talk about defensive discipline? Yeah, that's what I would say is discipline to the structure. I think we have been perfect with our decisions with the puck, but for the most part, we've made good decisions there. But just our commitment to come back to our end and fill the middle of the rink.

You know, their first goal, they get in behind us a little bit there. But for the most part, they're not in behind us. We're above the puck a lot and clocking things up to the neutral zone, forcing them to dump it in. And if they do get entries, we're denying the middle of the rink pretty well as a team. D-zone coverage, just clogging the middle of the rink. All those things, the guys have adhered to pretty consistently. And like I said, that gives you a chance to win every game,

especially with the goaltending that we've been getting. And then we've got good players that can capitalize. They're buying in. And I got to give Sheldon Keefe full credit. And even Kyle Dubas, when it was really hairy and the one time we heard from kyle dubas he said yeah i don't know if you guys remember this he said sheldon does his best work you know when when things get you know sometimes a little hairy hairy a little hairy yeah and uh yeah they're they're they're buying in right

now yeah yeah it is interesting too because you know we had many shows here in the wake of elite player gate when he was walking back comments the team's four and four they're losing anaheim and san jose and montreal and arizona like you know there was we had keith hot seat week here whether we called it that or not no they had tough nights but tough nights all and Montreal, and Arizona. Like, you know, there was, we had Keefe Hot Seat Week here, whether we called it that or not. No, they had tough nights. They had tough nights, all right. It's just par for the course, guys.

It is. And I don't know if you're following a lot with the New York Rangers right now, but they're having the same conversations down there now with Gerrard. They are, right? Well, I know they're skimming along. Like, you know, know i had high expectations for them i think they've been really unlucky i like their roster but yeah but that's what happens when there's really high expectations good team to bet on by the way teams under deliver yeah so but seems like uh a distant memory right now at least uh going into december going into christmas things have certainly settled down and uh uh they're they're banking points yeah i mean it's

funny looking at the standings now if you're sort the league by points percentage the leafs are fifth in the nhl you know that's insane to me given what it was but this is all kind of falling into a pattern that was the same as last year what was there they went 15 and 2 over a stretch last season around now um i read something that like you know marner started a little slow matthew's a little slow last year too before you know kind of going on historic tears they're warm i mean martyrs beyond warmed up he's on his but matthews feels like he's kind of warming up yeah not that you want to mirror last year's shape but the positives from last year are re-emerging which is wonderful news for least fan and this run comes off of uh man some tough

injuries on a blue line let's listen to Sheldon Keefe talk about that. Anytime you lose a guy, it stings and it sucks, and then you just get to work. Whether you're a coach or a player, you've got to press on. Whether you're a guy coming in the lineup or you're a guy that's playing more, in our case, if you're a forward, everybody just has to play better, play smarter, play more connected

as a group defend better and then compete and find ways to win so we've done that and we've given ourselves chances to win each game and when you do that you know we're a good enough team that we're going to find our way on the right side of it what are your thoughts on like an in-season adversity theory like how much you need to go through to help you in playoffs? Some of the criticism about the Leafs had been nothing had gone wrong. Like the Canadian division, they just kind of won their way to whatever. They lose once things start to get hard. You think about Tampa Bay the year they won the President's Trophy with 126 points.

They blow a 3-0 lead in Game 1 and never recover. Do you need to have gone through some things? Yeah, the answer is absolutely. Okay. There's great ways that you can draw off of 82 games in scenarios when you're down 3-2 or 2-1 or 3-1 in the playoffs and the lessons learned throughout the regular season have to come into play.

And not only that, but for many of those guys, the Rileys, the Marners, it far exceeds just your last 82 games when you start the playoffs. I was thinking that too. We're going back years. Previous post-season. Previous post-seasons and not getting overly excited

and learning how to close out games, learning how to manage the clock. Like, I'm watching their third period. They've got leads. Yeah. Like I said, they're less excited. You don't need the fifth or sixth goal. Just manage the clock.

And it can look boring at times. But all of a sudden, do you remember, like, I couldn't get over these stupid stretch passes in the first three and a half four weeks where it was like 40 foot passes only to blow up or not even get to a guy's stick and then you've lost puck possession that stuff's been cleaned up it has been yeah and i actually got that last night too that when it was four two it felt like okay okay, Detroit scored. Could it start to get, like, you know, frenzied on Detroit's side?

But, no, it never really got there. The Leafs kind of took care of business. Think about Vancouver. When Vancouver's had leads this year and starts to slip away. Yeah. You know, everyone starts to pucker up a little bit. Well, the Leafs are the opposite of Vancouver. I think the Leafs have the most come-from-behind victories in the league.

They're up high in that stat and the obviously the canucks have blown the most two goalie two goal leads in the league by far so um and then just one more thought on that is that they're not giving up you know bad goals or momentum sapping goals good point we haven't discussed the matt murray and the goaltending murray i think statistically woodley was on bunkus's show the other day and said statistically he hasn't given up a bad goal this season as in like one that shouldn't have gone in by whatever metrics they use so no bad goals every game he looks bigger and bigger to me i know he looked really solid he's putting a couple more uh pieces of wood in those shoulder pads. Just getting higher and higher.

A whole square. There are some people talking about that, eh? About his gear? How big he looks. I said it after the first game. I was like, is this guy's legal? 6'11 or something. Is this gear legal?

Yeah. You think that's... Don't worry about it. Keep it down over there, right? The Leafs are working the edges this year. Social media from sports and can you clip that from Sammy and just um tweet it out please so uh not Murray cheating Sammy McKee seven games played this year won five of them he's got a 2-4-4 goals against in a 927

save ah it's crazy it's crazy you know like it's easy for me to contort myself to be like yeah i mean guy won two stanley cups he's under 30 years old yeah i think we followed jake b leafs a good twitter follow mentioned like not surprising that a guy who has had success sucked with ottawa came back and got healthy as having success with toronto behind a much better team should not be shocked by this what so i hope it has a a better ending but it almost feels like a little jack campbell-ish like this guy why are you doing that no no no he's he's now on a run he could end up in an all-star game yeah good point hope he skips it it has that type of feel oh no is this your last year so let me every season prior let me let me

ask you this then so uh elia samsonov was speaking at practice today he um said he was heading in the right direction it seems that he's day-to-day according to keith they're going to assess it tomorrow now i don't want to be mr goalie controversy guy but samsonov i mean it's hard to remember now because it's been so long but he was really good for the first bit of the season he's coming back here how are you handling this he's gonna get his starts and i you know we gotta kind of look like you think he'll be back by next week well apparently is that the feel or is he ready he could back up tomorrow back up maybe or maybe play who knows he's a 921 save percentage and eight starts murray's 927 and seven starts man that's good you know what else is crazy league average save

percentage right now in the nhl is 905 the lowest it's been i don't know would you sneak in samson off if he's healthy tomorrow night and then save murray for tampa bay saturday absolutely absolutely if he's legitimate healthy like he always want to give the guy a day or two more than he needs but if he's able to go i mean i might even sleep in shalgren tomorrow if if um like i i'd consider it's not a bad call like shalgren has not well he cost him a couple points this year. San Jose. Yeah, he already lost to San Jose. They've never played down to their opponents. No, when does that happen? Oh, yeah.

This is, listen. Leafs haven't done a... Coming back home off a roadie against a bad team. They haven't laid an egg in a while. Tomorrow night could be a classic egg laying scenario. I promise you, I'm betting on San Jose tomorrow. You are. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, it's going to be a dog game from the Leafs. Mitch Lerner going after the tie record. Yeah, he'll get his one assist, and they'll lose 3-1. No, no, no. They were doing okay. No, they're not losing to San Jose on Wednesday. Yes, they are.

Cliff, you forced that. We do not agree. Unless they've changed, but the old Leafs would lose to San Isidro For sure Coming back off a successful trip Just feeling themselves a little bit Media clippings Oh quickly before we go to break

Although Kipper did trade Matthews today Before we go to break quickly Because we talked about the point streak there Quickly we just mentioned it I want to listen to Marner getting asked about it today, about the point streak. Oh, it was last night after the game, so let's play it. Put your one game away from tying the team record. Does that sit with you at all?

This isn't going to stop, eh, boys? I mean, yeah, you know, it's a hard league, man. I'm not expecting this every night. So it's just for me, like I said the last couple days, I'm just trying to go out there and buzz and be myself and try and make plays out there. It's been working, so I've just got to stick with that. My guys have been great finishing pucks for me

and giving me the pucks that I've been lucky enough to score on as well. It's more important wins, and that's what we've been doing. That's why this feels great. Buzzing. Espresso-inf infused jolt cola of a player right now yeah i'm thinking about finity and beyond it's also such a lie to be like i'm not expecting this every night yes you are you're easily last night you gotta stop hey boys now you better hope it doesn't stop right that's a good one not to stop if john tavaris scored last night on four of the opportunities like marner could have seven points last night the amount of times he set up he set

up tavaris like three or four times i think there's a lot of nights man he could have three or four points last night especially maple leafs improved to 15-0-1 when marner matthews and neilander all score in the same game so yeah i mean you score three goals that's a good start but still haven't lost when all three of them score in a game. All right, we're going to take a quick break. In the second hour or two, Eric Francis, he's going to help us tee up Matthew Kachuk back in Calgary. And then after the break, Mike Futa, we've had him on before. Sit back, grab a lawn chair, and listen to Mike Futa.

Futa, by the way. Fiu. Fiu Mike Fuda. Fuda, by the way. Fue. Fue? Fuda. Futes. Futes. Futes. Utes.

The Utah Utes. Isn't that, what was that movie with? Yeah, yeah, yeah. My Cousin Vinny. That's right. Two Utes. Yeah, that's right. My wife knows that. Futes after the break.

You're listening and watching Real Kipper and Born. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. All right. We're waiting on Feuts. Mike Futa, former NHL executive with the Los Angeles Kings, helped build Stanley Cup teams. Yes. Going to get his thoughts on the Toronto Maple Leafs

and some of the things that we talked about in the first block here, including what kind of look the Leafs may have. How long have I known you, Mike? Over 20 years, and Justin tells me it's not FUDA, it's FUDA. No, but if you're that good a friend, you just let guys get away with stuff like that. D-Lombardi's been calling me for 15 years. When I crossed the border, it changed dramatically,

but it's all good, Kipper. It's all good. I took my dad once to an NHLPA event, and we're playing golf with Baumgardner. And I don't know what my dad was calling him, something completely else, and I didn't notice it until the 18th hole. I'm like, Baum, what's he calling you?

He goes, I don't know, but I didn't have the heart to tell him. Just let him go for 17 holes. Oh, man, that's great. Hey, I hope you're roaring to go. Last time we had you on, man, you were on fire. Way go. You know what? You're already sounding way too calm for me.

Well, my daughter just passed her driver's license test today, so I just had a wonderful father-daughter chat. So I've got to get out of dev mode and get into Red Bull mode. Wow. Here's the question. What are you buying in our feuds? I'm getting a license plate that says Buddha. Good start.

Good start. Let's talk the turnaround for the Toronto Maple Leafs. It's a great finish to November, particularly defensively. What have you seen out of the Leafs that has been most impressive on their turnaround? Team defense. Commitment to playing defense as a unit.

I think when they're at their worst, they're blowing the zone a little bit too early and cheating for offense. And it's fun to watch. And with the talent they have, you're certainly in an 82-game schedule. You want to to see that but I think based off their performance last year I'm wanting to have improvement I think Sheldon walked it back after game two and I think he was a little bit upset with himself the way that was handled and I think since then he's been firing on cylinders

I think he's said if I'm basically gonna lose my here, I'm doing it my way. And I think he's been exceptional. But Mitch Marner, and I don't need to tell you, Kipper, but I've always admired Mitch Marner as a player. He is taking it to another level of play. And both ends. I mean, when he stripped the puck off of Dougie Hamilton in Jersey and just basically flew him away and then on one knee threw it out front, that's been some big boys that keep doing that.

And I can only talk so much about Mark Giordano, but right now Mark Giordano is looking instead of a guy that took a hometown discount, Calduba should be putting flower wreaths in his stall for that because he's playing like a $4 million defenseman right now. But it's like his passion there. And I said, you know, it's been unfortunate because a lot of different Leafs have come back late in their careers, and they've been great teammates and stuff, like Spezza or Thornton or Marleau,

and they come back home, and you don't really get the great Hall of Fame kind of player that they did in a throw career. But right now you are getting vintage Mark Giordano blocking shots. the great Hall of Fame kind of player that they did in a throughout career. But right now you are getting vintage Mark Giordano blocking shots, actually to a point that I'm like a little concerned about how he's going to hold up through all this because the heart is still 22, but the body is still in great shape. He's just dropping in front of everything. And again, I talked to him last year, and he was like, he was at the end of his rope.

He lost so much confidence in Seattle. He couldn't find any structure. They were playing there. He was playing, even for him to say he was playing, way too many minutes, you know, first unit power play, first unit penalty kill, and the results were so diminished. And now he just seems to have slotted into a role. And with the injuries out, I mean, he's been awesome.

And I mean, even like they were booing Justin Hall, I mean, and for some time off the ice for weeks. And now, you know, these guys have really looked steady. And, you know, who ever thought they could have done it all without Jordy Ben, too? Yeah, they're surviving in the absence of Jordy Ben. So when you watch this team play, and the goal is not to make the playoffs or to win a playoff round, the goal is to win a Stanley Cup.

You're the GM. Where's your priority to add to this group here? I know that some people have said that, you know, Kipper and I have talked about the left wing position. Some people think defense. Where do you see is the most pressing need? Well, you guys discussed it before, and the perfect tight player, and I mean, I kind of had a little bit of insider information on the fact that he had turned down a trade to Winnipeg,

but a player like a Manson, that type of player, I think, is going to be critical for them in the playoffs. I don't think you need, I would state far away from a Klingberg-type player who I think is an absolute mess in his own zone, although he's offensively gifted. I don't think that's what they need. And then I'd try and get, I guess, a shirt player. I mean, the problem is, and we talked about this the other day,

is you've got to find a dance partner. And there's so much parity in this league that it's easy to say, okay, Anaheim's out of it, so of course you're going to talk about Klingberg. Certainly Columbus is out of it, so Gabberkopp. But there's going to be some teams here that just have such a different expectation. It's not going to be that easy to find the right type of defense. And ideally, it's the right shot. I know there's a lot of talk about Jacob Chicken.

I think you're going to have a big trouble trying – the pieces that they're going to want out of your lineup might throw off your dynamics. So I think that's a hard trade for someone like Toronto to make. But again, and then I think I'd try and find a character type player, bottom six guy, that's not going to blow your bank. I said,

somebody said it yesterday, the kind of rule that like a Corey Perry has played for teams down the stretch, where just a veteran guy that whether he had, whether he's dying to win his last cup, you know, unfortunately, in my opinion, I want Wayne Simmons to be that player. I don't know whether he can anymore because he plays the right way.

He obviously, I mean, Sheldon doesn't have as much confidence in him as he once did, but that type of player that maybe can fringe up on your second line, but ideally is going to be a top playoff performer like when you see teams add a Barkley Goodrow and stuff like that. It's a big body presence. It's just going to be able to

stand the wear. I talked about having been on the plane and Kipper, you've won a cup. You see these guys. You get to the third or fourth round, and the playing guys are carrying, like, intravenous units down. There's ice packs everywhere.

And like you just said, Borny, this team is not being, for a team that hasn't won a round, they're being talked about as Stanley Cup champions, and that's a grind. So you've got to have some big bodies that are prepared for that grind. We're joined by Mike Futa, former NHL executive with the L kings uh stanley cup run i want to ask you just in terms of

the process for you as a management team to know a team may be close and you've experienced this obviously with the la kings and the process of what you think you have in october and november and the ability for certain players to change your mind how often has it happened in the past or are you locked in and i'm only using this because we had a conversation feuds on justin hall and if you envision him in your top six when it's all said and done and still maybe look at Lilligren and Sandin as well in the lineup, or do you just say, no matter what this guy does from here on in, I've made up my mind, we're going to upgrade here? Kipper, it all depends on your personnel and your belief.

It's clear that they love him. Internally, they love him and they don't see an issue with them uh i would looking at back and we were always looking for an upgrade on that on that position and and again this small bubble he's been outstanding but over the in some tight situations he struggled now they might feel that he's going to be able to get through this um he is a right shot d which they don't have a lot of. But I think there's always that look for improvement. And when you get to a certain point, like we've gone through our, you know, get beat out, learn your tough lessons, and then we look at our team up, and the one year we felt we were ready to start, run,

and we traded for Mike Richards. And Mike Richards cost us Braden Shen, Wayne Simmons, and a second-round pick. And so he also got us two Stanley Cups before he kind of fell off the rails a little bit. But you were getting the real deal with regards to you knew your compete level was going to now be taken to another level. And, you know, you're going to have a Josh penalty killer that has got an ultra-maniac competitive level. And then the following cup run, we were just really worried about somebody that could fire the big goal scorer, and Marion Gabrick happened to be available, right? So we were very specific about what we were looking for

and what we felt was going to put us over the top. Now, our problem there, Gabby ended up scoring like 18 goals in the playoffs, and then he took us to the cleaners on a contract. We should have just let him. He was sitting in the dressing room giving Dean the show me the money sign, and we should have shown him the exit. And I love Marion Gabrick, but Marion Gabrick in a contract year is a dangerous thing

because you get the best version, and then as soon as the contract's signed, if you get a little nick on the fender, they said, well, the Lamborghini's going back in the garage. That's funny. What do you think? I think they need a grind. I think they need a big right shot D that can eat some minutes and give him some grit and sandpaper.

And I'd love to see an upgrade on Bunting. I like him. I just don't think – and I think if he's ideally on your third line – You're laughing, yeah. That, to me, looks Stanley Cup. That's a little bit more of a Stanley Cup look to it than when he's up high in the lineup. And it's not – I mean, I love his compete.

I find he's getting exposed a little bit this year for this. He does have to remind himself that it is really his second year in the league, not his 15th. And like last night, I don't know whether I heard the right thing, but there was a little volume deficiency in the trike game, and he just laid into an official. And I'm like, are you kidding me, kid? Like this is not going to bode well for your future in the style you play

if you're going to try and embarrass officials like that. And it's not just that official. It's every official watching or getting a clip of that. Oh, 100%. Because they stick together, right? Oh, 100%. Even when they retire, they stick together. And it's to a point that, I mean, I've heard stories of when the guys go in,

like when they're filming career and stuff, when they go, like when a McPhail McCreary and stuff, when they go in to do the little talks with coaches and managers and stuff, like they know they want to stay still. They've had great careers. He's a Hall of Famer. You've got to treat them with respect. And if you give off some of that, sometimes that arrogance, they stick with, they know that, and they pass it down to the field soldiers that are in the office.

And it's not that they're going to go out and try and screw you but they're definitely not going to help you and and uh and i find you said it like as you trip early in the year and i've now watched for it is that when he does that when he draws a penalty and goes down on one knee and like grabs his nose like he's cut all the time and takes a knee and then the ref has to come over and see if he's in very i haven't seen a bleeding yet but it's almost like a given that that's going to happen. And it catches up with them, so there's time that they don't give him that break. And he competes so hard that you want him to draw penalties, but that's not the group that you want to rub the wrong way in,

especially in year two. Yeah. You know, we're talking quite a bit about the forwards, the D, and what they need. Obviously, the goaltending is something of interest of interest as well i would say going into the season kepper you and i talked a little bit about this where it was like you'll see what you get from murray and samsonov but you're certainly not not looking to improve you know like we didn't know what they would look like but there's a chance that this was the best they could do in the off season and they'd survey the landscape as the year

went on at this point. Is it like, is there, do you think they should just live and die with Murray and Samson off? And I mean, is that maybe that's their only option? I don't know if you, it's well,

I think it's the ultimate sword. They're good either. And I mean, I don't have the answer because even internally, I don't like if you were to start this, to start the season. Okay. Murray gets injured.

And all of a sudden Samsonov is the guy. Everybody forgot Murray existed. He's a band-aid. He's injured all the time. Thank God we have Samsonov. Now it's like the only thing missing on Murray is the red cape and the kryptonite coming near the dresser. And it's good for them to have those options.

And the team obviously believes in them. But there's always that that there is that thing in the back of your head that won the injury about their durability and secondly they've both shown the ability to go on long streaks of cold to go with the heat that they bring and now obviously right now the way the team's playing it looks great on Murray I mean whatever they're analyzing and moving posts off etc but he looks But he looks calm. He looks big. They carried him through Samsonov. But Samsonov is probably getting back shortly, I would imagine, here.

But I don't know what else is out there in a sense of the cap space they have and the areas they need to address. It's almost you've got to hope. And I used to talk to the guys in Ottawa about Murray. It wasn't that they didn't think he was capable of playing well. It's that they literally would sit there with their fingers crossed every morning skate that he was going to make it through and be available that night.

And that's a terrible feeling when you're a coach. Now, it's a great feeling when the team's playing as well and as hard as they are right now. But again, over an 82-game schedule, the one thing you can't have is a cold patch, a long-existing cold patch. We see teams fall right out of it because of inconsistencies in that. And they've made their bet as far as their goal-inning situation.

I would be shocked unless there was an injury to one of their two Murray or Samsonov if they even think about going in an outside market to upgrade a net. Fuchs, a lot of the conversation before the season started was the fact that it didn't appear that Kyle Dubas had a lot in the cupboards left, either to trade for or prospects. Yet we've seen Holmberg come in and do a decent job.

This Hollowell comes in and just makes sure that there's no leaking in the boat. And, you know, where is the thought of Matthew Knives as being maybe almost like a trade deadline pickup if he can come in and be a heavier, you know, bunting for you? Is that still a long shot at best that college kids can come in and be impactful? Or is there a chance of this happening? Well, that's a great question, Kipper. And he, for me, is the only A-plus prospect.

And it's not a knock, but again, if you're a general manager coming in and watching these guys play that are coming up in little bits and pieces and look decent, they're good players, but I'm not leaving with, like, oh, my God, I've got to have one of those, right? They're doing exactly what you said, Phil Holtz. Now, this nice kid, he gave me my three best live viewings of any college player, and I felt that he was going to come out. I mean, obviously the whole team stuck together because they want to try and take

another shot at the championship, but just his physical size and his ability to skate. If there is a player in college, we've got to remember too. It's not like I remember the year that when Kitchener Rangers and the London Knights beat out Mike Richards and Jeff Carter came in to Philadelphia as 18 or 19 year olds and jumped right in. I mean, they won the Calder Cup and then they were ready to go right away as 18 or 19 year olds.olds and jumped right in. I mean, they won the Calder Cup, and then they were ready to go right away as 18 or 19-year-olds.

These kids are a little bit older, right, the college kids. And when you see this kid, it's going to be an adjustment for anybody. But if there's a kid that can make it interesting, it wouldn't surprise me. His upside for me is much greater than Bunting's in the long run. Again, it's just the time you've got to put in. But if there's any kid, and I don't know him as a person, he certainly plays a mentally tough game in college.

It's obviously different. You've got to see with any of those kids what it's like when the cage comes off because he likes to throw his weight around. And on an Olympic ice surface, that's great. Is it a little change? I don't know when the cage comes off and he's got, you know, guys with beards standing around spitting venom at him. But this kid is a special hockey player who I think has the ability.

He'd be the first player. If like whenever, like they talk about like a Chikorin or a big name or a Dumba or insert name here, whatever it was like a Josh Manson, but I would not, I would not even pick up the phone unless Kyle was ready to talk about moving these.

He's got what I feel about him as a player. And clearly, like Robertson, this kid scores goals, right? But it's hard to convince people when he's not good enough to be consistently in your lineup that he's going to be the answer somewhere else. Now, he very well, maybe he is, but that being said, it's like those conversations on the phone are like, well, you know, we can't even, you're coach, you're, you know, you're dead. You've got all these injuries and you can't even find a spot for him in your

own lineup. You know, how, why, why is he the key shiny piece you want to send me for a proven NHL player? It's just, it's, it's kind of getting on the same page. Like I was thinking about tonight, like to Chuck, it's like, you know, Brad Treloving spends the whole summer, you know, for a two-week period that just seems genius. You know, he didn't take, like, he didn't say I won the summer, but that was like, wow, did he come out of that?

You know, and then he wraps it up with eight-year contracts, puts up the welcome mat, and you open the door, and there's a pit bull staring at you named Daryl Sutter. And it's like you've got to have that comfort level with your coach believing in the players and giving you that kind of – if you're trying to promote somebody and move somebody, give them an opportunity and put them where in place you can succeed so at least the asset looks shiny when people are coming in to watch.

What's more nerve-wr racking for you a game seven or um getting a car with your daughter right now that's a very good analogy first of all getting in the getting in the car with my daughter is an absolute pleasure and a joy she likes to sing to herself i've got dean Lombardi never really sang beside me in a game seven. So we literally, the only game seven, it was our 2014. We won three of them on the road. That's right. And including the double OT, Marquise in Chicago. And I'll tell you, the feeling in the pit in my stomach.

Gross, eh? And watching my daughter not turn the right-hand signal on in an open parking lot at Barry Molson Center. There you go. Hey, Futes, great stuff today, man. Really appreciate your time. Thanks for doing this. Thanks, Kipper. See you, Maury.

Yeah, thanks, Futes. Good stuff. Yeah, really good stuff. I like this stuff on Nyes as well. Yeah, it's everything that I hear. There's a big swing on Nyes being untouchable. Oh. I'd throw him out there for the right guy.

I'll be honest. I haven't followed up on his season so far. I got to dig in because it is interesting. what would be you come in march probably april uh no march i think march yeah but ladder uh it all depends on how far they go right we're talking about he wants to win a national championship that's why he's back this year not trying to play for the toronto maple leafs in the nhl and win a stanley cup i know sammy loves that loves when guys return to college listen if they're offering something that's gonna help them like on the left wing on the second line it's gonna shoot in the net a lot and they want matthew nyes i'm gonna include it well i think the idea

is that's supposed to be him yeah but it's supposed to be him okay it's it's too much to ask sorry well it is but uh you're gonna have you're gonna have a number of games to really assess that too and it's nice comes in and there's only upside yeah there's only ups he's gonna sign he's turning pro we know that a lot of people the leafs were hoping it was going to be last year yeah so. The championship game for NCAA is April 8th. April 8th. Thanks, Brando. Yeah.

Hopefully they're out before then. And the season's over, what, April 16? April 12? Oh, the NHL season? Yeah. Yeah, around that. Yeah. Yeah, he'll be back.

It is heartbreaking to think, like, the Leafs losing game seven by a goal. He wouldn't be the first guy to score his first NHL goal in a playoff game. I think Kael McCarty, he's done okay. His career's panned out just fine. Sportsnet, PR, social media. Matthew Nyes will be as good as Kael McCarty.

That was Justin Bourne. Go with it. Go with it, Fab. I was just looking back to that first cup that the... The second one actually was more the... Sorry, the Cinderella Cup for them, kind of. The Kings?

Oh, yeah. I was just looking back at their games. I forgot about Gabrick. God, they had some sweaty games. This series against... That was a disaster re-sign, by the way. Right from the get-go that's one of the better lines we've had from a guest on our show he was giving me the show me the money sign we should have shown him the exit yeah so game uh so against the they played the blackhawks

in the conference finals they won in seven games like he was mentioning uh the last three games were all one goal games the one that the chicago one went to ot and they won the series in ot against the blackhawks in game seven yeah the kings made the chicago one went to ot and they won the series in ot against the black hawks in game seven yeah the kings made the playoffs as an eight seed right like they good vancouver too really good vanc it does sound like we're gonna see nick robertson tomorrow night does it yeah he's in already you know why mulligan's not in do you see him pull shoot on a four check up oh i saw that first to. I saw that. Your first to the puck by a body length. Thank you for bringing that up because I'm watching it going,

did he think it was icing? Did he, he just, he made, he was like, Butz's daughter putting the left turn signal on and leaving the lane, the lane, right? Oh, too much traffic here. Let's move to the left lane. He did not want to take that hit. Two goals, hold it on the yellow.

You can't show that in November and think, like, I'm counting on you in April. Right. I thought that was over for him. Yeah, he was so good for a bit and stuff like that. And it's like, oh, well, now Robertson gets another chance. I saw the same play. And as soon as it happened, I was like, oh, God, Kipper's going to be pissed.

Like, I legitimately had that thought to myself. You know what blew my mind last night? And I looked this up because it kind of, I don't know, whatever I thought of it after that play. He has played as many games in the NHL as Justin Hall. Or just about. He's got 210 NHl games for dennis mulligan halls at 230 220 and are the majority in florida where are they yeah florida i think

all the rest are in florida but he's played a lot of hockey in the nhl yeah i don't know that was a surprising shouldn't be surprised that he's able to play in the league but stuff like that's got to cut that out of your game all right we. We got Eric Francis, senior columnist with Sportsnet. He's coming up after the break. We're going to get right into Matthew Kachuk. Yeah. What do you think? Oh, man.

Did you see his gesture after his goal last night? Gave it the, who's the wrestler? I don't even know. Doug Kachuk. There it is. What actor was that? Gilbert Gottfried. There you is. What actor was that? Gilbert Gottfried. There you go.

God rest his soul. Thank you. We're going to ask Eric Francis if we're going to see that same gesture in Calgary. No chance. Let's ask Eric Francis. After the break, you're watching and listening to Real Kipper and Born on the YouTube channel and Sportsnet now this is real kipper and born on sportsnet 590 the van nine games on tap tonight

none bigger Florida Panthers in Calgary which means when Matthew Kachuk returns to the scene of the crime

what kind of response are we going to get tonight I was hoping to ask Eric Francis that let's pass the buck on that what do you think off the top I was hoping to ask Eric Francis that. Oh, yeah, let's pass the buck on that. Move this man! Move! What do you think off the top?

Video tribute? Yes, for sure. Video tribute? I'd say mixed reviews. A little of both. Okay, so where is the video tribute? Is it like halfway through the first period? Is it at the beginning

i i would do it uh yeah well let's ask eric francis he joins us senior columnist with sports net uh eric thanks for uh thanks for coming on uh i know it's a big night there so tell me what your thoughts are and the vibe right now. Well, first of all, Kipper, I love where you're going with that. I think we're on the same wavelength. You better get that video out early. You know Matthew Kachuk. And, you know, don't spoil a good moment. If that guy gets one face wash in, this crowd will turn on him instantly. So I think in terms of your question, the vibe is, you know,

it's somewhat mixed, but I'd say I think 80% of the people are going to give him a huge, great standing ovation. I think there'll be some boos in there, but I guarantee by night's end, it'll be all boos. I love that. I love that there will be an inevitable progression just because you kind of know what the player is all about. How do fans

there feel? If you're just running into someone at the grocery store, how do they feel about Kachuk? You know, it's funny how time heals, right? I mean, when he left, everyone was so stung by Johnny Gajot leaving the flames at the altar that everyone was like, wow, at least Matthew did it the right way.

He broke up with us with respect. He gave us the ring back, and that's sort of breakup. But at the end of the day, breakups are breakups, and inevitably you look back and you're sour. So I would say the average person at the grocery store right now is like, man, I really want to watch that game. I really want to see how long it takes for him to turn the crowd against him because there's 30 other rinks in the league who hate his guts.

Why should Calgary be any different? I know for years they loved him, and with good reason. I think he's an absolute unicorn in the NHL. But, you know, all good things must come to an end. Your thoughts when you saw the hand gesture to the Oiler fans off his goal? And he wouldn't dare try that tonight, would he? I don't think so. I don't think he would.

I mean, I think he still has so much respect for this city, the fans. I would be shocked if he did something like that. Now, if he scores an overtime winner, I'm not sure the emotion in him would allow him to refrain from doing something like that. I don't know. He loves this city. There was never any question about that. I mean, he had six phenomenal years here. The organization treated him like gold, as did the city and the fans. loves this city. There was never any question about that. I mean, he had six phenomenal years here. Organization treated him like gold, as did the city and the fans.

I think I actually am really thinking he's not going to pull any of his antics. To be honest, guys, I think he wants, you know, I've talked to him about this. I think he wants to be known more as a Brad Marchand 2.0 as opposed to

Brad Marchand kissy face or licky face whatever it was you know like he wants to be known for the 104 points he got last season matthew kachuk is a top 10 15 score in the national hockey league he was last year he was this year actually saw a stat in the calendar year of 2022 only one player has more points than him, more points than him, and that's Connor McDavid. And I think it's only like two points. So in the calendar year, he's arguably, you know, top two or three scorer in the National Hockey League.

So that's – the antics have been few and far between over the last year and a half, but we always just remember him because we know he's got that capability deep down inside to sometimes you just can't resist. Okay, I get it. And he wants to be known as a 100-point guy and a skilled guy. And they've got that in Huberto. But I will say this, that Calgary isn't where they needed to be. It was built up.

And, listen, everybody was giving tree living executive of the year for being able to turn a such a negative into a positive yet i'm watching this calgary team this year at nine and nine i think and um dare i say it they miss him and do we just go back, Eric, and understand how special that line was last year with him and Johnny Hockey and Lindholm and how good they were. But the element outside of the skill of a 100-point guy was that intangible that he brought with his I-don't-know-what-he's-going-to-do-to-me-next feel.

Yeah. Do they miss him? Oh my god, huge. They miss Johnny Gaudreau and Matthew Kachuk, huge. What team in the National Hockey League wouldn't miss having the number one line in hockey? Period. You take the number one

line in hockey and you disband and you only have one guy left and he can't seem to fit in with any of the other and you got nothing uh this team is struggling right now to score goals like i think they're 24th in the league and goals scored i figured they'd be about 15th to 20th i knew there'd be a huge drop off last year they were six and it was all on the power of that one line. So, yeah, hey, Kipper, you know, and, Borny, you know too, like in an average NHL season, if you've got the number one line in hockey, they could probably win you 30 games just all by themselves. Like on nights when the rest of the team is junk,

those guys just show up, get their six or seven points between them, and win the game all by themselves. Now the Flames don't even have one single top line, let alone having a formidable line at all. They're struggling with chemistry from top to bottom in this lap. And to your point, Kipper, it's so true.

20 games ago, the way this team's looked at is completely different from the way this team's looked at now. It's a lot of things have fallen through. Well, and so we focused a lot here on the absence of those guys. Give us the state of affairs of what's going on with the Flames. So obviously the problem is they're not getting goal scoring. That seems to be consensus.

What else is happening with the Flames right now so people watching this game have a context on their season? Well, the other thing that they're not really good at is stopping the puck and then when you when you when you score that much and you can't you can't stop it that much you're damn lucky to be 500 right now to be honest um hey we knew there'd be we knew there'd be growing pains but i don't think one of the growing pains anybody anticipated was that the goaltending would really struggle. And right now, like a week ago, they were the last in the league in team save percentage. Like that's, I don't know if there's a more important stat out there for goaltenders,

but to me, that is the most important one. And they're dead last in the league. Jacob Markstrom is really just not found his niche. He's had a little spurt, but for the most part, his save percentage is under 900, and his goals against is over three guys. Like, that's not NHL-caliber goaltending. And the funny thing was, when people looked at the Flames team,

they said, okay, well, they lost a couple 40-goal scores, but they're just going to win games 2-1 and 3-2. They've got that great blue line everybody's raving about. They've got those three great centers, as good as any team in the league, and they've got a Vesna finalist in net. Like, boy, this team is perfect to win 2-1 games. Well, guess what? They're leading the league and giving up the lead, too.

They can't lock it down when they get a lead. So there's a lot going on right now. If I'm sounding overly negative, it's because right now they are in a tailspin. But I don't think there's any question this team will get better. And a lot of these, you know, the chemistry issues will be resolved. Jonathan Huberto will find his touch again. Markstrom will find his form again. But right now it's a real struggle all around for this team.

Eric, where would this put Daryl Sutter going through this right now? At his best or maybe at his worst, at his best? That's such a good question. I feel for the guys in the room. We generally joke in the media that when he's being really nice to us in the media, he's being really, really hard on the players. He's killing them. He's just really, really hard on the players. He's killing them. He's just killing them.

I can't imagine how horrible it is to be in that dressing room right now, dealing with the misery of a coach like that who, in the best of times, doesn't allow them to enjoy wins or have fun. At the worst of times, I don't even want to go there. Kipper, you've talked to players around the league i have borne you too you guys know how legendary it is to be on a daryl sutter team when things are going sideways and they're going sideways right now so he's trying to keep a stiff upper lip and a brave face in the media which tells me that he's just crushing these guys behind closed doors

how about uh any in positives for this team what's gone well for the flames so far this season i know you mentioned it's in a tailspin three straight losses here there's some bright sides any shining spots for you nikita's the door off is playing like a top line center in the national top line defenseman sorry he's been absolutely phenomenal their best defenseman by far wow uh shutter set it from day one. He's absolutely annihilating guys with his size and his physicality, which Sutter loves. And he's also contributing a little bit offensively.

He's blocked in shots with the best of eight shots blocked the other day. So Nikita Zub is certainly a bright spot for this team. But, you know, if your fifth defenseman is your bright spot, it says a lot about where you are right now. And Michael Backlund's been really, really good too, but just doesn't have a whole lot to show for it offensively. But defensively, he's been their best forward. I don't think there's any question.

And as far as Huberto is concerned, still the benefit of the doubt to get used to things? I don't know. The neighborhood? I have no idea. But where are they with Jonathan? Well, my son is not a teen here today, and he's definitely not used to that in Florida for the last 10 years.

So, hey, he's not used to a million different things. The guy had to sell his Lambo, too, and trade it for a pickup truck. Like, there's so many different things that are really adversely affecting this guy right now. I think at the end of the day, I can't really put my finger on it because we haven't seen any semblance of the playmaking star that got 115 points last year. I think it all boils down to the fact that he played on a team last year that basically plays shinny hockey. And when we run hockey, just go out and score as many goals

and hopefully we can stop more than we score. And here you're in a massive structured system where there are lanes and all these rules. And I think that just takes a long time for him and McKenzie Weger to get used to. They've talked about it openly, and, you know, they still quite don't have the hang of it. So that, to me, is the reason why. Plus, he's not playing with a Barkov anymore or a Greggie or anything like that.

He's playing with Tyler Tafola. He's played pretty well this year. I should say that, too. He's been a pretty good start for them. And him in the last, we don't have any chemistry. And don't forget the other big guys. He's been on the third line for the last, I don't know, for the last, the bulk of the last dozen games.

Daryl Sutter's jump and Huberto playing on the third line. And a lot of people would think that that's a big mistake because it cuts down on the minute he's playing the more minutes he plays the more chance he has to get comfortable and finally figure this system out you know the the one thing that's you know outside of huberto that i was curious about is how cadre would look he's at his first year of a seven year seven million per season deal this season he's the highest paid player in the team you know going through his numbers he's no points in the last five games

and playing 16 minutes a night. What's going on with Kadri? You know, it's absolutely – I was just out having lunch and ran into some fans, and it's unanimous in this city. For the first 10 or 12 games, it doesn't – Kadri was even better than it now ties. People could not believe it, saying, oh, my God, that guy's going to get even more

than the 87 points he got last year in Colorado. What a leader. Put the captaincy on him. The last 12 games or 11 games, whatever it's been, invisible. And not for lack of effort. You know, I got to give him credit. He's always out there. He's still great defensively.

And he can always give you that. You know, great defensively, and he can always give you that. That's one thing Huber can't give you, that Caudrey can't. When things are struggling offensively, he can still be an amazing second-line center, one of the best in the league. The offense has dried up completely. I think he's got three or four points in the last 12 games, something like that. It's not good enough. This team is needing goals more than anything, and he's part of the problem right now.

Okay, I'm going to ask you one more because I want to just revisit something that you said earlier, and I want Sammy and JB to know I would have asked you this even if I didn't go through this crap this morning on a morning show, and you don't need to concern yourself with that, Eric. But I would have asked you this anyway. When you said that Kachuk didn't leave them at the altar, I want to know if he kind of reset the bar for UFA stars on doing that,

or will we still see some play out their final year and slip away? Ooh. I have no idea what happened to the moisture, but I'm going to kind of guess. On your morning show this summer, when I said to everybody, hey, Toronto, guess what? You're next. Oh!

Am I right? I'm just asking you if Kachuk reset that whole thinking. I think I would agree. And since he's gone to Florida, I just saw him down there. His house is spectacular. He's living the absolute dream life that any NHL hockey player could ever want.

Players are going to see that he decided to take a stand. Yeah, you take a few bullets at the beginning because you're leaving. He's really mad at you. But at the end of the day, you end up where you're going to be the happiest in a great city, in a great environment. It's going to happen to Austin Matthews. But I'm just saying, there's a real good chance It's going to happen to Austin Matthews, but I'm just saying there's a real good chance it's going to happen to Austin Matthews.

Hey, and there's no Eric Francis or Mark Spector breathing down his neck. That's what they love, getting away from guys like you. Absolutely, and even the speculation that we're throwing out there right now. You know, and he was asked about it when he got to camp, and he basically said, you know, I'm really happy here. This is my second home. Okay.

Matthew Kachurk at his final press conference of the year, and Tony Gajoba, by the way, both raved about this city. And now they're both absolutely interested in signing long-term deals to come back. I don't expect an athlete to say anything other than that. You have to say that. But when push comes to shove, follow your dream. And Matthew Kachuk's dream was to go live where it's never minus 19. Eric, always thankful for you to come on and share your insights,

especially with a game like tonight. Thanks for doing this. Cheers, boys. Enjoy the game. What was your prediction on when the first boos come out? You know, I think when the video comes, when the tribute video comes. Yeah, no, no. I think in the first

five minutes for sure. First touch? Yeah. I hope so. I hope so anyways. There's a long history of booing. I was like dowdy and every, like every single time they touch the puck, like it gets kind of annoying for a while. I guess that is a possibility.

We'll see. Thanks, Eric. We appreciate you, man. All right. Eric Francis. Uh,

yeah. So I'm not going to blame you for the morning show bit but you had to do it again on our show I would have done it for sure I'm just asking Matthew Kachuk is going back in there's relevance here do you think

do you think as a this could be Matthew's this could be anybody going in, do star players now owe their organization to be up front? Unlike Johnny Goudreau and John Tavares with the Islanders. They don't owe them anything. All right. They don't, right?

You know what I think the players see? I think they see the NBA. And I think they see the player empowerment era. And I think they see guys making deals to play in a back hall and making it happen because they want to. And I think they think, why can't we have that? I'm going to Sammy, super fan Sammy, and I'm

going back. I'm going back there. I'm sorry that i'm going to sammy super fan sammy and i'm i'm going back i'm going back there i'm sorry i'm going back there july 1st no contract for austin matthews how concerned would you be to hear that uh we're gonna take it slow and uh we're we're talking and uh we're good we'll keep the lines of communication open how how good are you there how concerned was colorado when he didn't sign on July 1st, Nathan McKinnon? You know, it's just like, it's a different situation, I understand. But, like, it went into the preseason before he signed a contract. I'm not in panic mode.

I'm thinking about it. Okay. But, like, I don't like the comparison between Calgary. Like, it's a completely different situation. This is the mecca of hockey. This is Toronto. You're the biggest star in the league. I think there's certainly bigger risk

for long-term reputational damage if you spurn Toronto versus spurning... You know, the Flames are still a big organization. Yeah, but they ain't the Leafs, boys. It's Canada. They ain't the Leafs. Come on, Kipper. I know you want to stir it up,

but they're not even close to the Leafs in terms of relevance and what you can do off the ice. Anything better than beating the Leafs? They're relevant to their fan base in Calgary. And the season ticket holders. They don't give a crap. No, but for Austin Matthews, considering his career, it is relevant that Toronto is Toronto.

Yes. And making that decision is leaving here on good terms or staying here or whatever. If he doesn't sign July 1st, you're still comfortable that he could sign at Christmas. No, no one's going to be comfortable with that. No. But it also isn't doomsday, I don't think.

I agree. I am with that as well. Until you hear that he does leave, right? Then it's doomsday. Yes. The day he signs for another team is when I panic. I'll panic a little bit when he doesn't sign July 1st. But listen, I just...

I wish we weren't doing this right now no i 100 agree with that too but i sorry but uh katuk's going back into a place where he had the courtesy to tell them i'm not going to string you along for the the final year right i want to leave and i want to leave now do you think austin matthew should do that now no absolutely not i'm just saying if he does have the feel should he do it july 1st for for the leafs a fair question you know and when we get there in my opinion when we do the july 1st show we could talk about it now you know me like i like to get ahead of everything and it's coming i know i see see the vehicle's coming, too. I think everyone sees it coming.

But it's November. I know. I don't think comparing Calgary and Toronto are the same thing. I just... Kipper, you've been around this team your whole life. I don't understand. Like, it's just... They've got their fan base.

The Leafs have their fan base. Oh, come on. It's the same. No, you don't believe me. Oh, come on. You don't believe the Leafs and the Flames are equal. In what, revenue? Of course not. In what revenue of course not in terms of what in terms of what marketing power popularity around popularity that meant nothing to matthew kachuk and i don't think it means anything to austin matthews yes it does

matthews is the number one guy who wants to be the big star in the big market he's that guy okay then he's signing. End of story. He wears the fanciest outfits. He likes to be a superstar. He likes to be under the spotlight. At the very least, he would like to not be booed by Toronto every time. I like Calgary. If you feel that's important and that's a huge hook for him,

then I'd buy that he'd stay on those circumstances. 100%. Good team, good organization. He broke us into extrapolating it out and talking about it. He's doing it. I don't mind. I'm fine with that. I'm good for you to say, hey, listen, he's not going anywhere.

He loves it here. He's going to make $2 million in endorsements. Hold on. It's fine. I got no problem with that. You might be right. Listen, I think there's a possibility that on July 1st or whatever, we're talking about him, but I kind of bristle at the conversation I bristle at,

and I've said it multiple times here, and I'll follow up one more time, is that Calgary signing for the Flames and Matthews signing for the Leafs are comparable situations. They're not comparable situations, in my opinion. The only thing that it is is they're Canadian teams and they're not comparable situations in my opinion the only thing that it is is they're canadian teams and they're american players that's the only hated by calgary or hated by toronto it is different and i don't even think it's about the hatred it's about the stardom yeah matthews loves being a superstar there's nowhere he's gonna say you can oh yeah go sign in la where you're gonna be bought the what the 15th most popular rus Russell Westbrook, they cared 10 times more about him.

You won't even get mentioned on the radio in LA. You're not going to be even close. Sammy, I think I'm watching. Go play in a college barn in Arizona. I think I'm watching a few good men right now because you're making an argument. I like it. You're taking a stance. You're giving me reason to think that he's staying. I like it. You're taking a stance. You're giving me reason to think that he's staying.

I like it. Calgary. Yeah, I am. Listen, he's staying, boys. I'm pissed off about it now. You did it, Kipper. You son of a bitch. I just knew it was coming today.

I was like, I vowed not to get judged. Lisa Red Hot. Matthew Kachuk in Calgary tonight. I cannot wait. Buddy, by the time we're having this conversation, I'll be able to go inside with my tarp off. It's not even winter yet we're having this conversation. Oh, my God.

And you are steaming back there. I'm hot. I love it. All right. What else we got in the news? Somebody told me that Flyers and Islanders, I got a text, and all it said was, you're not going to want to miss the start of this one.

Do we have any back story on why they might be angry at one another? Yeah. Didn't they go at it the last time? Well, I did see Wahlstrom drag Tony D'angelo around there you go by his lips the other night that was fun so the two names i heard was ross johnson and nick deloria oh that's a heavy that's two coke machines we go yeah i remember what do you think i'm ross johnson's a big dude but deloria's gotta be what is he the heavy the toughest guy in the league right now mcdermott right up there yeah that's a that's a heavyweight tilt i i just can't imagine being either of those guys knowing the next game you got to get into that sort of thing i remember

sitting there with my dad at a pub and watching dallas and boston i don't know 10 years ago everyone dropped the gloves off the start we haven't seen something like that in a long time we're doing there's some bad blood tonight so we'll we'll keep an eye on that of course as we mentioned uh uh calgary and florida tonight how about florida last night they're up four to three with nine seconds left and a face-off in their own end against the oilers and they lose i mean florida's did both teams lose that trade well i i tell you what there's some people that say that uh they're they're worse than last year calgary and everybody said that they're deeper and they're better

florida lost so many guys though like yes they're without huberto yes they're better. Florida lost so many guys, though. Like, yes, they're without Huberto. Yes, they're without Wieger. They're also without Marchment. They had Sherrod at one point. They had Giroux at one point. They had a half a dozen good players that just left. They're without seven guys from last. They're a different team.

And when we heard about the trade, the first thing I thought was, like, Jonathan Huberto, where is he going to fall into the Daryl Sutter hockey? And we just heard from Eric moments ago talk about that whole, I don't know, what was the reference he used to Florida? Like pickup hockey or shinny hockey? And I'm like, I can't think of a guy that Daryl would want less than someone coming from a shinny hockey program. Yeah, but guys like Darryl also like guys who score. And Huberto had 100 and some points last year. You would think he would be like, okay, Goudreau did that for me.

He can be the next Goudreau. He did it doing the east-west thing. Goudreau did. Or Huberto did. Huberto did. But that's not Darryl's north south man he's not east west you don't think he opens up his horizons a little bit based on his roster or what you know allows guys to have success no i mean it's not working right now what's he have 10 points is

that bad yeah it is that it's 10 points three and seven wow yeah so you know on the other hand i think kachuk's just not enough there's just not enough depth and they're in uh tremendous cap issues yeah and there's not enough there for him to to make a difference on most nights right now yeah they're they're in tight they're in tight to make a difference on most nights right now yeah they're they're in tight they're in tight to make playoffs this year for florida you know i think they're going to be a hundred point team in and around which barely get in last year at that well i think i think if we're saying who won that trade it's still if now seeing this sort of through however many games 25 games if you're grading it i think you still say i think you say florida won now because they got the best player in the trade and like you can you know they have

them for a long time and they can kind of build around that and figure stuff out but i ten and a half or huberto for eight years cadre seven by seven yeah they they committed to it got pretty horned up there in the summer i had what uh and something. Jonathan Huberto is at what, 11? 10 and a half. 10 and a half starting next year. Starting next year. That might have been, I'm not sure a lot of teams would have gone north of nine. Really?

Yes. I personally think that they were so in PR mode on getting a new hero that I think that they overpaid maybe a million, a million and a quarter a year on Jonathan. I think he could have got away with signing him nine times seven. What's interesting is I wonder if huberto and them talked about numbers and then he said okay i'm also leaving a no tax state and whatever you know you got to give me another one because i'm coming to canada and committing to being here

and yeah you can ask you can ask you don't have to give it you're right right he had 30 goals and 115 points last year which is a record record for left wingers, wasn't it? Gigantic numbers. 85 assists. 85 assists. That's Joe Thornton. Yeah, that's great vision right there when you can do that. Yeah.

All right, we had a signing today. 8.45 million in Dallas. Rupe Hintz. What do you think? i think it's great i love rupee hints this guy is awesome even when he doesn't score fast big kills penalties gets points what else do you want you like it 6-3-2-15 flying around gotta be a point per game you know 24.20 for me it just reminds me of of hearing uh tage lemieux and buffalo sign his long-term deal and you're like first of all you're like is that a good bet yeah is he a star is he i mean that's usually your your star players and that's that's where the industry's going with those mid-25-year-olds, right?

You got it. Roll the dice. You have to hedge on the future. And did you not all think that Tage was overpaid off one 30-goal season? And now it's looking like a steal. I know. They should pay him more. They should pay him more. He's got goal last night at Senti, guys. Oh, my God. This long. Lemieux's not like a steal. I know. They should pay him more. They should pay him more.

He's got goal last night I sent you guys. Oh, my God. This is long. Lemieux is not a bad assessment. Give Kevin Adams full credit here for just knowing what he had or what he thought he had or how special that this guy can be. Yeah. And those are sick hands all season long.

Yeah. Those are human highlight reel goals that are coming at a fairly decent rate it's actually you know he's getting to the point where you go where is he in the league wide conversation of superstars of like if you know i always use the example if you put every player in the league in the middle and let gm start picking one by one how soon does thompson go first rounder he goes in the top 30 guys i think i mean he is to me he's yeah elite score huge young all-star break show we'll do that i like that like that idea all the players in the pile we all pick a starting lineup all right um just have a draft yeah that's why we'll have our own draft. Rupe Hintz.

I know this is, I love Finnish players. Yeah, me too. I've always had a soft spot for the Finns. I really, really. Ready. I just, I respect them. I revere them. I love the Finns.

So getting a good score in Finn like that, they're hard-nosed players. I love the Finns. Very hard to make angry. All right. Really? Yeah. Well, in my experience as teammates is teammates on the ice they'll be yeah they're just easy going like the swedes yeah yeah yeah they are uh i think so the guys i

played with anyway were pretty most excited swede i played with i don't know very unexcitable that's good you want that remember callie uh uh johansson cali johansson like he played 23 minutes he'd take his equipment off you know you know those stanfield blue underwears yeah they're usually drenched waterlogged he'd have like a little dot but in the middle of his chest that was like i'm like you don't sweat you don't get nervous yeah you're like jagermeister it doesn't matter you know i mean you live the perfect life my friend you know my dad always blamed uh the swedish players on his team for getting him into the chew you know because he had the stall besides between two swedes and the islanders um anders kaller and uh and i forget who the other guy was but he said that they used to have like a little

thing like almost like a little syringe thing and it wasn't a syringe but it was just like a thing you would pack into the snooze container and it would pack a little one and they would just like and just like shoot it into the upper lip and leave it in all day guys would play with this thing and it would just erode their upper lip until they had this pocket up there oh my dad's video two and 40 years since or whatever it's been but we don't recommend you kids filthy i forget who was stay away from this stuff my dad said some guys would have like a or whatever it's been. We don't recommend you kids. Filthy. I forget who was. Stay away from this stuff. My dad said some guys would have like a pocket,

those guys. It would be a hole. Yeah, like almost up to their eye. They just leave something up there all day. Guys would tell me that you'd have to rotate the mouth. Yeah, because they would like cut your lip. And you'd have to heal it on that side. So you throw it on the left side of your gum for

the next six weeks yeah it's disgusting habit you see cappin in out there like there's always like there's always like a bottle packs now they put the pack there's always a bottle in the room that i'd accidentally spill listen as a kid i drank out of a couple coke bottles regrettable experiences i can tell you i just threw up in my mouth yeah not disgusting okay let's change the subject please okay uh do we have a goalie interference problem in the league no according to uh connor hellebuck you know what i if you want to talk about goalies that amazes me as if you want to talk about the power of the leafs and talk about austin matthews and why he wants to stay or whatever the power of the leafs i've never Austin Matthews and why he wants to stay or whatever. The power of the Leafs. I've never heard more conversation

about moorings. That's coming off you. That was a national referendum on moorings. That's why you're trending, Kipper. You tweeted a video. I've listened to Freed on 32 Thoughts. He's like, yeah, they're digging around the league talking about all the different ice crews and all this stuff. I think I started that one, too.

You did. You got a little pissed off about that there are a number of like varieties of ways to more the net to where it is and yeah we we got to have something a little stronger do we not are we blaming the you're blaming the goalies well don't remember a long time ago a few players had their yes buttholes ripped out because the net wouldn't come off. Yeah. That, I believe, was it Mark Howe? Yeah. Oh, God, that was tough. Like, I mean, it's a safety issue, and yet it's one that...

No, it's got to come off. There's no doubt. It has to come off on contact, but it's just looking a little too easy, in my opinion. And I know we've had this conversation where, where do you draw that line if it's a hard play? I mean, we've watched enough games to know what's a legit you know slide over to stop a puck and what might be a just a yeah

you know and but the hellebuck thing is different from that well he lost his helmet right and he wanted a whistle right away when he's down there's no helmet the other team has possession and the rest are going not play on and he's going should i goaltend then with no helmet what do you want from me here yeah and to be honest with you yeah the nhl just basically told him yeah uh try to keep your helmet on and play on well that's i'm telling you that's that's what they're telling them but they can't do that i understand they are but like that has to change i don't know and connor did i don't get that sense right now that uh that they're really overly concerned about goaltenders right now well that's okay ridiculous they're like uh we want offense okay nobody wants to see a one nothing game that's what they're

telling them okay well i mean i'm just telling you it's just such a rarity that their helmets come off and hellebuck's point was that if a player has their helmet come off, they're allowed to finish the play that they're in, and then they have to get off the ice. But this one went back to the point. Two passes. Ding, ding. They got time.

They wind up. A shot from the point. Hellebuck's like, at that point, it's not immediately following the play. You got to protect the human. In theory. Unless the league's just like to hell with you guys. following the following the play you gotta protect the human in theory that's the league just like to hell with you guys but um yeah i think in theory you're right yeah but it's do you think they should stop the play uh yeah i think i think you gotta yeah i'm okay with maybe a pass or two maybe three tech tech to harlem globe

doing the weave out there yeah to me it's like if the goalie has his helmet off and has to decide whether to goaltend or not let's flag this down before he makes the hard decision between the eyes i do gotta well they played without him for 100 years you know with mad scrambles and uh who's got what chin strap, it might be easy to kind of knock a helmet off. Well, that's the other risk, because I've played with a goalie who used to knock his own helmet off in scrums to get the refs to blow it down.

He'd give it the old shruggeroo. All right, fun show, Sammy? Had a blast. Except the Matthew stuff. There we are. You got a good reaction on me, which you wanted, so mission accomplished, Kipper. Way to go. go stop it i'm not clickbait baby oh yeah the sports net pr social media pr i didn't i didn't clip anything i didn't put anything out on social media i blame

them all right all right our thanks to eric franc Yep. Mike Fuda. So you. And, of course, this great team here at Real Kipper and Born. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. Give us a rating and review. Thumbs up. We're back tomorrow. Have a great night, everybody.