Real Kyper & Bourne - Can the Canucks Be Contained?

Episode Date: November 6, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start the national hour on the scorching Canucks, whose torrid stretch continued with a shutout win over the Stars on Saturday. They are joined by Canucks analyst Dan Murphy (3:14), who shares his thoughts on the great vibes in Vancouver, the instant impact of their offseason additions, why Filip Hronek is the perfect pair for Quinn Hughes and what separates Rick Tocchet as a difference-making head coach. Afterward, a conversation about a Canadian team on the opposite end of the spectrum with the Oilers in a deep hole, and if it's unfair to place all the blame on coach Jay Woodcroft. Finally, news and notes from around the league, including Brady Tkachuk calling out the fans in Ottawa, a disasterclass from the Sharks and Fred Anderson being shelved long term for the Hurricanes.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates. 

we are real kipper and born this is the national edition i'm nick kiprios justin born hello sammy mckee and we are live on sports and sports that 650 in vancouver always sports net 960 in calgary and this hour of real kipper and born brought to you by bet 365 boys the canucks remain red hot they're the best team of all time and tonight facing the edmonton oilers on a great doubleheader right here on Sportsnet on Monday Night Hockey. If I would have told you that Vancouver would have the record they have and Edmonton has the record they have, you would have looked at me like I was growing a third eye.

About what? Three weeks ago? Four weeks ago? Stunning. Honestly, we were kind of doing pre-show prep today and sammy goes the vegas gold knights have 23 points and the oilers have five that is the gap the only team remotely near that vegas team is the canucks in that division with 17 i guess they're ahead of the kings are there but well i mean like the canucks are right there second in the division eight two and one plus 26

goals plus 26 patient void your san jose games from your goal differential though yeah saturday night by far uh their most impressive showing over 60 minutes with all due respect to what uh san jose and a couple against Nashville. This was beating a team that we have contending for a Stanley Cup in Dallas. For sure. But, I mean, they also hung in with the Rangers, right? The pretty good Rangers team. Yeah, it could have easily had better results there than the loss in overtime. Yeah, I mean, beat the Panthers.

They've played some good hockey outside of just the taking care of business when they had to. And, you know, we had Rick talk it on this show. When your best players are playing this well, it makes a world of difference. And it also helps that their best player may be Thatcher Demko or one of them anyway.

In a few minutes, we're going to welcome in Dan Murphy. Of course, we know him well here as the host of On Hockey Night in canada and canucks hockey on on sports net uh and we'll get his thoughts on i think just how's it happening surprise i know just the surprise in terms of where we thought they would be where they would be in in the rebuild the program and the first question we're going to probably ask them is is it sustainable yeah i think that's a totally fair ask and i think the answer he's going to give is different than it would have been in years past i think that there's a lot genuinely there god if you are let's say, a sports company in Canada with NHL rights, hypothetically,

Saturday night was a tough night. Leafs lose, the Oilers lose again, Flames lose, I think the Jets lost, the Sens lose. You know one guy who doesn't care is Dan Murphy. You're right. Couldn't care about all those rest of the losses across the country because it seems like dan and maybe a few canuck fans have been waiting a long time for uh a feeling like bucket what what what

we're waking up to uh for canuck fans uh a red hot vancouver canuck team and uh what are we looking at uh in our zoom call here dan on the top of your head by the way oh the uh the seahawks which just took a terrible beating yesterday at the hands of the ravens you know when the canucks are doing well you still had to expose yourself to something like that i've been a local guy all my life so i've been cursed with the seahawks. It's the only team that's ever won a championship in my lifetime, so I guess I should stick with them. Okay, Dan, before we get into specifics, just give us the overall feeling going into this week,

the vibe in Vancouver with a team that is 8-2-1. Well, the vibes are are high um with this team uh today tyler myers was asked so he's been around almost as long as anyone now i think brock besser and thatcher demko are maybe the two longest serving people with the organization but he's like you know winning is fun and he hasn't done a lot of winning uh in his time here in van in Vancouver. So I think guys are enjoying it. But you do get the sense, too, that every day, whether it be Talkett or a guy like Ian Cole or another veteran says, it's just a new day and we approach it the same as yesterday.

It doesn't matter we're 8-1 because they always revert in their answers to, we just have to keep building and who cares about those wins so i think that the coaching staff is hammering at home you know the whole cliche highs and lows thing uh but they're taking it to heart but certainly um you know after what i've witnessed the past decade uh the vibes are as high as they've been in a while so dan i uh spent some time last year i would join uh holford and brough in their program and talk about the Canucks, and I always say, I think they're better than their record. Like, there's more here with this roster.

It doesn't seem like the roster is that vastly different to suddenly be this much better. Is it just the additions of guys like Chronic, or is it really that these guys are all just playing better at the same time? I think it's a few things. And I'll start with your question. I think it is some of the additions.

When you think that they've added an NHL caliber or better than replacement level player, defenseman on every pair. It starts with Hronik on the top pair, right? He only played a handful of games last year before they shut him down. He's on the top pair, right? He only played a handful of games last year before they shut him down. He's on your top pair. You've got Ian Cole on your second pair with Mark Friedman now, who was recently traded for in that first road trip. And then you have Carson Soucy, who they added,

on the third player playing with Tyler Myers. So they revamped a half of their blue line and four-six of it when you go with Friedman now. So I think that's made a huge difference for this team, especially Hronik and Cole at this point. The other thing is that the team always seemed to be less than the sum of its parts. The players were always good, but individually, and it never really came together properly.

I think the head coach has done a lot of that. You just sense with the way they play now now with the pressure, the back pressure, the forwards, the breakouts, everything just looks better. I mean, and vastly better than it was the last couple of seasons. So I would say to me, and then you add the fact that when you have success, your top guys buy in and you're having, you know, the first month that Quinn Hughes had, that Pedersen had, that Miller had, that Demko had. I mean, I think all those things all add up to that 8-2-1 record. I want to talk to you a little bit about Filip Peronic. And we didn't know much about him.

Why would we? What was there to focus detroit the last few years and but yet they give up the first and the second to get him dan and at the time the vibe was what are they doing why would they give up future assets for for this guy and i think today especially after saturday night where he he logged 25 minutes minutes. Not many people are asking that question. So how good is he? Well, he's been very good. I was one of those people too at the end of last year.

Why are they spending? They made the trade to send Horvath away. They got the first round, so they had the extra first round pick. They used it in the deal for Hronik. And we were all saying at the time, like, that's pretty expensive for a team that, you know, still kind of seems, you know, iffy to make the playoffs next season for this season. You know, and I don't think I was the only one saying that. Jim Rutherford was on record at the start of the season saying, you know,

if everything goes right, this can be a playoff team. I'll say this. I didn't look at his numbers today, but prior to the Dallas game, five on five, he was leading the Canucks in ice time, Bronick. I think he was third in expected goals for. He didn't have the greatest start. Like I said, the first couple of games when the Canucks were still, they had that terrible second game against Edmonton,

and they won somehow. They got blown out by Philly. And, you know, the underlying numbers weren't great. They have steadily gotten better. And I think before before the season when we heard talk it say it's going to be you know kind of a defense by committee uh quinn hughes is going to have to play with a lot of guys well it's turned out to be a committee of one it's been her own it from the start and they've made a dynamic pair i think in an ideal world you'd have heronic running his own pair you know if this team really wants to get to the next

level and find someone to play with quinn uh but right now that that uh that twosome have been absolutely dynamic uh they went the first what eight games without being scored on in any situation uh as a pairing um he's been a real real good compliment to quinn you know in the past quinn's defensive partners have been like uh chris taniff uh uh luke sh Quinn you know in the past Quinn's defensive partners have been like Chris Tanov, Luke Shen you know kind of these bigger you know stay at home guys that break up the cycle well these two guys you know they defend with the quickness intelligence and they can both break the puck out by themselves so I think Hirona has been you know he's opened a lot of people's eyes in this market including mine. So you've been around the team for years and seen the different coaches and the energies

and the talk is different. There's a different sort of competitiveness to the way he carries himself on a day-to-day basis, I would say. What do you see about the talk at effect and sort of how this Canucks team is positioned with him going forward? Well, you guys would probably know better in terms of the X's and O's and the systems he's installed.

But I think a player like talk, it carries some weight with players, right? They know his history. They know what type of player he was. You know, he's got some equity as a player. So as a coach, they're going to listen to him. And then when you have success in the stuff he's preaching, it just reinforces it and then they'll go to the wall for him. So I think it's been it's been the type of coach this team is needed. Like some of these guys want to be coached. Guys like Quinn Hughes,son wants to learn. JT Miller, he wants to learn and he wants to be held accountable. We saw him be benched for the final four minutes of the power play. Which game was it? Nashville, I think. And then he came back out in the third with his usual line and he scored the insurance goal. I think these guys want that. They're dying for some success.

And I think when you have guys like that that will listen to a head coach and a head coach that wants to teach, wants to hold them accountable, as long as you're winning, they're going to listen to everything he says and take it all to heart. And I think he's been the perfect guy so far for them. And I wasn't sure last year. I mean, when Bruce took over, the team went on that great run, just missed the playoffs.

That was all just good vibes, go out and play. But we know that you need to have some structure in your game and like i said at the top it's it's looked night and day like the third period against dallas you know like last year if they went into a third period the two nothing lead you're like how much are they going to lose this by this time they went with the two nothing lead you're like you know i kind of think like they have this right just the way they had played the second period. They gave up nothing. And it just seems like there's that belief in that structure and it's really paying off.

We're joined by Dan Murphy, host of Hockey Night in Canada, Canucks Hockey on Sportsnet. We're talking hottest team in the country, the Vancouver Canucks. All this structure must be feeling like a godsend from uh for uh thatcher demko and just in terms of just the overall trust now that he must have in front of him has taken him to another level has it not yeah there's predictability for him right i mean remember the start he had last year he must have felt like he had to do everything, right? The defensive structure around him was not good.

You know, they didn't have the same caliber of defensemen in front of him. Now he knows that if the mistake's been made, it's not going to be compounded with a second and a third and more chances. And, you know, there's still going to be mistakes, and he's been there. I think he's 50 for 51 in high danger saves. He's left one high danger chance in this year. I mean, that's not going to continue. Like the old PDO, as you know, Justin, like the luck stat,

it's not going to stay where it is all year long. They're number one in the league. I think the Oilers are third last. It's going to regress. But when you have a talent like that in there, I think you know that he's Vesna caliber and he's going to make those tough saves. So I think for him, he's smiling. You know, he Miller said it is like, you know, you know, he doesn't have to bail us out all the time. You know, we're making it a little bit easier on him because, you know, he was the main reason why they won games in recent years.

And now he doesn't have to be uh and if he's brilliant like he often is uh there's going to be nights when they don't play great uh and he's gonna you know help them steal the odd win here and there and casey smith has been as well so i think you have to i mean i think you have to give management uh a lot of you know kudos too for the players they brought in uh the type of players they brought in we haven't seen teddy bluger yet but lafferty has been a good addition a poos suitor has been like a solid down the middle whose bottom line is starting to come around so they brought in these types of players that were very good defensively more two-way players and it's paid off and really

helped out the likes of badger demko who doesn't need a whole lot of help murph this is a little bit like asking someone who's been an eyewitness at a crime scene but what are the sharks like what's what what i mean what what's happening i almost felt bad yeah you know like that's not a good feeling to inspire in people you're a hockey team no and then you know their top couple of top guys are hurt right couture is not playing um you know we did a a pre-tape ahead of that game with Cal Burrows. It's just a Prince of a human, but he's playing 20 minutes a night. And he's on the first unit power play, which he hasn't been on a power play since Bridgeport, you know,

after he was drafted, like I'm serious. They've got guys that are playing, you know, above where they probably should be slotting the lineup. And it was, you know, they were bad. And I would, you know, I never won. I didn't play. I'm not going to question heart or character. But when the game got away from it, it didn't look like there was a whole lot of fight to get it back.

Now, I don't know if that was just the talent level on the ice. But, yeah, by the end, you're just like, oh, my God, I feel a little bit sorry for those guys out there. And then to follow it up with another 10 goals against versus Pittsburgh, I don't know where they go from here because if they do win the lottery and they do get math and celebrating who's, you know, lives in that area because his dad's from Vancouver, but of course, he works with the Warriors.

They're going to have to surround him with something to help him out. Kind of the way the Blackhawks have done this year with the darn, because to bring a high traffic pick into that environment right now wouldn't be pretty. You're going to be busy tonight as the Vancouver Canucks take on the Edmonton Oilers. A good test for them because they will be facing what we think might be the feel of a wounded animal out of the Edmonton Oilers here.

What are your thoughts on the big game tonight? Well, I mean, McDavid and Drysaddle, as they have with almost every team in the league, have had their way with the Canucks. You know, power play has feasted on Vancouver. Now, Vancouver beat them 8-1 in the home opener and then 4-3, I believe, in the second game of the season. But that was a game that DeSmith stole, actually,

and they got some timely score in the winning goal by Lafferty. So I think they're expecting a super tough game. And like Vegas still has, you know, the odds for the Oilers to make the playoffs right now with a lot of Vegas sites are still higher than the Canucks to make the playoffs. But get this, if the Canucks win tonight in regulation, they're 14 points clear of Edmonton and we're just at the start of November. That's an awfully big hole so i think we're going to see the oilers awfully hungry i don't know if mcdavid's 100 uh but this is a group that um has you know the last few seasons had its

way with vancouver except for this season so far and you're going to see jt miller's line hard matched on that dry sidle mDavid line there they're loaded up tonight and I think it's going to be a fun game to watch because the top line of Dallas I think had one shot at even strength on Saturday night against that Miller line and they've been up to the test most nights more often than not to shut down the other team's top line which is another thing I don't think I would have seen coming heading into this season. One more for me, Dan, before I let you go, and you can prepare for the big game tonight. Just the big picture of Rutherford and Alvin,

and I'm sure they had a wish list coming out of training camp and what the wants and needs are moving forward. Has 8-2-1 changed a lot? Are you think they're still looking? They're still going to be aggressive here? Or are they going to kind of sit back a little bit here? I think they're probably going to right now. Like if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

But that doesn't mean they're not looking. I think they're always going to be looking to upgrade. I think that they, you know, LV did a fine job this offseason. It's not like they spent a lot of money, right? They gave Soucy the three years, but Ian Cole got the one-year deal. Suter, the one-year deal. Luger, all these guys kind of came short-term, so low risk and maybe high ceiling. And those have all paid off.

I think the biggest thing for this group moving forward is probably still, like right now, Hronik and Hughes is fantastic. But I think to find another right shot top four guy, and we see how expensive they can be after acquiring Hronik, that might be the ultimate wish list. But I think right now they're happy with the way things have gone. The coaching staff has done what they wanted it to do. And this is a super, super competitive team.

And I'd say the way they're playing right now makes you feel like the winning is sustainable right just what we've seen through the first 11 games and so i think if they get broke don't fix it but you know this is a group that's always looking to make improvements so i don't think they're actively trying to make a deal but that doesn't mean they're not going to look to make the team better if they can dan enjoy the game tonight terrific job as always we really appreciate your time all right fellas have a great day and go hawks thanks murph appreciate it dan murphy hockey night in canada canucks hockey great golfer too feeling real good right now i think he might be

sports that's finest player better than us well i might have to have a little tourney of some kind i don't know get him out to Dawn Valley in April. I don't play when there's no leaves in the trees. Is he one of those where a bad round is like 77? I think so. I don't want to play him then. Yeah. I don't want to play him.

He's also in better shape than us. Anyway. Okay. He referenced it a little bit about Connor McDavid and maybe not being at 100%. There's no way he is. I told you guys. I know you did.

Do not play in the outdoor game. Don't. You looked great. You guys were wrong. I agreed wholeheartedly with you. He did not look great. He looked like... He's not Connor McDavid great in the outdoor game. He hasn't not Connor McDavid great in the outdoor game. He hasn't been Connor McDavid great at all since coming back.

Why do you want to take this guy at 60 or 70%? That's all I see out of him right now. I think you know the answer to that. It's desperation. Their record indicates that they just cannot not have him in. But Kip, eight games games he's got two goals and 10 points this guy's 150 point guy 60 goals you know that's the expectation this year so is he completely healed did he completely heal off of it is he is he is he protecting something

when he's out there is Is it on his mind? Or are they just that bad that he's got nothing to work with this year? Could it be just hockey stuff? No? You think he's struggling? I just don't see that third gear like we have in the past. Yeah. Like, they lost.

I watched that whole game on Saturday afternoon. They lost to the Nashville and Home Ice. He's just not the same guy. I'm sorry. Like there's just no way you can watch that game. We did this all year with Matthews. Not to be depressing for Oilers fans, but you know, with Toronto last year, we covered them closely.

And that was one of the themes here is Matthews is a 40 goal guy last year, but he never looked right. You know, he never quite got to that that level that level of separation that makes you you know the top end guy so there you there we are with mcdavid hopefully he finds it or they let him rest it or whatever it is because yeah and they're not deep enough to not have him be the best player on earth he has to be the best player on earth it's a huge game for them tonight i actually think edmonton wins tonight i just the desperation is ramped up through the roof i just i do not see them beating the vancouver canucks tonight based on what i saw on the

weekend i know and you know you're really you're is that a throat on the wall and see if it sticks comment that you think edmonton can win no i I don't tend to believe that 10 games into a season, a team isn't who we thought they were at the start of the year. I haven't suddenly gone bad team on the Oilers. Things are not working. They're not getting a save. Their best guys have not been going. They don't have depth scoring.

But we saw them last year push Vegas to the absolute brink in the second round of playoffs with an unbelievable season. like they didn't lose 10 guys in the offseason so this is still a competitive hockey team find a goalie to to get them all consistently over a hump right now they gotta deal with that for skinner campbell tonight to beat demko tonight as that's a that's an upset what's really hard for them is that things are going well for vancouver who doesn't have to force it right like they don't need to everything's going well no one's struggling for their points the way here in toronto you got domey and nize whatever the this vancouver team can play comfortably and that that's hard to beat but i think you're going to get a great effort to me watching the two teams play, one team, like the Canucks are just playing so hard

and so organized and got unbelievable goal tending. And the other team just can't, you know, just get out of their own way. They look like completely opposite types of teams. Just the yackety sacks. They were awful on Saturday against the Preds. Awful. That was their, yeah. And we've said this right from almost

the beginning when our when our show started that like toronto and edmonton two teams that everybody had in a stanley cup final it's incredible how they mirror each other i know the uh two or two stars or three stars having to deliver every night to give yourself a chance to win or else you can't lean on anyone else to get the job done. And you're like, who can we put on the ice defensively? We're worried about protecting the goaltender. It is. There's a lot of overlap. And Evan Bouchard, I'm still not sure where the expectations lie,

if Edmonton overestimated how good he is or how good he can be right now to get them to a place that... Can he play 22, 24 minutes a night? Well, that's the issue here to me is not forecasting your guys, but wish casting when you're saying, you know, like, yeah, he's Bouchard, he's really talented, he can do whatever.

Like, maybe if we just use him in the role where we want him to be, he'll become that. And he's not ready to me to be the guy who's playing 22 minutes, top pair, PP. It's just, at the very least, he's not thriving in that role for them, which is problematic right yeah and the other thing too again with just a dozen games is it's so easy now especially through social media to to say it's the coach's fault here and jay woodcroft's taking a lot of heat right now

on and let's if you think you should be fired no no i don't i'm not saying you but people do like the fans oh no no it started already uh jay woodcroft dj smith heard that one probably the the lowest uh rumblings would be sheldon keith but there's still there's still people out there that think that after 10 games they can assess that this is a coaching issue it's crazy to me that a team can have i don't remember how many points oilers had last year but leafs were 111 second round of playoffs last year oilers good team like the same coaches and we're 10 games into the year yeah rocky start but to me i don't know if you can burn it all down here i don't think you can necessarily

compare the leafs start and this like descends and Oilers start to the Leafs start. The Leafs have been bad, but they've gotten more weight. Oilers are on the brink of being out of it. It's a little fool's goal too, Sammy. Thursday shooting 80. 100% agree. Don't get caught into the fool's goal. We've noted this over the last few years. We can look

down and we can find 12, 13 teams that are just not good. And those are just, those still are points out there that, you know, don't really count, to be honest with you. Well, when you're talking about cup contention. Yeah, when it comes to teams that we really measure good cup contenders, there's a lot of points out there that could be had

that doesn't really tell you how good you are. Your point then is that the Leafs record doesn't really matter because they're kind of getting some lazy points. Well, then what do you do with a team like Edmonton who's not getting those points, you know? They have five points. Yeah. And as Dan said, a Vancouver win

now has dug a hole that you could argue where does that leave the Oilers moving forward? They got to win seven out of ten games? Seven and a half out of ten games? I don't think that's that. Or is it just sneak into the playoffs

for the Oilers? I am saying this. Friday 10 games? You know, I don't think that's that. Or is it just sneak into the playoffs for the Oilers? You know, I am saying this Friday. I was on a show with Amber and Gazdik and I said, you know, you look at this Oilers team. So tonight they got the Canucks. Then they got the Sharks,

the Kraken, the Islanders, the Kraken. Like they got some games they can win. This team, you know, goes five and one over their next six and their 500. It's like,

can I ask you who has the worst goal differential outside the San Jose Sharks this year in the NHL? It's the Edmonton Oilers. Oh, no. Really? By the way, do you know who has the best goal differential in the NHL? Vancouver. It is Vancouver. Plus 26.

What's the difference in there, too? Let's math this up. Leafs are minus one, by the way. Yeah, I know. Not great. Game time? Oh, yeah. Hit it, Sammy. It's game time.

Presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary. At Bet365, must be 19 plus. Ontario only. Play responsibly. We were just quickly talking about Conor McDavid there and not looking like himself,

so I had to go check his heart odds yes to see if they've moved they were plus 150 the whole year they have gone up to plus 200 really yeah so it's not just people like people are starting to notice i think i mean he's been a prohibitive favorite all year. And Jack Hughes is at plus 500 now, which he's out week to week, I think. Austin Matthews creeping up there. He's plus 500. And then the next one's Nathan McKinnon. So the first time in the all year on Bet365, they've changed the odds on Conor McDavid-Hart. Let me ask you about a guy who gets Stelke Trophy, you know, nods here and there. People like him.

Is leading the NHL in points. Tied with Jack Hughes. Elias Pettersson going to be playing tonight. Yeah. He got a heart trophy. Elias Pettersson is 10-1 to win the Selke. And he is 14-1 right now for the heart. Wow.

And he's looked excellent. And he's like plus 10. Yeah. See, that stuff matters to me. Yeah. He's not only as what, like, if he's zero, Vancouver is not that good. Yeah.

It's just, these stars have to score more than how many pucks they're shoveling out of their own net. This has been the Neil under Tavares issue in Toronto for years, that they're typically awash in terms of... And, like, offhand, I can't remember, but last year McDavid had what? 153 points. Yeah. When you think about a guy with 153 points that he's on the ice for,

where do you think his plus minus should be? I don't know, plus 38. I'd be between 40 and 50 as a really good year. I mean, plus 20 isn't horrible. But they're on the power play for so many of those points, yeah. You know, it should be better. It should be better. Yeah.

I mean, yeah, you're right. You're giving up, I don't know, 35 points on the power play, 40 points. Yeah. But it's just not good enough for the Stars to wash. They have to be on the ice more than they give up. The Pasternak-Marchand-Bergeron line so effective is that maybe they didn't have the biggest numbers, but by God, their goal differential was always at the top. In our first hour with the Leaf edition of our show,

I talked a little bit about the stress factor of stars like Mitch Marner that feel like they've got to do everything. It's no different for Conor McDavid. I watch Conor McDavid when he plays either in an interview or watching him on the ice. And I see the weight of the world on his shoulders to act as if he's trying to win the Stanley Cup every night. You know, I've been thinking about this a little bit myself.

And I think that our sport, it is so hard and somewhat unfair to have these expectations that Matthewthews or mcdavid or whoever need to lead these team to the stanley cup there's 32 teams now and in our sport you can only play 20 to 25 minutes per game you're at the mercy of your general manager to build something around me to give me a chance to win my minutes and hope we're good enough around me mcdavid has obviously won his minutes but you are now more than ever at the mercy of your gm i know and for for for mcdavid now to look at his roster right now and say i can count on you like petterson's doing in vancouver like the trust level that petey has for his teammates in vancouver and the trust that connor has for his teammates or

marner for his teammates night and day well the bottom six in vancouver right now is like nils hoglander sam laffertyty, Anthony Bevilier. Like those are hockey players, like really good players. And, you know, in Edmonton, it's James Hamblin and Raphael Lavoie. You know, Derek Ryan has struggled. It's a different world. A couple more quick ones for you. Tampa Bay is pretty heavy underdog tonight.

Plus 130. If you pair a Tampa Bay Lightning win with a nick paul goal it's seven to one and he loves to score against leafs so there's just a little same gamer because i have a feeling bad feeling about the leafs tonight boys and the last one i'll give you is oilers are pretty much even money tonight in vancouver and like you said desperation time for them and three weeks ago you taking the oilers at even money against the canucks you'd have been tripping all over yourself to place if you want to have a look at the oilers and desperation mode tonight they are even money and that was game time presented by bet 365 visit the app for the

latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at bet 365 must be 19 plus ontario only please play responsibly nice job semi all right we're to take a quick break. When we come back, plenty more to dive into, including what's going on in Ottawa. Lots. We talk about the pressure, so much pressure in Edmonton, pressure in Toronto. And all of a sudden it's in Ottawa.

And the Canucks are just like, and Lauer's going, calm down here. I just bought the team. Would everybody just relax here? Columbus for sale. Brady K. I just bought the team. Would everybody just relax here? Is Columbus for sale? Brady Kachuk calls out the fans. We'll get

into that when we return on Real Kipper and Bourne. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the Real Kipper and Boren Show National Edition here on Sportsnet. Nick Kiprios, Justin Boren, Sammy McKee. As if the Ottawa Senator Week didn't get enough, their latest loss, a 6-4 loss to Tampa Bay, led to a chorus of boos and a chant that included, Fire DJ.

And this prompted the captain of the Ottawa Senators to come out with these comments. I mean, we're right there. It's frustrating that we're facing a ton of adversity right now. But in here, there's no quit. And there never has been. I don't think we've ever showed a time where we've quit on the people that paid money to support us. I think it's non-negotiable in our group that we finish hard no matter what and we leave it all out there, and sometimes it's frustrating.

And I understand. Don't get me wrong. I understand they're frustrated, but, I mean, we're leaving it all out there. Of course we want to win. Of course we had pressure expectations this year, and we want to live up to that. So I know we're facing a ton of adversity right now. Everyone's thinking so negative right now. we just need to get out of it

okay there was a reference uh i don't think we had the reference sammy of uh him mentioning the crowd and the bs that came with it but it was there yeah not pleased with what he was uh hearing from the booze so is he is it across the line to for a captain to say that fam shouldn't be booing when you're four and six my my first thought is that um listen you you don't ever want to kind of take off the people that pay money right but let me just throw this back at you are are the expectations uh are the expectations of the fans towards these players to win right now realistic? Like, are they ready to win? Like, they've been built up the last few years. Pierre Dorian, wherever he is right now,

you know where he set up the fan base. Yep. That we're ready. Rebuild's over. And it wasn't. Right. And I'm asking you right now, as much as we can look at the promise of this lineup,

are they really ready to win now? You know, I got a little bit of heat from some people preseason when we picked, you know, how many Canadian teams do you think will make the playoffs? And I had Ottawa just outside. And my point was that as you get better from the basement, it gets harder to take the next steps, right? Like it's easy to go from 55 to 75 points and 75 to 85.

Once you get in that group of teams, it gets really hard to keep climbing. And I kind of had them in that wild card chase. Things go right. They get in, things go badly. They don't quite make it. Things have gone poorly. They're hurt, right?

They're down 3D at least least there's other injuries up front like you got the other clip if you want to hear it oh yeah okay yeah for sure i do want to hear it no problem no problem yeah frustrating i mean it's every don't win it's it's frustrating and um it's frustrating, the negativity from the outside. It's the constant booing and the kind of from the crowd too tonight was, I understand that they're a passionate fan base. I understand. I love it. But, I mean, when you face adversity, you don't turn your back on the guys out there. I mean, we're playing hard um i know it's frustrating

right now but it's not like we're giving up out there we're fighting to the very end so um to be honest with you it's um i was i was very frustrated tonight he's not wrong game 11 though i i think he is wrong where where is he wrong they this team has been i would argue that there's been no more positive fan base about their team that's not very good for the last four years in the ottawa center they may not they're just not ready to win right now and and they're they got set up by pierre dorian a few years ago the point you're making that the expectations are elevated too high yes too soon yes and they're gonna be good. They just may not be ready emotionally. And there still has to be some maturation here.

It's interesting because we had the Leafs get booed the other night against LA. And I was like, all the teams can boo. They can boo. They're paying a lot of money to go to these games. They're seeing a bad product. They've been told how many times that their team's going to be good. They're no good again.

I get booing. I'm the fan's perspective. You're the player's perspective. They've been set up to believe that they're in a win mode now. By the signings of, by Tarasenko signing the goaltender. Never, listen, I mean, he could still prove me wrong, but I was never a corporate sallow guy. Like, where have you carried a team?

Do you need, do you, Pierre Dorian gave him 20 million bucks. Yeah. For five years. He was pretty good down the stretch of the Kings, then he fell apart in the playoffs. Yeah. You know, I think it's hard when

you know when your team finally drafts a lot of exciting players and you just kind of expect it to happen and it just doesn't that easily they had some tough luck obviously the pinto thing is massive for them you know formington is still you know out there somewhere they're just you know norris being hurt last year it has felt like like here they come, here they come, here they come, and they just can't get that traction. So I get why fans are frustrated. Booing the players is the outlet, but to me you're booing the frustration with the organization

not being where you expect it should be. And if they're not quite ready to win just yet, if you're Michael Anlauer who just bought the team and you've still got to pay Pierre Dorian, I think this year and next year, and you got to pay DJ Smith this year, I don't think you should be in any hurry to make a major change like that.

Unless you believe like the fans that the team is there now and that this is what's holding them back. So I think it's a perception thing. And, you know, Steyos has been there with Dorian, right? And so he probably believes in what they have and thinks that there's more to give. That tends to be the opinion of managers, that they've built a good team

and that the coaches aren't doing it right. I wonder if Steyos believes that because it's probably Steyos' opinion that Ann Lauer cares about most. Elliot today was talking about potential coach replacements already for DJ with John Gruden was a name he dropped. Now that would be another inexperienced coach.

It would be. Guy's never been a coach in the NHL, right? He coached an ohl championship when ann lauer was dj smith coming in right right so then you want the opposite claude julian is a guy from he's in the ottawa area he's waiting outside the building just waiting for his name to be called he's there again this the perception is there that this team loses money year after year, especially when they don't make the playoffs.

I'm just not sure a guy that spent close to a billion dollars is ready to put out millions more on something that may not be the difference maker this year. God, the playoff gate, a couple of playoff gates would sure take some of the sting out, wouldn't it? Yeah yeah if you believe a new coach can turn around get you in yeah in a division where seven teams are above 500 they've historically stunk in november haven't they they've like buried themselves in this month not to tell because they haven't had a great run of years period no but they've been good towards the end of the year a lot of times it feels like last year

remember they were like one of the harder teams to play against i remember joking that if they got in they the least to be the most scary yeah like they were really really good towards the end of last year but it's just not it's not working i do want to say i think they're a good team and i think that they've had bad luck and that this is a team that's going to be better i don't think they're going to finish below 500 i think they're going to be competitive still okay can you say the same thing about the san jose sharks no my god that's what ate the microphone saying that no two goals in two 10 goals in two straight games they've given up i don't think it's ever been done before in the history of the game first time since the bruins from december 2nd to 4th in 1965, Kippy.

When was the moon landing? So... Moon landing. 69, so since before the moon landing. That's the worst start in NHL history, is it not? Minus 42 goal differentials, the worst in NHL history through a team's 11 games. I think it's the worst.

I think it's the longest streak to start a season yet. The feeling out there over the course of history was the worst team ever was the 1974, I think, Washington Capitals. I don't know if they won six or eight games that year. Ouch. And in a league now where the salary cap and parity was supposed to make everybody pretty much competitive against each other, we are now staring at maybe the worst team in history. I mean, I'm wincing looking at their roster right now.

So Couture is hurt. The 74-75 Washington Capitals won eight games. And the next closest was the Sharks at 11 games in 92-93. All these are a lot of expansion teams. There's going to be nobody to go to those games. This is the thing, Kip. It's not just what you do. It's going to be nobody to go to those games. This is the thing, Kip. It's not just what you do. It's going to be empty.

And you miss a whole generation of potential fans. You see that kid the other night had the My First Sharks game sign? With the graphic of 8-0? And it was his 10th birthday. And they hung 10 on them. One for every year on her day. Don't go next birthday.

Who's going to pay for his therapy now i know it's terrible i mean what what other sports can he get interested in because it isn't going to be hockey i just think that when you tear a team down this far you can't assume that a few good draft picks turn it around you need 16 new skaters like when you're giving up 10 goals a game, are you still allowed to bet on them? Or would they take them off the books? Yeah, it might be. Oh, they'll let you bet on them. They're praying you bet on them, Kip.

What are you talking about? Guaranteed win night or guaranteed loss night. Bet365 is like, yes, bet on them. Their top pair is Mario Ferraro playing with Ty Emberson. Kyle Burrows, Nikita Okhotchuk is playing. Yeah, like they're playing tomorrow night, and they're only plus 160 on their race.

Yeah, against the Flyers. I just, it's really hard to see when the wins come. I just, I get it. You know, I get it. You know, I get it. I mean, I understand that you want to stink and give yourself a chance for draft picks, but there's no guarantee. Like, the damage that you could do to your organization over this year. Irreparable.

Like, it might take 10 years to recover. Well, and how about Buffalo did that? Remember the year that they were cheering for losing was a mcdavid's draft they were cheering and then they just they never they haven't made playoffs since yeah like you just arizona the devils are finally coming around detroit was bad for so long like leafs were the only team to ever do it quick yeah they bottomed out and got back but by and large when you really bought them out i shouldn't say quick they were stinky for a lot of years too in between like when they went to the playoffs in the shortened year,

and then they stunk for a while, and then they get Matthews and all that. But, yeah. Anyway, I just think they need to add players, and I'm going to keep saying that all year. They need to add players to save face. They're still going to finish last or close to, even if they get three good players. They won't.

There's no way. Wow. You can't justify spending an asset, which is why they won't. I don't know what you do. You lose. A lot. What is going on with your favorite goalie in Carolina, Freddie Anderson? They announced today that he's out.

I think they didn't really give him much of a timeline, but with some blood clot issues. Apparently, they're trying out Yaroslav Valok. So, all the best to Freddie. That's pretty scary. And yeah, they're having a tough time there anyway. And now they're trying, like I said, trying out Halak. Yeah.

Their pure line is two games over 500. But they were supposed to be a team that many had winning the Stanley Cup. I had them as the east favorite pretty handily this year i thought they would walk walk away with eastern conference this year maybe the devils were going to push them in my opinion but yeah they're weird their goal differential is zero you know they're they're at break even at best so they're not that kind of team usually they're usually like the analytics darling for sure they are yeah yeah they're and like the leafs they're much worse

because their defensive metrics are much worse. Okay, two games on tap on the network, Toronto and Tampa Bay, followed by Edmonton and Vancouver. Let's start with Toronto and Tampa. Can the Leafs redeem themselves tonight? Man, I'll say we've done the show together. It's our third season.

I have no idea what to expect from the Leafs tonight. Because usually it's like they're stars when all the scrutiny is on them. They put in a great effort, have a game, and go, oh yeah, they're still a pretty good team. But they've been playing pretty good. So it doesn't seem to matter. I have no answer, Kip.

I don't have a good feeling about tonight. You think they lose? I think it could get ugly. I don't know about ugly. I don't get the sense ugly, but I do get the sense that it's... Between Toronto and Edmonton, it's going to take a lot more than 60 minutes to iron out some issues. I think they need a Samsonov performance tonight.

If Samsonov's bad, they could get really smoked. That's what I mean. And it's on home ice. He played great last game. Maybe Samsonov will start to find it here. Kipper, you're talking about the grumbling you experienced on Saturday night? Like, the fans. It's just heading in a sneaky bad direction here.

They go down a few, you're going to get serious boos tonight. And maybe some chants about some people. Maybe. And what about the other one? What do you know? No, no. I'll go with Vancouver tonight. Yeah?

Yeah. I just think that, yeah, listen, they may get a bad bounce here and there. And I don't know. maybe edmonton finds a way to pull this one off but two goals from dry saddle five four win wow okay is he is he is he on the ice for three though well i'm not if they're winning doesn't matter we're gonna be entertained no matter what happens tonight so stick around and watch both of those games on Sportsnet. It's going to be a lot of fun. Okay.

Our thanks to Dan Murphy this hour for his feedback on the Vancouver Canucks. Enjoy the game, everybody. We're going to be back here tomorrow to wrap it all up for you. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening to The Real Kipper and Bourne Show.