Real Kyper & Bourne - Canadian Team Inconsistencies with Garry Galley

Episode Date: December 10, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the busy 10-game Tuesday night slate, including a pair of last-second goals for the Ducks and Oilers. Hockey Night in Canada's Garry Galley joins the show (6:35) to discuss the Senators' struggles since Brady Tkachuk's return, the Canadiens calling up top goalie prospect Jacob Fowler, whether the Habs need to get bigger, and the Oilers' inconsistency. Later, sports orthopaedic surgeon Jason Smith stops by (34:10) to share insight on the uptick of injuries around the league, Chris Tanev's situation, and why teams and surgeons are still wary of Jack Eichel's artificial disc surgery.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Welcome in to the national edition of our real Kipper and Born show, Nick Kiprios, Justin Boren, Sammy McKee, a disgruntled looking Sammy McKee. It's totally funny because you remember, like, right at five. Everyone reminds me right at five. Oh, is there you get text? The Jake reminds me, five. No one can do 458. Jersey, Jersey.

The jersey's at five. Tell me earlier, I forget. For all of you that don't know what the hell we're talking about, Sammy forgets to change the jersey from our Leaf Edition hour to our national hour. Sammy. I'm setting a daily phone reminder. We need something. You know, game shows used to have this or sitcoms have an,

applause sign, like that flashes. Can we get something that says jersey change? Wherever you're watching and listening to a disgruntled Sammy, we're glad you're bored. We're live on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 615 in Vancouver,

Sportsnet 960 in Calgary, and streaming always on Sportsnet Plus, also available at your convenience, Spotify, Apple, Podcast, and YouTube. This hour of Real Kippenborn, brought to by Beth 365 in a few minutes we'll welcome in Gary Galley who always does a great job of breaking things down

not only for us but of course Sportsnet and Hockey Night in Canada as well so lots to get into including the senators he's in Ottawa so he has a pretty good vibe on what's going on there because usually with someone like Brady Kachuk coming back into the lineup you think that would just catapult them to

another level here but they're actually catapulting the pucks into their they're going they're going in the wrong direction yeah um so we'll get into that and more with Gary Galley but in the meantime last night 10 games

and did you there's two goals with a second left in Edmonton where they squeaked out a point against Buffalo and then in Pittsburgh with anaheim coming back with i've never seen this before is this the first time ever one one hundredths of a second one one 10th sorry yeah we're gonna get there

we're gonna go to one one hundredth because that's how close it's getting now the screenshot of the ducks guy with in his own zone by the empty net with his back to the opposing zone with 10.1 seconds left and being like they tied this game is one of the more insane same things ever yeah i'll go one more insane on that game okay okay i think it was chris crider who took a penalty right yeah so now pittsburgh is up a goal yeah with 17 seconds to go on the offensive zone yeah dan muses who's done a nice job in pittsburgh yeah has the all-time rookie head coach brain cramp I've seen in a long time because he sends out Crosby's line,

which is fine. Of course. But then he sends out Latang and Carlson for the power play. Hey, Dan. We got enough to win. Don't need a power play goal. You need to burn 17 seconds off the clock.

They got skated through. Did you see it? Yeah, I watched while we were talking. Did you see La Tang? Here we go. Watch, watch. Look this. Where's the D?

What's the D? Oh, she's, I missed. Oh, now I'm going to, and then Carlson just slides and knocks the puck in his own net. This Ducks team has enough good things going for them that it's impossible to believe that they're not going to make playoffs. They are back. Listen, LaTang cannot. Okay, Carlson, okay, maybe, but Carlson and Latang, Latang is not having a great year defensively. Well, Sam was just trading for him for the Leafs second ago.

No, I said we were talking about Power Playpoint. Anyways, he has a lot of them. That one irked a lot of... He got one for the ducks last night. He did. That one irked a lot of people in Pittsburgh. And the play that the Buffalo Sabers players at Malenstein makes it, and he kicks it right to Connor McDavid with one second left

and puts it right on his tape. It's like, that was crazy. And then Vegas scored with 12 seconds left to tie it up against the Islanders, Marner made an unbelievable keep-in with a foot against the wall, got it through and the puck went right to, is it Dorofaev, I think it was? He's having a tough time the shootout this year. What was that?

Marner. Every clip I see of him is a puck's rolling off a stick or like his shootout stuff hasn't been great this. And Sid too. Sid can't score a shootout goal either. It's almost like we should just get rid of it.

Bring back ties. Oh, he wants rid of three and three. You want no shootout. I actually love shootouts. I don't know what I'm talking about. I just love watching. Well, I just like the guy's inventiveness. But when a guy, the puck rolls off a stick,

it's hard to watch. Yeah. Emil Heindman shoots one in the net for the aisles to get the win last night. Ten goals in the season for Mill. Wow. I'd Noah Dobbs and do last night.

The other thing that... Not great, Bob. You know what's a hot button topic right now are these glove passes or not passes or touches or deflections. We saw another one last night in Edmonton. Oh, different one than I'm talking about. Oh, yeah, Alex Tuck. Right?

And, um, Tage ended up scoring a goal that got disallowed. And it's like, it's almost like, every night we're seeing something with a glove. Well, so there's, that makes three then, right? Because was it Hagel on Tampa Bay? And then what was the other? Marshand. But this one was the most obvious fallback.

Tuck had his lower hand on the stick, but it hits his palm, I guess. Well, he was coming forward because he was engaged in a battle. And he comes over the top and he knocks it towards the net. Yeah. And then it hits the goalie and then Paige Thompson shovels at home. That one to me was the most obvious. I never thought about it. Like you can get a hand pass well.

holding your stick. Yeah. He bonks off your hand as you were holding your stick. I don't know. I thought it was obvious. Let's get the opinion of a guy that's played almost 1,200 games in the National Hockey League. Does a terrific job on Hockey Night in Canada, SportsNet. Let's welcome in Gary Galley. Gals, how are you, Bao?

I'm doing great. How are you guys? What a crazy night last night. That's what the NHL's all about. So why all of a sudden is it these hand passes or glove deflections? And do we need to go back and revisit this whole thing? Because once upon a time, you couldn't pass a puck in your own zone, right? In our era, you touched, you batted it moving forward in your own zone.

And it, the whistle blows down. And then we said, no, no, that's okay. That's okay in your own zone now. But no, we cannot do in the offensive zone. I mean, do we have to go back and look at this whole thing? Over again. Moving along, nothing to see here. Just go.

I mean, goals. I hate seeing goals get taken away. That's a frustrating thing for me. I think we've seen a lot of goals in the last little while, not counting. I think, yes, when we played, you couldn't have to pass a puck, period. Now it seems to be whether the puck deflects off a glove, it doesn't really matter if it's not like push to somebody on purpose. I almost think it has to come to the point where if it accidentally hits you in the glove,

if you're standing in front of the net accidentally hits you, I think there has to be some judgment on that. I think to lose two, three goals in a game, calling hand passes, I think it's a little bit frustrating. Goals are hard to come by, and I think we're letting too many go. Goal interference has caused some goals, hand pass. Yeah, I do think there should be a look at this particular rule.

But then again, you know, anytime you add, to a rule, you know, you give the referee an opportunity to look at something a little closer and make a decision based on his opinion, whether it's on purpose or not, then that becomes something that gets criticized a lot too. Is it the right call, the wrong call? But certainly, you hate to see one in a really important game comes Stanley Cup time. You got to get these things kind of dialed in. But certainly last night, there was a few ones there you thought could have got

through and been goals. Did you think Tucker did it on purpose he knew what he was doing there was intent to push the puck i i looked at it a couple of times and i'm like i'm not even sure tuck knew where the puck was i think you have to realize that professional athletes in any sport can make something not look like it's on purpose and it could be on purpose i mean guys are good at it right they're very talented they've got great vision and where the puck is great hand-eye coordination uh but yeah it looked to me like that was not something that was done on purpose. It looked like it was more just accidental or just

trying to control it. And then, you know, it's a fortuitous bounce comes off it. The referee deems that to be a hand pass, especially in the offensive zone where a team could take advantage of that. So if you're going to look at the rule, you really got to get in a room with a number

of people and beat it down and figure out what's the best way to handle it. Whether the neutral zone should be fine with hand passes, you know, maybe it's just the offensive zone is the only thing you have to watch and then maybe you have the ability to look at it to see if it was done on purpose or not. Is there a more like a ticking

motion? Is there a motion where the hand is moving towards the puck to direct it or it's not right? So maybe those kind of things are coming our way in the future. The other thing for Tuck is like even if he does see it and knows he's going to hand pass it still makes sense to do it. It might hit off an oiler player

and negate it and just push the puck to a better area. So I get what he's thinking there. I think he's just trying to get the puck going in that right direction. And you can direct a puck with your skate into the net now. You can literally turn your skate, direct it, just can't have a kicking motion. That's how you should pass with your glove and ozone, direct it. Maybe. I don't think they want a guy to be jumping up in the air and batting a puck to somebody going down the ice.

I don't think they're looking at that, but I think they could streamline this for sure. Yeah. We wanted to get you on today to talk about the Ottawa senators first and foremost. We have been watching them since Kachuk came back and expecting them to sort of ride. up through the ranks of the Canadian teams here and they've hit a little bit of a skid. What's your assessment of this Senator's team? I still think it's a good club

but what's going on with them these days? Well, definitely a really good young club. I don't think there's any question that there's enough talent on the Ottawa Senators to be a playoff team. I do believe that. I think at the start of the season, I really felt like last year's playoffs really

push them ahead. You know, once you get in those playoff games and your young, talented guys get those games in it. It just really pushes you ahead in your franchise by leaps and bounds because those games are so big and to have them under your belt means a lot moving forward so i really expected this year they'd hit the ground running my prediction for them in my mind when it started was i thought they'd be in the top three in the atlantic division i think they're a team that could vie for the top spot in that division if their goaltending was to hold true uh it didn't hold true to start last year there was a scramble at the

end and you don't want to be labeled a team that plays better when you're catching up you want to be labeled as a team that you can take a lead you can get ahead in the standings and you could hold your ground and not let teams pass you and separate from other teams and get to the playoffs feeling good about yourself i don't think you want to be a team that's always catching up whether it's catching up in a game being scored on first 17 18 times you know that's not going to help you uh you know And I just think that you don't want to be a team that's catching up in games to get in the playoffs at the end of the season as well. This is a team that I think when they went on that road trip, if they could have really asserted themselves on that road trip. And they started out two and oh with Anaheim and San Jose.

So it started really good. But then it's just been falling off a cliff after that. You know, they just have not been able to get going. They're one six and one since those two wins. And again, there's a lot of questions around their goaltending. The goaltender doesn't seem to be worried. The goaltender seems to be very calm, says it's a long season, says that, you know, he thinks it's been better. I think I would agree that November's been better than October, but you're still pitching an 887, 888 save percentage, and that's not really going to be good enough.

Now, if he goes on an incredible run, which we've seen him do, and he peels off, you know, 16 out of 20 and just really nails it down, then again, yes, it got done, the job got done. but I think you want to see a better start and get in a good position and separate from teams would be what I think the goal is in mind when you have a good team like Ottawa does. You're watching and listening to Gary Galley, Sports Nets and Hockey Night in Canada's

number one analyst and Craig Simpson too. You guys are tied, gals, tied. When they get on the fence. As far as the goal tending is concerned. We've seen the Toronto Maple Leafs turn it around through strong goaltending when

Joseph Wall returned and then the Hildebeast of course coming in and that's a third stringer. We're seeing the Montreal Canadiens now saying enough with our goaltending and they went to the minors and got out of LaValle their top prospect fowler

and like at what point does Ottawa go okay boys like at the end of the day 877 save percentages ain't getting it done here is there an option for anything else but to stick you know between Allmark and Marylandan

well Ottawa is not the only team that's you know had gold tenning issues goaltending trouble Winnipeg obviously the injury to Hellebucks but they've been a tough spot Toronto's you know had a bit of a tough go Montreal I think has been I think they've been really really patient and and Toronto

I mean they're just playing a better all around defensive, structured game. I mean, they've only allowed six goals in their last five games. I mean, that's pretty tight hockey. That's just not goal-tending. I think that's a whole team, you know, buying into, you know, what Craig Barubi has been wanting from them. And yes, tip your hat to Hildeby and Wall, it's been a good goal-tending there for sure.

For Montreal, is it the panic button? I don't know if it's a panic button. Maybe it's something, a stopgap. Maybe it's sticking, you know, a cork in this for a little bit to see if they can't get their other two guys settled down. The thing with Dobish was he was playing absolutely fantastic. And then he lost his first game. I think he was 6 and O. He lost his first game and he had this meltdown after the game.

He's not been the same since. And we've seen goaltenders in the past that have these meltdowns after games. And look, he cares. I get it. But you have to, as a professional athlete, you have to control yourself a little bit. And I thought maybe he just got really out of whack, and he hasn't been in the same sense. So he was a real story because Mountain Bowl wasn't really playing up to snuff. And Dobish was carrying the mail, and that's why Montreal enabled themselves to get in the position that they were in.

Now, after that meltdown, now nobody's really playing great. I think there are goals that are going in. I think their defensive structure has fallen apart. I think they're allowing a lot of stuff in their zone that they can't be given these high quality scoring chances. So now you're going to bring in Fowler, the goalie of the future, the guy that they believe is going to be the guy,

and there's a lot of people out there that think this kid can do it. But if you had your druthers, you don't want to bring him in now. You don't want to bring him in in a storm. You want to bring him in when it's timing so that the kid can come in and not feel like the weight of the world's on them.

Now, what I hear about this kid is that, He handles all this stuff extremely well. He's a sharp kid. He's very mature. He just really gets it. So it'll be interesting to watch him and see how it goes. I don't think Marty St. Louis ever loses faith in his players this quickly. So I don't think he's lost faith in his goaltending,

but I do think he realizes that they're struggling. He's come out and said it many of times. You know, Montaubo just hasn't fallen apart overnight and become a bad goalie. He's been a good goalie. It's been a bad run for him. I think Marty will continue to be positive with them. And hopefully Fowler could come in and give those guys a chance to exhale a little bit and give the team a chance to win some hockey games.

Gals, I believe you're a golfer. So I'll use an analogy here. For teams that are bad, it's kind of like being like a 30 handicap golfer or something. If you work at it, you can get to a 20 fairly easily. You put in the time, whatever. You can get better quick. Once you get good, it gets harder to shave those strokes, right? And that's Montreal to me.

They were bad. They bottomed out. They got to, they made playoffs last year. And in terms of taking the next steps, trying to get that handicapped down to being, you know, one of the league's best players here, I'm not sure how they're going to get, looking at the way they're built.

I'm going to go ahead and say, I look at Anaheim, they've got big guys, young guys, Seneca and Goce and Carlson and, you know, they're bigger. Montreal's skilled now, crazy skilled to watch, is the next piece finding some physicality

to layer on to get better for them. I lost the golf analogy, you get the point. Well, you know, I look at the playoffs last year where there was no doubt that the Washington Capitals tried to obliterate them early in that series. They tried to just run right through them. And one of the players for me that played really well in that series that I thought, and, you know, and it was Josh Anderson.

You know, he really stepped up and the playoffs and everything going on there in Montreal. He really bought into being a playoff player. And I thought he played really well. There's a big, strong guy. You know, you need those kind of guys. You talked about Heinemann earlier. Emil, in New York, he scored the game winner last night. I really liked him as a player in Montreal.

He didn't make mistakes. Good both ways. He can score some goals. He can also really play good defensively. And he's strong. He seemed like he really battled hard. So I think over the years, you're right. They have become a sexy sports car.

they've got a lot of really good talented players they've got themselves a good coach they're working on being a better all-around team I think Marty knows what it's going to take for them to take the next step I'm not sure I think everybody around

watching Montreal has higher expectations than maybe the management and the coaching staff for Montreal they still feel like they're on their path and that yes it's not going to be perfect all the time this is a young team but they've got to keep building, keep getting confidence,

keep fixing the things that need to be fixed. And I do agree with you. I think they have to start looking at getting a little more sandpaper, a little more grit. Yes, you got Jack Guy on the back. And Anderson's playing on your fourth line. Gallagher's got a lot of sandpaper, but he's getting a bit long in the tooth.

You know, it's getting harder and harder for him. So, yes, you need to start getting in some young, big, strong guys. You know, I go back years, you know, when you take Cochney Emmy and you don't take Cichuk. You know, imagine if the Canadians drafted Cichuk at that time. You know, now you've got that big, big, you know, big winger. It's got a little bit of, you know, spin in them and everything like that. So I think the Montreal Canadiens have done a great job. They've got a lot of talent there.

I think they're exciting to watch. I mean, you're not going to get more excited than watching them. But I do believe they need to shore up in a little bit of size and grit in those areas. if they're going to make runs in the playoffs. Gals, when we look at the Eastern Conference, we look at the bottom teams to the top team, separated by just eight points. But we also see five of the six in the Atlantic Division.

And for some teams, like Toronto, who was off last night, they watch the Islanders get points off of a Western team, Vegas. You see Philly taking points last night over San Jose. You see Pittsburgh getting at least a point here. And, you know, while we think it's a good week, there's a number of teams that you have to jump. And it's hard on every given night watching others get points when you're off. And I'm looking at, again, five or six in the Atlantic that are at the bottom. Montreal, Toronto, Buffalo, Ottawa, of course, in Florida.

Is this really shaping up for you that we're going to see five teams in the playoffs in the Metro and just three in the Atlantic? Or is there just too much hockey to be played right now still for you? I think there's a lot of hockey to be played. I really do believe that. I think that looking at it now, I can see why someone would say, yes,

I do think that could possibly happen. There's a very good chance that could happen. I do think there are some teams that are going to bite in a little bit, but I also think in the next up until Christmas we're going to see some separation. I think there's going to be some teams that are really going to start to fall out. The more of these teams draft great players, because they're in the position to draft great players, they're getting better and they're more sustainable.

So they're able to sustain being in the race longer. because of it, but eventually it falls off because of, you know, they're young and they're building, like the things we just talked about. But to get over that hump, you've got to win these games, be in it. Like Anaheim, they're doing a great job. Their young guys are big, they're coming out, they're tough to play against. Now you've got to sustain it and you've got to hold it. When all these teams are coming banging on your door and they're going to come,

the ones that are used to be in there, we saw Boston, they're not giving an inch. I didn't have them in the top three in the Atlantic. They're not giving an inch. They win last night. Pastor Nack and Giki didn't even score. And they won. Minted. They find ways to win.

Yeah. They find ways to win. And Castellick, right? I mean, guts two. So you've got to find ways to win. You've got to figure out how to be a team that can get to the place you want to be and hold your ground. And I think we're going to see some change here. I just don't see it staying this way.

Tampa flexed. They're back where they are. Am I sold on Detroit? I'm not sure. I'd like to think that they got to start taking steps forward soon, but I don't see them. I just can't feel that yet, but they're really playing well

and they're earning where they are. So full marks to them. For Toronto and Ottawa and Florida, they're going to have to pull up their big boy pants here. They're going to have to get going here. After Christmas, you know, these games move fast. and the more teams you have to leapfrog, the harder it is. It's not just the four to six points.

It's the five to six teams that are all playing each other and accumulating points at the same time you are. Like Toronto, just what, 4.0 and 1, their last five? How far did they get? And like three point games, right? Three point games. Yeah. A part of that jump.

For sure, it's difficult. Are we good on time? Where are we at? you got another one for gals last one for gals uh just a thought edmonton oilers last night uh we had had the talk in the show sam the other day's like i can't believe i ever doubted them they're so back the oilers are the oilers are the oilers again here they go and then they lose to the sabers uh the oilers the oilers are just kind of going through it a bit right now you know there's are the oilers but you know there's stars that woke it up a little bit you know you get hymen back that's that's

huge. Ryan Eugene Hopkins, you can't really calculate how much it means to get those two guys back in your lineup. I mean, it just slots everybody in the right places as far as their forward units are concerned. They're better on attack mode. They're scoring more goals. I think their goaltending is always going to be questioned whether whatever Skinner does or not. It's always going to be a question. I think they've had some bad boo-boos in their games where guys are making really, really poor mistakes as hockey players in bad areas. of the ice. So I think you've got to clean that stuff up.

But I was shocked last night. Of all the guys, the teams that came back in the last 15 seconds to score big goals and create all kinds of groundswell, three of the four teams lost shortly after that. Right. The overtime or the shootout, so didn't really go far. But you get that

extra point. Sometimes a point feels like two points. And for Edmonton last night, they could have easily lost that game to Buffalo. Like, Winnipeg got down three and nothing. Look what happened. they couldn't get out of it. It doesn't matter whether Shifley, you know, that line,

Shifley and Connor and Vilardi are on point. You need other guys and you can't get down three nothing against a good team. So for Buffalo, you know, a team that is pretty fragile, you could see a team like Edmonton getting one quick like Connor did 10 seconds into the period and getting some momentum in the building

and then putting Buffalo on their heels. That you can see. But against the really good team, I think it's going to be a lot harder for emminton to do that so yeah it looks like some things i've gotten back to normal but there are some things that still look the same and and that's always the frustrating thing with emminton but when connor is is going and dry sidle and you got hyman and nugent hopkins back in the fold you know they are a tough team to defend okay i cannot let you go without getting you especially you as a defenseman

played 1149 games um a thought on bouchard and his giveaway last night from behind the net to tage thompson for maybe one of the easiest goals he'll ever have in the history of hockey it was it's a shocker almost isn't it how many of those have you had in those 1149 games and how did they affect you like i will tell i will tell you this i have scored on my own net while on the power play So that is as drastic and as bad as you can feel. So we're on a five-on-four power play. I'm playing for Philadelphia at the time.

We're playing against Chicago. And we're in the umbrella. So as the umbrella starts to shift over, I'm moving down towards the hash mark on the left side of the ice. And Kevin Deneeneen is up in the middle of the ice. And Kevin throws me a puck, and he comes walking over. I throw it back to him and he misses it. And it goes all the way down.

And because there was a delayed penalty, we were actually going on a five on three. Oh, no. Our goalie had left the net. So I move over and go to pass it to him, and I miss them. Like a simple 10-foot pass, you know what I mean? And all the way to hit the dead center of the net, dead center. Couldn't have missed it.

And, of course, the Black Hawk players had just a beautiful time ripping into me about that from the bench and everything. But, yeah, you do make some gaffes. You make some bad ones in your career. I mean, you do. You can't play in the best. league in the world and with the pressure that's on you and not make some mistakes. So, yes, the Bouchard mistake is one. You hope that you're strong, your most veteran players, the ones you count on, and you pay

the most for being consistent. You hope that's not going to happen very often. The timing of it is, I guess, you'd rather happen in game 25 than you have it happen in game two of the playoffs. And hopefully that's something he could shake it off. Veteran players normally shake it off. That's a young kid that makes that mistake and causes a game or something. It could take a while to get over it.

But for Bouchard, a veteran guy, you know, he'll shake it off. Sometimes the really bad mistakes, guys, you forgive yourself more for the real brain-cramp ones. It's some of the other ones where you miss up check or you miss somebody or someone you should have had. Sometimes the real bad ones, I mean, remember Ray Bork. We used to call them Ray-ray giveaway. And, you know, we'd get on them. And, you know, and I remember, you know, Mike Milbury coming in the locker, I've been saying, I got to tell you, he says, once a game, Ray, once a game,

always throwing up the mill, you get it away. But you know what the crazy thing, and I say this, because you guys know I have so much respect for Ray, is that two shifts later, he'll come around the back of the net, he'll make that same play. Yeah. It won't even phase him. He'll put it right through two sticks and a set of legs right onto someone's tape.

And that's what makes them a great play. I got to think that's the case with Bouchard that it feels like it happens so often that he's never going to be in a position to completely put himself down. This is just the way it is. And I'm a high-risk guy. I'll make it up on the other side. Goldfish memory, baby. Back at it.

Yeah, just the, yeah, don't have a long-term memory. Just let it go. And you know what? You guys know this. It's easy to say that. it's easy to say oh I'm just going to let that go it is not that easy what's not easy is the long look you get from teammates on the bench

oh yeah well and you feel it from the press box too believe me and you feel it from the general manager's booth and it's it is a hard thing to do to let it go and you know when losing streaks happen you take it home with you it never goes away even though you might go home and you got you know your family and the kids and it's a distraction it's on your mind all the time

And when you make mistakes and you're not playing up to your capability, it bothers you. But that's part of being a professional athlete. That's part of, you know, that's why I mentioned, you know, Dobish, like not handling that loss very well. And it seems to have really set him off, you know, where I think he, you know, he's too hard on himself. So, yeah, anyway, I tried to make the show really good,

so I'm going to be getting hate mail from all Ray's fans. And Ray is probably on my phone right now. just somebody has reached out to them and told them why I called him Ray Ray Giveaways Well, keep up our little secret there, guys Yeah, for sure Perfect, I appreciate that guys Don't say a word YouTube, okay, nothing in the chat

Squirrel, secret squirrel Gary Galley, everybody, Hockey Night Canada Great sports net, man Yeah, that was great Okay We gotta go Oh, do we? Every time Sammy goes, we got no time.

Keeps like, all right, one more question I mean, it's like, yeah, Okay, we got a doctor on the other side. We got to do game time. Yeah, we got to go. Okay, we got to go. Well, I got to do game time. And then we got to go.

Okay, I just got my hand slapped by my producer. I mean, if you had to let him go and I asked you to, then we could have had another conversation, you know? He's producing. He's producing. We're going to break. No, I'm going to game time. Yeah, oh my God, it's game time. Okay.

It's game time. Presented by Bed 365, visit the athlete of sods. see why it's every ordinary bet three six five must be 19 plus and terrier only please play responsibly uh wednesday night hockey tonight scotia bank wednesday night hockey uh features the detroit red and the calgary flames a lot of red a lot of red a lot of red in those jerseys not my favorite to watch personally but i will be watching and i think the shoulders of the white flames jerseys versus the all red of the red wings could be a little bit confusing if you're playing on the ice but anyways i digress from that uh even on both sides of the money line tonight minus 110 on both sides

uh interesting to me flames are only now three points back of a playoffs but all they were last time i checked they probably wouldn't back because some teams played last night but they're not that far out of it i'm sure their fans are just thrilled about this electric playoff race i'm sure they don't want to reset at all uh looking to tonight borny put dylan larkin obviously on his uh olympic roster today good year so i'm going to give a dylan larkin anytime goal because he's so excited about Justin Borns article. Give me a Dylan Larkin goal at plus 145 tonight against the Calgary Flames.

And that was game time. Presented by Bet 365. Visit the Afflatest Dots and C. Y as Ever Ordinary, Bet 365 must be 19 plus. Ontario only, please play responsibly. One of my best buddies in the world, Keegan Patterson. It's his birthday today is going to the game. Diehard Red Wings fan in Calgary.

Shout out. Also, that article, Canada's view of the American roster. Look at what they're going to be bringing to get Canadian tiers out of us. It's on Sportsnet.com. Okay, let's take a quick break when we return. We go back for, or have we had Dr. Jason Smith on yet? And he just texted me that he's on.

We got to go. Doctor, Doctor, Doctor next. He's a doctor. We got to go on a real Kippren Boren show. Hey, it's Blake Murphy. And I'm Matt Bonner. Join us weekday mornings at 11 as we break down all things Toronto Raptors. It's the Raptor show on Sportsnet 590, The Fan.

And wherever you get your podcasts. A reminder that this hour of Real Kipper and Bourne brought you by Bet365. Okay, you wanted it, you've asked for it, sent us countless emails. Let's go to doctor, doctor, doctor, doctor. Doctor. Doctor, he's back. Good to have you. Hey, um, we just ran a little late.

But now you know what it feels like to sit in a waiting room, don't you? Hey? That was J.B. J.B. Full credit for that one. All right. Let's get right into it because I don't know. People want to associate with the Olympics and crammy in games.

And, you know, they instantly go to all these injuries are because the Olympics are coming up. And we're not practicing and we're just focusing on all these games. as professionals, Dr. Smith. Like, do you guys talk the same way as regular fans going? There's a link here. You know, it'll be teased out. Like, once we get the injury data for real, we'll know whether this is a real thing or not.

But, you know, anytime you get injured guys and their fans, you look for an excuse, you look for a reason. And that's a good one. Now, is it a legit reason? Yeah, you know, you listen to Valley talk about, you know, cram and more games and less practice time and all these things. And, yeah, those are variables you consider. You know, the big one overall that we talk about a lot in sports science is, you know, the workload, you know, say over a month and then their workload over a week. And it's those real changes in workload, those acute sudden changes that are the real dangerous ones.

like guys, a guy who's, you know, a fourth liner, something on the second line, first line playing a ton more. Those acute changes are the ones we really worry about in sports. You know, the change in number of games, amount of practices, it's real, but it's not huge statistically. So I'm not jumping on board yet and blame it at all, all these injuries, these abductor tears, everything else on this workload. But it is something to consider.

You take it all variables into account. Okay, so we're going to get into a few things, but I want to get into the goalies. And we know what's happened in Toronto with Joseph Wall and Stolars. Both these guys, big workloads early, and then they get hit. There's Hella Buck, of course, in Winnipeg. There's Dempco's situations. Is it real now that the workload of a goalie at 50-plus games now,

it just can't happen anymore? these goalies are too big they fall harder and there's just more wear and tear on these guys you're right you look at the way a goaltender moved 15, 20 years ago versus how they're moving now

the explosiveness how strong they are how fast they're moving how hard they're skating forward and backward not just side to side in all this now like so their demands are higher there's no question you know

can they not play 50 games you know, I don't know with the advins in sports science and everything that goes into it. But I'll tell you, you know, adductor tears, these soft tissue injuries, we're not talking about the ligaments of the knee and stuff like that, these soft tissue injuries are the classic workload injuries. That's a sign of fatigue, didn't get adequate rest, heart rate wasn't normal before the game, playing too much over those two weeks. So when you see adductors, obliable, leaks, those things, you really start twigging in. This is a workload fatigue thing rather than, you know, a fluke or their conditioning.

Doc, appreciate you joining us today. I wanted to get the chance to ask you about another guy in the Leafs here. Chris Tanev, you know, there's some vagueness around his injury. Sounds like, you know, what we're piecing together could be something diskish. We don't know exactly. We're trying to pin down what this is. He's had a lot of wear and tear over the years. What is your impression of what may be happening and what that forecast might look like?

And just what we saw a whiplash. We did see the head snapping back, right? And it's not too typical that we see this, but we do on occasion. Yeah, so good questions. In typical NHL fashion, we have no idea. They don't give us any real information. What exactly is it? So we're all speculating.

We're all just guessing. That being said, you know, I looked at that injury and that sudden snap back and you think about everything that exists around the neck. And it's different than other joints than that, you know, the spinal cords there, the nerve roots are all there. And I had to brush up on some stuff. I talked to my good friend, Dr. Kevin Grant, who's a spine surgeon out in our hospital. And we were kind of going through all these different syndromes, myofascial syndrome, central cord syndrome, all these weird things that it could present. So with them not giving us any good information, you know, it's really hard to, hard to guess. But, you know, the cervical spine, you know, with this mobility and distresses on it, these are tricky issues.

You guys remember all that stuff with Jack Eichael back in the day? Like when it becomes a real problem, like the answers aren't simple. And Borea, I heard you talk about, you know, maybe just a little microdicectomy and, you know, he's back. You know, that's more for the lumbar spine. Once you're up in the cervical spine, things are trickier. Traditionally, you actually have to go and infuse that level, actually join the bones together in order to decompress those nerves. So it's not one of those little simple things,

just go out and kind of trim away a little part of the disc. If you have to have surgery, it's legit. So looking at that injury, you know, I'm thinking, okay, first off, is there a fracture? is there a facet fracture compression of the spine and the fact that he wasn't wearing a collar wasn't walking around like that for a while you know kind of rules that out now nerve root does he have some weakness does he have pain does he have tingling I would probably guess that's what's going on generally those do resolve on their own without surgery but like we see every

now and then guys got to go under the knife for that but it's not a simple little straightforward thing I got to ask you about the battle between the Buffalo Sabres and Jack Eichol way back when about this new type of surgery. Buffalo wanted nothing to do with it. Jack ended up getting it. It was a huge tug of war. Here we are years later.

He's thriving in Vegas, won a Stanley Cup. How do we look at that surgery back then as this big mystery to what it is today? Well, guys still aren't getting artificial discs. That's what we're about. He got an artificial. disc put in like nobody had that ever like in NHI i didn't heard of it in pro sports so it's just not that he was going a little outside the box he was going a lot outside the box now it worked

that's an end of one you know should we go out and get artificial discs talk to the spine guys and they're still like uh no the gold standard is to is to fuse that level so i'm glad that worked out for him but you know that was quite experimental and it's definitely still today not the gold standard and that's messy when that happens right when when a guy you know because these decisions ultimately have to be okayed by the by the team physicians and they didn't okay it and didn't if i remember correctly that's why he got moved they basically had to let him go and they got picked up so he could have that surgery so messy messy stuff but NHL hockey players they keep proving that may not work for Joe, you and I, but they somehow get through it.

Landiscock, that stuff with his knee, you know, him coming back and seeing him skate this year. Remember that last minute of their game against Dallas where he was on the ice for a minute and a half with artificial cartilage in his knee, like crazy these guys come back from this stuff. But let's not all go jump out and get artificial discs and cadaver knees and stuff like this before, you know, you got to take it with the great. assault these are these guys are kind of super humans so we know with certain guys there's risks

with everything right and they have to make their decision but like that puts a ton of pressure on you obviously as as a medical staff too it can't be easy for for athletes to look at you or anyone else and go hey doc you know what are the risks and for me with my concussion it was like yeah you come back you take another punch like that you could die and I'm like oh okay right and And it's like, but how, like, for you guys to be on that other side, it can't be easy as well to definitively say, oh, no, you'll be fine to, I don't know if you'll ever walk again if you take another hit like that. Well, that's it. There's tremendous pressure, right, to try to, because you want to be positive. You want to encourage these guys.

You don't want to be the guy to make a big statement. Like, this is really bad, man. Like, your career could be over here. But, you know, fortunately, these decisions aren't made just one person anymore. Like, the agents have their guys, the players have their guys, medical staffs. There's multiple members of the medical staff. We're getting second opinions. We're getting third opinions.

So you come to a consensus. So rarely do you have to look a guy in the eye and say, you know, man, I think the career's over. I think that's it. time to go get a real job, you know. So it's usually a team decision, but those are tricky conversations for sure. Well, and so I'll use this platform that chance to ask you a stupid question.

It's a pretty stupid question, but that's, you know... We're used to that on a show. Yeah, yeah, it's fine. You know, are some people just built in a way that you can't really help them as a doctor? Are they too fragile? I'm going to go ahead and explain what I mean. like Josh Norris twice has taken a face off and his shoulder's just gone.

He's just, he can't use his shoulder for like six weeks after that. I don't know what's happening there specifically with Norris, but it does feel like some guys are just more prone to their body being unwilling to cooperate. No, no question. There's huge genetic variability in these guys. Now, most of that gets sorted out and they don't make it to the NHL. Right. But, you know, the guys that are there,

even that. There's the guys that are the hyperlux guys, that their shoulders are separating, that their hips are loose, and you always kind of worry about guys. But on the flip side, the guys that are too stiff, then, you know, their muscles are tearing and something that's got to give in these situation. But there's huge variability between these guys. You look across a pro pro locker room and you're like, what? You're a pro hockey player. And next guy's like, you're what a pro looks like. That's what it should look like. And it's crazy. they are so different in their morphology and Phil Kessel misses zero games and in the dressing room you weren't like that's the athlete Yeah yeah Bovetchkin His diet and his lifestyle

Like he's beaten Subway and Cheetos What? Yeah exactly It's genetic They won the genetic lottery These guys let's let's just admit it Yeah 100% Great stuff man

Really appreciate your time Great to be on Good see you guys Doctor Jason Smith Elite Orthopedians surgeon to the hockey stars. Interesting. Interesting stuff. It makes me want to do like yoga or something

as one of those hyper-stiff guys who's going to tear muscles as they're older. Interesting. Yeah. I was even interested yesterday with Steve Aliquette saying that, you know, goalies have two type of groin pulls. Each way. Yeah, each way. Yeah, one pushing out too fast, one pulling in too hard. It's not good.

What do you got? Oh, just some things. But I mean, I don't know where you want to go. Well, I just wanted to follow up on Evan Bouchard's giveaway. Oh. Is that just enough for hockey Canada to go?

Oh, he's... We cannot... We cannot have that happen. Can't, can't, can't. I sent a tweet a month ago, like, all right, they got to take him. And since then, he's turned over 11 bucks like that was so bad. You know, Galley said my mic was off.

He was like, you know, we've all had some bad giveaways in our time or whatever. And I said, out loud just instinctual like every week yeah like what's the amount of these that's okay to have and yeah but like bouchard his to his point like ray bork he will go out the next game step out from the net with two four checkers like that and then sauce one three zones and landed on someone's tape for an unbelievable play so just sleeping he doesn't have his heart is like Thomas Cabberley right his heart rate didn't go up like he just no panic and you got to have a little

panic you got a panic once in a while yeah you got a panic all right does doc skate with you guys on is that does doc skate with you guys at all do you get them out no no i was wondering if you play hockey at all anymore these days uh player himself too fragile probably oh he's gonna get hurt um no so the sausage just made uh 16 cities in the running for the 2028 world cup who have they eliminated if you're down to 16 so i don't think Toronto was interested Last I heard. Is that right? Which is weird, but, you know.

I don't know. I'd love it to go to, like, Saskatoon. Yes, and like. But you know how this works, eh? How much money are you going to pay us for us to come to you? Yeah, but like I would like it to go to smaller cities that are going to support it way more than Toronto. So Saskatoon's got millions of dollars now to pay for the event. I bet your local tourism agency would say, yeah, let's do it.

Bring it into the tune. Bring it into Tune Town. They've been saving for this. they got money they're farmers those guys are doing great yeah like just bring it to some bring it to halifax bud do you see what they did in halifax the world juniors they go nuts like these small places not tiny but like smaller places support these things so much better and i just like oh put it in tronto again and have scored a goal in saskatoon it's just like great let's do it in trot again and have it all be suits that got these tickets through corporate events just like

totally agree But those suits are the ones that have the money. It's not always all the money. It's not about the money. It's not about passion? No. It's about loyalty? Chiching.

It's about Saskatoon, damn it. Chiching, chiching, Sammy. Be the Saskatoon show from now on. The tune. All right, we're going to go. That's a good show today, boys. It was really fun. Our thanks to Luke Fox, Gary Galley, and Dr. Jason Smith.

you're not on tonight are you uh no enjoy scotia bank wednesday night hockey tonight