Real Kyper & Bourne - Canes Closing in on the Cup + Doug MacLean

Episode Date: June 12, 2026

Guest host Gord Stellick is in for Nick Kypreos, joining Justin Bourne and Sam McKee following the Hurricanes' Game 5 victory over the Golden Knights in the Stanley Cup Final. To help break it down, former NHL President, GM, and head coach Doug MacLean (8:41) joins the guys for Off-the-Rails Friday! Mac shares his takeaways from Game 5 and discusses Rod Brind'Amour's impact, John Tortorella's goalie decision for Game 6, why he's not a fan of Mike Babcock in Edmonton, and Dylan Larkin's trade request. Then, he weighs in on what the Leafs should do with the first-overall pick, and whether Vegas and Carolina's roster construction will prompt more teams to trade top draft picks. Finally, Justin, Gord and Sam react to Nikita Kucherov winning the Hart trophy and take your questions and comments on the text line! The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Welcome in to the most anticipated 3 p.m. event of the day, Real Kipper and Born season five. We have technical directors Jake Schultz and Derek Brandeos, assistant producer today. Chris Gallagher and most importantly of all, we have Gord Stelick today in the Kipper chair, Gordon. Thank you. First time I've been in the Kipper chair. How's it feel? It's a little more well-oiled. I don't know what it is.

I think he has trouble getting away like yours, a little more work and that. So, yeah, it feels good. Feels good to be on board. We're happy to have you here. We're live on SportsNet 590. The fan. SportsNet 960 in Calgary. Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver.

SportsNet 360. God, SportsNet Plus and YouTube. If you miss our show and you can find it, wherever you get your pods. Give us a thumbs up. This hour of Real Kepernborn. It's also brought to you by Bet365. Lots going on in the city of Toronto today. I got to believe McKee's the most excited of the three of us.

Gord, you got any soccer ties, any excitement about the World Cup? Well, I got all kinds of excitement about the World Cup. And I think back, you know, I used to go closed circuit at Maple Leaf Gardens. They showed a closed circuit. And our neighbor was the public relations director. And I like, you know, when you happen, I was in a bar like, I don't know, eight years ago, 12 years ago, didn't realize it was the Dutch oriented one. And all of a sudden a bunch of orange jerseys came.

So you end up staying eight hours instead of two hours. Much longer than you anticipated. Suddenly this got fun. But, but obviously the Canadian angle. And we have kidded. We had the great line. I used to be on, do leaf hits on sports line. And winning once Jim Taddy hosting, and the Jays were playing the World Series,

and it was going extra innings. And the producer goes, you can do it with your shirt off. Okay? That was basically it. Now, maybe back then I would have dared to, but you could and Sam could. But I kind of feel that way today. You know, I got to believe there are some hockey fans out there who are still paying attention to Stanley Cup final and they're going to be listening later.

So we'll give it our best ever. But McKee, you got the kid on today. I do. I do. Representing the home side. I'm really excited about this. I think it's, you know, you could just kind of feel it was out and about today. You could kind of feel the vibe in the city.

You're watching the videos of the Canadian fans marching, the Bosnian fans, which was just an incredible. You see, I saw a video of some of the Bosnian fans high-fiving with Canadian fans. It's just like it seems like a very exciting time to be in the city. And it's just like, we're ripping out of here at four o'clock to go try to feel the vibe. I recognize that it's a fiscally irresponsible take. But like, I think it's awesome. It's here.

I think it's really great. It's exciting. for Toronto to show itself off. Beautiful day here. Bimo looks great. Yeah. A lot of red. A lot of red.

He's worried about the amount of blue and it doesn't look like there's a time. Okay, so the hockey angle right around now, how about a Stanley Cup parade in a Canadian-based city next year? Oh, boy. It would be right around now. Yeah.

Whether it's Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Ottawa, whatever may be. That would be, that just kind of shows a little bit of one-off. This is going to be like a six-week celebration, but something special like that. Overdue. Overdo.

Long overdue. Certainly not to worry about that in Toronto this year. No, didn't get close to it, but last night, some Toronto fans did get closer to, I don't know, a semi-realized dream of Mitch Martinott winning a Stanley Com.

Listen, there are people rooting for them. I know not everyone in here is and my boy McKee over there. Pretty good effort from Carolina last night. I don't know, what was your takeaways from Game 5? Gordon.

Okay, so first of all, I end up, like, nice guys like Dan Rosen of NHL.com, I'm tired of he'll come on. Mitch Marner, shown his critics. I go, will you please stop with that narrative? Okay? Because I'd be thrilled if Mitch Martyr wins a Stanley Cup. If he doesn't, Freddie Anderson will be, well.

Zach Heimann was in the final last two years. Phil Kessel won a Stanley Cup. Tyler Bozak won a Stanley Cup. Anyway, takeaways. One of the commentators said last night he'd got a text from, he said a flyer executive, which got to be Heath Jones, right? You know, whatever. Who just said, who said, this is the,

Carolina team we saw, right, in the Philadelphia series. And I thought that really was the one big takeaway I got. And then the last one kind of in a funny, in a fun one, I love what John Tortorella had to say. I'm leaving my clothes here for game seven. He did like that, eh? Well, yeah, I did. Well, we do media-wise. Oh, yeah.

But the other one was going to say, he obviously knew which team he was on because, you know, Tom Dundon with Carolina, he got crap that he didn't fly the port, travel the Portland Trailblazer team in the playoffs, right? So he wouldn't pick up the hotel room. He was going to leave his clothes there for two or three more nights. So all I know was John Tortorellas with the right organization for that. Yeah. That's a funny line to me.

I get the idea of showing the confidence and you've got to represent that, right? He has no other way to handle it. But I don't know. Carolina's won two in a row. They look pretty good. I do feel like Vegas. And I have felt like Vegas has this component of the team where they could start to pick each other apart a little bit. Torts can be a little bit tough when things aren't going their way.

and Eichel, Martin, some of these guys, and William Carlson's hurt now. I'm not, I don't know how I feel about this idea that it's coming back to Carolina. So the game last night, Dora Faev scores the first goal of the game, and it really, they had a fantastic start. Like, it felt like they were pouring it on.

They looked more like Carolina than Carolina did shots, just they had the puck more. And again, it's Jordan Stallboys, who wins a battle on the boards, hammers Braden McNab, goes straight to the net, tips one in, that crowd goes nuts, and it just immediately took the pressure off them From kind of that point forward, it just changed the game and they took over.

But, man, Jordan Stahl is unbelievable. It's an unbelievable story. Guys, I mean, we just missed the hit, but the drive to the net, the stick down tip there. I just, I'm blown away by this guy. The cool part about it is like, you know, you've been waiting for Svetikov and Ajo to step up in the series and to have a moment. And guys like Stahl have bought them time to show up. Yeah. No, exactly.

And that's why probably it was the most complete Carolina game because they've been waiting for, they've been winning. in spite of the others underperforming offensively. And now I'm going to kind of bounce all over the place. But the challenge for Vegas now, the big one is the Carlson injury. You know, never mind you're leaving your clothes there. You're leaving a healthy William Carlson coming back with an injured model. So now you've got to think, okay, does this mean Marner goes back to center, which we think, or maybe Thomas Hurtle has played some center?

Like can he do this Fetchnikov thing? Like can he do what you need, like somebody different to come up in game number six for Vegas so you can keep Marner on the wing where he's excelled. So that's going to be, and also with John Torterell, the one line, okay, it's fine about the close, and I like showing that kind of confidence. When he quickly said that's a stupid question about Carter Hart. In context, it could be one because it was only a two,

but he probably thinks, I wish, Aden Hill, I wish I'd found a period or two for him to play somewhere. Do you want to hear that clip? Oh, yes, we have that one. Yeah, it's clip four. Sorry, I didn't put on the line. It's clip four. Derek, Torterella clip four.

John, did you consider it all going to Aden Hill in the third period? Or was there any conversation to talk about it? Christ, that could be the stupidest question I've heard. First off, great question by Johnny Lazarus. Literally the most fair question. It's the best question anyone asked. I mean, your goaltender has given up four straight goal or four goals in five straight games. Are you going to consider?

He asked, are you considering putting in the guy who won a Stanley Cup for the Vegas Golden Knights a few years ago? Of course he's considered it. Yeah. Like, is there any chance where Torres hasn't gone? Should I? Does it make sense? The fact that he was upset about have you considered it to me is peak torts where it's like, don't be a jerk to a guy who's asked a totally fair question.

Yeah. Brooksie, if I wanted to explain it to you, I would. He's waiting for the question. Because much like he's saying, I'm going to leave my suit there. He's also, I'm in the trench with Carter Hart. So do you think that's premeditated then? I think a little bit, yeah. And then all of a sudden ends and he's meeting.

Guys, what are we going to do about our goaltending? Totally. Yeah. Because, you know, we, you know, it's a difference now. they got a different goal tender in. Why weren't we down by four goals one game? And I could have put Aden Hill in. And he could have had a brand.

Like right now, if Brandon Bussie's not ready to play, apparently Freddie is MIA, and I'm saying that sympathetically. I mean, they called up a third guy from the American League. It seems like Freddie, whether he's heard or whatever. So anyway, if Brandon Bussie didn't get the chance to come up big now,

is it too late now? Like it is? Like you wish, yeah. It's pretty late. Well, even Alex Lyon said early on with Buffalo, thank God I got that one period. Yeah. And before, and it was way earlier before I started an actual game.

Yeah. All right. Well, we have Doug McLean. And he gets to go to Mac and talk to him, a former NHL president, GM and head coach, and most excited of all to ask you about the World Cup, Mac. Are you fired up? First off, the hat and the World Cup, both interest me.

Well, the hat is my son's company, the McLean Group, an agent company, and also elite hockey camps are running. So I just thought I'd wear it today. and, you know, show it up. It just came in. I kind of like it, you know. Yeah, we can't wait for that.

Beautiful hat. I can't read the 1-800 number on it. What is the 1-800 number? What was all the yelling before I came on? You guys were yelling. Like, what's, I mean, relax. It's almost over. You can, you know, you got the summers off.

We heard you were coming on and got excited. I didn't know. I won your World Cup take. Gord, you got to pencil me in in the fall for my new book that's coming out again. So just to, you know, make sure you got me penciled in. I know Bourne's pushing his already. Good God. Buddy, I already got a coach hired.

I got Sutter back in the league. I know you. I may bring you. I may go by Simon and Schuster and have you helped me out. See what we can do for you, Mac. Yeah. Are you paying attention to the World Cup at all? Does it interest you?

No. Okay. Zero. All right. Let's talk about hockey. People at home are pumped to hear that. Game five of the Stanley Cup playoffs last night. Were you surprised to see a character?

Carolina, pull ahead three, two. Not really. They've slowly taken over the series. I mean, the Bussy Kid obviously is a great story. Carter Hart's, I mean, look, what is he, 25, 26 consecutive games. I heard the question last night and I thought, you know what?

I didn't think it was a stupid question. I thought it was a pretty good question. But torts is becoming torts again, you know. It takes a while and then he becomes tort. So, you know, Bussie's been to me a great story. Stahl has been a great story. Slavin has been a great story. Slaven Stahl have really shut down the offense of the Knights, Golden Knights, to be quite honest.

Slavin has become a, you know, I mean, we've all known he's a star and a great defenseman. But to me, he's gone to another level. with leadership and the way he can shut down superstars. And stall, stall has been an amazing story. I mean, I remember the draft, you know,

I remember his draft year. It's, it's like I think of the taves and the stalls and all these kids that were such good players. And I kept missing them like, I have the six pick in that damn draft. I had the six pick when he goes, whatever second or third.

I mean, it just, it just. It drives me crazy. And then I watch it 38, how good he is. It's amazing to watch. But Eric was a star. This guy's a star.

And not only stars, but they're exactly what you want in a hockey player. Exactly what you want in a hockey player. It's like Rob Brindamore is exactly what I want in a coach. You know, exactly what I want in a coach. he's smart. He studies the game. He's terrific with his players. They know he's not easy on them,

but he's not crazy on them. You know, like some of these fools we got running around today. I just admire Roddy Brendan Moore as a player, and I admire him, I think even more as a coach. And that organization, people have no idea how important he, is to that organization. How many players have gone there?

Robinson, they got rid of him in Columbus. You know, I'm watching all these guys, Genkowski, I'm watching all these guys. They go, Eilers, look, Eelers has become a star. Taylor Hall. So nobody can tell me, you know, credit to management.

They've done a, hey, when you're this fire management, I've done a good job, but he's the glue, Roddy Brindamore. There's no denying that in my, That's just my own opinion. Well, and it's like Doug's the perfect guest to start. Did I mention the main group?

Did I mention the number? I didn't know if I brought it up or not. Yeah. Now, hey, so, okay, on the other side, I mean, Rod Brindamore is Carolina through and through. John Tortorella is just the guy that came. He's John Tortorella, who happens to have coached the Vegas Golden Knights for six weeks. So what does he do now?

Like, I mean, the goaltending is he's stuck, right? You can't put Aden Hill in now. So what, you've lost Carlson. So what can you look to do to try to counter? and that great word stave off elimination. Yeah, because Carlson became one of their most important players. Look, how good has he been since he left Columbus and was picked up in the expansion drive?

Unbelievable. How much and how well he's played for them. And then you see him on the bench with the elbow. You know what's a serious injury. He's a real important guy. Look, Torrance came into a toxic situation. there. I mean, that dressing room was toxic. And how does that happen? How does that happen that it becomes that horrific in that dressing room? And I heard, I heard Bruce on the other day saying,

you know, maybe I could have been easier on them. Easier on them. There must have been something different you can do than have that room, that toxic, that torts can come in there and they think he's the second coming of whoever. It was that bad, eh? It was that bad. And I know that for a fact, it was that bad. So, you know, it was like, you know, they felt they had no choice but to make a change with eight games left in the season. I mean, the Islanders did it with four. I'm not sure why they did it either if the truth was no one.

I mean, I'm not sure that DeBoer is a better coach in Patigua. I know Peter's had good runs, but I'm not sure he's a better coach in Paddy Gwa. while. I'm not sure of that. Or whoever else is available this summer. So I'm not sure why the panic was there either, other than to make $10 million to get in the first round. Yeah. So when you're looking at this series here, would you make this switch for goaltenders? I know you mentioned it briefly, but would you put Aden Hill in? Oh, that, you know, that, you know what, that's a question that you would have to, you would have to heavily involve your goalie coach in that one. because he's the guy that's been working with him

since they had to get him out of the net in late in the season. I mean, the guy, he had a, look, this is a Stanley Cup winning goaltender. This is a guy that has had a horrific season and wasn't able to get on track. I mean, how is he practiced in the last month? It's certainly not out of the question

that it's got to be considered. It's got to be considered. And look, the guys, the kids play 25, consecutive games. That's after not playing all season. Or was it two seasons? Yeah, two. And then he plays 25 straight.

How many guys, and that's going coast to coast, 25 games in a row. We've got goalies that can't play a back to back. I mean, come on, are you kidding? I can't play a back to back. What do you mean? The analytics says I can't play a back. back to back.

Freddie Anderson made it so far. He was like, he almost made it to the finish line. And then he didn't. Like, I'm so tired of Freddie Anderson. I, I know he's gonna get a Stanley Cup ring and all like like, but I feel so bad for him. He just can't seem to, to get there and get it done. And yet, he has been good for them. He has been good for them too.

You know, he's had a great run. He's been terrific all through the playoffs. And I feel for him that he, that he just can't get it over the finish line, whether it's fatigue or whether it's injuries, whatever it is, you know. So, you know, you've been the coach and you've been the general manager. And we're talking about the old-fashioned bulletin board material, which doesn't exist anymore, you try to avoid. But if you're the GM, are you loving John Tortorella's line?

Yeah, I'm leaving my clothes here, coming back for game seven. Are you saying, yeah, okay, I like that confidence? Are you saying maybe Carolina goes, okay, we'll show him? I don't know. Like what's your taking to? Where does that stand? in 2026. I want to be clear. Media, I love color, so I love something unique

like that, but I'm curious if you were the GM. You know what? I don't know anymore. I'm hearing coaches who haven't coached the game in their lives are going to get NHL jobs. It reminds me

of the Air Canada pilot who didn't have his license for 19 years and he's picking up the Artemis crew. Like, seriously, what is going on here? You know? It's unbelievable. Oh, I show up at a hospital. I'm going to do surgery.

Have you been to med school? No, I haven't been to med school. No, I'm here to coach an NHL team. Oh, great. I don't think courts, torts leaving his luggage in Carolina is going to make that big a difference. I would love to see it go seven games. I really would because it's been great hockey to watch.

It's been terrific hockey to watch. So I'd love to see it go seven games. I don't care who wins. You know, George McPhee's a good friend of mine. I don't know Tulski, but I know guys that have been in that organization. Rick Dudley was there for a long time. Quality people have been there. Look, I don't care who wins.

I'd love to see it go seven, though. But I don't think Torts' luggage is going to be that big an issue. I really don't. Do you think if they win or lose, it affects whether he comes back next year? I don't, Torts coming back. I don't see him coming back.

I don't. Really? If he wins the, I guess if he wins the Stanley Cup, he probably will. But if he doesn't, I, I don't know.

They made it pretty clear. It was an eight game contract. And it was for the playoffs. But, but in fairness to Torts, they've had an amazing run. I mean, they've been good team.

Yeah. And Torts. calmed the situation down. He did. He calmed it down and got it under control. And the players, it was like having a cloud lifted off them. I mean, and it happens in lots of situations with coaches

because eventually when the pressure gets on coaches and they change and they, you know, it's just a breath of fresh air to have a coaching change. It really is. And this one was one that definitely, they really believed they had to make a change.

They were scared to with 10 days left in the season, guys, they were nervous. They weren't going to make the playoffs. Oh, yeah. Vegas. They were scared they weren't going to make the playoffs. And that's one of the reasons that they made the change.

So I don't know if he comes back. I mean, look, I thought he was done five years ago. He keeps getting jobs. It's like Labuillette. He's on his seventh team. Like, oh, my God. Like, seriously. You know, it doesn't end, you know?

It doesn't end. And then you got guys, well, Toronto interviewed 55 people. So funny. And I know guys that weren't interviewed that are really good coaches that can't get inside that 55 group. Like seriously, talk about Air Canada. Oh, my God.

Well, the three of us had no problem. I don't know who the 52 other were. But anyway, well, now, okay, I haven't talked to you. All of a sudden, two parts to it. Mike Babcock in Edmonton about, okay, say he becomes the guy, okay, is he the right guy?

The fact that the players decided on that, which wouldn't be the first time, but just to this degree. And then these shows cold case files and forensic files. It's like they parked whatever the Columbus thing is. And I don't want to dig because I don't really know what went on. But apparently the NHL is going to have to give their stamp of approval. So what's your take? So did Edmonton do the due diligence and are confident or did they miss on this?

And this could be really problematic if they think he's their guy. Yeah, they did the due diligence. They picked up the phone and they said hello. And he said, yes, it's Daryl Cates, hire Babcock. That's the due diligence. But can you imagine what's going on in the NHL office court with Gary Betman? Because there's an unwritten rule in the NHL that you do not turn. You do not belittle the importance of the Stanley Cup.

Yeah. No distractions. do things that are detrimental to the Stanley Cup finals is final in particular in particular as John Shannon says it's called the final not can't say the finals it's the final but it is a betman would not be happy with this distraction you do not have these these types of situations in the Stanley Cup finals that are taken over the headlines I can't imagine how pissed off he is right now. But it's going to be Babs, right? That he's going to, he's going to code?

Like, he'll get through this. I don't know what you're hearing, but like, I don't hear anything that sounds. I know Frank Saravali has implied there's other stuff, but no one has said anything that I have heard that's not the phone thing. I've, you know, I sort of was a, I wasn't really close to it in Columbus, but I really, I knew what was going, what happened there. I knew that. And I'm with you. I did not hear of anything else that went on besides the phone picture thing. And I know it was kind of goofy.

I mean, the players lined up outside the office going out and said, he's checking your phones. Quick, start delete him. Get rid of the good stuff. You know, so I don't know that there's anything else. And then, you know what? But really bothers me, though. I've heard the

Franson thing where Lidsdram had to step in. Then I listened to Young Ferraro talk. I listened to Jason York, who I have a ton of respect for. I had him as a player in Detroit. You know, I really think a lot of Jason York and to hear what this guy is done to these people, I hope he doesn't.

But none of that stuff is illegal. It's being a jerk, but it's not. You can't keep him out of the league for it. It's not illegal other than, I guess, when your captain, Nick Listram has to step in and tell you to back off. Yeah. It's not illegal. But there's lots of things you can do as a boss that aren't 100% illegal,

but are bad and wrong. But we're talking, then you're talking about the Oilers decision to hire him, not should Babs be allowed to coach? Because those are separate things. don't tell me it's the Oilers decision to hire him. In my opinion, that's where it's all coming from. Well, did he not, he has to have consulted with Connor McDavid and maybe Leon Drysidell, right?

Yeah. So. And I guess, I guess they're, you know, like, what, what are they going to say? What are they going to say after what has happened to the last 20 coaches that have been there? I mean, think of the guys. they've gone through there. You know, and these two have been a part of a few of them, quite a few of them. Yeah.

I don't know what they say other than we want somebody that's really tough on us. But like Babcock won one Stanley Cup in Detroit with, what, five, seven Hall of Famers? Yeah. How many rounds did he win in Toronto? I guess it's zero, Doug. When was the Stanley Cup in 2008 one? I don't know what that means. I can say, you know.

What, what, I'm missing something here, I guess. I guess he's the greatest coach since Scotty Ballman. I don't know. Do you like someone who's won a cup in 2012 and 2014 and made the playoffs in 16 of 18 of their head coaching seasons? Could I sell you on that? Oh, I love Daryl Sutter. I love Daryl Sutter.

I love him. All right. You know, because you know what Daryl Sutter is, he's a straight shooter. Yeah. He tells you exactly what's going on. But he doesn't embarrass people, you know. He doesn't crucify people. He's a fair guy, in my opinion.

And I've known him a long time. And I really respect him. So you're there in Detroit. Illich family had taken over. And they became a gold standard franchise for so many years, became a winning franchise. there's so many years. You're part of it with Brian Murray getting it going. So how does it sit that a Michigan guy with four years left on his contract is saying he wants to play somewhere else?

And how much you think that Olympic bug and even the Four Nations face off or whoever has got to players saying, you know something? Winning is really sweet. Winning is really special. And I got to be a little more proactive to find a way to get to a spot that I want to be at. because I didn't, in Larkin's case, just like Quinn Hughes, I didn't sign up for this. Look, it's been nine years of not making the playoffs.

I don't know how long Larkin's been there. Is it any different than Werenstki has gone six years now without making the playoffs in Columbus? And yet, didn't he win the Norris this year? Yep. And, you know, it was in the running for even MVP. I saw his name listed. I don't know how far down the list it was, but I mean,

I don't like the fact that the captain has to do that. I'm shocked that the captain has to come out. And a Detroit kid, like you said, Gord, who he would have idolized Eisenman when he was a young kid. I guarantee every kid in Detroit idolized TV. I'm shocked by it. I am absolutely shocked by it. that it couldn't have been handled in a different way.

I'm shocked that if he wanted to, like, we know how Kuchuk handled it in Calgary. You know, he said, okay, I'm not going to resign here. So, you know, it's up to you guys. You better, you know, you might as well move me or are you going to get nothing for me? So at least I like that. Now, this guy's got four years left, as you said. I'm just surprised it wasn't handled differently.

I really am in that, you know, it could have been a cooperative thing, okay, we're going to try to move here, we're going to move here, we'll do whatever we can. And then you give them three teams. Yeah, that's tough. You know, it's tough. It's tough on management. I understand Larkin. He wants to be on a winner.

Everybody wants to be on a winner, you know. Like Stevie said it a couple of years ago when Larkin said, we need help at the deadline. What did Stevie say in the media? Stevie said maybe it can start with their captain being better. That's what Stevie said in so many words, if I'm not mistaken. Wasn't that sort of what was said? Yeah, they said stuff to the fact that they could got to come from inside the room sort of stuff.

Yeah. Right. So look, I don't like it. You know, it puts everybody in a bad situation. And what do they do? Well, they can set them out. But they're going to have to move them because Detroit's got to make the playoffs next year. And if this guy, is he going to sit out if he doesn't get traded?

I don't know. Mack, what's, you know, you've got your nationwide global bestseller draft day still out there. What do you think the Leafs are looking at here with this McKenna, potential McKenna pick, number one? How do you feel about their spot here? I know a lot of people want them to pick a D. What do you think they should do here? I think it's really, really tough. look, McKenna, actually my son's good friend

was the assistant coach at Penn State. I mean, this guy is a big time player, big time talent. I mean, does he have to mature? Yeah, he's got to mature, which I don't know many 18-year-olds that are already there, you know what I'm saying? So that's one thing. But I think that I'll be absolutely shocked if they don't take them number one.

And I understand we talked about it in this show, a month ago. The top 10 are really good and there's a group of defensemen there that are going to be real good NHL players. So they're going to get a very good player. I don't know how they cannot take McKenna. With what's

going on in DeTrono since Matthews was first overall, I can't understand. And a new management team, I can't for a minute believe they're going to stray from McKenna. Yeah, I think the sexy

pick, and they got to take it. They have no choice. I'm just wondering. And besides the sexy pick, but also he's a really good player. Yeah. Yeah. But I just mean the whole way, you know, and number one overall, like it's hard to move from that. I wonder, given what Vegas has done,

do you think some of the other teams in the top 10 will start looking at moving down or trading picks more so than the last decade or 20? Like Brian Burke always talks about the Siddines and Pronger and you can make trades and whatever. Different era back then because that rookie salary cap is such a valuable commodity now.

But do you think there might be a little bit more movement? You know, the whole Vegas and the Florida Panthers have totally changed team construction. They've totally changed team construction. And you go through, and I did it in my new book where I did, broke down the last five teams that have won cups. And you really look at how they, you look at how Vegas have constructed this team. and have a look at how Carolina have now constructed their team and how team and Florida Panthers, how they've constructed their team,

it is now do whatever you want with your draft picks. Oh, yeah. It's now winning with two or three draft picks on your team. Yeah. That's what has come to. That is a start change. And Vegas and Florida have single-handedly changed the formula. Yeah, it's different when people want to come

to your team, you know, that that helps. I understand that that's part of it. Right. Oh, big time. But look, let's not forget, Vegas Golden Knights traded Nick Suzuki. Yeah. For Patcheretti. Yeah.

And they've won a Stanley Cup and they're in the finals again. Yeah. That's, that's a team that pretty well tells you. And we, and I don't think I have to tell anybody out there this, they'll do whatever it takes to win. Yeah. And Nick Suzuki, imagine, If they had Nick Suzuki going into the next game, they'd probably feel a little better.

Wouldn't hurt. Wouldn't hurt. Mack, I know you're dying to get to watch the World Cup here. Canada's falling down one-nothing. Thanks for taking the time out of your day. When does it start? 31 minutes ago. I'm a big soccer fan.

Die hard. Die hard. Okay. Why am I here on a Friday night and Kiprios isn't? I assume he has a important engagement. Well, I would hope so. And I'll be finding out. We have a problem with this filling?

No, I'm always thrilled, Gord, when you're on. I really enjoyed it. You didn't ask any question. He's born hogged the whole show. I got no Kip for a day. I got to run with it. Anyway, guys, look, thanks a lot for having me on. I appreciate it.

and all the best. And hey, let's be excited. It's been a great Stanley Cup final. Absolutely. Leslie, thanks, Mack. That's Doug McLean, former NHL President, GM, head coach, author John Grisham-like numbers on his books. Check him out.

All right. So, unfortunately here, Canada Falls has fallen down 1-0. They've completely dominated. Yeah, they're playing great. Listen, as we say in the soccer world of the football world, they're asking questions. They are asking questions. They're asking questions.

All right. They are not being answered. Over to you. It's game time. Presented by Bet365. An official partner of the NHL must be 19 plus. Ontario only please play responsibly. The Toronto Blue Jays are back at the Rogers Center.

The Blue Jays? Yeah. We got World Cup. I mean, it's happening right now. The Blue Jays are home for a big series against their division. I don't know if you know who pays the bills around here, but the Blue Jays are pretty important. The Toronto Blue Jays are home to take on the New York Yankees.

Tonight a later start time, 737, due to wildness around the city of thousands of people literally just marching in the streets. So a little later start time. That's in Toronto. Trey Savage, who has the New York Yankees number, he is on the mound tonight against Weathers. Give me the Blue Jays tonight minus 115. And if you want the Knicks, I can give you the Knicks.

Let's go to the Knicks. That's a Saturday nighter. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I don't know if people know a couple days off. with the travel day, the game six of the cup final will be Sunday night. Interesting number here for me with the Knicks. The Knicks are big underdogs. Plus 165 on the money line.

San Antonio minus 200. So Bet365 is anticipating a big bounce back from the Spurs on their home court. That was game time presented by Bet365. An official partner of the NHL, MS-19 plus, and Taryn, please be responsibly. And as a reminder, this hour of Real Kippermborn is brought to you by Bet365. Absolutely. And when we come back, we have a lot more to talk about. Seneca Kutroff on the Hart Trophy.

But most importantly, Texas. Text number is $5.5.90. 590. Same as it's been every year. Our whole show for five years. All right. We'll be back after this break. Diving deep into Leaps, Raptors, Js, and NFL.

The Jady Bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. Welcome back to Real Kipper and Boren. Soccer update, the ice is tilted. Yeah. I would say my hockeyism about this game, boys are gripping their stick a little too tight right now.

Yeah. They just got to get one to go. They need an ugly one. That haircut right there. Yeah. Throw it over to McKee. Speaking of ugly one. Over to McKee.

Sammy, what do you got? Time now for the Accura performance matchup, the 2026, Accura MDX, precisely premium. Sunday night, like you mentioned. Two-day break for the travel from Carolina to Vegas. The good thing is John Tortorella is closed, not traveling. So they saved a little bit of cash on that.

8 p.m. Sunday night. Couple stats. My favorite part of the show, warning. It's best. Sammy stats. Where was I going to hear? Let's go with this one. Eelers, who had three points last night and in game four,

joined Connor McDavid as a second player in the last 34 years since 1992, to have to pose consecutive three-point games in the Stanley Cup final. Ooh. Yeah. McDavid had four points in each of his while facing elimination in 2020. Oh, my God. Yeah, they should have won that one. Yeah, sure should have.

God, that would have been one of the most heroic cups if they had to won that one. Jack Eichel with two points last night. It was a seven. Oh, my God. Became the seventh player in NHL history record multiple 20 assists post-season. Joining Wayne Gretzky, McDavid, Drysidal, Kutcherov, Doug Gilmore and Mark Messier. Pretty good company.

People are all over, Ikel, you know, for not, I don't know, doing enough. Pretty good hockey him last night. Yeah, yeah. He's just not scoring. Well, he is doing other things like John Tortorella said, but like Svetnikov, for example, that's exactly. But you know what incredible that you got Mitch Martin of the one game and now you got Stahl,

and we're talking about Rock of Richard and John Belvo. Like, I mean, like we're not talking 10 years ago about, you know, Rick DiPietro. or Paul D. Pietro or Chris Contos or John Drus or, you know, whatever that had a great playoff thing. Like, we're talking. The legends of the city. 60 years ago about, so I, like I, like everyone says, first of all, John Tarterill didn't guarantee game seven. He just said, I kept my clothes here, right?

So I think most of us. Maybe he's going back to hang out. I think most of us are wanting a game seven, I think, because that'll help it be a memorable series. And then I also think, because Sam talked about it. The two days off, I don't like it as a fan or a media person, but I think right now it's a good thing. I think they retired last night. I think the travel isn't easy.

It's not the mental, it's not the physical, but also the mental fatigue. I think it's a pretty good reset at this time to have an extra off day for game six. And if there's a game seven, the same thing. I think the extra day helps Carolina because they are peddled down as a team. And this gives them another day to kind of ramp back up for another one. You mentioned Jordan Stahl there, Derek. We have a great Brindamore clip on Jordan Stub.

If we want to play that, can we play that here? Clip two on Jordan Stahl, please, Derek. Brindamore. The playoffs, until you've done it and actually lived it and been through it, it's a massive grind mentally and physically. And, you know, you guys have to travel. You know how hard that is? Well, now I'm doing that every night.

And, you know, so at doing at his age just says a lot about him. And, you know, he's our, he's our guys. and he's our warrior and he's clearly. I'm really happy for him that you guys are getting to see it. I've got to see this for, I don't know how many years he's been there. How many? Forever. 14, every day.

So I'm very fortunate. Great clip. Love them. 14 in Carolina. Another four in pitchers. Really long career. One a cup there. Anyways.

That was the Accura performance matchup to 2026, Accura MDX, precisely premium. Some tax cute up here, Kuturoff. Yeah, Kuturov. Nikita Kutchev won the Hart Trophy by 10 points in the voting, which I think a first place vote is probably worth well more than 10. Like I think it was a very, very narrow margin over Connor McDavid, the best player in the world, whom I voted for to win the Hart Trophy. I don't know.

How do you feel about it? I don't, the point isn't to take away from Kutrov when I say that. It's to raise up McDavid. And we're just, we got it wrong. Well, and the other part, you can argue the hard. heart is the most valuable to his team, which really doesn't factor in in Kucharov here. I know they had a lot of injuries in Tampa Bay. So I actually thought it was between McKinnon and McDavid.

Like, you know, that's my vote. And it's funny because it's like, I know I make old references, but Nikita Kucheroff was the Rodney Dangerfield. I can't get, I can't get no respect about Hart Trophy voting historically. And this time, he certainly got enough respect. Yeah, no kidding. And again, this guy's awesome. My ballot was McDavid, McKinnon, Kutrov, Sellebrini, Werenski. Those were my five guys.

I just, you know, I look at the one that always stands out to me is LeBron James winning four MVP trophies over 20 years in the NBA. And it's like, come on. How many years is he the best player? Like 10 of them. Yeah. You know, and so I think historically that's what we're trying to highlight. I am to Kuchrov third.

I can't be too upset about it. How does Colorado, who has historic season, the president's trophy. They don't have a MVP, a coach of the year, a Norris. Like, I mean, how many times does that happen? A Vezna? Not of the major trophy.

Camp of A had, you know, they get Vesna, coach of the year, Hart trophy. Apparently, Kuch had lots of help according to the trophy voting. Anyway, he's a great player. In all time, you know, Hall of Famer obviously Kutcherov. And I think a best case scenario

everyone wants Gavin McKenna, to be that kind of small, shifty winger, be that kind. A couple of texts here. These are both from the same person and they're both great questions, so I'm going to ask them both.

Beautiful. First one is, why is Rod Brindyborne never considered as the coach for Team Canada? Ron from Oakville. God, I don't know. Yeah, well, I mean, there's a lot of really good ones.

I don't know. It does seem that when you get in the groove of it like Mike Babcock did and then John Cooper did, that there's a, you know, and Doug Armstrong on the general manager's side. So, yeah. That's true. though that like they've kind of been

like Babs was looked at as the best coach for a while there. Yeah. And then it became Cooper and so it's not like every year a new guy doesn't. Yeah. Yeah I think I've been the guy. I think they're looking for some continuity you know if things go well. So but yeah, how can you argue against Rod Brindamore? I think

there will be a very good case for him to be made certainly if they win the Stanley Cup here but already win in 15 times this playoffs. And the same also from two great questions. Knowing that he was traded already, the least not have to trade Matthew Nyes. It's a different management group now.

Totally. You get a fresh start when you're like, oh, new management, we wouldn't have traded you. I hate hearing this guy's name out there. What are we doing? Yeah. How do you feel about it? Crazy about this? No, no, you're right. Like, I mean, and I guess this is what, I don't know how much is fact or fiction and, you know, Keith Pelley even tried to

address. They said we used AI and we had this guy that Pelley brought a guy to the trade deadline table, like whatever. I got to think it was very unconventional. be polite this year, their trade deadline. And there was that deep article in the athletic, which was interesting, which kind of said there was a lot of dysfunctionalness at that particular point,

which goes with losing, which goes with losing, to be fair. But, yeah, the Matthew and I, and again, we can't ever get the real story what everything was involved in. But to your point, yeah, you got a new management group in now. And you got like no young players. So he's one of them. And he's a really good young player. When the season sucks, you got to make sure you don't, the whole thing, throw the baby out with the bathwater.

You know what I mean? And just by players playing like they can play would be a pretty, starting with goaltending and health would be a pretty good bounce back. I don't think Stanley Cup anymore, but I mean, it would be a pretty good bounce back that alone. I mean, when you're a forward and your team can't break the puck out, your numbers get hurt. Like Nye's had a career high with 66 points last year. If they get a couple of D-Men who move the puck better, he plays with some good line mates, he's 23. If anything, you should be shifting it all back to around those guys,

McKenna and Nyes and Cowan, whatever, then getting rid of those guys. Sure. Danford. Speaking of, Actimov, Danford, Cowan, they're going to be on your television. Oh, yeah, right. Game one of the Calder Cup final will be on Sportsnet.

Yeah. At a time, I don't know. APM. Tonight? 8 p.m. Eastern. Tonight. Tonight.

What's that 360? There you go. You're going to watch it? I'll have it on. Yeah. Back and forth with the Jays game, maybe. Yeah, I love it. I think I got too much going on.

Last thing. Oh. No, we got any texting. No, what are you doing? coaching. Joe Pavelski confirms the interest in coaching the Leafs and that they're talking to him. Any thoughts on Mac was kind of making fun of the idea that no experience and you get the job,

and by kind of, I mean, openly. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, So it's funny, our son, Justin, and his buddies were out in, yes, a pastime. Establishment downtown Toronto. I forget how many weeks ago.

And they look and they go, that's Joe Pavelsky, right? And he was coaching his kid's team. And that's why I think he's in Chicago. He's up here. Anyway, came over. And of course, Justin's gang knows Wyatt Johnston. That's their ilk. So he kind of started up, oh, show me.

Previously showed pictures of when they're in junior high together, whatever may be. And he said, he could have been nicer, bought beverages. That doesn't mean he qualifies him being an NFL coach. I mean, but the people skills, and I think they're looking at, it's obviously the Marty St. Louis model, which was a very inspired, different outside the box, and absolutely worked. Will it work all the time? No, but the most qualified person doesn't work either.

So I don't mind the different looks that they're getting. And you know, because the word is they were going to hire Peter Lavie-Lat, and he leveraged it to get a better offer from L.A. And I know, I know what staff, I don't know if that's fact, but it's also a lot of a staff, established coaches, they get tired of the interview process because it's a freebie to pick your brain. Totally. You know? And that's part of, are they looking at new people just to, you know, and guys get more.

If you interview in 55, I don't know what the number is. Doug said 55, but whatever the number is. You know, a lot of that is that and guys walk away. Look, I'm tired. I did eight interviews. I got my brain picked by eight different organizations who probably thought I gave them good stuff and I don't have a job. I'm intrigued by names that have done it before, but aren't necessarily worn down.

I like the idea of Dallas Aiken. You're right that, you know, I guess there's no guarantee that you get the most experienced guy or the least experienced guy and it's going to work. I hate that the league is a copycat league. And they're like, well, Montreal did it. And so we're going to do it. Montreal did the same thing.

It's gone well so far. But you don't know how that's going to play out. Pick the guy you like, have good interviews, whatever. There's a few good names in the mix. It should just, I mean, I've been saying this since, the beginning, but I don't know why Woodcroft hasn't been more of a name. And it feels like it's kind of trickled back in here a little bit, but it just seems like the perfect mix of a guy with a bit of experience with maybe a forward-thinking guy, ran a great

power play in Anaheim, coach stars before. I mean, I think I'd rather that than Pavalski. I don't know. Like, everybody's, all these fans are so, I'm like, I don't know how you could formulate any opinion. He just decided that Pavelsky could do. How would you formulate any opinion that he's going to be good or bad? I just, I don't know how to feel about it.

I'd have to see the first two months of the season to see what his style is, how he addresses the media, like what he is. Great guy by all accounts. Sure. So the, bought beers. Well, Dallas Aikenso, keep in mind, he's been under the tutelage of our good friend, Todd Alushka in Mannheim.

So that's only, he's only our former broadcast guy. Oh, yeah? The problem is the Leafs Press Box. I mean, everybody loves those pizza slices and those, the intermission ice cream. It's going to be gone. It's going to be gone, and he's going to be just carrots. sticks and celery. I know he learned from that.

He learned that Edmonton, whatever, swagger that blew up in his face about getting the donuts out and like, why you care if the donuts are in the media room and that. Yeah, no, he's more. And then they say assistant coaches, like, apparently like Lane Lambert, you know, a lot of people think that he's been a huge loss for the Toronto Maple Leafs as an assistant coach, much like one thing Rod Brindamore did years ago, Tom Dendon won't pay him top dollar and didn't pay him top dollar, but he said, I want you to take care of my assistant coaches.

Yeah. And Jeff Daniels has been there a thousand years. He was an assistant coach in 2006. He's there again. You know, so as much as the head coach is front and center, there's kind of a other part that it's on the quieter side. And we chatted with Matt Cullen this morning, who was part of that 2016. He said, what a great balance he was for, you know, a fiery coach like Lavellette back

then and a Rod Brindamore now about having those kind of assistance. But, you know, there's a lot of them. So what do some of them do? I don't mean that way. really that you've got, you know, they sink their teeth then, and they've got tangible things, and it's a really big contribution. Yeah. Well, Gordo, hey, listen, thank you so much for joining us today.

Canada still down once. Yeah. We'll get rid of born. We'll see you guys back on Monday.