Real Kyper & Bourne - Canes' Comeback + Inside the Failed Matthew Knies Trade with Doug MacLean

Episode Date: June 5, 2026

Justin Bourne is back for the Friday edition, and he shares some stories from the draft combine in Buffalo with Nick Kypreos. Then, they recap Carolina's Game 2 win to even up the Stanley Cup Final before welcoming in former NHL President, GM and head coach Doug MacLean (5:07) for Off-the-Rails Friday! Mac weighs in on Carolina's comeback, John Tortorella's costly challenge, Dylan Larkin's trade request, the Leafs' wide-reaching head coach search, and the reported deal Brad Treliving had that would've made Matthew Knies a Montreal Canadien. Later, Nick and Justin go deeper into the Leafs' reported Matthew Knies trade that fell through late, and whether John Chayka will revisit those trade talks this offseason. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Closing out the week on the fastest hour in hockey. It's the real Kipper and Bourne show. Nick Kiprios back in from the Combine and Buffalo, Justin Bourne. Producing in the spot of Sammy McKee is Danieli Franceschi. And Brandon Brown in for Derek Brandeo. And Jake the Snake Schultz. There we go.

All right. The team is still very much intact. We are intact. We are also live on SportsNet 590, The Fans, SportsSet 360, and Sportsnet Plus 3 to 4 p.m. As we close out, the Stanley Cup playoffs, still a lot of meat on the bone there. We are live on every episode of the Real Kippenborn, wherever you get your podcast, such as Spotify, Apple, and of course, YouTube, where we love the chats, as always, strong chats. and appreciate the thumbs up. And what we'll be doing without Sam some text lines too,

if you want to text in 59590, let Danieli know about them and he'll pass them on to us. Yeah, maybe, maybe not. But we got lots of content. We got clips, we got Chica. But we were jam-packed. We are jam-packed. We got so much out there, of course, game two.

Let us not forget, it's Friday, Off the Rails Friday. Doug McLean, they'll have plenty to say about game two last night. in Carolina. He'll have plenty to say about Matthew Nyes getting traded to Montreal only to find out that the deal didn't get through. Dylan Larkin. I want to get your thoughts on that.

But before we go any further, tell us about your little day trip to Buffalo. It was cool. I mean, I don't know if you had done any time at the Combine over your years of doing this stuff. It's a fairly newer event, right? It's a very newer event. The one thing that stood out to me, and I wrote a little bit about it today, is it's really good to get the kids in one place and they get to know each other and they shake a bunch of hands. And there's some humanity to it where it's not just like, oh, this kid's wingspan is this. And he does this many pull-ups.

And I feel like teams actually get to know the kids a little bit. That would feel productive to me if I were running a team. So you got a chance to talk to a lot of these top prospects? Yeah. Yeah. So Sportsnet, we had a room. spoke to, I think they got 30 guys coming through. We spoke to a dozen of them yesterday.

Gavin McKenna came through, Caleb Mahaltra. And yeah, we all got to ask some questions and feel them out. So I would imagine it would be a very wide range at 18 from this guy's very mature. This guy's very sophisticated. And this guy's a brick. Honestly, you do kind of forget, like at 18, they don't know a ton. They've been hockey players their whole life. that that's their world.

So what struck me is the difference between the European and the North American guys. European guys are like, oh, yeah, one kid, I'm from Lithuania, so I moved out at 12 and played in Switzerland. I speak four languages, you know, like all this sort of stuff. And then they go to, you know, so-and-so from upstate Minnesota.

You shouldn't be a hockey player. You should be like a spy. Some of our North American boys are just, yeah, they're good at hockey. Sure hope. McKenna, did you catch up to McKenna? Yeah, and it's really neat because there's, you know, Ailish forefathers in there. And she does a lot of the, you know, get to know the personality questions.

And then Bukala comes in on the back end of that right when he's getting comfy. And he's like, that weekend against Minnesota state, you know, whoever was, Michigan State. We're in January. What happened on the back check in the second period? Kids like, oh, oh, really? We're doing that, are we? And McKenna, is he like, is there some meat on the bone or can he float in a test tube? No.

No, I would say he's wiry. Yeah. He's wiry. But yeah, there's a lot of these guys. It's like, man, there's frames to build on for sure. But, you know, they're just big. Like a lot of the kids, 6-3, 6-4, 6-3, big kids in the first round. All right.

We're going to get to Doug McLean momentarily. But in the meantime, I know for me, game two was a little touching go based on what I saw in game one. Last night, Vegas gets off to the two-nothing start. And Carolina fights back. Did Vegas let him off the hook? Yeah. Anything change your mind about like the way you see the series routine? Well, just the resilience of Carolina and the consistency to stay with it.

I thought there was a few openings that Vegas certainly let them back in, including Rasmus Anderson having a tough third period, including Tortoralla's call, late call. in the third period. Do we have Mr. McLean? Yeah, you don't need to ask me anything. We got the man. All right, let's go.

Let's go out east where, if I'm not mistaken, you're hard labor today. You're digging ditches. You're digging up driveways. What's going on here? It doesn't go with the Porsche. Hey, listen, my daughter's getting married on July 11th. We've got to have the place looking great for the guests coming.

Jill, we didn't invite Nick for the wedding. Listen, I don't go anywhere. There's a cash bar. Jill said it's a toony bar. Tuny bar. Tuny bar? Jill said it got lost in the mail, obviously. That's okay.

But anyway, so Jill and I work today, we're working on putting in a new sidewalk, just cleaning things up a little bit. But, you know, and I'm working. But I am, I do have golf tomorrow morning, and I have a Sunday morning. Sanford, by the way, if you notice my shirt, Sanford, there's a new putter that I've got to try out this weekend from a group in Halifax,

buddies of mine, son, and I'm going to try it out. So like you, Kipper, I think I might get something free. If it's for free, it's for Mackie. And I hear it's a great putter. I hear it's a great putter. And you know what, my new putter I bought in Florida, it gets closer to the hole, but it won't go in. This one I think will go in. That's the hole putter.

I've heard that about them. All right, enough of this nonsense talk here. I'll frame the same question as I just did to Justin here. Did Vegas let Carolina off the hook with the 2-0 lead and then either Brassimus Anderson, you know, with a brain cramp to behind the net? Or Tororella's call? Where do you want to start? Just get the puck out.

Just get the puck out, you know, when you're in that situation. But look, after two periods, I'm saying, okay, Vegas have it under control. The Ahoo line, Aho line was not looking great again. The power play was just okay again. And I'm thinking they've got it under control. And Stankovin makes a great play, a great play, in my opinion. And for this guy, what, what's it tell you about small guys in the NHL when you watch Jarvis and him last night? Seriously, I mean, how good are they?

So I thought it was a great play, and it really, I think it really ignited the hurricanes, a play like that, and big mistakes. But Vegas, to me, when they lost McNabb, this guy is a warrior for them, and losing McNabb put a lot of pressure on their back end in a game that's as fast-paced as Carolina plays. And you get down to 5D,

Hanathan, it looked like he was starting, to struggle as the game progressed. And, you know, with five guys in a pressure situation with a team that plays as fast as Carolina, it's going to wear on you. And I thought it was a major turning point of the game, losing him. And especially a guy that has that much respect in the room that McNabb has. So, you know, there are a few things. I don't like Ikel's game at all.

Look, I sit there and I watch Ikel and a great 200-foot player, but there's still something missing for me there right now. You know, to me, he's got to be a lot better. I hate to keep bringing up Mariner's name, but I thought he was terrific last night. I mean, all over the ice. And then the plays by Howden, you know, in front of the net. And this is a guy that was a, you know,

first round pick of Tampa Bay. He played, I think, five games in Syracuse. Then went the Rangers. And all of a sudden he's been five years in Vegas. But what a story he's become. And what a play in front of the net. You know, this one on the goal, but the other one where he's right in tight, it has to make the big play.

So I just, you know, I'm just really impressed. So it's been great hockey for me. Both games have been great hockey. I've thoroughly enjoyed it. Credit to both teams. The youngsters for Carolina pulled it out last night. And unfortunately, Vegas don't have any youngsters. So does anything about how this.

is shaped out so far, whether it's the goal tending to date, the injury to McNabb, Carolina's power play getting going. Has anything changed your outlook for this series, or do you still feel the same about where things are headed? You know what? I hope Torch just keeps coaching. You know, when he steps out of the box and, like, I didn't like the call at all. And that's what I'm referring to.

Like, not at that time in a game, in that situation, in a Stanley Cup final, unless you cannot take a chance of giving up a parapleg. I know it wasn't the end result, but I didn't like it. The referee, was it the right call? He's standing up on the back of the net. The puck was not covered. Did the guy poke at it? I don't know.

It was not covered. But you can't find it. You can't see it. So you just assume he has it. So he's waving it off. There's no chance that is going to be turned over. There's no chance that's going to be turned over. So, you know, he says you'll do it 10 out of 10.

I'm not sure about that. Yeah, I'm not sure about that either. And look, in fairness to torts, he's gone into a situation where this team, and I know this for a fact, they were scared to death they weren't going to make the playoffs. Vegas. Two weeks left in the season. They were really uptight.

He comes in and calms the situation. It was a disaster in the room, a total disaster in the room. And they've got enough presence. Their veterans have enough presence to say, hey, we need, don't kid yourself. The veterans in that team really forced to change the coaching, in my opinion. So look, Torts has done a good. good job. I just didn't like that

play last night, that move. And is that power play goal in overtime, the sixth time that has happened in the history of the NHL? When do you see a power play?

I know, Mac, but like it... But I didn't like it either, but it's, it, I think, who is it, Barbishev or? Hurtle. Hurdle doesn't get the puck out.

He loses his position and he puts his stick in the guy's skates. I mean, I hated it too, but I'm okay with the call. You know, at the end of the day, I'm okay with it. And, you know, Jarvis makes, I mean, was that not OV like that shot in that play? Gostisbeer froze him too, eh? Like, he's great up there. Yeah, Gostisbears great at the top. Oh, big time.

Gostisper makes a good play. and, you know, I thought it was a great play by the kid. So, you know, no chance for the goaltender. Power play has been brutal. And now, you know, now because of how the game ends, you know, this team has got a chance. If they get their power play going and they get the Aho line going, it's going to be a more of a battle of a series. I still like the way Vegas play, big man's hockey.

They play hard. They play physical. Barbara Shev to me is a beast, you know, most of the time. I just think they've got to get Eichael going better. Stone gives him everything he's got. What's the Eichael got? He's carrying them. I know he's got 19 points, 20 points, but he's got two goals in 17 games.

He eats it, though, right? That line goes out there. It's Slavon. It's Jaffield. It's stall. It's Martinuk. He's got to be more of a threat to put the puck in the net. No question about it.

All right, Mack. Anything else on this? series before we kind of move on to Stevie Eisenman's dilemma? Stevie Wise dilemma I think we should move on to okay as was reported by our very own

Elliot Friedman the man wants out. Based on what we heard last season about his disappointment at the trade deadline going into this season Mack I don't know how truly surprised we can be here but well didn't he say

didn't Stevie say a couple years ago when he said we need help with the deadline that maybe our captain could step up and play a little better. Did he? Is that not a comment? Was that not a comment by Steve? If it was, then you heard it. We believe you. Yeah.

Yeah. So I think there's been a little battle brewing here. The situation is, if I'm Stevie, I say, I'll trade you when I get the right deal. And maybe it'll be a year. Maybe it'll be a year. You know, what's he going to do? You think he's going to put Stevie Y to the fire in this? Yes, I do.

I think Stevie's backs against the wall. Well, if he does, then Stevie should get his back up. And when Stevie gets his, I was with Stevie for five years. When he gets his back up, he gets his backup. And these aren't easy deals to make. These aren't, look, we went through the Mariner thing. We've got this guy. We're going to have Matthews.

We're going to have McDavid. We're going to have a slew of these guys. because of what happened in the CBA with seven-year unrestricted free agency, it's happening all across the league, and it's happening here. I'm not sure I'm putting Larkin in the same category as the other names I just listed. I'm not so – I like Dylan Larkin. I like him, but he is a long way from a franchise player, in my opinion. Wow.

And what is the price? I know he had 35 goals, 34 goals this year. I know he's a good player, but he's a long way from a franchise player. I would have thought he would have led them to the playoffs by now. I would have thought he would have. That's what I would have thought. Nobody over the course of my broadcasting career has been more pro player than me. And I respect that guys earn the right for no movement clauses.

And, you know, they have power. And Dylan Larkin has a lot of power here. You know, there's something to be said for a guy that now wants to be in a position where he wants to go play play playoff hockey, but, you know, in the last 10 years, you've played none. And, you know, Dylan Larkins played five career NHL playoff games. He knows that. Five. And, you know, some of it's not your fault, but, like, to your point, and maybe Stevie

Eisenman, some of it may be. And what did I hear today that maybe? there's a list of two or three teams. It's going to be tough, Matt, to get a deal done. I heard Minnesota and the Florida teams. And you know what? With this type of player, you cannot be forced to make a deal. These type of deals are really challenging to make for a GM.

And, you know, I guess we saw Billy Garon, Acquire Quinn, and everybody thinks it's a piece of cake. But I don't think this is going to be an easy one. I mean, like people are saying he'd be a great number two centermen on a championship team. Well, what's the price, I guess, for a number two centerman? If that's what he really is on a really good team. I like it way more than you guys. And you can't.

Well, I, I understand. I appreciate that. I just, you know, I would have hoped that he would have contributed more to getting this team in the playoffs. That's all. They were right there this year. They were right there, you know, three quarters way through the year to get him. also means that Stevie Y is not in a position here to collect multiple picks or assets here. You cannot go and get someone else's top prospect and two first rounders for him.

That serves Stevie Y and the Detroit market like zero. And he can't get WAA for him either. You know, he can't get Woff for him. Right. So it's a fine line here. But Stevie, like, I know him pretty well, and this would bother him, but this isn't going to define him.

How much of this, though, Mac, like, if he goes out and he gets, he's a guy who's had assets and they've been waiting to turn the corner, if he can get Quinn Hughes or Robert Thomas or a big name, is Dylan Larkin more content to stay and the whole thing is held together? No, the damage is done. What do you mean? You can't turn around and say, okay, now I'm going to stay. day because you got those two guys.

That's a bad look for a captain. Yeah, I don't think he'd say it. Who's going to jump off the boat if this is a slippery. That's what this all is. Matthews, with Brady with Robert Thomas. It's a slippery slope. It is.

And here's the sit. But I'm not putting Larkin in the category of the guys you just talked about. I'm sorry, he does not deserve to be in the Matthews category. I don't even have them in the Mariner category. I know Toronto people. will be mad at me about saying that. But what I've watched a murder this year and watched what I watched last night

in that game, how he competed and how he battled right to the end, I don't have them in that category right now. I'm sorry, I don't. And, you know, you can't. So, but still, Stevie Y can't be boxed in here. And players have the right. I get it.

They've got the right. And Stevie's got the right to make the right trade. If New Jersey... If he loses... He's got five years. Guys, he's got five years. years. Can you imagine this conversation be in Edmonton with McDavid with five years

or with Matthews with five years? Give me a break. Matthew 9. What leverage does he have? He can sit out. We'll get to Nyes in a second here. But like New Jersey, they got Nico Hescher, who's eligible to re-op. Yeah. To me, that makes sense. Larkin for Hischer. Yeah, except one guy's got five-year term and the other guy's not. I know. The devils also need all their bullets to get quit use. And that's, you know, that's the problem.

This is a guy that's signed for five years. And whoever gets them is, you know, it's a guaranteed deal. This isn't like a heeshire. It's not even like the rest of the guys that have got two years left before they walk. But I'm telling you, it is going to hit the league like a storm here in the next couple of years. And something, what is going to be done? about this issue with top guys demanding to be out and guys letting their contracts expire. Do you think the league sees it as a problem?

I see it as a problem because you know where they're going to be all. If you could put on one on three fingers where they all want to play. I mean, like, I mean, Ottawa Senators with Brady, McDavid, Matthews, what happened with Mariner? I mean, how many franchise, I mean, getting Nicholas Woff for Merner may keep the Leafs out of the playoffs for the next three or four years. It may. That deal alone may keep them out of the playoffs for the next three or four years. I don't care who they get to coach. I don't care who they get to coach.

I'm anxious to see who's going to come down the pipe to play for them. Speaking of coaches, the Toronto Maple Leafs, according to John Chica, as, you know, interviewed, I think, 55 guys. Surely you're one of them. That's a tough number, man. That's too high number. Fifty five coaches.

I know. I couldn't name 55 coaches. How did they come up with the list? Who can name 55 coaches? That would be tough. That is a great comment. How many did he interview for the

what's the new job there? Chief of Staff. assistant executive chief of associate hiring. I thought he was talking about the White House, the chief of staff and the White House. Oh my God. What is going on? What?

I like that time. I thought the chief of staff was the GM. I didn't know the chief of staff was somebody else. The chief delegator of staff. Chief delegator. Oh, my God. It drives me bad. Talk about trying to get alignment and PR.

Oh, my God. I'm shaking my head. Anyway, 55 coaches have been interviewed. I didn't know that. Yeah. Was it 55? It was 55. One of them is the names you hear the most.

Dallas Akins comes up. Laviolet. You had some comments on Patrick Waugh earlier today on the morning program, I believe. Yeah. Now would they go back to maybe Dallas Akins and say, we had you at 42, but sorry. You know, we ranked you the, Oh, yeah.

I happen to like Dallas. I happen to like Dallas. Me too. I think he gets it. And I'm actually styling my hair after how. Remember he used to have it just I'm styling my hair after his now a little bit. And I happen to like Dallas. And I mean, Lab, you let, please, come on. Patrick Gua, I don't have a problem with. I thought Patrick did a pretty good job in the island this year. I think that the islanders will come to regret that move this year. I really believe they will regret the move of going by Patrick Waugh for Peter DeBore.

I just, I think, mark my words on that. Yeah. I mean, I... Except that Schaefer may become too good that a coach could hurt him. I was on the morning show today and I just said for me, like, I just don't see John Chica going the Patrick Waugh way.

It just doesn't strike me as his type of guy. It could be totally out to left field. on this. I think there's a big threat for pushback there with Waugh, right? Wa is going to dig in and what he believes in. Yeah, and I, why, I don't under, I don't know Chica that

well. I know his sister better than I know him, so that tells you where I am in the picture. And I, I know her. Because you're an analytics guru. I'm so into analytics. You know, I, you know, I, I follow her, so I, you know, I don't know him that well, though.

So I don't know if a guy that digs his heels in would bother him or not. wouldn't have a clue. Do we think that Chica follows up with the Montreal Canadians where Brad Tree Living left off at the trade deadline where, you know, according to a few reports, including our Elliott Friedman, that a deal was in place, Mac. You buy it? Well, I keep hearing a deal was in place and I'm trying to figure this out. You could be a general manager in the NHL and go five to eight years before you could get a player that has the potential of nyes. So why are you even, why is this even coming up?

I don't get that. And I know you need, I know you need prospects and I know you need assets. But this is a player that you strive for. If they go to the draft and they get another, so let's say they get, we don't even know if the number one pick overall is going to become a better, player than Matthew Nyes. We don't know that. We don't, like somebody said to me today,

that the kid in Yukon is, is, it is like a Marner. He's like a Marner. He's not a big guy. Great playmaker. Good skill. Yeah, Marners won't win the Con Smyth. That's a good thing. He's like, yeah, but I'm saying, you could also go five years

before you get another guy as good as Nyes and you're looking to trade them. You don't have any players. Why are you talking about your best guy? It doesn't even make sense, Mac. Unless you can get a number one defenseman for him or a guy that can move the puck out of your own zone. Then we're talking, but it's got to be comparable age, skill.

This is crazy talk. You've got Matthews going to be 30, Nylander going to be 30. Nyes is 23, and you're going to trade Nyes to get younger theirs? I don't. Are we? It makes no sense. And it didn't make any sense when I heard it at the deadline. And I mean, I don't know where these stuff.

And hey, maybe it was there. Maybe they were that hungry to get assets at that time. But Chica, that's the last thing Chica should do, in my opinion. He's trying to find players. I did also hear that the deal was done, but they didn't get it in on time. Like, is it always been that strict, Mac, as far back as you remember in terms of the 3 p.m. deadline? Remember it happened with Bill Watson? Remember the fax machine broke or something. Do you not remember that? Wasn't it Bill and Pat Quinn that the fax machine didn't work and they missed a trade? I mean, yeah, I mean, they're lined up there. It's got to be into the office before three o'clock. Everybody knows that before three o'clock. I mean, I've had a deal go in as late as 10 to 3, you know, but. And make it? And made it. And made it. Yeah. I wish it wouldn't, but it did make it.

I wish it would have been turned back. A few of them, I bet. I don't know how much time we have or how much we need another minute or two. I don't know if you saw today. Cliff Fletcher, 90 years old, passed away today. Oh, I did not. Just before we came on air. I did not hear the news.

Oh, condolences to the Fletcher family. Yeah. He's a great bad. Condolences, you know what? I used to, when I was working at Sportsnet, I used to meet Cliff at the, Oh, what was the great bar on St. Andrews? The great wine bar, Nick.

Chantros? No, not Chantros. No, anyway. I used to meet Cliff there. You were like Norm there from Cheers. I was Norm, for sure. But I used to meet Cliff, and we used to have some great talks. He was a gentleman.

He and Linda came to P.E.I. He and Linda came to P.E.I. And we hung out for the weekend. He's a legend. And I really, condolences to the family, Chuck. And, you know, it's really sad to hear. Christy, yeah, I'm really sad to hear. Yeah, traded for me.

Oh, is that right? Brought me to Toronto. Cool. Why would he, why did he have the nickname Trader Cliff then if he traded for you? I hear Dougie Gilmore's name and those names, but I never heard. Cliff has never brought that up. Cliff always kept a lid on the top trades that he made. That's why back.

Anyway, he was a legend and really, that's a sad day. It is for sure. Yeah. Anything else bugging you or you're good to go? We'll let you out early get back to the shovel. You know what? I'm really excited about a great finish to this series. I mean, I can't wait.

I'm you know, Vegas, I'd like to, I'll tell you what I like. We got two GMs here that you couldn't find two different cats. McCriman and Tulski. So I'm really anxious to see how it all unfolds here. Same with the teams. The teams are the same way. They're entirely different. Entirely different.

So it's going to be fun to watch how it unfolds. And, you know, I just, I think it's going to be. give a great finish to a great year, and we'll see what happens. Just a bit of a shout out for Jordan Stahl, who looks every part of a number one centerman. I don't know if he can close this thing out being that guy at that age, Mack. But what he's doing is incredible. Do you remember that draft when it was Jonathan Taves and Stahl were in that draft list? And Kessel was in that group.

Eric Johnson was in that group who went first overall. and I remember just praying, praying at the draft table. I was going to get Taves or stall. I was praying. Anyway, I didn't get either one of them. But I did get Derek Bessert at six, and I did get a hockey player. Yeah, he was a good kid, great kid.

At least your prayers are answered every Friday on our show. How many more weeks? Just maybe one. Four? I don't know. I don't know. When are they shutting you down? Well, we're shutting you down right now.

One or two more weeks, hon. Thanks for doing this, Mac. Thanks for having me, guys. Thanks, Max. Where's Sammy? Where's Sammy? No one knows. I literally don't know.

A grandmother is turning 99. And he's so depressed about Marner. He can't even function. Can't even function. Anyway, I'd be that. Thanks, guys, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate. Doug McLean, former NHL president, GM, head coach,

and I don't know what else. It's game time. presented by Bet 365, an official partner of the NHL must be 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Tonight is game two of the NBA finals. I don't know if you watch the Knicks of San Antonio Spurs. Yep, off and on. Yeah.

It's exciting. It's exciting. Great series. I mean, a massive event with the Knicks being involved in Wemby being, you know, now the biggest name in basketball. Knicks are plus 190 on the money line, but let's go to hockey. Stanley Cup final consmite odds. is most likely to win the cons to my trophy i had a weird thought while we well you guys were talking

like if the carolina hurricanes win the stanley cup yeah who is the guy who they couldn't have done it without most it's probably slaving he's not even on the list of guys here up to plus i don't have them i don't have them as uh bad guy no so but then but then honest question yeah who is um yeah stan covey's numbers are good they don't win it without jordan stall they don't win it without Jordan Stone. He's not even a registered name. Taylor Hall's numbers have been good. He has the best odds of skaters on the team plus 550. No one is better. Logan Stancove would plus 650. I think if a strong finish with a Stanley Cup could get Seth Jarvis there. So plus 3,300. If you're looking for value, you think Keynes might get in.

Jarvis has a couple more. He's got to be like super hot. But he's the biggest name I think, Kipp. If he's even close, he wins. So, you know, two assists for Marner. and their primary assists. I don't know if people realize what the difference between a second assist and a primary assist, but I don't know what he's at, 14, maybe primary assist. That number's off the charts for me. Yeah, no, he's the favorite of plus 145.

Freddie Anderson is next closest at plus 350. I just don't see how you give it to Freddie. Like if, you know, first two games. Some Freddie gave up two goals on six shots. And let's not forget, Marner hit. the crossbar or Vegas goes up three nothing and they go home up to two two games to nothing. Hey, you talk to Kelly Rudy. It's all he gave him.

Right. Right. Yes, ready. Carter Hart plus 10,000. Still wide open. They won't give it to Carter Hart. Nope. They won't vote for him.

You know, it's, I mean, I don't necessarily agree with that. I think if he's the best guy, clearly they would. But I think if it's close, they won't. Yeah, I don't even think they would if it's close. You don't think if he's the runaway guy, though? I don't know. I mean, yeah. Well, it's your public.

Right. Yeah. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see where he falls into second or third if Vegas wins it. But I don't know. It's a very touchy subject right now. It is. All right.

That was game time presented by Bet365. An official partner of the NHL must be 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Okay. Still more on the real Kipper and Bourne show as we go NHL News and Notes with my good buddy, J.B. We got a few clips out of game two. And we'll just talk a little bit more about Matthew Nyes

because I'll tell you how at least I perceived the trade deadline and what happened. I'm looking forward to that. That more when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. The best Blue Js show out there, period. Blair and Barker. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome back in studio. Nick Caprio's Justin Boren off the rails Friday. No Sammy McKee, Danieli, Disco Dan, pushing all the right buttons. All right, J.B., what do you have for us? All right, time now for the Accura performance matchup. The 2026 Accura MDX, precisely premium. Wanted to talk about a couple of guys going head to head in this series. Brett Howden, Jordan Stahl. Howden's numbers are baffling.

He scored twice last night in game two of the cup final. He currently leads the playoffs with 13 goals. Historical perspective on that. He's the fourth player in the last 27 years to match or exceed his regular season goal total in the playoffs. Last to do it was Jason Schwartz in 2019 when the Blues won, who had 11 goals and then 12 in the playoffs. So he's actually the first player in NHL history to score 12 or more goals in the playoffs and then exceed, or sorry, in the regular season, and then exceed that in the playoffs. So this guy is doing historical stuff. Those two goals he scored last night.

World class. Like skills, strength, speed, just a bully. I know. Like where, how do you only score 12 goals all year? You got this in your bag and you can only get 12? I know. It's really kind of unexplainable. I experienced something like that early in my career with John Drews,

who scored 14 goals in 17 games, if I'm not mistaken. And he and we didn't even get. to a Stanley Cup final. Right. 14 goals and we got swept in the conference final. Think about that. And we're like, he'd have the most ever.

We're looking at him going like, who are you? And I am sure Howden's getting the same thing from the boys in a fun way and a we love it way. But like it's just, it's just like an out of body experience for him. I'm sure. Everything is like,

He touches is gold. Sixth player in the history of the NHL to score 10 or more road goals. The guys on Hockey Night in Canada last night mentioned Edmonton's Pissani. Oh, Fernando Pissani. There's a flyer guy, too. Billy Lano, maybe. Billy Lano. Didn't he have a great play at front for the Flyers once in a time?

I think you're right. And then on the other side of things, Jordan Stahl, 12th player 37 or older to score multiple goals in the Stanley Cup final. Marchand and Coro Perry both did it last year. So that was the Accurate Performance Matchup, the 2026 Accura MDX precisely premium. Okay, just to kind of, too bad Sammy's not here because the most time I'm going to,

I've talked about the Leafs in like three weeks in a month. He's not here, poor guy. So the Leafs out of the playoffs and Brad Tree Living goes into the trade deadline. And it's really about, doing something significant for him. And at some point, whatever the strategy was prior to that,

to that moment at the trade deadline, it was all about, like, asset management and accumulating assets. And he made the decision to trade Matthew Nyes. It was the Russian, the second rounder. Alexander Zarikovsky. Yes, two first rounders, but there was a

Sarovsky, sorry. There was another roster player involved. There was four pieces. And they stuck hard on that, Michael, uh, Hage. They stayed on it. And they probably stayed on it a little too long.

Oh, maybe that put it over the sand run out of the hourglass. Right. And it just didn't happen. Now, Brad's also notorious for, late, late, late, right at the buzzer. Oh, I've noticed.

Okay, yes. And it just got, it got caught in it. It was too late and the league had it null-in-void. Somebody mentioned to me that Scott Lotton, if they went back and really looked closely, maybe that one shouldn't have gotten through either. Really? Yes.

And I don't know if it was the league saying, we'll give you this. one of these. We're not going to give you that one. And why didn't they run that one through first? If you think you'd want the big one, make sure this one gets through. Yeah.

And then there was that. I was yelling about this all year about being proactive, being early looking ahead. And if you're going to make a monster move. But that's not his style. It's not his style. It doesn't seem like that. That's a name you want the whole league involved in.

Yeah. At the draft. I don't think anyone should be involved at all. But if you're going, Montreal is sitting there going, like there's a lot. lot of reports out there. There's a lot of reports out there. Montreal was disappointed because they thought they had a deal done. Oh, that would have changed their looking playoffs.

30 goal scoring 220 pounds. Honestly, they need, as we found out against Carolina, they need more of a center than they did Nyes. And that's where I think the focus is going to be here. And I don't know where Larkin is in all probability will want nothing to do with Canada. Seems like a lot of players on that Olympic roster. Yeah. really want nothing to do with Canada.

Well, how about they must all be, what a bunch of babies. They were all at the back of the bus going, no, my team's the worst I want out. No, I want, well, it's all, they all just had little pity party about their teams, apparently. Yeah, yeah. So does Chica want to go and revisit anything there? I don't know, but for the Leafs now,

to Doug's point and to your point as well, you've been very clear on all of this. Like, that nice trade for those four, for, for, uh, assets we were talking about, it's all about the future. That's a rebuild. So tell me that deal is about Willie and I can go, okay, I see what you're doing here. You're trying to get a core that's all the same age or whatever, but to cut the

knees out of a 23-year-old to get a 20-year-old. That's a total major rebuild. That is not we're going to try to make the playoffs next year, trade. Right. At which point, you should just trade the other two if you had done the nice deal. If that had gone through by one minute, you probably need to trade the other two. Yeah. So we don't know still.

Like we've gotten the impression from the press conferences and Chica on a few occasions about wanting to win now. And but they're there, that, that's a trade that you make for the next three or five years, not to try to make the playoffs next year. So like Brad was going to do that, I guess. I don't know. It's, it's, the details are pretty nuts. And I don't think, I think the Leafs dodged a bullet there. You want anything from Chica on a clip?

Sure. We did, he did speak at the Combine. Well, before we get to that, and I do think it's cool for us to get to that. But I do think the player movement stuff this time of year is fascinating. Darnel Nurse's name came up. Yes. He was talking about that. He was on my trade board.

He was okay. Maybe two weeks ago. Yeah. And what, what my- It's just time. It's just time. So it's like Morgan Ryan. They're all, they're all waiting for their respective teams to come back.

Morgan and Darnell are waiting. It could happen in a few days. Everyone's together right now, right? Like, it's got to believe, like last night everyone's out. I would say within 10 days to two weeks, those respective teams, and we'll throw Dougie Hamilton as well in New Jersey, they'll be getting calls from their management teams saying, we're going to explore a few places.

You guys obviously have no moves, but we're going to try to work with it, but we're going to try to move on. The one thing that does strike me is like, when these big names become available, there's only so many teams who can afford to acquire big names. And there's a lot of big names suddenly. Dylan Larkin, you know, Robert Thomas is still out there, Jordan Kairn. Yeah, I don't believe Robert Thomas is. I don't believe that they were ever serious about Robert Thomas.

One of those things where it's like, all right, if you guys are getting weird, we'll do it. But lots of noise around Buffalo and Montreal, but no, I hear they're cool off of trading Robert Thomas and Cairo. Yeah. Kyru is the guy. Yeah, I mean, that makes more sense to me. I believe Thomas is younger, more effective in my opinion. So that makes sense. But there's names to be had out there.

Is there, again, we've thrown this out before, but Nurse coming to Toronto and Morgan going out there? I just can't see it. I don't you think nurses like When those guys again are in control When they're in control They're not easy deals to make And both are in dire need of just A fresh start

So what you're selling to Darnel comes home Tell me why both teams say yes Leaves like it because Leaves like it because it's a different look They get bigger and tougher And And

Morgan may like it because it gives them a chance to win with Connor McDavid. Both guys under contract till 2030. Both the same age, year difference? A year difference, I think. Yeah, Riley's older by a year, I think. And Nurse makes a million and a half more at least. Flip a contract and even it out. But...

Okay. I don't know. My opinion is, it's... I guess it depends what are you trying to do if you're the Leafs? It doesn't make sense to me. I'd rather you just not had Riley and not take nurse back. I don't know what that means exactly, but rather you work on spending that space somewhere.

Some way that you... Nurse, I get, like, you know, sometimes he struggles a little bit, but that guy shows up. That guy plays and he competes. At times, does it look great? No. But I will give Darnell Nurse a ton of credit because that guy, he doesn't come to the rank with a, pulled groin, that guy plays

through a lot of crap, and he plays as hard as he can. My biggest sales pitch for him is that. I don't mind the player, I mind the contract. I get it. I get it. He's in there. He plays his minutes. You got Morgan's anyways at seven and a half, and I know his is at $2 million dollars more, but if you can

work it out a little bit, if the money worked out a little bit, do it. Would they eat a little or something? Do it. Maybe you talk. Yeah. All right. Well, that's enough on those guys. Should we do the leafy stuff? What do you got?

Okay. So John Chike was asked some questions about what he's learned on Gavin McKenna. He's asked out the possibility of trading the first overall pick. I got to say. So in my experience here down in Buffalo talking to people meeting McKenna, I just don't think there's anyone who would have the chutzpah to not take them. I agree. Like I just, even if you think, hey, maybe coin tossing, who's a moment.

more effective NHLer. Yeah. The ceiling on this guy, the, he's been so elite for so long. The story about, you know,

going to Penn State, it's a much different level of hockey and the second half of the year he makes the adjustment. He's just putting up disgusting numbers. He's a hundred plus point NHL player.

One day. Yeah. And maybe 45, 50 as early as next season. Yeah, sure. Right? Oh, yeah. Under the right circumstances.

They're going to put them with Matthews. Like they're going to. Yeah. I'm not sure how Austin would feel about that. They had Max Stoney with him last year. I know, but listen, I've been in rooms with 30-plus-year-old guys. You bring an 18-year-old kid.

It feels like... But Matthews has been that kid, kid. It's different. I know, but it's not where he is now. So he understands the growing pains. And, you know, in many ways, like, is Austin going to take him under his wing? Is he going to protect him?

Is he going to, you know, be that guy? And I don't know. I mean, is Austin that type of guy, first of all? Does he want to take on that responsibility? Or does he just want to go somewhere and kind of be, you know, left alone? I think that's a great question. I mean, I think he loves being a star. And I think the best chance he has to score 50 is something.

I don't think if they drafts Stenberg, what changes? Like, he's a winger who they'll probably play with Matthew. Okay. You know, like he's still got to do it regardless, I think. That's what he's facing down next to. Yeah. I think it's a tough challenge to make Austin happy. Well, if that's a problem, then it's a problem. Yeah.

But we won't know it's a problem, probably for, I don't know, another six months, seven months, eight months. From now. From now. Yeah. It'll hide in disguise. I don't, there'll be no Dylan larking out of him right now. They need to get into the season for a couple months and see if it's working.

See if it's working. If it's not, then he's not happy, what are you going to do about it? You can't stay with someone who doesn't want to be with you. All right. Do you want to listen to him on the possibility of trading that pick? No. What do you like there? What do you say about Max?

Because a lot of people are very concerned about Max Domi and his surgery. Let's have a listen. Clip six. Yeah, Max is a tough situation. You know, obviously he's a special person and loves the Leafs. And we love him. And, you know, he had a procedure, didn't go the way we had hoped. He played through some injuries.

That part seems to be genetics, I guess, to play through things. And tough kid. But ultimately, you know, we'll get to the training camp and assess him from there. It's making great progress. And, you know, every day, which is the main thing. And, yeah, like I said, we'll get to training camp and continue to assess him and go from there. When he said he played through things in its genetic, Was he speaking of how tough his dad was?

Yes. Yeah, yeah. He's saying he's willing like his dad to lay it on the line. So as someone that retired with a concussion and understanding on being old school and needing to like wipe the dirt off and keep going, I have a very fine line where sometimes doctors and management teams have to step in and say, Listen, we know how tough you are and how you want to play through this, but we're shutting you down.

Totally. Totally. We got to go. We got to go. All right. Just me and you, eh? I know. We could have done too. We have 3008 more clips because Y'L.A.

Pull them all today. Thanks to Doug McLean on Off the Rails Friday. If you get a chance, give us a rating and review. We'd love to hear from you. Have a great weekend, everybody. Game three.