Real Kyper & Bourne - Canucks' Direction + Prospect Rank Changes with Jason Bukala

Episode Date: November 25, 2025

Co-host of Donnie and Dhali, Rick Dhaliwal joins Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne (2:41) to chat about the President of the Vancouver Canucks, Jim Rutherford, declaring the organisation needs to focus on getting younger, Kiefer Sherwood's trade market, why the Canucks' future hinges on Quinn Hughes, and if Adam Foote will continue to lead the bench. Then, Pro Hockey Group and Sportsnet's Jason Bukala stops by (31:55) to discuss the 2025 CHL USA Prospects Challenge, why Gavin McKenna might not be the clear number one prospect, how high an NHL franchise can draft to get a difference maker for 2026 and whether a top-3 pick could sway the Canucks' decision on Hughes. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, we go national on the real Kipper and Bourne show. We are live on SportsSet, SportsSat 650 in Vancouver. Sportsnet 960 in Calgary and streaming, always on Sportsnet Plus. Also available on Spotify, Apple, podcast, and YouTube at your convenience. This hour of Real Kipper and Bourne brought to by Bet365. Nick Kippreels, Justin Bourne. Sammy McKee in a few minutes. We'll welcome in Rick Dollywall, co-host of Donnie and Dolly, the team on Czech television in Vancouver.

Plenty news coming out of Vancouver. Today I launched my trade deadline board, something that we did last year. We're going to take another crack at it. It might be a little tougher with the rate. is so close out of the quarter pole mark but Vancouver apparently

is not being shy about this as Jimmy Rutherford's gone on record on getting younger yeah it sounds like they I mean Vancouver fans have heard it all today but sounds like Rutherford and Vancouver went out there and

sent a bulletin out to all the other teams and something someone believes in the American Thanksgiving benchmark or barometer. Yeah, so okay, we're not very good. Who wants some of our older players? That's interesting to me. So like it would just be like an email.

Email blast of 30 on other GMs. The NHL. Black Friday sale. You're like, hey guys, we're open, send stuff in. Yeah, say we're trying to get a little bit younger. Names that come to mind. You know, obviously Everett's going to talk about Quinn Hughes, but Keith or Sherwood, I think, is on your board.

Yeah, he is. Guys lead the NHL and hits and on pace of 30 goals. I think would be the most attractive of them all right now in terms of, you know, we can talk about Petey and we will. Petey again. Yeah. Oh, yeah. What?

And Connor Garland, who hasn't even started his new extension? Yeah. He's playing 20 minutes a night this year. It's a good player. Good player. You know, it's funny because, you know, Vancouver's always been a tricky market. know that, but easy for them

to come out and just blast it, well Calgary won't do it still. They looked like making the mature decision here. Let's get some answers. All right. Rick, how are you, pal? Welcome aboard. How you doing guys? How you doing? Buddy, with the Canucks off to a slow starter, are we

safe to say that you are the biggest star right now out of Vancouver? I'll tell you one thing, Kipper. Last night, I'm enjoying a nice glass of red wine. I'm watching date lines and all hell breaks loose. Thanks to Elliot Friedman. I called up Freeman last night.

I tore a script out of him. I wanted a nice quiet evening. So, Rick, this was, this had to have been the game plan right out of training camp, that we are going to go to American Thanksgiving. We don't like what we see. We're punting. Well, is that? They sent down a memo last night of guys, 31 teams.

And I don't think they said the UFA players were available. I think they said veterans are available. But the guys that are available, guys, Sherwood, Cain, Bluger, and Forber. I was told this morning, now obviously they want to get younger, Kipper. I was told this morning that, look, they got to get younger. They're too old right now. Rutherford this morning said, you can call it a rebuild if you want to retool, rebuild on the refliflat.

call it whatever you want. The bottom line is there 30th in the National Hockey League standings and dead last in the NHL and goals against, dead last in PKK, injuries galore. I'll give them that. There's been a lot of injuries. But something hadn't changed. They lost six of their past seven. And, you know, the one player I've heard Kipper this morning

that's getting the most traction out of Vancouver at Sherwood, He's a UFA, leads the Kinnocks with 12 goals, second in the NHL and hits. He's a UFA. There's been no contract talks. There's been no offers. That guy's going to cost you. I think that number starts with a five. Yeah.

And I don't think the Kinnock's want to go there. I do want to mention this. Connor Garland's name has popped up. But I want to say I'm not 100% sure the Kinnock want to move him. He's great for the culture, works his ass off. They could trade him. but I'm not 100% told they're going to do that.

I think in a perfect world they want to keep Connor but this is going to be moving targets for the next two, three, four, five, six, seven week in Vancouver. Just moving targets. I think that's the best way

to describe it. Okay, let me, let's stay on Keith or Sherwood for a second here because I've got him highlighted on my trade board today on sportsnet. And no question.

Coming out party last year, and it's followed up with a terrific start. The ask out of the Vancouver Canucks, I think, was $30 million to your point, $5 million times six years. Vancouver cannot go down that path, correct? Yes, do it. Okay. Kipper, let me get this in because he plays for the major lease.

The Canucks were scared of another Dakota Jocsma situation. And Dakota Jocsua wanted to triple his salary in Vancouver. already did it. And I started their first offer at 2.5, I think, and ended up 3-2. That was not a great contract. Like, it didn't go smooth. And they're kind of worried about another, another Dakota Joshma contract. And so when you're going to give a guy triple double, triple his salary, there's concern there.

And that's nothing to take away from Sherwood Kipper because he's been great. like he scores goals on breakaways he scores goals with nice hands he goes to dirty area scores dirty goals the guy's been great right but i think he has outpriced himself in vancouver bottom line j jb i'll get you in here for a second what is his value do you trade him as a top six guy like how do how do teams perceive him proceed to to trade for him as a top six guy or a bottom six guy he could end up scoring 25 30 goals this year That's it. So what do you do? He leads the team with 12 goals. He was third in the NHL and goals last week. The guy is scoring at a really good clip. He's a good team player. Vancouver's number one draft pick. Braden Coot said one of the guys that took him aside a training camp that really taught him the ropes with Sherwood. He's a great character guy. There's a lot to like here, Kipper, and born with Sherwood. He has put himself and his agent in a real good spot. You know, but that's a good question.

Is he top six on a playoff team or is he bottom six on a playoff team? That's a great question. And I would love to see what other teams perceive him to be. So what do you think the Canucks plan is in terms of, all right, they got all these guys to trade. They could turn them into draft picks. But then they also have some pretty good core players right now. Would the plan be to flip them in some sort of like turnaround and try to get different for next year? or would it be a strip it down?

Like, what is the plan greater than just get younger? Well, you got a president here that's not a young guy. He doesn't want to stick around for a rebuild. You got a franchise defenseman, the best defenseman in the history of the Conachshund. And you've got to keep him happy. They're kind of stuck right now. If you go to the rebuild, you can drive Quintuio to the airport the next day, right?

Now, they're going to trade these guys and get young players. They're not going to get better. When you trade veteran players for young players, you don't get better. You get worse. So how's Quinn Hughes going to take that? The whole thing this year, for me, is win for Quinn, appeased Quinn. Look, if this guy's walked, then we've never had a defenseman like this in the history of the franchise. You finally got one, and he might walk.

He might walk. Like, I don't know. Like, they got to get to Quinn in December, I think. And they got to sit him down and say, hey, look, bud, what are you thinking on your future? They got to get to him and his agent Paterson. And they got to, like, Quinn Hughes is the number one story in this town. And how do you keep him? It's got to be something that keeps this team awake, management, and the ownership,

up every night. You, for the first, it took 50 years to get Quinn Hughes in this market. and you're going to let him walk after six, seven years. You know, in a perfect world, he comes back, but he wants to win. But why would he come back? Just based on this whole thing about everybody available in getting younger, there is no possible way. It makes sense that he finds a way to stay here long term.

Kipper, nobody thinks he's coming back. That's when you talk to hockey people. Then you're going to move him now or this summer? Yeah. I think the preference is this deadline, Kipper. Look, he's a great kid, but he wants to win. Elite kids want to win. They hate to lose, right?

He's tired. He's tired of losing the drabman in the city. He's tired of four coaches in five years. He's tired of all that stuff. It's time, you know, the organization, the stroke. But they're in 30th place. Like how do you go from 30 to 15 overnight? You can't.

And now they've got to go to California without Lankin and DeFCO. there are two American Hockey League goalies in California this week. Like, it's, I don't know, like, I think they, the biggest thing is how do you keep Quinn Hughes. I don't know how you do it. If the kid stays, he stays. But like you said, Kipper, they're in 30th place. I don't think that he's doing cartwheels about that.

Well, Sammy feels a lot better about the Leafs after listening to you. Sammy Quinn Hughes ain't coming to the Leafs. I want to say one more thing. You might hear Tyler Myers' name when you talk about veterans, but I want to get this in because I think this is important. The Canucks may or may not try and move Myers, but I find it hard to believe that Myers and his agent, J.P. Barry, will say yes to its trade.

He's got a no move. Myers took less money on his last deal to have the comfort of having a no move for his family. He's got a family in Colonna. He's got a house in Colonna, loves Vancouver. He told that J.P. Barry last contract. get the deal done in Vancouver. He loves playing here, but players are taking less on contracts to get the no move, right? So look, J.T. Miller had a no move, but it got so bad that he said, hey, I'm out of here.

But that's when a player gets to no move and takes less money, he doesn't want to move. He wants to stay. He's got a young family, the whole nine yards, but it's going to, they've got a ton of guys with no moves, but it's going to be interesting. who do they go after for no moves I mean looking at the way this is all set up here if Quinn Hughes is in fact

someone they move at the deadline you know they they kept Pedersen after the whole Miller fiasco last year he's 27 with some years left on his deal could they move both those guys in the same year I'm not hearing they want to move

Pedersen I'm not here they want to move better I'm not hearing that if they have to go into a rebuild Those are probably, they're pretty happy with Pedersen the last few weeks because he's turned it on. And I don't, and Brock just signed for seven. I'm not hearing that Bessor and Pedersen are two guys they want to move. Now, you can't strip it down and have an American hockey league team either guys. Hey, by the way, their American hockey league team in Abbensburg has lost 15 to 16 and they're 30th, the 31st in the American hockey league.

That's been how, that's kind of the season the Canucks have had. They're in 30th, and their farm teams in 31st, injuries to play a role. You got a new coach, you got a new system, you got all that. But it's been a tough goal this year. But I think what they did last night was they said, we got to get younger. We're going to move out some UFAs, and we're going to do a little bit of it that way and go from there and see what happens. Demko's going to travel with the team, but not expected to play?

I think he's going to join the team, Kipper, at some point on the trip. I don't see him playing on the trip. Two weeks ago today, he got hurt against Winnipegates a groin, right? Groins are usually, and you would know this, both of you would know, groinings, you know, for goaltenders might be a week or two more than, you know, a defense rear forward. And he's a big guy, but, you know, if it's three or four weeks, you've got to be paid. Hey, look, when it comes to Dempco's injuries, I don't care how long of his.

Take your time. Don't rush the guy. Don't rush the guy. Because he's got a new contract kicking in next year, guys, that is going to be for over $8 million a year. The guy needs to stay healthy. You know, the Americans are watching, right? You know, for Dempco, you know, Hellebuck, Ottinger,

you know, Decord in Seattle's been great. The Americans are loaded in gold. But before he got hurt, I heard that Depco was 100% in the mix to make that U.S. last day team and now we'll see what happens when he gets back from his injury you're watching and listening to rick dolly wall co-host of donnie and dolly the team on check television in vancouver so as far as dempco's future the short-term deal does that change anything about about possibly exploring whether or not you know he's the goalie of the future or

seeing what kind of values out there for him hey the kind of Canucks goalie of the future is in your backyard. Medvedev with the London Knights. That kid's going to be good. That was a great draft pick by the Canucks. Okay, so here's the goaltending. Demko's not going anywhere. What team right now Kipper has taken him with the injury history?

And Lankan has got a no move for two years, right? Lankan is not going anywhere for two years. They're basically, Dempco and Lankan. You're hoping the kid in London comes in probably he's going to have to go to the American League, but they're really high on him. He's a really good goaltender. But he's the goalie of the future. But Kipper, what team in the NFL right now is saying we'll take...

Edmonton, Edmonton, desperate enough? Yeah, well, yeah, that's a great point. That's great. But do the Connox want to trade him in the division? Good question. Space is an issue there. Yeah, yeah, you're right.

You're right. That's a tough one to pull off. Hey, I'll tell you another one. The orders were in on sea loss in the summer, and the Canucks told Edmonton that he's going to the east and no thank you. We're not putting him in the division, right?

So Edmonton was in on Ceylobs and the Canucks said no, right? You don't want to trade a gold tenor who might become a number one guy in your division. He'll haunt you forever. Yeah, that's reasonable. Wanted to get your thoughts on Evander Cain and what you're hearing around him.

Maybe he hasn't produced to the level that people thought, but I see he's playing 18 minutes a night. Where are the Canucks and what they've got out of canes so far. He's playing 18 minutes tonight on the 30th place team board. Oh, that's not good. Yeah, you know, but he takes a lot of penalties. He drives the fan base here nuts with the penalties.

And it took him 18, 19 games to get a goal. Look, he's going to be moved here. He's one of the guys that when they Canucks sent out the memo last night. He's one of the guys that's going to get moved. There's no question. Look, he was a stop, one-year stop gap. They didn't have anybody on the wings in the time. six they took a chance and look he's getting up there in age i think he's got six goals in his last

40 50 games right he's getting he's not a young buck anymore right he's getting up there in age the body and he went look what he went through last year in emminton guys he didn't even play in the regular season right so you know the body he's played a ton of edmonton playoff games you know the body takes a beaten year after year of all those long playoff runs but i think you're going to see him moved here, guys. I think Keynes is going to be a guy. They got a kid named La Caira Mackey here. He's in Abbottesburg, first round pick.

They've got to find room for him, right? Yeah, they've got to find room for him. So I just don't see a long-term play for Kane in Vancouver at all. Rick, what is all this news in the last 24-48 hours about a change of direction do in that Vancouver market? Because there weren't a lot of people optimistic that they can hang in there. and push for a playoff spot. And we're watching Calgary Flames organization

that's scared to say, like, let's go. We're building for the future. We've got to get younger. They won't do that. How is it Vancouver's able to do it so freely? I'll tell you something right now, Kipper. People in this town are begging for a rebuild. Begging.

You know what? John Tortorella told them. He said it's stale. Rebuild. Mike Gillis. told them rebuild. And Ryan Kessner said, I'm out of here. Rebuild. And then Trevor Lyndon said rebuild in 2017. But the owner believed in Jim Benning, who said, I'll fix it in two years. And he said, no, I'm not going to rebuild. We have an owner here that doesn't want

to rebuild. You got a president here that's too old to do a rebuild. You have a star defenseman here who, if you announce you're going to do a rebuild, is gone the same day, driving with the airport. yeah yeah okay so it's uh yeah tracking in a certain direction can i follow up one more yes okay so where does that leave jimmy rutherford and patrick alveen rick in terms of hey yeah i got all the trust in the world for you guys to do this and we're all in on you is that the case or are people questioning whether or not these guys still have what it takes to fix this?

They're getting heat in the market. You should come see our test line, Kippur. Oh, don't laugh. See our text line, fire Rutherford, fire LB, but fire the owner. Okay, so it's standard. You know, they're getting heat. They're getting heat.

It's been their fourth year here, guys. We've had one playoff, one playoff, right? and this year they're 30th. I don't see the playoffs unless you guys do. You know, that's going to be four out of the last five years is going to be no playoffs for Rutherford and LVine. That's not good.

It's not good. They're getting a lot of heat in the market. They're getting a lot of heat in the market. There's no, there's no denying it. No denying you, Kipper and Bourne. Look, this is Canada. This is in Carolina or Columbus. This is an intelligent hockey fan base in Vancouver.

Yeah, we got a lot of nut bars on Kinnock's Twitter. But you know what? It's their fan base, the cares, and they know their hockey, and they want people held accountable for what looks like another tough year. So is it unfair to be critical of Adam Foote if we believe that the GM and the president

have left him with nothing to work with? Oh, no. Adam Foote, come on, guys. First year, we're a few months into this. look at his salary and look at what they offered talking what do they offer talking five times five foot got one five i mean you know there's a reason he's there right i mean give him time one thing i like about a foot um he doesn't throw his players under the bus like the young kids he got in a little trouble yesterday defending the young kids he doesn't throw his guys under the bus he doesn't do

any of that stuff. He has not had a complete roster all season long. Boglander got hurt in training camp. He's had one night he had nine guys out. He's had seven guys from Abbott's lineup. Both of you go behind the bench and tell me if you can do better.

I think you might be the perfect guy to have under this scenario with all his experience. He's lived through everything. Yeah, that's it. That's it. And you know what? The poor guy had nine guys missing one night.

You know, Abbisford, he has six, seven guys from Apple. No American hockey league team should have six or seven of the guys in the NHL roster. There's no way. No. No, that's great. No way. It's too much. Wow. Lots going on there. Dolly, you sound like you're

busy. I was like a tsunami of information out of Vancouver. Rick, thanks for doing this, pal. Hey, keep an eye on my boy, Chris Tanna. He's my guy. I love him. Yeah. His dad's enough, but keep an eye on Chris. He's a good guy.

We know. Okay. We know. Sounds good. Thank you. All right, Rick. All right, guys. Rick Dollywall.

That's good stuff. Yeah. I love that guy, man. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So he's basically saying that people are screaming for this, right? Yeah. But you can't, you can't scream for this and keep Quinn Hughes.

I'm sorry. No. It's one or the other. no and that's really it's sad you know like he said that they haven't had a defenseman like this in 50 years or whatever I don't know that there's been a defenseman like that in Canada over that time we we did the before the show we were talking about he's off the charts we were saying he might be if he's he the fifth best player in the NHL like mac david McKinnon mccarr it's really hard title name a better player than queen he was really hard to go past the first four in Colorado and edmonton and not pick Quinn Hughes. So I'm looking at this and I'm going,

okay, the NBA makes these trades where didn't someone the Clippers trade like five for Oklahoma City traded five first rounders at some point? There's been a lot of them, but the Oklahoma City got Shay. They got Shay and they got a bunch of stuff when they got, when Kauai went to the Clippers and Paul George went to the Clippers, they got a bunch of different stuff.

My point is if you go to trade Quinn Hughes right now, what team in the league wouldn't give up two first rounders plus for Quinn Hughes. That's not the challenge. The challenge is, does he want to go stay? And does he want to stay and sign an eight-year deal? But does he have, does he have no, does he have trade protection on his? So that's the thing.

But it's irrelevant. Is it? Well, sure. Like, I'm not giving up two first picks and a blue chip prospect to watch him walk out the door in a year. You'd have to do the Carolina Ranton thing where you trade for him, try to make it work. and if he doesn't want to be there, then you've still got Quinn Hughes as an asset to trade. Oh, buddy, that's nothing but a disaster waiting for you.

It could be, or you could sign Quinn Hughes. Just, like you said, just go and study that blueprint of Carolina to trade for a guy and then ask him later. It's like Carolina made a horrific mistake without signing off from the agent and the player. Listen, we want you to stay. we're not doing this so you can walk out the door, so let us know now.

And they did it anyway. Yes. They did, you know, and I don't think right now they hate how that turned out for them. They got Stankhoven, two first rounders, a third rounder, like, that's better than what NACIS was for them. So I don't know that they hate how it turned out. But they got to win now, too, eh?

They got to win now. That's not those two first rounders are doing nothing for them to win the Stanley Cup in the next two years. assets they can train you're right it depends what they turn those into but this is the point with with hughes is that there could be more than new jersey sitting out there going all right maybe we can talk this guy into it new jersey has all three of their first round picks coming up by the way now don't just think about new jersey's situation and all their second and i've i've got two of your brothers and i know you want to come here

I ain't overspending Because you're just going to sign there anyway But the Canucks Can I wait or Yeah You know I'd like to get you I'll give you a fair deal But I'm not blowing my brains out

To get you now Well and I think there's That probably creates a problem Where it's like If you bring Quinn Hughes in You don't want to have to give up all these assets Because you want to win when he's there So can you just wait the year and a half from now

When he's a UFA But he'll get traded somewhere else before that. How many first rounders does New Jersey have? All of all. I'd like three of them. Sure. Right?

And I would give those for Quinn Hughes. If he's going to sign for eight years. But I think that's the tough thing you're talking about where if you're Quinn Hughes, go to a team that has no first rounders. That doesn't help us win a cup. But, I mean, but you would, if you're in New Jersey, give up all three of them. Yeah, I think you'd be crazy not to.

If he's willing to sign. That could be the Stanley Cup right there. Can I do two in some. prospects and something else. Three first round picks. Take it or leave it. I'm giving it all day long. Me too.

All day long. I'm knowing he's going to resign. I think you do. Oh, yeah. If I can get him down for eight years, I'll give you four. I don't think you can do that. I don't think that's allowed. I think you can only do three in advance.

If you have... Are you serious? Yeah. Not a stupid... Well, they're labeled three in advance. No, I think you can only do that. I don't know. I mean, the NBA, 232 first round picks are getting traded.

The other thing is that what's a first rounder of New Jersey's, once they have Quinn Hughes. They're already a top team in the league. Like we're looking at 27th, 8th, 9th picks. 26, 27, to 28. I would definitely do all three. I would do all three all day long. I would be crazy not I do.

He's unbelievable. But if you're Canucks fans, three first sounds good. Three picks in the near 30th doesn't sound great. Mid. You know, like, I don't know if that's going to do it for me. Yeah. Can I get some team that has picks higher up the board? Then throw in a couple second rounders to make you feel better.

Can I call, you know, who's in the tri-state area around there that could use him? Does the Rangers, they're worse? Who's worse that is around there? Philly. We could call the Islanders. Well, that's kind of what I'm, things the Islanders. Yeah, they might have like the 15, 16th pick. Yeah.

Because maybe he'll settle for being around his brothers, if not on the team. Game time? Game time. It's game time. It's game time. Resid by Bet 365, visit the athlete of sods and see. why it's ever ordinary at Bed 365 Miss 15 plus Ontario only

Please play responsibly One game tonight boys One Which will feature our Justin Bourne On fabulous I will tell you everything you need to know So it is The Dallas Stars are in Edmonton

Edmonton. Edmonton returns home from their long Eastern road trip I was trying to see here The As you would imagine The Oilers are faves in this game minus $135 in the money line.

I was going to see saves. Stu Skinner has historically been very good against the Dallas Stars. He has actually owned them pretty hard in playoff series where he's been much better than Jake Ottinger. I'm taking a little shot tonight. Give me 25 plus saves for Stu Skinner at plus 165 tonight.

That saves? He can give up five goals. 25 saves. 25 plus saves. And if you want to get even more aggressive, you can go 30 plus saves at plus 575. Tough to be a goalie for Edmonton. Slot shots allowed.

They're 27th. Stu Skinner has been really good against the, against the stars in his past. So that's what I'm taking tonight for a little game time bet. I pretty much came out of the gate on my trade board with Bennington. I saw that. The Oilers. And Skinner would have to go the other way.

I actually think Skinner's a nice goalie to trade for. He's a ton of experience. He's not that old. He's pretty cheap. He's a really good kind of grade A backup. Yeah, you don't want him to be your starting goalie on a cup contending team. Him and Stolars to me are the highest and one Bish. I think that's totally bang on.

Skinner from Stollars. Anyways, that was game time presented by Bet365. Visit the athlete's odds. C-wise, ever ordinary, I bet three, six, five. Plus, Ontario only, please play it responsibly. Bookes on the other side of break. Okay. Jason Bukla, pro hockey, sports net,

taking in the CHL prospects, right? Yeah, it's CHL versus the USHL. They play against each other now. And he's there for that, but there's lots of top prospects. Let's Canadian teams kind of suck. So, good time to kind of start talking about this. We'll talk about Canadian standings before we get to him, maybe. Yeah.

We'll ask him your idea. about the Leafs tanking to get... Yeah. Keep their fifth pick. Not tanking. Soft resetting and hoping the lottery balls turn out correctly. All right. Expert analysis.

Jason Bucola next. When we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. Dive deep into Toronto Sports and the NFL. The J.D. Bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. As a reminder, this hour of Real Kipperman Bourne brought to by Bet365. Nick Kipriels, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee.

A reminder, Leaf alumni, this Friday. I am playing in the Shorzie Fall Classic. Wow. At Scotiabank Arena, where the cast, many of them, good hockey players, the Nolan brothers, will play your Toronto Maple Leafs alumni. I will say one of my favorite things about Shore's. And there's a lot of things that I love about Shorsi. But the actual gameplay is the best any hockey.

That's pretty cool. Like, it's like they're all real hockey players. So they skate and they shoot and they look like real hockey guys. I love it. Yeah. You guys are going to get. I'm cooked. You guys are going to get rinsed.

I'm cooked. I'm cooked. Hey. Yeah. You know, I love Rick on the show. Yeah. Yeah. Get him a camera stand.

Okay. Please get them a camera stand. I don't know whether to ask him about Quinn Hughes or tell him to get cover because there's an earthquake going on, okay? Please. Hey, he's kind enough to put in the time and hold the phone the whole time. He's a worker. I'll see what we can do for next time we have the dolly wall on.

All right. Because he's an electric factory. All right. To a pure profession on camera, Jason Bucola. There we go. Look at this guy. Look, steady. Look how steady that is. This is a steady as it gets.

from the hotel room in Calgary, truth be known to nobody who's listening or watching because I'm on right now. But it's on the ironing board here, Kipper. So, I mean, that's high tech here at the suite. There's a couple of creases in your jacket there. Maybe you have to go back to the board. It's actually burning a hole in the back of my iPad right now, the iron.

So we'll get there. So what is going on? We find you in Calgary, correct, for the CHL USA Prospects Challenge? Yes, yes. Sammy and I are out here. We had a great day yesterday interviewing a lot of the top prospects. And to no surprise, just like the last couple of draft cycles, the kids coming through are really mature, really, really dialed in. And it's refreshing because, as you guys know, a lot of these guys have never been in job interviews before or gotten in front of a lot of media before. And they're a little nervous, right?

They're a little worked up. and every one of them were just right naturals. Like they weren't, they weren't school. They just were themselves. They didn't pretend to be anything they weren't. And I'm looking forward to the game tonight in Calgary. And then we're heading over to Lethbridge tomorrow. So fingers crossed, the weather's good.

And we have two great games. And this is just completely covered from head to toe by every NHL team. Like this is a major, major event for them to really start assessing which direction they want to go. Absolutely. And I think that this year, as everybody's aware, and I'm sure you guys have talked about it a lot today on the show. And we're going to continue to talk a lot about it. There's just so much momentum now in the Canadian markets.

And for myself and Sammy, specifically keeping a close eye on these kids, it matters a lot more to the Canadian team, fan base, if you will, given the state of where hockey is in Canada for the first 25% of this season. So everybody's here. Jim Nell was Dallas's thing. in our hotel, Sammy and I wrote for a nice Italian dinner last night. And Craig Conroy was in the same restaurant. So we had nice discussion with them.

Obviously, it's a home game for him. But, you know, all 32 teams are here. Most of them are at the practice this morning. And it's full of a lot of black tarps, a lot of Scout Cedos for sure. It's crazy that, you know, last year, five Canadian teams made playoffs. The Sixth, you know, the flames had 96 points and didn't get in. This year, I mean, it could be two, you know. And, you know, that may be generous to say.

So concerning times for sure. Why don't you give us a bit of a sense of the draft board? So movement at the very top right now. Sounds like McKenna not so much the sure lock he once was. Yeah, that's a fact. My draft ranking will come out after these two games. My first draft ranking to the year, Sandy's had a couple already.

Keaton Verhoff is taking over the number one slot for me, guys. And the big right shot, six foot, four, two hundred and twelve pound right shot, defenseman for North Dakota, 17 years old. Borna, you play college hockey. That's a heavy lift, right, at that age for a young defenseman. There's no easy shifts for guys like that, whether you're defending against skilled guys or you're defending against a horse in the four hole who weighs 210 pounds and he's 24 years

old. And he's been really good at NoDak. He's the number one guy on my list, like I mentioned, and complete player, different than Matthew Schaeper. But for me personally, when we drafted Aaron Eckblad back in the day for the floor, of Banthers. Keaton Verhoff has got more upside than Eck did in all the

categories. I think Eck had more offensive upside and he's been kind of in and out with that throughout his career and had to learn to be a better defender as a pro and he's obviously done that. But Keaton Verhoff right out of the box, he skates, he's ranger, he's big, he competes the full length, he can love the puck on his own, join

as an extra layer, all the sexy things, all the attributes that I would say, you know, I'm giving you reason why he's number one. McKenna, it's not that McKenna so much doesn't deserve to be number one. Do you want to go 1A, 1B? It's just that instead of, one thing that's bothering me right now when I hear people talk about McKenna being a number two, they're discounting Verhoff's play a little bit.

Instead of saying, well, how great the one guy is, it's like, well, this guy's falling to number two. Well, listen, being ranked second overall in the draft cycle at this time of year is still a feathered your cap. He's got a lot of runway. He still could end up being number one. He's dynamic offensively, but there's a lot of competition. Overseas, Denver, but he's playing in the SHS in Sweden. I think that he's going to challenge even to go as high as two. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody has won on their list. You're going to get into a lot of defensemen and a lot of big forwards. I know that it's kind of curious. The game is changing a little bit right now. There's a lot of size coming back into the league. And Ryan Rubbrook from the Niagara Ice

dogs at 6.4, 215 pounds. And Ethan Belchez, the center from the Windsor Spitfires, is 6.5. and a half, 228, fellas. So, yeah, big, big bodies. There's lots to like. There's lots to go around.

You're watching and listening to Jason Bucula Pro Hockey Group, Sportsnet, Puckpedia, and former NHL scouting director. So I want to go back to Gavin McKenna for second here. Was a contributing factor of him losing a number one status

contributed to him leaving junior hockey early to go play college in the U.S. Well, first of all, there's definitely a wave of intrigue. It's like a case study this year. I guess it's the best way I can put it to you guys with these junior guys that are coming down here. And vice versa, by the way, there's some American kids that are coming north of the border.

But that had nothing. to do with me slotting him in number two what at this time of year let's say he played a medicine high right now and I'm up here watching him play for willie de jordan and the Madison High Tigers and he's running all over the ice sheet and he's putting up an excessive amount of points again and you're really intrigued by his offensive upside the thing of a kipper as you know is that you better have a bee game as you quickly start to approach the pro so celebrini for example when he graduated out of college hockey you knew he was going to track up and down the ice. You knew he was going to be better than average with his compete level off the

fuck defensively. So that is what I was starting to mind down on or would have been anyways with McKenna. And the fact of the matter is he would have been under the microscope that way. And that part of his game is what's kind of slotted him for me where he is right now. He's not as complete. He's not as engaged in all facets of the game. And don't get me wrong. I don't need him to run over people. I just need him to be average plus, average on the defensive side, be engaged, active stick kill plays whatever I need him to do that and he hasn't done enough for that so far

so when you look around the draft I don't know if you guys if you do any sort of like tiering just in terms of you know where you need to get to to get a good player looking at these Canadian teams who could be picking reasonably high how high can you pick

and still get a difference maker roughly in your estimation right now 10 12 high yeah I at least 12 at least 12 from you. So what you're describing is I just call it a line in the sand. That's what we used to describe it as in Florida. And what it is is it's your cutoff point where you are saying to yourself,

am I drafting in this slot, am I trading back, or am I trading up, depending on how much draft capital you have because of the fact that obviously the value of the player or it's not that the value of the player falls up between 12 and 20, but they might all look the same and they might all, you know, the projection might look the same. So you start to strategize that way. There's some great players that are going to. going to be i think all the way maybe down to the lottery now that i sit here i'm just doing this off

top of my head but chase reed sue saint marie greyhounds i think he's going to challenge to be a top four pick probably uh carson carols from from out here in the western hockey league is a farm boy like brady martin zavier villendov from the blainville uh wasbrand armada uh easy for me to say in the quebec league is that absolute dynamo he's a lane hudson like i see in a lot of draft rocks Well, actually, I think Sammy had him 17th on his list. He's like right in around 12 or 13 or 14 right now for me. Imagine you're going to get maybe Elaine Hudson light type of player in that range of this draft last. That's how deep it goes.

So I'm suggesting to you that there's great value and great opportunity, especially for a team. Look at Calgary. They've already got multiple firsts and who knows what they're going to do going forward here with the roster. Or if you look at the Vancouver Canucks or, you know, even the Toronto Maple Leafs who don't have any draft capital. but I don't know what's going to go on there. And if they aren't going to be a team, I'd like to see them, and I don't want this to become a trauma- Mapley thing.

But listen, guys, the covers are bare. There's nothing there. So if you're not, if you are what you are, as sooner or later you start to trade out hopefully an asset or two, even it's a high-end asset to get some really high-end draft capital back, it has to enter into conversation to be part of the strategy, and there's lots to go around in this draft class. We just had Rick Dalual on,

and we were discussing Vancouver. Would this draft, would a top three pick for sure, maybe ease the decision on whether to get trade Quinn Hughes quicker than not? Well, I think that there's a lot that we'll go into that basket for that decision making. It will ease the pain. It won't ease the pain right out of the gate next year, but it'll ease the pain long term for sure. And Quinn Hughes is obviously a special talent. We all know that. Norris trophy type candidate, probably for his.

entire career but what's going on in Vancouver for me personally and you guys would likely agree and I'm sure Rick does as well as and they put it out there anyways they're looking to I guess reset which is kind of curious get younger so okay get younger and so if we just take that uh if you're putting it on me you're my GM kipper how can we get younger how can we still have a really strong trajectory absolutely top three picks in this draft are going to stabilize the top of your tier in a category whether that be Beirhoff like I said he won't be like Quinn Hughes he'll be different but he'll get big strong 6.4 guy

but even a guy like McKenner or the Stenberg kid who's a play driver he's he's in the top four of historical SHL scoring points per game average and he's the names that are surrounding them Peter Forsberg the Siddines

I mean this kid is a hell of a player so I don't know that they would want to go back to the suite necessarily depending on what happens with Federson I'm spitball here. I'm just strategizing in my mind, but yeah, no, they could reset things for sure. Not a terrible year then for a team like the Calgary Flames

to say, we're going to do this. We're actually going to go ahead and make some moves. Yeah, yeah, and are they? I guess is the question, isn't it for me? It's an uncomfortable. You know, I walk in that circle that I'm a scout so when I see Connie at the restaurant and we're chewing the fat or if I see some of these guys, I don't really get into any of the noise,

if you will. I do enjoy talking strategy and players and they know and he knows because he likes to scout by the way Craig Conroy he was on the tour two weeks ago at Clarkson watching Bearhoff live you know when NoDap was in there

so he gets out and he scouts and I think that's a great thing I had that experience with Dale Tallon in the past and when you have as many high end fixes they're potentially going to have they already have a full slate and they're obviously going to add potentially more to that like I'm telling you the Calgary Flames have a

unique opportunity to add three or four players from this draft class at the high end that by the time they move into that new building, they're going to be there. They're going to be arriving at the National Hockey League. And you know the way it works? Year one in a new building, it's a shiny new toy. Everybody's coming anyways, right? But in year two, they don't want to just come to see the shiny new toy. They want the product to be really good.

And so I believe that they could actually assemble that type of group going into year two, let's say, in the new building that is really, really dynamic. awesome stuff pal really appreciate your time and your insight enjoy the game okay yeah thanks for having me on guys i'll talk to you sooner right thanks for your time books appreciate it jason boogala does a awesome job for us on the real kipper and bourn show and throughout sports net analyzing some of these great young kids i they're off i am guessing but i'm guessing you don't think that going to college is a good idea for a kid trying to get No, well, he's young.

He was really young, right? 17 in college was crazy. But you're up against men, some of them 22, 23. Even a junior, like the majority of the guys are 19. But, you know, I think the idea is that should help you get better, right? You're playing against better competition. Physically, though, it's a challenge, right? And you can't speed that up if you're getting rattled a little bit.

Yeah, and I think it does depend on what your strengths are, right? Like that guy, you know, McKenna doesn't, I know, Listen, I've seen the kid play a handful of hockey games or whatever, but it doesn't sound like is it a big physical force. So I want to get to this before we leave, and I'll spin it back to you, Sammy, a little bit on the Toronto Maple Leafs. Like, there's a part of you that want the Leafs to tank, right, to lock in a top five pick this year.

Big part of me, yeah. Big part. Yeah. Okay. So for that to happen, they'd have to watch how many, how many teams how many teams will be underneath them

from one to four for you you know you need lottery ball luck that's what you need you need to be the sixth or seventh worst team in the league and hope the god that you get a bounce that's what it's going to be because you're not going to be worse than Calgary you're not going to be worse in San Jose

but I'm not San Jose so you don't see them legitimately holding one of the top five worst seasons to get that pick long. I mean, if they committed to it, you can do it pretty easy, right? I don't think it'll be that easy.

Shut down, Matthews for his health. So who's, if we were to just forecast here, what is the order for you by the end of the year? Nashville last. Nashville last. Calgary second last. Second. St. Louis?

I think St. Louis is better than Vancouver. Okay. So Vancouver is the third worst. Third last. I think Sabres will make their way down there. They'll make their way down there. They always do. So the Leafs have to win the lottery to get into a top five.

Basically, you're going to be the sixth or seventh worst team in the league and hope like hell you get into the top five. That's what it's going to be. I mean, if you're going to tank, you can't be there. If you're going to seven, man, you've got to go four. Yes. Totally. You got to shut Matthews down.

You got to shut Tanaf down. You got to shut your goalies down. Don't do that quite yet because we still have to do a show. I loved his angle on Calgary, though. He's so right. like watch what these kids can do in year two and three oh yeah and you're like oh boy that gives Calgary flames should be so excited for that first

second year in the new building oh it's so fun new building the kids are coming like you're you're doing this whole thing but if it's like we extended Rasmus Anderson yeah you got to pay you got a 38 year old Nazim Cadry yeah and it's like oh man just do the thing no kids you know that's the difference just do the thing I mean, I'm sure that Conroy's had the meetings with Marie Edwards, but he needs to sit down again and be like, look. Conroy needs a new contract.

Have you noticed there's a lot more noise about Craig Conroy needing a new contract? Yeah, I'm hearing it on every street corner. No, I know. They're yelling for the rooftop. I don't know that was a thing. So is that why Conroy is more likely to be like, yes, sir. If we're not rebuilding, then I'm happy to not rebuild. Yeah.

whatever you want me to do I think they like them they should sign them yeah you know and have him continue marching down the path to getting Calgary back into contention

however long it may take I believe that he's a good GM and I think they'll figure it out but yeah they need they need to go the right direction so he's free to do the things I'm sure he knows they should be doing

813 and 3 6 regulation wins and 24 tries and this is after a three game winning streak that they're on right now. All right, just one game on tap, one that are Justin Bourne will cover on Sportsnet, Dallas and Edmonton.

Give us a prediction. No rant in tonight, right? Yeah. I like Edmonton's odds getting things figured out. Best home record winning percentage in the NHL. They've only played eight home games, so they're at home tonight. Oil win.

Oil win. Our thanks to Rick Dollywall and Jason Bukala. And Luke Fox. And Luke Fox. Luke, we're not your father. Hey, go home and get some rest, man. You're sneezing, your coffin. What is going on?

Brought you by Neocetrient. Listen, I'm playing hurt. I'm like the least captain. Fade away. Parting shot. Fade away jumper. Enjoy your one game tonight with my buddy, Justin, and we're back tomorrow on Real Kipper and Born.

Thank you.