Real Kyper & Bourne - Canucks' Draft Lottery Disappointment

Episode Date: May 6, 2026

Host of Canucks Central, Satiar Shah (4:36), joins Justin Bourne and Sam McKee following a disappointing result in the Draft Lottery for Vancouver. He discusses who the Canucks will be targeting at third overall, the latest on the Canucks' GM search, Pierre Dorion's candidacy, and the top priority for the incoming front-office boss, including a potential Elias Pettersson trade. Later, Justin and Sam discuss Auston Matthews' future, and they review Martin St. Louis's and Lindy Ruff's comments ahead of the Sabres' series against the Habs. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Welcome into Real Kipper and Born. I am Justin Bourne. Welcome into our national hour. Kipper is somewhere else. No, no. Not here today. Family time. Sammy McKee, filling in joining me today.

We got Jake Schultz and Derek Brandeo. We're live on Sportsnet. Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver. Sportsnet 960 and Calgary. Streaming always on Sportsnet. Plus, if you miss our show live, you can always get it on Spotify, Apple, podcast, and YouTube.

Yeah. Sammy. I mean, if you're tuning in on 6th, 50 right now in Vancouver or 960 in Calgary. I'm probably the last guy in the world you want to be hearing from. Yeah, this is not a great show for you. Listen, I want

you guys to listen to our beloved sports net radio stations every single day, but there's ever a day to not. Today might be it. I feel, I do feel for them. I like, part of me, the cold-hearted leaf fan

who just, you know, doesn't really care about anybody else, I am, you know, taking a little bit of joy in some of their downfalls. Yeah. But the other part of me is that both of them had pretty wretched seasons that probably should have been rewarded with more than the third and the sixth overall pick. I mean, going down to six for the flames is painful. Not right.

Not right. Not right. Just a reminder that this hour of Real Kippermborn is brought to you by Bet 365. Yeah, no, I watched some of the reaction videos online. and watched those fan bases. And, like, they knew early, earlier that it was going to be a bad year. Like, the Canucks were 15 points out of 305th,

for 31st place. Pretty much ever since they traded Quinn Hughes. Yeah. There wasn't, and even before that, there wasn't a good thing that happened. No. It just was all bad. And, you know, Calgary,

Calgary I probably feel just as bad for as they've got the new building coming. They have trouble getting superstars there, just, you know, all Canadian. teams. It's a little bit of a battle. it would be great to see them get someone like that. And then the Leafs. The Leafs, people are mad

because nine straight years of playoffs. You have one year where you tried to make playoffs and people took that seriously until January. Then all of a sudden they went, uh-oh, this isn't working, pulled the plug first overall. It's sickening. It is. For people to listen to. Like, they're actually not listening right now.

I truly can't imagine how mad I would be. If I was a Vancouver, because if I was a Vancouver fan, I would hate the Toronto Maple Leafs, as is what we do. As Vancouver fans, we hate the Toronto Maple Police and to have them jump up there

and steal away what was going to be your first... Particularly Gavin McKenna. And here's the thing. Like, I, you know, we just talked with Brooks in our first hour in our regional hour,

the Leaf stuff. And the way he's talking about a lot of these guys, even McKenna might be, or even if he's not there, you are going to get a fabulous hockey player. Yeah. Like, you're going to get a Stenberg.

you're going to get a Chase Reed, you're going to get a Keaton Verhof, there's Carl's from out there that everybody loves. There's lots of great players in and around the top five. Yeah. But just the person...

Carrels, carols? Carols. I'm going carols. Until someone tells me other words, I mean, get books back on. But I just, to have the perception

of losing it to the Leafs, I can't imagine it's going over well. I can't imagine it. Now, this is my obliviousness and maybe you're more online than I am. I'm extremely online. Way too much. But I have an opinion on the tendencies

of each fan base. You know, Vancouver to me is very data-centric and practical. Practical? Yeah, that's... No? We'll talk to... Okay. Sat there yet?

I'm not sure if practical is the right way to... If you're listening in Vancouver, text in what you think of Borny's estimation. What's Toronto's tendency? What's... Isn't just volume? I think... Volume idiocy with...

I think the perception. For the record, all fan bases have idiots. Oh, yeah. I don't mean that about Toronto or Vancouver, whatever, but. I think the perception of Leaf fans is volume. Volume. Just so many. And loud.

Yeah. Like physical volume and volume of their takes. Yeah. I think that they feel a lot of people just, you know, that they're the best and they have that feeling. But I think Vancouver fans, okay, perfect to God ask. Yeah. Sat, yeah, well, we're now joined by Sat Shaw, the host of Canucks Central, Canucks game host for Sportsnet.

Did you hear what he just said? He said that Canucks fans are practical? Well, I mean, it depends on what day of the week. You're asking them that question, right? Two days ago yesterday, not so much. No, no. And I got to say, I mean, it was quite the gut punch yesterday. So right now you have to give Canuck fans a little bit of grace,

a lot of hurt feelings, a lot of anger and frustration, you know. And some jealousy, to be honest. Yeah, listen, we appreciate you coming on because I understand, like, I wouldn't call myself a Leafs fan, but I cover the Leafs, and so I want them to do well. It's more fun to cover playoff games, meaningful hockey, whatever. And so I would call myself a diehard Leafs, Ann. Yeah.

But when they win the lottery, because of that, I'm happy. I'm happy. And so I'm sure everyone in that market, yourself included, experienced that a little bit. Do you take some solace in the fact that, like, it's a pretty good draft to have number three? Well, I mean, it's funny because leading into yesterday, we had talked a lot about how, hey, picking third in this year's draft is not a bad spot to be there could be a lot of changes in terms of where guys are ranked you guys have kind of gone through it as much as it seems like mckenna is going to go first there is a rational argument to be had about stenberg maybe one of the dmen so

there could be a world here where the connects get the guy they want it all along on number three and with that being a possibility it's not the worst spot to be in but part of it also is the connects are just never won the draft lottery right and i think what what people want to feel like sometimes as being a winner having that opportunity to have the first overall pick. But you guys are right. It's one of those drafts where there's a lot of variants. And I've spoken to a number of different scouts and even some directors across the National Hockey League.

And I've been stunned at how much variance I see in terms of who the top D-Man is for a lot of guys, how they view Stenberg, how they view Caleb Malhotra. And even in some ways how guys view Gavin McKenna. So it's really hard to get consensus in terms of who truly is the best D-man, who should go number two. And is McKenna even the top prospect? Depending on which team picks first overall, I knew there were a couple of teams that would not have taken McKenna.

Now, I have no idea what the least they're going to do here with Shaika and Matt Sundeen now being in charge. But it's one of those drafts where it's really difficult to get a proper consensus on who's going to go first, second, and third. What would you like to see happen with the Cana? I guess Gavin McKenna at three, but let's just assume that him and Steinberg go off at one, two. What would you like to see the Canucks do at three?

Well, I heard you guys talking about Carson Carls. quite a bit. I love Carson Carl's, man. Like that guy, I know he's a left-hand shot and the right-hand, the right-ease end up going a bit higher. They're the ones that are always harder to find. So there's always, you know, a bit of a push to take those players. But I love not only the production

from Carl's, he plays physical, he's a very direct hockey player, he has an edge to his game, great offensively on the power play, has a bomb of a shot, moves the puck incredibly efficiently as well. Maybe some of the edge work compared to a guy like Chase Street that doesn't quite compare, but the overall package, the mentality side of things, I've really fallen

in love with Carson Carl's. And I'm not saying he's necessarily in a tier above Chase Reed and even Keaton Verhoff and even Albert Smith. I've had people compare Albert Smith to Moritz cider and some wonder if he could be the first or second D man taken. So there's, again, a lot of variance in terms of how you rank these D men. So I have a real affinity for Carson Carls, but I don't think that you would be going wrong necessarily if Keaton Verhof or even Chase Reed is the guy. that goes to number three. The only question I have with Reed, and he's not too old, but he's slightly later birthday for somebody who's in his first draft eligible year, the numbers were okay, but not

eye-popping, and especially when you consider that the quality of competition in the CHL this year is not quite as high as it has been in the past because so many of the 20-year-olds are now playing in the NCAA. A lot of guys are going to the States to play in the NCAA as 18, 17-year-olds, even 19-year-olds. So I think the overall competitions come down slightly. So I do have some questions about, is Chase Reed quite as dynamic offensively as we assume he is? Because the numbers don't quite suggest it. But when you look at him from the eye test, a really exciting hockey player.

So it really is in the eye of the beholder in many ways. And personally, I have a lot of time for Carson Carl's. Yeah, I had someone write me during this conversation about how great Carl's is and why he's not getting enough love compared to Chase Reed. So that's fascinating. any chance that they would get weird with that pick and potentially trade it. You know, there's talk in Toronto. It's like, should they potentially stockpile more assets and trade back into that pile of great D? Well, I think in theory, this is the perfect draft.

If you're not sold on McKenna, it's a perfect draft to trade down from one, trade down from two. And let's say that Stenberg and McKenna go first and second overall. And I just mentioned the four D men, right? Like Reed, Carl, Karl, Verhof, and Albert Smiths. And if you have those guys in the same tier, would it not stand to reason that you would at least explore going down two or three spots and still get one of those demon and get an extra asset. Now, we love talking about those things and talk radio and it's a great fodder for conversations. It's never happened, but it ain't happened. It's not the NFL, right, boys?

It's not the NFL, you know, it's not the NFL. I mean, the last time it happened was Braden Shen. Like, I mean, sorry, Luke Shen that got traded, right? I mean, it doesn't happen very often when we're top five pickets moved around the draft. So I love talking about it, but in practicality, it's probably not going to happen. However, if there is a draft where somebody does trade down, this would be it. Yeah. What was the Sadeen ones at?

How did they get? That was. They traded into this to get two or was it to get one? How did that work again and forget? So they had the Chicago pick when I traded Brian McCabe. And they used all the, they made a number of different trades. And they did actually have the first overall pick. Yeah.

But they traded with Atlanta that was hosting the draft. They traded down from one to two so they could have the first. first pick and the Canucks pick second and third in that year's draft. But it was a lot of machinations. Brian Burke was, you know, he was really in his bag that day. He was cooking. Yeah, man. That's the good stuff.

Beed Burke back involved. So I guess, I mean, I don't know if this is called bearing the lead, but Jim Rutherford, I guess, leaving after the draft. I think Canucks fans got Pierre Dorian fired before he got hired. What's going on? I actually do want you to give us to Dorian background. What's going on with the management stuff? Yeah.

So the Dorian stuff. been fascinating. I mean, it was a real bomb that was dropped on the weekend in terms of Peer Dorian interviewing, and it became really evident when you checked in and when we heard about him interviewing in person that Peer Dorian was a legitimate candidate. Now, perhaps the suggestion of him being the leading leading candidate or front runner or being a shoe in for the job might have been slightly premature, but make no doubt about it. Initially, this was real. I mean, guys like Freedman don't report this stuff if they don't have it legitimately. And in the National Hockey League, you don't do, fly guys in and sit down with them for hours if all you're doing is exploring you know certain ideas or

whatever like it's a serious conversation being had and and apparently by all accounts peer dorian showed up prepared had great ideas and he did impress the organization i'm not going to sit here and say that kinnuk fans prevented um pure dorian for becoming the fan but i'm also not going to sit here and say that they did not prevent uh peer dorian for becoming the next gm and it's not all done yet he's still in the mix of some degree now perhaps maybe not as much as it was assumed a few days ago. But Canucks fans organized, man. Like they got on Reddit.

They were on social media. They came up with email accounts about, hey, let's all like email this account. Let's all let people know that we don't want Peer or Dorian. So I do know that they were heard. Practical fan base over. Yeah. Listen, if you guys, if any of you want to run in an election

or become a politician, you guys got to get the Canucks fans on it. They can mobilize and get things done. So I think, you know, obviously they did. push forward. And I think that I don't go to, listen, I can't sit here and say with certainty that he's not going to get the job when Kinnock fans convinced the organization, but make no doubt about it. They heard the voices that the fans were, were, you heard what the fans were saying

the last 24 hours. So if you're talking about who's the practical fans want, what's the big name? I see a lot of gold. I see a lot trickling into my Twitter from the Vancouver side of things. Yeah, I mean, Kinnock fans, what they really want is a forward thing. new thinker, somebody who, you know, can perhaps move the organization into the future. They're excited about the idea of an Evan Gold type because he checks a lot of those boxes. Forward thinker understands, you know, the draft side of things, understand analytics, the business

side. I know Elliott Friedman mentioned Martin Madden, Jr., who's somebody that I brought up a few weeks ago as somebody that the team should talk to. Now isn't reporting that he's in the mix, but he fits the exact mold of the type of person you should be talking to at the very least and exploring when you're trying to go into a rebuild, His track record speaks for itself. Great talent evaluator. Very smart businessman as well.

So I think there are a lot of factors that would want you to name someone like that GM. I don't know if one of those guys will ultimately be named the GM, but that's the type of candidate. Kinnuck fans are really excited about. And that's what they really want to see this organization go after. And if you're not hiring someone like that, part of it is a devil you know. And then I think a lot of fans here because they've seen the success that Kinnock's have had with the Abbey Kinnucks. and they won the trophy

called a cup a couple of years ago that they believed that Ryan Johnson would be a nice succession plan moving forward. Now, in terms of the overall acumen comparing Ryan Johnson to some other guys, I might lean somewhere else. But I think especially after the Doria news, fans would be delighted, delighted

if they go to Ryan Johnson as a GM. Yeah. Well, you know, the state of the Canucks organization, I think, is, I don't want to say it's curious, but, you know, Adam Foote seems like a head coach that everyone is kind of not sure about in the market and how to feel about it. Elias Pedersen is a high paid player.

People are kind of not sure about, you know, what changes get made after they make a GM hire to those sort of other parts of the team? How different did the Canucksala come September? And I think that's the big question we're all asking. And I think that's the main question here as well. If the organization really wanted to move off from Adam Foote, they would have done so already.

It doesn't mean he's going to be the guy. but generally speaking when a new manager comes in and we saw it in Toronto as well you know when Shanahan came in sometimes you just let the process play out for a while you don't pull that card right away and if you're not sold on the guy and you're looking to rebuild anyways does it hurt for you to roll the dice to start the season to see how it goes so I at this stage I'm not saying I would be surprised if Adam foot isn't back but I guess I would be somewhat surprised if the new GM comes in and says yes I'm going to move on with the head coach because why play that card right now, especially when you're coming into the process. You've got to deal with the draft,

deal with free agency. And the bigger question here is the players, and especially a guy, like you mentioned, born, Elias Pedersen. What do you do with EP40 ultimately? When's the Riley for Patterson trade happened? Yeah. I mean, I guess I can't put it past anybody, man. Who says that? And I think for EP 40, the biggest question for me is, is there actually an appetite around the league to take on that contract and give you something that's meaningful back in return. Yeah, I can see Toronto being like, yeah, we'll do a Riley for EP40 swap. I can see teams being like, yeah, we'll give you a very inefficient contract that has five, six

years left at a big number and we can make that swap. But if you're not taking money back, do you have to retain money? And if you're just getting rid of the contract, is anybody willing to take that on fully? And if they are, are you willing to let him go for a pittance, essentially. And that's going to be ultimately what you figure out here. I do think that the confidence, the organization has had an EP40 has really diminished. The new GM comes in, they may view it differently. They may look at it and say, in three years, about three years or so, his contract is going to change in terms of he'll be have a higher cap hit than the actual salary. And at that point, it's easier to move guys with the ever-changing salary cap. We sell the numbers today. By that point,

that might be $1,5,000, $20 million on the cap. So that contract could be a lot more digestible and easy to take on, especially for teams that want to be around the cap floor with it being a lot higher, with that person coming in and say, you know what, I understand that we don't organization and believe in this player the same way. But if we want to look at it logically, the best path forward is being patient and seeing what happens. But if you come in and say you want to make a big culture change and you want to wipe the clean slate and you want to have a clean slate and you want to move forward in terms of building a new culture

and getting rid of a lot of the baggage that was here, maybe you're willing to take a lot less to move a guy like EP 40 out. But ultimately it comes down to, how does it league view EP 40? Because the contract's not great, and the play on the ice hasn't been great either. Yeah, I mean, maybe I gotta be honest with this out.

I wasn't up too late pouring over the Canucks tapes this season. What happened to Patterson? Like, just what do you think happened to him? Because it's crazy the difference. Because he used to be physical and dynamic and in the battle. And then it just stopped. Yeah. And that's why a lot of people think that there was a mental side of this

where something just severed whatever it was mentally in terms of where he was. There have been some physical things that have happened. Now, when you talk about the physical issues, number one, there are a lot of people in Vancouver that are very cynical when it comes to how the Canucks medical team handles situations. So they point to that and say, oh, it's not his fault and whatnot. And players are going to have issues, right? Like he had the need issue a couple years ago.

He's had shoulder and wrist injuries. Those things do happen. But the reality of the National Hockey League guys, and you guys know this as well as anybody, everyone's playing hurt. You got to figure out how to overcome. And yes, sometimes you have injuries that are so debilitating. It really limits you.

But name me a hockey player who's a great player over 82 games that's not dealing with something over the course of the year. And I think internally, there's a sense that, yes, he might be hurt sometimes. And sometimes there are things that he has to find a way to push through. And is he a player who can handle playing at a high level of everything's not right? Because I think whether it's mentally, physically, the overall environment, things have to align for EP40 to be at his best. But the way the world works is things aren't always going to align.

You have to always be at your best. You have to find ways to overcome. So I think it's a very convoluted overall situation. And I do think the whole locker room dynamic and how things fell apart over the past few years also, I think, hurt his confidence in his overall swagger with how he handles and deals with things. So I think it is partly physical, but more than anything else, when I look at his issues and how he's not in the battle to your point, the same way he had been in the past, that to me tells me it's whatever's going on, it's between the ears.

I can just tell you guys, like, you know, as someone, if I were in management with the team and salary caps have gone up through the roof, you know, it feels like there's something to salvage there, right? This guy's not that old and he's, if it is mental, which you hope you put them in a better environment. If I'm asking this to both of you guys, if you're the new general manager of the Canucks and you're trying to potentially trade

Elias Patterson, what is it that you're presenting? Like, how are you presenting it, like, as a down asset? Like, I just, I don't know how you could present what you've seen over the last. I think all the stuff the statute said, you'd be bringing up, you know, that like, hey, this could be mental and there's still a lot there. It's just a big risk. It's a big picket. It is.

Well, that's the thing. I think what you're selling is the fact that he's still young enough and he's shown the ceiling. And the thing about Pedersen, which has been so bewildering in so many different ways, that the first three years in the National Hockey League, his production, based on his age and games played, was among some of the best that we've seen in the cap, in the modern era of the National Hockey League, not quite at the level of the Sydney Crosby's and McDavid's, whatnot, but not that far off in terms of a young player coming in and having a big impact right away. So you saw the height being almost as high as it can get early on in his career, and he

He had a dip in the past, and I think what you could point to is he did have that trouble spot between the North Division year and the year afterwards where his game really fell apart, and we all kind of wondered what happened to EP40, and then he figured it out. Then he had the 100-point season afterwards, and he really pushed his game forward. So I guess you could always sell that we've seen this in the past, and with maturity and with a better situation, we know we can balance back. And is there an organization that's needy enough down the middle that might be somewhat depleted in their assets or being a position where they're willing to roll the dice on taking the upside.

And that, to me, it's two teams. It's either two teams. With a Swedish guy in charge and a new risky general manager? Potentially. Or a re-holding team, right? Or a team that's like on the cuss that has some cap space doesn't have a lot else to offer, but we're willing to take that type of risk. So it's a win-now team that only has a few cars to play or a team that has a long-term approach.

Totally. Yeah. So, you know, Quinn Hughes moves on. this year. I don't know how you guys are feeling about the return kind of half a season later, but Austin Matthews is in the conversation here in Toronto where, you know, people are going maybe, you know, now we got the first overall pick. Maybe that's something that we should do.

How do you look at trading superstars like that having gone through it and what team should be looking for as return? I think more than anything else, you need one elite asset, more than anything else. Now, obviously, you want the multiple first round picks. But the first round picks to me always interesting, because if you're trading him to a contender, generally speaking, even if you get two or three, and if that team stays in the playoffs, you're talking 20s and late 20s. And that's helpful, but it's usually not a spot where you're finding franchise altering players.

So if I'm the Leafs, I either want a top five pick in this year's draft with San Jose be interested, perhaps, you know, at number two. That's what I'm looking at. I'm looking at one massive piece, and then you also want to get three or four other pieces that bring you around first round pick value. I guess you can debate whether you think Zeev Bouillon is a true elite level piece, but there is some upside there for him to become potentially a top three top pairing D-man. And that you would say is generally speaking on elite-level asset.

So you have to get one of those elite-level assets, whether it's a top-five pick. And then you want two or three other assets that are at least around the first round level. And I think that's where the Kinnock did well overall. We can debate whether a guy like Zeev Williams, a better asset than a Simon Edwinson. Now, Detroit didn't want to pull the trigger on it. that's kind of the class of player that you wanted to see the Kinex get back and return. And at Quinn Hughes trade, you want the other first round pick. And then I think getting a young established player who's in his early 20s that can be

either a second pairing D-Man, second-line center, or second-line wing. I think that's something that you would love to have in the fold as well. So I think the overall template for the Quinn Hughes trade is really what you should be looking for, but you have to ensure you're getting one elite level piece. Because if you're not, then it's just quantity. Yeah, it's funny. The last thing I was, how many rigged texts in the 650 text box today? When it went to that commercial break, I was like, oh, this is, this is fishy.

There are a lot, man. Every other text was it's rigged. And, you know, I had, I almost had a connoisseon on here too when it happened. I don't think it was rigged. I'm like, just, are you serious? Come on. The police just missed the playoffs. They're the ones that win the draft lottery.

But yeah, this is rigged. We don't trust Gary Bettman. And, and whatnot. Well, listen, we really appreciate your time. And hopefully not too long for a turnaround. And the Canucks end up getting their guy in the end, Sat. Here's to hope. You're the man.

That beard looks money, bro. The beard looks great. Yeah, one beard's been to another. I appreciate it. Always fun with you guys anytime. See you, bud. Thanks, pal. That's Satchaw, the host of Connect Central and Canucks game host for Sportsnet.

We get the three just bearded fellas here. We got the sat and I got the gray coming. I got it. You got a couple years. I got one spot right about the lid where it comes in. That's okay. Listen, I don't care what color it is. As long as it keeps growing. Yeah.

As long as it keeps growing. I don't care. I will say that the worst commercial break in sports history. So tell me, walk me through this. So I started the show. I watched it last year and it was kind of I found it a little tedious. Yeah. So at the start of it, I took my dog for a walk.

I had to come back at 715. Jasper had to go. And as I got back in, it was like, happening. Yeah. So I didn't. It happened faster. I saw it in real time happen, but I didn't see the lead up to it. So it happened a lot faster than I thought it was going to.

Last year's 30 seconds per thing, I guess 15 this year. And I just thought it was going to be kind of, and it just was like, okay, this is happening. Yeah. And yeah, so they get to the last ball. They're showing in real time the odds changing and like Knox go up and then they go down and the cracking slides in there. And then there's all. And then they're like, here's what number every team needs to win. To win.

But first, a message from our. I was like, no, are you kidding? I'm sitting there in the rink just like great. It's the most valuable ad of all time. Oh my God. Like no one would have been switching. They would have been locked in. But they kind of had it going like they do in the PGA tour.

They had the playing through. Yeah. So you could see the, you could see them kind of like standing there just being like. No one like rolled out the ball machine for a different one. It was on air the whole time. Yeah. So they,

they kind of just popped up and 12 came up. Jets. Jets fans got. the Zepruder film going today. They got the eight halfway up to shoot before the 12. I don't know if you remember this, Borny. But during the 2020, I don't know when they would have done the draft lottery,

but it was around the time the lease were playing in the bubble. The Lafranier draft happened and they were doing the draft lottery and the lease were in that. I don't know. I forget what their odds were, how they were in it. But like, the speaking of Zabruder film, the Leafs ball was like halfway

up the tube. And it fell out and then the Rangers went up there. Why were they just using a picture with the ball at that? Like, they've really changed this how it works. So I don't know. But anyways, what a moment for Toronto. And listen, if you're listening in Vancouver now, I really, really appreciate you. If you want to let it out on me, just text it and tell me how you're feeling.

Yeah. Text us $5.5.90. I know you're probably mad at me for talking about this a whole time, but it was exhilarating for Toronto. It is fascinating that we are in the midst of the second round of the NHL playoffs last night. Oh, yeah. Colorado. Who's playing? Yeah.

Colorado Avalanche, now up to nothing on the Minnesota. Little Wild Nathan McKinnon, an absolute force. And age, we'll talk about that stuff in the back half of the show. I truly cannot wait for the Habs Saber series. Yes. So let's do game time. Yeah. Let me just see here quickly.

It's game time. It's game time. It's game time. Preserve by Bet365, an official partner of the NHL must be 19 plus. Ontario only, please play responsibly. So yesterday I gave out the happiness edge potential of the, of the first, or the Leafs keeping their pick and it going. We're sticking with the draft.

Was there anything better than paying to get the leash to keep their pick? I got an admission. I was driving. I didn't get to do it. You didn't get to do it until I was because I drove straight to the rink. You got the pick and you didn't lose any money. I just didn't have time to get it in. I just didn't have any money.

Anyways. 12 bucks on a pack of darts. Yeah. Actually, my, my boy E hooked me up after hockey. So we're good. They have the NHL draft 2026, number one overall pick odds on that 365. I checked this earlier, okay? Gavin McKenna earlier today was minus 300.

Yeah. Would you like to guess what he is at now? Minus 150. Minus 600. So it's gone up that much in two hours. Hey, hey, listen, give me the other names. Can you bet the field? Just the field is there at plus 400.

Are you kidding me? Plus 400 for the field? Yeah. We just had our draft expert come on and say McKenna, not the guy. I know. So anyways, I find that extremely fascinating to look at that. Anyways.

By the way. Just saying. Austin Matthews and Macon-Cell-Labrini followed each other on Instagram today. Well, maybe we'll get into that a little bit after the break. That was Game Time presented by Bet365. An official partner of the NHL must be 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Matthews for the second overall pick.

Who says no? Second's probably not enough. Second and Misa? Now we're talking. Would do that. I would do that immediately. Both teams would? Yeah, how serious are the sharks?

Good question. How serious are they? There's a lot of that exact trade proposal in my DMs and in my group chats. I think the sharks say no to that. You do? Yeah. Really? You know what the one that was sent to me that interests me, which fake trades are always the most fun?

Yes, I love fake trades. Matthews for favor, who says no? Brock Faber. I think the wild, 100%. Think the wild say no? 100%. Just their D is too important? No, I mean, I just, he's so much younger and he's dynamic.

They just, the only reason I think it's viable is their center position is so bad. And Garin loves Matthews. I mean, if they want to do that, I'll drive Matthews to here. Listen, you just need both those, I mean, they can't have them all. Imagine how much better the least decor is if Brock Faber's there. Yeah. And I guess how much worse their centers are with our Austin Matthews. Forward.

Anyway, okay. You did that was game time. You already check us out. Okay, we will see you, I guess, on the other half of this break, and we will check in with the actual hockey being played because we should pay some attention to that when we come back. Hey, it's Alish Forafar. And I'm Justin Cutford.

Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games of the night. It's the fan pregame. 6 p.m. weekdays on Sportsnet, SportsSat 590, the fan, and wherever you get your podcast. Welcome back to Real Kipper and Born. Sammy, over to you. Time now for the accuracy.

You're a performance matchup. The 2026 Accura MDX, precisely premium. Game two, Anaheim Vegas tonight. I think Vegas is in for a series here. Yeah. I'm worried that they're not. I hope they are. Oh, you know, I watch a lot of that game.

The ducks are just really fast and fine and young. There are lots of, there are lots to handle. So I find this stat incredibly infuriating when I'm reading about the Vegas Golden Knights and it's not even Martin related. The Golden Knights can record their seventh winning streak of five or more games

in the playoffs since their inaugural season in 2017, 2018, which is the most amongst all teams over that span. Next closest is Colorado with five. That's insane. Yeah.

They've never suffered. But it's also the Pacific. They've had a couple of coasty rounds here and there. Could do anybody else get that? No, you're right. They've had a charmed, existence.

So I don't know. I just, that one really pissed me off. Brett Howden leads the Vegas Golden Knights and goals in the playoffs with five. Underrated. Underrated guy. And the type of guy in playoffs you need.

Where you're like, where did he come from? Who did that? That's exactly kind of the guy. Carter Hart's been good for them. And here's one that will piss off the Leaf fan listening. Mitch Marner,

nine points in seven games for the for the Golden Knights. Can tie Jack Eichel for the third few games to 10 career playoff points of the Golden Knights. Max Patch Ready and Mark Stone or share the franchise fastest. I've been falling along. We got an empty dadder. We got some second power play assists. It's not

been. It's been good lately though. Last couple games he's been good. I think the only thing more predictable than this is the sun rising. Truly. Yeah, he's been good. A big part of their team. The other note I did want to make is someone asked

Cutter Gochay, the difference in from last season to this year for the Ducks and why some of the young guys are having more success. He's like, I think it's just the coach. You know, just like flat out like, sorry to the guy before we're better coached. I'm sure if you were there last year, you're like, you guys are all year older and your children. That's what's doing it.

You're really big and strong and fast now and Leo Carlson's gotten better. I got to tell, I don't think it's long until we talk about Leo Carlson amongst the top 10 to top five players in the league. He's like new malkin to me. Unbelievable. Anyways, that was the accurate performance matchup, the 2026. Accura MDX precisely premium. Good stuff.

Got a text on the text line here. The techs are pouring in for Vancouver. Love that. Thank you. Listen, I'm sorry that I'm here. I don't know what to say. Do they hate you? No, they're not.

Even that mad. It's just like they're really upset. Yeah. And they were really banking on this. And the big me from Toronto swooped in there and stole it. But the text I didn't want to bring up. The draft lottery means Sammy now has to buy a Dallas Star's Maverick Bork jersey in honor of him having a hat trick to,

to lead the stars over that win. And I forgot that on lease talk, did you say that? After that game, that I would buy a Dallas Stars Eric Bork jersey if the lease won the draft lottery. So now I'm going to have to buy one, I guess.

Surely there's some T-Moo. I don't know. I mean, their sweaters with like the old school kind of ones are actually beautiful. I think that's we've all, that's a sci-op where we've all just agreed that that, it's terrible.

They're terrible. They're all terrible. They were never good. Why are we all saying that they're good now? I don't get it. But yeah, Maverick Fork jersey, that'll look great on you. Yeah. Look forward to it.

What else you got in the inbox? Well, it's a ton of, a ton of just upset. Like, do you want me to read upset people? Or you just, I'm just reading, just know that I am reading all your texts from Vancouver and I feel for you. I do. Yeah. I'm sorry, guys.

I'm sorry that police. But you know what? You just can't, you sent me a clip today. Gary Bettman was on the Pat McAfee show. And he talked about how, listen, we are trying to disincentivize tanking. We do not want teams to be trying to lose. So when the islanders go from 10 to 1 and the leaps go from 5 to 1, this is part of the deal. Like you're not guaranteed anything by being bad.

So I think that's his best case that he can possibly make here is this is what we want. So tough bounce. Sorry, Vancouver. Did you want to talk about the HABs and the Sabres? Yeah. Should we start there? Or where do you want to go? No, I think we should start there.

Okay, you're right. Well, or the cap going up? That's cool, 104 mil. Is that 8.5 more? I think 9, isn't it? 8.5? 9. 8.5? Yeah, I don't know.

Guess what that is? That's a Darren Raddish. That's one player. That's a damn. The Leafs currently have 24 million in cap space. Only contracts to sort out there are RFA's Robertson and Machelli. So they've got a ton of money to spend. That's nice.

Did you want to talk about Matthews? to other teams? Kind of. I don't know. Like, I feel bad with a Nash. He followed Celebrini. Yeah. Celebrini followed him.

People are talking about, would you do, you know, the number two or whatever for him? Mm-hmm. San Jose seems like a likely fit if it were to happen. Does it?

I don't know. Does it not? I just, I don't really, I mean, Osse Matthews is only played in Toronto. He's seemingly been a happy as a leaf. He signed two separate contracts here, like Gordo said yesterday.

Like, he's shown nothing but commitment. This is the first time that we've ever really had any wavering on that. So I don't really know what his priorities are at this point. Like, is it to win a cup, I guess? I guess that would be his priority. I would argue to anyone listening that his gold medal that he won in Milan will mean way more to his legacy in the States than a Stanley Cup would.

Like, I mean, I think American fans will remember him way more for that being the captain of that team than they would for him winning a Stanley Cup with the San on the say sharks or whatever. Yeah. But I guess the sharks are up on, they're on the rise, they have Macklin Celebrini. Like I guess that's a team

that you could sell him on. But like, yeah. Doesn't he love being a star? Isn't that the whole thing? Like you're going to go there and you're going to play in like the least interesting, like California market?

Like no slag on San Jose. I don't know. He just strikes me as a king or a ranger or a, you know, or like even the wild. I don't know. Yeah. I picture him being as a superstar in a superstar market.

I regret bringing it up. Why? We're not on the Leafs hour Okay Let's go back to that Montreal Buffalo series I feel you Okay Montreal Buffalo

We haven't done picks yet for this series God I did so bad on my picks Yeah it was a tough first round I did two for eight I got I got avalanche And I got Vegas Yeah And I think that's the end of it

That's tough Yeah I don't think I got one in the east I just think this is a super fast series Two very I like both the years decores a lot. Montreal, I am so scared of like Damadov having a moment of Slavkovsky being new Hosa, Yager. I still, I got

Montreal. Oh, you do? Yeah. Montreal and six. In six? I have really no idea what to expect from this. And we have a Lindy Roth clip here on the matchup and this is what the part of it that I find really fascinating about the youth of this. Let's play Lindy Riff. Rough clip one, please. Derek. Yeah, I think the, you know, first thing you mentioned was youth, the energy that both teams, you know, our team and their team have high and skilled. I mean, Montreal's got a couple dynamic defensemen. We've got, you know, good part of our offenses driven by that top four of our defense.

And goaltending on both teams has been good. And, you know, I think that's a winning recipe. So the youth part of that is fascinating to me. Yeah. It's just it's really unpredictable. There's not really a ton of experience on either of these teams. Both of the, I think you could argue that both of these teams being in the second round

is way ahead of schedule. Totally. And I think for them... This is supposed to be Tampa. This is supposed to be the Panthers still. This is supposed to be the Leaf still. And all three of those teams have just not, are not around. I actually think this is going to be a bit of a trend

where it's like these young guys are not intimidated. They didn't grow up calling their elders Mr. and Mrs. Smith, you know, like they've been like, they're not afraid of, oh, you've done it before. I don't care. I'm awesome. Yeah. And I just think young kids now don't come in with that sort of intimidation level. This is fascinating to me.

New kids on the block are the last second round appearance for some of these teams in the second round. Canadians have been in the second round since 2021. Flyers, 2020. Ducks 2017. Wild 2015. Sabers, 2007. almost 20 years ago. 2007.

So, yeah, you're right. Neither team's coming in laden with experience. I'm going to roll over the other one. But the one thing I am interested in, you got a clip in here from Lindy. So they take down Boston, who went into the series. You remember Marco Stern before the series said, we're the bigger, stronger team,

and kind of expected them just to get rolled over. And then Lindy brought it up midway through that series. It bugged Lindy. And then, if you'll play Lindy Rough Clip, too, we brought it up again. So clip two, please. I'll be careful when I'm answering questions about bigger, stronger teams. Oh, he liked his own job.

You know, I don't, you know, when you look at, I look at it this way. A lot of times, size doesn't matter. It's the will to win the battles. They just knocked out a heck of a team. It had nothing to do with size. It had to do with finding a way to win a game. And you don't always have to be the best team inside that game to win. But you can catch a hold of something that will allow you to win the game.

I don't talk about size at all. I haven't spent one word talking about size or our size is going to make a difference. I talk about will compete and getting to a new level, getting to a greater level of play. Can you get yourself to a greater level of play that is going to be higher than the guy you're playing again? That's really good stuff from Lindy. Yeah. I don't know. I really have no idea.

So I'm just going to pick Sabres in seven because they're the home team. I really don't. I think either team is extremely live. I do think it's going to be fascinating to see if Caulfield, Suzuki and Slavkovsky can get going in even strength. Zero points for Caulfield,

two for Suzuki, zero for Slav. And so one of the big questioning, I listened to Marty St. Louis Presser from this morning and God, it's so much French. angles is just there being like okay time for the english one but um he he was asked about the differences and how much more open this is going to be

like compared to the slog that was that first round where every game was one one two two three like it was just so tight and this was his answer martin st louis on how much difference this series will be Marty st louis clip one okay maybe he doesn't have a marty st louis clip no st louis clip what did he say enlighten us. Just that you have to kind of play the game that's in front of you

and that you can't really get bogged down in what it's going to be. But I think a lot of the sort of Bruins identity was that they were kind of going to play a tighter game and it kind of got away from them. Don't you think this could be an absolute track meet? Yeah. Isn't that potential there? It has the potential to be the Colorado series,

which is fun. I think this is the fastest two-team matchup in the Stanley Cup playoffs. seen so far, which I find absolutely electric. Derek, I just put that clip in there if you want to play it. Martin St. Louis, clip one, please. We're going to have to play the game that's in front of us, you know, and we'll see. If it's going to give us more time and space, you know, defensively, you know, the mindset's the same. You know, we've got to defend with our legs.

We've got to close out space. Got to be organized. I don't think that mindset changes, but, you know, You know, it's a team that will challenge, you know, we'll challenge you, you know, physically speed-wise. And I think we're fine with that. We just got to be ready for it. I hate.

I mean, everything I talk about the has positively, I can just say that I hate, but he's good. Yeah. He's good. You know. He's good. And we don't have to talk about him running up and down the stairs. It Kimber rolls his eye at every time.

But it was either going to work for Marty or not or not. Like, he's a very certain way. And I think if they weren't built. building like the way, like he came in at a time and the ground floor and they all grew together. If he came in and it was a this year's Toronto Maple Leafs or something, it probably doesn't work. There's a different culture there. He had a total chance to build the team in his image. Yeah.

It was beautifully timed. It really worked. It really worked. Other series, Colorado and Minnesota is a beast. Yeah. I can't not quite attract me. Yes, there's a lot of goals, but it's tough and mean. I got to tell you, I don't think anyone's going to beat the Colorado Avalanche

more than four times all playoffs. It's really hard to see. They're already 6 and 0 here now. Colorado's, sorry, Carolina's 6 and 0. I think that was your pick pre. That's my cup final. The 2-1 seats. What a risk.

Are we in it to risk or to get it right? I took Edmonton and the Seds. Yes, I was taking a risk, okay? What is it? I took the Washington Generals. They were two. No, but I just, I love the way Nate is running around. And I feel like there's a little bit of personal stuff with Milan.

And he knows. I love this connection from you. He knows how much better they were in that game. It's Faber. It's huge. It's Boldy. And he's running them through the end boards every chance he gets. He destroyed.

He destroyed Boldie last night. Yeah. Who's a big man. And all Quinathan's having a tough goal. He's hitting him too. Like it's just, this is. always the worry with Quinn Hughes. And we've talked about it with Kipper a million times

that when you get against a big team in a playoffs, the Oilers did it to them when they played him when he was with the Canucks. They just hammer away and eventually it just becomes less and less dynamic. I'm not saying they can't come back in this, but they needed one in Colorado. And like Quinn's still going to make plays and do dynamic things and be awesome.

But if every time you go back to touch the puck, you're getting pounded, it's really tough to think about creative plays and not just survival. on the Minnesota forwards to hold guys up. Why don't we? So he was asked, Bednar was asked about the physical nature of the series

and how like the top guys, because he was, you know, about how they're sort of setting the tone with Nathan McKinnon. He gave a great answer on the physical nature of the series. Let's go to clip two, please, Derek. Yeah, I think, I don't know about setting the tone,

but it's like what the game requires this time of the year, right? Like, people, like, they're big physical team. Yep, I get it, but like we're not small, you know, like you look at our top six. it's not small. We've got a lot of big guys in there, strong guys that aren't afraid of the physicality. Kind of like I said before,

we have the ability with the sort of makeup of our team and the players that we have that we can play, you know, many different styles and have success. But it all kind of leads back to our identity. And the game, in order to win games this time of the year, it requires an extra level of physicality. and commitment to play that way. And I thought our guys did a great job here tonight.

No, that Colorado team, you look at the moves they made at the deadline, to add Cadry and Nick Waugh. Yeah, I mean, it's two excellent centers. They were the first place in the NHL when they did that. Yeah. You know, and that totally changes their dynamic. Until Kippertignton-Giltered Calgary into training.

Oh, yeah, that's right. Kippered on him for a year and a half to move to Kudri. Yeah, yeah, I just, I don't know. what's going to have to happen for them to lose. It's going to have to be like a bad injury or I don't know what it's going to be. Like is Carter Hart or Dostal going to be hot enough to steal a series from these guys? McKinnon was breathtaking last night. You know, fired it in, running guys with the board, skating, just pushing the defense back.

He's just out of this world. It actually kind of makes me upset about the Olympic gold medal game because he wasn't at his best. No, he wasn't even close. No, he wasn't. and he still had a sitter. Oh, yeah. Shut it in the net. No, I know.

I know. We talked about it. But, you know, I do think it's worth noting that this guy when he's on is among the best in the world. We do have his coach on him. Yeah, he was raving.

Let's do a clip one. He was unbelievable tonight on both sides of the puck, the physicality, the defending details, the hunger to check puck's back in all three zones and the speed and pace that he played with him early in the game. It was like he was shot out of a cannon, right? So I thought that's one of his best games of the playoffs for sure.

And, you know, it's not about production. You know, he's going to produce, but kind of reminds me of, like, he's just doing whatever it takes for our team to wicks. That's what he wants the most. It's not about scoring goals. And he's going to hold himself to a standard that he wants to help produce every night because it's the best, you know, way for our team to win. But he's committed in all the other areas right now.

and that game was off the charts, in my opinion. Off the charts. He's a beast. Must be nice just to press the 29 and 8 button. I know. Coaching's very easy. Again. When you just get out of the way.

I'll throw 91 over the boards for a couple of shifts. Maybe Landiscag 2.92. It's funny. We're all like, John Cooper's the best coach in the world. And he got McDavid on his team and he was like... Again! McDavid. Do we know why Gavin McKenna is not playing at the World Championships?

Focus on the draft thing. What's it, the Combine? I don't know. Sure. Oh, yeah. And before we go, this hour of Real Kippermborn was brought to you by our beloved Bed 365. Well said, thank you very much today to Sat Shaw, who was awesome, to Jason Bucola, who was awesome, to the number 12, who is awesome, and to Sam McKee. Your number.

My number. 12, 12, baby. Let's go. Well done. See you guys tomorrow.