Real Kyper & Bourne - Chasing Kane-bows

Episode Date: February 15, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee are joined in-studio by NHL on TNT's Darren Pang who is in Toronto to cover tonight's Leafs game against the Chicago Blackhawks. They tee up the game, reflect on recent trade deadline rumours and answer listener questions (3:48). Mark Lazerus, Blackhawks reporter for The Athletic, discusses the developping reports surrounding a Patrick Kane trade, where Jonathan Toews fits in and the fan perspective of the rebuild (47:10). Kyper, Bourne and Sam close on a coversation about why the Leafs struggle against poor performing teams, the team getting passed by Tampa in the standings and the new league trend of players being scratched for 'trade related reasons.'The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. We got a game day. Holy thank goodness. Toronto Maple Leafs set to go against the Chicago Blackhawks. Goes to Bank Arena. Almost feels like the start of the season for us. Well, the players must too. Like, are they out of shape? It feels like there hasn't been much for us well the players must too like are they out of

shape it feels like there hasn't been much hockey lately there is a lull there's no question that there is a lull and it's gonna pick up once month of march is nuts too is it yeah i really looked it's almost like they play every other day thank goodness listen like love you kipper love catching up at the start of every show but talking about leaf schemes might be a little better for sure it's nick kiprios justin bourne derrick brandeo jen roelich sammy mckee and soon to be in studio the one the only darren peng who is in town to cover the game for tnt. It's in the building. He is in the building

and will be joining us momentarily. He'll be a lot of fun. Of course, we've done this before with Eddie Olchuk. Yeah. And we had an absolutely great response from everybody listening. Sportsnet 590, the fan,

our YouTube channel, Sportsnet Now, iTunes, Spotify. It's great to have guests guests actually come in you're so popular my phone's on fire right now okay it just dawned on me that there's a silent button and i should use it right now man you're a popular fella so it's all good so uh what do you think tonight chicago a team that they're supposed to beat. Yeah. We pretty much said that about Columbus on Saturday night. That didn't happen.

If you wanted to win 10 bucks betting on the Leafs tonight, you'd have to put up 60 to win. Stop it. Yeah, it's the longest odds I've seen all season. How would that have compared to playing Columbus at home after you beat the crap out of them Friday night? Great question. I think they were like minus four 50. So 45 bucks to win 10 in that game.

And they lost. There are minus five 50. So bet 55 to win 10 against Arizona and lost. And they, the only other time they were above minus 500 uh they played anaheim on a back to back and they beat them seven nothing now does uh these ridiculous odds to put up so much money to win so little have everything to do with the the fact that chicago got spanked in montreal and what they got into toronto two o'clock in the morning yes that's exactly it and

this is the thing though I mean it was Columbus on a back-to-back too and Columbus going on the road when you're playing in your home building supposed to be able to handle that but yes it is the same theory that you know Chicago's had a tough trip here played last night lost last night isn't good but that has gotten away from the leafers in the past you think there's any anxiety for the hockey club against a team that i think luke richardson said may have been one of their worst efforts of the season last night and can they look like uh the contending team that they should playing against one of the worst teams in the league tonight for 60 minutes?

The Leafs certainly should. And we do have some commentary from Keefe on that, which I think we'll get to most of that in the second half as we wait for Darren Pang. But the idea for the Leafs is this is the opportunity to show that you're not taking teams lightly, that you can still be pros and execute against teams that you know maybe aren't on your level oh i see panger coming kipper he's wearing a suit he's gonna make us look like fools look at this

the one the only mr darren pang how you doing, boys? Good to see you, pal. Thanks for doing this. Well, yeah, it's five minutes away, this place. That's good. That's what he said, right? We had five minutes away. Was it also 20 minutes for you, just like Eddie O? I told Eddie O I'll check the same thing.

He gave me crap. Unbelievable. Anyway, nice to be here. If you make a couple of lights on Jarvis, you're fine. Nuber guy. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's sweet. What If you make a couple of lights on Jarvis, you're fine. Uber guy. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's what he did. What do you think, I'm driving?

Yes. I thought you were going to come pick me up. I would have, but I... And probably a car that's a dealer car that you got free in the city. That's accurate, yes. If I don't lead the pregame meetings for the real Kipper and Bourne show, it just dies. The show just dies.

Okay. You lead what meetings? Our pre-game meetings. I've been with you a lot of shows. I don't recall him leading. You know, I didn't feel for a second like I had to defend myself there because you've been through it. No, you're good.

You're all good. How's your schedule? Right now? Schedule? Good. 2.45 hard out. All right. I got to get back to the hotel. No, you're good. You're all good. How's your schedule? Right now? Schedule? Good. 245 hard out. All right.

I got to get back to the hotel. I got to pick up Brendan Burke. Okay. We got to go meet Luke Richardson. You know, this is the real job. You know what I mean? The job going to the rink and remember jumping around there. 100%. Meeting the coaches.

How about long term? You know, the next little while here. How's it looking between now, trade deadline, after trade deadline? I'll be with the Blues after a TNT game on a Wednesday and then off to L.A., L.A., Arizona. So we'll have an off day after San Jose in L.A. Awesome. How has the prep changed over the years of doing that job?

Has it always been kind of like this? Being back to being between the benches. Yeah. I mean, did you used to have more access to the coaches and players? Like now you've got to go through PR and everything. I imagine it didn't always used to be like that. You know what? When you are like on a national partner of the NHL,

it does make a big difference. If I was coming in here for the, you know, for the Blues, doing a ballet sports Midwest game, it would be, you know, if I knew the coach real well, send him a quick text, hey, can I meet you outside the office? Just two minutes of your time, you know, one of those. Toronto's always been, you know, a little bit more guarded. Oh, we know.

You know that. So it'd be like, hopefully I get a text. Like, you know, today I just wanted to meet Joseph Wall. You know, he's a St. like, hopefully I get a text. Like, you know, today I just, I wanted to meet Joseph Wall. You know, he's a St. Louis guy. Everybody talks about him. I watched him play as a band. I went out to a couple of tournaments

and I'd never met him before. So I did ask Steve Keough if I could go and, you know, and go and see him. And like after practice, just everybody's going to be gone, but I'd just like to say hello to him.

So I had that opportunity today, which was great, you know? So I think if you reach out to the guys and and you can get what you know you can get what you like yeah you know i think like tonight uh uh is it called gutter hang on a second oh he's uh going into his prep i love it going to the uh the binder hold on you hip or nose the book is out here now i love the, notice the book is out here now. I love the book. Oh, look at this. Once the book is out. He's a professional.

Once the book is out. Is that the same one we used in Vancouver in 2010? It's pretty close, buddy. It's pretty close. It's really close. It's a fantastic book. Are you the Tom Linder there? Wow.

Okay, he is a professional. What's that like? Professional broadcaster. Here. No, I can't remember. Here's the fourth line broadcaster. No, no. It's just because i can't remember

names anymore but anyway the kid uh cole gutman is his name i don't want to screw up his name sorry there cole but he was an original tampa bay pick he went to du won a championship and it looks like it's not confirmed but looks like he might make his nhl debut tonight oh wow you know so i reached out to tony oman their pr director i just said hey just before the game i'd like to snag this kid for two minutes and give him his time, you know. Captain of DU, national championship, and declined to sign with Tampa Bay

and signed, many teams wanted him, and he ended up signing with the Blackhawks and he's going to get an opportunity. Well, we're going to have you for roughly about 40 minutes here. We're thrilled to have you. Of course, he is Darren Pang, NHL on TNT in studio, getting ready for the Toronto Maple Leafs, Chicago Blackhawks set tonight. I think we may even take some calls or not some calls,

some messages from Twitter or YouTube. Sammy McKee, our trusted producer, will stay on top of that. Attaboy, Sammy. Attaboy. He's tall, huh, Sammy? He is. he doesn't seem so tall when he's texting you but man i saw him on the side of the street like just a tall drink of water right there for sure so uh chicago tonight coming off maybe one of their worst efforts uh all season long here uh justin me the... He told me that you have to bet $10,000 to win four tonight. It's not accurate, I don't think.

But it is. You do have to bet $60 to win 10. Let me just think. That's how much they give Chicago a chance to win tonight against the Leafs. Even though the Leafs haven't played well against the lesser of the teams? Even though. Good bet in window if you're a betting person. I still wouldn't go there. With

Austin returning, the jump that they're going to have, you know, the lessons learned from the Columbus series. But you know what I found? Is again, the same thing every single year. Honestly, throw the numbers out the window. It's this time of year.

Every guy in every team that's a bad team, they've heard the whispers. Everybody's getting traded. They're worried about their buddy next door, their wife's friends of his wife. They're getting traded. All of a sudden, they start playing hard. Yeah. Have you watched the Arizona Coyotes play lately? No, I have not.

Good team. They play hard. They look like a good team. I mean, they look like they try. They defend the front of the net. They'll fight for good team. I mean, they look like they try. They defend the front of the net. They'll fight for one another. I'm like, that's really great. We saw that Saturday night, the Columbus Blue Jacks.

Absolutely. Back-to-back with the Leafs. You think they're at home now. Last change. Comfort zone up to nothing. Barely gave up three shots on goal in the first 17 minutes. Everything looks great. And then the switch.

They outwork them they out hit them uh they look like they're a team that uh wants to go to the playoffs and the leafs had no answer the last 40 minutes i mean it's remarkable and we're not close to playoffs yet yes you talk about having to dial it up for the playoffs and and and play a different game yeah you know kyle went at him pretty good after uh with uh the lack of effort and the competitiveness he's watching he's sitting up there from 200 feet watching what it is i mean or i'm sorry no no sheldon sheldon sheldon well he saw it from even closer he was a lot closer a lot closer yeah a little bit more direct route for the coach to

address that and he said that in the time off with these guys he's had some individual meetings with guys and one-on-ones and you know which i love that question that the idea that there's another gear for guys like when you watch nhl hockey and the pace and all that like you're you know you're often down by the ice and you see the energy guys can't really not try but how are they able to find another gear? I've seen guys not try. Okay. We played with the guys. I mean, you're watching and you're, you know, we still have a hockey brain. You know what I mean?

It's like, oh, that's all he's got. Yeah. You know that that's it. And more times than not, that gets shown on Twitter because somebody goes, whoa, what happened there? Yeah. You know, can't get away with as much as you used to so you know in your following of teams this year the st louis blues have been a

team that have underachieved and you're there all the time watching that team berube is a guy who's great at getting effort out of guys typically is it is anything changed there this year is it effort or is it just personnel yeah i think just i think that you have to have you have to have buy-in. If you don't have buy-in from your core group of players, and if you don't have one player on the team that grabs you by the scruff of the neck and says, let's go, then you're going to have trouble. Because you do have a lot of the generation is maybe not as intense. It's not life or death.

You know, where I was fortunate enough to be a broadcaster for the Blues when they won the Cup. Yeah. And watching a guy like Alexander Steen every single day taught me an awful lot about hockey. You know what? It taught me an awful lot about when one player can challenge three guys, you know, on the bench or his own line mate on the bench and tell him that that line change was the most selfish and undisciplined line change line change yeah i mean seriously like not many guys have the ability to talk about one of the most important parts of the game that nobody talks about i don't see that on in any analytics no by the way right like i i don't see any point

anything there that says poor line change dump puck in improperly and led to defenseman being on the ice for a minute more than he should have been on the ice is there is there something how you affect your teammates who aren't even on the ice yet yeah i want you know that and then when you watch the game and the same rules have applied for a lot of years you're playing the clock you're getting the puck in deep you're defending the line there's the gray the gray area inside and outside the blue line. There's still prominent discussions, and you need players to drag guys back in. And if you don't, I think everybody goes,

it's like a cloud of dust. It just goes, and there's where you get your inconsistent play. Doesn't hearing that make you worried about the Leafs? I know everything comes back to the Leafs on this show, but the amount of guys that just grab someone and say, hey. Yeah. You know? The one thing that's been consistent.

Steen's not coming back. He's not. No, you guys had him once. Yeah. Listen, you've done a terrific job covering the St. Louis Blues. You're covering the Blackhawks tonight for TNT, which brings me to the New York Rangers and the decision to go after Tarasenko

instead of Pat Kane. What do you make of that? How many minutes were between the two decisions? How many seconds were between the two decisions? How did it come about that Doug Armstrong made that deal before Kyle Davidson did? I'd really like to know how the clock worked right there because, I mean, it appears as if the Blues deal got slid in like an Andy Murray pre-scout night

piece of paper underneath your door at the hotel room. You know what the key was that, though? The difference maker? Mikola? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And there could have been a prospect, you know,

maybe there was an A-plus prospect that was wanted on the other side of Chicago. You drag your feet for one second, you know, and then you get an excited Tarasenko as well. I mean, with Panarin, you know, truly being a good friend. Yes. And with Shesterkin and, you know, I mean, that doesn't make it all perfect, but it is probably nice for he and his wife and his kids and his family

to know that Panarin was there. And, you know, the neat thing is, too, is, I mean, Kane and Tarasenko, they can't just go to any team. Like, they're left-hand shots that play the right side. Right. You don't stick them on the left side because all your rights are filled up. The Toronto Maple Leafs, as an example, if they needed a left winger, you can't.

Vladdy doesn't play left wing, and Patrick doesn't play left wing. It's interesting you say that because just before that I was going to say, am I fair to describe Tereschenko as a complicated uh teammate or player like i've never been in the room you know i've never been in i've never been in the room with him you know so all i know is he turned it you know what he at the most important time i think that with the team they had in 19 and the change in coaches from from mike yo to to chief and chief had the rear and he played hard yeah otherwise they don't win you know so right what's happened after that um the uh i mean let's face it you go back in history it's not easy to go through the timeline and say you know he has to be traded you know and then his agent made at that time i he came out very bold and put down a lot of people

you know that are training the training staff the doctors i mean yeah that's a hearty blow and then somehow everybody puts it behind them and and they still worked hard that next year and they still you know they've still been a competitive team this is the first year that they've fallen off that 109 points last year so complicated um maybe demanding maybe um um sometimes if things aren't perfect i did notice on the ice that's a good word well that that changes or shifts i I'll call them length of shifts, could get short. Really? That's funny because a lot of guys stay out there. They want to be longer.

Right. But some guys are excited. What I found, and I have found this with a few guys as well, high-end guys that think the game a different way. He's a very intelligent person. He's a very demanding person. His dad was an extremely high-end coach in Russia. And, you know, going through it, if you ask him a question,

it better be a good question. And he doesn't go with the fluff. He thinks of what you're asking. So I've got to know him very, very well. And I know when I ask him a dumb question because I can see it, you know, or the answer that I get. I know that the question wasn't good enough for the answer. So in saying all that, yeah, he's a demanding guy,

and there's been some fickle moments, I'm sure, that have led to all of this. And I know it's a very small sample size, but you mentioned the relationship with Panera, and they're off to a good start. He will be probably on his best behavior because you know that he wants a new contract. And you mentioned like, yeah.

He didn't get that offer that maybe he was not expecting, but hoping for, you know, in St. Louis. And so, yeah, now, I mean, he's on Broadway. Yeah. Anybody surprised that he scored in the first game? Not me. I would have bet my mirror golf clubs on that. All 15 sets of them.

Really? Yeah. And one's probably in your bag right now he scored a telescopic he scored on his first game with the blue scored his first shot and then he scored in the second shot like i mean the guy's got part of this like any great score is that he's so good and he can turn it on and that he turned it on when barubi's baruba is there and then going to the rangers now they're hoping that they get that motivated guy playing for a deal that you can see how that can work you know patrick kane does seem a little bit like that to me right now a guy where you know he wants to be in a good situation

he's able to kind of dictate his circumstances you mentioned family for tarasenko and friends being there and all that like how much is that a factor for Kane and Taves do you think and what happens is it just like go for another cup run don't care if it's in Carolina or Toronto or do you think family is a factor for these guys too I think where where both of them go means a lot yeah I'm sure you know like I mean I've not seen too many players speak as disappointed as Kane did about not playing for another team after that like I was really we don't hear that very often most guys just kind of shrug it off as if it never happened or you know but he he laid it out on the line and I was pretty impressed by that he was disappointed you know what my first thought was is like that's the way 99% of the league should react to, but not Pat Kane.

Like, Pat Kane acted as if he's just one of any other player that's being out there. That's one of the greatest Chicago Blackhawks in history. How is he not in the loop? How does he not know exactly what's going on behind the scenes? Or was he told that he was traded? Yeah. Was he told that he was traded?

And then it didn't happen, so he was real high? It does feel like he has, it does feel like he hasn't told Chicago. I'm just saying that maybe, maybe that, you know, it was like the door was open. You're,

you're there. You think now Lucy will attack and find that Mikala. So what happened in, in, in a space of, I don't know, three minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes,

30 minutes. I don't know. You're telling me as I'm off and maybe it was the opposite. Maybe he knew exactly what was happening and then got the rug pulled out from underneath him. That's a sense I would get. Oh my goodness. I'm a sharp, I'm not that sharp of a guy, Kipper.

Oh, you got a scoop! No, no scoop. I don't think that's a scoop. I think that's... I never thought of that. You look at his... what he wanted to happen you know he said up you know that the new york i mean basically said the new york rangers the one team i mean he has control of where he's going he obviously said the new york rangers are where i'm going and then once you say

that and you have a no trade if you were the player if it was you wouldn't you expect once that's being said that now it's done? Because someone's asking the question. They're saying, you know, is that team the one that you want to go to? Yeah. I like the theory. You wonder how that affects their relationship with the GM then if you're Kane and you're like, hey. In fairness, he's a young GM and it's a tough spot. Being the GM and this is your first big move?

Yeah, you're trying to appease the player and the fan base, but also you're shaping the perception of the rest of the league about you. And at the end of the day, Doug Armstrong found a way to sweeten the pot to get a first rounder. And it appears that maybe the first rounder was never on Kane's side. There was nothing else to support a trade to New York. They just chose Tarasenko's deal over Chicago's. But again, unless Kyle was working on a different prospect.

You know, like we all don't know about what determines from one team to another team's evaluation of a prospect. Is it an A prospect? Is it a B-minus prospect? They go through the numbers like it's fairly easy, but, you know, I mean, is Hunter Skinner the player that came over? I mean, it sounds like it's a big project. I mean, he's an American Hockey League, East Coast Hockey League,

you know, defenseman that did win gold for Team USA and does shoot the puck hard. Apparently, he fired it 107 miles an hour in one of the All-Star or one of the shooting skills. But, you know, but is that the guy? Maybe Kyle Davis? I mean, he has to hit more of a home run even. I mean, his guy won three Stanley Cups

and has a real full no-move, no-trade. Vladdy doesn't have even the same security as him. Where would New York's concerns for Patane physically be compared to uh tarasenko well there's no there would be no concerns on on vladdy yeah you know even though he's had this shoulder surgeries that is one of the toughest ones to hold the surgery it's hard to say that quickly um that but he's i mean he'd check the boxes and everybody knows that you know patrick and the word's gotten out that maybe he's laboring a little bit um heck i've been laboring with a bad hip for a while i played 17 rounds in 10 days in ireland and scotland the other day

i mean i can you know what i watched you walk in here today i said something's wrong somebody said somebody said you know i mean like i don't have his is he you know would he go to another team and have a lot of more giddy up and go right suddenly he might find another gear yeah all right that's fascinating but he gets the puck anyway and he controls the pace of play anyway i don't i don't ever consider him the fastest player in the world maybe he was more powerful in his day to fake right, go left. To me, that's Mitch Marner now, where he doesn't have to be the fastest guy because he dictates the pace.

Dictates and is shifty. Still can give you a head fake. You can bite on that, nibble on it, and go the other way. There's still something about Patrick Kane when he gets that puck on his stick. Or old Kimo Tiemann and still looking for his jock on that OT Cup winner from Patty Kane. Shook him good. I see that in Marner.

Just needs to happen in playoffs for him once. God, we're dying here. Who is the biggest name out there? I think Timo Mayer. If we question Pat Kane and his willingness to maybe move or his health, how is... I mean, if you can make a real hockey deal and get Timo Meier... How are there not a dozen teams right now screaming to get Timo Meier?

He's, like, I've done a number of games with him at ice level and don't really know him that well. You get to know guys and their personality. I don't really know him that well. I do know that he's a pretty competitive son of a gun. He gets that puck through the neutral zone and he carries it and he determines the pace of play going north is it am i often saying like a little marion hosa here maybe you know that's that's not a bad call i think marion hosa was one of the best two-way

players that's ever played the game funny i was just saying that on a show today for him though was he always good two-way i feel like i think he was second he always was okay oh yeah i think he was always good two-way but you know what how he didn't win a Selkie is beyond me. Beyond me. It's the winger biased. When's the last time a winger has won a Selkie? I mean, he and Steve Larmer. Yeah.

Two Hawks that got robbed for the Selkie award for, you know, the way that they play. But anyway, Hose is a different animal, I think. But, you know, I think Timo Meier brings the intangibles of what a playoff team wants. Strong on pucks. Get it north. Keep control of pucks. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Make a play.

Drive to the net. Big and strong. And he shoots it. I think he's top five in shots or something. Yeah, on shots. And he's got a bit of a temper. And I think he would blend in. I think his personality would allow him to blend into any organization.

He wouldn't be a guy that goes in there and everybody goes, okay, what's he going to say next? I think he just finds his way in. I really am a big fan of Timo Meier. It would take more assets and you'd have to get a deal. I mean, you'd have to get a deal knowing that you're going to sign this player. Yeah. Maybe it's a core player for a core player.

Can you see Carolina with the loss of uh patch ready they have 18 mil coming off their cap this year on a short on a short window where they use them and possibly if they don't like the extension for them they flip them with a with a year remaining as an rfa can they do that yeah yeah you can you trade his rights to someone else to try to before yeah yeah you're right when kipper starts talking and goes slow i get really worried it is the speed is not the concerning stuff i get concerned i'm like okay i've been down this road before usually i'm eating and you worry about me choking. He's talking RFAs and I put out a questions for panger thing on Twitter and I'm staring at the question here, how Darren Pang became spanky.

He's talking about RFAs and I'm trying to process that at the same time. Spanky, we haven't called you that in years. Was that a legitimate nickname? Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's 100%. That's exactly right. This is from Jen Conwayway's a hockey historian yeah yeah i was i was literally in in in milwaukee and and somebody put up there's a sign hanging at the old

at the old mecca arena and where the admirals played and it said uh you know something about hey hey spanking our gang or something like that and then one of the french guys uh we had a couple of them there on that team and i know renee bideau was one of them um guys, we had a couple of them there on that team. And I know Rene Badeau was one of them. There was another one, too. They couldn't say, for the life of them, they couldn't say panger. And so they kept calling me, like, pank, panky, panker. It was just an odd way of saying it. Randy Boyd jumped on that, like you read about.

And so did Jimmy Ralph. And next thing you know, it was spank. And so as an honor to my minor league hockey i put spankster on the back of my the skull cap and because uh you know we had a bunch of guys duke grant dirk graham was dukes you know he became dukester i was spankster there's another somebody else was a stir i had a guy in the minors uh peter horchak we call him chuckster it was just one of those things but that's how nicknames come on board. I was somewhere the other day. It was in a rink.

Somebody yells out, Hey, spank. Well, you know, right away that I played with that guy. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, as it turns out, I think it was Mark deepest quality with the Calgary flames trainer. And, and he was been, was in Chicago for a long time. Nice.

And so I knew it right away. Like that's, that's a guy that I've played with or been around through those years. Well, we're thrilled to have Darren Spanky Panger. Love it. In the studio today. Gearing up the Toronto Maple Leafs and the

Chicago Blackhawks for TNT. Panger, if we look down teams on the cusp of what are you, a buyer or a seller seller we probably have still a half a dozen teams uh islanders is it uh yeah where are the islanders at where the islanders uh where are that's uh that didn't go well last night that was awful that was off what what uh what team to you might still be there but shouldn't be there? Nashville, jab them as sellers in about a week, week and a half.

It's a tough call for David Poyle. It really is. I mean, you can't move those. A nice defenseman. Yes. I mean, for whatever reason, that Matthias Ekholm's name continues to come up. Oh, don't get Sammy excited on that name. Well, because he's awesome.

He is awesome. He's just terrific. And I remember last year when they were talking about that. And, you know, that's their team. It's not something for me. Like, you know, I do work not for not something for me like you know i do work you know work not for the st louis blues but i do broadcast their games and i think i've got to be real respectful to other other guys you know to what they're doing i remember being asked the

question we were in nashville and i said well who replaces matthias ecklman yeah i don't know what's the plan what's the plan because he's's the plan? Because he's a, all I know is when the blues prepare for Nashville or I'm watching the game with Nashville, I know we all talk about Roman Yossi. I can't take my eyes off of that. I know he's a big lumbering guy and maybe the wheels fall off a little bit, but he still does a lot of great things. I'm a,

I'm a big fan of his character, how big he is, how strong he is. I don't know what, where, where Nashville's at right now. But you know what I do know? I'll change it a little bit.

I'll change the routing here. Yeah. Okay? So just like at your fine country club. For sure. Just like at Rosedale, where the Canadian Olympic golfer of 1903 or whatever won in St. Louis on the 16th hole at Glen Echo.

He knows way too much i played i played it the other day with ray ferraro we were talking about our stories together yeah um but um if i'm one of the team let's just go toronto let's go carolina teams that well carolina's you know wanted a while ago but this group hasn't won it i'm really not knocking on the door of a team that's never been in a winning environment. That's interesting, yeah. The Nashville Predators did go to the Stanley Cup Final, and they've been through many playoff games.

If you're talking about a player like Ekholm or a player that's had that experience, I'm going there. If you're talking about the St. Louis Blues, I am going to Ivan Barbashev. Even Noel Achari went to Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Final in his own building. He plays hard. He's serviceable. It matters to him. He's competitive, and he shows it every night. Or Ryan O'Reilly is the captain and a Consummate Trophy winner. I'm always very leery

of taking players that have been losing environments. Those lights get awfully bright in that first round. They get brighter in the second round, and you know what the magnifying glass is like if you can even get to the second or third round, and you don't even know if a player can handle it or not. Well, what's funny is... I want guys that have been in winning environments.

I'm sure, and they've tried in Toronto. They're like, okay, we need some veteran guys to surround our young guys and give them some support, and who's come in? It's Joe Thornton, Jason Spezza, Patrick Marleau. You go through the list, it's guys who hadn't won cups and that's no disrespect to great pros with great careers and whatever but they've been through a lot of playoff games but that and that helps for sure and jake muzzin is a guy who had yeah but yeah

they haven't gone out and added ryan o'reilly or someone and i know that's easier said than done that's or sydney crosby yeah how come we haven't got crosby but which easier said than done which i want to bring up uh a scenario where a lot of maple leaf fans are hoping they could see and it's the complete opposite of what we're talking about and that is the thought that a high touted prospect in the ncaa in this case matthew nye's doing a terrific job in minnesota how do you take a guy that has never even seen the light of day of pro hockey and throw him in an environment where not only are Leaf fans expecting to get out of the first round, but have built up towards a team that should be able to get to a conference final

or a Stanley Cup final in their minds? How realistic is that panger that you could take Matthew Knives and put him in a situation and he can thrive? I don't know because I've never seen him play. Yeah. So I honestly don't know. Yeah. I mean.

But from the mental side. Some guys are unique. Maybe they can and jumpstart you. Has anything come to mind? Well, I remember thinking, Ryan, Holloway last year with the Oilers. Dylan Holloway? Dylan, right? And he ends up only playing the one game.

I think it was the final game, the fourth, and he hardly played. Right. When I got there, because I was there and did game three and four, and I was the build-up, and he's an accomplished player for and I was the build-up, and I was, you know, he's an accomplished player for sure, a highly touted prospect, and it's hard for the coaches, you know,

unless they played two months going into it, I think it's hard for the coaches to know what that player is going to do in that situation. We're all about managing, you know, match-ups and D-zone face-offs, and, you know, that's not a D-zoneone face-offs. And, you know, I don't want to, that's not a D-Zone guy. Yeah, you don't know what you have. Yeah, he's going to get the O-Zone candy for a little bit. And let's see.

And then neutral zone changes. On the ice, off the ice, 22 seconds, get them off. Like, so I don't know. But I've heard good things about the kid. That's for sure. Oh, no, no. I think he's got a chance to be a great pro. But managing expectations.

I mean, I would have to think, yes, I would have to think that going through a training camp and going through preseason games and getting your feet wet that way is way more ideal. It's funny, though. Some guys just jump into it and can do it. Yeah. You know, you just don't know.

I don't know and you don't know. But I wouldn't be, I mean, if I'm managing the team, it wouldn't be the answer you're looking for, you know, to put on the whiteboard before to say this is where we're going to go. Fix the problem. You've got a lot of good pros on this lineup. Absolutely. I mean, every single night you see something more from Yarncroke.

You see something more from Campy. You see something more from even Aston Reese. I think he's done a pretty good job on that fourth line i you know what do you do to build to help yeah you build the bottom yeah you got to get stronger on the bottom like you know i watch this every night yeah and that's what he plays he plays the bottom part he wins 56 of his face-offs he's on the penalty kill he blocks shots and he hits. Sounds nice. It's all Kipper wants. Bring us a guy who does that. You know that. I mean, that's

why you were in the lineup as often as you were winning that. And occasionally up in the press box. Well, yeah, but then there was a little... But he kept everybody on it. That's right. You need a change. You need guys. You need character. You need, you know... And if you're not going to be able to do it... Winning's hard. I'll jump in. Winning's hard. We're 32 teams. Winning's hard I'll jump in Winning's hard We're 32 teams

Winning's hard I think we're going to see that Sorry, go ahead We should get questions before Yeah, let's do it You got a few, Sammy Yeah, we got about 10 minutes left Can you hear me?

Gotcha Yeah, we got you, Sammy Can Panger hear me? He doesn't have a headset on Oh, sure I'll throw these on Like, my hair might get messed up I was going to make the hair joke

But you didn't Can you hear me okay? Yeah, I can hear you loud and clear. All right, beautiful. You got nice hair. What happened there? You're welcome. Thank you.

I appreciate that. It just keeps growing. I don't know what to tell you. No gel today. It's hard to control this thing. All right. This is from a frequent YouTuber on our list. I love these kind of questions.

What arena does Panger enjoy visiting the most and which has the best food oh i love that kind of question i like visiting the montreal montreal yeah little bell center she a show yeah i love going to montreal love having the shea show uh just mustard on it um just mustard that's all yeah that's classic right there yeah i i'm you know there's something about the way the seats are the the way they're angled so So, you know, and I think the first time we played in the Montreal Forum, I literally walked around the concourse. I grew up in Ottawa. I was a Montreal Canadiens fan growing up, and I walked around that concourse, and then I went down to the locker room and I threw up.

Did you, honestly? I was so nervous and so excited and so, like, it was an unbelievable feeling. Yeah. How'd you play? Lost 3-0. Okay. Patrick Waugh. And no one told me I was the second star.

And they were waiting for me to go out. And I would have gone out because it was a Montreal four. Come on. Oh, for sure. All my buddies were there. Oh, devastating. I said, why didn't you go? They said, why didn't you go out?

You were named the second star. And I was like, nobody told me. Yeah. Who's the first star? They told you. They said, why didn't you go? They said, why didn't you go out? You were named the second star. And I was like, nobody told me. Yeah. You know, who's the first star? They told you. They said Patrick Waugh. I'm like, oh.

They told you. It was just in French. Yeah. That was the problem. Le douzy metois. The second star. All right. What else we got here? Okay.

Best prank pulled on one of his teammates from mackles on youtube all right um i was i was a notorious um shoe checker ah yes um i i found that i would have gone into the hall of fame as a shoe checker at dinner kipper um being five four and a half 135 pounds i could scoot under those tables like you read about and uh maybe my award-winning one hopefully he's hopefully he's catching this right now um we had the same coach together not together but at separate times mike keenan yes we're in the playoffs in uh st louis we were all got him and we were all uh every dinner we had was on the water we were rowing the you know we're all rowing the same oars or whatever what yeah and and we were all so we uh we was on the water. We were rowing the, you know, we were all rowing the same oars or whatever.

Yeah, and we were all, so we ate on the water in Detroit was the first round and somehow he set it up that we were on the water. The second round was in St. Louis. We were on the water

and in St. Louis, I scooted around. I must have gone through 10 tables of woof, woof, woof, woof, woof, woof, bang, right on his patent leather beautiful shoes and then I slid back to my table. What the, woof, woof, woof his patent leather, beautiful shoes.

And then I slid back to my table. And you know, if you don't know what the shoe check is, I mean, you, the shoe checker does not say anything. The shoe checker goes in there. He's got a little,

uh, let's say mayo or ketchup, and he's got a little wee container. And when he goes in and just plunks it on the end of the shoe, tries to get two shoes. Try not to get the socks and everything like that, but get the shoes. And then you've got to slide all the way out. And then you've got to get to your table.

And then the guys notice what you've done. And then somebody goes, you know, like this. They go, right? A little tap. A little tap on their glass. Everybody's like, shoe check. And everybody, you step up. Everybody gets up.

Not me, not me, not me. And it was like, oh. And I remember seeing the look on Mike's face was priceless. Oh, Joey Kosher was the worst. Oh, he would have put horse hay and manure. Sour cream. Probably manure from his farm. Breakfast, jam, peanut butter.

Seen that end in fights before and they're like what are you gonna do yeah oh hey joey coaster yeah you can have their shoes pretend i didn't see you i play golf with joey uh probably four times a week in the summertime at duck lake in michigan oh man and another ranger wayne presley oh yeah yeah great group yeah we do no shoe checking uh last one quickly before we let you go, Panger. This is from John Mitchell on YouTube. What does Panger think about the Nets being accidentally

on purpose being knocked off the pegs? Is it a problem? Does the league have to look into it? It's a problem if the same person does it over and over and over again. Yeah, it's a problem. I mean, not everybody knocks off the Nets. I know when Matt Murray did it. Matt Murray led the league, I think, and I think he had five or six. Yeah, it's a problem yeah i mean not everybody knocks off the nets i know when matt murray did the the league i think in it i think he had five or six and it was yeah and it's a lot and they came at times when the puck was in the defensive zone for an extended period of time

and so for me that those are just you know it's very simple that's the first time i think you've got to give a warning like anything else they do that with the mass people don't understand that usually if the goaltender gets hit in the face and his strap comes off and he's worried about his vision because of the bars, he pulls it off because he's worried about, I can't see the puck coming. Or if I move quickly, it's going to fall off.

But usually, the referee, and I saw it with Jordan Binnington, and he got called the second time because he was worn the first time. And so, I think for the net coming off its moorings, yes, could they dig them a little deeper? Yes, could they have the pegs a little bit higher? I believe they should make a change just a little bit higher.

I'm not talking about old school, Darren Pang, number 21 team league era. They're like golf shoe spikes right now. They are. It's not enough. And some arenas don't do it as well as other arenas. But I watched a lot of big heavy goaltenders go side to side and push off and the net somehow doesn't fall off.

It did with Matt, and it hasn't since. So I think he got the message was quite clear about how that was done and when that was done in the time of the game. I'm not going to date you if I say that I believe that you had the newer pegs, right? They got rid of the big, long ones? No, I was in the long ones. Oh, you were in the long ones. Those things didn't come off for anything, huh? No no i couldn't even live i couldn't even get it off

the crossbar i'm like yeah no chance not like ken dryden you know on a stick i was like but not that i'm i'm like for the goalie union because i don't give a crap about them but yeah the it it there is an inconsistency from rink to rink on how quick maybe these things come off a little easier or tougher uh whatever town you're in yep for sure i mean i i think that's probably a skill yeah you know in the hockey ops department or the guys that are you know that that work with the ice but you know they probably had a maybe they had a bad day you know they had a bad day it happens i did want to ask you i saw a picture the other day of a goaltender who played for the pittsburgh penguins who i believe was five foot four no he was he's taller than that was he that was roberto

romano i saw a picture and i was like no he was that was a low crouch huh i mean like that was really low okay yeah so he wasn't that i played against him so he he was five like he was like five six okay yeah he was thicker than me, though. Like he was a Babcock. He's got a big lower half. Big lower half. He's good-faced. All right, pay her.

Roberto Romano. Yeah, he got really down low there. He looked like he looked really little. Yeah, he did in the picture I saw. That's how big I look. See that? One more before we let you go. I'm lumping in Leaf fans.

And thanks for the car that you gave me as a gift it's got the bow on it the car service i can't believe it grab any roger executive car you want here i got no problem with that i'm gonna lump in leaf fans and tampa bay fans in this question does any of them have a chance against the boston bruins oh yeah absolutely oh my god that was quick yeah no for me no no question really yep why lenis allmark hasn't been there before okay we talked about the bright lights you know i mean i you know toronto same situation although matt murray you know he has been there before. Not in an entire, you know, four rounds of his Stanley Cups. But, you know, that's what I think. And I think too, Kipper, like the pressure's on whether they like it or not.

It was on the 1977 Montreal Canadiens. It was on the 1996 Detroit Red Wings. And they lost in the conference final to Colorado. I'm not talking about the most points. I'm talking about now the magnifying glass going on the record. Tampa Bay versus Columbus. Four games straight. Four games straight.

So anyway, that's why I would say that. I think I really like Boston a lot. Hampus Lindholm, that addition was phenomenal. I think they've got some good shutdown guys. I think Forbert doesn't probably get enough credit on that back end. McAvoy's probably not even played his best hockey because of the start out of the gate.

I'm a big fan of the way they play and their coach and their team, but I'm just saying that once you get to that point, no guarantees, pal. You hear that, Leafs fans? No guarantees, big guy. Hey, listen. We had 1,300, 1,400 people on YouTube just to watch you. Really?

Yeah. And I'm calling them all out to give you a thumbs up. Aw, thank you. Do you know what that is? That's that. That's it, baby. Right there for Darren Pang. I learned this new word today because from now to the time I get to the game,

I'm just going to be mossing. That's a thing? Chilling. Okay. I learned that word today. So I'm mossing. I'm 58 years old i'm almost 59 friday i'll be 59 years old yeah wow so yeah uh everybody okay at tnt with talk it uh in vancouver now is the show canceled no i replaced him on his on that chair last week in the studio

only bald guys need to apply and um and so i was there then but before you go into the studio and sit down they've got a big picture of talk you've got to look at it and you've got to give them a wave is that it yeah that's it so you got to give them a wave and uh anyway so we're we're surviving but uh he was a big part of it you know that and everybody loves talk and and he gives a lot of credibility where wherever he is so uh you know for him, but disappointed that he's not with us. Well, we still love the show. Love you. The crew did a great job,

and we so appreciate having you here, pal. Thanks, Kipper. I appreciate that. Thanks, Darren Tang. TNT. Big call tonight. Chicago versus Toronto. We're going to take a quick break,

and we're coming back with more Real Kipper and Bourne. Smart takes on the biggest stories in sports the fan drive time with ben ennis subscribe and download the show on apple spotify or wherever you get your podcasts turn away police getting set tonight to face the chicago blackhaw, one of those games, Justin, where you think it's an easy two points. It's not. This has been an ongoing thing for the Toronto Maple Leafs that for whatever reason, we've heard from Sheldon over the last few months.

We heard from Kyle, hasn't spoke all but maybe once or twice this season but one uh thing that stood out for me when he just spoke a week ago was i want to i want to see how this team responds in the games that uh that we should be favored uh to win you know i think the problem kipper is that everyone thinks they're auditioning for the auditioning for the maple leafs so right now you got gavririkov and Jenner trying to get traded for. You know, tonight, do you think Kane and Taves want to impress the Leafs? Do you think they can? I don't know.

That's a really, really good question. Maybe we'll throw it to Mark Lazarus. I know. Senior hockey writer, The Athletic, based in Chicago, covers the Chicago Blackhawks, is going to join us now. Why don't you, JB, you throw that question to Mark. Hey, Mark, thanks for joining us. Hi, Laz.

How are you? I'm good. How are you guys doing? So, JB just threw it to me, and, of course, I'm going to deflect it right to you. Is this an audition for Pat Kane to maybe pick the Leafs over now the New York Rangers? I'll throw it right back to you. Can the Leafs make it work?

Can they accommodate him? It sounds like a great fantasy thing to have Patrick Kane playing alongside Austin Matthews, arguably the two greatest American players ever playing in Toronto. That's kind of hilarious. And it's a dream scenario. They like each other. They want to play with each other. I don't know if Toronto can make it work, though, financially. Yeah, it would take

a little bit of jumping through some hoops and retained and third parties and all sorts of stuff. What do you say, Kip? I was just going to say, though, guys, isn't this really what Kyle Davidson, the young general manager for the Chicago Blackhawks, isn't this what he should have been figuring out the last few months

on how he could make this work? Did you get any sense at all, Mark, that he was in discussions with the New York Rangers looking for ways to make this work? Not really, because Patrick Kane hasn't told them yet whether he'll waive his no-movement clause. And until he really gives them the green light there's not he's he's I think he's honestly torn he and caves both of them like neither of them really wants to leave their lifelong blackhawks but at the same time they don't really want to stay yeah they're not dumb guys they know that they make ten and a half million dollars and that's not an easy thing to go

24 hours to your general manager. Okay. I'm ready to go now. Trade me. I mean, I, I, I'm baffled by, I don't know the lack of communication between player agent, general manager. Well, I think part of it is that I don't think they were expecting Tara Senko and Horvat to move, you know, a full month out before the deadline. That's not typically how it goes in the NHL. So I think they thought they had more time. And now that the Tara Senko trade happened in Kings, number one, potential choices off the board, all of a sudden there's some urgency here. Now, Kane said the just yesterday, he said that, you know, that he's been talking with Davidson, but they haven't had a formal sit-down to really hash this out.

And I think, honestly, it comes down to the player has all the control here, right? Patrick Kane has total control. He could quadruple this thing where he just says, I'm going to this one team or I'm not going anywhere. So he has all that power. And I really, honestly, genuinely think that Patrick Kane isn't sure what he wants to do. Because remember, he could just stay and then go play the market in, in the summer.

But he also doesn't want to screw over the Blackhawks. He said that the other day, he said, you know, I want to do what's right for both sides. Yeah. So he's in a, he's in an awkward position.

He wants to do right by the Blackhawks, but he also kind of doesn't want to be in this miserable slog of a rebuild. Well, the worst case scenario I think is, is the Tavares example where you go, I don't know, you know, maybe don't trade me. Well, the worst case scenario, I think, is the Tavares example, where you go, I don't know, maybe don't trade me, and then fans are upset when it's all over. Maybe their legacy, well, I shouldn't say maybe,

their legacy is different than Tavares in that they won cups and they're heroes there, and they maybe have a little bit more luxury there. Do you get the sense that fans would be upset if they chose to play out the season it's interesting because like at the beginning of the year it felt so inconceivable that either of them could leave that would be so seismic when it happened but it's been dragging on so long now at this point that people are just like go already and it's not that they don't like patrick or they don't want him to stay but like this like will he or won't he thing it's getting i think

it's getting old for everybody it's's probably old for Patrick Kane himself. Like, you know, at some point you have to make a decision and that this has been talked about. It feels like such an inevitability now that I don't think anyone's going to begrudge him. Patrick Kane is pretty unimpeachable in Chicago among the fan base. He is the greatest black Hawk that ever lived probably. And it's, you know, he gets a long leash for a good reason, but at the same time, you know, you're talking about potentially a first-round pick coming back.

You know, the Hawks need as many of those as they can get. So, you know, the fans want to get something out of him. They don't want him to leave on his own. But it's not like they're going to turn on him. If he's still here on March 4th, they're not going to boo him. They're going to be glad they get, you know, X amount of home games left to cheer him on and they'll get a proper chance to say farewell.

It's not the end of the world if he doesn't go. hawks have four first round picks in the next two years including what's probably going to be a top five one this year they're not hurting and hurting in that regard so the fans are not going to turn on patrick kane over this we're talking to mike uh mark lazarus uh senior writer the athletic covering the chicago blackhawks we We are talking Kane and Taves. As far as health is concerned, we did hear a comment from Pat Kane downplaying that it's not as bad as it's being made out to be.

What have you seen over this season in terms of Pat Kane's health? Could it be a factor in some teams maybe not being as aggressive as we'd think otherwise? Oh, I think it's 100% a factor. I think that's why the Rangers were quick to get Tarasenko over him. I think it matters a lot. I don't know if it's actually a big deal or not, but the fear of it, the concern over

it certainly is affecting the trade market right now. Here's the thing. Kane's been dealing with this for a couple of years now, going back to the COVID season. He had 92 points last year. So, I mean, he is still capable of scoring with or without the nagging hip injury. This year, he's just – I mean, look who he's playing with. I mean, the Blackhawks' number one center the last week has been Jason Dickinson,

a nice, good, solid player. He's not Patrick Kane's level. I don't know what you expect from him, how he's supposed to produce with the guys he's playing with. It's just not a realistic thing when he's got Max Domi, Andreas Nathanael, when these are the best guys he's got to play with. So there are days where it looks like Patrick Kane is hurting. I'm not going to lie. There are days where it looks like there's a problem there.

But there's also days where he looks like himself. So I think this is something he's dealing with. He's saying that it's not as big a deal as people think, that it feels pretty good these days, actually, but it's there. It's an issue, and he's 34 years old. Is it going to require surgery at some point? We don't know that. So it's certainly a concern in other teams' mind

when they're talking about giving up a first-round pick in a draft that everybody wants a first-round pick in. Laz, over the course of their careers with Kane and Taves, they've been lumped in as I just did. Kane and Taves or Taves and Kane or however you want to phrase it, contracts, you name it. Yet leading up to this trade deadline, it feels like we're all talking about Patrick Kane all the time.

Is that because of the disparity in their ability at this point in their careers? Or is it just because it's less likely that Taves wants to go? I think it's a little of both. I mean, Jonathan Taves is not what he was in 2013, 2014, when he was pretty much the second-best player in the world behind Sidney Crosby. Yeah, you know, he's not been the same since he came back from his year off

when he had a COVID-related illness. But he's got 14 goals this year. He leads the league at face-off percentage. He's still a pretty good player, and he'd be a dynamite third-line center on a team like Colorado, something like that. I get the sense that Taves is leaning towards staying. He just seems more, you know,

Kane is talking so openly about, oh, I was thinking about the Rangers. Taves, it's always more vague. And being the captain of the Chicago Blackhawks means an awful lot to Jonathan Taves. And I'm not convinced that he wants to go and just be some guy on some other team's playoff run would you resign there? it's possible

I don't know if the Blackhawks want either of them to resign it seems like Kyle Davidson is pretty adamant about moving on completely from the cup era but Jonathan Tate he's a good captain obviously he's great with young players he's been a really positive influence on the team this year. You could sign him for two years at like a $3 million cap hit.

Why wouldn't you do that? I think it's a no brainer. If he wants to come back, you know, if he says he wants to come back, Kyle Davidson's not going to be allowed to let him walk. The fans wouldn't stand for it. Right. Are we forgetting there's other players on the Chicago Blackhawks in terms of not having that star power, but certainly could be some assets for Davidson to move? And if so, who stands out for you?

Everyone must go. It is a going out of business sale. Seth Jones? Who is Sam Lafferty? There is no untouchable on this roster. I mean, if you could trade Alex to bring it and Kirby docked and there is no, and Patrick Kane and Jonathan Dave, there are no untouchable. So, you know, they,

they signed Max Domi and Andrea to fantasy you in order to flip them. That was the whole point. So they're certainly available to a team that wants to next. Domi's been very good this year. So he's an option. Jake McCabe has two years left on his contract. The Blackhawks aren't eager to trade them. They like him. He's been their best defenseman this year. So he's an option. Jake McCabe has two years left on his contract. The Blackhawks aren't eager to trade him. They like him. He's been their best defenseman this year. But if someone comes and offers a big deal because they can retain salary, you can have Jake

McCabe for two years at $2 million a year for the next two years. That might be worth a first rounder. Kyle Davidson will make that trade. Seth Jones, I don't see how you can move that contract. He's in the first year of an eight-year $76 million deal. He's got a full no-movement clause. And I don't think the Hawks want to retain $4.75 million for seven more years. That's a lot of dead money. That doesn't seem realistic. I think Seth Jones is here to

stay. But literally everybody else, Connor Murphy, he could be had. You know, God, literally anybody on this roster. If Alex Staloc were healthy right now, he was playing great. He would have been an interesting piece for a contender that needs some, you know, depth at goaltending. There is nobody on this roster that can't be had.

So, you know, like if you're on the Blackhawks and you're playing the rest of the season out here, is everyone kind of just playing for their own careers to show, you know, what they can do that they want to be a part of it. Do we have any bones of the next black Hawks era in place? Yeah, but they're all in like juniors and in the minor leagues right now, Lucas Reichel and Rockford.

It's Kevin Korchinski out in Seattle. I mean, you look at this roster right now and there are maybe two guys that'll still be here at the other side of it. It's going to be Seth Jones and maybe Philip Kersh. It was a nice piece. and he's 23 years old. Everybody else, I would be surprised if they're still here four or five years from now when this team is thinking it's going to be good again.

It's just this is a placeholder team. All their best prospects are either in juniors or they kept them in Rockford because they didn't want to expose them to this much losing early in their career. They rushed Kirby Dock. It didn't work out. They rushed Adam Boquist. It didn't work out. They are being hyper patient. Lucas Reichel is absolutely NHL ready. He was the number one pick a few years ago. He came up, he looks great. He is NHL ready. They don't want him here. He might come up after the trade. But they, but that's the problem. They don't want to, they don't want to win. That's part of it. They're trying to lose here. This is a tank season. This is the most overt tank season we've seen

since the McDavid year. Which leads me to my next question. How do they beat the Leafs tonight? Sammy's going to like this one. So with a generational talent like Conor Bedard out there, has Peter Mrazik been

everything that they had hoped for? Oh, poor Peter. You know, he's been fine. Goaltending really has not been the Blackhawks' issue this year. Mrazik's had some really nice games. You know, yeah, they got him because he's a veteran who could just man the net, and it doesn't matter if he's good or not. Everybody understands that.

But I know that he's not the most popular man in Toronto, but he's been perfectly adequate for the Blackhawks. Yeah, he's a likable guy. He hasn't screwed up their lottery pick. So if they were to get Bedard... Alex Stalob was messing things up. Alex Stalob was one of the best goalies in the league when he was healthy. Yeah, that's not helping.

The Bedard thing's fascinating. You know, we've talked about, a lot of people talk about where they would like to see Bedard go in the league. Do you think the league would like to see him back in Chicago and, you know, kind of like a Pittsburgh thing. You go to Lemieux to Crosby and hand the torch to Bedard,

or is it better for the league to see this kid go to Columbus or Arizona or somewhere dying for a star? No, I think, I think the league would love for him to be in Chicago. No, no hockey fan outside of Chicago wants to see Conor Bedard in Chicago, but the league desperately wants, I mean, Chicago is, you knowor Bedard in Chicago, but the league desperately wants.

I mean, Chicago is, you know, it's a moneymaker for the league. And even in this terrible season, they're still selling 19,000 tickets game. It's important to the league that Chicago be good. So I think that the league, if they're going to free some ping pong balls, they're going to have a Blackhawks logo on them. My big conspiracy theory is that the Coyotes are locked into the number four pick because Mitch Kopp would be coming over just when their new arena opens. So that's my conspiracy theory,

is that they're going to engineer Mitch Koff to Arizona. I love it. So let me get this straight. If we would have said maybe three years ago that there would be this type of fire sale and you'd be watching your franchise franchise faces uh almost pushed out the door would you have envisioned 19 000 people still coming to games you know it's been kind of like the black hawks were braced for it to be so much worse than this and coming into the year they needed about

14 000 fans a game for this not to be a financial disaster for them it's been way better than anyone could have thought. Like people, you know, like to call the Blackhawks fans bandwagon fans. Cause a lot of them came aboard in late two thousands when Kane and Taze were just coming through. They're not bandwagon fans. They're hardcore fans that are, you know, deep into the prospect pools. Now, like this is, this is a durable, hearty fan base that, you know,

Bill Wurtz did his best to destroy the Blackhawks fan base. And for about 10, 15 years there, it was pretty bleak. But if you're still here after the last two years and the last six years on the ice, then you're clearly here to stay. Well, that's, first of all, that's great news for such a strong original six market. But I mean, I'm, I really surprises me because I do remember it in the early two thousands when it got really ugly, but I'm, they're okay for this. You have to realize like,

you know, during the cup years, it was so expensive to get in the building that for the last couple of years, all you're getting new fans in the building that can afford it now. Cause it's, you know, you can get a $15 ticket on the secondary market.

So you're, you're reaching people who just, just want to experience a Blackhawks game that couldn't for so long. I don't know how long that'll last for, but it's working. You know Leaf fans are pissed off to hear you say that. You can't get a cup of coffee for $15 at a Leafs game. Where's our $15 ticket?

If you lose for the next six years, you might too have $15 tickets. How has it been, Laz, the evolution? Because you've been there for the climb and the descent of greatness and a great run of, I don't know how many years you'd call it, eight, nine, ten years. You know, how has it been? What's the difference in covering the team as you go back into one of these sort of, I don't know, valleys?

Well, my first year was the lockout season when they won the cup in 2013. So I joined the beat and they immediately went 21 Oh and three and then won the cup. So I didn't get to see the climb. I got there at the peak of the mountain, you know, conference final in 2014 and another cup in 15. It's, it's been interesting. It's been a long, slow, but precipitous decline. And it's kind of sad to see where it's at. I mean, this team was so good and just absolutely owned the city and own the league. And it's, it's the fact that they're just now bottoming out. Like they just, they treaded water for so long, the last four or five years that this

should have happened years ago, right? You could have rebuilt this and kept cane and tase and had them during that peak. But instead you kind of wasted their prime years and now you're doing this too late. Well, that's, I was going to ask you, sorry to interrupt. I'm just going to ask, should they have pulled the plug earlier on these guys and just moved on from the cup years? Or, you know, they hung on for a while here and it's looking ugly. Yeah, that's absolutely. But it's easy to say that in hindsight, right? But I mean, the fact is they won three Stanley Cups. You can't complain about that, right?

You can't. But the fact is their window should have been so much. They could have been like Boston where they're just contenders every single year, except they would have had multiple cups to it too. I mean, you could have had a fourth cup. You could have, who knows? Or at the very least, you could have been great still.

And they just mismanaged the roster really badly in those last few years of Stan Bowman's tenure. The Jeremy Colleton era did not go well. And then, you know, they tried to rebuild in the COVID season, and then they short-circuited. And they were more against the future for Seth Jones. And they just put themselves in such a bad position now that Kyle Davidson has a lot of digging to do before he can start climbing back out. Just one final one for me. Mark is uh you just mentioned him kyle davidson uh much like jerry colligan a young guy not much experience how much is this uh kane taves situation gonna uh matter to him uh in the future in terms of maybe setting him up long-term here?

Yeah, it's a big deal. I mean, right, he's done good work so far. You know, he's turned, you know, some lemons into lemonade with, you know, turning Alex Nylander into Sam Lafferty, turning Riley Stillman into Dickinson, who's been really good. He's shown a knack for making savvy, smart moves. You know, yeah, he traded Brandon Hagel, but he got Taylor Radish, who's like a 15-go goal scorer already and two first round picks out of it. So if he can maximize his value on cane and potentially tase and some of these other guys, you know,

the Hawks are set up pretty well. They've got Kevin Kortchinsky. They've got Frank Naysar. They've got Lucas Reichel, Alex plastic. They have young guys ready to come up and they've got all these first and second round picks in the next couple of years in theory, they're in good shape. It's just going to take a long time to get there. Hey, Mark, really appreciate your work for us, man, covering the Chicago Blackhawks as they get set to play the Toronto Maple Leafs. Thanks for doing this, Mark. You got it.

Anytime. Appreciate it. Thanks. Mark Lazarus from The Athletic covering the Chicago Blackhawks. Do you think if they got Bedard, they would trade some of those assets and try to get better sooner? Or do you think they'd just let these young guys come along? Yeah, you don't rush it.

Listen, at the end of the day, Crosby, Mario, Eric Lindros, you don't know until you hope that they can come in and be dominant, and some of them have coming in and scoring 60, 70 points as an 18-year-old. But I don't think it would cause the Chicago Blackhawks to all of a sudden stick their foot on the pedal. Right. Now, interesting, you you know when we talked about where the vision of the league would be or tnt or espn like they don't want them to go to arizona they don't they want

some people think they do no absolutely not they They want them. Look at all the outdoor games. Look at every... It's Chicago, it's Boston, it's New York. Those are the numbers. That's where the stars... It's Chicago, it's Boston, and it's New York. It's Pittsburgh because of Sid. Right.

It's not because of Pittsburgh. But you attack those numbers in america with stars that's what u.s television wants give me conor bedard on the blackhawks the more we talk about this the more i'm certain it's going to accidentally happen I'm still team CBJ. Yeah, like I want that for like fairness. For Portsline. Yeah, for Portsline. But like the strength of the NHL is important too, and Chicago and Philly is still pretty appealing. Sid scored 102 points when he was 18 years old.

Now, is that good? Yes. 102. When he's 18. I know, it's's dumb he played on lemieux's team they literally handed him the kind of nervous for him next year that if he doesn't score 90 or 100 points wherever he is that somehow that'll oh but yeah that that'll feel like uh he's he may be letting people down do you have any idea what Sid has this year for points? I want to say 68. Close.

He's 10th in NHL scoring, right? I'm going to nip it on the heels of Jack Hughes of 65 in 53 games. All right. I'm not bad. I mean, pouring pucks in the net still. He's got 25 snipes. Going to finish the year with 35 you know 35 and 90 some points or something you know no big deal he is uh he's got 541 goals in his career

933 assists so he'll probably be up over 600 goals by the end of what about by it's all said and done over a thousand assists by the time it's all said and done. Over 1,000 assists by the time it's all said and done. Which I think... Talk about living up to the hype. Oh, my God. Yeah. Well, LeBron's been getting all that love lately. Crosby deserves a lot of love for coming in with that sort of... Sid isn't a corny egomaniac, so it's a big difference.

Love LeBron. I love LeBron, too. No, no, he's those things. He's corny and an ecumaniac. Speaking of American television, you catch the story about the Valley Regional Sports. Yeah, I was going to ask Panger about that, but I didn't want to like,

I don't know if that was too close to the, I don't know. Basically, they own about 42 pro sports regional stations or coverage. And they had a balloon payment of about $140 million interest payment and didn't make it. Yeah. I'm like, sometimes I forget to pay the visa.

140 schmil. That one might get your attention. I get nervous when I miss the visa bill. How do you miss that balloon payment? Well, actually, i did read about that i guess human error like the like the coyotes last year human when they missed the payment on their rank that's right like oh human error yeah it was human error didn't go through bad wi-fi connection when i tried to make the payment but i saw that they bought all those regional rights at once for like 10.6 billion by borrowing 8.6 billion which seems like a large chunk so that was pure interest that they owed on the 8.6 billion that they borrowed so wow no business

guy i would borrow 20 from you guys for lunch like i don't think it will affect anybody watching this season, but I think next year could change. Well, it hurts franchises who are expecting payments, it sounded like. My understanding is that the teams get some payments from the network for that, and the Coyotes can't go without too many payments that are coming in, or haven't been able to in the past anyway. All right, we're going to tee up Toronto and Chicago. Sammy, what do we want to do? We want to take a quick break here?

You want to take a break? I think we break and then we come in and just hit the Leafs to the buzzer. And we got plenty of Kippers Clippers to get to. Plus I'm freezing and I need to turn it and warm it up. That's reason enough to go to break. Okay, we'll take this breather to get Justin's temperature. Get some chamomile in a blanket.

In the meantime, give us a thumbs up for Darren Pang. If you haven't already, give us a rating and review. We'd love to hear from you. Almost 1,300 watching today on YouTube. Awesome. I don't know what the hell got into people before. What's going on? It's only getting better.

Great deadline. Closing in on the Stanley Cup playoffs yet again. Love this time of year. All right. We're back after these words. Real Kipper and Bourne. Breaking down the top stories in the NHL every day. The Jeff Marriott Show.

Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, plenty to still get through when it comes to the Toronto Maple Leafs playing the Chicago Blackhawks. Blackhawks are 0-7-1 in the second half of back-to-backs. If the Leafs drop this one, I think the show is show is canceled buddy this is the exact one they drop we might have 2 000 viewers tomorrow at least is this one what was the one show we had just yeah we had 2 000 it was after they lost to anaheim oh yeah they're like leafs talk like 25 000 views People love crisis. I've played here. I grew up here.

I'll never understand that. It's the passion. It's the true passion. We have more listeners or viewers when they stink than when they do well. Well, but what's there to say when they do well? That was pretty good, eh? Well, no. There's nothing to break down.

They did it right. Not to get too inside baseball here, but I think a underachieving team that's supposed to be good and is playing poorly is the perfect sports talk radio team. It's like the expectations are high. You're under expectations. And people want to know why. And they want blood because they're pissed off because they're the under the the expectations right yeah so i mean look at vancouver vancouver this year like all their podcast this is everybody's frothing at the mouth all they care about is getting more contact swinging expectations if they're low and you're

hot yes people like it but when you're right in line with the expectations that year like gordon stelic did Leafs postgame every game after the 2015 season where they were just, like, trying to be bad with Babcock. Like, what the hell did they talk about? I don't know. Oh, my God. Anyways.

William Nylander still. Yeah. All right. We've heard different versions of Sheldon Keefe since the loss against Columbus Saturday night. We got a very short Sheldon Keefe on Monday. Tuesday, he was a little longer. Where do we go with Sheldon today?

Let's find out on what he expects tonight. Yeah, I mean, it's obvious. I mean, anytime you lay an egg, you want to come back and have a good effort. But really, our focus is more like Friday, less like Saturday. You know, we did a good job on Friday on the road. It was disappointing to come back and have two periods like we did to let the game get away on us here after taking control of the game in the first period. But, yeah, I mean, Friday's recipe was pretty good.

And we're going to look to get that get back to that still didn't still not happy with saturday huh no oh hasn't moved on i'm really happy how pissed off he still is about that to be honest with you but do we need to listen to more clips before i share your theory from pre-show okay yeah and you know um i mean we've got different ones but since we are on the topic of sheldon keith and how hard or soft he was on the guys this week i think this one kind of says it all because uh this one came from our luke fox didn't it yeah all the good questions all the tough questions come from luke fox and uh he talked to Keith on basically what kind of week it's been for him, getting the guys ready.

There's no question that they know. It allows you to, both in the fact that there's a little bit of a break in the schedule here, you know, since we played that game, allows that in itself, allows some time for reflection, time for discussions and meetings with individuals and with the team collectively. But our guys know. They felt it the other night too.

They weren't happy with it. But we'd like to be, rather than being unhappy after the fact, we want to be able to address and fix things while they're happening. That's what good teams do. And we weren't able to do that the other night. Obviously, we got a big power play goal to start the third period, and you thought, okay, we'll be okay here now, and then it wasn't enough from there.

But just in terms of our individual process, habits, details, all those types of things, when that slips, it's a good chance to get the team refocused and expect better tonight. All right, there you have it. I mean, I'm not in the room there. I've not spoken to anybody directly about what kind of week it's been, but those kind of weeks can go two ways for players.

And we just listened to Darren Pang. He's been around a long time. Didn't really give too much thought into a Saturday night loss to Columbus. Other than that, it's still off the all-star break. And maybe we're still at the tail end of the dog days of winter. And they kind of lost their focus. Or was it one of those weeks building up to tonight, JB, where Sheldon's all over them, meetings, video?

That's the one. And you know some players are like, oh, my God, would this guy just shut off already? Yeah, we've had eight meetings since the last game. Enough, enough. Is there a danger of that happening? Yeah, there is, but I don't think you're in a position to care if you're the coaching staff it's like you know this has to get cleaned up we're now down to what is it 27 games i am interested in in one of the things he said about

individual meetings we've been able to have some individual meetings throughout the year you play a game you travel you're on the road like you'll notice habits of a player slip and you don't have time to sit down with them and go through the video you're on to the next place and on to the next team meeting and you know this will will have been a real time for them to pull guys aside and say hey justin hall you were huge for us when everyone was out but here's what's happened the last five games. And here's why you're sitting down, you know, Wayne, here's what I'm curious to know.

Who do you think that they would be talking to? Like if you have individual meetings with guys, you know, I don't even know. I, you mentioned Justin Hall. Yeah. Sandin.

I wouldn't even want to be, uh, and Engvall this week. Right. In those meetings. For sure. You were just benched last game. Here's your habits. That's a great one. 15 minutes? Yeah.

Yeah. Right? You know Keith pulled him in. It was like, here's why. Here's our expectations of you. So it's a little bit, I think they call it in that coaching office, a tightening. Give him a little tightening. Tighten him up. If I can share my pre-show theory here. Yes, we're ready for it.

I think he probably is harping on that loss and did piss him off in the moment and we heard him after the game when he was giving us his two second clips a tort style but there's probably a part of him that liked that loss because in the back of his mind he knows i can push these guys so much harder now that i would have been able to if they just had a beat columbus six cob like it's so much more of a learning experience for these guys and he shouldn't be learning still because they do this all the time but like i'm sure part of him liked them losing that game so he could push harder it is hard to get players attention when their habits are slipping and you win anyway they don't perform well and they outscore their problems and you go in and you say here's what I'm seeing.

And they go, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're just going to keep winning. Thanks, bud. So there is some weight to Sam's theory that it's like, you know, hey, like we can lose to Columbus on any given night when we play like that. So how are we going to be against the Bruins in game one, in game five, in game seven? And it'd be easier to give them the benefit of the doubt if they played

poorly against like even an average team. But we know the numbers about facing bottom eight teams right like five wins 13 tries five wins 13 tries do you want the lightnings record is in those games uh no but i'm excited to hear 20 they are 13 0 in one for a 964 winning percentage plus 32 goal differential and the bruins are 11 and1 for a plus 32 goal differential. The least goal differential in those games is plus 4. Useful or useless? Extremely useful. What does that tell us?

I mean, I don't know if you've looked at the standings today, but there's a certain other blue and white team that has hopped the least in points percentage. Just before we go into that, Sammy, just one more for me. And it kind of touches on what you're saying and i i wouldn't have stopped at uh justin hall i would have i would have looked at the chicago blackhawks tonight and i would have pulled somebody else out to me to me it's sandy to me it's sandy oh i see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sandin, Engvall. Take two or three of them. Don't take one.

I totally agree with that. Like, okay, you know what? Hey, Engvall, you have a seed up there, and I'm bringing in Hunt. The only reason I would think that maybe you wouldn't want to do it is because you had to sit in the loss for four days. So if those guys are on the imaginary whatever their fifth line is for three practices or whatever that's a long time to send that message it's not like you play a day later and you send a message for a game and you're right back at it it's a pretty long time to you know

have guys kicking around the fifth line and the seventh or the fourth pair all right you touched on it caught a good portion not all of it of tampa bay last night against colorado yeah i was watching islanders ottawa sammy watched the other half of that game and then uh it also dawned on me that uh tampa bay hasn't been the best team on the road, but they're really, really good at home. Yeah. Only the Boston Bruins better. And all of a sudden, the Leafs don't have game seven any longer. 27 games at home. The Lightning have lost four.

Not a good time to lose home ice advantage no no it's not good giver sammy i watched good i you know i watched first half of that game before my eyes started to get a little bit heavy but i had the thought that they may be better this year tampa may be better than last year points Points a year better. Colton is a... Hagel's really taking strides. And, like, Colton is exactly what the Leafs need in the bottom six. Goes the right direction,

takes the puck to the front of the net, gritty, hits. Probably going to score 20. I don't even know where he's at, but he's got upside. Hagel, like you said, has gone to another level. You know, like, Sergachev looked unbelievable last night. Hedman to another level. You know, like, Sergeyev looked unbelievable last night. Hedman, still great.

You know, and... I just, I think the Leafs are good. But I just don't think they could beat them. Oh, goodness me. I get the Leafs were close last year against Tampa, but can you remember that it was close without Braden Point? Yes, I can. Well, yeah, he was kind of limping around.

He really looked like he was fast last night. Yeah. And happy and healthy. Don't know what it's going to look like in six weeks from now. But man, oh man. Again, you're talking about a Toronto Maple Leaf team that they look at home records and the two best teams in the league,

the Boston Bruins and Tampa Bay. 22-2-3 are the Boston Bruins. As Sammy said, 21-4-2 at home for Tampa Bay. And those are the first two teams you got to play. Yeah, but Vasilevsky is only a 920 save percentage right now in this season and 40 starts. 40 starts. 40 starts for Vasilevsky.

They had no chance. It was like, literally looked like a brick wall. Looked like the school wall that I used to hit the tennis ball against when I was like in grade four. All right, so what are we doing here? Big enough Tampa Bay here. What is the point? I don't have a point, Borny.

We don't. We know. We're just a little discouraged today. What's a little down off of Columbus Laws? I'm incredibly worried. Yeah. That, you know, like if the Leafs don't do something to the bottom six or out of defense or like it could be less than seven games this time here's my takeaway when i go down the tampa bay lightning

and just it's name after name of guys who can do something you know they're hegel calorn paul colton and then you get down into it and sorelli but it's also uh maroon and it's you know bogosian and guys that have a clear they do something and that has been a complaint on this show about the bottom six is like the old what would you say you do here uh finding guys who have a purpose whether it's physicality or killing penalties or whatever so to me pat kane's not the answer here the bottom six need guys who have a purpose. And, you know, Barberchev can provide some offense in the bottom six and some physical play, sure.

Maybe that becomes more of a priority than a guy like Kane. All right, let's go to Sheldon Keefe on keeping the guys motivated. Because there's a lot of hockey here still to be played before we get to any stage against Tampa Bay and Boston. Let's just pick up on Sheldon Keefe talking about what he needs to do to keep the guys on track. I think there's a few things there. I think it's keeping the focus on the daily process of improving

and having our game ready and not looking too far down the road. I mean, we know what we're building towards and working towards, but we need to continue to build and work towards that, not just wait for it to come. So that's really what it is for me, is just focusing on our daily process. And obviously he got away on us the other day, so it's a really good opportunity for us to lean in on the guys

and teach and reinforce what we want to be about as a team. And then you get another game here tonight. Process, process, process. But we just talked about, I think now that the motivation is what we were just talking about look at the standings fellas we had a what what were they up six seven point cushion on tampa when they had that hot stretch you say hey fellas here are the standings look at their home record look at the way they're playing they're only 14 and 12 on the road by by the way. Tampa? Yeah. So they are not as good on the road.

They are really damn good at home. You guys have to figure this out. Play better. We're playing crappy teams. Time to accumulate some points here, fellas. You know, boring thing to say here, but the best the Leafs have looked this season was when they had the D injuries,

Muzzin goes down, Riley's out, even Brody out for a period, and it became team defense as a priority, right? The whole team... It just seemed like... It slipped from there. You would have been lucky to get four quality shots in the slot. Couldn't get a sniff against them.

Yeah. Nothing. They were above, above, above, and, you know, it's definitely slipped. Is that just mid-season? Since when? I don't know, New Year's Eve? Honestly, since Morgan Riley came back into the lineup. Yeah, I know. And I don't know, New Year's Eve? Honestly, since Morgan Raleigh came back into the lineup. Yeah, I know.

And I don't want, like, listen. I'm not saying it is because of, but that is a fair demarcation point. It really feels like, what was that first game back that he came? It wasn't against, oh yeah, it was against Phoenix. Yeah, or Arizona. He tossed a Pete's up the middle and they lost. I don't know. I'm not trying.

I don't want to turn this into a Morgan. No, no, no, no, no, no. We're not. It's just, it just, there's something to be said about it, Sammy, that it, he changes the dynamic or where maybe guys are slotted. I just, just, it's a, it's a different rhythm with him back there back there no doubt and we've seen him at his best we've seen him good we've seen the team thrive when morgan's morgan yeah so why hasn't that level been reached by now yeah he hasn't found his game yet for me you know where he's breaking the puck up the ice and confident and looks fast and shooting it he hasn't found that yet one thing i do want you mentioned him like where guys are

slotted is there any scenario with who they add for this decor coming in in your mind where rasmus sandin is in the lineup in game one for the toronto maple leafs like every way you know barring injury every way that i shake out who they add what happens so i he seems like he can't get the puck out against the hard four check well that's whenever i watch the games that's what he can't do and so the problem is and you may have seen some of the same commentary that i've seen on twitter recently but i've also thought about is like it's a bit of a travis dermot thing here where you've got a guy on the third pair who doesn't kill penalties and he doesn't have offensive upside right he didn't light it up on the power play when he had his chance he has good numbers when he's sheltered and on the third pair

but you just don't trust that he's going to be a great defender either so you know we talk about what you're going to do here it's hard for me to see Sandin in assuming they add somebody and I am saying all this assuming they're adding somebody yeah I totally agree there's no question as we've stated many times the lily pad

has leaped sure he loves that nice name he's been the lily pad as long as we've discussed Creeped. Sure he loves that name. What? He's been the little lily pad as long as we've discussed him. I know. I always laugh at that name. Anyways. It's a playoff his name.

That's it. Yeah, okay. But yeah, no, it's so anyway, keep that in mind with Sandin. Can he play his way into the lineup? Can he play his way into higher prominence? Does a trade affect that? Don't you agree with me, though, on Sandin? It's like the more the guys lean on him, he can't get it going north.

Yeah. It really feels like he gets balled. Hard projects are tough for him. And there's times when he could step up, and I don't know who he dropped two nights ago. He has great hit timing. In front of the Leaf bench. He that's right yeah and it kind of you can see the whole bench going wow we like that yeah that's kind of cool can you do that again uh no you guys saw him at the blue and white thing the other night or whatever like he's not a big person no he's not so you could have

great timing and you can be physical yeah but it's tough when you're... But it's on your terms. Yeah, it's tough when you're, you know, at Toyota Yaris and not a, I don't know, Ford Explorer. When he caught the, I forget who it was, was it Kent Johnson he caught? Yeah, it was. And then they flashed to the bench and TJ Brody's there and he just had that big, stupid

toothless grin on his face. Like, he's just like, oh my god, I'm so happy that happened. Anyways. That's fun. Yeah. All right, we got more clips. I think we got a couple more.

All right. We'll go back to Sheldon talking about Pat Kane. Yeah, the idea of not the trade Kane, but what they defending Kane, right? Yep. Just how much you have to be aware, take away his time and space and take away his options. That's just really important.

I mean, he's a vision and a skill, and the ability to control a game is better than anybody, really, in terms of how he can slow the game down, speed the game up when he wants to, and find people. He's an exciting player to watch that way, but he's certainly not one we want to watch. We need to be able to get on top of him quick. So you asked me something earlier in the show about maybe what kind of feel he would have

as in showcasing himself, and of course with three Stanley Cups and the greatest Chicago Blackhawk in history, just nothing to prove there. But he's not a dumb guy either. He knows a nice show tonight would get out quicker out of the city of Toronto than anywhere else on the planet. Kane scores three tonight, boys.

It's our whole show tomorrow. Oh, you know it. He knows it. He just, he knows it. And not that it would make him lean one way or another but he's a proud guy and there's nothing more than he would that then he would like is to put on a good show on the biggest stage yeah in hockey yeah i really am confident i might even put some of my hard-earned dollars on a patrick game goal tonight well you know if for a guy who's been a year and a half two years of nothing to play for you know there's a

bit of purpose right now as he plays towards the deadline to show people he's healthy toronto's one of the team that may have interest we all know he makes ungodly sums of money so it's hard but you can see him being like okay the rangers are over if i want to go i need to be desirable you're right, Sammy. I would bet on a solid performance from him tonight. Do we have a clip of the Leaf power play that Sheldon went to? Do you want to listen to it? I do.

Let's have it. Holy Jesus. So that's an overall theme for us is just to really have an increase in the pace and the consistency in which the puck arrives to the net. So that's all the players on the ice buying into that. And I think we have seen that for some time now. It did so happen that, you know, there's a little bit of improvising the other night with Willie to Mitch and then to Morgan. But I think through the process of attacking the net consistently,

we'll get more of those types of plays that are broken that we can improvise on. So he just thinks they're too perimeter. Yes, I love attack the net with consistency. Not getting anything through. We've got to get something through. Because it's when you get a team scrambling that the elite talent of mitch marner and matthews and those guys can really do their damage right you get someone on their heels slightly out of position when they're in their structure and you're just passing around trying one-timers there's just

nothing uh scarier in the playoffs than a hot power play against you. Yeah. It just changes everything. Yeah. The way you think, hit, how you think the officials look at you, what you can get away with, what you can't. It's just such a big dynamic. Yeah.

I'll give you the power play percentages of the last, four of the last five cup champions. Last year,'s 33 percent in the playoffs on the in the playoffs oh my god last year before that tampa bay 32 percent in the playoffs the year before that they're 23 percent in the playoffs then the blues win a cup with a crummy power play i think it was in the teens and then the year before that was the Capitals at almost 30% in the playoffs. Got to have it. I mean, you don't get many chances at five on five. There's no room. It's one of the chances you have to use your elite talent,

which the Leafs have in spades. Well, and just for your homework tonight, go find out the last few years of the Leafs power play in the last few months of the regular season and into their first rounds that they've lost. Yeah, they're in the teens and below. It's a disaster. Yeah, the first half, they're like 30-some percent. The second half, they're like 18 percent.

And then playoffs, they're like 14 percent. With the same $40 million players. Yeah. Well, the thing he said in that clip that stuck out to me the most, and it's the thing that I notice most when I watch him play, is the pace line. On the power play. On the power play.

Yeah. I feel like they get really a little bit lackadaisical. Like it's almost like there's too many good guys out there, and they're like, we'll eventually find one. Well, eventually, the puck will eventually land in a good spot for us, and it doesn't seem that they're snapping it around as fast as a lot of other ones do. Do you agree with that?

I do. It's tough because they're a top five power play by percentage, but it's slipped since Christmas. I do believe that that's where Morgan has to get better at the top. Yeah. To be more decisive, to have better pace, to mask a few more passes. But is that going to happen?

Less tails. Would you want him to hit a few early and make people think he might shoot it? Or is that... I liked his goal that he was not typically in a spot that you've seen him. Right, somewhere else. That's right, moving around.

Exactly. Yeah, good finish. But that's, you know, Sheldon's right. That comes off making them scramble. Do you believe that he can get faster? Yeah, I mean, if you lean on him. They had a few meetings. Yeah.

Well, if you lean on him, you can make him. A few practices this week. We've been watching this for how many years now? At some point, you know, the definition of insanity is trying things over and over and over and expecting different results. Trade for Tyson Berry, Sam. I don't know. No. It didn't work with him either.

No. His shin pads were the end glass was the Tyson Berry story with the Leafs. All right, here we are. A little over two weeks to go to the trade deadline. I wanted to get into this the other day, but we ran out of time. But this was the thought of sitting out players now in the event that they get traded. Trade-related reasons. I get that you don't want to lose an asset this time of year, but if we see some of the better players,

I mean, if a kid and his dad's taking him to a game and maybe his favorite player is Jacob Chikrin, should he not be able to go and watch Jacob Chikrin play? Yeah, you know, it's tough. Tough, you know, in the end, we are an entertainment business. So there's a case to be made that, yeah, he should. But, like, you look at the NBA, they do this, right? They have time off that they just take.

Okay, but not two weeks well and that's it six games so i also think it's it's very dumb to continue to play someone you might get a first and a prospect for when you're trying to lose anyway so i get why teams want to do it i fully support it as a if i were in the front office but yeah if you're the league how do you like watching teams who you say are not tanking not play guys for three weeks yeah three weeks is too long when i saw that tweet was that saturday night they put that out before their game the the trade release related ones with i'm like, it must be getting done tonight. I'm like, oh, my God. If it's that serious, it's getting done tonight.

And the fact that we're still sitting here, you know, three or four days later and nothing's happened, it's kind of weird. If nothing else, I thought it would have been to put pressure on the other teams to make them think it's happening. You know, like, you know, we're this close on a deal. He's sitting out. Give us your final offer. There's a lot of gamesmanship going on right now.

And, you know, what gets out, what's leaked, what's not leaked, what's a tester, public perception. Yeah, there's a lot going on right now. And like I imagine some teams who are up against cap like the leafs want to get as close as they can to the deadline to have the most cap space possible you know so like i imagine okay so you you're close on a chikrin deal you say trade related related reasons you put them in the press box you say to the other teams we're doing it let's see your best offer they say all right here's what we got and then you say okay thanks yeah we'll probably trade them to that team we said we're gonna in two weeks we'll get

back to you yeah and then you kind of have an idea of where they're at although maybe there's some dishonesty there and then that hurts a relationship i don't know we'll keep and then what about coming out of if like, for example, how long, I mean, you know things. How much longer do you think this Chikrin thing is going to drag out? Like, you're having a guy come in who hasn't played in how long? Bill Armstrong's been adamant that, you know, the pieces that he's wanted, it's been well-documented, well-leaked, well-, well reported. Is there a thought that if he doesn't get his grade A blue chip prospect that he doesn't

move him at all? And it's limited, guys. It's still limited in terms of who can do what and the willingness to be all in. And it's not a strong market in a flat cap and at 4.6 there's a premium on jacob chip chikrin it's not jacob chikrin just the player it's jacob chikrin the 4.6 million dollar player right same as brandon hagel for two more years we're not just trading the player we're trading a value contract that's right yeah and not everybody uh can find a

player like this and fit it in yeah for two more years so if he's stubborn enough if bill armstrong stubborn enough and he has he has got a bit of a reputation now, I'll tell you that, as a guy that a lot of general managers in a perfect world would not have the patience to go through a process. Except Kyle Dubas, of course. Kyle's had some good luck with him. But there's others that say he's tough to talk to. Really? And there's a level of frustration sometimes with him.

That's interesting. Yeah. All I know is I saw him and his staff go to the draft all dressed the same. Really? Yeah. And I was like, he's different. Were they wearing Hawaiian shirts or were they wearing? No, they were all wearing the same matching.

Was it a blue suit or something like that? Like they all dressed exactly the same. And it was like, I get showing cohesion cohesion but he's clearly a different type of guy but if he gets what he wants it's a game changer for him the organization the next three five seven ten years and that's what you you hold out he wants a home run with jacob chickering and his contract you crouse too I would assume that everybody's got a price now. Yeah. Okay.

Now the other thing too is we're going to watch between now and the trade deadline. How many guys go on waivers, the back and forth? Hey, all of a sudden, who's on IR? Who's on long-term IR? Oh my goodness. There's a $5, $6 million contract out of nowhere. Bad back, bad knee.

Yeah, a bunch of people about to get hurt. A bunch of people are about to get hurt. Which is, my friend Sam McKee would say, sickly, Gary. Sickly. Sick calf, you know? Great job. I'm trying to bury it. One thing that I saw, one random, I think it was Dave Pagnotta or Pagnotta from, I don't know how to say it one thing that i saw one random um i think it's dave uh peg

nauta or penyota from i don't know how to say it from the fourth period mentioned the mackenzie wieger that contract could potentially get traded well not contract that player could potentially get traded before his no move activates on july 1st um he mentioned ottawa as a potential partner who would have to get rid of Zaitsev. But, you know, I am curious to see what the Flames do here because this team is killing me. Like, they're better than this, aren't they? Going to miss the playoffs after making the massive moves they made? How about Jonathan Huberto?

You know who he's on pace for? 58 points. Yeah. After 100 and some points. There are some nights I'm not sure he's playing 15 minutes. There's some nights I'm not sure he's playing. Period. End of sentence.

You know, when you watch the games, it's, yeah, they need way more from him. They need Markstrom better. Sounds like Sutter's pretty hard on old Marky. He needs to get his head right. Be kind of scary to think that you'd have to think about making major moves when you've made major moves. Yeah, you just replaced limbs on the team,

and now you're going to replace a heart or something. I don't know. Wow. Okay, give me a score tonight. Does Chicago score? Bachman-Turner overdrive. Taking care of business for the Leafs tonight. 5-1. Yo, you give them

one because Chicago has played 19 games with one goal or less. The worst in the league. You're giving them one win. I'm shooting my shot here. I'm going 9-1 Leafs. Austin, how many does Austin have

on his schedule to play tonight? He gets five. To get back on pace in the Rocket Richard. I'm betting on the Blackhawks now. Okay, our thanks to Darren Spanky Pang for coming in in studio. That was fantastic.

Mark Lazarus from the Athletic joining us, giving us a good rundown of the Chicago Blackhawks and what we can expect tonight. All of you watching tonight over, what, 1300 on YouTube. Thanks for joining us. We're back tomorrow.

Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. Real Kipper and Born.