Real Kyper & Bourne - Chasing the All-Star Break

Episode Date: January 26, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee kick off with last night's Leafs' overtime win over the New York Rangers, Ilya Samsonov running away with the starting goalie job, Timothy Liljegren blossoming and perhaps deserving more time on the powerplay, and the All-Star break coming at a good time for the Leafs' stars that look somewhat tired. They are joined by former Stanley Cup winning head coach Barry Trotz (41:33), who discusses his head coaching future, the importance of the player/coach relationship and the challenges for Rich Tocchet in Vancouver. Later, Jamal Mayers of NBC joins the show (1:05:45) to discuss the Leafs' need for toughness, Auston Matthews blocking shots and how the Blackhawks move on after the Toews/Kane era.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Nick Kiprio flying solo today in the studios of Sportsnet as my good friend and star of the Real Kipper and Bourne show, Justin Bourne is via satellite. Or should I just say on location? Really just dad of the year this week, Kipper. I'm really putting in my candidacy here. Going to my son's winter concert. I can't make it if I'm in studio doing it from home.

Winter concert. Yeah, he's six. I think he's got a solo. What is going on? Okay, just what time does the concert start? Five o'clock. Five o'clock. All right.

We're done at 4.55, and I live right by the school. I'll be there to see him hit his solo. Well, good for you. Thanks. Because that's what we do here on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. We put family first. How long into this? Pets.

How long of this winter concert is Bourne going to instantly regret his decision? I'm going to say I got called into the office halfway through. Let me just say that I've got three kids in college right now, okay? And, you know, for all you parents out there or dads out there right now who are still, you know, about to have kids, let me just say for those moments and kindergarten, like who would have ever thought one day like kindergarten graduation would be a big thing? I know.

You know, it's like that's where we are right now. So just all of you, I just want you to know that, you know, you're going to blink an eye. And in about 15 years, let me just tell you that there won't be a damn thing you'll remember about a winter concert or a graduation. But you'll be stuck with 200 grand in college tuition bills. So if by chance you can't get there because of work, don't worry about it. That's my message to you. Really inspirational, Kip. Means a lot to me.

Always good to have the support. No, no, no, no. You're going to take pictures with your phone until the thing starts smoking. Right? Well, I'll leave that up to my wife. My question, Fabbro tells me, like, you can't just get up and leave after your kid sings. Like, there's a whole other grade's got to go. Like, you know, once your kid's done, you don't just get to go home and take them off the stage.

So that's the part I'm dreading. Hey, cheer for every kid on there. Like it's your own. No chance. All right. Get up off the floor, stop playing with the dog and go to school. There you go. That's all.

That's what I thought about kindergarten graduations and winter concerts back then. All right, we got a terrific show for you. In about 40 minutes, we track down Barry Trotz, Stanley Cup winning coach with the Washington Capitals. Third all-time winning coach with 914 and presently out of work. Wow.

Someone might want him. Do we think that uh in what has transpired in vancouver that uh you think they made a call to barry trotz before settling on rick talky can we ask him that i don't know what do you mean i don't know sam can you even say settling for rick talky he's been a highly coveted candidate out there. Well, when I say settling, it's another way of saying decided on. How's that? That's a little better. A little softer, I would say.

For sure. And we also had Rick Tockett's Vancouver Canucks take their first loss under his helm. We'll talk about that a little later on in the show. Borny, I know you haven't heard these clips. We won't play them now. We'll play them at the back half of the show. But the tone difference between him talking after his first win and then last night is pure comedy.

So looking forward to get to that. We'll get to that. Jamal Mayers, former NHLer. He's going to be by as well in studio. No winter concert for him. He's actually physically going to be here. So we're going to have some fun with him. You worked with him last night.

Did you not, JB, as you covered the New York Rangers and the Toronto Maple Leafs? So let's start there. The Leafs rally in the third period down to the New York Rangers with an overtime goal from Mitch Marner and everybody went home happy. Yeah, I think so, right? I mean, the Leafs stuck with it against a really good team. You know, didn't have everything go their way. They got some good goaltending.

I thought that, you know, Matthews had some looks, even though he didn't score. Pretty good showing, I thought. Your overview of the game, Kipper, was it positive? Listen, any time you could show the ability to persevere and keep it close and find a way to win a hockey game, all for it. But there were signs for the majority of that game that said to me that this is a game that they could have easily lost.

This is a game that I didn't see a ton of energy. This is a game that the best players for the most part didn't bring it. Samsonov continues to progress to the point where he is now running with something here, which again is a positive note. We do know that they are right back at it tomorrow night against ottawa they're right back at it sunday against washington and then they will close out in boston or against boston on wednesday and then they go into this prolonged break and i just think right now as i watch them this is a team that could use some rest based on what I saw last night. Yeah, I agree.

So I think that's a really good point. But I also just want to take a moment to note for Toronto Maple Leafs fans, for my buddy Sam McKee and everyone else, you cannot take a team for granted that doesn't have pop, doesn't play great, and handles the New York Islanders and New York Rangers, gets four points out of those games. Like, this is a good hockey team. I understand they haven't looked their best for a little bit here,

but it's a cool era to be a Leafs fan, I think, when you have the best players on the rink most nights and they can make plays like Marner did in OT and you get your points. 100%. And I think, again, when you're in a situation where you're only down a goal, you'll never – I don't care how tired they are, I don't care how times the ice is tilted, when you've got the likes of a Marner, Nylander, Matthews, and Tavares,

because he's got that ability to create offense, and we saw the game-winning goal on his stick only to hit a crossbar, there's always that element that they're not out of the game from shift to shift. Yep. And that was it last night. And, I mean, Timothy Lilligren makes an unbelievable play. How about Chris Kreider? Has that one on the back door that he misses,

and maybe one of the worst misses in the NHL I've ever seen, followed by getting timothy lilligrid walks and then gets body position on him not the finest night for all 20 no it was not um maybe for a few of their stars as well but uh i mean are we safe to say here that crider has the gimme putt and pick it up and puts it over the goal line. This game's over 3-1 for Shusterkin. Really good point. Yeah, I mean, that would change the tone of the game.

The Leafs open up and play a different style from there. Totally changes things. So, yeah, there's some luck involved in, you know, going on streaks like the Leafs are on. So they got a freebie there. All right, let's go to Sheldon Keefe on his overview of what he saw last night. Sheldon Keefe for our first Kippers Clipper of the day. I don't know if

I would say turn it around. It would just be able to break through. They played us hard tonight. Like you say, it's a good team. Deep team. They're not giving us a lot. I thought we had enough to have more than one goal

through 50 minutes or whatever it was, but good goaltender, good team playing hard defensively, and we didn't make good on some of our best looks. But we kept the game close enough to give ourselves a chance to just stay with it. We talked

about that it was probably going to be one that we'd have to end up shooting our way in and get a bounce to, to go our way. And that's how it worked out. The one thing that, uh, I was watching last night again, and it was played off of,

uh, the Islander game. It was the, the room in the neutral zone that we saw against the Islanders. And I had mentioned that it seemed like almost all the goals were coming from 200 feet out and the stretch passes were working and the huge gap that the Islanders left the Leafs in the neutral zone. The Leafs just ate it up.

And then you watch Holmberg score that goal, what, two and a half, three minutes into the game. And it was, again again it was a 200 foot play that uh stems off of uh breaking the puck out of your own zone coming through the neutral zone with speed and then finishing off a play and it just seemed to me that i thought the leafs would based on that goal feel like it would be a carryover from the Islander game, but after that goal things started tightening up and I didn't see a whole lot coming through the neutral

zone after that. And again, maybe that just stems from a team that's just being a little tired or just not having a ton of energy. But that part of the game shut down for the Toronto Maple Leafs until when they actually tied the game and took the game over.

Yeah. You know, Sheldon seems to be searching for something a little bit with the lines, right? Like he's mixing and matching. And, you know, when it wasn't working in the third period, you saw him throw out Matthews, Nylander, and Marner together just trying to find something. Because you're right.

They didn't seem to have that same success. And by the end of the game, you know, whether it – I i don't know what changed but they did seem to wear the rangers down the rangers may be a little too comfortable to just go into a shell and say okay we're going to defend our way out of this one can i be completely honest maybe this is a little bit of a dark place to take this conversation with with the way they played last night yeah but after the rangers made it 2-1 in the second period right with the heatle goal on a just a awful shift for the for the new top line there with the lease and yeah go ahead finish your thought i was just gonna say that late in that game before they tied it which was late when

they tied it i think there was just over three minutes left it really really reminded me of the Game 7s they've had over the years where they can't get to the middle of the ice, where they're going up against Tampa last year or the Habs the year before where they really couldn't get anything going or against Columbus where they barely score in the Game 5 deciding game. It just felt that the Stars, once they sort of start hitting this wall, it's not this disengagement. I don't know how to explain it,

but it just feels like they're not going to get one. And I had these feels creeping into my mind last night that it felt like a big playoff game that they were going to lose tight. It's good to pose a D. I know that's what it is, but you want them to break through in those situations. You want your best guys to beat their best guys.

But they have to do it with skill, quickness, and speed. They don't have that physical element to go up against a Trouba, a Sherratt, a Keandre Miller. Like, those are big bodies. There are so many good teams in the East, boys. Like you get, you happen, by some grace of God, you happen to get through Tampa and Boston, and you might have that team waiting for you in the semifinals. Like it's, and it's, the Eastern Conference is so stacked.

Just to talk about that one shift that you're talking about on the, on the Hedl goal. Kako turns it over three times. The Leafs had three or four opportunities to get the puck out. And they're trying to make these tight little paths. Three or four. And it is Matthews, Marner and Bunting.

And this is supposed to be your number one line here. And to my point earlier, I don't know if they're tired. I don't know if they just didn't have that focus, but those are your best players that can't get a puck out on multiple opportunities i have to be honest i hated i hated matthews and marner united i as a as it hasn't been great i think as a thing you go to in a game in terms of like that's the button you push where you're like okay this is going to light them up and get them going.

I like it as that sort of option when it's within the game. But starting the game with it, I don't know. Is it too far to say it's comfort with those two guys where it feels like they – I don't know. I just – I like it the other way way better. To your point about not looking like they're going to break through, the Rangers are fifth in the NHL in defending the front of their net.

They don't give up many slot shots, many inside looks, and so that is a thing that has plagued the Leafs, is an inability to get through that. They find a way last night, get a great goal from Lilligren, but that is going to be one of their challenges. And that's a challenge of everyone in the playoffs. How the hell do you get to the middle against good teams?

It's a battle. And the Leafs have failed three straight years to do it in the biggest games let me just ask you guys and i don't want to derail i hate to be i hate to be mr negative but i had to be honest with you guys about the feels that were creeping into my mind watching that game yeah that's fair i don't want to derail the conversation but mike mckenna of daily face off today wrote an article about the Leafs not bouncing, not, not punching back last night after Lily gets buried and Gio gets buried. Jamal Mayers talked about it on camera and off camera about sitting at home and being on another team and watching that just being like, oh, you can eat these guys. Are we going back?

Are we going back to that conversation again? Yeah. Well, that's the thing. I don't want to do 10 minutes on it, but, like, did you feel in those instances they were even a big deal? That they needed any sort of conversation follow-up? Hey, don't do that. I don't know. I mean, just go back a couple weeks ago or, you know, 10 days ago and just say, hey, boys, remember that showing we had?

And, you know, the game against Florida and, you know, Aston Reese. You remember that? And you remember a few things like that? We were finding it there. Right? And it's not a sometimes thing. I tell my kids, being nice isn't a sometimes thing. It's an all the time thing.

Same thing with that attitude of being on the ice and having a protective coat around each other. It's every night. It should be. And it may not look sometimes as great as other nights. And sometimes you might end up at the bottom of a pile, but it's okay. But, yeah, there's something to be said there. I think if you're Sheldon or Brendan or, you know,

something should be said to sometimes some of your players on picking your spots. You know, like, poor Gio gets trucked and Willie's like, oh, look, it's lights in the rafters. I want to be mad about this and I want to get, like, bent out of shape because this is something that's right in my wheelhouse. I love when guys respond to, you know, teammates getting hit and all that. But it's just you're going gonna drive yourself up the wall expecting it they just there's certain games where they do it against teams they don't like and there's just you get little fleeting moments of it where they play these games and i don't know rhyme or reason sometimes they're into it sometimes they're not i just kind of separate myself from it so it doesn't drive me completely insane every night it's the only way to do it like honestly i try like i just you know bunk was

texting me about it during the game last night i'm like ah yeah no comment no comment like i'm just blindfolds basically again it's like where do you go with that conversation that you haven't already gone and i don't think anybody's interested in it anymore because they are not that team, apparently. My car is not a truck, you know. Yes, exactly. As much as I would like it to drive over giant things, it does not do that. So unless they decide to jack it up and add big mutter tires to the Leafs roster, it is a car. Yes.

All right. As we mentioned earlier in the show, Lilligren's tying goal saved not only a point, but gave them the ability to earn an extra one in overtime. Let's go to Sheldon Keefe on the Lily pads tying goal. Yeah, I mean, we talk a lot about having that guy come down that backside and specifically tonight, you know, when it was hard to get clean looks to the net. So, like I said, we talked about the fact that we were going to have to shoot our way in and have good traffic and create some randomness around the net there,

and we needed people to be in spots to be able to win those pucks back, both forwards and D. Yeah, you want your D down there quite a bit when you have one guy rolling up higher, and we had that, and agreed by him. He beats his man to get to the inside, and their goaltender can't see the puck, which if I'm playing the way that he was, that's an important factor, and he makes good on the shot.

That was huge, that play. Yeah. And we talked the other day with Valley from MSG about offense coming from the back end. And, I mean, the Leafs are well on their way of getting that magic 150-point season from their blue line. Yeah. And, listen, you can throw the puck to the front of the net and good things happen and that's what happened last night like they needed a goal sandin filters one say uh tavaris puts a really nice tip on it down off of just thurkin's pad and it lands on lilligren stick and it goes in the net i you

know it was a great play all around but yeah sometimes you need the decor to fire him on net it feels like they don't do it that often no should we discuss Lilligren? I know Keith had a comment. You had a clip from him on Lilligren's development. I know there's been some noise like, is this the guy who should get some PP1 looks given the power play hasn't really found it? Alright, let's go

to Sheldon Keith on Lilligren's development. I can't remember exactly the time. It was certainly before I came into this position where things really, really clicked for him at the AHL level. He was becoming quite a dominant player. I don't know what his age would have been at that time, but it started to come, and then you could really see it blossoming

in terms of the player that he was when he was drafted, but also he was starting to really become a great defender, which I don't think anyone would have said that about him going into the draft. And that's why he's really been able to have a solid foundation here to build upon offensively. He's playing on the power play tonight and getting those extra looks, and he can do different things for us on offense too, but you don't get in those positions oftentimes if you can't defend and help us in other ways like he can do different things for us on offense too, but you don't get in those positions oftentimes

if you can't defend and help us in other ways like he can. You know, I don't know that Kasperi Kapanen ever turned into what people hoped he would be, but he interested me when I was with the Marlies because he only made the NHL because he became a penalty killer. Like Babs didn't want him on the team necessarily. They had a great top six on offensive guys but he became a PK guy and they could use him.

Interesting to hear Keefe talk about Lilligren becoming a defender first. He couldn't even use him until he could figure out the defending side of it and now the offensive side can grow. Yeah, listen, he has come a long way. There's no question about that and uh how much

more upside is there uh can he can he create a lot more can he turn himself into a 200 foot guy uh do you see him involved uh evolving as a as a number two i don't think that is out of the question. You guys listened with me on the show last year. I mean, I was a doubter, and I came around. He just played so well, I changed my tone. And now it's like, as long as he just continues to improve. So it's tough to put a limit on him and say, yeah, this is all he's going to be. He just keeps getting better.

I mean, your top guy who makes the most money on your team who's you know you quote unquote supposed to be your best defenseman has had his two best games since he's come back from injury when he's played with this guy on the top pair right like i don't think i think it's not that much of a coincidence i i have been blown away by him and i do like how far he's gone up the ranks of importance for the toronto maple leafs in this last two months stretch has been pretty remarkable like where would you rank wow where would you rank him in terms of importance to the team yeah right now he's as important as anybody like i you know i think he's you know brody is your clear number one guy i think in

terms of importance and then i think you could put him into that next level, wouldn't you? Brody over Riley is your clear number one important team. Yeah, absolutely. Are you comfortable saying that to start game one against Tampa Bay? I mean, if Morgan Riley's playing, if the way he's been playing the last however many games is the way he's going to be playing going into game one, yes. See, that's not. You got to get Riley back up being the leader on this blue line.

That's a massive priority. I appreciate, Sammy, that Lilligren's coming a long way, but I don't want to throw that on Lilligren. I mean, he's progressed nicely, but it's too much on his shoulders right now to feel like he's as important as anybody out there. And the lack of experience still. We saw him take a penalty last night. Did it come because he felt a little rushed on that play?

At times, we've seen that. Now, the big difference between Lilligrand's play now and probably months, if not last year, was his ability just to calm down now, right? Just knowing that you're going to play 15, 20 minutes a night and not feel like you have to do everything on every shift and that you can have a quiet shift, but a very effective, efficient shift.

He's starting to learn that now. But I'm not sure, you know, you want to go into the first round against Tampa Bay saying, hey, we need you. You're our best defenseman. I just feel like the, you know, the playoffs show that veteran guys and experienced and grown men tend to have a lot of success in these situations. The Leafs watching Alex Galchenyuk turn a puck over or watching some Travis Dermott flip one over against Montreal. Some of the errors they've had from younger guys haunt me. I just can't give Lilligren too much and say we're counting on you to be,

you know, 20-minute guy. Well, I mean, he is a 20-minute guy. They put him on the ice last night when they're trying to salt away a point for the game. There's a minute and a half left. Who did Keefe go to? He went to Lilligren and Giordano, not to Morgan Riley, not to Justin Hall.

It's pretty clear how far up the trust rankings he's gone. That's trouble. See, this is where. It may be trouble. It may be trouble, but it's a sign. If I'm Kyle Dubas right now and I got this kid in a great sweet spot right now, I'm not thinking about adding more to his plate. If anything, I'm starting to think that what if I was able to add one more body to that blue line and just re-slot everybody a notch down would

actually help and support Lilligren. That's my article for Sportsnet tomorrow. Not add more on his plate. You know, if you did bump everyone down one spot, how much more comfortable would you be if things are going perfectly? The Leafs fall behind at the top of their decor. Their number one guy and TJ Brody. So Riley and Brody are not Hedman and Sergeyev.

Or McAvoy and Lindholm. Or Fox and Trouba. Or Pesci and Slavin. They don't have the same one-two as everyone else. So they have to be better farther down their lineup. And if they're struggling there in the playoffs, they're not going to have success. So they need success with their second and third pair. I don't feel comfortable being like,

if Lilligren struggles or Sandin struggles or Hall struggles, you got no one to go to. You need someone else to slot them all down one and have another guy to bring in, just to make you feel comfortable that you're set at the bottom. I think it's fair. Oh, for sure. How about now, I'm'm gonna make kipper really

mad with this one but uh you said you wanted to add not even take away not add to his responsibility i think you might try at the top of the power play unit number one i think that's interesting uh i i'd welcome different looks right now for sure i listen you're willing to go to five forwards you're willing to go to the absolute nuclear you know option it's not looking good fellas in terms of what it's heading towards here in the first round you've written about it multiple times kipper about how the first round of the playoffs what's cost them so dearly yeah and it's been special teams And the power play is so important for this team. And it's trending in the wrong direction again. It doesn't look good. It should look better.

I don't understand. And I think you've got to kind of try to make a bit of a change here, no? 22% in January, which is 11th in the NHL, which doesn't sound terrible. But expectations for the Leafs, when you have that many elite players, are higher than... There's $47 million on the ice. Right. 11th is not good enough. No.

So would you try a Lilligren there, Kip? Yeah, yeah. And I don't think you have to throw him out there in necessarily the first unit, but... Well, he's playing on the second unit right now with Sandy. Well, get him better second minutes. Put an emphasis on the first 50 seconds, and then somebody's got to come off the ice.

But, yeah, I'd like to see him get some significant minutes on a power play just to keep him warm. At least he shoots it. Hey, Morgan shot it a couple times last night. He can't get it to the net, but he hit it. Yeah. And what were a couple times last night. He can't get it to the net, but he hit it. Yeah. And what were the Leafs last night? Were they 0 for?

Two, I think. Three. I think they were 0 for two or three. They were 0 for. They were 0 for. I think it was three. At some point, they're going to go, we just need to change personnel. What if they went two units?

You can't just keep shuffling the chairs on the Titanic here. So, Borny, you say that, and that's a thought that I had. What would you want the two units to look like? I feel like Bunting is a very good sort of net front puck recovery type guy. They wanted him on that, you know, when they go five forwards, he's the guy they add, and Then you have three flank guys in Willie, Matthews, and Marner. Do you want Willie to run a second unit? Whoever you give it to, you're basically saying you're the quarterback

from the flank. Those guys are all flank guys. I would leave Tavares and Bunting and Riley, or if that's your number one power play guy, and then figure out which flank guys you want to keep. Okay, let's want to move this a little bit towards Samsonov because he continues to be a story. Can't lose at home. We know that. Just in terms of what you saw last night.

And again, turning point in the game last night for me, Kreider finds a way to miss that opportunity, and Samsonov gives his team a window to not only stay in the game, but win the game. Your thoughts, let's go to you, JB, on what you saw out of Samsonov last night. Yeah, I think he made the saves he had to make. You know, he made that really nice one early on Keandre Miller.

I thought that was his highlight real save of the night. And otherwise, you know, he'd come away 27 saves, or sorry, give up two goals and 29 shots. Like, not, otherwise, I didn't think he was spectacular, but he didn't need to be. Sammy, on the Heidel face-off, was that one of those goals where you go? That's a cap tip.

Okay. What did you think of it? I thought it was a brilliant play by Hedl. Caught everybody off guard. Didn't Mario do that a couple times? That was the Mario move. I remember specifically watching Wayne Gretzky do that in a game in St. Louis, which went top corner.

Really? Maybe on Greg Mellon. Maybe not. I don't know. How about, though, how... Can he be confirmed or denied? Kampf was aligned so far into the corner because he's winning it back to his goalies. You know, Jamal actually mentioned this on his, or on our show last night, that when

you're the centerman, you got to tell the goalie, I'm coming your way. Like, I'm pulling it back to the middle. And then, you know, the other thing is just recognize the guy's flipping his hand over. Because you saw Hedl turn it back over. He was going to draw it back and decided not to. So that's on camp to me. Guys, you just...

You play 1,300 NHL games. How many goals do you see like that go in? Well, that's probably why camp's not worried. Like, what are the odds? Well, Hedo was smiling the whole way. He was smiling all the way. Ice, he took the next face off. He was smiling there, too.

He couldn't even believe that it went in. Did the clock actually move? I don't think it did. I don't think it did. Yeah. Pretty unbelievable. Hey, can I ask you guys a question? Oh, yeah.

What if Samsonov is just an elite goalie? Are we allowed to dream on that? Oh, boy. He's 12th in the NHL in save percentage. There's enough of a stretch where... Like a top 10 goalie in the league. He's separating himself from Matt Murray. Now, I believe that they're going to go back to Matt Murray on Friday night.

Oh, yeah. And regardless, Samsonov comes back against Washington. And even if he lays an egg against Washington on Sunday, I think you've got to come back to him against Boston on Wednesday. Yes, Kipper. You have to treat him like the starting goalie he is, right, Borey? Yeah, I guess. I don't want them to rush to conclusions too much because Matt Murray feels like he's losing

a battle he hasn't had the chance to fight in. We have a game and a half that wasn't great and now he's just cooked? Tomorrow night's not going to be easy for Matt Murray. Ottawa is a top 10 scoring team, the top chance generating team. It is not going to be easy. Number five power play in the league for the Sens. He's set up for failure here, isn't he? There's a lot of pressure on Matt Murray to keep himself in this thing. You think there's a lot of pressure on matt murray to uh to keep himself in this thing you you think there's pressure on him well i just kind of think like you know it's maybe he's just

think about the backup right another another bad outing another four plus goals against ottawa on friday he doesn't get the start on sunday he doesn't get the start on Sunday. He doesn't get the start against Boston midweek. And then they disappear for how many days? I think eight or nine. Eight or nine. Yeah. You want to go two weeks now with the thought that, you know,

you've got some serious technical issues right now? Yeah. He won't be in Aruba wearing sunglasses. He'll be at MasterCard Center wearing sunglasses. So true. Or Ford Performance Center, whatever the hell it's called. This is the year 2000. How's your spring break? He's going on vacation and he's wearing glasses on the beach.

Just blinders so he can find the pina colada delivery person. There they are. All right. Do we have a keep on Samsonov? We do. What he's been doing for the Toronto Maple Leafs? Let's go to Sheldon. We believe in him, and we have high expectations.

Nobody expects anybody to have a record like that. It's quite remarkable. And obviously it speaks a lot to his play, speaks a lot to our team's play. Just the same. But this is another tough game for him, right? Marjorie Ferrer is pretty thin, and you've got an elite goaltender and a countryman of his down on the other end,

not unlike he did against the Islanders the other night. And I thought in both cases he stood his ground and gave us the opportunity to win the game. So, yeah, I mean, is he exceeding expectations? We have high expectations. We really believe in him and his ability, but we needed to get his buy-in and we needed him to put in the work that's necessary for him to really find a stable foundation and consistency in his game,

and he's done that. So that's why you've given him the runway here to just really stay with it. That's an underrated comment he made about the Russian goalies. He just went at Sorokin and Shosturkin and won twice. Yeah, can Canada borrow one of these goalies? You don't want to have Logan Thompson thompson is the best in the country how many do you need you uh there was a good portion of last night's game you're like

shisterkin's gonna do it to them again yeah yeah he is really really good i know that's not exactly a hot take but that's a guy you know i mentioned them playing in a playoff series if they somehow got that far to play a team from a different division in a playoff series, that's not a fun team to play against with him and net. Like you think about their decor, you think about the offensive guys they have, and then you get through all that.

They had Tampa down three, one last year, didn't they? No, three, two, three, two.

Yeah. They won game five on home ice to go down to Tampa to lose an overtime. But who's counting? Yeah. You got it dialed. Yeah. Well, with Samsonov, even in Washington, I mean, he was a highly touted prospect, a first rounder.

I don't think anybody ever thought, and including the Washington Capitals, that this guy did not have the talent to be a very good goalie that's what's encouraging is that the pedigree is there right so what do we what are we down to now attitude work ethic commitment maturity i mean maybe that stuff's kind of getting straightened out a little bit for him up here change of scenery i mean the thing that the thing that would terrify you right because i mean there's inevitable conversation here that he is a restrictive free agent at the end of the season

which is an inevitable conversation which you hate to have but how much of this is him you know proving himself versus once he does get a contract the difference in mentality right like it's the full Bobrovsky the full Bobrovsky like it's a very different thing when you're on a one-year deal versus a little bit of a little bit of comfort a little bit of job security like it's all I mean there's so much mentality that goes into being a goalie fans will deal with worrying about what to pay him, they'll have no problem with that. That will have meant success.

That will have meant they're getting out of the first round. Yeah, and I think, I mean, I'm sure the conversations have already started behind Quill's doors in terms of paying him something, no? I would hope because if you feel like he's not going to fall off anytime soon, then the best time now is to sign him before the poker game gets a little bit more expensive because prices usually, antis usually go up as the season progresses. Yeah, and you pay him and then he blows it in the first round.

And you're like, what have we done? If they get into the first round, is it like sponsored by little Buddha that day? Are you guys just going to crush cans in the studio? I'll find something to do. Well, pop, pop and champagne for a first round win. Yeah. Cigars and champagne for getting past the light. Cigars.

We'll hot box that studio. Yeah. I'm sure they'd love that. Should we go to keep on the OT winner? Yeah, let's have a listen. Mitch Marner. Yeah, I'm not quite sure what was going through their mindset. They might have been, we had just made a change with Austin

and David Kampf coming off. Austin's coming on. Well, if that created a little bit of confusion, but he was able to attack the forward, and a lot of times something can break free there. Forwards more frequently make those mistakes, and great goal to take it right across the crease and make good on it.

So it was a good process by the guys to set that all up, and then Mitch did the rest. So that was Mitch against Abanajad and Panarin, was it not? Panarin and Miller. And Miller was the D-man back. Yeah. Like, if that was a role reversal and the two best players on the Leafs were Marner and Matthews

on a goal against, like that. Getting cooked. Oh, boy. Like, Matthews on a goal against like that. Oh, boy. Like grill marks on their ass the next day. Well, that just goes to show, you know, about the market because it's so true. Like other great players make mistakes too. And we're just like, ah, well, it's not really their forte. Yeah. No, pretty ugly.

But I will say, you know, what bothers me is hearing Keefe say the process was good and setting that up. It's like, why is there a process? It's three on three. What are you – I don't know. You guys – are they overthinking it? I know they won. David Kampf out there to start.

I love it. Did she just put your – No, I love it. All right. I love it. Now they're – this David Kampf is – he's like hypnotherapy that cures the yips. He's cured the yips. Yeah, it's like that's 100% a great analogy, but that's not logical.

I don't care if it's logical. It's three on three. It's stupid. It's a regular season. He's got to get as many points as he possibly can. And having Kampf out there seems to steady them. He wins the draw. Haven't they gotten possession every time?

That's the most important thing is the possession off the start. It's chipping with the five iron, Sammy. Oh, it's Marriott Alton's seven iron from the fringe. Just to play off face-offs. I mean, the one thing that, I don't know, seems awfully noticeable, and I don't know what the numbers are, but even a power play that starts in the offensive zone when they lose a face-off and it goes down the ice

and kills the first 25, 30 seconds drives me nuts. It does drive you nuts. You hate it. Oh, it's like, you know, I mean, it's a major portion of what maybe what sometimes the power play lacks. You're not seeing PP2 as soon as that happens. No, it's done.

It's over with. And then to Sammy's point, I mean, you do have to win a draw to start this thing and puck possession, and then you get into that old basketball feel where they all gain the zone, and it's like, no, let's regroup. Let's all come back out again, and we'll go back in. I hate that part, too. It on three camp is a 53 percent guy and so is matthews you know like i just yes superstition i know don't don't ask how just ask how many you're you know you're now you're nailing putts and chipping again keep camp out

there hypnotherapy no argument okay we're gonna take a quick break uh sammy you're gonna track down barry trot one of the winningest coaches in nhl history he's on the on deck circle here on the real kipper and born show thanks for tuning in wherever you are life sports net 590 the fan youtube channel downloading on itunes and spotify we're glad you're aboard give us a rating and review and a thumbs up. And we're back with Barry Trotz. Smart takes on the biggest stories in sports. The Fan Drive Time with Ben Ennis.

Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. nick cabrillo's justin bourne dirk brandeo and lovely jennifer roland all along for the next hour or so we got barry trotz momentarily we've got jamal Mayers that we will discuss his thoughts on the Leafs and Rangers last night, covering the game with JB, and let's welcome in Barry Trotz. Really appreciate your time. Trotz,

where are you? How are you enjoying your time off? I'm enjoying it. I'm actually in Winnipeg right now for another day. So just traveling, doing some family things, and watching some hockey, and doing all the things that you guys are probably doing.

Awesome, awesome. You know, things did quiet down a little bit. If I can go back to earlier in the year, you caused us some excitement with uh your talk about coaching in canada i think you mentioned an original six team i think you mentioned a maybe a city that uh involved a freestanding structure uh maybe off one of the five great lakes uh well maybe not so much i don't think i did no no no not so much but uh that's fallacy right there um you know everybody thinks that that's uh you know it's directed at

that that wasn't the case i was asked that question you know uh you know you've done lots in the game is there anything that you you't done? And that's the only thing that came to mind. So, um, that gets blown out of proportion. Every time I speak to you guys, something is either tweeted or, or out of proportion. So, uh, it's part of the business and I understand that, but, uh, don't read into anything. I'm not, I'm not doing anything this year. No, we're, we're just having some fun here, Trotz. But, I mean, you've coached in Nashville, Washington, and even the island. But even to go back to just talk about what you just said,

it does remind you or many others how in Canada it's almost tenfold sometimes on what things can be said or how they can be taken out of context. Yeah, absolutely. That's part of the business. You have a passionate country that loves its game, and I got to see it firsthand on the other side a little bit more than usual this year just because I'm out I'm out there as like a fan and uh you know

watching games and uh you know reading reading stuff I probably never would have uh read before or listening to stuff that I didn't have the time to listen to before so uh all good it's all good it's all part of the business and it's it's part of the territory. But I have a different perspective a little bit this year than I maybe had the last 25. Barry, getting the chance to actually step back and watch 32 teams play games and sort of reflect on how you've coached before and how you want to coach in the future, has anything changed for you watching this year going,

okay, I like that little tidbit that team does or I didn't think of it that way? Has anything changed being able to step back from the day-to-day of it all? Absolutely. One of the things that I think that coaches that have coached long in the league, I've learned from guys in the past, is that you have to stay current. The one thing that Claire Drakes and current. The one thing, you know, the Claire Drakes and the George Kingstons of the world, when I started, Wayne Fleming, people like that,

they always talked about staying current. And a lot of this current stuff comes from the lower leagues because you have less at stake, if you will. And then you continue to have some foundational stuff that has been in the game for a hundred years that has to be sort of taught a little bit and continues to evolve. But foundational stuff are always there. But yeah, the game is way different than it was 20 years ago.

Just the skill level is unbelievable right now. The way players think, things that they try, I mean, it's a pretty special time. You know, back in the day when, you know, growing up and, you know, Jason, you saw Mario Lemieux and people like that, you know, they're doing stuff, Gretz, and now you're seeing, you saw Mario Lemieux and people like that. They're doing stuff, Gretz. And now you're seeing, I watched the prospect game last night, and you see some of these kids trying to mesh again

and making unbelievable plays through people. It's a different time, and they think differently, so you've got to evolve with it. We're talking to Barry Trotz, Stanley Cup winning coach, third all-time in NHl history with 914 wins when we spoke to mark recce the other day trotz and uh he wrote a terrific article in nhl.com on some of the challenges that uh rick tocket may have in vancouver and one of the things he stressed is he'd probably want to go in there and and and work on his player relationships with core players and you know he also spoke in in an earlier era and we broke in i broke in with you and um doug mclean and brian murray and i'm

like you know back then we just kept our mouths shut and we you know we just did what we were supposed to do and nobody had to explain anything to me, nor was I expecting any explanations, but that part of the game has really changed now. So, I mean, part of that evolution that you're talking about is, is player relationships. Is it more important than ever in your mind or is there a fine line there? Well, I think you have to have relationships

because what relationships do is build trust. And you look at the successful coaches. I watch football. I watch all the other things, and the successful coaches always have relationships. They're not bullied by the star players or anything. They just have a relationship, and they have a partnership is probably a better way to say it,

where both sides have an understanding. And as much as you want to tell a player, hey, I need you to do this, this, you also have to listen as well. And I think over time, evolution know evolution of the player evolution of the game um you know you have to have that and if you don't have that it it'll work for a little while and then uh when you need it most it'll it'll uh it'll backfire on you in terms of not having relationships so um I think it's really important. I think players expect it.

Players have a voice, and you've got to listen to them. But at the same time, you have to know the game, and if it's about winning, getting the player to buy into a winning culture, or if you're trying to establish that, or just winning games. The game has to be played a certain way at certain times and certain situations in the game with an understanding of the bottom line is winning hockey games. Everybody wants to get their points.

Everybody wants to get their ice time. But at the end of the day, if you want to be a champion in this business, you have to sacrifice something for the betterment of the team all the time. The great players do that. You see it across the board, all of them. The SIDS and the OVs, they've all done that. They've all had to go through that evolution. The new age players that are coming into the league

are going to have to learn it. And they're going to have to learn it from veteran players and coaches. You know, I know, Kepri, you're a great veteran. You showed up every day and left it on the line. And that's, you know, that's what endeared you to the fan bases and the teammates. Barry, I want to ask you a tactical question because I remember when you took over for Doug Waite in Long Island,

the Islanders were terrible defensively, and you turned them around in impressive fashion. Rick Tockett has that challenge ahead of him with the Vancouver Canucks. I know for years the team's always played sort of a layered zone defense. I know that now sometimes they'll played sort of a layered zone defense. I know that now sometimes they'll go to more man-on-man depending on the personnel. You know, what do you think is the right way to play in your own D zone? How do you fix a team that has such problems?

Is it based on who your personnel is? Is there one right way to do it? Well, I don't know if there's a right way or a wrong way. It can be personnel-based. If you don't have great skaters or great thinkers, sometimes a man-on-man will work for you. Or you play a zone if you want to pack it in. So I would say whatever works for the personnel, whatever you can get them to buy in,

because I know a team like Tampa Bay has done a couple things over the evolution of Koop's time and they're a sort of a collapse zone down low and then they're sort of man on man up top. You look at

Boston plays a sort of a zone and they hold their wingers in the middle and on the wall. They keep people from cycling on them. That is a very successful. You just need sort of the right people on your team being your key people buying into what you're selling.

Once you do that, and to me, playing defense is a choice. As much as it is coaching, it's a player's choice if they want to. Because you can teach defense, but the players have to choose to do it. And if they don't choose to do it, then, you know, but you have to have accountability. And I always think that when you don't have the puck, the best foundation that you can have is really good structure and then accountability.

You know, one of the things I said to Ovi when I went to Washington, and, you know, they were a very offensive team, and he was the captain at the time. As I said, you know, the whole deal on defense is just a choice. When you have the puck, I want you to play offensively. I want you to make plays because that's what you guys do. But when we don't have the puck, we've got to have a plan to get it back. I think teams that have good plans on getting the puck back

and what I call protocols on certain situations, on kick-out plays off the rush, recycle plays in the zone. Everybody has their sticks in the right position. They come to the right spots and they communicate if there's anything that breaks down. And one of the things that I always teach is recognize danger. It is not perfect. There's guys that will pick you, a guy will fall down, there'll be a line change. You have to recognize danger, and you have to protect the dangerous areas. So I've always liked protecting the middle of the ice

because I think the goaltenders are so good in the National Hockey League that if you can keep them to the outside for the most part, then you're going to have success. And through the neutral zone, having proper spacing so that you don't have to give up the blue lines as easily. Because once players start going laterally on you, then all, as they say, all hell breaks loose. I want to get to Ovi and Washington,

who's in town on the weekend against the Toronto Maple Leafs on Sunday. But just correct me if I'm wrong, Barry, that over your 20-plus years as a coach, you've never had to come in halfway through into a season, correct? No, I have not. In the minors, I had to finish a season one year, but never come in halfway through. Would the adjustments be much different for Rick than it would, say, to start 82 games? Yeah, I think so.

I think you look at the schedule with teams at this point in the year playing every second day. You've got to balance that, how much teaching, how much practice, how much, you know, how much information can you give them. I think what Rick is probably doing and is probably number one is building relationships and putting some foundational blocks into them in terms of how they play. Give them a little bit of structure.

Give them a little bit of predictability so that they're a real good offensive team, I think. Anyways, they've got lots of pieces in Vancouver offensively, and they've just got to tighten it up and make a few commitments defensively. If they do that, play it with pace and make proper line changes. All those very, very basic things that sort of seep into your game when it's not going well. Get those in line and give them a little bit of a plan

and just sort of chip away at that plan over the course from now to the end of the season. Barry, I've had a number of people ask me, why would Rick Tockett want the Canucks job with what a tire fire it is? And I've tried to say to people, there's 32 head coaching jobs. There's not that many that come up, and they're all valuable. I just, for my own sake, seeing you waiting for an opportunity, do you ever get nervous?

Do you think you just want to get back in for the next one that comes up? Or do you really feel in a position to, if it takes a couple of years to find the right spot, you're able to do that? Well, I think mine was, I've been pretty transparent. I've taken care of some family matters that I put on the back burner for a number of years. So, you know, I feel like I'm in a little different position. I'm probably more in the back end of my career than the, you know, I feel like I'm in a little different position.

I'm probably more in the back end of my career than the middle or the front of it. So you have a different perspective, I think. But I think, you know, it's the best league in the world, the best players in the world. And there's 32 jobs and there's 32 of the premier jobs in the National Hockey League. As a coach, I never minded going into a tough situation. I always felt that that's where you can make impact. I think Rick looked at it and goes, you know what? I can have impact in this market with this team and this group of players.

It is a great city, and it's one of the premier jobs in the world when it comes to coaching hockey. And there's 32 of them, and he's got one of them. And he's going to try to make his mark on the Vancouver Canucks, which I think he'll do a great job. Barry, a guy that helped put a Stanley Cup ring on your finger. Ovechkin's in on the weekend here and another 30-plus goals with another 30-plus games to go. And not so much can he break Gretzky's record, but now maybe by how many?

Oh, yeah. It really, it's amazing. He's like, we don't realize, we may never see an athlete like this ever again. And if you really dig into his beginning when he started playing and right to where he is now, it's a pretty remarkable thing that he's played for the old know, the old Sylvia regime, if you will, uh, at the tail end of it, um, all the way to, you know, the new NHL where, you know, they're, they're trying Michigans and stuff like that.

And what amazes me more is durability. And I, and I've said that, uh, a number of times, his durability and his ability to score, um, is score is phenomenal. And I don't know if we're going to see that combination ever again. I mean, there's been some big players, you know, they're great players. Eric Lindros. But, you know, even as big as Eric was, you know, the durability factor, you know, ended up being a factor in his career.

The durability with Ovi is just phenomenal and uh he doesn't play a late game as you know and uh you know i think he's going to break the record and he's missed a couple seasons because of lockouts and shortened seasons and all that i think he'd be all over that record right now um but i i think he's in my mind i think he's going to go for a round number so um you know he's going to hit that that 900 mark or whatever it is uh something that me is meaningful to him i guess is what i'm saying because he's got certain things uh you know obviously aid is great is something that is very valuable to him. And there will be something of that with some significance that he'll put into it. And he'll stay there and get it. And at that point, he'll drop the mic and walk away from the game as the greatest goal scorer that we know.

Yeah, no kidding on that. One more for me, Barry. And that's, I think if I'm correct uh i heard you earlier saying that uh you've really shut down the thought of coaching this season yeah i think so uh i think uh where i am right now i think i've i'm just shut it down for this year and uh i've had some opportunities during the year that popped up and i and i've turned them down so i think i'm just going the full year. But all bets are off summer. I mean, you'd like to be

coaching September, October. Well, we look forward to that. We look forward to that, Barry. Really appreciate your time. Thanks for doing this. All right. Take care. That's Barry Trotz. Third winningest coach in NHL

history. 9-14. That is a lot of hockey games. That is crazy. Sorry, 914 wins? I thought Bruce Boudreaux had a gazillion at 600. That is unbelievable. The answer he gave to my how to defend question,

I was taking notes on it. It was the most important test of my life. What a fascinating bunch of insights. What stood out for you the most on that? The willingness to adapt the system to the personnel. If you have dumb players, he didn't say that, but if you have dumb players, you can't play a zone with a lot of switching in layers if you have great skaters you might just want to play man on man and just chase guys around and be okay

and simplify so it depends who you have and also it stood out that he mentioned that tampa bay has used different systems under cooper which means that cooper adapts based on the game and his own personnel that interested me too i wrote all that down i'm going to take that to the zigzags on Monday and we're going to get to work, boys. Switch systems. Dump it in and dump it out. That's all you got to tell your zigzags. That's it. Go get it.

And then get off the ice. Yeah, I wonder if it was a difference of philosophy when it came to maybe, I don't know, defending or something. I just find it still weird that, you know, there's a kind of a surprise parting between Barry Trotz and Lou Lamorello in the island, JB. You can't tell me it wasn't like succession and there was some sort of power struggle between Lou and Barry. You know, something happened there to me,

whether it was Barry not wanting to use the same personnel as Lou, Barry not deploying the personnel the way Lou wanted him to. It can't just be based on performance because he got the Islanders to play a pretty tight system. They look structured to me. You're saying Lou's hard-headed? Oh, who would imply that? I don't think he's stubborn at all.

I don't know. What's Lou going to do? Is he a seller? A buyer? Do you know how old Lou is? 75, I would guess. 79. 80.

Wow. He's 80. Did he turn 80? I believe he's 80. I was told he was 80 yesterday. I'm going to Google it to confirm. Lam-O-Riello. Here we go.

He is. Apparently he doesn't want to tell me. I don't know. I'll figure it out. Yeah, he's 80. He was born in 1942. There you go. There's your answer.

So he's 80 years old. Turned 81 on October 21st. Are we going to say like like, 80 is, like... The new 70? Yeah. I don't know. The 80 is now back to 80, I think. Yeah.

That's what I think. Turns out 80 is reflective of exactly the age he is. Yes, exactly. Lose too stubborn to sell, I think. Still got some juice. We know that. I wouldn't mess with him. All right.

We're going to take a break. Or anything else you want to touch on? Fourth line. Holmberg's goal, boys. Kind of impressive last night. Oh, my God. Rocket. An absolute backhanded rocket.

Solid finish. Yeah. Can I say that and without a ounce of regret in my voice that that was a Sidney Crosby-esque backhand? 100% it was. It really was. It actually looked like Sidney Crosby's move.

He caught it and he caught it. Separated. Dropped his shoulder. It's almost a smack motion to it where he doesn't wrist it on his back and he smacks it like Crosby. So what I'm saying is... On pace for 12 or 13, he's Crosby, basically. Push for Pontus. We got Rob. Do you want to hear the clip about the fourth line last night?

Yeah, let's go to that before we go to break. Yeah, I did. I mean, Joey drew a couple penalties, got an assist, and the line got us going. They took up too many men in the ice penalty, which you don't want to see that. But I thought we got good minutes from them. It became harder to play them. In New York, especially when they moved Kreider down with Trochek, it's three lines that are really good and really dangerous,

and they didn't use their fourth line much either. So it was tougher to get them a lot of minutes. But from what we got from them, I was happy. Listen, there's no question that they're still searching for something on that fourth line. Oh, absolutely they are. I mean, they've got some found money in McMahon and Holmberg. Now it's can anyone else do it?

Is Joey Anderson ready to be a contributor? This goes back to our conversations this week about finding a fourth line that plays like a fourth line, wants to be a fourth line, does their best in six minutes, and doesn't complain. I think Keefe nailed it there, though. They had a nice hot start to the game, but I thought they got played off the ice by the end of the game

in terms of him not trusting them, them not looking. The Rangers are really good, and that's a team that's a playoff-style team, and that could be a little warning sign for Kyle Dubas and co. When when your head coach is saying hey we can't play them in a close game in the third period that you might want to address the bottom half of the team but yeah you know nice goal by pontus yeah really nice yeah but you know thinking of that tampa bay fourth line that gets put out there in those situations it's certainly different than that absolutely all right we got uh jamal Mayers coming up after the break. And, JB, you were on the show Wednesday night at hockey last night

covering the Rangers and the Leafs. Did you carry him for most of the night because I was at the game? You know what? I tried not to get between him and Stewie. They disagreed about every conceivable topic last night. We can get Jamal's thoughts on a lot of things um all things leash related toughness depositioning well i'm on jamal's side so we'll go to bat for him okay we'll get his thoughts on your performance last night on the panel that more after the break

you're watching and listening to real kipper and Born. Breaking down the top stories in the NHL every day. The Jeff Maris Show. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. We'll get Jamal Maris in momentarily. Or maybe secondly as he comes on the show. Marzi, what's going on? How you guys doing?

All right. So you worked last night, right? Yeah. How was our boy, JB? Greatest performance last night. Great analysis. His hair was on point. He clearly didn't pick his suit because it looked great.

So, no, it's easy to work with. It's fun. Marcy's just saying that because I had his back in his debates with Stewie. I appreciate it, Jamal. But you guys could have had a whole show just disagreeing on plays last night. Well, I don't know what game he's watching.

I mean, I don't know. There's only one way to see it. He's picking on a kid who's played one period of hockey. It's not his fault. I don't understand it. You and Stewie left after the first game? Yeah.

And then you left JB to work, like, the crappy 1 a.m. hour. Is that equivalent to letting the rookie skate around by himself in warm-up? No, no, no, no. It's not the way it happens you know this that's actually he did me a favor because originally i wasn't supposed to be on late then they asked me to stay and i had already had my brother coming in from out of town so on a train so i you know he was nice enough to stay late usually i get the late chips i don't know what he's telling you over there, but I get the tough ones. So he'll let you go out with your brother,

but he'll let me work alone in the studio today because he's at a winter concert. I'm getting buried here. What's going on? Hey, listen, whatever the case is, you guys, you brought them some luck because they pulled the game off. And we're speaking, of course, the Toronto Maple Leafs against the New York Rangers.

Just your overall thoughts, Marzi, of the game that you saw for 60 minutes and what maybe the Leafs did or didn't do throughout the game. You know what? They're a team that's finding different ways to win. They're showing a more consistent defensive effort. They're more committed defensively. I think they're growing as a team, and that's what really good teams do.

I wouldn't say they played their best but you're not going to have your best every night and finding a way to win as you know is is part of the process of becoming a championship team so and i like that they're they mix you know they split up matthews and marner for a bit now they're back together and it's nice for them that they have a little bit more depth in their attack and that they have other options. And if it isn't working, they have the ability to switch things up, which I think is going to become even more important as they go down the stretch.

Jamal, I thought it was really interesting getting to hang with you last night and hearing you weigh in on Lilligren gets buried, nothing happens, then Gio gets buried and nothing happens. And not necessarily you saying that you can't win like that, but it's just if you were sitting at home on another team, that would make you feel a certain way about the Leafs. Yeah, I mean, listen, I know that there's no more fighting. I'm not a dinosaur.

I get that. But the game does regress, as you both know. And the referees, whatever they say say and i argue with peels yellow time because he tells me the numbers don't support my argument because they call the same amount of penalties or even more but they let certain things go in the playoffs the game is becomes more difficult to play harder to play and and when you're when you don't have a response and i'm talking about team toughness i'm not talking about're when you don't have a response and i'm talking about team toughness i'm not talking about fighting when you don't respond to certain things people i would and

i'm sure other players would do the same as you make a mental footnote oh you can kind of take advantage of these guys you can kind of be a little bit you know you run them over and nothing's going to happen and i i would think that watching them, and I would take note mentally that, all right, you can take advantage of these guys because they're not going to respond to it. And I guess my, I just want them to respond as a group because the pack mentality matters. And if there's five guys that jump in,

and if you have to kill a penalty in the middle of the season to prove a point, I don't have a problem with that either. I'll throw this out to both of you guys that we've watched this kind of internal battle on a fourth line the last year and a half, two years, and now it's fine hunt, bring him in, he's out. Aston Reese looked like he had a lock there for a little while, finds himself on the outside.

Joey Anderson comes back in. Is enough enough? Do they have to go outside the organization and find a legitimate guy that can maybe bring those elements that you just spoke of and once and for all solidify something on the fourth line? Honestly, what I'd like to see is I'd like to see them pick up a guy like Jonathan Tays and put him in the three-hole and move Kemp to the fourth line and that solves your problem.

I think that you don't really need a fourth line. I know it's nice to say we have balance and we have all these things. You don't really need it. You need guys to go out there and change momentum. You need guys who can kill penalties. You need them to eat minutes and not get scored on and i don't i don't know i think that you're right they don't have the answer for that that bottom line but if you bring in someone to fix that third line um to make it better then you're going to push someone down and then it becomes less important. So it'll be interesting to see what they do.

I think they're, I'm sure they're looking and there are options out there and it becomes a lot easier as certain guys' cap numbers go down to be able to fit it in. But that's what I would like to see. I'd like to see them kind of, you know, fit someone in that three hole and maybe push camp down to the fourth line. Joel, another topic we kicked around last night and then that three hole and maybe push camp down to the fourth line. Jamal, another topic we kicked around last night was the idea of Austin Matthews blocking shots.

He's now first in the NHL in block shots amongst forwards. Last night nearly taken one in the wrist in the process. You think maybe not so much of that for you? I will go to the grave saying that that is ridiculous he should not be blocking shots it's ridiculous that's that's for that's our job we can block shots now listen it's different than him going out to the point and he's like 10 feet away and takes one in the shin pad that's different than him standing on one knee or going on one knee in the slot with a guy taking a slapper you're just inviting a broken wrist a broken ankle uh i i don't you don't need him blocking shots and i'll tell you what and i said this i think

last night i would get pissed when uh when tasaser would block shots killing penalties. Like, we're not winning without him, right? So let me block the shot. Or let the goalie stop the puck. But you don't need Matthews leading the league and blocking shots. I'm sorry. That's our recipe for disaster because you're not winning without him. Yeah, you know, and yet we've marveled all season long at the Leafs' ability to play

defense now and take away those lanes. And how many times do we not, we watch and we don't see pucks reach their goalie because they just seem to be in the right place at the right time. And that's okay for 85, 90% of

your lineup, but not a few guys, including Marner, I would believe that you'd feel the same way. I do. Maybe I'm – that's just what I think. I honestly – it's different when you're standing in the slot. You know what I'm talking about, right? When you're like 25 feet away. That's not your job.

Like, let's not your job. Let's geo-block those. Let's de-block those. I'm sorry, that's not for those top three players de-blocking shots. Willie Nylander, no, don't block those. Tavares, don't block those. Matthews, don't block those. And Marner, don't block those.

Because you're not – I'm no, I'm with you. I totally get that. It's a perspective thing, and I like that perspective. You know, one of the teams that has a couple of good defensive forwards blocked a few shots, old Ryan O'Reilly there in St. Louis. I know you've watched this team closely for years. They've got a lot of available pieces if they are sellers. Do you expect them to be sellers?

What's going to happen for that team over the next few months? Well, the fortunate thing is that Army has been around a long time, and no one knows the team better than he does. And I think that if he were to fairly look at his group and analyze, are they a contending team? And I think the realization is that they really aren't, they're not quite there. And to me, the fact that they had a couple of injuries

kind of helps make that decision easier for him in regard to letting those two guys go. And it's a tough decision, obviously, because they wouldn't have a Stanley Cup without O'Reilly. He's such a good person. I can't understate how much he does and you don't even see in the community. He's such a quality person.

But I think that they could get a lot for him. Maybe they can do trading Tarasenko and O'Reilly. Does that give them a position where they're now back in contention because they get pieces that teams that are about to win need? And then you have to evaluate, like, what length of contract is he going to want? Is he going to want, you know, Naz um you know nazem cod return like are you willing to commit that to him or tarasenko so very tough decisions i think the injuries and the fact that they're out of the playoff picture right now make it a little easier for him my inclination would be

that they they see what they can get and they trade those two which you got your choice or let me phrase it differently now um where would teams go that would be looking for a top centerman or top six centerman would they would you go o'reilly or bo horvat and i know there's a a swing of maybe what uh three or four years uh that o'reilly's older. But, I mean, you're trying to win the Stanley Cup this year. Who do you take? Yeah, you're trying to win now. You'd probably pick O'Reilly.

But if you're looking at, depending on what you'd have to give up, right? So, the more you give up, the more likely you're going to want to sign that player for more. There's a lot certainly that goes into it but i think that the the age is a huge factor um and i think that would make bull horvat more attractive long term but if you're looking to win this year um it's hard to make a better argument than o'reilly and what he can do to a group. Jammer, the coverage of NHL hockey has changed a lot, and that includes the type of work that you and I and other people have to do.

What are your thoughts on gambling and the way it's affecting the game? Are you a guy who bets money yourself? I am, full disclosure. I do throw down some shekels here and there. What are your thoughts on gambling's connection to the nhl yeah i'm not i'm not really a gambler i don't really gamble but um i think it's a great part to increase revenue and it's it makes it exciting and and uh a lot more interesting for the casual fan to get into it i think it's a great idea great partnership the intriguing part for me is that the reason why the NFL discloses every single injury is because of the betting.

It's just so peculiar for me that we still go with UBI. It's like, are we not to the point where they want to know exactly what the heck's wrong with a guy? Are we not past that point? The game's so fast. If a guy has a shoulder that's bad in the playoffs, you might go after him. But the game's so quick, you don't have time to go after someone's sore knee

or sore ankle or whatever might be ailing him. So I think I'm ready for them to actually tell us exactly what's wrong with those guys. But I'm surprised the gambling hasn't made that happen. Were you surprised that Gary Bettman was so adamant about sending the message that there's no tanking in hockey? Well, he was very careful in the choice of his wording. I think he said that the players and the coaches don't tank. And I think the argument that everyone has made is that that's true,

but management could strip the team down and not give coaches the pieces and, in effect, be tanking. I think that the reality is you're not really improving your your position that much so is it really worth it for a 70 75 chance you're not going to get that player but I think teams have to be bad before they're good you build your team through the draft so I think that's part of a it's hard fans don't want to hear that right our team's tanking like what are we doing? And we don't even get the player.

But the reality is you have to be bad before you can be good. And any team that's done it the right way has had some growing pains. And I think a really good example of that is the patience that Sakic has had and what he's built in Colorado. And another great example is what Eisenman's doing in Detroit and how they're going to be good in a few years because of his patience. For sure. So last one for me, I want to get your thoughts on the tanking team you know well is that Chicago Blackhawks team.

And obviously you know Taves and Kane. Do you think those guys will actually move? Would it actually happen for one, two, both, none of them? What do you think is going to go down there? I think for me, Taze would be the quicker one to move. I think that his desire to win, they both have a desire to win. I think that they both feel tied to the organization. They're in a very difficult decision. It's going to be their choice ultimately.

But it's hard. I think that at the end of the day, they both want to do what's right for the organization. They're both going to end up saying, if you think it'll help, then I'll move on. Tough position for both of them, but I think they both get moved. I think organizationally it would be a really tough thing to not have them move and then they move on anyway at the end of the year. As hard as it is to make that decision,

I think letting it play out makes it easier for the organization to move them. And I think they both get moved is my instinct. Just to stay one more question on the topic of Chicago. And it's always not great for the National Hockey League that original six teams struggle. But we've got two in Montreal and Chicago. Are Chicago Blackhawk fans totally on board on this switch and their patience and their ability to move off of two of the best players in franchise history and everything's going to be okay in Chicago?

I don't know. I don't know. Oh, you have to know. What do you think? You think they'll stay away? If we go back to the early 2000s, man, there were some scary moments in Chicago when you looked in the stands and really didn't see many people. Yeah, they're going to need another Cain or Taze to be drafted.

They will need a special player to come in there and give them hope again. Another Conner, another Bedard. Yeah, I mean, that's the type of thing it's going to take if you lose those two guys, right? So they haven't had a lot of success in a lot of their younger players that they've drafted recently. A lot of them they've moved away. They're traded away anyway.

So, yeah, I think the fans are becoming frustrated, but it'll be interesting to see what happens. This is a pivotal moment and big decisions looming for the organization. Marys, you did a great job, buddy. Really appreciate your time. You're back at work tonight? Yeah, one more night. All right, looking forward to it. Marys, you did a great job, buddy. Really appreciate your time. You're back at work tonight? Yep. One more night.

All right. Looking forward to it. Thanks for doing this, man. Really appreciate it. Jamal Marys. Be well. You good, JB? All good.

Yeah, the man knows his stuff. It was fascinating getting to work with him and hear his thoughts on the Toronto Maple Leafs and some of those more contentious conversations. But Matthew's blocking shots is a fascinating one for me. That is the most mind-blowing stat. I had no idea. Same.

When I saw that, I was... I don't think of him blocking shots. It's like him, then Nick Bonino. Like, that's the type of company he's keeping there i i don't really know how to make i feel like i i kind of feel like you know the the dumb and dumber clip i feel like i'm taking crazy pills because i watch every single night i watch every game i'm locked in and i feel like i never see it happen when does it happen i get hit with a lot of pucks.

Are you feeling the same way, Kipper, here? Like, I feel very dumb at this moment. I don't know. I mean, if I know that he's constantly there, I would think twice about, you know, firing one off his ankle. You wouldn't think twice? No, I wouldn't think twice about it. That's an old Dennis Potvin quote, isn't it?

Something like, if someone slides to block a shot at me, I'll shoot the first one in his face and it won't happen again? Listen, you're trying to win a Stanley Cup playoff round. Yeah, he's blocking shots. That's sociopathic behavior. That can

make you think twice about going, he's not wrong. Danny's not wrong. I'd fight my mom to win another game. There you go. That's Brad May. I lack the mom fighting gene. I think at the last second he would bail out on that. Just catch him in the neck. But up until like that split second, Mayday's got a lot of loose marbles.

The wires can cross. Organize a satchel just in time. Yeah. Yeah. All right. You want to talk about your game last night, your doubleheader, JB, Vancouver Canucks? Yeah.

Do I have to? I mean, man. It was funny because watching Vancouver that first night, you're playing the Blackhawks, new coach at home. Bum, bum, bum. They were Vancouver that first night. You're playing the Blackhawks' new coach at home. Bum, bum, bum. They were flying. Great night. Now, Sammy, I asked you to clip just Rick Talkett.

I have a clip of him. I went through both scrums, which were fascinating. Yes. But I clipped the one clip where he sounds the most positive possible. Yes. So if we could hear the first clip after they beat the Chicago Blackhawks two nights ago. I thought the guys played really hard. You know, we had a lot of power plays early.

And then we had some possession time. Then we got a little antsy. Chicago, I thought Chicago is a really good rush team to get off the rush. They had a couple of chances. But I thought we limited, especially the second half. Guys hung in there. We went to three lines for a little bit,

and I thought they had some short shifts. We got a little antsy, though. Some guys taking long shifts, and we got it back on the rail. So I'm proud of them for doing that. Proud of them. Yeah. He used one more word that I remembered in his scrum that you didn't clip. Oh, the structure one?

Yes. So the context with which he said it in didn't necessarily fit our narrative, so I didn't go with it. I would have avoided that word entirely. Well, he was talking about the top teams, how, you know, how they like the avalanche and all this, and there's certain structures that you need to play with. I don't think he was.

No, I know that. So I didn't want to put our boy on the spot. Okay. I was very journalistic. They outshot Chicago 48-14 in that game. They had 80 shot attempts against Chicago in night one. And, oh, boy, was that not the case against Seattle? It was yakety sacks, Benny Hill.

Would you like to hear the first clip from last night? Very much. That's a good team right there. You know, I don't know if the anxiety caught up to some of the guys, you know, the emotions last week, but that was bad tonight. That was bad. Oh, that

kills me. Oof, he says. Oof, that was bad tonight. He sounds like he's back doing hits with us talking about teams. He sounds like our show. That's him on the panel, I think. You're pretending your kid made you dinner, and you're pretending they did a great job, and you just can't anymore.

And he called his team after game two. Would you like to hear that? Yeah, let's hear the second clip. Yeah, soft. It was a, you know, I hate to call your team soft, but it was soft. You know, we didn't participate on the wall battles. We didn't get a rim out. You know, we knew, you know, this is a good team.

We didn't play predictable. We started regrouping. Like old habits, you Like, old habits came. You know, old habits came. We were just talking to the coach stuff. Man, I wish I had about 10 practices. I really do. And as it shows tonight, we got a lot of work to do.

Sorry. Sorry, Bruce. What are you saying? He's like, 100 practices. That's what he would like. He said, there was other, like, just a clip after that. He's like, yeah, I'm speechless. Speechless.

Crazy. I can't believe he said, he probably regretted the second he said soft. That's quite a thing to say. Or it's like, listen, I'm going to be the guy who has some accountability and calls people out. I know. Here's the problem, though some accountability and calls people out. I know. Here's the problem, though. Trotz mentioned that, too.

Accountability. Where do you go after that, though? You got to, like, I wouldn't, I know it's probably, it's correct. He's not wrong, as Brad May has told us many times on this show. He's not wrong, but... Well, it's not good. Oh, it's not good. Sorry. He's right on that, too. It's not good.

It's not good. But where are you going to go if you need something to rattle them in game five or game 10? Like, I don't know where you go after, you know, you guys are soft. Yeah, well, listen... like you don't know where you go after you know you guys are soft that's like oh yeah well listen you need to save a couple of those bullets down the road soft it was a you know i hate to i think he just fell out of his head he just that's what he saw and what he thought and i i actually like

the idea of clearly establishing a difference in the way things are going to be judged and seen by him. You know, like this is an era that it's going to matter to him. We didn't participate in the wall battles, he says. Which, if you're one of the, you know, eight wingers on the team, you're like, that's me. That's an important spot. Right. Okay. That's a priority for old coach.

You know, this is, I think that's really good. I, you know, I watched them play last night and they chase all over the rink. It's like they got no trust. They run at guys and then they get beat. And it's just like, they need some composure. They need to participate in the wall battles and they need to not be soft. And they need a hundred practices. I've got my, I got my article I wrote today in the wall battles, and they need to not be soft. And they need 100 practices. Yeesh.

I've got my article I wrote today in the Toronto Star that kind of just wraps up a little bit of the Bruce Boudreaux scenario in Vancouver. Sorry, buddy. What's that? I forgot to read it. That's okay. But the gist of my column today is that maybe we're just a little bit too honest these days. Whether it's Jimmy Rutherford or a coach.

I mean, maybe there's just times when you just got to keep it a little closer. I mean, I read that article, a very good article. And I was like, whose team are you on, Kip? You know, we need this stuff. This is the juice. No, no, no, no, no. Now you're thinking like a broadcaster. I am thinking like a broadcaster.

But the whole basis is like, you know, you want the inside stuff. You want to look. You want to draw the curtain. And, you know, there's a chance that you're gonna you're gonna see things that you just don't like and i and i think this was a prime example of that yeah in vancouver where jimmy thought jimmy actually thought that you know he's being honest with his uh fan base and that he's just trying to bring them along in a process and then they found out they didn't like it, and then they just, you know, voiced their opinions quite loudly.

You know, it's funny, and so I've actually, I don't know if I've ever told this story, but when I first came out of rehab, one of the things that you learn in treatment is rigorous honesty. Alcoholics lie a lot. So rigorous honesty. I come out of treatment, rigorous honesty. This is going to be the code I live by. I do an Edmonton radio hit like four days out of treatment. I'm right back into the swing of things. And Greg Brady asked me, you know, what do you think Connor McDavid is

thinking at Edmonton? Well, you know, what's going on with him? I was like, if I'm being honest, I think he wants out. I think he'd like to play anywhere else but Edmonton. I don't think he wants to be there. And I got buried. I do think at that time, the depths of oilerdom for Connor McDavid, I did think that at the time.

It did me no benefit to say that. There was better ways to phrase it better ways to approach it and i think that's the case with coaching with rutherford with whatever is you can think things but to your point your article kipper you need to approach them in a way that appeases the public and know who you're speaking to and you are an entertainment product you don't want them to see the the cracks the, the misunderstandings behind the scenes sometimes. Yeah, and the one thing that stood out for me was

the quote that Jimmy Rutherford had where it's like this thing kind of just took on a life of its own and it ran out of our control and I'm like oh gosh, you kept feeding it. You fed the beast, including to the point where you still have your head coach

and you're basically telling everybody that's willing to listen that you're interviewing other coaches. Yeah. And you're going in the media, you're going on hockey night in Canada saying we have no structure, we have no good systems. Which is okay maybe once.

But when you repeat it over and over and over again. It was a debut episode of After Hours with Scott Oaks. And he's just driving a knife into... Poor old Bruce.

Let them get below 500 before you torch the coach. Just to stay on the Vancouver Canucks and why not? I mean, they continue to be a big story in the coach. I know. Just to stay on the Vancouver Canucks. And why not? I mean, they continue to be a big story in the National Hockey League. Kuzmenko re-signs. Okay. UFA.

RFA, wasn't he? Or UFA? No, I think he was UFA. Well, no, because it was a bridge contract. Wasn't it? I thought he was a RFA, maybe. No. No?

No, no, no, no, no. Okay. You said 26. 26. He's been in the khl forever yeah and his status had him as a ufa and vancouver just signed him to a two-year deal worth 11 million dollars and that you know makes sense for a guy that has barely shown that he could have a great full year. I mean, he might score 35 or 40 goals, but still isn't there on a complete season yet, and now he's commanding $5.5 million. And, I mean, I get it from his perspective and his agent. Like, I get the fact that you want a short-term deal.

You bank $11 million. You let the salary cap come back up in two years. And if you're scoring 35 or 40 goals, you're going to turn that 5.5 into 9 million. But, JB, tell me where this benefits the Vancouver Canucks signing him to a two-year deal. I legitimately looked at that contract and was like, is that a sign-in trade? Like, is that so they can trade him for assets at the deadline? And someone knows it's not a rental? Because, like, he's not going to be a part of their solution when he needs a contract at 28

for a team that should be just turning the corner. Am I crazy there? No, you're on to something for sure. I am flabbergasted by this contract. Flabbergasted. This guy, to me, this is going to – it's just another sort of weird contract for this front office and this you know team that's doing it trade him you're trying to like you're rebuilt i know they're retooling whatever the

hell trade him he's shooting 26 right now sammy and not only god yes not only that you can trade him at his highest value ever a first rounder yes and a top pick and you know why you can trade him at his highest value ever a first rounder yes and a top pick and you know why you can trade him for that oh no no no no i'm gonna tell you why because almost every almost every team could trade for him the guy who's only on it is his cap hit this season jb is like 950 000 oh my god and i was thinking if you're kuzmenkov's kuzmenko's camp you're like cap hit this season, JB is like $950,000. Oh, my God. And I was thinking if you're Kuzmenkov's camp, you're like, I don't need trade protection or anything like that because if you trade me, it's to a contender.

You're going to trade me to a good team. You are. And every contending team can pick up his million dollars. You want to go get another 30-goal score? You've got to pick up a $9 million cap hit there's that's such a great point and makes it even more even more attractive and even more insane that they signed him to this contract well no it's not if they trade it no no no no and the contract doesn't kick into next year you're going to keep the one million that's what you don't want to necessarily do is now

stare at 5.5 million next year if if you can't handle it or you don't want them or you got to move money out so what you did was you just basically killed his value that he has right now first of all i i assume that there's been promises that hey we're not we're not putting you to two years to so we can trade you right no they signed him to keep him for two more years or at least next year right i don't know maybe not maybe not maybe they're like look we're gonna get you somewhere good we'll get you a couple years so then why would you what then then then why sign them let them walk out the door get your first and a prospect,

and then bring him back in the summer? Well, because don't you think you wouldn't get a first and a prospect if he didn't have some sort of extended contract? No, I think it's the opposite. Agree. I think it's the opposite. You don't force teams to take on that salary next year. I see. Right?

Yeah. That's all. And this team is not going anywhere in the next two years. So I don't get it. Is it a contract? If he just stays in Vancouver at 5-5, that's mind-blowing to me about what they're trying to do there, what they're trying to build. And I'm just looking at Cat Friendly here, and they update it so quickly, which is so nice of them. It has a modified no-trade clause on the next two years with a 12 team no trade list.

Again, handcuffs. Handcuffs. You got to stop giving guys no trades, man. My God, this is Andre Kuzmenko. He's played 47 games in the league. No trade protection? Who negotiated that? Anyways.

It's got to be our boy Milstein. He's brilliant. Yeah, that's got to be Dan thestein well he's brilliant was that yeah that's gotta be dan the man he's brilliant because uh i mean he's holding all the cards and again all you you know if it's jimmy rutherford who negotiated this deal i don't understand why you give him 12 teams that he can say no to it just in case you'd want to move him because your team still stinks in a year and a half. Vancouver Canucks, man. There's a drop.

I'm not writing about Vancouver the rest of the year. There's a drop right there. They are. They've taken years of my life, let alone their fans. Oh, man. Imagine we were doing this show in that market. Imagine being Halford and Brough. Oh, my God. Poor Jason came on our show. It was like like you know oh it's no different than here like they're probably doing

huge numbers or really bad like i'm sure they've got the hottest uh podcast going out there right now so true much worse to be covering like i don't know minnesota or something you know um so bruins and tampa play tonight which is a spectacular hockey match that i will be taking in somehow they're both gonna get two points three uh it's going to overtime for sure for the least sake yeah did you see the the picture of jack edwards uh he went he went and apologized to Pat Maroon. Yeah. Now, anything other? I didn't see much. Anything written about it that we haven't heard? I saw the picture.

My first thought is that, and it's Jack Edwards scrunched down while Pat Maroon is still tying his skates or untying his skates. Yeah, Pat Maroon is Rory McIlroy, and he's not looking at Patrick Reed. He's trying to chat at him. Yeah, I'm a big body language guy, and Pat Maroon didn't give him exactly the time of day according to his body language. So I always screw up this guy's last name.

Is it Eric Erlton? Definitely not. Erlton it Eric Erltsen? Definitely not. Erltsen? Eric Erltsen? Erltsen. Erltsen. Erltsen. Erltsen.

Thank you very much. That was pathetic. But he tweeted out that the first meeting between Bruins and Pat Maroon since December, since what he said, and then you go and you look at the tweet, and Eric says it's not exactly going well for Edwards is what he said and then you go and you look at the tweet and eric says it's not exactly going well for edwards is what he says as this was a private conversation even in a public setting it's not my place to share exactly what was said unless either party wishes to reveal but i will say it's evident maroon is still displeased with the situation so really not a bruise not a big

back down guy huh no and I think it's I'll give credit, wouldn't you give credit to Jack Edwards? Yes 100% and I don't want to do that, but I will when there's been a wrongdoing, it has to start with an apology somewhere, and as long

as it's sincere then you could maybe work on, you know, maybe an eventual meeting of the minds. You know what you do is you tell Edwards to match the donation you made to charity and then you just never talk to him again. Yeah. I do.

Listen, there's parts of me that I like Jack Edwards. There is. I get it sometimes that you become this, you know, this almost character of yourself. He's got a shtick. He thinks that he needs to go certain places for the loyal Boston Bruin fans. If I'm not mistaken, he's paid by the Boston Bruins. We do not agree.

He's not. You know, he puts pressure on himself to be a homer. Let's put it that way. Yeah. And sometimes he can screw up like sometimes you, JB, or you, Sam. Listen. Not me. 100%.

I get it. I've had to listen to too many famous calls of that guy screaming about the Leafs getting buried by the Bruins. Yeah, I know, but it's not a good relationship. But Boston Bruins fans love it. Do they? It's their only target audience. His only target audience is just feeding the

Boston Bruins tattoo. Oh, maybe. At least he apologized. Yeah, no. Anyway. He's doing something right. At least he apologized. I mean. Yeah, no. Hey, I'll give him credit for that. Or at least he tried anyways.

Yeah. Hey, enjoy the winter concert there, pal. Yeah. Yeah, thanks. I'm rushing out the door. Pictures. We want lots of pictures. Yeah, yeah.

Pictures coming, fellas. Great job, JB, today via satellite. Sammy, always a pleasure. Derek, Jen, and our thanks to barry trotz and jamal mars all right have a great night everybody stay safe once again give us a rating and review we'd love to hear from you on the real kipper and born show We'll see you next time.