Real Kyper & Bourne - Coaching Candidates + Is the Matthews Window Already Closed?

Episode Date: May 15, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with a look into the Toronto Maple Leafs' offseason. They discuss Vincent Trocheck's name popping up as a possible trade target, why the Leafs should take Matthew Knies off the table, and the decision around Matias Maccelli. Then, Sportsnet.ca's Luke Fox (14:57) joins the guys to share his thoughts on the team's decision to fire Craig Berube, why it didn't work out for him in Toronto, the best-available coaching candidates, why Bruce Cassidy doesn't seem like a realistic option, and why Auston Matthews asking out might not be the worst thing for the Leafs in the long run. Finally, Nick, Justin and Sam listen to your calls and questions on the Leafs Line! The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right. Off the rails Friday. Is this our last two-hour show of the season? Yes. Will we continue to have Mac even when we're one hour? I think yes. Sammy? I'm going to have to hunch over because my mic.

Again. It works, but it's just like, I don't know what happened. Sammy, Sammy. He's now a prop comic. So, woo. Slide whistle. Wherever you are watching and, listening to the real Kipperman Borne show.

We're glad you're along for the ride. Nick Kiprios, Justin Boren, Sammy McKee, Frank the Tank, Derek Brandeo. So to answer your question, yes. This is indeed our last two-hour show of the year. Unless there's massive breaking leafs news of some kind, which there will be.

Well, they had the coach. We'll do another bonus hour. So we'll mix some stuff in, but starting on Monday, We will be live on all the places you usually find us at 3 p.m. 3 p.m. to 4 p.m. Eastern time. So there you go. It's time of year where my wife's happy. I pick my kids out from school. Oh, and play golf.

What a time. You can be a better time. I don't think you're listening to get it as much. Get ready to learn golf, buddy. Well, at least for today, we are live on Sportsnet at 360, 590 the fan in Toronto, streaming always on SportsSat Plus. If you miss our show, can't catch it live. Don't fret.

Okay. Don't panic. Spotify, Apple podcast, and YouTube. Plenty of options. Plenty of options. All right. Where do you guys want to go? Are we talking Blue Jays?

Because that's the jersey that you left up on the... Quite frankly, I was panicking about my microphone situation and I didn't even look over there. That's okay. I can change it. Hardly ever look. I don't think you need to. Just leave it.

Okay. We're real Blue J here. Yeah, we're good. The first blocks over. We're good. Okay. Luke Fox is going to join us in a few minutes. We haven't had Luke on since a lot of craziness, I guess.

Shane Donne gone, Craig Brewy gone. Yep. Chica in. So. I got questions for him and questions for you too. All right. And we got Doug McLean at the top of the hour. Yep.

Off the rails. If I'm not mistaken, is he back in P.E.I? He's got a hot day tonight. He's got to go. He's going to some hockey game. So he's got us on the. He said he got till 520. Oh, stop it.

520. So you should be able to get one question in and. This is the guy that we say, hey, Mac, thanks for joining us. And he stays on the line. When we had him here on the one time when you weren't here, we didn't even get a question in. And he was like, how about the wild fourth line before we even got to say hello? Just wanted to talk about it.

And we've got leaf line. Oh, yeah. And we got some good ones today. I would say we have six or seven of them. But I would say it is extreme quantity over quality today. Or other way around. Quality over quantity. Okay.

So some really good ones. Really good ones. Where do you want to go, J.B.? I want to ask you about, you know, you kind of keep track of all the rumors and things people are saying out there. Who knows what? One of the names that I heard in the last day or two is Vincent Trocheck. And I don't know.

I'm just throwing this out there as a potential name. But that's the first name I heard where I was like, that's exactly what they need. 32 he makes 5.6 million for a few years he gets 20 goals and 60 points like clockwork competitive center yeah good player Colorado's 30th pick Colorado's first rounder that the Leafs have does that do it no no okay no what else do I need um I don't know Eastern Cowan oh come kick rocks but what would the Rangers want first of all you couldn't get him to Minnesota nobody wants

He wanted him more than Billy Garon. Yeah. So you tell me, first rounder, what is that going to do for the Rangers? Yeah, no, I understand. Well, it depends how long their rebuild is, I suppose. And then what's left to a value? Yeah, they need more than that for Trocheck, for sure. I totally agree with that.

But the one thing I've, here's the conclusion I've drawn in the last two weeks of reading people's comments. Quit trading Matthew Nyes. Enough. They intend to win hockey. I saw people be like, what about, the fourth overall pick of Chicago. You want the fourth for Matthew Nyes? What are the chances the fourth overall pick

is as good as a 30 goal score guaranteed, no risk involved who's six, he's a tank and 24 years old? This is where you've got to pick a side here. Yeah. And there's either the side that says you're going to build towards the next four or five years, or you're going to build

to build a championship team still around Austin Matthew's. So to your point, it doesn't make any sense to move Matthew Nyes. You don't even know that you're getting a guy who will be in an effective NHL or there are misses it for. This guy's, he doesn't turn 24 until October. He's 23. 6.3, 220.

Yeah. Kind of points. Top line. You can't move Matthew Nyes and then replace where he is right now in his career with anyone else. No chance. If you are going to compete next year and they say they are, every trade I hear about the Leafs are going to get the second overall pick or the way. You only do these things if Matthews is gone.

And if he's not gone, there's no, that you're trying to win. Then you have to keep Matthew Nyes. So take him out of all your trades for the second and the full. and whatever other picks. But what if it's like the Montreal thing? Until you find out for sure where Austin is. And then for sure have the conversation. But to me, he's Brandon Hagel.

You'd be trading him to be like, this doesn't line up with our timeline. It's like he's unbelievable. Have the awesome guy for his career rather than trade him to someone else to have his awesome career because you had some timeline thought. I think all of what you just said is totally fair. and I think a lot of it is driven by how just sort of bad this whole season was for everybody.

And, you know, he was kind of, he had the really good offensive start, tons of assists. Then he was kind of banged up, but was he banged up. And like, he was like, it just, it wasn't. Surely he was. Listen, I just, I think that people are maybe off the scent a little bit of how good Matthew Nyes is and what he can be just because it was a down year for him. It was a down year for the whole team. Lesher just sucked. And I think if you're trading Matthew Nyes right now,

you're trading him at a perceived way lower, you know, spot than you would want to be trading an asset like that. It just would be a stupid decision to trade him at this point. Like what if they're going to, the Montreal thing where it's like, it's all their top prospects, whatever it is, it's Jacob Fowler, whatever that trade was going to be. Okay, maybe whatever. You can talk me into something like that.

But just to get the fourth overall pick for, like, that's insane to me. No, no. Matthew Nyes is three pieces. For sure. Yeah. Like three really good pieces minimum. When you get three, one of them is always a disappointment. And then it's down to two.

And then like, are they better than Nyes and when? I think, I think if somebody was coming to talk to Chica, who's here he doesn't draft anybody, he has no loyalty to anyone other than maybe Matthews, it seems at this point. But like, if someone's going to come here and absolutely blow him away for Matthew Nyes, I'm sure he's going to listen.

But it's not for one pick in the draft. I got to say, I feel pretty good about Chica's arrival in terms of keeping Matthew Nyes. Because I felt like Nyes was, they had them hanging out the window of the moving car. And this guy's pulling them back in, I hope. Yeah. I do get a sense, though, for John Chika, it's like he's just warming up to get his fingerprints all over this. And it's not going to be a kind of a quiet intro into. next season.

I think... Like, it's gonna look real different. I think it's... Six, seven different bodies last year. I think he's gonna start swinging pretty soon here. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Music to my ears.

This is just me and the perception he's giving me is like, just you wait and see how this is going to feel like my team. My team and the captain who is not sure if he wants to be here wants it to be different. They want to be competitive. Like, they're incentivized to do stuff. But... First week, and you're hearing

Vinny Trochex name. It's also maybe go big or go home kind of territory. But like the last guy didn't go big and he went home in two years. You know,

or was it maybe he's too? Yeah. But you know, there's no guarantees that going small. I know, but you don't want to be Kikka doesn't want to be

Brad Tree living in two years. No, he doesn't. But I think you'd rather go out trying to do it your way than... But I think you have to be careful here when you're talking about different.

Like if you're going to be finding undervalued guys and bringing in different bodies, I just hope it's not like we're trading whatever futures we have in terms of picks for the next few drafts. Back to selling. Back to being like, we're all in again. Like I hope that there's, you know, there's differences, but it's not them pushing all these chips into the middle for win now guys.

Funny you say that because I'm writing an article on, you know, the coach and what they need and the players know what they need. Just like, okay, what are the, what's the wish list here? And you don't want to be a seller all of a sudden. And there's still. Like, do you think that's what, is that what you mean when you say that? Like, your opinion. Like, do you think that the opinion is he's going to go, whether it's a wow name or just a

under the radar name. It's different. It's going to, it's going to kind of feel still different out there. And then, and then there's also, you know, there's also question marks on like a guy like Machelli. where it was like, couldn't find a spot. What is he? Towards the end of the year, it looked better when they just played them, right?

When it was done. When they sucked, it looked better. But it's like September call-ups back of the day, but he can't be fooled by those games. But his numbers are good, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, 40 points, almost 15 goals. But outside of that, like his underlying numbers. Yeah, his defensive stuff.

He's very break-even. And Chica drafted him. He did? Yes. He drafted him. Really? So I don't know what that means. I know that's a good draft for it because he took him on the fourth round at 98th overall.

Fresh sheet of ice here, right? For a guy like Micheli? That's okay. You know, I'm not the end of the world. I just, it can't be, and also domy and also Cowan and also Robertson and also McKenna. now you're just this little, little team. Little guy.

You don't be a little guys. Here come the little guy. No one wants that. So, yeah, they would have to be, my problem with Machelli is, is tough fit for me. Not a top, not good enough offensively to be top sis. He's not like Zuckarillo or, you know, he's not that. What did they get to?

And so is he bottom six? That's a tough spot for his style, I guess third line. What do you think they, what do you think? What do you guys think they would have to pay them? Like he's an RFA and it's not going to be a big contract. What do you make last year? 325. 325.

3.45. Really? Like is it going to be more than that? He's restricted. Yeah, he's RFA. Yeah. So, I don't know. I mean.

Wouldn't his qualifying offer have to be that and then if you choose to not qualify him, you can go lower, but you probably qualify him? Yeah. It would be right around that ballpark. Interesting. Or you walk. Mm-hmm. Right?

You might have to, but I think people would be bothered by that. So we're going to have Luke coming up here in a couple minutes. Sorry, I'm just going to well as thoughts on my mind. You could, if you're not going to qualify him, you could probably trade him. I imagine with his numbers last year at 25, you could trade that contract, maybe get a pickback. Yeah. Go ahead. So maybe we'll ask Luke a little bit more of this, but I think what's going to be really fascinating just over these next little bit, like you said, just how different it's going to be.

just learning about this because it's been a long time since Chike has been in the league. I mean, 2020 was the last year that he was in Phoenix and just seeing what he does every move is just going to be like a little bit of a, you know,

just a little peek inside what his philosophy is going to be because you've listened to him interviewed boys. He's not going to tell you anything. There's not going to be anything interesting that comes out in the media. So you're going to have to really learn from like these little moves he makes and who he's going to trade for

and whatever. It's going to tell you more and more about what he wants to do. It's going to be fascinating. It's fun to have a fresh, different person to try to have a different look at it. Is it not? Oh, yeah. He actually for sure alive. But even as a fan, I sense that people are kind of excited about this, that it's something different.

Yeah. In a few minutes, we'll get Luke Fox to join us. NHL writer for Sportsnet.com. He does a great job covering the Leaves all season long. He's got some candidates, I think, in a story out on Sportsnet.com, with a ton of names. As we know, the number one name out there is Bruce Cassidy. I told you guys, I had this suspicion that the ball's in his court for the

Edmonton Oilers, whether or not he's still down that path, it's out there for him. And for the Leafs to get to him, I think he has to say no to the Edmonton Oilers. And I don't think that's happened yet. Freed was kind of alluding to the fact that it's, you know, unlikely to be, I think I think I saw unlikely to be the least coach from him. I think maybe he said that on the hockey show today. So, I mean, it's just kind of feels like once the Golden Knights stop being petulant about everything, maybe, maybe they'll let him get in a good coach.

I can't wait to hear you talk on the Golden Knights in the NHL hour, Sammy. Oh, I think I have thoughts. I think you got thoughts. Yeah, I got a couple thoughts. All right, let's welcome him in. Luke Farr. Sportsnet.ca's very own. Luke, what's going on, buddy?

It's all quiet out there. It's just, what do you do now? No leaves for the last little while. What do you got going? I went and saw a hockey game for the first time since Craig Barube's last game. I dropped down to Buffalo. Oh. Just got back from Buffalo.

Yeah. It was great. It was a really entertaining hockey game. Yeah. So if there's a game seven, I think I'm going to go down again, watch Sabres Habs. but the way Montreal played, I don't know. I don't know if we're going to get a seven. They look pretty good.

I felt like Buffalo looked deflated at the end there. Okay, jog my memory. Have you been on the show since Craig Brewy's been dismissed? I've been on a bunch of shows. I can't remember. None of us can remember. We can go to the team. That makes three of us.

So your initial thoughts on whether or not you really thought that there was a chance he was going to return, not return. Chica certainly put his stamp on things. Just your overall thoughts, first of all. Yeah, not a huge surprise. I thought there was a slim chance they may hang on to him, but for all the wrong reasons, basically, like, just because of the pattern,

Kyle Dubas keeping Babcock way longer than he should have. Bradford Living, hanging on to Sheldon Keefe, probably longer than he should have, just because, you know, pattern of the general manager wanting to save his bullets. Hey, I don't have to bring in my guy quite yet. It buys me a little time. I can learn something from the coach that's already that I've inherited.

And then, of course, I think there was some scuttle, but that, hey, they're paying Craig Baroube for two years, whether he coaches or not. Maybe let's try him for the beginning of 26, 27, because it might save the company some money. But there was no real good hockey reasons to keep them. So I'm glad that, you know, kind of sanity prevailed here. I just want to say, though, like, I really enjoyed covering Craig Brubay. He was like a stand-up guy. Love the game. Was very great to work with. And, you know, he's a hockey lifer. And I wouldn't be surprised if he lands behind a bench. I don't know. I don't know if he's going to get a head job. I know that there's already some scuttle.

about him landing in Edmonton, but he's probably their second or third choice at best. But I do like the refresh. I do like the feeling that, okay, we're doing something new here. And there's momentum. Part of that momentum's due to luck,

winning the first overall pick. But I think part of the momentum is that they were relatively quick and decisive on this. They didn't meet for five days in Hem and Hawn, leaving him dangling. They met over the weekend and they made a decision and they moved on. And I like that. So what do you think it was about his time here that didn't work?

Because again, everyone liked the man. I don't know how the players felt necessarily, but he leaves with his dignity and respect from everyone in the market. But what didn't work in terms of whether it's X's nose personality or otherwise? Yeah, I mean, some of the players even admitted buy-in. And I don't think that's buy-in to the kind of guy he was or they didn't like him. but they didn't like his style to play. They didn't.

In order to play chip and chase, get it to the point, crowd the net, get garbage goals, then lock it down to one. You have to be committed. It's a hard style to play. And I thought there was an alignment between the guys he had on the roster and the type he wanted to play. And then he didn't want to adjust. He just wanted to keep banging the same drum.

And eventually they tuned him out. these guys want to play a possession game. And it starts from the top. So if William Neelander and Austin Matthews, and they didn't come out and say that they, hey, we disagree with the coach. But if you sense that from your best guys that they're not fully committed and they would prefer to play a different way, I think there's a trickle-down effect to that.

And then part of his play, he needs better defensive forwards. There's like a lot of forwards there that aren't that great defensively. He tried to coach them like they were the 19 blues And they weren't the 19 blues No he could have used like David Camp For Pontus Holmberg or something like that But those guys are tough to find Sorry over to you Kiff

So Luke you were right there Watching you know this relationship Between Willie and and you know Ruby at times it was like We had a lot of fun with it The quotes the let Willie be Willie And I leave him alone And all of that

it's safe to say that Willie wouldn't have had any issues at all with buy-in from Chief? I felt like there was a generational gap there. I think they, so I'll tell you a story. There was a practice towards the end when things started to go sideways. And William Nealander was kind of coasting through a power play drill. and wasn't moving the puck with any purpose and then wasn't shooting it. And Brubay, you know, yells at him,

hey, Willie, shoot the puck. Shoot the puck if you got to look. Look, shoot the puck. So they start the drill again, and he just immediately shoots it. He doesn't even pass it. He doesn't even start the drill. And Brubay's like,

Willie, stop being such a D word. And it's like he was just kind of like having fun with him, but he never really took it seriously. Seriously, right? Like, it was kind of like the coach is trying so hard. I want this guy. He's the highest paid guy. He's the most skill guy I have. My captain is on a hospital bed somewhere. I want this guy to do the drill properly and lead by example. And Willie was kind of like, oh, man, like, it's the season's over. And it's like they weren't on the same page. Brubay was still trying to instill a work ethic, instill some standards. and Nealander had kind of checked out at that point. And I think it's not great for the culture. I mean, it wasn't a bad situation, but it was just kind of indicative of the gap there, the disconnect.

Totally. Like that's kind of what I saw too. It's like I don't know that those guys thought he was a brilliant tactician or the guy who had the plan. And I think that was reflected in how they carried themselves. So you put out an article and have listed some candidates for the job, seven of them, in fact. I'll let you take it from there on sort of your thoughts on how serious some of these names are,

or at least why you included them on the list. Yeah, I mean, some I just wanted to put on because there's some buzz about them, and then just wanted to add some names that maybe people aren't thinking about. You know, I made some calls before I put the list out. Cassidy, in my mind, the best coach that doesn't have a job. I think he's going to end up in Edmonton unless there's some sort. sort of shenanigans that happen and they block them. And I also don't think the Leafs aren't ready for Cassidy right now.

I think Cassidy wants to win. The Oilers want to win. That seems like the best fit in my mind. Some buzz about Mani Malhotra. So I think he's worth including on the list. He was with the Leafs for four years. Excellent reputation around the league. I've never heard anyone say a bad word about Mani.

although I do think there's questions about, okay, is he ready to be a head coach in the NHL, particularly in this market? I know he served as an assistant for a while. He won a Calder Cup down with Abbotsford. But then this year, Abbotsford had a horrible season, didn't even make the playoffs. And I do think Vancouver, from what I understand, they haven't made up their mind whether they're going to stick with Adam Foote yet or if they would even grant permission to let Manny go. So I think there would be interest in Toronto's part to at least talk to Manny, but I don't know where Vancouver lands on him. If they want to say, hey, he's ours.

I mean, that's exactly what happened with their GM down there in Ryan Johnson. You know, other teams start poking around. They said, okay, wait, wait, wait, we might want to keep him. So I think Manny might, and he has obviously a great relationship with Johnson. So that one might be off the table. And then David Carl, you know, he seems to be the hot. name out there because he's won a bunch of NCAA championships with Denver. But from my understanding, if he does make the jump, it's kind of like, you know,

I kind of liken it to the hunters in London. He's already got like a really good thing going on. So if he were to leave something very comfortable, he would want a ton of term, a bunch of money, and he would probably want to say. Can I shop you right now? Yeah. We did that already with Babcock. a ton of money

I don't think it's a good Dave Haxthal do that coming out of college Same idea A bunch of money A big name at the time Yeah I don't know if you had quite the past Like this I think this guys won

Three Championships And that's crazy by the way Those tournaments are single game elimination To win three championships in college It's pretty nuts And they get And there's so much money down there Like I don't know what he makes right now

But I'm sure it's like quite good money At this point And I I would rather them like try to find the next Dan Mews or Marty St. Louis. I mean, it's probably not going to be someone out of junior, coaching junior. But I would like to get creative and find someone they can build with the next wave of leaves. So the head coach of the Marley's, they've got some success there now on a nice role.

How much stock is going up for John Gruden? I think the farther he goes, the more his name is going to get talked. All right. So, I mean, we're looking at it. as Sheldon Keefe kind of feel, right? Win a championship and you're next in line. Why not talk to him? And, you know, and he's worked with a bunch of these guys, right?

Bo Gru, Easton Cowan's down there right now. William Villanoova, I think, is probably going to want to try and make the team next year. So it's worth considering. But I like the fact, and I hope he's serious, that Chaka says he wants to do a wide search, like expand it. Get, you know, take your time. I don't think they need to be in a rush the way the Oilers are in a rush. Yeah, I think that's fair.

I know a guy I played four years ago. Davis Payne has been a head coach in the league is an awesome coach. That's an interesting name. I like Jay Woodcroft. Like there's definitely some names who've been around the league. But I'm with you, Luke. It's not impossible to find someone who just hasn't got that opportunity yet. Any idea how soon?

Like, I know we want to cast a wide net, but it'd be nice to have some idea who it's going to be right. And as I'm saying that, I'm wondering, Matthews is going to care who they hire quite a bit. He's probably not going to want some guy he's never heard of. Is that a fair thought I just had? I don't know. It's an interesting thought. But we all thought that is Sidney Crosby and Evgeny Malcolm and Eric Carlson,

are they going to listen to Dan Mews coming out from the shadows? He's a good soldier though, pal. Yeah. Not sure that we... I agree. I agree. You know, I got a couple names floated out to me like Jack Capuano, you know, who was a head coach and now is just stayed in the game as an assistant. And that was the Cassidy and Brube model.

Like they had early cracks as the head guy, didn't work, learned a lot, and then just kind of sunk back, you know, off to the wings and applied their trade as an assistant and waited for another chance to be a head guy. Mike Yo was another name brought up to me. So that's not, hey, we're circling these guys. We're going to try and get them. But it's just there is a whole group of guys at the HL level and guys who are assistants that want another crack. So why not talk to half a dozen of them and see who fits? One thing I think about this search is I think they should decide what style of hockey they want to play and what kind of culture they want and then find a coach that fits that as it.

opposed to just grabbing a name and then trying to fit their program to what the new coach wants. Look, the one thing that I've yet to hear in Sidney Crosby's career with years on his contract left is reports that he's not sure if he was going to return to Pittsburgh or not. And, you know, I'm referring to Chris Johnson's report in the athletic. And what do we know since then? Are we still, like, just left with that out there that he may not still come back? And if Matthews, and if coaching was an issue, like, there's more because we haven't heard any response at all from him or the Leafs on squashing, you know, that report? I don't know what he's going to say, Nick. I think he already said what he's going to say.

is he going to put out a statement like he did at his final press conference before he flew back to Arizona and that I don't know what the future holds. I love being a leaf, but who knows what's going to happen? Like, I don't think he has an answer. So I don't know what kind of statement he's going to make. And then I also think it's a dangerous game. You start making statements based on every report. I would like to think that he's encouraged that they got the number one pick.

I would like to think that he's encouraged that they're making a change at the coaching position and probably bringing in a guy that's younger than 60 that doesn't want to play chip and chase. How about just a simple statement that I'm excited for next year?

So they fire the coach and then he says, now I'm excited. At some point, at some point, though, there's ways to go around it, I think. No? Well, they need an event to happen that isn't another man's demise before you come out and say,

now I'm in. I have a charity softball game. I don't know. You're right, though. They look for a pocket to get back in. Go visit a children's hospital and get something out. But if you're Matthews, it's not like you could even resign right now.

You've got two more years. He's under no deadline. And the other thing is, I think he want, I don't know if it's a great thing if you're a fan of the Leafs, but I think he wants to see what happens with the wrong. roster. Who's playing, who's on my wing? Is it Max Domi again? And what happens if it is? Is it Ivers Stonberg? What happens if it is? Then he's out. Okay, he's out. He wants Ivers Denberg. With that, if he wants out, is that the worst thing? No. No is the answer. I feel

in my opinion, the window is already closed. You know, you might as well move on. I think you start building around if it's McKenna, Nyes, Cowan. I just came from watching Montreal. They're young, they're fun. I think. Luke, with all due respect to that, then it's like plan B. Because they've already laid their cards out for plan A. It's around Matthews.

It's around Nylander. That's plan A. I agree. I agree that's their plan A. Not everyone gets to do. But plan B might be the right plan. Because rebuilds pick you. Love that line.

All right. Thanks, pal. Good to see you. Thanks. Have good weekend. Look at how relaxed you are. You haven't found a razor in what three or four days? Look at you.

You're already on vacation. Yeah, it's a long weekend. Thanks, Luke Foxx. I'm celebrating the queen. We all are. Absolutely. Thanks, Luke. Yeah.

So I guess just wait until training camp. If he shows up, he shows up. No, but there's a difference. between May 14th and 15th and July 3rd. Okay, July 3rd. Yeah. Okay. All right.

I just wait until July 3rd. I didn't pick a random date. It's a couple days after free agency. Okay. You're both right, though. Like, you can't come out right now. Can't come out right now, but you can't just let it sit there. You can't.

You can't. Like, you're right. How'd the Austin Matthews Celebrity All-Star softball game at Christy Pitts? I'm yes. You go there. And just... Convicted felon. Just be like,

I really like Toronto. Now watch this drive. The old George Bush line. The old George Bush. That's an all-timer. Stop this talk about me wanting to leave. I don't know. Now watch this swing.

Well, do you guys see Quinn Hughes took care of some, this sort of issue in Minnesota today? It's legal. You're allowed to say, yeah, yeah, like it. Want to stay. Open. That's what he left us with, right? He's open to resign there.

But he's right, too. right just a bunch of guys who are writing the show but he's under caught like he's not eligible to sign like what's he can be like i'm gonna sign here in two more years and he wants to pressure the team to get better good that's a competitive thing to do it it may work i don't know i just it may not but sid wouldn't do it may not mac wouldn't maybe he should have just leaves everybody oh yeah because it's wasted some of his years all those three cups and gold medals and all that stuff you know 2017 pal's been been a while yeah i did not mean to be anticrossed for eight seconds i love sid said i'm sorry he's not even the captain of our canadian team dear fault get me started i'm so mad about that okay quick break yeah let's hit a break and then when we come back our very own sammy's got leaf line did you pick some good ones today that some great calls we got some great calls we did all right

and a couple of them may or may not be about mitch martin you are not going to want to miss this Come on. More Real Kippen-Borne after the break, Leafline. Hey, it's Ben Annes. And I'm Brent Cunning. We got you covered on all things, Leafs, Rafters, and Blue Jays. Every weekday morning, 6 to 9.

It's the fan morning show. Sportsnet 590 The Fan and wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back in studio. Nick Kipriot, Justin Boran, Sammy McKee. Yeah. A friendly reminder that come Monday, yeah. We go to one hour.

And also a friendly reminder that you guys are such great Rogers employees that both of you will be working on the Victoria Day long weekend Monday. Hell yeah. I will not be. I will be in on sound. But you guys are such great employees.

You're not committed to the cause. No, he's not. He said it. Any more mean tweets and, you know, he's not coming into work. He's out. He's out. Yeah.

You guys want to listen to some mean calls? Mead ones. They're not mean. They're really not mean. They're good. Let's start with, let's start I forget

I always forget let's go to Tommy and Scarborough Tommy and Scarborough It really is crazy what a couple weeks can do eh It felt hopeless well probably still is

because it's the least Markers but no Sandine comes in win the lottery new coach and it doesn't feel like

it's about Matthews Willie you know McCabe and Tenev the goalies whether they can bounce back it feels like we have an actual

like U-24 Corp coming up now with Nyes, McKenna, Cowan, Danford, Akiyama, looks like it could be a guy. There's a couple other good prospects that look like they could be alright, like Halenka and Chadwick. And even without the two first rounders the next couple years, you have the Aves first rounder. We have 60 and 69 overall this year.

We have, you know, an actual future ahead of us, it feels like. So, you know, it feels like we can actually get this thing moving in the right direction and I'd like to hear if you guys think the same. All right, have it going, so Tommy. So, Tommy.

Love it, Tommy. No, no, no, no. Scarborough, Ontario. What a great phone call. What a guy. Are you done? Yeah. Tommy's into the three to five.

I'll wait three to five years. No playoffs. Just slow build. That's what Tommy just said. No, he didn't. Yeah, he did. Under 24. That doesn't include Matthews,

Nealander, John Tavarves, Morgan Riley. Under 24, future. Were you paying attention you too? Yeah, he's saying they got a future. He didn't say that they, we have to lop everyone off who's 25 and older. Yeah, it's not what I got out of that. Well, I think maybe we need to relist. I think we're just, I think we're trying to turn him into like a coach here.

I think Tommy from Scarborough is being pretty straight out. We have a guy. We got a future. Yeah. Kipper's like, what does he really mean? That's what he means. I know. What I see is the Dallas Stars.

He's giving you picks in the 16. overall picks. No, I see the Dallas stars. That's what I see. Old core, young core, whole existing. Everything including McKenna is

three to four years. I mean, until they're prime. Yes. Until they're like key guys trying to win you a Stanley Cup. But like... Would the future head of us it feels like?

Would the Leafs fans and Tommy not take what the Dallas stars have been? They haven't want to but they've been very good while they're getting contributions from it was logan stankov and it's maverick bork it's thomas harley it's who else have they had for young guys there's another one jason robertson you know they've had young guys supplementing the ben segin duchane older core and it's the same guy now mark leach making the picks it's also what is considered one of the better goalies in the league

still and leaps have had that mero heskinin one of the best defensemen in the best defenseman the league. Well, Tommy said we have Acquim of. He could be a guy. That's what Tommy said. In what three years? But also, Kip, those are such different things to me. Because I'm not offended by three years.

I'm offended by five years. Yeah, me too. You know, you don't need five years. That's a, that's B. It's between three and five. What's that number then? Four? Three and a half?

Three and a half? Four? But it's just the window. That window to me is what Tommy's talking about. If they traded Matthews, you're looking at the, that for sure. But I do think you can win games, contend for the playoffs, and have good seasons in that

maybe we're just talking about different things. You're talking about Stanley Cup. We're talking about the Montreal Canadiens build. Yeah. Yeah. That's what we're talking about. A blueprint like that. Listen, they're playing great. They haven't won anything yet either. That's a five-year plan for sure. You know, if you're talking about selling Matthews, drafting a couple guys, all that sort of stuff. Yep. That's all I heard. But I would count

last year as one of those. Well, Tommy, Kipper managed to turn your unbelievably positive call into Nate. It's a good point, though. It doesn't feel as bleak as it did. I agree. And I've made that point. Hope, baby. Hope.

That's 60 years. Hope. Didn't have it last year. It's Friday the long weekend. Just give in a little bit of hope. Come give the people. I got a ton. Yeah, right.

I do. In honor of the queen. You're going to be like this on this long weekend. I like. I like the build around this pick. Yeah. That's what I like. Let's go to Mira.

in Kitchener? I wanted to call in and talk about something that I haven't really heard anyone else talking about with the overall vibes of the last week. I think the vibes are getting better. My whole thing that I'd been thinking about was nothing changes until something changes. And we've had change at the GM level. We've now had change at the coaching level. But we've been talking a lot about how we can't just tape grit to the core.

and so my scariest with drafting Gavin McKenna is I'm wondering if we're just going to be doing the same thing does Gavin McKenna have that grit to lead a core that we've been looking for what do you guys think? We've had that conversation by the way we have okay I'm going to say you know what

it's the long week like I'm not sure I want McKenna to be like learning from Austin Matthews as the captain. What a statement that is. I want to be like, hey, you know. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Is that too harsh? So we went from Mirro's concern, grit, to yours leadership.

Yeah. Above grit. I think there's a world where McKenna, he's a little squirrely and he had, like, he's not going to fight anybody. But like, I think if you're, brought up other guys around him with Cowan's a little bit of a squirrelly guy. You brought up other guys around him. Like there's a world where you can see them having a bit of grit to their game.

Okay. Like they're not going to be terrified of a scrum like a lot of them have been over the past years. But like having them come up under Matthews and Nylander where it's just like, I don't know, man. It's just I've seen a lot over the past 10 years where they've never gone into a scrum and they've never been in a fight and all this different stuff. Like it's just that part of it concerns. me. And I know it's harsh, but that's how I feel. Alpha dogs. Yes. No alpha dogs. And that's why I was desperate for them to get Marchand last summer.

Because Marchand, I want Cowan to learn from Marchand. He would have dragged a lot of people in. I want nyes to learn from Marchand. Matthews and Willie, they're not dragging anybody into anything. Unless it's a skills competition, which they win a lot of nights. So to answer your question, Mira, I do think that McKenna has the ability to show a little bit of grit and like he's not going to fight anybody he's not going to hit anybody but at least he's got a little soft yeah but he's got a bit of squirrel to him i got to tell you

i i am concerned about the mckenna pick i i i've said it on the show i still i'm getting to you this guy watched one clip of a world championship boogs is good i got news for you i like books i love books i still do you trust them i trust them big time but why aren't you paying attention to him he's saying pass on mackena i'm allowed to disagree with jason bocala that's allowed it's not just that though it is like all the attributes like i don't i forget what i've said on the show but like i don't love that he's not at the world's right now mckenna like i don't i think he probably doesn't want to hurt his draft stock if i had to guess like i don't know that but i think it's because he's not hanging around sid crosbie he's doing the he's doing the the draft like the combine

yeah go to the world i just you know like was he invited did they want him yeah and there's a thing that like you know celebrini was er crosbie was so impressed with Sellebrini the first time he saw him a year ago. They invited him to train with them out east. Like, you just, you want to be around these things? I just feel, I don't know, that's Danberg. It's not a bad player. I know it's, I want to say it's just McKenna,

but it's not that easy. It is for me. Yeah, I know. It is for me. All right. Leaf fans saw him 12 minutes, dash two today. They're like, oh, boy, I don't know. I better take them.

All right, let's get to, you get your, they rip the bandaid off and get to your martyr. worse than trashing a minor one, please. Rip the Band-Aid off, Sammy. Let's go to Mike and Whitby. I just wanted to say that that Martyr goal last night hit deep, deep inside. And I honestly don't even know what to say about it.

It was painful. Absolutely. Agony just watching that goal. Wow. That's a tough one. Wow. I also want to say when we trade Matthews and Neelander

like Kipper wants to, how many times are we going to have to watch them score playoff goals like that and feel deep, deep pain and sadness? Think about it, boys.

It's not remotely hard I think we might need to just hang on to these guys Just a little longer To avoid The pain Okay should we add We also got a call in from Sammy

Parts unknown Derek you have that one What the hell is this Well you are excusing him You're saying it's old M I'm saying it's just it's a load of crap That people are finding Reasons why he was great here Not here

He was great here It was great here. Yeah, great until it was the biggest games, and it was baggles. Bagels. And I'm not going to get like, what's going on here? I asked for your clip of your nightmare. Habs on the way of the conference final. Freddie Anderson best going to the playoffs.

And now the reality is like, we are staring down the barrel of a Mitch Martin Kahn-Smith. That is a real conversation. Like, if they didn't get the first overall pick, I'm not showing up. What do you want me to do with that? Last night, he may have won the cons might. Yeah, until they had to play a real team. That was a lot of people. That was an all-time tough one, for sure.

The, who was the caller there? I don't know. That was pain. Listen, I don't know. I got nothing. What do you want me to say? How good was this goal? It was nice.

It was nice. It was nice. It was nice. It is kind of painful, though, Sammy. Sure. It's okay. Listen, I don't. It's all right.

And so the caller says basically, don't trade Matthews because I'm scared he's going to do what Mitch is doing. And it's just, it just doesn't work that way, guys. It's, if Mitch stayed here, could have been another first round out the door for many different reasons.

And it just, it needed a change. It needed, somebody needed a new job. Mitch needed a new job. You needed a new spot. Austin could be in that same place too. Yeah. That he can go somewhere else and it could look like Mitch Marner. But that's okay.

It's fine because it was never going to happen here. Do you understand what I'm saying? Yeah, I get the idea. Mitch has a better team in Vegas. Okay, it's built better. He's getting saves at the opportune time. That never happened for any of them here. Okay, they always got outgolead,

but no one wants to go there because they were too busy blaming Mitch. that's it I have no interest in having this conversation again I mean you brought up a conversation from Monday I want to just listen to that you know

like if you want to just do that just do that no because it's still a hot button topic I can yell and say it's okay it's just okay just go let Austin go

okay let him go and let him go somewhere else where he doesn't have to be the number one guy either maybe he's better being a malk into a Crosby than trying to be Crosby

and win a Stanley Cup. He doesn't have the same leadership qualities. Right. And to the caller, it's okay if he goes there and has success. Don't let it kill you. Murder's defense lawyer. Don't let it kill you.

Don't let it kill you like it's killing Sammy. I do think that, you know, just letting 29-year-old Hall of Famers go because we're not sure why exactly because it doesn't like. No, we're sure. Yeah. He's not a captain. And he's not a leader. And Sammy doesn't want him.

taking McKenna under his wing. That's why you get rid of him, Sammy. Not because you're scared he's going to go score 69 goals and put him on highlight reels. That's why. I don't know. I don't know. Like I just, I still don't.

You want to keep him. Well, I'd like to see. I'd like to see him. Well, listen, you just listed off all the extenuating circumstances that came with the previous attempts with getting goalie and going up against bad teams or good teams. It doesn't happen every year. I'd like to see him healthy next year.

It's happened 10 years pretty much in a row. I'm aware of what's happened. But I mean, let's see him healthy next year. Let's see him with the new coach. Let's see with new bodies in. What's that like tripling, quadrupling? What are we at now? Well, don't you want good players?

Like, I don't know. I want leaders. I want guys who lead men. I want guys that Sammy can go, I want that guy beside McKenna. I want him to lead him. So for you, this isn't about Mitch and what, because he wasn't a leader here and couldn't do it.

So you're saying same idea. These guys got to go where they can be second. I just think that they're going to now go back to Matthews and Nealander and try to win with them again, being the alpha dogs, which they are not. Yeah. I mean, hey, it hasn't. It's impossible to say they have been. I've been here too.

It hasn't worked out for these guys. But I am fascinated to see, you know, what it looks like with one more crack at it. You can still trade Matthews in November for December. for less. I don't think anyone's, it's going to be much different now than... Two years to one year is a big difference. Well, it's not one year.

It's two playoff runs to two playoff runs. That's what people care about. And that's, if you want to waste one this year and trade them next summer. Trade them in November. If it's not working December or whatever, let's see how it looked. All right. I just asked for the clip there, Samo,

the Khan Smith. I think he won it last night. It's very well could be. I don't know. It's okay. Sammy. It's okay. Hey, Owen Sound Attack. They got new ownership. They're ready, buddy. Yeah. We'll see. All right, Sammy. We got Doug McLean. He's not allowed to mention Mitch Martner's name. I'm sure that'll go well.

We go national next on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. Doug McLean, off the rails Friday. It continues.